{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.033,"endTime":3.466,"body":"(Music)"},{"startTime":4.933,"endTime":6.566,"body":"Hey folks, welcome to the"},{"startTime":6.566,"endTime":9.5,"body":"DarkHorse Podcast live stream."},{"startTime":9.5,"endTime":10.699,"body":"It's number 322."},{"startTime":11.5,"endTime":14.066,"body":"You and I are the resident DarkHorses."},{"startTime":14.3,"endTime":15.0,"body":"I am Dr."},{"startTime":15.0,"endTime":15.333,"body":"Bret Weinstein."},{"startTime":15.766,"endTime":16.333,"body":"You are Dr."},{"startTime":16.333,"endTime":16.8,"body":"Heather Heying."},{"startTime":17.0,"endTime":17.666,"body":"It is Saturday."},{"startTime":17.933,"endTime":20.133,"body":"Not our usual spot, but hey, it's kind of"},{"startTime":20.133,"endTime":21.333,"body":"traditional around here."},{"startTime":21.833,"endTime":22.333,"body":"It has been"},{"startTime":22.333,"endTime":24.233,"body":"traditional and then we moved it."},{"startTime":24.533,"endTime":27.166,"body":"And this is the fourth in a cluster of"},{"startTime":27.199,"endTime":29.166,"body":"four live streams and then we're going to"},{"startTime":29.166,"endTime":31.266,"body":"be taking most of the rest"},{"startTime":31.266,"endTime":33.466,"body":"April to do some other work."},{"startTime":34.233,"endTime":35.899,"body":"But there's going to be some interesting"},{"startTime":35.899,"endTime":38.166,"body":"inside rail drops in our absence."},{"startTime":38.766,"endTime":39.766,"body":"And as always, we have our"},{"startTime":39.766,"endTime":41.666,"body":"locals watch party going on."},{"startTime":41.666,"endTime":43.633,"body":"We had some great Q\u0026A's on locals in the"},{"startTime":43.633,"endTime":44.766,"body":"last couple of weeks."},{"startTime":45.266,"endTime":46.6,"body":"And check us out there."},{"startTime":46.933,"endTime":49.433,"body":"A cluster of DarkHorse podcasts."},{"startTime":50.533,"endTime":52.766,"body":"I'm just thinking some fraction of our"},{"startTime":52.833,"endTime":55.866,"body":"audience has been trained such that the"},{"startTime":55.866,"endTime":57.866,"body":"word cluster auto completes."},{"startTime":58.666,"endTime":60.166,"body":"I know, but it makes then that makes me"},{"startTime":60.166,"endTime":62.333,"body":"wonder and I have known in the past, what"},{"startTime":62.333,"endTime":65.166,"body":"are the cluster a personality?"},{"startTime":66.233,"endTime":67.166,"body":"Oh, that's not what I"},{"startTime":67.166,"endTime":68.0,"body":"was thinking at all."},{"startTime":68.233,"endTime":69.099,"body":"Oh, you think of bombs?"},{"startTime":69.366,"endTime":70.533,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"startTime":70.733,"endTime":70.933,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":71.066,"endTime":71.799,"body":"Well, not exactly."},{"startTime":72.233,"endTime":73.333,"body":"Some fraction of our audience thinks"},{"startTime":73.333,"endTime":74.866,"body":"cluster b personality."},{"startTime":74.866,"endTime":76.066,"body":"No, I think our audience."},{"startTime":76.066,"endTime":77.0,"body":"Yes, some fraction."},{"startTime":77.0,"endTime":79.933,"body":"Yes, there's no way no, no fraction of"},{"startTime":79.933,"endTime":80.766,"body":"our audience thinks cluster b."},{"startTime":81.433,"endTime":82.633,"body":"That's what I thought of."},{"startTime":83.666,"endTime":83.866,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":84.299,"endTime":86.533,"body":"No, I was actually the bombs and"},{"startTime":86.533,"endTime":88.799,"body":"you have with your like agro military"},{"startTime":88.799,"endTime":91.433,"body":"focus thinking about cluster bombs, but"},{"startTime":91.433,"endTime":92.133,"body":"I wasn't."},{"startTime":92.133,"endTime":94.433,"body":"I really wasn't the bombs have been"},{"startTime":95.533,"endTime":98.233,"body":"the cluster in cluster bomb has been"},{"startTime":98.233,"endTime":101.233,"body":"reappropriated into common parlance to"},{"startTime":101.233,"endTime":103.599,"body":"describe an explosively bad situation."},{"startTime":103.599,"endTime":105.7,"body":"And that's what I thought the auto"},{"startTime":105.7,"endTime":106.633,"body":"complete was leading."},{"startTime":106.633,"endTime":108.166,"body":"I think of that as more of a cluster."},{"startTime":110.099,"endTime":111.0,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"startTime":111.333,"endTime":113.266,"body":"That is what I'm imagining happened in"},{"startTime":113.266,"endTime":116.166,"body":"the minds of many of our viewers and"},{"startTime":116.166,"endTime":117.766,"body":"probably they're recovered by now."},{"startTime":118.066,"endTime":118.799,"body":"But, you know,"},{"startTime":118.933,"endTime":120.599,"body":"I mean, I think we got in the way of that"},{"startTime":120.599,"endTime":122.2,"body":"recovery with this conversation."},{"startTime":122.733,"endTime":123.7,"body":"Yes, we've promoted it"},{"startTime":123.7,"endTime":124.466,"body":"fully to consciousness."},{"startTime":124.466,"endTime":126.2,"body":"And now that's all they're thinking"},{"startTime":126.2,"endTime":130.933,"body":"about, which by the way, you're welcome."},{"startTime":131.533,"endTime":132.166,"body":"And I'm sorry."},{"startTime":132.433,"endTime":134.666,"body":"No, but I mean, I do think that we've"},{"startTime":134.666,"endTime":138.4,"body":"talked about before, but this the value"},{"startTime":138.4,"endTime":140.733,"body":"of not having some things promoted to"},{"startTime":140.733,"endTime":142.9,"body":"consciousness so that you are aware of"},{"startTime":142.9,"endTime":146.199,"body":"them and can have them promoted, if they"},{"startTime":146.199,"endTime":148.266,"body":"need to be, but they aren't taking up"},{"startTime":148.266,"endTime":151.366,"body":"valuable sort of interactive day to day"},{"startTime":151.366,"endTime":155.533,"body":"space in your life is it's it's an ever"},{"startTime":155.533,"endTime":157.033,"body":"more difficult tightrope"},{"startTime":157.033,"endTime":158.8,"body":"to walk in the modern era."},{"startTime":158.8,"endTime":161.733,"body":"If you ever spend a time being exposed to"},{"startTime":161.733,"endTime":163.366,"body":"things that you weren't explicitly asking"},{"startTime":163.366,"endTime":165.266,"body":"for, which is to say online."},{"startTime":166.233,"endTime":168.3,"body":"Actually, you know, that's quite right."},{"startTime":169.066,"endTime":169.866,"body":"You sound surprised."},{"startTime":170.166,"endTime":173.333,"body":"No, I just it's a good thought that one"},{"startTime":173.333,"endTime":176.033,"body":"of the maladies that we suffer from in"},{"startTime":176.033,"endTime":179.0,"body":"modernity is that we are forced to keep"},{"startTime":179.199,"endTime":183.266,"body":"many active threads open simultaneously"},{"startTime":183.266,"endTime":185.533,"body":"just for because we have"},{"startTime":185.533,"endTime":187.266,"body":"things at stake in them."},{"startTime":187.266,"endTime":188.166,"body":"You can't."},{"startTime":188.166,"endTime":188.333,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":188.333,"endTime":190.366,"body":"But I mean, I think my point is now and"},{"startTime":190.366,"endTime":191.833,"body":"has been, you know, this is not a new"},{"startTime":191.833,"endTime":194.033,"body":"thing that I'm saying that I've said this"},{"startTime":194.033,"endTime":197.366,"body":"many times before that for for many of"},{"startTime":197.366,"endTime":199.533,"body":"us, the active decision to say, actually,"},{"startTime":199.533,"endTime":201.766,"body":"that's not where I'm going to be aware"},{"startTime":201.766,"endTime":202.766,"body":"right now, that it's not going to be"},{"startTime":202.766,"endTime":203.633,"body":"where I spend my time."},{"startTime":204.366,"endTime":205.599,"body":"And I'm going to choose to go in"},{"startTime":205.599,"endTime":208.066,"body":"sometimes and say, OK, or not."},{"startTime":208.733,"endTime":212.166,"body":"And that isn't inherently an avoidant or"},{"startTime":212.166,"endTime":214.366,"body":"evasive or disinterested position."},{"startTime":214.366,"endTime":219.099,"body":"It is a both self preserving position and"},{"startTime":219.099,"endTime":221.333,"body":"also one that potentially allows for"},{"startTime":221.333,"endTime":223.033,"body":"greater clarity of thought when it comes"},{"startTime":223.033,"endTime":226.699,"body":"with episodically, when it is important"},{"startTime":226.699,"endTime":229.266,"body":"to go back to or to to go for the first"},{"startTime":229.266,"endTime":231.366,"body":"time to some topic that has been active"},{"startTime":231.366,"endTime":233.366,"body":"in many people's minds constantly for,"},{"startTime":233.366,"endTime":235.066,"body":"you know, days, weeks,"},{"startTime":235.066,"endTime":235.833,"body":"months, years, decades."},{"startTime":236.333,"endTime":236.533,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":236.766,"endTime":239.099,"body":"Each of the threads benefits from being"},{"startTime":239.666,"endTime":243.766,"body":"put into a latent phase to be revived"},{"startTime":243.766,"endTime":245.8,"body":"later with fresh eyes rather than keeping"},{"startTime":245.8,"endTime":248.166,"body":"them all active in the mind because it's"},{"startTime":248.166,"endTime":249.3,"body":"like a battlefield with,"},{"startTime":249.3,"endTime":251.233,"body":"you know, 20 active threats."},{"startTime":252.166,"endTime":253.333,"body":"And, you know, we don't."},{"startTime":254.966,"endTime":256.6,"body":"Some people think they do, but we"},{"startTime":256.6,"endTime":258.033,"body":"basically don't multitask well."},{"startTime":258.466,"endTime":258.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":259.033,"endTime":263.1,"body":"So, you know, at what cost at many costs,"},{"startTime":263.1,"endTime":264.633,"body":"some of the costs will be quantifiable"},{"startTime":264.633,"endTime":266.899,"body":"and noticeable and sort of, you know, you"},{"startTime":266.899,"endTime":268.533,"body":"know, on the ground in physical space,"},{"startTime":268.533,"endTime":269.933,"body":"what did you what didn't you get done"},{"startTime":269.933,"endTime":270.433,"body":"because you were"},{"startTime":270.433,"endTime":271.966,"body":"thinking about stuff over here."},{"startTime":271.966,"endTime":275.033,"body":"But I think the much harder to quantify"},{"startTime":275.033,"endTime":277.366,"body":"and therefore more likely to be ignored"},{"startTime":277.366,"endTime":280.933,"body":"costs have to do with, you know, greater"},{"startTime":280.933,"endTime":285.066,"body":"ability to do analysis at various scales"},{"startTime":285.199,"endTime":288.033,"body":"at, you know, when when called to do so,"},{"startTime":288.033,"endTime":290.933,"body":"as opposed to at a constant level of"},{"startTime":290.933,"endTime":292.033,"body":"like, well, I have to know, you know, I"},{"startTime":292.033,"endTime":293.8,"body":"need to know what this and that and this"},{"startTime":293.8,"endTime":295.233,"body":"and that at the, you know,"},{"startTime":296.266,"endTime":297.966,"body":"hourly daily weekly level is."},{"startTime":297.966,"endTime":298.866,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":298.866,"endTime":300.733,"body":"I also think it interacts with the"},{"startTime":300.733,"endTime":303.633,"body":"Cartesian crisis that in effect, because"},{"startTime":303.633,"endTime":305.966,"body":"you're trying to make sense of a bunch of"},{"startTime":305.966,"endTime":307.5,"body":"things that don't that aren't"},{"startTime":307.5,"endTime":308.866,"body":"straightforward, the"},{"startTime":308.866,"endTime":310.033,"body":"back burner fills up."},{"startTime":310.033,"endTime":312.233,"body":"I'm a big fan of the back burner where"},{"startTime":312.233,"endTime":314.199,"body":"you can put things and not"},{"startTime":314.199,"endTime":315.3,"body":"resolve them prematurely."},{"startTime":315.3,"endTime":317.366,"body":"And then when you discover something that"},{"startTime":317.366,"endTime":318.966,"body":"allows you to make progress, you pull it"},{"startTime":318.966,"endTime":319.733,"body":"off the back burner."},{"startTime":320.199,"endTime":323.366,"body":"But if the back burner has 40 things on"},{"startTime":323.366,"endTime":325.233,"body":"it because nothing is straightforward,"},{"startTime":326.0,"endTime":329.166,"body":"then you you're basically you've got a"},{"startTime":329.166,"endTime":330.766,"body":"lot of live models rather than, you know,"},{"startTime":330.766,"endTime":332.433,"body":"if you were programming a computer, you"},{"startTime":332.433,"endTime":335.3,"body":"would want to get an element right so"},{"startTime":335.3,"endTime":337.033,"body":"that when you were working on some other"},{"startTime":337.033,"endTime":338.533,"body":"element and breaking things in the"},{"startTime":338.533,"endTime":341.1,"body":"process of elaborating it, you weren't"},{"startTime":341.1,"endTime":342.1,"body":"worried that this thing"},{"startTime":342.1,"endTime":343.399,"body":"over here wasn't stable."},{"startTime":343.399,"endTime":343.899,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":344.433,"endTime":345.866,"body":"And that, yeah, it's"},{"startTime":345.866,"endTime":346.633,"body":"very counterproductive."},{"startTime":347.533,"endTime":348.266,"body":"Very counterproductive."},{"startTime":348.466,"endTime":350.166,"body":"And there's also I mean, I was thinking,"},{"startTime":350.466,"endTime":351.966,"body":"you know, we're doing this all before the"},{"startTime":351.966,"endTime":353.166,"body":"ads, which means some portion of the"},{"startTime":353.166,"endTime":354.833,"body":"audience will just skip this, never hear"},{"startTime":354.833,"endTime":355.866,"body":"this part of the conversation."},{"startTime":355.866,"endTime":358.966,"body":"But I think it's maybe the crux of what"},{"startTime":358.966,"endTime":361.066,"body":"we should be talking about today, which"},{"startTime":361.066,"endTime":365.666,"body":"is that, you know, part of as you have"},{"startTime":365.666,"endTime":367.933,"body":"discussed the Cartesian crisis, which you"},{"startTime":367.933,"endTime":371.066,"body":"named a few years back, our inability,"},{"startTime":371.733,"endTime":373.766,"body":"our ever-greatening inability,"},{"startTime":375.066,"endTime":377.633,"body":"our ever-enhanced, our ever-growing,"},{"startTime":377.866,"endTime":378.733,"body":"that's, that's the"},{"startTime":378.733,"endTime":381.933,"body":"one inability to discern what is real"},{"startTime":381.933,"endTime":384.966,"body":"discern what the truth is, has to do with"},{"startTime":384.966,"endTime":386.766,"body":"us not being actual eyewitnesses to"},{"startTime":386.766,"endTime":388.366,"body":"things where we think we're eyewitnesses"},{"startTime":388.366,"endTime":391.733,"body":"to the fabrication of apparent reality on"},{"startTime":391.733,"endTime":393.833,"body":"screens, the interface, the, you know,"},{"startTime":393.833,"endTime":396.733,"body":"the delay between what we think that"},{"startTime":396.733,"endTime":399.366,"body":"we're sensing, what we are sensing, and"},{"startTime":399.366,"endTime":400.733,"body":"when it actually happened, and therefore"},{"startTime":400.733,"endTime":403.166,"body":"the ability for contributing forces to"},{"startTime":403.166,"endTime":406.733,"body":"get in between the thing that we think"},{"startTime":406.733,"endTime":408.966,"body":"we're observing or sensing in some way,"},{"startTime":408.966,"endTime":409.733,"body":"and how we're sensing"},{"startTime":409.733,"endTime":410.933,"body":"it and to change it."},{"startTime":411.8,"endTime":413.666,"body":"So that's, that's at the empirical level,"},{"startTime":414.433,"endTime":415.533,"body":"the pollen continues,"},{"startTime":415.533,"endTime":416.366,"body":"spring continues here."},{"startTime":418.399,"endTime":421.433,"body":"And, and then, of course, a lot of what"},{"startTime":421.433,"endTime":423.133,"body":"we do here with regard to the"},{"startTime":423.133,"endTime":425.066,"body":"evolutionary lens is think at the"},{"startTime":425.066,"endTime":427.1,"body":"theoretical level analytically,"},{"startTime":428.633,"endTime":431.433,"body":"entirely aside from what is actually"},{"startTime":431.433,"endTime":433.066,"body":"true, what would be true if?"},{"startTime":433.3,"endTime":434.666,"body":"Let's work in hypotheticals, let's"},{"startTime":434.666,"endTime":436.266,"body":"consider, you know, things like the game"},{"startTime":436.266,"endTime":438.333,"body":"theory and the evolutionary logic of"},{"startTime":438.333,"endTime":441.066,"body":"systems, and then as we actually know"},{"startTime":441.066,"endTime":443.433,"body":"things to be true, let's, let's say, oh,"},{"startTime":443.433,"endTime":445.966,"body":"I see that, let's use what we understand"},{"startTime":445.966,"endTime":448.066,"body":"analytically and figure out what must be"},{"startTime":448.066,"endTime":451.066,"body":"true if that is true, and, and use those"},{"startTime":451.066,"endTime":452.633,"body":"sorts of skills to assess if what we"},{"startTime":452.633,"endTime":454.333,"body":"think we're seeing is true, is actually"},{"startTime":454.333,"endTime":455.833,"body":"true, and also to make inference."},{"startTime":456.966,"endTime":460.566,"body":"But when the new cycle is so fast, when"},{"startTime":460.566,"endTime":463.066,"body":"the information is demonstrably"},{"startTime":463.766,"endTime":466.333,"body":"fraudulent, at least in places, the"},{"startTime":466.333,"endTime":469.766,"body":"ability to use any model on things that"},{"startTime":469.766,"endTime":474.866,"body":"you have totally varying understanding of"},{"startTime":474.866,"endTime":476.433,"body":"whether or not they are true, and also"},{"startTime":476.433,"endTime":478.133,"body":"varying capacities, no to what degree"},{"startTime":478.133,"endTime":479.966,"body":"they are true, the whole thing becomes"},{"startTime":479.966,"endTime":481.933,"body":"such a model that, you know, and, and"},{"startTime":482.533,"endTime":484.1,"body":"this, you know, your results will vary,"},{"startTime":484.1,"endTime":485.0,"body":"like different people will have"},{"startTime":485.0,"endTime":488.266,"body":"different, different brains, which, yes,"},{"startTime":488.266,"endTime":489.8,"body":"different capacities too, but different"},{"startTime":489.8,"endTime":492.233,"body":"brains that work well in different styles"},{"startTime":492.233,"endTime":495.066,"body":"of tasks, that, that, you know, pulling,"},{"startTime":495.066,"endTime":496.633,"body":"pulling back and saying, actually, that"},{"startTime":496.633,"endTime":500.033,"body":"entire thing is so unknown that no amount"},{"startTime":500.033,"endTime":502.066,"body":"of analysis over here is going to allow"},{"startTime":502.066,"endTime":506.266,"body":"me to discern what's true, therefore I"},{"startTime":506.266,"endTime":507.066,"body":"can't make sense of it."},{"startTime":507.466,"endTime":510.666,"body":"And I'm not saying I don't care, and I'm"},{"startTime":510.666,"endTime":512.466,"body":"not saying I'm disinterested, what I'm"},{"startTime":512.466,"endTime":515.566,"body":"saying is it's simply not possible now,"},{"startTime":515.766,"endTime":517.6,"body":"and there are so many other things that I"},{"startTime":517.6,"endTime":519.166,"body":"could be doing with my time in which I"},{"startTime":519.166,"endTime":520.233,"body":"could be making sense of the world"},{"startTime":520.233,"endTime":523.6,"body":"developing better models, that I'm, you"},{"startTime":523.6,"endTime":524.933,"body":"know, maybe I'll come back to it, maybe"},{"startTime":524.933,"endTime":527.1,"body":"not, but being constantly reminded of the"},{"startTime":527.1,"endTime":530.966,"body":"thing doesn't often for many people"},{"startTime":530.966,"endTime":531.766,"body":"actually help resolve"},{"startTime":531.766,"endTime":533.866,"body":"anything and just makes us scattered."},{"startTime":534.933,"endTime":536.366,"body":"Well, it does remind me a little bit of"},{"startTime":536.366,"endTime":538.933,"body":"the conversation we had many months ago"},{"startTime":538.933,"endTime":540.833,"body":"about my couple friends who"},{"startTime":540.833,"endTime":543.533,"body":"walked away from social media,"},{"startTime":545.333,"endTime":547.333,"body":"first order, that's a very wise thing to"},{"startTime":547.333,"endTime":551.299,"body":"do for your sanity and mental health, but"},{"startTime":551.299,"endTime":553.0,"body":"when I checked back in on them years"},{"startTime":553.0,"endTime":556.266,"body":"later, I found they their mental health"},{"startTime":556.266,"endTime":559.466,"body":"was fine, but their level of confusion"},{"startTime":559.466,"endTime":561.566,"body":"about what was actually going on in the"},{"startTime":561.566,"endTime":563.866,"body":"world struck me as quite high, because"},{"startTime":563.866,"endTime":567.633,"body":"unfortunately, we're stuck in a kind of"},{"startTime":567.633,"endTime":569.166,"body":"damned if you do and damned if you don't"},{"startTime":569.166,"endTime":570.133,"body":"world it's like which"},{"startTime":570.133,"endTime":571.566,"body":"failure mode do you prefer?"},{"startTime":571.966,"endTime":573.733,"body":"And I'm not arguing that one is better"},{"startTime":573.733,"endTime":575.966,"body":"than the other, but I am arguing, I guess"},{"startTime":575.966,"endTime":577.933,"body":"I it's failure modes on both sides."},{"startTime":578.333,"endTime":579.766,"body":"There are there is the potential for"},{"startTime":579.766,"endTime":581.1,"body":"failure modes on both sides for sure."},{"startTime":581.1,"endTime":582.166,"body":"And they're going to be different ones"},{"startTime":582.166,"endTime":586.066,"body":"mostly, but I'm thinking about, you know,"},{"startTime":586.066,"endTime":587.533,"body":"you kept both of your friends"},{"startTime":587.533,"endTime":589.666,"body":"anonymously, anonymous as you should, but"},{"startTime":589.666,"endTime":593.033,"body":"I'm thinking about people who, for"},{"startTime":593.033,"endTime":594.0,"body":"instance, are saying"},{"startTime":594.0,"endTime":595.1,"body":"I'm not on social media."},{"startTime":595.566,"endTime":598.666,"body":"And when my beloved child comes to me and"},{"startTime":598.666,"endTime":600.166,"body":"says that they're a sex that they're not,"},{"startTime":601.366,"endTime":603.899,"body":"I believe them, because I believe my"},{"startTime":603.899,"endTime":605.066,"body":"child and oh, by the"},{"startTime":605.066,"endTime":607.066,"body":"way, what is my news feed?"},{"startTime":607.333,"endTime":610.299,"body":"My news feed is the completely captured"},{"startTime":610.299,"endTime":611.533,"body":"New York Times and NPR."},{"startTime":612.166,"endTime":613.366,"body":"And so it's not that"},{"startTime":613.366,"endTime":614.7,"body":"there's no media diet."},{"startTime":614.7,"endTime":616.566,"body":"It's that there's been a choice for a"},{"startTime":616.566,"endTime":617.733,"body":"media diet that is"},{"startTime":617.733,"endTime":619.333,"body":"extraordinarily ideological."},{"startTime":620.066,"endTime":621.0,"body":"And this will, you know, the same"},{"startTime":621.0,"endTime":623.466,"body":"opposite different, but, you know,"},{"startTime":623.833,"endTime":625.933,"body":"similar levels of error will presumably"},{"startTime":625.933,"endTime":629.466,"body":"occur on the so-called right side of the"},{"startTime":629.466,"endTime":630.233,"body":"spectrum if that's the only"},{"startTime":630.233,"endTime":631.433,"body":"media diet you're receiving."},{"startTime":631.833,"endTime":633.5,"body":"So, you know, ideology is ideology."},{"startTime":634.033,"endTime":635.566,"body":"So I don't think that that is"},{"startTime":636.799,"endTime":638.233,"body":"fixed by social media."},{"startTime":638.233,"endTime":639.799,"body":"Most people on social media are getting a"},{"startTime":639.799,"endTime":641.866,"body":"straight up ideological diet as well."},{"startTime":642.066,"endTime":643.533,"body":"And it's just coming at them way faster."},{"startTime":643.533,"endTime":645.466,"body":"And so it's, you know, it's more toxic"},{"startTime":645.466,"endTime":648.399,"body":"because of the speed, but it's no less or"},{"startTime":648.399,"endTime":649.666,"body":"more ideological inherently."},{"startTime":649.933,"endTime":651.266,"body":"And some would argue that the algorithms"},{"startTime":651.266,"endTime":653.399,"body":"associated with social media make it"},{"startTime":653.399,"endTime":655.466,"body":"more, more catalyzing."},{"startTime":656.299,"endTime":658.166,"body":"I think part of what we've been seeing"},{"startTime":658.166,"endTime":660.366,"body":"over the last, I don't know what you want"},{"startTime":660.366,"endTime":663.666,"body":"to call it, five or 50 years is a"},{"startTime":663.666,"endTime":667.433,"body":"catalyzing and a fixing of ideology in"},{"startTime":667.433,"endTime":670.299,"body":"the legacy publications and the legacy"},{"startTime":670.299,"endTime":673.2,"body":"media, such that it's really hard to"},{"startTime":673.2,"endTime":675.766,"body":"actually end up informed and educated by"},{"startTime":675.766,"endTime":677.933,"body":"reading or watching any"},{"startTime":677.933,"endTime":679.233,"body":"individual legacy media."},{"startTime":679.6,"endTime":681.799,"body":"So social media has the capacity to"},{"startTime":681.799,"endTime":684.233,"body":"amalgamate, but it doesn't usually do so."},{"startTime":684.633,"endTime":685.266,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":685.266,"endTime":686.533,"body":"I think there are three categories."},{"startTime":687.133,"endTime":690.166,"body":"You've got, I embrace the legacy media,"},{"startTime":690.5,"endTime":694.066,"body":"you get the equivalent of false signal."},{"startTime":694.066,"endTime":695.633,"body":"It's consistent."},{"startTime":695.933,"endTime":696.633,"body":"It is not true."},{"startTime":697.466,"endTime":699.466,"body":"Social media, if you allow the algorithm"},{"startTime":699.466,"endTime":701.0,"body":"to govern you, you get a"},{"startTime":701.0,"endTime":701.866,"body":"different false signal."},{"startTime":702.366,"endTime":706.066,"body":"If you attempt to break the false signal"},{"startTime":706.066,"endTime":707.866,"body":"on social media, you"},{"startTime":707.866,"endTime":710.066,"body":"lose signal in the noise."},{"startTime":710.433,"endTime":712.299,"body":"What you get is a huge amount of noise,"},{"startTime":712.299,"endTime":713.433,"body":"most of it not informative."},{"startTime":713.933,"endTime":716.399,"body":"And the question is, can you divine a"},{"startTime":716.399,"endTime":718.833,"body":"signal out of that noise that is in fact"},{"startTime":719.133,"endTime":720.6,"body":"leans in the direction"},{"startTime":720.6,"endTime":721.666,"body":"of some kind of truth?"},{"startTime":722.0,"endTime":723.366,"body":"In the social media, you're saying?"},{"startTime":723.633,"endTime":723.833,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":724.266,"endTime":727.433,"body":"Because you can follow people who are on"},{"startTime":727.433,"endTime":730.366,"body":"different sides of an issue and then you"},{"startTime":730.366,"endTime":731.166,"body":"could try to figure out"},{"startTime":731.166,"endTime":732.133,"body":"what's actually going on."},{"startTime":732.366,"endTime":732.799,"body":"So anyway."},{"startTime":733.333,"endTime":736.533,"body":"This is what editors are supposed to do."},{"startTime":736.533,"endTime":737.799,"body":"This is what curation is."