The Wilderness and Wellness Podcast

Tracking Series 05 – Kyt Lyn Walken: Mantracking

November 18, 2020 Ron Waline / Kyt Lyn Walken
The Wilderness and Wellness Podcast
Tracking Series 05 – Kyt Lyn Walken: Mantracking
Chapters
The Wilderness and Wellness Podcast
Tracking Series 05 – Kyt Lyn Walken: Mantracking
Nov 18, 2020
Ron Waline / Kyt Lyn Walken

In this fifth episode of my tracking series I had the privilege of discussing the topic of mantracking and its applications with European mantracking instructor Kyt Lyn Walken. Kyt and I delve into the many ways that mantracking can be utilized, from survival scenarios to anti-poaching operations and so much more. We talk about the differences and similarities between wildlife tracking and mantracking, some historical situations where mantracking has been employed, and some resources for people to begin learning the art of mantracking.

Connect with Kyt and “The Way of Tracking” Mantracking School:

The Way of Tracking Website

The Way of Tracking’s Facebook Page

The Way of Tracking’s Instagram Page

Kyt Lyn Walken’s YouTube Channel

Book Recommendations:

Tracking: A Blueprint for Learning How

Sign and the Art of Tracking: A Guide to Support Law Enforcement Tracking and Anti-Poaching Operations 

Booklist Link from Kyt’s Website (With many free downloads including the two books listed above)

Complete Guide to Tracking: Concealment, Night Movement, and All Forms of Pursuit Following Tracks, Trails and Signs, Using 22 SAS Techniques

Show Notes Transcript

In this fifth episode of my tracking series I had the privilege of discussing the topic of mantracking and its applications with European mantracking instructor Kyt Lyn Walken. Kyt and I delve into the many ways that mantracking can be utilized, from survival scenarios to anti-poaching operations and so much more. We talk about the differences and similarities between wildlife tracking and mantracking, some historical situations where mantracking has been employed, and some resources for people to begin learning the art of mantracking.

Connect with Kyt and “The Way of Tracking” Mantracking School:

The Way of Tracking Website

The Way of Tracking’s Facebook Page

The Way of Tracking’s Instagram Page

Kyt Lyn Walken’s YouTube Channel

Book Recommendations:

Tracking: A Blueprint for Learning How

Sign and the Art of Tracking: A Guide to Support Law Enforcement Tracking and Anti-Poaching Operations 

Booklist Link from Kyt’s Website (With many free downloads including the two books listed above)

Complete Guide to Tracking: Concealment, Night Movement, and All Forms of Pursuit Following Tracks, Trails and Signs, Using 22 SAS Techniques

Ronald Waline  
Well, that's the cool thing about tracking is it's a universal language.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Absolutely. Even if I have to stress out that people from UK use slightly different words or to identify tracks for example, they use spoor as a term, which is not so common in the United States. I actually I never heard of that, the use of the word spoor to identify tracks, micro tracks and so on. But there's a reason why because that word that came from a Danish language, spaar, and it was acquired from the South Africans. So as the British Army often in the past work side by side with the South Africans they can acquire and trade and honor the use of the word "spoor". 

Ronald Waline  
Okay, interesting. Yeah, that's cool. the only the only time I can recall hearing the word sport in relation to tracking is typically with more tactical tracking and tracking in that, oh, even over here in the States. I've done some, some work with David Scott Donelan. And he uses that and then I know Ty Cunningham did a, I forget if it was a Master's or PhD thesis on on, you know, recognizing spore and what not and so so it's here but yeah, definitely not as much especially in terms of wildlife tracking. It's not used.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Exactly No. the word tracking is not very common in tactical tracking. Yes. Because David Scott Donelan, he actually wrote a book, "Tactical Tracking Operations" which is an institutionalization. I'm sorry, it's very long word in English to spell. And he actually wrote down the Rhodesian method of tracking from the Selous scout. And the Selous Scouts were from Great Britain. So that's why they still use the word spoor in tactical tracking, I got spoor. I lost the spoor. I'm observing. 

