Hey everybody, how's it going? This is Seth Williams. You're listening to the REtipster podcast. This is episode 210. Show notes for today can be found at retipster.com forward slash 210. And today I'm talking with Robin Seib. So Robin has been running onlinelandmarket.com and it's a website where he does one thing, he sells land and he sells it on behalf of other land investors who just don't want to do the work of selling or don't have time to do it. It's kind of a nice alternative on the dispossession side of the business. And selling land is something people have been having a harder time with this past year. And even if it wasn't something that people were having a hard time with, it's always an important thing to talk about in the land business. Because if you don't have the ability to sell or dispose of your properties quickly, things are going to be a lot harder than they need to be. After all, this is where all of our paydays come from. So we're going to talk with Robin about his secret sauce for selling land. We'll talk about which listing sites are the most and least helpful and worth the time to list on, how to deal with Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, all kinds of stuff. We're going to get into it right now. So Robin, welcome. How's it going? Hey, Des, thank you for having me. And to be honest, it's amazing. When I started my land flipping journey in 2020, I started listening to your podcast and now I'm on here. Look at that. You're on a great show and you have this radio broadcaster voice, right? I love that. I could just probably play that for my baby to sleep sometimes to just calm them down. So thank you for having me today, man. Thanks so much. You know what's funny about that? Whenever I hear my voice in recordings, I can't stand it. It drives me crazy. But I have learned how to take this voice and kind of mold it into something that's somewhat palatable to the ear. So I appreciate you saying that. I love Batman. It's good. Yeah. So let's get a quick history lesson for you. So when did you first get into the land business? How did you even discover this land world? Here's a brief bio, right? I'm born and raised in Germany, which you hear probably from my weird accent. We live in Spain and in Dallas. My wife and I are married. We have a nine-month-old daughter, cute little dog, and we're traveling between the continents because we're both big-time travelers. I'm in land since 2020 and before that you know like I'm an entrepreneur of 15 years. I was always in the real estate industry first on the construction side and service side like I mean Germany we do a little bit different construction but we had an engineering firm and funding firm and like a window and doors company and like all that kind of stuff which drove me crazy because 2018 I ended up in burnout right like I was pretty bad man like I was three three months out of life you can't imagine right like where you met we met a couple of times right and normally i have energy and i'm always like let's go right and there was three months just lying in bed like i didn't know what to do so i got out of that stole my my my construction company i had at that time and uh just like said okay what do you do now and uh frank came up and said hey. You want to do real estate investing with me? I said, cool. Yeah, let's do it. What do we do? He said, like, let's flip houses. Okay, let's flip houses, right? So we started 2018 flipping houses in Germany, which is completely different here. We don't have direct mail. We don't have data. It was just like, man, you need to build relationships with realtors. You just need to play a different game, right? So our first year, I think we flipped 100 houses. In our second year, we flipped almost 300 houses. And with all that, that means, right? like dealing with contractors again and contractors have this specific language right i mean you know you deal with contractors all day and when you ask them when are you finished they tell you tomorrow but they never exactly define what tomorrow they mean the tomorrow tomorrow in a week in a month in a year in a decade you know after two years doing that i felt pretty burnout burned out again or was pretty close and i promised myself you will never get never get back in this dark place so So I went on a two-month leave to Australia, right? I had the opportunity to swap houses with some guys. And I was two months on the beach, hanging out, kite surfing, right? Swimming with dolphins, like all this amazing stuff you do. I came back, said my partner, I'm out. He said, like, are you crazy? Are you kidding me, right? And yeah, I said, hey, I can't do this anymore. It's not good for my house. Yeah, okay. But look, before you drop out, this partnership there is like this guy coming from the U.S. talking about land. And you can flip land in the U.S. I said, okay, can I do that from my laptop? That was like my first question I asked him, right? He said, yeah, from my understanding, you just do it from a laptop because I had never been in the US. I was talking English pretty decent, but not on a business level, right? I was like, okay. Let me go to the demand. And that was Jack Bosch, right? So I think he made one event in Germany in 2020, February. I was sitting three days there. I said, hey, you know what? That sounds amazing. You can do it from the laptop. And when 10% of the outcomes that he is promoting here, I mean, you know how that is when you sit in a coach event, right? Like 10% of that is the truth. I want to do this. So enrolled in coaching. And then April 2020, COVID hit, right? So I couldn't even travel to the U.S., right? We couldn't even open bank accounts. And I took it from there. I need a year to do my first deal. Made like $0 in profit on that. Made everything wrong you can do wrong. But guess what? We figured it out. In 2021, it was 65 deals. In 2022, it was around 300 deals we did. And 2023, I think it was 450. And this