Soli Bailey: Maps to Now

There's no straight lines in the ocean - nor in a surfing life.

We sit with professional surfer and Bundjalung waterman Soli Bailey to trace his lines from early talent and success, through the grind of competing and a life-threatening neck injury, to a grounded love of surfing that’s deeper than any accolades.

Soli opens up about the quiet crisis that arrived during lockdowns: paddling out and not wanting to be there. He breaks down how stepping off the contest treadmill, and reconnecting with community brought the spark back.

Then comes the hard turn: a violent injury, neurosurgeons warning he was lucky to walk, and the decision to have surgery. Soli shares what recovery taught him about slowing down, caring for his body, and holding ambition without letting it hollow you out. 

We revisit his dream run—Cloudbreak’s drainers, Shipstern’s step-ladders, and hidden points—and why he doesn’t need “bigger, faster, farther” to feel complete. Along the way, he honors the people who steadied him: a steadfast stepmum, a patient partner, mentors, and sponsors who backed a freesurf path over results.

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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich

Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander

Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll

Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray   + Ben J Alexander

Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast 

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Thanks to our generous sponsors this season:

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Transcript

Opening Scare And Perspective Shift

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There was a point there where I was sitting in front of neurosurgeons and doctors, and I'm like, so okay, when can I get to surf again? And they're looking at me like, surf, you're lucky to be walking. I think about that quite often. I'm like, what would anyone's life look like and have to fight back from that moment.

Introducing Soli Bailey

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the aquatic experiences that shape who we become back on land. I'm your host, Lauren Hill, joined by my partner Dave Rastevich. Here we get to talk story with some of the most interesting and adept water folk on the planet. We acknowledge the Bunjalong Nation, the traditional custodians of the land and waters where we work and play, who have cared for this sea country for tens of thousands of years. Respect and gratitude to all First Nations people, including elders, past, present, and emerging. This season is supported by Patagonia, whose purpose-driven mission is to use business to save our home planet. Today we're in conversation with professional surfer Soly Bailey. Sully was a standout surfer from a young age who managed to navigate the challenge of the spotlight with humility and grace. His indigenous heritage was worn on his shoulder, quite literally, as the first person to place the Aboriginal flag on his competition jersey at the highest levels of competitive surfing. Sully talks us through navigating the highs of a successful competitive surfing career, the lows of serious injury, and the midline through it all. His love of the ocean.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I just had the pleasure of being on a cool little surf adventure with Solomon Bailey. Okay, Sully Bailey. I've known Sully since he was a little cheeky little surf rat around the Northern Rivers region, and he was one of those kids that was very good at a very young age, which can be a blessing and a curse, as we know, as in all kinds of sports. And thankfully it's turned out to be a blessing. He's now 30 years old, has a wonderful partner of 13 years. Wow. Yeah, he's got a really beautiful way in his life. He's an incredibly talented fisherman, like super tuned in with his fishing.

Kindness In The Lineup And Ocean Care

SPEAKER_00 2:21

I have seen Sully around in the lineup and he always has a smile on his face. Like he's always ready to exchange a smile in a way that doesn't always happen with a lot of people in the lineup in general, but sort of pro surfers in particular can have a way of like averting eye contact. And I always appreciate that he has a real inviting sweetness to him. I don't know him well, but I know that. And also I I checked out his Instagram, and at the top of his page, there's this video of the most enormous blue groper that you could ever imagine. This incredible, huge, beautiful, deep blue fish that he has on his lap. And of course, with that kind of photo, it immediately sparks a lot of judgments, but just assumptions about this person and trophy hunting and that sort of thing. But then if you swipe, you see the video of him catching the fish and then jumping into the water with the fish, unhooking it, holding it in this beautiful, beautiful embrace, and then slowly releasing its weight from his arms to make sure it was safe to swim. Like just a beautiful display of care and reverence. And then the fish flicks its big tail and swims off into the deep, and it was just a beautiful honoring, and I feel like a testament, a small testament to the kind of man that he is.

A Dream Run Of Waves Then A Crash

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, it's so wonderful. That's so cool. I I haven't seen that, so it's really neat to hear your story about that, and I can imagine it easily with Sol. His last few years have been somewhat of a pendulum uh experience where he had this year that a lot of us in the surfing world were watching and stoking on because he went from riding, you know, one of the better waves at ship zones that have been ridden ever, to then the next week being at Cloudbreak in Fiji and getting the wave of that bombing's perfect swell, probably the best, biggest tube you could ever imagine any human getting, and then also venturing into hidden corners around the world with his project with O'Neill called Maps to Nowhere, where he got to ride incredible ways with Katie Simmers and lots of other wonderful peak moments in a surfing life. Yeah. And then he lived through a radical spinal injury in his neck and had to undergo surgery for that and went the other way. So the last year was a very tough year for him physically, emotionally, psychologically, you know, really tested after such a high. And then now here we are, we just went on a little adventure, one of the first after his surgeries and come come back from physical challenge like that. And he's thriving and he's surfing the same as I've ever seen him surf, just beautifully and confidently. And it was a real treat to sit down and chat with Sully and just feel that kind of perspective and depth to him now. And I feel like one of the things that when I say an early talent can be a blessing or a curse, the curse part of it is that a a kid loses their love of surfing and the ocean because they get dragged into commodifying their surfing at a young age and making it complex. And there was certainly the potential for that with Saul, and we get into that in the conversation. But for me it is so heartwarming to see him now as a man, as a man who has found his way. And when we were on the trip we kept saying how I'd mentioned this saying that I'd heard actually from Brad Gerlach, it's a popular saying, but he's the first person who told me this saying about the way we do anything is the way we do everything. And I was just saying to Saul how proud and stoked I am that his way is a wonderful, honourable, honest, brave, and kind way. And those are not often words I think of when I'm interacting with people in the professional surfing world.

Losing Love For Surfing During Lockdowns

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Can't you set us up where you guys are, where this conversation is happening? I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

We were in a secret location. But no, we're in the heart of the Pacific on an island together and chasing a wave of serious consequence. That didn't quite work out, but we were still just stoking and spending hours and hours in the water all day. And that was also cool because you know sometimes people don't handle that very well, and that was not the case with us. We were just having a great time and able to yeah, just accept that the ocean is the ocean, and yeah, if we could predict every day, every swell, it wouldn't be the same experience. So that was really wonderful to see that also, that perspective. Because I think maybe when he was younger and when I was younger, we might not have accepted a dud swell like that. Solid. And I know we talk about this in the water, and it's a big question because if you've been living an adventurous life, you probably got quite a few of those, and it can be tricky to whittle it down. But do you have one of those stories that you'd be willing to share with us?

