Episode 173: Fran and Edward Muncey, Part 3

We wrap up our conversation with Fran and Edward Muncy by tracing how a tight-budget team kept winning, how the crew culture stayed joyful under pressure, and why Chip Hanauer set the tone in the pits and on the water. We also correct a few historical details and leave with a clear picture of what hydroplane racing needs next to grow. 

Transcript

Chip Hanauer And Low Budget Wins

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Relax and welcome first to tail talk. Hello listeners and welcome back to the podcast. Today is March 17th, 2026, and this is episode 173, part three, and the conclusion of my interview with Fran and Edward Munce. Now again, I know I've told you this before. It was a great afternoon I had down in San Diego talking with both Fran and Edward Muncie. We're talking all about hydroplane racing and their influence on the sport, their father and husband's influence on the sport, and just some great stories along the way. We're gonna jump back into that interview as we continue where we left off with our last episode. And again, if you haven't listened to part one or part two, please check the bio below and go back and listen to part one and two before entering into part three today. Now, Edward, he's a busy man and he's got a lot of things on his plate. So unfortunately, he had to leave the interview a little early so he could take care of things with his day job. Edward leaves the episode around the 14-minute mark, but we continue with myself and Fran talking more about her years as an owner and time in the sport. Now I'll mention as I went back and edited this interview, I did make some mistakes on my end. So there will be some corrections at the after the interview, and I'll let you know some facts that I had wrong. I know I don't do it too often, but I want to make sure I get those facts right for you because I can just imagine yourself listening to the podcast on your computer, phone, tablet, whatever device it is, and screaming into it as I get some facts wrong. So I apologize before we get started, but I'll correct myself after the interview in this episode. So without further ado, let's get back in to part three and my conclusion of my interview with Fran and Edward Mudzi. It's fun to hear, like there's just so many fun memories on this. Uh and everyone to talk to, it seems like it's a family sport. And I'm glad to hear it was then as well back then.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Um, but in working with Chip, you decided to get him, you wanted him as your driver and had a lot of success. But do you have any other just Chip stories that you can share? Any memories with Chip? Maybe Edward has a good memory.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Well, he always said, if I can win the gold cup, then I can retire. So I was really worried that after we won that first gold cup in Detroit, that he was gonna quit. But uh thank goodness he didn't.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

He kept going. He he persevered. And there were where it had a lower budget, much smaller budget compared to the other teams. And with that comes different circumstances that are it can be tougher for the team to go through. But they all, I think, persevered because of the not just Chip, the crew members too, to say, you know what? Franz put in 110% of herself to do this, and they kept doing it too. But you could see this is hard. Uh you look at the other Budweiser team had it looked pretty nice. They had time to wash down their boat and armor all the tires, and our guys are still we're all they're all working. And it's so their different things come with bigger budgets. And it's I think they all kept working at it, and Chip was he was also the one he's the leader, and he kept we gotta keep doing this. We're we're in the right place, and I think you you could speak better to this. I should let you talk about this. What what was it like going through those years having a lower budget, lesser budget than the other teams?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Well, it was hard, so we have to be smarter. Uh and then when I'd I'd go up to you he was living in San Diego in our house, and I would go up there for a few weeks and I'd go pick up parts or uh clean the shop every day, but I was just there 18 hours a day. However, or when it when they were gonna go home, I'd say, okay, tell me what I can do while you're gone. Can I arrange something? Bring bring some supplies out. Um so I mean I was willing to do anything to win. And so was ship. Ship would come out to the shop too and see what he could do. But it's always motivating the crew to keep them working. They were great, but they you know, they might maybe they wanted to eat once in a while.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

No, no, they can't.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

That's the other thing, would have barbecues and and just to keep everyone there together. Yeah, but it was a family.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

I think looking back, I I'm not sure if this is still true, but when we talk to them, they they each of them say that that was the most fun time of their life, and which they still talk about and they're still super close. And uh, we've lost actually a lot of our teammates uh over the over the years, unfortunately. But through those years when they're all alive, they all would say that was the most memorable part of my life of hydroplane racing.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I was like their mother.

unknown 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And I'd say the chip. I'm too young to be your mother.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Do you think part of it, Mom, is they're they were part of something where they were also you guys were all beating Budweiser and the Winston team, uh that the Woomers team that had far more money than you did. Oh, yeah. You just kept beating them.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah, that's gotta give you some sort of pride, right? I mean, you weren't winning because of money, like you like you're saying, Edward is that was no money. You found other ways to win.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah. Just keep going to you, it just whatever it took to win.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah. There's something special about that.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

