Waterpeople Podcast
Stories about the aquatic experiences that shape us.
Listen with Lauren L. Hill and Dave Rastovich as they talk story with some of the most adept waterfolk on the planet.
Waterpeople is a gathering place for our global ocean community to dive into the themes of watery lives lived well: ecology, adventure, community, activism, science, egalitarianism, inclusivity, meaningful play, a sense of humour. And, surfing, of course.
Waterpeople Podcast
Chris Miyashiro: Homecomings
A captain wakes in the night certain he’s wrecked in mangroves—only he’s on his own porch. That jarring reentry from a month under sail becomes our portal into a deeper story about attention, tradition, and becoming a different kind of person at sea with artist-sailor-filmmaker Chris Miyashiro.
Chris takes us from his grandfather’s walls—painted with visions of Hōkūleʻa —to a 2,700‑mile, unsupported crossing on a double-hulled canoe that reshaped his senses and his sense of home (more on that voyage in the Ethnomads episode, forthcoming),
Chris shares how homeschool freedom and skate culture trained him to see the world as material for making, a mindset he has carried into surf/films that inspire a sense of playful wonderment. For Chris, film school offered rules and he's learned how to break them well.
We talk about “nai'a brain,” the half-sleeping state where awareness sharpens, the importance of values-grounded voyaging, and his time as a guest professor at Laguna College of Art and Design.
If you’re craving an episode that blends voyaging wisdom, creative practice, and some encouragement to get out amongst the living world, then this one's for you.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich
Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast
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To me, the fear aspect is when I'm responsible for other people's lives and I'm the captain. You hear little ticks or little slaps or little like maybe a rope is like moving the wrong way or something is just not right. What is that? And you just wake up and you're immediately like awake, and you could have been in the deepest trenches of your sleep.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the aquatic experiences that shape who we become back on land. I'm your host, Lauren Hill, joined by my partner Dave Rastovich. Here we get to talk a story with some of the most interesting and adept water folk on the planet. We acknowledge the Bunjalang Nation, the traditional custodians of the land and waters where we work and play, who have cared for this sea country for tens of thousands of years. Respect and gratitude to all First Nations people, including elders, past, present, and emerging. This season is supported by Patagonia, whose purpose-driven mission is to use business to save our home planet. Today we're in conversation with Chris Miyoshiro. He's an artist across many mediums, a surfer, sailor, and visual artist. Chris is the creator of several films, most recently A-A, a whimsical dance through the personal ancestral significance of the 26-day, 2700 nautical mile unsupported journey across the Pacific in a double-hauled canoe he recently completed with two of his best friends. Alright, Davey, tell me about being land sick.
SPEAKER_05:What would you like to know, Lauren?
SPEAKER_03:I would love for you to recount the story of what happened when I arrived home the other evening.
SPEAKER_05:Oh. Well, you're wearing that lovely long blue dress.
SPEAKER_03:And that is not the story.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, okay. Well, basically, after returning from a month-long adventure on the Warham double-hulled sailing canoe of my dreams, and I had just the most incredible time with friends in their 20s and lots of friends along the way along a stretch of coast that I've known my whole life, but not in such an intricate way as doing that by sea and under sail.
SPEAKER_03:And we'll have forthcoming episodes from that adventure. 100%.
SPEAKER_05:And so the return and the land sickness you speak of really culminated the other night when you had been out with some friends having a lovely dinner and returned probably at like eight o'clock at night, and I was already in bed with Minnow asleep for an hour. And when you came in the driveway, I guess the dogs maybe barked to announce your arrival. And I heard just enough sound to stir me. And I actually sat straight up, got out of bed, lunged out onto the deck of the house, which looks across a little creek into the forest. And standing there naked, I was like, I just shouted, Oh no!
SPEAKER_06:Oh no!
SPEAKER_05:And had a complete meltdown because as I was looking across the little creek into the bush, I was convinced that that was a mangrove river system and that I had shipwrecked our boat and the crew, and I had let my care and concentration lapse and even while sleeping and had just blown it, like literally fully blown it, and my heart was racing. I ran down the deck like 20 yards, pacing, thinking I was on the deck of the boat, going, what the uh the mangroves, I'm in the mangroves, and then I heard you walking up the stairs and saw you, and you were just puzzled by what I was doing, and my heart was racing, and I was so lost. I was it was exactly like that feeling you get when you travel overseas, perhaps swiftly by plane, and then you sleep in some transit hotel and you're severely jet lagged and you wake up in the dark room and you just have no idea where you are in the universe. Yeah, it was just like that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So I've been navigating that the last 10 days or so, just in an interesting way, but loving being out of the elements because of how fierce Australia's sun and wind is and everything. So I've actually I have been loving that respite, though I've also been longing for those long starry nights and those wide, long sunny days.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, we missed you while you were gone. We got to visit a couple of times and spend some time adventuring up near the Great Barrier Reef. But it's been so wonderful to have you home, but also to see your slow adjustment back to terrestrial life, especially in the exhaustion that you've had, like you know, you were saying being the capanna. It's an exploration of night a brain, and that's a conversation we go into and it's a chat with Chris.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, so fascinating. It's one of those things too where it's like, you know, people when they run marathons or swim long distances, if they stop, they stop. You just gotta keep rolling. And the the adventure was very much like that. We were just rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, like you know, really great disrupted sleep patterns where we'd pinch little naps in the day, or you would just sleep in a very different way. And anyone who's done night watches and sailing adventures knows exactly what we speak of. But then, yeah, stopping coming home and getting to show Kaylee and Ruddakrius our home zone and be restful and to uh really see that they also love the dip between peaks, the rest, the the space between notes, yeah, and to all be in that together. And we got a couple rainy days and just read books and chatted and eventually led to that moment of you know clicking the recorder on and prying a little more, which is always fun. How did that go for you being able to do that?
