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Walking with Jesus Beyond Sunday // Tim Timmons

• Robby Angle

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0:00 | 41:49

What does it look like to actually walk with Jesus in everyday life—not just during church on Sunday? We sat down with Tim Timmons to talk about his new song, "Wreckage and Rain," written for The PATH Album, and the deeper themes of shame, healing, grief, gratitude, and authenticity that inspired it. Together, we explored why following Jesus is more about joining Him in the ordinary moments than performing for others, how hidden wounds keep us stuck, and why taking off the mask can change the way we experience both God and our relationships. We also discussed Tim's upcoming appearance in I Can Only Imagine 2, his battle with stage four cancer, and why hope isn't found in circumstances but in the presence of God.


What We Learned

  • Following Jesus is practiced during the "10,000 minutes" between church gatherings, not just the 80 minutes spent together on Sundays.
  • Authenticity begins when we're willing to stop protecting our own kingdom and start seeking God's kingdom instead.
  • Shame says our failures define us, while healthy correction reminds us we are deeply loved even when we make mistakes.
  • Healing doesn't always come with time alone; God often meets us in the ongoing tension between grief and gratitude.
  • Vulnerability creates space for others to be honest too—the gift of "going first" changes relationships.
  • Biblical belief is more than agreeing with truth; it's living as though that truth is actually real.
  • Hope is rooted in God's presence and His work of restoration, not in getting the outcome we want.
  • Writing songs as prayers creates space for honest conversations with God that others can join.

Resources Mentioned

Produced by Sound of a Rose — https://soundofarose.com

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Introduction and Bio of Tim Timmons

SPEAKER_01

Hey everybody, my name is Benjamin Crawshaw. I'm the director of member engagement at True Face. And I just want to say thank you for all of you out there, wherever you are, whether you're watching this or listening to it while you drive around or walk around. Thank you for hanging out with us today. I'm joined by my co-host, Britney Sori Colson, the director of content at True Face, and we have Tim Timmins joining us. Let's go. And Tim, it's like the bio, it goes on and on. It goes on and on. This the singer song. I'd actually like for you to read that all the way through if you could. Yeah. I just want you to read it all the way through. Yeah, we got oh yeah. Yeah, I can, but I'm not going to. We will put it in around this podcast, though, so people can read it. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Yes. But I do want to start just with something at the end of your bio. Tim Timmins' mission is simple to help people walk with Jesus in the everyday moments of life. So after all that bio, it comes down to something as simple as that. I would love to hear where that came from.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it came down to that whole bio. Um, whatever bio that is, at some point um doesn't matter. And most of the things in those bios, most of them are I don't know. Most of them somehow talk about some gathering that we do as the church, and um, which is great. I'm glad we gather as the church so good. But I just started seeing most of our lives outside of our little gatherings or outside of our concerts or outside of our whatever. So I'm like, man, I don't know if people say that we look like Jesus. I'd say that we look a lot like kind of a religious group, but do we really look like this Jesus that people are supposed to be enthralled with and like enamored with? And I'd say, no, I don't think outside of our gatherings we look much, I'll just point at myself.

Tim's Mission to Live Like Jesus

SPEAKER_00

Uh, when somebody cuts me off on the road, my first uh initial thought, and this is after that whole bio that you didn't read that you should have that would have been so powerful, but after that whole bio, you still have a guy who somebody cuts me off. We were just racing to get here right now. Um, but after the whole bio, I I want to like look at the person that just cuts me off and go, like, I am so much better than you. That's what I want to say in my heart. Yet the heart of Jesus is inviting us into practicing his way all week long, not just in the little 80-minute gatherings that we do. So for me, I would that last line of that bio is really just remembering, my starting with me, that I just want to practice the way of Jesus versus the way of like some religious group on Sunday mornings. And as I travel the country, I think that's pretty accurate. So that that's what I care most about.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome. And so, Tim, kind of bring us up to speed for anybody that maybe doesn't know you and didn't catch that beautiful bio that Benjamin just said. You just mentioned concerts, you mentioned when you're traveling the country. What are your days kind of look like? Kind of catch us up on the many things that you're involved in right now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, after the movie um that I just had about my life, it's I just heard walking around the streets. It's just like I kind of walk around the streets just going, gosh, do you not know who I am? And nobody seems to care. That's the best part. Uh, what does my life consist of? I mean, I got three jobs. Um, the only one I really uh feed my kids on is writing songs and traveling and playing songs. And um I don't really love to call them songs. I I more call the things that I do, I write prayers. So they're the prayers that I have to pray. And whether

