Roostertail Talk

Episode 183: David Williams and Brad Haskin, Part 1

• David Newton • Season 8 • Episode 12

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We sit down with retiring museum leader David Williams and incoming director Brad Haskins to talk about what it really takes to preserve unlimited hydroplane racing history. We dig into the long-planned torch pass, the pressure behind the scenes, and why a hands-on museum experience can hit harder than any display case. 

Don't forget that the Hydroplane and Raceboat Museum is bringing back Hydro Fever!  The event will be held Saturday, June 20th from 10am to 2pm at the Museum in Kent.  If you want to reserve a table for yourself to sell your own goods, you can contact Brad Haskins at the Hydroplane and Race Boat Museum. For more information on the museum or to reserve a table you can visit the museum's website at www.thunderboats.org or call and ask for Brad at 206-764-9453. 


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Welcome And Why This Talk Matters

SPEAKER_00

Hello, race fans, and welcome back to the podcast. Today is Tuesday, June 2nd, and this is episode 183, part one of my discussion with David Williams and Brad Haskins. Now, for over 30 years, David Williams has been the face of the Hydroplane and Racement Museum. But for those who don't know, this past winter he stepped down and retired from his current position and passed the torch on to Brad Haskins. And Brad Haskins is no stranger to the sport of unlimited hydroplane racings by any means. He has a vast knowledge of the sport. He's a historian, crewed for many different teams, and actually has quite a bit of experience with airplane racing and flying. But when you think about it, that really rounds out Brad's experience around hydroplane racing and being able to be the best director that he can be. So with this interview, I really wanted to sit down and talk with David as kind of an exit interview about his time with the museum and give Brad an entrance interview, if you will, to get to know more about where he came from, his plans. But I really wanted to hear a lot about the history of Brad and David because they are longtime friends and just have given so much to the sport of hydroplane racing. Now, this is part one of two. This will be a two-part interview, two-part episode that you'll get to enjoy. And in this episode, we're going to learn more about their both of their histories, where they came from, and what hydroplane racing has meant to them, and the hydroplane museum as well. So let's jump into that interview with David Williams and Brad Haskins.

Meeting The New Museum Director

SPEAKER_00

I'm sitting down here in the Haronsburger Library of the Hydroplane Eraseboat Museum in Kent, Washington, sitting across from Brad Haskins, our new director of the Hydroplane Eraseboat Museum. And to my left is David Williams, the former and retired director of the Hydroplane Eraseboat Museum. Is that weird to hear retired?

SPEAKER_03

Not really. And I just have to take a break here and go totally off script and say what is so cool for me is to be sitting here with you, having been such a good friend of your dad, and knowing how much this place meant to your dad. And you've seen you down here, not here, but at the old building.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

30 years ago when you would have been but I can close my eyes.

SPEAKER_01

And I hear oh, you hear Roger. Yeah. I hear your dad. Absolutely. It's comforting. It's very comforting, actually.

SPEAKER_00

I should have grown a mustache shop for this interview, I think.

SPEAKER_03

A lot, and and I'm sure Brad can echo this. A lot of what is really cool is we can restore the boats and we can recreate visuals, but we can't save the people.

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_03

And to sit here talking to you, and as Brad says, closing your eyes and hearing your dad's voice and know that you carry a lot of your dad's interest, and it just is a very cool moment. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

So let me enjoy that. Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm I'm enjoying this as well. And yeah, I would say my dad kind of rubbed his passion off on me for sure. I've been been doing the models for years and working wherever I can with hydroplanes. So glad to be down here with you both today. Good. Yeah. Um so I mean, let's get started with this. Let's talk about this. Uh big torch passing moment, I think,

How The Transition Was Planned

SPEAKER_00

happened. When was the exact date the the transition happened?

SPEAKER_01

That's that's December 31st. Yeah. But that's kind of a trick question. Because uh I worked as David's assistant at the old South Park building and back in 2003. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I can distinctly remember the morning that I walked in, and you're like, you know, we were talking at the board meeting last night, and uh we need to come up with a secession plan if something happens and we decided it's you, and I was like, um okay, okay, okay. Uh so I and and I don't think everything was ever seriously considered about that, but it was put out there.

SPEAKER_03

So it I mean, it was seriously considered. Um, and uh it's I'm not sure how interesting all of this is going to be the business end of it. But yeah, the because of my unique role and the way that I worked, the board did say we need to know what to do if you know you get hit by a truck on the way home from the museum, or you get pitched out of a hydroplane.

SPEAKER_00

I would say like maybe you you spin out and then Miss Madison on the Ohio River.

SPEAKER_03

Um we'll talk about that in the next show.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um and yeah, Brad got, you know, I met Brad. He's one of those guys I've known so long, I can't remember the day I met him, but certainly late 90s. Um I don't know when you came back from the military, but Brad's always been a feature in my memory, a feature in my life. And we shared a passion for hydros. And um Brad is a guy, even yesterday, you know, when I find a cool picture, when I find a picture of a boat I haven't seen, for 30 or 25 years at least, the first thing I do is send it to Brad and say, Have you seen this? And he comes back and said, No, or yes. So cool, where'd you get that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he has that unique combination of he's got chops in the sport. He's I never worked for Bernie Little and the Budweiser. He worked for Bernie Little and the Budweiser. And we'll get to a point, I've read the outline, where we will talk about his credentials, but he's a dedicated historian. Yeah, he is um in some ways, in some areas, he's more knowledgeable about the history than I am. Certainly in the collector community, he has much more of knowledge of the collector community than than I ever had. Um and and he's worked in in the sport, he's worked for the Budweiser, he's worked for Fred Leland, um, and he's a damn good writer, and all those things are important. So when I met Brad, it's like he's the guy. And it he has been on the radar for 25 years. Um I never really haven't shared this, but in um 12 years ago, so do the math, that would be 2013 or 14. Yeah, 13 is when I wrote it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, my wife and I wrote out our retirement plans.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And we decided in 2013 that we were retiring together on December 31st, 2025. So it took 12 years, but that was always the goal. Um, and it it the the museum needed that because um we had a board member, Doug Sutherin, who was a great guy. Um, and but he every now and then I'd irritate him, and and at one point he said, I know you're gonna work here till they carry you out feet first. And and that was the perception, but I also thought how bad that would be for the organization for something like that to happen. I needed to leave when I was healthy and when the museum was healthy, um, and when I could uh someone else could come in and have the freedom to learn, um, whether it was a month or two months, um, but you know, the freedom to learn without going, I need him pay tomorrow's rent. I mean, um, but also when they could still call me and go, hey, how do you do, or what what were you thinking? Um, I get a lot of that. Uh what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_01