Rebuilding Joy Beyond Competition

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, for sure. My mind started running through some of the things that have, you know, and I think for anyone's life, there's probably a handful of things that have changed the direction of your life or changed the choices or things that you've done after that that moment or or or moment of time, you know. And it was cool to actually have that thought because I was thinking about like reminiscing about things that had done that and and and one that I'd like to share with that's actually quite recent, really, and but it's really it's really enlightened me in my surfing space, and it was back in 2020, in the year of of COVID when everyone was locked down, and I actually had that well, everyone had that time, that year to sort of reflect on everything in in your own space because you were restricted to a certain area in Australia, especially, and no overseas travel and all that, and it slowed me right down. And I actually had just fallen off the world tour the year before, and I was surfing a couple of times at home, and I I was sitting in the surf. If I feel a little ashamed and and embarrassed to talk about this, but I was sitting in the surf and I I was sort of scratching my head going, fuck, I don't really want to be out here. Like I'd lost the love of something in me in the water. Like it it just it and it was really bothering me that year, and I wasn't interested to go to the beach and surf. And you know, when I say that, like I still really enjoy going to the beach and having a swim and surfing, but there was th something about it that in the water, and and I I sat with myself for probably six months, sort of like at times in in the surf, really kind of going, like, what is it? Like, and it was I hated this feeling because for my whole life it's given me everything. Not only is it given me a great opportunity and a job to follow a dream, but it's also given me the the release that a lot of people are familiar with with the ocean and and that and and that was where it was really bothering me, and I was just like like I and I I kind of put it down to like I'd lost my way of the love for the ocean and surfing and and being in the water for the right reasons, and I'd sort of been so dedicated to like this pursuit of trying to succeed in a professional space at a job and please people and and sort of subscribe to a judgment format, and it just burnt me out. It took a while for me to like realize that that's what it was. Maybe if I didn't have that year to like sit me still and my sponsors were still asking a lot of me and and the events were still there to do, and maybe that would have been the end of Soly Bailey, like maybe that that in terms of professional surfing, and it would have probably taken a few years to pick up the pieces, and I would have gone, oh man, I s I love it again, you know. But because I had that year to slow down, it really was a massive ch turning point in my life where I was like, I never want to feel like that again because and I've reflected back to being a kid and how much as a kid you're just you're living in the water day to day, whether you're surfing, you're bodysurfing, you're swimming, playing with mates on the beach, it's just all revolved where we've grown up, uh, around the ocean, fishing and diving and all that stuff. And so that was really big turning point, and and actually from that point, once I realized that I just wanted I needed to walk away and and start doing it for me and no one else, and not no other reason, other than the fact that I wanted to go in the water and do however I see fit, whether it's riding a different surfboard or bodysurfing or diving or fishing or just whatever it is, like it was just how it was it was fun again. It wasn't a job, you know. I love to look at surfing as a job in the sense of like I'd put the effort in and the work work ethics there, but it really should never be a job for anyone. It's something that's super special and it's just a passion that gets fortunately turned into something lucky that sends us around the world doing amazing things.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

I'm interested in how old you were when that year happened, and how long you had been in the competitive surfing world at that stage.

Dipping Back Into Competitive Sparks

SPEAKER_01 11:59

So I would have been what are we 20, 20? It's 26, six years ago, 27 years old. All right. How old are you now? 30. No, you've been 24, bro.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

24, so yes, we can edit that out if you want.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

No, we leave it out. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah, so you're 24, right? 24. That's young though to have that kind of um pivotal moment because you know, like a lot of people, you're like right in the middle of it if you're in a competitive surfing career. Like 24 is you're in the thick of it. You're not at the back end of it of being over it yet. Like a lot of people go into their 30s and then reach that point. So, you know, you're 24, you'd probably been surfing in competitions since what age?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Well, I mean, I surfed my first competition at nine years old, but I would say by the time I was 12, I was surfing monthly on a monthly basis in an event.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Which is a lot for anyone. And I probably put it down to not staying on tour that year and and and like and that is probably because there's there's people that just that is them, they love it, they've they've eaten it up, they eat it up, they absorb that, you know, like judgment and just come back better and stronger, and and I think that's amazing, but it also can just chew you up and spit you out, and we've seen it time and time again, and I think that's where that like where I'm sharing this because no one really seen it, like it wasn't like I dropped off the face of the earth, it was just a fortunate opportunity that I had a year to really reflect reflect without anyone seeing that.

Art And Sport Can Coexist

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, that's interesting, the timing of it. So you get to that stage, and you're essentially it sounds like it's a type of burnout or just sort of losing the the love of that particular way with your surfing.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

So you're you're you're coming into that period and you're like a finely tuned, you know, competitor and thinking about how to, you know, do your best in that system and that structure. You get some space that year to reflect on it all and how it feels. What came next and how were you different after that when you started to, I guess, uh fall back in love with surfing or however you frame it?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I think it was like a really distinct moment of like for me, I was just went from kind of because I guess every surf was structured around like trying to improve some area of my competitive expertise, so to speak. There was very little surfed unless we were going on a s a trip to film for a for a project or a surf trip to Indo where you where the waves are pumping and it's just like it's it's amazing brainless surfing. You're just doing it because it's just it's just there.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Did you say amazing brainless surfing? Yeah. I love that.

Byron Childhood And Ocean Roots

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Like, you know, you're not really like you just you're just sort of doing it. Like it's pumping and you're just going out and doing what we love doing. But in those surfs where you're just doing, you're jumping in the water because you need to, it was always like, I always had this structure of like, and I'm sure there's probably everyone that in that competitive space where you you're constantly critiquing yourself just as if you know, your coach or your dad or your mum or your judges or whatever are critiquing you, and I think that that it's it's really not a healthy space to be in. Maybe I'm my I was the only one to do it. I d I very highly doubt it, but um because you you're really not in tune with the like beauty of the ocean and the waves and and just the feeling of what it does for us.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So, how did you navigate that then? So you've you're moving into a different way with your surfing, like before that you would have had, and I remember this because I've seen you grow up, you know, from a slight distance, but watched you come along as a really talented, early, talented young surfer, and you would have had yeah, your dad and sponsors and people sort of ushering you into that competitive world, which is full of awesome opportunities, and it is incredible for some of us. And I reckon a lot of us, like as teenagers, if you haven't been doing it for a long, long time and you're burnt out, if you're still fresh with it, it's actually really healthy to have some of that structure and like goals to work towards when you're a teenager instead of just partying and probably burning out your circuits from drinking too much and partying too much, because that's a real, that's a true thing in the surfing culture around the world. A lot of us fall down that that path. So you had all of that guidance, but then what about that moment where you're like, oh, I need to sort of reenvision how I'm gonna do this surfing life thing? Who was helping you through that?

