{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3600.0,"endTime":3603.199,"body":"(Music)"},{"startTime":3604.4,"endTime":3606.533,"body":"Hey folks, welcome to the DarkHorse"},{"startTime":3606.533,"endTime":3608.8,"body":"podcast live stream."},{"startTime":3608.8,"endTime":3609.866,"body":"It's the 308th."},{"startTime":3610.166,"endTime":3611.4,"body":"I am Dr."},{"startTime":3611.4,"endTime":3611.766,"body":"Bret Weinstein."},{"startTime":3612.133,"endTime":3612.666,"body":"You are Dr."},{"startTime":3612.666,"endTime":3613.133,"body":"Heather Heying."},{"startTime":3613.666,"endTime":3616.466,"body":"I'm gonna say with a certain degree of"},{"startTime":3616.466,"endTime":3618.966,"body":"assuredness, 308 is not prime."},{"startTime":3620.333,"endTime":3621.633,"body":"But it is the first of the new year."},{"startTime":3622.066,"endTime":3623.133,"body":"So happy new year to"},{"startTime":3623.133,"endTime":3624.133,"body":"everyone who's watching."},{"startTime":3624.666,"endTime":3625.466,"body":"Yes, happy new year."},{"startTime":3625.699,"endTime":3627.466,"body":"Indeed, I hope it is an excellent one."},{"startTime":3627.466,"endTime":3629.466,"body":"I have concerns, but you know, that's"},{"startTime":3629.466,"endTime":3631.466,"body":"sort of my nature, I guess."},{"startTime":3631.833,"endTime":3632.133,"body":"Yes, it is."},{"startTime":3632.433,"endTime":3633.433,"body":"Yes, yes, it is."},{"startTime":3634.3,"endTime":3637.833,"body":"All right, so we're gonna talk about"},{"startTime":3639.199,"endTime":3640.666,"body":"animal communication."},{"startTime":3641.666,"endTime":3645.033,"body":"We're gonna talk about the safety of the"},{"startTime":3645.033,"endTime":3647.333,"body":"public relative to things like pesticides"},{"startTime":3647.333,"endTime":3648.599,"body":"and things that have"},{"startTime":3648.599,"endTime":3651.3,"body":"emerged on this front."},{"startTime":3651.866,"endTime":3655.333,"body":"And we'll see where it goes from there."},{"startTime":3655.933,"endTime":3656.966,"body":"And maybe some other things as well."},{"startTime":3657.366,"endTime":3658.466,"body":"So yeah, welcome everyone."},{"startTime":3659.166,"endTime":3660.099,"body":"Here we are in the new year."},{"startTime":3661.333,"endTime":3666.233,"body":"We will actually not be back next"},{"startTime":3666.233,"endTime":3666.966,"body":"Wednesday, but we'll be"},{"startTime":3666.966,"endTime":3669.033,"body":"back a short time after that."},{"startTime":3669.033,"endTime":3670.766,"body":"It's a strange January for us."},{"startTime":3671.266,"endTime":3672.3,"body":"Hopefully not too strange"},{"startTime":3672.3,"endTime":3673.466,"body":"for everyone else, but..."},{"startTime":3674.466,"endTime":3676.233,"body":"Well, hopefully it's good strange."},{"startTime":3676.533,"endTime":3677.133,"body":"Yeah, indeed."},{"startTime":3677.633,"endTime":3678.666,"body":"So we've got a watch"},{"startTime":3678.666,"endTime":3679.566,"body":"party going on at locals."},{"startTime":3679.566,"endTime":3680.333,"body":"As always, please"},{"startTime":3680.333,"endTime":3681.533,"body":"consider joining us there."},{"startTime":3681.733,"endTime":3683.566,"body":"And we have the rent to pay right at the"},{"startTime":3683.566,"endTime":3685.4,"body":"top of the hour with three carefully"},{"startTime":3685.4,"endTime":3687.566,"body":"chosen sponsors that if you hear us"},{"startTime":3687.566,"endTime":3691.333,"body":"reading ads, you know that we have"},{"startTime":3692.0,"endTime":3694.233,"body":"carefully vetted the products or the"},{"startTime":3694.233,"endTime":3695.233,"body":"services being offered."},{"startTime":3695.233,"endTime":3697.066,"body":"In this case, it's three sets of"},{"startTime":3697.066,"endTime":3698.733,"body":"products, all of which are awesome."},{"startTime":3699.333,"endTime":3703.066,"body":"So without further ado, let us go go"},{"startTime":3703.066,"endTime":3704.666,"body":"forth and pay our rent."},{"startTime":3704.666,"endTime":3706.5,"body":"We will sally forth whatever that means."},{"startTime":3706.5,"endTime":3708.133,"body":"Yeah, our first sponsor this week is..."},{"startTime":3708.4,"endTime":3709.433,"body":"You know what sally for?"},{"startTime":3709.8,"endTime":3711.533,"body":"I don't know why Sally has ended."},{"startTime":3711.533,"endTime":3711.833,"body":"You do it."},{"startTime":3711.833,"endTime":3718.166,"body":"Our first sponsor is a foraging Sally in,"},{"startTime":3718.166,"endTime":3720.033,"body":"for instance, a tropical bird."},{"startTime":3721.133,"endTime":3722.366,"body":"I think it's the same."},{"startTime":3722.366,"endTime":3723.266,"body":"It's the same word."},{"startTime":3723.599,"endTime":3724.599,"body":"So a foraging Sally."},{"startTime":3724.599,"endTime":3726.866,"body":"Okay, let's just back up."},{"startTime":3726.866,"endTime":3728.333,"body":"We're not doing ads at the moment."},{"startTime":3728.333,"endTime":3730.866,"body":"This is not paid content."},{"startTime":3731.866,"endTime":3733.3,"body":"The flycatchers are not paid."},{"startTime":3733.566,"endTime":3735.366,"body":"I'm going to tell the story myself to"},{"startTime":3735.366,"endTime":3736.4,"body":"allow you to, I don't"},{"startTime":3736.4,"endTime":3737.5,"body":"know, save face or something."},{"startTime":3737.599,"endTime":3737.933,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3738.666,"endTime":3740.433,"body":"But I think it was our first"},{"startTime":3740.433,"endTime":3743.866,"body":"field season as biologists."},{"startTime":3744.166,"endTime":3745.833,"body":"We had already spent some time in the"},{"startTime":3745.833,"endTime":3747.166,"body":"neotropics traveling together and"},{"startTime":3747.166,"endTime":3747.966,"body":"exploring and actually"},{"startTime":3747.966,"endTime":3749.366,"body":"doing some, and in Madagascar,"},{"startTime":3750.833,"endTime":3753.366,"body":"ending up helping on research projects."},{"startTime":3753.566,"endTime":3755.833,"body":"But our first summer after our first year"},{"startTime":3755.833,"endTime":3758.433,"body":"of grad school, we were in Costa Rica"},{"startTime":3758.433,"endTime":3761.366,"body":"with a few of the grad students and our"},{"startTime":3761.366,"endTime":3762.833,"body":"professor, John VanderMeer, who had"},{"startTime":3762.833,"endTime":3765.333,"body":"created a field course for us in the"},{"startTime":3765.333,"endTime":3765.933,"body":"style of the"},{"startTime":3765.933,"endTime":3766.966,"body":"Organization for Tropical Studies."},{"startTime":3767.266,"endTime":3768.133,"body":"Which simply wasn't"},{"startTime":3768.133,"endTime":3769.166,"body":"offering one that year."},{"startTime":3770.366,"endTime":3774.233,"body":"And although we had both spent some time"},{"startTime":3774.233,"endTime":3777.099,"body":"in tropical forest before, we didn't,"},{"startTime":3777.366,"endTime":3779.833,"body":"there are literally tens of thousands of"},{"startTime":3779.833,"endTime":3782.366,"body":"names to learn in any given forest and no"},{"startTime":3782.366,"endTime":3783.433,"body":"one knows all of them."},{"startTime":3783.433,"endTime":3784.833,"body":"And we specifically didn't"},{"startTime":3784.833,"endTime":3786.5,"body":"know the birds particularly well."},{"startTime":3786.5,"endTime":3787.733,"body":"And so I was standing with Dr."},{"startTime":3787.733,"endTime":3789.766,"body":"VanderMeer at some point and we were"},{"startTime":3789.766,"endTime":3794.766,"body":"watching a bird who had gone forth from a"},{"startTime":3794.766,"endTime":3796.833,"body":"branch and appeared to have been a"},{"startTime":3796.833,"endTime":3798.9,"body":"hawking insectivore, had caught something"},{"startTime":3798.9,"endTime":3800.8,"body":"in the air, an insect in"},{"startTime":3800.8,"endTime":3802.133,"body":"the air, and then gone back."},{"startTime":3802.133,"endTime":3803.633,"body":"And he said, \"That is a foraging Sally.\""},{"startTime":3804.233,"endTime":3805.966,"body":"I sort of dutifully wrote down in my"},{"startTime":3805.966,"endTime":3807.233,"body":"\"Right in the Rain\" notebook, I said,"},{"startTime":3807.233,"endTime":3808.099,"body":"\"Okay, that type of bird"},{"startTime":3808.099,"endTime":3809.433,"body":"is called a foraging Sally.\""},{"startTime":3809.866,"endTime":3812.099,"body":"And I don't know if I vocalized what I"},{"startTime":3812.099,"endTime":3813.4,"body":"was doing, but he looked at"},{"startTime":3813.4,"endTime":3815.133,"body":"me like I was just an idiot."},{"startTime":3815.133,"endTime":3816.666,"body":"He said, \"No, not the bird."},{"startTime":3816.9,"endTime":3820.4,"body":"The behavior is a foraging Sally in which"},{"startTime":3820.4,"endTime":3822.666,"body":"you, the bird, sallys"},{"startTime":3822.666,"endTime":3824.966,"body":"forth, forages and goes back."},{"startTime":3825.566,"endTime":3827.433,"body":"Therefore, when we sally forth, is it not"},{"startTime":3827.433,"endTime":3828.233,"body":"the very same Sally?\""},{"startTime":3829.466,"endTime":3830.666,"body":"I believe it is."},{"startTime":3831.033,"endTime":3833.3,"body":"And it's not done so much anymore."},{"startTime":3833.3,"endTime":3835.133,"body":"But back in the day, if you were to do it"},{"startTime":3835.266,"endTime":3837.699,"body":"on a horse, it would be a Mustang Sally."},{"startTime":3839.599,"endTime":3841.066,"body":"I was trying to help you save face."},{"startTime":3841.533,"endTime":3844.066,"body":"I think we're back."},{"startTime":3844.166,"endTime":3844.5,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3845.766,"endTime":3846.866,"body":"Back to the ads."},{"startTime":3847.266,"endTime":3847.466,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3847.533,"endTime":3848.199,"body":"Which we have not yet become."},{"startTime":3848.366,"endTime":3848.566,"body":"Nope."},{"startTime":3849.033,"endTime":3850.333,"body":"We are going to Sally Forth with the ads."},{"startTime":3851.166,"endTime":3852.066,"body":"Our first sponsor this week is"},{"startTime":3852.066,"endTime":3853.933,"body":"brand new to us as a sponsor."},{"startTime":3853.933,"endTime":3854.433,"body":"It's Xlear."},{"startTime":3854.633,"endTime":3857.133,"body":"That's X-L-E-A-R, but pronounced Clear."},{"startTime":3857.599,"endTime":3859.333,"body":"Xlear is a nasal spray that supports"},{"startTime":3859.333,"endTime":3860.566,"body":"respiratory health, and it's a product"},{"startTime":3860.566,"endTime":3862.166,"body":"that we've been using for a while now,"},{"startTime":3862.166,"endTime":3863.366,"body":"made by a company with"},{"startTime":3863.366,"endTime":3864.233,"body":"which we are well familiar."},{"startTime":3864.866,"endTime":3867.566,"body":"That's again, Xlear, X-L-E-A-R."},{"startTime":3868.066,"endTime":3869.533,"body":"Throughout history, improvements in"},{"startTime":3869.533,"endTime":3871.133,"body":"sanitation and hygiene have had huge"},{"startTime":3871.133,"endTime":3872.933,"body":"impacts on human longevity and quality of"},{"startTime":3872.966,"endTime":3875.566,"body":"life, more so often than traditional"},{"startTime":3875.566,"endTime":3876.933,"body":"medical advances have."},{"startTime":3876.933,"endTime":3878.166,"body":"For instance, when doctors started to"},{"startTime":3878.166,"endTime":3879.433,"body":"wash their hands between handling"},{"startTime":3879.433,"endTime":3881.033,"body":"cadavers and helping women give birth,"},{"startTime":3881.033,"endTime":3882.699,"body":"seems obvious to us now, but it wasn't"},{"startTime":3882.699,"endTime":3883.833,"body":"then, the rate of"},{"startTime":3883.833,"endTime":3885.166,"body":"maternal deaths went way down."},{"startTime":3885.766,"endTime":3886.833,"body":"Breathing polluted air and drinking"},{"startTime":3886.833,"endTime":3888.166,"body":"tainted water have usually negative"},{"startTime":3888.166,"endTime":3890.033,"body":"effects on human health, clean up the air"},{"startTime":3890.033,"endTime":3891.666,"body":"and water, and people get healthier."},{"startTime":3892.566,"endTime":3894.5,"body":"Nasal hygiene often gets overlooked, but"},{"startTime":3894.5,"endTime":3895.933,"body":"consider that the majority of bacteria"},{"startTime":3895.933,"endTime":3898.0,"body":"and viruses that make us sick enter"},{"startTime":3898.0,"endTime":3898.933,"body":"through our mouth and nose."},{"startTime":3899.466,"endTime":3901.0,"body":"It has become a cultural norm to wash our"},{"startTime":3901.0,"endTime":3903.066,"body":"hands in order to help stop the spread of"},{"startTime":3903.066,"endTime":3905.099,"body":"disease from person to person, but it's"},{"startTime":3905.099,"endTime":3906.533,"body":"rare that we get sick through our hands."},{"startTime":3907.133,"endTime":3907.866,"body":"Rather, we get sick"},{"startTime":3907.866,"endTime":3909.0,"body":"through our mouth and nose."},{"startTime":3909.366,"endTime":3910.533,"body":"Thus, it makes sense that we should be"},{"startTime":3910.533,"endTime":3912.066,"body":"using something that we know blocks"},{"startTime":3912.066,"endTime":3914.366,"body":"bacterial and viral adhesion in the nose."},{"startTime":3914.9,"endTime":3915.599,"body":"Enter Xlear."},{"startTime":3916.233,"endTime":3917.266,"body":"Xlear is a nasal spray"},{"startTime":3917.266,"endTime":3918.466,"body":"that contains xylitol."},{"startTime":3919.233,"endTime":3920.866,"body":"That's xylitol with an"},{"startTime":3920.866,"endTime":3922.5,"body":"X, hence Xlear with an X."},{"startTime":3923.166,"endTime":3924.866,"body":"Xylitol is a five-carbon sugar alcohol."},{"startTime":3925.133,"endTime":3926.833,"body":"Our bodies naturally contain five-carbon"},{"startTime":3926.833,"endTime":3927.9,"body":"sugars, mostly in the form"},{"startTime":3927.9,"endTime":3929.466,"body":"of ribose and deoxyribose."},{"startTime":3929.466,"endTime":3930.933,"body":"That's the R and the D in"},{"startTime":3930.933,"endTime":3932.933,"body":"RNA and DNA, respectively."},{"startTime":3933.166,"endTime":3935.233,"body":"Those are the backbone sugars of those"},{"startTime":3935.233,"endTime":3937.533,"body":"informational molecules that make up all"},{"startTime":3937.533,"endTime":3939.866,"body":"life that we know it on Earth, while most"},{"startTime":3939.866,"endTime":3941.699,"body":"of our dietary sugars have six carbons,"},{"startTime":3941.966,"endTime":3943.566,"body":"sugars like glucose and fructose."},{"startTime":3944.633,"endTime":3946.366,"body":"Xylitol is known, xylitol again, a"},{"startTime":3946.366,"endTime":3947.966,"body":"five-carbon sugar alcohol."},{"startTime":3948.566,"endTime":3950.166,"body":"Xylitol is known to reduce how sticky"},{"startTime":3950.166,"endTime":3951.933,"body":"bacteria and viruses are to our tissues."},{"startTime":3952.866,"endTime":3954.766,"body":"In the presence of xylitol, bacteria and"},{"startTime":3954.766,"endTime":3956.633,"body":"viruses, including for instance strep,"},{"startTime":3956.9,"endTime":3959.833,"body":"SARS-CoV-2 and RSV, don't adhere to our"},{"startTime":3959.833,"endTime":3961.666,"body":"airways as well, which helps our body's"},{"startTime":3961.666,"endTime":3962.333,"body":"natural defense"},{"startTime":3962.333,"endTime":3964.033,"body":"mechanisms easily flush them away."},{"startTime":3964.466,"endTime":3967.333,"body":"So again, xylitol in our airways reduces"},{"startTime":3967.333,"endTime":3970.166,"body":"the adhesion of many bacteria and"},{"startTime":3970.166,"endTime":3971.466,"body":"viruses, perhaps all of them, we of"},{"startTime":3971.466,"endTime":3972.933,"body":"course don't know that, but many,"},{"startTime":3972.933,"endTime":3976.633,"body":"including strep, SARS-CoV-2, RSV, and"},{"startTime":3976.633,"endTime":3978.666,"body":"makes it more difficult for them to"},{"startTime":3978.666,"endTime":3979.833,"body":"adhere and make us sick."},{"startTime":3979.866,"endTime":3983.233,"body":"Clear is a simple nasal spray that you"},{"startTime":3983.233,"endTime":3984.199,"body":"use morning and evening."},{"startTime":3984.199,"endTime":3985.266,"body":"It takes just three seconds."},{"startTime":3985.533,"endTime":3987.666,"body":"It's fast and easy and decidedly healthy."},{"startTime":3988.3,"endTime":3989.733,"body":"If any of this sounds familiar, perhaps"},{"startTime":3989.733,"endTime":3991.066,"body":"you listen to Bret's conversation with"},{"startTime":3991.066,"endTime":3992.533,"body":"Nathan Jones, founder of Xlear on the"},{"startTime":3992.533,"endTime":3994.866,"body":"Inside Rail in November of 2024, or"},{"startTime":3994.866,"endTime":3996.3,"body":"Bret's conversation with Nate's father,"},{"startTime":3996.566,"endTime":3998.566,"body":"Lon Jones, an osteopath and the inventor"},{"startTime":3998.566,"endTime":4000.666,"body":"of Clear, on how xylitol interacts with"},{"startTime":4000.666,"endTime":4001.566,"body":"respiratory viruses"},{"startTime":4001.566,"endTime":4003.466,"body":"last May, May of 2025."},{"startTime":4003.966,"endTime":4005.733,"body":"We recommend those conversations and we"},{"startTime":4005.733,"endTime":4007.933,"body":"highly recommend Xlear as a daily habit"},{"startTime":4007.933,"endTime":4008.699,"body":"and prophylactic"},{"startTime":4008.699,"endTime":4010.066,"body":"against respiratory illnesses."},{"startTime":4010.833,"endTime":4013.699,"body":"That's Xlear, once again, X-L-E-A-R."},{"startTime":4014.066,"endTime":4015.833,"body":"Get Clear online or at your pharmacy,"},{"startTime":4016.066,"endTime":4016.733,"body":"grocery store, or"},{"startTime":4016.733,"endTime":4017.766,"body":"natural products retailer."},{"startTime":4017.766,"endTime":4018.666,"body":"It's really widely"},{"startTime":4018.666,"endTime":4019.5,"body":"available at this point."},{"startTime":4019.5,"endTime":4020.0,"body":"You should be able to"},{"startTime":4020.0,"endTime":4021.033,"body":"find it just about anywhere."},{"startTime":4021.633,"endTime":4023.566,"body":"And start taking six seconds each day to"},{"startTime":4023.566,"endTime":4025.3,"body":"improve your nasal hygiene and support"},{"startTime":4025.3,"endTime":4026.566,"body":"your respiratory health."},{"startTime":4026.833,"endTime":4027.466,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4027.466,"endTime":4029.166,"body":"And I will just say that the folks at"},{"startTime":4029.166,"endTime":4032.466,"body":"Clear have been extremely supportive of"},{"startTime":4032.466,"endTime":4033.866,"body":"the medical freedom movement."},{"startTime":4033.866,"endTime":4035.3,"body":"They're good people in addition to making"},{"startTime":4035.3,"endTime":4037.066,"body":"an excellent product and they have faced"},{"startTime":4037.066,"endTime":4039.433,"body":"the most ridiculous opposition in"},{"startTime":4039.433,"endTime":4043.266,"body":"including in the middle of the panic over"},{"startTime":4043.266,"endTime":4045.933,"body":"SARS-CoV-2, though they demonstrated that"},{"startTime":4045.933,"endTime":4047.866,"body":"it prevented adhesion and therefore"},{"startTime":4047.866,"endTime":4049.733,"body":"caused you to be much less likely to come"},{"startTime":4049.733,"endTime":4050.833,"body":"down with SARS-CoV-2."},{"startTime":4051.133,"endTime":4053.9,"body":"We're forbidden from saying that publicly"},{"startTime":4053.9,"endTime":4055.366,"body":"by the federal government."},{"startTime":4055.366,"endTime":4058.533,"body":"They have now won their legal challenge."},{"startTime":4058.766,"endTime":4060.666,"body":"And of course, you just heard Heather say"},{"startTime":4060.666,"endTime":4063.066,"body":"this, which they are now allowed to say,"},{"startTime":4063.066,"endTime":4064.3,"body":"but the evidence was there."},{"startTime":4064.333,"endTime":4066.066,"body":"So even at a time when we were turning"},{"startTime":4066.066,"endTime":4068.433,"body":"civilization upside down to prevent the"},{"startTime":4068.433,"endTime":4070.233,"body":"spread of this disease, here you had a"},{"startTime":4070.233,"endTime":4071.699,"body":"product that did prevent the spread of"},{"startTime":4071.699,"endTime":4073.633,"body":"the disease and they were"},{"startTime":4073.633,"endTime":4074.833,"body":"forbidden from saying it."},{"startTime":4075.0,"endTime":4075.933,"body":"An amazing story."},{"startTime":4075.933,"endTime":4076.833,"body":"It really is."},{"startTime":4076.833,"endTime":4078.766,"body":"So again, Clear nasal spray with Xylitol."},{"startTime":4079.9,"endTime":4081.733,"body":"It's a nasal spray just like if any of"},{"startTime":4081.733,"endTime":4083.633,"body":"you've had, I was going to say inhalers."},{"startTime":4083.633,"endTime":4085.033,"body":"That's not how inhalers work, is it?"},{"startTime":4085.633,"endTime":4089.233,"body":"It's a nasal spray just"},{"startTime":4089.233,"endTime":4091.066,"body":"twice a day, morning and night."},{"startTime":4091.533,"endTime":4092.766,"body":"Super simple, super fast."},{"startTime":4093.433,"endTime":4096.466,"body":"And it seriously reduces the likelihood"},{"startTime":4096.466,"endTime":4098.466,"body":"of when you're exposed, you're going to"},{"startTime":4098.466,"endTime":4099.266,"body":"have those viruses or"},{"startTime":4099.266,"endTime":4100.466,"body":"bacteria actually make you sick."},{"startTime":4100.933,"endTime":4101.166,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4101.166,"endTime":4102.699,"body":"And they have a version for preventing"},{"startTime":4102.699,"endTime":4104.066,"body":"you from getting sick and a version."},{"startTime":4104.066,"endTime":4107.433,"body":"If you find yourself becoming sick, a"},{"startTime":4107.433,"endTime":4109.666,"body":"rescue version, I hope they will at some"},{"startTime":4109.666,"endTime":4111.733,"body":"point come out with a version for"},{"startTime":4111.733,"endTime":4115.133,"body":"dyslexics who do not properly understand"},{"startTime":4115.133,"endTime":4116.333,"body":"how you spell this term."},{"startTime":4116.333,"endTime":4118.166,"body":"If they just spelled it with C, I'd know"},{"startTime":4118.166,"endTime":4118.933,"body":"where to look for it."},{"startTime":4118.933,"endTime":4119.133,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":4119.866,"endTime":4120.133,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4122.066,"endTime":4122.5,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":4122.866,"endTime":4123.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4123.466,"endTime":4123.6,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4123.6,"endTime":4125.166,"body":"Our second sponsor this week is ARMRA"},{"startTime":4125.166,"endTime":4126.166,"body":"colostrum, an ancient"},{"startTime":4126.166,"endTime":4127.233,"body":"bioactive whole food."},{"startTime":4127.566,"endTime":4128.933,"body":"Here at Dark Arts, we talk frequently"},{"startTime":4128.933,"endTime":4129.899,"body":"about the fact that we live"},{"startTime":4129.899,"endTime":4131.0,"body":"in an age of hyper novelty."},{"startTime":4131.933,"endTime":4133.333,"body":"Humans are the most adaptable species on"},{"startTime":4133.333,"endTime":4134.966,"body":"the planet and even we can't keep up with"},{"startTime":4134.966,"endTime":4135.866,"body":"the rate of change that we"},{"startTime":4135.866,"endTime":4136.8,"body":"are enacting on ourselves."},{"startTime":4137.266,"endTime":4139.366,"body":"We are bathed in electromagnetic fields,"},{"startTime":4139.366,"endTime":4140.666,"body":"artificial light, seed oils,"},{"startTime":4141.0,"endTime":4142.633,"body":"microplastics, endocrine disruptors in"},{"startTime":4142.633,"endTime":4144.333,"body":"our air, water, food, and textiles."},{"startTime":4144.766,"endTime":4145.8,"body":"And there are myriad other modern"},{"startTime":4145.8,"endTime":4147.566,"body":"stressors like overcrowding and having"},{"startTime":4147.566,"endTime":4149.966,"body":"too little control over choices in life."},{"startTime":4150.633,"endTime":4151.766,"body":"Here's something you can control."},{"startTime":4152.333,"endTime":4153.366,"body":"Strengthen your immune health with a"},{"startTime":4153.366,"endTime":4154.333,"body":"bioactive whole food"},{"startTime":4154.333,"endTime":4155.666,"body":"that is ARMRA colostrum."},{"startTime":4156.166,"endTime":4157.699,"body":"All of this hyper novelty can disrupt the"},{"startTime":4157.699,"endTime":4159.033,"body":"signals that your body relies on"},{"startTime":4159.033,"endTime":4160.3,"body":"negatively impacting gut,"},{"startTime":4160.3,"endTime":4161.433,"body":"immune, and overall health."},{"startTime":4161.899,"endTime":4163.333,"body":"ARMRA colostrum works at the cellular"},{"startTime":4163.333,"endTime":4164.833,"body":"level to bolster your health from within."},{"startTime":4165.566,"endTime":4167.166,"body":"Colostrum is nature's first whole food,"},{"startTime":4167.166,"endTime":4168.633,"body":"helping to strengthen gut and immune"},{"startTime":4168.633,"endTime":4169.933,"body":"health and fuel performance."},{"startTime":4170.8,"endTime":4171.6,"body":"ARMRA colostrum is"},{"startTime":4171.6,"endTime":4172.866,"body":"great added to smoothies."},{"startTime":4172.866,"endTime":4173.8,"body":"I love it with banana and"},{"startTime":4173.8,"endTime":4175.766,"body":"mint and cacao and raw milk."},{"startTime":4176.266,"endTime":4177.466,"body":"Wilk, I was going to say,"},{"startTime":4177.466,"endTime":4178.633,"body":"but I don't eat raw Wilks."},{"startTime":4178.966,"endTime":4181.333,"body":"Oh, that does not sound good."},{"startTime":4181.333,"endTime":4182.766,"body":"No, definitely not put them in smoothies."},{"startTime":4183.733,"endTime":4183.933,"body":"No."},{"startTime":4184.733,"endTime":4186.766,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":4189.233,"endTime":4189.899,"body":"Not going to show up."},{"startTime":4189.899,"endTime":4190.3,"body":"I'm going to tell you."},{"startTime":4190.3,"endTime":4192.8,"body":"It's a great alternative to raw Wilk."},{"startTime":4192.8,"endTime":4193.033,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4193.266,"endTime":4193.533,"body":"Smoothie."},{"startTime":4193.766,"endTime":4193.866,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4193.866,"endTime":4195.133,"body":"But so is just about anything."},{"startTime":4195.366,"endTime":4195.6,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4195.6,"endTime":4195.8,"body":"True."},{"startTime":4195.933,"endTime":4196.766,"body":"So that's a low bar."},{"startTime":4197.066,"endTime":4197.566,"body":"ARMRA colostrum,"},{"startTime":4197.566,"endTime":4198.866,"body":"however, meets a much higher bar."},{"startTime":4199.266,"endTime":4200.933,"body":"Bovine colostrum can support a healthy"},{"startTime":4200.933,"endTime":4202.699,"body":"metabolism and strengthen gut integrity."},{"startTime":4202.699,"endTime":4204.566,"body":"And ARMRA colostrum is a bioactive whole"},{"startTime":4204.566,"endTime":4206.399,"body":"food with over 400 functional nutrients,"},{"startTime":4206.466,"endTime":4208.233,"body":"including, but not limited to,"},{"startTime":4208.466,"endTime":4209.3,"body":"immunoglobulins,"},{"startTime":4209.6,"endTime":4211.866,"body":"antioxidants, minerals, and prebiotics."},{"startTime":4212.666,"endTime":4214.166,"body":"ARMRA colostrum starts with sustainably"},{"startTime":4214.166,"endTime":4216.033,"body":"sourced colostrum for grass-fed cows from"},{"startTime":4216.033,"endTime":4217.466,"body":"their co-op of dairy farms in the United"},{"startTime":4217.466,"endTime":4219.5,"body":"States, and they source only the surplus"},{"startTime":4219.5,"endTime":4221.066,"body":"colostrum after calves are fully fed."},{"startTime":4221.633,"endTime":4223.233,"body":"Unlike most colostrums on the market,"},{"startTime":4223.233,"endTime":4224.566,"body":"which use heat pasteurization that"},{"startTime":4224.566,"endTime":4226.466,"body":"depletes nutrient potency, ARMRA"},{"startTime":4226.466,"endTime":4228.233,"body":"colostrum uses an innovative process that"},{"startTime":4228.233,"endTime":4229.866,"body":"purifies and preserves the integrity of"},{"startTime":4229.866,"endTime":4231.733,"body":"hundreds of bioactive nutrients while"},{"startTime":4231.733,"endTime":4233.733,"body":"removing calcium and fat to guarantee the"},{"startTime":4233.733,"endTime":4235.366,"body":"highest potency and bioavailability."},{"startTime":4236.133,"endTime":4237.699,"body":"The quality control is far above industry"},{"startTime":4237.699,"endTime":4239.333,"body":"standards, including being certified to"},{"startTime":4239.333,"endTime":4241.6,"body":"be, wait for it, glyphosate free."