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Waterpeople Podcast
Stories about the aquatic experiences that shape us.
Listen with Lauren L. Hill and Dave Rastovich as they talk story with some of the most adept waterfolk on the planet.
Waterpeople is a gathering place for our global ocean community to dive into the themes of watery lives lived well: ecology, adventure, community, activism, science, egalitarianism, inclusivity, meaningful play, a sense of humour. And, surfing, of course.
Waterpeople Podcast
Hunter Williams: Shapes + Templates
Who's your youngest friend?
We just met one of ours: 11-year-old surfer, shaper and filmmaker Hunter Williams.
This year, Hunter won the grom shorts category at the Noosa International Surf Film Festival with his movie Heirloom.
Informing an impressive depth of knowledge about surfboard building and design, is Hunter’s spectral surfing skill – he talks us through peak moments of tube time and critical hang tens.
We meander with Hunter through the way he gathers inspiration from the living world, his startling phone call with George Greenough, and what it meant to meet Jack Mccoy at the last film screening of Jack's life.
When was the last time you had your mind blown by a young person's refreshing take on life?
Hunter’s infectious wonder and curiosity are a potent reminder of the importance of intergenerational relationships in all of our lives, for all of our lives.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich
Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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Actually, at the moment I'm planning out a film and it's going to be about like shapes and how surfing shapes you and how you surf, and then how you surf shapes the boards you ride, that shapes like who you are, and then the coastline shapes also how you surf and where you live. Yeah, it all just goes straight back into shapes, like it all fits in there pretty well back into shapes.
Speaker 2:It all fits in there pretty well. Welcome to Water People a podcast about the aquatic experiences that shape who we become back on land. I'm your host, lauren Hill, joined by my partner, dave Rastovich. Here we get to talk, story with some of the most interesting and adept water folk on the planet. We acknowledge the Bundjalung Nation, the traditional custodians of the land and waters where we work and play, who have cared for this sea country for tens of thousands of years. Respect and gratitude to all First Nations people, including elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2:This season is supported by Patagonia, whose purpose-driven mission is to use business to save our home planet. Today we're in conversation with our youngest guest yet 11-year-old surfer, shaper and filmmaker, hunter Williams. This year Hunter won the Grom Shorts category at the Noosa International Surf Film Festival with his movie Heirloom. Informing. An impressive depth of knowledge about surfboard building and design is Hunter's spectral surfing skill. He talks us through peak moments of tube time and critical hang tens. Hunter's infectious wonder and curiosity are a potent reminder of the value of intergenerational relationships in all our lives. So we've had a bit of a busy kind of eventful last couple of months. What have you been up to?
Speaker 3:Well, at least I think it was two moons ago. I was on the road with Jack McCoy and his daughter's husband, Luke Campbell, and we were travelling around Oz sharing his film Blue Horizon that Jack made 20-odd years ago, and myself and Andy Irons were in that and Jack was in his, you know, mid to late 70s. He had been touring and making surf films for decades, Like, I think, one of the theatres we showed at. He showed a film there 50 years prior.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Like incredibly long career of making films and so anyway, we were on the road doing that and I was a bit reluctant at first and that's just. I don't know, through hyper socialising and stuff I can get a bit tired and a bit overwhelmed by that sometimes, but generally it's really fun and when it's happening.
Speaker 3:You've seen me be in that sort of situation and step into it and really enjoy it, but I always get a bit sort of hesitant beforehand, and that was the case with this with Jack. But you know, he'd had a pretty serious lung issue for going on a decade just over a decade actually and the last year or so he definitely struggled more than that previous decade of hardship with breathing in particular.
Speaker 3:And so when he was saying come on, dave, let's get on the road, let's do this. I was like, all right, let's do it. And so as soon as it started, I was so stoked that we were doing that. But do you remember when we caught that Jack, the first moment? Was down in St Kilda, in the cold streets of Melbourne.
Speaker 2:I almost thought he was joking. He was so winded, belaboured by his body, he was barely walking. He was asking not to walk and talk at the same time because he was having a really difficult time with his health. So it was a shock. It was a total shock, for, like he is a big personality and a big man. A big man and a big talker like wraps you up in his world immediately.
Speaker 3:Usually, that was my experience of him, so it was a big change to see him like that, yeah, definitely Very tired.
Speaker 2:And then a huge transformation. Exactly To see him on stage yeah transformation, exactly, to see him on stage, yeah, to be filled with mana, with life, with the energy of doing what he loves, to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was radical, yeah, it was, wasn't it? Yeah? So he would literally be asleep and kind of in and out of consciousness and then, you know, the lights would go on and the cinema's screen would turn on and all the people were in their seats and we would get under each of his armpits, wake him up and say, all right, jack, it's time. And he would just come to life like a flower to the sun in the morning. He'd just stand up and unfurl and then he'd sit there and probably, aside from being in the tube with his camera shooting pictures or hugging one of his family members, I think his favourite place was being on a stage with one of his films behind him and a full packed theatre in front of him and a captive audience, and he would.
Speaker 3:Just, he just loved it and he was so good at it and so, yeah, he would just come to life and he would talk story and he would speak. He had a very clear sort of slideshow presentation and it was his sort of backstory spiel, he would call it, and he loved to give people a bit more backstory on the film he was about to show and so it really felt like you were in on something special that night by coming by, making the effort to come and get together, and he would reward you with these cool backstories, you know. And so he started those nights with talking about his story of when he was around 12 years old and he was in Hawaii growing up. He went down to body surf one of like Makapu or Sandy Beach, one of the really heaving, crystal clear beach breaks in Hawaii and he stuffed his head in some tubes and just couldn't believe what he was seeing. And he raced home afterwards and went to his mom Mom, mom, you're not going to believe this world that's out there. And she was just sort of like yes, dear, very nice, that's good, I'm glad you're having fun. And she didn't get it.
Speaker 3:And he spoke of how, in that moment he realized he wanted to get a camera, get back in that space and show her and then everyone else how magical and fleeting that space is. And then he did it and he never stopped until he was 77. And the day before he left his body he was showing Blue Horizon. He was showing his water footage because when we shot Blue Horizon he was still filming with high speed film cameras huge, massive lumps of old but incredible technology. He was still able to swim right into the pit at Chopu and be this big, incredible water man in those powerful spaces. So he really loved showing Blue Horizon and all of those shots.
