Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha, NE. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
Don't Skip This - Week 2
Dina, Pastor Roger, and Kate unpack the next message in Don’t Skip This, starting in Mark 5 with the powerful encounter with Jesus and a demon-possessed man. They explore the reality of spiritual warfare, the compassion of Christ to meet us in our mess, and the transformative power that turns even the most broken stories into testimonies of hope and purpose.
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Thanks for listening!
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our sermon series and figure out what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Deena Newsom and I have some wonderful guests here today. Go ahead and introduce yourselves.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Okay, I'm Roger Timer. I'm one of the pastors on staff.
Speaker 3:And I'm Kate Solberg, the associate campus director at our Northwest campus.
Speaker 2:But my title's shorter.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:Because I can't spell all those words.
Speaker 1:So thank you guys for being here today. I don't know if you know, but this week is World Chocolate Day. Stop it. Yeah, yeah, it is. Are you chocolate fans?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. So my question for you is what's your favorite kind of chocolate?
Speaker 2:Favorite kind of chocolate is with wine at night watching movie on a movie night. Friday night, dark chocolate.
Speaker 1:Dark chocolate.
Speaker 2:But I had to create the whole ambiance.
Speaker 3:That's like the healthy chocolate too. Dark chocolate, that's true. Nice job it is yeah. Also trivia Okay.
Speaker 2:Which kind of chocolate do kids more like? Dark or milk?
Speaker 3:Milk.
Speaker 2:Yes, more sugar. That's from the old children's ministry days yes, but this is about you, kate. This isn't about us. What's your chocolate favorite?
Speaker 3:my favorite would be like those fancy chocolates that are called turtles. Oh, have you seen them? It's like pecans caramel and then chocolate on the top. Yeah, yum.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm a big fan right now of sea salt on chocolate. Yes yes yes, and it doesn't matter really what kind, but the sea salt on there that's. I'm digging that right now.
Speaker 2:Trivia.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Baker's chocolate. Are you fans?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Why in the world? Not Do we have to have an argument on air.
Speaker 3:They don't make turtles there either, so have you been in their candy store? I've driven by it many times.
Speaker 2:They've got every kind of candy there.
Speaker 3:Oh, they have turtles.
Speaker 2:Well, I bet they do, but they don't make them at Baker's.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, for sure.
Speaker 2:I know You're a fan.
Speaker 3:You're a fan I am a fan.
Speaker 2:I am a fan, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And visiting their little factory there.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's fun. That's fun, well, going from chocolate to maybe some things that are lesser known. We're in week two of our sermon series hey, don't Skip this where we're looking at Bible events that maybe are not the ones that we hear all the time or the ones we heard necessarily growing up. And this week Pastor Greg Griffith kind of dove into an event from Mark, the book of Mark, in chapter five, and if you wanted to look this up on your own, it's kind of verses 1 through 20. But this story is interesting and different. So, pastor Roger, I was wondering if you'd just give us a brief rundown of kind of like a summary of this story.
Speaker 2:Well, a bigger context is Mark loves to talk about power encounters. Context is Mark loves to talk about power encounters as the gospel writer and this is one of those big ones, because Jesus has a power encounter with demons within a demon-possessed man. Now, this is in a land of Gentiles, so it's kind of unclean that way. The guy is unclean because he's been ostracized from society, chained outside, and he's a wild man and he's out there naked, scary, and that's just the kind of person that Jesus is looking for to give freedom and release to. And he does as he casts those demons out and they go into a herd of unclean pigs off the hill. And it does not make Jesus popular with the community, but that's not the point. The point is that he delivered that man from the grip of Satan.
Speaker 2:And he offers deliverance to us as well.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen. So what are you guys taking beyond Sunday from this message, this overview?
Speaker 3:Well, I was kind of looking at the verses that came before chapter five and that's when Jesus calms the storm and the disciples are like, how are you asleep, jesus? And I thought, man, what an anxiety-ridden day they had, because they're coming from the storm and they watch Jesus command the wind and waves to stop, to approaching this man that all of society was afraid of, and I think he was probably afraid of himself as well, because he had no control over these demons. And I love verse six because it says and bowed low before him, and I thought, well, that's what we're all supposed to do. I mean instantly, the demons within this man submitted to Jesus. So right away. We know, like Pastor Rudder said, the power that Jesus had within his presence.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's an interesting encounter when we talk about demon possession, so I was thinking about that and some of the contemporary context of that. Today in America, that's usually not a primary strategy of the enemy to possess people with a type of overtaking them, such as this man. There's a difference between possession and oppression. Oppression is just having a grip on people. In other cultures, especially in cultures that deal with a worldview of power encounter, it's much more common that there's demon possession like this.