Balancing Faith, Life, and Ministry

SPEAKER_00

Brittany, you get to hear them or not, I'm gonna write them because this is what I get to do. It's like one of the things that is put in me, but then somehow other people get to um all over the world hear those songs and hear those prayers and pray with me, which is so awesome. So that's that's what I do. I I often, and then I'm a part-time pastor of this little church in Orange, in Orange County, um, that's where I'm from, in Nashville, in Franklin, Tennessee, uh called Journey, and which is so, so, so much fun. It's this group of people who've all done church and been, we're like varsity American Christians, but none of us want to do church anymore. And we're just like, what if we just be it with each other? What would that look like? So it has been such a refreshing thing. So I'm just a part-time nerdy something over there. And then I run a nonprofit called called 10,000 minutes, which they're 10,008 minutes in a week. And it's kind of what I was talking about a second ago. And 80 of those minutes are a church gathering, but they're 10,000 other minutes until we gather again. And I'm amazing in those 80 minutes, but get me in the 10,000 minutes, get most of us in the 10,000 minutes, and I don't know if we look like Jesus. So my aim with all the things that I do is just inviting us. Like, what if started with me? We just started thinking, how well what if we looked like Jesus? Like actually looked like him, not like American Christians, who cares about that crap, but like actually like Jesus. What could freaking happen? So that's why I got to wake up again, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, that's incredible. That's where the name 10,000 minutes came from. That's exactly what you were talking about. I love that perspective. It it really does put it into perspective to think we're 80 minutes together, 10,000 minutes apart from our quote unquote church body. What do we look like then? Which is amazing. Now, for some of the people watching or listening who are more an inner part of what we would call the True Face tribe,

Inspiration from Trueface and Curiosity in Faith

SPEAKER_01

I would love to hear about your connection to TrueFace. How did that get started? What drew you into True Face? Get give us a little bit of the origin story.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I think uh John Um and Bruce, they have inspired so many people in my life. And through the years, we have so many mutual friends. It's so bizarre, just through the years of doing things. And I think uh, yeah, so that they inspired, they're a big part of inspiring my friend Bart Millard from the band The Mercy Me. And so John Lynch was a big part of that. So we met and we do all these cruises together, and Bruce was a part of that, which has been so great. They're just such great men. What I think is so profound, I've met a lot of great men. But what I think is so profound about these two guys is they've kind of both done church, they've done Christian ministry, and I'm putting quotes around that. Um, they've kind of done the thing, but I think I think they started asking a question like, what if there's more? A long time ago, before I was asking the question, what if there's more? And so anytime I get to be around people like that that are just, hmm, I wonder if there's more to this thing than than what we know. Man, I I will jump at the chance to be with people like that. So I'm I'm a huge, huge fan of those two dudes and all that you guys are up to. It's just so so beautiful. And it's kind of a rare crew that would be open to asking questions that would be um maybe more on the curious Jesus people side of things, if you will. Um I don't know if Christians are all that curious. I think we feel like we've got everything down, Pat, and all the answers. But to be with people who are curious Jesus followers, I will jump at that chance any chance I get because my I'm I'm actually a missionary to Christians is actually my actual title. I don't say that often, but that's kind of what I do is I get to not that I have everything figured out in any way, shape, or form, but I get to um disrupt Christians and invite Christians into a bigger story. And I think uh you guys have been doing that for a long time.