Speaker 2:Before we get to the wrap up that I feel like you're getting to, I wanted to ask you how it was for you seeing Blue Horizon 20 years later. I know it was an especially special experience for me because your dad is in the film and our little boy, minnow, got to see his grandpa moving and talking in a way that he never got to because your dad died before he was born yeah, yeah, there's just so many intertwined threads here in this conversation and I hope to be able to touch on all of them because they all feel really strong, but that was definitely the highlight of seeing blue horizon again.
Speaker 3:I hadn't watched it since 20 years ago, so it was really cool to be in the theatre. Have you next to me, minnow on my lap, and my dad, come on screen and say the things that were captured, which is his line. You know, if you think, if you feel in your heart that you want to do something, you think in your mind that it's possible, then the only thing left to do is go out and do it. And you know, think it, feel it, do. It was his line in that film. And there were nights where especially actually in our local area at the Lennox Head Screening, where the biggest audience reaction to the whole movie was that moment when my dad said that and it blew me away. Minnow was on my lap and I was bawling my eyes out, of course, because I cried every time that scene came on out of joy and just gratitude, and I just was whispering in Mino's ear listen to that, mate, that's your, that's your Dita, your granddad's spirit, like lighting all these people up.
Speaker 3:You know, 20 years later he's not here now in his body, but look at that, listen to that, everyone's cheering. That was so special. I hadn't heard that term really before he, before that was captured, and it certainly wasn't a mantra. And what I mentioned in Blue Horizon was that my dad taught me a meditation technique and he did. It was like mind focus, the importance of being able to have long sustained focus on anything and once I felt that in one regard it would be something I could apply to anything. And I don't know is that? Do you see that with me? Do you think that's something I have? You know, because I feel like I can pick up an instrument I can write when I need to.
Speaker 3:I can learn things that I haven't been able to do before, and I all bring it back to actually to that being able to have long sustained focus. So and just not get in my own way andthink things, just feel like I can do it and do it, and if I can't, we'll just learn. And so that was true. But just the clarity of it, jack really brought that out of my dad and it was amazing and it was hilarious to see two big alpha males together.
Speaker 2:I would have loved to see them in a room together.
Speaker 3:Fantastic yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the reasons we wanted to chat with Hunter at this point in time was because of Jack's recent passing and the fact that Hunter happened to be at the very last screening of Blue Horizon on the sunny coast, near where he lives, and was able to connect with Jack, which is a really special kind of full circle moment. In the few screenings that I got to be at, the thing that probably lit up Jack the most was seeing all the Groms there, the Groms that he'd invite up onto the stage and give away free gear to. He really had a strong sense of legacy and making sure young people were connecting with his work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the past and learning from others' lives and hardships and the past, and learning from others' lives and hardships. And what's interesting to me right now, looking back through all this period, the last few months and then this story in general, is chatting with Hunter. I just see a little me, I just was so blown away by his curiosity and his complete obsession with surfing and seeing everything as surfing.
Speaker 3:And I can really relate to that and remember back to being his age but existing in a surfing world when I was that age so the early 90s where if you were quirky and had other interests, like I did, it was really not that supported and I was pretty much felt ostracized most of the time or like a weirdo or just didn't fit in and I remember most of the time it didn't really faze me but it did still. And there were times that were hard and there were times where I felt really lonely, especially as a young sponsored surfer, around other sponsored surfers. I just did not feel like I fit in and could really be myself around others. So when sitting and talking with Hunter and realizing he's growing into a surfing world now that is not like that so much. There are places that are still very monocultural and singularly focused, but in general he feels comfortable being himself.
Speaker 3:And that's amazing to look at. To look at a young boy about to become like a teenager and move into that pretty turbulent time in our lives, to see him feel supported and to see him being himself and not so scared of that is so heartwarming and it makes me think about our legacies and what we pass on through being ourselves. And if we do make art, then what we pass on through our art, like Jack did Because for me I recently and this was like the week or two after Jack passed I listened to the In Excess song Disappear. There's a remix of it by Morales and it's a song that is in Bunyip Dreaming. If people can look that up somehow or get it. Actually it's not on the internet, so you have to find a DVD or a VHS of it and watch the sequence.
Speaker 3:It's this incredible song with Luke Egan and Munga Barry surfing a remote, beautiful part of Australia and the lyrics in the song are about a woman. It's about Michael Hutchins singing about a woman who he says you're so fine, you blow my mind and you make the world disappear. And then he says disappear, disappear, disappear. He says it over and over. When I saw that I was 12 years old. My sister got me that movie that Jack made in 1992 for Christmas and I watched it like I was a Buddhist monk repeating a mantra just over and over, and over, and over and over.
Speaker 1:And so, like I was a Buddhist monk repeating a mantra just over and over and, over and, over and over.
Speaker 3:And so when I was a kid I interpreted that sequence as the world is what the singer was singing about. It's so fine, it blows your mind. And the word disappear meant to me, if we didn't look after this coast, these beautiful places that were in the images in the film, the coast, this life, this way of being surfing, would disappear. And I thought all of that because Jack paired those lyrics and that music with images of awe, like it was Jack, like he was a kid again in Hawaii wanting to show his mum how beautiful this world is, how beautiful that world of surf and coast really is. And when he coupled that with those lyrics and also the line don't destroy what you came to enjoy, which was a final sort of graphic print that came on the screen at the end of Bunyip Dreaming, I interpreted that as an absolute like love sequence poem, love letter to the world of the ocean and coast and surfing. And I hadn't thought of any of that. Right, I just never. I hadn't thought of any of that since I was 12, until Jack left his body. I heard that piece of music again because I inherited all of his CDs and DVD collection and that was in it and I realized how malleable we are when we are of that age. When we are 11, 12 years old. We're just like wet clay. You can just shape us so easily and you can have moments that traumatize you and make life really hard and can continue on making life hard for a long time. Or you can be inspired and lit up and supported, and I felt that from Jack's films. And then here we are 30 years later and little Hunter is that same age and he saw one of Jack's films, got to shake his hand, say aloha, hi, jack, and all of that, and then he gets lit up by that experience and all of that's really sweet and it's kind of poetic and beautiful. But it's also made me really think about being able to cope with struggle and hardship and especially being able to cope as a young man.