Um I think that was one of the things that I had to meet before I could say yes, was that he would still be there and still be capable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um and I know the concern for you was that your identity was wrapped up. David Williams is the museum, and the museum is David Williams. And and there's a credibility gap if he steps away.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I know you wanted to distance yourself, but I needed that transition too, you know.

SPEAKER_00

And and that's healthy for the museum, right?

SPEAKER_03

But it brings up an interesting point, and I'm glad to be able to say this. I know this sounds really arrogant, and I don't mean it that way. But I've been the guy that people went to to get questions answered for 30 years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And not just historical questions, but but technical questions or financial questions. And I I do not want to hover around over Brad's shoulder and have people kind of asking him a question while they're really looking wink wink at me. So I I need to give Brad the opportunity to do stuff, um, and to be the guy, and not to be um and not to be there, but have me standing behind him, and and everyone, you know, we've had a few years for him to, you know, listen your MM. You ran Sunday, and you ran Sunday grade. I was there.

SPEAKER_01

Um But I think there was also uh all along, you know, you you've told me that um this is how I do it, but it's gonna be your show. And it's it you have the autonomy to to do it your way if you want to do it different, you know. But this is what worked.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think there's nobody that is more acquainted with the museum's shortcomings. And I say that I I always joke that I created the museum in my image and likeness, and that the things that we do are the things that I could do. Yeah, and the things that I couldn't do, we tried and we didn't succeed. But Brad has to find the things that he can do that I couldn't and do it his way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So that makes total sense.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm a phone call away, but I'm not I'm not gonna be standing behind him. And and coincidentally, um you know, I what I'm doing after the museum, one of the things is I'm I know you're husky, but I'm I'm going back to WCU to finish my degree. Oh, okay. Um my first day of class, guess what my first day of class is? May 12th. The day we're having our spring test. So it's like, uh I I would kind of like to be there, but I but at the same time, I don't need to be there. And and actually, I I don't want to skip my first day of class in 50 years. Second day shit, no problem.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03

Or shoot, no problem. But I so there will be times when I'm not there, and that's natural, and that's okay. Um, and it's good for Brad, and it's probably good for me. Um, but I don't want people to go, oh, David didn't come to spring training. Do you suppose there's a problem? Or suppose he's pissed off?

SPEAKER_01

No, it's Brad's baby. No, but I mean, you know, we this transition has probably been what, a good five years in the works, maybe longer.

SPEAKER_00

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, you've known of it for 25 years, but we sort of pulled the the the trigger on you and I before COVID, I think, was about when you came up and said, remember what we talked about? And it's coming up.

SPEAKER_03

We didn't bring it up to the board five years ago. We probably brought it up to the board two or three years ago. Yeah. But it's it's it wasn't a quick decision, it's God, I gotta get out of here. I mean, it's been a long time coming, and there is nobody that I would rather take it over.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But you know, that gave me the opportunity to shadow him.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So when we went to spring training for the last several years, I was doing this, and then I was doing this, and then I was doing this. And when we went over to MM for the last few years, I was doing this, and I was doing this, and I was doing this. And it kind of culminated in, well, what last year you said, all right, we're gonna take the squire shop over to the H1 spring testing. It's yours. Handle it. You know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, wow, okay, you did that great. All right, now when we go to MM, it's yours. Handle it. And I know you were you were worried that you that you were gonna be sitting in the chair in the shade and everybody was gonna be coming to you instead of coming to me. And I think you probably pulled me aside Friday night, maybe Saturday morning, and said, Oh, this is gonna work fine. Yeah, and you relax the rest of the weekend. Yeah, so I never I was the one that was stressing really.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it sounds it sounds like you're two, it's totally complimentary to each other.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and and I yes, and I will say this. Um I've also felt for the last 25 years that Brad is one of my closest friends. Um certainly during we got very close during the the Lakerage Paving U48, uh Navy U50 time. Um and and I have complete confidence um, A, that he can do it, and B that if anything comes up where he he needs the help, that he won't be embarrassed to call me. Um and um, but at the same time, as I said, I need to keep a little bit of distance, and that shouldn't be interpreted by anyone, and I hope not by you, that oh, David must be pissed at Brad because he hasn't been down in the museum for three weeks.

SPEAKER_00

It's like he's he's retired, he's enjoying life. Yeah. Well, I guess on May 12th, everyone's gonna joke and say, well, David's in school right now, but it's true.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, it is. Yes, that is absolutely true.

SPEAKER_00

What are you going back for your degree for?