Pressure, Mentors, And Avoiding Burnout

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, you know, it's really funny. That was like probably one of the trickier things because it was really internal and I hadn't really shared my feelings a lot with anyone too much. My partner Alex was definitely seeing the front of it, and I think she was the big supporter of it and believing that I Well, her words at one point were this you're too good to just let it go by the wayside, like, and I know you love it so much, you don't you don't hate it, you don't resent it, you just need to find like a passion and and like do it for the right reasons. I guess it like what is the right reason, really, but like do it for what you see it for, not what someone else sees it for. And I think that was probably where it became a lot easier for me. Like it was I was I was just I'm doing it purely for me, no one else. No sponsors, no judges, no parents, no anything. It was just back to the core root of why we all went to the beach for the first time because you begged your parents to because it was fun. It was so much fun. And I you know, like I think once I'd made that decision, my sponsors, O'Neill, they were really supportive of it. They they sort of made it easier. They were like, look, we we'd be stoked for you to go and come on these trips that we're doing and do this and that. And and dad was like, look, I'll support you in anything you're he'd supported me and given me a lot of opportunities throughout my and put a lot of pressure on me as well throughout my childhood. And he was super supportive of like just seeing me grow into the person that I have grown to to in the last you know six or seven years sort of thing. So yeah, you know, I think it's been a huge learning curve. And for me, even looking from the outside outside perspective of my career from that turning point, it's probably been some of the best years of my life as a professional surfer, but also just as the experiences I've had and and waves I've and places I've gotten to go, and really it like just absorbing the beauty of what we are doing and and the places we get to do go to rather than blocking all that out because I'm trying to achieve this specific goal on that day.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

And you miss so much because of that, you know.

Fishing As Escape And Provision

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah, for sure. And so when when we're talking about those adventures really and experiences you've been having the last few years, what I like to see from a distance too is that you still have the opportunity to go in specialty events and like a competition space every now and again, which obviously stokes you out to dip into that.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

But then most of your time is spent quite simply and purely about riding waves and being a waterman. Uh did you foresee that happening? Like when you thought about okay, I'm moving away from the competitive surfer sort of role and and life. Did you think you wouldn't have any more sort of competitive spirit going forward, or were you hoping that there would be those sort of opportunities where you could dip in and dip out a little bit?

Surfing’s Selfishness And Sharing Culture

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I guess I never thought about it like for a few years and I didn't watch any events. I completely detached from it. Like I and I took I turned up like for a few things like the Australian Border Writers Battle for Bowen Border, and and I'd still like the competitive natures definitely was still there in that sense of like I knew how to compete. I didn't hate it, but I was just doing, I just was doing it. But it's funny, in the last sort of year or two, I've only just vocalized what we've just talked about because I'm so okay with what I went through and and I'm happy with where I'm at in my surfing and and my love for the ocean and passion with it all. And I've noticed myself when especially when the waves are good, I'm watching events again, I'm connecting back to that part of me which was definitely there. You don't get to that level without loving it at some point. I just fell out of love with it, you know. Yeah, well said, and getting the opportunity to do little specialty events and have that feeling again and that like, oh, you know, like I just need one more wave, one more opportunity, and or like, and you know, and like and it comes or it doesn't come, and and don't worry, when it doesn't come, the same feeling feels is there, like fuck you bugger, like you know. So yeah, and I just it's it's cool, and it's really cool that those things are are are popping up. And I think like, you know, I remember watching there was a few pipe events and watching Noah, and I think Craig got to surf in it last year, and and uh Harry got that crazy wave. It's cool to see guys that have followed that path of free surfing or just you know, just riding. Waves around the world and chasing opportunities to sort of be put into that space of like because it is such a cool thing, it's just sometimes it's a little bit too much when there's 10-12 events and you're turning up every day for it.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah, yeah. It seems like there's a real there's quite a broad spectrum when it comes to surfing in terms of the art side and the sports side, you know, like there's one end of the spectrum which is just purely the art of it, and people in that space just cannot fit into the sport side of surfing. For sure. But then likewise there's other people who are at the pure sport end, it's not just black and white.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

No, definitely not.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

You can totally have the artfulness and a little bit of sporty spice in there every now and again, which is really fun. And yeah, it's cool that now I think the culture's at a point where we appreciate that. It's not just like you're one or the other. Yeah. You can float around in the middle a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Is that your experience? Yeah, definitely, yeah. And even like I think when you're looking at like stand-up surfing and bodyboarding, it's like very deep appreciation for the like some of the most incredible bodyboarders that we've seen, especially coming out of Australia and some of the stuff they're riding, and and surfers are actually sort of leaning into that, trying to ride those waves and paddle into some of the craziest slabs around. And I think I was it was a bit before my time, but I even when I was a kid, I I r really remember this like kind of like animosity against each like a bodyboarder and a surfer. It was like yeah, it was very rigid. Yeah. Whereas now, like a lot of us all hanging out with them and surfing, and we're all surfing the same waves, and it's you know, like sharing kind of information with each other, and it's cool, and I think it's sort of all blending into like there, you know, a healthy little area.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah, agree. What how would you describe your childhood?

Learning From Pacific Lineups

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Describe my childhood? How would I? I mean I grew up in Byron and you were there in the in the years that I was growing up as a kid, it was a pretty cool, amazing place. It still is a very amazing, beautiful place, but it was like very chilled, laid back, a lot of amazing days in the surf and playful. And I I think if I was to describe it, I remember like specifically like things that come to memory. I remember sleeping at the front of Dad's boat out in in like 60 metres of water, which we call kind of four-mile, being kind of seasick, and he'd be like, Do you want to go in? I'd be like, No, because I just loved being in the ocean. But and we'd be fishing all day, and I'd come in all sunburn, and and they were memories, fond memories that I remember as a child being able to like reflect on those days were really cool, fishing off out of the past, and then also surfing the past day in, day out. And I had a really, really cool, which I'm still all like all my best friends are still my best friends today from well pretty well preschool, which is pretty awesome. You know, it's it's um it's definitely the town's definitely given and given us that opportunity of like really a tight group of friends that have grown up together and been uh been close for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Do you look back and think you wished it was different than it was?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Um nah. I don't really look back and think too much. Like, I mean, obviously there's always little things you'd change and whatnot, and but honestly, like every little bit of it's been so much fun. I could I just want to rewind it and do it all again. Kind of. Maybe maybe less the school.