Ronald Waline  
Exactly. Yeah, that's perfect. Cool. So how long have you been tracking what and kind of just tell us the story like what got you into this and how long you've been doing it and all that.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Let me say I've been an enthusiast of the great outdoors all my life. I kind of took advantage of my childhood in going to the Alps with my parents doing very small hikes. And then later on out around 2012 I began to approach the survival scenario survival skills making arts, starting a fire, camping using a tarp and so-on. All that stuff that we all know inside this type of podcast later on it grew in me the dream of learn how to track because my father is a really fanatic of old west movies. One hundred percent.

Ronald Waline  
Likes the westerns. Huh?

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Exactly. And I grew up oh, you know, with Lee Van Cleef. With Clint Eastwood with Sergio Leone movies, and I was so astonished by it.

Ronald Waline  
The old spaghetti westerns.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Exactly, yes, spaghetti westerns that was shot in Spain and not in the United States.

Ronald Waline  
Right, yeah.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
But it was it was cool and I started looking up on the internet in order to find out a school where to learn this skill. And I found that the European, the, how do you say version of the David Scott Donelan tracking school and representative they are Oh, and that I attended three courses with them. And later on in 2017, I got occasion to attend to the blade show in Atlanta and then move to Virginia to attend a class of tactical -------which was led by Mike Hull and also Cornelius Nash, who is an exceptional tracker who's based in ----- and David was kind of impressed by me and I'm still I'm so grateful for him like to turn me the official representative and official instructor for the world European area for his school that was part of leading my own classes are all over Italy because I don't have a physical school here and don't have any an entity but I just move from one spot to another from the north to the middle to the south. And I also had a chance to take part two the bushcraft show in UK last year and you know public speaking on the benefits of man tracking still today. So just

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, very good

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Those are the main features on my more or less story in tracking,

Ronald Waline  
Right. Very good. Cool. And so tell us A little bit more about the art of man tracking. How does it compare to wildlife tracking because of course, in this podcast, we really focused on nature in that and so we talked a lot about wildlife tracking and whatnot, but man tracking is is very similar, obviously, but there's some other things to be considered. And I wonder if you could tell us about that,

Kyt Lyn Walken  
It is on the very basics are just the same, because you have to detect the right track. So you have to read them to interpret them and then follow so we have four different phases in what is tracking as well as in mantracking. The main differences is the mentality because when we follow a man now we have to follow a person who are probably probably, you know, quite 100% of the cases made are the reason behind the moving from one spot to another. From alpha to Omega and so-on.  Animals instead they behave by instinct. So, they reach their feeding areas up their sleeping areas move by directing their habits, natural habits, instead a man or group of persons who are moved by a sort of reasoning on the goal and the intention to reach a specific purpose because they needed to reach an area or that kind of reason or they have to meet with another person for that kind of reasons and so on. Plus, we have a main difference also in how the tracks left by humans appear on soil. Because in case of animals we will look for signs of it ---- over cloves of ----- and so on and depends on the type of species of the animal in the case of man In most quite most of the cases, we wear shoes and we  obviously need to face with the pattern of the shoes and what is the pattern is a I'm sorry just use it ----- as a basis for me to understand what is the pattern is the design of the sole. If you see something like this in nature in such a regularity as a cause in the tracking terminology is definitely left by a human individual and not by an animal. This is exactly it is common sense obviously, but if you have a proper trace with a proper ---- age of humidity and this kind of terrain, as well for men tracking as well for wildlife tracking are called track traps because they will show the pattern of silhouette of the tracks are more likely to show you the pattern of the shoe or the shoes, if we refer to a group of individuals, no matter if they are men or women a child and so-on. Another thing to consider is the fact that if we spot an entire track and not a partial one, we can collect so many data from the person who was wearing it, it was leaving the track. If it was a male or a female, it was younger, it was older, it was carrying a load, a rucksack or a bag, whether it's the left shoulder or right shoulder or something are in balance ---- and so on. So many many details, which turns out to be the, the the database legacy of a tracker. Exactly.