SPEAKER_03:I just loved having them here. I love being around as I'm entering my 40s now. I have an acknowledgement and understanding of how much I love being around younger people and how differently their brains are wired. Our brains are wired when we're younger. Our brains, it feels like my brain, anyway, it feels like my brain is clicked into this more kind of like logistical, patterned juggling of many things at the same time, sort of capability that I didn't have when I was younger. But when I was younger, I remember being able to be so completely awestruck and windswept by little moments, a passage in a book, a poem, a film, and being able to have all the time in the world to digest it and talk about it and make art from it and really pursue creative impulses in a way that is different now with a young child and different kinds of work and relationship and a house to look after and animals and gardens. And yeah, it's just it's a change. And so it's so refreshing when you get to be with people who are in that other sort of season of life and are really committed to their curiosity and their creativity, and it's pouring out of them and all the decisions they make throughout their day. And so that's especially true of Chris. He from the first time I encountered his work, we encountered his work that was 10 years ago. We talk about that in the chat, so we won't go into it too in depth. But um I saw something of his ability to emote through film, like to make us really feel beauty and magic and wonder. And those are like that's what I want to feel when I'm taking in a film or a piece of art or something, like anything that can provoke that sort of emotion. It feels like a really good art to me. Of all the people in the world you could have invited to jump on the boat with you or to sail up the coast toward the Great Barrier Reef and then back home over the course of a month. Why did you reach out to Chris?
SPEAKER_05:Chris's just willingness and yesness really is something I really admire in people. Just not overthinking things in saying that, but also being very thoughtful. Yeah. So I guess from seeing his films and hearing of his adventures, and then also the just the initial reach out where I reached out to him saying, Hey, I want to do this adventure, and the design of the boat that we're gonna do this on is one I'm building. And when I got my hands on a finished version and mentioned that to him, he was just laughing because he just done the same sort of you know, adventure and exploration in Warham designs and refurbishing a 26-foot version of the 30, 31-foot version we have. And so he he just had direct experience with the design of this vessel, which I thought was super interesting timing. And so when I reached out, he was just lit up, like, oh, he's got all this experience, very recent experience with that sail rig, that hull design, all of that, and then had put it really to the test by crossing from mainland America out to the Hawaiian Islands, and it was the yesness.
SPEAKER_06:He was just like, Yeah, man, let's do it.
SPEAKER_05:Um he was just like falling over himself with enthusiasm, and so it just felt right straight away. And uh, and then also it's that thing of I don't know, maybe feeling like someone who lives on the periphery of the surfing organism. I I love to be on the edge of it and not ra like really, really social. I surf alone a lot, I make a lot of choices to be on my own. And sometimes I just don't want to do that. I want to do the opposite. I want to be with people and finding you do? Yeah, and finding people who I really click with is maybe I don't know, I'm a picky person or something, but just that thing, like I said before, of being thoughtful but not dominated by thoughts, sharing space with someone in that way. I really love. And when you're on a boat, you know, everything's really enhanced in terms of personality traits. You're sharing a very small space together, you're sharing time together, like 24 hours a day time. You're making decisions together that affect everyone's safety or adventures and experiences in life. You have deep conversations, and it was like, all right, I want to go get like thrown in the deep end with someone like Chris.
SPEAKER_03:And how did he handle that?
SPEAKER_05:And it was just more wonderful than I could have ever imagined because of just this wonderful feeling of brotherliness and connection, even though you know I'm a generation older than him, come from different places, completely different life backgrounds and everything, and just to be able to connect through water is a really special thing. So to really, really feel that and put time and space into that is what I really appreciated. And it was obvious after a month of adventures and incredible conversations and inspiration from him that we had to sit down and have a chat like this.
SPEAKER_03:And a lot of laughs.
SPEAKER_05:Because that's a big part of this too.
SPEAKER_03:He's got an excellent thing.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, so fun. Just so just so fun. And you know, I'm sure everyone can relate to when you get a visitor from somewhere else coming to where you live. You just you want to show them the best of where you live and the people. And our whole adventure was like that. But they got to meet him and I think meet the best of who he is and where he comes from. That aloha spirit. He had a gift for everyone. He had he just stuffed his entire bag full of gifts for people, shirts that he'd screen printed himself, gifts that he'd made, art pieces that he's made. He he had the foresight to know that oh, I'm probably gonna meet a lot of people on this trip and I should have something for them. And that is so beautiful. Like, can you imagine being in your 20s and being that forward-thinking in such a generous way?
SPEAKER_03:It was one of the things that I learned when I moved to Australia. I I was not as quick a study as Chris obviously is, but never arrive empty-handed, even if it's something small, small, a small gesture, a flower, piece of fruit. If you can arrive with an offering that feels like an exchange of energy and forethought and care is always appreciated.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, a hundred percent. And yeah, but just seeing that in action with someone young is super admirable. And I realize, wow, his community is doing something right. And his parents, his aunties and uncles, his community in Hawaii have really grown a wonderful young man.
SPEAKER_03:Anytime we have these conversations, anyone involved inevitably has that feeling of like, oh, I should have said this or I should have said that. Do you ever have that feeling about these jobs? Like, I should have asked, never. Okay, well, okay. Most people have that feeling. Dave apparently doesn't have that. But Chris wrote to us afterward and said, I can't believe that I kooked it. I should have mentioned Sam Whitmore, Whitemore, Whitmore, who hosted him during that first moment that he mentioned in response to the first question. He says that um Sam was the first person that picked him up when he was hitchhiking his way across the Pacific, and he was never the same after that. So thank you to Sam. We all send thanks and gratitude to Sam. What else? Housekeeping for this episode. It's one of two parts. This episode is with Chris on his own, and then in part two, we invite his, as he says, Wahine, Kaili, to chat about the adventure that they had together jumping aboard their 26-foot-six-foot warm hell, uh-uh, yeah. Of which he made a film that hopefully you'll all get to watch. Also, you'll hear Minnow wandering into the conversation and Kaili toward the end of the chat. It was early in the evening, feeling sort of later at night, so the energy is hello. And we're in our little yellow culture club, huddling over our mics and stealing the last few moments of time with Chris and Kaili. Chris, we always begin the podcast by asking about a time or experience after which you were never the same. Will you share a story like that with us today?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I didn't prepare for that one. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:That's like the one that's the one you knew we were gonna think about.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was dark, and there was like 2,000 nautical miles behind me, probably more, 2,700 nautical miles behind me. Came up from Kahiki Nui in the South Pacific Ocean, and there was a light fuzz on the horizon, and I knew it was my home. And that was the first time I'd ever crossed an ocean. And it was a really special time because I had just begun begun my voyaging quest, and it was a homecoming trip, and I always heard the stories of when you hear an island rise above the sea, you're never the same. And this time it was my home rising above the ocean, and and I just knew then that like all of my ocean was connected to everything else, and it was the first time I ever went somewhere and it felt like I never left, kind of a thing, and that was a really beautiful experience. And three years later, four years later, I ended up having the same experience but on a double-hole canoe that was my own, and I had my best friend Kalani and my Wahee Neki with me, and I knew then that I was never the same because that happened.
