Season 8 Episode 10: Screw Worms, Selfish Cats, and Dr. Laci Brock on Space Art!

A parasite that lays eggs in wounds and eats living tissue sounds like something from a horror movie, but it is real and it is making headlines right now. We break down the New World screw worm outbreak in Texas, what it does to animals, and why ranchers and veterinarians treat it as an urgent livestock health emergency. We also talk through the bigger picture: how infestations spread through everyday cuts and bites, why wildlife can make control harder, and how trade disruptions can turn a regional outbreak into a North American economic shockwave.

Then we switch gears to pet science with a deceptively simple animal behavior study that asks a great question: will your pet help you without being asked? Researchers hid a boring object like a dish sponge, offered zero rewards, and watched what happened when a familiar human “struggled” to find it. Dogs often step in like toddlers, pointing out the location or retrieving it, while cats tend to watch closely and decide it is not their problem unless there is something in it for them. We unpack what that says about prosocial behavior, domestication, and why “helping” is not the same thing as intelligence.

Our guest is Dr. Laci Brock of Stellar Arts, an astrophysicist who turned her science communication skills into a full-time space art business. Lacey shares how she builds multispectral paintings using real telescope imagery across wavelengths (think Hubble plus James Webb Space Telescope), what it takes to produce high-quality limited edition fine art prints, and how viral moments like “Meteor Geese” and her Artemis mini paintings sparked real “moon joy” online. We also get candid about generative AI, artist consent, copyright, and why the conversation is bigger than just aesthetics.

Dr. Brock's Art Page!

Our Links!

Transcript

Welcome And Farm Rain Update

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hello, science enthusiasts. I'm Jason Zakowski.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

And I'm Chris Zakowski.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

We're the pet parents of Bunsen, Beaker, Bernoulli, and Ginger.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

The science animals on social media. If you love science and you love pets, you've come to the right spot.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

So put on your safety glasses.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

And hold on to your tail.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

This is the Science Podcast. Hi everybody, welcome back to the Science Podcast. We hope you're happy and healthy out there. This is episode 10 of season eight. We didn't wash away this week, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

No, even with the great deluge. That wasn't really a deluge, but I keep calling it that. It was just rainy days for several days in a row, and we've received a remarkable amount of rain, and we're okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

It's definitely greened up everything around the farm. We were definitely in a drought before this happened. And you've been saying the farmers are calling it a million-dollar rain.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Because it really saved the crops. We've been very dry, and the rain was very much needed.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

All right, let's see what we're doing on the show this week. In Science News, we're going to talk about the very spooky screw worm that is in Texas right now and is affecting that state big time. But also, there's been some news from Canada about it. So get your heebie jeebies ready because it's gross. And then in pet science, we've got a really fun experiment that came out not too long ago, which basically pit cats and dogs against each other for their ability to help humans. I think I summed that up pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I think so too. I think it's pretty funny what the results were.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Our guest and ask an expert is Dr. Lacey Brock from Stellar Arts. Now, we had Dr. Brock on years ago, and she was a science communicator doing videos on TikTok and Instagram. She's an astrophysicist, and she was making the transition into becoming a full-time artist because she's seriously talented at drawing the cosmos. And since then, her social media accounts have exploded because her art is so captivating. So we're going to talk to her about her new venture being an artist. All right, let's get on with the show. There's no time lake.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Science time.

What Screw Worms Do To Animals

SPEAKER_03 2:41

This week in Science News, let's talk about the screw worm. Do you like worms, Chris? Are they low on your list of things that are enjoyable on this planet?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Okay. Worms are low, but parasites are even lower.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

The screw worm is making headlines because of an outbreak in Texas. And I believe the governor in Texas has called for a state of emergency. So it's a big deal. And I've never heard of the screw worm before, but it's disgusting. Have you heard of this before, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I have not. I had not. Because if there's anything in the news or anything on TV that has to do with parasites, I pretty much say no, thank you and watch cute dog videos instead.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

So this is a pretty gross parasite. So just if you don't want to listen to this, you could like fast forward about 10 minutes and get to the cats versus dog study, but because it is kind of gross. It's a larval stage of a certain type of fly that lays its eggs in open wounds and the belly buttons or navels of newborn animals, or any body opening like the nose or the mouth or the ears. And when the eggs hatch, the larva burrow into the tissue and eat it. So unlike fly maggots, which break down dead tissue and don't generally go after anything that's healthy, the screw worm larvae are disgusting. They attack healthy living flesh and they enlarge wounds and they will kill animals if it's not treated quickly. The animals that it affects are your farm animals, cattle, sheep, goats, horse, deer, and even pets, and occasionally humans with untreated wounds. Blah. Why is this such a big deal? Why is it so devastating?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Because it spreads through normal livestock operations. If you live on a farm or you live on a ranch, you know that your animals are going to get minor cuts or tick bites, any kind of little wound. And those are the ideal sites for screw worm flies to lay their eggs. And a single infestation can produce hundreds of larvae. So that's devastating because it will spread through the livestock and it can overwhelm the livestock producers. So if the parasite becomes established, infested animals do require additional treatment and isolation from others. Their death losses will rise. They have to call the vet, and the vets will come out, and those costs will increase dramatically. And animal movement, like we're going to talk about a little bit later, with restrictions due to this parasite, can disrupt trade. Like you said, it's not only localized to ranch animals, wildlife can spread it. So deer and other wild mammals that have a larger area that they roam, they can carry those infestations across those areas, making eradication much more difficult than simply controlling your cattle.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

The economic impact of this could be huge. Alberta has a lot in common with Texas, actually. So for any of the Americans listening or people just around the world, Alberta is an oil-producing province. So we produce tons of oil and gas, just like Texas. And we're also a ranching cattle province. I'm pretty sure Alberta produces the most cattle beef by far compared to the other provinces in Canada. A big outbreak could cost billions of dollars in Texas. And some estimates by sit by officials that are in the know put the potential damages around $1.8 billion just in Texas. And that's not the butterfly effect of this across North America and into Mexico.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So, Jason, why is everybody talking about Texas specifically?

