Waterpeople Podcast
Stories about the aquatic experiences that shape us.
Listen with Lauren L. Hill and Dave Rastovich as they talk story with some of the most adept waterfolk on the planet.
Waterpeople is a gathering place for our global ocean community to dive into the themes of watery lives lived well: ecology, adventure, community, activism, science, egalitarianism, inclusivity, meaningful play, a sense of humour. And, surfing, of course.
Waterpeople Podcast
Theory of Change (pt. 1): Waterwomen Camp Out
How does change happen when we, and the world, seem stuck in our ways?
We’re curious about how change happens – and what people are doing on the ground, in our community, to create the causal pathways to shift social and environmental ideas, norms, and policy.
Listen in for stories from the 2025 Waterwomen Camp Out put on by the NGO Surfers for Climate.
The Waterwomen Camp is an annual weekend of women in nature coming together to help shape the future of surf culture and protect what we love. Through a series of workshops, wellness, connection and celebration we focus on educating and empowering women to own their place in and out of the water.
We hear from a range of attendees - from twenty to seventy-somethings. From those new to environmental work, to those five or more decades into their activism. These are stories about women seeing needs in their community and rising to meet them – from climate policy, to first aid, cultural reconciliation, right to the hands-on nitty gritty of cleaning our local river water, so the waterways, and the surfspots that catch them, stay clean and healthy – so we can, too.
One thing we know for sure about cultural change: it doesn't happen alone. We need each other, and we need strong communities.
This episode is part of a two part mini-series exploring theories of change. Later this year, Dave will take us to a local River Festival involved in revitalising waterways.
Thanks to Caitlin Fine, Nidala Barker, Zoe White, Lucy Ewing, Courtney Miller, Aunty Lois Cook, Emjay Freeman, Kate McMahon, Tilly Hiscock, Stella, Emily, Britney, Dianne Tucker, Aunty Leila, and everyone who shared stories at the Waterwomen Camp Out 2025.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich
Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast
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The people in power gain power from separating us, from keeping us all fragmented. If we're acting in isolation, then none of us ever have the numbers or the power to actually change the system. There's a lot of fear or prejudice, I think, and bias across generations that stops us from acting together and that's actually maximized and exploited by the people in power and the fossil fuel industry.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the aquatic experiences that shape who we become back on land. I'm your host, lauren Hill, joined by my partner, dave Rastovich. Here we get to talk story with some of the most interesting and adept water folk on the planet and adept water folk on the planet. We acknowledge the Bundjalung Nation, the traditional custodians of the land and waters where we work and play. We've cared for this sea country for tens of thousands of years. Respect and gratitude to all First Nations people, including elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2:Today's episode is part of a mini mini series we're running this year about theories of change. We're curious about how change happens and what people are doing on the ground in our own community to create causal pathways to shift social and environmental ideas, norms and policy. Today we're off to this really great event called the Water Women Campout, put on by the NGO Surfers for Climate. This is the second year they've been running and I wanted you to come along as a reminder of the value of getting out into your community and just showing up. Time and attention are amongst our most valuable resources. There are so many things competing for them and I know it can be really easy to get stuck in the logic of what difference does it make if I go or not? And also the routine of everyday life. It's busy, life is full, but one thing we know for sure about change is that it doesn't happen alone. We need each other and we really need strong communities.
Speaker 2:Today we're heading out to the Water Women Campout and in a few weeks time Dave will be taking us along to a local river festival centered around cleaning up waterways.
Speaker 2:So the Water Women Campout is an annual weekend of women in nature coming together to help shape the future of surf culture in particular and to work on protecting what we love. I hope you'll listen along as we chat with women from their 20s into their 70s, young women who are at the beginning of finding their modality of activism, to women who have been working in various community spaces for four or five decades. I love the Water Women Campout for the way that it organizes a weekend of events around not only the head but also the heart and the hands, really engaging the whole person and prioritizing action, but also rest and connection, especially to country and to the people who have cared for these spaces for many, many generations before us, especially First Nations people, bundjalung people in particular in this case. So these are stories about women seeing needs in their community and rising to meet them. From climate policy to first aid, right to the hands-on nitty-gritty of cleaning our local river water. So waterways and the surf spots that catch them stay clean and healthy, so we can too.
Speaker 3:These practices and these protocols are the protocols of this country. By virtue of existing on this country, you are of this country. When we breathe in, we breathe in oxygen gifted to us by leaf and soil. By breathing out, we return the gift of carbon dioxide, which the oceans suck up and turn into kelp forests for fish to have homes. Whether or not we think we belong is irrelevant, because we do. And at our deepest molecular core and at our deepest molecular core, at our deepest spiritual core, the law of this land is the law that governs us, and to engage in it is to belong to it, is to accept responsibility for it. And there is so much power in that. And there is also so much power in that. And there is also so much grief. There is so much pain. There is so much pain for First Nations people. There is so much pain for people who came with the First Fleets. There is so much confusion and pain and dissociation for people who've just arrived here. That grief can be separation or it can be our turning point. It can be our way to break through the liars of division and remove our consent from that false story of separation.
Speaker 3:And there was a day where I was at a very special place for my family. This is in the kimberley, this is on java java country. There was a very, very large sand dune called when I want, and at one of our place of when I want, it's this big, big sand dune, like massive, and at the very top of this sand dune is heaps of shells, like cockle shells and oyster shells, and when you walk on it it sounds like you're walking on the ocean floor, because it's just like because you're walking on all those shells. That's a midden, that's a living site, from where our old people used to sit and feast. That's a minute. That's a living site from where our old people used to sit and feast. This sand dune faces a beautiful bay of perfectly flat, crystal clear water with a tide that rises nine metres every day and pulls out nine metres every day. When the water pulls out, you've got this beautiful silver kind of grey mud flap in front of you. When the water rushes in, it just turns into this turquoise bowl and the water wraps in right at the hill, right at the foot of the Winawile Sand Dune, and wraps back around it and fills into the salt flats and it turns into this glassy bowl that looks like a mirror and there's all these beautiful herrings and birds flying over it and all these beautiful fish you birds flying over it and all these beautiful fish, you can see them just jumping out of the water, these thick mud crabs, these just mangroves, sometimes crocodiles, but that's okay. And at the foot of that sand dune, of watching this landscape change every day, twice a day, going from blue bowl toflat, at the foot of that sand dune is the bones of our old people from millennia, the bones of our old people sitting at the bottom of the sand dunes that their descendants have come for generations upon generations to enjoy the feasts and gifts of the creek.