SPEAKER_03

To graduate. So I I I talked to with my um with my academic advisor, and I said, Okay, I started here 50 years ago. I am a senior. I I need uh 29 credits to graduate. I'm not looking for something to advance in my career path. My career's over. I just want to check that box because I'm literally the only one in the last three generations of my family. Nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, mom, dad, brothers, sisters, the only one in my family that has not completed college. Um, so I so anyway, I said take the credits I have and apply them to the easiest degree. Um, so it is a humanities degree with a emphasis on history and a second emphasis on psychology.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Okay. I personally think that he's just going back so he can go sit in the student section at the football games. Yeah, yeah. I have cheaper beer there, too, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, two things. First, they don't serve, well, they will be serving beer this year.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

This I've been a student, I've been an alumni. The student section is not undercover. And you get wet and cold. So no, I'm sticking in the alumni. Yeah, we got those seats. We're not giving up those seats.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. I got two huskies here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're you're surrounded.

SPEAKER_03

I'm surrounded. That's all right.

SPEAKER_00

But I feel like it since the Pac-12 debacle, I feel like it's not as much of a yeah, it's it's the whole thing's weird. It's kind of we can all agree we hate Oregon, right? Yeah. Yeah. So there we go. All

David’s Proudest Museum Moment

SPEAKER_00

right. Well, I mean, we're gonna talk more about Brad's history and in this here, but uh I want to hear more from you, David, on I mean, think about your time as director and of this museum. Like you said, it's been over 30 plus years here, and you've done so much, so many great moments. I mean, think about the Madison movie, uh, all the work there, all the restorations, um, the you know, starting from nothing to the in South Park to moving here to Kent to what we have now. What would what you'd say, what are you most proud of as your time as director?

SPEAKER_03

So this is one question I I thought about on the way down here. And it's it's not a specific boat, um, though I love them all.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and I was afraid you were gonna, you know, ask me to choose my favorite child. I love all my kids.

SPEAKER_02

I'll ask you that next.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Um, but this was something really, really cool. Uh, I have always had a little bit of an of an imposter syndrome or inferiority complex or whatever you want to call it, because we're not a real museum. People come in here all the time. Well, this isn't a real museum, this isn't what I was expecting. Um, but we're we're a hands-on museum where you can experience things. You can sit in the boats, you can touch them, you can smell the fuel. It's it's very you can be very involved. So um a guy came in uh with a visitor. Um the guy's name was um Jack Daly. Commandant Jack Daly, four-star general commandant of the Marine Corps. Also, Jack Daly spent six years running the Smithsonian Aviation Museum. Oh, okay. Big deal, big guy. He came, he was a guest of Bruce McCaw's. Um, so General Daly came down. Um, and and Bruce has a soft spot for what we do because we recreate the hydroplane experience from the shop up. I mean, you walk in, uh you were too young, but you walk in the Bardall shop back in the 60s, it smelled like this. It looked not like, but I mean it looked there were parts and there were, you know, people working and air tools ratcheting. And um, so I took Jack, I took General Daly around, um, and he was ooing and eyeing, and he was talking about he started out as a naval aviator or marine aviator. I'm not sure if the it's it's still a naval right there. Yeah, okay. He he started out um as a pilot and and flying um recips, and and uh we went back to the shop and he started talking about engines and and the hands-on experience. Um, and before he left, he was just this is great, this is great. I wish you guys, in a way, you do things that we never can. This is the director of the Smithsonian, saying we do things different and better. And then he wrote me a letter afterwards that came that he uh he just said, I want to tell you what a great time I had visiting museum and what a wonderful thing you're doing. Um and no, we are not the garden variety museum. In some ways, we don't stand next to the Museum of History and Industry or um Seattle Art Museum, or but we do something different, and what we do, we do very, very well. And so the way that we were able to impress the director of the Smithsonian, and the way he said, you do stuff we can't do, you do stuff I wish we could do. That's what I'm real proud of.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a high, high compliment.

SPEAKER_03

It's hard to hire.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean that's totally true. I mean, you walk in and you can smell the different fuels and different wirels.

SPEAKER_03

And the fiberglass and the sawdust. Yeah, um, yeah. We take you back there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. Hope you save that letter.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's somewhere in Brad's desk now.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Well, fantastic.

Why Brad Is The Right Fit

SPEAKER_00

Well, um, I mean, you talked about this transition a little bit and the time uh I didn't realize this this decision was made so further far back uh for Brad to kind of succeed you. Um but uh I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit more of like what qualities that Brad has, I guess, that that really make him stand out because there's so many uh inner sequences, there's I mean obstacles, challenges to running a museum at this caliber. Um what what were your thoughts on Brad? Um don't try to blush Brad.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah well um he has a broad knowledge. He he has a knowledge of the engines. He worked primarily on turbine engines at Budweiser. Bud was running turbines when he was there. I don't know that he ever worked on a racing Merlin there.

SPEAKER_01

He worked at Fred's my first day at Fred's place. He took me into the back of his shop, pointed me at a at a Merlin gearbox, and he goes, Okay, I need you to take that apart and clean it and then put it back together again. I had never seen a Merlin gearbox. And that you learn by doing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But Brad's interest in air racing, he's an air racing historian, and he he knew all of the great guys, uh, you know, the uh the Dwight Thorns and Course, Dixon and Dak Smith were very involved in air racing, and Jim Lacero started in racing. So his connection with air racing, his love of this history, his knowledge in the sport, his knowledge of the history. He's actually been a museum volunteer much longer than I am, because I did not get involved with the museum until 93, and he got involved in the early days with Bob Williams in the 80s. His knowledge of the collector's community, his respect in the community, people um have in both hydro racing and airplane racing know that when Brad makes a post, it's it's the gospel.

SPEAKER_01

But the interesting thing is that I can still walk through the hydroplane pits. 90% of the people don't know who I am.

SPEAKER_00

You just blend right in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um so those uh he also, you know, a fantastic model builder. Um and uh thought there's still a pay and pack model. I've I gave Brad the Pay and Pack model in the 90s. Yeah, it was probably yeah, played late late.