SPEAKER_05:What changes? Like, how do you change when you live through that? Is there a way you could look at Misto before that and Mistos after that and be like, oh yeah, that's one different brother?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, I would say I had a little bit of self-confidence, I guess, before. Like, oh, I am people in my area know that I've getting into sailing and I'm doing all this stuff and I'm really passionate about it, but I didn't have the miles under my belt. So when I crossed an ocean, it it felt like everything was a bit more connected and that the land above the horizon was more possible. And just to know that, just to know that you're able to do these great feats and go on these adventures and come back with new stories to tell and and new oceans learned definitely changes you.
SPEAKER_05:And was that something that you had like long envisioned? Or was it something that kind of just bubbled up relatively quickly? Because you're only in your mid to late 20s. How early in your life were such voyages in your field of awareness?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I feel growing up, like being in my grandpa's house, he was a big fan of Herb Kane, who was a painter, and he was the original genesis of Hokulea. He was the one that dreamt it up and was the artist behind the vision. And I always grew up seeing his paintings on the wall, and it was really inspiring to me because they'd be these elaborate voyaging canoes and these people who you you don't really know where they're going, but the way that they're presented and the way the voyaging canoe was painted, that they're on a great expedition across an ocean with you would see their their all their food and their kids and their wives, and they're just out to explore new islands. And I always thought that was just like a really noble, beautiful thing that was just so archaic and and in its own time. And then I remember, I think I was a young teenager, Hokulea had made their way back from their worldwide voyage, and it was this huge ceremony, like probably the biggest ceremony I've ever seen in my life. And I remember standing on the rocks at Ala Moana Bowls and like all these running around all these spots. I grew up surfing and seeing this voyaging canoe come in, and I didn't know anything about it, but I knew they had just come around the world because people were like, This is their homecoming from the worldwide, and the whole island was there. And I just remember, wow, this is just like those paintings, but in the modern day, I want to do that one day, and then fully forgot about it. I think my surfing life really took off, and I just fell fully in love with the ocean for the next 10 years, and then I got the opportunity to go to Hokula's dry dock one day, and I I started, you know, just hanging out, getting to know everyone, and eventually went got to go on some training sales, and it was a real privilege to talk to Uncle Nainoa and get to be under his teaching. And and yeah, I ended up going on my own path from some serendipitous events, and the rest is history. I started hitchhiking way around the ocean, is what they call it. Being a little vagabond and got to explore the ocean from down as far as Tahiti all the way up to Alaska and got to go explore the little islands around the equator and eventually coming to California and finding our sailing vessel uh uh over there.
SPEAKER_03:Before we get to Ah, can you talk to us about your upbringing, where you grew up, and the cultural heritage in which you grew?
SPEAKER_02:Sure, yeah. So I was born and raised in Oahu, Hawaii. Um my grandparents lived on the east side, and I grew up in Wannalua Valley, so I would go between the two a lot. And my dad was heavily into surfing, and he and my mom homeschooled me, and they raised me and my sister really simply, and we grew up playing and doing our homework at home as fast as we could so we could do other things, and I grew up with that freedom to be able to kind of make life what you wanted it to be. And I remember that I would be doodling a lot in my math books because I didn't like doing math, and I was always drawing these canoes, these sailing canoes. It just was somehow in my brain, maybe from grandpa's photos on the wall, but that kind of planted the seed, and that was how I got into the creative lifestyle that I am in now. And yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Did you have artists around you? Like handcraft artists or drawers, anyone who was forging that kind of living.
SPEAKER_02:My mom was my homeschool teacher, and she, you know, taught me the basics, math and writing and history, and then my dad was into business. He was a sales rep in the surf industry, and uh I had some friends that were oh skateboarding, that's where it all took off. Yeah. So uh so my dad came home one day with a skateboard from one of his trade show visits, and I think I was about six or seven, and that fully changed my life.
SPEAKER_03:What kind of a skateboard?