Speaker 3:And one day I was sitting at the top of Winawang with my dad and we'd just gotten a delicious mud crab, so we were enjoying that. I made a little fire and we were eating some little whiting. She'd never had it. I strongly recommend it's delicious.
Speaker 3:And it just occurred to me, this full-body realisation, that I didn't know either of the Jabba Jabba words for crab or for whiting, and I burst into tears because I just thought I have dishonoured my old people. I can't even speak to them in a language that they understand. How is that possible? It was moments ago that they were here in the scale of the earth, and I've forgotten. And I have the immense privilege of being born into a really culturally staunch family, with my auntie rewriting a dictionary of juggling Yet I didn't know the words, and that grief was just all-encompassing. I just was riddled with resentment for my father's father, who came from Scotland, and I was like how dare they? And it was like my very DNA was vibrating at this internal violence.
Speaker 3:And as I was going through this process, I turned to my dad in tears, just sobbing, you know, like, and he just looks at me and says what's going on?
Speaker 3:And I was like well, this is what's going on, and I don't even remember the words. He looks at me dead square in the face and he bursts out laughing, which is definitely the reaction that 14-year-old me wanted, laughing, which is definitely the reaction that 14-year-old me wanted. And he just said to me like why are you trying to think with your head? Like those stories, those songs, they're in your flesh and they're in your bones. So this song, flesh and Bone, is the flesh of the cockle shell and the bones of my old people. It's my flesh and my bones that, clunkily and with great ridicule, try to write new things, try to sing the wrong songs, try to remember words that feel clunky in my mouth and learn a language that I wasn't brought up speaking Flesh and bone. So when I'm singing the song, I just really want to honour my old people and also all your old people that exist in your flesh and in your bones.
Speaker 5:All life ever learned can be sung in a few words A complex simplicity gifted life by land and sea. My ancestors stand up behind me, tell the story of what it took to make me a gift of flesh and bone and a heart to feel it all, and I will not dishonor that. I stand my part to play, even when I am afraid, and I understand it now. I don't have to have answers. I'm allowed to make mistakes. Mama, I hope you hear my voice into your ocean, the songs we sing to you. We are remembering, remembering. Yes, boru, I hope you hear my voice into your stanchions, the songs we sing to you, for we are remembering, yes, we are remembering. Yes, we are remembering, yes, we are remembering, we are remembering.
Speaker 2:I'm here with Caitlin Fine. She's the COO for Surfers for Climate. Katie, how did this event come about? The Water Women Campout we wanted to do it for two reasons.
Speaker 7:The first motivation was to really empower and engage women to be able to shift the culture of surfing. I think surfing can kind of be a bit of a selfish sport. We've all been in the lineup where a really good set comes through and there's someone on the wave and you're like, please fall off so I can get this wave.
Speaker 8:We're all guilty of it.
Speaker 7:And it's also not always a welcome space for women, and not even just for women depends on what surf craft you are. So to create care and protection for the ocean, I think we really need to focus on shifting the surf culture. So that was one motivation, and the second was just to engage our core audience. It's really interesting because surfing is a male-dominated sport, but at Surfers for Climate, the majority of our audience are women. So it's the women who are showing up, the women who are volunteering, hosting car park cinema nights for us, trivia nights for us, coming to our activations. So how do we engage these incredible women to dive deeper into the journey and feel empowered that they can make change and they can be the leaders?
Speaker 2:What role does the Water Women Camp Out play in welcoming people, women specifically, along the journey of climate activism?
Speaker 7:When we started the Water Women's Campout. We have a few different signature programs with Surface for Climate and our whole theory of change is we want to have different takeoff points on people's journey into protecting their country, protecting the environment, their journey into learning about climate change, advocating to protect the ocean and what they love, and because at Surfers for Climate, of course, everything is related to surfing. So we're like OK, no matter what craft you surfed or your ability, your takeoff points are going to be different. So maybe you are an environmental scientist and you are so deep in this, but you're like how can I engage on a political level and be really strategic in my advocacy? So that's where we meet them. Maybe someone's new on their journey, they just started surfing and they love the ocean and they're like what can I do? How can I learn more? So we really want to welcome all stages of people, wherever they're at, at their surfing journey or their environmental advocacy journey.
Speaker 2:What do surfers need to know about the state of climate right now? That is a really big question.
Speaker 7:We are absolutely at a critical point. The ocean is at boiling point and we're seeing more and more extreme weather events. You know, here in the Northern Rivers the ocean is so dirty still the erosion is the worst. I've seen it the 15 years I've lived in the Northern Rivers. Even yesterday we had a beautiful water ceremony with Auntie Lois Cook and there was so much foam and plastic on the beach. Our ocean's sick and we need to act now. We need to act fast and it affects all of us, but particularly surfers. Even look at the algae in South Australia right now. Surfers are getting really sick. The mass kills of the marine environment are just devastating and that's because the water's so warm.
Speaker 2:We're seeing mass marine heat waves, coral bleaching and, as surfers, we're seeing mass marine heat waves, coral bleaching and, as surfers, we're witnessing that every day. What role does community play in an event like this and being part of the puzzle to address our climate crisis?