},{"startTime":738.133,"endTime":741.566,"body":"These concepts that have been grabbed and"},{"startTime":741.566,"endTime":743.933,"body":"twisted and either disappeared and then"},{"startTime":743.933,"endTime":746.066,"body":"their skin suits are walking around or"},{"startTime":746.066,"endTime":748.533,"body":"have been used for totally other things"},{"startTime":748.533,"endTime":750.966,"body":"are actually extraordinarily valuable"},{"startTime":750.966,"endTime":753.566,"body":"concepts because none of us, especially"},{"startTime":753.566,"endTime":757.366,"body":"in the 21st century, can possibly walk"},{"startTime":757.366,"endTime":759.266,"body":"into every single system that we might,"},{"startTime":759.266,"endTime":761.266,"body":"if we are curious and open human beings,"},{"startTime":761.266,"endTime":764.1,"body":"be interested in and become knowledgeable"},{"startTime":764.1,"endTime":766.433,"body":"enough to start separating"},{"startTime":766.433,"endTime":767.833,"body":"wheat from chaff very quickly."},{"startTime":768.066,"endTime":770.233,"body":"And so it is valuable that the reason"},{"startTime":770.233,"endTime":772.666,"body":"that there have been beautiful"},{"startTime":772.666,"endTime":775.233,"body":"publications that actually you can say,"},{"startTime":775.233,"endTime":778.566,"body":"okay, this is what, if I go there once a"},{"startTime":778.566,"endTime":781.466,"body":"week or every day even and just do a"},{"startTime":781.466,"endTime":783.466,"body":"quick run of the front page or this"},{"startTime":783.466,"endTime":786.066,"body":"section and this section, I will get a"},{"startTime":786.066,"endTime":788.299,"body":"kind of read on the world as a match for"},{"startTime":788.299,"endTime":789.966,"body":"the kind of read that I have historically"},{"startTime":789.966,"endTime":791.733,"body":"been interested in, but all of these"},{"startTime":791.733,"endTime":792.6,"body":"things have fallen apart."},{"startTime":793.366,"endTime":796.233,"body":"So curation and editing is partially the"},{"startTime":796.233,"endTime":798.399,"body":"answer to this, but we don't have"},{"startTime":798.399,"endTime":800.299,"body":"curators or editors who are trustworthy"},{"startTime":800.299,"endTime":801.733,"body":"or not ideological anymore."},{"startTime":801.933,"endTime":803.366,"body":"Which I think is the point."},{"startTime":803.899,"endTime":805.233,"body":"A, that tells you something."},{"startTime":805.466,"endTime":807.7,"body":"The fact that we would all sign up for"},{"startTime":807.7,"endTime":810.033,"body":"even one, even if it was from an ideology"},{"startTime":810.033,"endTime":813.866,"body":"that we didn't, from a proceeding from an"},{"startTime":813.866,"endTime":815.5,"body":"ideology that we didn't match, just"},{"startTime":815.533,"endTime":817.566,"body":"something to try to tell the truth and"},{"startTime":817.566,"endTime":819.866,"body":"held that as its highest value, it'd be a"},{"startTime":819.866,"endTime":821.033,"body":"slam dunk business wise."},{"startTime":821.466,"endTime":822.5,"body":"Everybody would sign up."},{"startTime":823.233,"endTime":824.666,"body":"The fact that we don't have one says"},{"startTime":824.666,"endTime":826.5,"body":"there's a process that makes sure that"},{"startTime":826.5,"endTime":828.566,"body":"this excellent business idea that can't"},{"startTime":828.566,"endTime":830.966,"body":"possibly fail will fail every time it"},{"startTime":830.966,"endTime":831.733,"body":"will turn into an"},{"startTime":831.733,"endTime":833.333,"body":"ideological mess and be targeted."},{"startTime":834.233,"endTime":834.833,"body":"So I do think"},{"startTime":834.833,"endTime":837.133,"body":"actually, there is kind of one."},{"startTime":837.466,"endTime":841.2,"body":"And it's the Epic Times, which I find"},{"startTime":841.2,"endTime":844.399,"body":"that I am going to more regularly, EPOCH."},{"startTime":844.766,"endTime":847.433,"body":"And you've talked with Jan, I think"},{"startTime":847.433,"endTime":850.266,"body":"founding founder, founder and editor."},{"startTime":850.266,"endTime":850.799,"body":"I'm not sure."},{"startTime":851.033,"endTime":851.566,"body":"I'm not sure."},{"startTime":851.566,"endTime":853.033,"body":"In on the ground floor, to be sure."},{"startTime":853.866,"endTime":855.633,"body":"I never remember how to"},{"startTime":855.633,"endTime":856.533,"body":"pronounce his last name."},{"startTime":857.033,"endTime":857.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":857.266,"endTime":857.633,"body":"Yacalik."},{"startTime":857.633,"endTime":859.6,"body":"Yacalik, who's extraordinary."},{"startTime":859.933,"endTime":861.299,"body":"You've had him on Inside Rail."},{"startTime":862.333,"endTime":864.733,"body":"And the Epic Times does a better job than"},{"startTime":864.733,"endTime":869.033,"body":"any other media outlet I know of at the"},{"startTime":869.033,"endTime":873.766,"body":"moment of doing a really wide array of"},{"startTime":873.766,"endTime":880.833,"body":"stories regularly and with biases"},{"startTime":880.833,"endTime":883.633,"body":"everyone has, but with bias that is worn"},{"startTime":883.633,"endTime":884.799,"body":"clearly when it's there."},{"startTime":885.033,"endTime":889.066,"body":"Well, I think it has a bias that orients"},{"startTime":889.066,"endTime":891.633,"body":"its view of the world."},{"startTime":891.933,"endTime":892.333,"body":"I think the"},{"startTime":893.833,"endTime":896.266,"body":"concern about the CCP is not"},{"startTime":896.266,"endTime":897.799,"body":"the worst bias you can have."},{"startTime":899.966,"endTime":901.6,"body":"So anyway, it does have an awful lot of"},{"startTime":901.6,"endTime":903.133,"body":"signal and it reports on a lot of stuff"},{"startTime":903.133,"endTime":905.633,"body":"where there is no Chinese dimension."},{"startTime":905.966,"endTime":908.733,"body":"And so anyway, there's a lot of stuff in"},{"startTime":908.733,"endTime":914.433,"body":"it, but I still think, I've said it"},{"startTime":914.433,"endTime":917.366,"body":"before, but we need a real newspaper with"},{"startTime":917.366,"endTime":919.733,"body":"a real newsroom with a budget that can"},{"startTime":919.733,"endTime":922.133,"body":"report globally with all of the tools at"},{"startTime":922.133,"endTime":925.0,"body":"the disposal of an actual newsroom that"},{"startTime":925.0,"endTime":927.1,"body":"responds to the journalistic ethics."},{"startTime":928.033,"endTime":930.566,"body":"And the name for it is obvious."},{"startTime":930.566,"endTime":932.2,"body":"It should be called"},{"startTime":932.2,"endTime":933.266,"body":"the Interesting Times."},{"startTime":934.533,"endTime":936.033,"body":"I think there's no question about that."},{"startTime":937.533,"endTime":937.733,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":938.733,"endTime":939.733,"body":"It's a good name."},{"startTime":940.399,"endTime":941.133,"body":"Yeah, but I mean, was"},{"startTime":941.133,"endTime":942.266,"body":"this all in service of that?"},{"startTime":943.033,"endTime":945.766,"body":"I just think it's a cherry on top of a"},{"startTime":945.766,"endTime":947.566,"body":"very good Sunday, which we"},{"startTime":947.566,"endTime":948.866,"body":"have just constructed here."},{"startTime":950.666,"endTime":950.866,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":951.799,"endTime":952.2,"body":"Maybe."},{"startTime":954.466,"endTime":954.666,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":955.066,"endTime":956.633,"body":"Let's not not at the top of the hour"},{"startTime":956.633,"endTime":958.633,"body":"anymore or the top of the half"},{"startTime":958.633,"endTime":959.933,"body":"hour, the bottom of the hour."},{"startTime":959.933,"endTime":960.7,"body":"Is that what I mean?"},{"startTime":960.7,"endTime":961.966,"body":"I guess, I guess we start"},{"startTime":961.966,"endTime":962.799,"body":"at the bottom of the hour."},{"startTime":964.299,"endTime":966.066,"body":"Yes, this is the, well, if we're starting"},{"startTime":966.066,"endTime":966.566,"body":"at the bottom of the hour."},{"startTime":966.566,"endTime":966.966,"body":"We're now closing in"},{"startTime":966.966,"endTime":967.866,"body":"on the top of the hour."},{"startTime":967.866,"endTime":971.233,"body":"We're at the top of the bottom of the"},{"startTime":971.233,"endTime":973.033,"body":"hour or the bottom of"},{"startTime":973.033,"endTime":973.833,"body":"the middle of the hour."},{"startTime":974.333,"endTime":977.033,"body":"You're not actually thinking about the"},{"startTime":977.033,"endTime":978.433,"body":"way that analog clocks work."},{"startTime":978.433,"endTime":979.433,"body":"Diagramming it in my head."},{"startTime":979.733,"endTime":980.533,"body":"Oh, clocks."},{"startTime":980.766,"endTime":981.766,"body":"I had not got it."},{"startTime":982.933,"endTime":984.833,"body":"I had a bar graph and it was pretty good."},{"startTime":985.233,"endTime":985.366,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":985.366,"endTime":986.733,"body":"But I mean, what does"},{"startTime":986.733,"endTime":987.566,"body":"the top of the hour mean?"},{"startTime":988.066,"endTime":990.366,"body":"It's thinking about an analog clock and"},{"startTime":990.366,"endTime":992.533,"body":"that never occurred to me."},{"startTime":992.799,"endTime":993.833,"body":"I think, I don't know."},{"startTime":994.1,"endTime":995.733,"body":"I haven't looked it up, but"},{"startTime":996.733,"endTime":999.266,"body":"I haven't, I haven't, I haven't referred"},{"startTime":999.266,"endTime":1001.799,"body":"to experts on this, but to me, it seems"},{"startTime":1001.799,"endTime":1002.433,"body":"obvious that that's"},{"startTime":1002.433,"endTime":1003.166,"body":"what top of the hour means."},{"startTime":1003.166,"endTime":1004.666,"body":"In which case we actually start at the"},{"startTime":1004.666,"endTime":1006.233,"body":"bottom of the hour, but we say top of the"},{"startTime":1006.233,"endTime":1007.166,"body":"hour because it's top of the hour."},{"startTime":1007.166,"endTime":1008.766,"body":"We start at the bottom of the hour, not"},{"startTime":1008.766,"endTime":1011.533,"body":"because Adam, because we're starting at"},{"startTime":1011.533,"endTime":1012.933,"body":"the bottom, which they don't."},{"startTime":1012.933,"endTime":1013.533,"body":"Typically it's just that"},{"startTime":1013.533,"endTime":1014.399,"body":"we're on the half hour."},{"startTime":1014.666,"endTime":1016.5,"body":"So yeah, it's all making sense to me now."},{"startTime":1016.5,"endTime":1018.066,"body":"My whole life is going to need a rethink"},{"startTime":1018.066,"endTime":1019.899,"body":"in light of the fact that I"},{"startTime":1019.899,"endTime":1021.1,"body":"had missed this until now."},{"startTime":1021.666,"endTime":1021.866,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1022.033,"endTime":1022.233,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1023.299,"endTime":1023.6,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1023.966,"endTime":1026.166,"body":"Let us at what is now the top of the"},{"startTime":1026.166,"endTime":1027.299,"body":"hour, but the bottom of"},{"startTime":1027.299,"endTime":1029.133,"body":"our starting hour, et cetera."},{"startTime":1029.433,"endTime":1030.7,"body":"It's the top of an hour."},{"startTime":1031.266,"endTime":1032.4,"body":"Yes, it is."},{"startTime":1033.233,"endTime":1034.566,"body":"You have the last one, right?"},{"startTime":1034.833,"endTime":1035.766,"body":"Did I write final?"},{"startTime":1036.566,"endTime":1037.533,"body":"Final, but I mean,"},{"startTime":1037.533,"endTime":1038.733,"body":"that could mean anything."},{"startTime":1038.733,"endTime":1040.533,"body":"Maybe it's the first one and things are"},{"startTime":1040.533,"endTime":1042.133,"body":"going to go very wrong after this."},{"startTime":1042.133,"endTime":1042.866,"body":"That's too bad."},{"startTime":1042.866,"endTime":1044.533,"body":"In which case I knew I was pressured"},{"startTime":1044.533,"endTime":1045.966,"body":"enough and yet I still handed it to you"},{"startTime":1045.966,"endTime":1047.166,"body":"and I'm sitting here next to you."},{"startTime":1047.5,"endTime":1048.566,"body":"There's, there's some reason"},{"startTime":1048.566,"endTime":1049.533,"body":"I want to go out with you."},{"startTime":1049.533,"endTime":1050.633,"body":"Love port."},{"startTime":1051.166,"endTime":1053.933,"body":"I knew that years ago, even if it was"},{"startTime":1053.933,"endTime":1055.9,"body":"surprising at the time, but no, I met, I"},{"startTime":1055.9,"endTime":1056.5,"body":"know what you meant."},{"startTime":1057.033,"endTime":1062.133,"body":"Our first sponsor this week is Branch"},{"startTime":1062.133,"endTime":1064.033,"body":"Basics, which this is"},{"startTime":1064.033,"endTime":1064.666,"body":"one of their products."},{"startTime":1064.666,"endTime":1067.566,"body":"They make simple, all natural, non-toxic"},{"startTime":1067.566,"endTime":1068.299,"body":"cleaning products,"},{"startTime":1068.299,"endTime":1069.099,"body":"and they are fantastic."},{"startTime":1069.333,"endTime":1069.866,"body":"They really are."},{"startTime":1069.866,"endTime":1071.466,"body":"We have been using branch basis cleaning"},{"startTime":1071.466,"endTime":1073.7,"body":"products for many, many months now, and"},{"startTime":1073.7,"endTime":1074.7,"body":"we love them more than ever."},{"startTime":1074.7,"endTime":1075.266,"body":"They are effective,"},{"startTime":1075.566,"endTime":1077.299,"body":"non-toxic, and easy to use."},{"startTime":1077.299,"endTime":1077.866,"body":"What more could you"},{"startTime":1077.866,"endTime":1078.666,"body":"want in cleaning products?"},{"startTime":1079.4,"endTime":1080.833,"body":"You prep food on your countertops, get"},{"startTime":1080.833,"endTime":1082.2,"body":"yourself clean in your shower, clean your"},{"startTime":1082.2,"endTime":1083.599,"body":"laundry in a machine full of detergent,"},{"startTime":1083.599,"endTime":1084.466,"body":"but do you know what you're actually"},{"startTime":1084.466,"endTime":1085.466,"body":"cleaning your home with?"},{"startTime":1085.966,"endTime":1087.333,"body":"Maybe you're doing some deep cleaning now"},{"startTime":1087.333,"endTime":1088.766,"body":"that it's spring, but if the products"},{"startTime":1088.766,"endTime":1089.9,"body":"you're cleaning with it themselves full"},{"startTime":1089.9,"endTime":1090.799,"body":"of toxins, that cleaning"},{"startTime":1090.799,"endTime":1092.733,"body":"isn't doing you any good."},{"startTime":1092.966,"endTime":1094.733,"body":"It's going to make things look cleaner"},{"startTime":1094.733,"endTime":1096.5,"body":"perhaps, but if the cleaning products"},{"startTime":1096.5,"endTime":1098.0,"body":"you're using are actually poisoning you,"},{"startTime":1098.4,"endTime":1100.033,"body":"that's not a net positive."},{"startTime":1100.766,"endTime":1102.366,"body":"Your home environment plays a big role in"},{"startTime":1102.366,"endTime":1103.5,"body":"how you feel, and you probably use"},{"startTime":1103.5,"endTime":1105.766,"body":"cleaning products every day, but do you"},{"startTime":1105.766,"endTime":1106.933,"body":"know what you're cleaning your home with"},{"startTime":1106.933,"endTime":1107.566,"body":"and how it might be"},{"startTime":1107.566,"endTime":1108.533,"body":"affecting how you feel?"},{"startTime":1108.933,"endTime":1110.433,"body":"Many products look clean, but contain"},{"startTime":1110.433,"endTime":1117.733,"body":"ingredients linked to hormone disruption,"},{"startTime":1118.233,"endTime":1120.033,"body":"skin irritation, and respiratory issues,"},{"startTime":1120.033,"endTime":1121.666,"body":"and because cleaning brands in the US"},{"startTime":1121.666,"endTime":1122.766,"body":"don't have to list everything they"},{"startTime":1122.766,"endTime":1123.633,"body":"contain, you don't really"},{"startTime":1123.633,"endTime":1124.666,"body":"know what's in your products."},{"startTime":1125.433,"endTime":1126.866,"body":"Branch Basics changes this with full"},{"startTime":1126.866,"endTime":1128.233,"body":"transparency about their entirely"},{"startTime":1128.233,"endTime":1129.766,"body":"non-toxic plant and"},{"startTime":1129.766,"endTime":1130.766,"body":"mineral based ingredients."},{"startTime":1131.366,"endTime":1132.866,"body":"Their premium starter kit comes with one"},{"startTime":1132.866,"endTime":1134.066,"body":"powerful concentrate that makes"},{"startTime":1134.066,"endTime":1136.099,"body":"everything, laundry detergent, bathroom"},{"startTime":1136.099,"endTime":1138.166,"body":"cleaner like this, glass cleaner, even"},{"startTime":1138.166,"endTime":1139.466,"body":"pet wash, and vegetable rinse."},{"startTime":1140.7,"endTime":1142.266,"body":"Just one plant and mineral based formula"},{"startTime":1142.266,"endTime":1143.666,"body":"replaces it all, and it's safe for"},{"startTime":1143.666,"endTime":1145.466,"body":"babies, pets, and anyone wanting to"},{"startTime":1145.466,"endTime":1146.799,"body":"reduce their daily exposure to harmful"},{"startTime":1146.799,"endTime":1149.533,"body":"chemicals now or at any time."},{"startTime":1150.2,"endTime":1151.666,"body":"Branch Basics ships us two products, a"},{"startTime":1151.666,"endTime":1153.466,"body":"concentrate and an oxygen boost, and the"},{"startTime":1153.466,"endTime":1154.766,"body":"shipment includes empty bottles that you"},{"startTime":1154.766,"endTime":1155.366,"body":"fill to different"},{"startTime":1155.366,"endTime":1156.666,"body":"concentrations for different jobs."},{"startTime":1157.466,"endTime":1158.799,"body":"When you run out, all you need to do is"},{"startTime":1158.799,"endTime":1160.466,"body":"restock the two products on their site or"},{"startTime":1160.466,"endTime":1162.466,"body":"on Amazon or at Target, and you're again"},{"startTime":1162.466,"endTime":1163.799,"body":"ready to clean everything in your home"},{"startTime":1163.799,"endTime":1165.599,"body":"from laundry to bathroom to countertops."},{"startTime":1166.566,"endTime":1167.566,"body":"Founded by three women on their own"},{"startTime":1167.566,"endTime":1169.066,"body":"personal health journeys, Branch Basics"},{"startTime":1169.066,"endTime":1170.599,"body":"was created out of a desire to heal."},{"startTime":1170.966,"endTime":1172.633,"body":"Through years of research, trial, and"},{"startTime":1172.633,"endTime":1174.266,"body":"error, the founders discovered the"},{"startTime":1174.266,"endTime":1176.366,"body":"powerful impact that removing toxins from"},{"startTime":1176.366,"endTime":1177.766,"body":"their environment had on their health,"},{"startTime":1178.099,"endTime":1178.966,"body":"and now they're on a mission"},{"startTime":1178.966,"endTime":1180.066,"body":"to help others do the same."},{"startTime":1180.833,"endTime":1181.7,"body":"And here's more good news."},{"startTime":1182.2,"endTime":1183.666,"body":"Branch Basics is now available everywhere"},{"startTime":1183.666,"endTime":1186.066,"body":"you shop at Target, target.com, Amazon,"},{"startTime":1186.366,"endTime":1188.133,"body":"and of course branchbasics.com."},{"startTime":1188.733,"endTime":1190.066,"body":"Tossing the toxins has never been more"},{"startTime":1190.066,"endTime":1191.966,"body":"convenient, and for anyone grabbing the"},{"startTime":1191.966,"endTime":1193.566,"body":"premium starter kit, you can still get"},{"startTime":1193.566,"endTime":1194.566,"body":"15% off at"},{"startTime":1194.566,"endTime":1196.466,"body":"branchbasics.com with code DARKHORSE."},{"startTime":1197.233,"endTime":1199.566,"body":"Just use code DARKHORSE for 15% off the"},{"startTime":1199.566,"endTime":1201.833,"body":"premium starter kit at branchbasics.com."},{"startTime":1202.299,"endTime":1203.7,"body":"After you purchase, when they ask what"},{"startTime":1203.7,"endTime":1204.666,"body":"you heard about them, please"},{"startTime":1204.666,"endTime":1206.7,"body":"make sure to mention our show."},{"startTime":1206.7,"endTime":1207.966,"body":"It's really good stuff, and"},{"startTime":1207.966,"endTime":1209.866,"body":"I'm actually using it right now."},{"startTime":1210.833,"endTime":1211.766,"body":"I'm doing a load of laundry."},{"startTime":1213.866,"endTime":1216.0,"body":"Just, you know, just as a matter of human"},{"startTime":1216.0,"endTime":1217.533,"body":"interest and laundry interest."},{"startTime":1219.2,"endTime":1220.133,"body":"Go on."},{"startTime":1221.333,"endTime":1222.966,"body":"You are actually."},{"startTime":1222.966,"endTime":1223.833,"body":"Yes, I am using it"},{"startTime":1223.833,"endTime":1225.033,"body":"right now, and it's great."},{"startTime":1225.233,"endTime":1226.233,"body":"You put it in and you think,"},{"startTime":1226.566,"endTime":1228.366,"body":"hey, I don't smell anything."},{"startTime":1228.366,"endTime":1230.599,"body":"It's transparent, both at the level of"},{"startTime":1230.599,"endTime":1232.066,"body":"the business and the liquid."},{"startTime":1232.066,"endTime":1233.166,"body":"It's good stuff."},{"startTime":1233.566,"endTime":1233.766,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1234.266,"endTime":1235.233,"body":"And your clothes end up clean."},{"startTime":1235.466,"endTime":1235.666,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1235.933,"endTime":1236.533,"body":"Which is a plus."},{"startTime":1236.733,"endTime":1237.233,"body":"They do."},{"startTime":1237.233,"endTime":1237.966,"body":"It's great stuff."},{"startTime":1239.766,"endTime":1241.599,"body":"Our second sponsor for"},{"startTime":1241.599,"endTime":1242.733,"body":"this episode is Puori."},{"startTime":1243.233,"endTime":1245.033,"body":"Puori makes a wide array of supplements"},{"startTime":1245.033,"endTime":1247.4,"body":"and powders from vitamin C, magnesium,"},{"startTime":1247.666,"endTime":1249.066,"body":"and B complex to creatine,"},{"startTime":1249.066,"endTime":1250.233,"body":"collagen, and protein powders."},{"startTime":1250.599,"endTime":1252.333,"body":"I've actually written protein powers, but"},{"startTime":1252.333,"endTime":1253.533,"body":"that's not one of their products."},{"startTime":1253.533,"endTime":1254.433,"body":"It's protein powders."},{"startTime":1255.166,"endTime":1255.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1255.433,"endTime":1256.866,"body":"What makes Puori different is how clean"},{"startTime":1256.866,"endTime":1257.566,"body":"and pure all of their"},{"startTime":1257.566,"endTime":1258.866,"body":"products are, all of them."},{"startTime":1260.166,"endTime":1262.299,"body":"Puori was founded in 2009 by two men who"},{"startTime":1262.299,"endTime":1263.666,"body":"set out to create the cleanest and purest"},{"startTime":1263.666,"endTime":1264.566,"body":"products to support"},{"startTime":1264.566,"endTime":1265.666,"body":"their own active lifestyles."},{"startTime":1266.4,"endTime":1267.833,"body":"Since then, their product portfolio has"},{"startTime":1267.833,"endTime":1269.166,"body":"grown to address common nutritional"},{"startTime":1269.166,"endTime":1270.566,"body":"deficiencies in the developed world."},{"startTime":1271.233,"endTime":1272.666,"body":"Knowing that health requires a good diet,"},{"startTime":1272.866,"endTime":1274.799,"body":"physical activity, recovery, and balance,"},{"startTime":1275.233,"endTime":1276.833,"body":"the founders of Puori have rejected quick"},{"startTime":1276.833,"endTime":1278.833,"body":"fixes from the very beginning and insist"},{"startTime":1278.833,"endTime":1280.466,"body":"on the most stringent Puority testing on"},{"startTime":1280.466,"endTime":1281.266,"body":"all of their products."},{"startTime":1282.2,"endTime":1283.2,"body":"We use Puori's vitamin"},{"startTime":1283.2,"endTime":1284.266,"body":"D, which is excellent."},{"startTime":1284.866,"endTime":1285.799,"body":"My mom is using their"},{"startTime":1285.799,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"multivitamins in fish oil."},{"startTime":1287.466,"endTime":1288.666,"body":"Like all of Puori's products, these"},{"startTime":1288.666,"endTime":1290.066,"body":"products are third party tested and"},{"startTime":1290.066,"endTime":1291.666,"body":"certified by the Clean Label Project"},{"startTime":1291.666,"endTime":1293.333,"body":"against over 200 contaminants."},{"startTime":1294.133,"endTime":1295.566,"body":"You can scan the QR code on your bottle"},{"startTime":1295.566,"endTime":1296.566,"body":"anytime for the test"},{"startTime":1296.566,"endTime":1297.933,"body":"results for your particular batch."},{"startTime":1298.633,"endTime":1300.133,"body":"Our son Toby has been making protein"},{"startTime":1300.133,"endTime":1301.466,"body":"enriched smoothies for a couple of years"},{"startTime":1301.466,"endTime":1303.266,"body":"now, but has had a hard time finding a"},{"startTime":1303.266,"endTime":1304.266,"body":"protein powder that he liked."},{"startTime":1304.799,"endTime":1306.166,"body":"Most of them are strongly flavored and"},{"startTime":1306.166,"endTime":1307.266,"body":"gritty, but he wanted one that would"},{"startTime":1307.266,"endTime":1308.566,"body":"disappear into his shake, letting the"},{"startTime":1308.566,"endTime":1309.433,"body":"other flavors shine."},{"startTime":1310.266,"endTime":1314.233,"body":"Now at 19, now at 20, yep, he has found"},{"startTime":1314.233,"endTime":1315.7,"body":"his protein powder, Puori's"},{"startTime":1315.7,"endTime":1317.133,"body":"grass fed whey protein powder."},{"startTime":1317.133,"endTime":1318.533,"body":"He says, \"Out of all the protein powders"},{"startTime":1318.566,"endTime":1319.633,"body":"I've tried, this is the best."},{"startTime":1319.966,"endTime":1320.966,"body":"The flavor is mild."},{"startTime":1320.966,"endTime":1322.233,"body":"It doesn't intrude on the other flavors."},{"startTime":1322.233,"endTime":1323.566,"body":"It's smooth going down and is full of"},{"startTime":1323.566,"endTime":1324.266,"body":"great whey protein.\""},{"startTime":1325.033,"endTime":1326.4,"body":"Most protein powders aren't"},{"startTime":1326.4,"endTime":1327.366,"body":"just greedy and artificial."},{"startTime":1327.599,"endTime":1328.366,"body":"They're actually toxic."},{"startTime":1329.033,"endTime":1330.4,"body":"Several studies, including those done by"},{"startTime":1330.4,"endTime":1331.933,"body":"Consumer Reports, show that a significant"},{"startTime":1331.933,"endTime":1333.366,"body":"fraction of protein powders on the market"},{"startTime":1333.366,"endTime":1335.233,"body":"contain lead in amounts"},{"startTime":1335.233,"endTime":1336.133,"body":"that are known to be dangerous."},{"startTime":1336.533,"endTime":1337.833,"body":"You shouldn't be eating lead at all, much"},{"startTime":1337.833,"endTime":1339.066,"body":"less than a supplement you're taking to"},{"startTime":1339.066,"endTime":1339.733,"body":"improve your health."},{"startTime":1340.233,"endTime":1342.566,"body":"Not only is Puori whey protein powder free"},{"startTime":1342.566,"endTime":1344.5,"body":"of lead, it also delivers a whopping 21"},{"startTime":1344.5,"endTime":1346.733,"body":"grams of whey protein in each serving."},{"startTime":1348.033,"endTime":1349.966,"body":"I'm going to blame the pollen for my"},{"startTime":1349.966,"endTime":1351.233,"body":"reading capacity today."},{"startTime":1352.666,"endTime":1355.0,"body":"And Puori's whey protein powder is free of"},{"startTime":1355.0,"endTime":1357.333,"body":"GMOs, pesticides, and exogenous hormones."},{"startTime":1358.133,"endTime":1359.566,"body":"Our son Toby loves the bourbon vanilla"},{"startTime":1359.566,"endTime":1360.733,"body":"flavor, but they've also got a dark"},{"startTime":1360.733,"endTime":1361.466,"body":"chocolate flavor made"},{"startTime":1361.466,"endTime":1362.599,"body":"from organic cocoa powder."},{"startTime":1363.166,"endTime":1364.633,"body":"Whether you're looking for magnesium or a"},{"startTime":1364.633,"endTime":1366.066,"body":"multivitamin, collagen, or protein"},{"startTime":1366.066,"endTime":1367.633,"body":"powder, you can't go wrong with Puori."},{"startTime":1368.099,"endTime":1370.166,"body":"Use code DARKHORSE at Puori.com slash"},{"startTime":1370.166,"endTime":1372.7,"body":"darkhorse to get 32% off Puori."},{"startTime":1372.7,"endTime":1374.4,"body":"That's P-U-O-R-I."},{"startTime":1374.866,"endTime":1376.7,"body":"Puori grass-fed whey protein when you"},{"startTime":1376.7,"endTime":1377.366,"body":"start a subscription."