Speaker 3:When we look at people taking their lives, young men are a real high number. So 75% of all suicides in Australia are young men. 75% of all suicides in Australia are young men. Males are obviously not learning how to navigate emotional turbulence, navigate life and hardship very well, and so taking your life is a really common route for a lot of overwhelmed men. My dad took his life, and so I look at all these things we're talking about right now like, wow, look at all these entwining lines you know, like how to deal with your life so you don't get so lost and so traumatized and struggling so much that that's your only route is to take your life. And I just think all of those thoughts and just feel so stoked for someone like Hunter that he is growing into a world that will equip him with more tools and more comfort too, to just be himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're all just to me. That's just, I guess, probably quite common type of reflection you have when death has occurred. You start to really review things and go, oh, who am I? Who was I when I first encountered this person? So I'm thinking who am I when I encountered Jack McCoy's surf films? Well, I was a 12-year-old grommet who he moulded through his art just by sending it out into the world. It's just wonderful. I really have enjoyed this last period of time in terms of all of the real conversations I've been able to have with surfers of such a varied age, from the Wayne Lynches and Morris Coles and Rusty Millers and Dick Van Stralens all the way down to Hunter who's, you know, just starting a surfing life.
Speaker 2:And really picking up the threads of the legacies of surf, filmmaking, design and paying close attention to the patterns in nature and innovating with them. That's what I found so exciting about chatting with him and connecting with him is imagining where he's going to take all of these threads next.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so wonderful. I don't know about you, but I just feel so hopeful in meeting young people who have really attentive ears, really wide eyes and are supported. That's the biggest thing, like seeing his parents lovingly support but not push, you know, just be like okay, you've got an interest in storytelling and film and design. Well, hey, let's Dive right into it.
Speaker 2:Let's make space for it. It's just fantastic, I know. Didn't we all want that? We all do, and we got it. We still do and we get it in some ways and we don't in others, but it's just so heartwarming when you see a child supported.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We had such a lovely chat with Hunter and we hope you feel the stoke and the fizz and just the pure joy for this incredible surfing life, like we got to feel when we were sitting in the room with him.
Speaker 3:Agreed. You know there's waves in Northern Territory.
Speaker 1:There is.
Speaker 3:Arnhem Land Point waves Point.
Speaker 2:Longboard waves.
Speaker 3:Noosa style. Actually, yeah, you just got to look out for crocs.
Speaker 1:And does anyone surf Occasionally? Do you need like a big swell to get there? But and does anyone surf Occasionally? Do you need like a big?
Speaker 3:swell to get there, but there's waves all over this big island, which is cool, and you know who's probably come across. So many of them, but maybe didn't ride them, was Malcolm.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, malcolm Douglas, your buddy, malcolm Douglas, I can't believe you know his name.
Speaker 3:That's just the coolest thing ever. My guy when I was 11, who inspired me for adventures like that, was Albie Mangles. And when my friends and I would do little adventures when we were kids, which were silly little adventures around Burley Headland or something like we weren't really in the wild but we were pretending that we were. If we came across a challenge, we'd be like I'll be right, I'll be Albie Mangles. And that was our mantra, that was our line that we'd always say to each other I'll be right, I'll be mangles. Have you got one like that from Malcolm? Does he have any sayings where?
Speaker 1:No, not really, I can't remember his show?
Speaker 3:Does he start or end in any particular way?
Speaker 1:He starts with a car driving through the massive-est puddle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, puddle.
Speaker 1:And then, like, all the stuff goes everywhere. Really it's quite, quite funny is he a fisher like?
Speaker 3:is his main thing fishing?
Speaker 1:no, just anything.
Speaker 3:Anything is he like a hunter is his is most of his things he does on his shows, like catching animals or freeing animals or catching things to eat he does usually do that, I mean, but then he also brings along like stuff for damper and oh oh just cooking up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just can't remember him. There was another one called the Leyland Brothers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You seen them? Yeah, they're adventurers too. I feel like there's a history of that in Australia, which is really cool, of people who, like, have just got real bush skills or ocean skills and then also are really good at telling the stories of those adventures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then also are really good at telling the stories of those adventures.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is that something that interests you too, like the storytelling bit?
Speaker 1:It's really interesting.
Speaker 3:Really why.
Speaker 1:Well, you kind of get different stories from different places and often if you get quite a couple of stories from different places, then you can pretty much imagine exactly what it's like in all of the stories.
Speaker 3:it's really cool. So you you reckon that like the storytelling part of it is like the way you can share your experience with people so they get an idea of the place like, or the thing that's happening definitely that's what we've come to see with you and your work. Well, I wouldn't call it work, I'd call it play, but the way you have played and made some short stories through your surfing experience. Lauren, do you remember when we first saw Hunter?
Speaker 2:I do. We first encountered Hunter's play work. I'm on the jury for the Noosa International Surf Film Festival that just started last year and you were one of the inaugural filmmakers, one of the first filmmakers to enter a film into that festival. And we all sat down in this very living room with the projector on, with our little boy, minnow, who was six then, and we watched you surfing the beautiful points of your home break and just perched on the nose. And not only that, but you were just so stoked and so frothy and that was conveyed so beautifully in the film that you made. It made us want to go surfing and for me, as someone who aspires to tell stories about surfing and make films about surfing, like that's the highest compliment If you make other people want to go surfing. With what you make, you've, like nailed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's kind of like the interesting thing about like surf films. You get to see different places but it also makes you want to go and surf those places Like it's really quite interesting.
Speaker 2:And where do you live, Ante?
Speaker 1:I live out at Karam, which is in the Noosa hinterland.
Speaker 2:And how long have you been surfing?
Speaker 1:Nine years. I think around that what?
Speaker 2:do you mostly ride?
Speaker 1:Well, up at Noosa it's usually quite small, so I ride my log, but then also when it gets like hip to shoulder I'll ride like a fish or something wider, and then sometimes it gets big and low tide and just square running kegs. That's a really great time to grab a single fin oh wow, a single fin, I like this.
