Waterpeople Podcast
Stories about the aquatic experiences that shape us.
Listen with Lauren L. Hill and Dave Rastovich as they talk story with some of the most adept waterfolk on the planet.
Waterpeople is a gathering place for our global ocean community to dive into the themes of watery lives lived well: ecology, adventure, community, activism, science, egalitarianism, inclusivity, meaningful play, a sense of humour. And, surfing, of course.
Waterpeople Podcast
Brenden 'Margo' Margieson: Renaissance Man
Every mid-aged Aussie bloke's favourite surfer? That's Margo.
Widely recognised as the first paid freesurfer - Brenden 'Margo' Margieson is famed almost as much for his gentle demeanour as his explosive power surfing.
We traced some of his undulating journey through a surfing life's highs and lows. From early days being propelled by legendary filmmaker Jack McCoy, to unexpectedly winning a major contest against World Tour pros, Brendan's career defied conventional paths. His distinctive "pendulum" surfing style - flowing with gravity rather than muscling through - contrasted dramatically with his contemporaries and continues to influence surfing aesthetics today.
Perhaps most inspiring is Brendan's midlife renaissance. After stepping away from surfing for half a decade, he's back in the water fresh enthusiasm. Now in his fifties, Margo is experiencing an unlikely career resurgence: complete with new sponsorships and a growing social media presence. Throughout it all, his parallel passion for bird watching reveals a sensitive man who finds joy in careful observation, whether it's reading a wave or identifying rare species.
Ready to hear how one of surfing's most beloved figures navigates the balance between risk, responsibility, and rediscovery? This episode offers wisdom for anyone seeking to maintain their passions through life's changing seasons.
...
Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich
Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast
...
Get monthly musings and behind the scenes content from the podcast by subscribing to our newsletter.
You'll get water-centric reading and listening recommendations, questions worth asking, and ways to take action for the wellbeing of Planet Ocean delivered straight to your inbox.
You can stream every Waterpeople episode from your desk.
I got smoked on the takeoff on one and we got pushed really close to the rocks and it was pretty much at the bottom of the earth. It was just such a remote location at the time and I went I'm too, too old for this and I was like you're the young free surfer coming up and I was like it was almost like passing on the baton to you, sort of thing, which is weird. I'm like I think you know I've just felt like I had this massive responsibility of I've got a child. Now I can't be doing this raucous, dangerous sort of stuff where it never even occurred to me doing that. I sort of look at that as one of the turning points in life where I felt like I had responsibility.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the aquatic experiences that shape who we become. Back on land. I'm your host, lauren Hill, joined by my partner, dave Rastovich. Here we get to talk story with some of the most interesting and adept waterfolk on the planet. We acknowledge the Bundjalung Nation, the traditional custodians of the land and waters where we work and play, who have cared for this sea country for tens of thousands of years. Respect and gratitude to all First Nations people, including elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2:This season is supported by Patagonia, whose purpose-driven mission is to use business to save our home planet. Today we're in conversation with Brendan Margison, widely considered the first paid free surfer. Margo, as he's known, is famed for the juxtaposition of his gentle demeanor on land and his explosive power surfing. Margo is featured in a dozen or so surf movies, including the Green Iguana, the Sons of Fun and the Billabong Challenge. In 1998, australia's Surfing Life magazine called Margo quote the best free surfer in the world. After a handful of years mostly away from the ocean, margot is currently in the midst of a midlife renaissance, with a surging social media presence and a slew of sponsorship deals. He works part time as an ecologist and has reclaimed his place as pretty much every Aussie bloke's favorite surfer. Its place as pretty much every Aussie bloke's favorite surfer have you ever had a time when you were just in?
Speaker 2:the right place at exactly the right moment.
Speaker 3:Yes, when we met, oh, that's nice. Yeah, I didn't expect that one, did you?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't. I was thinking about how I am terrible at thinking up like specific stories on the spot. I'm really bad at that. But I was just thinking about how, every time you get a set wave that comes to you like you're sitting in the water and from far, far in the depths of the ocean comes this set wave, and when you're in the right place, it's just like oh my God, I get to. You know I get to go, i're in the right place. It's just like oh my god, I get to, you know I get to go, I'm in the right place. And then there's usually someone there who's like no, that's yeah, sometimes the case.
Speaker 3:But I think, in regards to this conversation with brendan, for me actually it was being in relation to him as a young grom and coming into my young adulthood at a time where he was having a young family and sort of stepping back a little bit from being a wandering surfer that was paid just to wander, essentially, and I was just really lucky to be there at that point where he, I think, was saying no to some trips because he had a young family to raise and I was, you know, 20, 21 years old, just saying yes to everything. So I actually had in relation to him who I think has incredible timing, like Brendan's life has just got so many amazing moments that were just serendipitous and incredibly graceful. Even though he's a really funny kind of clumsy guy on land, he's incredible in the water, as an ocean man. He's just amazing. So that, yeah, really makes me think of that kind of timing.
Speaker 2:I often hear him spoken about by our friends and your friends with such reverence for who he is. Why is that Like? Why does he resonate so deeply with so many men in particular? I grew up in the States, sort of outside of the bubble of influence and maybe at the wrong time, so I wasn't really aware of his story as much as if I'd grown up here. So I'm really curious why, Margot? Why does his story resonate so widely?
Speaker 3:I think at the very centre of it is that if you've ever had an interaction with him you realise he's just a really, really humble, kind of self-deprecating kind guy. But then you go and see him in the water and he's capable of things that nobody else can do. He's just a super unique way of surfing and reading waves. Zoo, he's just super unique way of surfing and reading waves. So there's that, and I think that fits really neatly into the whole Australian cheering for the underdog sort of tall poppy thing, where it's like the more successful you are, the sort of less cool you are in Australia. I think it's really an interesting sort of paradox. His personality fits right into that whole celebrated character in Australia of the really humble, successful person.
Speaker 3:So, it's sort of like you know, the more successful you are in Australia, the kind of the less cool you are, and if you have the certainly when I was a kid if you have success in the world but you still have all your mates like you're still humble and just kind of the same as everyone else, then you are actually really, really cool. So Brendan's kind of like the epitome of that, where he could do things in the water that no one else could do but he was so humble and just a quiet achiever in a way on land that made him just feel always relatable you never felt like he was up high on this pedestal that nobody else could reach so different than the masculinity that I saw growing up from surfers of a similar era.
Speaker 2:Maybe you know little younger, but like the andy irons, for example, and the, the bravado and the like, just intense, not necessarily agroness, but just like claiming the bigness of the personality.
Speaker 3:Well, it's funny because that you say andy, because andy was really similar to brandon in a lot of ways where he was so good to his friends and his mates and he was actually really humble but when it came game time to be a world champion and stuff, he was so confident that he appeared otherwise.
Speaker 3:But actually everyday life he was such a just a relatable guy to lots of people.
Speaker 3:I saw that around the world with him, which was really admirable.
Speaker 3:But brendan's deal was something where it's kind of illustrated, where he won a contest and everyone was so happy, like everyone he beat in that contest in Indonesia were just so stoked that he beat them because he's just so. He's just a lovable guy and for me as a kid growing up in like the 90s, late 90s, and seeing the world of men being defined by popular characters like Rambo and Arnold Schwarzenegger and that kind of world and surfing was full of that I grew up surfing a spot where there was fights in the water every single swell. You know, brendan was just the opposite of all that and I think that is another really important part of his story is that he, even though he's a super humble guy, he was confident enough in himself and his own character to just be a, softly spoken, kind person in a world that was very different to that and I think that's just continued and that's why, yeah, people continue to admire him and admire his surfing and he's just a really lovable guy.
Speaker 1:Just a full bird head's eye Every time we walk. We don't even get far in the bush.
Speaker 3:You never get to the waterfall or to the lookout no, just the side of the truck and everybody's going. What the fuck are they doing?