SPEAKER_03 6:58

So the United States did a really good job. They eradicated the new world screw worm in 1966

Sterile Flies And Texas Response

SPEAKER_03 7:06

through what a really kind of cool way. It's called a sterile insect program. We'll I'm going to talk about that in a second. And since then, the pirate parasites have been kept south of the US border. But there was a big outbreak that's been moving north through Central America and Mexico since 2023, and it reached the border. And this month, June 3rd, the USDA confirmed the first Texas case in decades, and then other cases were confirmed shortly after. Like Texas has responded with everything that you would almost do in a pandemic: quarantine zones, limiting animal control, surveillance and trapping, and then these sterile male flies. So I think I'm just going to talk real quick about that because it's I didn't know this was a thing. But this is considered one of the most successful pest control programs ever developed. Scientists will breed millions of male screw worm flies, so on purpose, and then artificially sterilize them and release them into the wild. So I as when I was reading that, I'm like, that's insane. Why would they release millions of more of these flies if they're a problem? But here's the catch the females that are out there will mate only a single time, and if they mate with a sterile male, they'll not they're not going to produce any offspring and then both quickly die after mating. And this doesn't cause anything right off the bat, but over time the population collapses. So the idea is to flood the zone with all of these sterile males and basically screw over the females so they can't make bi-bis. And right now the USDA is releasing a hundred million sterile insects a week in Mexico and along the border. Isn't that insane? A hundred million insects, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

A week. Yeah. That's that's probably why it's so effective over time.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Now our country is acting too, hey?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yes, Canada is watching very closely. We are treating the Texas detections as a serious biosecurity threat. Our Canadian Food Inspection Agency announced temporary restrictions on livestock imports from Texas after those confirmed screw screw worm detections. And the restrictions apply to livestock, including horses that originated in or were present in Texas within the previous 21 days before entering Canada. And our reasoning is straightforward. We currently do not have the New World screw worm. And prevention is worth an ounce of cure, I think. Preventing these introductions is far easier and cheaper than eradication after the establishment of these parasites. And our Canadian cattle industry is heavily integrated with North American livestock trade. So a foothold in Canada could definitely have major economic consequences. So they're the Canadian authorities are monitoring the situation very closely and will adjust as conditions or things evolve.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yeah, people who maybe aren't in a ranching province or state don't know the interconnection between the Americans and Canada. We were lucky enough to go to Hawaii, and in on Kona, we went to this really fun like ranch dinner on top of one of their like a mountain. I guess you could call it a mountain.

Canada Restrictions And Trade Ripples

SPEAKER_03 10:50

I really liked it because the stargazing was amazing. But when I was talking to the folks that own the ranch, they send their cows on this ranch to Canada by plane. And they do that so the cows get all fattened up. So they ship these Hawaiian cows where there's not a lot of grazing land to the vast grazing lands of Alberta to so they can get them ready for turning into beef. Anyways, that's just an interesting aside I thought not a lot of people would know about. Now, for the general public, and this includes people in Texas even, the risk is low. The huge concern though is agricultural. For the people that have all of these farm animals and their producers, that's where the losses will be, and the loss of the animals and your inability to sell them, and then the cross-border livestock trade could collapse. The parasite doesn't make beef unsafe to eat, and it does not spread person to person. It's just the animal health and livestock losses. So very sad for the cows, but doesn't seem to be at all dangerous to us as people. So that's good.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

I don't eat meat, Jay, but if I saw meat with I don't know, a parasite on it, I think I would throw out.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

There's no amount of cooking that would make me want to eat that either. All right, so if you live in Texas, we're thinking of you this week in

Cats Versus Dogs Helping Test

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Pet Science. Let's talk about cats and dogs and this really fun study from animal behavior, which pitted them against each other in helping humans. This is such a fun study, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

I know. I love the dog, I love the study's title. It's dogs' behavior is more similar to that of children than to that of cats in a pro-social problem situation. So the goal actually was to find out can animals help humans without being asked? And so those researchers wanted to investigate pro-social behavior, which is actions intended to benefit someone without getting that obvious reward. So helping others without helping yourself or getting a kickback. And what they found previously is that human toddlers are known to show this kind of helping behavior naturally. They want to help. I can help. I think back to our toddlers, our kids who are no longer toddlers, but they were very helpful, wanting to clean up and do dishes and all that kind of stuff. So it's super fun working with toddlers or having toddlers. But in terms of the study, the question was whether companion animals living closely with humans showed the same tendency, same pro-social behavior, helping others without getting a reward. So to test this, the researchers compared children aged 16 to 24 months. They compared untrained pet dogs and pet cats. But most importantly, the researchers weren't actually testing intelligence or obedience. They were testing whether the subjects would spontaneously choose to help when they saw a familiar human struggling with a problem.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Okay. So the experiment took place in the subjects' homes to keep the environments familiar, and a parent or pet owner was present. The experimenter hid an object while the child, dog, or cat watched. So they the animal or the little kid saw where the object went. Then the owner entered and started looking for the object. The owner was like acting confused, searching visibly, but did not ask for help and did not point towards the object. And they offered zero reward for anybody stepping in to help. So it was truly altruistic if the dog or the cat or the toddler stepped in to help. And the hidden object was really dumb. It was a dishwashing sponge. It was like one of those scrub daddies. So the sponge was pro chosen was chosen because dogs don't care about sponges, cats don't care about sponges, and it wasn't a toy. And probably the toddlers also didn't care too much about the sponges. But maybe a little bit more than the dogs. But there was no inherent value whatsoever to the animals. So the whole point of it was to rule out the fact that it could be something else if they chose, where the animals was interacting with the object because they wanted it themselves. They didn't actually care to help the human, they just selfishly wanted it themselves.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

I think Bernoulli would want the sponge.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Yeah, he would. He would want any if you hit anything, he'd want it. Yeah. Ooh, what's over there?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

What's that?