year, probably, we will be involved in like 600 transactions. actions. I don't know where we'll be at the end of the year. Yeah, so that's a little brief hats up. And today, we sell land for other land investors. You mentioned that. We still run our wholesale business. I run the land fund where we buy notes and fund deals on hard money loans. Yeah, we have a development company, so we entitle deals for others. I don't do so much subdivites. I don't enjoy it so much, and I don't have really strong partners, but we do them. I I think this year we did five minors and eight, nine major subdivites with partners together. And I guess today we're a deal facilitator. This is what I am. You have the land deal and you don't know what to do or you're. Hanging around with that and we can help you selling it we can help you developing it we can help you funding it and this is what we do today wow i don't realize you were doing so much stuff you get this uh note buying thing and you got a website for that thing too what's that oh we do all of that's through the landpilot.com right we do that right now for the partners where we sell stuff too but um yeah it's an interesting thing man like i got introduced on the concept of private money and it's still like uh for me like alice in wonderland sometimes doing business in the U.S., right? Everybody says it's so regulated and restricted. Hey, you have never done business in Europe before, right? So then you know what regulations and restrictions are. And yeah, we funnel in the moment everything through the landpilot.com. We have a portal there you can log in, you can submit your deals or hit me up, right? Robin has onlinenetmarket.com where you have notes to sell or hard money loans to sell. I have personally a network of 250 private moneylenders I work frequently with where we funnel deals from all sides just to get it rolling. Because I feel, especially in this market, hard money is like, and owner financing is exit strategy is like a must. Totally. Well, we're going to get into all that. I'm really curious to hear about that. So focusing on this, the sales side of things with the online land market. So what gave you the idea to start focusing on this and start doing this on behalf of the land investors? Like when or why did that become a thing you decided to go after? It came out of the history, right? So I told a little bit about the amount of deals we did. and like you know i focused pretty early in like acquiring packages because i don't like the acquisition game of land let me tell you let me be honest about that i don't like talking to hundreds of sellers and getting that one deal out of them i said why don't we just talk to one that has like a lot of loss and why not this so this is how i learned about private money the first package was 144 lots in 24 counties in florida from one person from one person with one lender involved You said you bought this from a lender? No, I had a lender involved who borrowed me the money for that transaction. It was Christmas 2021. I was sitting at my parents' house, typing comms, making comms on 144 lots across the state. They were like everywhere. And there was everything from $5,000 lots to like $500,000 lots in there. But that guy just wanted to get rid of it. And I said, okay. That makes sense, right? Yeah, but the thing is, this whole transaction, I think I bought it for $300, and I was estimating to sell it off for $1.8,$1.9, so I thought it was a great deal. I ended up selling it for $3 million, selling off it for $3 million on the peak of the market, right? That's amazing. Yeah, but the thing is, how do you again there? Now you buy 144 lots. There is no buyer for 144 lots in a package. There are not that many mad people like I who take down the portfolio like this, so you can just wholesale that, right? So I needed to build a reliable sales process. I needed to build something like, how do you do due diligence on a scale, like on 144 lots? Because every day they're not in the market, right? And they're not there. How do you create listings? How do you list them, right? You can't just go to land.com and buy a 144 lot land.com subscription, right? Because it's just expensive, right? I hired a good CMO with a lot of experience with online marketing and sales team and realtors. And we built out this process really to do dispositions on a scale. But we started selling and people were seeing it. So then in that year, like a lot of people like, how do you do so many deals? So I do this and this and this. And can you sell my land for me? I said, yeah, straight over. We do 50, 50 profits. We did 65 JVs that year. And I don't like JVs. I mean, it depends who you're working with. But like I had this discussions, the people made like $50,000 of profit and they hold up the closing process because the FedEx receipt of $21.43 was not part of the calculation. Right. And so I said, okay, hey, I like that because obviously there's a need in the market that people don't want to do dispositions, don't want to just rely on realtors, right? They want to get a whole process done. They don't even want to take care of anything. Let's build a product out of that. And that was early 2023. So we started like formating like the land pilot. And yeah, what it is, it's like we take wholesale deals, lots of you own and just sell it for you on a commission base, like more or less, right? This is the business model behind that. And it came out of this necessity that I needed to sell packages, right? And test a lot around that. I got like a million questions right now. I'm going to try to get this made as I can. So I heard you say earlier, something about doing a 50-50 split on the process. But then I just heard you say it's sold on a commission basis. So like, how do you make money? Like how much do you get paid? What does it cost the operator to use you to sell their property? We started on a JV. It's too hard to maintain when you do hundreds of transactions. You