Speaker 2:That was unexpected. That was an unexpected choice.
Speaker 3:Why would you choose the single fin, you reckon?
Speaker 1:I find them like really good because you've also got like the um sweep rowing right down the beach. They're so thick and you can get in a lot earlier than the rest of the people on the thrusters. Gotcha, so like.
Speaker 3:And what about in the tube on a single fin? Have you felt that yet?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're like so thick and they just point. It's like point and shoot and the wave and the board does everything for you. Point and shoot, the wave and the board does everything for you, point and shoot.
Speaker 3:I can't believe you've already come across that term as an 11-year-old.
Speaker 1:Point and shoot.
Speaker 3:That's like adult surf experience. When you ride big waves a lot of the times the boards you ride are real pointy, they're real long and they used to always be single fins, but now there's all kinds of things that you can ride. But that is one of the cool feelings of big waves is that there's so much energy coming from the wave that all you need to do is point and shoot and you don't have to wiggle, you don't have to do any up and down things, you just I actually was at the surface point at Phillip Island and it might have been four foot, probably about that.
Speaker 1:And I remember there was this one bomb that came through and I paddled for it and I took off and I was on my 20 and it was really funny because I dropped in and I was going so fast that very luckily the waves are fat one and I was just going straight and I was going so fast and I feel like on a 20 they're really fun because you can go super fast, but I feel like on my single fin you can control the speed really well.
Speaker 3:Wow, I mean not saying that wasn't fun, that was really fun yes but um, I feel like if I was on my single fin I might have been able to actually turn not well, I would say that it's probably taken Lauren and I, you know, about 30 years of surfing to get to that epiphany, so you're miles ahead of most of us when we were 11 there Definitely me. I just learned about the speed of twin fins about two years ago that was after me saying Lauren, you need to try a twin fin, you need to try a twin fin, you need to try a very annoying lead.
Speaker 2:I was one fin all the way for the first 20 years of my surfing life yeah, single fin gal Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, singles are pretty good.
Speaker 3:They are, I think so too it's all great, they're all so wonderful Speaking of such things as fins and design. We just learnt from you telling us that you had the opportunity to chat with George Greeno. Yes, how did that come about?
Speaker 1:Well, I was, you know, my mum like worked out that he could get his number I don't know where from, but somewhere or another and I was always thinking like I'd better call him one stage or another. And then we were actually just at the car park a little bit down from Surfies Point at Phillip Island and we just thought that's a really great time to call because, like, it's going dark and I just I don't know why, but it just came on I thought I need to call him yeah and I did, and the first time it just went to his voice message thingy, and then I left him a little message and then I tried again and this time it went like bring, bring, bring, bring.
Speaker 1:Oh hello, I really did, I got a fright.
Speaker 3:Because that was him. Yeah, it was him.
Speaker 1:He said oh hello, I nearly jumped.
Speaker 3:I was like what did you say? Who's that? Did he say who's that? Who are you? You're calling me.
Speaker 1:I was like oh hey, George, my name's Hunter Williams and I'm 11 years old and I like to surf and shape all my own boards, and it kind of went off down that path for quite a little bit. Wow, I was really stoked.
Speaker 3:And was he stoked?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he sounded pretty stoked.
Speaker 3:I bet he did.
Speaker 1:And then we had a little chat about like hydrodynamics and different things like that. And like, like he said he was writing a short book at the moment about, like, how we can get inspiration from nature, and I actually was like that's crazy, because I've just made a movie about how that happens. Like with the Cormorant's wings got concave in it, so like when the wind comes up off the wave, it pushes into the concave, lifting the Cormorant up.
Speaker 1:And like, like a platypus's tail, with like flex as it pushes it up and down. It's like on his super speedy spoons how that thing flexes like off a bottom turn and gets flying down the line.
Speaker 3:Exactly Variable rocker. Do you remember him saying that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was crazy, he would have said Hunter, it's all about variable rocker. That's exactly what he said.
Speaker 3:That's so great, you would have stoked him out so much. So George's daily routine of surfing in the morning, having a big lunch, having a kickback, so his thing of having a siesta sleep every day. He's 84 and he's still surfing every day. So these are like tips on how to live a long, great surfing life. So he grows his food, he catches his fish. He'll go surfing every morning. He doesn't make plans more than a couple of days out. And I learned this a few years ago when I said to George one day it was like a Sunday or something I said, George, what are you doing on Thursday? I'd love to come and have a cup of tea. And he laughed. He said Dave, thursday, that's four days away. I don't know what I'm going to be doing. The wind could be north, the wind could be south, there could be some fish, there might be a new soil. Four days, why are you asking me four days?
Speaker 3:He got all angry about it and I was like I got embarrassed and I was like, yeah, what am I thinking? Why am I thinking so far into the future? So that's another one of George's tips on how to stay happy is to stay in the moment.
Speaker 3:Just whatever's happening then, and there live it exactly so he would have been so stoked because he lives alone and he is 84 and he's lived alone very long time. But he loves reaching out and talking with people and he does that every afternoon. After his kickback he'll wake up at 2 132 o'clock. He'll have a cup of tea and he'll have some sort of sweet cake or a cookie and then he'll get on the phone and he'll talk to his friends all over the world. And now you are one of those friends and I reckon you would be the youngest friend he has.
Speaker 3:So, you've got to keep calling George. He'll be stoked, especially when you're saying things like cormorant wings, concave, platypus, tail flex, so good.
Speaker 1:So good. I mean, it's all pretty easy because the answers are just sitting right there in front of you and all you have to do is look at them and read and get inspiration from nature, and you've got the key to the door Open into your shaping bay. You go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, exactly.
Speaker 2:Hunter. I heard you say today that George is someone who has inspired you. Why? What is it about George and his work and his play that means something to you?
Speaker 1:I really find that George is just a wonderful person and also the life that he's lived and like all the inspiration you can get from him, like he's even like filmed dolphins for 20 years to make a 20-minute movie just because of the inspiration from the actual dolphin Like it's really amazing and he's pretty inspirational.
Speaker 2:I feel like he's a master at what you were talking about, at paying attention, like paying attention to the world around him and using that inspiration to make new things like to get creative in a fresh way.