Speaker 1:Just sit down and go. Poor thingy-pilly. He's going. I've been looking for a mate for so long and I'm like, oh sorry mate, did you hear that one over there? Was that a?
Speaker 3:response? Yeah, that might have been a response. Yeah, so the morning Brendan was coming.
Speaker 3:I can just remember how sometimes Margs would be a little uncomfortable when people would pull out cameras to video things. And he came at a time in surfing where it was just the surfing that was videoed, it was none of the other stuff. You know, now everyone's like videoing them, making toast and coffee in the morning and every other thought of the day. It's just ridiculous in a way. But for brendan and I like especially him it was just the surfing. And then it started to creep in where people had digital cameras with microphones and they'd record all kinds of things. And I remember seeing Brendan be a little uncomfortable with that stuff.
Speaker 3:And so I felt like when he was coming over to our place, that in order to talk about his love of birds and bird watching and ecology, we would have to do that kind of while we're doing it, because I feel like he would be uncomfortable talking about it.
Speaker 3:Because you know, know, it's not like the coolest thing in the universe to be a birder to some people, you know, it's like it's a niche interest in some ways, but you just see how lit up he is about it, and with his partner Lorena, she's just such a ray of light as well, and they both share this love of observing the bird world in Australia, which is so central to life here. You really notice it. It's like even in the suburbs it's just full of bird song. And so when he arrived, instantly he was this. He had his ears up and was like pointing into the forest, saying oh, listen to that, something, something or other war, blah, blah, blah blah. I didn't know any of the names and I could just see how lit up he. So I was so stoked to get the recorder out and pretend like I was recording the birds, but actually I wanted to be recording Brendan and his enthusiasm.
Speaker 2:All right, I wasn't here that day, so I'm looking forward to listening to what that sounded like Look how pretty the shiny bronze cookoo is.
Speaker 1:That was a distinct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can see how pretty the shiny bronze cuckoo is.
Speaker 1:That was a distinct. Yeah, sounds like a car alarm.
Speaker 3:Is that still there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, wow.
Speaker 3:Star style. Well, universe on its back, so pretty man.
Speaker 1:In the right light, incredible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shit, you got a keen ear man. You knew exactly what that was.
Speaker 1:He's there. Have you seen him fly by? Yeah, see, if he does another fly by. Oh, that's a no, it wasn't, yep, that's him See, there he is. Yeah, you can see his little, he's wiggin', he's wiggin' Look.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's so cool. Okay, epic, alright, that's the best use of a phone I've seen. Yes, there you go. Oh, that was awesome, that was sick.
Speaker 2:I see that bird all the time yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, that makes me so happy. I can't wait to share that with the family.
Speaker 1:They come and go those things, but they're actually a beautiful bird in that right light.
Speaker 3:We usually start these conversations with that question. We ask people for a time or an experience in their life where after that, they were never the same. Have you got one of those that comes to mind that you'd want to share?
Speaker 1:I guess, being a bit older now, being 50, there's more than just one of those moments. But randomly, as a fun fact, one or an interesting one, I thought was randomly with a trip with you. I think it was 2001, 2002. And for starters, it was the year my son, michael, was born and I was a father and obviously I felt like a huge responsibility of, you know, being a dad. But we did a surf trip together down to Victoria with Andy Campbell and then we ended up going down to Tassie and we walked in to surf Shipsterns like absolutely freaky heavy wave and no one really been in there before and actually I think you may have as well. I think we were on like seven-foot boards which people just laugh at, riding those length boards and those heavy sort of waves.
Speaker 1:I went in there and actually you probably don't remember, but it was like a turning point for me because I got smoked on the takeoff on one and we got pushed really close to the rocks. You know you can get pinballed in there and I was always considered myself as a. I liked the bigger waves. I didn't, you know, I wasn't a big, big wave surfer but I liked to have a dig and then, after I got pinballed near those rocks and I felt like because we walked two and a half hours or two hours to get into the joint and there was no one around, it was just us and it was pretty much at the bottom of the earth, it was just such a remote location at the time and I um went I'm too, too old for this and I was like you're the young free surfer coming up and I was like it was almost like passing on the baton to you sort of thing, which is weird.
Speaker 1:I'm like I think, you know, I've just felt like I had this massive responsibility of like I've got a child. Now I can't be doing this raucous, dangerous sort of stuff where it never even occurred to me doing that. And I know I sort of look at that as one of the turning points in life where I felt like I had responsibility of yeah, 100%. I had a child to you know.
Speaker 1:Look after and not be so well not reckless and abandoned, but I was like it just made me feel was that, I know, like a change yeah, that's so interesting, it's an interest. It's a different sort of perspective of looking at. You probably never guessed that's one thing that I'd say, but I wouldn't have.
Speaker 3:And you know that's so interesting because now Lauren and I have a seven-year-old, or he's turning eight tomorrow but I've. I'm in the same world now where. I typically have places I go and surf alone a lot and they can be deemed quite fishy and a little bit sketchy and I get a bit of heat from some friends around surfing those kind of waves and alone and stuff, and that has changed for me since having our little fella, yeah, so I can fully relate.
Speaker 3:And it's so wild that I was just probably a completely self-obsessed 20 year old at the time, as we all are in our 20s, we're the center of our world. So I was totally oblivious, exactly, yeah, like, of that fact that you were going through that. Exactly. I didn't realize that till right now, yeah that micah had just been born. Yeah, and that that was what you were going through, because I remember I don't even like I remember at the end of that day we were like holy shit, that was some pretty serious water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was intense. We never knew really what we were in for and especially like we walked in there, it was like whatever it was a couple of hours and and looking where to paddle out and surfing these incredibly radical waves I mean it was an incredible experience. And then coming in and walking back, I think we left in the morning at dawn and came back at dusk and just went, oh my God, and you walked in in bloody Ugg boots, by the way, that's right, I did Ugg boots.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my ankles never forgive me. I was like you threw those Ugg boots away? That's right, they would have smelled so bad away. That's right, it would have smelled so bad too.
Speaker 1:It was funny.
Speaker 3:That's so interesting.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it was just a point where I thought, yeah, I was like maybe I'm not a big wave surfer I mean I do like big waves, but just that heavy feeling. But I remember before that, though, on many trips to Hawaii, I just was pretty reckless and abandoned and didn't really think about that. And it was just a point where I thought life's not just about me, it's about yeah, how old were you then when that happened? Uh, I would have been 2023 years ago. What's that? 30, 30-ish?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah wow, yeah, wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 3:It's so interesting, isn't it, when you've had, like, a shared moment with someone from so long ago. But yeah, one of you didn't know what was fully going on at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was a different sort of trip, but I've had a lot of other. You know life-changing sort of experiences, but you know some very heavy ones, but yeah, and some enlightening ones. We talked for days to about to get deep, but yeah, interesting, were you always different after that?
Speaker 3:then Do you feel? Like now that your kids are grown up and they're running their lives, are you going to go back to shippies and surf it again now? Has it returned at all? Or do you feel like that was just something that was happening in your 20s and you've let?
Speaker 1:it go? That's an amazing question too, because I find myself now I've moved down to quite a location and I do surf a little bit more alone and a bit more carefree again, but I you know, it's always in the back of your mind, and I'm sure that's why you've always done it too that freedom of surfing by yourself and no one else around.
Speaker 1:I probably enjoy those moments a lot more now because I know my son's 24 now and, yep, he's a young man. It's his journey and yeah, I mean you're a lot, you're more responsible a bit more, you carefully your decisions, but it's one of my favorite things to do in life is surf, yeah, away from the crowd or I don't think I've ever heard a conversation about this.