SPEAKER_01

It's one of the old Tester's Budweiser models.

SPEAKER_03

But I was converting it to the pay and pack and I I just wasn't comfortable building, fabricating the the the calling for it, and I asked him. Anyway, um, he's got tremendous knowledge of the sport. He's also got um, you know, he worked for me for years. I know his work ethic. He worked for the Museum of Flight, um, and saw uh, and I'm not gonna, you know, the Museum of Flight is an amazing organization, but their staff, 90% of their staff is museum trained, and only a limited number of their staff is airplane trained. Um and he saw how that can be kind of heartbreaking because the in some ways the organization loses its aviation soul. Um and we've never lost our hydro soul.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so he's uh and very smart guy, articulate, great writer, um, and someone that I can talk to. Um, and he can call me on my BS, and I can call him on his BS. Though I never have had to because he doesn't have the level of BS that I have. Um you don't ever say that anymore. I don't listen to you. But but no, um he just I won't say that I I know pretty much everybody in the boat racing community, um, from RC racers to turbine engine builders. And Brad was the guy. I never had, um I'm not saying I didn't I didn't look at other people. No one ever offered themselves, no one ever came to me and said, I want the job. Um but it just it just was such a logical fit for me for the last 20 years. I didn't see really that I had any other choice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

Being The Sport’s Unofficial Hotline

SPEAKER_00

Well, you you said something there. Like I didn't really thought, never really ever thought about this with the museum. It's a hydroplane museum, but there's so many branches off of it. I mean, there's the RC modelers, there's the collection. J Hydros, there's J Hydros, there's um the inboard outboards, there's photographers. Photographers, yes. Videographers. Yeah, all the history, the eight links to aviation, the motors. There's so many different branches off of this museum. It just it's a lot of hats to wear.

SPEAKER_01

And but he has seem to come to us from all those branches, as like the the the knowledge base. Owners, H1 owners will come and ask questions here. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I I've at various times I've had H1 owners come to me and say, we can't find the rule book from blank, from whatever you have a copy, and so yeah, I got a copy of your rules from last year, don't you? Um and there was when we started, um the URC, Unlimited Racing Commission, was still alive and was still up there um on um Highway 99, and Bill Doner and Jay um J. Michael Kenyon. Kenyon. Um and they were sort of, but as they shrunk, um, and then different people took over from here or there, and then um 20 years ago, people started calling us for H1 information because there was no H1 number to call. Yeah, you remember that you still have a hotline and and and it wasn't just people, it was the media. And I would get phone calls, and we still will get phone calls here from the Seattle Times going, um, hey, have you heard what what's Dave Vilwock doing? Has he retired? And I think I had to confirm it for for H1. Not for H1, I had to confirm it the Seattle Times. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, he's retired, and uh, you know it so at the same time we have people calling us going, uh that deal out in Kenmore, can I take my, you know, what what time does that start? There's no there's no phone number to call for the sport but us. So we get calls from everybody on everything. Or I we don't. Brad does. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

No one calls your phone's quiet or not.

SPEAKER_03

Would you like me to forward them? No, no, no. Happy to do that. So I often thought I could stop charging admission to the museum and just charge $10 to everybody that called wanting a phone number. Yeah. And probably or do you have a picture of Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I don't want it this year, uh when I want it at this race site with this ring set.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but the sad part is is that you know the the geek in me goes, oh yeah. Oh, that was at the 67 Gold Cup during Heat 2A. There's a picture of it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's the problem.

SPEAKER_03

That's but then the thing, I say this nicely, you will get tired of doing that for free. Yeah. And you will get tired of asking those people, hey, you're a museum member? Well, no, well, I when I joined the museum, you're in Seattle and I'm all the way here in in Madison. Well, what do you need the picture for? Well, I'm building an eight-scale boat, and it needs to be perfect, and I need to have a all right, well, why don't you join the museum? No, so it's like they want our resources, resources, but they don't want to support us. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um Yeah. Well, maybe you can we can change the number to a 1-900 number and start collecting all the phone calls. But that is a good point, though. I mean, uh, there's so many resources that the museum has saved. Uh in history, it's been saved here that people lean on, and uh it's it's something that you should be able to contribute back to. And there's a lot of things that the museum could use for that, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that.

SPEAKER_03

But I don't know if Brad does this. I started when an RC modeler would call me, I'd say, Well, I'm happy to do a search for a member, but if you're not a member, I'm gonna have to charge you 50 bucks an hour for my time to go search for the picture. Um and very often, well, how much does a membership cost? And we I can usually sell a membership and then send them four or five pictures.

SPEAKER_01

But we do have a very extensive repository of pictures. It's it's outstanding. And and more and more photographers as they get older are donating collections here and and we assimilate all this stuff. And you know, at some point I'd love to be able to get a truly searchable online uh database where you could say, I'd like pictures of the 67 Gills Rooster Tail Step Hall at Detroit. Oh, there's 17 pictures of it right there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Well, that would be a great addition to that vault that Don Mock uh worked on for so many years for the members, right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, David, I mean, with this transition, like you said, it's taken many years, and you've been very gracious with your time and and assisting him, Brad, with this. With all of your advice, what would you say might have been the biggest piece of advice that you've given him, or you maybe you haven't yet and you want to give him a know? I um I think the best advice my dad ever gave me racing was to not fuck up. So I don't know if if you have any better than that.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's what I wake up to at 2 30 in the morning going, oh my God.