Speaker 7:Collectively, we have the power. There are 2.5 million surfers in Australia and 85% of Australians live within 50 kilometres of the coastline. So imagine if we all got together as one community to protect the ocean. We can be a powerful force for change, One of my core reasons for starting the Water Women's Camp Out. Wella did an interesting study a couple of years ago that showed women in leadership positions, whatever career they work, whatever industry they're in, leads to greater environmental protection, and that makes me so proud. It's really the women who are showing up to protect the environment.
Speaker 9:I'm Coco Miller and I am 40 and I live in Byron Bay, so I've been involved in Surfers for Climate for a couple of years now. The one thing that's been a real standout over the weekend is that everyone has their different way of activating and whether it is as simple as take three pieces of plastic on the beach every time you go, or you're a practical person, you want to make stuff you're making oyster cages or you have time to write a letter to your MP about a campaign, or you can volunteer whichever and, however, or you're a doctor or a lawyer, like there is. For everyone there's a way in, and I think sometimes it's like being given permission as a woman to just take that and do. It sounds maybe a bit cliched, but it's really important to say and do out loud and encourage others because, yeah, it takes a whole village now we'll hear from zoe white.
Speaker 2:Zoe is a marine scientist and project manager for ozfish unlimited. She is the president of the richmond river keeper, a dive instructor, surfer, free diver and all-around water woman who led a workshop that she's going to tell us a little bit more about.
Speaker 10:So myself and my fellow colleagues ran a shellfish restoration workshop. So we all work for an organization called Ozfish, and Ozfish works on fish habitat restoration projects, so essentially any areas in our waterways which are crucial for fish to be able to survive, for them to go and get food from, for them to be able to breed, have habitat, do all of the things that they need to do. So there's a few key sort of habitats that we work on, but oyster reefs and shellfish reefs are one of the biggest and most important ones. So what we did for our workshop is, first of all, we just brought in the connection as to why I actually wanted to run that at the Surfers for Climate weekend and, as I thought about it, it just made a lot of sense and it kind of connected me back to my why and how I actually got involved with doing river restoration work in the first place, which actually came out of the 22 floods that we experienced here in the Northern Rivers, which left the water just in an absolutely putrid state for an insanely long time.
Speaker 10:I think it was like almost five months or something that I spent out of the water, and at that point in time I was also working for the local council and I was working on recovery, work which was confronting in itself.
Speaker 10:But I just kind of got down into this dark place and I was like, why am I so unhappy? And it took me so long to realise that it was because I'd spent so much time out of the water as well as everything else that was happening. So, even though I'd already been in that sort of marine science space doing bits and pieces, it connected me a lot more with okay, well, we've got a lot of issues coming out of our rivers here and there's actually a lot of tangible solutions and a lot of things that can be done on land and with people and with the community. So maybe this is my way to make sure that I don't have that long out of the water again. And you know, I'm sure that so many people like me were facing the same thing where, yeah, it's just you know, all of us, yeah, all of us who live in the area yeah.
Speaker 10:So it was nice to sort of realize that's where the workshop idea sort of came from, because I wanted to really connect the ocean loving people and help them understand why our rivers are so important. I think quite a few people do, but sometimes there is that sort of loss of connection and you know, here, especially in the Northern rivers where we have so many rivers, we really do need to have those communities of ocean people and river people merging if we're going to make a big impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so interesting and good on you for taking action, because not all of us follow those hunches you did, and look at the beautiful work that has spawned out of you choosing to take action. I'm curious about why you chose to build these oyster reef construction pieces and how they benefit local waterways.
Speaker 10:So I definitely wanted to do something really hands-on and tangible. I was lucky enough to also go to the first water women's camp out last year and I felt like I really got a kick out of the hands-on things that we could do last time and just mixing it up with some of the more reflective sort of things that are happening throughout the weekend. So I wanted to provide something that, yeah, could get everybody involved physically and also to be able to feel like they're giving back and and you know, we're not just sitting there talking about all of these confronting issues of how many things are going wrong and feeling hopeless, whereas when we actually get to do things like building these oyster baskets, you're getting the community involved and you actually get to be a part of the solution. So I really wanted to be able to bring that to the weekend and it's also just super fun.
Speaker 10:One of the parts of building them is you've got it's pretty much like a little staple gun thing, but it joins all of the little bits of metal together and I just noticed every person that I handed over that and when they did that part, they were like, wow, this is fun and this is really satisfying and there's bits of it as well, where you've got to, you know, like hammer in the metal, and I just feel like I could tell that everybody was feeling super empowered and just enjoying that hands on element, which is exactly what we wanted. But also it just connected back perfectly because what we've now built out of that workshop is actually going to be going right around the corner from where the weekend was held into the Richmond River and hopefully help to be a part of clearing up the river system and helping to fix the ecosystem around it as well, so that hopefully the surf can be cleaner for longer.
Speaker 2:That's so awesome. Can you speak a little bit to the explanation of what the baskets do once they're in the water?
Speaker 10:So what we built is essentially what's called a robust oyster basket. So it's a small metal cage and we filled it up with old oyster shell that was collected from our local river systems and from the Brunswick River as well. And what's going to happen is when we actually go and deploy them back into the waterway, then we're providing a structure for the baby oysters, which is called the spat, to actually have something to come and settle on. So they like settling on the old shell, so they'll be attracted to that, and then it's going to help to form new oyster reefs. And that process just continues year after year when the babies come in and they go on the. So they'll be attracted to that and then it's going to help to form new oyster reefs. And that process just continues year after year when the babies come in and they go on the old shells. And what happens with these metal baskets and these ROBS, which is our acronym for them, is that after a few years the metal around the outside will degrade and by that point oysters are clumping organisms and they'll have started to form their own reef again and from that it's just going to keep building with those babies year after year, so you're getting more oysters back in the river, which is great, but what's also happening with that is you're attracting all sorts of other organisms into that area. They are essential for fish food and there's all of the little crustaceans and other mollusks that live inside them. So fish absolutely love the structures.