I can talk for hours, so you need to stop

Ronald Waline  
Sure, no, no, you're doing great! No, that's perfect. So, so if I could just kind of like, I guess, re summarize, one of the main difference between tracking human and tracking animals is kind of the mindset and the intentions of animals are very driven by their instincts, they're looking for food, water. I know, with animal tracking, there's kind of a push or pull. And I suppose the same thing could be said, for tracking humans, man tracking, there's a push or pull, you know, there's something that's maybe pulling a human toward something, whether it's a settlement or an objective, they're trying to get to for whatever reason. And then perhaps there's a push, you know, for instance, I can imagine if someone is, you know, in a fugitive, and they're, they're trying to hide, but if the trackers are getting close, or if they feel threatened in some way, it's gonna push them out of their hide and they're gonna take off, you know, And so I could see how it could be both easier and harder to track you human because animals I can, I can imagine are very reasonable. And and and their instincts are very set. Whereas humans can sometimes be very unreasonable. And sometimes I can imagine it would be hard to determine what their objective is.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Absolutely,

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, but but at the same time, since we are humans, we can kind of understand the way they think a little more to try to put our minds in the mind of an animal and so it's a that's a kind of an interesting dynamic there, in my mind. And then, let's see, one of the other things that you spoke of is is the data that we're able to get and our ability to notice, human tracks, I guess, probably will be more readily because of the patterns of the sole creates a pattern that's very, not not often seen in the natural world. And so

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Like never let me say because of the geometry of the, there is the kind of design that triangles, you have our small circles like a beehive, for example, Converse shoes, and so on. It is absolutely unnatural in nature.

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, definitely. And so, like animal tracking as well, we're looking for trap tracks, places where people you know, if we have one particular person that you're tracking for whatever reason, you can get a lot information from the whole track and the trap track track trap. Yeah, it's a mouthful sometimes. But, uh, yeah, so and you were saying, you know, you can tell if they're carrying something you can tell if it's a male or female or height. Based on the, the, you know, relative weight as well based on the stride, and the depth, and all those other things, the size of the shoe and all that kind of stuff. So it's amazing. It's always amazing to me the amount of information that one can obtain from looking at tracks, especially to people that don't know what tracking is like. It's really, it's, it's really amazing how accurate one can be looking at tracks, you know, if they're, if they're well versed in the art of tracking, even sometimes to the point of being able to tell things in someone's track that you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the person themselves, such as injuries and things like that. So that that's always really fascinating to me. So let's move into basically some modern applications for man tracking what what can this skill allow us to do? What what are what is it effective for doing and and how are those, how is the skill applied in modern in the modern sense,

Kyt Lyn Walken  
We have a sort of a, a wide range of  fields of application of this art. Some of them are extremely ancient, even if before the colonialism period, which has been a great spotlights for the use of tracking all over the African colonies from the European countries. We still have or some remarkable use during the Indian wars, since a lot of Native Americans have been employed as scouts by the USA army. And then again, we have an application of a tactical tracking in the Vietnam War. And since that kind of that specific frame of time, later on the use of tracking has been kinda you, dismissed, a little bit on let me use this word and he kind of slowly got into oblivion now, because people at the time, it was more prone to think that the technology kind of, you know, replace the use of these ancients kill. That the kind of, you know, unexpected way back in 2007 has been reintroducted inside they use USA army for Afghanistan, because people realize that the application of tracking for detecting the IED of improvised explosive devices could be extremely useful in terms of saving lives, saving money, saving all the resources in here too, for the USA Army and talking about instead of the search and rescue dimension. In a lot of countries who actually actually speak English, for example, New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, United States as well, the use of a man trackers inside of the search and rescue team, is still priceless for several reasons. First of all, that you can't only rely on dogs because dogs are great. Dogs are a really great legacy all over the world because if you have a if you go to us on our highly trained dog, you can actually find a person in, what, five minutes 10 minutes, it depends on the conditions, but if you run across a very day with a bad weather conditions and violent storms, such a cruel wind, like a tempest, so dogs are more prone to lose the sniffing as you say, and ---- The pairing of a tracker with a K9 and it could be a good source for success in the operation.