Speaker 1:Definitely Like. Even when I was on the phone to him he was like, oh, I'm making a lure to go tailor fishing off my boat. I was like you're gonna be doing that quite late into the night because, this is like way later than now.
Speaker 1:And he said oh, I'm just going out off my in my boat, I'm just driving down to the um jetty to get my boat and go fishing. I was like wow Over the phone call. At first he was painting the lure, he added the eye into the end, he tied it onto his rod, he packed his car and then he drove off down to the thing. So it's like it's really funny.
Speaker 2:That's so great. Well, try this question, hunter. It's the question that we always ask of our guests about a time or experience that changed you, after which you were never the same. Do you have a moment like that? I feel like you really do. I absolutely do, oh yeah, oh, wow, you set us straight. All right, all right.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, I might have been three or four years old and we were surfing Crescent Head with my dad. I was on the front of his board and it was really fun. Like there was waves and it was a really long wave that day, like it was going right from the head of the point all the way into pretty much the river mouth.
Speaker 1:It was a perfect day and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's massive whales popped up like no more than 50 metres away from us, and they were launching and breaching and spraying and playing and rolling wow like.
Speaker 1:It was really amazing, because I was already having like the best surf I've ever had and then, all of a sudden, these gigantic animals start flopping and playing in their interesting way. It was really, though, because not many people have surfed and had that close-up. I only know one guy that's had like such a close-up. It was actually sitting out the back somewhere in Torquay, and it was quite far out, and this massive whale came up from underneath him and breached, and he got flung to the tail. There's leg rope wrapped around the actual tail of the whale, and the whale dived back down again, and somehow it just managed to pull the leg rope off and float back up to the surface.
Speaker 3:Wow, that was pretty. I'm glad that didn't happen to you that day, because he wouldn't have even noticed that you were on his tail little tiny guy. So how do you think you were different before and after that experience? What changed for you after that, do you think?
Speaker 1:I mean for me before then, surfing was surfing, like you know, you do a piece of art and you paint, you go to the beach and you go surfing. But then after that my whole life has pretty much just evolved around surfing, like I only go to school four days a week because on the fifth day I'm like shaping boards, getting inspiration, calling George, all different things, and it's really helped me through life, like different things, different situations, and it's always just been there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's amazing. Well, I think too, I can see that for you, having that experience and we've experienced this as a family is that surfing is wave riding, but it's also all the other things that happen around it, and we can think that, but when you actually experience it, like you did with the whales, it's another thing. So that's so cool that you felt that I have to think, now that you're in the world of telling stories and making short films and that kind of play, surely that's tied into that experience where there's so there's just so much going on, isn't there with a surfing life.
Speaker 3:What are the other things that really excite you when you think about a surfing life? So it's not just the wave riding, but all the other parts of it. What? What pops up for you in your mind when you think of that?
Speaker 1:I actually think like a lot about different boards to experiment with not a lot of people think that. No, a lot of people get really stuck in doing it one particular way and I like writing anything, like I said earlier fishes, fishes, singles, body boards, surf mats, long boards. Give me something and I'll ride it.
Speaker 3:Great.
Speaker 1:I'll try my best.
Speaker 3:When you're eating your cereal, do you eat like one flake at a time, one day, and then the next day you'll have? Like you won't use a spoon and the next day you'll use a fork? Are you to that degree? Do you do that like with everything in life?
Speaker 1:Experimentalist. Without meaning to, yes, I do.
Speaker 3:That's just you then. Yeah, totally. That's so great. I'm so excited to see where that goes for you because we live in such an exciting time now as surfers, where there's a lot of us are really excited about having different ways of wave riding available Because, like you said, when you live on the Sunshine Coast, you go down there and the waves are small. If you only ride a pointy nose, little thruster, that's hard to get some speed in those waves you're probably going to get pretty bored pretty quick. Yeah, so what happens for you when you go to the ocean? As an 11 year old in the year 2025? What's in your mind when you're going to the beach? What are you thinking about?
Speaker 1:well, I think of what the beach could be like, like, and then I think, okay, so I'm gonna grab that board for that, I'm gonna grab that board for that, and that board for that, and usually I have at least three to five boards in the car. Wow, I just pack them all in the boot and, uh, when I get there I'll usually start off on one, like my log or my um plastic machine which is like one of bob's transitional v bottom. He um made it with me and it's six foot two. It's got the craziest V in the tail Small version.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Can I ride? That one day Can you share that with me one day? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:There was a little bit of hesitation there I go with anybody.
Speaker 1:It's very special. I even sometimes am like oh, should I be riding it now, yes, you should, you should, yes, I should.
Speaker 3:They're made to be ridden and not to be hung on walls.
Speaker 1:No, I'm definitely not going to hang mine.
Speaker 3:Well, that's really special. So you have them out of like reclaimed seconds. Blanks too, hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a lot of the boards you're talking about are ones that office here and there's a place with all the stacked up blanks that we don't really want and you can come and grab one any time, go up to the bay at the back so long as there's nobody in there, and start shaping. And when he said that, I was really excited and then so that's what I do now. So like I'll go in, I'll be like, oh, so I want to make this board and I want this rocker and you know whatever, and I just go and I'm like I've got to pick the blank and the blanks are pretty much perfect for me anyway.
Speaker 3:They would just have a little nick out of them somewhere or something. Yeah, just like somewhere.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe a dog's accidentally knocked into it and it's fallen on the floor and it's got like a tiny flat bit, two centimetres long or whatever isn't going to affect me.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:There's some that I could pretty much get glass in and there and you wouldn't understand what's wrong with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah that's amazing. That's really cool. So does that come into your mind when you think about things? Like you know, we live in a world where there's lots of plastic in the ocean. We live in a world where there's a lot of things that we need to fix in terms of, you know, sick rivers and different issues. Is that something that's on your mind as an 11 year old, or not so much?
Speaker 1:it is in ways. I mean if I go down to the beach and after a big swell, often there's like millions of microplastics along the shore and I'm not happy, or if I find like a washed up bottle. I'm not all that happy, but otherwise it's pretty good. I mean, like even my dad used to make boards like the Eco Blanks, which were made out of algae, that's another way that we can do it. And then even you like you got flax on your board instead of that plastic resin strands.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:When you think of all the offcuts. Well, hundreds of boards get made a day, so there must be a bit of waste going on. And all the new blanks and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great point.