Chasing Swells Without Chasing Status

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Well I'm sure you went as little as possible with the rest of us. We all did that. Yeah. Um I was just thinking when you were talking about scene uh being out in your dad's boat and to sleep on the bow and stuff. I remember encountering you guys a couple times out to sea, surfing different places, and and just marvelling at how much you two were just out and among it. Like no other sort of father-son or brother combo uh had I seen where you would be way out to sea at fishing or looking for waves and just rarely missing swells and all, you know, very enthusiastically just having adventures. I heard you say just the other day about kids perhaps these days that you that you know came really red hot with their surfing as young kids, got lots of sponsors and lots of structure around them to potentially be like a world champion surfer and and that not panning out too well. That one guy you and Tig were talking about, uh won't mention his name, but that story of you know, like getting a lot of pressure and and losing that spark and that sort of coping mechanism that surfing is for a lot of us when we're when we're kids and it not ending too well. Do you feel like you danced that line a bit too?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Well, I d I mean it yeah, I definitely think I'd I danced it because it was like I was right there at that threshold, not in a sense that I was going to completely fall off the rails and and it was like all over to me, but I'd I nearly lost the thing that's given me the most in my life, it's taught me the most, it's always been there for me. It's never it's never talked back. Maybe it's given me a few vloggings, but it's never but it's never you know it's always it's always turned up for me, you know, and I think that's the saddest thing. They definitely as as as kids you you sort of don't really know what you're you're getting into, hey.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Like Yeah, which makes it so important to have like good uncles, dads, mentors, people or just older mates looking out for sure for us and we're that age.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Definitely. I I think like yeah, having having support around you and like having mentors and having those those like good people to lean on in those times where you know, because like not even in the profession, like not even in the competition surfing space, but like it really can be quite a like a um a letdown, so to speak, like like a breakup almost if if you lose a sponsor and you're kind of like, wow, like that's all of that's what I'm worth, that's all of me, you know. Like you don't have that self-worth, the inner inner belief in yourself that like that's just a small, really small chapter in your life, you know? So I think it's such a volatile time. I mean, we all know it's such a volatile time as as a child, like as a teenager. But uh to add in to it like this like real want and and like belief that you're gonna achieve from so many different areas, it's like you almost need a little rebound board just in case it doesn't all happen.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Was that for you? Was that fishing? Like was a fish because you know your reputation around home is is of being of very tuned-in fishermen and and watermen in the deep water and stuff. Like, was that always there as a bit of a coping mechanism when you got too much to be around you know the human world of cameras and surfing and and all of that?

Goals, Family, And Contentment

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, for sure. Like escaping, like my escape was fishing, there's no doubt about it. And I would always, like, from sort of 16 years old or 17 years old, I would have been 17 because I was just driving. We had a little boat and I was dragging it up to Bruns and crossing the Brunswick Bar. And I remember even a couple of times having to turn around because I was just like, oh, that's too much, you know. Like if it would and and like it was probably a day I should have gone and had a surf out there, really. Yeah, but you know, like sometimes that was just the escape, like it was, and it was the fun part of like trying to navigate your way through a hairy situation without being too risky. And they were like, I definitely think in terms of like an escape, fishing's always been that for me and like a huge passion and and even just providing like I get a real kick out of you know, seeing my friends and family eat beautiful fish that I've brought home and and hunted and gathered. And then I think also like dad has been a big in terms of like trying to achieve goals, like he was always one of the best for me. And we were like brothers, but he was also a realist as in the sense of like he never inflated me like telling me I was gonna be the world champion. And I mean, geez, it's it works for some people. Some people just get told that every day of their life, and then they they are that. I don't think it would have worked for me.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Well, what about that story you were telling me about him sending you to work? Yeah. What was that? What was that one? What was that reality check?

Neck Injury, Surgery, And Gratitude

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah, provided. Yeah, I I he there was a few, there's been a few times where I've gone to work with him, but I remember one specifically actually not going to work with him, and I went to work with a local builder, Tim Dobson, and there was our good mate Jeze and his dad, Jeff Mitchell, and they were bricklayers, and and man, I I just remember like working for them, laying bricks, or or probably only laying a couple, but they were just like they would treat me like I was a trading on the site, and I would have been maybe just got my white card in high school, like around that age. I may not have even had it. Um, and you know, it was a pretty surreal thing, like knowing that like that is a pr it's a full-on job, and it's and you can't go, hey, I'm going for a surf today, you've got to turn up and provide for your family with with money or whatever and and work. It it it's a real reality that uh we're very lucky to be able to do what we do.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

That's really cool. I reckon that he he um saw that. You know, it's like that's water motivated to keep your surfing dreams alive in terms of you know, uh a career attached to surfing where you could pay the bills and feed yourself and house yourself without having to, you know, go do a job that you're not that passionate about. Yeah, for sure. That's really good parenting. Yeah, intense but good. Yeah, intense. Yeah, 100%. I I was wanting to ask you if you feel like surfing's inclusive. Like you just said you loved the thing of fishing where you would bring home some fish and you would feed your friends and family and provide that, and I can't help but think that that feels so good because it's a great thing to do and everything, and because it's yum and it's ethical, and it's like the best way to feed your family locally and all of that, and that stuff's good, but also I reckon there's something more to it where it it would have meant a lot to you because as a surfer and as a professional surfer, it's pretty self-centric, like you're you're just riding a wave on your own, you go do a lot of stuff for your yourself, and then all of a sudden, yeah, something like fishing comes along where you provide for others. Do you have any thoughts around that?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

I mean, I there's no doubt about it. I think self self sel selfing. Selfing selfing is very selfish. Yeah. Selfing. I mean a selfie.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

The self is really good today. Let's go self. The tide's gonna be high. It's perfect for selfing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

When we finish this, we're gonna go selfing.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Near to each other, but totally on our own, selfing. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I think it's just it like surfing's incredibly selfish. You're running away from your loved ones to go and do what you love, and then you're in the surf doing what you love, and you see mates that you love, but then yet you kind of almost are taking waves off them or waiting your turn and sort of you're sharing, but you're also not sharing. You're kind of like hoping you're gonna get the one that you're waiting for that's very special. So it's very interesting, like that whole world. I mean, we're probably not really made like that. To an extent we are, but as well, like I know for me I love to, like I was saying before, like it I get a real kick out of like seeing my friends and family giving them the fish and being like, ha, like enjoy this, like you know, this is how I cooked it, and blah blah blah. It's really good. It's my favorite one, you know. Not very often you're gonna go and do that in and be like, here, like this is my favorite wave. Like, yeah, because you'd like for me, I'd be like, fuck, is he gonna ride it right? Is she gonna ride it right? Like, you know, you're gonna be deep enough in the tube. Like, it's it's a funny thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Um it's personal, hey.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

It is very personal. Um, so yeah, I think I think I haven't really thought about it in that way, but it definitely I think that's probably where I get it that it's like why where I get such a kick out of it, you know?