And it's it's yeah, it wasn't for money.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah. And it takes a lot of different components to win and be a successful team, not just once, but repeatedly. And I think Chip was one of those key components who's such a great driver and human being.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And human being, yes. In fact, I'd say that Bill Muncy and Chip Hand are the two most moral uh drivers and the or people associated with the sport. So moral, both of them.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

That's a great way to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah. Yeah, everything I look back on for the years and watched in person, I feel like they had the utmost respect for other drivers as well, and they would they'd push you to limits, right? They would give you that space, but they wouldn't give you more. They would be respectful in that in that way.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Bill always said, you never say anything, put down another driver, because then if you win, what have you done? You've beat someone that you've already called a loser or made fun of. But so he never did that. He always built everyone up, saying they were the fantastic driver. That he was gonna have a hard time beating them.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

He was also, he was also, Chip was also like a big brother, uh at least for me, to make me a family, but he was a big from the day one when I arrived there. And uh what was the first race of the year after school got out, I think it was Detroit, and took it on as took it upon himself to be a big brother. Yeah, and for all those years and to this day, I think he still feels like it. He's a big brother to me, and he is. Yeah. And he was so caring and endearing and steering me in the right direction. He could he could only do so much though. You have the jokes that come along with being with a whole bunch of guys in the in the summer, summertime, and all the jokes that they share with you that Chip may not know that they share these really dirty jokes that then he carry out, and I share them with my buddies when I get home in the fall with my my friends, and I get sent to the principal multiple times. So Chip would never dare say a joke like that to me. Uh, but it was the funniest thing to hear it afterwards. Oh my gosh, can't believe you told that joke to Edward. I'm sure there's some they many they didn't tell me uh back in the day, but that was kind of the fun part. He was uh a very a big brother and was also an athlete. That was another piece of it. I know Dean Chenworth was a great, great runner, phenomenal runner at the time, but Chip was also an athlete at the time. He was staying in shape, working out quite a bit for I think hydroplane racers at the time, which I don't think any of them had were really done didn't do much. Maybe Milner Urban, but uh I think Chip was also in that aspect was uh ahead of his time for hydroplane racing, just staying in constant shape, staying focused with as part of his job.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah, I mean look at the sport now compared to then. I feel like it's such that you needed such more physical strength back in the day, as you were talking about how their drivers weren't strapped in, open cockpit, yeah, lots of room. So you you really had to be strong to stay in the cockpit.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

And that's why Bill said a girl couldn't do it, a female could not drive a hydroplane. But then we had one. Brenda Jones. Brenda Jones.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, well, and she was probably the strongest woman on earth. How many sit-ups did she do in a row? Guinness booking world's records. That's right. Yeah. Like 15,000 sit ups. Something crazy. Yeah. Okay, well, he was right. Yeah. Strongest woman. Yeah. The one out of a population. But she was she was extra special.