},{"startTime":4243.266,"endTime":4244.266,"body":"And why should that matter?"},{"startTime":4245.533,"endTime":4246.766,"body":"Hang in there, and we'll get to that"},{"startTime":4246.766,"endTime":4248.166,"body":"point once we're done with the ads."},{"startTime":4248.833,"endTime":4250.199,"body":"People who have used ARMRA's colostrum"},{"startTime":4250.199,"endTime":4251.933,"body":"have reported clearer skin, faster and"},{"startTime":4251.933,"endTime":4252.833,"body":"thicker hair growth, and"},{"startTime":4252.833,"endTime":4253.833,"body":"better mental concentration."},{"startTime":4254.1,"endTime":4255.433,"body":"In addition, people using ARMRA's"},{"startTime":4255.433,"endTime":4256.733,"body":"colostrum have noticed a decrease in"},{"startTime":4256.733,"endTime":4258.566,"body":"muscle soreness after exercise, better"},{"startTime":4258.566,"endTime":4259.933,"body":"sleep, and fewer sugar cravings."},{"startTime":4260.466,"endTime":4262.166,"body":"ARMRA colostrum is the real deal."},{"startTime":4262.666,"endTime":4263.633,"body":"We've got a special offer"},{"startTime":4263.633,"endTime":4264.433,"body":"for the DarkHorse audience."},{"startTime":4264.666,"endTime":4265.933,"body":"Receive 30% off your"},{"startTime":4265.933,"endTime":4267.199,"body":"first subscription order."},{"startTime":4267.733,"endTime":4269.766,"body":"Go to ARMRA.com slash DarkHorse or"},{"startTime":4269.766,"endTime":4271.733,"body":"enter DarkHorse to get 30% off your"},{"startTime":4271.733,"endTime":4273.033,"body":"first subscription order."},{"startTime":4273.433,"endTime":4275.366,"body":"That's a-r-m-r-a dot"},{"startTime":4275.366,"endTime":4277.133,"body":"com slash DarkHorse."},{"startTime":4277.766,"endTime":4282.166,"body":"Our final sponsor this week is Caraway."},{"startTime":4282.433,"endTime":4284.466,"body":"They make high quality, non-toxic"},{"startTime":4284.466,"endTime":4286.933,"body":"cookware and bakeware that is excellent"},{"startTime":4286.933,"endTime":4288.366,"body":"for but not limited to"},{"startTime":4288.366,"endTime":4290.333,"body":"making wonderful two egg omelets."},{"startTime":4291.6,"endTime":4292.133,"body":"Maybe you"},{"startTime":4292.133,"endTime":4293.366,"body":"may- You may be the only person in the"},{"startTime":4293.366,"endTime":4294.633,"body":"world who makes two two eggs."},{"startTime":4294.633,"endTime":4294.966,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":4294.966,"endTime":4295.766,"body":"That's why I think of"},{"startTime":4295.766,"endTime":4296.933,"body":"it as a major innovation."},{"startTime":4299.033,"endTime":4301.1,"body":"Maybe you've made a New Year's resolution"},{"startTime":4301.1,"endTime":4303.966,"body":"to eat better or cook more or decrease"},{"startTime":4303.966,"endTime":4305.1,"body":"your exposure to toxins."},{"startTime":4305.3,"endTime":4306.199,"body":"You can do all three at"},{"startTime":4306.199,"endTime":4307.433,"body":"once by cooking with Caraway."},{"startTime":4308.033,"endTime":4310.666,"body":"We're in the cold season now at- Wow,"},{"startTime":4311.066,"endTime":4312.433,"body":"this is showing our"},{"startTime":4312.433,"endTime":4314.166,"body":"northern hemisphere bias."},{"startTime":4314.899,"endTime":4315.5,"body":"We are on the cold-"},{"startTime":4315.5,"endTime":4316.566,"body":"So is the population"},{"startTime":4316.566,"endTime":4317.666,"body":"distribution of the planet."},{"startTime":4319.0,"endTime":4319.666,"body":"Excellent point."},{"startTime":4319.899,"endTime":4320.166,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":4320.366,"endTime":4322.333,"body":"If you're not in the cold season now,"},{"startTime":4322.333,"endTime":4323.366,"body":"that's kind of on you."},{"startTime":4324.366,"endTime":4326.466,"body":"It is a time for warming soups and stews,"},{"startTime":4326.466,"endTime":4328.566,"body":"braised and slow cooked cuts of meat and"},{"startTime":4328.566,"endTime":4329.5,"body":"roasted root vegetables."},{"startTime":4330.066,"endTime":4332.566,"body":"Maybe you're full up on cookies after the"},{"startTime":4332.566,"endTime":4334.433,"body":"holidays, but a nice piece of cake"},{"startTime":4334.433,"endTime":4335.899,"body":"generally hits the spot too."},{"startTime":4336.633,"endTime":4338.466,"body":"With Caraway, all of this deliciousness"},{"startTime":4338.466,"endTime":4340.666,"body":"from roasting to baking, from a quick"},{"startTime":4340.666,"endTime":4343.233,"body":"omelet, two eggs or otherwise, cooked on"},{"startTime":4343.233,"endTime":4344.933,"body":"the stovetop to a long"},{"startTime":4344.933,"endTime":4346.933,"body":"simmered soup is easy to accomplish."},{"startTime":4347.199,"endTime":4348.5,"body":"Caraway's cookware and bakeware is"},{"startTime":4348.5,"endTime":4350.466,"body":"functional, beautiful, and non-toxic."},{"startTime":4350.833,"endTime":4351.899,"body":"It is also easy to clean."},{"startTime":4352.366,"endTime":4353.666,"body":"What more could you want?"},{"startTime":4354.399,"endTime":4356.366,"body":"Modern life is full of hazards, not least"},{"startTime":4356.366,"endTime":4357.266,"body":"the nonstick coatings"},{"startTime":4357.266,"endTime":4358.333,"body":"on cookware and bakeware."},{"startTime":4358.6,"endTime":4360.6,"body":"We threw out all of our Teflon cookware"},{"startTime":4360.6,"endTime":4362.766,"body":"decades ago because Teflon is toxic."},{"startTime":4363.1,"endTime":4365.133,"body":"Yet over 70% of cookware in the United"},{"startTime":4365.133,"endTime":4367.966,"body":"States is made with Teflon and 97% of"},{"startTime":4367.966,"endTime":4369.733,"body":"Americans have toxic chemicals from"},{"startTime":4369.766,"endTime":4371.433,"body":"nonstick cookware in their blood."},{"startTime":4372.066,"endTime":4373.966,"body":"When you cook with Teflon, it only takes"},{"startTime":4373.966,"endTime":4375.5,"body":"two and a half minutes for a pan to get"},{"startTime":4375.5,"endTime":4377.233,"body":"hot enough to start releasing toxins."},{"startTime":4378.033,"endTime":4378.866,"body":"Enter Caraway."},{"startTime":4379.066,"endTime":4380.666,"body":"Caraway kitchenware is crafted with"},{"startTime":4380.666,"endTime":4383.866,"body":"sustainable non-toxic materials like PSC"},{"startTime":4383.866,"endTime":4385.866,"body":"certified birch wood, premium stainless"},{"startTime":4385.866,"endTime":4388.266,"body":"steel, enameled cast iron, and naturally"},{"startTime":4388.266,"endTime":4389.833,"body":"slick ceramic to help you"},{"startTime":4389.833,"endTime":4391.466,"body":"create safer, healthier home."},{"startTime":4391.866,"endTime":4393.966,"body":"Create a safer, healthier home."},{"startTime":4393.966,"endTime":4394.633,"body":"That's what you should do."},{"startTime":4395.3,"endTime":4397.533,"body":"Caraway makes several lines of non-toxic"},{"startTime":4397.6,"endTime":4398.633,"body":"cookware and bakeware."},{"startTime":4399.199,"endTime":4400.866,"body":"Our favorites are their stainless steel"},{"startTime":4400.866,"endTime":4402.466,"body":"line and their enameled cast iron."},{"startTime":4402.866,"endTime":4404.699,"body":"All of Caraway's products are free from"},{"startTime":4404.699,"endTime":4406.433,"body":"forever chemicals and their enameled cast"},{"startTime":4406.433,"endTime":4408.3,"body":"iron is offered in six stylish and"},{"startTime":4408.3,"endTime":4410.266,"body":"beautiful colors including forest blue."},{"startTime":4410.266,"endTime":4412.566,"body":"Actually forest blue does not exist."},{"startTime":4412.766,"endTime":4413.166,"body":"I checked."},{"startTime":4415.633,"endTime":4415.899,"body":"These pop..."},{"startTime":4415.899,"endTime":4417.333,"body":"What you call forest blue looks to the"},{"startTime":4417.333,"endTime":4418.733,"body":"rest of us like car heart orange."},{"startTime":4419.6,"endTime":4421.766,"body":"Yeah, it looks nice though."},{"startTime":4421.766,"endTime":4423.033,"body":"We'll agree to that much."},{"startTime":4423.8,"endTime":4424.666,"body":"It's beautiful."},{"startTime":4425.1,"endTime":4427.066,"body":"Yeah, these pots are strong and highly"},{"startTime":4427.066,"endTime":4428.8,"body":"scratch resistant the last generations"},{"startTime":4428.8,"endTime":4431.433,"body":"and Caraway also offers butcher blocks to"},{"startTime":4431.433,"endTime":4433.766,"body":"cut on, glass lids for non-toxic cooking"},{"startTime":4433.766,"endTime":4436.066,"body":"with a view and a bar set which is"},{"startTime":4436.066,"endTime":4436.933,"body":"crafted from rust"},{"startTime":4436.933,"endTime":4439.1,"body":"resistant 304 stainless steel."},{"startTime":4439.733,"endTime":4441.666,"body":"We're cooking with Caraway and now Zach,"},{"startTime":4441.666,"endTime":4443.0,"body":"our elder son, is two in"},{"startTime":4443.0,"endTime":4444.133,"body":"his first college apartment."},{"startTime":4444.333,"endTime":4446.333,"body":"He says it's amazing which we know to be"},{"startTime":4446.333,"endTime":4448.866,"body":"true and we know that he will be cooking"},{"startTime":4449.133,"endTime":4450.866,"body":"with it for years to come."},{"startTime":4451.266,"endTime":4453.433,"body":"Caraway's cookware set... mmm..."},{"startTime":4454.166,"endTime":4455.5,"body":"English again."},{"startTime":4455.766,"endTime":4457.166,"body":"Gotta remember to stick with English."},{"startTime":4457.433,"endTime":4459.066,"body":"Caraway's cookware set is"},{"startTime":4459.066,"endTime":4461.1,"body":"a favorite for a reason."},{"startTime":4461.1,"endTime":4463.933,"body":"It can save you up to $190 versus buying"},{"startTime":4463.933,"endTime":4464.866,"body":"the items individually."},{"startTime":4465.266,"endTime":4467.933,"body":"Plus if you visit carawayhome.com slash"},{"startTime":4467.933,"endTime":4470.066,"body":"dh10 you can take an"},{"startTime":4470.066,"endTime":4472.033,"body":"additional 10% off your next purchase."},{"startTime":4472.433,"endTime":4474.199,"body":"This deal is exclusive for our listeners"},{"startTime":4474.199,"endTime":4478.399,"body":"so visit carawayhome.com slash dh10 or"},{"startTime":4478.399,"endTime":4480.333,"body":"use the code dh10 at checkout."},{"startTime":4481.1,"endTime":4482.3,"body":"Caraway non-toxic"},{"startTime":4482.3,"endTime":4484.1,"body":"kitchenware made modern."},{"startTime":4485.466,"endTime":4488.1,"body":"In case anyone was concerned that you are"},{"startTime":4488.1,"endTime":4490.233,"body":"limited to two egg omelets with Caraway"},{"startTime":4490.233,"endTime":4492.866,"body":"cookware because there is one skillet we"},{"startTime":4492.866,"endTime":4494.433,"body":"have of theirs that is Bret has"},{"startTime":4494.433,"endTime":4496.1,"body":"discovered perfect for two egg omelets."},{"startTime":4497.199,"endTime":4499.699,"body":"Our younger son Toby whom we sent back to"},{"startTime":4499.699,"endTime":4502.333,"body":"college yesterday..."},{"startTime":4502.733,"endTime":4503.033,"body":"Yeah..."},{"startTime":4504.166,"endTime":4506.3,"body":"was regularly making 10 egg scrambles."},{"startTime":4506.766,"endTime":4508.933,"body":"I don't know um I don't know if people"},{"startTime":4508.933,"endTime":4510.666,"body":"make 10 egg omelets but he was making 10"},{"startTime":4510.666,"endTime":4512.933,"body":"egg scrambles because apparently we are"},{"startTime":4512.933,"endTime":4514.366,"body":"told it is bulking season."},{"startTime":4515.199,"endTime":4517.233,"body":"When he comes home I'm"},{"startTime":4517.233,"endTime":4518.366,"body":"going to teach him..."},{"startTime":4518.566,"endTime":4519.166,"body":"He was just home you"},{"startTime":4519.166,"endTime":4520.199,"body":"know for like three weeks."},{"startTime":4520.433,"endTime":4524.5,"body":"I know but given some time to reflect you"},{"startTime":4524.5,"endTime":4527.5,"body":"know hours I think when he comes home I"},{"startTime":4527.5,"endTime":4531.066,"body":"should try to a) figure out whether a 10"},{"startTime":4531.066,"endTime":4533.433,"body":"egg omelet is possible and b)"},{"startTime":4533.433,"endTime":4534.633,"body":"I think he actually prefers the scramble."},{"startTime":4535.699,"endTime":4537.833,"body":"What does that matter if it's possible it"},{"startTime":4537.833,"endTime":4539.233,"body":"seems like it is a it"},{"startTime":4539.233,"endTime":4540.366,"body":"is a bar worth setting."},{"startTime":4541.666,"endTime":4543.066,"body":"Not if it's not preferred."},{"startTime":4544.266,"endTime":4545.233,"body":"I don't see what preferred"},{"startTime":4545.233,"endTime":4546.399,"body":"has to do with it frankly but..."},{"startTime":4547.533,"endTime":4549.666,"body":"Anyway use Caraway to make two egg"},{"startTime":4549.666,"endTime":4550.6,"body":"omelets or 10 egg"},{"startTime":4550.6,"endTime":4551.866,"body":"scrambles and anything in between."},{"startTime":4552.166,"endTime":4552.8,"body":"There you go."},{"startTime":4552.8,"endTime":4554.266,"body":"Yeah there you go."},{"startTime":4554.266,"endTime":4556.8,"body":"Uh shall we start"},{"startTime":4556.8,"endTime":4558.0,"body":"with the glyphosate news?"},{"startTime":4558.366,"endTime":4559.0,"body":"Yeah let's do that."},{"startTime":4559.166,"endTime":4559.933,"body":"Yeah let's do that."},{"startTime":4560.566,"endTime":4563.833,"body":"Um okay so actually I did not have queued"},{"startTime":4563.833,"endTime":4567.266,"body":"up here but uh the New York Times um"},{"startTime":4567.266,"endTime":4568.533,"body":"we're gonna we're gonna show the papers"},{"startTime":4568.733,"endTime":4572.633,"body":"um but uh of all places the New York"},{"startTime":4572.633,"endTime":4578.1,"body":"Times is covering and published let's see"},{"startTime":4578.1,"endTime":4579.633,"body":"when is this this is uh"},{"startTime":4579.633,"endTime":4581.233,"body":"January 2nd of this year."},{"startTime":4582.3,"endTime":4584.0,"body":"A study is retracted renewing concerns"},{"startTime":4584.0,"endTime":4585.366,"body":"about the weed killer Roundup."},{"startTime":4586.433,"endTime":4587.966,"body":"Problems with a 25 year old landmark"},{"startTime":4587.966,"endTime":4589.766,"body":"paper on the safety of Roundup's active"},{"startTime":4589.766,"endTime":4591.966,"body":"ingredient glyphosate have led to calls"},{"startTime":4591.966,"endTime":4593.366,"body":"for the EPA to reassess"},{"startTime":4593.366,"endTime":4595.233,"body":"the widely used chemical."},{"startTime":4595.966,"endTime":4600.633,"body":"So as it turns out they're the the main"},{"startTime":4600.633,"endTime":4603.5,"body":"paper that has been used to point out uh"},{"startTime":4603.5,"endTime":4605.666,"body":"and you know direct all naysayers and"},{"startTime":4605.666,"endTime":4608.133,"body":"skeptics to the obvious safety of"},{"startTime":4608.133,"endTime":4612.0,"body":"glyphosate is this one from 2020 and uh"},{"startTime":4612.0,"endTime":4613.433,"body":"if I can have my screen back for a moment"},{"startTime":4613.433,"endTime":4618.666,"body":"so I can show the uh hold on."},{"startTime":4618.966,"endTime":4621.466,"body":"The obvious safety concerns or lack of"},{"startTime":4621.466,"endTime":4622.3,"body":"safety of glyphosate."},{"startTime":4623.5,"endTime":4624.399,"body":"Anyway just skip to work."},{"startTime":4625.566,"endTime":4628.233,"body":"Um okay so here is the the paper in"},{"startTime":4628.233,"endTime":4631.533,"body":"question published in 2000 in regulatory"},{"startTime":4631.533,"endTime":4633.399,"body":"toxicology and pharmacology."},{"startTime":4633.399,"endTime":4635.166,"body":"At this point I did not have it before."},{"startTime":4635.166,"endTime":4636.666,"body":"I kind of thought I had but I didn't so"},{"startTime":4636.666,"endTime":4638.333,"body":"it you can't get it I'm sure you can if"},{"startTime":4638.333,"endTime":4640.966,"body":"you if you work hard and use um way back"},{"startTime":4640.966,"endTime":4642.633,"body":"machine or something but at this point"},{"startTime":4642.633,"endTime":4646.366,"body":"all standardly available copies of the"},{"startTime":4646.366,"endTime":4649.966,"body":"paper have retracted across every single"},{"startTime":4649.966,"endTime":4652.466,"body":"page which is kind of remarkable um that"},{"startTime":4652.466,"endTime":4653.966,"body":"the you know these people are serious."},{"startTime":4654.3,"endTime":4657.366,"body":"The paper was called was titled from 2020"},{"startTime":4657.366,"endTime":4659.933,"body":"from 2000 safety evaluation and risk"},{"startTime":4659.933,"endTime":4661.633,"body":"assessment the herbicide Roundup and its"},{"startTime":4661.633,"endTime":4663.833,"body":"active ingredient glyphosate for humans."},{"startTime":4664.433,"endTime":4668.666,"body":"Let's just share the uh abstract with the"},{"startTime":4668.666,"endTime":4672.566,"body":"understanding again uh that this work is"},{"startTime":4672.566,"endTime":4674.5,"body":"no longer being vouched for by the"},{"startTime":4674.5,"endTime":4676.966,"body":"journal it's published in nor has any"},{"startTime":4676.966,"endTime":4679.8,"body":"other professional society or journal"},{"startTime":4679.8,"endTime":4681.933,"body":"stepped in and said well actually we're"},{"startTime":4681.933,"endTime":4683.633,"body":"gonna go ahead and um you know unretrite"},{"startTime":4683.633,"endTime":4684.533,"body":"that paper now that that's"},{"startTime":4684.533,"endTime":4686.433,"body":"exactly how it works but um."},{"startTime":4686.433,"endTime":4688.533,"body":"I have to say retraction is a pretty"},{"startTime":4688.566,"endTime":4691.0,"body":"extreme step lots of papers that don't"},{"startTime":4691.0,"endTime":4693.466,"body":"stand up to scrutiny never get retracted"},{"startTime":4693.466,"endTime":4695.766,"body":"exactly just the literature builds on it"},{"startTime":4695.766,"endTime":4698.366,"body":"and yep that that's a natural process."},{"startTime":4698.366,"endTime":4699.566,"body":"Retracted is pretty serious."},{"startTime":4700.166,"endTime":4701.533,"body":"It's very serious and so we're just going"},{"startTime":4701.533,"endTime":4703.466,"body":"to share this um the abstract from this"},{"startTime":4703.466,"endTime":4706.733,"body":"paper from 25 years ago and then then"},{"startTime":4706.733,"endTime":4710.033,"body":"share the retraction notice itself um"},{"startTime":4710.033,"endTime":4711.666,"body":"because there are several reasons for the"},{"startTime":4711.666,"endTime":4714.033,"body":"retraction in this case uh all of which"},{"startTime":4714.033,"endTime":4716.866,"body":"are interesting and none of which strike"},{"startTime":4716.866,"endTime":4720.433,"body":"me as uh that they should be particularly"},{"startTime":4720.433,"endTime":4722.833,"body":"new or surprising at least the DarkHorse"},{"startTime":4722.833,"endTime":4725.433,"body":"audience because this this story sort of"},{"startTime":4725.433,"endTime":4727.733,"body":"has something for everyone with regard to"},{"startTime":4727.733,"endTime":4729.833,"body":"uh what is wrong with science today."},{"startTime":4730.699,"endTime":4733.633,"body":"Yes in fact um the pesticide story is"},{"startTime":4733.633,"endTime":4736.1,"body":"like right next door to the pharma story"},{"startTime":4736.1,"endTime":4737.166,"body":"and they are connected"},{"startTime":4737.266,"endTime":4738.633,"body":"through Bobby Kennedy."},{"startTime":4738.933,"endTime":4739.133,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4739.866,"endTime":4744.333,"body":"So okay so uh again abstract of this now"},{"startTime":4744.333,"endTime":4748.366,"body":"retracted paper from uh 26 years ago on"},{"startTime":4748.366,"endTime":4752.1,"body":"that purported to uh conclude that"},{"startTime":4752.1,"endTime":4753.766,"body":"glyphosate was safe."},{"startTime":4754.933,"endTime":4755.866,"body":"Effective I don't know"},{"startTime":4755.866,"endTime":4757.133,"body":"safe for human health."},{"startTime":4757.566,"endTime":4759.033,"body":"Reviews on the safety of glyphosate and"},{"startTime":4759.033,"endTime":4760.166,"body":"Roundup herbicide that have been"},{"startTime":4760.166,"endTime":4761.833,"body":"conducted by several regulatory agencies"},{"startTime":4761.833,"endTime":4763.566,"body":"and scientific institutions worldwide"},{"startTime":4763.566,"endTime":4765.399,"body":"have concluded that there is no"},{"startTime":4765.399,"endTime":4767.266,"body":"indication of any human health concern."},{"startTime":4767.633,"endTime":4769.533,"body":"Nevertheless questions regarding their"},{"startTime":4769.533,"endTime":4771.033,"body":"safety are periodically raised."},{"startTime":4771.333,"endTime":4773.066,"body":"This review was undertaken to produce a"},{"startTime":4773.066,"endTime":4774.533,"body":"current and comprehensive safety"},{"startTime":4774.533,"endTime":4775.466,"body":"evaluation and risk"},{"startTime":4775.466,"endTime":4776.433,"body":"assessment for humans."},{"startTime":4776.866,"endTime":4778.166,"body":"It includes assessments of glyphosate,"},{"startTime":4778.866,"endTime":4781.566,"body":"its major breakdown product, AMPA, its"},{"startTime":4781.566,"endTime":4785.933,"body":"Roundup formulations and the I don't even"},{"startTime":4785.933,"endTime":4788.333,"body":"know and the something surfactant used in"},{"startTime":4788.333,"endTime":4789.733,"body":"Roundup formulations worldwide."},{"startTime":4790.333,"endTime":4791.866,"body":"The studies evaluated in this review"},{"startTime":4791.933,"endTime":4795.466,"body":"included the performed this is going to"},{"startTime":4795.466,"endTime":4799.233,"body":"be tough to read um included those"},{"startTime":4799.233,"endTime":4800.833,"body":"performed for regulatory purposes"},{"startTime":4800.833,"endTime":4802.766,"body":"something something something I'm going"},{"startTime":4802.766,"endTime":4804.066,"body":"to just skip a bunch of this because it's"},{"startTime":4804.066,"endTime":4805.266,"body":"actually very hard to read with"},{"startTime":4805.266,"endTime":4807.166,"body":"attraction um listed"},{"startTime":4807.166,"endTime":4809.333,"body":"uh written through it."},{"startTime":4809.766,"endTime":4811.333,"body":"Multiple lifetime feeding studies have"},{"startTime":4811.333,"endTime":4813.233,"body":"failed to demonstrate any tumorogenic"},{"startTime":4813.233,"endTime":4814.233,"body":"potential for glyphosate."},{"startTime":4814.633,"endTime":4815.833,"body":"Accordingly it was concluded that"},{"startTime":4815.833,"endTime":4817.466,"body":"glyphosate is non-carcinogenic."},{"startTime":4818.0,"endTime":4820.233,"body":"Glyphosate, AMPA and PoEA were not"},{"startTime":4820.233,"endTime":4821.933,"body":"tereogenic or developmentally toxic."},{"startTime":4822.333,"endTime":4824.333,"body":"There were no effects on fertility or"},{"startTime":4824.333,"endTime":4827.933,"body":"reproductive parameters in something"},{"startTime":4827.933,"endTime":4831.033,"body":"generation reproduction studies on and on"},{"startTime":4831.033,"endTime":4832.933,"body":"and on again really hard to read exactly"},{"startTime":4832.933,"endTime":4834.433,"body":"what is being said here."},{"startTime":4835.666,"endTime":4838.166,"body":"Skipping to the end of the abstract acute"},{"startTime":4838.166,"endTime":4839.966,"body":"risks were assessed by comparison of oral"},{"startTime":4839.966,"endTime":4841.666,"body":"LD50 values to estimated"},{"startTime":4841.666,"endTime":4843.233,"body":"maximum acute human exposure."},{"startTime":4843.566,"endTime":4845.3,"body":"It was concluded that under present and"},{"startTime":4845.3,"endTime":4847.266,"body":"expected conditions of use Roundup"},{"startTime":4847.266,"endTime":4848.266,"body":"herbicide does not pose"},{"startTime":4848.266,"endTime":4850.133,"body":"a health risk to humans."},{"startTime":4852.199,"endTime":4854.933,"body":"I will the only thing else I'm going to"},{"startTime":4854.933,"endTime":4856.533,"body":"share from the paper itself again"},{"startTime":4856.533,"endTime":4860.133,"body":"retracted published in 2000 along the"},{"startTime":4860.133,"endTime":4862.666,"body":"sort of the gold standard for um what"},{"startTime":4862.666,"endTime":4864.733,"body":"people point to and they want to assure"},{"startTime":4864.733,"endTime":4865.8,"body":"you that glyphosate is safe."},{"startTime":4867.733,"endTime":4869.133,"body":"The herbicidal properties of glyphosate"},{"startTime":4869.133,"endTime":4870.166,"body":"were discovered by Monsanto"},{"startTime":4870.166,"endTime":4871.733,"body":"company scientists in 1970."},{"startTime":4872.033,"endTime":4874.6,"body":"It is a non-selective herbicide that"},{"startTime":4874.6,"endTime":4876.166,"body":"inhibits plant growth through"},{"startTime":4876.166,"endTime":4877.3,"body":"interference with the production of"},{"startTime":4877.3,"endTime":4879.566,"body":"essential aromatic amino acids by"},{"startTime":4879.566,"endTime":4883.199,"body":"inhibition of the enzyme enolpyruval"},{"startTime":4883.199,"endTime":4886.066,"body":"shicamate phosphate synthase which is"},{"startTime":4886.066,"endTime":4887.566,"body":"responsible for the biosynthesis of"},{"startTime":4887.566,"endTime":4889.5,"body":"chorismate and intermediate and"},{"startTime":4889.5,"endTime":4891.066,"body":"phenylalanine tyrosine"},{"startTime":4891.066,"endTime":4892.566,"body":"and tryptophan biosynthesis."},{"startTime":4893.199,"endTime":4895.3,"body":"This pathway for biosynthesis of aromatic"},{"startTime":4895.3,"endTime":4897.399,"body":"amino acids is not shared by members of"},{"startTime":4897.399,"endTime":4899.566,"body":"the animal kingdom making blockage of"},{"startTime":4899.566,"endTime":4901.166,"body":"this pathway an effective inhibitor of"},{"startTime":4901.166,"endTime":4901.766,"body":"amino acid"},{"startTime":4901.766,"endTime":4904.166,"body":"biosynthesis exclusive to plants."},{"startTime":4905.266,"endTime":4907.266,"body":"So right there at the very beginning of"},{"startTime":4907.266,"endTime":4908.766,"body":"the introduction we have one of the"},{"startTime":4908.766,"endTime":4911.133,"body":"primary claims that is made often about"},{"startTime":4911.133,"endTime":4913.8,"body":"glyphosate and about other herbicides"},{"startTime":4913.8,"endTime":4916.333,"body":"said this only works on plants we assure"},{"startTime":4916.333,"endTime":4918.133,"body":"you or in some cases with some herbicides"},{"startTime":4918.133,"endTime":4919.699,"body":"this only works on monocots right this"},{"startTime":4919.699,"endTime":4922.466,"body":"only can work on grasses or the opposite"},{"startTime":4922.466,"endTime":4923.899,"body":"on dicots and not monocots."},{"startTime":4924.366,"endTime":4926.233,"body":"So there's often these claims like given"},{"startTime":4926.233,"endTime":4928.566,"body":"the particular way that the molecular"},{"startTime":4928.566,"endTime":4931.733,"body":"mechanism of action is and given that we"},{"startTime":4931.733,"endTime":4933.266,"body":"know we're very very sure that this"},{"startTime":4933.266,"endTime":4935.3,"body":"doesn't exist in pick your clade in this"},{"startTime":4935.3,"endTime":4937.466,"body":"case animals therefore it's totally safe"},{"startTime":4937.466,"endTime":4942.066,"body":"in animals and it's true that we believe"},{"startTime":4942.066,"endTime":4944.899,"body":"that it is true that this pathway for"},{"startTime":4944.899,"endTime":4947.3,"body":"biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids is"},{"startTime":4947.3,"endTime":4949.266,"body":"not shared by us for one thing we know"},{"startTime":4949.266,"endTime":4953.033,"body":"for instance that tryptophan is what we"},{"startTime":4953.033,"endTime":4955.133,"body":"call an essential amino acid essential"},{"startTime":4955.133,"endTime":4958.566,"body":"amino acid being a list of amino acids"},{"startTime":4958.566,"endTime":4960.733,"body":"that we cannot synthesize ourselves and"},{"startTime":4960.733,"endTime":4962.633,"body":"therefore they are essential in our diet."