SPEAKER_03

So

The Mask We Wear and Authenticity

SPEAKER_03

that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Bruce and John have inspired us too. Part of the big reason that we're sitting here is because of their work. So we agree on that. Uh I'm curious, Tim. One of the big things that we talk about a lot in True Facing the Cure and the Path Kind of what you're alluding to here is how a lot of Christians end up wearing kind of a mask and eventually ask, is there more to this? What if I took the mask off? What if there was a more authentic, honest, curious, raw way to live as a Christian? And I'm curious, what does that look like for you? Like what is that? I think all of us go on that journey many times over throughout our our walks with Jesus, but I'm just curious, what's that looked like for you to kind of learn realize that we're wearing a mask and let that come off.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I uh at the end of my book, I just wrote that I'm trying to use less words ending in ED and more words ending in ing. Like, I've learned this. I'm like, well, I don't think you've learned this. Um, I think you're learning this. You know what? I I've figured this out. I'm like, I don't, I don't know if I have. Maybe you did. That's super great if you figure this out. But I'm figuring, like, I'm in process. So as far as the mask goes, man, I'm straight up in process with that. And I I hope that someday that will not be a process in me. But there's always a part of me, even though I I think, you know, scripturally, the good news seems to be about the availability of the kingdom of God. Um, but somehow, um, well, somehow we made it about Jesus dying on a cross for our sins, and that's the whole story. But that's another podcast. Um,

Living in the Tension of Grief and Gratitude

SPEAKER_00

but when Jesus talks about the gospel, the good news, it seems to be about this availability of the his kingdom at work, and I just get to join in what he's doing. And I think what I have done for many years, and what I continue to do, and I think what many of us do is we um we prop up our own kingdom somehow. Like I want you to think that I'm awesome. I just do. Um, I I surely don't want you to think that I'm not awesome. Like, that's so silly. Um and then yet what we do is that we display parts of me. Like, I'm always trying to figure out online, like, how do I not disparage myself, but how do I be more authentically aired and flawed in front of people? And I don't fully know how to do that yet, but I want to do that. I want to be more like, yeah, I sucked at this. I saw my neighbor and I had things to say about them that I probably shouldn't have. Um I was lame to my son today. Uh, you know, like just being vulnerable with the parts of me that uh don't look like a varsity American Christian. And wherever my kingdom is, the kingdom of God is not. It's not, he's not the king of that place. Um so I I guess for me, I'm just I'm trying to figure out how do I seek first the kingdom of God and not mine, which is an all-day process. It's why I started writing this little X on my wrist about 15 years ago. Well, one of the main reasons was I woke up again today. Um, Jesus, I will join you for the rest of my day. I don't work for God anymore. I quit working for God a few years ago, 15 years ago. Um, and then the main part of writing this X was um it's just not about my kingdom. My kingdom is so silly. It's like I I polish it, I protect it.

The Journey of Writing Songs and Prayers

SPEAKER_00

Um every time I get frustrated with anybody, generally it's my kingdom that was just threatened. And gosh, it's just not worth propping up. It's not. If Jesus' kingdom is the only thing standing at the end of my day, then man, I think I've I've lived into the heart and the way of Jesus. And I hope, hopefully, on the other side of that, the world is a better place because I joined Jesus in my day and didn't prop up myself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that I mean, I I wanna I want to shift and talk about how awesome you are because there's someone playing who played you in a movie recently, and I'm like, it's hard to be humble when someone's playing you in a movie, but you you went on that run and I I didn't want to stop it or interrupt it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to be humble when the guy playing you is so good looking. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. It's Jess from Gilmore Girls. I know.

SPEAKER_00

I know. Duh.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Duh. I told my daughters, and they one of them started crying, and I'm like, babe, you can't you can't be crying about the guy playing your dad. You know, it's just not this doesn't feel right. Yeah, that was such a cool process. And uh, if you didn't know people, there's a movie called I Can Only Imagine Two that is out, and some of my journey, my wife and I's journey, gets to be played in this movie. And it's yeah, it's just you never wake up going, you know what I want? I want a movie about my life. That's what I think should happen. That's the best thing for the world, you know. Um but I think what's actually most fun about having a movie about part of my journey is that when I quit working for God 15 years ago, because I just was always like, God, you could do this with my life, you could do this, what if you did this and this and this? I was so exhausted from doing that

