Hearing Matters Podcast

Audiologists who shaped our profession share their 50-year journey

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Dr. Douglas Beck hosts a special episode featuring audiology pioneers Dr. David Majit and Dr. Gary Dorf, whose combined experience spans nearly a century in hearing healthcare. Unlike typical clinical discussions, this conversation reveals the personal journeys of two professionals who helped transform audiology during its formative years.

Their stories weave through pivotal industry moments – from building successful California practices to lecturing in Japan where they introduced binaural fitting techniques to practitioners accustomed to monaural solutions. The conversation takes entertaining detours, including Dr. Dorff's memorable dinner seated next to Mick Jagger and their experience with "The Bubble," a non-electronic device that briefly revolutionized mild hearing loss treatment.

What emerges beyond the professional milestones is their genuine passion for audiology. As Dr. Dorff reflects after nearly 50 years: "I never felt it was work. I enjoyed every bit of audiology I touched." Both emphasize how the profession continues offering rich opportunities for those seeking to combine technological innovation with meaningful human connection. Their journey illuminates how far audiology has come and why it remains an exceptionally rewarding career for those committed to improving lives through better hearing.

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Blaise M. Delfino, M.S. - HIS:

Thank you to our partners. Cycle, built for the entire hearing care practice. Redux, the best dryer, hands down Caption call by Sorenson. Life is calling CareCredit, here today to help more people hear tomorrow. Faderplugs the world's first custom adjustable earplug. Welcome back to another episode of the Hearing Matters Podcast. I'm founder and host Blaise Delfino and, as a friendly reminder, this podcast is separate from my work at Starkey.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Good afternoon. This is Dr Douglas Beck with the Hearing Matters Podcast, and this is a very unusual Hearing Matters Podcast. As you know, we almost always do clinical and academic stuff. We don't talk about very many other things. And this time is really special for me because I've known these two guys for about 40, 45 years. Dr David Magie, dr Gary Dorff, and we work together here and there and they are dear friends of mine. Gary's actually retired, which means he's working part-time. David is still working full-time and for those of us who know David, that means part-time anyway. So you guys, welcome to the Hearing Matters podcast.

Dr. David Majit:

I'm so glad you're here. We're very honored to be here, Dr Beck. Thank you for having us.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Thank you, doug, always good seeing you Well, thank you and seriously it's an honor to work with you guys because you've been through everything in the last 45 years in our industry and in our profession and it's been quite a ride and I'm so glad that most of it I was on that journey with you guys along the way, here and there. So let's start with Dr, my master's degree, and this was the 76th.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

And in 76, ASHA frowned upon and called it unethical for audiologists to dispense hearing aids.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Indeed they did. Yeah, that went on until about 79, yeah.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

That's right. And I kind of thumbed my nose at ASHA and I did work for a private practice dispenser in Queens, new York, and because of that I had some hearing aid experience. And after I graduated, in the ASHA journals there was this opportunity in Saskatoon, saskatchewan Say that five times fast Saskatoon, saskatchewan. So truthfully, I had no knowledge where the heck this place was and I called up and interviewed on the telephone and they were desperately looking for an audiologist to dispense hearing aids and I was very probably one of the very few that was had that type of experience.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

To add a little bit of color there. You know this was such a big deal in 77, 78, 79, because ASHA had said it was a conflict of interest or unethical or whatever the terms were, based on a ruling where they came down to engineering professions had very, very little to do with us, but they thought it was probably a conflict of interest for you to diagnose and treat the same patient. And of course I guess they never heard of neurosurgery at that time or otolaryngology or OBGYN or anything. But yeah, that was their thought is that it was a conflict, because now you diagnosed, you know what the problem is and you sell the solution.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

So that opportunity number one got me out of New York because I was really interested in traveling a bit and it was in Saskatchewan and, not knowing where it was during the interview I asked the gentleman so how do I get to Saskatchewan? This is absolutely the truth. He said, well, if you do take the job and you plan on driving out here, just go to North Dakota and make a right. And he said just keep driving. And the second decent-sized city you run into was saskatoon. So, anyway, that's where I I kind of uh, we really really began dispensing in earnest. Uh, I worked a lot of time for the school for the deaf. It was a fabulous job traveling to all the northwest territories, indigenous people, and it was.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