Slowing Down And Body Care At 30

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Yeah, for sure. And that leads me to like the thought thinking about you know, just the cultures around the world that we have been so fortunate enough to meet and surf with and play with, and a lot of that is in the Pacific. We're in the Pacific right now, and you know, a lot of Polynesian culture, a lot of Aboriginal culture in Australia too, like really First Nations cultures around the world emphasize community and right relationship, you know, and like it you kind of like if you're a loner, it's maybe because you've been a naughty boy and you're like ostracized and that's your punishment for being selfish and stuff. But I I just think like when we yeah, if we were to like look at surfing in its in the most positive way, the best that it could be, it is a commute a communal thing. And like when we get it really right, it is when it's shared, you know, like maybe not with a hundred people in a lineup because it's pretty dysfunctional. But there is a l an element of sharing in it that I think is really great, and I think you know you go to places like Tahiti and other areas in the Pacific where I I feel like they do it so well where when you enter a lineup you go and shake hands with every person and make eye contact, acknowledge that they're there, you're there, and then you go to the back of the line essentially. If there is a line in a lineup, you go to the back and you take your spot and you just humbly sit there. And I just think how great that is and how different that is to Australia, America, Europe, places where it's that's not really practiced that way. Do you feel like that you have a like an interest or an eye for any of that when you're traveling where you're you're I don't know, wanting to pick things up from people and places because it sounds like you you haven't you have like a curious mind and you want to be able to like experience a place properly because you did do many years of contests where you don't get to do that, you know, and it and it obviously didn't feel quite right for you to be moving so quickly doing contests and not able to hang with people. Have you got any like highlights over the years with because of your travels you've yeah, picked up life lessons or had experiences that have really been enriching?

Listening To Gut vs History

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah, for sure. I guess one that like really comes to my mind, and I don't know if like it would really like a life lesson, but like just even just what you were saying where when you're in an environment like that where it's very like you saw that you're saying good day to everyone, you're shaking their hand, you you're really everyone's the same, like on the same level. I was in Fiji. Shay let us stay in his house and and had his friend come and and hang out with us, this older guy that was just really and he was really down to earth and like this kind of like Rastafaro kind of guy, like I can't actually remember his name. He was 60 years old, really, really lovely, like really, really incredible person to experience and be around. And he was just so kind and giving and and he was just hanging at the house when we'd go out and surf, he'd stay there, and he had his two sons. He actually has a lot of sons and daughters and that, but he his two sons were coming out and surfing with us, but it had this like different feel to it where like we were just sharing their beautiful place versus like this dog eat dog kind of like fighting for the best, and it just changed the whole perspective on. And I think I guess that is their life experience, like that in the sense of like that sort of mentality where they really could have just turned a blind eye, taken what they want, and and sort of just not acknowledged us. But cause they gave us that feeling, it sort of makes you want to try and like give it elsewhere.

Keeping Surfing In Your Heart

SPEAKER_00 38:35

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Family, Sponsors, And Support

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of opportunities when you start to travel in the small groups with just a couple friends and maybe moving a little slower, and you know, that whole thing of traveling the world as part of a circuit or a tour of sorts with competitions. I remember being a kid and quite early on realizing that I'd looked at my passport at the end of a year and had so many stamps in it, but had so few actual memorable experiences of those countries. Like I went to Africa and went to South America and Asia, all these different places, but I actually didn't feel like I'd lived that much because I was wanting to win contests when I went to those places, and I remember that being a big feeling for me in terms of walking away from that world and walking more towards adventures where you get embedded in a place a little bit more and yeah, just get time with people. And you just mentioned Fiji. So when you made that choice to continue surfing and having it as like a career after the COVID quiet year or so, you then went on like a absolute swell, like rhythm that a lot of people in surfing were stoked to see because it was like this I don't know, dream run that a lot of us wish for in our lives or hope you could one day feel where you got unbelievable waves in all these parts of the world, and essentially, like in my opinion, you got to ride just dream waves that everyone could wish, like wish that they have experienced that huge one at Cloudbreak, that big beast at Shipstern, all the secret places you've gone with the maps to nowhere projects. When you've had those experiences, do they feel like an achievement and you're like, cool, I've done that, and you kind of want to move on to something else? Or does it kind of feel like a taste where okay, I got that four-minute long tube at Cloud Break, I want to get an even bigger one next time? Do you or like you found yourself in these incredible long roping, empty right point breaks? Do you leave those trips and find yourself right now feeling like you want more and more and more? Is it like something that you you just can't quench? Or yeah, do you feel like it's an achievement?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

I I haven't r exactly got that desi like don't get me wrong, I would love to go and live that year again or do it again. But it's like I don't have this like need and desire to like better it or be there and do it all. And I think this is where the the penny dropped for me in that world. Where like I was just okay. I was just living and just so stoked to be in love with what I was doing, the surroundings I was around, the people I was choosing to be around, and and just living day to day, like just saying yes to 90% of things because hey, one day I'll wake up and I'll it'll be a different chapter of my life, and maybe I'll won't be doing all that again, and I'll be doing something awesome, like raising kids and cruising at home, and you know, just going for a quiet fish and surfing when the swell's good and maybe doing a trip or two, whatever. But it's like and it and it just seemed to trickle effect in that year, and I felt like that was the real like year where I was like, oh wow, like this is how it feels just to sort of do what I love doing and just be cool with however it goes, and if it happens, it happens, or it does and it doesn't. But hey, look, like I just met the coolest old BG and 60-year-old dude that gave me some of the most incredible insights into life and selflessly just cooked and cruised and gave us and his undivided time, and and Shay let us stay there with his kids, and we're all just kind of hanging and playing and talking crap and yeah, you know, and and then like that Fiji wave happened in a lineup of some of the most incredible big wave surfers of all time at uh at in this time point in time and I wasn't particularly in the position of like priority, it just that moment came to me, like whether or not it was just a for like a lucky thing, or if maybe I was just in this state of like happiness where it just universe just gives that to you, you know. Like it's a funny thing to think of, like sometimes when you're so hungry to win something or achieve something or be the number one, you sort of lose that path. And I think that's where I was sort of reflecting on the whole competitive thing. I think that's where I kind of got lost. Yeah, I was just so fucking dedicated and hungry to be on that tour and stay on that tour and then win, win, win, win. That hey, what about like all the beautiful people in those beautiful countries that you could be hanging out with and meeting and experiencing and and maybe that's the trick to it all, you know?