SPEAKER_03 15:38

All right. So, Chris, what happened with the dogs?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

What the researchers measured was signs of attention. So, did the animal watch the owner searching? Did it pay attention to the hidden object? And they also looked for signs of possible helping. So, what the animal could do was look back and forth between the owner and the object. They could have approached the object's location, they could have actually

Dogs Step In Without Rewards

SPEAKER_00 16:05

indicated where the object was, or they could have retrieved the object and brought it back to the owner. So the last two behaviors, indicating where the object was and bringing it back, retrieving it, were considered the strongest evidence of helping. And so what happened with the dogs?

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Well, what happened with the dogs?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, so funny. The dogs actually behaved remarkably like toddlers. More than 75% of the dogs indicated the object's location, approached it, or retrieved it for the owner. And they did this without training, without treats, without praise, and without being asked. So researchers interpreted that as evidence that many dogs were motivated to help the human solve the problem. And it matters because the dog didn't want the object. The object, the sponge, had no value to the dog and there was no immediate reward, but the dog still got involved. So that makes the behavior look less like self-interest and more like a genuine response to a human's apparent need when they're frantically looking for the object that they don't know where it's been hidden. So toddlers did something very similar. They showed pointing towards the object or approaching it or retrieving it. And that actually matched earlier developmental psychology findings that show that toddlers often help adults before they fully understand the social rules and procedure for helping people, and they didn't receive reward for doing so. So it was consistent with previous research. But the the funny part is what happened with the cats.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah, go ahead. What happened with the cats?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

The cats paid attention.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

So yeah, they're curious.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, they were like sitting there looking, they were not ignoring the situation, they watched the owner, they watched the hidden object, their level of attention was similar to that of dogs and children. So the result was not simply that cats failed to notice what was happening, they were noticing, but they rarely helped. Okay. Compared with dogs and toddlers, few cats approach the object, very few indicated its location, and none consistently retrieved the sponge. So cats appear to understand something was happening, but generally chose not to intervene.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

They're just like, I know where it is, but this is a you problem, not a this is an issue, not an ish me.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Exactly. So the researchers ran a very important follow-up. Instead of a sponge, they hit a favorite toy, a favorite treat, or something that

Cats Notice Then Opt Out

SPEAKER_00 18:55

the animal personally valued. And suddenly the cats became much more engaged. They approached the hidden item, they indicated its location, and their particip, but their participation rose to levels much closer to that of the dogs and the children. So that showed that cats were perfectly capable of understanding and participating in the task when they had something to gain.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Such a true conclusion for cats. If they have something to gain out of it, they're gonna help you. This gets to the natural and artificial selection of both of them. Like dogs for thousands of years were bred. Still today, they're bred and selected for cooperation, reading our signals, and working alongside us in herding, guarding, hunting, retrieving, therapy work, service work. Dogs are there to help. And we've bred them for thousands and thousands of years to do that. Cats did something totally different. Their ancestors and the Fertile Crescent were solitary hunters. Very few cats throughout history have been extensively bred for cooperation. They've been bred to look like things, like their coat colors or coat length, but they have been like, oh, that's a very helpful cat. We'll breed the helpful cats. And they domesticated themselves. They saw humans as an easy mark for food and then integrated themselves into our society for uh a greater chance of survival. Like it doesn't take a genius to realize cats are probably less inclined to respond to our problems unless the situation aligns with their own interests. Anyways.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

The study does not show that dogs are smarter than cats, or dogs love humans more than cats, or it doesn't show that cats are

Domestication Explains The Difference

SPEAKER_00 21:00

incapable of empathy. And it also doesn't show that cats don't form strong bonds with their owners. Instead, it does suggest that in this specific situation, seeing a familiar human searching for a lost object, dogs were much more likely than cats to take action without being asked.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

So I guess the conclusion of the study is that when a human appears to be in need, dogs will probably respond with, How can I help? While cats will probably respond with, I see a problem, and is there any reason I should get involved? It's like they're the Seinfeld of the pet petland, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

They could help, but they just choose not to.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

All right, that's pet science for this week.

Meet Dr. Lacey Brock Of Stellar Arts

SPEAKER_03 21:48

It's time for Ask an Expert, and today we have a former guest. It's Dr. Lacey Brock, astrophysicist, but now working with art. How are you doing today, Doctor?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

I am doing great. Thank you so much for having me back.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah, it was super fun chatting with you years ago. I think it's been a couple years.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

So long. Yeah. Time is just, I don't even know what year it is sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

And it's exciting. You full you fully transferred into like doing art full time because I remember when we were talking, that was like you were moving towards that from science.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah. I did not expect to end up as a full-time artist, but the way that life worked out, it just seemed like what I needed to do at the time.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Yeah. I was wondering just real quick before the switch, you do have some pretty serious training in science. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah. So my entire background is in science. So I did undergrad in physics, and then I eventually went on to get my PhD in planetary sciences from the University of Arizona, the Lunar and Planetary Lab. Like my specialty was studying clouds in brown dwarf and exoplanet atmospheres. So it's almost like doing two PhDs at once, but I did the planetary science and I supplemented that with a science education component. So I looked at undergraduate students' understanding of time in astronomy.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Like relativity?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

No, oh no, sorry. More like cosmological time. Like how old is the universe and how does that relate to how old our solar system is? And when you get a student who's a non-science major in an undergrad classroom, how are they processing all of these astronomical concepts? And how are they grasping these very large timescales that work in astronomy?