It was a wonderful start to my career, I think it's extraordinary too because, as you say, back then you know we had audiologists with masters and PhDs but we really did not have a lot of hearing aid knowledge and nobody did, frankly. And so it was about that time 1988, 182, is when all the books really started to come out and all of them almost exclusively, you know, were written by audiologists on hearing aid dispensing. And how do you know how much gain to apply, how much output, you know, and all of the technical stuff that goes into programming and fitting hearing aids. That was all coming out of the audiology literature in the 80s and 90s. And but I agree that back then if you were trying to start a clinic that had hearing aid dispensing, you know there weren't really that many experts in hearing aid dispensing in audiology because we were prohibited from doing it.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

But it changed rather rapidly and complete 180 after that. And you know, even back in those days I remember in 84, 85, 86, you know people say, oh, you know, you're an audiologist, what do you know about hearing aids? And you know it was really a divisive issue and it was unfortunate because we often found ourselves working in two different lands, right, the land of audiology and the land of hearing aids and audiologists. Of course, by that time, 82, 81, 80, they were taking all the courses on hearing aids and teaching all those courses. So it had changed quite dramatically during those years and my hat's off to you, because it's quite a burden when your professional home, which was ASHA back in the time because AAA didn't exist is telling you that what you're doing is unethical or immoral or wrong. Pretty soon thereafter they changed their mind.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Everybody, and my professors included, when they found out, because I wasn't shy about telling them that I was doing some part-time dispensing they kind of frowned upon it. So anyway, the job in Canada was just wonderful. They did hire about three or four more American audiologists to bring up, because in Canada at that time they really didn't have a program, so they were importing audiologists and it was just a great three years of my life, you know, being a fish out of water and just in the land.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Absolutely, and your friend's direction on how to get to Saskatchewan reminded me that in 1964, february 9th, 8 o'clock pm, channel 2 in New York, wcbs, after the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan at that moment. The next day there were some interviews and they said oh well, mr McCartney, how did you find the Medica? And he said, oh, we made a left at Ireland. Okay, so I think you're finished, doug.

Dr. David Majit:

I would just like to comment that I don't think it's fair to Dr Dorff that he was labeled unethical and immoral for dispensing. I think there are so many other good reasons why that label is stuck with him, but I don't think it has anything to do with dispensing.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

So I'm in your corner. I appreciate that clarification. David, if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about your education. You started as well in New York, right?

Dr. David Majit:

Yes, actually, I did my graduate work at the University of Connecticut and growing up in New York, where I'm from, I always had this thing about California and now one day I would love to live there and I was married but no children. So I decided, hey, that was a good opportunity, and so we drove out to California. I got a position as a clinical audiologist at the University of California, san Francisco, which I worked at for just about three years and they were pretty progressive in that we started a dispensing program there in 76. And I started that and ran that and it was a great experience.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Did you run into any? Of those issues that Gary was mentioning where you were prohibited from dispensing in 76?

Dr. David Majit:

Oh, we were not. And actually what was interesting was the director of the program. His name was Robert Flower, PhD, and he was the president of ASHA, and he had no problems with us starting a dispensing program because he felt it was in the best interest of the patient rather than us to continue to refer out. So I give him a lot of credit and the foresight that he showed in allowing us to start that Just incredible.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Now was Robert Cerrito there when you were there.

Dr. David Majit:

Robert was not. Robert was the head of the speech and hearing clinic in San Francisco. As I say, Robert Flower was the director and again, it was a wonderful experience. Learned a lot there about clinical audiology as well as distensing.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Sure. And where'd you go after that, Dave, after UCSF?

Dr. David Majit:

After that I found that I was really more interested in the business part of audiology and I was approached by a couple of people who were starting a new business Right and Knox Brooks, who you may have heard of. I remember Knox dearly.

Dr. David Majit:

What a wonderful guy yeah, a really bright guy ahead of his time as far as being a hearing aid dispenser, and a fellow named Richard Scott Sure. So I joined them and moved to Southern California, which made my wife very happy, since it's much warmer weather. Oh yeah, and we started that business back in 1977. And then the rest is history, and that's where we actually. We had met Gary in 1978 at an ASHA convention, and Gary was there to look to purchase some equipment for his clinics in Saskatoon, and I think he was also considering moving to Saskatoon at that time. I think he had enough of the cold weather.

Dr. David Majit:

And we interviewed him and we offered him a position. And, gary, why don't you explain what determining factor made you decide to join us?