Ronald Waline  
Yeah take the benefits of both and put them together to make up make up for the difficult parts.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
In case the tracker may lose the track, you have the dog in case you have the opposite you can use the tracker. Put it all together it's been it's been and it's still it is the best solution not to to look for in my personal opinion not only mine, of course. And then again you have the patrolling of the famous or infamous border with Mexico, because in that specific area in the Sonoran Desert up you have certain spots with a bushes up to like this, and a person like me and a Mexican are not known for being extremely tall can hide. Okay. And in that specific case, the use of drone that has been kinda useless because a drone can't detect if a person is hiding himself or herself near or under a bush. And the use of trackers on tracks and patrolling several times the same, you know, --- of soil or near the border is a extremely remarkable resource  nowadays, even if we have so much technology at our disposal, then and now it comes to we have the forensic tracking now. But let me say that each country has got its own procedures for the application of his art because for example, here in Italy we don't have trackers for the forensic the ---- Police, in Italy ----- come to the crime scene, look at the ground if and only if this part of one track they could consider to keep it as an evidence. Okay, but they aren't able to reconstruct and run a track line in for example an outdoor scenario like a private garden ---- and so on and, and indoors in your home. And as a very last field of application we have anti-poaching and wildlife conservation. And in this specific field, we have men tracking paired to wildlife tracking, because once I've tracking that is 100% focused on monitoring and doing a researches in order to you know, to preserve but also to facilitate the conservation of the wildlife, especially in countries like Africa, Asia, mantracking data is only applied to the ---- of poachers. I know that it could be your next question and I'm trying to incubate my answer.

Ronald Waline  
No, that's perfect, 

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Because there's a bridge and you know, Miss pitch. And most of the time of poachers in Africa are former wildlife Rangers. That's extremely sad, but it's all due to money. It's a little bit of a business. Because, being a poacher means they'll earn so many money enough so much brief period of time, short period of time. You can get easily rich instead of being in wildlife rangers, you said that you have a fixed salary, but not so high, just a very average salary.

Ronald Waline  
And I can imagine having been a wildlife Ranger, one can get a good idea of where the animals are and kind of already have a little bit of that

Kyt Lyn Walken  
They know exactly how many individuals of lions for example, you have how many elephants? How many are cubs of tigers in Asia. 

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, so I can see how that would be. It would be an easy transition, unfortunately, to go from wildlife Ranger to poachers. It's like yeah, like dangling that carrot in front of you all the time. Hey, look at all this wildlife that's worth so much money and my family's starving and it's yeah, it's a very unfortunate situation all around.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Now, I don't want to go deeper inside this specific point. But very often the poachers are also extremely close to to terrorists from the ISIS because a source of money for them is actually selling tusk, ivory, and so on. So tusk and the others one's are ivory. Key now is lions parts of the genitals also because sometimes India is the I think medicina they are considered like our in panecea in Italian northern word in English, it could be panacea, an old Greek word, to cure all that are all all the possible disease that you may have, especially cancers and so on.