Closing Reflections And Credits

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Totally. It's kind of easy to relate to if you're a surfer to understand the significance of waves like that, but maybe hard if there's people listening to this who don't surf, it might seem like, what are you talking about? Like it's just one wave, and it's like, yeah, that was one wave, like that huge, incredibly beautiful and like masterfully surf wave at Cloudbreak was what 40 seconds of clock time? If that, I don't even know. Something like I say it's probably less, really. So it's 30 seconds of clock time, but you will never ever forget that, and those sort of waves, the rest of us don't forget it either. Like, we'll all be like, Oh, you remember that one that Solomon got that year, oh my god, and you and you remember it, but it's it's easy to start feeling like you're on the right path in your life when waves like that happen. And to you know what I mean? Like you get a wave like that, and and it is significant, like you just don't forget it. It can change you in a way where maybe it is a wave of significance where after that you don't chase it anymore. It's like, wow, I've felt what it feels like to ride a wave that powerful, and then you're kind of done. I think of Shane Dorian in this instance as an example, like Shane, one of the most amazing technical surfers in the world, and then also one of the like gutsiest big wave surfers in the world, and he got those unbelievable paddling waves at Piahe at Jaws in those early years when everyone stopped towing. And I remember hearing him say, Yeah, he's he did it. He's like, Okay, now it's time for other people, the next generation, to have their crack at that and to experience that. But I just thought it was really admirable how he was like, Yep, like how am I gonna and really how are you gonna do better than that out there, the way he surfed those in particular, those unbelievable beasts of waves. You sound a little similar right now, where you're like, wow, okay, I've had those waves, and if life delivers them again, I'm sure you'll put your head down in your paddle and kick and scratch into those waves and surf plenty more. But it's cool to hear you say, like that yeah, the satisfaction of them is in you, and it didn't like make you just want to crave more and more and more. It's like, oh, that was nice, but I want more and more and more straight away.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Um, which I think is a really interesting insight and a g and just a good lesson. And I love when we get to have these sort of conversations with people, and we can, you know, push stop at the end of this, and someone has something that they could apply to their life, it's sort of like useful information. Yeah, yeah. Because it is tempting to just be like craving, stuck in that craving mode with surfing, or you just crave the next swell, the next moment, the next moment. What on that level, with that in mind, do you look at this next period in your life, you're 30, and do you even though you sound like your cup is full and you're really content with what you're doing, do you set goals? Have you got anything that you look forward to and just I don't know, are working towards or dreaming up?

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, I mean I don't specifically set them in that way of like I've you know, I've heard of these like you know, they where you you know you write them down and they they sort of come true or whatever, but in my head I have definitely goals that I'm looking forward to in in the next so sort of time, not particularly one year or two, but I'm really looking forward to hopefully starting a family. I'm getting married at the end of the year. They're really big goals of mine. My partner and I are looking forward to moving closer to home to our family, and they're probably some of the biggest goals that I have that would be really awesome to to hopefully achieve with her and in the near future. And you know, I think as well in the surfing space, like I'll just whatever just enjoy the time I've got while I'm doing it, and and you know, if the the opportunity arises the and the waves are there, I'll just try and achieve that amazing ride and whatever it is, like I'll I'll go if it's there, if it's not, it's not. You know?

SPEAKER_02 50:27

I'm sure you will go. So I love hearing that you're just rolling, essentially, rolling through from one thing to the next. Though at the same time, in the last year or so, you've navigated like some pretty serious stuff by having to have a surgery on your neck, on your spine, and spinal-related surgery is a heavy deal. Now that you're on the backside of that, how are you different now to who you were before you had to live through yeah, spinal injury and like head injury? Because it sounded like it was kind of like a bit of a concussion style head injury as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Yeah, you know, I think, and this was one of the things where I nearly was at the beginning when we talked about what like things that have altered my life. This was definitely one of those moments as well. Like, in a way, of there was a point there where I was sitting in front of neurosurgeons and and doctors and a team sitting there in front of me, kind of going, Well, this is a pretty serious circle, like circumstances that have happened, blah blah blah, you know, like and I'm like, so okay, when can I get to surf again? And they're looking at me like surf, you're lucky to be walking. Wow. Kind of like, uh, so okay, yeah, I can walk. And I I actually was probably at that point in time, I was probably pretty naive and also the right word, like immature, selfish, not selfish, but like in the sense of like I was just like, I'm walking, I'm fine. Like, what do you mean I can't surf? Really? Like, I was kind of just like sort of almost brushing it off, like you're you're wrong, like it's not I was in denial. That's that's the word, and uh and then like over the course of a few days, Alex, my partner, had explained it to me a bit in a simpler simp some simpler terms and whatnot, and I was just like, wow, and yeah, so that was a really, really big turning point in my life of like fuck, like I was I was right there in that cusp of like potentially being quadriplegic. That's that's sort of where that's the level that I injured. If I had have done that worse than I had, which is was possible, I don't know how close the possibility is there on that scale of things, but that would have been the level of quadriplegic. And I I sort of think about that quite often. I'm like, man, like what what would your life look like? What would anyone's life look like and have to fight back from that moment? But all the you know, like things that I we all love to do, take it would be a just a a really, really gnarly thing to deal with, and I feel for all the people that have been through that and fighting back from there, and I'm so glad that there was a way back. And possibly, you know, with time I could have corrected it without surgery, but who knows if that's possible, you know. Like the the the time that uh they were talking about, like, you know, was a slim reality of doing it. So I chose to do go with the surgery, and the team that helped me out were incredible.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Like how far after that are we now? So how long ago are we talking when you had the surgery?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Um it'd be a what uh we're we're close to twelve months. Yeah. So if early this early February will be yeah, 12 months.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

That's a pretty big like swing of the pendulum because just before that was that beautiful run of amazing surf, you know, some of the best, or if not the best ways of your life in succession, you know, great trip after great trip, and that super blessed moment in Fiji and down in Tazi, you know, and and also because you know, we've got to admit, like when that sort of stuff's happening and people are coming up to you with all this positive energy, it's like you're right you're still riding on a high, on a good wave. Like you must have been feeling like that at that stage.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

It's funny. I you were just when we were just talking about like do you want to chase like what's your attitude to like the next wave, and you're hungry to go and get it again, bigger, better, faster, stronger. And I think I was on that trajectory.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Riding off the back of those waves, I was like such in a flow state of like, oh my god, it's like riding a massive wave, like you're like, holy shit, I'm flying, like I'm killing this right now, like I'm doing the best thing ever. And then it was like, oh no, I'm not. I crashed really bad. And that was that moment of like, hey, it's cool to ride those waves and that feeling, and probably that's why things kept happening because you just get into that purple patch of like beauty where you're just in a flow state and things just keep coming your way. And and it's hard to sort of like put it into reality of like, oh, at some point it's gonna stop, or like you need to slow down. But I think that was probably a sign of like, hey, you need to slow down, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Like the injury, yeah. That's yeah, like because that shit comes at a price. Yeah. Like that's serious water to be getting ragdolled in. For sure, you know, and you swing the bat enough times you're gonna hit the ball, like sh at shipzerns, at cloud break, at pipe, you know, all these places, and there's so many people, the list is long of people who've got radical injuries from living in that place for many years.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

And that was your experience. So so yeah, that's really interesting that you you were getting to that point, maybe of yeah, bigger, longer, faster with it, but that feels different now. You don't have that same feeling as strong or I think I think everything teaches you something.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Like every experience in life will like teach you something, and I think that was one that I took away from it. Like, and I'm I'm sure I've been taught that before in a smaller form, and I've just forgotten it and learned it.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Oh, yeah, it takes us a few times, so I can relate to that. You got the same lesson many times. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

My parents and everyone will vouch for that. They they've told me a few times before, I I guarantee that one. Yeah, but you know, I think you just sort of there was like no doubt I was on like this crazy run of in my head, and it had to come to a stop and at some point, and that was just one of those moments where, like you said, you swing it enough times, you're gonna hit the ball eventually. Yeah, I was I'm fortunate it wasn't worse, and I wish it didn't happen, but it I'm grateful to be here and yeah and talking about it. Yeah, you know 100% and still being able to go and surf and love it all.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Exactly. Yeah, and to me, like from the outside, you're just your surfing looks the same as it's looked for the last few years where you're you're a fully grown man and you're surfing powerfully and confident and everything. And you know, I think you can see a lot in the way people conduct themselves in the water and how they ride a wave, and you can tell if someone's still struggling physically or psychologically, and you just look to be just I don't know, the same frother as as always, which is amazing to come back to that after 11 months from you know a radically close call with your spine. What do you do now? So to like keep your shit together and to stay healthy and to keep you know your neck malleable so you can look left and right and and you know, like actually function and surf to your best and everything. What does that look like after you've just gone through what you've gone through?