SPEAKER_02:It was a Paul Peralta Bones Bearings Independent Trucks 7.5 skateboard, and I was underneath my skill. Oh, you remember it. Oh well. And yeah, that board was underneath my pillow, and I woke up and and the rest is history. I just became a little skate rat. I would build ramps in the backyard, and I feel like that altered my mind and it helped me see the world in a more creative way because suddenly a curb that me and my dad took from the side of the road became like my playground for the next month, and like a street sign that was just littered in the street was a little base plate to your mini ramp, and you would just start making all these things, and then you know, when you get old enough and you can travel around the island more, suddenly my skateboard was like my transportation and my my little artist notebook. And I remember getting into all the old Powell videos and watching the Bones Brigade and Animal Chin, and those videos really just showed me that the world is a full playground, and I I think that's where the art began.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of people are coming to homeschool now or came to homeschool as an alternative to conventional mainstream schooling during COVID. And I think a lot of parents are questioning educational direction. How was homeschool for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, I feel like there could be the concern that your kid might not have the most um social life, but I beg to differ. It just depends on the environment that we're in. And for me, growing up in Hawaii, there was uncles and aunties everywhere, and they would always be either taking care of you or telling you when you blew it, or telling your parents when you blew it, and that was a big fear. So I I grew up with a lot of older people around me, especially as a skateboarder. I would, you know, my mom would drop me off of the skate park, and the people bringing me home are my friend's parents or some uncle and auntie that's like 25 years old, they would drive me home, and I feel like that really shaped my worldview because it kind of gave me the um the sense of community, and then as far as doing my homework at home, I had already developed these passions, very fortunate to have in my life, and it became a way for me to get my schoolwork done faster, so that taught me discipline. So I feel like it just depends on like who you surround yourself with, we're all just products of our environment, and I'm so fortunate to be from an island where everything's small. So I feel like there shouldn't be a concern as long as you know the kids are in the right area where they're meant to be.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I can't help but think like your ability to think laterally and creatively in every way, like in every moment of the day since we've been hanging out. I feel like you're ready to creatively look at a moment or a challenge or a problem to solve, and that would have to stem from that kind of freedom as a kid. Do you think of that much and think of that experience of yeah, not being in an institution for learning and having that kind of openness? Or do you just feel like that's just you?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't think about it too much, I would say, because uh I didn't really know any different. You know, I would a lot of my friends were homeschooled too, and they grew up in that environment where their parents were surfers and they uh believed in having freedom and artistic skills at a young age. And then it wasn't until I got to college where I really realized how different learning systems is, and I really cherished it then. I was a full-on nerd, would sit in my classroom and I would just be drawing all my notes and like making these beautiful diagrams, and I would spend all my time in the library because I lived in a van and that was like the only place to like take naps and stuff, so I would just be reading books and hanging out, and yeah, I feel like I'm really grateful for both sides of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_05:That's cool. So, how did you get to that point? How did you get to the college point? Where was where was that? And yeah, what's that story?
SPEAKER_02:Hmm. I remember my parents were always, you know, really supportive about me getting a higher education. My sister went to college in California, so I kind of was watching her, and then I had a bunch of friends that were going to college at the same time, and I just remember sitting in the east side of Oahu, and I had uh one of these big brothers, he was kind of a mentor to me at the time, and uh I was asking him if it was really that important because you could go on YouTube and learn anything these days, and I remember him telling me that he was like, Bruh, you gotta make a change in your life or see what is really important. And I really remember him saying that he's like, Go, bruh, you have nothing left to lose. Home is always gonna be there. And right as he said that, I went home and I checked my email and I had a scholarship. So I just thought the two things were signs, and off I went. And so where was went? Where did you go? Oh, I went to Azusa in California, it was a college that was inland LA, and I met honestly, I met most of my like super Hawaiian friends at that school, and they had a profound impact on me because I was away from home, and so were they, and they were really proud of their culture. A lot of them were fluent in Alelo Hawaii, and a lot of them had big families on all the other islands, and I feel like that community just came to me or it came to us all. We just stuck together out there, and one of which was Kalani Alapay, who is one of my best prados to this day, and he was the one that we continue to cross oceans and do adventures together. So, yeah, when going away was really important for me.
SPEAKER_03:I think for most people, there's something about leaving the safety of your familiar that helps you appreciate it so much. I know that's been true for me too. Probably maybe for you too. Maybe the opposite.
SPEAKER_05:I've pretty much just always been the surf rat. Micro voyaging micro voyages. Yeah, but maybe it's different it's opposite to me because I was traveling so much as a kid, all I want is home. Yeah. All I've ever wanted was just to be home. Um so that's well, in a way it was.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I feel like you were you to me growing up were like the example of someone kind of going in a different direction. So in a way, that's change. You're like seeking the change in your life, and yeah. I feel like if you never got all free spirited out, then the younger people wouldn't have seen that and there would be less of that in this world. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Chris, you mentioned your dad was a surfer. Was he the primary influence in terms of your watery life, or who who else was mentoring young Chris into being the incredible waterman that you are today?
SPEAKER_02:For sure. Definitely at a young age, you know, when you're a a Grom, like you don't really have super close friends unless you were born into the whole surf community right away. But all of his friends were his age, and I just remember my lights getting turned on at 4:35 in the morning, and he didn't say anything. I just knew, oh, I gotta get my board and we're going in the car, and I was get in the car and fall asleep, and then we'd get to the beach and I would paddle out. And I I was like, you know, not super stoked on it at the time, it was kind of just like the everyday habit. But looking back, it definitely gave me the wings to fly to where I am now. So yeah, my dad was super influential in that world for sure. And the first board I ever had had Dave Rostovich quad fins, and there was a John Carper. Oh, what is it called? Thug burger.
SPEAKER_00:That's hilarious. Thugburger.
SPEAKER_02:The thing was a literal pill, as wide in the front as it was in the back, with four of your psychedelic pattern quad fins on it.
SPEAKER_04:That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_05:Well, things have only gotten better from there, I guess. And it's still writing the same words, but it's all good. Okay, so you a few years ago you made uh a short movie that we came across and it was our first encounter of you, Dancing Days of Dawn. Can you believe that was actually almost a that was a decade ago?
SPEAKER_02:Holy shit. Yeah. That is a that was that was more than a decade ago because I think late teenager. Yeah, I was like fit, I was like 17 or 18 or 19 or somewhere on there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Oh shit. Yeah. Okay, so we watched that, and is there any way people can see that if they're listening now? They could go on Interweb and Yeah, I think. Oh, it's so embarrassing.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's on Amazon. Oh whatever.
SPEAKER_03:And they can flip we can flick you some box.
SPEAKER_02:I think I get like 12 cents per pack. I was just like a young teenager and someone wanted to buy it, and I was like, all right.
SPEAKER_03:In the dancing days of dawn.
SPEAKER_02:In dancing days of dawn. In dancing days of done. I think it's two dollars.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome.
SPEAKER_02:So we can definitely worth the two dollars. And it's done.
SPEAKER_03:We were so, we were so it was Or just email me if anyone wants to watch films.