Speaker 3:Actually I've I. This is really cool. This is such a left field angle. I would not have anticipated a bit unexpected yeah, but it's really interesting because, like you, look at people like I don't know. Think of michael ho, mason ho that family, yeah, true michael. He's in his 70s now, is he? Oh, he would be, and he's charging back door and still doing those like the heaviest shallow water waves you can get. Yeah, and his kids are now adults, running their own deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I wonder if he went through a dip when he was a new father and was, you know, wanted to make sure he was there his kids didn't grow up without a dad or anything you know and then he returned to being a full madman Could be like a male paternal instinct, sort of thing to say you know that you're there that sort of thing to go through.
Speaker 1:I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you go, because I think the assumption would be that it's like a straight line where, like we're crazy in our 20s- we're crazy in our teens and our 20s. Then you start to get a few reality checks in your 30s and then you pull your head in in your 40s and you're sweet forevermore. Yeah. But what I'm feeling like this is showing is that once your kids have proven that they can fly, they can swim, they can, take care of.
Speaker 1:Then you can relax a little again you can relax a little again.
Speaker 3:But does that mean you relax into being kind of a? Wild man again in those dangerous situations, but with a bit more wisdom. Yeah, it's very interesting. I'd be super curious to talk with more people of like our age and a bit older to see how that arc has gone. Like if it is just a one-way street and you're like nah, those days of riding those super deadly or solo waves are fully behind me, or if they do come back, yeah.
Speaker 1:It was funny. I just did a trip over to Mexico. I went to that Pasquale's joint and it was actually one bombing day and I was like, oh my God, I sort of bring back those early feelings and I did manage to throw myself over the edge of one you know, 10-footer and I was like oh my God, no, I'm doing it, I'm doing it and it was just such a good thing because, yeah, it was just a good freedom feeling of just like, Just like.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's like I can't still do it, I'm like everything held in place and tippy-toed down this thing and did you pull it? Were your reflexes like good I made the drop and it didn't really. Oh you know, I just bottom turned and flicked off because it was a big teepee, but it just felt good to be out in you know, solid, 10 feet waves. I haven't been in waves that big for ages.
Speaker 2:But yeah, Cool it was a good feeling.
Speaker 1:And yeah that thing about surfing it always makes you youthful, and I think that's why all of us are so addicted to it it gives you so many different things, doesn't it? You know? Freedom, youthfulness and a lot of meditative states of mind and happy days.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and also that thing of like what I'm hearing you say is like getting to sort of know those different parts of ourselves to at different times in our life, like you knowing, okay, I'm a new dad, yeah, and maybe I won't just do hail mary exactly so much for this period, but not really knowing then that maybe those days could come back in your 50s perhaps, yeah, which is going to be really interesting for people to watch. So, like just yesterday, I was looking at some pretty serious water around here.
Speaker 3:We had one of our biggest swells and I was sitting on a cliff top with two buddies and I mentioned that I was going to sit down and have a yarn with you today and they were so pumped. They were both so pumped. I said, tell me what, like what would you want to know if you got to sit down with brendan? What would you ask him? And they were really curious about how you're going now with your life and with surfing. And they were, in particular, wanting to know how you're still able to be doing the kind of surfing that you can do. And they were talking about specifically seeing some footage of you in some recent time where you're doing some of your textbook pendulum surfing, where you're wrapping around and circular and going upside down and stuff. And they were like I want to be able to do that. You know they're in their early 40s, late 30s. They're like I want to be able to keep doing that kind of thing too. So what's your response to that when people ask you how you're pulling that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's super cool. I guess there was a window there that I actually, you know, I was surf Nazi right till my mid-30s and then I sort of, you know, had a few things happen in life where surfing was far from the thing that I wanted in my life. I sort of had like a what was it like? Five to eight year not break from surfing. I was still surfing, but I think one year I maybe only surfed once, or something like just fully lost interest.
Speaker 1:But then, losing that passion for surfing and all that, I did go down a dark hole and I knew something was missing and surfing pretty much felt like it saved my life again you know, but I don't know the last, probably five or six years, it's funny.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize how much it meant to me and how much I don't know, just this youthfulness thing that came back to me. I had a beautiful, fresh start with a beautiful lady that I've met now and things were just starting to rolling because I was surfing a lot and I was using that, as I guess, like a meditative sort of thing of goodness mindfulness. That helped me through that time, but I don't know. Then, flukingly enough, I got picked up by a board company and I had boards coming at me and I was like wow and I just had this fondness of being like a grommet of all these new, different sort of boards, not just writing
Speaker 1:these standard sort of board and I like to do a little bit of yoga. I'm not not crazy about anything and try and be pretty healthy now, but I just think if I can get in the water at least five times a week and I live a little bit, you know, I live like 25 minutes from beach now, but I think that's a good thing because when I do go down there I make myself go surfing, I make, you know, make the effort, whereas before living on the beach you sort of get a bit, you know, oh, I'll go out later when the tide's different. All of this and I think, missing these years of surfing. And then my son helped me too, like being a keen young surfer and seeing his froth and stoke and wanting me to go surfing with him and just bring out that enjoyment too. Had all these little ingredients that sort of worked together and helped me be, you know, in this weird career that I'm in now with surfing again, which is so bizarre. And it's so weird because it's a little bit to do with social media, which is sort of an absolute love-hate, weird thing, but for some reason it's helped me sort of have this opportunity to sort of make a living out of surfing again, which is so bizarre but it's so fun and people are literally so stoked for me and I'm stoked for myself.
Speaker 1:I think people love to see surfing on rail and something they can relate to and I think that's why and they love style. I mean, I'm not talking myself up, but we have unique styles like obviously I've got my style and you've got your soul and you surf so beautifully on the wave. You know which people absolutely adore and froth and feel very blessed to. You know, I'd never take it for granted. I'm stoked the way things have turned out, but just at the end of the day, I'm not trying to do anything and I'm sure you aren't too. You're just expressing yourself when it's just how it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I kind of figured that was how your response would be, that you wouldn't be banging out a thousand push-ups every morning and sit-ups and then, like you know, because that's what my mates are like, they're like how is he doing this shit?
Speaker 3:Like you know, and and I was thinking, well, I don't know, maybe you surf and then you're in bed for a week after doing those sort of turns. Because I'm at an age now where I'm I have to do a little bit of training and do stuff to balance out my body, because I've got some niggles and some sore bits, you know. And and I like thinking about when we sit down and have these sort of chats, like having useful insights or useful stories for people to listen and be like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna try that, you know, maybe that's something someone will just hear then with you is like living a little further from the beach and just going and being like you know what, I'm just gonna go out, I made the drive, I'm here or going. Yep, I want five sessions a week just to keep things rolling. You know that that's useful stuff for people.
Speaker 1:I think so and I think too, you realise, when you do get older, don't be scared to write a little bit longer, a little bit thicker board.
Speaker 1:I do see a lot of people today at my age and they're still writing the same boards they were writing you know in their early 30s and I see the frustration on them and when they do stand up they're like rah, just all a bit out of whack and it's like not to be. You know you don't need to ride a mid-length or anything like that. Just step it up a bit and don't be. There's no need to ride something so thin.
Speaker 1:Just didn't, yeah, um yeah but, and I surf, tried to surf within myself, whereas when I was younger I didn't. I was pretty used to, I don't know, I used to do silly white patches, you know, because I used to do the most stupidest I used to go for like silly maneuvers and silly spots um all the time.
Speaker 3:You always used to laugh at me so much they were so inspiring, they were the best falls ever because, like you said, you would be upside down on a part of a wave where no one would go to do a turn. They'd just be going straight to go through that section and you'd be like I think I'll hit that and go upside down. But then that didn't always work out.
Speaker 1:No, 100%.
Speaker 3:So that's great that you brought that up, because that was always inspiration, because you always seem to do that with a laugh. That's always been my appreciation for how many adventures and just surf sessions we got to share over that period in time where I really got a lot of inspiration from seeing the way you carried yourself through that world. That is pretty prickly at times and kind of hard to navigate. You know when you know people are watching you. Yes, you know people are watching and recording you.