Edward On Losing Bill Muncy

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah. Well, I I know you're on a short time frame, Edward, before you go. Is there any stories that you want to share about your your time in the sport? Um, what you witnessed?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Well, uh, you know, I was so lucky to grow up with I had a such a great father and obviously died when I was young, but it was at that age where it didn't really hit me as hard as probably when you're older and you comprehend what really just happened. You're still growing, and you have somebody like a mom who steps in who is so dynamic like she is, so such a strong woman and also a strong sister at the time. And my brother had just moved out, my brother Roger. He he had just moved out, and he came back into my life more so later, but uh had a whole bunch of different men who were dad's friends uh stepped in. And it was I was really fortunate to have that dynamic to hopefully turn out to be a good person and and and be do well in what I've done in life. But because of all of them, but starting with with mom, she was always very uh firm and made sure was to make sure I try to have fun, whatever I'm doing, and that also taught me that Edward, this isn't time for you to talk, you know, when we're sponsors and things like that. But then also, Edward, say something, Edward, make make sure you're say hello to everybody, make sure you shake their hands. These are sponsors, so don't just sit there.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Because he did, you know, because he was young and everything. Everyone wanted to talk to Bill Muncie's son, and he would just stand there, you know. Well, which he should have been. You were shy.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, you know, you get past that after a while, you think, okay, you have to say hello to the So I was really lucky to have Mom in my life after losing my father at that age. She was such a great woman to do that. And then you had Rick Johnson. Rick Johnson and Big John Daly and uh a whole bunch of people that were just induced certain times. Theater Chip was during the summertime was was was just such uh so lucky to have them on in the team. Yeah, Tim Tim Ramsey and Glenn Davis back in the day was oh so wonderful in so many ways, and the entire team. John Walters was another one. Yes. Uh they're all such good people. So we we I think we're super fortunate. We were in hydroplane racing at such a golden age uh for hydroplane racing, but I was happy about hydroplane racing now, where it is, we see it's on a positive trajectory, and uh that what they saw in Seattle and we what I hear they're investing in the sport. They have great talent. I met Tanner Faust yesterday, who's just fantastic, great color commentator and a racer on his own, car racer. But he has a massive following and tremendous respect in the in the racing world. That's great. So I think they're doing all the little things like that, they're adding up to really they're putting in a massive investment in this. So I'm super excited about hydroplane racing and where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, they've they've really invested a lot into the sport lately, and their their feed coverage online is improved, the drone footage has improved. Um, so yeah, I'm like you, I'm I'm encouraged where where the sport's going. But I really love to hear back in the day when when you're around this the sport and more closely how family driven it was and how people were supportive in that time. Um, because I think without that human nature and that the the qualities of people around you, it wouldn't be the same. Even if you won all the races like like you did, it just wouldn't be the same, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

No. And what the sport needs now is big sponsors, which we were lucky enough to have.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Budweiser out of Span lines.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Well, it was a great family atmosphere. I mean, those things you talked about, the like the afterwards, the banquets we used to talk about as families. It was something to look forward to and celebrate. And I don't I don't even know if they exist anymore. Those are all certain elements that at that time were it seemed amazing, but she's right, it's right now the most important thing. Or the family aspect is important because it's you bring your kids down. It's neat to see all the motorhomes that are lined up. Uh last year they had a really great year here in San Diego. It was one of the biggest years they've had in many years, and I think they're on track to do the same thing. And their their gauges, how many people are along Fiesta Island, they're going all the way down the beach, and then both sides on Crown Point, and they're super excited about it. So it that's I think not just for H1, but also for the race sites themselves. I get get the impression that they're on the upswing too, and so it's good, it's it's super good to see that.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, I was I was on Fiesta Island this morning and I was impressed with it seemed like a mile long, it was just full of RVs there. Um so super fun to see.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Trying to think of any other stories that stand out. There's there are so many. We always say the same stories over and over again that we all still laugh about, but I think if you dig into with her some more on just the things, some of the races, maybe the toughest races that you're surprised you won, maybe that you guys were. There's some so many times where it seemed like things were just stacked against us. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be this this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

But we never had an accident.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Chip was never hurt and never flipped nothing. And and we would just always keep stay positive and watch. I what I would do is just have Jesus what protect him all the way around and just watch every second. And he was always safe. Yeah. But he's also because of his talent.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

The salt water was tough. Oh, sorry, go ahead, don't lose your time.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I was gonna say that then he went to work for Budweiser and and he did some roles and it hurt himself. He was in the hospital, and that was you and I, and someone we we went to see him. The Budweiser team didn't go see him.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yes, yeah, I think that was in '95 or so that he had a really bad wreck here.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Dropped off in the hospital, and the Budweiser team went up to Seattle and left up, left him. And I think Chip's quote was like they didn't even bring his shoes or something like that to the to the hospital. But but you you two visited him.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

We picked him up. We picked up his stuff.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yeah.

Solving Saltwater Turbine Problems

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, that's right. Forgot about that. No, there was gonna say saltwater was a tough time for for the team. Oh, that the turbines. Right, yeah. That was a that's where we probably struggled at our point where we think, are we gonna win any more races? This is really difficult. Everybody was struggling at that at that time, but you still managed to find your the most important wins.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

And you know what it was? Atlas Fan Lions International, uh Mr. Rogers, his son went to work at Boeing, and he called up Ship and I and said, I figured out what you need to do to keep the salt water out of the engine.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

Really?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

And so that was all. I don't remember his first name. Kelly Rogers' son.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yes, son. He was my time.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, head of uh Atlas International. But what a small world.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yeah, it's funny how everything kind of works together. He was an aerodynamist, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

I think that's what he went to school for.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

For aerodynamics?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

And then and that's what he saw, pictures, a video, or something.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

He saw something that caught his eye, what the Budweiser was doing. And he told us, and we did it, and we won.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and he conquered the saltwater here in 87 with the Gold Cup. Being here in San Diego, your hometown, was that more special to win that here?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Oh, yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

It was.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, that was a that's right. What year was it?