},{"startTime":1377.966,"endTime":1379.733,"body":"In addition, you get a free shaker worth"},{"startTime":1379.733,"endTime":1382.633,"body":"$25 on your first subscription order,"},{"startTime":1382.833,"endTime":1384.799,"body":"which brings your total savings to $49."},{"startTime":1385.4,"endTime":1389.766,"body":"Go to p-u-o-r-i.com slash darkhorse and"},{"startTime":1389.766,"endTime":1391.366,"body":"use the code DARKHORSE at checkout for"},{"startTime":1391.366,"endTime":1392.733,"body":"this exclusive offer."},{"startTime":1393.066,"endTime":1394.733,"body":"We should change that script to say"},{"startTime":1394.733,"endTime":1396.933,"body":"\"protein forward smoothies.\""},{"startTime":1396.933,"endTime":1397.833,"body":"I think it's way cooler."},{"startTime":1399.066,"endTime":1399.433,"body":"Do you?"},{"startTime":1399.666,"endTime":1399.866,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1399.866,"endTime":1400.433,"body":"You might want to check"},{"startTime":1400.433,"endTime":1401.433,"body":"with your Gen Z children."},{"startTime":1402.466,"endTime":1404.333,"body":"Well, they will undoubtedly think it's"},{"startTime":1404.333,"endTime":1405.733,"body":"not cooler, if only because"},{"startTime":1405.733,"endTime":1407.533,"body":"that's not how they are."},{"startTime":1407.533,"endTime":1408.633,"body":"That's not how they are at all."},{"startTime":1409.666,"endTime":1411.266,"body":"Well, they will think undoubtedly it's"},{"startTime":1411.266,"endTime":1413.0,"body":"uncool because they're Gen Z and speak a"},{"startTime":1413.0,"endTime":1413.833,"body":"foreign language, but..."},{"startTime":1413.966,"endTime":1415.166,"body":"That's also not how they are."},{"startTime":1416.633,"endTime":1419.7,"body":"I mean, there's foreign jargon, for sure."},{"startTime":1419.7,"endTime":1420.466,"body":"Oh, there's some jargon."},{"startTime":1421.033,"endTime":1421.233,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1421.433,"endTime":1421.633,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1422.933,"endTime":1424.299,"body":"And they speak a whole different language"},{"startTime":1424.299,"endTime":1426.033,"body":"at the level of emojis and"},{"startTime":1426.033,"endTime":1427.799,"body":"pictures that they send in text."},{"startTime":1428.433,"endTime":1428.866,"body":"Crazy stuff."},{"startTime":1429.133,"endTime":1429.633,"body":"Fair enough."},{"startTime":1429.633,"endTime":1429.933,"body":"The pictures."},{"startTime":1431.466,"endTime":1431.666,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1432.099,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1432.299,"endTime":1435.033,"body":"Our final sponsor, Heather, is MUD/WTR."},{"startTime":1435.666,"endTime":1438.2,"body":"That's MUD/WTR spelled without the X."},{"startTime":1441.033,"endTime":1441.233,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1441.766,"endTime":1444.433,"body":"M-U-D slash W-T-R."},{"startTime":1445.0,"endTime":1445.933,"body":"No X in sight."},{"startTime":1446.733,"endTime":1448.533,"body":"If you like the routine of making and"},{"startTime":1448.533,"endTime":1450.166,"body":"drinking a cup of warmth in the morning,"},{"startTime":1450.166,"endTime":1451.933,"body":"but you don't drink coffee or trying to"},{"startTime":1451.933,"endTime":1452.566,"body":"cut down on your"},{"startTime":1452.566,"endTime":1454.166,"body":"coffee intake, try MUD/WTR."},{"startTime":1454.433,"endTime":1456.133,"body":"If you're looking for a different way to"},{"startTime":1456.133,"endTime":1457.566,"body":"kick off your day with a delicious,"},{"startTime":1457.599,"endTime":1460.366,"body":"warming, enhancing drink, try MUD/WTR."},{"startTime":1460.833,"endTime":1462.599,"body":"MUD/WTR makes fantastic products."},{"startTime":1462.833,"endTime":1464.733,"body":"Their original, super functional coffee"},{"startTime":1464.733,"endTime":1467.099,"body":"alternative has a beautiful list of"},{"startTime":1467.099,"endTime":1469.9,"body":"ingredients that includes cacao and chai"},{"startTime":1469.9,"endTime":1472.566,"body":"for just a hint of caffeine, lion's mane"},{"startTime":1472.566,"endTime":1474.7,"body":"mushrooms to support focus, cordyceps to"},{"startTime":1474.7,"endTime":1476.566,"body":"help you support physical performance."},{"startTime":1476.799,"endTime":1477.866,"body":"Are you having a glass?"},{"startTime":1477.866,"endTime":1478.599,"body":"I want you to smell it."},{"startTime":1479.333,"endTime":1480.433,"body":"It smells great."},{"startTime":1480.433,"endTime":1480.633,"body":"It smells so good."},{"startTime":1480.633,"endTime":1481.033,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1481.033,"endTime":1484.266,"body":"Gaga and Rishi to"},{"startTime":1484.266,"endTime":1486.133,"body":"support your immune system."},{"startTime":1486.133,"endTime":1486.733,"body":"Should you have one?"},{"startTime":1487.966,"endTime":1488.933,"body":"Trees don't have one."},{"startTime":1489.799,"endTime":1491.733,"body":"So anyway, you probably do."},{"startTime":1492.133,"endTime":1493.666,"body":"You're ad-libbing again, aren't you?"},{"startTime":1494.733,"endTime":1496.166,"body":"Not well, but you know,"},{"startTime":1496.166,"endTime":1497.033,"body":"there's a certain amount."},{"startTime":1498.033,"endTime":1498.233,"body":"Cinnamon."},{"startTime":1498.599,"endTime":1499.366,"body":"Should you have one?"},{"startTime":1499.866,"endTime":1501.866,"body":"If you don't have one, you should not"},{"startTime":1501.866,"endTime":1504.333,"body":"engage with any products at all."},{"startTime":1504.933,"endTime":1505.433,"body":"How about that?"},{"startTime":1506.2,"endTime":1507.166,"body":"If you don't have an immune system."},{"startTime":1507.433,"endTime":1509.266,"body":"No, a tree could engage with ornaments."},{"startTime":1509.266,"endTime":1510.633,"body":"There's lots of products for trees."},{"startTime":1510.633,"endTime":1510.933,"body":"I'm sure."},{"startTime":1511.266,"endTime":1511.933,"body":"Trees don't have money"},{"startTime":1511.933,"endTime":1513.066,"body":"with which to buy products."},{"startTime":1513.833,"endTime":1516.466,"body":"You buy them as gifts for the trees as"},{"startTime":1516.466,"endTime":1517.466,"body":"I'm led to understand."},{"startTime":1518.633,"endTime":1520.933,"body":"That's their, that's their original"},{"startTime":1520.933,"endTime":1522.566,"body":"coffee alternative, but MUD/WTR."},{"startTime":1522.933,"endTime":1523.433,"body":"MUD/WTR."},{"startTime":1523.733,"endTime":1523.933,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1524.166,"endTime":1526.366,"body":"Let's just get back to like starting in"},{"startTime":1526.366,"endTime":1526.866,"body":"the middle after"},{"startTime":1526.866,"endTime":1528.066,"body":"talking about tree trees."},{"startTime":1528.366,"endTime":1530.0,"body":"We're talking about MUD/WTR for people"},{"startTime":1530.0,"endTime":1532.0,"body":"with immune systems who might want to"},{"startTime":1532.0,"endTime":1533.933,"body":"augment them with Chaga and Rishi."},{"startTime":1534.166,"endTime":1535.066,"body":"See, I'm paying attention."},{"startTime":1535.633,"endTime":1537.4,"body":"That's their original coffee alternative."},{"startTime":1538.033,"endTime":1540.033,"body":"They're referring to MUD/WTR, but"},{"startTime":1540.033,"endTime":1542.333,"body":"MUD/WTR also makes a matcha coffee"},{"startTime":1542.333,"endTime":1543.866,"body":"alternative, which is like their"},{"startTime":1543.866,"endTime":1545.2,"body":"original, but has matcha"},{"startTime":1545.2,"endTime":1547.066,"body":"instead of cacao and cinnamon too."},{"startTime":1547.433,"endTime":1547.633,"body":"Wait."},{"startTime":1548.333,"endTime":1549.633,"body":"Has matcha instead of"},{"startTime":1549.633,"endTime":1551.7,"body":"cacao and cinnamon too."},{"startTime":1552.466,"endTime":1552.733,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1553.333,"endTime":1555.366,"body":"And MUD/WTR also makes mushroom coffee"},{"startTime":1555.533,"endTime":1556.7,"body":"with their Arabica coffee."},{"startTime":1556.7,"endTime":1558.799,"body":"Plus all the mushrooms already mentioned,"},{"startTime":1559.066,"endTime":1559.599,"body":"lion's mane and"},{"startTime":1559.599,"endTime":1561.066,"body":"cordyceps, Chaga and Rishi."},{"startTime":1562.033,"endTime":1562.533,"body":"I think it's Rishi."},{"startTime":1563.433,"endTime":1563.866,"body":"It's what?"},{"startTime":1564.333,"endTime":1564.966,"body":"I think it's Rishi."},{"startTime":1565.433,"endTime":1565.833,"body":"Rishi?"},{"startTime":1565.833,"endTime":1566.2,"body":"Rishi."},{"startTime":1566.966,"endTime":1567.366,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1567.633,"endTime":1568.266,"body":"Oh, it's Rishi."},{"startTime":1568.466,"endTime":1568.666,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1570.299,"endTime":1571.166,"body":"Sounds good to me."},{"startTime":1571.433,"endTime":1572.233,"body":"I mean, you know,"},{"startTime":1572.233,"endTime":1573.166,"body":"protein forward and all."},{"startTime":1574.366,"endTime":1575.799,"body":"They've got a turmeric."},{"startTime":1576.166,"endTime":1576.533,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":1578.9,"endTime":1581.633,"body":"Next sentence, I swear says they've got a"},{"startTime":1581.633,"endTime":1584.466,"body":"turmeric forward drink that is caffeine"},{"startTime":1584.466,"endTime":1586.666,"body":"free and has the same mushrooms plus"},{"startTime":1586.666,"endTime":1589.099,"body":"ginger, cinnamon and wait for it."},{"startTime":1589.5,"endTime":1590.333,"body":"Bayobab, really?"},{"startTime":1590.633,"endTime":1590.866,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1591.366,"endTime":1591.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1591.833,"endTime":1592.7,"body":"So we we haven't actually"},{"startTime":1592.7,"endTime":1593.733,"body":"tried this turmeric one."},{"startTime":1593.733,"endTime":1594.566,"body":"I went I went on their site,"},{"startTime":1594.566,"endTime":1595.433,"body":"spent some time on their site."},{"startTime":1595.433,"endTime":1596.866,"body":"We've had we've had a couple of their"},{"startTime":1596.866,"endTime":1599.533,"body":"stuff, a couple of their flavors, their"},{"startTime":1599.533,"endTime":1600.933,"body":"their products, and they're great."},{"startTime":1601.766,"endTime":1603.266,"body":"But they've got a bunch more now,"},{"startTime":1603.266,"endTime":1604.366,"body":"including the turmeric one."},{"startTime":1604.666,"endTime":1605.933,"body":"And I just had to mention it."},{"startTime":1605.933,"endTime":1607.866,"body":"And yes, turmeric forward because"},{"startTime":1607.866,"endTime":1609.433,"body":"literally has Bayobab in it."},{"startTime":1609.633,"endTime":1611.433,"body":"It must be Bayobab fruits."},{"startTime":1612.133,"endTime":1613.566,"body":"I actually I can I can look it up."},{"startTime":1613.566,"endTime":1616.133,"body":"I wish it was Bayobab root because then"},{"startTime":1616.133,"endTime":1617.666,"body":"you could say Bayobab"},{"startTime":1617.666,"endTime":1618.933,"body":"root, which is at the top."},{"startTime":1620.166,"endTime":1621.333,"body":"Well, it's not, but"},{"startTime":1621.333,"endTime":1622.033,"body":"it's not."},{"startTime":1622.366,"endTime":1624.566,"body":"But the the thing about Bayobabs is that"},{"startTime":1624.566,"endTime":1626.799,"body":"people describe them as being upside down"},{"startTime":1626.799,"endTime":1628.266,"body":"because they look like they have the"},{"startTime":1628.266,"endTime":1629.166,"body":"roots at the top anyway."},{"startTime":1629.433,"endTime":1630.666,"body":"I mean, extraordinary trees."},{"startTime":1630.666,"endTime":1631.833,"body":"We've seen them in Madagascar and they're"},{"startTime":1631.833,"endTime":1632.666,"body":"also in East Africa."},{"startTime":1633.0,"endTime":1634.366,"body":"I feel like buying them a gift."},{"startTime":1634.366,"endTime":1636.366,"body":"I don't want to or the Bayobabs."},{"startTime":1636.633,"endTime":1638.033,"body":"Bayobabs ornaments,"},{"startTime":1638.033,"endTime":1639.433,"body":"something to put on the roots."},{"startTime":1640.266,"endTime":1642.633,"body":"Yes, I don't know what the Bayobab is"},{"startTime":1642.633,"endTime":1644.266,"body":"doing in there, but I'm intrigued."},{"startTime":1644.466,"endTime":1645.333,"body":"Heather wrote that."},{"startTime":1645.333,"endTime":1646.566,"body":"I'm also intrigued, however."},{"startTime":1647.766,"endTime":1649.633,"body":"And they've got a drink they call Rest,"},{"startTime":1650.433,"endTime":1652.166,"body":"which has roibos tea,"},{"startTime":1652.599,"endTime":1654.666,"body":"valerian root, turkey tail."},{"startTime":1654.666,"endTime":1657.2,"body":"That's a mushroom and ashwagandha, a"},{"startTime":1657.2,"endTime":1658.4,"body":"place I've always wanted to go."},{"startTime":1659.033,"endTime":1660.833,"body":"Chamomile and passion flower."},{"startTime":1662.566,"endTime":1663.666,"body":"There's more, too."},{"startTime":1664.033,"endTime":1666.9,"body":"So there's more, Kama, too."},{"startTime":1667.333,"endTime":1670.866,"body":"So you, that's you, go to MUD/WTR and"},{"startTime":1670.866,"endTime":1672.566,"body":"find exactly what you're looking for."},{"startTime":1672.566,"endTime":1673.966,"body":"Every single ingredient in their products"},{"startTime":1673.966,"endTime":1676.466,"body":"is a hundred percent USDA organic,"},{"startTime":1676.733,"endTime":1679.299,"body":"non-vmo, gluten free and vegan."},{"startTime":1679.766,"endTime":1680.533,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1680.533,"endTime":1682.166,"body":"Their ingredients do not eat meat."},{"startTime":1683.066,"endTime":1683.766,"body":"MUD/WTR's."},{"startTime":1683.766,"endTime":1684.566,"body":"Second order vegan, too."},{"startTime":1685.966,"endTime":1686.266,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1686.533,"endTime":1688.433,"body":"For all you second order vegans out"},{"startTime":1688.433,"endTime":1690.066,"body":"there, that is people who"},{"startTime":1690.066,"endTime":1691.433,"body":"eat animals that eat plants."},{"startTime":1692.066,"endTime":1700.466,"body":"MUD/WTR's original flavor is warm and"},{"startTime":1700.466,"endTime":1702.166,"body":"spicy with a hint of chocolate plus"},{"startTime":1702.4,"endTime":1704.733,"body":"masala chai, which includes ginger and"},{"startTime":1704.733,"endTime":1706.333,"body":"cinnamon, nutmeg and cloves."},{"startTime":1706.333,"endTime":1711.233,"body":"It's also delicious blended into a"},{"startTime":1711.233,"endTime":1713.166,"body":"smoothie, protein forward or not."},{"startTime":1713.733,"endTime":1716.666,"body":"Try it with banana and ice, milk or"},{"startTime":1716.666,"endTime":1719.066,"body":"milk-like substance, mint, a touch of"},{"startTime":1719.066,"endTime":1721.133,"body":"honey and cacao and nibs."},{"startTime":1721.466,"endTime":1723.666,"body":"This is delicious and italics."},{"startTime":1723.666,"endTime":1725.166,"body":"We've gotten to the point where you"},{"startTime":1725.166,"endTime":1726.933,"body":"happened to point along"},{"startTime":1726.933,"endTime":1728.666,"body":"with this, you were even sorry."},{"startTime":1729.733,"endTime":1731.833,"body":"I just, I know it's been a long few days."},{"startTime":1731.833,"endTime":1733.666,"body":"The funny part is if I was reading this"},{"startTime":1733.666,"endTime":1735.333,"body":"to myself, I would have to read it out"},{"startTime":1735.333,"endTime":1736.4,"body":"loud like this just to"},{"startTime":1736.4,"endTime":1737.366,"body":"understand what it says."},{"startTime":1738.233,"endTime":1738.866,"body":"That's too big of a"},{"startTime":1738.866,"endTime":1739.866,"body":"confession, but it's true."},{"startTime":1740.7,"endTime":1741.366,"body":"Ready to make the"},{"startTime":1741.366,"endTime":1742.866,"body":"switch to cleaner energy?"},{"startTime":1743.266,"endTime":1745.633,"body":"Head to MUD/WTR.com."},{"startTime":1745.633,"endTime":1747.9,"body":"That's M-U-D-W-T-R dot com"},{"startTime":1747.9,"endTime":1749.433,"body":"and grab your starter kit today."},{"startTime":1749.633,"endTime":1751.266,"body":"Right now our listeners get an exclusive"},{"startTime":1751.266,"endTime":1754.133,"body":"deal up to 43% off starter kits, plus"},{"startTime":1754.133,"endTime":1756.866,"body":"free shipping and free rechargeable"},{"startTime":1756.866,"endTime":1759.433,"body":"frother when you use the code DARKHORSE."},{"startTime":1759.633,"endTime":1760.066,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1760.066,"endTime":1763.099,"body":"Up to 43% off with the code DARKHORSE at"},{"startTime":1763.099,"endTime":1765.333,"body":"M-U-D-W-T-R dot com."},{"startTime":1765.333,"endTime":1766.366,"body":"After your purchase,"},{"startTime":1766.366,"endTime":1767.866,"body":"they'll ask how you found them."},{"startTime":1768.133,"endTime":1770.333,"body":"Please show your support and let them"},{"startTime":1770.333,"endTime":1771.833,"body":"know we sent you that's"},{"startTime":1771.833,"endTime":1773.933,"body":"darkhorse also without an X."},{"startTime":1778.133,"endTime":1778.266,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1778.766,"endTime":1778.966,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1779.766,"endTime":1780.833,"body":"Back to earth."},{"startTime":1781.533,"endTime":1781.933,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1781.933,"endTime":1782.133,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1782.666,"endTime":1783.433,"body":"Now at the bottom of the"},{"startTime":1783.433,"endTime":1785.533,"body":"hour again, we are ready to go."},{"startTime":1785.533,"endTime":1786.033,"body":"I don't think so."},{"startTime":1786.266,"endTime":1786.599,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1786.833,"endTime":1787.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1787.4,"endTime":1789.033,"body":"I mean, we're cruising towards it."},{"startTime":1789.033,"endTime":1789.866,"body":"I mean, I think, you know,"},{"startTime":1790.033,"endTime":1792.2,"body":"we had fun, but it took time."},{"startTime":1793.166,"endTime":1793.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1794.566,"endTime":1796.233,"body":"Well, so back to earth, actually, let's,"},{"startTime":1796.266,"endTime":1797.766,"body":"can we talk a little"},{"startTime":1797.766,"endTime":1798.833,"body":"bit about Artemis too?"},{"startTime":1799.933,"endTime":1800.133,"body":"Please."},{"startTime":1800.266,"endTime":1800.466,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1801.366,"endTime":1803.233,"body":"I don't have a ton to"},{"startTime":1803.233,"endTime":1804.533,"body":"say about the actual"},{"startTime":1806.0,"endTime":1806.566,"body":"expedition,"},{"startTime":1808.333,"endTime":1810.666,"body":"but I'm excited by it."},{"startTime":1810.833,"endTime":1815.5,"body":"We were both born early enough in 1969"},{"startTime":1816.566,"endTime":1819.033,"body":"to have been part of sort of the space"},{"startTime":1819.033,"endTime":1820.933,"body":"age, the American space age, watching"},{"startTime":1820.933,"endTime":1823.0,"body":"from care, give my effect"},{"startTime":1823.0,"endTime":1825.533,"body":"in my case, my father's lap."},{"startTime":1825.533,"endTime":1826.466,"body":"And in your case, one"},{"startTime":1826.466,"endTime":1827.666,"body":"of your grandfather's."},{"startTime":1827.666,"endTime":1828.433,"body":"I think it was my grandmother."},{"startTime":1830.733,"endTime":1832.266,"body":"So, you know, going back"},{"startTime":1832.266,"endTime":1833.033,"body":"to space, it's exciting."},{"startTime":1833.666,"endTime":1834.099,"body":"It's exciting."},{"startTime":1835.733,"endTime":1838.333,"body":"And, you know, NASA is one of those"},{"startTime":1838.333,"endTime":1839.466,"body":"agencies that I'm"},{"startTime":1839.466,"endTime":1840.366,"body":"sure there's corruption."},{"startTime":1840.366,"endTime":1841.9,"body":"I'm sure there's incompetence, but it's"},{"startTime":1841.9,"endTime":1844.266,"body":"just one of those federal agencies that"},{"startTime":1844.266,"endTime":1845.833,"body":"I'm mostly very excited about."},{"startTime":1846.733,"endTime":1848.566,"body":"And, you know,"},{"startTime":1849.9,"endTime":1851.666,"body":"we didn't share last week that the"},{"startTime":1851.666,"endTime":1852.933,"body":"internet failed midway."},{"startTime":1853.299,"endTime":1854.833,"body":"And although we were still ethernetted"},{"startTime":1854.833,"endTime":1855.7,"body":"into live stream, my"},{"startTime":1855.7,"endTime":1857.066,"body":"computer stopped connecting."},{"startTime":1857.066,"endTime":1858.766,"body":"And so I had to do a bunch of stuff."},{"startTime":1859.5,"endTime":1862.4,"body":"It seems to really not be playing ball"},{"startTime":1862.4,"endTime":1864.799,"body":"with me again, but maybe"},{"startTime":1864.799,"endTime":1866.133,"body":"I already have this Q Dev."},{"startTime":1866.133,"endTime":1866.566,"body":"Oh, here we go."},{"startTime":1867.266,"endTime":1868.5,"body":"So hopefully I'm not going to be able to"},{"startTime":1868.5,"endTime":1869.533,"body":"change the size of this."},{"startTime":1869.533,"endTime":1870.333,"body":"Can you see my screen?"},{"startTime":1870.333,"endTime":1871.033,"body":"Of course you can."},{"startTime":1872.333,"endTime":1873.266,"body":"There we go."},{"startTime":1875.533,"endTime":1879.7,"body":"In light of Artemis 2, The Guardian, a"},{"startTime":1879.7,"endTime":1882.133,"body":"few days ago, published this op-ed called"},{"startTime":1882.133,"endTime":1883.366,"body":"Let's Stop Going Into Space."},{"startTime":1883.366,"endTime":1884.033,"body":"There's Nothing to See"},{"startTime":1884.033,"endTime":1884.966,"body":"and No One to Talk To."},{"startTime":1887.166,"endTime":1889.933,"body":"I mean, I hate this, but"},{"startTime":1889.933,"endTime":1891.066,"body":"of course it's by woman."},{"startTime":1891.766,"endTime":1892.799,"body":"Like, I don't think any man"},{"startTime":1892.799,"endTime":1893.933,"body":"would put their name to such."},{"startTime":1893.933,"endTime":1895.366,"body":"I mean, the headline is never written by"},{"startTime":1895.366,"endTime":1897.833,"body":"the person whose piece it is."},{"startTime":1898.066,"endTime":1898.133,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1900.733,"endTime":1902.066,"body":"I'm going to read a little bit of this,"},{"startTime":1902.066,"endTime":1905.533,"body":"but just to preempt the insanity, and"},{"startTime":1905.533,"endTime":1907.066,"body":"it's a short piece, and maybe I'll just"},{"startTime":1907.066,"endTime":1907.966,"body":"read the whole thing."},{"startTime":1908.966,"endTime":1912.066,"body":"Exploration and curiosity and openness"},{"startTime":1912.066,"endTime":1914.866,"body":"and innovation are what we are about."},{"startTime":1915.466,"endTime":1916.933,"body":"That's what humanity is."},{"startTime":1917.666,"endTime":1921.066,"body":"The idea that, and frankly, it's like a"},{"startTime":1921.066,"endTime":1925.166,"body":"female coded version of the tech bro, we"},{"startTime":1925.166,"endTime":1926.366,"body":"got it, man, we know"},{"startTime":1926.366,"endTime":1927.333,"body":"exactly what we're going to do."},{"startTime":1927.333,"endTime":1928.266,"body":"We're going to be data-driven"},{"startTime":1928.266,"endTime":1932.333,"body":"confusion over in that space."},{"startTime":1932.666,"endTime":1934.099,"body":"It's the same thing."},{"startTime":1934.099,"endTime":1935.799,"body":"I already know what I'm interested in."},{"startTime":1935.799,"endTime":1937.066,"body":"I already know what there is to know."},{"startTime":1937.066,"endTime":1938.4,"body":"There is nothing new under the sun."},{"startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1940.033,"body":"Who cares?"},{"startTime":1941.333,"endTime":1944.099,"body":"I'm going to drill down with numbers, or"},{"startTime":1944.099,"endTime":1946.366,"body":"I'm going to only look for the things I"},{"startTime":1946.366,"endTime":1948.5,"body":"already know, and I only know what I want"},{"startTime":1948.5,"endTime":1949.566,"body":"to see and who I want to talk to."},{"startTime":1950.333,"endTime":1952.366,"body":"It's so constricting"},{"startTime":1952.366,"endTime":1956.233,"body":"and enfeebling and sad."},{"startTime":1957.166,"endTime":1957.7,"body":"It's those things."},{"startTime":1958.666,"endTime":1960.066,"body":"Here's what she has to say."},{"startTime":1961.333,"endTime":1962.266,"body":"She says, \"I have nothing against"},{"startTime":1962.266,"endTime":1964.4,"body":"astronauts or scientific innovation, but"},{"startTime":1964.4,"endTime":1965.766,"body":"what's the point of Artemis 2?\""},{"startTime":1967.133,"endTime":1968.466,"body":"I'm going to try to"},{"startTime":1968.466,"endTime":1969.566,"body":"make this bigger and..."},{"startTime":1971.266,"endTime":1972.566,"body":"God, it failed me."},{"startTime":1972.833,"endTime":1974.233,"body":"Let's see if I can get in this way."},{"startTime":1976.166,"endTime":1976.766,"body":"Yes, good."},{"startTime":1977.266,"endTime":1979.533,"body":"It is absolutely self-evident to me that"},{"startTime":1979.533,"endTime":1981.733,"body":"space exploration is pointless, and the"},{"startTime":1981.733,"endTime":1983.233,"body":"more urgent the crisis besetting this"},{"startTime":1983.233,"endTime":1984.099,"body":"planet we live on, the"},{"startTime":1984.099,"endTime":1985.099,"body":"more pointless it becomes."},{"startTime":1985.866,"endTime":1987.566,"body":"I can see why people got excited about it"},{"startTime":1987.566,"endTime":1989.266,"body":"in the 1960s, back when the world was"},{"startTime":1989.266,"endTime":1990.666,"body":"young and we still thought there might be"},{"startTime":1990.666,"endTime":1991.833,"body":"little green people out there."},{"startTime":1992.233,"endTime":1993.233,"body":"Who wouldn't want to meet them?"},{"startTime":1993.799,"endTime":1995.5,"body":"Most serious opinion, however, has now"},{"startTime":1995.5,"endTime":1996.866,"body":"settled on the \"where is everybody\""},{"startTime":1996.866,"endTime":1998.366,"body":"paradox, first framed by the physicist"},{"startTime":1998.366,"endTime":1999.866,"body":"Enrico Fermi in 1950."},{"startTime":2000.599,"endTime":2002.066,"body":"If there is intelligent life anywhere,"},{"startTime":2002.066,"endTime":2003.5,"body":"why is it not sought to make contact?"},{"startTime":2003.9,"endTime":2005.033,"body":"It's because there isn't."},{"startTime":2005.033,"endTime":2006.366,"body":"There's nothing out there except planets"},{"startTime":2006.366,"endTime":2007.366,"body":"infinitely less beautiful"},{"startTime":2007.366,"endTime":2008.533,"body":"than this one we live on."},{"startTime":2008.766,"endTime":2011.033,"body":"That first paragraph is just so full of"},{"startTime":2011.033,"endTime":2012.433,"body":"wrongness and insanity."},{"startTime":2012.966,"endTime":2014.633,"body":"Maybe it's just worth stopping there."},{"startTime":2016.266,"endTime":2017.433,"body":"But then she begins the next one with,"},{"startTime":2017.433,"endTime":2019.366,"body":"\"All that seems pretty uncontroversial.\""},{"startTime":2020.933,"endTime":2022.466,"body":"I almost never mention it, except for"},{"startTime":2022.466,"endTime":2024.466,"body":"when astronauts yet again pointlessly go"},{"startTime":2024.466,"endTime":2025.366,"body":"into space, as with"},{"startTime":2025.366,"endTime":2026.366,"body":"the latest moon mission."},{"startTime":2026.866,"endTime":2027.599,"body":"Here's what I've noticed."},{"startTime":2027.933,"endTime":2028.966,"body":"People get really annoyed."},{"startTime":2029.433,"endTime":2031.5,"body":"Yep, that's me getting really annoyed."},{"startTime":2031.533,"endTime":2033.933,"body":"\"I have loads of opinions,\" she writes,"},{"startTime":2034.166,"endTime":2035.966,"body":"\"way more vexatious than that one, yet"},{"startTime":2035.966,"endTime":2037.366,"body":"none of them attract the same ire."