The Movie 'I Can Only Imagine 2' and Personal Journey

SPEAKER_00

that I just said, Jesus, I will never work for you again. I will just join you in anything that you want to open up. If you think this is best for your kingdom, then you open this door. If not, please don't let me have the things that I want. I want this and this and this. But if it's best thing, like if it literally is the best thing for your kingdom, then you open those doors. And I promise you, I will walk through any door that you open. If I'm supposed to just go work at Starbucks, I will go work at Starbucks if that's what you're opening up and inviting me into. Not that that's a bad thing. It's just, you know, you get it. Um so I think that's my favorite part is that once I quit working for them, it's been this really beautiful journey of just kind of joining them, whether I'm on an airplane joining him when somebody starts talking to me and starts sharing their whole story with me, or whether there's a movie about my life, or whether I'm in front of 20,000 people or 10. Um, hopefully I get to just be the same person joining Jesus in each of those places. So the movie's been so awesome, but it's also just like, how cool. This will, I will be, I will be a hot thing for like two years, barely. And then at the end of that, people are like, Tim Who? You know, who cares? And I think I'm at a place in my life that it's like, cool, I love it. What else do we got, Jesus? Let's go.

SPEAKER_02

That's so fun. I will tell you, Tim, I did cry watching the trailer for I Can Only Imagine Two. So I'm excited to actually get to watch it because if I mean, to be fair, I do cry easily at trailers, but I think it bodes pretty well for the movie, too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I mean it goes through some of my cancer journey. So I I was I was given five years to live 25 years ago in curable cancer stage four. There's still tumors on my liver today wearing out my heart. Um and so it kind of goes through some of my journey with Hillary and I's journey, my wife and I's journey with that, and what it looks like to hold the tension of grief and gratitude, not just like, you know what, God's good and he's gonna get me through this. And it's like, no, I know too many people who had way more faith than I do that are dead. I I I don't know how it works. And I live life is really hard. And I'm gonna be found living as though God's at work in all things. I so I'm holding the tension of these two. So that's kind of the movie is really about holding tension, holding the tension between grief and gratitude.

The Path Album and Creative Process

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I think regardless of the journey that different people are on, that speaks to so many people in so many different places of how do we hold that tension.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the ways that we've been reconnected with you, uh, and you know, knowing your long history with you know, Bruce and John and Trueface is we worked on something called the Path Album. And the Path is a book that Trueface produced um not not long ago, which is kind of like the cure. It's part part teaching, part allegory, taking you know what was aimed at the next generation through this journey of a young architect named Tal. And so what happened was somewhere, you know, and Bruce and all of his connections somewhere said, Oh, what if we created an album that went with each chapter of this book? And he had been connected with people who were talking in neuroscience about how sometimes we we can only accept things when we sing them. That you know, that's where the truth seeps in. Brittany can probably uh uh express that better than me. But you get brought into this project. So tell me how this got started for you.

SPEAKER_00

Oh gosh, I got a I got a text from Bruce and a few friends saying, Hey, you want to do this? I'm like, Well, yep. So it was about that hard. Um yeah, I mean, you guys are about really cool things. And I mean, as I said early on, I love being a part of things that mean something more than just like writing more Christian songs. I just don't care about writing more Christian songs. And

Writing Songs for the Chapters of Life

SPEAKER_00

to be real honest, I actually don't think God cares about us writing more cool Christian songs. Um, I think He wants us to put things into practice, and if we're doing that, then we can sing these songs all day long. But I think if we're just getting all lathered up in our gatherings with these songs, and yet I'm damning my enemy or I am whatever. I just don't think God cares. And this stuff will then be fine if you know we could sing these songs once we're doing this. But you when you guys uh asked me to be a part of this, I was like, great, that's like a blast to me. So let's write some songs. It means something. And um what's nice about this record too is that a lot of times when I'm at song camps, so we as songwriters in Nashville, we we have songwriter camps all the time for different projects and different um labels or different artists. And you'll have here a few concepts, and it's like, okay, you're gonna write a song about this, now write one that's like really fast and a beat about this, you know, whatever. But here are your parameters. And the only parameters for these songs were the chapter from the the path. And but it wasn't like you have to write something that hits radio. It was like write something honest and really that helps you live better and join Jesus in your in life. So I loved that prompt more than just here, write a banger, write the song that's gonna be the next like biggest thing the world was like. No, just write something really honest. So those are some of my favorite uh songwriting sessions, and this was definitely a fun one.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So the song that you uh wrote for us, Tim, on this is for chapter five, which is called The Wound. Um, and you titled it Wreckage and Rain. And so we've gotten to hear the demo of it, see the lyrics and everything, but I would love to hear from you what was it like for you getting that prompt of this is the chapter, write something for yourself. What was that like for you in the room?