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah, that's bamboozling for anybody. I forget if you remember, my day job, I teach high school science. And one of my favorite classes has a geology elective, and just trying to get the kids to grasp how old the earth is.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, it's very difficult.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah, to for all the rocks to form, and that humans are this teeny tiny blip in geological time, which is nothing compared to cosmological time.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

That's exactly what I looked at. It was really interesting because the students would group the formation of the universe and the formation of our solar system as they group them together. It was the same thing. The Big Bang was also when Earth formed. So there was nine billion years missing. And it was really interesting to look at that. There's a lot of research in deep time in geology. And so I essentially tried to group the geological time studies with astronomy and tried to look at the bigger picture and how can we improve that in undergraduate classrooms. So I did all that, and I was studying clouds and brown dwarf atmospheres. Yeah, I was very busy. And I was gonna say I was like, oh yeah, I'll just do two PhDs. Yeah, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

But you got through it, you got your doctorate, and then people can find listen to our previous chat where we got into all of that about the clouds on those brown doors. Fascinating, by the way. Super cool. So yeah, and but you did you made this transition into art. And I'd love to, I think that's where I'd love to this conversation to go more is what you're doing now with art. Before before science, were you into art? Did you paint on the side? I forget if I asked you this question.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I I did. I've always been I've always been a scientist and an artist at heart. So I would be outside looking for cool rocks or looking at the clouds and wanting to understand what was going on, and then I would come back inside and I would draw or paint. I made comic books about reptiles.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, such a reptile nerd when I was little. I still love reptiles, but I'm not making reptile comic books anymore. Sorry to disappoint everyone. But yeah, I've been creating art since I was four or five. I remember in

PhD Burnout And Building A New Path

SPEAKER_02 26:40

the summer, my grandma would drop me off at this tiny little ceramics place in Pittsburgh, Indiana, and I would paint ceramic pieces and enter them in the 4-H fair and get blue ribbons. But as I got older and eventually I started college, I was so busy, I just could not paint as much anymore, and so I lost touch with it. But in 2017, when I was a grad student working on my PhD, I was just getting a little like stir crazy or bored sitting at a computer and coding all day. I really wanted to use my hands and just something else. And so I reconnected with my art and I started teaching myself how to paint in different mediums. And then how did I end up as a full-time artist? Without going into all the crazy details, I ended up defending my PhD during the pandemic. So I actually defended from my house all alone in a room. And as we all know, science is very collaborative and involved. You talk about your work, you work with groups of scientists, you present them at conferences. And I was just trapped in a room for two years, sitting and coding, writing my dissertation. And after I defended my PhD, everything just kind of hit me. And I realized I was very burnt out. And I needed to do something other than sit at a desk and code. And my story, my journey is just a roller coaster, very non-traditional student, first generational student. So on top of that, I also worked three jobs during undergrad. And in during my master's, I got in a really bad car accident. It wasn't my fault. Somebody swerved into my lane and hit me head on. And I it ended up shattering my right foot, but I couldn't walk for six months, and I had to have two surgeries. And something very sad too. We lost two very good scientists in the field of planetary science in the year 2020, Nadine Barlow and Jay Malosh. They were my advisors. Jay was my undergrad advisor, and Nadine was my master's advisor. So all this stuff just kind of landed on me and hit me like a just a wave. And I realized I needed a break from academia. And so I looked around and I did apply to some positions that combined scientific research and education, but the positions that combined scientific research, education, and art are very rare or just don't exist. So I had to start my own business so I could combine science and art in my own way.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

And like for people that maybe don't follow you, you've grown since we last talked on social media. You have large social media accounts with many of your pieces of art going viral. So congrats on that. That doesn't happen without a lot of hard work. So we do get to see your stuff. And she's more on threads. I think I see you posting on threads not as much as she does.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Oh, yeah, I'm always yapping on threads. It's fun there. Uh yeah, I it also worked out very well for me. I didn't just, hey, I sell art now, buy my art. I was posting on social media during grad school, making science communication videos, and I would sprinkle my art into those videos.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

But it wasn't the focus of my account. And so after posting these science videos for three years, I switched the style of my video. So instead of just sitting there staring at the camera, which by the way, I was never comfortable with that. I have to like, it took so many takes for me to record a video. I would forget my name. I would forget everything that I did in my PhD. I would just feel very uncomfortable staring into the camera. So it was nice. I got to move away from the sort of talking head pictures in the background video to painting. I would record the process of making a painting and I would do a voiceover talking about the science behind the painting. And so I was very lucky that I had built a small social media following when I switched to my art business because I didn't know if anyone was going to buy my art. I don't know. Uh it was actually a scary decision because it could have totally backfired. But hey, all those years of hard work, it worked out. And then now I've just been growing my accounts as a scientist and an artist. And I'm very grateful for everyone who follows me and drops a like, leaves a comment. I I really appreciate it. And I'm just

Meteor Geese And The Power Of Viral Art

SPEAKER_02 31:40

so happy that I can now communicate science through art.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

It's fantastic. I think one of the ones I was wanting to chat with you about was you paint little squares and then of course big pictures, and we'll maybe talk to that little later. But one of your little the smaller squares was of a was it a goose looking at a shooting star?

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Oh my yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

That was mega viral, like that was everywhere, and then I think people were stealing it.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Oh my gosh. Uh yeah. Yeah, Meteor Geese. That was really fun. That was when Twitter was not crap. It was yeah, Meteor Geese was really fun because it was a real event. A Twitch streamer, it's a farm in Portugal called One Portuguese Farm. They had their cameras on at night, and a fireball meteor went overhead, and the geese stopped and looked up at it.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

And all of these artists started to paint it. Yeah. And Stellar Arts is named after my love of birds, Stellar's J and Space, Stellar, even though it's spelled differently. So Space Plus Birds, I had to paint that. And that I think that was the first time my art went viral. Everyone's meteor geese was going viral too, but so many people saw it. And I think eventually when I made prints, I ended up selling more prints of that than I did of anything else.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