},{"startTime":2037.866,"endTime":2038.433,"body":"Everyone's annoyed"},{"startTime":2038.433,"endTime":2039.233,"body":"for a different reason."},{"startTime":2039.766,"endTime":2041.766,"body":"Some of them think I'm deliberately"},{"startTime":2041.766,"endTime":2043.366,"body":"setting out to ruin a festivity.\""},{"startTime":2044.366,"endTime":2046.366,"body":"Festivity, chosen there to indicate that"},{"startTime":2046.366,"endTime":2047.166,"body":"this is just frivolous."},{"startTime":2048.533,"endTime":2050.233,"body":"\"Others act as though I'm opposing"},{"startTime":2050.233,"endTime":2051.366,"body":"innovation and modernity,"},{"startTime":2051.366,"endTime":2052.4,"body":"which I absolutely am not.\""},{"startTime":2052.666,"endTime":2053.366,"body":"Yes, you are."},{"startTime":2054.166,"endTime":2055.866,"body":"\"They point to all the discoveries that"},{"startTime":2055.866,"endTime":2056.933,"body":"wouldn't have been made without the"},{"startTime":2056.933,"endTime":2059.833,"body":"space-based wanderlust, most of which"},{"startTime":2059.833,"endTime":2060.766,"body":"seem to involve finding"},{"startTime":2060.766,"endTime":2062.099,"body":"better ways to kill each other."},{"startTime":2062.333,"endTime":2063.633,"body":"And then they mourn the kind of world I"},{"startTime":2063.633,"endTime":2065.033,"body":"want to live in, where nobody can see"},{"startTime":2065.033,"endTime":2066.066,"body":"beyond their own horizon.\""},{"startTime":2068.099,"endTime":2070.266,"body":"Some people think, so this is going to be"},{"startTime":2070.266,"endTime":2071.033,"body":"the end of it, yeah."},{"startTime":2072.033,"endTime":2073.266,"body":"Some people think I dislike the"},{"startTime":2073.266,"endTime":2074.366,"body":"astronauts themselves,"},{"startTime":2074.366,"endTime":2075.266,"body":"which couldn't be more wrong."},{"startTime":2075.266,"endTime":2075.933,"body":"Who thinks that?"},{"startTime":2076.633,"endTime":2078.233,"body":"Who has that thought?"},{"startTime":2078.233,"endTime":2079.766,"body":"When you start railing against the space"},{"startTime":2079.766,"endTime":2081.066,"body":"program, you don't like the individuals"},{"startTime":2081.066,"endTime":2081.866,"body":"who are going to space."},{"startTime":2082.566,"endTime":2082.766,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":2083.666,"endTime":2085.166,"body":"Some people think I dislike the"},{"startTime":2085.166,"endTime":2086.066,"body":"astronauts themselves,"},{"startTime":2086.066,"endTime":2087.4,"body":"which couldn't be more wrong."},{"startTime":2087.4,"endTime":2088.166,"body":"I'm sure they're great."},{"startTime":2088.433,"endTime":2089.633,"body":"They certainly seem wholesome."},{"startTime":2090.099,"endTime":2091.599,"body":"Some people think I'm being a Scrooge."},{"startTime":2091.866,"endTime":2092.266,"body":"You are."},{"startTime":2093.099,"endTime":2094.599,"body":"\"Resenting the financial outlay because"},{"startTime":2094.599,"endTime":2096.366,"body":"my soul has no poetry in it."},{"startTime":2096.366,"endTime":2098.099,"body":"It's a paradox and not a delicious one"},{"startTime":2098.099,"endTime":2099.566,"body":"that moaning about the waste of energy"},{"startTime":2099.566,"endTime":2101.0,"body":"that is space travel has turned into"},{"startTime":2101.0,"endTime":2101.566,"body":"quite a significant"},{"startTime":2101.566,"endTime":2102.666,"body":"waste of my own energy.\""},{"startTime":2103.433,"endTime":2105.033,"body":"Seriously, NASA, could"},{"startTime":2105.033,"endTime":2106.133,"body":"you not just knock it off?"},{"startTime":2106.466,"endTime":2108.333,"body":"Hasn't the US of all nations got bigger"},{"startTime":2108.333,"endTime":2109.4,"body":"things to worry about?"},{"startTime":2110.333,"endTime":2112.833,"body":"And worry again, festivities and worry."},{"startTime":2113.166,"endTime":2115.433,"body":"Isn't this just a frivolous"},{"startTime":2115.833,"endTime":2117.599,"body":"little, and she doesn't say it."},{"startTime":2117.599,"endTime":2119.233,"body":"She doesn't, at least she doesn't gender"},{"startTime":2119.233,"endTime":2121.0,"body":"this thing, but she does implicitly."},{"startTime":2121.566,"endTime":2124.266,"body":"This is like men doing their frivolous"},{"startTime":2124.266,"endTime":2127.0,"body":"manly things when they should be solving"},{"startTime":2127.0,"endTime":2128.166,"body":"the real problems here on"},{"startTime":2128.166,"endTime":2129.633,"body":"earth, which they too caused."},{"startTime":2130.933,"endTime":2131.633,"body":"Yes?"},{"startTime":2131.966,"endTime":2133.766,"body":"I have thousands to say."},{"startTime":2133.766,"endTime":2134.466,"body":"I just don't want to"},{"startTime":2134.466,"endTime":2135.733,"body":"interrupt the excellent riff."},{"startTime":2136.699,"endTime":2137.833,"body":"I will pick it up"},{"startTime":2137.833,"endTime":2139.266,"body":"after you say something."},{"startTime":2139.599,"endTime":2139.8,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2140.266,"endTime":2144.933,"body":"So first of all, I think we cannot bypass"},{"startTime":2144.933,"endTime":2147.433,"body":"the fact that the men folk are having a"},{"startTime":2147.433,"endTime":2149.8,"body":"very different conversation about this"},{"startTime":2149.8,"endTime":2153.0,"body":"mission, and it will cause"},{"startTime":2153.0,"endTime":2154.599,"body":"you to want to roll your eyes."},{"startTime":2155.433,"endTime":2157.166,"body":"But the men folk are having a discussion"},{"startTime":2157.166,"endTime":2158.599,"body":"about whether or not"},{"startTime":2158.599,"endTime":2159.699,"body":"the mission happened."},{"startTime":2159.966,"endTime":2161.833,"body":"So this is not the men folk."},{"startTime":2162.233,"endTime":2162.966,"body":"This is some"},{"startTime":2164.233,"endTime":2165.233,"body":"group of men folk."},{"startTime":2165.466,"endTime":2166.733,"body":"No, and this is not"},{"startTime":2166.733,"endTime":2168.366,"body":"as insane as it sounds."},{"startTime":2168.733,"endTime":2169.099,"body":"I did."},{"startTime":2169.099,"endTime":2169.666,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":2169.666,"endTime":2172.233,"body":"You are now combining two reactions."},{"startTime":2173.266,"endTime":2173.466,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2173.933,"endTime":2175.833,"body":"This is not, I mean, any more than that"},{"startTime":2175.833,"endTime":2177.633,"body":"is the women folk, but there is a"},{"startTime":2177.633,"endTime":2179.166,"body":"gendered thing here."},{"startTime":2179.466,"endTime":2180.099,"body":"That's the thing."},{"startTime":2180.533,"endTime":2183.866,"body":"The majority of men folk are not"},{"startTime":2183.866,"endTime":2185.5,"body":"questioning whether or not this happened."},{"startTime":2187.099,"endTime":2189.133,"body":"Probably if you were to survey people on"},{"startTime":2189.133,"endTime":2190.433,"body":"the street, that's true."},{"startTime":2190.933,"endTime":2194.233,"body":"But in terms of people who are processing"},{"startTime":2194.233,"endTime":2196.599,"body":"this as something, a large fraction of"},{"startTime":2196.599,"endTime":2198.133,"body":"the men folk are having a discussion."},{"startTime":2198.166,"endTime":2199.0,"body":"I'm not saying they're"},{"startTime":2199.0,"endTime":2200.166,"body":"all saying it didn't happen."},{"startTime":2200.166,"endTime":2201.633,"body":"That's not what I'm saying, but I am"},{"startTime":2201.633,"endTime":2203.333,"body":"saying there's a very active discussion"},{"startTime":2203.333,"endTime":2205.366,"body":"about what this actually was."},{"startTime":2206.0,"endTime":2207.533,"body":"And you know, it was a bunch of things,"},{"startTime":2207.533,"endTime":2208.5,"body":"including a religious"},{"startTime":2208.5,"endTime":2210.266,"body":"experience, weirdly enough."},{"startTime":2210.766,"endTime":2213.566,"body":"Now I'm not saying, I'm saying that what"},{"startTime":2213.566,"endTime":2216.166,"body":"was presented back to us here on earth"},{"startTime":2216.166,"endTime":2220.933,"body":"had a decidedly religious flavor."},{"startTime":2221.766,"endTime":2222.8,"body":"And you just repeat it"},{"startTime":2222.8,"endTime":2223.766,"body":"like, Oh, what, what are"},{"startTime":2223.766,"endTime":2225.933,"body":"you talking about actual illusions to a"},{"startTime":2225.933,"endTime":2227.666,"body":"particular version of the deity."},{"startTime":2227.966,"endTime":2230.166,"body":"There was prayer and all of this stuff."},{"startTime":2230.166,"endTime":2232.133,"body":"And I am not saying you don't get to take"},{"startTime":2232.133,"endTime":2233.966,"body":"that stuff with you to space, but I am"},{"startTime":2233.966,"endTime":2237.266,"body":"saying NASA is deciding what we down here"},{"startTime":2237.266,"endTime":2239.866,"body":"on earth get to enjoy about this."},{"startTime":2239.866,"endTime":2242.099,"body":"And there was a time back when the moon"},{"startTime":2242.099,"endTime":2243.633,"body":"mission, either data didn't happen."},{"startTime":2244.333,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"There was an illusion to this being an"},{"startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2249.666,"body":"accomplishment of humankind, right?"},{"startTime":2249.933,"endTime":2251.533,"body":"There was a universality to it."},{"startTime":2252.033,"endTime":2255.133,"body":"And this was different from that prayer."},{"startTime":2255.766,"endTime":2257.233,"body":"I guess I didn't run."},{"startTime":2257.233,"endTime":2257.933,"body":"I didn't, I don't know"},{"startTime":2257.933,"endTime":2258.633,"body":"what you're talking about."},{"startTime":2258.9,"endTime":2259.566,"body":"So it's hard for me to,"},{"startTime":2259.566,"endTime":2261.366,"body":"because I haven't seen any of this."},{"startTime":2261.366,"endTime":2263.766,"body":"There was a lot of illusions to a"},{"startTime":2263.766,"endTime":2267.4,"body":"particular Christian version of, and you"},{"startTime":2267.4,"endTime":2269.133,"body":"know, I ain't against it coming from the"},{"startTime":2269.133,"endTime":2270.666,"body":"astronauts or NASA coded."},{"startTime":2271.033,"endTime":2273.766,"body":"Well, you know, choice of who went choice"},{"startTime":2273.766,"endTime":2274.633,"body":"of what they were going to do."},{"startTime":2274.633,"endTime":2276.333,"body":"All of this stuff somehow happens."},{"startTime":2276.333,"endTime":2276.833,"body":"We don't know."},{"startTime":2277.866,"endTime":2279.3,"body":"So anyway, again,"},{"startTime":2280.633,"endTime":2282.266,"body":"take your beliefs to space with you."},{"startTime":2282.266,"endTime":2283.4,"body":"I don't think you shouldn't."},{"startTime":2283.4,"endTime":2284.9,"body":"I don't think we should be populating"},{"startTime":2284.9,"endTime":2285.866,"body":"space with atheists."},{"startTime":2286.099,"endTime":2287.966,"body":"I've said plenty of stuff about what are,"},{"startTime":2287.966,"endTime":2290.733,"body":"you know, as a de facto atheist."},{"startTime":2291.733,"endTime":2292.833,"body":"I've said lots of stuff about the"},{"startTime":2292.833,"endTime":2294.966,"body":"dangers, I think, that come along with"},{"startTime":2294.966,"endTime":2296.566,"body":"abandoning ancient"},{"startTime":2296.633,"endTime":2298.733,"body":"traditions in favor of nothing."},{"startTime":2299.733,"endTime":2301.033,"body":"But the point is we got"},{"startTime":2301.033,"endTime":2302.133,"body":"a particular thing back."},{"startTime":2302.866,"endTime":2304.333,"body":"I think there was a huge"},{"startTime":2304.333,"endTime":2306.033,"body":"opportunity missed here."},{"startTime":2306.966,"endTime":2310.166,"body":"Assuming the, the mission is what it"},{"startTime":2310.166,"endTime":2313.5,"body":"appeared to have been, then a lot of"},{"startTime":2313.5,"endTime":2315.633,"body":"effort should have been put into figuring"},{"startTime":2315.633,"endTime":2318.633,"body":"out how this could be used to"},{"startTime":2321.266,"endTime":2322.333,"body":"get us some sort of"},{"startTime":2322.333,"endTime":2325.4,"body":"resolution on what happened in 1969."},{"startTime":2326.3,"endTime":2328.933,"body":"Because the problem is that the"},{"startTime":2329.933,"endTime":2333.366,"body":"hypothesis that we did not go actually,"},{"startTime":2334.166,"endTime":2336.266,"body":"there's stuff in it"},{"startTime":2336.266,"endTime":2337.366,"body":"that you wouldn't expect."},{"startTime":2337.566,"endTime":2339.333,"body":"It's not flat earth, right?"},{"startTime":2339.766,"endTime":2340.233,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2340.233,"endTime":2341.766,"body":"But how would, how would this mission,"},{"startTime":2341.766,"endTime":2344.199,"body":"which did not land on the moon, and I"},{"startTime":2344.199,"endTime":2348.533,"body":"don't know enough about where the"},{"startTime":2348.533,"endTime":2352.433,"body":"landings in the 60s or the 70s were"},{"startTime":2352.433,"endTime":2356.033,"body":"versus what exactly was, was, or what,"},{"startTime":2356.266,"endTime":2357.733,"body":"where the orbit was this time."},{"startTime":2358.166,"endTime":2358.866,"body":"I don't even know if"},{"startTime":2358.866,"endTime":2360.166,"body":"they were, I have no idea."},{"startTime":2360.166,"endTime":2361.966,"body":"I haven't looked into it, presumably"},{"startTime":2361.966,"endTime":2363.933,"body":"knowable, but I, you're, you're asking"},{"startTime":2363.933,"endTime":2366.833,"body":"for, you're asking for this to have been"},{"startTime":2366.833,"endTime":2368.133,"body":"a different, well, a"},{"startTime":2368.133,"endTime":2368.933,"body":"different set of goals."},{"startTime":2369.233,"endTime":2369.733,"body":"And, you know, I think"},{"startTime":2369.733,"endTime":2371.133,"body":"the goals are a little bit,"},{"startTime":2372.233,"endTime":2373.3,"body":"you know, the goals are in part"},{"startTime":2373.3,"endTime":2374.233,"body":"geopolitical and"},{"startTime":2374.233,"endTime":2375.733,"body":"competitive and chest thumping."},{"startTime":2376.033,"endTime":2376.533,"body":"Like we're going to"},{"startTime":2376.533,"endTime":2377.366,"body":"get there before China."},{"startTime":2377.599,"endTime":2377.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2377.833,"endTime":2379.633,"body":"But the goals are also engineering."},{"startTime":2379.833,"endTime":2382.166,"body":"The goals are let's, let's test a bunch"},{"startTime":2382.166,"endTime":2384.966,"body":"of systems and see if man's space flight"},{"startTime":2384.966,"endTime":2387.199,"body":"and potentially, you know, living on the"},{"startTime":2387.199,"endTime":2388.433,"body":"surface of other"},{"startTime":2388.433,"endTime":2389.933,"body":"planets, satellites, et cetera."},{"startTime":2389.933,"endTime":2391.233,"body":"Like how, how close are we and what"},{"startTime":2391.233,"endTime":2392.0,"body":"systems work and what"},{"startTime":2392.0,"endTime":2393.133,"body":"systems need tweaking?"},{"startTime":2393.633,"endTime":2398.433,"body":"You know, was, was the stated goal."},{"startTime":2398.433,"endTime":2399.166,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2399.166,"endTime":2400.3,"body":"And look, first of all,"},{"startTime":2400.3,"endTime":2402.666,"body":"let's address this woman's absurd"},{"startTime":2403.766,"endTime":2406.599,"body":"criticisms here just once and for all."},{"startTime":2406.8,"endTime":2411.266,"body":"The value of going to the moon is, it's a"},{"startTime":2411.266,"endTime":2413.266,"body":"little bit like the value of going to"},{"startTime":2413.266,"endTime":2414.966,"body":"college back when that had a value."},{"startTime":2415.333,"endTime":2418.199,"body":"You are doing it for the"},{"startTime":2418.199,"endTime":2420.566,"body":"purpose of training yourself."},{"startTime":2421.233,"endTime":2422.766,"body":"And so the point is going to the moon,"},{"startTime":2423.066,"endTime":2424.566,"body":"especially landing on the moon and"},{"startTime":2424.566,"endTime":2428.5,"body":"returning is an extremely difficult task"},{"startTime":2428.5,"endTime":2431.733,"body":"and it succeeds or fails unambiguously."},{"startTime":2432.733,"endTime":2435.133,"body":"So the point is if we want to upgrade"},{"startTime":2435.133,"endTime":2438.233,"body":"ourselves, setting a very difficult task"},{"startTime":2438.233,"endTime":2440.4,"body":"like that, one from which you will, yes,"},{"startTime":2440.4,"endTime":2441.366,"body":"get some kind of information"},{"startTime":2441.366,"endTime":2442.566,"body":"that you didn't have before."},{"startTime":2442.9,"endTime":2444.666,"body":"But the purpose is not to figure out what"},{"startTime":2444.666,"endTime":2445.766,"body":"the moon is made of."},{"startTime":2446.066,"endTime":2446.333,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2446.333,"endTime":2447.733,"body":"We can take a pretty good guess at that"},{"startTime":2447.733,"endTime":2448.766,"body":"even before arriving."},{"startTime":2449.633,"endTime":2451.866,"body":"But so I think your framing is actually,"},{"startTime":2452.933,"endTime":2454.233,"body":"I think that's interesting because, you"},{"startTime":2454.233,"endTime":2458.533,"body":"know, put aside your claim that many men"},{"startTime":2458.533,"endTime":2459.966,"body":"question whether or not this happened."},{"startTime":2460.966,"endTime":2463.866,"body":"I think your framing of what the, what"},{"startTime":2463.866,"endTime":2466.266,"body":"the legitimate purpose of a moon mission"},{"startTime":2466.266,"endTime":2469.766,"body":"is, which is firmly within scientific"},{"startTime":2469.833,"endTime":2472.5,"body":"territory and my framing of what the"},{"startTime":2472.5,"endTime":2474.433,"body":"legitimate purpose of a moon mission is,"},{"startTime":2474.433,"endTime":2476.533,"body":"which is, I think, also firmly within"},{"startTime":2476.533,"endTime":2478.833,"body":"scientific territory are actually quite"},{"startTime":2478.833,"endTime":2480.4,"body":"different based on, as it"},{"startTime":2480.4,"endTime":2481.933,"body":"turns out, sex differences."},{"startTime":2482.866,"endTime":2485.133,"body":"That you just talked about a goal, a"},{"startTime":2485.133,"endTime":2487.366,"body":"mission, a, you know, having the idea in"},{"startTime":2487.366,"endTime":2488.266,"body":"advance and like coming"},{"startTime":2488.266,"endTime":2489.666,"body":"back with data, basically."},{"startTime":2490.166,"endTime":2491.633,"body":"And my, you know, the way that I framed"},{"startTime":2491.633,"endTime":2495.199,"body":"it and the way that I think about one of"},{"startTime":2495.199,"endTime":2499.599,"body":"the key purposes and of such missions,"},{"startTime":2499.599,"endTime":2502.099,"body":"but such really of a space program more"},{"startTime":2502.099,"endTime":2504.533,"body":"generally, of having a space program,"},{"startTime":2504.533,"endTime":2506.466,"body":"having grown up in the space age, right,"},{"startTime":2507.166,"endTime":2511.466,"body":"is to encourage wonder and awe and"},{"startTime":2511.466,"endTime":2513.533,"body":"openness and curiosity and exploration"},{"startTime":2513.533,"endTime":2516.633,"body":"and discovery, especially when we live on"},{"startTime":2516.633,"endTime":2519.866,"body":"a planet that is full of beauty and"},{"startTime":2519.866,"endTime":2521.8,"body":"unknown things, but other than the"},{"startTime":2521.8,"endTime":2523.266,"body":"oceanic depths, most of"},{"startTime":2523.266,"endTime":2525.466,"body":"the land has been seen."},{"startTime":2526.133,"endTime":2529.066,"body":"Like we've been there and there are so"},{"startTime":2529.066,"endTime":2530.633,"body":"many new things under the sun yet."},{"startTime":2531.233,"endTime":2534.066,"body":"And part of what is happening to us as a"},{"startTime":2534.066,"endTime":2536.5,"body":"species is we're just getting flat."},{"startTime":2536.966,"endTime":2539.533,"body":"We're just getting bored with what is"},{"startTime":2539.533,"endTime":2543.0,"body":"possible because anytime you think, oh,"},{"startTime":2543.166,"endTime":2545.133,"body":"oh, I just heard about a new place or a"},{"startTime":2545.133,"endTime":2547.566,"body":"new thing and you, and you Google it, you"},{"startTime":2547.566,"endTime":2548.933,"body":"AI it, you do whatever"},{"startTime":2548.933,"endTime":2550.166,"body":"it is to figure it out."},{"startTime":2550.166,"endTime":2552.366,"body":"And you realize that 18 million people"},{"startTime":2552.366,"endTime":2553.966,"body":"have already had thoughts about it or"},{"startTime":2553.966,"endTime":2555.3,"body":"heard about it and added"},{"startTime":2555.3,"endTime":2556.366,"body":"their own little thing."},{"startTime":2556.366,"endTime":2557.833,"body":"And you know, most of them are wrong, but"},{"startTime":2557.833,"endTime":2558.566,"body":"some of them aren't."},{"startTime":2558.566,"endTime":2559.4,"body":"And how do you figure it out?"},{"startTime":2559.4,"endTime":2559.966,"body":"And you're just done."},{"startTime":2559.966,"endTime":2560.733,"body":"Like, I don't know, I'll"},{"startTime":2560.733,"endTime":2561.633,"body":"just go back to TikTok."},{"startTime":2561.966,"endTime":2562.166,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2562.599,"endTime":2567.133,"body":"So I think for sure the, you know, stated"},{"startTime":2567.133,"endTime":2569.066,"body":"explicit on the cover of the brochure"},{"startTime":2569.066,"endTime":2570.666,"body":"purpose, and you know, in this case it"},{"startTime":2570.666,"endTime":2572.066,"body":"was engineering, not science, mostly,"},{"startTime":2572.333,"endTime":2574.433,"body":"were the purposes, but you know, the"},{"startTime":2574.433,"endTime":2577.433,"body":"scientific reasons are to have questions"},{"startTime":2577.433,"endTime":2579.099,"body":"in advance that you go with the"},{"startTime":2579.099,"endTime":2581.366,"body":"appropriate tools to run experiments or"},{"startTime":2581.366,"endTime":2582.733,"body":"do observations that can help"},{"startTime":2582.733,"endTime":2583.866,"body":"you resolve your hypotheses."},{"startTime":2584.5,"endTime":2589.533,"body":"But the, the more ethereal necessity for"},{"startTime":2589.533,"endTime":2593.0,"body":"science, for humans is to keep open our"},{"startTime":2593.0,"endTime":2595.333,"body":"sense of wonder and awe and curiosity and"},{"startTime":2595.333,"endTime":2598.0,"body":"openness and, and remember that"},{"startTime":2598.0,"endTime":2599.633,"body":"exploration and discovery are just"},{"startTime":2599.633,"endTime":2601.599,"body":"inherent to who we are."},{"startTime":2602.233,"endTime":2603.766,"body":"I disagree with none of that."},{"startTime":2604.4,"endTime":2606.533,"body":"And in fact, I thought that your initial"},{"startTime":2606.533,"endTime":2609.433,"body":"defense of it actually included mine."},{"startTime":2610.166,"endTime":2610.833,"body":"Different emphasis."},{"startTime":2610.833,"endTime":2611.8,"body":"I mean, I think it, I"},{"startTime":2611.8,"endTime":2614.366,"body":"found your emphasis fast."},{"startTime":2614.366,"endTime":2616.633,"body":"No, I wasn't defending the engineering."},{"startTime":2616.633,"endTime":2618.833,"body":"I was saying the stated goals appear to"},{"startTime":2618.833,"endTime":2619.766,"body":"have been mostly"},{"startTime":2619.766,"endTime":2621.133,"body":"engineering rather than scientific."},{"startTime":2621.133,"endTime":2621.5,"body":"There's like some"},{"startTime":2621.5,"endTime":2622.833,"body":"geopolitical stuff for sure."},{"startTime":2624.3,"endTime":2626.333,"body":"And there's, there's a lot of engineering"},{"startTime":2626.333,"endTime":2628.333,"body":"stuff and there's not, there's not really"},{"startTime":2628.333,"endTime":2630.366,"body":"that much over in the explicitly"},{"startTime":2630.366,"endTime":2632.466,"body":"scientific territory with regard to"},{"startTime":2632.466,"endTime":2633.366,"body":"justification side of"},{"startTime":2633.366,"endTime":2635.066,"body":"NASA for Artemis too."},{"startTime":2635.066,"endTime":2635.366,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2635.366,"endTime":2636.833,"body":"And I don't think, I don't think there"},{"startTime":2636.833,"endTime":2638.066,"body":"was, I don't think there was much to"},{"startTime":2638.066,"endTime":2638.866,"body":"learn for one thing"},{"startTime":2638.866,"endTime":2640.4,"body":"when it comes to the moon."},{"startTime":2640.4,"endTime":2641.666,"body":"We've been there, done that maybe."},{"startTime":2643.066,"endTime":2645.066,"body":"So no,"},{"startTime":2646.133,"endTime":2648.866,"body":"but a NASA tells us,"},{"startTime":2648.866,"endTime":2649.9,"body":"it's a big place, by the way,"},{"startTime":2650.233,"endTime":2652.066,"body":"NASA of space, the"},{"startTime":2652.066,"endTime":2656.666,"body":"moon, the places we haven't been"},{"startTime":2656.666,"endTime":2657.5,"body":"for sure."},{"startTime":2657.733,"endTime":2657.933,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2658.433,"endTime":2659.133,"body":"Oh, that's true."},{"startTime":2659.3,"endTime":2660.033,"body":"Oh, on the moon."},{"startTime":2660.033,"endTime":2660.166,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2660.166,"endTime":2662.199,"body":"But it's kind of a, you know, variations"},{"startTime":2662.199,"endTime":2663.833,"body":"on a theme, it being,"},{"startTime":2663.833,"endTime":2664.733,"body":"well, that's what we think"},{"startTime":2664.733,"endTime":2666.433,"body":"having not been many places."},{"startTime":2667.366,"endTime":2667.599,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2667.966,"endTime":2671.933,"body":"But nonetheless, the value of going to"},{"startTime":2671.933,"endTime":2673.433,"body":"the moon itself is"},{"startTime":2673.433,"endTime":2674.666,"body":"mostly an engineering thing."},{"startTime":2675.3,"endTime":2678.833,"body":"NASA tells us with a straight face that"},{"startTime":2678.833,"endTime":2680.366,"body":"they've lost the technology that got us"},{"startTime":2680.366,"endTime":2681.066,"body":"there the first time."},{"startTime":2681.5,"endTime":2683.466,"body":"One of the many things that don't quite"},{"startTime":2683.466,"endTime":2684.599,"body":"add up about the story."},{"startTime":2684.933,"endTime":2687.933,"body":"So the point is, okay, if this is true,"},{"startTime":2688.199,"endTime":2690.633,"body":"we need to bootstrap that capacity again,"},{"startTime":2690.633,"endTime":2691.533,"body":"would be good to have it."},{"startTime":2691.533,"endTime":2692.033,"body":"It was quite an"},{"startTime":2692.033,"endTime":2693.366,"body":"accomplishment if it was one."},{"startTime":2693.733,"endTime":2693.933,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2694.0,"endTime":2694.833,"body":"But what do you say?"},{"startTime":2694.833,"endTime":2694.933,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2694.933,"endTime":2696.033,"body":"Would be good to have it."},{"startTime":2696.033,"endTime":2697.333,"body":"What do you say to women like this"},{"startTime":2697.333,"endTime":2698.3,"body":"Guardian op-ed writer?"},{"startTime":2698.3,"endTime":2698.8,"body":"He's like, what do you"},{"startTime":2698.8,"endTime":2699.766,"body":"mean it'd be good to have it?"},{"startTime":2700.033,"endTime":2700.733,"body":"Don't we need to solve the"},{"startTime":2700.733,"endTime":2701.866,"body":"problems here on earth first?"},{"startTime":2701.866,"endTime":2703.833,"body":"I remember, I actually remember having"},{"startTime":2703.833,"endTime":2707.0,"body":"this argument in eighth grade with a"},{"startTime":2707.0,"endTime":2709.066,"body":"girl, I was going to say woman, but in"},{"startTime":2709.066,"endTime":2709.633,"body":"eighth grade, you're"},{"startTime":2709.633,"endTime":2710.466,"body":"not women, you're girls."