SPEAKER_00 16:17

We won seven straight gold cups on different how uh engines, uh, different race courses. That that's what's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah. Yeah, because you won in Tri-Cities, you won here in San Diego, you won in Detroit, one in Evansville.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

I believe those were all the four race sites you want to.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Is this the only saltwater course left? I think it is.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Uh currently on the schedule, correct. Yeah. It's the only one saltwater course.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Bill said it was the fastest because it's at sea level, and there's the the um the water dissipates on the shore and salt water.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Mm-hmm. Yeah, the boat's a little bit more buoyant.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, it's a fast track out there.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah.

The First Gold Cup In Detroit

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah, so you won't 87 here. I know that was meaningful. Your hometown. Was that the most meaningful gold cup you won, or would it be the first?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

The first one.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Can you tell me a little bit more about when you got in Detroit?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Um, we finally got the boat because Lucera was taking quite a while to fix it. Crew was getting real upset. So uh the first race was Miami. The crew drove it all just all night and day. They didn't, and so we had, so the race day we had to qualify. Oh, no, that was well, this is Miami that season.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

It is.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

We had to test, qualify, uh, everything that that very first day. So it didn't do well. And then the next race we didn't do very well. Then we took it to the Atlas agent in Detroit, and he let us let them work on it. Took the did some things to the sponsons, and uh, and that was our first gold cup. And it didn't seem possible that we could win. It was all they had to wait so long for the boat and then to try to get it to run. And so that was amazing. Yeah. The first race. So much emotion.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Oh, yeah, my gosh, yeah. I know it was the odds were seen stacked up against you, right? Brand new boat, Chip's a new driver for you and a new team. Um, the second race of the season was coming off Miami, which wasn't go as well as you'd hoped for. Uh, but you won. And and Chip was flying the boat the whole time. It was just dancing on the water. Yeah. What were your nerves like seeing him?

SPEAKER_00 18:33

I just couldn't believe it. I mean, I thought for sure it was gonna fly.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

But he kept it under control. That was so exciting. Because it was a Budweiser, and Chip was on the was on the inside, and then and it it was just so exciting because he was just dancing on the water the whole time. Couldn't believe it. Oh, it was so scary.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yes, yeah, but but you but you won that, and then it was a match of season because you won Seattle, you won the world championships that year, won the Hyde Point Championship in '82. It's all in your first season.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

You accomplished all of this. So that had to have been something special for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yes, it was the first season.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

And getting to know everyone, getting to know the crew members better.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

And everyone working so hard.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I just want to go back to OH Frisbee because I know you've had a special relationship with him, and it was hard in '84, um, his passing, right? Because he passed, and uh, with his passing, the Atlas Van Lines dropped their sponsorship. And what was that transition like? How were you able to manage that?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

It wasn't because of his passing.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