SPEAKER_01 57:59

I think it's probably a combination of what I've just gone through and also getting to my 30s. I've noticed my body needing a little more attention than my early 20s, you know. You definitely wake up a little sore and a bit slower than than you do in your 20s or even your teens. But yeah, there's there's a lot of just a lot of movement, body movement, and and and nourishing my body with water and like some subtle stretches and just not rushing as much into just like, oh go, go, go, it's no water, cup of coffee, let's do it. Yeah, you know, like and there's still days that probably that flies out the window if you're seeing spitting barrels.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Like today when it was low tide and you had to walk, crawl, walk, stumble, whatever you call it, a million miles to get across across a uh urchin-infested reef. Yeah. The potential of a couple way. Exactly. It's funny you say it like, yeah, how you've got to learn the same lesson a few times sometimes, like, yeah, that kind of moment where your enthusiasm gets the better of you, you know, with surfing.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

For sure. Do you still feel like you can I was actually walking across a reef and you didn't surf, you cruised and just and you knew, and and I knew, but I didn't listen to it. I couldn't help myself. I had to go and I did get one barrel, but was it worth the hour an hour-long walk along extremely sharp reef? Yeah. Yeah. Half an hour each way. It was probably not, but uh, you know, the young bull will will run down the hill. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

But that's that also is the the charm of of being lit up and and passionate about the thing you're into, you know, and how amazing surfing is like that. The the unpredictable nature of it is that who knows that it could have just clicked and you were just feeling in your gut like enthusiasm. For sure. So you went and you did that. And and it sometimes it does.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Sometimes exactly it clicks, and you're like, oh my, like you just have this little moment of beauty and in anything in life. I I've noticed that in fishing sometimes, like I just get a gut feeling, I'm gonna go down here and do this, and all of a sudden I've got this little patch of awesomeness, and I'm like, wow, you know, and and yeah, and anything really it just happens. Yeah, it's important to listen to your gut, but sometimes sometimes maybe you should listen to your to your past history.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah, I like it. That's I can I really related to that this morning. I was like, yep, I have that same urge and I I'm like intolerable when it comes to the potential of good surf, the lead up to it. Like my partner Lauren will um attest. It's just like I get the blinkers on and you just gotta answer the phone call when she calls, as Alpi Falzon says. And yeah, it's just cool to see you like that, brother, because you know, yes, your body can pay the price for having that level of enthusiasm. Yes, you can have like, you know, the the need to learn a lesson many times before you get it. But at the same time, you lit up, you know, like at least you have something that's really lighting you up. You know, and I just can't help but think back and go, alright, in that COVID year, what if you didn't decide to lean into this kind of life you're living? What if you kept pushing and pushed and pushed? You know, would you be out here in the beautiful blue Pacific, stoking, healthy, capable of living through radical injury and challenge and still being happy and healthy? You just you never know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

You do, you never know, hey. Yeah, and that's the thing, you get those experiences and they alter your life, and maybe you took that path and it it's still all good, or maybe it wasn't, you know. Like it's just one of those things where you open one door and what was that saying, one door closes and five new ones open. I w I love that one. I I I really believe that that seems to eventuate quite often.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:03

Do you ever look back and wish you didn't do the years on the circuit and competition?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

No, I had I had an absolute blast. I actually look back and wish that I would have lived a little more and not just been in the hotel room. Like, and then don't within saying that, I lived. I had a great time. Some of my best times were some of the the younger years when it was a little more like adventurous and it was a little bit less about like trying to get on the world tour or trying to stay on the world tour on the years on the tour, and this very like focused, structured, and it was more just like playful fun, surf here, there, you know, parties, whatever. Like within saying that, like I don't have huge regrets. I just reckon that like some of the funnest years were the ones that I didn't even really care, I was just doing it and loving it and having fun. And then I think that sometimes the hardest thing is for all surfers when I think about it, and I think about why you turn into like this like you structured goal achieving want to be there. And sometimes it comes down to like, oh, like if I don't, you know, you're the people that are paying the bills and uh abling enable or like making letting this happen may not be there tomorrow if you don't achieve it. So you sort of start to fall into this space of like, I'm getting older, I've got to do it, I've got to get there, and it's like you're forgetting why you were doing that. And it's it's it's it's inevitable, like it's life. You get older, you you know, the next block comes along, and yeah, just enjoy it and have fun doing it, and it all well it all works out.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Yeah, I reckon it is a tricky space with something like surfing where there's the the art and the sport thing, and and I don't like how the term's been sort of co-opted, like the lifestyle, but that kind of idea, like your life as a water person, you know, juggling it with commodifying it and making it a competition is for sure, it's just a tricky dance, and and that's why like earlier I said about usefulness of conversations like this is you know, it's my hope that if a parent of a young kid who's got showing an interest in surfing competitions l hears this, uh it would be great for them to hear, oh look out for that in my young daughter or my young son, if they are perhaps taking it really seriously and finding it a bit of a struggle, maybe we ease off it a little bit or just you know walk through it really aware, you know, so that that burnout doesn't happen at a really, really crucial time in your life, like in your teenage years, where you're just clueless for sure and you need the guidance. Is there anyone that you would like to like thank or acknowledge for being that kind of role and looking back now that you're 30 and your life's humming along and you know you're capable of dealing with challenges like that serious injury and and yeah, you just got it sounds and feels like you got a really clear head and and your health, who's in your mind when you think about people that have helped you get to this moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