},{"startTime":4963.633,"endTime":4968.733,"body":"So that much is true but like the most"},{"startTime":4968.733,"endTime":4972.133,"body":"obvious problem that that pops out to me"},{"startTime":4972.133,"endTime":4974.399,"body":"from this and I haven't spent a lot of"},{"startTime":4974.399,"endTime":4975.866,"body":"time thinking about this paper having"},{"startTime":4975.866,"endTime":4977.766,"body":"just been made aware of it you know a"},{"startTime":4977.766,"endTime":4980.8,"body":"couple days ago is that we're not just"},{"startTime":4980.8,"endTime":4984.5,"body":"made of us we contain multitudes we have"},{"startTime":4984.866,"endTime":4987.966,"body":"many many in fact you know we have we"},{"startTime":4987.966,"endTime":4990.333,"body":"have so many species of an abundance of"},{"startTime":4990.333,"endTime":4993.733,"body":"individuals of bacteria mostly you know"},{"startTime":4993.733,"endTime":4995.166,"body":"the good bacteria that you will always"},{"startTime":4995.166,"endTime":4997.466,"body":"hear about in our guts and throughout our"},{"startTime":4997.466,"endTime":5002.233,"body":"bodies and I don't I have not found any"},{"startTime":5002.233,"endTime":5004.966,"body":"evidence that we are confident that those"},{"startTime":5004.966,"endTime":5007.533,"body":"bacteria don't have their pathways"},{"startTime":5007.533,"endTime":5010.5,"body":"impaired by glyphosate and in fact I find"},{"startTime":5010.5,"endTime":5012.3,"body":"some evidence that in fact they do."},{"startTime":5012.833,"endTime":5016.366,"body":"So the human body itself may actually be"},{"startTime":5016.366,"endTime":5018.933,"body":"able to do what it needs to do even in"},{"startTime":5018.933,"endTime":5022.0,"body":"the presence of this ridiculous herbicide"},{"startTime":5022.0,"endTime":5025.033,"body":"but given that we aren't alone like none"},{"startTime":5025.033,"endTime":5027.433,"body":"of us is simply an individual that is"},{"startTime":5027.433,"endTime":5029.366,"body":"only made up of mammal we're also made up"},{"startTime":5029.366,"endTime":5031.8,"body":"of all these bacteria and if it's"},{"startTime":5031.8,"endTime":5033.1,"body":"impairing the ability of our good"},{"startTime":5033.1,"endTime":5034.966,"body":"bacteria to do what they do then it's"},{"startTime":5034.966,"endTime":5037.233,"body":"impairing our ability to do what we do."},{"startTime":5038.399,"endTime":5041.766,"body":"So we sometimes talk about the textbook"},{"startTime":5041.766,"endTime":5045.033,"body":"version of something a textbook a literal"},{"startTime":5045.033,"endTime":5049.866,"body":"textbook generally presents a simplified"},{"startTime":5049.866,"endTime":5054.766,"body":"version of biological function and the"},{"startTime":5054.766,"endTime":5056.866,"body":"problem is often that the thing that you"},{"startTime":5056.866,"endTime":5058.366,"body":"need to be concerned about isn't"},{"startTime":5058.366,"endTime":5059.366,"body":"described in the textbook."},{"startTime":5059.666,"endTime":5061.033,"body":"If you look at what the textbook says"},{"startTime":5061.033,"endTime":5063.366,"body":"about the way vaccines work it seems"},{"startTime":5063.366,"endTime":5065.633,"body":"extremely elegant if you understand that"},{"startTime":5065.633,"endTime":5067.666,"body":"there's a manufacturing process that"},{"startTime":5067.666,"endTime":5069.333,"body":"vaccines don't work the way the Jenner"},{"startTime":5069.333,"endTime":5071.766,"body":"vaccine did and that therefore other"},{"startTime":5071.766,"endTime":5073.733,"body":"things have been introduced to compensate"},{"startTime":5073.733,"endTime":5075.933,"body":"for the defects of modern vaccines you"},{"startTime":5075.933,"endTime":5077.166,"body":"understand that the story that the"},{"startTime":5077.166,"endTime":5078.966,"body":"textbook tells isn't right and this"},{"startTime":5078.966,"endTime":5080.633,"body":"strikes me as exactly like this."},{"startTime":5081.166,"endTime":5084.666,"body":"I can imagine as if I was a bit more"},{"startTime":5084.733,"endTime":5086.966,"body":"naive than I am and I imagine I'm"},{"startTime":5086.966,"endTime":5088.966,"body":"probably naive about a bunch still but"},{"startTime":5088.966,"endTime":5091.933,"body":"there was a bit more naive than I am I"},{"startTime":5091.933,"endTime":5094.066,"body":"can imagine myself confidently saying"},{"startTime":5094.066,"endTime":5097.966,"body":"well this is an elegant pesticide because"},{"startTime":5098.033,"endTime":5100.466,"body":"what it does is it disrupts a pathway"},{"startTime":5100.466,"endTime":5102.666,"body":"that's unique to plants we aren't plants"},{"startTime":5102.666,"endTime":5105.133,"body":"and therefore you should expect this"},{"startTime":5105.133,"endTime":5108.266,"body":"pesticide to be effective when trying to"},{"startTime":5108.266,"endTime":5110.933,"body":"control things in one kingdom without"},{"startTime":5110.933,"endTime":5112.1,"body":"disrupting things in another."},{"startTime":5112.633,"endTime":5116.433,"body":"Now the track record of glyphosate is so"},{"startTime":5116.433,"endTime":5118.633,"body":"appalling with respect to disrupting"},{"startTime":5118.633,"endTime":5123.1,"body":"animals and environments that I know the"},{"startTime":5123.1,"endTime":5125.766,"body":"textbook explanation is dead on arrival"},{"startTime":5125.766,"endTime":5128.066,"body":"but the point is you can see how this"},{"startTime":5128.066,"endTime":5132.033,"body":"paper is structured to lead you to a what"},{"startTime":5132.033,"endTime":5135.0,"body":"would be a comforting assessment if it"},{"startTime":5135.0,"endTime":5136.933,"body":"were isolated from all of the things that"},{"startTime":5136.933,"endTime":5138.199,"body":"aren't being said here."},{"startTime":5138.6,"endTime":5146.466,"body":"Yes and in 1970 when glyphosate was"},{"startTime":5146.466,"endTime":5149.366,"body":"discovered invented or when its"},{"startTime":5150.0,"endTime":5152.533,"body":"herbicidal qualities were discovered I"},{"startTime":5152.533,"endTime":5154.066,"body":"think it had already been invented before"},{"startTime":5154.066,"endTime":5157.666,"body":"then we did not have the kind of"},{"startTime":5157.666,"endTime":5160.233,"body":"knowledge that we have now about the you"},{"startTime":5160.233,"endTime":5162.166,"body":"know the fact that all mammals contain"},{"startTime":5162.166,"endTime":5164.133,"body":"multitudes that we in fact are"},{"startTime":5164.133,"endTime":5166.566,"body":"conglomerations of individuals that are"},{"startTime":5166.733,"endTime":5168.6,"body":"that include many many species of an"},{"startTime":5168.6,"endTime":5171.566,"body":"abundance of individuals of bacteria but"},{"startTime":5171.566,"endTime":5175.0,"body":"that doesn't make those people back then"},{"startTime":5175.0,"endTime":5177.833,"body":"any less culpable because the idea that"},{"startTime":5177.833,"endTime":5180.533,"body":"at any moment we know everything we know"},{"startTime":5180.533,"endTime":5181.833,"body":"everything we need to know we know"},{"startTime":5181.833,"endTime":5183.666,"body":"everything that there is to know can"},{"startTime":5183.666,"endTime":5186.433,"body":"never be true so we always we always have"},{"startTime":5186.433,"endTime":5190.033,"body":"to assume that there are ways that things"},{"startTime":5190.033,"endTime":5193.5,"body":"can act in complex systems that we have"},{"startTime":5193.5,"endTime":5196.966,"body":"not yet considered therefore claims that"},{"startTime":5196.966,"endTime":5200.233,"body":"are meant to mollify to calm to sedate to"},{"startTime":5200.233,"endTime":5202.933,"body":"to make you feel like this is just fine"},{"startTime":5202.933,"endTime":5205.366,"body":"don't worry about it are very often"},{"startTime":5205.366,"endTime":5208.266,"body":"covers for a hubris"},{"startTime":5208.266,"endTime":5209.666,"body":"that is utterly unworked."},{"startTime":5210.066,"endTime":5212.533,"body":"Yes and and we've discussed many times"},{"startTime":5212.533,"endTime":5214.399,"body":"the distinction between highly"},{"startTime":5214.399,"endTime":5216.6,"body":"complicated systems and complex systems"},{"startTime":5216.6,"endTime":5219.866,"body":"and so the overarching problem here is"},{"startTime":5219.866,"endTime":5223.666,"body":"that any time you're taking let's say a"},{"startTime":5223.666,"endTime":5226.666,"body":"pesticide introducing it to a food crop"},{"startTime":5226.666,"endTime":5230.033,"body":"you are assuming that you understand all"},{"startTime":5230.033,"endTime":5232.133,"body":"of the things that might be disrupted"},{"startTime":5232.133,"endTime":5234.233,"body":"when the chances that you do are"},{"startTime":5234.566,"endTime":5239.933,"body":"effectively sorry effectively zero so you"},{"startTime":5239.933,"endTime":5245.699,"body":"know the what one would need to do is if"},{"startTime":5245.699,"endTime":5247.3,"body":"you're going to introduce such a thing"},{"startTime":5247.3,"endTime":5250.333,"body":"you would need massive work on the tail"},{"startTime":5250.333,"endTime":5253.933,"body":"end tracking the harms and most important"},{"startTime":5253.933,"endTime":5256.133,"body":"of all that work has to be done by people"},{"startTime":5256.133,"endTime":5258.1,"body":"who don't have a conflict of interest so"},{"startTime":5258.1,"endTime":5259.666,"body":"they can compare the well-being of"},{"startTime":5259.666,"endTime":5262.033,"body":"populations that are exposed to this to"},{"startTime":5262.033,"endTime":5265.066,"body":"populations that aren't and say well was"},{"startTime":5265.066,"endTime":5267.333,"body":"there a health effect rather than you"},{"startTime":5267.333,"endTime":5270.566,"body":"know corporate goons who are going to"},{"startTime":5270.566,"endTime":5272.066,"body":"arrive at a preordained conclusion"},{"startTime":5272.066,"endTime":5276.166,"body":"because it's how they pay their mortgage."},{"startTime":5276.633,"endTime":5278.566,"body":"Yes so speaking of conflict of interest"},{"startTime":5278.566,"endTime":5280.766,"body":"let's get to why this paper was attracted"},{"startTime":5280.766,"endTime":5283.033,"body":"first off let's just take a look at"},{"startTime":5283.033,"endTime":5285.933,"body":"authorship published in 2000 with three"},{"startTime":5285.933,"endTime":5287.899,"body":"authors which is a relatively small list"},{"startTime":5287.899,"endTime":5290.533,"body":"of authors for a molecular paper although"},{"startTime":5290.533,"endTime":5293.833,"body":"it's a preview paper so such papers often"},{"startTime":5293.833,"endTime":5297.3,"body":"have fewer authors listed at New York"},{"startTime":5297.3,"endTime":5300.3,"body":"Medical College University of I don't"},{"startTime":5300.3,"endTime":5301.666,"body":"know if that's going to be Utrecht maybe"},{"startTime":5301.666,"endTime":5305.766,"body":"because it's retracted yeah Utrecht and"},{"startTime":5305.766,"endTime":5308.266,"body":"then Kentuck's Health Sciences"},{"startTime":5308.333,"endTime":5310.966,"body":"International in Canada so we've got"},{"startTime":5310.966,"endTime":5314.633,"body":"representatives three scientists out of"},{"startTime":5314.633,"endTime":5315.866,"body":"the United States out of the Netherlands"},{"startTime":5315.866,"endTime":5320.133,"body":"and Canada authoring this paper and back"},{"startTime":5320.133,"endTime":5323.3,"body":"in 2000 and then we have fast forward to"},{"startTime":5323.3,"endTime":5326.566,"body":"the retraction notice published just now"},{"startTime":5326.566,"endTime":5328.366,"body":"in again regulatory"},{"startTime":5328.366,"endTime":5330.0,"body":"toxicology and pharmacology"},{"startTime":5331.666,"endTime":5333.666,"body":"for for the paper that I was just showing"},{"startTime":5333.666,"endTime":5336.133,"body":"you with that same authorship."},{"startTime":5337.166,"endTime":5341.5,"body":"So why let's just read some of their"},{"startTime":5341.5,"endTime":5343.1,"body":"reasons for why this article has been"},{"startTime":5343.1,"endTime":5344.733,"body":"retracted at the request of handling"},{"startTime":5344.733,"endTime":5346.766,"body":"co-editor and chief professor Martin"},{"startTime":5346.766,"endTime":5350.333,"body":"Vandenberg Denberg excuse me concerns"},{"startTime":5350.333,"endTime":5351.866,"body":"were raised regarding the authorship of"},{"startTime":5351.866,"endTime":5353.566,"body":"this paper validity of the research"},{"startTime":5353.566,"endTime":5354.766,"body":"findings in the context of"},{"startTime":5354.766,"endTime":5356.666,"body":"misrepresentation of the contributions by"},{"startTime":5356.666,"endTime":5358.566,"body":"the authors and the study sponsor and"},{"startTime":5358.566,"endTime":5360.1,"body":"potential conflicts of interest of the"},{"startTime":5360.1,"endTime":5362.733,"body":"authors I the handling co-editor and"},{"startTime":5362.733,"endTime":5364.333,"body":"chief of regulatory toxicology and"},{"startTime":5364.333,"endTime":5366.333,"body":"pharmacology reached out to the sole"},{"startTime":5366.333,"endTime":5368.433,"body":"surviving author Gary M Williams and"},{"startTime":5368.433,"endTime":5369.666,"body":"sought explanation of the various"},{"startTime":5369.666,"endTime":5371.266,"body":"concerns which have been listed in detail"},{"startTime":5371.266,"endTime":5373.533,"body":"below we did not receive any response"},{"startTime":5373.533,"endTime":5375.533,"body":"from professor Williams so two of the"},{"startTime":5375.533,"endTime":5377.8,"body":"three authors are dead and one of them is"},{"startTime":5377.8,"endTime":5380.866,"body":"not responding to requests for"},{"startTime":5380.866,"endTime":5383.766,"body":"explanation of a paper which presumably"},{"startTime":5383.766,"endTime":5386.866,"body":"helped make his reputation because it is"},{"startTime":5386.866,"endTime":5388.866,"body":"the paper that for 25 years has been"},{"startTime":5388.866,"endTime":5390.733,"body":"pointed to as evidence that glyphosate is"},{"startTime":5390.733,"endTime":5393.666,"body":"safe hence this article is formally"},{"startTime":5393.666,"endTime":5395.933,"body":"retracted from the journal this decision"},{"startTime":5395.933,"endTime":5397.466,"body":"has been made after careful consideration"},{"startTime":5397.466,"endTime":5400.133,"body":"etc etc subtraction is based on several"},{"startTime":5400.133,"endTime":5401.533,"body":"critical issues that are considered to"},{"startTime":5401.533,"endTime":5403.3,"body":"undermine the academic integrity of this"},{"startTime":5403.3,"endTime":5404.733,"body":"article and its conclusions one"},{"startTime":5404.733,"endTime":5406.633,"body":"carcinogenicity and"},{"startTime":5406.633,"endTime":5407.966,"body":"genotoxicity assessments"},{"startTime":5409.033,"endTime":5410.633,"body":"the article's conclusions regarding the"},{"startTime":5410.633,"endTime":5412.533,"body":"carcinogenicity of glyphosate are solely"},{"startTime":5412.533,"endTime":5414.633,"body":"based on unpublished studies from"},{"startTime":5414.633,"endTime":5417.166,"body":"Monsanto which have failed to demonstrate"},{"startTime":5417.166,"endTime":5419.366,"body":"tumorigenic potential the handling"},{"startTime":5419.366,"endTime":5421.133,"body":"co-editor and chief also became aware"},{"startTime":5421.133,"endTime":5422.333,"body":"that by the time of writing of this"},{"startTime":5422.333,"endTime":5424.233,"body":"article in the journal the authors did"},{"startTime":5424.233,"endTime":5426.433,"body":"not include multiple other long-term"},{"startTime":5426.433,"endTime":5428.166,"body":"chronic toxicity and carcinogenicity"},{"startTime":5428.233,"endTime":5430.266,"body":"studies that were already done at the"},{"startTime":5430.266,"endTime":5432.766,"body":"time of writing the review in 1999 pause"},{"startTime":5432.766,"endTime":5435.3,"body":"for a second that 2000 paper that has now"},{"startTime":5435.3,"endTime":5437.533,"body":"been retracted was explicitly a review"},{"startTime":5437.533,"endTime":5440.1,"body":"article it did not seek it did not"},{"startTime":5440.1,"endTime":5443.866,"body":"undertake any new experiments it did not"},{"startTime":5443.866,"endTime":5445.8,"body":"seek therefore to generate any new data"},{"startTime":5445.8,"endTime":5448.399,"body":"it was explicitly a review of existing"},{"startTime":5448.399,"endTime":5450.166,"body":"data so that the public could"},{"startTime":5450.166,"endTime":5451.566,"body":"the public and the scientific"},{"startTime":5452.566,"endTime":5454.933,"body":"community could know what it was that was"},{"startTime":5454.933,"endTime":5457.466,"body":"actually known when taken in a collective"},{"startTime":5457.466,"endTime":5461.3,"body":"form a review paper thus has as perhaps"},{"startTime":5461.3,"endTime":5464.733,"body":"its primary necessary goal that it"},{"startTime":5464.733,"endTime":5467.666,"body":"actually successfully completely reviews"},{"startTime":5467.666,"endTime":5470.333,"body":"all of the existing literature very first"},{"startTime":5470.333,"endTime":5474.133,"body":"reason for the retraction here is that"},{"startTime":5475.033,"endTime":5477.233,"body":"what they reviewed was unpublished"},{"startTime":5477.233,"endTime":5479.433,"body":"Monsanto which is the maker of glyphosate"},{"startTime":5479.433,"endTime":5482.533,"body":"studies and none of the actually"},{"startTime":5482.533,"endTime":5484.1,"body":"published reviews that had already been"},{"startTime":5484.1,"endTime":5485.833,"body":"published at the time of submission to"},{"startTime":5485.833,"endTime":5488.033,"body":"the journal which not right there means"},{"startTime":5488.033,"endTime":5489.6,"body":"that this was not a review paper at all"},{"startTime":5489.6,"endTime":5492.866,"body":"yeah it was an anti-review i will say um"},{"startTime":5492.866,"endTime":5496.666,"body":"good on the handling editor for"},{"startTime":5496.666,"endTime":5499.1,"body":"retracting it but this is a failure of"},{"startTime":5499.1,"endTime":5501.266,"body":"the journal this is not something that"},{"startTime":5501.266,"endTime":5503.533,"body":"came to light later this was a failure of"},{"startTime":5503.533,"endTime":5505.933,"body":"the journal to recognize that this review"},{"startTime":5505.933,"endTime":5507.1,"body":"article failed to review"},{"startTime":5507.1,"endTime":5508.366,"body":"the literature in question"},{"startTime":5508.366,"endTime":5511.399,"body":"well i mean in this yeah this gets back"},{"startTime":5511.399,"endTime":5513.733,"body":"to one of the problems of peer review of"},{"startTime":5513.733,"endTime":5516.366,"body":"course um that back when you know back"},{"startTime":5516.366,"endTime":5519.1,"body":"when we were professors i was um you know"},{"startTime":5519.1,"endTime":5521.066,"body":"somewhat often asked to peer review"},{"startTime":5521.066,"endTime":5524.199,"body":"articles and i did so i took it as a as"},{"startTime":5524.199,"endTime":5526.433,"body":"part of my responsibility to sort of the"},{"startTime":5526.433,"endTime":5528.633,"body":"academy even though it is explicitly"},{"startTime":5528.733,"endTime":5531.366,"body":"unremunerated and it takes a lot of work"},{"startTime":5531.366,"endTime":5534.899,"body":"and uh and there you know there there's"},{"startTime":5534.899,"endTime":5536.866,"body":"sort of two approaches that editors can"},{"startTime":5536.866,"endTime":5538.766,"body":"take when sending papers out for peer"},{"startTime":5538.766,"endTime":5541.033,"body":"review they can send papers out to people"},{"startTime":5541.033,"endTime":5543.733,"body":"who are doing work exactly in the domain"},{"startTime":5543.733,"endTime":5546.333,"body":"where the research is being done and thus"},{"startTime":5546.333,"endTime":5548.166,"body":"they are very likely to know if anything"},{"startTime":5548.166,"endTime":5549.933,"body":"has been missed for instance oh there are"},{"startTime":5549.933,"endTime":5551.266,"body":"review papers out that that you haven't"},{"startTime":5551.266,"endTime":5554.433,"body":"reviewed here however you end up with"},{"startTime":5554.433,"endTime":5557.566,"body":"this circle jerk of of scientists"},{"startTime":5557.6,"endTime":5559.733,"body":"potentially who okay there's a community"},{"startTime":5559.733,"endTime":5563.133,"body":"of call it 440 maybe even 400 scientists"},{"startTime":5563.133,"endTime":5565.399,"body":"depending on what the field is uh who are"},{"startTime":5565.399,"endTime":5567.766,"body":"all working in the same in the same area"},{"startTime":5567.766,"endTime":5570.666,"body":"and if it becomes clear that one of them"},{"startTime":5570.666,"endTime":5571.899,"body":"yes peer review is supposed to be"},{"startTime":5571.899,"endTime":5573.733,"body":"anonymous but almost always people can"},{"startTime":5573.733,"endTime":5576.233,"body":"tell if it becomes clear that one or a"},{"startTime":5576.233,"endTime":5577.966,"body":"handful of scientists are actually being"},{"startTime":5577.966,"endTime":5579.366,"body":"rigorous in their peer review and"},{"startTime":5579.366,"endTime":5581.433,"body":"pointing out flaws and causing people's"},{"startTime":5581.433,"endTime":5583.566,"body":"papers not to be accepted by the journals"},{"startTime":5584.0,"endTime":5586.533,"body":"then there is going to be retribution and"},{"startTime":5586.533,"endTime":5589.833,"body":"so um the the problem with sending peer"},{"startTime":5589.833,"endTime":5593.033,"body":"review with sending papers out to peers"},{"startTime":5593.033,"endTime":5595.866,"body":"within the same sub-discipline is that"},{"startTime":5595.866,"endTime":5599.066,"body":"you have a game theoretic problem in"},{"startTime":5599.066,"endTime":5601.533,"body":"which unless you can be assured that you"},{"startTime":5601.533,"endTime":5603.466,"body":"are actually completely anonymous and if"},{"startTime":5603.466,"endTime":5605.033,"body":"the community is very small how could you"},{"startTime":5605.033,"endTime":5610.166,"body":"possibly be honest review is taken as uh"},{"startTime":5610.166,"endTime":5613.533,"body":"basically actionable for retribution or"},{"startTime":5613.533,"endTime":5616.566,"body":"you can send papers out to people sort of"},{"startTime":5616.566,"endTime":5619.166,"body":"more broadly in the field and then"},{"startTime":5619.166,"endTime":5621.666,"body":"they're less likely to know that oh"},{"startTime":5621.666,"endTime":5623.433,"body":"actually there are reviews out there so"},{"startTime":5623.633,"endTime":5626.166,"body":"again it's unremunerated work there's a"},{"startTime":5626.166,"endTime":5627.533,"body":"problem if you send it to people who are"},{"startTime":5627.533,"endTime":5630.066,"body":"most likely to know if the if the review"},{"startTime":5630.066,"endTime":5631.8,"body":"has been done well and then there are"},{"startTime":5631.8,"endTime":5634.066,"body":"problems um if you send it out to people"},{"startTime":5634.066,"endTime":5636.733,"body":"who are less likely to feel beholden to"},{"startTime":5636.733,"endTime":5638.766,"body":"the authors of the paper but less likely"},{"startTime":5638.766,"endTime":5640.233,"body":"you know what those people are likely to"},{"startTime":5640.233,"endTime":5642.399,"body":"be able to do is assess the actual rigor"},{"startTime":5642.399,"endTime":5645.033,"body":"of the work in a review paper that's"},{"startTime":5645.033,"endTime":5646.466,"body":"going to be you know less interesting"},{"startTime":5646.466,"endTime":5647.699,"body":"it's not going to be about experimental"},{"startTime":5647.699,"endTime":5649.666,"body":"design and hypothesis generation and all"},{"startTime":5649.666,"endTime":5651.133,"body":"of this it's going to be just about like"},{"startTime":5651.133,"endTime":5653.199,"body":"are the statistics done correctly which"},{"startTime":5653.199,"endTime":5655.133,"body":"is an important part of peer review but"},{"startTime":5655.133,"endTime":5657.866,"body":"uh it it minimizes the"},{"startTime":5657.866,"endTime":5659.766,"body":"role of the peer reviewers but"},{"startTime":5659.766,"endTime":5661.566,"body":"even so we're talking about a paper"},{"startTime":5661.566,"endTime":5664.866,"body":"they've had a quarter century of feedback"},{"startTime":5664.866,"endTime":5669.566,"body":"on this paper and to the extent an editor"},{"startTime":5669.566,"endTime":5673.1,"body":"should have known that this was missing"},{"startTime":5673.1,"endTime":5675.233,"body":"important literature shouldn't have taken"},{"startTime":5675.233,"endTime":5678.133,"body":"much to figure that out if they had made"},{"startTime":5678.133,"endTime":5680.166,"body":"the mistake of publishing it and then"},{"startTime":5680.166,"endTime":5682.899,"body":"discovered that because angry letters"},{"startTime":5682.899,"endTime":5684.466,"body":"arriving at the journal they should have"},{"startTime":5684.466,"endTime":5687.866,"body":"quickly retracted it and so i again would"},{"startTime":5687.866,"endTime":5690.033,"body":"point out something's wrong it should be"},{"startTime":5690.033,"endTime":5692.466,"body":"no surprise something is wrong in the"},{"startTime":5692.466,"endTime":5695.133,"body":"state of toxicology um and it's going to"},{"startTime":5695.133,"endTime":5697.233,"body":"involve economic feedback loops almost"},{"startTime":5697.233,"endTime":5700.533,"body":"certainly um i would also point out one"},{"startTime":5700.533,"endTime":5701.266,"body":"of the things that is"},{"startTime":5701.266,"endTime":5702.566,"body":"inadvertently demonstrated"},{"startTime":5703.666,"endTime":5706.933,"body":"if mon santo running studies couldn't"},{"startTime":5706.933,"endTime":5709.233,"body":"find carcinogenicity and all sorts of"},{"startTime":5709.233,"endTime":5710.933,"body":"people who were not at mon santo found"},{"startTime":5710.933,"endTime":5713.066,"body":"carcinogenicity what does that tell you"},{"startTime":5713.066,"endTime":5714.899,"body":"about mon santo studies right they're not"},{"startTime":5714.899,"endTime":5716.666,"body":"science that's what it tells you"},{"startTime":5716.666,"endTime":5720.466,"body":"right that's right okay so um you know"},{"startTime":5720.466,"endTime":5722.033,"body":"there's a few more details about that"},{"startTime":5722.033,"endTime":5725.933,"body":"first reason for retraction uh but uh but"},{"startTime":5725.933,"endTime":5728.133,"body":"that's a big one right okay they just"},{"startTime":5728.166,"endTime":5729.433,"body":"they don't appear to have actually"},{"startTime":5729.433,"endTime":5732.033,"body":"reviewed the literature in in a paper"},{"startTime":5732.033,"endTime":5733.233,"body":"whose sole job was to"},{"startTime":5733.233,"endTime":5733.866,"body":"review the literature"},{"startTime":5733.866,"endTime":5734.5,"body":"should have been dead"},{"startTime":5734.5,"endTime":5735.566,"body":"on arrival over that"},{"startTime":5735.566,"endTime":5739.633,"body":"yeah exactly two second uh reason for"},{"startTime":5739.633,"endTime":5742.066,"body":"retraction of this 25 year old paper lack"},{"startTime":5742.066,"endTime":5744.633,"body":"of authorial independence litigation the"},{"startTime":5744.633,"endTime":5746.233,"body":"united states revealed correspondence"},{"startTime":5746.233,"endTime":5747.8,"body":"from mon santo suggesting that the"},{"startTime":5747.8,"endTime":5749.533,"body":"authors of the article were not solely"},{"startTime":5749.533,"endTime":5752.1,"body":"responsible for writing its content it"},{"startTime":5752.1,"endTime":5753.633,"body":"appears from that correspondence that"},{"startTime":5753.633,"endTime":5754.966,"body":"employees of mon santo may have"},{"startTime":5754.966,"endTime":5756.433,"body":"contributed to the writing of the article"},{"startTime":5756.433,"endTime":5757.933,"body":"without proper acknowledgement as"},{"startTime":5757.933,"endTime":5760.233,"body":"co-authors this lack of transparency"},{"startTime":5760.233,"endTime":5762.066,"body":"raises serious ethical concerns regarding"},{"startTime":5762.066,"endTime":5763.566,"body":"the independence and accountability of"},{"startTime":5763.566,"endTime":5765.333,"body":"the office of this article and the"},{"startTime":5765.333,"endTime":5767.199,"body":"academic integrity of the carcinogenicity"},{"startTime":5767.199,"endTime":5770.666,"body":"studies presented now i did not go and uh"},{"startTime":5770.666,"endTime":5773.133,"body":"try to figure out when the litigation in"},{"startTime":5773.133,"endTime":5775.699,"body":"the u.s that revealed this was presumably"},{"startTime":5775.699,"endTime":5777.533,"body":"wasn't right then it might be quite"},{"startTime":5777.533,"endTime":5781.366,"body":"recently i don't know but this points to"},{"startTime":5781.366,"endTime":5783.166,"body":"direct conflict of infant"},{"startTime":5783.166,"endTime":5786.566,"body":"direct conflict of interest"},{"startTime":5787.6,"endTime":5791.033,"body":"with regard to