SPEAKER_00

Um, okay, so I got set up with Jess Cates and Bede. Uh, and Bede talks funny. He's from the old England

Addressing Shame and Speaking Truth

SPEAKER_00

area. So, you know, anytime he says anything, it's like, yeah, it's probably the right thing, you know? Um two just really great men. And we got set up, and when I when I knew both of those guys were writing with me, I'm like, this is gonna be such a fun write because they're both terrific writers, but also really honest and vulnerable guys. So uh most great writes, in my view, we start out just talking through what's going on in life. Like, what are the hard things that we're walking through right now and uh or the good things we're walking through right now? And let's write about some of those things in the most honest way we can. So when we were given the uh the chapter, um, yeah, I think we all started sharing parts of our journeys that were really rough. And um I think I it's one of my favorite parts about songwriting, collective songwriting, is getting to learn from other people. Like I learned so much about my friends just by writing songs with them because you hear about things that happened in their lives or it is happening in their current situation that you just want to be a part of and be that person that gets to encourage them, and then we get to write a song about it that hopefully helps us then walk into this next uh stage of life with more courage.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love it. You know, the wound, the chapter is all about Tao's journey through shame. And so, you know, as you've been talking throughout this podcast, it's it's been incredible. And then Tim, there are a lot of people watching or listening who are thinking, well, you know, I you know, not me, you know, that the the shame j just is in inside of them naturally. So in all of this that you've been able to do, which I love the vulnerabilities, just the honesty,

Living in Weakness and the Kingdom of God

SPEAKER_01

what what have you seen? Or experienced with people when it comes to breaking down shame and speaking truth into those areas of wounds and hiddenness and darkness, it seems like you just have an amazing ability to get authentic. How does that authenticity authenticity match up with shame?

SPEAKER_03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I talk about this with my kids all the time. You know, we're always trying to figure out the difference between shame and um correction or guilt on something. Like, oh yep, that was that did suck. When I said that to you, son, that wasn't awesome. Um, and the way I said that was not awesome. And I'm not going to hold shame about that. I'm not terrible. Tim is not a terrible human. But Tim does dumb things. And to hold the tension between the two is really um good for me. And I'm I'm trying to figure out how to always teach my kids that that separation. Like, dude, you blew it today. Totally, totally, I get it. And there probably might be even be consequences for that. And you're awesome, dude. You're so great. Like you are so loved by me, by God, no matter what. How cool is that? That we can live in that tension. I just, yeah, I know my mom's a therapist and she talks about the good, bad split all the time. That uh as as a human, um, I can say to somebody, and at some point we're hopefully learning these in our stages, that um I blew it and I'm an awesome human. Um versus saying, I blew it, I'm the worst. Everything is terrible about me, that's shame. That's like versus