It was cute and it was topical and like it's an animal interacting with the universe. We don't think of animals as but like they I remember seeing the live video, like they did. They're like, whoa, what's that? They looked up at it and they're like, Wow, that's cool. Yeah. Or whatever they were thinking. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, it was adorable. I really love it. And I actually sent a little print of it to the person who took the video in Portugal. I sent them a free print of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Aw.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Because their video is the reason why all these artists were able to paint this event, and a lot of people got to learn about a fireball. It can be like bright blue or bright yellow. And what's funny is the owner, the person who bought the original, the little tiny painting of meteor geese, is Andrew McCarthy, my friend, but he's a very well-known astrophotographer, famous Astro photographer. He snagged the original before anyone else did.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Did you? I don't know if this is an awkward question, but when you saw that, did you just feel something as an artist? I need to get this, it's such a moment in time I want to capture it, or did you get swept up with other artists as well doing it too?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

I think it was there. I am a scientist who went rogue and started an art business. So sometimes I think about and I approach things from a very scientific, logical perspective. It's not so much driven by emotions. And I think this was a really good experience for me because I was like, oh my gosh, I love this because, like you said, it's an animal interacting with the universe. And I loved birds, and it yeah, it just gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling. And I thought, I would like to paint that. And I painted mine, and other artists were doing it too, which told me, oh, it's like an art movement. Everyone can do this. So I thought, okay, I'm allowed to do this. And after I painted my meteor geese, I saw all these other artists paint their versions, and some of them I liked a lot more. I was like, oh, I didn't realize I could do this. I tried to paint it exactly like I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Instead of, oh, I can add extra stars here. So that's been something that I honed and grown, that more emotional artist side of me. I don't even know how to describe it, but it's like I don't just try to copy things. I try to put like some of my myself into the painting and sort of the, I don't know, the vibes, the emotions. So I've learned that for the past few years since switching to full-time art. I can it doesn't always have to be like an exact copy or it must be very scientific and only have this. I can add like some flourishes or something. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 36:04

It does, yeah. Like you're I've I definitely saw some that were embellishing quite a bit, like there were geese watching it from outer space, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

I don't think that yeah, not that I know of.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Yeah, not that we know of, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah, it's really nice to be able to grow and realize that I can do uh very science-y art, but also more whimsical art.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Yeah, that's great. Because the world needs both beauty and science, but also whimsy.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

Yeah, whimsy is a huge thing that I think the world needs more of. Definitely speaking of okay, and following your account, you do, as you said, like these time lapses of point paint painting, like these huge pictures or large paintings of galaxies or stars or planets. Do you go from memory or do you have a photo? I just want I have no idea what your process is there. I've watched like dozens of them.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Yeah, it's a very this is okay.

How Multispectral Space Paintings Are Built

SPEAKER_02 37:11

My my thing is what I call multi-spectral paintings, and those are very scientific and planned out months in advance. So I don't work from memory, I always have a reference. I'm very visual, and so I like to see what I'm doing, and so I spend a lot of time, weeks, sometimes a month, um, creating an image that I'll use as my reference. And for my multi-spectral paintings, I combine telescope images in different wavelengths of light. So, an example is maybe I take a visible light image from Hubble and I combined it, I combine it with an infrared image from JWST. So it's the pillars of creation in visible light and infrared light. And I basically stack them on top of each other. Sometimes it's really easy because the field of view is the same. Sometimes it's different. So there may only be certain parts of the nebula. So if the images don't overlap perfectly, I have to basically paint, digitally paint what this would look like if I was JWST. So I have to turn myself into a telescope and extend the image. So it's not always as easy as oh, I'll just stack these on top of each other. So I combine, I get the images to where they perfectly align and they're in, say, two different wavelengths, visible and infrared. And then I start experimenting with geometric shapes. What do I want the shapes to look like? And a lot of that is just this is there is no science behind why I pick a triangle or a circle or a square. I just do what I think looks interesting and lets you experience the nebula or the planet in a fun way. I don't know, just matches the vibes. And then I just erase different spots and I play around with the telescope data a lot until I settle on something that I really like. And once I have my reference made, I get to work on the canvas and I usually project, I just do a quick little outline, like, all right, the squiggles here, and then I I sketch it out on the canvas, and then I get to work painting. And the actual paintings take a very long time because I'm working in oils and I have to use tape for my shapes. So I have to wait for it to dry before I can move the tape and whatnot. But the big thing that people never know about these paintings, I have to replace the tape every painting session. I can't just leave the tape on and come back tomorrow and work on it because there's this weird chemical reaction that happens with oil paint and tape and solvent, and it leaves like a sticky matte residue on the canvas. So I have to pull the tape off and the next day put the tape back on.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Oh, if the tape's on there too long, it causes that reaction.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Yeah, it seems to happen if, say, you put the tape down and you're painting on one side of it. If you get paint on top of the tape, that's what really exacerbates the issue.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

I the first time my first painting, my first multi-spectral painting is what convinced me to leave academia. And I left the tape on for three weeks, and when I finally pulled it off, I could not get my paint to stick on the canvas where the tape was. It was like flaking off. It was the weirdest thing. And so I learned the hard way. And I realized, okay, I've gonna have to take this tape off to make sure that what I'm trying to do works out. So a lot of work goes into planning, executing, and even in the end, I try to place, I usually do stars last. I try to place the stars as accurately as possible. Since I'm doing such a science-based painting, it doesn't sit right with me to flick them on. So I try to place them as accurately as possible. And I've counted them before just for fun. And when I did the pillars of creation in infrared, it was 7,695 stars.

unknown 41:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

That's intense. That's intense that you also counted it.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

I know. I had two dry erase boards, and I would paint some stars and do a tally, and at the end I counted and was like, oh no, unhinged.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

And as you do, I don't know the process. Maybe you could tell us like people can buy your art.

Limited Prints And Making Art Accessible

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Is that on your stellar arts website or elsewhere?