Speaker 2:What's it like, hunter you paddle out into the lineup and what's the vibe like where you surf. What's the culture like, what's good about it and what's not so good about it.
Speaker 1:What's good about it is when you paddle out. Usually the waves are, I mean, 300 days of the year. I reckon the points are pretty good. You sound like Bruce Brown and so like I'll paddle out and there's at least I don't know 10 people that I'll know out there and like even on a good day you've pretty much got like a whole surfing family out there, like your surfing grandparent family. You've got I don't know other people like your age and then all the way up to 80 years old. It's really amazing and you paddle out and you all have such a good time. And then there's people that you probably haven't seen before and you give them a good go and then they can either become friends or, you know, they can go surf and just, uh, keep surfing on their own. You know, stay open, stay happy it's pretty nice.
Speaker 2:What's not as good about the lineup? When you paddle out into it sometimes?
Speaker 1:that's a hard one. I mean, noose is pretty perfect most of the time, it really. I mean, sometimes you have the odd person that's come from the Gold Coast and thinks they're like a Go-Hung, like they're just they really want to catch as many waves as they can, don't care if anyone else actually goes nuts, and I feel like the thing, that's the only bad part. But then there's always so many locals out there that then they'll sort it out and say, hey, you, you're not from here, wait your turn. And I mean, even if like there's one or two like people that live there and then there's a whole thing of people that don't live there, we wait our turn and we respect. And like we won't just go straight around someone just because it's our home break, I mean everyone there's like really happy, they share Wildlife's great, I mean everyone there's like really happy.
Speaker 3:They share wildlife's great.
Speaker 1:What wildlife? Turtles, dolphins, sharks, whales, cormorants, gannets, everything.
Speaker 3:And koalas in the trees right there on the rocks. Oh yeah, I mean like you know, not just out in the water, eh.
Speaker 1:Oh no. And then, like, you can look in and walk up and you've got kookaburras, koalas. You know, there was one time where, like for about a week, you'd walk up and down the footpath and nobody would know. But we think there was, like there was this massive python up the tree. We think it must have eaten, like a small wallaby or something like that, and it was just digesting its meal and it was just sitting there, curled up in the tree, just looking down at the people that didn't notice it, just looking down at the people that didn't notice it. So it was pretty funny.
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Speaker 3:So did you go to the Sunny Coast one?
Speaker 1:No, because it's beautiful, I'm going to cry.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad. What did you think?
Speaker 2:What did you think? What did you think of that movie?
Speaker 1:It was like the best movie I've ever seen. And like to see the two different like pathways, and it's so amazing to see like they're so different but they're the same in one way. But like also to see like your way of like having like a great time in the water always, you know, being happy riding different boards. But then you also see the other side where it's like you know quite 90s and it's like you know you win, you lose. If you don't do well in this, then you can't do this. You know it was quite under pressure in that and then you were surfing like so loose and just having like the under pressure in that, and then you were surfing like so loose and just having like the best time ever running all different boards and searching for different feelings.
Speaker 3:Did you hear jack speak at all? Was he able to talk that night? A little bit, a lot did he, you said a really nice thing to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I said um, it's so nice to be able to see, like, the two different pathways and somebody actually able to recognize the two different paths and have, you know, two different lives. Also, he didn't really say what one he liked. It was like take your choice, but personally really liked your Way.
Speaker 2:That was really. Will you take any inspiration from that film into your own filmmaking? Was there anything that you felt inspired by in your own storytelling? Maybe?
Speaker 1:Really there's quite a lot. Yeah, like I really liked it how it was kind of like choose your own way. That was really nice and let the audience have full control of what they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked that too.
Speaker 3:Well, I have to say that, knowing Jack for a long time and then being with him for those last few weeks, I wasn't at that show, but the night before we did it at Lennox and I just know that he was getting such a kick out of how many kids were coming to his screenings when he toured out around Australia. And to know that at his last one you would have stepped up and said that it would have really hit him in the heart and made him and his spirit very happy.
Speaker 1:He said it's actually worth more to him than a room full of gold bars.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which was pretty nice.
Speaker 3:I know it is. That was his reason for living. He'd made his whole life about showing people how special it is to be in the water and looking at and feeling the things that we feel it was also pretty special to see him because he had so much life left in him.
Speaker 1:He was planning future films and all this different other stuff and it was like I can't believe I actually saw him. Was it that night?
Speaker 3:The next day. The next day, he left his body, yep.
Speaker 1:He like drove home, went to. Well, he got driven home, went to sleep, yep, and that was it, that was it, yep.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I really appreciate about you, hunter, is you're very philosophical about your surfing life. You're thinking about it in deeply meaningful ways. Can we talk a little bit about that, some of your philosophies behind surfing? Maybe that you've drawn from people like Tom Blake or others who have studied nature and the joys that we get from nature?
Speaker 1:I mean, for me, surfing is really the greatest joy and art form and every time you paddle out it's like you've got a blank canvas and you just draw lines on the canvas and it turns out to be a beautiful piece of artwork.
Speaker 1:And I kind of think that's really a gift that we're able to ride the waves and because, when you think about it, they're like moving lumps of water and then we've adapted in a way to be able to ride them and have fun with these waves. I mean they're really interesting also because like we are something from land and we're able to share with the ocean and we get these beautiful waves through. And I think like it's pretty crazy that these swells are made and the winds are perfect and just make these beautiful things that roll in in the form of a wave, and it's really quite wonderful how you can paddle out and catch those waves all the way to shore. And also that like it's such a beautiful place that, like tom blake said, it's like the church of the open sky. It's like a place for everything pretty much. Even if you have like a bad day or something, you can go in, wash off and you'll feel a lot better when you come back out 100%.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Where does competitive surfing fit into that church of the open sky for you?
Speaker 1:I mean, I really don't mind it because the camaraderie that you can get from it, like you know, you meet people from overseas, and then you've also got like people from the area coming in together as well. That's really nice. You can meet friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good inspiration. Where are the places that you're dreaming of taking your surfing to in the world? Are there any waves in particular that you like are at the top of your list to surf?