This uh person, I can't even remember his name, I tried to block it out. Um, he was from Canada, and he do you call it a white knight? He was trying to get an he what he didn't want the vote there anymore. It was actually he was trying to sell Atlas van lines. So he found a white knight investors and they bought it, so they um then it was no more, and everyone was so upset at Atlas. And O. H. Frisbee went up to Wisconsin and talked to um Miller Brewing Company and said, I have the finest boat, the finest crew, and you know how we've been winning. And so I want to recommend them for you to sponsor them. Oh so that's how we got Miller Brewing Company. Oh, interesting, I didn't know that. It was all OH Frisbee.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Okay. I had my facts wrong then. I apologize. Yeah. What quite so interesting that he helped you.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Oh, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah. So that shows you right his character right there. I mean, he he deeply cared about you and wanted you to continue to succeed in in Bill's memory and and for your own program as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yes. And then he uh when Bill was alive, he would take him to Durrow, D-U-R-O, and buy him expensive suits. He wanted him to look really OH was a very sharp dresser. And he did that with Bill, took him there, buy him some suits every year, new suits, like$500 suits, and that's something we would never have bought one. And then he did the same thing for Chip. It's like uh he he was just so wonderful. And then what uh some time someplace we I think we got a third in a race. Seems like it was New York. Okay, uh, and uh Bob Miller, who was president, he was kind of thinking, Well, that's not very good getting a third today. And oh H first we said, Bob, we're a uh a fourth fourth class uh moving company, number four, and and third is is much better. Than we're doing. So uh he just he loved the team.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah. Good perspective on it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, another name you've mentioned several times, Jim Lacero. Uh, I just want to ask real quick on Jim, because he was very talented in his own rights. But how crucial was your success of the team in the beginning years was it with having Jim there?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Uh it was just real hard on the on the crew. Um because he couldn't, I don't know what it was, something in his mental composition. He couldn't didn't want to win unless he overcame something. So in the on race day mornings, well, every morning, the crew would go early to check everything, the skid fin, because he would put used parts or things that were questionable. So they would replace them and never let him know. Or the propellers, you know, not having it um, whatever that, whatever they do to them to make sure they're strong, no cracks.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Oh yeah, yeah, check them out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

So that's what the crew was having to do. So finally it was just got so bad that um that I came up from Washington with uh a detective, just for like for protection or whatever, went to the shop, uh, hired Pinkerton people, and Chip had uh a bouncer from for the rock bands in Seattle.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

To all be there to tell Jim that he needed to go.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And so that was really hard to do.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

But he just was, it was just uh unbearable what he was doing with the crew. They were just so depressed all the time. It was they had to work around him, you know. Um so that was at the hardest part.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah, it's always hard to s let someone go, right? Yeah. I know Jim had a huge influence over the team to start off with, building the boats, but it was time to part ways.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

But there was it's just this personality thing. I don't know uh why it ha why it happened, but and then Chip especially, could she just couldn't take it anymore?

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

So I didn't want to lose Chip or the crew.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Right, yeah. Like I said, there's so many components to make it happen. Yes, yeah, you gotta make sure it's on a positive note.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Well, Dave Harensberger, so Chip and I went to see Dave Dave Haronsburger and tell him what we were about ready to do, and he took completely agreed. He just said that he that's why he sold it. He couldn't work with Jim anymore.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's it's unfortunate, but it's the truth, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, fast forward a couple years, your last year, 1988, Bill Bennett kind of joined you with a sponsor and ran a two-boat team. You had two boats, yes, and you ran uh one boat under the Circus Circus banner. Yeah. Other boat under Miller High Life. Um still under the Miller banner, but different colors that year.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

It was a year of mixed success. Still won your Gold Cup. Oh, okay. Undefeated, like we said, right? Yeah. But didn't have as many wins, I think, as you were accustomed to accustomed to back then. Right. Still both were performing well, but not well enough.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Not well enough.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

How hard was that year for you?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

It was hard running the two teams. But I needed to do that for Bill Bennett because he was he'd been such a help. And you know, for information and for uh just that oh, I know the main thing. Is so that year after I let Jim go, then he filed something to to so that the boat could not race in any of the race courses. He put an injunction on the boat. Oh I I should back up a little.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Um I gave Jim, that was how he just decided he would build a boat. I gave him 49% of Bill Muncie Industries if he would build a boat and be the crew chief. So that's how that happened. In other words, anything to win to be. Um so that's why it was so hard for uh to let him go. So he put an injunction at every race site so the boat couldn't race. And so Bill Bennett stepped in and had his attorneys fight every do that every every race.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I'd forgotten about that. It was this that was awful.

1988 Two Boats And Legal Fights

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yeah. Did that did that lead to you exiting the sport then? Because 88 was your last year. I'm always I was curious why why after 88 that you left.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Because uh well Bennett loved it. He wanted to keep racing. I I guess I just maybe I was burned out.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah.

unknown 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And that was it. I loved all the crew members and ship, and I but I just didn't I wanted anything to win. And Bill Bennett had so much money. So that's what I knew they could win.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Uh-huh. With with Bill Bennett's money and and his expertise and his interest. He loved it.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Well, yeah, I'm sure anything to win. I mean, running a professional sports team after so long, it gets time we probably get burnt out with it. But you saw the writing that your friend Bill Bennett could lead this team and take a new direction and continue to win.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