what in every single"},{"startTime":5791.033,"endTime":5794.166,"body":"scientific paper out there is explicitly"},{"startTime":5794.166,"endTime":5797.633,"body":"expected to be stated that you you have"},{"startTime":5797.633,"endTime":5799.933,"body":"to you have to state any conflicts with"},{"startTime":5799.933,"endTime":5802.466,"body":"regard to finances or other work that you"},{"startTime":5802.466,"endTime":5805.733,"body":"are doing or have done and if there are"},{"startTime":5805.733,"endTime":5807.699,"body":"other people who have contributed to the"},{"startTime":5807.699,"endTime":5810.533,"body":"work they need to be explicitly either"},{"startTime":5810.533,"endTime":5813.199,"body":"you know made authors um or acknowledged"},{"startTime":5813.199,"endTime":5816.233,"body":"and uh there is if i remember correctly"},{"startTime":5816.233,"endTime":5818.433,"body":"um at some point when i'm not on my"},{"startTime":5818.433,"endTime":5820.233,"body":"screen here i will look i think in the"},{"startTime":5820.233,"endTime":5822.233,"body":"acknowledgments of the original paper"},{"startTime":5822.233,"endTime":5824.866,"body":"there's a vague unspecified unnamed"},{"startTime":5824.866,"endTime":5827.566,"body":"mention of help from mon santo employees"},{"startTime":5827.566,"endTime":5830.366,"body":"you know by help they mean they went"},{"startTime":5830.366,"endTime":5831.766,"body":"ahead and gave us our conclusions and"},{"startTime":5831.766,"endTime":5833.833,"body":"wrote most of it for us well i guess so"},{"startTime":5833.833,"endTime":5838.433,"body":"okay uh third um reason for the"},{"startTime":5838.433,"endTime":5840.833,"body":"retraction of this 25 year old paper"},{"startTime":5840.833,"endTime":5843.1,"body":"misrepresentation of contributions this"},{"startTime":5843.1,"endTime":5844.966,"body":"is very similar to the last one the"},{"startTime":5844.966,"endTime":5846.466,"body":"apparent contributions of mon santo"},{"startTime":5846.466,"endTime":5848.266,"body":"employees as co-writers to this article"},{"startTime":5848.399,"endTime":5850.133,"body":"were not explicitly mentioned as such in"},{"startTime":5850.133,"endTime":5852.199,"body":"the acknowledgments section this omission"},{"startTime":5852.199,"endTime":5853.433,"body":"suggests that the authors may have"},{"startTime":5853.433,"endTime":5855.333,"body":"misrepresented their unique roles and the"},{"startTime":5855.333,"endTime":5856.5,"body":"collaborative nature of the work"},{"startTime":5856.5,"endTime":5858.699,"body":"presented the failure to disclose the"},{"startTime":5858.699,"endTime":5860.3,"body":"involvement of mon santo personnel and"},{"startTime":5860.3,"endTime":5862.166,"body":"the writing process compromises the"},{"startTime":5862.166,"endTime":5863.466,"body":"academic independence of the presented"},{"startTime":5863.466,"endTime":5865.133,"body":"findings and illusions drawn in the"},{"startTime":5865.133,"endTime":5868.233,"body":"article regarding carcinogenicity four"},{"startTime":5868.233,"endTime":5870.433,"body":"questions of financial compensation"},{"startTime":5870.433,"endTime":5872.433,"body":"further correspondence with mon santo"},{"startTime":5872.433,"endTime":5873.933,"body":"disclosed during litigation indicates"},{"startTime":5873.933,"endTime":5875.066,"body":"that the authors may have received"},{"startTime":5875.066,"endTime":5877.066,"body":"financial compensation from mon santo for"},{"startTime":5877.066,"endTime":5879.166,"body":"their work on this article which was not"},{"startTime":5879.166,"endTime":5880.866,"body":"disclosed as such in this publication"},{"startTime":5880.866,"endTime":5883.333,"body":"this raises significant ethical concerns"},{"startTime":5883.333,"endTime":5884.566,"body":"and calls into question the apparent"},{"startTime":5884.566,"endTime":5886.3,"body":"academic objectivity of the authors in"},{"startTime":5886.3,"endTime":5888.433,"body":"this publication which concerns and"},{"startTime":5888.433,"endTime":5890.266,"body":"questions have not been answered"},{"startTime":5890.266,"endTime":5893.433,"body":"goes so hold on i just want to point out"},{"startTime":5893.433,"endTime":5897.233,"body":"there's a whole there's a whole range of"},{"startTime":5897.233,"endTime":5900.533,"body":"games that can be played and there are a"},{"startTime":5900.533,"endTime":5902.766,"body":"whole range of countermeasures that have"},{"startTime":5902.766,"endTime":5905.199,"body":"been deployed to try to prevent them yes"},{"startTime":5905.199,"endTime":5906.966,"body":"yes do you have a conflict of interest"},{"startTime":5906.966,"endTime":5910.266,"body":"you have to declare it um what did all of"},{"startTime":5910.266,"endTime":5913.033,"body":"the authors do on this paper you have to"},{"startTime":5913.033,"endTime":5916.933,"body":"say the how was the work funded how how"},{"startTime":5916.933,"endTime":5920.566,"body":"was the work funded imagine all of the"},{"startTime":5920.566,"endTime":5923.8,"body":"games you can play if you can have an"},{"startTime":5923.8,"endTime":5925.8,"body":"author of the paper who is not named"},{"startTime":5925.8,"endTime":5928.766,"body":"somebody can write the paper other people"},{"startTime":5928.766,"endTime":5930.466,"body":"can claim they wrote the paper so let's"},{"startTime":5930.466,"endTime":5932.933,"body":"say i have a product and i want a paper"},{"startTime":5932.933,"endTime":5935.966,"body":"that says the product has awesome impacts"},{"startTime":5935.966,"endTime":5939.833,"body":"on my health right well i can write this"},{"startTime":5939.833,"endTime":5942.333,"body":"fraudulent paper and then i can have"},{"startTime":5942.333,"endTime":5944.266,"body":"other people i can say i don't even want"},{"startTime":5944.266,"endTime":5946.033,"body":"to be an author you be an author it goes"},{"startTime":5946.033,"endTime":5948.266,"body":"on your cv you get the credit they"},{"startTime":5948.266,"endTime":5950.699,"body":"publish the thing yeah then i say wow my"},{"startTime":5950.699,"endTime":5952.8,"body":"product look there's even scientific work"},{"startTime":5952.8,"endTime":5954.833,"body":"that says it has awesome effects on your"},{"startTime":5954.833,"endTime":5957.133,"body":"health but of course it wasn't that so"},{"startTime":5957.133,"endTime":5959.233,"body":"and given the penny any economy of"},{"startTime":5959.233,"endTime":5963.666,"body":"academia where low authored papers add to"},{"startTime":5963.666,"endTime":5966.033,"body":"your cv and add to your credibility as a"},{"startTime":5966.033,"endTime":5967.866,"body":"scientist even if they're crap papers and"},{"startTime":5967.866,"endTime":5969.433,"body":"even if you didn't write them at all"},{"startTime":5969.433,"endTime":5973.033,"body":"people people who are ethically"},{"startTime":5973.033,"endTime":5975.633,"body":"compromised which is to say most people"},{"startTime":5975.633,"endTime":5978.0,"body":"are likely to take someone up on that"},{"startTime":5978.0,"endTime":5979.3,"body":"offer hey i've got this paper it's"},{"startTime":5979.3,"endTime":5980.866,"body":"already written already like already"},{"startTime":5980.966,"endTime":5983.566,"body":"vetted by well me um you want to slap"},{"startTime":5983.566,"endTime":5984.566,"body":"your name on it so you can get it"},{"startTime":5984.566,"endTime":5986.366,"body":"published sure that's a deal"},{"startTime":5986.366,"endTime":5987.366,"body":"that a lot of people accept"},{"startTime":5987.366,"endTime":5989.566,"body":"and you know there's a whole range of"},{"startTime":5989.566,"endTime":5991.233,"body":"ways that you can contribute to a paper"},{"startTime":5991.233,"endTime":5992.833,"body":"that wouldn't seem to an outsider like"},{"startTime":5992.833,"endTime":5994.966,"body":"they were real contributions but are so"},{"startTime":5994.966,"endTime":5996.666,"body":"you we have seen this proliferation"},{"startTime":5996.666,"endTime":5999.266,"body":"because work has become more complicated"},{"startTime":5999.266,"endTime":6001.366,"body":"we've seen the number of authors on"},{"startTime":6001.366,"endTime":6003.433,"body":"technical papers go way up but that's not"},{"startTime":6003.433,"endTime":6005.633,"body":"entirely about the complexity it's also"},{"startTime":6005.633,"endTime":6008.233,"body":"about um it cost me if i've got a paper"},{"startTime":6008.233,"endTime":6011.166,"body":"with 10 authors it cost me very little to"},{"startTime":6011.166,"endTime":6013.366,"body":"give you the gift of being an author on"},{"startTime":6013.366,"endTime":6014.899,"body":"this paper for a contribution that"},{"startTime":6014.899,"endTime":6016.966,"body":"doesn't really warrant it and what will i"},{"startTime":6016.966,"endTime":6018.766,"body":"get from you maybe you'll smile on my"},{"startTime":6018.766,"endTime":6021.6,"body":"paper my next paper in review so anyway"},{"startTime":6021.6,"endTime":6023.933,"body":"these net these incestuous networks yeah"},{"startTime":6023.933,"endTime":6026.766,"body":"develop and the countermeasures are"},{"startTime":6026.766,"endTime":6028.266,"body":"manifestly inadequate"},{"startTime":6028.266,"endTime":6030.666,"body":"they're inadequate they're too slow um"},{"startTime":6030.666,"endTime":6032.233,"body":"they're trying to keep up with a game"},{"startTime":6032.233,"endTime":6033.866,"body":"that's evolving much more rapidly than"},{"startTime":6033.866,"endTime":6036.333,"body":"the countermeasures are um i have begun"},{"startTime":6036.333,"endTime":6038.633,"body":"to see not on these you know molecular"},{"startTime":6038.633,"endTime":6040.433,"body":"biology papers that are authored by like"},{"startTime":6040.433,"endTime":6043.833,"body":"many dozens of people but on papers that"},{"startTime":6043.833,"endTime":6045.866,"body":"have many authors something between let"},{"startTime":6045.866,"endTime":6047.266,"body":"me say just like five and twelve or"},{"startTime":6047.266,"endTime":6049.8,"body":"something increasingly now i will see a"},{"startTime":6049.8,"endTime":6051.233,"body":"description of what each author's"},{"startTime":6051.233,"endTime":6053.333,"body":"contribution was yeah um you know"},{"startTime":6053.333,"endTime":6056.133,"body":"historically um the last author on a"},{"startTime":6056.133,"endTime":6057.866,"body":"multi-authored paper was basically the"},{"startTime":6057.866,"endTime":6059.833,"body":"p.i the principal investigator of the lab"},{"startTime":6059.833,"endTime":6062.933,"body":"um he was the one he usually was the one"},{"startTime":6062.933,"endTime":6064.766,"body":"interested in the work in the first place"},{"startTime":6064.766,"endTime":6067.699,"body":"uh drove the experimental design at a"},{"startTime":6067.699,"endTime":6070.266,"body":"broad level you know wrote and received"},{"startTime":6070.266,"endTime":6074.766,"body":"the the federal grants um but often um"},{"startTime":6074.766,"endTime":6076.833,"body":"unfortunately modern science modern"},{"startTime":6076.833,"endTime":6079.133,"body":"scientists even lived in the most honest"},{"startTime":6079.133,"endTime":6081.666,"body":"and remarkable of them get trapped into"},{"startTime":6081.666,"endTime":6083.333,"body":"more and more bureaucratic roles the more"},{"startTime":6083.333,"endTime":6084.8,"body":"advanced they get like field scientists"},{"startTime":6084.8,"endTime":6086.166,"body":"don't get to go out in the field anymore"},{"startTime":6086.166,"endTime":6088.233,"body":"lab scientists don't get to spend time at"},{"startTime":6088.266,"endTime":6090.366,"body":"the bench anymore what they've become is"},{"startTime":6090.366,"endTime":6091.733,"body":"people seeking money from the federal"},{"startTime":6091.733,"endTime":6093.866,"body":"government and so it's their postdocs and"},{"startTime":6093.866,"endTime":6095.1,"body":"their graduate students who are doing the"},{"startTime":6095.1,"endTime":6097.233,"body":"work and so you'll see you know on say a"},{"startTime":6097.233,"endTime":6099.633,"body":"sixth authored paper uh you know the"},{"startTime":6099.633,"endTime":6102.333,"body":"first two authors maybe you know ran the"},{"startTime":6102.333,"endTime":6104.366,"body":"first part of the experiment and and did"},{"startTime":6104.366,"endTime":6106.066,"body":"most of the writing and the third author"},{"startTime":6106.066,"endTime":6108.1,"body":"did the stats and the fourth author you"},{"startTime":6108.1,"endTime":6109.466,"body":"know did a bunch of the grant work"},{"startTime":6109.466,"endTime":6111.033,"body":"because it was the undergraduate in the"},{"startTime":6111.033,"endTime":6112.466,"body":"lab and then like the final author was"},{"startTime":6112.466,"endTime":6115.466,"body":"the actual p.i um you know who without"},{"startTime":6115.466,"endTime":6117.166,"body":"whom none of it would have happened but"},{"startTime":6117.166,"endTime":6118.933,"body":"didn't actually do any of the work"},{"startTime":6118.933,"endTime":6120.533,"body":"involved yeah it's actually so may not be"},{"startTime":6120.533,"endTime":6121.633,"body":"able to actually vouch for"},{"startTime":6121.633,"endTime":6123.533,"body":"it it's a it's a genuinely difficult"},{"startTime":6123.533,"endTime":6125.3,"body":"question somebody may have done"},{"startTime":6125.3,"endTime":6127.133,"body":"foundational work they provide the"},{"startTime":6127.133,"endTime":6128.866,"body":"environment in which the work gets done"},{"startTime":6128.866,"endTime":6130.833,"body":"they didn't contribute to the experiment"},{"startTime":6130.833,"endTime":6132.766,"body":"is that a contribution or isn't it right"},{"startTime":6132.766,"endTime":6135.6,"body":"um you know yeah this is not an easy"},{"startTime":6135.6,"endTime":6137.199,"body":"problem it's not an easy problem to solve"},{"startTime":6137.199,"endTime":6140.166,"body":"you could also you know let's say you"},{"startTime":6140.166,"endTime":6142.966,"body":"have a case where you wanted to measure"},{"startTime":6142.966,"endTime":6144.633,"body":"the length of micro satellites and you"},{"startTime":6144.633,"endTime":6147.933,"body":"needed a primer uh to uh to get the"},{"startTime":6147.933,"endTime":6150.933,"body":"sequence measured somebody may supply the"},{"startTime":6150.933,"endTime":6152.266,"body":"primer had nothing to do with your"},{"startTime":6152.266,"endTime":6154.133,"body":"research question but"},{"startTime":6154.133,"endTime":6155.433,"body":"they made the primer yeah"},{"startTime":6155.433,"endTime":6156.833,"body":"without which the research couldn't be"},{"startTime":6156.833,"endTime":6158.633,"body":"done couldn't be done right so is that is"},{"startTime":6158.633,"endTime":6160.466,"body":"that worthy of an of a line in the"},{"startTime":6160.466,"endTime":6162.166,"body":"acknowledgments or is that worthy of"},{"startTime":6162.166,"endTime":6163.733,"body":"authorship well if you've or if you've"},{"startTime":6163.733,"endTime":6166.033,"body":"got a four person authored paper it's"},{"startTime":6166.033,"endTime":6167.666,"body":"probably not worthy of authorship if it's"},{"startTime":6167.666,"endTime":6169.3,"body":"if you've already got 20 authors on the"},{"startTime":6169.3,"endTime":6171.066,"body":"thing slap it in there and like let them"},{"startTime":6171.066,"endTime":6173.166,"body":"add that line to their cv and this is why"},{"startTime":6173.166,"endTime":6175.066,"body":"you have people you know early and mid"},{"startTime":6175.066,"endTime":6177.566,"body":"careers with you know hundreds of papers"},{"startTime":6177.566,"endTime":6182.633,"body":"um you know i i once asked a colleague uh"},{"startTime":6182.633,"endTime":6185.933,"body":"about some some work in a paper that they"},{"startTime":6185.933,"endTime":6189.033,"body":"were an author on and literally and i've"},{"startTime":6189.033,"endTime":6191.6,"body":"reported the story before but this is a"},{"startTime":6191.6,"endTime":6193.733,"body":"particular story but i have many others"},{"startTime":6193.733,"endTime":6196.533,"body":"like it and i know it's not unique this"},{"startTime":6196.533,"endTime":6199.033,"body":"person said to me i don't know what that"},{"startTime":6199.033,"endTime":6200.466,"body":"means i said what do you mean you don't"},{"startTime":6200.466,"endTime":6201.833,"body":"know what that means you're an author on"},{"startTime":6201.833,"endTime":6203.133,"body":"the paper said well i didn't write that"},{"startTime":6203.133,"endTime":6205.466,"body":"part i said i don't i don't care you're"},{"startTime":6205.466,"endTime":6206.966,"body":"an author on the paper so why didn't it's"},{"startTime":6206.966,"endTime":6209.466,"body":"not the part i was responsible for it you"},{"startTime":6209.466,"endTime":6214.066,"body":"know he he felt no no shame no"},{"startTime":6214.066,"endTime":6216.233,"body":"embarrassment at all about actually"},{"startTime":6216.233,"endTime":6219.433,"body":"saying not only am i like dude did i not"},{"startTime":6219.433,"endTime":6221.466,"body":"write that i don't know what it means"},{"startTime":6221.466,"endTime":6223.366,"body":"maybe i don't even agree with it sure"},{"startTime":6223.366,"endTime":6225.266,"body":"it's in a paper that my name is on but i"},{"startTime":6225.266,"endTime":6226.733,"body":"wrote this little piece over here which"},{"startTime":6226.733,"endTime":6228.633,"body":"was also crap by the way but you know"},{"startTime":6228.633,"endTime":6230.766,"body":"like there's just no culpability so what"},{"startTime":6230.766,"endTime":6232.766,"body":"is a paper you know we're we're at a"},{"startTime":6232.766,"endTime":6235.466,"body":"we're at a level where it it raises"},{"startTime":6235.466,"endTime":6237.399,"body":"questions about what is a scientific"},{"startTime":6237.399,"endTime":6239.733,"body":"paper and if it doesn't hold together as"},{"startTime":6239.733,"endTime":6243.0,"body":"a as a coherent mass where at the very"},{"startTime":6243.0,"endTime":6245.233,"body":"least every single author can tell you"},{"startTime":6245.233,"endTime":6247.333,"body":"what the hypothesis was and what work was"},{"startTime":6247.333,"endTime":6249.566,"body":"done and how it was analyzed and what the"},{"startTime":6249.566,"endTime":6251.533,"body":"results were and what that means in the"},{"startTime":6251.533,"endTime":6253.466,"body":"context of what else is known in science"},{"startTime":6253.466,"endTime":6256.166,"body":"then i'm sorry it shouldn't qualify"},{"startTime":6256.166,"endTime":6258.966,"body":"yes it actually reminds me of the thing"},{"startTime":6258.966,"endTime":6261.899,"body":"you sometimes say that nobody at the"},{"startTime":6261.899,"endTime":6266.399,"body":"cocktail party would uh be proud of being"},{"startTime":6266.399,"endTime":6269.566,"body":"illiterate but people frequently proclaim"},{"startTime":6269.566,"endTime":6272.333,"body":"pride over being enumerate in this case"},{"startTime":6272.333,"endTime":6275.333,"body":"you get this weird kind of pride inside"},{"startTime":6276.566,"endTime":6278.833,"body":"of research science where people are"},{"startTime":6278.833,"endTime":6280.733,"body":"basically evidencing that yeah i know how"},{"startTime":6280.733,"endTime":6283.233,"body":"the game runs and i'm good at it and you"},{"startTime":6283.233,"endTime":6284.933,"body":"know yeah i didn't write that part of the"},{"startTime":6284.933,"endTime":6286.899,"body":"paper and they don't realize that they're"},{"startTime":6286.899,"endTime":6288.566,"body":"telling on themselves you're actually"},{"startTime":6288.566,"endTime":6290.533,"body":"saying that you gave up on science a long"},{"startTime":6290.533,"endTime":6291.933,"body":"time ago and you're just"},{"startTime":6291.933,"endTime":6293.199,"body":"playing some stupid game"},{"startTime":6293.199,"endTime":6295.066,"body":"well that's exactly it hey look at me i'm"},{"startTime":6295.066,"endTime":6297.133,"body":"so good at the game of science like and"},{"startTime":6297.133,"endTime":6298.866,"body":"clearly you don't care about actual"},{"startTime":6298.866,"endTime":6300.8,"body":"science yeah like that you know you you"},{"startTime":6300.8,"endTime":6302.733,"body":"can get one congratulations you're good"},{"startTime":6302.733,"endTime":6304.533,"body":"at the game but you're"},{"startTime":6304.533,"endTime":6305.566,"body":"not good at the actual thing"},{"startTime":6305.666,"endTime":6307.766,"body":"yeah and the game actually destroys the"},{"startTime":6307.766,"endTime":6309.366,"body":"actual thing that's that's what gets"},{"startTime":6309.366,"endTime":6311.633,"body":"people like you and me upset by this sort"},{"startTime":6311.633,"endTime":6313.366,"body":"of behavior is it's not like that game"},{"startTime":6313.366,"endTime":6315.466,"body":"continues and it's some separate thing"},{"startTime":6315.466,"endTime":6317.766,"body":"it's it you know drenches the literature"},{"startTime":6317.766,"endTime":6320.466,"body":"in things that masquerade as if they're"},{"startTime":6320.466,"endTime":6322.766,"body":"informative when in fact you in fact you"},{"startTime":6322.766,"endTime":6323.766,"body":"don't even know what they are"},{"startTime":6323.766,"endTime":6328.733,"body":"right right okay so um let's keep going"},{"startTime":6328.733,"endTime":6332.0,"body":"through there's uh eight points of the"},{"startTime":6332.0,"endTime":6336.166,"body":"reason that the uh co whatever founding"},{"startTime":6336.166,"endTime":6338.733,"body":"uh i don't remember the editor handling"},{"startTime":6338.733,"endTime":6343.1,"body":"the co-handling editor of currently of"},{"startTime":6343.1,"endTime":6345.899,"body":"regulatory toxicology of pharmacology uh"},{"startTime":6345.899,"endTime":6349.199,"body":"is retracting has retracted uh the"},{"startTime":6349.199,"endTime":6352.033,"body":"foundational 2000 paper uh which"},{"startTime":6352.033,"endTime":6354.166,"body":"supposedly established the safety of"},{"startTime":6354.166,"endTime":6357.566,"body":"glyphosate in in humans number five"},{"startTime":6357.566,"endTime":6360.766,"body":"ambiguity and research findings this"},{"startTime":6360.766,"endTime":6362.166,"body":"article has been widely regarded as a"},{"startTime":6362.166,"endTime":6363.533,"body":"hallmark paper in the discourse"},{"startTime":6363.533,"endTime":6365.266,"body":"surrounding the carcinogenicity of"},{"startTime":6365.266,"endTime":6367.699,"body":"glyphosate and roundup however the lack"},{"startTime":6367.699,"endTime":6369.266,"body":"of clarity regarding which parts of the"},{"startTime":6369.266,"endTime":6370.733,"body":"article were authored by monsanto"},{"startTime":6370.733,"endTime":6372.366,"body":"employees creates uncertainty about the"},{"startTime":6372.366,"endTime":6374.033,"body":"integrity of the conclusions drawn"},{"startTime":6374.566,"endTime":6376.133,"body":"specifically the article asserts the"},{"startTime":6376.133,"endTime":6377.699,"body":"absence of carcinogenicity associated"},{"startTime":6377.699,"endTime":6379.1,"body":"with glyphosate or its technical"},{"startTime":6379.1,"endTime":6381.533,"body":"formulation roundup it is unclear how"},{"startTime":6381.533,"endTime":6382.8,"body":"much of the conclusions of the authors"},{"startTime":6382.8,"endTime":6384.666,"body":"were influenced by external contributions"},{"startTime":6384.666,"endTime":6386.0,"body":"of monsanto without proper"},{"startTime":6386.0,"endTime":6388.333,"body":"acknowledgments again related to the"},{"startTime":6388.333,"endTime":6390.333,"body":"previous several but a distinct point"},{"startTime":6390.333,"endTime":6392.633,"body":"it also strikes me though as very weak"},{"startTime":6392.633,"endTime":6395.366,"body":"tea at the point you know that monsanto"},{"startTime":6395.366,"endTime":6400.633,"body":"has written part of this paper and it's"},{"startTime":6400.633,"endTime":6403.233,"body":"not acknowledged as having"},{"startTime":6403.233,"endTime":6405.333,"body":"authorship the paper's a fraud"},{"startTime":6405.333,"endTime":6406.766,"body":"well but that's what they that's what"},{"startTime":6406.766,"endTime":6408.366,"body":"he's that's what they've done here right"},{"startTime":6408.366,"endTime":6409.433,"body":"but he's saying one of eight"},{"startTime":6409.433,"endTime":6411.6,"body":"points right but this is five i know but"},{"startTime":6411.6,"endTime":6414.199,"body":"he's he's saying we don't know which"},{"startTime":6414.199,"endTime":6416.933,"body":"parts monsanto wrote the real answer is"},{"startTime":6416.933,"endTime":6419.5,"body":"monsanto wrote parts of this paper period"},{"startTime":6419.5,"endTime":6421.933,"body":"the end it's a fraud um and"},{"startTime":6421.933,"endTime":6424.833,"body":"i i i disagree i think i think being"},{"startTime":6424.833,"endTime":6427.266,"body":"careful being as accurate and less"},{"startTime":6427.266,"endTime":6429.333,"body":"important but as precise as possible when"},{"startTime":6429.333,"endTime":6430.933,"body":"you can be especially when you're"},{"startTime":6430.933,"endTime":6432.666,"body":"retracting you know there's going to be"},{"startTime":6432.666,"endTime":6434.699,"body":"major pushback to this retraction i'm"},{"startTime":6434.699,"endTime":6436.366,"body":"sure there's going to be explanations for"},{"startTime":6436.366,"endTime":6438.6,"body":"why okay fine you retracted that paper"},{"startTime":6438.6,"endTime":6440.433,"body":"but it was a good paper after all right"},{"startTime":6440.8,"endTime":6443.266,"body":"and so being very very careful about what"},{"startTime":6443.266,"endTime":6446.6,"body":"is and is not known uh is is valuable"},{"startTime":6446.6,"endTime":6448.033,"body":"well i don't want us to get lost in the"},{"startTime":6448.033,"endTime":6451.966,"body":"weeds here but what part of the paper"},{"startTime":6451.966,"endTime":6453.266,"body":"would be acceptable for"},{"startTime":6453.266,"endTime":6454.333,"body":"monsanto to have written"},{"startTime":6454.333,"endTime":6455.866,"body":"that's not that he's not"},{"startTime":6455.866,"endTime":6458.433,"body":"saying that some part of it is he's"},{"startTime":6458.433,"endTime":6459.733,"body":"well he's saying it's not clear which"},{"startTime":6459.733,"endTime":6463.0,"body":"parts and i'm just saying this editor i"},{"startTime":6463.0,"endTime":6464.066,"body":"think you're misunderstanding did not"},{"startTime":6464.066,"endTime":6466.433,"body":"spot that this review failed"},{"startTime":6466.433,"endTime":6467.966,"body":"to review the literature and"},{"startTime":6467.966,"endTime":6470.266,"body":"this is 26 years later this is not the"},{"startTime":6470.266,"endTime":6471.666,"body":"editor who was involved in"},{"startTime":6471.666,"endTime":6473.066,"body":"accepting this paper in 2000"},{"startTime":6473.066,"endTime":6477.033,"body":"this is not i took handling editor to be"},{"startTime":6477.033,"endTime":6478.833,"body":"the person responsible for this paper"},{"startTime":6478.833,"endTime":6481.433,"body":"maybe if that's not the case i doubt it"},{"startTime":6481.433,"endTime":6482.433,"body":"if that's not the case"},{"startTime":6482.433,"endTime":6484.366,"body":"then then i take back my"},{"startTime":6484.366,"endTime":6487.766,"body":"i didn't look into that i i i would be"},{"startTime":6487.766,"endTime":6489.533,"body":"shocked if there was still the same"},{"startTime":6489.533,"endTime":6490.5,"body":"handling editor well"},{"startTime":6490.5,"endTime":6492.6,"body":"i i agree it's impressive if no"},{"startTime":6492.6,"endTime":6496.233,"body":"i i don't think so no um but that's uh it"},{"startTime":6496.233,"endTime":6497.633,"body":"hadn't even occurred to me that it could"},{"startTime":6497.633,"endTime":6501.699,"body":"be so i didn't look it up um six uh sixth"},{"startTime":6501.699,"endTime":6504.566,"body":"point in uh the reason for retraction of"},{"startTime":6504.566,"endTime":6506.333,"body":"this paper from 2020 weight of evidence"},{"startTime":6506.333,"endTime":6508.333,"body":"approach the authors employed a weight of"},{"startTime":6508.333,"endTime":6509.8,"body":"evidence approach in their assessment of"},{"startTime":6509.8,"endTime":6511.266,"body":"glyphosate's carcinogenicity and"},{"startTime":6511.266,"endTime":6513.633,"body":"genotoxicity while this methodology is"},{"startTime":6513.633,"endTime":6515.266,"body":"sound in principle the potential biases"},{"startTime":6515.266,"endTime":6517.133,"body":"introduced