},{"startTime":2711.099,"endTime":2713.033,"body":"A girl I was friends with and we were"},{"startTime":2713.033,"endTime":2714.966,"body":"doing some science project together and I"},{"startTime":2714.966,"endTime":2717.666,"body":"was finding her impossible to deal with"},{"startTime":2717.666,"endTime":2720.533,"body":"because at every turn she came up with,"},{"startTime":2720.533,"endTime":2721.4,"body":"you know, sort of the social"},{"startTime":2721.4,"endTime":2722.966,"body":"justification for why we needed to"},{"startTime":2722.966,"endTime":2723.733,"body":"definitely spend money"},{"startTime":2723.733,"endTime":2724.966,"body":"over there and not over here."},{"startTime":2725.333,"endTime":2726.533,"body":"Like, what are you talking about?"},{"startTime":2726.533,"endTime":2727.9,"body":"We're talking about science."},{"startTime":2727.9,"endTime":2729.166,"body":"We're talking about like keeping your"},{"startTime":2729.166,"endTime":2730.666,"body":"mind open and being expansive."},{"startTime":2731.233,"endTime":2732.166,"body":"And she specifically went"},{"startTime":2732.166,"endTime":2733.166,"body":"after the space program."},{"startTime":2733.166,"endTime":2733.366,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2733.666,"endTime":2735.033,"body":"And this would have been in, you know,"},{"startTime":2735.033,"endTime":2736.333,"body":"whatever the early eighties."},{"startTime":2736.333,"endTime":2736.533,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2736.666,"endTime":2738.533,"body":"But first of all, you and I have covered"},{"startTime":2738.533,"endTime":2739.599,"body":"this topic thoroughly"},{"startTime":2739.599,"endTime":2740.8,"body":"under a different banner."},{"startTime":2741.566,"endTime":2744.0,"body":"This is basic and it's not basic science,"},{"startTime":2744.099,"endTime":2745.133,"body":"it's basic engineering."},{"startTime":2745.566,"endTime":2746.599,"body":"But the point is it's"},{"startTime":2746.599,"endTime":2748.5,"body":"engineering without a specific purpose."},{"startTime":2749.199,"endTime":2752.0,"body":"But I would point out many of us have"},{"startTime":2752.0,"endTime":2754.233,"body":"traveled on an airplane and gone to see"},{"startTime":2754.233,"endTime":2756.533,"body":"important things or accomplished things"},{"startTime":2756.533,"endTime":2758.733,"body":"in remote locations by using one."},{"startTime":2758.733,"endTime":2760.233,"body":"When the airplane was invented, nobody"},{"startTime":2760.233,"endTime":2761.099,"body":"knew what it was for."},{"startTime":2761.099,"endTime":2763.033,"body":"And in fact, for many years after nobody"},{"startTime":2763.033,"endTime":2764.666,"body":"knew what it was for, the army couldn't"},{"startTime":2764.666,"endTime":2765.699,"body":"figure out what to do with it."},{"startTime":2765.699,"endTime":2766.833,"body":"I'm going to keep pushing back though."},{"startTime":2767.033,"endTime":2768.366,"body":"Like, yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":2769.199,"endTime":2771.633,"body":"The value of basic research is in part"},{"startTime":2771.633,"endTime":2773.666,"body":"that you have no idea what it's going to"},{"startTime":2773.666,"endTime":2776.5,"body":"open up with regard to actual things that"},{"startTime":2776.5,"endTime":2777.5,"body":"are useful to humans."},{"startTime":2778.166,"endTime":2781.466,"body":"But the actual value to humans is the"},{"startTime":2781.466,"endTime":2782.233,"body":"inquiry and the"},{"startTime":2782.233,"endTime":2783.866,"body":"openness and the exploration."},{"startTime":2785.333,"endTime":2786.933,"body":"So I'm just like, yes, that's true."},{"startTime":2787.366,"endTime":2790.5,"body":"But every time that gets trotted out,"},{"startTime":2790.5,"endTime":2791.966,"body":"that's the thing that gets remembered."},{"startTime":2791.966,"endTime":2793.366,"body":"And then people could start dismantling"},{"startTime":2793.366,"endTime":2795.333,"body":"that because it seems finite and you can"},{"startTime":2795.333,"endTime":2797.433,"body":"count it and be like, yes, but you know,"},{"startTime":2797.433,"endTime":2799.433,"body":"all of this research hasn't"},{"startTime":2799.433,"endTime":2800.966,"body":"resolved into anything useful."},{"startTime":2800.966,"endTime":2802.066,"body":"Therefore, let's cut that branch."},{"startTime":2802.566,"endTime":2806.3,"body":"Like, you know, that is creating an"},{"startTime":2806.3,"endTime":2807.433,"body":"opportunity to cut"},{"startTime":2807.433,"endTime":2810.066,"body":"opportunities for inquiry"},{"startTime":2811.433,"endTime":2813.333,"body":"on the basis that we"},{"startTime":2813.333,"endTime":2814.566,"body":"haven't yet seen utility."},{"startTime":2814.866,"endTime":2815.066,"body":"Look,"},{"startTime":2816.166,"endTime":2817.099,"body":"I couldn't possibly be"},{"startTime":2817.099,"endTime":2818.333,"body":"more on your same page."},{"startTime":2818.9,"endTime":2820.833,"body":"I would point out that I studied tent"},{"startTime":2820.833,"endTime":2823.833,"body":"making bats and that was either because I"},{"startTime":2823.833,"endTime":2827.0,"body":"misunderstood the potential opportunities"},{"startTime":2827.0,"endTime":2829.133,"body":"that would be opened by our understanding"},{"startTime":2829.133,"endTime":2831.133,"body":"why these bats make these structures and"},{"startTime":2831.133,"endTime":2833.333,"body":"in what way, or it was because I actually"},{"startTime":2833.333,"endTime":2834.766,"body":"believe that it's worth answering"},{"startTime":2834.866,"endTime":2835.933,"body":"difficult questions."},{"startTime":2836.833,"endTime":2838.9,"body":"So do you want to get into a fight as to"},{"startTime":2838.9,"endTime":2842.633,"body":"how unimportant with regard to human"},{"startTime":2842.633,"endTime":2845.033,"body":"success on the planet, each of our"},{"startTime":2845.033,"endTime":2847.366,"body":"dissertation, the field based disputes,"},{"startTime":2847.699,"endTime":2848.166,"body":"because some of your"},{"startTime":2848.166,"endTime":2850.3,"body":"your your theoretical work"},{"startTime":2850.3,"endTime":2851.633,"body":"turns out to have been I think the"},{"startTime":2851.633,"endTime":2853.366,"body":"theoretical work has lots of but"},{"startTime":2853.366,"endTime":2854.8,"body":"important practical implications."},{"startTime":2855.133,"endTime":2858.466,"body":"But with if we are competing to see whose"},{"startTime":2858.466,"endTime":2860.766,"body":"dissertation was more basic and had less"},{"startTime":2860.766,"endTime":2862.266,"body":"potential for human"},{"startTime":2862.266,"endTime":2863.933,"body":"utility, I'm going to win this."},{"startTime":2863.933,"endTime":2864.133,"body":"Really?"},{"startTime":2864.433,"endTime":2864.633,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2864.866,"endTime":2866.366,"body":"With regard to the field work only."},{"startTime":2866.366,"endTime":2866.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2866.566,"endTime":2866.766,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2867.433,"endTime":2868.766,"body":"Because your frogs"},{"startTime":2870.333,"endTime":2874.5,"body":"are the custodians of an extremely"},{"startTime":2874.5,"endTime":2877.533,"body":"powerful and still mysterious chemical"},{"startTime":2877.533,"endTime":2880.433,"body":"process that creates a compound that"},{"startTime":2880.433,"endTime":2882.566,"body":"interacts in a profound way with"},{"startTime":2882.566,"endTime":2883.466,"body":"mammalian physiology."},{"startTime":2883.833,"endTime":2886.833,"body":"Yes, but I wasn't studying the toxin."},{"startTime":2887.433,"endTime":2887.666,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":2887.966,"endTime":2890.833,"body":"The lipophilic alkaloids on the surface"},{"startTime":2890.833,"endTime":2892.766,"body":"of their skin that they create through"},{"startTime":2892.766,"endTime":2894.633,"body":"their diet of ants and mites."},{"startTime":2895.533,"endTime":2897.166,"body":"I can say those words, but that has"},{"startTime":2897.166,"endTime":2897.866,"body":"nothing to do with the"},{"startTime":2897.866,"endTime":2898.5,"body":"questions I was asking."},{"startTime":2898.866,"endTime":2899.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2899.3,"endTime":2901.3,"body":"Like, I do think that, you know, we can"},{"startTime":2901.3,"endTime":2903.066,"body":"both put together stories that I think"},{"startTime":2903.066,"endTime":2906.833,"body":"are actually valid about, you know,"},{"startTime":2906.833,"endTime":2909.066,"body":"coming to understand the nature in the"},{"startTime":2909.066,"endTime":2911.533,"body":"case of my research of sex and sexual"},{"startTime":2911.533,"endTime":2914.166,"body":"selection and territoriality and the"},{"startTime":2914.166,"endTime":2916.066,"body":"evolution of paternal care and the"},{"startTime":2916.066,"endTime":2918.733,"body":"conditions under which predation and"},{"startTime":2918.733,"endTime":2921.233,"body":"competition between within species end up"},{"startTime":2921.233,"endTime":2923.966,"body":"superseding one another and also in the"},{"startTime":2923.966,"endTime":2926.699,"body":"evolution of changes of habit like going"},{"startTime":2926.699,"endTime":2928.266,"body":"from nocturnal to diurnal."},{"startTime":2928.633,"endTime":2930.266,"body":"Like the all of these are actually"},{"startTime":2930.266,"endTime":2931.366,"body":"relevant to questions"},{"startTime":2931.366,"endTime":2932.766,"body":"of humanity as well."},{"startTime":2933.633,"endTime":2935.433,"body":"But oh, in frogs, therefore not relevant."},{"startTime":2935.699,"endTime":2937.266,"body":"Oh, do you think evolution didn't happen"},{"startTime":2937.266,"endTime":2938.733,"body":"in which one that humans are frogs?"},{"startTime":2939.533,"endTime":2940.966,"body":"And, you know, we could certainly make"},{"startTime":2940.966,"endTime":2942.866,"body":"arguments that, you know, the"},{"startTime":2942.866,"endTime":2945.833,"body":"modification of habitat to create to"},{"startTime":2945.833,"endTime":2952.466,"body":"create domicile is is I ran out."},{"startTime":2952.466,"endTime":2954.366,"body":"Yeah, you were more about my own work."},{"startTime":2954.766,"endTime":2954.966,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2956.133,"endTime":2958.466,"body":"You did admirably well."},{"startTime":2958.466,"endTime":2959.966,"body":"It just kind of petered off at the end."},{"startTime":2959.966,"endTime":2960.533,"body":"But OK."},{"startTime":2961.099,"endTime":2964.833,"body":"So the wonder part, super important."},{"startTime":2964.833,"endTime":2967.599,"body":"And as you know, I have argued that"},{"startTime":2967.599,"endTime":2970.266,"body":"actually our light pollution problem"},{"startTime":2970.266,"endTime":2973.666,"body":"accidentally is creating a profound"},{"startTime":2973.666,"endTime":2975.333,"body":"philosophical problem."},{"startTime":2975.633,"endTime":2975.833,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2975.833,"endTime":2976.699,"body":"We write this into the book"},{"startTime":2976.699,"endTime":2979.466,"body":"that the inability and it, you know, it's"},{"startTime":2979.466,"endTime":2981.333,"body":"ironic because when you look into the"},{"startTime":2981.333,"endTime":2982.966,"body":"night sky where it isn't light polluted,"},{"startTime":2982.966,"endTime":2983.666,"body":"most of what you're"},{"startTime":2983.666,"endTime":2984.666,"body":"seeing are near neighbors."},{"startTime":2985.066,"endTime":2987.4,"body":"But the grandeur of even just that set of"},{"startTime":2987.4,"endTime":2990.199,"body":"near neighbor stars is so great that it"},{"startTime":2990.199,"endTime":2992.666,"body":"does cause you probably to be less"},{"startTime":2992.666,"endTime":2995.966,"body":"solipsistic and, you know, obsessed with"},{"startTime":2995.966,"endTime":2997.666,"body":"your own local environment."},{"startTime":2997.666,"endTime":2998.366,"body":"By the way, there's a very"},{"startTime":2998.366,"endTime":3003.0,"body":"good song by Cage, the Elephant,"},{"startTime":3004.533,"endTime":3007.433,"body":"the premise of which is that he is, you"},{"startTime":3007.433,"endTime":3009.933,"body":"know, sort of puttering around his house"},{"startTime":3009.933,"endTime":3012.133,"body":"and then he looks up at the sky and he's"},{"startTime":3012.133,"endTime":3014.766,"body":"thinking about an alien on a different"},{"startTime":3014.766,"endTime":3016.199,"body":"planet puttering around his"},{"startTime":3016.199,"endTime":3017.433,"body":"house in an analogous way."},{"startTime":3017.766,"endTime":3019.133,"body":"Anyway, it's kind of the way you should"},{"startTime":3019.133,"endTime":3020.3,"body":"be thinking about this."},{"startTime":3021.266,"endTime":3025.333,"body":"But there does not need to"},{"startTime":3025.333,"endTime":3028.133,"body":"be a reason to go to the moon."},{"startTime":3028.533,"endTime":3030.4,"body":"The capability to go to the moon, the"},{"startTime":3030.4,"endTime":3031.733,"body":"fact that the capability to go to the"},{"startTime":3031.733,"endTime":3034.766,"body":"moon is just out of range or very out of"},{"startTime":3034.766,"endTime":3036.966,"body":"range is reason enough."},{"startTime":3036.966,"endTime":3037.733,"body":"And it's, you know, you"},{"startTime":3037.733,"endTime":3038.833,"body":"don't want to do arbitrary"},{"startTime":3038.833,"endTime":3041.066,"body":"at it, losing capacity for such things."},{"startTime":3041.066,"endTime":3041.4,"body":"It's crazy."},{"startTime":3041.633,"endTime":3041.966,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3041.966,"endTime":3043.533,"body":"And if we didn't do it the first time,"},{"startTime":3043.533,"endTime":3046.699,"body":"doing it for the first time is paramount."},{"startTime":3046.966,"endTime":3048.4,"body":"These things are really important."},{"startTime":3048.733,"endTime":3051.166,"body":"And it's a shame that this mission did"},{"startTime":3051.166,"endTime":3055.766,"body":"not focus on bringing us compelling"},{"startTime":3055.766,"endTime":3056.833,"body":"photographic evidence"},{"startTime":3056.833,"endTime":3058.133,"body":"of the landing sites."},{"startTime":3058.666,"endTime":3060.066,"body":"Well, again, I'm going to push back on"},{"startTime":3060.066,"endTime":3062.166,"body":"that because you presumably also don't"},{"startTime":3062.166,"endTime":3065.5,"body":"know if their orbit, which was, you know,"},{"startTime":3065.5,"endTime":3067.566,"body":"limited by the various astronomical"},{"startTime":3067.566,"endTime":3069.733,"body":"bodies, was anywhere close to where the"},{"startTime":3069.733,"endTime":3070.599,"body":"original landing sites were."},{"startTime":3070.599,"endTime":3070.933,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3070.933,"endTime":3071.166,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":3071.366,"endTime":3073.199,"body":"And I will say I believe the Chinese and"},{"startTime":3073.199,"endTime":3074.699,"body":"Russians have both given"},{"startTime":3074.699,"endTime":3075.833,"body":"us some of this evidence."},{"startTime":3078.3,"endTime":3084.366,"body":"But the unimpressive evidence that we"},{"startTime":3084.366,"endTime":3087.199,"body":"were given of this flight that appears,"},{"startTime":3087.199,"endTime":3090.0,"body":"you know, static photos where you could"},{"startTime":3090.0,"endTime":3091.766,"body":"have had video, where you could have had"},{"startTime":3091.766,"endTime":3093.566,"body":"persistent video that would have allowed"},{"startTime":3093.566,"endTime":3096.033,"body":"you to track this mission in a way that"},{"startTime":3096.033,"endTime":3098.233,"body":"would have, you know, assuming the"},{"startTime":3098.233,"endTime":3101.033,"body":"mission is real, which I do, the ability"},{"startTime":3101.033,"endTime":3105.166,"body":"to understand, you know, as the context"},{"startTime":3105.166,"endTime":3107.766,"body":"of the spaceship changes what that does"},{"startTime":3107.766,"endTime":3109.699,"body":"to the size of the Earth and watching the"},{"startTime":3109.699,"endTime":3114.233,"body":"Earth, you know, look, the initial space"},{"startTime":3114.233,"endTime":3116.466,"body":"program that we all grew up thinking was"},{"startTime":3116.466,"endTime":3119.066,"body":"the greatest achievement of humanity thus"},{"startTime":3119.066,"endTime":3120.466,"body":"far, or at least on a"},{"startTime":3120.466,"endTime":3121.966,"body":"small list of such things."},{"startTime":3122.633,"endTime":3124.233,"body":"One of the things that did come back from"},{"startTime":3124.233,"endTime":3126.866,"body":"it, which, you know, arguably is evidence"},{"startTime":3126.866,"endTime":3129.566,"body":"for its having happened, is the overview"},{"startTime":3129.566,"endTime":3130.933,"body":"effect, which these"},{"startTime":3130.933,"endTime":3132.433,"body":"astronauts kind of alluded to."},{"startTime":3132.766,"endTime":3134.8,"body":"But the overview effect was a"},{"startTime":3134.8,"endTime":3137.733,"body":"psychological transition in astronauts,"},{"startTime":3138.566,"endTime":3140.966,"body":"if not universal, near universal among"},{"startTime":3140.966,"endTime":3145.566,"body":"them, from the odd experience of looking"},{"startTime":3145.566,"endTime":3150.266,"body":"back at your home planet on which all of"},{"startTime":3150.266,"endTime":3152.166,"body":"history has happened and"},{"startTime":3152.166,"endTime":3154.866,"body":"understanding how tiny it is."},{"startTime":3154.866,"endTime":3157.733,"body":"So it's a version of Carl Sagan's Pale"},{"startTime":3157.733,"endTime":3159.033,"body":"Blue Dot, which is, you know,"},{"startTime":3160.199,"endTime":3162.533,"body":"not a great photograph based on the"},{"startTime":3162.533,"endTime":3165.533,"body":"actual content, but maybe one of the most"},{"startTime":3165.533,"endTime":3167.833,"body":"important photographs of all time based"},{"startTime":3167.833,"endTime":3170.633,"body":"on its implication and Carl Sagan's"},{"startTime":3170.633,"endTime":3171.5,"body":"narration of it, which"},{"startTime":3171.5,"endTime":3174.266,"body":"is gorgeous and timeless."},{"startTime":3175.133,"endTime":3180.5,"body":"But anyway, yes, you go because of the"},{"startTime":3180.5,"endTime":3183.333,"body":"upgrade in yourself for demonstrating the"},{"startTime":3183.333,"endTime":3185.066,"body":"capacity and understanding what it is"},{"startTime":3185.066,"endTime":3186.766,"body":"that you need to understand in order to"},{"startTime":3186.766,"endTime":3187.633,"body":"accomplish all of the"},{"startTime":3187.633,"endTime":3188.9,"body":"difficult things that are required."},{"startTime":3189.333,"endTime":3191.5,"body":"You go because it causes wonder in"},{"startTime":3191.5,"endTime":3194.933,"body":"children who then are tracked into some"},{"startTime":3194.933,"endTime":3196.466,"body":"kind of meaning because they know that"},{"startTime":3196.466,"endTime":3198.666,"body":"amazing things are possible."},{"startTime":3199.433,"endTime":3200.766,"body":"Possibly reawakens wonder in adults."},{"startTime":3201.099,"endTime":3201.566,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":3201.866,"endTime":3202.066,"body":"Lasted."},{"startTime":3202.566,"endTime":3204.733,"body":"Well, and we frankly had it poisoned."},{"startTime":3205.033,"endTime":3207.333,"body":"We've had so much stuff portrayed as"},{"startTime":3207.333,"endTime":3209.066,"body":"other than it was that it"},{"startTime":3209.066,"endTime":3209.966,"body":"has made people cynical."},{"startTime":3210.5,"endTime":3212.433,"body":"And the fact is, if this was just purely"},{"startTime":3212.433,"endTime":3215.3,"body":"the mission that it appeared to be, it's"},{"startTime":3215.3,"endTime":3218.599,"body":"a shame that you have a huge fraction of"},{"startTime":3218.599,"endTime":3221.766,"body":"the population looking at it for signs"},{"startTime":3221.766,"endTime":3224.766,"body":"that it was a fake and unfortunately not"},{"startTime":3224.766,"endTime":3225.833,"body":"finding overwhelming"},{"startTime":3225.833,"endTime":3227.033,"body":"evidence that it was true."},{"startTime":3228.433,"endTime":3230.633,"body":"So anyway, I think this is this is the"},{"startTime":3230.633,"endTime":3231.733,"body":"story of a human tragedy."},{"startTime":3231.966,"endTime":3237.233,"body":"You've got a mission mired in a"},{"startTime":3237.233,"endTime":3240.433,"body":"controversy about the most basic facts of"},{"startTime":3240.433,"endTime":3242.633,"body":"what's true of our technological history."},{"startTime":3243.199,"endTime":3245.666,"body":"And this mission does very little to"},{"startTime":3245.666,"endTime":3247.599,"body":"alter the status of that discussion."},{"startTime":3247.9,"endTime":3249.8,"body":"It basically plays to the New York Times"},{"startTime":3249.8,"endTime":3252.066,"body":"reading crowd, some of whom are having"},{"startTime":3252.066,"endTime":3255.233,"body":"absurd reactions like, why"},{"startTime":3255.233,"endTime":3256.366,"body":"are we wasting money on this?"},{"startTime":3256.366,"endTime":3258.166,"body":"Which is the guardian, but close enough."},{"startTime":3258.166,"endTime":3260.566,"body":"Well, you know, I think the thing is"},{"startTime":3260.566,"endTime":3263.833,"body":"you're peering into this is one of these"},{"startTime":3264.466,"endTime":3268.833,"body":"soliloquies that you can imagine exactly"},{"startTime":3268.833,"endTime":3270.566,"body":"the cocktail party at which"},{"startTime":3270.566,"endTime":3272.033,"body":"that sounds sophisticated."},{"startTime":3272.466,"endTime":3272.9,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3272.9,"endTime":3273.9,"body":"The place that you can"},{"startTime":3273.9,"endTime":3275.133,"body":"go that you can say that."},{"startTime":3275.133,"endTime":3276.966,"body":"And the response is, I know."},{"startTime":3277.733,"endTime":3277.933,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":3278.4,"endTime":3279.333,"body":"Why do they do this?"},{"startTime":3279.333,"endTime":3279.866,"body":"Have you seen what's"},{"startTime":3279.866,"endTime":3280.666,"body":"happening on our streets?"},{"startTime":3281.0,"endTime":3281.199,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3281.199,"endTime":3281.8,"body":"Don't we have better"},{"startTime":3281.8,"endTime":3282.766,"body":"ways to spend our money?"},{"startTime":3283.566,"endTime":3283.766,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3284.033,"endTime":3285.133,"body":"And you guys aren't doing"},{"startTime":3285.133,"endTime":3286.166,"body":"a good job of it at all."},{"startTime":3286.433,"endTime":3286.633,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3286.933,"endTime":3289.199,"body":"And you guys are also not paying"},{"startTime":3289.199,"endTime":3291.199,"body":"attention to the fact that, you know, we"},{"startTime":3291.199,"endTime":3295.099,"body":"have these gigantic leaks of our tax"},{"startTime":3295.099,"endTime":3297.766,"body":"dollars into frauds in"},{"startTime":3297.766,"endTime":3298.966,"body":"various parts of the country."},{"startTime":3299.233,"endTime":3301.4,"body":"You know, I was referring to the both the"},{"startTime":3301.4,"endTime":3302.566,"body":"frauds and the explicit"},{"startTime":3302.566,"endTime":3304.433,"body":"programs that are batshit crazy."},{"startTime":3304.633,"endTime":3305.266,"body":"You got explicit"},{"startTime":3305.266,"endTime":3306.633,"body":"programs that are batshit crazy."},{"startTime":3307.066,"endTime":3310.033,"body":"You've got frauds that are crazy."},{"startTime":3310.366,"endTime":3311.566,"body":"You've got, you know,"},{"startTime":3312.233,"endTime":3314.166,"body":"wars that, you know,"},{"startTime":3315.266,"endTime":3317.0,"body":"destroy a huge amount of"},{"startTime":3317.0,"endTime":3319.466,"body":"treasure and cost lives."},{"startTime":3319.8,"endTime":3322.099,"body":"The number of places at which society is"},{"startTime":3322.099,"endTime":3324.833,"body":"misinvesting is spectacular."},{"startTime":3325.766,"endTime":3327.533,"body":"And, you know, the idea that you're going"},{"startTime":3327.533,"endTime":3329.8,"body":"to take something that's meaningful to"},{"startTime":3329.8,"endTime":3332.933,"body":"many of us and challenge it because you"},{"startTime":3332.933,"endTime":3335.566,"body":"can't find out how, you know, it has a"},{"startTime":3335.566,"endTime":3338.266,"body":"practical benefit to the particular"},{"startTime":3338.266,"endTime":3339.833,"body":"things that you're caring about."},{"startTime":3339.833,"endTime":3341.866,"body":"It's just it's a total failure of"},{"startTime":3341.866,"endTime":3343.566,"body":"imagination, which might be one of the"},{"startTime":3343.566,"endTime":3345.566,"body":"many symptoms of the"},{"startTime":3345.566,"endTime":3348.199,"body":"Cartesian crisis and the era of fraud."},{"startTime":3348.699,"endTime":3348.966,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3348.966,"endTime":3350.733,"body":"A total failure of imagination is right."},{"startTime":3351.066,"endTime":3353.033,"body":"And again, the headline of that of that"},{"startTime":3353.033,"endTime":3357.233,"body":"crazy op-ed piece in The Guardian is no,"},{"startTime":3357.233,"endTime":3358.8,"body":"that's not The Guardian at all."},{"startTime":3359.5,"endTime":3360.866,"body":"Let's stop going into space."},{"startTime":3360.866,"endTime":3361.933,"body":"There's nothing to see"},{"startTime":3361.933,"endTime":3363.433,"body":"and no one to talk to."},{"startTime":3364.866,"endTime":3366.633,"body":"And, you know, I think maybe hopefully"},{"startTime":3366.633,"endTime":3368.066,"body":"she did write that headline because that"},{"startTime":3368.066,"endTime":3369.033,"body":"line doesn't actually"},{"startTime":3369.033,"endTime":3369.833,"body":"show up in the piece."},{"startTime":3369.833,"endTime":3371.066,"body":"So that's quite it's quite an"},{"startTime":3371.066,"endTime":3373.166,"body":"extrapolation by the editors if that's"},{"startTime":3373.166,"endTime":3374.033,"body":"not from this author."},{"startTime":3374.033,"endTime":3375.266,"body":"But there's nothing to see."},{"startTime":3375.266,"endTime":3375.966,"body":"There's nothing to see."},{"startTime":3376.566,"endTime":3377.099,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"startTime":3377.433,"endTime":3379.8,"body":"There's everything to see, including, as"},{"startTime":3379.8,"endTime":3381.133,"body":"you point out, you know, the greatest"},{"startTime":3381.133,"endTime":3384.3,"body":"existential experience possible for"},{"startTime":3384.3,"endTime":3386.566,"body":"humanity to see all of humanity all at"},{"startTime":3386.566,"endTime":3388.533,"body":"once, at least those who are living now,"},{"startTime":3388.533,"endTime":3390.266,"body":"and no one to talk to."},{"startTime":3390.766,"endTime":3396.033,"body":"So that's you, the author, betraying what"},{"startTime":3396.033,"endTime":3397.199,"body":"you think has value."},{"startTime":3397.666,"endTime":3399.166,"body":"It's just about chit chat."},{"startTime":3399.766,"endTime":3401.433,"body":"And, you know, that's a denigration that"},{"startTime":3401.433,"endTime":3403.366,"body":"maybe wasn't kind, but, you know, there's"},{"startTime":3403.366,"endTime":3404.8,"body":"all sorts of high level talk."},{"startTime":3404.8,"endTime":3406.766,"body":"But talking to people is"},{"startTime":3406.766,"endTime":3408.466,"body":"the only reason to do things."},{"startTime":3408.466,"endTime":3409.9,"body":"It's the only reason to go places."},{"startTime":3411.133,"endTime":3416.033,"body":"It makes me wonder why you would ever"},{"startTime":3416.033,"endTime":3418.233,"body":"encourage anyone to go anywhere ever."},{"startTime":3419.066,"endTime":3421.933,"body":"You know, not just to say Vietnam to"},{"startTime":3421.933,"endTime":3424.266,"body":"explore, but how about your local park?"},{"startTime":3424.8,"endTime":3426.266,"body":"Like why go anywhere ever?"},{"startTime":3426.733,"endTime":3428.766,"body":"If your position is if there's nothing to"},{"startTime":3428.766,"endTime":3430.933,"body":"see, what is there to see?"