Hope, Grief, and Restoration

SPEAKER_00

I can hold the tension between I blew it and I'm awesome. And both can be true at the same time. So what I love about any time we can have these conversations, um, whether in my house or in my own life or through a book or through songs, just reminding each other that we are, we are not our um worst characteristic. We are not. I mean, it's even like uh I love the Enneagram so much. I know I'm kind of an Enneagram nerd, and I love these, the tests that we take. And yet we all know that is not who I am. That's how a lens that I might see the world through, but it's not who I am. And I think we are so prone to finding like this is who you are, is this, this, this. I blew it, this is my new identity. Um, so, anyways, I think I think shame holds us down to giving us our identity when that's not, I don't think, what God would want, those identities to be sticking, that we are, who we are, who he's created us to be, and we do dumb things. And I get for me, my journey is I'm joining him in all areas. So um I'm joining him even in the dumb things that I do. Even times I'm like, yeah, this is not thriving. This is not um fulfilling. I'm still gonna join Jesus in the midst of those places. And I think if I can see Jesus as him going, oh, I love you, it's like a dad going, I love you so much. And I I'm not just trying to like go, man, don't do that, don't do this. But it's like I see what's gonna be fruitful in your life and not, and you can choose that path if you want. Um, and we'll have to just walk through the consequences together, but you are loved no matter what. That's that's how I see the difference, maybe. I don't know if I answered that one bit, but absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Tim, I love that. That actually it reminds me of uh lyric that we were talking about that we love in the song that you wrote that was, I just need someone who sees my worst and isn't afraid. And I feel like that's a lot of what you were saying of like, what would that be like to actually imagine Jesus greeting us that way, seeing our worst and not moving, actually being delighted by us still.

Living as Loved and Authenticity

SPEAKER_02

That is just a such a new concept for so many of us to try to imagine him now.

SPEAKER_00

And what if it's true?

SPEAKER_02

What if it's true?

SPEAKER_00

I I I mean I know that sounds so asinine and stupid, but like I kind of keep gosh. I've just been I've I've I've studied too much and I'm I'm know too much, which kind of sucks because I wish I didn't. I wish there was a place I could just kind of go to be back to the original, like, oh, what if it's actually true? Not just like thinking my way through this theologically, um mining through and like dissecting things, but just what if Jesus is actually real? Like, not Christian real, but like actually legit real? And what if he actually saw us in that light? I mean, that's crazy. Like, how different would your day be? How different would my day be, my kids' day be, if we lived as though we were loved no matter what? Like, period. And I do stupid things, and he's like, oh, I love you like crazy. That sucks. I totally get it. High five. I mean, if we lived as though that were true, our days would be so different. And our trying to gain um credibility with other people would be like, oh, I don't really need it from you guys. I got plenty. Like, God's totally into me, and I'm good. Like, man, if it was actually true and we lived like it was actually true, game changer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, uh I I love it. I mean, you could I could I could listen to you preach all day long. Uh you probably don't use the word preach because you know that sounds too professional Christian, but I love it. Yeah, yeah. And we're talking we're talking about this, the vertical aspect of this, which is what Britney just brought up about, you know, what what if? What if all the stuff that y'all just talked about? However, then when it starts playing out

Horizontal and Vertical Living in Faith

SPEAKER_01

horizontally in our relationships, there's another line near the the top. Well, this could probably go in relationships or with God. The weight of all the wounds I hide, I thought they'd make me stronger, but I'm weaker. So even as I read that, I'm like, I don't know if you meant vertically or horizontally or both. But if it is true, well, well, it's hard for us to experience that because we we hide so much and we just pretend like we put it together and we're stronger. It seems like the the basis of your entire y'all's church gathering even came out of like, no, we're not gonna be those types of people. How did you shift that paradigm in your in your life and in the lives of people around you?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh I'd say I'm shifting um in process of that.

SPEAKER_00

Um, no, no, you're great. It it just I I I'm that's more for me than it is for you when I say things like that. Um yeah, I I mean it it's like when we talk about um strong I'm strong in my weakness, you know, like we we say these awesome scriptural theological ideas. I just don't really believe it. It I'll just in a full full transparency. I don't know if and I believe it mentally. It's like I believe Jesus died for my sins and all that stuff mentally, like in a mental ascent to this. But if you look at my practice in my life, you'd go, if you're like an alien looking in on my life, you'd go, oh, I I don't actually think he believes that. Like,