SPEAKER_02:I'm happy to send it to them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I've been uh on the jury of the Florida Surf Film Festival for a few years now. Well, more than a few years actually, because that was ten years ago.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and we saw Chris's film and were so moved and lit up by the beauty and the romance and the deep feeling, and like it just was the opposite of the other films in the best way, like emotive and storied and sensitive and unjaded and it just made us really want to go surfing together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And um I don't know how how how is it it was exactly so that was that was such a breath of fresh air for a couple jaded old surf rats that had been in the surf scene. Nah nah but it was a it was yourself. Well I was anyway I was ready to just stick my head in my garden and not do anything in the surfing world at that time. But it was such a breath of fresh air and and now having the great opportunity to get to know you and understanding that it was actually just real it was like just you so you would capture the sounds of surfing along a wave and hooting like you do every day like you did today just listening to you laugh and hoot out in the lineup and I'm like oh yeah no wonder he put that in his video and his other videos because that's you that's you doing your thing and and that was a real refresher because it was such a scene of just putting surfing action with a soundtrack and not including those elements of the surfing experience and then all now actually understanding that you have all of your frying bacon and other fancy film studio soundtrack. Yeah poly nerd voice novel poly nerd yeah so like all knowing actually that makes it even cooler because it's just like yeah you just care so much to make to want to make something that makes a moment for people. That's what it seems like from the outside for us and for for me especially is that you just you you're drawing and then you want to turn that into something that you can give to people. You're making something and then you want to turn that into a a piece of fabric that people can wrap around themselves or something they can wear or watch or experience and it just seems like that's a pervasive thing through all of the mediums you're interested in the things you create. So what I'm interested in is you went to college and then you got a whole bunch of new tools in your kit. What happened after that? Because those institutions I'm a little afraid of in terms of like perhaps you people coming out the other round a bit formulaic or learning things that everyone else has learnt.
SPEAKER_03:But how were you different after that and what came after yeah your college experience I feel like Dave's dancing around the idea of institutions as being like homogenizing forces and putting out people who are good workers but who all think the same and not creatively but you manage to avoid that.
SPEAKER_02:I I I would have to say I agree with you. I think for the most part they are but I think it just takes the right mentor maybe the right person steering you the other way and showing you that there's a box that they teach you in and if you know the box and you know how to break the box but you know that the box is there then it's to your benefit and I remember you know in school you learn oh I went to film school surprisingly but I learned a bunch of things about screenwriting and storytelling and even the set things that I haven't really used. I've never worked on a set since but I remember there was a lot of times where I just didn't agree with things because a lot of the films I loved like Terrence Malik and the real RT directors didn't really follow those rules but just knowing how they were made was really inspiring and then it was actually my sound design class that I discovered the frying bacon as rain technique he was the one that was telling me that the real deal is when you learn all of the tools but you know how to use them to twist everything and and break all the rules and that was really cool and I loved I love that and going back to the sound design thing the idea that you can make all these beautiful noises and all these things that you don't really hear in the film because it's so real and they're not what you think they are like ET's legs being jello and bacon being rain and then you could be use like twisting metal pans to create like a like an effect that doesn't sit well with your brain. I feel like those things are really important to know that there's ways around things when most people would want to record the l literal thing. That's so great. Yeah that's so awesome.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like in so many ways learning the rules of something like with writing you learn the rules you learn the structure and then you know how to break them well. Yeah like and and that's indicative of really knowing your craft.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah so you just use the shape of a box to describe that experience then we fast forward a bit in time and you're being invited to be like a guest lecturer at a circular design school and or location I'm not sure if it's a school whatever it was but um can you tell us about that how that happened what happened and how that sits with you now looking back on it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow yeah that that actually wasn't too long ago I'd say three or four years ago shout out to Professor Dan Mariner is the professor of circular design at the Laguna College of Art and Design which was incredible for me to go to because just going out there and for one getting to know Dan and his personality the guy puts a Christmas tree upside down so that he can have more room for life below and it's easier to clean up and the smell is better. Like that's the way that guy operates on every level and in his classroom too he's teaching these students how to take an idea in the design world and which you know is very materialistic and we're always like working in non-ethical ways and taking things that already exist into their designs and making things such as like rubber made out of maybe I shouldn't say that that was her idea. Anyway Professor Dan is an expert teacher to me because he just gives people the freedom and he he tells them that there's alternate ways around doing things and he invited me to actually show in Dancing Days of Dawn for the first time. Actually it was COVID so it was Zoom unfortunately but I eventually got to travel out to Laguna and it was my second film A Whistle of Wilderness that he had me show at the school and I remember it was you know whatever I showed the film and I gave this talk and I was a little nervous because all these college students were pretty similar age to me so I was like oh what am I doing here? And this one girl was from Hawaii and she was had the emotional you could see it in her eyes and she was just blown away like how are you here? Like I miss home so much and that to me was like whoa that's like a way to make people feel things through my film is the sense of home and flash forward a couple years later I had our sailing canoe ah-a which we'll dive into and she was in Laguna at the time and Dan and I were reflecting on that how can we make people get a better sense of home and that was when he had the wild idea of taking a sailing and taking all of the students in his class out and we would have these conversations out way miles outside of Laguna where was their new home was there doing their school and reflect about how circularity is involved in their work because this whole earth is an island the concept of everything being an island island earth and and it was a it was a really beautiful experience because for me I have never really been in a position of teaching and I didn't really view myself ever to be there until that moment it really clicked and some of the students had a very emotional replies which I didn't expect how one canoe could create so much positive change but I remember listening to the the Valedictorian is that what the speech is Valedictorian Valedictorian. Yeah and she was mentioning how that was like a beautiful part to end her college and how she was going out into the world using those examples of voyaging.