Speaker 1:And audiences are judging you. Yeah, it's like you can.
Speaker 3:I would get really, really self-conscious in contest scene areas. I would just get way too in my head and I'd have so much chatter in my head oh this person doesn't like me over there, oh they think this about me, or oh shit, they're looking at me now and it just I got way too in my head in that space. So as much as I for my younger years in surfing wanted to go and have adventures and go explore different things in surfing and surfboards and I was saying yes to that, I was also really saying no to the contest world and cameras and all of that stuff that I couldn't cope with.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I saw a similar thing with you, I think.
Speaker 1:I went through the same struggles, yeah.
Speaker 3:Was it like that for you? A bit like where you felt like, fuck, this is intense having people sort of watching me all the time.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 1:And especially your surfing, yeah, just being sort of under the microscope all the time, and I think that's what the best thing, the fortunate thing that we had we were able to go on trips, like on a boat trip to Indo or go to a remote location, and then we weren't around certain crowds and then we were mic-blinded, sort of thing, and yeah. So we just felt like we could escape the crowds and all that and we were in our own little bubble and then we could express ourselves, surfing and stuff, and feel like I could laugh and fall off in front of you and just be ourselves. And it did make us feel like we could surf better because we're pushing each other at the same time.
Speaker 1:But we're pushing each other actually pretty hard. Like I love surfing with you and I'm vice versa, I'm sure, like we, we really did push ourselves, but we pushed ourselves in a way, we tried to do silly things and it was that ridiculous. We're just laughing at each other because, like what? The hell are you trying to do a?
Speaker 1:floater on an eight-foot bloody hose out at Arcee, oh God. And you know you do some pretty crazy stuff, dave. But no, it was just fun to have that escapism on those trips because you're surfing around you know like-minded people and very talented surfers at the time so you could push each other. But it is hard coming back surfing at home in a crowded spot than people froth or different. I think it would be even harder now.
Speaker 1:being a young, up-and-coming, inspiring pro, it feels like they're getting judged way more, especially if social media and whatnot be pretty tough, but it was still tough for us, I think in those days I think maybe it was tough, more so in our own heads than what it was really. So that's, I guess the key point is like but I think that's what made you a perfectionist and made me a perfectionist too. Or try that extra bit harder to achieve, because yeah we're trying to be the best, we're trying to perfect a sport. That's pretty much impossible to do but it's like you know we try to do our jobs really really good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I've been thinking lately just about your grommethood, growing up in the Byron area and just sort of wanting to know who your inspirations were, because when I reached out to our friend Will Connor, and said I was going to have a yarn with you he wrote me this unbelievable message and he was quick to make the point that when you guys were kids growing up in the 80s, there was a scene of kind of machismo and being like a rough Aussie and like a tough guy in the surfing world around that time, and Will's words were that you were the exact opposite. You were just like up for a laugh, always making him laugh. He said that you guys just grew up laughing all the time, surfing closeouts at the wreck together.
Speaker 1:That was my favorite scene.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he just was so quick to say that it was that that he respected and knew so much that even when you started just surfing circles around everyone around here, you still had that just humble and sort of jovial nature. Where did that come from? When you were a grommet way? Did you have examples to follow in that way? Were there any elders or anyone who showed you that path? Or was that just you being you despite the culture around you?
Speaker 1:I honestly think it was me being me and maybe, yeah, obviously the way I was brought up, but I honestly it was such a cool place to grow up in the early days with. I'm sure it's still a great place to grow up now.
Speaker 1:There's no, you know, it's just a different era yeah but that time surfing the wreck at Beach, even the pass or whatever. There was so many good surfers in the town and it felt like not many people came in and went out. It was just like the same hot young grommets and the hot 20-year-olds and hot 30-year-olds. There's a lot of great surfers in the area, but we'd always be out there and it was just a pecking order.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lot of great surfers in the area, but we'd always be out there and there was justa.
Speaker 1:It's just a pecking order, it was simple as that. There was this, like you'd get the scraps and I just had to just wait your turn, and I don't know. I just thought, I thought I would just be polite and wait my turn, and then I don't know, I just, I just thought that was the rules and that's the way it was.
Speaker 1:I just believed in taking your term and just relaxing, and but then I always I for something about me too, like at the wreck, for example, there was a breakdown, the beach called the Boilers, and I thought it was just as good and I'd just rather go and sit down there and get a couple.
Speaker 3:What about the surfing technique, though? So? Like when you look at like. I have heaps of inspiration when I was a kid from some of the older crew at. Burley, who just rode the tube incredibly and had a real, distinct way of being in the pit there. What about you around here? Was there anyone that was surfing in a way where you were like, oh yeah, I want to have that in me.
Speaker 1:There was a guy called Gary Timperley. I think he was on tour there for a little bit and whatnot, but he was just an incredible powerful surfer, sort of stocky, sort of opposite the way I surf, sort of thing, but he was just he just really stood out incredible surfer. There's another guy that lives at lennox now called noel graham and he was a phenomenal rail surfer, powerful and it was awesome it was awesome and there was a guy a little bit older than me, jeremy Biles, from New Brighton.
Speaker 1:He used to come in and surf town a lot too, and he was like, he was so gnarly, he was so radical that he had an amazing presence about himself. Biles, when he was young he was really good. He was really good, really young, yeah. But then there was these low-key guys like this dude called Leonard Robbins. I'm sure we all might have mentioned him. He was just the most laid back. He's almost the cruisier surfer, the most laid back style I think I've ever seen in my life. It was almost like he was asleep standing up on his board.
Speaker 3:Was he just stunned the whole time?
Speaker 1:you reckon Probably yeah, I dare say so. Yeah, he never used to say much, he always had the Chinese eyes or whatever, but he could ride the barrel and he could just do the raddest laybacks and just.
Speaker 1:But then there was a generation of young guys at the same age who were better than me, which, I guess, pushed me so much. There was a guy called Sasha Slay, yeah. And then there was Craig Holley, up down at Lennox Head, and there was so many hot guys around at the time that, yeah, it was just so many good guys.
Speaker 3:I've got to read this too, because it's just unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want to hear it.
Speaker 3:So Will Connor grew up in the Byron area with you, margs, and he actually his family are from the same hometown as my partner Lauren's hometown.
Speaker 2:That's so wild All the way over in Florida.
Speaker 3:St Augustine, which is pretty classic, so we've got some funny links there. But Will is a great surfer. He's a really great musician and an incredible friend just a great guy. He's good mates with the Johnsons in Hawaii and all kinds of people around the surfing and music world. When I hit him up he just was gushing. He's like oh my God, how much time do I have? I'll just like he just it was gushing. He's like oh my god, how much time do I have? I'll write you this. So he said there's so much I love about brendan's character.
Speaker 3:But first thing is when we were kids he wasn't one of the aggro surfers who would be harsh on land. That was the deal in the 80s super aggro on land, like it was some sort of rite of passage. But I gravitated towards hanging with him because he was just a gentle character and so funny, funny as they come. We used to just laugh and surf all day and laugh while surfing. Even we would surf the wreck maxed out and just take off together and look at each other. The whole drop like right in the face, staring contest sort of stuff, straight dropping into the crazy steep waves there. Not sure how we both did that being natural footers. But no one else is probably thinking that that's that funny, but it was ridiculous and a big rush.
Speaker 3:He lived on the next street from me and it was a daily after school surf at the rare cortellos. And then, as we got older, I remember right before I left to go to america I was 18, he was about 16, we were surfing seahorses contest in byron at broken yeah, and he just all of a sudden was miles ahead of his age group. I remember looking up and the whole beach paused at Broken when Brendan did a floater from the bottom of Broken Point way past the Kunji Rock and blew everyone's mind. That's right, I'm a floater guy, I love a floater. Then I left and he hooked up with Jack McCoy a few years later and I was so proud of him because he was the quiet one that didn't brag and just smoked everyone without having to be aggressive. He said you had this determination that was really fierce. He reckons he saw in you like this determination. That's probably that perfection thing you're talking about, like a gentleness, but not without like strength and force. Can you hear anything?