SPEAKER_03

I I don't think there was any one aha, big shiny um.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'll tell you. Okay. Well, the biggest piece that I took and the thing that I hear that I lean on most of the time is just what we talked about earlier. You know, hey, this is what I've done, but it's it's your decision, it's your museum, and and do it how you want to do it. But at the same time, you know, David ran it for 33 years. Those are big shoes to fill, and you don't last 33 years, and more importantly, you don't grow something 33 years if you're not doing something right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01

Uh you know, look at look at where we started when David took

Handling Critics And Museum Myths

SPEAKER_01

over down at the South Park place. And well, we laugh a lot of times, you know, that that um when we moved here in 2003, I was still working for David at the time, and we I remember when you and I came down here and we were looking at the at the empty building and going, oh my god, this place is huge. It's awesome. We'll be able to put all our stuff in here and we'll never fill it. And when you walked in here today, what did you see? You know, it's like a stuffed sausage in here. And we've got a bunch of boats up in Arlington and and we're running out of room, which is a great problem to have, right? Right. It's a great problem to have, but wow, okay, that's growth.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and it's sustained growth over time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I I guess if there was one thing I could tell Brad, and I I might have said it earlier, but I'll repeat it, is don't let your feelings get hurt because there are a bunch of really mean people out there that are gonna like want to hurt your feelings. And the you know, the social media is full of mean people. And but they're they don't know a lot of our fans don't know that they're mean. But here's something that I realized there are fans out there, and the biggest thing in their life is their knowledge about hydros. And they have to feel good about themselves to think that they are the most knowledgeable hydro fan there is. Well, they can't be the most knowledgeable hydro fan if there's a place here that has 18 hydro planes and runs, you know, Griffins and Merlin's and Allison's and yep. But if we do something wrong, and they can, or in their eyes it's wrong, and they can be critical, they will blast you. Um, and and a gre and and it can be very hurtful. And one of the things that I remember vividly is we put a Merlin into the pay and pack. Hadn't fired it up yet, but I went home and I posted pictures of and and I wrote, we put a motor in the pan pack, or we put a Rolls-Royce Merlin motor in the pan pack for the first time since the late 70s. Isn't this special? And I did two things wrong, and neither of them were wrong. One is the engine in the pan pack was always a red engine. Why the hell they put a red engine in a white and orange boat, I don't know, but it was a red engine. Well, when we were restoring the engine, I made the command decision to make it a black engine because we have other boats that run Merlins. We have the two atlases that were running Merlins at the time. And a red engine in the Atlas would look really goofy, but a black engine could go for either boat. Yeah, it could also go in the slow-mo. I mean, so we painted it black. Well, when I posted a picture of a black engine going to the paint pack, there were people that came out of the woodwork to tell me what a stupid idiot I was. And this is why I could never support the museum because they don't pay attention to any of the details. They're a bunch of, you know. And you gotta learn to just let that stuff roll off your back. And uh, I mean, even to this day, there this weekend there were people tearing the Madison movie apart about how all and it's like, dude, it's not like there was a hydroplane store that we could go to and select, I want this boat and this boat and this boat. Yeah. When I got the phone call, we had 90 days, I had two running boats at the time. Yeah. We had 90 days and $25,000 to get them six running boats. And we were making deals and scrambling and but don't let the don't let the naysayers get you down, because they are out there and they will they will burrow into your mind and wake you up at two o'clock in the morning going, why aren't these people appreciative of what we do? Why are they saying, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, and it's that's totally true. And uh we'll let you you step in and talk about that, but I don't understand why the the community or the world on on when they get behind the computer screen, they the filter goes off. And and I don't always think about you know, all the things, like you said, like the motor, you can you can't we don't always have a a dedicated motor for each boat, right?

SPEAKER_01

You have to share parts and swap parts, like but I think at some point, didn't we find a color picture of the pain pack that had a black engine in it? Oh yeah, we found documentation. Yep, there it is. Oh, and that was another you you said motor.

SPEAKER_03

Um that was another big thing, there which is correct, that's the correct term. But a motor is any device that creates motive force. An engine particularly uses fuel to generate heat to create motive force. But certain people understand all engines are motors, not all motors are engines. It's a difference between you know, all dock hounds are dogs, not all dogs are dockhounds. An engine is a specific type of motor that uses fuel. So, yeah, the engine in the pay and pack is an engine, but it's also a motor. Yeah, I called, I put, I called it a motor, and I had people say, what an idiot. He doesn't know that a motor only refers to an electric motor. Well, no. You said it, it's an electric motor, right? But there's combustion motors too. Yeah. But I mean, and I had this long argument with this guy who had been a museum member and has never donated a dime since because I insulted him when he. I mean, don't let those guys bothered.

SPEAKER_01

I've even fielded over the last several years, you know. How come you guys keep running the same boat? I'm getting tired of seeing the same boats running. No, how come you can't bring this? And and it's like on any given day, we can field eight or nine boats just out of this building. Yeah, we run out of people to run the boats before we run out of boats to run.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And and you're tired of seeing that. Okay. I don't, I'm not sure I understand that, you know.

SPEAKER_03

I also get a kick out of the people that will post on Facebook, what boat should the museum restore next? What should their first turbine boat be? And it's like, I know you, and you have never donated a dime to the museum, but you're telling me about a half million dollar project that you want me to take on to please you. And it's and it's like, so anyway, my advice is don't pay attention to the naysayers on Facebook because they are legion and they'll make you crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I and I saw the post about the Madison movie too. That kind of drove me a little insane. So I'm, I mean, I wasn't involved with it, but secondhand from my dad. I heard all his stories about it, and the boat, I remember the Budweiser was red because was it the filmmakers at the time? The filmmakers demanded it be red. Well, the the the Budweiser's racing now and they're red, so we want to you know cross that bridge.

SPEAKER_03

They demanded a fickle fork.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's Hollywood, so it's not gonna be factual.