Dr. Gary Dorf:

So the short story is and David had every fact correct what he just indicated in late 78. Correct what he just indicated in late 78,. I was asked by the Saskatoon government, province of Saskatchewan, to go down to Ashen and buy some audiologic equipment. I went down there. I ran into a very dear friend of mine from New York, ron Meltzner, who at that point was working for Widex Hearing Aid Company and later became the president of Widex USA and Hal Henn.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

And Hal Henn, and he introduced me to David and Dick because he knew they were working the Widex product number one as a consulting firm and they were also looking for an audiologist. Now they had just received the contract with the LA City School System which at that point had the largest deaf and hard of hearing program in the nation, and they needed somebody to manage that. So I gave it some thought because David was right. I've been in Saskatoon about two and a half years and I was looking towards New York. I never thought California would be an option and anyway David invited me one night to a party bus that they had rented for a lot of their accounts. I said what the hell? I really didn't know many people. So it ended up in Chinatown at a restaurant and, you know, towards the evening I thanked David and Richard, who was on the bus as well, and I said let me give it some thought. And I didn't have to give it much thought because next morning I looked in the mirror and said California, here I come.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Oh, that's great, that's great. So you worked with you guys worked with a lot of the folks that I was touching base with back in those days and it was so much fun to be in the profession back then because everybody was about sharing knowledge and supporting each other and you know it was quite what's a good word word. It was a very exciting young profession. I mean, the profession's been around since the end of world war ii. And david you were talking about, sir, and that was mark ross, was there back in those days and mark was another lovely guy just you know give you the shirt off his back and so well versed in oral rehabilitation and everything he went through in the military with his hearing loss. Just just an amazing situation. I think you guys were really there in the heyday and what a great ride. So I have a couple of questions I want to ask about. So Gary Mick Jagger called and he mentioned that he had dinner with you recently. Can you talk about that?

Dr. Gary Dorf:

So obviously I've been covering Hollywood and LA and Beverly Hills for the last 40 years so I have had, as David has had, several opportunities to meet famous people and actually help fit several famous people. So, without name dropping, mick Jagger. The story about Mick Jagger was I actually was at dinner with my lovely wife Debra late one night in Beverly Hills at a kind of a sushi hole-in-the-wall restaurant, and it was about 11.30, 12 o'clock. The place was pretty jammed because it is small and in that room they have tables that are like five inches from each other right, oh yeah, typical sushi. And there's the only table in the place left is literally right next to mine. I mean this distance away from me, like as close as I am to you.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Anyway, I'm facing the door and in walks Mick Jagger and the only seat is next to me and in comes Mick Jagger and I'm following him and Debbie's sitting opposite me. She doesn't see him at this point and finally he gets to be right over here and he's coming to sit very close to me and I literally have to get off and we literally rub shoulders. He sits down. You know, I'm like this is surreal. Everybody in the restaurant obviously takes out their phone and this and that. Anyway, he sits down next to me and I have no recollection, truthfully, of what I said to me and I have no recollection, truthfully, of what I said, but I did introduce myself and ultimately, being the professional he is, he said well, it's very nice to meet you and your lovely wife and I hope you have a wonderful dinner and the conversation so you guys are kind of like this it served it served my purpose.

Dr. David Majit:

Gary, don't forget or leave out the part that immediately after that he moved his table.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Yes, he did. Oh yeah, See, that was the part he told me.

Dr. David Majit:

Gary neglects to include that.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

After you spilled his wine, because you were so close and your hand did his wine.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Sorry, doug, he stayed there about 10 minutes and if the name Nobu means anything to anybody in the sushi world, this was Nobu's first restaurant. And out comes Nobu, standing behind me, talking to Mick Jagger and asking if he would like to move his table. And Mick did flinch an eye and they found the table that had just opened up on the other side of the room.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

So, david, I was looking you up, you know, because we were. You know, shoot, I think I first started working with you guys in the mid 80s, something like that. There was a time when I lived in Seal Beach and you guys had a clinical and a business office in Seal Beach, california right outside of the leisure world, I might add, and you know it was an amazing situation because that was the first office that I ever saw that I thought, oh, this makes sense, having a hearing aid office right in the shopping mall there, strip mall of a retirement home. That was brilliant and I know that office did so well for very, very long because of the two of you and David. What I was going to say is I first read about you, though, in 1985 in the LA Times.