The Power of Going First and Vulnerability

SPEAKER_00

and we know the word to believe means to be found living as though something is true. It's not like a mental assent to something. It's like, am I found living as though something is true? I mean, Jesus rarely words uses the word believe. Christians use it like candy, but Jesus didn't. Um, he I only I think in the book of John did he use it very rarely. Uh, but when he did, it was in the context of like witness. But um to believe means to be found living as so though something is true. And I think with this idea of weakness, I know it conceptually, but living it is really different. Um we get little, I get little glimpses of it. I get little glimpses of how my weakness um is made strong in the economy of the kingdom of God. Um, I get that when I'm on my walks. I go on walks with guys most mornings. Um I I just don't have enough money for breakfast with dudes all the time. And I um have just chosen I'm gonna walk with guys. And that sounds very Christian. Like, you know what, we're gonna we're you want to walk with them? I'll walk with you. Um, but it's like a literal go on a walk. But when I end up sharing something that is not awesome about me, the vulnerability that brings in that on that walk is so profound. I mean, we know it every time, anytime anybody, you know, we have these um at the end of our gatherings. So I'm so ADD right now. I'm on vacation, so we're doing great. Um at the end of our gatherings, we have 15 minutes of just QR, we call it question and response at the end of each message, just where the room can ask, like, okay, I get it, but that doesn't really make sense. Or I'm struggling with this. It's just so powerful. When somebody shares something, the whole room just like all of a sudden, like

The Gift of Authenticity and Community

SPEAKER_00

becomes I don't know, like ready to share their own stuff. It's like, oh, you're human, I'm human. We're trying to have figure out how to be more human, like Jesus created us to be. Um, anyways, I I just I love that concept of of we're stronger in our weakness, yet I don't know if I fully get it yet. I'm still in process of what that truly looks like. Again, theologically, I can give you scriptures and we can like talk about it and really, you know, I could say, hey, you guys, in your weakness, God'll make you strong. Well, all the things. But living it is a whole different ball game. So I'm just in process with people.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. When it sounds like you, we often call it the gift of going first, Tim. Of like you often give the gift of going first. Like you'll offer something. Somebody else is like, oh, okay, maybe I can join them in this. And that's such a powerful gift that I think we forget about. We sometimes think, why are my conversations so shallow or that interaction? Maybe give the gift of going first. You offer something and see if they can meet you. And that sounds like a lot of what you like to do.

SPEAKER_00

I love that so much. What a great encouragement. I I often hear people uh just because I'm I travel and I'm also, you know, pastor and get the hang of people and join people in their stuff. But I do hear a lot of people going, I'm so lonely, which man, we're all lonely in some different ways. But um, what I love about that is like, no, let's let's go first. Let's just be the first people to share things with people. And if it doesn't, if it's not received well, it's like, okay, that may not be the best place, and they may not reciprocate this, but you will find people that do. And maybe those are your people. But I hear a lot of people kind of complaining is like, I'm so lonely, nobody cares.

Addressing Pain, Grief, and Hope

SPEAKER_00

And it's like, and also, what if we were the people that go first and we had the courage and the guts to do that? So I love that concept. Stolen, consider it stolen.

SPEAKER_02

Gifted. We'll give you the gift of the gift of going first.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Another phrase Britney uses that you can steal, Tim, is she talks about somebody's got to be first on the beach, which is a Normandy reference, which is like, I'm gonna be vulnerable and I might get shot in them. Uh so she uses that phrase as well. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

That's Bruce's. That's not mine. I stole it from Bruce, but then you can steal it from me.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Again, I think I've said this on a previous podcast that I thought it was a very nice, calm reference.

SPEAKER_00

Bruce, I no, I think it's yours. I think Bruce, Bruce, probably took it from you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's what happens. That's usually what happens. All right. I want to go one more question um from the lyrics of this song, and then we'll we'll start landing the plane on this uh amazing podcast. You said this time won't heal all wounds. And we've said it, we've all said it. There are people watching that they've said it, it's just something like that's said all the time, but that's not true. It's just not, it's just one of those things that's not true. You chose to address it or y'all, as you guys were working on this song together. Why? Why did you say that in this song, Tim?