},{"startTime":3430.933,"endTime":3431.433,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":3431.666,"endTime":3432.866,"body":"If you don't think there's anything to"},{"startTime":3432.866,"endTime":3435.666,"body":"see in space by looking back at the"},{"startTime":3435.666,"endTime":3436.433,"body":"earth, I have no idea"},{"startTime":3436.433,"endTime":3437.133,"body":"what you're talking about."},{"startTime":3437.4,"endTime":3438.433,"body":"There's no one to talk to."},{"startTime":3439.266,"endTime":3440.5,"body":"So what?"},{"startTime":3441.166,"endTime":3443.133,"body":"Like, A, there were people to talk to,"},{"startTime":3443.133,"endTime":3445.866,"body":"but B, there's a lot of things to be done"},{"startTime":3445.866,"endTime":3447.033,"body":"in the world that don't involve"},{"startTime":3447.033,"endTime":3448.833,"body":"conversation and don't involve explicit"},{"startTime":3448.833,"endTime":3450.433,"body":"words and don't involve language."},{"startTime":3450.766,"endTime":3453.666,"body":"That is surely a human"},{"startTime":3453.666,"endTime":3456.4,"body":"value, but it's not the only one."},{"startTime":3456.4,"endTime":3457.966,"body":"And for many of us, it's not the top one."},{"startTime":3458.233,"endTime":3461.466,"body":"There's also a profound misunderstanding"},{"startTime":3461.466,"endTime":3463.4,"body":"of what up there means."},{"startTime":3464.033,"endTime":3465.099,"body":"I mean, what's up there?"},{"startTime":3465.466,"endTime":3465.666,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3466.266,"endTime":3468.699,"body":"A hundred percent of everything to a"},{"startTime":3468.699,"endTime":3470.233,"body":"thousand decimal places is"},{"startTime":3470.233,"endTime":3471.466,"body":"up there and not down here."},{"startTime":3471.733,"endTime":3472.066,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3472.066,"endTime":3474.166,"body":"The fraction of what there is that is"},{"startTime":3474.166,"endTime":3476.166,"body":"down here is so close."},{"startTime":3476.166,"endTime":3477.4,"body":"But I mean, you're now"},{"startTime":3477.4,"endTime":3478.833,"body":"responding to a fiction."},{"startTime":3479.033,"endTime":3480.4,"body":"She didn't say there's nothing up there."},{"startTime":3480.4,"endTime":3481.633,"body":"She said, there's nothing to see."},{"startTime":3482.066,"endTime":3484.566,"body":"Well, but I think it's the same thing."},{"startTime":3484.566,"endTime":3485.733,"body":"The point is, it's not."},{"startTime":3485.766,"endTime":3488.0,"body":"The idea is what can you sense?"},{"startTime":3488.933,"endTime":3490.966,"body":"This is a very limited, like I'm a human"},{"startTime":3490.966,"endTime":3493.166,"body":"being trying to experience things."},{"startTime":3493.866,"endTime":3497.466,"body":"And I think it misunderstands the fact is"},{"startTime":3497.466,"endTime":3499.933,"body":"that they were mostly testing engineering"},{"startTime":3499.933,"endTime":3501.199,"body":"systems rather than"},{"startTime":3501.199,"endTime":3502.466,"body":"asking scientific questions."},{"startTime":3502.666,"endTime":3504.566,"body":"And the scientific questions would be"},{"startTime":3504.566,"endTime":3506.533,"body":"more about like, what can humans perceive"},{"startTime":3506.533,"endTime":3508.066,"body":"versus what can our instruments perceive?"},{"startTime":3508.5,"endTime":3511.666,"body":"And what use can we put our instruments"},{"startTime":3511.666,"endTime":3513.966,"body":"to to answer scientific questions?"},{"startTime":3515.133,"endTime":3516.599,"body":"But that's, that's not"},{"startTime":3516.599,"endTime":3517.8,"body":"like I don't think what she's"},{"startTime":3517.8,"endTime":3522.033,"body":"well, but even so, I mean, the reason to"},{"startTime":3522.033,"endTime":3523.599,"body":"do this mission was not"},{"startTime":3523.599,"endTime":3524.733,"body":"because of this mission."},{"startTime":3525.266,"endTime":3528.766,"body":"This is a step towards gaining capacity"},{"startTime":3528.766,"endTime":3531.066,"body":"towards what towards seeing things that"},{"startTime":3531.066,"endTime":3533.733,"body":"haven't been seen towards potential"},{"startTime":3533.733,"endTime":3535.766,"body":"travel to places we haven't gone."},{"startTime":3536.466,"endTime":3539.333,"body":"So, you know, it's a non-argument."},{"startTime":3539.766,"endTime":3540.066,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3540.066,"endTime":3542.433,"body":"It's like this, this was a prototype."},{"startTime":3542.666,"endTime":3543.866,"body":"It's a prototype mission."},{"startTime":3544.566,"endTime":3545.099,"body":"What's the purpose of"},{"startTime":3545.099,"endTime":3545.866,"body":"this prototype mission?"},{"startTime":3546.5,"endTime":3549.066,"body":"Well, it may have had purposes, but the"},{"startTime":3549.066,"endTime":3550.566,"body":"purpose of the prototype is so that you"},{"startTime":3550.566,"endTime":3552.033,"body":"can get good enough that you can do the"},{"startTime":3552.033,"endTime":3553.166,"body":"thing that you haven't done yet."},{"startTime":3553.833,"endTime":3554.933,"body":"And so that I mean, that"},{"startTime":3554.933,"endTime":3557.099,"body":"is sort of come full circle."},{"startTime":3557.099,"endTime":3558.766,"body":"That is, you know, over in the sort of"},{"startTime":3558.766,"endTime":3561.566,"body":"more masculine coded part of the"},{"startTime":3561.566,"endTime":3562.733,"body":"legitimate scientific"},{"startTime":3562.733,"endTime":3564.266,"body":"justifications for such a mission."},{"startTime":3564.666,"endTime":3568.366,"body":"That is exactly the error of imagine the"},{"startTime":3568.366,"endTime":3570.133,"body":"basic science that you can't already in"},{"startTime":3570.133,"endTime":3571.133,"body":"advance of doing it."},{"startTime":3571.533,"endTime":3573.433,"body":"Imagine what the human applicability will"},{"startTime":3573.433,"endTime":3575.666,"body":"be dismissing it and only going for"},{"startTime":3575.666,"endTime":3576.699,"body":"applied science, which is"},{"startTime":3576.699,"endTime":3579.033,"body":"to say, usually engineering."},{"startTime":3579.733,"endTime":3581.266,"body":"Well, I don't think so."},{"startTime":3581.533,"endTime":3583.233,"body":"I mean, I think as much as you"},{"startTime":3583.233,"endTime":3584.666,"body":"think I was trying to, I was trying to"},{"startTime":3584.666,"endTime":3586.3,"body":"sum up what we had both been saying."},{"startTime":3587.633,"endTime":3591.366,"body":"It seems to me that even if the purpose"},{"startTime":3591.966,"endTime":3594.866,"body":"is to bootstrap the capacity for somebody"},{"startTime":3594.866,"endTime":3597.366,"body":"to walk on Mars, I mean, I've given the"},{"startTime":3597.366,"endTime":3600.066,"body":"idea of a colony on Mars a hard time"},{"startTime":3600.066,"endTime":3602.8,"body":"because I've specifically ironically"},{"startTime":3602.8,"endTime":3604.233,"body":"leveled the accusation that there's"},{"startTime":3604.233,"endTime":3606.033,"body":"nothing to see up there because it's all"},{"startTime":3606.033,"endTime":3607.833,"body":"rocks of the same kind."},{"startTime":3607.833,"endTime":3608.566,"body":"And my point is I don't"},{"startTime":3608.566,"endTime":3609.566,"body":"want to go on that mission."},{"startTime":3609.566,"endTime":3611.066,"body":"I don't think most people would because,"},{"startTime":3611.066,"endTime":3613.633,"body":"you know, you'd have to have a particular"},{"startTime":3613.666,"endTime":3615.5,"body":"bent for that to be an upgrade."},{"startTime":3616.8,"endTime":3618.866,"body":"But it doesn't mean that getting human"},{"startTime":3618.866,"endTime":3620.966,"body":"beings to Mars wouldn't have tremendous"},{"startTime":3620.966,"endTime":3625.4,"body":"benefit, both in terms of what could"},{"startTime":3625.4,"endTime":3627.966,"body":"scientifically be done, which can, you"},{"startTime":3627.966,"endTime":3629.533,"body":"know, be done by robots and things."},{"startTime":3629.533,"endTime":3630.266,"body":"And we've done a lot of"},{"startTime":3630.266,"endTime":3632.733,"body":"that, but also, you know,"},{"startTime":3633.766,"endTime":3634.366,"body":"human beings never"},{"startTime":3634.366,"endTime":3635.266,"body":"walked on another planet."},{"startTime":3636.266,"endTime":3637.766,"body":"That's an accomplishment to do it."},{"startTime":3638.066,"endTime":3639.166,"body":"What happens when you've"},{"startTime":3639.166,"endTime":3640.099,"body":"walked on another planet?"},{"startTime":3640.366,"endTime":3642.466,"body":"Do you come back and say something that"},{"startTime":3642.466,"endTime":3643.733,"body":"actually causes us to"},{"startTime":3643.733,"endTime":3645.433,"body":"reconceptualize the Earth yet again?"},{"startTime":3646.033,"endTime":3648.733,"body":"Or, you know, our own systems."},{"startTime":3648.733,"endTime":3650.866,"body":"I mean, even just even just at the level"},{"startTime":3650.866,"endTime":3654.9,"body":"of how does how are all of the ways that"},{"startTime":3654.9,"endTime":3656.733,"body":"our physiology, that our anatomy, yes,"},{"startTime":3656.733,"endTime":3658.699,"body":"but especially our physiology, are taking"},{"startTime":3658.699,"endTime":3661.033,"body":"in the cues from our earthly environment"},{"startTime":3661.033,"endTime":3666.366,"body":"and enacting clocks at the"},{"startTime":3667.533,"endTime":3669.3,"body":"seasonal and the circadian level."},{"startTime":3669.533,"endTime":3671.133,"body":"We have tidal effects."},{"startTime":3671.699,"endTime":3674.466,"body":"We have electromagnetic effects."},{"startTime":3674.933,"endTime":3677.099,"body":"We have, you know, there's evidence of"},{"startTime":3677.099,"endTime":3681.599,"body":"some, I think it was plants being able to"},{"startTime":3681.599,"endTime":3683.266,"body":"maintain some of its"},{"startTime":3683.266,"endTime":3685.3,"body":"circadian effects deep underground."},{"startTime":3685.533,"endTime":3687.933,"body":"It turns out to have been due to some,"},{"startTime":3688.133,"endTime":3689.8,"body":"gosh, I think it was like radioactive"},{"startTime":3689.8,"endTime":3692.266,"body":"decay of particles"},{"startTime":3692.266,"endTime":3693.733,"body":"that it was picking up on."},{"startTime":3693.733,"endTime":3695.8,"body":"I'm confusing as I was reading a lot"},{"startTime":3695.8,"endTime":3698.966,"body":"about various ways that we keep track of"},{"startTime":3698.966,"endTime":3701.666,"body":"time in ways that we have no idea of"},{"startTime":3702.633,"endTime":3704.166,"body":"consciously, most of us."},{"startTime":3704.166,"endTime":3704.966,"body":"And of course, our"},{"startTime":3704.966,"endTime":3706.833,"body":"scientists don't know most of it yet."},{"startTime":3707.166,"endTime":3709.633,"body":"So, move us off of this planet in which"},{"startTime":3709.633,"endTime":3711.433,"body":"we have only and entirely evolved."},{"startTime":3712.033,"endTime":3713.733,"body":"For some amount of time, we know that"},{"startTime":3713.733,"endTime":3715.666,"body":"being in space messes with you, right?"},{"startTime":3716.166,"endTime":3718.233,"body":"What would actually the effect of being"},{"startTime":3718.233,"endTime":3719.9,"body":"on a different planet with a different"},{"startTime":3719.9,"endTime":3721.466,"body":"mass, a different distance from the sun,"},{"startTime":3721.466,"endTime":3722.933,"body":"a different day length, a different year"},{"startTime":3722.933,"endTime":3724.966,"body":"length, you know, presumably like you're"},{"startTime":3724.966,"endTime":3726.733,"body":"going to be living in a space with an"},{"startTime":3726.733,"endTime":3728.466,"body":"atmosphere like earth, but all of the"},{"startTime":3728.466,"endTime":3729.866,"body":"other effects, you know, a different"},{"startTime":3729.866,"endTime":3732.099,"body":"core, different, like all these different"},{"startTime":3732.099,"endTime":3733.466,"body":"things, what will we"},{"startTime":3733.466,"endTime":3734.566,"body":"start to see that will change?"},{"startTime":3735.266,"endTime":3736.699,"body":"I'm fascinated."},{"startTime":3736.966,"endTime":3738.466,"body":"I'm so curious to know what the answers"},{"startTime":3738.466,"endTime":3739.666,"body":"to those questions will be."},{"startTime":3739.666,"endTime":3740.366,"body":"Yeah, I think those"},{"startTime":3740.366,"endTime":3742.033,"body":"are all good questions."},{"startTime":3742.466,"endTime":3745.666,"body":"I also think there's something here we're"},{"startTime":3745.699,"endTime":3748.766,"body":"wrestling to phrase that there's"},{"startTime":3748.766,"endTime":3752.933,"body":"something about humans that figures out"},{"startTime":3752.933,"endTime":3755.066,"body":"what can't be done and then tries to"},{"startTime":3755.066,"endTime":3756.033,"body":"figure out how to do it."},{"startTime":3756.3,"endTime":3758.733,"body":"And that that is so fundamental to who we"},{"startTime":3758.733,"endTime":3759.833,"body":"are and what we are."},{"startTime":3760.166,"endTime":3763.199,"body":"And I saw a video the other day, of"},{"startTime":3763.199,"endTime":3765.266,"body":"course, had the same reaction."},{"startTime":3765.266,"endTime":3765.766,"body":"Is it real?"},{"startTime":3766.4,"endTime":3768.533,"body":"You know, somebody built a little car"},{"startTime":3768.533,"endTime":3771.566,"body":"that can drive up a wall,"},{"startTime":3772.699,"endTime":3773.633,"body":"drive around on the wall."},{"startTime":3773.933,"endTime":3775.333,"body":"A car with a person in it?"},{"startTime":3775.333,"endTime":3775.533,"body":"No."},{"startTime":3775.733,"endTime":3776.066,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3776.066,"endTime":3776.933,"body":"Just a little vehicle."},{"startTime":3778.133,"endTime":3779.133,"body":"And it works with fans."},{"startTime":3779.766,"endTime":3781.466,"body":"The fans basically create a force that"},{"startTime":3781.466,"endTime":3783.233,"body":"pushes the car onto the wall, allowing"},{"startTime":3783.233,"endTime":3784.533,"body":"all the regular car stuff to"},{"startTime":3784.533,"endTime":3785.866,"body":"fans that are pushing"},{"startTime":3785.866,"endTime":3786.966,"body":"it down onto its surface."},{"startTime":3787.4,"endTime":3789.333,"body":"I think the fans are pushing out."},{"startTime":3789.9,"endTime":3791.8,"body":"So it pushes the car down, but it's"},{"startTime":3791.8,"endTime":3792.599,"body":"possible that they're"},{"startTime":3792.599,"endTime":3793.766,"body":"sucking towards the wall."},{"startTime":3793.766,"endTime":3794.5,"body":"It wasn't clear from"},{"startTime":3794.5,"endTime":3795.533,"body":"the video, which it was."},{"startTime":3795.533,"endTime":3797.633,"body":"But, you know, by adjusting the fans, I"},{"startTime":3797.633,"endTime":3800.066,"body":"think can actually drive and then go up"},{"startTime":3800.066,"endTime":3801.633,"body":"the wall and drive around."},{"startTime":3801.633,"endTime":3803.066,"body":"And the point is, oh, why do that?"},{"startTime":3803.9,"endTime":3807.466,"body":"Well, I can come up with use cases, but"},{"startTime":3807.466,"endTime":3812.033,"body":"the reason to do it is because that's so"},{"startTime":3812.033,"endTime":3815.833,"body":"cool to be able to overcome that thing"},{"startTime":3815.833,"endTime":3818.833,"body":"through logic, your way through it,"},{"startTime":3819.266,"endTime":3821.166,"body":"prototyping your way to being able to"},{"startTime":3821.166,"endTime":3824.133,"body":"even start and then improving the thing."},{"startTime":3824.533,"endTime":3826.533,"body":"You know, some of the benefit was it was"},{"startTime":3826.533,"endTime":3828.866,"body":"that those of us who hadn't had the"},{"startTime":3828.866,"endTime":3831.033,"body":"thought saw this thing, that that's"},{"startTime":3831.033,"endTime":3832.8,"body":"productive of who we are."},{"startTime":3832.8,"endTime":3835.3,"body":"The technological problems that you will"},{"startTime":3835.3,"endTime":3838.066,"body":"have solved to do it, that creates a"},{"startTime":3838.066,"endTime":3840.266,"body":"knowledge base in the people who did it."},{"startTime":3840.266,"endTime":3842.433,"body":"Those people are hyper competent people."},{"startTime":3842.433,"endTime":3843.933,"body":"They're exactly who you want."},{"startTime":3844.466,"endTime":3846.0,"body":"And, you know, so anyway,"},{"startTime":3846.0,"endTime":3847.433,"body":"well, this exists"},{"startTime":3847.433,"endTime":3849.033,"body":"across all domains, too."},{"startTime":3849.566,"endTime":3849.766,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3850.533,"endTime":3854.433,"body":"The theme music for DarkHorse is the"},{"startTime":3854.433,"endTime":3858.933,"body":"creation of a man who made is making"},{"startTime":3858.933,"endTime":3862.633,"body":"music with wooden marbles, elaborate"},{"startTime":3862.633,"endTime":3864.866,"body":"design of wood and marbles."},{"startTime":3864.866,"endTime":3865.9,"body":"Winter Catan, is that?"},{"startTime":3866.233,"endTime":3866.666,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3866.933,"endTime":3867.033,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3867.133,"endTime":3867.833,"body":"Martin Mullen."},{"startTime":3868.166,"endTime":3868.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3869.699,"endTime":3872.733,"body":"And, you know, improv and innovation are"},{"startTime":3872.733,"endTime":3876.033,"body":"probably accepted or embraced by such,"},{"startTime":3876.033,"endTime":3879.466,"body":"you know, space exploration naysayers if"},{"startTime":3879.466,"endTime":3881.8,"body":"it happens in the place of music, if it"},{"startTime":3881.8,"endTime":3883.833,"body":"happens over in comedy space, maybe."},{"startTime":3885.099,"endTime":3886.066,"body":"But, you know, if it's entirely"},{"startTime":3886.066,"endTime":3888.166,"body":"linguistic, then everyone's into it."},{"startTime":3888.166,"endTime":3889.666,"body":"Oh, of course, we innovate all the time."},{"startTime":3889.666,"endTime":3890.233,"body":"We're creative."},{"startTime":3890.233,"endTime":3891.0,"body":"That's who we are."},{"startTime":3891.666,"endTime":3894.766,"body":"But the idea that over in actual"},{"startTime":3894.766,"endTime":3896.699,"body":"functional physical understanding of an"},{"startTime":3896.699,"endTime":3898.766,"body":"engagement with the universe space, that"},{"startTime":3898.766,"endTime":3900.166,"body":"that's where the curiosity"},{"startTime":3900.166,"endTime":3901.466,"body":"and creativity have to stop."},{"startTime":3901.466,"endTime":3902.9,"body":"My God, that's exactly"},{"startTime":3902.9,"endTime":3903.733,"body":"where we need it most."},{"startTime":3904.599,"endTime":3905.833,"body":"And, you know, it's fantastic that we"},{"startTime":3905.833,"endTime":3908.599,"body":"have it in art that doesn't have a, you"},{"startTime":3908.599,"endTime":3911.266,"body":"know, an art and also craft, but like art"},{"startTime":3911.266,"endTime":3912.533,"body":"that doesn't have an"},{"startTime":3912.533,"endTime":3913.666,"body":"obvious practical use."},{"startTime":3914.133,"endTime":3917.3,"body":"But it's frankly, amazing there."},{"startTime":3918.066,"endTime":3919.333,"body":"And if we have to"},{"startTime":3919.333,"endTime":3921.266,"body":"prioritize, it's more important."},{"startTime":3921.266,"endTime":3923.633,"body":"The creativity and the openness is more"},{"startTime":3923.633,"endTime":3926.3,"body":"important in science than in art."},{"startTime":3926.966,"endTime":3930.199,"body":"And it is a amazing misapprehension of"},{"startTime":3930.199,"endTime":3932.033,"body":"what science is to imagine that it"},{"startTime":3932.033,"endTime":3935.233,"body":"doesn't involve creativity and discovery."},{"startTime":3936.266,"endTime":3939.733,"body":"I think at one level, if something"},{"startTime":3940.166,"endTime":3942.733,"body":"causes, you know, there are obviously"},{"startTime":3942.733,"endTime":3944.633,"body":"people with low standards or whatever, or"},{"startTime":3944.633,"endTime":3945.966,"body":"people with perverse desires."},{"startTime":3946.266,"endTime":3948.633,"body":"But if something causes your average"},{"startTime":3948.633,"endTime":3951.366,"body":"person to go, wow, that's really cool."},{"startTime":3951.833,"endTime":3954.0,"body":"It's probably worth doing whatever it is,"},{"startTime":3954.0,"endTime":3954.966,"body":"whatever realm it is."},{"startTime":3955.333,"endTime":3955.566,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3955.566,"endTime":3955.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3955.833,"endTime":3957.766,"body":"If it's creating optical illusions, if"},{"startTime":3957.766,"endTime":3959.733,"body":"it's some kind of acrobatic feat that you"},{"startTime":3959.733,"endTime":3961.666,"body":"wouldn't have thought possible, parkour,"},{"startTime":3961.866,"endTime":3963.266,"body":"parkour, engineering,"},{"startTime":3963.633,"endTime":3965.066,"body":"any of these things."},{"startTime":3965.066,"endTime":3965.266,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3965.933,"endTime":3967.833,"body":"So, you know, why?"},{"startTime":3968.066,"endTime":3968.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3968.3,"endTime":3969.266,"body":"I mean, sport in general."},{"startTime":3969.533,"endTime":3969.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3970.333,"endTime":3970.633,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3970.633,"endTime":3973.266,"body":"And in fact, you know, one of the, it's a"},{"startTime":3973.266,"endTime":3975.133,"body":"horrifying age in many ways, but one of"},{"startTime":3975.133,"endTime":3978.066,"body":"the benefits of this age is that you can"},{"startTime":3978.066,"endTime":3981.0,"body":"look out across disciplines and you can"},{"startTime":3981.0,"endTime":3984.099,"body":"watch human beings do things you would"},{"startTime":3984.099,"endTime":3986.599,"body":"not think possible, right?"},{"startTime":3986.966,"endTime":3989.666,"body":"Manage their center of gravity in a way"},{"startTime":3989.666,"endTime":3991.4,"body":"that doesn't seem possible."},{"startTime":3991.633,"endTime":3994.333,"body":"Play ping pong at a speed with dexterity"},{"startTime":3994.333,"endTime":3996.566,"body":"you wouldn't imagine could happen."},{"startTime":3997.133,"endTime":3997.4,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":3998.533,"endTime":4000.833,"body":"whatever they, these things are, what"},{"startTime":4000.833,"endTime":4002.366,"body":"you're actually discovering is what the"},{"startTime":4002.4,"endTime":4004.866,"body":"limits of that organism are."},{"startTime":4005.099,"endTime":4006.933,"body":"And the limits of that organism are"},{"startTime":4006.933,"endTime":4008.766,"body":"amazing precisely because we're not"},{"startTime":4008.766,"endTime":4009.966,"body":"specialized on anything."},{"startTime":4010.933,"endTime":4013.066,"body":"So, you know, discovering what we can do."},{"startTime":4013.066,"endTime":4013.666,"body":"As a species, we're not"},{"startTime":4013.666,"endTime":4014.833,"body":"specialized on anything."},{"startTime":4014.833,"endTime":4015.033,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4015.033,"endTime":4016.333,"body":"We've, we've, we've talked about this a"},{"startTime":4016.333,"endTime":4019.466,"body":"lot, but we, we, we tend to be a species"},{"startTime":4019.466,"endTime":4021.066,"body":"that is a generalist where each"},{"startTime":4021.066,"endTime":4022.966,"body":"individual has various specializations."},{"startTime":4022.966,"endTime":4023.566,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4023.566,"endTime":4024.633,"body":"And you know, but we can"},{"startTime":4024.633,"endTime":4026.566,"body":"expand them throughout life."},{"startTime":4026.866,"endTime":4028.766,"body":"And knowing once you've seen somebody"},{"startTime":4028.766,"endTime":4031.066,"body":"accomplish something incredible, you"},{"startTime":4031.066,"endTime":4032.933,"body":"actually have a sense of what the"},{"startTime":4032.933,"endTime":4034.199,"body":"possibility space is."},{"startTime":4034.5,"endTime":4036.9,"body":"So it's valid in that regard too."},{"startTime":4037.133,"endTime":4037.4,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4037.4,"endTime":4038.333,"body":"Oh, I didn't realize a human"},{"startTime":4038.333,"endTime":4040.233,"body":"being can do that, but now I do."},{"startTime":4040.233,"endTime":4041.599,"body":"And so the question is, well, okay, what"},{"startTime":4041.599,"endTime":4042.599,"body":"else hasn't been done?"},{"startTime":4043.199,"endTime":4045.466,"body":"And you know, all right, guys, we are"},{"startTime":4045.466,"endTime":4047.333,"body":"stuck down here on the pale blue dot."},{"startTime":4048.099,"endTime":4048.733,"body":"We are, it's beautiful."},{"startTime":4049.199,"endTime":4050.0,"body":"It's lovely."},{"startTime":4051.033,"endTime":4051.933,"body":"It's tragic."},{"startTime":4052.333,"endTime":4055.333,"body":"But if there's one thing we probably"},{"startTime":4055.333,"endTime":4057.566,"body":"ought to figure out, it's what the limits"},{"startTime":4057.566,"endTime":4058.833,"body":"of what we're capable are."},{"startTime":4058.833,"endTime":4060.8,"body":"I mean, yeah, why wouldn't you?"},{"startTime":4061.066,"endTime":4062.833,"body":"What better investment, all of the stuff"},{"startTime":4062.833,"endTime":4064.366,"body":"we're investing in, how many things"},{"startTime":4064.366,"endTime":4065.666,"body":"actually rise to that level?"},{"startTime":4065.866,"endTime":4067.733,"body":"Not that many figuring out what the human"},{"startTime":4067.733,"endTime":4068.866,"body":"animal is capable of."},{"startTime":4069.199,"endTime":4070.366,"body":"That is a worthy investment."},{"startTime":4071.066,"endTime":4072.033,"body":"And that doesn't matter whether we're"},{"startTime":4072.033,"endTime":4073.833,"body":"talking about, you know, a huge"},{"startTime":4073.833,"endTime":4076.8,"body":"organizational effort to get people to"},{"startTime":4076.8,"endTime":4078.366,"body":"the moon or whether we're talking about"},{"startTime":4078.366,"endTime":4080.866,"body":"an individual, you know, discovering"},{"startTime":4080.866,"endTime":4081.966,"body":"something with a guitar."},{"startTime":4082.633,"endTime":4085.266,"body":"It's worth knowing what the limits are"},{"startTime":4085.266,"endTime":4086.866,"body":"and where we haven't found them yet."},{"startTime":4087.166,"endTime":4092.5,"body":"And exposing your discovery to the bright"},{"startTime":4092.5,"endTime":4096.033,"body":"eyed, bushy tailed agree of others and"},{"startTime":4096.033,"endTime":4097.366,"body":"seeing what they think."},{"startTime":4097.833,"endTime":4098.066,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4098.066,"endTime":4100.866,"body":"And, you know, at the smaller, often not"},{"startTime":4100.866,"endTime":4104.633,"body":"scientific, individual scale of creating"},{"startTime":4104.633,"endTime":4107.1,"body":"a new riff on the guitar or, you know, an"},{"startTime":4107.1,"endTime":4108.399,"body":"example with which I'm"},{"startTime":4108.399,"endTime":4110.6,"body":"quite familiar is work in clay."},{"startTime":4111.866,"endTime":4114.566,"body":"And, I mean, you know that we live with a"},{"startTime":4114.566,"endTime":4116.233,"body":"whole bunch of apparently mismatched"},{"startTime":4116.233,"endTime":4120.399,"body":"pottery in our cabinets because when I"},{"startTime":4120.399,"endTime":4125.3,"body":"find a bowl that is appealing to me in"},{"startTime":4125.3,"endTime":4130.533,"body":"heft and in form and in glaze, and I tend"},{"startTime":4130.533,"endTime":4131.666,"body":"to buy it and put it in the"},{"startTime":4131.666,"endTime":4133.1,"body":"cabinet, and we eat from it."},{"startTime":4133.366,"endTime":4134.3,"body":"Because these things aren't precious."