Speaker 1:in that, not without like strength and force. Can you hear anything in that? I think that hit the nail on the head there, because as much as Melo was, you know just being the nice guy, you know waiting my turn for a wave and then everyone paddled around the inside of me or whatever it be, deep down I really wanted to be the best surfer in the world.
Speaker 1:I wanted to. There was something about surfing. I thought I knew I had a unique style or whatever, but I was surfed quite slowly or had a slow sort of style early. But then something clicked. I'm not sure of my, I just got a bit bigger, a bit stronger. I just felt. When I stood up, I felt like I could do anything sort of thing.
Speaker 1:It was an incredible feeling and, yeah, it was definitely something that was deep. You go to sleep at night. I wanted to be a world not a world champion, but I wanted to be. I remembered I wanted to be the best surfer in the world.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say it, but I did. I was just a young Grom's dream sort of thing.
Speaker 1:And I swear to God, I used to get so angry if I never made a turn I'd surf for six hours straight. I'd put so much time in the water when I was young. Any chance I had I was out there and I truly you know what. Is it the secret or something? I think if you really believe in something and you really want it that badly, it will somehow come to you. And I think that sort of I wanted it that badly. I literally it was blood, sweat and tears to happen, wanted it that badly. I literally it was blood, sweat and tears to happen. But then it sort of happened in a way, or it sort of flukingly happened. I was in the right place at the right time when I hooked up with Jack McCoy, then went away with hockey and a trip and got pumping waves and as uncanny the way it happens.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's just you know a lot of luck's involved, but I just think because I wanted it so much it sort yeah fell my way yeah and then when I did surf, like with Jack McCoy or a photographer or anything, I'd stay out there till I got the shot.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes you can get the shot within the first wave and you can pretty much come in and it's done. Yeah, other times it can take you all day, if that you know, to get a certain you know barrel shot. Or cameraman's just out of the way, or Jack McCoy's little three mil tapes just ran out and you get that sick wave. You know you can just be out of out of timing with everything, but I'd be out.
Speaker 1:I'll do what I was asked to do to try and get the shot like yeah you know where a lot of people I see young people are going. They get given these little golden opportunities and they're just like whatever, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:yeah, whatever, it's just yeah, whatever. Yeah, not dig in and do the work. I was dedicated, you were. I remember that I'm stoked you brought that up with Jack there, because that was definitely something I wanted to dig into, considering Jack's passing recently and us sharing some good stories there. But that point, so you're you know, like Will said, your surfing is grabbing people's attention and that comes in the form of sponsors. At that time, the only route for someone to not have to become a tradie or a chef and I remember you had chef interests because people were choosing chefing as a job.
Speaker 3:that was good with surfing, but all there was is basically competitions and the hustle of the competition world. I think Rip Curl maybe sponsored Gary Green and maybe Frankie, but probably not yet Frankie.
Speaker 3:Oberholzer, he was a little bit later maybe I think he might've been a year or two younger. Yeah, so there was Tom Curran, but he's an ex-world champion. So he's, you know, had to be the best in the world and then he could free surf, but it wasn't really a route. And so then you know, you're a young man and you get pulled into the Billabong and Jack experience yeah. Which was just really kicking off at that point in that iteration, because Jack had been making surf films for decades by then. But that was the Billabong golden era.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, Bunyip Dreaming had just come out and yeah, I'd never thought in a million years that I'd get the opportunity to go into his next project, the Green Iguana.
Speaker 3:So which is 94 or three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was in the 90s sometimes.
Speaker 3:I can't remember it was that good of a time. Eh yeah, I was super young and innocent back then.
Speaker 1:But yeah, just getting the call up to you. Know, I think Did he call you.
Speaker 3:No, did Vince call you or something Vince?
Speaker 1:did. Yeah, I think Munger was actually meant to go on the trip, like he's pretty much the star of the movie yeah.
Speaker 1:But he did his knee and it was a last minute call up and I was living at Byron at the time and they said can you get to the Gold Coast within the next two days to fly to Western Australia to get picked up by Jack and Occy to film up in the desert? And I'm like, I think I'm like 18 or something. I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, okay, I'll do it. You know like, yeah, I just literally got picked up maybe six months before by Bill LeVong, but I had a little reputation. Margot is this little hot kid from Byron and fortunately, our Vince, yeah, the team manager at the time, yeah, finished going to be this golden ticket opportunity and yeah, went there and to the beyond we got some pumping waves and Jack was super stoked, um, with the footage he got. You know, go along with Occy like man, that dude's so funny in those early days he had's an incredible place to find yourself with those two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the desert, yeah, and it was like two weeks up there, then come back and then obviously Jack spoke highly of me. Then you know, more opportunities arose through that early Billabong Golden years. And then Rabbit Bethlehem, rabs Wayne, rabbit Bethlehem I couldn't say his last name there for a second, but yeah, he, he, uh. I actually did do a contest back then at that same time as actually the world titles in France, and Rab actually helped coach me to the final of that event, which is rad, because I was such a bad contest surfer.
Speaker 1:But he was like, yeah, he'd let Brandon sit here, brandon sit here, oh wow a couple of ways and I got to the fight, and all that same year. So then he spoke quietly of me as well, and things just sort of snowballed from then, but then they went ah, don't worry about, we need someone not doing the contest thing so that was sort of their idea to come to you with that too it was they see that you weren't that pumped on the contest scene yeah.
Speaker 3:How did that work it?
Speaker 1:was more. So they wanted someone to, because obviously everything was shot and filmed back then. Nothing happened overnight, so it'd take weeks for films to get developed or whatever.
Speaker 1:But all the pro surfers were overseas at the time in winter but they needed summer shots in winter in Australia and winter shots in winter in australia and you know winter shots in summer, so I found myself surfing in boardies in winter and wetsuits in summer, or, you know, going to different locations. It seemed to work to keep the advertisement thing up to scratch the magazines at the time and it just kept it current and reliable and I had yeah, so it sort of you were available too.
Speaker 3:I was available because everyone else was on the tour pretty much at that point. There was probably like 16 contests a year.
Speaker 1:Those guys were going so hard yeah, so they were gone and they just needed someone to shoot, and then I was sort of like that. So it sort of was more like that, eric you know yeah the way things turned out, but uh, then all sudden boat trips started happening and exploring the world. And then, and then, all of a sudden boat trips started happening and exploring the world.
Speaker 1:And then yeah, just shooting with Jack and Occy and then things you know, the years pass and then it sort of turned into this like free surf thing and it just sort of molded in some weird way.
Speaker 2:If you've enjoyed listening to the conversation so far, consider also subscribing to Water People on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It'll help other people find the show and, if you're feeling inspired, leave us a review. We love hearing from you. And now a word from the folks who help make the podcast possible. Patagonia is in business to save our home planet. Founded by Yvonne Chouinard in 1973, patagonia is a surf and outdoor apparel company based in Ventura, california. As a certified B Corp and a founding member of 1% for the planet, the company is recognized internationally for its product quality and environmental activism, as well as its contributions of nearly $230 million to environmental organizations. Its unique ownership structure reflects that the earth is its only shareholder. Profits not reinvested back into the business are paid as dividends to protect the planet. Learn more at patagoniacomau.
Speaker 2:Many of us look to supplements and special diets to maintain our health, but ignore the obvious. We are water, it's what we're made of and it's to maintain our health, but ignore the obvious. We are water, it's what we're made of and it's what supports every bodily function. Primal water, the water our ancestors thrived on, is energized, alkaline and made for real hydration. It doesn't come from the industrialized, often contaminated water systems most of us rely on. For the last 25 years, alkaway has been researching and refining ways to mimic natural water systems. We invite you to learn more about Primal Water and support their charitable work with BirdLife Australia. Head to alkawaycom to score a $50 discount using code WATERPEOPLE. That's alkawaycom.