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, that's unfortunate. So, how, you know, we've talked about the applications for forensics and anti But well, let's go a little more in anti poaching, if you will. So So how would a How is how can tracking be used to detect and find poachers and maybe even, you know, save animals who might be in the act of being tracked for being poached and all that kind of stuff.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Usually, when all the wildlife Rangers are good the trackers because tracking represents a sort of a cornerstone on the the whole training program for wildlife Rangers. Because man tracking can be applied for two different purpose which are in fact they are linked to each other. The first one is tracking poachers in order to spot the if they have set any traps for animals so most of the times these tracks are wires made of rusty iron. They are called snares, and they are like seeing acircle shape. And they are set near the bushes. So, so, in essence, if they work as by strangle, so, in that case any kind of animal can be trapped, from like lions, elephants, rhinos and so-on. And really the animal will die by extreme bleeding okay. And one of the tasks in fact of the of the conservation rangers is to look for tracks on the ground especially when you have that softer soil made of sand. Just follow the tracks and spot that exact point to where the snare on the tracks has been set. And the other task is just look at the ground, follow the poachers and see how many are. They are carrying rifles especially in Africa the two are the two most common weapons are AK-47 and the shotguns because they are very easy to to find on the black market. And search for their campfires in the night and see if they have a created a hole in the fence in order to get in or just come down and break in inside the fence. So sometimes the Rangers also if they are working inside the usual servicer they tracks are also using like small jeeps, small cars, small trucks and they just put themselves at the very edge of the I don't know their their word in English I'm sorry for that part of the car but very front and just spot the tracks then just to cut time, save time you know and ah

Ronald Waline  
Cutting for sign basically

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Exactly! Because to cut for sign is exactly that spot for the right track line to follow and get it done get done. Yeah, half day is the same

Ronald Waline  
Interesting and I imagine this is a very dangerous job because like you said the Rangers which have turned you know, which sometimes turn poachers, so the poachers themselves are good trackers which means that they would likely employ a lot of anti tracking techniques and and set up ambushes maybe and things like that I can imagine.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
They are actually the most common anti-tracking technique employed by them by poachers is just to use very flat shoes with no pattern at all. Okay, like I was emntioning that David Scott Donelan in his books. That's why the Selous Scouts would wear that kind of shoes. Because they can you know confuse the, they look ----- because the tracks and just look exactly the same there's no definite pattern no specific design sole of a English made ---- and so-on and by the other ---- is like, most of the time they also to use improvised explosive devices. Sometimes they have any kind of knowledge in setting small bombs or stuff like this. They sure will employ that especially if they are ---- the tusks and putting them on the black market.

Ronald Waline  
Interesting. 

Kyt Lyn Walken  
And then there is a variety of anti tracking techniques I could speak for. It just depends on the situation. Poachers do what is needed in that specific scenario at a specific frame of time and place. 

Ronald Waline  
Right, that makes sense. So let's move on to survival How can tracking be used in a survival scenario for instance?

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Ah, well I kind of covered this topic several times in some articles that I wrote.

Ronald Waline  
Oh wonderful! I'll post links to those in the show notes of this episode.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Yeah. People can know if they are willing to learn to not learn to read them and just maybe, maybe learn something new. If they don't, they can actually spot it on my website on our publication. And then you have the -----

Ronald Waline  
Perfect, I will put a link to that, for sure.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
It is all in my personal opinion sort of unavoidable level of combination between the tracking and survival because if you have to survive in a specific situation that you need first that you applied your tracking skills is like doing reconnaissance. For example, if you have to set a safe camp for night you will look for tracks of predators. If you want to use a cave, you will surely look at the ground if you spot any foreign tracks for mountain lions, for example, we don't have mountain lions here in Europe, but we still have lynxes, which you usually do not attack the man but uh, you never know. Okay, you never know. So looking for animal tracks as well as for human tracks in order to understand if there is any kind of evidence of the passage. It will always be a very good first step to, to face when you have to survive. And then again, you can apply wildlife tracking skills in order to understand if there are problems. If you can set tracks or traps sorry for small animals like hares, rabbits, squirrels and so on. So also looking for tracks a bit like this. So micro micro tracks that you will help you to understand if you can maybe spot the remains of some walnuts for example, chestnuts ---- and so-on the squirrels need and they just leave the shell on the ground. They're very it is a I mean, it's not something that I personally invented or invented someone else just, it just comes, so just see to collect as many details as possible, put it all together and create a figurative puzzle in your head. This is a safe area, I am more likely to do the camp right here and it is a good way to go or no it's not safe because I spot some weird tracks on the ground and it looks to me like a little bit unsafe is just that is just this and plus set in the third arm. I mean civility you have to spot for other's tracks in order to find a way to come back home, somewhere safer or backtracking yourself and because if you get in the middle of nowhere you have no GPS, no batteries, and you sent a lot of videos and messages to your friends and family telling everyone oh I'm in such a cool place but oh no, I got no batteries, I'm screwed. What you can do is just turn yourself back and backtrack yourself. If you're able to do that it could save your life. 