Oh, get a little bit choked up saying this. My my stepmum she's had she's my d uh sorry. It's all good. So my step-mum from a really young age, my dad met this beautiful woman, Nia, that basically was a big part of my life and my dad's life. And the reason I choke up a little bit is because I've never really brought it up because I love my mum a lot, and I don't want to this beautiful woman gives birth to you, but she wasn't always there, and she's wants to be there, but she wasn't always there. Yeah, so Nene was probably the b biggest person that always was my rock and an anchor. She gave Just she was always there for me, you know. Dad dad was always there and always there as a fun mate to go surfing with and dragging me around to this wave and that wave and fishing and but he was a mate. He was a he was the fun sort of like and and the and the driving force behind my professional career. But between Nene and my partner Alex, they're the people that probably got me through the time where I needed someone most. And actually, you know what? I really do I and I feel like this is a funny one. Like I I obviously we all thank our sponsors and stuff like this, but in a different way, I'm not thanking them like, oh, thanks for looking after me all these years. They really were pretty supportive of me, like Kieran at O'Neill, my the big boss from the US, was like, look, like we really think you would fit that free surfing mold, like go and do it. Like we've got things, we don't need you on tour, we don't want you on tour. Like he was very they were very supportive of us. You know, and if they had been pushing me in that competitive space, the competitor in me still was there. It was just exhausted of of being judged to a to a really high level. And who knows, I probably would have just went and kept grinding and maybe probably not got there, and they would have said, Oh, you know, sorry, like great career, you're a great surfer, but it's all over. And and then that's when I believe that probably the wheels would fall off in a different way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

For sure. That's great to have that kind of support from that world and that, you know, that industry, which doesn't always have the best rap for that kind of behaviour, but it does exist and there are really great people for sure. The the industry aspect of surfing. Is Nene um still with us?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Yeah, she is. Yeah. She's um she's we were just spending some time together in Sydney, and she's just still as much a part of my life. My dad and her aren't together anymore, but she's she's still as much as a part of my life as ever, and still helps me through all my annoying background work that can revolve around the surfing, booking uh annoying tickets and this and that, and yeah, and leaning on her at times for for things. But yeah, you know, she's been a really, really big support in all areas as a mother.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:23

Do you get teary because of just how amazing she's been for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:29

I got teary because I've never openly said that for the fact that like I love and respect my mum, my biological mum, and she's a beautiful woman, but she's had her struggles over the years.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

Yeah, you don't want to offend or disrespect.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

But I also believe that like everyone chooses their path, and and I'm very grateful to the people, including my biological mum, Julie, that like she's she has been there in ways at times, but she's also needed to be looking after herself at times as well, with with you know, like alcohol and things like that. And so, you know, it's just one of those things where it it's an emotional sort of trauma that I very, very rarely have ever, ever, ever opened up about.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

It's good to share those things and get them out, you know. There's only so much you can contain, you know, whereas your life goes along and things start layering up and you get more and more experiences and you've got to keep the output going somehow, however you do that, whether it be physically through things like surfing, which is like dance, you're moving it through your body, or art or writing or music, however you do it, talking. Um it's good, man. It's good to hear acknowledge your family. And again, that you know, a lot of us come from like family structures that are strained and full of you know stress and trouble. And that also makes me think of the importance of surfing, even though it's just we're just standing on a wave or sliding along on a wave. It's a small thing, but it can keep you afloat in those times in your life where you're really sinking, you know, and you might have a really fractured familial experience. I know for me as a teenager that was my experience. If I didn't have surfing, I I would have really struggled. And then that's also why I walked away from the contest because I started to really struggle by having too many complexities on top of surfing, and I was I realised if I lost surfing, I'd probably lose myself in some way. Yeah. And I guess that's a bit of a thread running through this, like being able to make that choice to be healthy and be clear with the with that relationship. For sure. With your surfing, with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

Yeah. I definitely think that at that point where I, you know, shared about the turning point was was very similar to what you've just said. Like, and I was that was probably what was I was struggling with most. That like this beautiful thing that we do has helped me for so many years to vent my you know inner frustrations. And then I'd lost that passion to do it, so then I'd lost that vent. And I didn't think about it in the sense that I was gonna probably like potentially lose myself off the back of that. But like, you know, it's a very good chance of that happening, and I think everyone needs to like if you know 99% of us have started surfing or started just going in the ocean because it's that's your beauty, that's the thing you love most, and be very careful of it not being damaged because of the commodicised commoditiz, yeah, 100% yeah, commodified commodified, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Yeah, Duke Hanamoki said that in early days is him saying, keep it in your heart, the surfing experience, just keep it in your heart. It's simple, but it's probably hard to do at times for us. But and that can just be for the everyday surfer too, because like what about the everyday surfer when you just do it in an autopilot sort of way? We know lots of mates we you know, or people in our surf communities that are like that, you just go back to the same spot every day. It's like a routine thing. Yeah, they don't really seem to be that lit up and vibrant, and that's kind of like it's gone to their head, they're thinking about it, it's just an auto sort of thing, it's not in their heart anymore. Yeah, I just think way after Jig said that in early days, this it's to be um, yeah, it's to be thought of and to find your own way to do that, which is cool, man. I'm stoked. It makes me also remember the Kimmy Werner. The first time we sat down to record one of these water people conversations was with Kimmy Sumi, Kimmy Werner, and she spoke of the same thing as a diver though, of how she was having a hard time on her life and then lost the ability to go down the deep and dive for sure and then just started spiralling because of that, you know, and then brought herself back. So it's great, man. It's really cool. I feel like we've all probably got similar experiences where it's been tested. Yeah, you realise oh, actually, no, this is a really important part of my life. I don't want to lose it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Yeah. Anything else you want to talk about? I mean, thanks for chatting and I really enjoyed it. It's been an amazing trip, insightful trip, and corny and cheesy in a way, but you've been a very, very big inspiration in my life. Oh, thanks. But yeah, cheers. As much as it isn't corny and cheesy, it's beautiful, and I think that it should be acknowledged in the sense of the people that you look up to and and have been very impressionable in a good way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

Yeah, right on. I was and I've said on this trip just how good it feels to see you just doing your thing and like healthy and strong and in a way not compromising, you know, you've just made your choices and you've stuck by them and and your life's just flying because of it, and it it stokes me out because I do f I do find it like sad when I see people younger than me who have got so much potential in their life and uh not to just be like you know, successful sports people in surfing or surfers, water people and everything, but just just healthy and happy. Yeah, you know, and when it gets lost because of all of those things we've been talking about, I find that sad. So and but equally I find it really a stoker when you see people thriving. And uh yeah, man, so it's great to share this and it's it's just cool, especially because you've been tested, you know, like you've you've had those life experiences that could have made or or broken you and they've made you, you know. For sure, yeah. The tour and doing all that stuff, giving it all and then coming out of it, poof, that's a hard transition for a lot of people. That's not an easy one for any professional athlete to come out of the thing they've done their whole life, like in that way, and then also serious injury. It's just great, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Thank you. It's been a wild and amazing journey and how amazing it is for us to have the ocean enough, you know, here for us, and it's important to cherish and look after it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Time is precious. Thanks for spending some of yours listening with us today. Our editor this season is the multi-talented Ben Jake Alexander. The soundtrack was composed by Shannon Soul Carroll, with additional tunes by Dave and Ben. We'll be continuing today's conversation on Instagram, where we're at Water People Podcast. And you can subscribe to our very infrequent newsletter to get book recommendations, questions for pondering, behind-the-scenes glimpses into recording the podcast, and more via our website, waterpeoplepodcast.com.