Speaker 2:What do you do when your sunglass lenses inevitably get scuffed or scraped? The top drawer of our kitchen island was where scratched sunglasses went to die, until we learned about the Sunglass Fix. They've been at the forefront of the repair revolution since 2006 and carry more than 600,000 lens options, so there's a solution for every frame. We found our Cennies on the sunglassfixcom and within a few days, received brand new polarized lenses to easily install at home. A billion pairs of sunglasses are made each year, with hundreds of millions ending up in landfill. The Sunglass Fix offers free lens shipping in Australia and to 161 countries around the world, as well as subsidized express tracked shipping worldwide for less than $5 in any currency. They're a proud member of 1% for the planet and are ready to help make your favorite frames last longer. Use the code WATERPEOPLE for 10% off your purchase today at thesunglassfixcom.
Speaker 3:Isn't it interesting I feel like it's of interest to note what the surfing world was like at that time and how you found yourself in a position of being so like, supported and celebrated by people, because I think at that time the tour and the contest world was in a lot of lackluster little waves, the trump you had to try really hard to surf those kind of waves and win and the idea that you could be super talented and off surfing perfect waves in these corners of the world without crowds. Yeah, and then also I know for me because I was a grommet looking up to you and that whole period what was in interesting to me and inspiring was that you had a style of surfing that was so different to everyone in the competition world who was largely surfing with their muscle power. I reckon so in my mind.
Speaker 3:I kind of view I viewed it then and view it now as though there were the Tommy Carroll kind of surfing which is unbelievable.
Speaker 3:I've always like he was all down the line when I was 12 again, he was another one of my heroes, but his surfing is very power-oriented via muscles, yeah, true, whereas your surfing was powerful Like I've seen you half waves, with that fucking backhand turn you do like cleave them in half. So extremely powerful surfing, but, and high speed, but you seemed to be more on the like pendulum style, where you would use gravity and you would just you would look relaxed. Essentially, you didn't look like your muscles were tense and you were trying really hard. You just would be zooming along in your own way and your feet were closer together.
Speaker 3:You weren't in this wide power stance that was so common at the time and you were just doing shit that no one else was doing then and still doesn't do now, and I think that's just of interest, because, yeah, I think the rest of the surfing world is probably so refreshed by seeing different lines and just a different personality too. You just, you just seem like you were happy and you're having adventures that everyone would want to have, and I truly was like at that time.
Speaker 1:From my early 20s to probably 26, 27, I literally everything just sort of fell into my lap f fumbled, I fumbled my way through. I was a country kid from Byron that you know, left school early, got halfway through a chef's apprenticeship and just things. Just I don't know and it was just, I didn't have to think about. I didn't think about it too much, you know, I didn't let it worry me or stress me or worry about what other people thought of me, and that was probably a good thing.
Speaker 1:it just naturally everything just happened in this crazy way. Yeah, yeah, but uh, but it felt like my surfing just kept. Yeah, I felt like it got better and better and better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know I don't know.
Speaker 1:I felt like I'd still yeah, and it was at a time too where you know like it was pretty much the same ages kelly was this high performance surfing was it's. It felt like it was this new era. It age as Kelly. It was just high-performance surfing, it felt like it was this new era. It finally happened Like surfing went through, you know, the single fin era, the twin fin and the thrusters came. There was still so much to explore, with different things you could do on a wave.
Speaker 1:And I remember doing a reverse, for example before Kelly Slater's Black and White, or even knowing that he did it. But I remember doing a fin throw down at Walker's at the Blondial area at Byron, and I popped the fins out and I remember spinning backwards, going oh my God, and it spun around that way and I made it you know no one around or whatever and I went that's, what did I just do?
Speaker 2:No one, I don't think anyone's done that before?
Speaker 1:I was like tripped out, and I just yeah, I just said, well, I do remember that. And then I think what happened? When you saw the video of him doing it then, I think about three months later, it was this prodigy child from America and I was like it's Kelly Slater, I remember he did one in it. I went, I did that, that's called a margot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no it's called a margot, I know, but it was a trip and then it was funny, like here's just the next level, obviously. But yeah, I was like wow, I was just I don't know just this innovation thing of like riding a normal shortboard and then trying to do aerials, like I could get in the air but trying to land airs, I don't know. I was into it all, like it was just so fun.
Speaker 1:Just just, it was incredible time yeah, um, yeah and then having no one, really it felt like, yeah, obviously the oki's in time, which is next level, but just trying to do your own thing, like I, wasn't really like I have to surf like oki or I have to. I had idols but I didn't focus on. I focused on me that I guess that's why I had my own style.
Speaker 1:I guess yeah. So yeah, I just concentrated on my surfing. I didn't analyse, I didn't sit there on a tape and watch other people surf, like people do today, and I think that might have been beneficial.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it certainly helps with people having a uniqueness, you know, when you're not picking everything apart and being having a formula to your surfing. Yeah, like, I certainly feel like when we're talking about that era, the 90s there, and as you go further back from there, back in time, the uniqueness of people's way was so rad. There was just so many different ways to surf and I actually remember it's funny you say looking at tapes and things I remember being like 14 or something and we were on one of the East Coast driving trips to a contest or something in Sydney and we would do the milk run through Foster.
Speaker 1:Oh, the pro junior. Yeah, that was hilarious.
Speaker 3:We would do the pro juniors and it was like the most unbelievable thing in the universe to be a grommet then, because we would get thrown in a tarago. Oh, that's right with you oh my god, and luke egan, or or sometimes manga, sometimes even ok, yeah, and we'd get to hang out and go surfing and we do the expression session, you do the expression session.
Speaker 1:We used to just drive and hang at those junior events yeah, it was unbelievable as a kid and babysit you were.
Speaker 3:Marco, well, I wouldn't call it babysitting you ratbags. You grommets were so radical, I wasn't Joel was. Oh, come on.
Speaker 1:No, it was hilarious times back then, but it was true.
Speaker 3:I remember being at Foster, at Blueyys and boomerang, and jim brabant, marcus brabant's dad, had a digital video camera. Yeah, do you remember that? He's just, he used to video all the time. Yeah, marcus, and other people, he videoed a surf that we all had at blueys or something that day and then that night we got to, we got to watch it and it was like the first of ever seeing that dynamic where you could see yourself surfing mind. And I remember it came on the TV screen and I was sitting at the back of the room so terrified, being like, oh my God, I wonder how I look Like I feel good when I surf but I wonder how I'm going to look Then the footage was rolling and it would just be like one wave after another.
Speaker 3:It was just the day's surf, so you'd be on one, and then I'd be on one, and then joel, and then munger, and then whoever, and so good. It was amazing. But I remember there was a shot where you were just doing your upside down backhand surfing. That was just incredible. But I remember you saw something that you didn't like and you talked yourself way down. Yeah, and I so I'm a little kid right and I'm hanging off every word that's coming out of you and luke's mouth and any of the elders. I'm like, whatever mannerisms, the way you pick your nose, everything. I'm like I'm gonna do exactly what those guys do. So I heard you say that. Yeah, I heard you like be self-deprecating. I'm like, oh, that's what you do. You never talk yourself up. You never, ever talk yourself up. You talk yourself down.
Speaker 3:But then, I actually remember seeing in you this thing where you kind of cringed about your style. You were harsh on yourself, was I? Yeah? Yeah and then I came on the screen and I had knocked, like my knees were close together and my my front yeah, my front arm was a little crabby, it wasn't relaxed and I saw it and I was horrified and I was like, just like you, I was so harsh on myself.