Speaker 10:But the most important thing about our oyster reefs is that they actually help to filter through the water. So when you've got a lot of pollutants and issues in the waterway, they are an ecosystem engineer. They're like our little superhero and they're filter feeders. So they actually bring in a whole bunch of water to get their food source and in that process it does pick up things like nitrogen and other pollutants in the water and it will actually take it into its tissues and structure. So I feel bad for them that they take into these pollutants, but in that form they actually help to improve water quality. So the key stat which always shocks people is how much water they actually filter through in a day. So it's actually around the 150 litres mark, which is insane, especially when you're just thinking about your drink bottle size, and that's 150 times that and that's just one large oyster. So when you've got these reefs, which have hundreds thousands on them, then they're doing an incredible job of really improving that water quality.
Speaker 2:What are you taking away from the Water Women Camp Out this year?
Speaker 10:My big takeaway is that I need to spend more time enjoying what I love and what I'm fighting to protect. I do feel like I am somebody that constantly gets caught up in do more, do more. There's so much to do. Just got to rush, rush, rush. If we're going to fix the problem, and there were just so many bits and pieces to take out of the weekend which constantly made me reflect and go. Actually, I'm going to be able to do this better and for longer If I slow down. I go diving, I go surfing when I need to to go. This is what I'm doing it for.
Speaker 2:Will you please tell me your name, your age and where you've come from to be here today?
Speaker 11:My name is Kate McMahon, I'm 54 and I travel from Pottsville today.
Speaker 2:Can you tell me about your professional role and how it relates to the water room and camp out?
Speaker 11:Well, I've been involved in the surfing industry for about 25 years, started out in magazines and then still writing for magazines, always creative with agencies and things like that, and then branched away from surfing a little bit, but surfing's always been the root of my passions and now I'm surfing Australia's National Integrity Manager, so a very purposeful role that definitely ties back to what we're trying to do here at this Water. Women's Campout.
Speaker 2:What made you come this weekend.
Speaker 11:I recently moved to the area only about a year and a half ago and I've got a group of really strong girlfriends, but I just felt that I needed to even branch out to more of my tribe and more of herpist-led connection with other women. I was really craving that, and so I came here alone, and I came here to connect and make friends, and I did exactly that.
Speaker 2:It was beautiful. That's awesome. Will you speak a little bit, Kate, to Surfing Australia's growing engagement with women and girls.
Speaker 11:So newly joined to Surfing Australia. I'm really stoked at the intention that they're putting behind women's participation and the growth of encouraging women from the grassroots all the way through to Olympians, because I think it's really important that there's not a default to think of surfing as a man's sport, which I feel that from my experience of growing up around surfing from the 80s, 90s, early 2000s it was a real default, and the equality for women in surfing goes way beyond pay parity, way beyond pay parity. There's so many more nuances to that and I think it's just about stripping away how it was and understanding that women have a place in there too, and how we see surfing and how we see the lifestyle and how we see how we want behavior. It could be different and so, if it is, let's explore that, can you?
Speaker 2:speak to some of those inequities for people who are listening, who feel like maybe there is gender parity. This is a redundant conversation. What do you have to say to that?
Speaker 11:Yeah, firstly, I'd like to really interrogate and explore and be curious about the concept of one day to decide a world champion. And let's just ask the question do we think that's based on a female endocrine system? That's just one example. I personally don't think it is as exciting as that was. We are so up and down with our hormones and this isn't something to be eye-rolled about and it's not something to be huffed about. It's something to to embrace and actually go okay. Is this fair? Is this fair that someone in a different part of their cycle because we've got superpowers at one end and we've got maybe melting on the couch at the other right, and it's just maybe it's a fairer process if there's a more even opportunity throughout. It's never going to be even, it's never going to be equal for women against each other, even in terms terms of that, but at least a one day feels very abrupt and it's an acknowledgement that men's and women's bodies tend to be different.
Speaker 11:Yeah, isn't it, yeah, and just let's get the.
Speaker 2:That's why we need female leaders on the decision making hierarchy at the surfing industry like you, I've been involved in the surf industry for a couple of decades and I've seen a lot of things change and the Water Women Campout is such like a hopeful spark that maybe a young surfing me couldn't have imagined the joy of being with all women around surfing. Is it like that for you?
Speaker 11:Oh, my goodness, I can't even imagine this. Back when I was younger, I only started surfing in my sort of mid-20s-ish right, so I wasn't even super young, but I was just hungry and hunting for anyone that would join me in that endeavours. And, to be honest, the tribe I found at that time were more into it for the showing of it and the image of it, which is fine as well, because it was really exciting time than actually doing the thing, and so I wanted to do the thing and I had no one to really do it in a meaningful way with. So, yeah, this is like mind blowing. The electricity that you feel with the like-mindedness and the wanting to make a better world is pretty inspiring.
Speaker 2:Lucy, you're the organizer and the brain mother of this event. Can you tell me about why this event exists?
Speaker 12:I feel like, even though I am the organizer, the event and this community of water women already existed and feels like it needed a place to gather or wanted a place to gather and I've just been lucky enough to be the person that is holding that space but it really feels like its own organism that has all of its own energy and creativity and I'm just trying to keep up with all of that.
Speaker 12:But I was really inspired by an event that a really good friend put on, which which is called Swellness, and it was put on by Jed and Vaughn, who run Ain't that Swell? And they hosted it down on Dunguddy country, where I was living at the time, and it felt like a different kind of event to anything that I'd been to before, and what I loved about it is that it married together the intersection of everything we love about surfing and surf culture and brought together people who are adventurous and love being in nature and love connecting to each other in a campsite and are also really wanting to put a lot of their energy into bettering themselves or the people around them or the planet. And Swellness was that it was a group of 100 people and we came together and we all share similar interests and there were workshops and some group activities, but then it also was just a celebration of everything that's in that culture.
Speaker 2:What is the value, in the world that we live in right now, of coming together in person? How is it different to be together on country, face-to-face, and not just be communicating through a digital space?