just have three people just calculating deals. And today, it's a little upfront fee, which generally covers a couple of things we do in the process. Because when I take over a property, there are two, three things which are not negotiable. And so a wholesale deal, we pull a title commitment, not just a title search. We pull a full commitment. I want to know, as that guy who sells the property, does it sell tomorrow? Right like what happens when i sell tomorrow because i've i personally have been in a situation when you wholesale sit on the closing table you can't clear a b everybody is mad at you you don't make any money you get frustrated and all that right so this is what we do for our clients second thing is drone footage drone footage just like cut it our days on market by half like real property footage right like it's crazy what that did so there's a little upfront fee and then um we get a commission on the closing table which is anything between 12 and 20 percent of the sales price but we pay the realtor out of that right like so i always say take that what you would pay to a realtor anyway double it and that's what you pay to us so in terms of how you're paying for this drone footage or listing fees wherever you listed for sale is that what the upfront fees for yeah the upper phase around six hundred dollars right it varies a little bit there's a mini subscription, which is $149 a month. But we do, for example, a daily comps call. Our clients can come daily with us and comp their properties. We do that in front of them. Because I think that's one of the major issues we're facing. We've got a bunch of lots that we couldn't sell because the comps were not run right. There's a little bit of service around that because we just want to sell good deals because we make our money in the back end. So I'm an investor on the deal in that moment where I take it because I get my money when we close. Yeah. So this is a huge topic to spend a little bit of time on. So this issue of how you comp properties and even like looking back at that package of a hundred plus properties you bought for 300 grand, the ability to comp properties at all and get even close to an accurate number on that. How do you do that? Like, what is your process? Because this has everything to do with like, how much should you offer to buy the thing? And how do you plan out your profit and all this stuff? If you don't have a reliable way to do that, which can be a tricky thing with land, you can be in big trouble. So what is your reliable method? And yeah, just tell me about that. I agree 100% with you. I always say the sale starts with the comps we're on in the beginning. To be honest, we do it manually. I have a team of two people that comp properties like every day, and I train them every day. And I do it personally. I don't know on how many properties I looked in my career meanwhile, but it's probably a five-figure number. It's tough and tricky, especially when you don't know the area, right? When you would send me a deal, I don't know, I think you're somewhere in the north, like say you're in Michigan and you're in whatever county. And I don't know that county, right? You can go with averages and not what you see. And I think the tricky thing about land listing in the comping process is you just have two data points compared to houses, right? And houses, you know, it's that year. It has been remodeled that time. You have three bedrooms, two bathrooms. You have this veranda. You have this garage. You have like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you have literally two data points. The one is acreage. The second one is price. And the rest of the information you need to get out of the listing text and out of the pictures, right? Because in the pictures, you see other utilities. You maybe see what has been done in the past. So it's pretty weak. But normally, what we do is we go in that area, we look for comparable comps from our side, like four for sold comps and three for sale comps to build pricing scenarios where we see, okay, what is the trend in that area? Second, we look into the market too, like how many are listed, how many sold in the past 12 months, six months, 90 days, break that down, how is the market developed? This is what we do on our end right for every property when we onboard it and we have a second second comps confirmation when we engage the realtor right like for all of our clients we engage with the local realtor we have like a huge process in place to win this realtors um qualify them and um they always will have experience in land and um yeah then we ask them for for their opinion right because they are the local experts they're the people with feet on the ground right but the better you comp the more money you will make on the deal the better you will make offers you will know your boundaries what you can make on offers right and not be in there and interesting thing what we've seen throughout this year was you know like everything you list today probably your comps are half a year old because you made that offer half a year ago but like half a year later now we see a double in days on market that's what's happened in the last here, double days on market across the country, 20% price decreases across the country, right? Run your comps. I guess that's like the biggest thing I can tell you. Run your comps today before you start any listing activities and be really specific, spend some time. And what I see a lot with land investors, I don't know if you see that too, they do deals everywhere, right? They do one here, one here, one there. I still do until today deals in like six or seven counties, right? Like Five of them are in Florida, two are in Texas, and I've been there. I know every road. I know every subdivision. So when you send me something, I will know what's going on there, right? So I think that's the second tip. Like when you have good areas, get deep, go deep, learn to know, spend some time