Dr. David Majit:

That was a very interesting time. We called it the bubble. It was made by Innovate and it was a plastic earpiece that just fit in the ear with no electronics that was supposed to give you a boost from the 2,000 to 4,000 hertz range of about 10 to 12 dB, and so it was designed for mild high-frequency losses, and I can tell you that article propelled us for the next two years. I know it was so busy.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

It was unbelievable and, honestly, the guy mentioned you and he mentioned CLB, whoever was doing the interview, and I remember that back in those days because I knew you back then. I remember that innovate was quite a big thing for audiologists and dispensers and folks who don't know. It was as david described. You would take a custom impression and there's no electronics at all. It was just a shell and, exactly as david said, it was supposed to resonate at two thousand to to 4,000 hertz. Well, male ear canal resonance is maximal at about 2,700 hertz. Female canal resonance is maximal at about 3,100 hertz. So you know they had this little pocket that they were doing and I think some people got really good results. I mean, they were the darn thing.

Dr. David Majit:

Yeah, and that was a very popular device. It was reasonably inexpensive for the patient and again people were coming in with severe to profound losses begging to try this product. So it was an interesting time.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

And now they're off the market for a long time. So, gary, more interesting than audiology, I think, is probably being a taxi driver in New York and, if I recall, your dad had a medallion, right?

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Wow, very good, doug. Yes, my dad bought a medallion. He had, his two older brothers had provided him some funding and he bought a medallion. Yeah, in 19.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Tell us what a medallion is, because I don't think people in 2025.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Okay. Well, my dad struggled to find his place and his workplace and he wound up driving a cab a taxi cab in New York, and in order to be your own boss, basically driving rather than working for a fleet of taxi cabs which was pretty prominent in New York at that time you would pay the city a fee for a medallion, and the medallion oddly enough, believe it or not, I have one behind me. It's not visual here here, but it's up okay, because I I bought one at a swap meet a couple of years ago. It's just the tag that indicates that you own this cab and you are self-employed.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Basically, and, yes, medallions though. Yeah, I mean, they could go for a quarter million bucks.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

So my dad, yes, bought it for $16,000 at probably mid-60s and it was his self-employment. He worked, you know, six days a week, eight hours a day, 10 hours a day, and then he sold it for $78,000, for like about $47,000. So it appreciated pretty quickly. But you know, medallions kind of did get up to almost a million dollars until Uber hit. And if you hear Mark Cuban talk, he said the investment he didn't make, which was the worst choice, was an Uber, because he felt that the taxi industry would never allow Uber in the big cities and that was his reason for not investing. And look what happened to the taxi drivers. They're kind of a, you know they're still there. But boy, medallions are down to almost nothing at this point. But do you?

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

even need a medallion anymore to drive in New York for a taxi.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Yeah, yeah, the medallion is still a viable option to be self-employed. But you know there's a lot of graft in that. We found out afterwards. So yeah, it's certainly not the 1960 medallion that my dad had. Thanks for asking.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

Doug, oh, absolutely. And David, did I hear something that you lectured in Japan, or did I get that wrong?

Dr. David Majit:

Actually you did hear that. I'm not sure who you heard it from. I won't say it was a malicious rumor, but I did go to Japan for Widex, because what was going on in Japan back in the late 90s and early 2000s was that they were still fitting monorail people 90% of the time, or monorail hearing aids 90% of the time, I should say and they didn't really have a good grasp of the hearing aid industry. There is no audiology in Japan. If people wanted an audiology degree they would go to Australia to attend university there and there were very few audiologists. And so the people in Japan, especially the Widex people who we were working with, thought what was going on in the US was really cutting edge. So I would go over there and give some talks to the people at Widex, japan and so forth, and then one time they invited both Gary and I to do a tour with them, which was quite interesting.

Dr. David Majit:

I think we did four different lectures throughout Japan in the different large cities, and, unlike seminars that we'd have here we might get 20 or 30 people, we had hundreds of people attend these meetings and they'd all be wearing headphones to translate what we were saying. And what was fun was when they would start the meeting. They would kind of, you know, go through the agenda and then they would introduce Gary and I to the music born in the USA by Bruce Springsteen, and it was really a big deal. As you know, the Japanese personality is such they're quite shy in front of large groups. So one would say are there any questions? Maybe we'd get one or two questions from the audience, but then afterwards one would go to are there any questions? Maybe we'd get one or two questions from the audience, but then afterwards one would go to the buffet. There would be lines of people waiting to ask us questions, and it was just a fantastic experience.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Gary, would you like to expand on that a little bit? No, it was really special because one of the things I don't think David had alluded to, one of the reasons Sato-san, who was the president of Widex Japan at that point really a nice guy. He invited us over because the providers there really fit about 90% monorally. They wanted us to teach them how to fit binaurally because the doctors were in charge but they were afraid to usurp what the doctors had recommended to them. So we did a stage where David and I role played to these hundreds and hundreds of people.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