},{"startTime":4134.533,"endTime":4135.5,"body":"You know, there are certainly, you know,"},{"startTime":4135.533,"endTime":4136.399,"body":"things that we have"},{"startTime":4136.399,"endTime":4137.333,"body":"that we don't eat from."},{"startTime":4137.333,"endTime":4138.399,"body":"But in general, you know, like we've just"},{"startTime":4138.399,"endTime":4140.266,"body":"got, you know, a certain amount of"},{"startTime":4140.266,"endTime":4142.399,"body":"objects that have been handmade with"},{"startTime":4142.399,"endTime":4144.399,"body":"different clay bodies, fired at different"},{"startTime":4144.399,"endTime":4146.833,"body":"temperatures, with different clases fired"},{"startTime":4146.833,"endTime":4148.433,"body":"in either an oxidation or reduction"},{"startTime":4148.466,"endTime":4150.033,"body":"environment with different amounts of"},{"startTime":4150.033,"endTime":4153.433,"body":"underglaze or slip or carving or, you"},{"startTime":4153.433,"endTime":4154.633,"body":"know, any number of things."},{"startTime":4155.033,"endTime":4156.8,"body":"And every time I hold one of these"},{"startTime":4156.8,"endTime":4158.333,"body":"objects, I mean, you see be doing it all"},{"startTime":4158.333,"endTime":4160.533,"body":"the time, I'm just appreciating the"},{"startTime":4160.533,"endTime":4161.733,"body":"artistry and trying to"},{"startTime":4161.733,"endTime":4162.6,"body":"figure out what they did."},{"startTime":4163.1,"endTime":4164.566,"body":"And sometimes I don't, I can't know."},{"startTime":4165.533,"endTime":4167.533,"body":"Sometimes I think I know and I if I have"},{"startTime":4167.533,"endTime":4169.533,"body":"opportunity to talk to the artist, which"},{"startTime":4169.533,"endTime":4170.933,"body":"sometimes I do, I'm"},{"startTime":4170.933,"endTime":4172.133,"body":"surprised by what they say."},{"startTime":4173.033,"endTime":4175.199,"body":"And all of that is just opportunity for"},{"startTime":4175.199,"endTime":4178.699,"body":"learning and to create new things that"},{"startTime":4178.699,"endTime":4179.733,"body":"may branch off of that."},{"startTime":4180.199,"endTime":4181.966,"body":"Or sometimes you'll see something and"},{"startTime":4181.966,"endTime":4183.233,"body":"say, Oh, that's, that's"},{"startTime":4183.233,"endTime":4185.266,"body":"nothing that I want to do."},{"startTime":4185.266,"endTime":4186.699,"body":"I don't want that in my life."},{"startTime":4186.899,"endTime":4189.233,"body":"But I'm super impressed by"},{"startTime":4189.233,"endTime":4190.899,"body":"the capacity to have done that."},{"startTime":4191.266,"endTime":4192.833,"body":"And I want to know what"},{"startTime":4192.833,"endTime":4194.266,"body":"all went into that thing."},{"startTime":4194.266,"endTime":4195.566,"body":"And sometimes it's mimicry."},{"startTime":4195.566,"endTime":4197.933,"body":"And actually, we have, we have a mug that"},{"startTime":4197.933,"endTime":4200.766,"body":"I particularly like, I think I got for"},{"startTime":4200.766,"endTime":4202.666,"body":"you, but I like it, I like it more."},{"startTime":4203.566,"endTime":4204.833,"body":"That looks like it's"},{"startTime":4204.833,"endTime":4206.433,"body":"made of pipes, right?"},{"startTime":4206.433,"endTime":4208.066,"body":"And it's and it's not, it's, it's"},{"startTime":4208.066,"endTime":4209.933,"body":"entirely made of clay, but it looks and"},{"startTime":4209.933,"endTime":4211.533,"body":"it has the heft of it looks like it's"},{"startTime":4211.533,"endTime":4213.766,"body":"made from, from plumbing fittings, the"},{"startTime":4213.766,"endTime":4214.566,"body":"handle and just it"},{"startTime":4214.566,"endTime":4215.633,"body":"feels great in the hand."},{"startTime":4216.166,"endTime":4218.433,"body":"But I did talk to the artist in that"},{"startTime":4218.433,"endTime":4219.766,"body":"case, I was I was out of Portland,"},{"startTime":4220.233,"endTime":4222.8,"body":"Oregon, and just, you know, the capacity"},{"startTime":4222.8,"endTime":4225.633,"body":"to have looked at a real functional thing"},{"startTime":4225.633,"endTime":4227.933,"body":"and said, Okay, I think that would make"},{"startTime":4227.933,"endTime":4230.566,"body":"an interesting form on a mug."},{"startTime":4231.266,"endTime":4233.933,"body":"I'm going to make this metal thing into"},{"startTime":4233.933,"endTime":4236.1,"body":"clay, I'm going to make a clay thing that"},{"startTime":4236.1,"endTime":4237.966,"body":"exactly mimics that metal thing to such a"},{"startTime":4237.966,"endTime":4240.866,"body":"degree that anyone picking it up actually"},{"startTime":4240.866,"endTime":4243.0,"body":"has to question what it is."},{"startTime":4243.466,"endTime":4244.666,"body":"That is, again, it's in the"},{"startTime":4244.666,"endTime":4245.666,"body":"realm of optical illusion."},{"startTime":4246.133,"endTime":4248.333,"body":"It's in the realm of yes, creativity, of"},{"startTime":4248.333,"endTime":4252.1,"body":"mimicry, of just, you know, expanding"},{"startTime":4252.1,"endTime":4254.6,"body":"your capacity to the edges of what is"},{"startTime":4254.6,"endTime":4255.866,"body":"possible and, you know,"},{"startTime":4255.866,"endTime":4257.333,"body":"and then going further."},{"startTime":4257.633,"endTime":4259.166,"body":"Yeah, pushing pushing the"},{"startTime":4259.166,"endTime":4260.399,"body":"limit is inherently valid."},{"startTime":4260.833,"endTime":4263.266,"body":"And that's probably why all"},{"startTime":4263.266,"endTime":4264.6,"body":"of us are fascinated by it."},{"startTime":4264.933,"endTime":4265.133,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":4265.533,"endTime":4265.733,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4266.366,"endTime":4266.766,"body":"Really?"},{"startTime":4266.766,"endTime":4269.3,"body":"Who do you know who isn't looking at"},{"startTime":4269.3,"endTime":4272.266,"body":"these things documented and"},{"startTime":4272.266,"endTime":4273.733,"body":"thinking that one's really cool."},{"startTime":4274.233,"endTime":4275.066,"body":"That one doesn't impress me."},{"startTime":4275.066,"endTime":4275.866,"body":"Oh, this one does."},{"startTime":4276.133,"endTime":4278.399,"body":"But we are in some sense, it's"},{"startTime":4278.399,"endTime":4280.366,"body":"galvanizing that we're all obsessed with"},{"startTime":4280.699,"endTime":4282.833,"body":"seeing things that, Oh, I've never seen"},{"startTime":4282.833,"endTime":4283.866,"body":"anybody do that before."},{"startTime":4283.866,"endTime":4284.6,"body":"That's pretty amazing."},{"startTime":4285.899,"endTime":4287.333,"body":"That obsession is there for a reason."},{"startTime":4287.333,"endTime":4289.533,"body":"And we should, we should not overthink it"},{"startTime":4289.533,"endTime":4291.666,"body":"the way this woman at the Guardian was"},{"startTime":4291.666,"endTime":4293.466,"body":"clearly overthinking it."},{"startTime":4293.466,"endTime":4296.566,"body":"And I think we can also say that the"},{"startTime":4296.566,"endTime":4299.066,"body":"Artemis 2 mission, if it"},{"startTime":4299.066,"endTime":4300.466,"body":"was a mission was successful."},{"startTime":4300.466,"endTime":4302.666,"body":"And if it was a SIAP, it's not quite as"},{"startTime":4302.666,"endTime":4304.366,"body":"successful, but still impressive."},{"startTime":4305.8,"endTime":4306.566,"body":"You can say that."},{"startTime":4306.833,"endTime":4307.033,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4307.866,"endTime":4308.699,"body":"I did say that."},{"startTime":4309.233,"endTime":4309.433,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4309.6,"endTime":4310.666,"body":"It was perhaps clumsy."},{"startTime":4311.066,"endTime":4313.0,"body":"I think a human could do better, but I"},{"startTime":4313.0,"endTime":4313.966,"body":"remain to see it done."},{"startTime":4316.066,"endTime":4317.199,"body":"I think I actually want to"},{"startTime":4317.199,"endTime":4318.433,"body":"hold off on the other things."},{"startTime":4319.733,"endTime":4322.966,"body":"I enjoyed talking about, I mean, I think"},{"startTime":4322.966,"endTime":4323.966,"body":"you might have something you want to talk"},{"startTime":4323.966,"endTime":4324.433,"body":"about, but I had a"},{"startTime":4324.433,"endTime":4324.966,"body":"couple of other stories"},{"startTime":4326.0,"endTime":4332.199,"body":"that just are so much more downers and"},{"startTime":4332.199,"endTime":4336.899,"body":"sociopolitical and, you know, about what"},{"startTime":4336.899,"endTime":4339.566,"body":"is happening right here on earth at a"},{"startTime":4339.566,"endTime":4342.833,"body":"very uncreative and an open level that"},{"startTime":4342.833,"endTime":4344.866,"body":"they'll save, unfortunately,"},{"startTime":4346.233,"endTime":4347.433,"body":"because the, you know, the"},{"startTime":4347.433,"endTime":4348.266,"body":"corruption will continue."},{"startTime":4349.199,"endTime":4349.433,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":4350.0,"endTime":4351.466,"body":"Well, I do have one other thing."},{"startTime":4352.466,"endTime":4353.699,"body":"I hope you'll give me a"},{"startTime":4353.699,"endTime":4354.733,"body":"little leash for this."},{"startTime":4354.733,"endTime":4357.533,"body":"It's not, I think you'll see why it's"},{"startTime":4357.533,"endTime":4358.366,"body":"worth talking about once"},{"startTime":4358.366,"endTime":4359.5,"body":"we, once we look at it."},{"startTime":4359.5,"endTime":4360.666,"body":"You realize you're not wearing a collar."},{"startTime":4362.233,"endTime":4362.933,"body":"Metaphorical entirely."},{"startTime":4363.233,"endTime":4363.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4363.6,"endTime":4363.8,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4364.066,"endTime":4366.666,"body":"If I was, it'd be spiked for sure."},{"startTime":4366.666,"endTime":4367.533,"body":"But that doesn't"},{"startTime":4367.533,"endTime":4368.699,"body":"preclude a leash, I think."},{"startTime":4369.166,"endTime":4369.566,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":4369.566,"endTime":4372.333,"body":"I've never had a spiked collar, but Jen,"},{"startTime":4372.333,"endTime":4374.566,"body":"do you have the tweet and"},{"startTime":4374.566,"endTime":4375.8,"body":"video you want to show that video?"},{"startTime":4376.533,"endTime":4377.133,"body":"It's just me."},{"startTime":4377.633,"endTime":4379.199,"body":"There's anyone else slightly concerned"},{"startTime":4379.833,"endTime":4382.1,"body":"what professors can see when you upload"},{"startTime":4382.1,"endTime":4383.699,"body":"your paper for them to grade it?"},{"startTime":4383.699,"endTime":4385.066,"body":"Because I am grading a student's paper"},{"startTime":4385.066,"endTime":4388.5,"body":"and I'm a TA and this professor is having"},{"startTime":4388.5,"endTime":4390.733,"body":"me do something that he's never had me do"},{"startTime":4390.733,"endTime":4391.966,"body":"before when it comes to creating a"},{"startTime":4391.966,"endTime":4392.8,"body":"college students paper."},{"startTime":4393.233,"endTime":4395.266,"body":"And I want to show you guys what this is"},{"startTime":4395.266,"endTime":4397.5,"body":"and like what you guys should look out"},{"startTime":4397.5,"endTime":4398.899,"body":"for if you're currently"},{"startTime":4398.899,"endTime":4400.066,"body":"making essays in college."},{"startTime":4400.399,"endTime":4400.633,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4401.033,"endTime":4402.966,"body":"So this is a student's paper that I"},{"startTime":4402.966,"endTime":4404.066,"body":"pulled up in Google docs"},{"startTime":4404.066,"endTime":4405.433,"body":"as a real students paper."},{"startTime":4406.066,"endTime":4408.966,"body":"And when I come over here to this black"},{"startTime":4408.966,"endTime":4412.766,"body":"dot from GPT zero, what it does is it"},{"startTime":4412.766,"endTime":4414.866,"body":"pulls up basically an AI detector."},{"startTime":4414.866,"endTime":4415.766,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4416.333,"endTime":4418.6,"body":"But the real thing is we can obviously"},{"startTime":4418.6,"endTime":4420.0,"body":"see this is a human paper."},{"startTime":4420.0,"endTime":4420.199,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4420.199,"endTime":4422.033,"body":"The student didn't use AI or chat GPT to"},{"startTime":4422.033,"endTime":4423.533,"body":"write the paper, but the way that we're"},{"startTime":4423.533,"endTime":4425.366,"body":"proving it now, that my professors never"},{"startTime":4425.366,"endTime":4427.833,"body":"had us do until now is this button right"},{"startTime":4427.833,"endTime":4430.033,"body":"here called the typing analysis."},{"startTime":4431.199,"endTime":4433.833,"body":"Guys, what this does is it pulls up a"},{"startTime":4433.833,"endTime":4437.033,"body":"video in real time showing you exactly"},{"startTime":4437.033,"endTime":4438.533,"body":"how a student typed the paper."},{"startTime":4439.0,"endTime":4441.633,"body":"So it shows all of the front spaces and"},{"startTime":4441.633,"endTime":4443.233,"body":"like all the back spaces, all the"},{"startTime":4443.233,"endTime":4445.333,"body":"keystrokes a student made when writing"},{"startTime":4445.333,"endTime":4447.533,"body":"out the essay, then it shows all the"},{"startTime":4447.533,"endTime":4448.633,"body":"pastes and all the"},{"startTime":4448.633,"endTime":4449.633,"body":"edits the student made."},{"startTime":4450.066,"endTime":4451.233,"body":"And if you come over here, you can see"},{"startTime":4451.233,"endTime":4453.033,"body":"the timestamp when the student upload the"},{"startTime":4453.033,"endTime":4455.066,"body":"paper into Google docs, how many words"},{"startTime":4455.066,"endTime":4457.0,"body":"are in the paper, how many edits and"},{"startTime":4457.0,"endTime":4458.899,"body":"pastes are, how long it took"},{"startTime":4458.899,"endTime":4459.966,"body":"the student to write the paper."},{"startTime":4460.633,"endTime":4462.433,"body":"Then it shows the editors of the paper."},{"startTime":4462.433,"endTime":4463.833,"body":"So the student and the professor who both"},{"startTime":4463.833,"endTime":4466.1,"body":"made edits to this paper, and then this"},{"startTime":4466.1,"endTime":4468.033,"body":"typing analysis, where it says if it's"},{"startTime":4468.033,"endTime":4470.966,"body":"natural or unnatural sounding, and this"},{"startTime":4470.966,"endTime":4473.433,"body":"paper is 100% natural sounding because of"},{"startTime":4473.433,"endTime":4475.566,"body":"the pauses, errors, and"},{"startTime":4475.566,"endTime":4477.433,"body":"changes in speed and rhythm."},{"startTime":4478.066,"endTime":4479.733,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":4480.066,"endTime":4480.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4480.6,"endTime":4480.8,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":4481.133,"endTime":4482.966,"body":"Now I do have to say a few things before"},{"startTime":4482.966,"endTime":4484.8,"body":"we get to discussing the implications"},{"startTime":4484.8,"endTime":4485.966,"body":"here of which there are many."},{"startTime":4486.966,"endTime":4489.066,"body":"There is something weird about this in"},{"startTime":4489.066,"endTime":4491.333,"body":"the sense that you couldn't do that"},{"startTime":4491.333,"endTime":4494.233,"body":"analysis, I believe, with something that"},{"startTime":4494.233,"endTime":4498.733,"body":"you wrote in Word or I use"},{"startTime":4498.733,"endTime":4501.199,"body":"LibreOffice, the free version."},{"startTime":4501.5,"endTime":4501.933,"body":"Why don't you think"},{"startTime":4501.933,"endTime":4504.066,"body":"it could work in Word?"},{"startTime":4504.399,"endTime":4506.566,"body":"Because I don't think Word"},{"startTime":4506.566,"endTime":4509.633,"body":"records the data about what"},{"startTime":4509.633,"endTime":4510.166,"body":"you did."},{"startTime":4510.166,"endTime":4511.0,"body":"This was a Google doc?"},{"startTime":4511.566,"endTime":4512.633,"body":"Google doc, exactly."},{"startTime":4513.0,"endTime":4513.199,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":4513.433,"endTime":4514.933,"body":"Now I'm not saying the information"},{"startTime":4514.933,"endTime":4516.266,"body":"doesn't exist somewhere, but I don't"},{"startTime":4516.266,"endTime":4518.066,"body":"think it exists in a readily readable way"},{"startTime":4518.066,"endTime":4520.433,"body":"in the file that you upload."},{"startTime":4521.8,"endTime":4523.399,"body":"There's obviously also a danger here."},{"startTime":4523.399,"endTime":4524.966,"body":"Let's suppose that your professor, in"},{"startTime":4524.966,"endTime":4526.233,"body":"order to be able to use this tool..."},{"startTime":4526.699,"endTime":4527.466,"body":"Sorry, but no wonder file"},{"startTime":4527.466,"endTime":4528.633,"body":"sizes have gotten so huge."},{"startTime":4529.233,"endTime":4529.433,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":4529.666,"endTime":4530.866,"body":"There's so much data in there."},{"startTime":4530.866,"endTime":4532.733,"body":"Well, there's a lot of data in there."},{"startTime":4533.666,"endTime":4541.833,"body":"But what about the student who does write it"},{"startTime":4541.833,"endTime":4543.699,"body":"in LibreOffice and"},{"startTime":4543.699,"endTime":4546.233,"body":"then cuts and pastes it?"},{"startTime":4546.233,"endTime":4546.5,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4546.5,"endTime":4546.699,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4547.166,"endTime":4548.466,"body":"So it's possible that the professor"},{"startTime":4548.466,"endTime":4551.366,"body":"required students to write in"},{"startTime":4552.866,"endTime":4555.233,"body":"in Google docs in order to be"},{"startTime":4555.233,"endTime":4556.333,"body":"able to do such an analysis."},{"startTime":4556.833,"endTime":4560.366,"body":"Even if that's the case though, it is"},{"startTime":4560.366,"endTime":4563.933,"body":"obviously also the case that we are 30"},{"startTime":4563.933,"endTime":4567.166,"body":"seconds from somebody generating a"},{"startTime":4567.166,"endTime":4569.466,"body":"program that will take a pre-existing"},{"startTime":4569.466,"endTime":4571.866,"body":"document and typing it like a human."},{"startTime":4572.233,"endTime":4572.433,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4572.633,"endTime":4574.766,"body":"So the point is arms race."},{"startTime":4575.266,"endTime":4576.666,"body":"That's where we are."},{"startTime":4577.866,"endTime":4578.066,"body":"But..."},{"startTime":4578.333,"endTime":4580.766,"body":"And this TA's job, this TA's time is now"},{"startTime":4580.766,"endTime":4584.8,"body":"being spent assessing reality of whether"},{"startTime":4584.8,"endTime":4586.833,"body":"or not a human wrote the paper rather"},{"startTime":4586.833,"endTime":4588.733,"body":"than actually assessing the content."},{"startTime":4589.333,"endTime":4589.533,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4589.966,"endTime":4593.0,"body":"Now I did want to make two points as a"},{"startTime":4593.0,"endTime":4596.833,"body":"former professor about the interesting"},{"startTime":4596.833,"endTime":4598.666,"body":"fact of this post AI moment."},{"startTime":4600.133,"endTime":4603.066,"body":"One of them is I think that we just need"},{"startTime":4603.066,"endTime":4607.066,"body":"a rethink on the relationship between"},{"startTime":4607.933,"endTime":4613.399,"body":"three objects, the work, whatever it is,"},{"startTime":4614.133,"endTime":4616.566,"body":"the professor and the student."},{"startTime":4617.933,"endTime":4620.433,"body":"And the point is at this moment,"},{"startTime":4621.033,"endTime":4623.899,"body":"professor and student have both been"},{"startTime":4623.899,"endTime":4628.633,"body":"rendered novice at something fundamental."},{"startTime":4628.633,"endTime":4631.066,"body":"And that's not necessarily bad."},{"startTime":4631.866,"endTime":4634.533,"body":"And I would point out when you and I take"},{"startTime":4634.533,"endTime":4636.466,"body":"students into a tropical forest,"},{"startTime":4638.199,"endTime":4639.333,"body":"we have the benefit,"},{"startTime":4640.366,"endTime":4642.066,"body":"although we know more than they do about"},{"startTime":4642.066,"endTime":4643.066,"body":"it, of knowing that"},{"startTime":4643.066,"endTime":4644.433,"body":"nobody knows all that much."},{"startTime":4645.0,"endTime":4646.833,"body":"So the point is everybody's in student"},{"startTime":4646.833,"endTime":4647.966,"body":"mode and that's good."},{"startTime":4648.199,"endTime":4648.766,"body":"It's wonderful."},{"startTime":4649.066,"endTime":4651.3,"body":"It's ideal really from the"},{"startTime":4651.3,"endTime":4652.133,"body":"point of view of teaching."},{"startTime":4652.133,"endTime":4653.166,"body":"It's part of the reason to go."},{"startTime":4653.633,"endTime":4653.833,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4654.566,"endTime":4657.866,"body":"So I would argue that college needs a"},{"startTime":4657.866,"endTime":4659.966,"body":"rethink and that part of the rethink is"},{"startTime":4659.966,"endTime":4661.866,"body":"not how are the experts going to keep the"},{"startTime":4661.866,"endTime":4663.366,"body":"students from cheating and pretending to"},{"startTime":4663.366,"endTime":4664.666,"body":"be more expert than they are."},{"startTime":4664.866,"endTime":4666.033,"body":"That's not the job anymore."},{"startTime":4666.3,"endTime":4667.6,"body":"AI isn't going anywhere."},{"startTime":4668.033,"endTime":4669.3,"body":"So in some sense, you are."},{"startTime":4669.3,"endTime":4670.466,"body":"It never should have been the main job."},{"startTime":4670.933,"endTime":4671.133,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4671.633,"endTime":4671.833,"body":"No."},{"startTime":4672.199,"endTime":4673.466,"body":"Policing the cheaters."},{"startTime":4673.833,"endTime":4675.566,"body":"That's not the highest and best use of an"},{"startTime":4675.566,"endTime":4676.266,"body":"excellent professor."},{"startTime":4676.866,"endTime":4677.066,"body":"No."},{"startTime":4677.433,"endTime":4680.533,"body":"And I would point out that the, I know"},{"startTime":4680.533,"endTime":4682.233,"body":"people will hear this as hyperbole."},{"startTime":4682.466,"endTime":4683.966,"body":"I mean it perfectly literally."},{"startTime":4684.666,"endTime":4686.966,"body":"The academy was essentially"},{"startTime":4686.966,"endTime":4689.333,"body":"a fraud before the AI era."},{"startTime":4689.866,"endTime":4690.333,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4690.333,"endTime":4692.633,"body":"You had a huge number of people"},{"startTime":4692.633,"endTime":4694.399,"body":"pretending to be expert in something."},{"startTime":4694.699,"endTime":4696.466,"body":"They themselves often did not know,"},{"startTime":4696.5,"endTime":4698.166,"body":"probably almost all of them didn't know"},{"startTime":4698.166,"endTime":4699.733,"body":"that they were frauds."},{"startTime":4699.733,"endTime":4701.6,"body":"But you can tell if you look at their"},{"startTime":4701.6,"endTime":4704.199,"body":"performance on sex and gender, if you"},{"startTime":4704.199,"endTime":4705.866,"body":"look at their performance on COVID, if"},{"startTime":4705.866,"endTime":4707.333,"body":"you look at their performance on string"},{"startTime":4707.333,"endTime":4710.066,"body":"theory, there's no shortage of evidence"},{"startTime":4710.066,"endTime":4712.5,"body":"that the academy is full of people who"},{"startTime":4712.5,"endTime":4714.166,"body":"aren't in a position to tell anybody"},{"startTime":4714.166,"endTime":4715.199,"body":"anything because of the"},{"startTime":4715.199,"endTime":4716.633,"body":"most basic tests they fail."},{"startTime":4717.199,"endTime":4720.733,"body":"My favorite example, which will be"},{"startTime":4720.733,"endTime":4722.466,"body":"immediately obvious to everyone and it's"},{"startTime":4722.466,"endTime":4726.466,"body":"short, is when I was teaching with a"},{"startTime":4726.466,"endTime":4728.6,"body":"medical anthropologist who declared that"},{"startTime":4728.6,"endTime":4730.133,"body":"malaria had never killed anyone."},{"startTime":4731.3,"endTime":4733.433,"body":"And when called out on this obvious that"},{"startTime":4733.433,"endTime":4735.633,"body":"he must have misspoke and no student"},{"startTime":4735.633,"endTime":4737.0,"body":"raised their hand, it was early in the"},{"startTime":4737.0,"endTime":4738.266,"body":"quarter of it was scared."},{"startTime":4738.266,"endTime":4738.966,"body":"And so I was like, I'm"},{"startTime":4738.966,"endTime":4740.666,"body":"sorry, that's not true."},{"startTime":4741.1,"endTime":4742.366,"body":"Oh yes, it's definitely true."},{"startTime":4742.6,"endTime":4743.666,"body":"Malaria is not actually deadly."},{"startTime":4744.233,"endTime":4746.533,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":4747.1,"endTime":4748.566,"body":"So now it has never"},{"startTime":4748.566,"endTime":4749.899,"body":"actually murdered anyone."},{"startTime":4751.133,"endTime":4751.899,"body":"This is true."},{"startTime":4752.266,"endTime":4753.233,"body":"I mean, that, you know, that's a"},{"startTime":4753.233,"endTime":4755.466,"body":"defensible, if pedantic claim."},{"startTime":4756.133,"endTime":4759.466,"body":"But, okay, so what should college"},{"startTime":4759.466,"endTime":4760.466,"body":"professors be doing?"},{"startTime":4761.199,"endTime":4762.166,"body":"I think one thing that is"},{"startTime":4762.166,"endTime":4763.733,"body":"perfectly clear is this."},{"startTime":4765.166,"endTime":4768.266,"body":"Your students are going to go into a"},{"startTime":4768.266,"endTime":4771.1,"body":"world that we cannot foresee, but in"},{"startTime":4771.1,"endTime":4773.266,"body":"which AI is going to be a dominant"},{"startTime":4773.266,"endTime":4775.133,"body":"feature in the same way that computers"},{"startTime":4775.133,"endTime":4777.166,"body":"are now a dominant feature in the same"},{"startTime":4777.166,"endTime":4779.033,"body":"way that search is a dominant feature."},{"startTime":4779.433,"endTime":4780.066,"body":"So the point is you're"},{"startTime":4780.066,"endTime":4781.933,"body":"training them for that world."},{"startTime":4782.466,"endTime":4785.466,"body":"The best thing you can do for them, all"},{"startTime":4785.466,"endTime":4787.533,"body":"the money they're paying to go to hear"},{"startTime":4787.533,"endTime":4791.333,"body":"you, the best thing you can do is figure"},{"startTime":4791.333,"endTime":4795.666,"body":"out how to train them to leverage that"},{"startTime":4795.666,"endTime":4797.8,"body":"thing rather than use it to"},{"startTime":4797.8,"endTime":4799.566,"body":"supplant their own capacity."},{"startTime":4799.966,"endTime":4803.666,"body":"You want to use it to make them smarter."},{"startTime":4803.666,"endTime":4804.533,"body":"That is your job."},{"startTime":4805.033,"endTime":4806.766,"body":"To make them smarter, that's your job."},{"startTime":4807.033,"endTime":4808.666,"body":"They're not trying, they should not be of"},{"startTime":4808.666,"endTime":4809.466,"body":"the mindset of they're"},{"startTime":4809.466,"endTime":4810.699,"body":"producing valuable work."},{"startTime":4810.699,"endTime":4811.966,"body":"They don't do that in college typically."},{"startTime":4812.399,"endTime":4813.733,"body":"Bring it in as a tool like"},{"startTime":4813.733,"endTime":4815.3,"body":"you bring in books as tools."},{"startTime":4816.033,"endTime":4816.266,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":4816.833,"endTime":4818.466,"body":"And not, you can't bring it in the same"},{"startTime":4818.466,"endTime":4819.433,"body":"way that you bring in"},{"startTime":4819.433,"endTime":4821.233,"body":"books, but use it as a tool."},{"startTime":4821.233,"endTime":4822.233,"body":"You already use tools."},{"startTime":4822.766,"endTime":4824.266,"body":"You already use technology."},{"startTime":4824.633,"endTime":4825.466,"body":"A book is technology."},{"startTime":4826.033,"endTime":4827.133,"body":"Computers are technology."