Speaker 12:I think there's so much that happens in the spaces between, and it's in those moments of making a cup of tea with someone or sitting next to someone and weaving or opening up in a way that's really vulnerable, that we're able to because we feel safe to. And there's gatherings happening all over the world. There's people singing and dancing and connecting and that's how we've always lived and I feel like, after a few years of being locked indoors and social media and technology in general, there's a real craving for community and connection and, no matter what's happening in the outside world, no matter how hard things are, if we come together and we have that connection and community, then we have everything that we could ever need.
Speaker 2:What have you seen emerge from this gathering in the past and also what are you seeing crystallize this year?
Speaker 12:I'm seeing women in my community who already empowered, taking steps to lean into places that they may not have lent into in the past, and that is I'm seeing that in so many different ways. Right now, behind us is one of my really good friends, emma, who is a nurse running the emergency department in Kempsey Hospital and she's running a ocean survival skills workshop, which she created for the water women camp out last year.
Speaker 6:So by having this space and this platform for people to step into and seeing people step up to it, I'm Emma, I'm 34 and I actually came from Red Bluff, wa, to be here today, but I do live in Crescent Head currently. Today I ran an ocean water survival program. I've been working as a nurse for 10 years and I've been in the water, surfing, freediving, having fun for 20 years. I guess it's just a blend of all the things I like. It's actually Katie and Lucy that asked me to be a part of this and thanks to them, I'm stepping a little bit out of my lane and stepping into something that I actually really am excited by and, yeah, I feel like I can sort of bridge the gap between health professionals and ocean lovers.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and you do it so well. What's one skill we could all invest a little time in to create a safer beach, ocean, coastal community.
Speaker 6:I would say get really comfortable with your own breath and invest into a freediving course, because that, for me, has helped me in all areas of life and I really can't praise it enough. So if you're comfortable in your own breath, if you're the patient or the helper, then that's still going to benefit you. So, getting really comfortable with using your entire lung capacity and controlling your heart rate through your breath, that's really helpful In the high pressure moments in life. In and out of the water it's really helpful. Another really helpful skill is obviously quality compressions, because that's actually manually pumping the blood around. If you can do that well, then that's going to help the patient through the whole journey. When you say compressions, you mean CPR, cpr, yep, yep. So yeah, one third of the chest, 100 to 120 beats per minute Find that song.
Speaker 6:That is that rate. What is it for you? Well, today we played a few of the classic pop songs, because they get stuck into your head like an earworm. But I guess Saving a Life is globally the song Staying Alive. Right, staying Alive, that's it. Yeah, I always do that. I change the lyrics of songs so easily.
Speaker 2:What were the other skills you went through? I didn't get to stay.
Speaker 6:for the whole workshop. We went through the algorithm, so the doctor's ABCD, and then I just embedded a few of my fun facts that I've learned.
Speaker 6:What's the algorithm I've never heard of that the algorithm is danger response, send for help, airway, breathing, compressions, defibrillation and we use that approach because often in the spicier moments in life, you'll forget everything you've ever learnt in life and that's why we have the algorithms, because they're a bunch of protocols embedded in a really simple way that when things are hot, you can go back to that.
Speaker 6:So we started with danger, and that was some rescue manoeuvres and how to get people out of the water, how to keep yourself safe, how to approach a situation and actually reflect on how you are entering a crisis moment, because that's really important. You often can bring chaos to the chaos already and, yeah, we went through how to hold an airway open, some of our own breath work for the free diving things and how to re-oxygenate quickly, especially with a surfing focus and a free diving focus. We went through cardiac compressions and also extensive bleeding and we talked about defibrillation and a bit of brainwave stuff and epilepsy. And then the environmental factors, such as like bites and stings and other common issues that ocean lovers face, and a few myth-busting things, like the classics peeing on your friends when you get stung.
Speaker 2:Not a thing, not a thing?
Speaker 6:not a thing, unfortunately, but um, it's cute hot water. Hot water is the go-to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as hot as you can handle we had to learn that the hard way when dave got hit by a stingray oh, stingrays are 10 out of 10 pain.
Speaker 6:It's a nasty one. We didn't know it at the time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Good to know.
Speaker 6:Hot water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is the most dangerous thing or threat that you see from ocean goers Like what do you encounter the most as someone who works in ED, unfortunately drowning.
Speaker 6:So in the last year there's been 323 people die from drowning and it's a really hard one because you've got to be so quick and attentive and this is why it's so helpful to give the knowledge to the people who are, you know, potentially right next to that person. And yeah, once you end up with a bit of water in your lungs, it's it's a very quick thing. So first aid courses are really helpful and that's why we do them yearly to refresh your knowledge, because it's a muscle that you have to keep fit. Hopefully some people can take what they've learned today and share it to their friends and family and practice how to keep an airway open and all these things. And, yeah, hopefully we made it a little bit fun for it to actually stick into people's brain.
Speaker 2:One of the really outstanding things about the Water Women Weekend has been the breadth of ages present. One of the running themes is about fostering cross-generational communication. Dr Krista Comer, professor, author and co-founder of the Institute for Women Surfers, flew in from the US and she held a workshop about how to communicate cross-generationally, because it can be so difficult and sometimes it feels like we're speaking different languages when we're communicating across generations, but these kinds of in-person events allow for connection with people that we might not have the opportunity to foster conversation with otherwise. So one of the big takeaways for me is about intergenerational communication and creating opportunities to connect with like-minded people that are both older and younger than myself, and the kind of richness and resilience a movement can carry when there's this breadth of not only experience and wisdom, but also creativity and energy. These are gifts that bubble out of us, often in different seasons of our lives. Both are crucial to a healthy ecosystem, fostering growth and change.
Speaker 13:My name is Stella, I'm 25. I've travelled from Wollongong, originally grew up in Sydney, but, yeah, living in Wollongong at the moment.