SPEAKER_03

And I'll tell you, they they sent me the script and I had did a line budget for them, and I outlined a three million dollar budget of what it would take us to to replicate the race and to do like a spare hull that could be used in multiple you know places, and they came back and said, We don't even have that for the whole movie. So what can you do for what can we do for a hundred grand?

SPEAKER_00

Um and so from three million down to a hundred grand.

SPEAKER_03

And um they they had me budget a couple other options. They said, What would it cost? How could we do this whole thing with models, with nothing but models, not a single full-size boat? And I well, you can find somebody else. That's how you can do it. Um and then the next thing when when I mean and I did a bit of a budget for them, but they then they said, Well, how about if we do this with smaller hydros? Can we do it with unlimited lights? And that was when unlimited lights were racing. And I said, Well, they're all canopied and picker. Well, that doesn't matter, no one will care. Let's do it with unlimited lights. Um, and you know, I made a few phone calls, and luckily we were filming during the heart of the unlimited light season, and we couldn't get the boats. So I was able to go back to and say, Yeah, that won't work. But so when people look at it and go, the Burian didn't appear in the gold cup, why do you have the burian there? And how come it's a picklefork? It's like, you guys are damn lucky that we didn't do this with RC models or unlimited lights. And you're complaining about the decals on the deck of a boat that don't quite match.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, I I would just say we're lucky you have that movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I always to the people that do that, it's like, would you like my copy of the ABC Wide World Sports broadcast? If you want to watch the race, there it is. Yeah, you know, this isn't that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Enjoy the movie. But they but they did get that the engine from that plane. Right? Oh, yeah, that was factual, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, and you know what was not factual? And all of the great his hydro fans that come to me and give me grief about the color of a boat. Jim McCormick never lived in Madison. He was from Owensboro, Kentucky. No one ever complains about that. They always complain the cat's pride isn't a real boat. Yeah, and Jim McCormick didn't live in Madison. Yeah, he he was up the river and he couldn't leave the house and walk to the pits. But you no one anyway, we got far off the field there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we got a little digression there.

SPEAKER_03

Don't let the naysayers get to you because they will chew you up.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. All right, well, let's let's uh let's turn the knob here. And and Brad, I want to know a little bit more about your history with hydros, and and David gave us kind of a good spiel on that, but um, you've got a lot of history to your credit on hydroplane racing, aviation. I feel like add to that.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I have a whole lot of participation trophies. Maybe kind of the forest gump who who had opportunity to be there and participate in things, but wasn't necessarily a key factor. Um, you know, I I grew up here in Seattle, and my first memory is um I actually had to clarify with my dad to make sure I didn't invent the memory. But I remember seeing the checkerboard bardall uh at the 69 race out here. We were on a friend's uh boat at the log boom, and I would have been two, but I have a vivid memory of watching the checkerboard bard all go by left to right, which means we would have been out on the log boom. And several years ago, I was like,

Brad’s Path Through Hydros And Aviation

SPEAKER_01

Dad, did this really happen? He goes, Oh, yeah, we were out on Norm's boat. Okay, cool. Um, but you know, I my dad, my dad would take us me down to the pits for time trials. Um and growing up, uh, my buddy Greg and I would go, we'd go out to time trials and you know, float around in the lagoon in our rafts. Um, so you know, seafare to me is the smell of Hawaiian tropic suntan lotion and floating around with you know, with the boats going by, because that was back in the day where you could float around in the lagoon. And I mean, I have a very vivid memory of Milner Irvin coming by, returning to the pits in the Renault and getting us wet as he was coming down off plane. Yeah. Okay, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um But I mean, my yeah, you know, my involvement in in actual involvement in boat racing uh comes goes back to uh Bob and Sherlin Williams when they had started up you know the old museum in Burian. Um and it's the same museum. It is. Um and uh Shirley Williams was the secretary at my parents' tax accountant firm. Oh. And I for whatever reason, my parents went in there one day and Shirley had something on her desk, and one conversation led to another. And hey, you need to call these people and go over to their house. So I started going over their house. And um that kind of got me in. And you know, it's that's where my Bob Sr. And that was where my button addiction started. And that's just kind of how things started. Um, you know, and and I I like to joke that when I when I went to work for Budweiser, my first paycheck, I cashed and I bought a charter membership at the old museum. So in my office right now, I've got my charter membership card framed on the wall, just as a reminder. Um and I my favorite my favorite story about this was when when we publicly announced that I was gonna take over, was I got a text from Shirley Williams. She said, Bob would be so proud of you. Oh, wow. I thought, all right, there it is. There, there is my motivation and my validation right there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But um, you know, I I grew up in a flying family. My dad was an Air Force pilot, and we grew up with a family airplane. I like to joke that uh, you know, if you grow up, if you grow up in a family that that races boats, you don't know any different. If you grow up with a family that has horses in their pasture, you think everybody has horses, right? And I was the kind of guy that uh I went flying with my dad every weekend and I knew how to fly before I knew how to, you know, drive a car. And I couldn't figure out why my friends always wanted to come down to the airport with us on the weekends to go flying. Well, that's because they didn't have an airplane, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so airplanes have kind of really been my first love. Um and that's why I had to take a break out of my hydroplane career. Uh, I stopped working at Budweiser because I got commissioned to the Navy and I went and flew in the Navy for 10 years. Okay. But through that, um, you know, I'd still arrange to uh uh come home every year for seafare, and I worked with Bob Sr. and gave pit tours and stuff like that. Uh and then once I I arranged to actually get stationed so I was flying out of Whidby Island. And that was when I came down to the the new museum had been formed, and that was where David and I started doing stuff together. And and out of that, gosh, you got you kind you kind of got me back into it because uh we were putting the Slow Mo 4 back together to go back in Mohai. Oh, okay. And yeah, I still remember this. You had hired me to do that, and I was down there, I was I was repainting the valve covers on them on the Merlin, and Ken Muscatel walked in and he goes, Hey, you you you worked at Budweiser and did did uh um composite stuff, right? He goes, I need you to come up and and work on the free eye. And I wasn't really, you know, I thought, well, Muscatel in the museum, it's all the same thing. So I all right, I'll go up to work up there too. And he's like, Hey, you were working for me down here, it's two separate things. But um yeah, that kind of got me back in, and that was where I worked with your dad for the first time. Yeah, um, so yeah, and and after, you know, I had, as I said earlier, I had I had worked, um I was uh gosh, I was a sophomore in college, and I was out at Chuck Lieford's uh house one afternoon. Uh he was he they were family friends, and I went over there to talk to him about something. I don't remember what it was, but uh he goes, Oh, hey, uh Fred Leland's out in the back doing some Mason work. Let's go say hi. And and that was he goes, Hey, I'm looking for people to to to work on my other boat. So uh that got me in working on the the Packard boat. Um and that I I will still say, you know, Fred back then still had the reputation as he was kind of the the latter-day Bob Gillam, right? He was the dark man of the fleet. That man was one of the smartest street knowledge people I've ever met.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