by undisclosed contributions"},{"startTime":6517.133,"endTime":6519.666,"body":"from monsanto employees in the exclusion"},{"startTime":6519.666,"endTime":6520.766,"body":"of other existing long-term"},{"startTime":6520.766,"endTime":6523.033,"body":"carcinogenicity studies may have skewed"},{"startTime":6523.033,"endTime":6524.766,"body":"the interpretation of the data the"},{"startTime":6524.766,"endTime":6526.166,"body":"author's critical analysis of both"},{"startTime":6526.166,"endTime":6527.633,"body":"unpublished and published studies must"},{"startTime":6527.633,"endTime":6529.366,"body":"therefore be viewed with caution here to"},{"startTime":6529.366,"endTime":6531.833,"body":"object again to the cautious language may"},{"startTime":6531.833,"endTime":6534.1,"body":"have skewed viewed with caution this is"},{"startTime":6534.1,"endTime":6535.5,"body":"you know this this is how"},{"startTime":6535.5,"endTime":6536.5,"body":"scientific papers are written"},{"startTime":6536.5,"endTime":6538.399,"body":"yeah but this is the problem um"},{"startTime":6538.399,"endTime":6540.666,"body":"no no no no that is not the problem no"},{"startTime":6540.666,"endTime":6543.433,"body":"writing with with clarity and"},{"startTime":6543.433,"endTime":6544.633,"body":"conservatism and"},{"startTime":6544.633,"endTime":6545.8,"body":"caution is not the problem"},{"startTime":6545.8,"endTime":6548.666,"body":"the problem is no no exactly the problem"},{"startTime":6548.666,"endTime":6551.5,"body":"is fraud and the point is that the"},{"startTime":6551.5,"endTime":6553.433,"body":"caution belonged in the other"},{"startTime":6553.433,"endTime":6555.466,"body":"direction the caution should"},{"startTime":6555.466,"endTime":6558.133,"body":"know the caution belonged in 2000 right"},{"startTime":6558.133,"endTime":6560.566,"body":"exactly and that's having failed to"},{"startTime":6560.566,"endTime":6562.933,"body":"exercise you're holding the current"},{"startTime":6562.933,"endTime":6567.533,"body":"retraction accountable for yes and yes"},{"startTime":6567.533,"endTime":6570.166,"body":"because for the same reason that a"},{"startTime":6570.166,"endTime":6573.533,"body":"grudging acknowledgement this this i"},{"startTime":6573.533,"endTime":6576.766,"body":"think this this journal fell down on its"},{"startTime":6576.766,"endTime":6578.8,"body":"obligation to the to the public and"},{"startTime":6578.8,"endTime":6581.633,"body":"people died because of it so my feeling"},{"startTime":6581.633,"endTime":6585.533,"body":"is this needs to be accurate and the way"},{"startTime":6585.533,"endTime":6587.166,"body":"it needs to be accurate is to say"},{"startTime":6587.166,"endTime":6590.666,"body":"monsanto authored parts of this paper the"},{"startTime":6590.666,"endTime":6592.6,"body":"authors failed to acknowledge literature"},{"startTime":6592.6,"endTime":6594.833,"body":"that was relevant that monsanto didn't"},{"startTime":6594.833,"endTime":6598.199,"body":"author this paper was a fraud and and"},{"startTime":6598.199,"endTime":6598.933,"body":"that's how it should be"},{"startTime":6598.933,"endTime":6600.3,"body":"stated and the problem is"},{"startTime":6600.3,"endTime":6603.766,"body":"so you think that having more words makes"},{"startTime":6603.766,"endTime":6606.199,"body":"this week you think no but you want a"},{"startTime":6606.199,"endTime":6607.399,"body":"three sentence retraction"},{"startTime":6607.399,"endTime":6609.466,"body":"no well first of all i would accept a"},{"startTime":6609.466,"endTime":6610.533,"body":"three sentence retraction"},{"startTime":6610.533,"endTime":6611.6,"body":"but then there's no detail"},{"startTime":6611.6,"endTime":6613.466,"body":"that's fine then we know it's not okay"},{"startTime":6613.466,"endTime":6615.333,"body":"you can list all of these things but i"},{"startTime":6615.333,"endTime":6618.066,"body":"don't like hedging in there and the"},{"startTime":6618.066,"endTime":6620.166,"body":"question is you know being careful is not"},{"startTime":6620.166,"endTime":6625.266,"body":"hedging it's it's saying it we don't know"},{"startTime":6625.6,"endTime":6627.933,"body":"which parts of this paper monsanto"},{"startTime":6627.933,"endTime":6630.399,"body":"authored if monsanto was not an author on"},{"startTime":6630.399,"endTime":6632.333,"body":"the paper the fact that it authored any"},{"startTime":6632.333,"endTime":6634.633,"body":"part of it is in and of itself yes"},{"startTime":6634.633,"endTime":6635.933,"body":"invalidating of the entire"},{"startTime":6635.933,"endTime":6637.433,"body":"thing he doesn't say that that's not true"},{"startTime":6637.433,"endTime":6639.833,"body":"he's just saying it's possible that the"},{"startTime":6639.833,"endTime":6641.733,"body":"authors on the paper did write some of it"},{"startTime":6641.733,"endTime":6645.266,"body":"we don't know but clearly monsanto was"},{"startTime":6645.266,"endTime":6646.333,"body":"involved in writing some of"},{"startTime":6646.333,"endTime":6647.399,"body":"it and that's unacceptable"},{"startTime":6647.399,"endTime":6650.466,"body":"well look we have a completely broken"},{"startTime":6650.466,"endTime":6654.133,"body":"academic environment in my opinion part"},{"startTime":6654.133,"endTime":6656.033,"body":"of it has to do with the places that"},{"startTime":6656.033,"endTime":6658.333,"body":"things hide whether it's long authorship"},{"startTime":6658.333,"endTime":6660.966,"body":"lists or caution that has been reversed"},{"startTime":6660.966,"endTime":6664.666,"body":"and the fact is the public is entitled to"},{"startTime":6664.666,"endTime":6668.0,"body":"understand how bad a failure this was and"},{"startTime":6668.0,"endTime":6670.3,"body":"this was a catastrophic failure mind you"},{"startTime":6670.3,"endTime":6671.966,"body":"a catastrophic failure like this can"},{"startTime":6671.966,"endTime":6674.633,"body":"happen when human life and limb is not at"},{"startTime":6674.633,"endTime":6677.066,"body":"stake but in this particular case yes"},{"startTime":6677.066,"endTime":6680.266,"body":"human life and limb people die from this"},{"startTime":6680.266,"endTime":6682.533,"body":"pesticide and this journal has"},{"startTime":6682.533,"endTime":6684.233,"body":"responsibility because it completely"},{"startTime":6684.233,"endTime":6685.8,"body":"failed to do the job a journal is"},{"startTime":6685.8,"endTime":6687.666,"body":"supposed to do making sure that the"},{"startTime":6687.666,"endTime":6689.966,"body":"papers it publishes are accurate and if"},{"startTime":6689.966,"endTime":6693.199,"body":"they're not retracting them quickly so"},{"startTime":6693.199,"endTime":6694.0,"body":"the fact that this took"},{"startTime":6694.0,"endTime":6695.933,"body":"a quarter of a century is"},{"startTime":6697.266,"endTime":6698.766,"body":"i think we're learning why it took a"},{"startTime":6698.766,"endTime":6700.399,"body":"quarter of a century in the cautious"},{"startTime":6700.399,"endTime":6701.566,"body":"language of the retraction"},{"startTime":6701.833,"endTime":6705.1,"body":"i i don't think that's that's fair um at"},{"startTime":6705.1,"endTime":6710.233,"body":"all however um the the only uh"},{"startTime":6711.433,"endTime":6713.433,"body":"the only way that i think that that is a"},{"startTime":6713.433,"endTime":6718.066,"body":"fair uh critique here is if uh this"},{"startTime":6718.066,"endTime":6720.533,"body":"editor martin vanderberg was the handling"},{"startTime":6720.533,"endTime":6722.133,"body":"editor back then and has been sort of"},{"startTime":6722.133,"endTime":6724.833,"body":"sitting on growing evidence all along and"},{"startTime":6724.833,"endTime":6728.8,"body":"a very quick uh ai look uh"},{"startTime":6728.8,"endTime":6734.699,"body":"says nope uh he he was not uh"},{"startTime":6737.166,"endTime":6739.866,"body":"so i would be surprised at that duration"},{"startTime":6739.866,"endTime":6742.466,"body":"at the same journal yeah but i don't know"},{"startTime":6742.466,"endTime":6745.566,"body":"what the word handling is doing there if"},{"startTime":6745.566,"endTime":6747.199,"body":"he wasn't the one who handled"},{"startTime":6747.199,"endTime":6749.366,"body":"this he's handling it now that's i mean"},{"startTime":6749.366,"endTime":6750.933,"body":"that that's that's a term that shows up"},{"startTime":6750.933,"endTime":6753.533,"body":"in in journal editors that's that's not"},{"startTime":6753.533,"endTime":6755.833,"body":"that's not new to me um you know it can"},{"startTime":6755.833,"endTime":6756.933,"body":"mean different things in different"},{"startTime":6756.933,"endTime":6761.766,"body":"contexts but um i'm not i'm not that that"},{"startTime":6761.766,"endTime":6763.8,"body":"does not inherently come"},{"startTime":6763.8,"endTime":6765.3,"body":"with a timestamp from before"},{"startTime":6765.3,"endTime":6767.233,"body":"no but i mean look again we're in the"},{"startTime":6767.233,"endTime":6769.199,"body":"weeds but if you think about the reason"},{"startTime":6769.199,"endTime":6772.066,"body":"that i took handling to be important here"},{"startTime":6772.5,"endTime":6776.833,"body":"is that the handling editor suggests one"},{"startTime":6776.833,"endTime":6778.766,"body":"interpretation of it is that it was the"},{"startTime":6778.766,"endTime":6781.433,"body":"editor who handled this paper why is this"},{"startTime":6781.433,"endTime":6783.233,"body":"editor in charge of this retraction"},{"startTime":6783.233,"endTime":6785.666,"body":"rather than the editorial board because"},{"startTime":6785.666,"endTime":6788.133,"body":"he was the handling editor maybe that's"},{"startTime":6788.133,"endTime":6790.899,"body":"not maybe it's not true but it isn't it"},{"startTime":6790.899,"endTime":6792.433,"body":"well it is an interpretation"},{"startTime":6792.433,"endTime":6794.1,"body":"to that word the word is okay"},{"startTime":6794.1,"endTime":6796.766,"body":"but i so i i just allowed that there was"},{"startTime":6796.766,"endTime":6799.333,"body":"one condition by which i would allow for"},{"startTime":6799.333,"endTime":6801.833,"body":"what i think is a is a very ungenerous"},{"startTime":6801.833,"endTime":6804.866,"body":"and frankly not helpful reaction that"},{"startTime":6804.866,"endTime":6808.166,"body":"you're having and on you know my first"},{"startTime":6808.166,"endTime":6810.466,"body":"look suggests very strongly that that"},{"startTime":6810.466,"endTime":6812.699,"body":"condition does not hold that this editor"},{"startTime":6812.699,"endTime":6816.333,"body":"was not the editor uh who accepted and"},{"startTime":6816.333,"endTime":6818.666,"body":"shepherded this paper back in 2000 and"},{"startTime":6818.666,"endTime":6821.6,"body":"your your position hasn't moved no my my"},{"startTime":6821.6,"endTime":6823.666,"body":"i i allowed that there was one condition"},{"startTime":6823.666,"endTime":6827.066,"body":"that would move my my position and it"},{"startTime":6827.066,"endTime":6830.866,"body":"it's it's not true and um i just think i"},{"startTime":6830.866,"endTime":6833.466,"body":"think this is this is massively important"},{"startTime":6833.466,"endTime":6836.466,"body":"this is going to get major pushback uh"},{"startTime":6836.466,"endTime":6839.266,"body":"i'll bet that we do not see so so you"},{"startTime":6839.266,"endTime":6840.666,"body":"know one thing that is also true that is"},{"startTime":6840.666,"endTime":6842.666,"body":"related in the new york times article is"},{"startTime":6842.666,"endTime":6847.399,"body":"that in 2026 uh the epa is uh i don't"},{"startTime":6847.399,"endTime":6849.199,"body":"know if it's certification or whatever of"},{"startTime":6849.199,"endTime":6851.466,"body":"glyphosate as safe for use on food crafts"},{"startTime":6851.466,"endTime":6853.6,"body":"for humans is coming up for review so"},{"startTime":6853.6,"endTime":6856.233,"body":"this comes at a critical moment like the"},{"startTime":6856.233,"endTime":6859.133,"body":"epa needs to take this not just into"},{"startTime":6859.133,"endTime":6861.066,"body":"consideration i just be like oh actually"},{"startTime":6861.066,"endTime":6863.433,"body":"we know nothing that says that this"},{"startTime":6863.433,"endTime":6866.433,"body":"garbage is safe for humans and we need to"},{"startTime":6866.433,"endTime":6868.266,"body":"you need to radically change our"},{"startTime":6868.266,"endTime":6870.066,"body":"recommendations for its use i would say"},{"startTime":6870.066,"endTime":6872.633,"body":"get it off the market entirely but you"},{"startTime":6872.633,"endTime":6875.466,"body":"know the timing is important it's"},{"startTime":6875.466,"endTime":6877.633,"body":"powerful it is a full retraction you can"},{"startTime":6877.633,"endTime":6879.833,"body":"see i can't even read the paper um you"},{"startTime":6879.833,"endTime":6880.733,"body":"know i couldn't even read all of the"},{"startTime":6880.733,"endTime":6881.833,"body":"abstract because they've stamped"},{"startTime":6881.833,"endTime":6884.433,"body":"retracted across the front of it uh you"},{"startTime":6884.433,"endTime":6888.5,"body":"know i don't i i think asking for more"},{"startTime":6888.5,"endTime":6890.766,"body":"asking for it to have happened earlier"},{"startTime":6890.766,"endTime":6891.766,"body":"you know this is like"},{"startTime":6891.766,"endTime":6892.8,"body":"you're like why now like"},{"startTime":6892.8,"endTime":6896.233,"body":"no no this is not this is not look i have"},{"startTime":6896.233,"endTime":6898.366,"body":"one interest and one interest only in"},{"startTime":6898.366,"endTime":6901.766,"body":"this which is what happens now should be"},{"startTime":6901.766,"endTime":6904.033,"body":"designed to make sure this kind of"},{"startTime":6904.033,"endTime":6906.533,"body":"failure never happens again yes and to"},{"startTime":6906.533,"endTime":6909.266,"body":"the extent that the journal minimizes its"},{"startTime":6909.266,"endTime":6912.5,"body":"responsibility that is a problem what"},{"startTime":6912.5,"endTime":6914.666,"body":"needs to happen is this needs to be so"},{"startTime":6914.666,"endTime":6918.199,"body":"embarrassing to the journal the level of"},{"startTime":6918.199,"endTime":6920.166,"body":"egregiousness of the failure here is so"},{"startTime":6920.166,"endTime":6922.533,"body":"large this needs to be so embarrassing to"},{"startTime":6922.533,"endTime":6924.533,"body":"the journal that no other journal would"},{"startTime":6924.533,"endTime":6926.333,"body":"contemplate making an error like this"},{"startTime":6926.333,"endTime":6928.133,"body":"that other journals will think oh crap"},{"startTime":6928.133,"endTime":6928.966,"body":"you know what we need"},{"startTime":6928.966,"endTime":6929.933,"body":"again i think i think"},{"startTime":6929.933,"endTime":6930.466,"body":"you're misunderstanding"},{"startTime":6931.933,"endTime":6933.699,"body":"what it looks like on the inside of peer"},{"startTime":6933.699,"endTime":6938.366,"body":"review that uh you know the best journals"},{"startTime":6938.366,"endTime":6940.866,"body":"the ones that are actually trying to um"},{"startTime":6940.866,"endTime":6943.1,"body":"publish good science to to other"},{"startTime":6943.1,"endTime":6946.966,"body":"scientists are overworked overburdened"},{"startTime":6946.966,"endTime":6949.866,"body":"they're asking unpaid academics to do a"},{"startTime":6949.866,"endTime":6951.5,"body":"bunch of the work and you know most of"},{"startTime":6951.5,"endTime":6952.866,"body":"the time they don't get responses at all"},{"startTime":6952.866,"endTime":6955.366,"body":"and then they get and so you know don't"},{"startTime":6955.366,"endTime":6958.066,"body":"do this again don't do don't do what"},{"startTime":6958.066,"endTime":6960.533,"body":"again like how like apparently a bunch of"},{"startTime":6960.533,"endTime":6962.533,"body":"what has been revealed that is the basis"},{"startTime":6962.533,"endTime":6964.133,"body":"for this retraction came out through"},{"startTime":6964.133,"endTime":6966.533,"body":"litigation that that happened well after"},{"startTime":6966.533,"endTime":6968.466,"body":"this was published right now but you know"},{"startTime":6968.466,"endTime":6970.033,"body":"the one thing that i have read in this"},{"startTime":6970.033,"endTime":6973.166,"body":"retraction um that could have been known"},{"startTime":6973.166,"endTime":6975.466,"body":"at the time was presumably known by some"},{"startTime":6975.466,"endTime":6977.6,"body":"people and was not caught by the editors"},{"startTime":6977.6,"endTime":6979.266,"body":"and the peer reviewers of the journal in"},{"startTime":6979.266,"endTime":6982.733,"body":"2000 is that there were published studies"},{"startTime":6982.733,"endTime":6985.033,"body":"that showed carcinogenicity and toxicity"},{"startTime":6985.033,"endTime":6987.199,"body":"of glyphosate that were not included in"},{"startTime":6987.199,"endTime":6990.166,"body":"the review that seems you know that it"},{"startTime":6990.166,"endTime":6992.233,"body":"seems obvious that that needed to be in a"},{"startTime":6992.233,"endTime":6995.8,"body":"review uh but how do you guarantee that"},{"startTime":6995.8,"endTime":6998.333,"body":"that is like without redoing the work"},{"startTime":6998.333,"endTime":7000.5,"body":"without every time a paper is going to be"},{"startTime":7000.5,"endTime":7002.566,"body":"published someone at the journal itself"},{"startTime":7002.566,"endTime":7004.199,"body":"redoes the work to make sure that"},{"startTime":7004.199,"endTime":7006.533,"body":"everything is as it is claimed like it's"},{"startTime":7006.533,"endTime":7010.266,"body":"it is no it is a maybe intractable"},{"startTime":7010.266,"endTime":7011.899,"body":"problem to guarantee that"},{"startTime":7011.899,"endTime":7013.266,"body":"all the work is going to be x"},{"startTime":7013.266,"endTime":7016.3,"body":"okay but let's take that okay the work"},{"startTime":7016.3,"endTime":7019.266,"body":"would have to be much greater than the"},{"startTime":7019.266,"endTime":7022.133,"body":"available labor in order to get a proper"},{"startTime":7022.166,"endTime":7024.266,"body":"study that would say this thing is safe"},{"startTime":7024.266,"endTime":7025.8,"body":"enough to put it on food crops and my"},{"startTime":7025.8,"endTime":7028.633,"body":"point is fine if you can't do the work or"},{"startTime":7028.633,"endTime":7030.8,"body":"if you can't review the work to make sure"},{"startTime":7030.8,"endTime":7032.466,"body":"that this product is safe to be on food"},{"startTime":7032.466,"endTime":7033.766,"body":"products it shouldn't"},{"startTime":7033.766,"endTime":7035.533,"body":"be and the fact that the"},{"startTime":7035.533,"endTime":7037.433,"body":"journal isn't about safe on food products"},{"startTime":7037.433,"endTime":7040.033,"body":"like this is a this is a basic oh yes it"},{"startTime":7040.033,"endTime":7043.566,"body":"is it is playing a role in the process"},{"startTime":7043.566,"endTime":7046.6,"body":"that arguably makes us safe and because"},{"startTime":7046.6,"endTime":7048.833,"body":"it is not doing that role well we are not"},{"startTime":7048.833,"endTime":7051.733,"body":"safe so my point is whatever the problems"},{"startTime":7051.733,"endTime":7053.833,"body":"are in the academy whatever the level of"},{"startTime":7053.833,"endTime":7056.233,"body":"overworkness of the people involved they"},{"startTime":7056.233,"endTime":7058.8,"body":"don't have a right to do shoddy work when"},{"startTime":7058.8,"endTime":7060.466,"body":"life and limb is on the on the line"},{"startTime":7060.466,"endTime":7062.0,"body":"frankly they don't have a right to do"},{"startTime":7062.0,"endTime":7064.133,"body":"shoddy work when only the future of"},{"startTime":7064.133,"endTime":7065.8,"body":"science is on the line even if we were"},{"startTime":7065.8,"endTime":7068.899,"body":"talking about cosmology you if you don't"},{"startTime":7068.899,"endTime":7070.5,"body":"have the labor to make sure the thing is"},{"startTime":7070.5,"endTime":7072.633,"body":"done right most of the time then you"},{"startTime":7072.633,"endTime":7073.233,"body":"shouldn't have a"},{"startTime":7073.233,"endTime":7076.933,"body":"journal and so i am in sense"},{"startTime":7076.933,"endTime":7079.766,"body":"what so you know the problem then becomes"},{"startTime":7079.766,"endTime":7083.566,"body":"worse there are already you know by by"},{"startTime":7083.566,"endTime":7087.066,"body":"many measures too many people with"},{"startTime":7087.066,"endTime":7089.8,"body":"appropriate degrees trying to publish too"},{"startTime":7089.8,"endTime":7092.466,"body":"many papers because the one metric"},{"startTime":7092.466,"endTime":7094.666,"body":"because the thing that's easy to count is"},{"startTime":7094.666,"endTime":7097.533,"body":"how many papers do you know yep and there"},{"startTime":7097.533,"endTime":7101.199,"body":"aren't enough journals even now to to to"},{"startTime":7101.199,"endTime":7102.699,"body":"publish all the papers that people want"},{"startTime":7102.699,"endTime":7104.866,"body":"to publish the fact i mean we've talked"},{"startTime":7104.866,"endTime":7108.766,"body":"about uh you know more chronic issues"},{"startTime":7108.766,"endTime":7112.633,"body":"with regard to paper mills and uh you"},{"startTime":7112.633,"endTime":7115.8,"body":"know fake people being put on papers and"},{"startTime":7115.8,"endTime":7117.699,"body":"being and you know i know this problem is"},{"startTime":7117.699,"endTime":7119.833,"body":"about to get way worse right the papers"},{"startTime":7119.833,"endTime":7121.766,"body":"are going to be generated entirely not by"},{"startTime":7121.766,"endTime":7123.666,"body":"humans uh and you know the"},{"startTime":7123.666,"endTime":7125.133,"body":"work itself may be fabricated"},{"startTime":7125.133,"endTime":7128.0,"body":"right but i think your question go uh"},{"startTime":7128.0,"endTime":7130.966,"body":"first of all i have said in many"},{"startTime":7130.966,"endTime":7133.333,"body":"different places i'm i don't think you"},{"startTime":7133.333,"endTime":7135.633,"body":"disagree with me that the system is so"},{"startTime":7135.633,"endTime":7138.033,"body":"broken it can't be fixed here we're"},{"startTime":7138.033,"endTime":7139.866,"body":"getting to peer into a place where that"},{"startTime":7139.866,"endTime":7142.433,"body":"brokenness resulted in humans getting"},{"startTime":7142.433,"endTime":7144.233,"body":"cancers that they were assured would not"},{"startTime":7144.233,"endTime":7148.666,"body":"be downstream of this product and do i"},{"startTime":7148.666,"endTime":7151.6,"body":"think that you know the population of the"},{"startTime":7151.6,"endTime":7155.866,"body":"academy can be saved by uh by reforming"},{"startTime":7155.866,"endTime":7158.699,"body":"the system i don't i'm not particularly"},{"startTime":7158.699,"endTime":7160.433,"body":"concerned about them because they haven't"},{"startTime":7160.433,"endTime":7162.766,"body":"stood up against this fraud en masse as"},{"startTime":7162.766,"endTime":7165.933,"body":"they should have so no i don't i don't"},{"startTime":7165.933,"endTime":7167.6,"body":"think you can rescue these journals i"},{"startTime":7167.6,"endTime":7169.8,"body":"don't think you can rescue the faculty i"},{"startTime":7169.8,"endTime":7171.566,"body":"don't think you can rescue this process"},{"startTime":7171.566,"endTime":7174.466,"body":"every time we peer into it we see that"},{"startTime":7174.466,"endTime":7176.233,"body":"this is its product a bunch of people"},{"startTime":7176.233,"endTime":7178.333,"body":"solving their own little game theoretic"},{"startTime":7178.333,"endTime":7179.8,"body":"problems about how they're going to get"},{"startTime":7179.8,"endTime":7181.766,"body":"through their career results in other"},{"startTime":7181.766,"endTime":7184.033,"body":"people dying of cancer who were told that"},{"startTime":7184.033,"endTime":7185.533,"body":"the product that they were using was safe"},{"startTime":7185.766,"endTime":7187.333,"body":"and it's not acceptable so"},{"startTime":7187.333,"endTime":7189.066,"body":"well you're really going to like point"},{"startTime":7189.066,"endTime":7192.733,"body":"seven okay yeah uh so seven of eight of"},{"startTime":7192.733,"endTime":7195.633,"body":"the of the reasons that the paper uh from"},{"startTime":7195.633,"endTime":7198.033,"body":"2020 has been retracted is historical"},{"startTime":7198.033,"endTime":7200.333,"body":"context and influence the paper has"},{"startTime":7200.333,"endTime":7202.233,"body":"significant impact on regulatory decision"},{"startTime":7202.233,"endTime":7203.866,"body":"making regarding glyphosate and roundup"},{"startTime":7203.866,"endTime":7206.266,"body":"for decades given its status as a"},{"startTime":7206.266,"endTime":7207.466,"body":"cornerstone in the assessment of"},{"startTime":7207.466,"endTime":7209.633,"body":"glyphosate safety it is imperative that"},{"startTime":7209.633,"endTime":7211.333,"body":"the integrity of this review article and"},{"startTime":7211.333,"endTime":7213.733,"body":"its conclusions are not compromised the"},{"startTime":7213.733,"endTime":7215.5,"body":"concerns specified here necessitate this"},{"startTime":7215.5,"endTime":7216.966,"body":"attraction to preserve the scientific"},{"startTime":7216.966,"endTime":7219.6,"body":"integrity of the journal go off"},{"startTime":7219.6,"endTime":7222.833,"body":"no i mean i think we've said it all yes i"},{"startTime":7222.833,"endTime":7225.533,"body":"don't like this hedging voice and whoever"},{"startTime":7225.533,"endTime":7227.399,"body":"you are who wrote this you owed the"},{"startTime":7227.399,"endTime":7229.1,"body":"public better you should have just said"},{"startTime":7229.1,"endTime":7231.033,"body":"it straight we screwed up we published a"},{"startTime":7231.033,"endTime":7232.433,"body":"paper you shouldn't have published we"},{"startTime":7232.433,"endTime":7234.699,"body":"didn't retract it in a timely fashion and"},{"startTime":7234.699,"endTime":7236.866,"body":"even if that timely fashion was as soon"},{"startTime":7236.866,"endTime":7239.6,"body":"as discovery in court revealed that the"},{"startTime":7239.6,"endTime":7241.766,"body":"paper wasn't what it pretended to be it"},{"startTime":7241.766,"endTime":7243.266,"body":"should have been retracted then and the"},{"startTime":7243.266,"endTime":7245.5,"body":"fact that you're hedging and at this"},{"startTime":7245.5,"endTime":7247.766,"body":"point you know you want a pat on the back"},{"startTime":7247.766,"endTime":7249.833,"body":"for retracting it no there should people"},{"startTime":7249.933,"endTime":7251.166,"body":"died i'm sorry they"},{"startTime":7251.166,"endTime":7252.466,"body":"died and that's on you"},{"startTime":7252.466,"endTime":7254.166,"body":"okay so i don't see hedging in this"},{"startTime":7254.166,"endTime":7255.966,"body":"attraction i disagree with you about that"},{"startTime":7255.966,"endTime":7258.466,"body":"but let's just read the the final point"},{"startTime":7258.466,"endTime":7260.166,"body":"eight conclusion in light of the"},{"startTime":7260.166,"endTime":7262.399,"body":"aforementioned issues the handling"},{"startTime":7262.399,"endTime":7264.266,"body":"co-editor in chief lost confidence in the"},{"startTime":7264.266,"endTime":7265.966,"body":"results and conclusions of this article"},{"startTime":7265.966,"endTime":7267.833,"body":"and believes that the retraction of this"},{"startTime":7267.833,"endTime":7269.333,"body":"article is necessary to maintain the"},{"startTime":7269.333,"endTime":7271.133,"body":"integrity of the journal the scientific"},{"startTime":7271.133,"endTime":7272.433,"body":"concerns regarding the lack of"},{"startTime":7272.433,"endTime":7274.066,"body":"carcinogenicity only derived from"},{"startTime":7274.066,"endTime":7276.533,"body":"monsanto studies concerns regarding ghost"},{"startTime":7276.533,"endTime":7278.1,"body":"authorships and potential conflicts of"},{"startTime":7278.1,"endTime":7279.566,"body":"interest none of which have been"},{"startTime":7279.566,"endTime":7281.5,"body":"responded to are sufficient to warrant"},{"startTime":7281.5,"endTime":7283.8,"body":"this action any of those points would"},{"startTime":7283.8,"endTime":7285.866,"body":"have been sufficient to more of this"},{"startTime":7285.866,"endTime":7290.899,"body":"action lack of lack of using non-monsanto"},{"startTime":7290.899,"endTime":7293.699,"body":"data or ghost authorship like either