Speaker 2:And why have you come to the Water Room and camp out this weekend?
Speaker 13:I came here because I wanted to connect with women. I came here last year and I found it such an incredible space to be where you get to be around just women for the first time. I mean, having come from a family where I had three brothers and spent so much time around men, it's so amazing to be in a women-majority space for a little while. To be in a place that's so surf-centred is fantastic. You know, I get a little bit of that where I live, but to just see people that are continuing to live their lives with surfing, just as the thread that links everybody here, or water experiences linking everybody here, because that's not really that common In sort of the greater society, you'll meet lots of different people and you'll have all these different connections, but here we just all get to connect on surfing and we get to have these conversations that we have with other you know, civilians.
Speaker 13:I guess you could say, and you have to like you'll talk in surf idioms and whatever, and people just don't understand you. But here you can just talk and just make noises and whatever and people understand you. So it's a spot where, yeah, this camp you just it's. It's a beautiful place to come to and connect with other people and just shake those foundations of habit that we all get stuck into, away from the ocean, you know.
Speaker 2:What do you get from being here in person that you can't get through a digital space?
Speaker 13:I myself don't subscribe to a lot of digital spaces, mostly because I have, in the past and throughout my teenage years, been online a lot and I've just learned it's not a space that is conducive to my happiness.
Speaker 13:You know, slowly been unsubscribing to all the different social medias and I've removed myself from Instagram the big one, sort of over the past like six months a year, and while I definitely have my moments of feeling that FOMO and feel like I'm missing out and like everyone around having an amazing time or doing these amazing things, I've had to remove myself from that because I there's just all these other little holes that I'll fall into if I'm trying to like balance that walk, and so, because I've done that, I do feel that more loneliness and that on my little island and not knowing where these other women are and I, then it impacts my ability to be inspired and to be able to get things done and to like continue down that path that I really love being on, and so coming to a place like this is just what re-centers me.
Speaker 13:Like I said, being in here in person is so incredible because it's a feeling that you can't get through digital spaces at all. Like you may, you can see everything online, you can see the images, you can hear the talks, you can do all that stuff, but just feeling what it's like to be around people where there's you know, women off in the corner just doing some stretches, there's children running around and always within like a short you know short distance of a helpful hand. There's quiet. It's so calm and quiet here that, like at any moment you can hear the ocean and you can hear the birds. It's all the different feelings that you get that you just can't get aside from being in a place.
Speaker 2:Beautifully said, Stella. We live in a time where a lot of people feel like feminism is no longer relevant. It's not applicable. What's the value of having women-only women-centered spaces, specifically within the context of surf culture, for you as a young?
Speaker 13:person. I get that there's backlash against saying well, we need to be bringing the genders together or the groups together, or the backgrounds together, and that's the goal in the end. We want to be able to bring these two people together, but women and minority groups have had so many years and so so much time of not being given opportunity, not being given a voice, and so that means we we do need to allocate this space for women to get comfortable amongst speaking again, and we need to get comfortable about sharing our ideas and admitting our fears and talking about the curiosities that we have linking all of those things together. And this space has to exist in order for women to feel comfortable enough and be supported to the degree where we can advocate for ourselves, and we need to be advocating for ourselves in order to advocate for each other.
Speaker 14:My name's Tilly, I'm 25 and I came from Mornington Peninsula in Victoria, on Bunurong land.
Speaker 2:And why did you come this weekend?
Speaker 14:I came last year. I guess we haven't had the opportunity down in Victoria particularly to have these kind of gatherings before last year. Since last year there's been these amazing like Highline Women's Surf Fest and Surfing Vic also put on one, but I hadn't had the opportunity. Like where I come from, there's not a whole lot of women in the water, and so to have women from all over the country in one spot together sharing their stories brought me here last year and I guess it's the exact same reason to be back here again this year year and I guess it's the exact same reason to be back here again this year.
Speaker 2:And how did last year land for you and how did it change how you wanted to engage with the weekend this year?
Speaker 14:Hugely, I guess I've had a huge year.
Speaker 14:I ended up now I'm working for Surfers, for Climate, so, but from yes, definitely, yeah.
Speaker 14:So I hadn't realized before last year I feel like I'd had all these feelings about how surfing and the environment was so interlinked, but it's so like dichotomous. In the community where I'm from, the surfers, generally speaking, aren't particularly environmentally inclined or partaking any of those kind of issues or actions down our way, and to have that come together, particularly like with women being the thread that binds that together here, was like such a revelation for me, which was cool. And also to know that there's other people that felt the exact same way I did, whereas I felt I had a few friends who felt the same at home, but not like a whole community, and so I guess, yeah, that changed everything for me with the work I do now and the community that I'm a part of at home now, which is like growing. I think there's like three and a half thousand members that are part of, like the women's surf crew down there, which is massive, like I didn't have that, didn't see it growing up, and so, yeah, to be more involved in that has been amazing.
Speaker 2:A lot of people now talk about feminism as irrelevant and not really necessary anymore. Do you feel that way as a young person?
Speaker 14:Not at all. Listening to Krista speak, and particularly with Beck last year, I think it's more relevant than ever. In the world that we're facing every day, particularly overseas, it's easy for me as a young white woman to think that I've got it pretty okay and to not feel the need to understand that that's not the same for other people. But I've got so many people, even in my community at home, which is typically very white and conservative, but we've got like quite a large First Nations population that are totally discriminated against because of our council's policies and all of these different things at home and obviously that largely impacts women in those communities with access to health care and all, yeah, all these issues. So I think, no, it's more relevant than ever. And I think it's more relevant than ever because people are thinking that it's irrelevant, like that is like a double-edged sword and it actually stops, stops any progress towards equality in that sense.
Speaker 2:I loved the panel that you sat on with Dr Krista Comer an international approach to relationality and getting engaged with activism. How was it for you being part of an age spectrum in that space?