Speaker 2:But I would say that, in terms of the man and his conversation with Jesus, when it comes to possession questions, sometimes it is the voice of the demon and sometimes it is not. So when he ran toward Jesus, was that the demons running towards Jesus or was that the man running towards Jesus, or do you make a difference at that point? But we do know that Jesus had a direct conversation with the demons.
Speaker 3:Right, I don't know. In my brain I would think it's the man. Like I don't know. I think there's a chance like for the first time ever saw, maybe relief yeah, yeah, well, and also too, um.
Speaker 2:this is in a series, especially in the gospel narratives jesus is in the process of revealing who he is right, and the beauty of these events they're not just stories, they are events, as Pastor Greg mentioned is that we see different perspectives of who he is as the Son of God, our Savior, and this is a perspective that's consistent all the way through is that he is a one who goes to people at their point of need, particularly those that need him most, and that might be the outcast. So that's kind of where we are with this guy.
Speaker 1:So what I found really interesting about this is that you know, as part of this, like you said, jesus has a conversation with the man, or basically a conversation with the demons, and the demons ask him not to destroy them but to send them, send them into the pigs. I'm curious, like what you think of that, like what I? I have struggled to understand, because then the pigs immediately ran and drowned themselves, and so I'm curious, why did they want that instead of just Jesus destroying them? If they knew that this was it? That's what I've been, my brain's been searching on since sunday and I haven't found anything like in my, you know, internet interwebs, google searches, to kind of elaborate on that. But that's the part in the story where I'm like, what's that? Like they were dying anyway, or the demons were being you know what I mean like it just is interesting to me that they asked for his grace I guess I would almost summarize it as grace to put them into the pigs. But then the pigs immediately ran and drowned.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, this is good. Uh-oh yeah, because now there's actually a whole theology of demons. Demons are heavenly creatures and they will continue on, they do not terminate, so they don't quote die. They did have a creation and in heaven they had the choice that God, out of His love, gives to all of mankind but gave to the heavenly creatures. But after you made your choice, you were locked, and that choice is would you want to live in my kingdom of love, honoring the author of love, myself, or do you want to reject it and build your own kingdom, which would be a kingdom of darkness? And some chose that. And there's a head demon over that, called Satan, and that's locked. Those decisions are locked.
Speaker 2:The battleground here's the point. How do they get back at God? They get back at God by going after the apple of his eye, his prized creatures, those made in his image you and me. And that's why they hate this man, because he's loved by God. And they're getting back at God for that. And they know I'm pretty sure they know their ultimate destiny will be, after the judgment day, thrown in the pit forever, and it's completely sealed off from the presence of God. So for the time being, let us get thrown into the pigs and the pigs might die. Then they, as spiritual beings, would go a-wandering to see where else they might inflict. Okay, my take Okay.
Speaker 1:No, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and biblically not that I know for sure on all those things, but biblically there's a basis for that perspective.
Speaker 1:That just was where my brain was stirring this week.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And Jesus had the authority to send them to hell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and that final judgment is going to come on the last day, right, and he could send them to hell right now. However he can send them, he has the authority to rebuke them, more importantly, out of that man. Now here's the thing, when Jesus says to his disciples and to you and me as a church, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples. That was in Matthew's Great Commission. Well, in Mark's Great Commission, you also have signs and wonders. You have authority.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And as a church sometimes we would exercise that authority in casting out demons Right.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I'm ready for that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll help you get ready. Do you want to hear a story? Yes, I'll tell you one story, okay, yes, please, okay, so this would be in Africa, in Nigeria. My brother was a missionary there for 10 years and there was, as he was planting a church, very much. It's a culture, a power culture. So you battle against the voodoo witch doctor of the town and your authority is always in what Jesus Christ has done for us, the name of Jesus, the power of his blood and the work of the finished cross. Those things come up repeatedly. So that's the authority that's being used.