of"},{"startTime":7293.699,"endTime":7296.166,"body":"those yes certainly reason not to publish"},{"startTime":7296.166,"endTime":7297.266,"body":"in the first place of the ghost"},{"startTime":7297.266,"endTime":7298.466,"body":"authorship had they had no"},{"startTime":7298.466,"endTime":7299.933,"body":"way to know that at the time"},{"startTime":7301.199,"endTime":7303.166,"body":"but any of these points would have been"},{"startTime":7303.166,"endTime":7305.333,"body":"sufficient to retract we appreciate the"},{"startTime":7305.333,"endTime":7306.666,"body":"understanding of the scientific community"},{"startTime":7306.666,"endTime":7307.966,"body":"regarding this matter and remain"},{"startTime":7307.966,"endTime":7309.1,"body":"committed to upholding the highest"},{"startTime":7309.133,"endTime":7310.533,"body":"standards of integrity in published"},{"startTime":7310.533,"endTime":7312.333,"body":"research in regulatory"},{"startTime":7312.333,"endTime":7314.566,"body":"toxicology and pharmacology"},{"startTime":7316.233,"endTime":7316.766,"body":"yep"},{"startTime":7316.766,"endTime":7317.866,"body":"oh i'm glad he"},{"startTime":7317.866,"endTime":7319.1,"body":"appreciates my understanding"},{"startTime":7321.133,"endTime":7322.533,"body":"i'm part of the scientific community"},{"startTime":7322.533,"endTime":7324.266,"body":"oh wait oh you're gonna"},{"startTime":7324.266,"endTime":7325.066,"body":"you're gonna like the disclaimer"},{"startTime":7325.199,"endTime":7328.0,"body":"oh no yeah it comes with a disclaimer as"},{"startTime":7328.0,"endTime":7329.733,"body":"handling co-editor in chief i emphasize"},{"startTime":7329.733,"endTime":7331.333,"body":"that this attraction does not imply a"},{"startTime":7331.333,"endTime":7333.266,"body":"stance on the ongoing debate regarding"},{"startTime":7333.266,"endTime":7334.899,"body":"the carcinogenicity of glyphosate around"},{"startTime":7334.899,"endTime":7336.866,"body":"up but originates from directly following"},{"startTime":7336.866,"endTime":7338.399,"body":"the cope guidelines which"},{"startTime":7340.633,"endTime":7343.533,"body":"he has to say that that has to be his"},{"startTime":7343.533,"endTime":7345.133,"body":"position that has to be the journal's"},{"startTime":7345.133,"endTime":7346.633,"body":"position because they haven't"},{"startTime":7346.633,"endTime":7349.766,"body":"published counter evidence it"},{"startTime":7349.766,"endTime":7352.166,"body":"certainly doesn't need to be stated um"},{"startTime":7352.166,"endTime":7354.899,"body":"it's obvious this paper should never have"},{"startTime":7354.899,"endTime":7358.899,"body":"existed okay we all can figure out what"},{"startTime":7358.899,"endTime":7363.466,"body":"that means right most of us those of us"},{"startTime":7363.466,"endTime":7364.533,"body":"who need to figure out what that means"},{"startTime":7364.533,"endTime":7365.8,"body":"can figure out what that means"},{"startTime":7366.866,"endTime":7369.766,"body":"the added hedge is uh is preposterous but"},{"startTime":7369.766,"endTime":7370.833,"body":"anyway i'm sure it was"},{"startTime":7370.833,"endTime":7372.266,"body":"written from under his desk"},{"startTime":7372.966,"endTime":7374.366,"body":"i that's not fair"},{"startTime":7374.366,"endTime":7375.366,"body":"no it's fair"},{"startTime":7375.366,"endTime":7376.566,"body":"that's totally not fair"},{"startTime":7376.566,"endTime":7379.033,"body":"people died here is a it wasn't him"},{"startTime":7379.033,"endTime":7381.966,"body":"no but he is so you you've"},{"startTime":7381.966,"endTime":7383.566,"body":"got you've got a paper co-authored by"},{"startTime":7383.566,"endTime":7385.266,"body":"three people co-authored by court"},{"startTime":7385.266,"endTime":7387.033,"body":"publicly co-authored by three people"},{"startTime":7387.033,"endTime":7388.666,"body":"apparently ghost authored by like the"},{"startTime":7388.666,"endTime":7391.866,"body":"entire staff of mont santo yep okay only"},{"startTime":7391.866,"endTime":7393.533,"body":"one of those dudes is still living only"},{"startTime":7393.533,"endTime":7395.199,"body":"one of the publicly authored dudes is"},{"startTime":7395.199,"endTime":7396.566,"body":"still living he's not responding to"},{"startTime":7396.566,"endTime":7398.233,"body":"requests for like what the hell did you"},{"startTime":7398.233,"endTime":7401.166,"body":"do obviously the ghost authors are"},{"startTime":7401.166,"endTime":7402.766,"body":"invisible to us there's no tracking them"},{"startTime":7402.766,"endTime":7405.133,"body":"down although maybe in litigation maybe"},{"startTime":7405.133,"endTime":7407.666,"body":"you know maybe those court documents"},{"startTime":7407.666,"endTime":7410.033,"body":"reveal some stuff those are the people"},{"startTime":7410.033,"endTime":7413.233,"body":"who oh i agree at whom you"},{"startTime":7413.233,"endTime":7414.466,"body":"should be directing your ire"},{"startTime":7414.466,"endTime":7417.866,"body":"right no no it's there's plenty to go"},{"startTime":7417.866,"endTime":7420.466,"body":"around the fact is you had people submit"},{"startTime":7420.466,"endTime":7422.566,"body":"a fraudulent paper and those people have"},{"startTime":7422.566,"endTime":7424.766,"body":"done something utterly unforgivable in"},{"startTime":7424.766,"endTime":7427.6,"body":"light of what the topic is right these"},{"startTime":7427.6,"endTime":7429.5,"body":"people have blood on their hands the"},{"startTime":7429.5,"endTime":7431.533,"body":"journal failed to do the job of the"},{"startTime":7431.533,"endTime":7433.533,"body":"journal i don't want the journal hedging"},{"startTime":7433.533,"endTime":7435.566,"body":"about the failure to do the job of the"},{"startTime":7435.566,"endTime":7438.399,"body":"journal it's all too common and it has"},{"startTime":7438.399,"endTime":7441.733,"body":"had a horrifying impact on the way"},{"startTime":7441.733,"endTime":7444.366,"body":"civilization functions on the health of"},{"startTime":7444.366,"endTime":7446.233,"body":"the public i just want people to take"},{"startTime":7446.333,"endTime":7448.566,"body":"responsibility for their part entirely i"},{"startTime":7448.566,"endTime":7450.6,"body":"have some sympathy for an editor who"},{"startTime":7450.6,"endTime":7452.966,"body":"wasn't there at the point that this paper"},{"startTime":7452.966,"endTime":7454.833,"body":"was published who now has to clean up the"},{"startTime":7454.833,"endTime":7457.066,"body":"mess but what i want them to do is say"},{"startTime":7457.066,"endTime":7460.166,"body":"here's where we screwed up i want them to"},{"startTime":7460.166,"endTime":7461.866,"body":"do it without hedging and i think that"},{"startTime":7461.866,"endTime":7463.566,"body":"that's a reasonable thing to do it's it's"},{"startTime":7463.566,"endTime":7464.866,"body":"what it's what you would do"},{"startTime":7464.866,"endTime":7467.233,"body":"interpersonally if you had screwed up in"},{"startTime":7467.233,"endTime":7469.633,"body":"some way and you were explaining to"},{"startTime":7469.633,"endTime":7472.633,"body":"somebody else i made an error you"},{"startTime":7472.633,"endTime":7474.066,"body":"wouldn't hedge and the"},{"startTime":7474.166,"endTime":7475.6,"body":"hedging doesn't belong here anymore"},{"startTime":7475.6,"endTime":7480.466,"body":"but interpersonally like i i am not"},{"startTime":7480.466,"endTime":7482.433,"body":"responsible for the sins of my ancestors"},{"startTime":7482.433,"endTime":7486.666,"body":"okay so if i am now the editor at a"},{"startTime":7486.666,"endTime":7488.766,"body":"journal a job that i took i don't know"},{"startTime":7488.766,"endTime":7491.866,"body":"when right but let's say 12 and a half"},{"startTime":7491.866,"endTime":7494.5,"body":"years ago okay half again 50 of the time"},{"startTime":7494.5,"endTime":7499.166,"body":"since the paper was published it is my"},{"startTime":7499.166,"endTime":7503.233,"body":"job to oversee the journal and when i"},{"startTime":7503.233,"endTime":7505.333,"body":"find evidence that there has been fraud"},{"startTime":7505.333,"endTime":7507.366,"body":"in the journal from well before my time"},{"startTime":7507.366,"endTime":7510.933,"body":"uh to work hard to get that fixed but it"},{"startTime":7510.933,"endTime":7513.766,"body":"is not my personal responsibility to"},{"startTime":7513.766,"endTime":7516.199,"body":"apologize for actions that were not mine"},{"startTime":7516.199,"endTime":7518.766,"body":"i didn't i didn't know i was not involved"},{"startTime":7518.766,"endTime":7521.733,"body":"in accepting and accepting the paper"},{"startTime":7521.733,"endTime":7523.166,"body":"sending it out for peer review that"},{"startTime":7523.166,"endTime":7525.533,"body":"turned out to be wildly insufficient um"},{"startTime":7525.533,"endTime":7527.899,"body":"for knowing things that no one knew at"},{"startTime":7527.899,"endTime":7530.0,"body":"the time outside of mon santa which"},{"startTime":7530.0,"endTime":7530.866,"body":"turned out to be released"},{"startTime":7530.866,"endTime":7532.433,"body":"in court records years later"},{"startTime":7532.433,"endTime":7535.733,"body":"so i don't know why this is signed by an"},{"startTime":7535.733,"endTime":7538.033,"body":"individual editor if the journal made an"},{"startTime":7538.033,"endTime":7539.699,"body":"error the people who are running it"},{"startTime":7539.699,"endTime":7541.533,"body":"aren't the people who were there it could"},{"startTime":7541.533,"endTime":7544.066,"body":"have been done as the editorial staff"},{"startTime":7544.066,"endTime":7546.399,"body":"i mean he's he's written it in which like"},{"startTime":7546.399,"endTime":7547.899,"body":"he's saying that he's now"},{"startTime":7547.899,"endTime":7550.0,"body":"seeing these things right so"},{"startTime":7550.0,"endTime":7553.366,"body":"i i get the form but the question is if"},{"startTime":7553.366,"endTime":7555.233,"body":"this is you know a quarter century in the"},{"startTime":7555.233,"endTime":7557.533,"body":"past mistakes were made by a different"},{"startTime":7557.533,"endTime":7559.633,"body":"staff they are now trying to correct it"},{"startTime":7559.633,"endTime":7561.966,"body":"resurrect the the status of the journal"},{"startTime":7561.966,"endTime":7564.533,"body":"in the public's mind that's all well and"},{"startTime":7564.533,"endTime":7567.1,"body":"good i would do that by not hedging i"},{"startTime":7567.1,"endTime":7568.933,"body":"don't you know the fact that he's not"},{"startTime":7568.933,"endTime":7571.466,"body":"responsible for those errors is of little"},{"startTime":7571.466,"endTime":7574.3,"body":"consequence it's you know yeah if he had"},{"startTime":7574.3,"endTime":7576.233,"body":"not hedged then i would i"},{"startTime":7576.233,"endTime":7577.833,"body":"guess i would like i mean i don't think i"},{"startTime":7577.833,"endTime":7578.933,"body":"think we're gonna drive off the rest of"},{"startTime":7578.966,"endTime":7581.733,"body":"our audience but i i want to"},{"startTime":7581.733,"endTime":7583.866,"body":"know where you saw the hedge i"},{"startTime":7583.866,"endTime":7585.733,"body":"didn't let's take the one sentence i"},{"startTime":7585.733,"endTime":7587.866,"body":"remember at this moment okay the idea"},{"startTime":7587.866,"endTime":7589.833,"body":"that we don't know which parts of the"},{"startTime":7589.833,"endTime":7592.533,"body":"paper mon santa wrote the fact that mon"},{"startTime":7592.533,"endTime":7594.899,"body":"santa wrote parts of the paper and was"},{"startTime":7594.899,"endTime":7597.933,"body":"not acknowledged as an author makes this"},{"startTime":7597.933,"endTime":7600.433,"body":"fraudulent in light of the consequences"},{"startTime":7600.433,"endTime":7601.733,"body":"of being wrong about"},{"startTime":7601.733,"endTime":7605.833,"body":"toxicology it makes it dangerous the"},{"startTime":7605.833,"endTime":7607.733,"body":"lack of clarity regarding which parts of"},{"startTime":7607.733,"endTime":7609.333,"body":"the article were authored by mon santo"},{"startTime":7609.333,"endTime":7611.866,"body":"employees creates uncertainty about the"},{"startTime":7611.866,"endTime":7613.6,"body":"integrity of the conclusions drawn"},{"startTime":7613.6,"endTime":7615.866,"body":"right that's certainty but yeah"},{"startTime":7616.0,"endTime":7618.266,"body":"uncertainty about the integrity no they"},{"startTime":7618.266,"endTime":7620.966,"body":"can they they conducted a fraud and it's"},{"startTime":7620.966,"endTime":7623.266,"body":"one thing to be defrauded it's another"},{"startTime":7623.266,"endTime":7625.933,"body":"thing to hedge in the aftermath of it"},{"startTime":7625.933,"endTime":7627.233,"body":"this should just simply have been"},{"startTime":7627.233,"endTime":7628.633,"body":"retracted there there's"},{"startTime":7628.633,"endTime":7630.633,"body":"obviously ample reason i disagree"},{"startTime":7630.633,"endTime":7633.533,"body":"i think um simply retracted without any"},{"startTime":7633.533,"endTime":7636.033,"body":"of this without our ability to see any of"},{"startTime":7636.033,"endTime":7636.966,"body":"what went into it that"},{"startTime":7636.966,"endTime":7637.8,"body":"would be ridiculous they"},{"startTime":7637.8,"endTime":7639.566,"body":"can enumerate each of those things which"},{"startTime":7639.566,"endTime":7640.766,"body":"they've done without the hedging"},{"startTime":7640.766,"endTime":7643.6,"body":"there's not this isn't hedging creates"},{"startTime":7643.6,"endTime":7644.466,"body":"uncertainty about the"},{"startTime":7644.466,"endTime":7645.666,"body":"integrity of the conclusions drawn"},{"startTime":7646.333,"endTime":7649.533,"body":"creates uncertainty the conclusions drawn"},{"startTime":7649.533,"endTime":7652.833,"body":"were fraudulent there it's not creates"},{"startTime":7652.833,"endTime":7655.366,"body":"uncertainty this was a fraudulent paper"},{"startTime":7655.366,"endTime":7660.399,"body":"can we the next part assuming you don't"},{"startTime":7660.399,"endTime":7662.533,"body":"have further you want to go here i think"},{"startTime":7662.533,"endTime":7665.666,"body":"well but i think the whole thing um"},{"startTime":7665.666,"endTime":7669.933,"body":"connects let us talk about what has"},{"startTime":7669.933,"endTime":7673.3,"body":"happened in these trials in a general"},{"startTime":7673.3,"endTime":7675.133,"body":"sense what trials the trials"},{"startTime":7675.133,"endTime":7677.433,"body":"where mon santo has been sued"},{"startTime":7677.433,"endTime":7679.666,"body":"court trials legal trials the same ones"},{"startTime":7679.666,"endTime":7680.266,"body":"that reveal i thought"},{"startTime":7680.266,"endTime":7681.166,"body":"you're talking about randomized"},{"startTime":7681.166,"endTime":7684.666,"body":"no no no court trials so numerous people"},{"startTime":7684.666,"endTime":7687.066,"body":"have sued mon santo which has now been"},{"startTime":7687.066,"endTime":7690.966,"body":"purchased by bear um bear in this case"},{"startTime":7690.966,"endTime":7693.933,"body":"actually is a bit in the position of your"},{"startTime":7693.933,"endTime":7695.8,"body":"editor who apparently was not at the"},{"startTime":7695.8,"endTime":7697.566,"body":"journal at the time this fraud was"},{"startTime":7697.566,"endTime":7699.633,"body":"perpetrated on but has inherited"},{"startTime":7699.633,"endTime":7701.766,"body":"responsibility yes legal responsibility"},{"startTime":7701.766,"endTime":7703.233,"body":"although they have they have"},{"startTime":7703.233,"endTime":7704.466,"body":"plenty of sins in their past"},{"startTime":7704.466,"endTime":7707.699,"body":"wow do they wow do they but nonetheless"},{"startTime":7707.699,"endTime":7709.5,"body":"bear made a mistake it purchased mon"},{"startTime":7709.5,"endTime":7710.666,"body":"santo including all of"},{"startTime":7710.666,"endTime":7712.233,"body":"their liabilities and"},{"startTime":7712.233,"endTime":7716.1,"body":"wait also he's not my editor go on all"},{"startTime":7716.1,"endTime":7717.633,"body":"right sorry start start"},{"startTime":7717.633,"endTime":7719.033,"body":"over the the the court trials"},{"startTime":7719.033,"endTime":7722.033,"body":"okay what happens is and the first one of"},{"startTime":7722.033,"endTime":7723.899,"body":"the trials that was one was actually one"},{"startTime":7724.399,"endTime":7726.433,"body":"he was not the only lawyer but bobby"},{"startTime":7726.433,"endTime":7729.466,"body":"kennedy was one of the lawyers on the"},{"startTime":7729.466,"endTime":7733.233,"body":"initial trial in which a verdict against"},{"startTime":7733.233,"endTime":7736.033,"body":"mon santo for cancer caused by glyphosate"},{"startTime":7736.033,"endTime":7740.1,"body":"was won by a guy named dwayne johnson i"},{"startTime":7740.8,"endTime":7742.466,"body":"do we know do we know i do but i've"},{"startTime":7742.466,"endTime":7745.333,"body":"forgotten uh it was um"},{"startTime":7745.333,"endTime":7747.633,"body":"ballpark like first decade of this like"},{"startTime":7747.633,"endTime":7749.766,"body":"right after this got published or"},{"startTime":7749.766,"endTime":7754.466,"body":"uh yeah could you look it up um"},{"startTime":7754.466,"endTime":7755.833,"body":"what do i look up though i don't know"},{"startTime":7755.833,"endTime":7759.166,"body":"dwayne johnson verdict against mon santo"},{"startTime":7759.166,"endTime":7764.933,"body":"um but i want to make a point to you"},{"startTime":7764.966,"endTime":7768.866,"body":"about what's going on here so the general"},{"startTime":7768.866,"endTime":7774.066,"body":"pattern is this individuals sue mon santo"},{"startTime":7774.066,"endTime":7778.866,"body":"for injury done by glyphosate oftentimes"},{"startTime":7778.866,"endTime":7780.466,"body":"these are people who work with a lot of"},{"startTime":7780.466,"endTime":7782.433,"body":"it in an agricultural context or their"},{"startTime":7782.433,"endTime":7785.666,"body":"landscape this is 2018 2018 so"},{"startTime":7785.666,"endTime":7789.266,"body":"they sue oh wait so dwayne johnson isn't"},{"startTime":7789.266,"endTime":7790.833,"body":"the lawyer he was he was the plaintiff"},{"startTime":7790.833,"endTime":7793.1,"body":"yes the plaintiff yeah oh i remember this"},{"startTime":7793.1,"endTime":7794.433,"body":"yes non hodgkin lymphoma he"},{"startTime":7794.433,"endTime":7795.833,"body":"got a ton of money from them"},{"startTime":7795.833,"endTime":7798.166,"body":"well that's what i want to get okay he"},{"startTime":7798.166,"endTime":7799.333,"body":"got a ton of money i think"},{"startTime":7799.333,"endTime":7802.133,"body":"something like 280 million"},{"startTime":7802.133,"endTime":7804.833,"body":"dollars 39.2 million this is again just"},{"startTime":7804.833,"endTime":7807.733,"body":"first past chat gpt 39.2 million in"},{"startTime":7807.733,"endTime":7810.333,"body":"compensatory damages and 250 million in"},{"startTime":7810.333,"endTime":7812.366,"body":"punitive day except guess what the"},{"startTime":7812.366,"endTime":7814.433,"body":"punitive portion was later reduced by the"},{"startTime":7814.433,"endTime":7816.733,"body":"trial judge on appeal the final award was"},{"startTime":7816.733,"endTime":7820.266,"body":"significantly lowered 20 million to late"},{"startTime":7820.266,"endTime":7823.366,"body":"no reductions to around 78.5 and later to"},{"startTime":7823.366,"endTime":7825.733,"body":"about 20.5 after appellate decisions"},{"startTime":7825.733,"endTime":7828.733,"body":"okay so the jury looked at this guy's"},{"startTime":7828.733,"endTime":7832.133,"body":"yeah terminal cancer and awarded him 280"},{"startTime":7832.133,"endTime":7835.766,"body":"million dollars it was reduced later by"},{"startTime":7835.766,"endTime":7838.733,"body":"two successive judgments to 20 million"},{"startTime":7838.733,"endTime":7840.966,"body":"dollars he is still alive and he was"},{"startTime":7840.966,"endTime":7843.633,"body":"given two years to live um when he was"},{"startTime":7843.633,"endTime":7845.366,"body":"first diagnosed he's significantly"},{"startTime":7845.366,"endTime":7848.566,"body":"outlasted his prognosis but nonetheless"},{"startTime":7848.566,"endTime":7852.166,"body":"this pattern where a huge award is given"},{"startTime":7852.166,"endTime":7855.233,"body":"by the jury in the aftermath of one of"},{"startTime":7855.233,"endTime":7857.666,"body":"these cases and then it is later reduced"},{"startTime":7857.666,"endTime":7860.366,"body":"has been the consistent pattern with"},{"startTime":7860.366,"endTime":7863.633,"body":"judgments against monsanto now i want to"},{"startTime":7863.633,"endTime":7865.3,"body":"talk a little bit about why that is"},{"startTime":7865.3,"endTime":7869.433,"body":"is so i want to hear that but what do we"},{"startTime":7869.433,"endTime":7871.533,"body":"know about whether or not that tends to"},{"startTime":7871.533,"endTime":7873.566,"body":"be a pattern with very large punitive"},{"startTime":7873.566,"endTime":7876.166,"body":"damage awards by trials trial by jury"},{"startTime":7876.166,"endTime":7877.933,"body":"trials that are later"},{"startTime":7877.933,"endTime":7879.666,"body":"reassessed in appellate court"},{"startTime":7879.666,"endTime":7881.933,"body":"that is exactly the pattern"},{"startTime":7881.933,"endTime":7884.333,"body":"for all across all yeah"},{"startTime":7884.333,"endTime":7885.833,"body":"not just monsanto right so"},{"startTime":7885.833,"endTime":7888.166,"body":"a jury of your peers hears about what"},{"startTime":7888.166,"endTime":7891.899,"body":"some awful corporation did to you awards"},{"startTime":7891.899,"endTime":7893.966,"body":"you a huge amount of money because you're"},{"startTime":7893.966,"endTime":7896.166,"body":"in a state that has punitive damages not"},{"startTime":7896.166,"endTime":7899.233,"body":"all of them do as you will remember we"},{"startTime":7899.233,"endTime":7903.266,"body":"were limited in our ability to sue um the"},{"startTime":7903.266,"endTime":7906.033,"body":"state uh when the evergreen meltdown"},{"startTime":7906.033,"endTime":7908.366,"body":"happened and happened to us because"},{"startTime":7908.366,"endTime":7910.866,"body":"washington does not have punitive damages"},{"startTime":7910.866,"endTime":7915.533,"body":"punitive damages are designed to um"},{"startTime":7915.533,"endTime":7919.166,"body":"punish the offending entity so that it"},{"startTime":7919.166,"endTime":7922.633,"body":"will stop with the egregious behavior now"},{"startTime":7922.633,"endTime":7924.199,"body":"i'm going to argue that we do them"},{"startTime":7924.199,"endTime":7927.133,"body":"incorrectly and that there's a fix that"},{"startTime":7927.133,"endTime":7928.8,"body":"needs to happen in order for the system"},{"startTime":7928.8,"endTime":7930.533,"body":"to work but i'll get to that in a minute"},{"startTime":7930.533,"endTime":7933.066,"body":"the reason that these judgments get"},{"startTime":7933.066,"endTime":7936.1,"body":"reduced is because of the equal"},{"startTime":7936.1,"endTime":7938.466,"body":"protection clause of the 14th amendment"},{"startTime":7938.466,"endTime":7942.266,"body":"okay didn't see that coming yep you want"},{"startTime":7942.266,"endTime":7946.933,"body":"to put the uh 14th amendment up so the"},{"startTime":7946.933,"endTime":7949.833,"body":"14th amendment for those who have uh"},{"startTime":7949.833,"endTime":7952.333,"body":"forgotten which was part of"},{"startTime":7952.333,"endTime":7954.966,"body":"reconstruction and it was designed to"},{"startTime":7954.966,"endTime":7958.366,"body":"protect slaves former slaves all persons"},{"startTime":7958.366,"endTime":7960.433,"body":"born or naturalized in the united states"},{"startTime":7960.433,"endTime":7962.199,"body":"and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"},{"startTime":7962.199,"endTime":7965.466,"body":"are citizens of the united states and of"},{"startTime":7965.466,"endTime":7967.733,"body":"the state they reside no state shall make"},{"startTime":7967.733,"endTime":7970.966,"body":"or enforce any law such uh any law which"},{"startTime":7970.966,"endTime":7972.633,"body":"shall abridge the privileges or"},{"startTime":7972.633,"endTime":7974.133,"body":"immunities of citizens of the united"},{"startTime":7974.133,"endTime":7976.533,"body":"states nor shall any state deprive any"},{"startTime":7976.533,"endTime":7978.233,"body":"person of life liberty or property"},{"startTime":7978.233,"endTime":7981.366,"body":"without due process of law or deny any"},{"startTime":7981.366,"endTime":7984.5,"body":"person within its jurisdiction the equal"},{"startTime":7984.5,"endTime":7988.833,"body":"protection of the laws so we don't really"},{"startTime":7988.833,"endTime":7990.166,"body":"see monsanto in there do you"},{"startTime":7990.633,"endTime":7991.833,"body":"no and i don't remember what you said"},{"startTime":7991.833,"endTime":7993.866,"body":"about what part of the 14th amendment is"},{"startTime":7993.866,"endTime":7996.199,"body":"being used to justify the"},{"startTime":7996.199,"endTime":7999.233,"body":"minimization of jury judgments"},{"startTime":7999.233,"endTime":8001.766,"body":"it's the equal protection clause at the"},{"startTime":8001.766,"endTime":8007.0,"body":"end okay now the reason that this yeah"},{"startTime":8007.0,"endTime":8010.166,"body":"because it's preposterous okay what's"},{"startTime":8010.166,"endTime":8013.033,"body":"going on here is that corporations you'll"},{"startTime":8013.033,"endTime":8016.933,"body":"remember are um persons corporate"},{"startTime":8016.933,"endTime":8020.033,"body":"personhood a widely misunderstood"},{"startTime":8020.033,"endTime":8023.0,"body":"property the reason that corporations are"},{"startTime":8023.0,"endTime":8026.366,"body":"persons and they do need to be persons is"},{"startTime":8026.366,"endTime":8030.233,"body":"to bind them you need to have a the"},{"startTime":8030.233,"endTime":8033.433,"body":"ability of a corporation to sign a"},{"startTime":8033.433,"endTime":8035.633,"body":"contract and then to be able to enforce"},{"startTime":8035.633,"endTime":8038.1,"body":"that contract against them so that"},{"startTime":8038.1,"endTime":8041.5,"body":"personhood was designed to make them"},{"startTime":8041.5,"endTime":8044.566,"body":"persons for purposes such as contracting"},{"startTime":8044.566,"endTime":8047.233,"body":"and suing it was not designed to give"},{"startTime":8047.233,"endTime":8048.8,"body":"them the protection that"},{"startTime":8048.8,"endTime":8050.566,"body":"is granted to all citizens"},{"startTime":8051.6,"endTime":8053.933,"body":"so what's going on here is that the"},{"startTime":8053.933,"endTime":8055.333,"body":"courts have a kind of pseudo"},{"startTime":8055.333,"endTime":8059.466,"body":"sophistication in which they look at the"},{"startTime":8059.466,"endTime":8062.8,"body":"ratio between compensatory damages and"},{"startTime":8062.8,"endTime":8065.566,"body":"punitive damages and they consider things"},{"startTime":8065.566,"endTime":8067.533,"body":"above nine to one to be"},{"startTime":8067.533,"endTime":8071.699,"body":"excessive now this is insane"},{"startTime":8071.699,"endTime":8073.633,"body":"that still doesn't get you to a reduction"},{"startTime":8073.633,"endTime":8075.333,"body":"of more than an order of magnitude of"},{"startTime":8075.333,"endTime":8076.666,"body":"total damage is awarded"},{"startTime":8076.666,"endTime":8079.433,"body":"um i can't get you there myself"},{"startTime":8079.433,"endTime":8082.366,"body":"the ratio the ratio problem doesn't get"},{"startTime":8082.366,"endTime":8084.066,"body":"you anywhere close to that reduction"},{"startTime":8084.066,"endTime":8087.3,"body":"well the general property is reduction"},{"startTime":8087.3,"endTime":8090.766,"body":"based on a skewed ratio of uh"},{"startTime":8090.766,"endTime":8093.633,"body":"compensatory damages which are scaled to"},{"startTime":8093.633,"endTime":8097.166,"body":"the harm that was done to you um and the"},{"startTime":8097.166,"endTime":8101.066,"body":"punitive damages now let's talk about why"},{"startTime":8101.066,"endTime":8105.6,"body":"so uh hold on there are three things that"},{"startTime":8105.6,"endTime":8109.866,"body":"um are taken to be uh reasons to reduce"},{"startTime":8109.866,"endTime":8111.266,"body":"these verdicts one is the degree of"},{"startTime":8111.266,"endTime":8113.333,"body":"reprehensible of the defendant's contact"},{"startTime":8113.333,"endTime":8117.466,"body":"two is compensation uh uh to