Speaker 14:Really actually kind of confronting. I don't know that I've particularly talked or thought that much about intergenerationality in the water before and maybe that's because, like, if I'm seeing a lot of women in the water, they're generally younger and I guess that's why I was like I had to really sit with when I had the call with Krista to talk about the panel, like why that was and particularly in our community, like why the women who are often older, who are learning to surf, are so ostracized, like we have so much of that and I can see, like you know, it was actually interesting to reflect on how I've potentially partaken in that, especially when I was younger. So I had actually I called my mother and had a big chat with her about it, because she's just, she's nearly 60 and he's going through a big change in her life there, so to to have that chat about intergenerationality and relations between people and how, by segregating ourselves from those relationships, like we're missing out on such a big community. Yeah, it was amazing but also scary. You were amazing.
Speaker 2:What are you going to take away from the weekend this year?
Speaker 14:For me personally. I love being able to come up here and it's been one of those things where I think I feel like this community exists up here and it's been easy to imagine that that's the only place it can exist. I think New South Wales has always been a bit of a hub for these events, so I think it's really important for me to not just prioritise, like this being the space where that can exist, but particularly like Victoria, south Australia, like I've spent a lot of time in Tasmania because my partner studied down there and his friends are down there like that's where those relationships can exist too and these kind of conversations can happen, not just in this one space.
Speaker 8:My name is Bryony, I am 30 and I have come only from Lennox Head, but I'm actually from the UK, so pretty far I'm quite new to the life of a water woman. I'm not like someone who grew up by the coast and surfed and swam and has this big connection, and it's been since lockdown. I moved to the coast in the UK and I started finding a tribe there, but I left and I've moved around a lot and I've recently arrived in the northern rivers. I'm also an oceans campaigner. I really have been like craving great connections and particularly with women, and finding the right kind of people and I just knew, yeah, I was told about this within two weeks of moving to Australia and I've been waiting patiently for six months.
Speaker 2:What have the takeaways been for you?
Speaker 8:Just that really everyone has a different role to play. You can feel the overwhelm of trying to save the whole ocean or the land or whatever it is that you're really passionate about. If you're a creative, you can write a song. You know I'm a strategist, I can write a strategy and people give so much at a really localized level. I'm not really a local person ever like. I've moved around my whole life and I've never really understood that kind of grassroots connection that people have to place and country and sea, and I think this weekend's really taught me to come closer and not feel so overwhelmed by the really, really big stuff that's happening and actually just build special things with special people.
Speaker 4:I'm known as Aunty Lila around here. I've been in this area quite a few years. In the last 35 or something. We've made community school and community garden, community radio, many community things. I really want to honour the women coming together here right now, all the sisters surfing sisters, I call them. They're with the flow. There's something that everyone I've met, not just because my son's a surfer too, but in this tuning in it's such a.
Speaker 4:To me surfing's a spiritual discipline. You don't try and control and compete. You know you can do well in anything, whether it's gymnastics or you know whatever, or running or sports, but this one is you, tuning into you. And where I love at Brunswick in the mornings I used to camp down there sometimes and watch the surfers or the workers coming in in the early morning, get out of their trucks, they look and they tune in, they slow down and they feel the ocean and they feel the waves. Where are the waves going? They tune into the water, they listen. It's one of the incredible things that I feel and I counsel a lot of people around the world that if someone's been a surfer, they've got good listening skills.
Speaker 4:They tune in and listen to the mother ocean. Where's it going. Then on the board you're not saying, oh you know, wave go this way, wave go that way. You can't do control stuff and you can't be thinking about the past or the future. You're in the moment and it's like when you go, it's like when you just tune in. The wave takes you home. It's bigger than you and it's like to know that there's a great spirit that's bigger than my mind, wanting it to look good or to do whatever. The little, tiny mind. It's a useful tool, but it's the master.
Speaker 4:This is one of the most beautiful spiritual disciplines. The ocean's the biggest teacher. So we hear now woman, the next flow, mother, womb, wisdom, work. It's like what's needed on the planetary play today is mother's compassion, but mother's compassion needs to arise in every human being on the planet right now. This is not a's compassion, but mother's compassion needs to arise in every human being on the planet right now. This is not a gender issue, but those that have a womb and can feel what's true. And you take care of the little ones, like you take care of your kids and this sort of thing, and you go with the flow. I take pregnant women, and where's the best place to walk them by if they're here, is we go for a walk by the ocean if they're in labor, because the waves are coming in and the waves are going out. It's a really beautiful way to come into your natural rhythms. We're made of water. Remember who you are. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:Remember who you are, go with the flow may I ask how old you are in years in earth? Years in earth, in Earth years, if you like.
Speaker 4:If you like, in Earth years, I'm entering my. I'm closer to my 77th year, wow.
Speaker 2:Wow, you've seen some change.
Speaker 4:Quite a bit darling, Quite a bit of changes.
Speaker 2:Are you hopeful for?
Speaker 4:where we're headed. I am, as the world, the structure of our play. It's become very depressing in many ways. I actually happened to be Australia's youth representative at the United Nations when I was 18. And I walked in and I saw this big rock. We shall turn our swords into plowshares. We cannot do war anymore, and this was the times after the wars. We've got to have a united nation so we can't do these individual fights. I believed it was possible.
Speaker 4:I now know that that's been hijacked by powers that be that right now say yeah, well, war's okay if you pay me enough money. There's a domination of the money, god, there are symbols, there are signs and somehow I'm not hopeful at all about many of the systems surviving. I do see the possibility of all sorts of things Indigenous and children have dreams about waters changing. What I do feel hopeful about is the space of when we come together in good company, like that space that touched me then many years ago in the United Nations.
Speaker 4:And then we went, a thousand of us, youth from around the world, to an armoury in the United Nations and then we went, a thousand of us, used, from around the world, to an armoury in the Bronx and we gave things from our culture, a song, a dance or whatever. There was a few of them in different ways of prayers. But then we had a circle and then we said and we come from here, from far away, you know, like the songs. And then we sang together and came into the circle and spiralled and there was one moment, as we started going around and you're looking at the eyes in each other in this and there was one moment where, in a flash and I remember it now it's more than half a century ago is that there is only one God, many different doorways to the temple of love we live in.