Speaker 3:I'm like that's it. I've got to relax that fucking chicken arm that's out the front there doing this like yeah, chicken wing thing and I've got my feet are so close together and anyway.
Speaker 3:But it was just this funny moment. I was just thought it'd be interesting to bring it up with you. Where, like the ship stands thing, you just don't know what's happening at all times for everyone but that was a huge moment for me that's interesting, yeah because I saw that you were willing to express my emotional feelings when you had that big of a response.
Speaker 3:I'm like, yeah, look at this, he's really really cares. He like you give a shit. Yeah, and I was thought you're a free surfer guy so I just thought everything's just chill, you don't really care about anything, you're just cruising. But then you cared. You were like no, I want to, I want to surf out of my skin, which is that thing you're talking about that's exactly it and I want to.
Speaker 1:You know, I want to surf on a. Yeah, you want to surf the wave from the start to the end, just and finish it perfectly and know that you put in 110. You know, I don't know. I just I always felt like I gave everything when I surfed a wave and that causes you to fall a lot because you're pushing so hard or whatnot.
Speaker 1:but I just felt right, it just feels that's what it was within me to do, surfing in that in those early days. Yeah, but it did cause you to fall a lot, but then when you did make it, it was like wow.
Speaker 3:And unforgettable feeling. Yeah, and it's the best feeling yeah, incredible. That's so classic eh.
Speaker 3:It's so funny little things your memory latches onto, yeah, so if we fast forward a little bit from so actually no, that would have been the same around the same time, like being awarded the best free surfer in the world by surfing magazines 96, 97, 98, that kind of period. You're like at the height of your powers, you know, and all of us grommets are looking up just like, oh my God, brendan's the best, he's like the coolest guy and doing the craziest things in the ocean. And then you went to Indo and went in that NEAS competition. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:And won a proper bona fide contest against all the hero surfers who would be? Doing that. Yeah, that was super cool. I'm interested in knowing why you went and did that and then how it felt to be the fucking Lord at the end of the day, and how stoked the surfing world was that you weren't actually. Yeah, dearest, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what that was like that was super cool. I do remember the. I had a really good board at the time and yeah, what like six. It was pretty long six fours since I've been like nine, ten years old old, I'm still riding six fours now. How funny is that? I've always been on six fours.
Speaker 3:I've struggled riding shorter fours and that was a six four in the ass, yeah, because it was kind of solid, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was like four to six foot in the ass, like it was not massive, but it was Okay yeah.
Speaker 1:To me the most in that event. I was like had this thing where I'd be the last one to paddle out no matter what, and then I'd get the first wave of the set like just so easy. But I would never do that normally. And I went no, I'm going to do that. And I had this game and I got through heat after heat and next minute I had the most gnarly like guys that would want the inside at the start of a heat. But I even think in the semis or something I was like the heat had already started and Poto was tripping at me that you know like Poto's like treated as like the king, yeah, big time Asian king, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:And I had the inside straight off the bat and then the first set would come through, and then I'd get an eight or something, and then you know, we're just on a roll and I only needed maybe two or three waves, but I did. I felt that was a thing.
Speaker 1:I was like if I just keep doing this simple thing and it just stuck with me and I just yeah, I just felt like I was surfing and everything was good. I wasn't thinking about it and all of a sudden I was in the final and I made sure I jumped off last and I got the first wave that came through.
Speaker 3:So you're jumping off of the keyhole behind it. Yeah, yeah, so naturally you're the deepest and then you got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's not really genius, it's just, but it was something that I would never do, that you know, especially to someone like podo or to whoever else was in the event, and even the hungry young guys. I remember, yeah, taj.
Speaker 3:Wink and all those crew were there, yeah.
Speaker 1:Wink and I think Lowey. Lowey wigged out at me too, because he was very competitive.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Michael Lowe. And yeah, just I don't know, it felt good to have that little bit of authority, sort of feeling of like no, this is mine and yeah.
Speaker 3:And then so you did that and you won. And what happened after that? Did you go on a run of a few contests? No, after that, that's funny.
Speaker 1:We actually went on a boat trip out to Asu after that. But anyways, then I thought well, you know what, if I've won one, I was like why not do a couple more? Because everyone won one. I was like why not do a couple more? Because everyone's saying like I did have pressure at the time people were in the magazine. There was magazine covers margo, next best thing out of australia.
Speaker 1:Um, if he did contest he'd be the who's the next, kelly slater and everything, yeah, compared to that a little bit for a year or two, like they're looking for someone, like obviously they had powell and herring were the two big guys at the time, but I was this x-factor guy that could potentially, you know, be knocking on Kelly's door, sort of thing, but and it did feel like a little bit of pressure at the time to do that.
Speaker 1:I did go to Europe after that and tried to do some of the QS events, and it was literally in. I remember Pantin in Portugal, or even another event in Zaraus, I think it was in. Spain and it was like literally one foot, like the cruddiest, smallest waves, and there was no priority back then in heights and there's no keyhole to slip out behind people.
Speaker 1:It was like, how do you even? And everyone was so hungry and I actually went to Brazil that same year and just didn't get through any heat and just got completely smoked and just, and I wasn't because I wasn't a competitive guy, I wasn't really hanging with the guys that much. I felt a little bit isolated, a bit travelling at the time, but I just, yeah, at the end of the day I was just like, oh my god, I remember the one event in Brazil, at Recife, getting absolutely smoked and just I think yeah, I cried yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't.
Speaker 1:And then, and then I went back to Bill and went I don't think I want to do the game. They said what were you thinking? Anyway, that's how it's like true, what, what was I thinking? And it was cool and I went back to free surfing. But but how cool is to have that opportunity. 100%.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I've said this before. I was like I'm glad I did have a go. It could have taken a couple of years, maybe I might have, you know, worked it out, but I didn't make it and I can live with that.
Speaker 2:I know I tried, you know yeah 100%, Because now I can go.
Speaker 1:yeah, anyway.
Speaker 3:That is great yeah yeah, I was wondering about that. I remember that and I remember I was I think I was literally at the same contests as a little kid, because I got an early start at some of those contests and did all right in a couple qs's. That got me into exactly that in recife, in brazil. Yeah and I lost there too exactly we were probably crying in our hotel rooms, a couple of floors down from each other.
Speaker 1:You might have been a year or two later. Do you reckon it was the same year?
Speaker 3:It was somewhere around then it was somewhere around 96, 97. I was 16, 17, and I was dipping my toe in that pool and feeling it out too.
Speaker 1:But it was like honestly winning a heat or whatever. It's a really cool feeling, it's an amazing feeling, but it's not. Surfing is so much more than competing, you know. There's so many but it's all good to those who do compete and I actually do enjoy watching the competitive surfing of today every now and then. There's no right or wrong, but you know we surf because we love it at the end of the day and it's like an open canvas and you get to do what you want and, yeah, super cool.
Speaker 3:I was wondering if there was ever much I don't know thinking behind the boards you were using or the surfing in general that you were doing in those early 2000s in Hawaii where you were surfing bigger waves, like they were four-foot beachies at tallows. So I'll paint the picture is we're all in Hawaii where you were surfing bigger waves like they were four-foot beachies at tallows.
Speaker 3:So I'll paint. The picture is we're all in Hawaii every winter and you know a lot of us were staying in little Johnny Theodore rat pit at the back of sunset and, just you know, living on cami's muffins and instant noodles. Well, I was living up, I was eating ice cream yeah, so you were, but usually you were over at Hullyeva with Kribby yeah that's true.
Speaker 1:Staying over at.
Speaker 3:Hullyeva, end of town, surfing Hullyeva all the time and I remember being a 14-year-old 1994 or 5 it was and I remember the first time I surfed Sunset Beach I powered out with Parco Dean Morrison and rabbit bartholomew and you and you went out and you went left and then you went straight up and did like one of your brendan backhand 12 o'clock turns on like what seemed to me like a freaking 20 foot wave. It was probably like 10, 12 foot west peak, you know, and the left and you would hang in that little zone over there.