civil"},{"startTime":8117.466,"endTime":8119.733,"body":"criminal penalties for similar misconduct"},{"startTime":8119.733,"endTime":8123.066,"body":"so they compare to other uh penalties and"},{"startTime":8123.066,"endTime":8124.5,"body":"the ratio between compunative and"},{"startTime":8124.5,"endTime":8127.566,"body":"pensatory compensatory damages here's the"},{"startTime":8127.566,"endTime":8133.066,"body":"problem there is a general flaw in our"},{"startTime":8133.066,"endTime":8136.066,"body":"legal structure which is that penalties"},{"startTime":8136.066,"endTime":8141.133,"body":"are scaled to the offense not to the"},{"startTime":8141.133,"endTime":8144.699,"body":"capacity of the individual or the"},{"startTime":8144.699,"endTime":8148.833,"body":"corporation to endure the penalty so bill"},{"startTime":8148.833,"endTime":8153.033,"body":"gates does not suffer the same fear of"},{"startTime":8153.033,"endTime":8155.5,"body":"getting a speeding ticket that i do yeah"},{"startTime":8155.5,"endTime":8157.399,"body":"because there's no speeding ticket you"},{"startTime":8157.399,"endTime":8159.066,"body":"could give him that would make you know"},{"startTime":8159.066,"endTime":8160.933,"body":"the amount of time that he has to sit"},{"startTime":8160.933,"endTime":8162.566,"body":"there with his window rolled down is way"},{"startTime":8162.566,"endTime":8165.333,"body":"more expensive to him than any ticket he"},{"startTime":8165.333,"endTime":8166.833,"body":"could be given so there are no effective"},{"startTime":8166.833,"endTime":8168.833,"body":"speeding tickets for bill gates right in"},{"startTime":8168.833,"endTime":8171.166,"body":"fact the best thing you can do is draw"},{"startTime":8171.166,"endTime":8172.633,"body":"out the process while you've got his"},{"startTime":8172.633,"endTime":8177.533,"body":"window down that'll hurt him um right so"},{"startTime":8177.533,"endTime":8181.433,"body":"a he doesn't drive himself the juries are"},{"startTime":8181.433,"endTime":8184.633,"body":"responding to the evil done to these"},{"startTime":8184.633,"endTime":8187.266,"body":"people dwayne johnson got non-hodgkin's"},{"startTime":8187.266,"endTime":8191.033,"body":"lymphoma from uh glyphosate having not"},{"startTime":8191.033,"endTime":8192.733,"body":"been told that that was a possibility and"},{"startTime":8192.733,"endTime":8194.566,"body":"in fact being assured that it wasn't"},{"startTime":8194.566,"endTime":8197.166,"body":"right the jury was incensed by this and"},{"startTime":8197.166,"endTime":8200.033,"body":"gave him a big punitive award and then"},{"startTime":8200.033,"endTime":8201.7,"body":"the court said well that big punitive"},{"startTime":8201.7,"endTime":8205.166,"body":"award is out of scale the problem is what"},{"startTime":8205.166,"endTime":8208.266,"body":"you want punitive damages to do is to"},{"startTime":8208.266,"endTime":8210.7,"body":"alter the future behavior of the"},{"startTime":8210.7,"endTime":8214.966,"body":"offending entity you want monsanto to not"},{"startTime":8214.966,"endTime":8217.5,"body":"just simply budget for lawsuits you want"},{"startTime":8217.5,"endTime":8219.299,"body":"them to stop selling glyphosate because"},{"startTime":8219.299,"endTime":8221.633,"body":"they know it gives people cancer right"},{"startTime":8221.633,"endTime":8224.766,"body":"the award has to be large enough to do"},{"startTime":8224.766,"endTime":8227.633,"body":"that so the jury's ire is actually right"},{"startTime":8227.633,"endTime":8229.666,"body":"and the courts are wrong to be reducing"},{"startTime":8229.666,"endTime":8231.333,"body":"these things because what they do is they"},{"startTime":8231.333,"endTime":8233.066,"body":"turn it into a cost of doing business"},{"startTime":8233.066,"endTime":8235.566,"body":"but um"},{"startTime":8237.1,"endTime":8238.833,"body":"i'm curious about the larger trend that"},{"startTime":8238.833,"endTime":8240.033,"body":"you say is true which"},{"startTime":8240.033,"endTime":8241.433,"body":"is that across the board"},{"startTime":8242.466,"endTime":8244.399,"body":"you have large jury judgments being"},{"startTime":8244.399,"endTime":8245.5,"body":"reduced in appellate courts"},{"startTime":8245.533,"endTime":8249.833,"body":"yep that is uh the big guys own the"},{"startTime":8249.833,"endTime":8252.399,"body":"system and my claim is that we need a"},{"startTime":8252.399,"endTime":8255.266,"body":"wholesale rethink of this process"},{"startTime":8255.266,"endTime":8258.433,"body":"punitive damages are vitally important to"},{"startTime":8258.433,"endTime":8260.033,"body":"the system doing what it's supposed to do"},{"startTime":8260.033,"endTime":8262.233,"body":"when you it should not be a cost of doing"},{"startTime":8262.233,"endTime":8263.733,"body":"business when you cause somebody cancer"},{"startTime":8263.733,"endTime":8265.366,"body":"it should cause you to rethink whether or"},{"startTime":8265.366,"endTime":8266.633,"body":"not you can afford to have your product"},{"startTime":8266.633,"endTime":8268.799,"body":"on the market at all in order for that to"},{"startTime":8268.799,"endTime":8271.333,"body":"be true these things need to be scaled to"},{"startTime":8271.333,"endTime":8276.066,"body":"the degree of evil and the size of the"},{"startTime":8276.066,"endTime":8278.033,"body":"entity being punished right"},{"startTime":8278.033,"endTime":8280.933,"body":"and what i mean i i remember us"},{"startTime":8280.933,"endTime":8284.566,"body":"discovering uh after our lives had blown"},{"startTime":8284.566,"endTime":8286.533,"body":"up on us and evergreen had turned on us"},{"startTime":8286.533,"endTime":8288.433,"body":"uh that washington didn't have punitive"},{"startTime":8288.433,"endTime":8290.533,"body":"damages perhaps being told by our lawyers"},{"startTime":8290.533,"endTime":8291.933,"body":"who were you know very good at what they"},{"startTime":8291.933,"endTime":8293.166,"body":"did but they're like there's just not"},{"startTime":8293.166,"endTime":8297.233,"body":"much we can do yeah um i don't think that"},{"startTime":8297.233,"endTime":8298.933,"body":"either of us looked into at the time and"},{"startTime":8298.933,"endTime":8302.333,"body":"maybe you know like why do the states"},{"startTime":8302.333,"endTime":8306.833,"body":"vary so much in with regard to um the"},{"startTime":8306.833,"endTime":8310.333,"body":"ability to enact punitive damages and it"},{"startTime":8310.333,"endTime":8313.266,"body":"i would have guessed uh that historically"},{"startTime":8313.266,"endTime":8315.166,"body":"states that were tending to vote blue"},{"startTime":8315.166,"endTime":8316.666,"body":"would be more likely to have punitive"},{"startTime":8316.666,"endTime":8318.5,"body":"damages and so was surprised to find that"},{"startTime":8318.5,"endTime":8319.733,"body":"washington state had none"},{"startTime":8319.733,"endTime":8321.733,"body":"yeah i don't know what the history is"},{"startTime":8321.733,"endTime":8324.066,"body":"it's bound bound to be interesting but"},{"startTime":8324.066,"endTime":8327.166,"body":"when its corporations were dealing with"},{"startTime":8327.166,"endTime":8330.899,"body":"the 14th amendment should not apply this"},{"startTime":8330.899,"endTime":8333.533,"body":"is not the founders gave corporations"},{"startTime":8333.533,"endTime":8336.0,"body":"personhood to bind them not to enable"},{"startTime":8336.0,"endTime":8337.533,"body":"them with the rights of a citizen"},{"startTime":8337.533,"endTime":8339.766,"body":"did the founders do that yeah they did"},{"startTime":8339.766,"endTime":8341.066,"body":"because there was some because they had"},{"startTime":8341.066,"endTime":8342.533,"body":"there was some interpretation more"},{"startTime":8342.533,"endTime":8343.866,"body":"recently that got a lot of attention"},{"startTime":8343.866,"endTime":8346.799,"body":"oh it was the citizens united in the 90s"},{"startTime":8346.799,"endTime":8348.666,"body":"or something corporations right to free"},{"startTime":8348.666,"endTime":8350.766,"body":"speech is like equivalent to that of an"},{"startTime":8350.833,"endTime":8353.233,"body":"individual so it's preposterous in order"},{"startTime":8353.233,"endTime":8355.7,"body":"to make the system work a you need to"},{"startTime":8355.7,"endTime":8357.866,"body":"have punitive damages b they need not to"},{"startTime":8357.866,"endTime":8360.366,"body":"be scaled to the amount of harm i mean"},{"startTime":8360.366,"endTime":8364.566,"body":"you know the harm to monsanto needs to be"},{"startTime":8364.566,"endTime":8366.866,"body":"large enough that they don't do harm to"},{"startTime":8366.866,"endTime":8369.066,"body":"dwayne johnson in the way that they did"},{"startTime":8369.066,"endTime":8372.266,"body":"um so you need massive punitive damages"},{"startTime":8372.266,"endTime":8378.133,"body":"now it may be that some of those punitive"},{"startTime":8378.133,"endTime":8382.166,"body":"damages should not go to the person who"},{"startTime":8382.166,"endTime":8384.733,"body":"was harmed right to the extent that the"},{"startTime":8384.733,"endTime":8387.466,"body":"court awards i think part of the reason"},{"startTime":8387.466,"endTime":8391.733,"body":"that we um hiccup on this is that it's"},{"startTime":8391.733,"endTime":8394.833,"body":"not obvious if you punish monsanto at a"},{"startTime":8394.833,"endTime":8396.766,"body":"level that makes it think twice about"},{"startTime":8396.766,"endTime":8399.066,"body":"what it's doing it's not obvious that"},{"startTime":8399.066,"endTime":8401.066,"body":"that's relevant to what the person who"},{"startTime":8401.066,"endTime":8402.2,"body":"was injured the person who was injured"},{"startTime":8402.2,"endTime":8404.566,"body":"deserves some of those damages but in"},{"startTime":8404.566,"endTime":8409.433,"body":"order you know if you're it it's possible"},{"startTime":8409.433,"endTime":8411.5,"body":"that those funds should go elsewhere in"},{"startTime":8411.5,"endTime":8413.166,"body":"other words the general harm that was"},{"startTime":8413.166,"endTime":8415.5,"body":"done to the public maybe it should go"},{"startTime":8415.5,"endTime":8417.333,"body":"into a fund for other people who've been"},{"startTime":8417.333,"endTime":8419.1,"body":"harmed something like that i'm not"},{"startTime":8419.1,"endTime":8420.033,"body":"arguing all of it some"},{"startTime":8420.033,"endTime":8421.066,"body":"of the punitive damages"},{"startTime":8421.066,"endTime":8423.2,"body":"i don't i think that's i think you're"},{"startTime":8423.2,"endTime":8425.566,"body":"asking for trouble really i mean you're"},{"startTime":8425.566,"endTime":8426.366,"body":"effectively talking about"},{"startTime":8426.366,"endTime":8428.299,"body":"socializing the the damages"},{"startTime":8428.299,"endTime":8431.066,"body":"no what i'm talking about is the purpose"},{"startTime":8431.066,"endTime":8435.066,"body":"of punitive damage is is to punish and"},{"startTime":8435.066,"endTime":8437.366,"body":"and it's punitive versus what would be"},{"startTime":8437.366,"endTime":8439.066,"body":"compensatory compensatory"},{"startTime":8439.066,"endTime":8441.6,"body":"um compensated for harm"},{"startTime":8441.6,"endTime":8447.366,"body":"yeah but yeah i just that the uh the"},{"startTime":8447.366,"endTime":8450.0,"body":"strong allergic reaction to uh"},{"startTime":8450.0,"endTime":8454.633,"body":"socializing of um of funds that have been"},{"startTime":8454.633,"endTime":8457.366,"body":"earned through trial um in this case an"},{"startTime":8457.366,"endTime":8463.533,"body":"actual trial um i feel like i i don't i"},{"startTime":8463.533,"endTime":8464.733,"body":"don't think any good will come of it"},{"startTime":8464.733,"endTime":8468.933,"body":"well that's possible but my feeling is um"},{"startTime":8469.266,"endTime":8471.166,"body":"if the court's purpose is to punish"},{"startTime":8472.399,"endTime":8475.433,"body":"it is not obvious that the best way to"},{"startTime":8475.433,"endTime":8479.166,"body":"punish it is to transfer that wealth to"},{"startTime":8479.166,"endTime":8481.466,"body":"the individual who was egregiously harmed"},{"startTime":8481.466,"endTime":8483.466,"body":"in other words if you've got if dwayne"},{"startTime":8483.466,"endTime":8485.833,"body":"johnson is representative of a thousand"},{"startTime":8485.833,"endTime":8487.5,"body":"people who never sued because they"},{"startTime":8487.5,"endTime":8489.566,"body":"couldn't or uh because the their case was"},{"startTime":8489.566,"endTime":8494.399,"body":"less clear whatever it was then it's not"},{"startTime":8494.399,"endTime":8496.766,"body":"obvious that the huge windfall and mind"},{"startTime":8496.766,"endTime":8498.899,"body":"you he didn't get a huge windfall he got"},{"startTime":8498.899,"endTime":8500.799,"body":"20 million for his life being radically"},{"startTime":8500.799,"endTime":8505.233,"body":"shortened um but the huge windfall that"},{"startTime":8505.233,"endTime":8507.033,"body":"has been scaled to the size of the thing"},{"startTime":8507.033,"endTime":8508.966,"body":"that you need to punish it's not obvious"},{"startTime":8508.966,"endTime":8511.433,"body":"that that is relevant to the individual"},{"startTime":8511.433,"endTime":8513.766,"body":"who's been harmed to a certain extent he"},{"startTime":8513.766,"endTime":8516.399,"body":"he deserves to be more than made well i"},{"startTime":8516.399,"endTime":8519.766,"body":"believe but the purpose to punish has to"},{"startTime":8519.766,"endTime":8523.066,"body":"be maintained and it may be that the"},{"startTime":8523.066,"endTime":8525.166,"body":"public is actually less enthusiastic"},{"startTime":8525.166,"endTime":8527.233,"body":"about punitive damages"},{"startTime":8527.233,"endTime":8530.733,"body":"because they see it as uh a windfall"},{"startTime":8531.033,"endTime":8532.666,"body":"but i don't i don't see any evidence the"},{"startTime":8532.666,"endTime":8534.766,"body":"public is not enthusiastic about punitive"},{"startTime":8534.766,"endTime":8536.833,"body":"damages because you know you you you"},{"startTime":8536.833,"endTime":8540.733,"body":"report that jury trials keep on producing"},{"startTime":8540.733,"endTime":8543.1,"body":"these big judgments well and then it's"},{"startTime":8543.1,"endTime":8545.033,"body":"the appellate courts that reduce them"},{"startTime":8545.033,"endTime":8547.133,"body":"right you know i do wonder how it is the"},{"startTime":8547.133,"endTime":8548.666,"body":"state like washington has no punitive"},{"startTime":8548.666,"endTime":8552.166,"body":"damages at all um but i don't i don't see"},{"startTime":8552.166,"endTime":8554.666,"body":"any evidence that what you're saying is"},{"startTime":8554.666,"endTime":8557.633,"body":"true and i think the idea of um yeah"},{"startTime":8557.633,"endTime":8558.866,"body":"we're gonna let the guy who's obviously"},{"startTime":8558.866,"endTime":8560.5,"body":"harmed go to court and take all of the"},{"startTime":8560.5,"endTime":8562.266,"body":"risk and then we're gonna claw back some"},{"startTime":8562.266,"endTime":8564.233,"body":"of that for you know unspecified others"},{"startTime":8564.233,"endTime":8564.966,"body":"like that just sounds"},{"startTime":8564.966,"endTime":8566.133,"body":"like socialism and it's"},{"startTime":8566.133,"endTime":8568.866,"body":"stupidest um no i think actually the"},{"startTime":8568.866,"endTime":8570.566,"body":"pattern is the one i'm describing and it"},{"startTime":8570.566,"endTime":8572.7,"body":"makes sense because if you're in the jury"},{"startTime":8572.733,"endTime":8576.933,"body":"box and the uh prosecuting attorneys are"},{"startTime":8576.933,"endTime":8579.466,"body":"presenting you with the evidence that not"},{"startTime":8579.466,"endTime":8581.733,"body":"only did monson mon santo distribute a"},{"startTime":8581.733,"endTime":8583.433,"body":"dangerous product that it knew it was"},{"startTime":8583.433,"endTime":8585.133,"body":"dangerous that there was a discussion"},{"startTime":8585.2,"endTime":8586.966,"body":"about whether or not the public needed a"},{"startTime":8586.966,"endTime":8588.566,"body":"better warning and they decided against"},{"startTime":8588.566,"endTime":8591.166,"body":"it you know if you have that evidence in"},{"startTime":8591.166,"endTime":8594.533,"body":"front of you it incenses you that's very"},{"startTime":8594.533,"endTime":8596.433,"body":"different than the public at home reading"},{"startTime":8596.433,"endTime":8598.166,"body":"whatever they're reading that hears that"},{"startTime":8598.166,"endTime":8600.933,"body":"somebody you know got i forget what the"},{"startTime":8600.933,"endTime":8603.333,"body":"judgment was for the hot coffee that got"},{"startTime":8603.333,"endTime":8605.399,"body":"spilled in the drive-through window but"},{"startTime":8605.399,"endTime":8607.0,"body":"you're like hey wait a minute but then"},{"startTime":8607.0,"endTime":8608.233,"body":"you look at the case and you're like oh"},{"startTime":8608.233,"endTime":8611.233,"body":"actually you know once you see the"},{"startTime":8611.233,"endTime":8612.799,"body":"discussion where somebody knew that"},{"startTime":8612.799,"endTime":8614.366,"body":"somebody was going to get scalded and"},{"startTime":8614.366,"endTime":8617.333,"body":"decided that's fine you know how how bad"},{"startTime":8617.333,"endTime":8620.466,"body":"could it possibly be um you understand"},{"startTime":8620.466,"endTime":8622.733,"body":"why these why these punitive damages are"},{"startTime":8622.733,"endTime":8624.066,"body":"there in the first place but the public"},{"startTime":8624.066,"endTime":8625.166,"body":"in general doesn't they"},{"startTime":8625.166,"endTime":8627.1,"body":"hear these giant numbers and"},{"startTime":8627.1,"endTime":8630.6,"body":"uh there's well i mean so i don't i don't"},{"startTime":8630.6,"endTime":8632.166,"body":"know the legal system at all it's an"},{"startTime":8632.166,"endTime":8634.033,"body":"entirely social construct it's entirely"},{"startTime":8634.033,"endTime":8635.766,"body":"human construct and so not being able to"},{"startTime":8635.766,"endTime":8637.333,"body":"derive anything from first principles i"},{"startTime":8637.333,"endTime":8638.933,"body":"don't i only know what i know and it's"},{"startTime":8638.933,"endTime":8641.833,"body":"not much um and you are proposing you are"},{"startTime":8641.833,"endTime":8645.066,"body":"you are noting a problem uh which you say"},{"startTime":8645.066,"endTime":8647.2,"body":"is widespread not limited to things like"},{"startTime":8647.266,"endTime":8650.133,"body":"the mon santo judgments in which uh"},{"startTime":8650.133,"endTime":8652.399,"body":"juries of one's peers come down with"},{"startTime":8652.399,"endTime":8654.5,"body":"large amounts of punitive damages and"},{"startTime":8654.5,"endTime":8656.6,"body":"later on those get reduced substantially"},{"startTime":8656.6,"endTime":8659.466,"body":"by appellate courts that is a problem um"},{"startTime":8659.466,"endTime":8661.766,"body":"that you know probably also the media"},{"startTime":8661.766,"endTime":8664.2,"body":"follow-up on the reductions is much less"},{"startTime":8664.2,"endTime":8666.366,"body":"than the than the original yep than the"},{"startTime":8666.366,"endTime":8667.633,"body":"original and so people don't even"},{"startTime":8667.633,"endTime":8669.933,"body":"recognize that actually mon santo wasn't"},{"startTime":8669.933,"endTime":8672.166,"body":"really slapped um you know hardly it was"},{"startTime":8672.166,"endTime":8675.399,"body":"like a mosquito at their at their"},{"startTime":8675.399,"endTime":8677.399,"body":"foreheads as opposed to a major problem"},{"startTime":8677.399,"endTime":8684.266,"body":"um so something i have no idea what um is"},{"startTime":8684.266,"endTime":8685.966,"body":"you know something is a miss there and"},{"startTime":8685.966,"endTime":8688.366,"body":"how might you solve it i don't know i"},{"startTime":8688.366,"endTime":8690.566,"body":"think you are proposing that there is"},{"startTime":8690.566,"endTime":8692.5,"body":"another problem i don't yet see that"},{"startTime":8692.5,"endTime":8694.833,"body":"there is that problem maybe there is that"},{"startTime":8694.833,"endTime":8697.666,"body":"the public uh gets a little squirrely"},{"startTime":8697.666,"endTime":8699.833,"body":"about the idea of large punitive damages"},{"startTime":8699.833,"endTime":8704.266,"body":"delivered to individuals um there's a"},{"startTime":8704.266,"endTime":8706.133,"body":"problem that you see i don't know that"},{"startTime":8706.133,"endTime":8707.633,"body":"there's a problem and you proposed"},{"startTime":8707.633,"endTime":8710.1,"body":"something of a solution that is kind of"},{"startTime":8710.1,"endTime":8713.566,"body":"vague and i feel very concerned about the"},{"startTime":8713.566,"endTime":8714.6,"body":"solution being proposed"},{"startTime":8714.6,"endTime":8718.0,"body":"okay i have proposed a solution it's not"},{"startTime":8718.0,"endTime":8720.0,"body":"vague you're concerned what's the one"},{"startTime":8720.0,"endTime":8723.2,"body":"nuance of the solution the solution is we"},{"startTime":8723.2,"endTime":8726.033,"body":"have to fix the belief that the 14th"},{"startTime":8726.033,"endTime":8730.366,"body":"amendment protects corporations um from"},{"startTime":8730.366,"endTime":8734.333,"body":"egregious no but the hold on um so we"},{"startTime":8734.333,"endTime":8737.2,"body":"need to have punitive damages scaled to"},{"startTime":8737.2,"endTime":8739.799,"body":"the size of the entity that has engaged"},{"startTime":8739.799,"endTime":8742.733,"body":"in this bad behavior and they have to not"},{"startTime":8742.733,"endTime":8745.833,"body":"be protected by the 14th amendment in"},{"startTime":8745.833,"endTime":8748.066,"body":"this way that's illogical right it was"},{"startTime":8748.066,"endTime":8750.033,"body":"not designed to protect corporations in"},{"startTime":8750.033,"endTime":8752.733,"body":"this way so we need large punitive"},{"startTime":8752.733,"endTime":8756.066,"body":"damages uh and we need corporations not"},{"startTime":8756.066,"endTime":8759.766,"body":"to be immunized by the 14th amendment"},{"startTime":8759.766,"endTime":8761.299,"body":"because it's illogical and"},{"startTime":8761.299,"endTime":8762.766,"body":"so the justification by the appellate"},{"startTime":8762.766,"endTime":8764.666,"body":"courts comes back to the 14th amendment"},{"startTime":8764.666,"endTime":8765.633,"body":"yeah after these times yeah"},{"startTime":8765.633,"endTime":8767.666,"body":"the equal protection clause so that's"},{"startTime":8767.666,"endTime":8771.633,"body":"just uh well i think the answer is it's"},{"startTime":8771.633,"endTime":8773.966,"body":"obvious what this does when you have"},{"startTime":8773.966,"endTime":8776.866,"body":"these massive judgments reduced uh on"},{"startTime":8776.866,"endTime":8782.266,"body":"appeal what it does is it has bear the"},{"startTime":8782.266,"endTime":8785.6,"body":"owner of mon santo uh which has suffered"},{"startTime":8785.6,"endTime":8789.533,"body":"substantial loss in its valuation uh"},{"startTime":8789.533,"endTime":8791.533,"body":"after buying mon santo because these"},{"startTime":8791.533,"endTime":8793.133,"body":"judgments are mounting and it's looking"},{"startTime":8793.133,"endTime":8795.0,"body":"for relief from the federal government"},{"startTime":8795.0,"endTime":8797.133,"body":"wants to be freed from responsibility"},{"startTime":8797.133,"endTime":8799.866,"body":"it's still selling the stuff right so"},{"startTime":8799.866,"endTime":8801.966,"body":"here's my point you don't want that"},{"startTime":8801.966,"endTime":8805.633,"body":"liability stop creating new victims it's"},{"startTime":8805.633,"endTime":8807.933,"body":"obvious and what do we know about the"},{"startTime":8807.933,"endTime":8809.666,"body":"judgments that were ultimately handed"},{"startTime":8809.666,"endTime":8811.366,"body":"down they weren't big enough you're still"},{"startTime":8811.366,"endTime":8813.2,"body":"selling the stuff yeah right so"},{"startTime":8813.2,"endTime":8815.833,"body":"and they're probably still developing i"},{"startTime":8815.833,"endTime":8817.533,"body":"don't know but my guess is that they're"},{"startTime":8817.533,"endTime":8818.833,"body":"also still developing the round up ready"},{"startTime":8818.833,"endTime":8821.566,"body":"crops um which are you know the crops"},{"startTime":8821.566,"endTime":8824.1,"body":"that are particularly resistant um"},{"startTime":8824.1,"endTime":8826.666,"body":"which then use tons of the stuff which"},{"startTime":8826.666,"endTime":8827.733,"body":"puts the very people"},{"startTime":8827.733,"endTime":8828.666,"body":"the idea of a roundup"},{"startTime":8828.666,"endTime":8830.333,"body":"ready means bring it on yeah"},{"startTime":8830.333,"endTime":8831.799,"body":"it means that you can afford to drench"},{"startTime":8831.799,"endTime":8833.633,"body":"the crop in the stuff they're also"},{"startTime":8833.633,"endTime":8836.266,"body":"developing this insane use where they use"},{"startTime":8836.266,"endTime":8839.066,"body":"it to desiccate crops right before"},{"startTime":8839.066,"endTime":8840.899,"body":"harvest which means that people ingest a"},{"startTime":8840.899,"endTime":8842.566,"body":"lot more of it so the point is the bad"},{"startTime":8842.566,"endTime":8845.799,"body":"behavior continues unabated these"},{"startTime":8845.799,"endTime":8848.666,"body":"judgments need to be bigger not smaller"},{"startTime":8848.799,"endTime":8850.766,"body":"right reducing them has left this"},{"startTime":8850.766,"endTime":8854.166,"body":"behavior in place and so this does for me"},{"startTime":8854.166,"endTime":8856.799,"body":"connect back to you know the journal in"},{"startTime":8856.799,"endTime":8858.766,"body":"my opinion i know it's not yours but in"},{"startTime":8858.766,"endTime":8860.866,"body":"my opinion covering its ass here my"},{"startTime":8860.866,"endTime":8862.966,"body":"feeling is this stuff's got to hurt way"},{"startTime":8862.966,"endTime":8865.233,"body":"more if it's going to stop that's my"},{"startTime":8865.233,"endTime":8866.933,"body":"point it's got to hurt way more the"},{"startTime":8866.933,"endTime":8868.7,"body":"natural level at which it needs to hurt"},{"startTime":8868.7,"endTime":8870.533,"body":"has to be more if we're going to get"},{"startTime":8870.533,"endTime":8873.733,"body":"people to stand up and block bad papers"},{"startTime":8873.733,"endTime":8875.666,"body":"or retract them quickly once they find"},{"startTime":8875.666,"endTime":8877.733,"body":"out that they've been had which is what"},{"startTime":8877.733,"endTime":8879.366,"body":"we need in the public that's"},{"startTime":8879.366,"endTime":8880.399,"body":"what that's what we're owed"},{"startTime":8880.399,"endTime":8886.0,"body":"well given that this this particular"},{"startTime":8886.0,"endTime":8887.733,"body":"bonsanta lawsuit that you've"},{"startTime":8887.733,"endTime":8890.033,"body":"been talking about was from 2018"},{"startTime":8891.133,"endTime":8893.733,"body":"yes that's some years ago but it's not"},{"startTime":8893.733,"endTime":8897.233,"body":"it's it's a small fraction of the time"},{"startTime":8897.233,"endTime":8899.466,"body":"that has passed since this paper was"},{"startTime":8899.466,"endTime":8902.399,"body":"published and you know i don't i don't i"},{"startTime":8902.399,"endTime":8904.633,"body":"don't know when the rest of the reasons"},{"startTime":8904.799,"endTime":8906.766,"body":"that the paper is being retracted were"},{"startTime":8906.766,"endTime":8910.033,"body":"came to be understood my guess is"},{"startTime":8912.333,"endTime":8914.0,"body":"and this is not how journals should work"},{"startTime":8914.0,"endTime":8915.966,"body":"but that it was you know no one's job"},{"startTime":8915.966,"endTime":8917.566,"body":"once it had been accepted and published"},{"startTime":8917.566,"endTime":8919.533,"body":"to go back and continue to you know"},{"startTime":8919.533,"endTime":8922.566,"body":"relitigate as it were um the paper and so"},{"startTime":8922.966,"endTime":8925.0,"body":"only at the point that these big lawsuits"},{"startTime":8925.0,"endTime":8928.433,"body":"started happening did uh anyone at the"},{"startTime":8928.433,"endTime":8930.466,"body":"journal start to think now wait a minute"},{"startTime":8930.466,"endTime":8932.466,"body":"i don't think that's true for