Speaker 1:I mean I wouldn't mind surfing Neas, That'd be pretty good Indo through there, but mostly actually at the points in Noosa. I mean that would be pretty wonderful, I hear you on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure that's the theme.
Speaker 3:So the other 1,000 million people who have frequented that place. It's just so beautiful. It's so cool to hear how that place is rubbed off on you, because I feel like being able to be in the water as a kid and look out behind the waves and see, you know, a green sea turtle or a leatherback or something big or a loggerhead. Have you seen a loggerhead?
Speaker 1:up there. Yeah, they're beautiful, you have.
Speaker 3:Did you smell its breath? No, have you ever smelt turtle breath?
Speaker 1:Yes, it stinks, it does.
Speaker 2:It really stinks.
Speaker 1:You know, back to the thing with inspiration from nature. Like, actually we found a turtle, well River found a turtle that was stranded in a rock pool under a rock, like stuck under there, and the tide had gone out and the thing was still alive. But we pulled it out, wedged it out and somewhere or another and it was breathing. And I was quite surprised when I went to walk back around the point to find them sitting in a rock pool with quite a small little turtle.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And I had a look and I thought these things can go through the water so nice, I might as well have a look at it. And I bent its fins and they were so flexible, but then they'd spring back. So like I saw it using them like when it was swimming, like that it would like flex and then spring and it would like leap, leap forward.
Speaker 1:And then also it's got like a big concave through under its shell and, um, it's really funny because, like you know, when it's like going over the rocks and stuff, the water would push up and then push up off the rocks and it would probably like push it up and along more yeah, like a seed when you squeeze a seed through your thumb and your finger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that and then also the shape of its shell was like rounded at the front and more pointy towards the back, like the airplane wing. Pretty much. That's right. You're right, man, spot on.
Speaker 3:That's so cool. Have you ever noticed that their fins can look really similar to humpbacks' fins in that they have a wide bit near to their body and then it kind of hinges, it comes in and then it has a long tapered bit?
Speaker 1:that flexes a lot. Yeah, it comes out, and then it's concave taper.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that is the fins I just gave you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Have that inspiration from them too. Oh, wow so. I'm hearing you when you're saying all this. All I can think of is just how much fun you're gonna have looking at the world around you, like george, for I hope, your whole life, because look at george right, he's 84 84 and you are 11. Loves it yes, you got on the phone with him and he would have been so excited to talk shop like ideas. Oh, what have you?
Speaker 3:mixed that platypus thing with this cormorant thing and this like he would be going off because you know his fins, the raked fin. Yeah, that was back in the day that blew everyone's minds when everyone had those huge, stiff d fins.
Speaker 1:They were like coming from the fastest fish in the ocean they were made from, like the tuna and, like I was saying here on the dart earlier, it's like a miniature version. When he said, when it's still got the oil in it, like and juices in its fins, you can feel, if you push hard enough, that it'll gently bend and get stiffer and stiffer and then it'll spring back. And I was doing that here, actually realizing what he was talking about. Like you can't usually feel it with broom and stuff, but then when you got like one of those streamlined really fast fish it really kicks in because those fins propel them so fast and those fish are so fast that it all makes sense.
Speaker 3:It does, doesn't it? It's reoccurring patterns. Yeah, we had a chat with some friends a while ago who are master food growers and they were talking about how surfers have the potential to be really good at growing food because of pattern recognition. So when you can recognise that there's a pattern in the land and you go, oh that spot, there is going to have more water in it, I'll grow these sort of fruits there, and then that's drier, and then you can look at the land Down the bottom of our property.
Speaker 1:Probably I think we might plant like tea trees all along there, and then we've got like an area that gets like moderate. So we've got like a little veggie patch there and then we've got like a long line of like fruit trees and stuff around the drier area of it.
Speaker 3:Awesome, that's so great.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite sensation in surfing right now? Like, what's the feeling that you're like? Oh, I just want to do that again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
Speaker 1:Um well, I was actually kind of thinking, because as soon as I got on that fish I realized that, like those fins are going to help me with, I really like going fast but having control, so like being able to like get speed but then still go like up and around and being able to control your board in kind of every situation being in like but going fast, I mean I do still like the feeling of going out of control really fast if someone asked you and they weren't a surfer what is tube riding?
Speaker 3:what would you say?
Speaker 1:I'd say it's where you get in, where you get put in a cabinet of water that's totally circular and it's pretty much like a cone of silence and sound at the same time like it's like silent and it's glass and it's you're in it, and then all these sounds are echoing and it's silence.
Speaker 3:It's kind of out of this world yes, it is, and you live in such a great zone for that. It's like you know, being able to fit into those noosa tubes while you're this age. You should do that as much as you can because that's just. It's an experience that is impossible to describe, really, to people who haven't experienced it, don't you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:But it's fun to try. I like that, the glass cabinet, the kind of silence.
Speaker 2:How do you compare tube riding to Hanging Ten? Similar sensation, similar, yeah, why.
Speaker 1:Similar in different ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I kind of find that like Hanging Ten, there's a real art to it and when you get it right it's really exciting and like, even when you're there, it kind of feels like you're flying, like you're hovering over the water and going along on these waves. It's amazing because, like pretty much sticking right out of the wave and you're looking over like nothing, and you just see the wave, you can't see your board anywhere. But then, like you hop in a tube and it's like really quite square and square and you're like sitting and you can just see the water going over and over and over and you're pretty much underwater, but not wet.
Speaker 3:It's cool, like the same exhilarating feeling in different ways if you could zoom forward in time 10 years, so you'd be 21. What would you like to be doing at that point in your life?
Speaker 1:Travelling around the world making movies and shaping boards for people.
Speaker 3:Very cool. Okay, what about 31,? 10 years further.
Speaker 1:I'd probably like to hang out around the points a bit more and still shape all the time.
Speaker 2:What do you see yourself making movies about in the future? Are there any big topics or places or people that are really gripping your imagination?
Speaker 1:actually, at the moment I'm planning out a film and it's going to be about like shapes and how surfing shapes you and how you surf, and then how you surf shapes the boards you ride, and then that shapes like who you are, and then the coastline shapes also how you surf and where you live, and, yeah, it all just goes straight back into shapes.