Ronald Waline  
Absolutely. Yeah, and one one trick I learned from my from a good friend is to help not get lost to begin with is as you're hiking or walking through where you're at, just just turn around and look back every now and then. And it'll put that mental image of what that looked like. So if you do have to actually turn around and backtrack yourself, not only will you have the spore and your own tracks to use, but you'll have the mental images that you took on the way there to kind of know "okay, yeah, I recognize this area."

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Now I recognize the tree or I see that side now if you happen to me, for example, the beginning of the year, I was in Texas into Central Texas, and I was you know, just making a simple hike and I was so simple, and it's In that scenario but it looks exactly the same because you have some mesquite trees all around you have this arid area and you have no reference points okay if I was a just sticking on the main path because it was recommended by the authorities, also due to the presence of snakes and I just want to avoid any kind of problem

Ronald Waline  
It is Texas after all.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
It is very you know, the terrain kind of looks serious in terms of vegetation, it's really really nice. It's like Colorado bend River National Parks should be but just notice that I didn't have any kind of main reference points because it all looks exactly the same, like being in the desert which is a one of my favorite environments to be in, but a you are in desert, you can't rely on that cactus or on that kind of plant just that you know, being able to do something more I don't want to sound too much boring I thought I told you I advise you I can talk for hours.

Ronald Waline  
Oh, you're great You're doing great. So what are give us some ideas on how one can learn to track and maybe man tracking specifically like what are some if someone's really interested in curious in this art you know, how can one go about beginning to learn this thing this this skill?

Kyt Lyn Walken  
My recommendation is not to rely only on YouTube videos. First of all, because I Oh, back in the day I did the very first mistake because I was just looking at the videos on Youtube and most of them are absolutely brilliant and very well made 100% I told you. But, you have a 2d visions of the tracks instead the tracks are in 3d they have their own depth as well. You need to bring yourself out in the field in something what is called in the tracking terminology dirt time. But first thing first, go to a good school. There are a lot of amazing schools the United States. You have David Scott Donelan. You have Mike Hull you have Ty Cunningham, you have a Fernando Moreira in Nevada, you have a lot of schools we can teach you how to track in a few months, and how to do that in the proper way. A specific thing that I always consider is the terrain. Because of for example, if I live in area like Virginia, where my instructor Mike lives, you have there's a very pleasant panoramic area with hills, the Blue Ridge Mountains and by the scenario over down and the terrain obviously that is the opposite you should live in an area like Arizona or I don't know New Mexico, and so on. So my recommendation is to find a school close to your state, near to your area, because you need to track it in your own area first. And it's it makes sense right?

Ronald Waline  
Definitely.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
People who are willing to learn how to track and they just send me messages, "Oh Kyt I just want to attend one of your classes on the Alps." The Alps are absolutely amazing, but they are highly contaminated because there's a lot of hikers, and climbers too over there and especially if you live in a state with no mountains at all like Kansas for example, or Nebraska. You needed to become familiar with what you have over there in your ----. The terrain can be your best ally or your worst enemy as I said in my books and I also upload the video on YouTube today with that title. 

Ronald Waline  
Very good cool thank you and speaking of books what are what are a few books you might recommend if someone wants to start learning man tracking or or read a good story or whatever whatever books you might recommend on man tracking

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Well I you bring with me on as I show you before the the book by Michael. I don't want it to make a promotion but it's a really good book. It's very well layer. It has good images and colors which is not so common in tracking manuals, and it is a good resource and data. But if you want to gather more at the very first book on tracking, this is the book because this book has been written back in the 70s and this man Jack Kearny used to be a border patrol officer, and he just wrote down a manual which is still current nowadays. It is extremely good and nothing you can people can find it on Amazon because it's been reprinted.