there, meet some realtors, some builders and all that, that you know how is your area working, right? So like when you go through your first round or two of looking for these comps, the sold comps, the listed comps and all that stuff, But then you end up talking to a realtor and it sounds like that's kind of the real test to be like, how close were we based on what they said? What if you find a realtor and you don't agree with what they're saying? You ascertain that, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about. We trust our comps more. Or maybe a better question is like, in the end, when you go full circle and these things actually sell, how often do you end up being wrong, either too high or too low with your valuation? Meanwhile, we're pretty good at that. I think we have like an over 90% success rate. I mean, we talked maybe about a 10-15% difference, which is normal, right? I mean, in the beginning, that was a huge deal, right? Because we just relied on the land investors, right? This is like what you learn when you start selling for other people is you have a completely different underwriting than they have. And I see that a lot of people just throw whatever contract they have out there or they buy the property blind and then sit on something which is a liability and not an asset, right? And this is why I can just everybody encourage is really spend some time on your research before you list something. Because no matter if you do listing with us or you do it by yourself, you start spending time. It costs you money. You start listing. It costs you money. And all the hope you destroy when you get to the closing table or when you don't generate leads and then you need to reduce pricing, pricing, pricing. This is the most important thing that you know from the beginning on what's my property worth and dive into it. And like you said, it's a weak topic. Like, there's no 100% reliable data. You can just throw it out there and then see, like, how's the market reacting on your pricing for this property, right? Yeah. So when you get a property, I don't know, let's just hypothetically say it's 10 acres. It's got really unique characteristics. Maybe it's, like, on a hill next to a lake with nice road access. And, like, there is literally nothing like that in a 10-mile radius. Like, it just doesn't exist. It's one of a kind. How do you go back into that and figure out what a real market value is? Like when there are no comps, you just skip forward to the realtor and just hope they're right? We do our first round of comps and we rely on that before we take over a deal. Like I said, as soon as I start marketing, I put money in that deal personally, right? Like when you give me a lot, I sell it for you. And the moment we submit it, I burn all the money because the $600 just for drone footage, it's gone, right? Like when we see, hey, the comps are not working out, then we pass. When we see unique features like water, like view, I mean, we truth all of that in due diligence. We look on focal, right? We look on features in the area, like what's unique about this property, right? The sort of due diligence team does already because they give with the due diligence a framework to our marketing team, how they market. Then we rely on the realtor, right? And it depends on the price point too. When it's a $15,000 property, we just say, you know what, there's not enough spread. Let's go away. But when it's a $150,000, $200,000 property, it's a nice profit for our partner, nice money we make too. So we dig a little bit deeper. We put some more effort. But I think the 100% security of what's going on, you get it in that moment where you hit the market and see what the market gets back. Because the property will sell for three things. right it's when the price matches the condition of the property and the demand in the market, and most of the time when you don't have the price right right then you have a condition issue or demand issue right and this is what you need to solve yeah gotcha so are there ever times when you don't hire a realtor or is it just across the board every time there will always be a realtor involved we don't do it for properties under ten thousand dollars because it's not worth it to sell of these properties through their channels and find a realtor but over 10 12 000 so 10 000 is our like limit to the bottom but over that you always need to see it like this a realtor is two things right it's a marketing and a sales channel so you have somebody with feet on the ground that knows the local environment that has buyers that has the mls right when you have a good realtor was good buyers list, but let's be honest, that's 0.001% of that realtors really know their stuff, especially in land. So when you have a good realtor, you just have like a lot of advantages. When you're in the land business, you want to turn fast, no matter if you're wholesale or if you buy it, because when you sit on inventory, it costs you money. So it's about bringing your days on markets down. And with the realtor, you can, even your online leads, you need to qualify them. You need to generate them. And when they're qualified, you match them with your realtor. And what other conversation is that, that you have like, hey, Seth, you know, the property is beautiful. Here, I sent you a spreadsheet. there is a Google Maps link. Just go out there on the weekend with your wife where you can say, hey, Seth, no big deal. Meet my buddy, Kevin. He's our local realtor on the property Saturday morning at 10 a.m. Complete different traffic, right? Like you are not suddenly the wholesaler anymore, like have no trust and all that, right? You have somebody there. And the realtor is happy too, right? When you structure the marketing around them. So I think it's a big, big plus to hire them. Where they struggle with this owner financing, there's a lot of explanation around that you need to do with them. But other than that, I would say that's