Speaker 3:Like it all fits in there pretty well and you make that like 400 hours long so we can just whenever we are sick or it's raining and there's no surf and you want to sit down and you want to watch a movie. We could just watch that for the rest of our lives. Do you reckon there's enough in that?
Speaker 1:there, there really would be there is a you could pretty much make like part one, part two and then go all the way into the hundreds yeah, for sure I've got so many ideas that just pop up here and now what do you do with that?
Speaker 3:so, when you're inspired by something, what's your process because I think this would be a really interesting one for other kids, like our little boy, minnow, and other kids to hear you talk about okay, how do you have a hundred ideas in your head today? How do you get some of them down on paper? Or actually happening in the world? What's your way of doing that? How do you choose?
Speaker 1:First, I get them all and I just jot them down as quickly as I possibly can. You write them down, yeah, and then, once I've got like quite a couple, I'll start filming. But also, while I'm getting the you know ideas and stuff, I'll also be filming just like little snippets here and there. And then when I start actually, once I've got enough of both of them, then I'll start filming actually for the movie and then I've pretty much got all the film and stuff.
Speaker 1:I just put it together and add the conversations and different things like that into it and there's your movie.
Speaker 2:Awesome, it's pretty good. Who's been the biggest inspiration in your surfing life?
Speaker 1:I almost reckon that's really hard I have quite a couple.
Speaker 2:Give us a few.
Speaker 1:Thomas Bexton. I mean he's been really nice and, you know, helped and given me different ideas, and whenever I really need help with anything, he's up to help.
Speaker 2:And he's a shaper of beautiful surfboards up your way. Yeah, he makes some really nice boards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he's always quite welcoming, like he'll be like oh hey, you know, I've got this, how thick should I make this, or what should I do here? And then he'll tell you and then help you through it, and then you, yeah, it's pretty easy when you get his help yeah.
Speaker 1:My dad's helped me a lot, like got me quite into surfing and then helped me shape my first boards and made boards for me and introduced me to, like you know, new boards and different things. Like that I reckon George has for his ongoing inspiration for surfing and surfing life also about. Like the different ideas that he has come up with I often find have inspired me to go on like another journey. I remember him and I was thinking about flexible boards, when Tom Wagner said, oh, come down to the beach and we'll have a little mix-up with our boards and I'll be like, oh, I was like, wow, I'm stoked, and I went down there and I remember the first day I rode a finless. It was really fast, hollow, too fast for any other board kind of wave, and on my first one I was like going so fast and I didn't really exactly know how to control it and then I slipped right out but then it grabbed its rail again and it brought me back around in and that really made me think of the different rail designs for those boards and then the flex and stuff. I mean I think before I heard about George I would have been like, oh, yeah, that'll be interesting and I would have gone down. Oh wow, this board's a bit crazy and had a little go, but I think it really really got me inspired to ride some very interesting boards.
Speaker 3:Well, it's endless, isn't it? It's just endless, definitely. Yeah, I'm so excited for you. It's so cool that all those possibilities are ahead of you.
Speaker 2:And how lucky that you have parents who think that surfing is so amazing and that you should be doing it. I had parents who were like when I got into my 20s they were like when are you going to stop doing this silly thing? Like you're not getting money from it, you're not like making a career out of it, it's never going to pay your mortgage. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:That's like possibly the worst thing that I'll ever hear in my life and I don't think I'm going to hear it. I don't think I'm going to hear it. I don't think I'll ever hear it. I think I'll hear hey, hunter, surf's. Good, today, go surfing. I'll be like, oh yeah, time to go.
Speaker 3:What about when the veggie patch is really struggling and you've got to do some work in the garden, but the waves are good? How are you going to handle that one?
Speaker 1:What I'm going gonna do is I'm gonna pick the best time, surf and then when it, you know, once I've had enough of that, you know, does that happen? Do you get enough? I don't. But when I feel like I physically have to go in, like sometimes I'll surf for like six hours straight and then go and get food. Or like there was one day when I surfed for, I think it it was about 10, 12 hours and I went in for one peanut butter sandwich and I was cooked, but I was so stoked.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. What's the best thing to eat after you're totally surf-cooked? What's the most delicious thing you can eat?
Speaker 1:Wheat, bix and anchovies.
Speaker 2:Together.
Speaker 1:No, not together.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was going to say I've never heard that that's your secret to success.
Speaker 3:That's how you're selling up. Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:wheat bix anchovy sandwich. Can you try it?
Speaker 1:you could not eat that no I usually like while making the wheat bix, I'll pick out like half the thing of anchovies and they're really nice because they're salty. Yep, and then you get something really sweet like milk on your Weet-Bix and not really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like, okay, okay, I've stopped surfing, just calm down.
Speaker 2:Then is it nap time. Is it nap time then, or no? Then it's go home and read.
Speaker 3:Go home and read yeah, nice, good balance, that's a great. Or?
Speaker 1:like possibly even go fishing or something like that. That's quite nice.
Speaker 3:I think you almost described one of George Greeno's perfect days, right there I was going to say I'm really seeing the parallels here.
Speaker 3:I've seen those cereal boxes in his house and big lumps of fish laying around. It's such a treat to chat with you, hunter, and one of the things we love about being able to do this podcast is have great chats like this and also think about how they can be useful for other people when they listen to them, that you might learn something, and I'm sure a lot of people will pick up something that they hadn't thought of before and something new from listening to your stoke. Yes, lauren.
Speaker 2:If you were going to put a message on a billboard about surfing that you feel like everyone should know about what surfing is or what it means. What would you put on the billboard Like a line or a slogan or something?
Speaker 1:The exact thing that I put on my first surfboard the best surfer is the one having the most fun.
Speaker 2:Time is precious. Thanks for spending some of yours listening with us today. Our editor this season is the multi-talented Ben Jake Alexander. The soundtrack was composed by Shannon Sol Carroll, with additional tunes by Dave and Ben. We'll be continuing today's conversation on Instagram, where we're at Water People Podcast, and you can subscribe to our very infrequent newsletter to get book recommendations, questions we're pondering, behind-the-scenes glimpses into recording the podcast and more via our website, waterpeoplepodcastcom.