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Yeah, I sell all of my art. What I do after I finish a painting, I have them professionally photographed or scanned. And I order test prints, and then I make really high quality fine art prints of my paintings, but they're limited edition. So I don't do, I don't like, I don't mass produce my art. That doesn't sit right with me. So I'll do limited releases, and I really like to create something and then move on to experiment or to do something differently. So I only have art on my website every one to two months, and my the complex oil paintings I was just talking about, those are always limited edition. And I'm sure I'll talk to you more about in a little bit, but I've been painting a bunch of mini Artemis paintings. So when I do little mini prints, I don't make those limited edition or anything, but yeah, I always try to do prints of my paintings just to make my art more accessible since I'm only one person and I can only paint so fast. Yeah, yeah, those multi-spectral paintings take me a couple months usually.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Wow. Yeah, I'm just on your website right now, and there's one called Pinball.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Oh yeah. That's very cute. Yeah, that's not a nebula or a planet, but I try to do I love doing space-themed art. And so I've been experimenting with different kinds of space art lately. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

And it's like uh old timey, like one of those little games where you'd pull the spring back and it would fly up and then it would ping pong down through.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Like a little 70s retro.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Handheld game.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

I had one of those when I've had a bunch of those when I was a kid. I'm sure older folk maybe might remember these. They're n it's not like a pin stand-up pinball game you put Machika coins into. It's like a little like a five dollar game that you got from Toys R Us or something like that that was cheap. And then you'd fling the little spring and it would shoot the ball up, and there's little hoops or little things little usually a little silvered ball would fall into. As soon as I saw it, I knew exactly what it was. It's very cute.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Oh, awesome. Yeah. It was no, it just reminded me of being a kid and playing games with my dad, and I remembered I I had one or we had one somewhere, and this one that I found as reference had spaceships in the background, and so I thought, oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Yeah. Now, so of course, like we the big paintings about stars and the nebulas, and that takes a long time. But I do know on like on because we follow you on social media, some stuff you whip up real quick and it's very timely. I don't know how many hours straight you must have been working when Artemis Artemis 2 was making its way towards the moon, but it was very impressive. And you had the like a little smaller painting, I swear, like every day or two or three a day, maybe, about some big thing that came out from that mission. I would love to hear anything you'd like to talk about with that.

Artemis Minis And Painting Moon Joy

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Oh my goodness. Everyone kept saying, Wow, Lacey, you're painting these really fast. And by the fourth time, I was like, guys, I'm not doing anything else. I am literally working all day and all night painting these mini paintings on the couch. I was locked in. I was just, I think, okay, because Project Hail Mary came out maybe a week or two before Artemis launched. Yeah. So I yeah, exited the theater, and I was telling my husband, I was like, I have to paint immediately. It was like, like you were asking me earlier with the meteor geese. Did you get swept away or whatever? It was that moment where I was like, I have to paint this scene from the movie right now. So I went home and I set up my painting stuff on a Sunday and just started painting it. And then I just started working on these four by four inch 10 by 10 centimeter mini paintings, and I do those in acrylic. And those are, I don't know, for some I have a nice art room, like my little bedroom converted into an art studio. But for some reason, I like to paint my acrylic paintings hunched over on my couch watching TV.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

So that didn't help. But I was painting all of these little Artemis or all of the Project Hail Mary minis, and then Artemis launched. And of course, we all had that live stream open the entire time, which was just amazing. And so I I had all these oil paintings I was working on. I had my whole year planned out, which is I'm very proud of myself as somebody with ADHD. I was like, all right, we'll do I'll paint this and then I'll release this print. And I wanted to try to release something every month this year, and nope, no more plans. I am painting Artemis. So I sat on my couch is also sinking, like the spring is just like on the floor. So I'm sitting on this crappy couch, it's flaking off everywhere. Like there are pieces like landing in my paintings. I was like, shoo! And I'm sitting there and I'm just painting all day, like all night, and that's all I'm doing. I'm forgetting to eat. So I I was trying to get one done every day, but they the little ones actually take me. I they can take me a while, not months, but like they could, I don't know. I don't keep track, but probably some of them could take 12 hours. So yeah, I'm just sitting there painting now. I'm painting Artemis minis, and then uh I would be oh okay, this is great. I'm painting this, I'm almost done. And then another beautiful image would get released. And I was like, oh no, please stop. I can't paint this fast.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

There were so many just incredible shots from Artemis 2. I really feel like I don't know if you like you are somebody that was taking the that and whipping your own emotion into it, and people were definitely responding on social media with everyone that you posted, but I just felt like it was a such a good a feel-good thing that brought the world together. Like we were many people were all rooting for this mission together, and we these astronauts were wonderful people and such an achievement.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

So I agree. It I know that I sell my art for a living, but it's funny because when I painted the first Project Hail Mary painting, I wasn't painting it to sell it, I just really wanted it. I really just wanted to get the emotions into the paint or just get all the feelings onto the canvas, and a bunch of people liked it. And the same thing with the Artemis minis, I don't know, I was just painting them because it was an enjoyable collective experience, and I was like experiencing it while painting along, and yeah, I ended up getting a lot of people were excited about the mission, and we were all, like you said, just rooting for it together. And then a bunch of people started asking me for prints, and I was like, Yeah, I'll make prints, but I just I don't know. It's like I didn't plan to stop, I didn't plan to switch up my entire plan for May, but it was great because I think space art can be very niche, and usually it's people who like science and astronomy will like my art. And I think Artemis brought together a lot of people who loved astronomy but got scared away by the math, or loved the moon, but didn't really pay attention to the current space missions and whatnot. And so I think it rekindled a love of space for a lot of people, and I was really happy that I could share my art and spark their moon joy in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Yeah, I love that term that came out from all of it moon joy.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Yeah, that's too cute. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Yeah, so you had the 24-hour stream going in your house around the clock like we did.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Yeah, yeah, it was constantly on in the living room. And when a bigger event was happening, I would tell my husband, and if he was at his computer, I would say, okay, the splashdown is today. Turn on the stream. So he loves space too, but I was like obviously pretty obsessive. Yeah, so he made me food and stuff so I didn't die when I was just sitting there painting. And then, oh my gosh, I had a yeah, I think I worked at least 21 days straight. Maybe 27, I don't know, but I've been taking the last week off giving my poor wrist a break.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

Thank you for taking during your break talking to us.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

I know I should probably start working again tomorrow. But yeah, I I appreciate that if we could chat.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Were all those little paintings scooped up by people, or are they just you're you gotta take some time to get them to your store?