SPEAKER_00

I don't I don't remember when um when that came up in the writing session. I just know that I believe that just through experience and watching my own story and watching other people. There are scars on my body from cancer that are there, that time is not healing. Um there are I I

The Tension of Life's Hardships and God's Goodness

SPEAKER_00

think in the Christian community, one of the things that we're really um good slash bad at um is wallpapering over pain and wallpapering over um grief. And I it's it's I mean, it's the amount of cliches and ridiculous things that have been said to me. And anybody who's listening right now, uh you've been if you've gone through something really hard, the amount of things that have been said, whether you lost a loved one or cancer like me or or both, and somebody just gives you some dumb, I've got other words for it, but I'll keep it clean, um, dumb line about, you know what, God needed another fisherman, you know, just like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. It's just like these little um placating darts that we give people, hopefully, like, you know what, this'll this will really help this guy. Or the things people say about cancer with me, it's just like so sad. As if we think uh we're gonna push right through this and you know what? Uh it's the um I know what people are saying. I realize the scripture that people are using and and the concept of but God. But I don't know if I love that. I know, but but God's at work and things. Um but I what I I'll I'll say this. People say all the time, life is hard, but God's good. And I would rather us use the word and there. I think the butt kind of takes out the sting of pain. It's trying to, but I don't think it's supposed to. I think life's hard and God's at work in all things. Like to hold again, these tension of these two things is to me really important. Life is hard and God is

Hope as Defiant Confidence in Restoration

SPEAKER_00

good. How do these two work? And they can work together. And for me, the but I think life's hard, but God's good just goes, you know what, don't worry about the hard part. We'll get through this. Time will heal all wounds. I'm like, I don't think so. It's just not how it works. Now, God's at work in all things, but um life's just hard. Or gotta work, God works in all things, and life is hard. So holding that tension, I think, is really important. So that lyric, I think, may have been an homage to something that I'm always talking about in my book or different places about uh grief and gratitude.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, it makes me think, Tim, of uh just recently was at a workshop with Dan Alander and he was defining hope as defiant confidence that all things will be restored in the end. Not it's gonna be okay, not optimism. We're like, it probably won't be okay. We don't know. We can have defiant confidence that in the end, all things will be restored. And that is a different, grittier kind of hope than just optimism.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, I I I love that. I I've been I did a whole word study on the word hope. And even in the song Even If that I wrote that kind of the movie's about um that I got to write with friends, uh there's the idea of hope in there. And I was going through biblical hope. And most of what I saw hope was was hope was, I hope God's gonna heal me from my cancer. Um, I hope God does X, Y, or Z. And biblical hope seems to be so much more rooted in just like God is our hope, period. So just like what Dan Allen's saying, it's like I'm hope my hope is actually in that he's restoring all things and he knows more and he's at work at all these things. And that's where my hope lies, not in the outcome of the thing. So I love that so much. Dan Allen is also a huge hero, and I love that man.

SPEAKER_03

So good. Yeah. Big fan.

SPEAKER_01

All right, Tim, we're we're so grateful. We've mentioned all kinds of stuff out there: the upcoming Path album, the movie, uh, your podcast, the 10,000 minutes um ministry that you run. I mean, in any way you want people to keep up with you, follow along,

Tim's Book 'Waking Up Again' and Future Projects

SPEAKER_01

see see the good-looking actor who plays you in a movie, which is awesome. Anywhere you want people to journey along with you.

SPEAKER_02

Or look for your book that you just mentioned.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Uh my wife and I wrote a book called Uh Waking Up Again. And I think my gift of writing this X my wrist and us just intentionally trying to figure out how do we join Jesus every day. Like, what would happen if Jesus people actually joined him every day? Like, what could happen in our world? Forget your politics, all the other things, like that stuff aside, what could happen if we just joined him and we woke up more intentionally? So, yeah, if you guys want to get that book, it's out. And I it's I love hearing stories back from people after reading that. Um yeah, I'm putting out a bunch of new music, a bunch of stuff that's hopefully really encouraging and inviting us to join Jesus in the midst of hard things and beautiful things. So, and then find me on, I don't know, Instagram, Facebook. I love talking to people on there. I love hearing journeys on there. And I say a bunch of things. Some are dumb, some are helpful.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I love it. You guys make sure you check Tim out in all those different avenues. And again, thank you for taking time today, wherever you're at, to journey with us in this podcast. We'll give you more information about the Path album as it comes to completion and we release it. So, Tim, thank you. Brittany, thank you, and we'll see you guys at the next podcast.

unknown

Bye.

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Robby Angle

Host