And beat Bernie.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

And beat Bernie. Was it always uh joy?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Always wanted to beat Bernie. Always wanted to beat Bernie. Because it was fun watching his big bus do a wheelie going out of the pits when he lost.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I do remember some uh awards ceremonies where the Bernie didn't win and his bus would would be leaving as we're as we're winning in the awards ceremonies for things to happen. Yeah. And he waved to everyone goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

And he was a wonderful person. He did a lot to help the sport too. He brought down different um rich men and talked them into building a boat. It didn't last much very long because Bernie could always beat them.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

But but he did try.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

He kept bringing them in.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

And Augie Bush was his best friend all those years.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Right, right, yeah. Yeah, they were very close.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

And he always said to me, Will you stop paying Chip so much money? Because now I have to do it because you know they all the drivers talk, and but whatever Chip wanted, I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Because he respected him and he wanted him to be.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

He's the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah, and I agree. I think he he definitely was the best, uh, right alongside your husband, your late husband, Darren. So you didn't have a hard time leaving the sport then because you knew it was in good hands. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yes. Oh, and then Bill Bennett told me to, I said, I'd heard that this Dave Vilwalk, he just did race limited boats, but he was so good at balancing out a boat. Better than LaSalle, better than anyone. I guess he won a lot in seven leaders. Um, and so he said, Well, can you talk to him? So he was in San Diego racing his uh class, and so I went up to him and said, Uh, would you be interested in being coochie for uh Bill Bennett?

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

And the boat in the Circus Circus. And he was, and so he went over and talked to him, and he was a great, he just knew much better than Lasero how to set up a boat.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah, he did. Yeah, he he totally understood it and he still understands it.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

So I didn't know you had an involvement in getting him into the unlimited ranks. Yeah. How fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

But that was under Bill Bennett's direction.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

But there's still, because then everyone would have gone, you know, Chip Hanauer and the whole crew, but to have Dip Dave Vilwalk, that was the key. And I think they didn't they win a lot? I'm just sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, I mean, uh Sir, yeah, Chip with Circus, the team, they won uh World Championship, they won uh many races together. Yeah, they they were at the peak uh with Bennett there as well. Yeah, they had a great great run. Yeah, he won the the championship, and I think he from what I understand, I think he won what he wanted to and was ready to move on for the sport, and he sold it his team to Womers.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah and got out of the sport. So that's right.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Well, with your time in the sport as an owner, with your time with Bill, what what do you really look fondly back on? What are you most proud of that you did for the sport?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Winning. Setting records and winning. That was just all that that I thought of was whatever it took to win. A lot of the t-shirt money went into the, you know, into the uh program. Just somehow managed to, everything would always come together. And that was uh it's always thinking positive, never letting any bad thoughts in. And especially in the pit area, because everyone comes up to you and they say, Oh, hi, my name is Mary, and and I my uncle raced a hydroplane and just to be nice to everyone and just everything to be positive. Yeah. I I always felt that was there's just something about that uh that keeps you nothing bad will happen.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fun, fun. Well, you definitely won. You were you're a champion. And you're the only owner in the sport that um is undefeated in the gold cup.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Yeah.

What Hydroplanes Need Next

SPEAKER_02 32:57

So uh but looking at the sport now, I know Edward talked about how the sport's in an uptick. Um I'm just curious, what what are your thoughts on the sport and where it's going?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

And if Bill was still here, he would be going to these corporations and talking them into getting involved in the sport and showing them uh what a great advertising or marketing uh uh opportunity it is. And it is traveling all over the country with the the boats on the f freeways and and but you need someone like a Bill Muncie. Uh then that's all he cared about. He that's what he would say. He cared more about building the sport up because he loved the sport so much than him winning. Yeah. He didn't that's really what he wanted to do. So they need someone like that that'll go to corporations.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I think if you had someone like Bill who knew all of the ins and outs of marketing and the sport, and I think he had he really understood people as well. Yes. And he understood what message needed to be portrayed.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

To have the introduction to get into the offices of the owners.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Oh, and he always said that the marketing teams uh for these uh companies, they fought against it because they didn't want all the the marketing budget to go someplace else. They wanted to go to their organization.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Their company.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

So it just takes someone really it could be chip, really. Someone that their reputation precedes them, and uh, so then he's going in in on a note of strength. Because he already he's done everything, he's won everything. Right. Great speaker.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