Shipping Quality Prints And Email List

SPEAKER_02 51:46

I haven't sold them yet. When I do the mini paintings, I I like to ship those myself. And so I go to my local business, Tucson People, Centric Photo. I take all my mini paintings to Centric Photo and they scan them for me or photograph the larger ones, get photographed, but they scan them for me and color correct so they look just like the original, and I'll have them print a little test print, and then as long as the color looks good and I'm happy with it, then I have them print all my little mini paintings.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

And so I'll have them on my store in a couple weeks, but yeah, I don't like just sending stuff, I don't want to send it off to a print on demand or something place. I send them all myself and my larger paintings I have printed by those don't ship from me, but I don't use random place. I use print space, which is an award-winning print studio. So I want to make sure anyone who gets my art, I want to make sure I'm happy with it and I see it before it goes out into the world. And so I felt so bad because several people were like, I want one, I want one. And I said, I'm so sorry, you have to wait a month. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Good things come to those who wait.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Yeah, I yeah, I hope people come back. It's always scary because I pay out of pocket for all the mini paintings, and it's always, yeah, I haven't done them in a while, so it's always scary. So I said, Hey, on threads, I said, Space nerds, you're gonna show up for me when these are available, right? Please. But a lot of people joined my email list, which is the perfect, yeah. Yeah, I had a lot of people join my email list, so that's really good. So I think it will be okay, and I'm excited to see the test prints tomorrow. I get to pick them up, I get to see the tests tomorrow. But yeah, it's been great and it was a hectic month, but everything's working out.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Can people join your email list on your website? Is that there's there link there?

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Yeah, it's on my website on my social media. I have like you, you know, when you click on somebody's like link, there's a link that takes you right to my mailing list, but I don't spam people, it's like an early access list. So whenever I open my store, I send out the email and I'm like, go forth, go forth and buy art if you want it. And I give all the people on my list like the first 24 hours to pick what they want, and then I open it up to the public.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Perfect. I just subscribed.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

So oh my gosh, thank you so much. It's hard getting people to leave social media and join your email list, but all my originals since I started my email list, every original has sold out in 30 minutes or less.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Wow, congratulations. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Yeah, it's every time I'm like, my paintings aren't gonna sell, I'm scared. And my husband's it'll be okay. And then I I open the store and poof, an expensive painting's gone right away, and then I'm in shock every single time.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

I don't know if I'll ever get over that.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

I don't know. We have that same anxiety with the Bunsen Beaker Bernoulli brick stuff. We just did a Kickstarter for the moose leg dog chew toy, and I was like, oh no, we have we've got to hit a target or it's not gonna be fulfilled. And the community really came through. The Kickstarter was funded in about 12 hours.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

So oh my gosh, congrats. Isn't it scary? First of all, you have to you have to put yourself out there, your creativity, you just have to put it out there for everyone to stare and judge, and then you have to make sure that you get paid or that you're not making a huge mistake. It's just very scary, I think, to put yourself out there creatively. And yeah, congrats. I applaud anyone that that does that.

Why Generative AI Alarms Artists

SPEAKER_03 55:50

I have uh I have one more question before we ask our standard one, and it might be like it's a controversial one, but I do want your opinion, and that's about generative AI with art.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

How many cuss words am I allowed to say?

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Okay, okay, because this that's how you make your livelihood, right? That's your thing, and it is so easy for anybody now to use generative AI to make quote unquote art. Is do you have any words of wisdom on that front for people?

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Or I have very strong opinions, and I will not say any cuss words, but I think generative AI is horrible, and I think there needs to be laws and policies in place regulating that ASAP. I think for me personally, I'm a traditional painter. So I've noticed a lot of artists who are digital artists being accused of their art being AI when it's not. People are plugging their art into AI without consent. Yes, and it is just absolutely horrendous. So I really feel for the artists who are being accused of using AI when they're not, and customers, other people, they're demanding you need to post videos, you need to do this, you need to do that, or they're asking these programs, is this AI? And those aren't accurate. And so I really feel for the artists, no one has accused me of my work being AI, mostly, I think, because I'm like standing in front of a canvas painting and I'm wearing crappy overalls and I'm doing weird dances, and I'm just a weird nerd. So no one's gonna AI generate someone like me, at least right now. So no one's accusing me of that, but it's just a violation to take somebody's hard work and creativity and just plug it into a machine. And that is my big problem with gen AI, is that it scraped the internet and it stole copyrighted material and makes this hallucin hallucination and spits it out, and somebody's calling that art. But all of the artists who were stolen from did not give their consent. So I think there needs to be serious regulations. Now, if there was a generative a generative AI model that only people who said, yes, you can train on my art, you can use this to train your model. Maybe that's a different story because it's regulated. I'm not anti, there's all okay, well so many opinions about this. The other thing I'll say is people are getting very confused. They're calling all AI gen AI. And that's those are different things. AI has been used in science to detect exoplanets from light curves. Data are large, large data sets, and a human can't sit there and sift through all these light curves. And so you train those with an AI model to try to help pick out is this a planet or is there not a planet in front of this star? AI used for science is great. Gen AI that steals people's intellectual property is not great. And I could go on and on about all the other issues. I guess the last thing I'll say is the other problem with Gen AI is they want to build these data centers and they wanted to build one in Tucson, and it is very hot in Tucson, and water is expensive and scarce. So not only do they steal art, but then they want to make me pay extra electricity bill for the stolen art.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

So that's some mega corporation and billionaire gets more money.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Like it just it's exactly it feels very grim. And I think if you're a traditional painter like me, maybe it's not as bad, but I feel like I've seen so many gen AI business logos, flyers, profile pictures, people were making AI resistance birds. It's just really bad. And I wish that some laws could be in place because it needs to be regulated. So yeah, if I it just feels like a dark time, and I I do worry because I want people to value human creativity and the time and energy that goes into creating and why we create. And the more people that think that they can just outsource that to a descriptive line of text, that's bad for all artists.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

Thanks for talking to us a little bit about Gen AI and how it affects you and folks in the industry, especially those who do like digital art. It's something to think about for sure. We ask all of our guests a closing question, and that's if they could share a pet story. Lacey, I was wondering if you could do that.