my first recommendation, by the way, when you market, you probably hire a realtor and spend that time on finding them because it's the sales and the marketing channel at the same time. Yeah, that's another good tangent to this whole conversation of value and selling that kind of thing, because a realtor plays just a crucial role, not only in understanding the possible value, but also like getting the things sold and all this stuff. And I'm sure with all the realtors you've worked with, you've probably encountered your share of bad realtors, right? I mean, that's just inevitably going to happen. I guess in order to find a good realtor or when they turn out being bad and you look back on it, what ends up being the thing that you could have caught to tell, okay, they're not a good realtor. Like I shouldn't hire them. In hindsight, it's obvious, but I didn't realize it back then. Is there any like a red flags you look for to know that you're getting a bad one or a good one? I think the most important thing is and probably you have heard that a lot, right? That they answer the phone when you call them or reply to you in a timely, reasonable matter, right? And other than that, we look for some experience and we ask them the question, can you reach that property in 24 hours when somebody wants to scale your unemployment with you? And we ask a little bit about their land background too, right? And we have, meanwhile, an internal realtor team that hires that realtors, right? Because they go as like an agent to an agent and speak as agents to agents, right? Like it's one lady, she just like gets that up and she knows how agents think, how they are, right? Like what they're looking for. She can have the conversations with the brokers and all that was probably hold up, right? This is all like things you need to think about. But generally, you find a realtor for every property when you did your homework on the AB end, right? The contract is the most important thing you need to have with your seller in place when you're a wholesaler. and that that contract has EMD and closing dates, right? They want to have some money in there. And then it's just like, who doesn't find a realtor didn't search hard enough. Like we have a system meanwhile, but until we had that, we called 90 realtors an average for each property until we found the right one. Yeah, wow. How long do you have to commit to these realtors? Like, is it six months? Do you have any wiggle room to get out of that sooner? Yeah, we have six months, right? And we always have a cancellation policy when our property gets canceled right like with our partners then it gets uh gets to gets canceled you know we're so confident we just like put a club we did that in the beginning we put a clause in there like um that we can um cancel any time for non-performance there was a certain amount of leads not hit i think that was the first version we just put it on the leads and after that i said you know what we'll we need to provide leads for the realtor that are qualified that they have fun because when you run the MA, let's say it's a $50,000 loan transaction. Let's say you pay 10% in commission to your agent, right? That's the sales agent. Now there's the whole MA regulations, meanwhile, which like complicates the game even more. We were a niche with land wholesaling or land selling before already. Now it gets even harder because the old rule was like the seller agent pays the buyer's agent. A lot of realtors still do that, right? So run the mess, $50,000, 10%, right? It's $5,000. Now he needs to share his $5,000 with the other agent, $2,500. Now they need to give maybe, let's say, 40% of that to the broker. So that's $1,000. So they end up with $1,500 in their pocket on these transactions. With the same amount of work they would have done was a $300,000,$400,000, $500,000 house. And this is how you need to think, I think, when you engage realtors. How can I make their life easier? How can I make them want to engage with me? How can I serve them? And I think that's anyway something you should always do. And this is what we have, I think, really good meanwhile, really providing them with value. We prepare all the listings for them. We give them everything they need. We do the due diligence. We give them the financing terms. We provide them with leads. We warm other realtors in that area for them and say, hey, that's our agent. Here's a property for sale. We give them emails for their buyer's list they can send. So for them, it's just plugging in, click and play, waiting until the phone rings because everything else is prepared. And they just can really concentrate on one thing, what they're there for. To meet sellers on the property and sign contracts. This is how you need to see that. Yeah, totally. How often does it happen where an operator brings a deal to you and they're like, I've got this property, it needs to sell for this price. And it's just, it's either a little off or it's way off. Do you like go ahead and list it at that price? Or do you say, no, we're not going to do that. If you're going to list it with us, you have to lower it to this. Yeah. A ladder? yeah so uh we we give the recommendation that's uh also like when we onboard that property around the comms check and when we check the comms and we find it off we play it back right say hey we can't do it lower the price renegotiate with the seller do whatever but we can't list it like because like i said i put money in that deal in the moment where i onboard it so we can put a price breaking point on there and that's what it is like and you can be grateful when you find out at this point right because you don't spend any hours dollars and hope anymore on that property where you're just like we made the mistake of front clubs which is totally fine that happened to all of us right yeah now you mentioned seller financing a little bit earlier in getting realtors to work with that i guess a couple questions here uh