I wonder if he'll ever do that. They need someone.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Yeah, I would love, I would love to see that. Because I think, yeah, like like like you're saying, Chip, he's knows so much about the sport and knows he knows people so well and um such a great human being that he would be a great spokesman for the sport. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your time, Fran. It's been so fun talking with you about your time in the sport. Are there any other stories that you want to share with us before you go? I know I've taken up a lot of your time.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Oh no. I'm gonna go uh pick him up and take him over the pits. Um, Ray Fadgill is the person from Seattle. His father had the boat with the Packard engines, and he did a 180 in Seattle, and the boat came down and kept going.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

He died a year later of injuries he suffered, but he he finished the heat. That was amazing. But his son, who's very fagile, moved down to San Diego. He'd worked at Boeing, and he he's the one that went to the mayor, got got all of a lot of businessmen together, they formed Mission Bay Associates, and they uh they put on their races for a couple of years until they all they loved it so much. Traveling, they spent all the money going to all the races, taking their wives, and um but he's the one that started it, and then then it didn't happen for a couple years, and then Bill and I moved down to to San Diego.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then and he had such a big part of getting this race on as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Oh yes, uh-huh. Yeah. He had Jack in the Box as a sponsor one year, and um, of course, Circus Circus, and just well, he knew everyone, so he could bring them in. He and he didn't get paid for any of that. And that's the other thing, helping other teams get sponsors. He didn't ever want any money for it.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah, yeah. And that I don't think the public knew that that he did that for the sport. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

He did that for other teams.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

I don't think they did, but in leader in recent years, I think that's kind of come out a little bit. Uh, but it's that's so fantastic to hear that he was very selfless.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yeah, and Atlas paid his way, you know. He'd fly there and they'd pay for the hotel. Wow. So oh H Frisbee wanted to build the sport also.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Yeah. Yeah, and they did.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Well, thank you so much, Fran. It's great to see you.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

It's great talking to you about the sport and all that you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

You know, you know a lot more than I do.

Host Corrections And Fact Checks

Closing Thanks And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Well, I might know a thing or two about the sport of hydrogen racing, but there's I'm nowhere close to the amount of things that Bill, Fran, and Edward Muncie have done for the sport of hydrogen racing. We're in a debt for their efforts for the sport of hydrogen racing. And without their efforts throughout the years, it wouldn't the sport wouldn't have flourished in the 70s and 80s and throughout those decades without their efforts. Now, at the beginning of the episode, I did say I made some mistakes. I don't know what I was thinking here, but uh a couple of mistakes I called myself out on. Uh, hopefully I didn't make any more, and if if I did, please let me know. But I did mention that Fran had only won in four cities when uh her time winning gold cups. Uh it is true she was undefeated as an owner uh in all of her gold cups. She had seven gold cup victories, seven in a row. No one else in the sport has ever come close to that. Um being undefeated for multiple seasons in the sport absolutely phenomenal. But she did win in five different cities. She won in Detroit in 1982, in Evansville, 1983, 1984 in Detroit cities, in Seattle in 1985, back again to Detroit in 86, and then that fifth location in San Diego in 87, and then back once again in 1988 in Evansville. I also did make another flub talking about how OS H. Frisbee passed away in '84 when the Atlas Family sponsorship went away. I don't know what I was thinking. I had all my facts wrong with that. OH Frisbee actually didn't pass away for another 20 years. He passed away September 21st, 2004, at the age of 98. There's a great article from Fred Farley after his passing that's on the Hydroplane Race Foot Museum's website. I would recommend you check that out because OH Frisbee did a lot for the sport of hydroplane racing. Not just Atlas sponsorship, brought in other sponsorships to the sport, was a huge fan and um a great advocate for the sport of hydroplane racing. So sorry, can't get them all right, got a couple wrong there, but wanted to call myself out on that. But that's all I have for this week. Hope you enjoyed my talk with Fran and Edward Muncie. Again, thank you both to them for their time. Uh really gracious for their time and very genuine and nice people. Really, really enjoyed talking with them. I've got more interviews on the hook, on the line. I've got a couple conducted, I got a couple more in the books ready to go. And um I'm excited for this season and what I can bring to you. But in the meantime, make sure you check us out online. Our website's www.risertale talk.com. We're also on social media, Facebook and Instagram. So until next time, I hope to see you at the races.