Speaker 1:I used to love hanging deep, I know and I saw you do that and again just blew my mind.
Speaker 3:I'm like what the fuck? I didn't even know you could go left at sunset and you just went upside down, pulled out quickly before you hit the boneyard zone and paddle back out dry hair and you're just blowing my mind. Then we'd see you at haleva doing like grab rail airs on like 710s or 760s. You were surfing these bigger waves like they were a four-foot wedge at tallows. Where did that come from for you? Was there anyone who was showing you how to do that kind of thing? Or was that again just sort of you being you in your own sort of surf bubble in your mind doing your thing?
Speaker 1:It's a bit of both. I was fortunate enough at that time I had Morris Cole made a lot of my surfboards so I had, you know, he was shaping a lot of boards, a lot of guns at the time. He was a really you know a conic gun shaper. And I'd get a quiver of really long boards. And so I remember, on a smaller day taking out a longer board, obviously just to cruise and just try and surf that, and then you know, just a six foot day I'd ride a 710 or an 80 or something and then you get on a seven foot or a 72 and it feels like a short board.
Speaker 3:So I just always, but I just felt like it was around with boards like that, yeah yeah, a fair bit.
Speaker 1:So I loved um when it was yeah, but I just had a thing for that longer rail line. I think it suited my surfing a little bit, but yeah, I loved riding um. Yeah, two bigger board for a little period of time, then doing that swap over sort of thing, yeah when the waves were smaller, you'd still end up riding a bigger board than what most people are riding, but it was because the day before I was riding a foot longer Like, not just inches, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like a whole different.
Speaker 1:yeah, and then, I don't know, after a period of time, six sevens was my magic number, I thought as a board.
Speaker 3:Over there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it ended up being my favourite as soon as the waves got over six foot, I loved riding a six-seven. It was just my go-to. I just think it was just a rail line of a six-seven or something, I don't know. And then I loved six-tens, but then, I don't know, I just loved it. It just felt like it suited my surfing that sort of longer board. But yeah, I don't know, just in the bigger ways it felt like. I just felt like was the right thing to do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's nothing worse than riding a big wave on a board that feels like it's going to sketch off the bottom. I just love like to me it was the ultimate feeling is driving on a big wave and knowing your board's going to hold in, so I was always looking for that, yeah yeah, yeah, cool, okay.
Speaker 3:So I think we've surf nerded out enough let's bird nerd now, so you've always had this interest in the, the bird realm, which comes from your family trips. I remember you talking about how your parents would take you on trips on the road, perhaps as a kid in oz and doing some bird watching.
Speaker 3:How much of that do you reckon has like spilled into your personality and your life? Because I remember as a kid seeing you mention that every now and again not a lot, when we're in those surfing circles and stuff, but you talk about birds every now and again and I personally was inspired by that because I was like how cool is this? You've got an other interest than just being a full surf rat, yeah, and just now, by being out on the deck and seeing how much that lights you up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just curious about it, like where that comes from and then how, yeah, how it ties into your life when I was young I think I was 12, 13 my parents traveled around us, did massive road trips back in the day and take us out of school and just throw us in the back of the car and, would you know, we went to w way, went to the northern territory on these separate trips, like northern queensland. I remember one of the trips I was like, oh my god, I was taking away of the trips. I was like, oh my God, I was taking away from the surf.
Speaker 1:I remember I was just freaking out just when surfing was becoming such a special thing in your life, but it ended up being one of the best experiences to having that complete opposite thing to surfing. Dad threw a bird book in the back like a native Australian bird book in the back of the car and I remember looking at it and then seeing a bird, that which I'd never seen at home before, and then just and then looking up, went, oh my god, there it is. And it's sort of like, oh, it's only found in this certain area and it's like, oh, that's sort of cool. And then I because you're in the back of the car obviously no phones and any of that sort of stuff you had nothing to do but look at this bird book and I just started memorising all the birds in the book because they had the pictures, obviously, and it just at that age everything just stuck in my brain and glued and I knew the birds just were embedded in my brain, sort of thing.
Speaker 1:But, I remember getting a pen and I'd see that bird and I'd put a little cross next to the bird book and I'd be like, wow, how cool is this. And my dad was into like taking, you know, a bit of photography on the trips. And then he'd I'd go with dad and we'd like he'd like take some bird photos and I'd be like so stoked on seeing these beautiful little creatures. But after the trip I remember coming home and then just that bird addiction thing didn't go away.
Speaker 1:I was just like yeah, I was interested to know what sort of birds were in my backyard they're not just in the out in the australian bush, but um, yeah, it stuck with me for years and I just had this natural thing in my head where I go oh, that's a such and such like. I just knew it just is something that I had this little special gift with birds. But I, you know, lost interest over the years growing up or whatnot. But it's funny, it came back into my life.
Speaker 1:My wife Lorena now she sort of comes from a similar sort of background family and she's actually into that sort of thing as well look at bushwalking and looking at birds. So we sort of got back into it together of something that we did in our use and we're just it's a fun thing to do as a couple and just have something to do. It's completely opposite to surfing and it's just a fun thing to do as a couple and just, uh, have something to do. That's completely opposite to surfing and it's just a fun hobby. You know, it's a, it's just something that I really enjoy doing yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3:It makes me think of this conversation we had with this guy, jeff lawton, and he's a permaculture teacher, lives out at the shannon in the land from here and he guided us through creating a really great big food garden here on the land a few years ago but, he spoke of pattern recognition and that surfers, in his mind, would be great food growers because we have spent so many years studying patterns of wave motion and clouds and wind and everything with surfing that that when we come onto the land it doesn't take us very long to fall into that sort of really good observational state where we're looking at patterns in the landscape.
Speaker 3:And then I just think about, like the bird thing, like you having your ears so tuned in to hear Bird noises. Yeah, bird noises. It makes me think of just that crossover between a surfing life and bird observing and kind of taking in your surroundings and it's kind of cool just to hear that they're both something that's come and gone a little bit in your life but right now seem to like really light you up yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's true, isn't it? Because it's that same thing. It's like they, and I realize they're the things that make me happy at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:So why stop, you know, with either of those things surfing and bird watching but yeah, now that's. That's interesting, what you just said, ned, about the, the patterns and whatnot, but I just think it's that nature thing. Being in the surf, you know you're dealing with all the elements and I guess bird watching is the same thing too. You know, when there's no wind you get to listen to the birds, or just being out in nature in general, and knowing what you know certain trees, the birds like, and it's just the seasonal birds, everything's like. Yeah, there's definitely, like I said, the patterns yeah, what are you grateful for?
Speaker 3:when you think about where you are now and the way we've just sort of backtracked through the years and you know ups and downs and challenges in life and high highs, what makes you feel grateful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, you know, what makes me feel grateful are pretty much the simple things in life. I think, just the basic things in life, like staring out the window, taking in what the weather's doing, seeing what birds on the tree, knowing what the surf's doing, just the surroundings around you, being aware of your surroundings and just keeping it simple, because life's so busy and so hectic and you can get so lost in your head. But there's no need to. I really am just grateful to realise that you don't have to look into the future too far, you don't have to dwell on the past, just live in the moment.
Speaker 1:I'm just grateful that I sort of found those simple tools which is really hard to find that I can stop and just take in what's happening.
Speaker 2:Time is precious. Thanks for spending some of yours listening with us today. Our editor this season is the multi-talented Ben Jake Alexander. The soundtrack was composed by Shannon Sol Carroll, with additional tunes by Dave and Ben. We'll be continuing today's conversation on Instagram, where we're at waterpeoplepodcast and you can subscribe to our very infrequent newsletter to get book recommendations, questions we're pondering, behind-the-scenes glimpses into recording the podcast and more via our website, waterpeoplepodcastcom.