SPEAKER_03:If you've enjoyed listening to the conversation so far consider also subscribing to Waterpeople on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It'll help other people find the show. And if you're feeling inspired leave us a review. We love hearing from you. And now a word from the folks who help make the podcast possible. Patagonia is in business to save our home planet. Founded by Yvon Chenard in 1973, Patagonia is a surf and outdoor apparel company based in Ventura California. As a certified B Corp and a founding member of 1% for the planet the company is recognized internationally for its product quality and environmental activism, as well as its contributions of nearly$230 million to environmental organizations. Its unique ownership structure reflects that the earth is its only shareholder. Profits not reinvested back into the business are paid as dividends to protect the planet. Learn more at patagonia.com.au supplements and special diets to maintain our health but ignore the obvious we are water it's what we're made of and it's what supports every bodily function. Primal water, the water our ancestors thrived on, is energized, alkaline and made for real hydration. It doesn't come from the industrialized, often contaminated water systems most of us rely on. For the last 25 years, Alkaway has been researching and refining ways to mimic natural water systems. We invite you to learn more about primal water and support their charitable work with BirdLiAustralia. Head to alkaway calm a$50 discount using code WaterPeople. That's alkaway calm What do you do when your sunglass lenses inevitably get scuffed or scraped the top drawer of our kitchen island was where scratched sunglasses went to die until we learned about the sunglass fix. They've been at the forefront of the repair revolution since 2006 and carry more than 6000 lens options. So there's a solution for every frame. We found our senies on thesunglassfix.com and within a few days received brand new polarized lenses to easily install at home. A billion pairs of sunglasses are made each year with hundreds of millions ending up in landfill. The SunglassFix offers free lens shipping in Australia and to 161 countries around the world as well as subsidized express tracked shipping worldwide for less than$5 in any currency. They're a proud member of 1% for the planet and are ready to help make your favorite frames last longer. Use the code Waterpeople for 10% off your purchase today at thesunglassfix.com So you got the validation from the valedictorian but what led you to film in the first place like I think of you as an artist who works across so many different medium but film is I guess where you really started putting a lot of time and energy into making longer form projects. What led you there?
SPEAKER_02:I would say it was my early like one of my best friends forever Koyakoda is one of my early bratas and we would always be surfing he surfed way better than me and I would always remember like wanting to film him and I remember one day we I had my GoPro and I had a little stick and I would shove it in my board shorts and we were doing these follow cams which were in in Dancing days of dawn. He was on the little red fish and we were just we were laughing so hard we were like choking on our like we were like crying out there. And everyone's like bro what are these two little idiots doing out here and we were just in the inside just doing laps around everyone like everyone was you know just sitting out there waiting for our waves and we'd be squealing and and then we surfed into the night and we're like oh that was the best session ever and then we went home we were like looking at our footage and we're like oh my god when we watch this when we're 40 years old we're gonna be crying this is like priceless footage and that was kind of it I remember oh I could merge like my fun surfy skate world with all these things in in the film thing and start making these longer length pieces and I didn't really expect people to watch it I kind of wanted it to be a time capsule. And then I had a mentor Dewey who owns Kikoa Collective at the time and he had watched some of the videos that we had made and he just really wanted me to share it with the world and God bless him he was he's the greatest mentor he just prodded me to share it. I was in my little bubble and we organized this event at his jujitsu yoga place and showed the film and yeah I just seeing people get together and hang out and talk stories and knowing that that was a culprit of just us playing around with a GoPro was really beautiful to me and that's kind of where I decided like okay I should just keep doing these.
SPEAKER_03:It's amazing what happens when you put yourself out there huh yeah scary couldn't have imagined that people from across the whole world would end up seeing the film and then like hoping that you'd come and hang out with us and then having adventures and getting to play together in the water because you were brave enough to and attracting like minded people because not a lot of people can understand the language of laughter like you guys.
SPEAKER_02:So it's cool like when you put yourself out there the people that really find that attractive and fun to be around end up being your friends which wouldn't have happened much the other way.
SPEAKER_05:So that really what really spoke to me too when we saw your early stuff was your riding a laya and doing so with like quirky designs and big swallowtail ones and funky shapes and just having so much fun and that was so refreshing. And I just came across this list in a book that was among our library that just fell out that I was going to write some notes in this is like our think book for water people stuff. Whoa we only have written one page in the whole damn thing. We didn't get very far but the first page is a doozy I'm really psyched on it and I wanted to hear your thoughts when I say these lines so after I say one line you tell me what comes to your mind when you hear this so like a one word kind of a thing or yeah sure whatever comes to your mind so this is like a l a list here and the top one is thoughts for conversing so that's like the title. So this is the list plumbing the depths anything come to your mind when you hear plumbing the depths don't forget to equalize.
SPEAKER_02:Nice lighting the corners I I think of incense and being warm and staying in in the happy place I like it extending a hand ah just being helpful when when aunties and uncles come over you don't you don't shy.
SPEAKER_05:I think you do that in probably the most admirable way I've seen anyone do that young or old actually considering we've just spent a month together and being on a boat and realizing you pretty much have an extended hand at all times.
SPEAKER_03:It's very honourable so I see I don't attribute that to me I was taught well yeah you were taught well for sure learning how to be useful same thing if you see a puka fill them that might be a bad term what's a puka what definition for Puka I love it sharing skills wait sorry I feel like this is related too but a lot of us did not grow up getting educated on how to be helpful and how to be useful. What advice do you have for us if we want to start being more helpful more useful how do we how do we or how do we steer our kids in that direction?
SPEAKER_02:Maka Hanaka Ike is a term in Hoi learn by doing and I would say that there's no one to look at if you're not doing it and I kind of felt that way you know when I was hanging out with little Minnow is it if he doesn't understand how a va-a works and how many hands make it move together and I'm not doing it he has no one to follow so just making it known like here little brother this is what we do we gotta wash our dishes if no one's if the dishes are sitting there you wash them or if you know this needs a wash or this needs a scrub you get all the limo off or if someone's tired take over and steer and take over.
SPEAKER_05:He echoed your voice we were doing some housework after we'd come back from visiting you all on the boat and we were washing the decks and he was like decks aren't gonna clean themselves I feel like it was a direct echo from Uncle Uncle's gotta be unclear's boy clean up that people that's right 100% because we tune our parents out because we hear our their voices all the time so he's already tuning us out but when he hears you all it's another thing.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry it's important like this is such an important topic because we live in a culture that is so steered toward the self. We're so encouraged to prop ourselves up and make ourselves different and that's so counter to what you're talking about which is generosity and noticing and acting on how you can be of service to the people around you. Like that is that is the heart of what a real community is and most of us do not know how to do that. We're not encouraged to to behave in that way toward one another. Like it's a fundamental paradigm shift in how we move through the world how you move through the world and it's so beautiful to see.