Speaker 2:Now one of the guys there was brought by his parents and he said he's having all the demonic manifestations. And he flat out did. He had made so-called a bargain with the devil that he would have success as an artist, get off to a venue where he learned it in the big city and became an artist and he had some success. But he came back just crazed, demonically possessed, and they brought him to my brother and he was manifesting. So they took him out in their area where they have their overhang, out in the field where their church met. They were just praying over him repeatedly, repeatedly, and then the voice would personify, it would come up and speak out against him. And the guy took off running. He was just running for the bush. This is what my brother said. So what we did is we just said in the name of Jesus, stop. And it was like he got pinned on the back.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You know, and brought him back and continued to pray. And it's not just. There's so many different ways it works. Sometimes it can be instantaneously, sometimes it's a long duration, but it always comes back to using the authority of what Jesus has done for us and praying that into people's lives, cause that's what frees us from the grip of the enemy.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I've always, I've always taught my kids. I'm like if you do not know how to pray, you pray the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Pray the name of Jesus.
Speaker 3:It's always correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Nothing wrong about that. So Pastor Greg made a statement kind of towards the start of the message where he talked about God is intentional, about meeting us in our mess, and I'm just curious how that spoke to you. How are you related to that?
Speaker 3:Yep, he sure does Am.
Speaker 2:I supposed to say amen. I will, amen galore.
Speaker 3:I think the more I study the scripture, the more God reveals to me like, yes, he was working by his grace on this man, but he was also like working in the lives of everyone who was there too, and he was preparing the disciples for what power they would have in his name when he would be gone, his name when he would be gone. And I think he was also revealing in all of creation. We're the only ones created in his image, so those people that were there were protected by him. Pigs are not made in the image of God, and Jesus would always choose if he had to. You know, that's where he's going to send his demons.
Speaker 3:So it showed the value he placed on human life and especially this town. You know they'd gone through all their plan A, plan B, plan C. They could not stop this man. He'd broken his shackles, he was cutting himself. I mean, they were at their wit's end and I know I've felt that way in my own life, in parenting. And whom shall I go to? You have the words of eternal life. Unfortunately, a lot of times we have to get to that point where, well, I can't do it on my own. In fact, I'm making it worse on myself and luckily hopefully, as we walk further with the Lord, that turnaround time is a lot quicker.
Speaker 2:I'm not even going to try this time. I can't say that so well, you say that so well. So what I was thinking of when it comes to Mass, of course, I thought of the shame that he felt, being naked and also ostracized because they couldn't deal with him, and also in that culture, being demonically possessed is not a socially graceful activity. It is not.
Speaker 3:Sure not.
Speaker 2:Maybe frowned upon, maybe perhaps, but there is a metaphor at play here. Not a metaphor, perhaps, an image that is a great handle for the gospel, and it's nakedness that also is very much akin public nakedness is akin to shame, and that's why the Romans were very intentional that when they crucified they crucified naked, because they wanted to heap shame on that criminal. And they did so by crucifying in public places, along paths, where that would welcome the disdain of any passerby. And Jesus, as he sees this man naked in his shame, I don't know what goes through his mind. But he knows what's coming, because for him to have the authority to free him from the grip of the enemy, he's going to have to take all the weight of this man's sin and shame on himself, and he's going to have to be displayed naked and ridiculed, but even more than that, to bear the punishment that is really deserved for sin, which is cast out, not just a social setting of a village, but cast out of God's presence. So that's what I was thinking of.
Speaker 2:My goodness, the mess of this world. It all landed right on Jesus and he demonstrated that way. But when he rose from the dead and we also see visions of him in those resurrection and in revelation with his white robe, I love how Pastor Greg had someone come on up and he covered them with a robe. It's a beautiful picture. It's very redeeming. It kind of tied into the king who wore, that's kind of-.
Speaker 1:The emperor's new clothes that he talked about? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, the imagery in the Bible is the word justification, which means to be declared righteous, which means to be covered with his robe of righteousness, so that God sees Jesus' robe of righteousness, and it covers our shame, our nakedness, and it is what we have as not just our acceptance and forgiveness, but also as our status now as a royalty, which is kind of a picture I had when I saw that too. So that was what was going through my mind when I was thinking about this imagery that works through the Bible on nakedness and shame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the part I really focused on on that phrase was intentional. I always think, like I think when my kids were little and would get into trouble and, oh yeah, I got to save them from this, oh yeah, no, don't touch that. No, put that down. You know things, it wasn't always intentional, it was happenstance. But God like this, where he says God is intentional about meeting us in our mess. He knows it, he's coming for it, and I really that intentionality that just spoke to me about how much he cares about us.