For a guy that had an elementary school education, incredibly smart guy. And he he would always walk around with his little uh green notebook, always writing stuff down, but I learned an awful lot from that guy.

SPEAKER_00

Um Yeah. I feel like that would be another interview I'd like to love to do one day, talk more about the Packard and with Leland and all that.

SPEAKER_01

I learned an awful lot awful fast. I learned all all of the stuff that I I realized I didn't know. Yeah. But I was still, you know, I was I was I'd always been the little kid on the other side of the fence, right? Looking in, hoping for somebody to throw me a button or for the one of the drivers to say hi. And now suddenly there I was doing something. And I thought, wow, this is the big time. Yeah, this is awesome. And I remember after that year was over, thinking, you know, if I never do that again, I I'm okay. I I I did my part. I did my part. And I while I was out at college, you know, every afternoon I'd run down the Burke Inland Trail down to uh down to um the park down there and up on top of Kite Hill at Gasworks. And that was like my run after every afternoon. And I'd reward myself by walking up the hill to where the bud shop was. And that was just a daily routine. I'd if the door was open, I'd stick my head in, or I'd peek over the top in the windows and stuff. And uh, and one day I I happened to be wearing an old squire shop sweatshirt that I ran in, and I was peeking in the door, and uh the door opened, and Leo Vandenberg walked out to empty the garbage. And he goes, Oh, hey, I used to work on that team. Hey, why don't you come on in? I'll show you around. And uh yeah, one thing led to another, and I I got that was my first paid job. I got paid seven bucks an hour to work with Kurt Tavner uh upstairs in the uh in the fabrication shop. Okay, and I I've told Kurt this before, but I mean he taught me a skill. Kurt is someone you need to interview at some point.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a good idea. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01

But the funny thing was yeah, Kurt's only like three years older than me. He was he was he went to Highline High School in Burian just like I did. So uh it was very cool that he taught me this skill that I've been able to carry forward on several teams, but I do the glass work here, you know, on the projects.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um so yeah, I I'm trying to remember why at some point uh Scott Rainey and I had actually met through an air racing chat room. Oh, okay. And then we realized that, oh, hey, you're here. Oh, you do hydroplanes too. So we got together, and that led to me going out to work for Worcester and worked for Worcester for a few years, and we sold the boat to the shoemakers. And uh, you know, I started doing um in addition to doing some of the fabrication work, I started doing PR and sponsor hunting for them. Uh, but that's a real eye-opener, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know if Brad will take credit for it, but he's the one who brought Bill Cahill and Beacon Plumbing into the sport. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01

Well, he he had kind of he had kind of dabbled with Fred Leland and got really bad results and said he was done.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01

And he came up with Billy and said, I think we can do something here. And and I remember at the we we were right down here at Claim Jumper uh when when we signed the the contract, and I I as we walked away, I said, Bill, we won't embarrass you. And when we won Seafair, yeah, I was on the radio up at the start-finish tower, and he was in the suite next to us. And I remember walking in and just putting my hand on his shoulder and said, I told you we would not embarrass you. And he was just like, Oh my god, we just won Seafair, you know. So that was neat.

SPEAKER_00

That's big.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and then uh David, you know, asked me to come help, and and when we formed the team with O'Farrell. Um and I don't remember, I remember, really remember what I did that first year, but I think I was I was in the sponsor hunting mode the whole time, and and that was what led to getting the Navy to sponsor us for an entire season the next year, which boy, we had we had big plans and we had a commitment from the Navy to go full season with a much bigger investment in 2009. Uh, and then they had a BRAC closure where all the all the funding for recruiting and sponsorship got pulled away. I Dale Ernard Jr. lost his sponsorship for the for the stock card, too. It's this close. Yeah. But I mean we had we had the sponsorship agreement ready to go. What would that have looked like? Well, the first year that we did that sponsorship, um, this came about because I flew P3 Orions in the Navy. And the only reason that I got any interest at all from the Navy was I had talked to a guy from the Navy recruiting district, Seattle.

The Hard Truth About Sponsorships

SPEAKER_01

And initially, the person that I talked to was like, ah, it's a cool idea, but yeah, we can't really do that. And a couple weeks later, I got an email saying, Hey, this is so-and-so, I'm the commander. I'd like you to come down and talk to me. Well, it turned out he was a P3 pilot also. And we had mutual friends that we'd flown with. And that was kind of the you get your foot in the door and you talk to the right person. Yeah. And he's like, Okay, I think here's what we can do. We're gonna find, what do we have, like eight races that year or something like that? And I am going to personally contact the commanding officer of the recruiting district that each race is in, and we all have this pool of money that we can spend however we want. And we basically coordinated that. So each race, even though it was a national sponsorship for the Navy, each race was actually a local sponsorship from that recruiting district.