SPEAKER_02:Oh well then again I attribute it to my home I think Hawaii has that superpower of sharing to the world the spirit of Aloha and it's a place of many cultural backgrounds and a lot of them you know are like Japanese kind very family and respect oriented and Hawaiian values of taking care of the land and taking care of each other because that's our lifeline and I feel like just growing up in that scene definitely really helps and and you know people always want something from Hawaii and I feel like if they could just take back that value of to malama to care for each other then that's like the greatest thing that Hawaii could ever give to the world and and I see it in everything now.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah and you live in it it's so great. There's quite a list here but the one no this is great the the one that really jumps out at me as a sentence that could have been written by you is the infinite fluctuation of balance. Whoa I feel like you speak like that. That's just your general poetic way what comes to your mind when you hear it one more time. Try say one more time the infinite fluctuation of balance one word to reply to the picture picture in your mind what what do you see in your mind or film or a song or a color I I see like you you know that pattern that you love this seed of life pattern.
SPEAKER_02:I see that like on the on the ocean and it's moving where everything has like rhythm to it but it it's all in some way a pattern and you know I don't never really did any psychedelic drugs but I hear everyone talk about that that there's pattern work in everything but I really believe that it's true.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah and that just was that makes me think of I like that that's a poetic response my response to that thing that I see now having spent time on board uh our double hulled canoe is you winding the windows up and down every time the boat would rock and it was one of the best things I've ever seen on the boat because you'd your hands would go this this way and then that way but you'd never fall you'd never fall but it was a theatrical way of staying balanced that's maximism.
SPEAKER_02:If you feel it you really should body it okay particles and waves well waves are made of particles I'm assuming because is a particle just anything can it be just any kind of matter you see it. Well I see particles is just like space dust like everything is made of all these moving organisms what was the question just no question just particles and particles and waves what comes to your mind uh kind of that whole idea that the ocean is consisting of a thousand drops and that the moving sandbank is just a bunch of sand speckles.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah hey you can come in and listen if you want me now we're just talking stories.
SPEAKER_03:Did the movie finish?
SPEAKER_02:Cool come come take a seat we're just rattling rattling off a list here of things of words that can miss Dangler oh this is a good one okay boats are safe in harbour but that's not what they're built for yeah well being a boat owner myself now I can understand that more than ever we just had a tsunami alert or a tsunami warning it said it was coming within four hours and I was only 15 minutes away but the whole island was going crazy and they're all scurrying around and it took me four hours to get there so I was getting there right before this thing was about to hit and I just remember seeing a she was on this little wood dock that she's on right now and I was just imagining the tsunami dropping and then her bow going under and like clipping the edge and then it was it was all over she'd just probably break in half so I didn't have an engine at the time so I jumped out with my dock lines and I was just breaststroking my way out to see like into the channel I just gotta get her off of the land and and I remember as soon as I got her into the open water it just felt safer and just because you know you you feel more in control of your vessel when you're far away from land and you're out in the middle of the ocean and I would fully agree with that. So anytime that you feel like you're preparing for something too long that's just a sign you've got to get out of there before the tsunami comes.
SPEAKER_05:Yep. So the reason you're sitting in this room in the house and we're able to do this fantastically in person is because uh I reached out a hand and of course you had an extended hand out already and asked for you to come and join us on our Warham double held sailing vessel and share skills because I am uh inexperienced sailor when it comes to vessels of you know 30 foot size sail rigs different than Hobie sail rigs because I've only ever really sailed Hobie stuff and then also just your waterman experience and joy around surfing and especially surfing LAE and everything. And you said yes straight away you were just psyched and you came down and we just spent the last month going from our northern rivers region and travelling up and into the rivers and surf breaks that go from here all the way up to the Great Barrier Reef which is around 350 odd plus nautical miles away. Um why did you say yes and how was this last month for you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh loaded question that one well I kind of live every month as it comes and I don't really have solid set plans or a solid work line. So when you reached out to me I my month was pretty much like free I had a couple murals I had to do and I immediately called them I gotta I gotta get them done in the next couple weeks. I'm going to Australia and I said yes obviously because the path in the community you've already paid for yourself is really evident in your guys' water people podcast and your surfing career and I just knew that the values were the same and to me the values are the most important things when going on a trip with people. Especially you know if you haven't spent too much time with them if you know you're on a similar value track then you're going for the right reasons and to know that you were going to protect your waterways or to shed awareness of people doing great things and telling good stories that was just definitely something I wanted to be a part of and it was hard to turn that down because I haven't been doing things in that world so I just wanted to learn. So I came maybe you were thinking you were gonna learn some stuff from me but I was like I'm gonna school right now and yeah packed my bags and left packed my foul weather gear and left.
SPEAKER_03:What do you take away from this last month in Australia?