Speaker 1:My name's Diane Tucker and I'm 71 years of age and I've come down from Mianjin, from Brisbane, to be here at this amazing Water Women's Campout. I came last year as well and I've been following Surfers for Climate because of the amazing work that they do. I'm so impressed, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:Can you speak about your commitment to activism when that spark landed for you?
Speaker 1:I've thought about this a lot because of being here. I think that it began when I was a child. I remember being really aware of the inequality between men and women and girls and boys, and of racism, before I knew the words for patriarchy or racism. And then, as I got older, I got involved in the disability area and was part of a movement, I suppose, to deinstitutionalise people with disabilities in Western Australia.
Speaker 1:And then later on, I worked in the domestic violence sector in Queensland when there were no laws to protect women. The police had no laws that they could use to protect women and domestic violence was just seen as something that happened behind closed doors and in fact we had a campaign called Break the Silence in the 80s. Then there were big changes in bringing in the domestic violence action we used to support women to escape from violent homes and go into refuges and then move into the community. And then later on I worked as a psychologist, seeing people in all sorts of situations, and I guess I always knew about climate change. But towards about 2018, it started to really dawn on me that we were passing tipping points and I decided to become more active in the climate space, and then that's just kind of grown over the last six years.
Speaker 2:Can you speak to the green grounds please?
Speaker 1:The green grounds. So part of my climate activism is I've been doing some direct action, which involves being civilly disobedient and breaking some of the laws in order to bring attention to a climate issue or you know something that really needs changing. So there was a group of 14 of us who decided as a last resort really we were so frustrated that the Queensland government were still approving massive new coal mines, like two years after the International Energy Agency and others had said there's no room for any new fossil fuel projects in the world. They weren't listening to us, so 14 of us decided we'd go to them. So we went into Parliament, into the public gallery which sits up above the chamber, in question time and we unfurled lightweight banners that we brought in that were about a metre and a half long and they all had messages like coal and gas burnt anywhere kills everywhere. Stop licensing new coal and gas.
Speaker 1:So all those messages around stopping coal and gas. And then we chanted stop coal, stop gas. And it took them about three minutes before they removed all of us from the chamber. Eventually, a couple of days later, the CIB tracked us all down and we were all charged with an archaic law called disturbing the legislature and the press the Murdoch press heard about it and we were reported in their paper as the Green Grands disrupt parliament, and so every report after that we were known as the Green Grands and that our average age was 68 at that point. It later came down a little bit when a couple of younger ones were tracked down, but basically we were all women over the age of 60. We had three men, but the men were not really given much airspace.
Speaker 2:You were on a really lovely panel with Dr Krista Comer yesterday, an intergenerational panel on activism and relationality. A lot of us I guess I'm in the mid-age category now, not in the young age category anymore but we're so hungry for connecting with elder women who are still connected to life, who are still growing and staying engaged with the world and you obviously are, and that's super inspiring. I wonder if the opposite is also true, if, as an older woman, if being in touch with and connecting with younger women is valuable for you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, I see it as really mirroring what you've said. You know it's about being older to be able to know the next generation and have the young women who is future it is as well and for us to be able to work together and, like we can, bring the experience that we have and support younger women. But younger women bring that energy and knowledge of the world as it is today and keep us connected to the world as well. I see it as a really reciprocal thing.
Speaker 1:We had, you know, the School Strikers for Climate. It was a beautiful group of young grade 12s in Brisbane who did a strike. They did what they call it a study in outside Parliament House towards the end of last year and we sat with them every day. We drove their desks in and picked their desks up afterwards because we were able to facilitate that. And we had a conversation with the 17 and 18-year-olds who said you know, as they move out, it would be really great to have a stable influence of older people there who could just support all the young ones coming through who are learning about climate action. And I guess it's also about making people feel safe. You know we can, we can. We really want to facilitate a safe world. We want the world to be a safe place for our grandchildren and our children and care about the younger generation coming through and look after young women. So we really need you, guys.
Speaker 2:And we need you too. What are you taking away from the weekend?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I think what I'm taking away is an absolute experience of what we're just talking about. I think that the interconnections between all of the women here has been absolutely beautiful, like there's so much that's happened in terms of sharing of experiences and thoughts and feelings, and across generations. So we've got some women here who look like they're really early 20s or so, and then others 30, 40, 50, 60. I'm the oldest, I think 71. And everybody's just joined together. It really gives me hope and inspiration that we can come together as a community, because it is. We need community. We need that cross-generational community, yeah, and the patriarchy and the government depend on us being separated.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you why community is such an important piece of the puzzle of making change.
Speaker 1:I think, because the people in power gain power from separating us, from keeping us all fragmented. If we're acting in isolation, then none of us ever have the numbers or the power to actually change the system, and there's a lot of fear or prejudice, I think, and bias across generations that stops us from acting together and that's actually maximised and exploited by the people in power and the fossil fuel industry. I mean, it was only last week the CEO of Woodside blamed young people for the climate crisis by spending on Temu and having things delivered, so that they're causing the climate crisis. And there's a bias too towards younger people from older people who say they're not pulling their weight. So this is not true. If we can all come together and work together, then we can build the numbers and the power to keep this going, to make a difference.
Speaker 2:Time is precious. Thanks for spending some of yours listening with us today. Our editor this season is the multi-talented ben jake alexander. The soundtrack was composed by shannon soul carol, with additional tunes by dave and ben. We'll be continuing today's conversation on instagram, where we're at water people podcast, and you can subscribe to our very infrequent newsletter to get book recommendations, questions we're pondering behind the scenes, glimpses into recording the podcast and more via our website, waterpeoplepodcastcom.