Shiba Inu Dingle Poof Emergency

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Okay. I have a Shiba Inu. Are you familiar with their brutal?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

We love them so much. There's a little one at daycare that Bernoulli likes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

Oh, yeah. Shiba's very aloof, very independent, very they're like cats. I have a Shiba Inu. Her name is Tachi Koma, but she goes, but Tachi. It's not her choice. I decided she goes by Tachi. She, oh my gosh. There's so Shiba Inus are so weird. They're weird and quirky. I love my dog, but sometimes I'm just like, uh okay. I think this was two months ago. I let my dog outside. I came inside while she was going out to do her business. It was at night. I came inside and I was doing something in the kitchen, and I heard a Sheba scream. Not the Sheba scream of it was like it sounded bad. Like something happened. And like many years ago, there was a skunk in my yard. It was the week I was defending my PhD. Less than seven days before defending my PhD, my dog got sprayed by a skunk.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

My husband let her inside and then she ran around on the couch. Oh my god, my the entire house smelled like skunk. It was so bad. So I was worried when I heard this noise. Oh my gosh, a skunk has appeared in our yard. Or we live in the desert, a scorpion stung her, a black widow bit her. It sounded like she was in a lot of pain. So I ran outside and I see my dog running along the porch, and she was just like screaming and making this horrific sound, like she was being murdered. And all I could, I was like, oh my gosh, come here, what's wrong? And there was just a circular black thing hanging off her, we call them the butt poofs, the poofy part by the back of the thigh. So there was this black thing hanging off of her. And we also have Palo Verde beetles, like very large black beetles with pinchers. So I thought a Palo Verde beetle got stuck in her butt poofs, and I was like, oh my gosh. And I tried to get up to her, she was like not having it. So I ran inside, I yelled for my husband. I was like, Cody, get out here now. It's an emergency. I'm screaming, Tachi's still screaming. Cody runs outside and he gets her and he pulls it off. And I'm at this point, like, oh my gosh, she got stung, she got bit. We're gonna have to take her to the vet. He goes, it was poop.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

I was like, are you kidding me? I'm like having I'm hyperventilating. I was like, poop. He's like, yeah. He was like a little dingle berry, a dingle poof. And I was like, oh my gosh, this dog. I've never heard her scream like that. So it was a little turd. So yeah, if you want a Shiba Inu, there you go. There's the emotional roller coaster you'll go through. I so now she has another nickname, and we just call her Dingle Poof sometime, but I yeah, that happened two months ago. They're very like particular about their spaces and their fur. So that was like the worst thing ever that could happen to her.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

Bit of a drama queen going on, hey.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

They are very cute though.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Yes, she's adorable, very intelligent, but oh my gosh, a little turd sticks on her butt, poofs, and I guess that was the end of the world. I w I wish I had a recording of the scream. It was horrible. I can't believe it. It was just a turd.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

So the opposite to our golden retriever beaker, she can have everything hanging off of her, and it means nothing. Really? She'll dig a hole and be covered with dirt and weeds and tree leaves and sticks and nothing. She doesn't even care.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

Yeah, that's the total opposite of Tachi. She licks her paws and cleans herself like a cat. They're so weird, but oh my gosh, she's very smart, so pretty. I love her so much. She's a good dog.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Love it. Thanks for sharing your pet story, Lacey.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

No problem. I hope that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Yeah.

Where To Find Stellar Arts Online

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

As we close out, you're on social media. What's your handle for everybody if they want to follow you?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Oh, thank you. It's Stellar S T E L L E R Arts.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Stellar Arts.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

And you are you are on Instagram and TikTok?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:43

Instagram, threads, TikTok, blue sky, YouTube. Oh my gosh. Just all over. So many places.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

We'll also make sure everybody that to the website stellararts.com is in our show notes. And then I think there's social media links there as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

So awesome. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

You betcha. And by the way, everybody, it's really easy to sign up on the email list. It's right on the first page. So make sure you try it. You get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Oh, yeah. No spam. Just space art.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

Dr. Brock, thank you so much for being our guest again. It was really cool to catch up to you after this transition into full-time art. It's kind of cool to hear the other side of it as you were move making that move. So congratulations, and I hope it just continues to grow for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Being like a science and art person, I never know who I fit with. I'm in my own category. So I really appreciate you letting me come on your podcast and talk about science and art today.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

That's

Patreon Shoutouts And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_03 1:07:48

it for this week's show. Thanks for coming back week after week to listen to the Science Podcast. And a shout out to all the top dogs. That's the top tier of our Patreon community, The Pop Pack. You can sign up in our show notes. Alright, Chris, let's hear those names that are part of the Top Dogs.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

Amelia Fetty, Rhee Oda, Carol Hano, Jennifer Challenge, Linnea Janet, Karen Cronister, Vicky Oteiro, Christy Walker, Sarah Brown, Wendy, Diane, Mason and Lou, Helen Chin, Elizabeth Boujois, Marianne McNally, Katherine Jordan, Shelly Smith, Laura Stephenson, Tracy Linebaugh, Anne Uchida, Heather Burbach, Kelly, Tracy Halbert, Ben Rather, Debbie Anderson, Sandy Primer, Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde, Andrew Lynn, Brenda Clark, Brian Hawts, Peggy McKeel, Holly Birch, Kathy Zirker, Susan Wagner, and Liz Button.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Let's go adventure in the