I remember the Tokyo session was in a disco hall, you know it wasn't with the disco ball hanging above us. It love it. It was kind of surreal. And then we got up on stage and I forgot that there's an interpreter standing right next to me and I'm starting to talk to David and then somebody taps me on the shoulder and said slow down, slow down. So we had a blast and Santo-san couldn't be more. I mean, he was really, really generous of his time. We had a great time.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

It was a lot of fun, All right. Well, listen, I'm so honored you guys spent some time here tonight. Tell me you've been, I want to say, 48, 49 years an audiologist and what are your reflections on that and your advice for young audiologists?

Dr. David Majit:

Well, thank you, doug, for the question. I think it's a very interesting field. I think it's so varied field. I think it's so varied. There's so many aspects of audiology that one can get into, aside from doing dispensing. There's the diagnostics and there's the balance and there's the rehab and so on and so forth. So there's really and like yourself, where you got involved in surgery and so forth so cochlear implants. So there's a lot of different aspects of audiology, and so I think it's very interesting. I think you're doing a great service by really helping people who really need may not want it initially, but really need the assistance. So the field has been very good to carry on. I have to say that we've been very fortunate. I think it's still a field that one can thrive in if they're motivated and ambitious, and so I would certainly recommend for those people who are interested in helping people, something that you can do, where you're really spending the time really improving yourself and improving lives for other people. So I would certainly encourage people to consider audiology as a profession.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

And, oddly enough, apparently you considered that when you recommended to your son, andrew, that he should become an audiologist, right? So, yeah, yeah, give us 30 seconds on Andrew. Andrew Maggi, one of my favorite, one of the funniest people in all of audiology. I love listening to him lecture. And, gary, let's look at you for a few seconds before we let you roll and tell me your reflections. You're at this a while as well. Tell me about your thoughts on the profession and what do you think about the future of audiology.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Well, you know, getting into the profession at the beginning, you know you never sit. You know, getting into the profession at the beginning, you know you never sit. I'm now 49 years in, so you know who thought. You know, number one, the profession would provide me such joy. You know, I never felt it was work. I enjoyed every part of every bit of audiology that I touched and that goes from. You know, the time in Canada dispensing working for kids in school for the deaf. You know, running our own business, whether it's the retail business or the consulting business, I mean the run we've had has been just amazing.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

I do want to shout out to a few people that we have had by our side for many years.

Dr. Gary Dorf:

Donna Brzozowski, who many people might know, and Terry Canfield really helped support both of our businesses and without them and the other people who they all know who they are, who worked for us, they were instrumental in the fun we had. But also how well the businesses did. You know, for me, going back into the clinic and seeing patients kind of going full circle, and seeing patients kind of going full circle, I can't even begin to think of how many people we have helped over these past 40, 50 years both David I and you in terms of making their lives better and look for a job. If anybody's looking for a position or a career, audiology is really, really a terrific opportunity and option because you're dealing with technology. You're dealing with the growth of an industry. You're dealing with the growth of technology, but you're also helping people and for me, going back into the clinic and ending my career at some point seeing patients I can't imagine a richer opportunity for those people who are looking to make their way in the world.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

I couldn't be happier. Well, you know we could go on and on for hours, but I wanted to give you guys the chance to be on Hearing Matters podcast. I think you're both giants in the profession and the industry.

Dr. Douglas L. Beck:

And I think that you know, although there are, admittedly, thousands, of thousands of people who know you most of them, oddly enough, know you as professionals they don't know you as individuals and the stuff you've been through and accomplished. So I'm glad that we had the opportunity to address some of that. I love you guys, I'm so proud of you both and I will look forward to the next time we get together.

Dr. David Majit:

Well, thank you, Doug, and just another quick word. We want to congratulate you on all the many, many contributions you've made to the profession and to all the audiologists out there. Thank you so much. You guys have a great evening. Take care. Thanks again, Doug.

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Blaise M. Delfino, M.S. - HIS

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