},{"startTime":4827.566,"endTime":4828.8,"body":"So here it is."},{"startTime":4828.8,"endTime":4829.433,"body":"Here's the newest."},{"startTime":4830.399,"endTime":4832.933,"body":"And because, you know,"},{"startTime":4833.966,"endTime":4834.899,"body":"if I had to guess,"},{"startTime":4836.699,"endTime":4839.899,"body":"you and the students don't understand AI"},{"startTime":4839.899,"endTime":4841.466,"body":"and how it might be leveraged."},{"startTime":4841.766,"endTime":4843.133,"body":"But if anybody understands it, they"},{"startTime":4843.133,"endTime":4844.733,"body":"probably understand it better than you do"},{"startTime":4844.733,"endTime":4847.333,"body":"just given the age and exposure."},{"startTime":4847.866,"endTime":4849.366,"body":"So I don't know that"},{"startTime":4849.366,"endTime":4850.333,"body":"that's necessarily true."},{"startTime":4850.733,"endTime":4854.266,"body":"I've said this before, but for an"},{"startTime":4854.266,"endTime":4856.199,"body":"accident of timing, we were teaching"},{"startTime":4856.199,"endTime":4858.133,"body":"exactly millennials."},{"startTime":4858.633,"endTime":4860.533,"body":"I mean, a lot of older students too, but"},{"startTime":4860.533,"endTime":4861.733,"body":"they're just the years in which we were"},{"startTime":4861.733,"endTime":4864.466,"body":"professors were the years in which age"},{"startTime":4864.466,"endTime":4867.233,"body":"typical millennials were in college."},{"startTime":4868.233,"endTime":4869.766,"body":"And that was supposedly the first"},{"startTime":4869.766,"endTime":4871.666,"body":"generation of digital natives."},{"startTime":4872.533,"endTime":4875.166,"body":"And almost always I found that I had far"},{"startTime":4875.166,"endTime":4877.333,"body":"greater technological capacity and"},{"startTime":4877.333,"endTime":4878.033,"body":"understanding of what"},{"startTime":4878.033,"endTime":4879.066,"body":"was actually going on."},{"startTime":4879.066,"endTime":4880.233,"body":"Now, you know, my dad was a computer"},{"startTime":4880.233,"endTime":4881.466,"body":"scientist, but I don't"},{"startTime":4881.466,"endTime":4882.3,"body":"think that's what it was."},{"startTime":4882.3,"endTime":4883.733,"body":"I think it was that they had been handed"},{"startTime":4883.733,"endTime":4886.633,"body":"so many systems that were prefab that"},{"startTime":4886.633,"endTime":4888.199,"body":"they just, when they needed to solve a"},{"startTime":4888.199,"endTime":4889.633,"body":"problem, they're like, well, what?"},{"startTime":4889.866,"endTime":4890.899,"body":"I just, where's the app?"},{"startTime":4890.899,"endTime":4891.333,"body":"Or, you know, where's,"},{"startTime":4891.533,"endTime":4892.666,"body":"where's, where's the button?"},{"startTime":4892.666,"endTime":4892.866,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":4892.933,"endTime":4894.433,"body":"As opposed to, you're actually going to"},{"startTime":4894.433,"endTime":4896.266,"body":"have to solve some of your problems here."},{"startTime":4896.266,"endTime":4896.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4896.8,"endTime":4899.166,"body":"So I think that part of that"},{"startTime":4899.166,"endTime":4900.566,"body":"is going to happen with AI too."},{"startTime":4900.566,"endTime":4902.633,"body":"The people who are coming of age into AI"},{"startTime":4902.633,"endTime":4904.933,"body":"are adopting it in a way"},{"startTime":4904.933,"endTime":4907.199,"body":"that, that they aren't pushing it."},{"startTime":4907.433,"endTime":4907.966,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":4908.566,"endTime":4909.866,"body":"it's changing super fast."},{"startTime":4910.133,"endTime":4910.333,"body":"So."},{"startTime":4910.566,"endTime":4912.666,"body":"Well, I don't disagree with what happened"},{"startTime":4912.666,"endTime":4913.899,"body":"with computers, right?"},{"startTime":4913.899,"endTime":4916.033,"body":"The slicker computers got the easier it"},{"startTime":4916.033,"endTime":4917.833,"body":"was to become an expert user without"},{"startTime":4917.833,"endTime":4919.733,"body":"knowing anything about how to actually do"},{"startTime":4919.733,"endTime":4921.366,"body":"anything yourself, because there was a"},{"startTime":4921.366,"endTime":4922.966,"body":"solution packaged for you."},{"startTime":4922.966,"endTime":4923.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4923.8,"endTime":4925.5,"body":"That's not where we are with AI yet."},{"startTime":4925.5,"endTime":4926.566,"body":"It's changing so quickly."},{"startTime":4927.3,"endTime":4931.466,"body":"And I do think that figuring out how to"},{"startTime":4931.466,"endTime":4934.133,"body":"get this beast to do"},{"startTime":4934.133,"endTime":4937.666,"body":"your bidding is a skill."},{"startTime":4938.866,"endTime":4942.766,"body":"And I think if I had to guess, the folks"},{"startTime":4942.766,"endTime":4948.533,"body":"in the Academy, the faculty are liable to"},{"startTime":4948.533,"endTime":4950.266,"body":"be late to the party in this regard."},{"startTime":4950.866,"endTime":4951.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":4951.233,"endTime":4952.266,"body":"Anyway, either way,"},{"startTime":4953.366,"endTime":4954.1,"body":"I do think."},{"startTime":4954.1,"endTime":4956.399,"body":"And that, of course they will be, because"},{"startTime":4956.399,"endTime":4957.399,"body":"in general, it's a"},{"startTime":4957.399,"endTime":4958.633,"body":"slow moving population."},{"startTime":4960.199,"endTime":4961.666,"body":"They're slow to react to change."},{"startTime":4962.466,"endTime":4962.666,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4962.966,"endTime":4964.733,"body":"And if you just model this"},{"startTime":4964.733,"endTime":4965.933,"body":"in your mind for a second,"},{"startTime":4967.233,"endTime":4970.333,"body":"imagine the faculty party in which"},{"startTime":4970.333,"endTime":4973.533,"body":"faculty are discussing AI and imagine the"},{"startTime":4973.533,"endTime":4976.266,"body":"eye rolling that will be done and the"},{"startTime":4976.266,"endTime":4979.199,"body":"effective applause that will follow from"},{"startTime":4979.199,"endTime":4981.633,"body":"it over, well, here's how I'm excluding"},{"startTime":4981.633,"endTime":4982.699,"body":"it from my classroom."},{"startTime":4983.199,"endTime":4983.466,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":4983.833,"endTime":4985.766,"body":"The idea being, look, we know how"},{"startTime":4985.766,"endTime":4987.433,"body":"academic work is done"},{"startTime":4987.433,"endTime":4988.933,"body":"and it doesn't involve AI."},{"startTime":4989.166,"endTime":4990.633,"body":"Now, that's true at one level."},{"startTime":4990.966,"endTime":4993.6,"body":"You don't want students faking their"},{"startTime":4993.6,"endTime":4995.166,"body":"success in your field."},{"startTime":4995.733,"endTime":4998.933,"body":"On the other hand, I think in fact,"},{"startTime":4999.199,"endTime":5000.833,"body":"although you haven't said it, you're"},{"startTime":5000.833,"endTime":5003.633,"body":"arguing for two modes that"},{"startTime":5003.633,"endTime":5004.766,"body":"are opposite of one another."},{"startTime":5005.399,"endTime":5007.266,"body":"And almost all of what's being done is in"},{"startTime":5007.266,"endTime":5008.666,"body":"this intermediate muddled mode."},{"startTime":5009.1,"endTime":5009.166,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5009.233,"endTime":5012.833,"body":"We used to wish for when we were on"},{"startTime":5012.833,"endTime":5014.366,"body":"campus teaching, as opposed to in the"},{"startTime":5014.366,"endTime":5017.399,"body":"field, the ability to turn off the wifi"},{"startTime":5017.399,"endTime":5018.266,"body":"and cellular in the"},{"startTime":5018.266,"endTime":5019.333,"body":"classrooms that we were in."},{"startTime":5019.533,"endTime":5020.233,"body":"So to keep people so"},{"startTime":5020.233,"endTime":5021.0,"body":"they weren't distracted."},{"startTime":5021.566,"endTime":5025.3,"body":"And I've said this before, but when it"},{"startTime":5025.3,"endTime":5026.833,"body":"came time to ask for rooms for the"},{"startTime":5026.833,"endTime":5028.899,"body":"quarter, I always asked for rooms with a"},{"startTime":5028.899,"endTime":5031.433,"body":"big window out onto something nice, so"},{"startTime":5031.433,"endTime":5035.033,"body":"that when people become distracted in the"},{"startTime":5035.033,"endTime":5037.5,"body":"middle of class, which will happen, they"},{"startTime":5037.5,"endTime":5040.066,"body":"had something of nature to consider"},{"startTime":5040.066,"endTime":5042.666,"body":"instead of being drawn to their phones or"},{"startTime":5042.666,"endTime":5045.633,"body":"whatever else it might be."},{"startTime":5046.666,"endTime":5049.633,"body":"The argument here isn't we"},{"startTime":5049.633,"endTime":5050.899,"body":"need to get rid of distraction."},{"startTime":5051.733,"endTime":5053.133,"body":"People are too distracted, people are too"},{"startTime":5053.133,"endTime":5053.966,"body":"distracted, but people"},{"startTime":5053.966,"endTime":5055.133,"body":"will always be distracted."},{"startTime":5055.133,"endTime":5056.833,"body":"People will always have a tendency to no"},{"startTime":5056.833,"endTime":5058.166,"body":"matter how much they're excited about the"},{"startTime":5058.166,"endTime":5059.833,"body":"topic at hand, if you're asking them to"},{"startTime":5059.833,"endTime":5061.199,"body":"sit with their butts in seats for an hour"},{"startTime":5061.199,"endTime":5061.866,"body":"and a half straight,"},{"startTime":5061.866,"endTime":5062.966,"body":"my God, it's too much."},{"startTime":5063.633,"endTime":5064.066,"body":"And yet we do it."},{"startTime":5065.033,"endTime":5067.899,"body":"So having space to learn, which is"},{"startTime":5067.899,"endTime":5071.266,"body":"utterly free of influence, except from"},{"startTime":5071.266,"endTime":5072.166,"body":"the nature and the"},{"startTime":5072.166,"endTime":5073.3,"body":"people with whom you are with."},{"startTime":5074.366,"endTime":5075.466,"body":"And then on the other"},{"startTime":5075.466,"endTime":5076.3,"body":"end of the spectrum,"},{"startTime":5077.633,"endTime":5081.199,"body":"engaging and facilitating use of all the"},{"startTime":5081.199,"endTime":5083.1,"body":"tools that are at our disposal and"},{"startTime":5083.1,"endTime":5085.033,"body":"figuring out how we can become better"},{"startTime":5085.033,"endTime":5086.533,"body":"with them, as opposed to be"},{"startTime":5086.533,"endTime":5087.866,"body":"fighting their encroachment."},{"startTime":5088.266,"endTime":5088.466,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":5089.133,"endTime":5090.699,"body":"I would also point out you and I did"},{"startTime":5090.699,"endTime":5094.666,"body":"something pretty unique in the classroom."},{"startTime":5095.466,"endTime":5097.033,"body":"We did it differently, but"},{"startTime":5097.033,"endTime":5098.3,"body":"you and I did it differently."},{"startTime":5098.733,"endTime":5098.933,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5099.333,"endTime":5101.433,"body":"The you and I used to create"},{"startTime":5101.433,"endTime":5105.733,"body":"exams that were sufficiently."},{"startTime":5107.666,"endTime":5108.233,"body":"I don't want to say"},{"startTime":5108.233,"endTime":5110.233,"body":"difficult, but sufficiently novel."},{"startTime":5110.6,"endTime":5112.3,"body":"They were difficult, but sufficiently"},{"startTime":5112.3,"endTime":5114.033,"body":"novel that you and I"},{"startTime":5114.033,"endTime":5115.399,"body":"could also take those exams."},{"startTime":5115.399,"endTime":5116.033,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5116.033,"endTime":5117.433,"body":"That it wasn't like I know the answer to"},{"startTime":5117.433,"endTime":5118.066,"body":"this question, and"},{"startTime":5118.066,"endTime":5119.0,"body":"it's a really hard one."},{"startTime":5119.0,"endTime":5120.166,"body":"Let's see if you do, too."},{"startTime":5120.466,"endTime":5122.966,"body":"Well, they were elaborate evolutionary"},{"startTime":5122.966,"endTime":5126.966,"body":"hypotheticals with narratives that we had"},{"startTime":5126.966,"endTime":5129.766,"body":"either said, OK, the year is now 2100 and"},{"startTime":5129.766,"endTime":5131.633,"body":"here's what else has happened and here's"},{"startTime":5131.933,"endTime":5134.866,"body":"population of ex organisms."},{"startTime":5135.433,"endTime":5135.866,"body":"I'm going to tell you"},{"startTime":5135.866,"endTime":5137.033,"body":"three things about them now."},{"startTime":5137.033,"endTime":5140.133,"body":"I want you to predict their social"},{"startTime":5140.133,"endTime":5142.066,"body":"system, their mating system, their any"},{"startTime":5142.066,"endTime":5143.033,"body":"number of things here."},{"startTime":5143.3,"endTime":5145.766,"body":"Here's a number of planets."},{"startTime":5146.166,"endTime":5146.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5146.366,"endTime":5150.066,"body":"One of mine was, you know, imagine a ring"},{"startTime":5150.066,"endTime":5154.3,"body":"of planets equally distant from a sun in"},{"startTime":5154.3,"endTime":5157.5,"body":"which migration between them is possible."},{"startTime":5158.133,"endTime":5161.166,"body":"So basically, I set a species in motion"},{"startTime":5161.166,"endTime":5164.633,"body":"on a planet and predict changes as it"},{"startTime":5164.633,"endTime":5166.733,"body":"migrates around this circle."},{"startTime":5167.0,"endTime":5168.233,"body":"The equator, I think it was."},{"startTime":5168.666,"endTime":5169.166,"body":"Or you had it."},{"startTime":5169.199,"endTime":5170.466,"body":"There were different ones."},{"startTime":5170.466,"endTime":5172.699,"body":"There's also one in which predict the"},{"startTime":5172.699,"endTime":5177.033,"body":"pattern of species diversity based on a"},{"startTime":5177.033,"endTime":5179.199,"body":"cube like planet that, you know, so it"},{"startTime":5179.199,"endTime":5180.333,"body":"would specify the parameters."},{"startTime":5180.699,"endTime":5181.466,"body":"Let me just say one more."},{"startTime":5181.733,"endTime":5183.699,"body":"So I was very vague about the one that I"},{"startTime":5183.699,"endTime":5185.133,"body":"mentioned of mine, but another one that I"},{"startTime":5185.133,"endTime":5188.166,"body":"was very proud of had a quantitative part"},{"startTime":5188.166,"endTime":5190.766,"body":"for which the math was the math and then"},{"startTime":5190.766,"endTime":5193.266,"body":"a social evolution part for which there"},{"startTime":5193.266,"endTime":5194.733,"body":"were multiple possible"},{"startTime":5194.733,"endTime":5197.633,"body":"answers, some far better than others."},{"startTime":5198.399,"endTime":5201.066,"body":"And the analogy, you know, what you could"},{"startTime":5201.066,"endTime":5202.766,"body":"what I could see as a professor reading"},{"startTime":5202.766,"endTime":5204.699,"body":"and talking with the students about about"},{"startTime":5204.699,"endTime":5207.199,"body":"what they wrote was how good is their how"},{"startTime":5207.199,"endTime":5208.666,"body":"good is their evolutionary thinking?"},{"startTime":5208.866,"endTime":5209.933,"body":"Not did they arrive at"},{"startTime":5209.933,"endTime":5210.833,"body":"the same answer I did."},{"startTime":5210.833,"endTime":5212.733,"body":"And this was what I called the"},{"startTime":5212.733,"endTime":5215.399,"body":"fraternidae, the the imaginary, the"},{"startTime":5215.399,"endTime":5219.3,"body":"fictitious family of beetles that unlike"},{"startTime":5219.3,"endTime":5222.0,"body":"the Hymenoptera, which is the real clade"},{"startTime":5222.0,"endTime":5223.766,"body":"of insects, that includes the ants, bees"},{"startTime":5223.766,"endTime":5225.5,"body":"and wasps, which have this very unusual"},{"startTime":5226.466,"endTime":5228.233,"body":"genetic system in which females are"},{"startTime":5228.233,"endTime":5229.666,"body":"diploid just like we are."},{"startTime":5230.166,"endTime":5232.166,"body":"All of their somatic cells have two"},{"startTime":5232.166,"endTime":5234.433,"body":"copies of each of their chromosomes and"},{"startTime":5234.433,"endTime":5236.699,"body":"males are haploid, which creates really"},{"startTime":5236.699,"endTime":5238.699,"body":"interesting relationships where, you"},{"startTime":5238.699,"endTime":5240.666,"body":"know, full sisters of bees and ants and"},{"startTime":5240.666,"endTime":5241.633,"body":"wasps are three quarters"},{"startTime":5241.633,"endTime":5242.6,"body":"related to one another."},{"startTime":5243.333,"endTime":5245.899,"body":"And male bees don't have dads and you"},{"startTime":5245.899,"endTime":5247.1,"body":"know, a lot that you"},{"startTime":5247.1,"endTime":5248.066,"body":"know, that's reality."},{"startTime":5248.066,"endTime":5248.833,"body":"That's that's science"},{"startTime":5248.833,"endTime":5249.933,"body":"fact, and it's amazing."},{"startTime":5250.566,"endTime":5253.3,"body":"And so in my fraternidae, I had the who"},{"startTime":5253.3,"endTime":5255.133,"body":"was haploid and who was diploid reversed"},{"startTime":5255.133,"endTime":5257.5,"body":"said now do the math and it's not just"},{"startTime":5257.5,"endTime":5259.766,"body":"you get to swap out what is going on in"},{"startTime":5259.766,"endTime":5261.199,"body":"the Hymenoptera, you have to actually,"},{"startTime":5261.199,"endTime":5262.066,"body":"you know, follow the math"},{"startTime":5262.066,"endTime":5263.233,"body":"through and do the genetics on it."},{"startTime":5263.5,"endTime":5265.033,"body":"But then, now that you've got the"},{"startTime":5265.033,"endTime":5266.899,"body":"relationships, tell me about the social"},{"startTime":5266.899,"endTime":5268.899,"body":"system, tell me who's gonna who's gonna"},{"startTime":5268.899,"endTime":5270.533,"body":"be more aligned with whom based on"},{"startTime":5270.533,"endTime":5272.233,"body":"relatedness and who's going to end up in,"},{"startTime":5272.833,"endTime":5274.666,"body":"in, you know, in more competition than"},{"startTime":5274.666,"endTime":5275.933,"body":"you would expect if you were dealing with"},{"startTime":5275.933,"endTime":5277.033,"body":"a fully diploid species."},{"startTime":5277.633,"endTime":5280.1,"body":"And at least at that time, you know,"},{"startTime":5280.1,"endTime":5281.733,"body":"these we were typically giving these as"},{"startTime":5281.733,"endTime":5283.3,"body":"take home exams, right, you know, you're"},{"startTime":5283.3,"endTime":5284.433,"body":"gonna have a few days and then you"},{"startTime":5285.6,"endTime":5286.466,"body":"and then you, you know,"},{"startTime":5286.466,"endTime":5287.633,"body":"upload your your document."},{"startTime":5288.966,"endTime":5291.199,"body":"There was really no cheating unless you"},{"startTime":5291.199,"endTime":5293.266,"body":"happened to be working with someone who"},{"startTime":5293.266,"endTime":5295.5,"body":"had taken a program from us before, in"},{"startTime":5295.5,"endTime":5297.666,"body":"which case, go for it, like talk to them."},{"startTime":5297.666,"endTime":5298.466,"body":"This is about learning"},{"startTime":5298.466,"endTime":5299.633,"body":"how to think evolutionarily."},{"startTime":5300.0,"endTime":5300.199,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":5300.866,"endTime":5305.8,"body":"So the question is, could you adapt such"},{"startTime":5305.8,"endTime":5309.066,"body":"things such that professor and student,"},{"startTime":5309.5,"endTime":5313.233,"body":"both of whom are students of the AI tool"},{"startTime":5313.233,"endTime":5315.566,"body":"and how to leverage it, could you arrange"},{"startTime":5315.566,"endTime":5318.033,"body":"things in such a way that there's no"},{"startTime":5318.033,"endTime":5320.5,"body":"cheating because in effect what you're"},{"startTime":5320.5,"endTime":5321.833,"body":"doing, you know, if you fed these"},{"startTime":5321.833,"endTime":5324.433,"body":"questions to AI, I think different ones"},{"startTime":5324.433,"endTime":5325.466,"body":"would work differently."},{"startTime":5325.466,"endTime":5326.633,"body":"Well, but my guess is"},{"startTime":5326.633,"endTime":5328.633,"body":"the AI would reliably fail."},{"startTime":5328.633,"endTime":5331.5,"body":"And so an assignment in which the point"},{"startTime":5331.5,"endTime":5333.1,"body":"is, give me your"},{"startTime":5333.1,"endTime":5334.366,"body":"answer, run it through AI,"},{"startTime":5335.933,"endTime":5337.466,"body":"see if the AI differs,"},{"startTime":5338.033,"endTime":5339.666,"body":"critique its answer, right?"},{"startTime":5340.533,"endTime":5342.766,"body":"Wow, is that educational, not only at the"},{"startTime":5342.766,"endTime":5345.0,"body":"level, you know, typically our classes"},{"startTime":5346.066,"endTime":5348.033,"body":"worked at multiple levels in the sense"},{"startTime":5348.033,"endTime":5350.399,"body":"that, you know, we're going to teach you"},{"startTime":5350.399,"endTime":5352.899,"body":"how to do a kind of analysis and then"},{"startTime":5352.899,"endTime":5355.433,"body":"we're going to teach you how to think"},{"startTime":5355.433,"endTime":5356.933,"body":"about a particular system."},{"startTime":5356.933,"endTime":5358.1,"body":"And then the point is you're going to"},{"startTime":5358.1,"endTime":5359.1,"body":"walk away with a tool"},{"startTime":5359.1,"endTime":5362.033,"body":"and some insight and"},{"startTime":5362.033,"endTime":5363.6,"body":"you're going to learn how to think"},{"startTime":5364.233,"endTime":5366.733,"body":"actively about things that are said to"},{"startTime":5366.733,"endTime":5368.533,"body":"you, things that you read, whether or not"},{"startTime":5368.533,"endTime":5369.833,"body":"they're coming out of a peer reviewed"},{"startTime":5369.833,"endTime":5372.333,"body":"paper or Wikipedia or your professor or"},{"startTime":5372.333,"endTime":5374.333,"body":"your peer, all of which can be wrong, all"},{"startTime":5374.333,"endTime":5375.333,"body":"of which could be correct."},{"startTime":5375.699,"endTime":5377.866,"body":"But don't mistake tone for accuracy."},{"startTime":5378.399,"endTime":5378.6,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":5379.333,"endTime":5382.866,"body":"So to sum this up, we're"},{"startTime":5382.866,"endTime":5383.8,"body":"somewhere in an arms race."},{"startTime":5384.066,"endTime":5385.399,"body":"This is a moment that's not going to"},{"startTime":5385.399,"endTime":5388.5,"body":"last, but the overall picture is pretty"},{"startTime":5388.5,"endTime":5390.0,"body":"clear for the foreseeable future."},{"startTime":5390.3,"endTime":5392.866,"body":"You've got a phony academy now in charge"},{"startTime":5392.866,"endTime":5394.0,"body":"of a job that none of the"},{"startTime":5394.0,"endTime":5395.366,"body":"people in it trained to do."},{"startTime":5396.033,"endTime":5397.733,"body":"And the smart ones, you know, the ones"},{"startTime":5397.733,"endTime":5400.033,"body":"who aren't a fraud, who are functioning"},{"startTime":5400.033,"endTime":5402.033,"body":"in this environment are going to have to"},{"startTime":5402.033,"endTime":5404.066,"body":"do something innovative in order to"},{"startTime":5404.066,"endTime":5405.766,"body":"manage the problem that the rest of the"},{"startTime":5405.766,"endTime":5407.699,"body":"academy is about to fail at, which is you"},{"startTime":5407.699,"endTime":5410.066,"body":"can't possibly prevent people from"},{"startTime":5410.066,"endTime":5411.833,"body":"cheating because the how do you cheat"},{"startTime":5411.833,"endTime":5414.333,"body":"tools are as powerful as the how do you"},{"startTime":5414.333,"endTime":5416.0,"body":"detect cheating tools?"},{"startTime":5416.266,"endTime":5417.333,"body":"And so, you know, it's"},{"startTime":5417.333,"endTime":5418.366,"body":"become theater, right?"},{"startTime":5418.366,"endTime":5421.5,"body":"The students are producing phony stuff so"},{"startTime":5421.5,"endTime":5422.533,"body":"they don't have to work and the"},{"startTime":5422.533,"endTime":5424.366,"body":"professors are using the same stuff to"},{"startTime":5424.366,"endTime":5425.533,"body":"detect whether they cheated."},{"startTime":5425.8,"endTime":5427.833,"body":"And it's like, okay, you know, what are"},{"startTime":5427.833,"endTime":5429.133,"body":"you teaching them to do exactly?"},{"startTime":5429.466,"endTime":5431.1,"body":"What, what, what job is that?"},{"startTime":5431.866,"endTime":5433.566,"body":"And maybe there is one, but it's not like"},{"startTime":5433.566,"endTime":5435.733,"body":"we can employ the entire population to"},{"startTime":5435.733,"endTime":5438.199,"body":"spot cheaters amongst the entire"},{"startTime":5438.199,"endTime":5439.733,"body":"population, spotting cheaters."},{"startTime":5439.733,"endTime":5441.433,"body":"I mean, it's bullshit jobs to point out."},{"startTime":5441.633,"endTime":5443.366,"body":"It's, it's like"},{"startTime":5443.366,"endTime":5446.633,"body":"exponential bullshit jobs."},{"startTime":5446.633,"endTime":5446.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5447.399,"endTime":5447.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5449.1,"endTime":5450.0,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":5450.0,"endTime":5450.966,"body":"Well, that was good."},{"startTime":5451.433,"endTime":5451.633,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5452.266,"endTime":5453.699,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":5453.833,"endTime":5456.3,"body":"We are going to be back"},{"startTime":5456.3,"endTime":5457.366,"body":"in two and a half weeks."},{"startTime":5457.866,"endTime":5459.166,"body":"And I think it's the,"},{"startTime":5459.733,"endTime":5461.1,"body":"it's the 29th of April."},{"startTime":5461.933,"endTime":5463.733,"body":"In the interim, our older son"},{"startTime":5463.733,"endTime":5464.833,"body":"is going to have a birthday."},{"startTime":5464.833,"endTime":5465.899,"body":"I'm also going to have a birthday, but"},{"startTime":5465.899,"endTime":5467.366,"body":"it's less exciting for me at my age, but"},{"startTime":5467.366,"endTime":5469.0,"body":"he's going to become a"},{"startTime":5469.0,"endTime":5470.366,"body":"palindrome once again."},{"startTime":5471.666,"endTime":5471.866,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":5471.899,"endTime":5472.566,"body":"That's thought."},{"startTime":5472.566,"endTime":5473.766,"body":"That's good news for him."},{"startTime":5474.266,"endTime":5474.733,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":5474.933,"endTime":5475.133,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5475.3,"endTime":5475.533,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":5475.933,"endTime":5476.933,"body":"Doesn't have to change anything."},{"startTime":5476.933,"endTime":5477.466,"body":"I'm going to go on."},{"startTime":5477.633,"endTime":5478.566,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":5479.8,"endTime":5480.0,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":5481.866,"endTime":5485.133,"body":"And yeah, until, until you, and there are"},{"startTime":5485.133,"endTime":5485.933,"body":"going to be a couple of inside rails"},{"startTime":5485.933,"endTime":5487.166,"body":"coming out in the interim,"},{"startTime":5487.166,"endTime":5488.633,"body":"but check us out in locals."},{"startTime":5488.633,"endTime":5490.3,"body":"You'll find all the, all the previous Q"},{"startTime":5490.3,"endTime":5492.166,"body":"and A's where we get into all sorts of"},{"startTime":5492.166,"endTime":5493.633,"body":"conversations that you don't normally"},{"startTime":5493.633,"endTime":5494.699,"body":"hear us talk about here."},{"startTime":5495.333,"endTime":5497.399,"body":"And until you see us next time, be good"},{"startTime":5497.399,"endTime":5498.633,"body":"to the ones you love, eat"},{"startTime":5498.633,"endTime":5500.266,"body":"good food, and get outside."},{"startTime":5500.533,"endTime":5501.033,"body":"Be well, everyone."}]}