the"},{"startTime":8932.466,"endTime":8935.466,"body":"following reason do we agree that i don't"},{"startTime":8935.466,"endTime":8937.866,"body":"remember was it eight enumerated reasons"},{"startTime":8937.866,"endTime":8939.266,"body":"yeah but although one"},{"startTime":8939.266,"endTime":8940.533,"body":"of them was concluding so"},{"startTime":8940.566,"endTime":8944.299,"body":"okay um i think each of them was"},{"startTime":8944.299,"endTime":8945.866,"body":"sufficient on its own"},{"startTime":8945.866,"endTime":8948.433,"body":"does that seem right to you"},{"startTime":8948.433,"endTime":8949.066,"body":"yeah although"},{"startTime":8950.166,"endTime":8954.0,"body":"honestly only one of them i i think i can"},{"startTime":8954.0,"endTime":8955.066,"body":"go back but um only"},{"startTime":8955.066,"endTime":8957.066,"body":"one of them was about the"},{"startTime":8958.066,"endTime":8959.866,"body":"the one that seems the most substantive"},{"startTime":8959.866,"endTime":8962.133,"body":"and obvious to explain to anyone who"},{"startTime":8962.133,"endTime":8963.366,"body":"whether or not they have any background"},{"startTime":8963.366,"endTime":8966.133,"body":"in academia is this is a review paper"},{"startTime":8966.133,"endTime":8968.1,"body":"review papers review what's known bingo"},{"startTime":8968.1,"endTime":8971.066,"body":"dude well how how is this helpful this is"},{"startTime":8971.066,"endTime":8972.866,"body":"what i'm saying is that if they never"},{"startTime":8972.866,"endTime":8974.933,"body":"went back to it let me just finish the"},{"startTime":8974.933,"endTime":8977.5,"body":"thought yeah go ahead if if the i think"},{"startTime":8977.5,"endTime":8980.533,"body":"that the only one of the eight points um"},{"startTime":8980.533,"endTime":8982.566,"body":"that is likely to have been knowable"},{"startTime":8982.566,"endTime":8984.666,"body":"outside of the context of the court cases"},{"startTime":8984.666,"endTime":8988.533,"body":"is that a review paper is expected is"},{"startTime":8988.533,"endTime":8990.866,"body":"required to review all that is known and"},{"startTime":8990.866,"endTime":8992.5,"body":"in fact it did not review all that was"},{"startTime":8992.5,"endTime":8994.266,"body":"known and in fact only reviewed that"},{"startTime":8994.266,"endTime":8997.566,"body":"which was uh cryptically or not so"},{"startTime":8997.566,"endTime":8999.033,"body":"cryptically out of montanto in the first"},{"startTime":8999.033,"endTime":9000.566,"body":"place it was never a review paper in the"},{"startTime":9000.566,"endTime":9002.166,"body":"first place that should have been caught"},{"startTime":9002.166,"endTime":9003.5,"body":"in peer review that should have been"},{"startTime":9003.5,"endTime":9004.966,"body":"caught by the editors in the first place"},{"startTime":9004.966,"endTime":9008.733,"body":"etc etc but journals are not in the"},{"startTime":9008.733,"endTime":9010.666,"body":"business of once they've decided to"},{"startTime":9010.666,"endTime":9013.233,"body":"accept and publish a paper continuing to"},{"startTime":9013.233,"endTime":9014.7,"body":"go back and be like now did we make the"},{"startTime":9014.7,"endTime":9015.933,"body":"right decision like that's not what"},{"startTime":9015.933,"endTime":9017.6,"body":"that's not what journals do well so i"},{"startTime":9017.6,"endTime":9020.466,"body":"don't i just i don't look i am not"},{"startTime":9020.466,"endTime":9022.933,"body":"pleased that this paper has sat for 25"},{"startTime":9022.933,"endTime":9027.966,"body":"years um allowing allowing actual"},{"startTime":9027.966,"endTime":9030.933,"body":"grifters and fraudsters to poison an"},{"startTime":9030.933,"endTime":9034.666,"body":"entire planet with this garbage yep but i"},{"startTime":9034.666,"endTime":9036.799,"body":"don't think that you can hold a journal"},{"startTime":9036.799,"endTime":9039.6,"body":"to a standard of constantly reassessing"},{"startTime":9039.6,"endTime":9041.033,"body":"everything that it has already published"},{"startTime":9041.033,"endTime":9042.833,"body":"no that is an unreasonable standard"},{"startTime":9042.833,"endTime":9046.366,"body":"no uh this this was exactly my point i'm"},{"startTime":9046.366,"endTime":9048.366,"body":"sorry i said bingo but this is why i said"},{"startTime":9048.366,"endTime":9051.933,"body":"it they will have known almost"},{"startTime":9051.933,"endTime":9054.633,"body":"immediately that they screwed up and that"},{"startTime":9054.633,"endTime":9056.7,"body":"this review paper was no such thing"},{"startTime":9056.7,"endTime":9057.833,"body":"no they will not have"},{"startTime":9057.833,"endTime":9060.1,"body":"you don't think they got a slew of"},{"startTime":9060.1,"endTime":9062.066,"body":"correspondence people saying hey wait a"},{"startTime":9062.066,"endTime":9064.733,"body":"minute you missed these 16 papers this is"},{"startTime":9064.733,"endTime":9065.833,"body":"a review article and it"},{"startTime":9065.833,"endTime":9066.933,"body":"doesn't cover these 16"},{"startTime":9066.966,"endTime":9069.433,"body":"papers hey i don't think there were 16 i"},{"startTime":9069.433,"endTime":9072.666,"body":"think there were a a couple okay and no i"},{"startTime":9072.666,"endTime":9074.766,"body":"don't actually and you know if they did"},{"startTime":9074.766,"endTime":9075.833,"body":"then that's a different"},{"startTime":9075.833,"endTime":9077.633,"body":"situation and we will never know"},{"startTime":9077.633,"endTime":9081.6,"body":"well so we don't know we don't know but i"},{"startTime":9081.6,"endTime":9084.333,"body":"would say the contentiousness of the"},{"startTime":9084.333,"endTime":9086.933,"body":"safety of glyphosate has been such and"},{"startTime":9086.933,"endTime":9089.166,"body":"they in fact mention in their concerns"},{"startTime":9089.166,"endTime":9091.899,"body":"continue to have been raised i would"},{"startTime":9091.899,"endTime":9094.2,"body":"would bet that that was immediately"},{"startTime":9094.2,"endTime":9095.966,"body":"called to their attention and that that"},{"startTime":9095.966,"endTime":9097.866,"body":"is their responsibility as a journal the"},{"startTime":9097.866,"endTime":9100.0,"body":"journal screwed up in this case we"},{"startTime":9100.0,"endTime":9102.466,"body":"published a review that wasn't one that"},{"startTime":9102.466,"endTime":9104.533,"body":"missed important evidence that everybody"},{"startTime":9104.533,"endTime":9109.0,"body":"knew was in the literature so uh even"},{"startTime":9109.0,"endTime":9111.133,"body":"though 2018 is the first judgment"},{"startTime":9111.133,"endTime":9113.266,"body":"successful against monsanto it's not"},{"startTime":9113.266,"endTime":9114.766,"body":"obvious that that's where the discovery"},{"startTime":9114.766,"endTime":9116.0,"body":"would have happened because it wasn't the"},{"startTime":9116.0,"endTime":9119.633,"body":"first trial against monsanto but even if"},{"startTime":9119.633,"endTime":9121.333,"body":"that were the case we only find out but"},{"startTime":9121.333,"endTime":9124.033,"body":"is discovery inherently um a matter of"},{"startTime":9124.033,"endTime":9128.833,"body":"public record i don't think so no and you"},{"startTime":9128.833,"endTime":9131.133,"body":"have to you have to know to make a FOIA"},{"startTime":9131.133,"endTime":9133.033,"body":"request or whatever the appropriate"},{"startTime":9133.033,"endTime":9134.166,"body":"request is in the first place like"},{"startTime":9134.166,"endTime":9135.433,"body":"there's just a lot of"},{"startTime":9135.433,"endTime":9137.166,"body":"there's a lot of contingencies"},{"startTime":9137.166,"endTime":9139.133,"body":"well i agree and i and we don't know that"},{"startTime":9139.133,"endTime":9140.833,"body":"history you and i don't know it"},{"startTime":9140.833,"endTime":9144.266,"body":"presumably somebody does yeah um but the"},{"startTime":9144.266,"endTime":9145.766,"body":"journal published a paper about"},{"startTime":9145.766,"endTime":9147.966,"body":"toxicology of a product that was being"},{"startTime":9147.966,"endTime":9151.733,"body":"used widely in the world that review"},{"startTime":9151.733,"endTime":9153.833,"body":"article was not a review article i think"},{"startTime":9153.833,"endTime":9156.266,"body":"they will have known that quickly um"},{"startTime":9156.266,"endTime":9157.966,"body":"but that's but that's your opinion we"},{"startTime":9157.966,"endTime":9160.866,"body":"don't so it's my guess fine but you can't"},{"startTime":9160.866,"endTime":9162.899,"body":"like that's that that's not a basis on"},{"startTime":9162.899,"endTime":9165.433,"body":"which to to formulate the argument that"},{"startTime":9165.433,"endTime":9167.366,"body":"they were being irresponsible"},{"startTime":9167.366,"endTime":9171.766,"body":"um it's contingent if i am right that"},{"startTime":9171.766,"endTime":9173.166,"body":"they will have known quickly that they"},{"startTime":9173.166,"endTime":9175.033,"body":"published a review that was not a review"},{"startTime":9175.033,"endTime":9177.466,"body":"they should have retracted it earlier yes"},{"startTime":9177.466,"endTime":9179.233,"body":"i agree there's lots of stuff published"},{"startTime":9179.233,"endTime":9180.866,"body":"that they can't go back and reinvestigate"},{"startTime":9180.866,"endTime":9183.5,"body":"and the place to discover that is in"},{"startTime":9183.5,"endTime":9185.633,"body":"future articles that say you know this"},{"startTime":9185.633,"endTime":9187.866,"body":"experiment was done poorly here's what it"},{"startTime":9187.866,"endTime":9190.1,"body":"missed but a review article is different"},{"startTime":9190.1,"endTime":9192.433,"body":"a review article that doesn't review uh"},{"startTime":9192.433,"endTime":9196.799,"body":"and you know becomes the cited article is"},{"startTime":9196.799,"endTime":9198.333,"body":"a hazard in its own right"},{"startTime":9198.333,"endTime":9201.333,"body":"yeah and you know among"},{"startTime":9201.333,"endTime":9202.799,"body":"other things i did not"},{"startTime":9204.233,"endTime":9207.766,"body":"look at uh so it's an elsevere journal"},{"startTime":9207.766,"endTime":9209.733,"body":"which is the you know major academic"},{"startTime":9209.733,"endTime":9212.566,"body":"publisher but i did not look into"},{"startTime":9212.566,"endTime":9217.066,"body":"anything about their history you know who"},{"startTime":9217.066,"endTime":9219.299,"body":"who has been known to support them"},{"startTime":9219.766,"endTime":9222.899,"body":"elsevere is is giant and predatory in its"},{"startTime":9222.899,"endTime":9225.866,"body":"own its own different way but regulatory"},{"startTime":9225.866,"endTime":9227.899,"body":"toxicology and pharmacology already"},{"startTime":9227.899,"endTime":9229.566,"body":"sounds like it's you know it's not a"},{"startTime":9229.566,"endTime":9230.899,"body":"basic science journal it's an applied"},{"startTime":9230.899,"endTime":9233.833,"body":"science journal um and and we don't know"},{"startTime":9233.833,"endTime":9235.966,"body":"like we can we can guess but i'm i'm not"},{"startTime":9235.966,"endTime":9238.933,"body":"prepared to um claim that the journal has"},{"startTime":9238.933,"endTime":9245.533,"body":"been uh grossly uh in gross negligence of"},{"startTime":9245.533,"endTime":9246.899,"body":"what it should have been doing based on"},{"startTime":9246.899,"endTime":9248.433,"body":"some um suppositions"},{"startTime":9248.433,"endTime":9250.066,"body":"about what they knew when"},{"startTime":9250.066,"endTime":9254.266,"body":"fair enough um i would say that what we"},{"startTime":9254.266,"endTime":9257.799,"body":"have learned about medical journals and"},{"startTime":9257.799,"endTime":9260.266,"body":"the degree to which what is in them is"},{"startTime":9260.266,"endTime":9265.166,"body":"thoroughly compromised by pharma um it's"},{"startTime":9265.166,"endTime":9266.866,"body":"hard to see why this would be any"},{"startTime":9266.866,"endTime":9268.833,"body":"different you know there's tremendous"},{"startTime":9268.833,"endTime":9271.533,"body":"amount of money to be made in uh"},{"startTime":9271.533,"endTime":9273.899,"body":"toxicology for obvious reasons people are"},{"startTime":9273.899,"endTime":9277.066,"body":"putting stuff into the world and um you"},{"startTime":9277.066,"endTime":9280.1,"body":"know there's lots of reasons to want your"},{"startTime":9280.1,"endTime":9281.366,"body":"competitor's product to look more"},{"startTime":9281.366,"endTime":9283.366,"body":"dangerous than it is to make your product"},{"startTime":9283.366,"endTime":9284.833,"body":"look safer so i wouldn't"},{"startTime":9284.833,"endTime":9286.733,"body":"expect it's any purer than that"},{"startTime":9286.733,"endTime":9288.866,"body":"on their site um and you can show my"},{"startTime":9288.866,"endTime":9291.7,"body":"screen here um one interesting thing i"},{"startTime":9291.7,"endTime":9293.033,"body":"find and you know we've begun to talk"},{"startTime":9293.033,"endTime":9294.133,"body":"about this a little bit privately i don't"},{"startTime":9294.133,"endTime":9295.366,"body":"think we've said anything publicly but"},{"startTime":9295.366,"endTime":9299.166,"body":"it's it's amazing what becomes known and"},{"startTime":9299.166,"endTime":9302.333,"body":"becomes a focus of human concern and so"},{"startTime":9302.333,"endTime":9305.0,"body":"you know aims and scope is is the page"},{"startTime":9305.0,"endTime":9306.966,"body":"i'm at for the you know the elsevere"},{"startTime":9306.966,"endTime":9308.933,"body":"journal regulatory toxicology and"},{"startTime":9308.933,"endTime":9310.833,"body":"pharmacology which published this article"},{"startTime":9310.833,"endTime":9312.966,"body":"establishing the safety of glyphosate in"},{"startTime":9312.966,"endTime":9316.433,"body":"2000 is now attracted this year um they"},{"startTime":9316.433,"endTime":9317.966,"body":"describe what they are and it's sort of"},{"startTime":9317.966,"endTime":9319.233,"body":"you know as you would expect you know"},{"startTime":9319.233,"endTime":9321.333,"body":"it's it's it's an applied journal science"},{"startTime":9321.333,"endTime":9323.033,"body":"here's the types of peer-reviewed"},{"startTime":9323.033,"endTime":9324.866,"body":"articles published original research"},{"startTime":9324.866,"endTime":9329.566,"body":"articles also um news regulatory"},{"startTime":9329.566,"endTime":9331.1,"body":"toxicology and pharmacology the last"},{"startTime":9331.1,"endTime":9334.366,"body":"thing on the aims and scope page is rtp"},{"startTime":9334.366,"endTime":9337.533,"body":"tobacco policy regulatory toxicology and"},{"startTime":9337.533,"endTime":9339.133,"body":"pharmacology as the journal serving"},{"startTime":9339.133,"endTime":9340.733,"body":"developments for improvement of human"},{"startTime":9340.733,"endTime":9342.766,"body":"health and environment will not consider"},{"startTime":9342.899,"endTime":9344.533,"body":"manuscripts that have been supported by"},{"startTime":9344.533,"endTime":9352.0,"body":"tobacco companies now cool i guess but"},{"startTime":9352.0,"endTime":9355.866,"body":"you know nicotine is the enemy like i"},{"startTime":9355.866,"endTime":9357.933,"body":"don't know that it's good for you i don't"},{"startTime":9357.933,"endTime":9360.233,"body":"know that it's helping people i you know"},{"startTime":9360.233,"endTime":9363.166,"body":"it might it but there's a lot"},{"startTime":9363.166,"endTime":9364.466,"body":"that's where they're gonna draw that's"},{"startTime":9364.466,"endTime":9365.6,"body":"where they're drawing the line because"},{"startTime":9365.6,"endTime":9369.366,"body":"somehow we all accepted i think after you"},{"startTime":9369.366,"endTime":9371.333,"body":"know court cases really before you and i"},{"startTime":9371.333,"endTime":9373.966,"body":"were conscious um or you know maybe you"},{"startTime":9373.966,"endTime":9375.5,"body":"were conscious of them but you know"},{"startTime":9375.5,"endTime":9378.233,"body":"everyone came to accept that smoking is"},{"startTime":9378.233,"endTime":9380.366,"body":"bad for you yeah smoking cigarettes is"},{"startTime":9380.366,"endTime":9384.366,"body":"bad for you um i don't even know to what"},{"startTime":9384.366,"endTime":9388.233,"body":"degree that research is absolutely well"},{"startTime":9388.233,"endTime":9391.933,"body":"vetted uh at this point but the idea that"},{"startTime":9391.966,"endTime":9394.366,"body":"tobacco is the one tobacco company is the"},{"startTime":9394.366,"endTime":9397.633,"body":"one named type of company that cannot be"},{"startTime":9397.633,"endTime":9401.133,"body":"involved uh in any way in papers that are"},{"startTime":9401.133,"endTime":9403.066,"body":"submitted here like if you if you say"},{"startTime":9403.066,"endTime":9404.933,"body":"that you received funding from nih and"},{"startTime":9404.933,"endTime":9407.0,"body":"the dod and you know the bill milena"},{"startTime":9407.0,"endTime":9408.433,"body":"gates foundation whatever it's called now"},{"startTime":9408.733,"endTime":9410.833,"body":"and um you know philip morris then you're"},{"startTime":9410.833,"endTime":9414.466,"body":"out but if it was merc and monsanto and"},{"startTime":9414.466,"endTime":9416.399,"body":"you know well then well then it's okay"},{"startTime":9416.399,"endTime":9418.0,"body":"it's actually fun and the bill milena"},{"startTime":9418.0,"endTime":9419.833,"body":"gates foundation and you know the welcome"},{"startTime":9419.933,"endTime":9420.766,"body":"fund or the welcome"},{"startTime":9420.766,"endTime":9421.866,"body":"trust whatever it's called"},{"startTime":9421.866,"endTime":9424.866,"body":"i have now forgotten uh you remember the"},{"startTime":9424.866,"endTime":9427.633,"body":"film uh thank you for smoking um in which"},{"startTime":9427.633,"endTime":9429.733,"body":"it was the film in which i at least"},{"startTime":9429.733,"endTime":9431.166,"body":"became aware that there was a bobby"},{"startTime":9431.166,"endTime":9432.6,"body":"kennedy junior i did not know that"},{"startTime":9432.6,"endTime":9435.033,"body":"beforehand that he is uh the he is"},{"startTime":9435.033,"endTime":9437.066,"body":"portrayed in the film as the sort of"},{"startTime":9437.066,"endTime":9440.133,"body":"protagonist um because of his work in"},{"startTime":9440.133,"endTime":9445.399,"body":"this uh in this area tobacco is the one"},{"startTime":9445.399,"endTime":9448.233,"body":"corporate entity that just lost this"},{"startTime":9448.233,"endTime":9451.366,"body":"battle yeah right and it's like okay fine"},{"startTime":9451.366,"endTime":9453.266,"body":"yeah these things suck they're bad for"},{"startTime":9453.266,"endTime":9456.0,"body":"you we all we admit it um"},{"startTime":9456.0,"endTime":9457.033,"body":"but uh you're hooked"},{"startTime":9457.033,"endTime":9459.033,"body":"right but the point is that's the one"},{"startTime":9459.033,"endTime":9461.233,"body":"that they're gonna forbid is bizarre"},{"startTime":9461.233,"endTime":9462.5,"body":"given the number of things that are"},{"startTime":9462.5,"endTime":9464.933,"body":"actually harmful and the and you know"},{"startTime":9464.933,"endTime":9466.5,"body":"that's the one where it doesn't really"},{"startTime":9466.5,"endTime":9468.033,"body":"matter because as you point out we all"},{"startTime":9468.033,"endTime":9470.233,"body":"accept it right right it doesn't matter"},{"startTime":9470.233,"endTime":9472.866,"body":"what the toxicology says we all right or"},{"startTime":9472.866,"endTime":9474.966,"body":"wrong accept the harms of this of this"},{"startTime":9474.966,"endTime":9477.0,"body":"one particular product it's the harms"},{"startTime":9477.0,"endTime":9478.633,"body":"that we don't yet accept which are the"},{"startTime":9478.633,"endTime":9480.2,"body":"ones that it's really important that this"},{"startTime":9480.2,"endTime":9482.399,"body":"journal get right and uh"},{"startTime":9482.399,"endTime":9484.733,"body":"they're uh mom about it"},{"startTime":9484.733,"endTime":9487.399,"body":"yeah and you know and they and part of"},{"startTime":9487.399,"endTime":9490.166,"body":"what they say here is that this is the"},{"startTime":9490.166,"endTime":9491.833,"body":"journal serving developments for"},{"startTime":9491.833,"endTime":9493.133,"body":"improvement of human health and"},{"startTime":9493.133,"endTime":9495.899,"body":"environment which you know means this"},{"startTime":9495.899,"endTime":9498.533,"body":"attraction never should have been"},{"startTime":9498.533,"endTime":9501.333,"body":"necessary yeah right because the paper"},{"startTime":9501.333,"endTime":9502.833,"body":"never should have been published in the"},{"startTime":9502.833,"endTime":9504.166,"body":"first place because it was neither a"},{"startTime":9504.166,"endTime":9508.033,"body":"review paper nor written by the people um"},{"startTime":9508.033,"endTime":9511.566,"body":"that were claimed as authors and it had"},{"startTime":9511.566,"endTime":9515.899,"body":"um direct and intensive uh contributions"},{"startTime":9515.899,"endTime":9518.533,"body":"from the very company that makes the"},{"startTime":9518.533,"endTime":9520.033,"body":"product that was supposedly being"},{"startTime":9520.033,"endTime":9522.866,"body":"assessed totally yeah"},{"startTime":9522.866,"endTime":9526.1,"body":"now we could stop there"},{"startTime":9527.266,"endTime":9529.333,"body":"or we could uh we had a couple other"},{"startTime":9529.333,"endTime":9530.466,"body":"things that we were thinking about doing"},{"startTime":9530.466,"endTime":9531.433,"body":"we could save them both"},{"startTime":9531.433,"endTime":9534.799,"body":"um actually maybe maybe we we uh save"},{"startTime":9534.799,"endTime":9539.233,"body":"them um yeah yeah the the other one we"},{"startTime":9539.233,"endTime":9541.366,"body":"had planned for today we'll keep just as"},{"startTime":9541.366,"endTime":9543.333,"body":"well and uh i'd be up"},{"startTime":9543.333,"endTime":9544.766,"body":"to explore it next time"},{"startTime":9544.766,"endTime":9547.066,"body":"all right i think that's"},{"startTime":9547.266,"endTime":9550.233,"body":"all right that's the fiery episode of the"},{"startTime":9550.233,"endTime":9551.866,"body":"DarkHorse podcast yeah"},{"startTime":9551.866,"endTime":9554.766,"body":"um let's see let's see if i can find out"},{"startTime":9554.766,"endTime":9557.233,"body":"what what else uh we're gonna oh so just"},{"startTime":9557.233,"endTime":9560.366,"body":"a teaser for next time uh one of the next"},{"startTime":9560.633,"endTime":9561.933,"body":"the stories we're going to be talking"},{"startTime":9561.933,"endTime":9563.066,"body":"about uh it involves"},{"startTime":9563.066,"endTime":9565.533,"body":"leopards martial eagles and pythons"},{"startTime":9566.633,"endTime":9568.066,"body":"that's it that's all you get you know you"},{"startTime":9568.066,"endTime":9569.066,"body":"have to guess you don't"},{"startTime":9569.066,"endTime":9569.899,"body":"have to guess you already know"},{"startTime":9569.899,"endTime":9571.433,"body":"no i already know yeah it would be easy"},{"startTime":9571.433,"endTime":9573.466,"body":"for me to guess it's unfair yeah"},{"startTime":9573.466,"endTime":9575.6,"body":"and you're not a cheater nope nope never"},{"startTime":9575.6,"endTime":9582.299,"body":"have been not interested okay um um i"},{"startTime":9582.299,"endTime":9583.466,"body":"don't even know what i'm supposed to do"},{"startTime":9583.466,"endTime":9584.933,"body":"now because we sort of stopped all of a"},{"startTime":9584.933,"endTime":9588.033,"body":"sudden which okay um we'll be back uh not"},{"startTime":9588.033,"endTime":9590.066,"body":"next wednesday but a week from saturday"},{"startTime":9590.066,"endTime":9592.899,"body":"uh and then the following wednesday with"},{"startTime":9592.899,"endTime":9595.333,"body":"uh with a couple more episodes of dark"},{"startTime":9595.333,"endTime":9598.466,"body":"horse um but there will be an inside rail"},{"startTime":9598.466,"endTime":9600.766,"body":"episode publishing on the 11th i believe"},{"startTime":9600.766,"endTime":9606.666,"body":"and another one this month as well and um"},{"startTime":9606.666,"endTime":9608.399,"body":"gosh i just feel like i'm forgetting to"},{"startTime":9608.399,"endTime":9610.833,"body":"say all the things but uh you know a"},{"startTime":9610.833,"endTime":9613.333,"body":"happy new year to everyone and i hope you"},{"startTime":9613.333,"endTime":9616.1,"body":"know we're already a weekend for one 52nd"},{"startTime":9616.1,"endTime":9617.633,"body":"of the way through 2020 say"},{"startTime":9617.633,"endTime":9620.933,"body":"wow already already already"},{"startTime":9620.933,"endTime":9624.233,"body":"um i'm still writing 2013 on my checks"},{"startTime":9624.233,"endTime":9627.799,"body":"okay let me ask you a question yeah no"},{"startTime":9627.799,"endTime":9630.399,"body":"actually i was gonna when was the last"},{"startTime":9630.399,"endTime":9631.466,"body":"time you were to check i think you"},{"startTime":9631.466,"endTime":9632.299,"body":"actually have written"},{"startTime":9633.266,"endTime":9635.6,"body":"yeah i've written a check you know i"},{"startTime":9635.6,"endTime":9636.633,"body":"write probably but"},{"startTime":9636.633,"endTime":9638.666,"body":"probably for a year at this point"},{"startTime":9638.966,"endTime":9641.1,"body":"yeah now the island that we live on"},{"startTime":9641.1,"endTime":9644.033,"body":"actually requires checks more often of of"},{"startTime":9644.033,"endTime":9647.1,"body":"us uh because for better and for worse we"},{"startTime":9647.1,"endTime":9648.933,"body":"are still living 50 years behind"},{"startTime":9650.233,"endTime":9651.899,"body":"technologically for better and worse for"},{"startTime":9651.899,"endTime":9654.0,"body":"better and for worse yes uh mostly for"},{"startTime":9654.0,"endTime":9657.533,"body":"better yeah yeah yeah um although there's"},{"startTime":9657.533,"endTime":9659.6,"body":"clay facade on the islands it's"},{"startTime":9659.6,"endTime":9661.0,"body":"actually it's forbidden on"},{"startTime":9661.0,"endTime":9662.866,"body":"the island yes still is some but"},{"startTime":9662.866,"endTime":9666.366,"body":"yeah so this is this is not this is not"},{"startTime":9666.366,"endTime":9667.799,"body":"the time but i think we've mentioned"},{"startTime":9667.799,"endTime":9670.133,"body":"before it is apparently forbidden in the"},{"startTime":9670.133,"endTime":9673.533,"body":"san juan islands glyphosate and there are"},{"startTime":9673.533,"endTime":9677.733,"body":"state agencies encouraging and in fact uh"},{"startTime":9677.733,"endTime":9681.799,"body":"employing it in order to kill some plants"},{"startTime":9681.799,"endTime":9683.833,"body":"and encourage other plants so that an"},{"startTime":9683.833,"endTime":9686.333,"body":"endangered leopodopteran can thrive and"},{"startTime":9686.333,"endTime":9689.333,"body":"it's just so short-sighted and arguments"},{"startTime":9689.333,"endTime":9691.833,"body":"with such people gets nowhere maybe now"},{"startTime":9691.833,"endTime":9694.133,"body":"it'll get somewhere maybe now we can stop"},{"startTime":9694.133,"endTime":9696.133,"body":"the application of glyphosate within"},{"startTime":9696.133,"endTime":9698.966,"body":"african national historical park my god"},{"startTime":9698.966,"endTime":9701.033,"body":"hell yeah yeah this is this has been a"},{"startTime":9701.033,"endTime":9702.933,"body":"long time coming and so as much as you"},{"startTime":9702.933,"endTime":9704.533,"body":"and i disagree about the particular you"},{"startTime":9704.533,"endTime":9708.866,"body":"know where to focus our our dismay and"},{"startTime":9708.866,"endTime":9711.166,"body":"anger we are in absolute agreement that"},{"startTime":9711.166,"endTime":9713.133,"body":"the retraction was necessary and we hope"},{"startTime":9713.133,"endTime":9716.733,"body":"that the epa pays close heed and uh"},{"startTime":9716.733,"endTime":9718.766,"body":"changes its directives when it has to do"},{"startTime":9718.766,"endTime":9722.166,"body":"so this year good yeah uh so you have"},{"startTime":9722.166,"endTime":9725.5,"body":"something else nope all right um until"},{"startTime":9725.5,"endTime":9727.033,"body":"you see us next time be good to the ones"},{"startTime":9727.033,"endTime":9729.366,"body":"you love eat good food and get outside"},{"startTime":9729.366,"endTime":9730.333,"body":"be well everyone"}]}