Speaker 2:Dina, do you think that he knew that going to this area, this kind of Gentile area that's not frequently traveled by good Jewish people, do you think he knew that guy was there and he was intentional about going to seek him out?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I had not even thought about that I think everything like when you read the Gospels as a whole, all of these random stories. I mean sometimes it's like, oh, this is like a soap opera or a drama. How many bad situations can you come across in a day? And I know the gospel highlights those situations to reflect who Jesus is. But can you even imagine being one of the disciples and walking around with him and oh, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this amazing thing happened and just, piece by piece by piece, firming up that foundation of this really is God here on earth. This really is a miracle. He is doing again. Like, just, I don't know, I just think the disciples or the people that were witnessing these things just must have been flabbergasted, but also like, oh, yep, I should know that by now. You know, after so many times, he just continues to reveal his power. But I, yeah, I just really, I definitely think he knew that this was going to happen.
Speaker 1:That he came there for that purpose.
Speaker 3:Well, and then it said I think it's verse 15. Sorry, I should have had this ready, but at the end it said that he was fully clothed and perfectly sane, right, and they were all afraid because I'm sure they were like what just happened, right?
Speaker 3:You know, and some of them were begging him to leave, you know, because I think they were scared of Jesus's power. But can you imagine like the people of that town being like now wait a minute, who are you? Wait what? What happened? Like this is nuts. And it just shows again how Jesus consistently calls the unlikely people. And so we, as unlikely people, can be sure yes, god is calling you, yep, you're the one. He equips the called. He doesn't call the equipped. So yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:So as Greg kind of continued talking about this, he was talking about all of the little demons and he talked about little demons and he really asked the question of us what little demons are you struggling with? So how did that hit you? Did you think of something in your own life that is a a little demon you're struggling with right now?
Speaker 2:well, I think that it's a question we should daily ask oh yeah yeah, and I mean, you know, we sometimes talk about the unholy trinity, which is our battle against Satan himself, also the world and its influence, and then also our own inclination, our flesh, our sinful orientation, orientation. Well, satan and his demons do have the power of thought. They can suggest thoughts. They can't read your mind, by the way, but they can suggest thoughts. But what goes along really well is knowing you well enough to know what are those tender spots in your spirit that they can suggest thoughts to. And the diabolical ones are thoughts of bitterness or unforgiveness, or envy or jealousy. They're not just the juicy ones, like you know lust and greed and avarice, you know. And the world is making a great case for it.
Speaker 2:So it deems it necessary that we pause and ask the question daily. That's why it's in the Lord's Prayer Deliver us from the Greek is not evil, generic. Deliver us from the evil one. There's a person there and his forces and lead us not into temptation. Well, that's our entire battle. So in my own spiritual rhythms I'm regularly asking Lord, what do I need to talk to you about? That's got a grip on me and I could tell you what I talked about this morning but I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:I'll save you and that's just fine. Not for public consumption.
Speaker 1:That's one of the things I love about your relationship with God, though Like it's so personal.
Speaker 3:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean Like you can be so relational with Him, but so personal. It's not something you have to share with anyone else.
Speaker 2:He just loves to hear from you, he loves to accept you. He is not embarrassed. It's not like you're going to embarrass Him by showing Him something. He's already seen that, yeah, and also, I think, a new thing for me, because I'm reading a lot of these accounts of the near-death experiences, and people have these encounters with Jesus in their little gateway entrance into heaven, though they never pass completely, because they don't completely die. They're called back, but there is, for a certain percent of them, a review and they look at their whole life in review. So that begs the question for me. I'm thinking, well, how am I going to feel? I mean that's going to oh, oh, oh. Going to feel. I mean that's going to oh, oh, oh.
Speaker 2:But what they continue to come back to is how accepted and loved they felt and those things that were less than loving, that needed. You know that they wish they could redo was something that wasn't held over them because they were the one that was judging it and in the sense, they've already passed out through faith in Christ. It says in John 3, we've already passed out of judgment, you know. So it does matter what we do? Yes, it does, but it need not be one of those things that we have to hide, those things from him that are failures or faults or foibles. Let's bring them up so he can deal with them and we can get over it.
Speaker 1:Little demons or big demons? Kate, do you have any little demons? Here?