SPEAKER_03

Which is the way that we put together the Dr. Toyota sponsorship with Bill Worcester back when I was running for Bill in 1979, where we did Dr. Toyota, Frank Kenny here paid to have the boat painted, and then we went out to Toyota of Evansel, Toyota of Detroit, Toyota of, and put $5,000 from the local Toyota dealership to run the boat.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But the Navy deal goes back, and I don't know which one of us, but it was late one night when all hydroplane shops are cool late at night. And we had the O'Farrell boat was outside, and Brad and I were leaving about the same time, and we were standing there looking at the boat talking, and and I can't say whether it was Brad telling me or me telling Brad, but we're looking at the canopy and the uprights and the exhaust tube, and went, this is a blue angel.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We need to find a way to paint one of these up as a blue angel. And and then that led to, well, hey, you know, maybe we can um, but but that I have a very vivid memory. It's sun setting, Brad and I in the parking lot looking at the boat, going, dude, this is a blue angel. Let's get it painted up.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that this whole part of the conversation really uh a lot of people out there don't understand because I can't tell you how many times, how many times online do you see, hey, have you guys approached Red Bull? Right. Hey, have you thought that maybe Starbucks? Have you talked to Starbucks?

SPEAKER_00

Have you thought about Microsoft?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I'm like, the the year, the first year I started doing sponsorship packages out at um Bill Worcester's thing, I think I sent out about 300 sponsorship proposals. Wow. I got eight back. And those eight weren't yes, we're gonna do it. It's um okay, why don't you tell me some more? And if you don't think that every single uh team has approached Starbucks or Red Bull or whoever multiple times every year, you know. So when you get the sponsorships, it really is who you know. The the days of what's the story when uh when um Proctor and Gamble uh got into the sport, they came to the URC and said, Hey, you guys got something pretty good going here. Do you have a team that needs a sponsor? Well, yes, Bill Worcester's team is a sponsor. Yeah, those days are long gone, you know. So you have to have and but but let's look at the other stuff. Why did Budweiser spend 40 years in the sport? Because Bernie Little, who was an airplane dealer, sold August Bush an airplane and it was like the hydroplane was sitting, the four-seater was sitting over in the hangar, and he goes, What's that? And Bernie being the salesman going, Well, why let's go for a ride? Hey, would you like to sponsorship? Well, yes, I would. And that's why Budwise, it was a personal relationship. Right. O.H. Frisbee, why did OH Frisbee sponsor the hydroplanes? Because he had a, even though you know, uh Alex Bandlines was in Evansville, he had an apartment at the Whittier Hotel in Detroit and could see the hydroplanes. I thought that'd be a really cool way to get my message out. But he's a hydroplane fan, right? Yeah. Pan Pack, Dave Harensberg, he's an owner who liked hydroplanes. So it's it is really difficult to be able to go. I mean, sure, everybody would be able to love to go to whatever the whatever the the dure sponsor is right now and say, oh, it'd be great to get them on board. Yeah, well, it's easier said than done because they need a return on investment.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_03

But let me go back to an earlier question you had. Why did I tap Brad? Because he could also go ask for money.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Which is crucial.

SPEAKER_03

90%, 98, 99% of what I did here was ask for money. Yeah. And Brad knows how to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Knuckleheads, that's all the time we have for this week. I hope you enjoyed part one of my interview with David Williams and Brad Haskins. Those two together probably have the history of the sport memorized. I think if you had any question about the history of the sport, ask either one of them and you would get the right answer. They have it's impressive the vast knowledge they have of hydroplane racing. And there's no doubt in my mind that why David Williams was the director for over 30 years and why Brad has picked up this torch and moving forward with the Hydroplane Museum. Now, if you haven't visited the Hydroplane Enrichment Museum, you need to put that as a priority because they have such a great variety, displays, so much memorabilia and hydroplanes there that you have to go there and check it out for yourself. Now, Saturday, September 20th of this month, Brad has brought back an old tradition from the museum, Hydro Fever. Now, if you remember back in the 90s, the museum,

Hydro Fever Event And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_00

they had this at their museum in South Park, but they also had it down at Coulomb Park on Lake Washington. They had something called Hydro Fever, which brings together all the hydroplane geeks. Well, let's say hydroplane historians instead of hydroplane geeks. It brings all the hydroplane historians and enthusiasts together to talk hydroplane racing, to look at old merchandise, memorabilia, buttons. You can trade, swap, sell things there. If you're interested in having a table there, so you can sell your some things out of your own collection, it's $15 per table. All proceeds will go to the Pacific Northwest Boat Racing Association. So it's the museum is giving back to the local chapter of boat racing around the Pacific Northwest, and all proceeds go to the PNBRA. But if you want to reserve a table for yourself to sell your own goods, you can contact Brad Haskins at the Hydroplane and Race Boat Museum. I'll put some more information in the bio below. But it's a great chance just to be around other hydroplane enthusiasts, talk about hydropane racing, and maybe pick up some things for your collection that you're missing. I'll be there. I got a table reserved, and I hope to see you there later this month. In the meantime, don't forget to check us out on social media. We're on Instagram, Facebook. We also have a website of RoosterTellTalk.com, and on there you'll see all kinds of updates and on new episodes and whatnot. And don't forget to check out that Rooster Tell Talk Plus subscription service as you get some more premium things there for signing up for a monthly premium subscription. That's all the time we have for this week. So until next week, I hope to see you at the race.