Ronald Waline  
Yeah, so this book for those who are listening, this is tracking a blueprint for learning how by Jack Kearney, right? And yeah, I didn't know that was back in print because I looked for that a couple years ago and it was like, I don't know. 60-70 bucks. somewhere so so I'm glad to know it's back in print and we'll put a link to that for sure.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
It should be if I am uh pretty much sure but even if... no matter what you can find also the PDF version in case you have just have to print them because it's all black and white. But it's an amazing book, really. And the two other books that I truly recommend are I don't want it to sound up you know, I'm partial with my my with my choices

Ronald Waline  
You can be as partial as you want Kyt. It's okay.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Because I I really appreciate all the books on tracking the new books has got some very good aspects. A cool bird, something new something novel sometimes, so, but this my personal selection, okay, so this is a book that you unfortunately can't find in print because only 100 copies has been printed back in the day. It is good, it is actually the only one existing based on anti-poaching. And as you can see, that's Jack Kerney. So the author of this book it collaborator with Nellemann, Nellemann, Sorry, right to write down this book,

Ronald Waline  
Okay. And this one is called sign and the art of tracking. And it's a guide to support law enforcement tracking and anti poaching operations.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Exactly. But also this book you can find it in PDF on internet so wonderful.

Ronald Waline  
You just have to type it up and you will find it cool. I'll put the links to that as well in the show notes.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Okay, and the last one that is to give us also the English version in this feature of tracking is this one from Bob Carss.

Ronald Waline  
Guide to tracking following tracks trails and signs concealment night movements and all forms of pursuit.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
You have some good SAS tips and tools of the trade, tricks on the trade as well inside this book, and you have also a huge part of which is dedicated to stalking, how to leave minimal tracks that and a good part on profiling to which is more closer to forensic to FBI, CIA and so on. Sometimes tracking and forensic can work really good. Yes.

Ronald Waline  
Very good. Awesome. Well, thank you for that Kyt. That's very helpful. And how can people further connect with you and your work and the things you're doing?

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Well, let me say that I'm too much on the web, I even annoy myself. Too much everywhere.

Ronald Waline  
Well, that means you're very accessible to everyone else. So that's a good thing.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Where you are too much you know, around? We say you're like the parsley, because we put the parsley are quite everywhere when we have a to, to season meat. Yeah.

Ronald Waline  
Is that Italian? Is that an Italian saying you're like the parsley? 

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Yes, you're like the parsley. You are everywhere.

Ronald Waline  
That's good. I like that.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
And by the way, I have an official website, which is called thewayoftracking.com. On that website that you can find all the links to LinkedIn to Twitter. No, Twitter's not just to our Facebook I'm sorry, Instagram, my YouTube channel and all my publication so and so on. If you're subscribe to my website, I will send you a password to access the download area where you can download something like 70 between books, and memoirs and documents about it. Let me stress that they aren't declassified at all. So they are public resources that just found on the internet and just grabbed them and put it all together. You know,

Ronald Waline  
That sounds like a great resource. That's perfect. Everything in one package.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Yeah, exactly. And that's it, because this is my, my channels. And if you want to give a look to Mike Hull website, that is MikeHullstrackingschool.com but you obviously find the link on my website as well.

Ronald Waline  
Perfect. Well, I'll have all that in the show notes. And thank you so much Kyt for coming on and telling us more about tracking and appreciate all your knowledge and your work online and elsewhere. And we'll look forward to connecting with you again in the future.

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Thanks a lot. I'm also available for any Italian cuisine lessons, pasta, lasagna and I know, whatever you have in mind that we can do it together. 

Ronald Waline  
Sounds great! 

Kyt Lyn Walken  
Okay, thanks a lot. You I really appreciate you inviting me for this podcast then and I say hello to all the people ----

Ronald Waline  
Awesome thanks Kyt.