Speaker 3:Yeah, mine is similar to what Roger said Just a prayer. I pray a lot is just order my day and my time, because if left to me, I will waste big chunks of it. I will do things that don't matter, I will err on the side of laziness, and we don't know how many days we have left on earth, and I want to be someone in heaven who has a crown to lay before him. And so order my steps. It helps me to pray with open hands, just like you were saying. I want Jesus to take everything. I don't want to hang on to the bitterness, the unforgiveness, the resentfulness Like wash over me. Forgive me for the sins that I'm not even aware of or make me aware of them. That's a dangerous prayer right there. Even aware of or make me aware of them, that's a dangerous prayer, right there.
Speaker 1:But again, it's just that, desiring to be refined so you're more usable for him. I feel like my little demons are like just that I struggle the most with are pieces of this broken human world, like patience, like right now there's a situation in my life where God has put someone in my life who I know he has put in my life for me to minister, to just to show kindness and love and patience to them, but this person cannot get a clue. Like they just keep making poor choices. They keep kind of making the same mistakes, I feel like, and I feel like they feel like they're just smashing their head into a wall again and again and again, but they don't seem to be learning from it.
Speaker 1:And I'm struggling sometimes with my patients and continuing to try to steer them in the right direction or to really get them to turn things over to God and allow Him to work in their life.
Speaker 1:And there's times where I'm just like Lord, I have had enough. You need to shower me in the patience because I don't want to answer that phone call or I don't want to go to that lunch date with them, because I'm frustrated that they don't seem to be learning. And so it's God's calling me. I know he has put me in this position to help this person, but I'm struggling with this little demon of okay, I got to set my patience aside. I got to use his patience and I got to just keep plugging away at it aside. I got to use his patience and I got to just keep plugging away at it, and sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall till I really turn it over to him and listen to my own words that I'm telling this person to do with their situation, to do with this situation. So that's my, that's one of my little demons I'm struggling with right now of my little demons I'm struggling with right now.
Speaker 2:Doesn't it feel good? I had my prayer partner time this morning and I've had the same prayer partner for 27, 28 years.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And sometimes we need to talk out loud our lives and identify those things that we need to pray about, and it's usually oftentimes things that, well, that might be a point of the enemy's attack and I might be giving ground there, and it's just helpful to talk it out with someone and then, you know, to pray about it.
Speaker 3:So valuable.
Speaker 1:So, as we wrap up today, what are your final takeaways from this message from our? Don't Skip this.
Speaker 3:Mine is just verse 19. I just alluded to it before and how Pastor Greg said this was the first Gentile missionary that he sent out, which is incredible. But Jesus and I love that he asks he wants to get in the boat with Jesus. I love that. I just thought, oh, you know, I hope that I'm that way. You know, I want to stay close to Jesus. But Jesus gave him an assignment. He said no, go home to your family and tell them everything the Lord has done for you and how merciful he has been. And it says right after that. So the man started off to visit and he obeyed. Jesus gave him assignment and he obeyed and I thought I mean, it's pretty, it is miraculous. When he saw Jesus, he ran to him and when Jesus spoke to him, he obeyed. And I thought that's what I need to do.
Speaker 1:That's the same thing I noted about this where he wanted to go and Jesus is like no, you need to go, tell other people what has happened here. And that's that picture of Jesus continuing to reveal who he is to the people there. And just what redemption for this man to be able to go and talk about Holy moly. Yeah, just amazing.
Speaker 2:Dina, that is such a good word for this story Redemption Because he was not just set free. Redemption because he was not just set free, he was redeemed for an another purpose, sharing that same love that he received in the power that is in jesus. That's huge, yeah. And and I think that's probably kind of one of my takeaways on this is there's a sign to this.
Speaker 2:If you put yourself in the event where it is a peelback of the heavenly realities and you're seeing a clash against the Son of God Himself and demonic forces, and it's not of this world and it's just going to seem crazy, but it's more real or as real as anything else around. And I think that what I left with is sensing that this real world, this kingdom world that Jesus is operating in, that he's speaking his word, in this bringing freedom and relief, is the same world that we are offered as well. So what do we sing? That need that word, that need that authority of Jesus' name, that need that healing touch, because he has defeated the power and the grip of the enemy through his life, that he lived in our place, his death that paid the price and the resurrection that makes him the living God who is with us today, so let's use that authority.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, like Pastor Greg said, evil is not displaced, it has been destroyed. That's Jesus, yes, yeah, well, thank you guys for being here today. I'm excited to hear week three of this. Hey, don't Skip this message, and until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.