SPEAKER_02:Well I think going back to just seeing your land from far away this is my second time here so I don't have too much history with this place. But being able to learn about the places we went through from an oceanic perspective and hearing Josh's stories or all of the people's stories really the Aboriginal auntie that shed her like country um welcome to country talk and the people protecting the ocean I just came to realize that all my voyages were I would reflect on them in like a self like a self-contemplative like inner dialogue way but this was the first ocean voyage I've ever been on where I really felt the sense of community and belonging to place in that way of people caring for where they're from and just taking away that I could do more for where I come from and to see that little actions built on top of each other create a big change and to know that what you're doing is not only protecting your river but all the rivers are going to be faced with all of these questions. And yeah that was really inspiring to me. So just the sailing stuff is the fun adventure part but the things that really resonate are the values and I left with the with the same values we started off with. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:As we were traveling up and down this coast we did a lot of night passages and that was just for many reasons but I know for me personally I was wanting to do that so that I could get as much time with you under the stars as possible because we just had a mutual awe and wonderment when we were sailing under the stars and able to look at it and for me it was such a stoker to see you looking up and making sense of the southern hemisphere's sky and seeing at the beginning you were just so kind of lost like you were like whoa everything's not where it's supposed to be and this is so trippy and oh no hang on there's uh oh oh I can breathe better or whatever it was like but then over time you started to very quickly I thought familiarise yourself with the indicators in our southern sky and associated with those sort of nights is the thing of intermittent rest you know getting a little shut eye so your eyes can have a break and then coming back to life and fulfilling roles as a as a team you know steering and backing up whoever's steering with navigating and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:And we came up with the dolphin brain kind of line of just silliness about describing that state we get into what's your take on that I would have to say dolphin brain for sailors and canoe people is 50% fear and 50% understanding. So to me the fear aspect is when I'm responsible for other people's lives and I'm the captain on this voyage which you were you hear little ticks or little slaps or little like maybe a rope is like moving the wrong way or something is just not right. What is that? And you wake up and you're immediately like awake and you could have been the deepest trenches of your sleep and you're immediately awake and then the other side of it comes from just being so in tune with your vessel when you spend a lot of time like Papa Mao who is like the original teacher of all of us he would be there's stories of him in the bottom of the canoe and he would just be sleeping and he would feel the rhythms and the slaps and the holes and be able to tell Uncle if he was off course or not and to me that's just complete mastery like that is there's so much magic in that but in a little bit of a way that kind of leeches into you when you become really involved and responsible for your craft and I remember that you were sleeping and I was steering and it was in the middle of the day and we had just pulled an all-nighter and you were getting your night of brain your little 15 minute snooze and the wind had changed a couple degrees and picked up maybe two knots and it was in the matter of five seconds that the cross freeze went over your eyes and I saw your eyes open I was like yup that's the night of brain and we just knew immediately we should put the jib up. I think we should cut the engine this is enough wind to sail and I think it just yeah it's in it's just being in tune with your vessel.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah I love it. I love it so much because those feelings make us feel like actually connected to the living space around us when you respond so quickly and I recall the last night of the trip when we were hooking it all day this was probably 12 hours into the trip and burning with speed all day full sails out just surfing on such a great downwind bender and then when the night came and we were trucking along south of Ballinna and the wind switched west and brought with it that warm desert wind from the centre of Australia and Kaile yourself myself and Milo were all on deck I feel like we're all not wanting to miss the last few hours of what was such a great adventure and so we're all probably quite tired because it was one in the morning but we were standing there and we each felt that warm wind touch our cheeks on our faces and called it on each other like you feel that instantly and and that's a tiny thing like it's trivial I guess to hear but when you experience it it feels like intimacy feels like you're you're there with your living world and you're intimately connected. It didn't take hours for you to go Oh, the wind switched. Ha, funny that, isn't it? Because we were busy doing stuff. It's a wonderful feeling.
SPEAKER_03:I'm trying to think about it as someone who wasn't there. And I'm thinking about how so much of our lives inside of walls, in front of screens and machines are unchangeable in that way, in spontaneous living ways that call us to adapt with our bodies and with our craft.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like that's a I feel like just being away from land and being away from the comforts of land, you tap into a different type of human. I remember when I was sailing to the Marquesas Islands, I could smell this beautiful fragrance of the soil. It was almost like incense. And I could smell the underlayer of the soil, and I could smell all these little like organisms and mushrooms, and I could just see it in my mind. And I I there was just nothing but ocean around me. And I remember, well, I'm not a land guy at all. Like I don't I wish I had a green thumb. I'm not I'm not no land guy, but I could I just could smell the land and I could see the direction it was coming from in my mind, and that never existed on on land for me. And I just know that when you put yourself into these situations, I think the human brain just just rem is reminding you, do you remember this sweet part of home? And that's kind of what brings you to the island. And I also remember that when we were sailing back home to Hawaii, there was just clouds stacked on top of the horizon. And I'm not the most like in detail observer. I definitely see all of these uncles and aunties that have that sparkle in their eye that they can see things, and I'm always kind of missing them, partial to my bad eyesight. But I remember seeing these clouds just stacked on the horizon, like a little it was like kappa, which is Hawaiian bark cloth that my girlfriend K Ely makes, and it looked like Koppa was enshrouding this little stone and it they just weren't moving, and all the trade wind clouds were moving past them, and and I just remember seeing this thing on the horizon. It was like a little beacon, and I feel like just because I didn't see that for such a long time, even though it was a foggy thing in my poor little eyes, I was like, there's a cloud that's not moving. And a couple days went by and it was the Haleyakala mountain and Mauna Kea Mountains, and those things really bring you home. And I feel like just being away from them is pretty important. It shows you how important it is.
SPEAKER_03:Time is precious. Thanks for spending some of yours listening with us today. Our editor this season is the multi-talented Ben Jake Alexander. The soundtrack was composed by Shannon Soul Carroll with additional tunes by Dave and Ben. We'll be continuing today's conversation on Instagram, where we're at Water People Podcast. And you can subscribe to our very infrequent newsletter to get book recommendations, questions we're pondering, behind-the-scenes glimpses into recording the podcast, and more via our website waterpeoplepodcast.com.
SPEAKER_01:How's it everybody? We stay over here. This brother right here is Mr. Sasquatch. Hey, how's it Mr. Sasquatch? What you got for say to the people?
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh, I was out there surfing the past and this one brother and dropping behind me and so short. And you ain't cut back and you know the brother was still there. And I said, Oh hey, cousin, how dare you drop in on me? And I said, eh, easy, Miss Dustas Quatch, go easy on him. The brother's just trying his best. Eh, that guy don't know nothing about you. Ain't paddled out here. And he said, I've been surfing here since I was one baby. I remember you when you was in your parties. And I said, eh, it's okay, my brother. Everybody's got one story. And it's okay for that just guys dropping on you. I was so shaking up. I just was seeing red, cousin. Ah Well, over here, we at the Rostovich compound and they teach us love and equality of all wave sliding beams on this earth. Oh, Uncle can teach me how to do that. Oh, I was so frustrated. First thing you gotta do is breathe, cousin. You're ready. Take an inhale like this. Try him, try him, try him.