the first thing is how important is it that the operator is willing to sell the seller financing like how big of a deal is that does it increase the speed to sell by two times or something or just their willingness to go there. Is that a big deal? Yeah. If they're not willing to do that, you'll still do it, right? Yeah, we would still do it, but we encourage them to do it because through the network, we have in the back end, through all funding sources, we buy notes on the closing table. Right? And in the end, it's just a numbers game. So first of all. You in the moment, like properties under $50,000 sell 80% on owner financing. So when you don't know if you're owner financing, like you just like have an 80% smaller buyer school. Yeah. You said that's $50,000 in them? Under $50,000, right? And then it gets like 50 to $150,000. You have around 50% of the transactions. Over that, over $150,000, most of that is cash. Let's be honest. These are hunting properties, recreational tracks, luxury tracks for luxury properties. But when you're in the range of properties up to $150,000, it's a must to offer on a financing. Everybody's talking about realtors and title companies. You need your team. I think in today's market, you need a team of hard money landers and note buyers. And to be honest, when you create notes that make 30% and 15% ROI a year, I guess there are a bunch of people in your network that, this is where I would ask first, that would take over that notes and get paid every month, right? You need a money team too in this market, right? And I mean, for our clients, we can solve that through the network I have and through our land fund. That's a secret sauce. like just like to bring your turnaround times down and sell it on time right yeah and on that whole note so like when we say seller financing what are we talking about does this mean nothing down like payments over 10 years or is it like 50 down 12 percent interest like when you hear seller financing what are the numbers that pop into your head in terms of what those terms are supposed to be okay everything up to 10 12 000. You want to have $99 down, like nothing down, and you want to structure your payment around $2.50 a month. People financing that land, they are in need of something. They don't have huge down payments and all that. And you do a go for a land contract, contract for deed, because it's easy for you to foreclose on. You collect the payments, they default, you just market it again. It's a nice, nice money. And man, I hold over 200 of this little notes and they're nice, right? Because they just cashflow you every month. When they default, you just send it for your national letter and you market it again and sell it to the next person. I'm actually curious, on those smaller deals, what percentage of those are sold with cash? Because I know some land investors who, if it's below 20 grand or 25 grand, like they're not even going to consider seller financing. Like you shouldn't be buying land if you need seller financing for that. Like they take that approach. So like, are there a lot of cash buyers for those cheaper properties? At 10,000, 12,000, I tell you they sell to 90% from tariffs. It's like ridiculous. I don't know why, right? Like, because the people come in and I see a lot of window shoppers buying these properties, right? I mean, the nature of like an owner financing seller is that you want to have in your contracts like clauses, like or notes like clauses that you can just use it as rural vacant land that people can't change anything without written permission. So then who are the buyers of this, right? There's some people that want to invest in that area, right? however you know that. There are people that maybe want to. Like relocate there one day or people that just like shop around and say oh i can own a piece of land for 99 and 200 bucks a month for 10 years nice let me do that right but that's like what we figured out it's 99 down around 200 more or less that's what everybody can afford right, and i mean we're charging interest rates around 15 no matter what state it is we never got through that produced like hundreds and hundreds of notes so far so just like be like that because like Somebody who is defaulting on a $10,000 land will not sue you because he doesn't have $200 for a payment, so he will not have any money for an attorney, right? But over that, how we structure it, like $15,000 plus, you get an acceptance problems with the contract for deeds and line contracts, right? People want to have ownership. And how we normally structure that is mortgage and note or deed of trust and note, depending on the state, right? When you want to work with note buyers on these deals, you want to have 20% down. That's what they're looking for, right? Do you want to have any kind of a double-digit return? I do 15%, but it could be 12 or 11 because the note buyer doesn't look so much on the interest rate every year. They look like how much do they buy your note discounted that they reach their ROI they want to make, right? So 20% down, double-digit interest. And you always want to have a loan servicing fee included, right? Anything between 35 and 45 dollars in your paperwork because a professional note buyer will offload their papers to like a note service when you hold the note by yourself by the way that's great when you do 45 dollars a month it's 45 dollars in your pocket for setting up your landloans.com or whatever that is right yeah interesting thing about that so i interviewed pat porter he's a pretty well-known land real estate agent in louisiana and works in several states. And we got into this issue of seller financing and how it's hard to get bank financing for land. And he was like. What are you talking about? Like 90% of our buyers get bank financing. And it was just totally backwards from everything I'd ever heard. I was like, what? But apparently a lot of banks will end on that higher value stuff, whether it's like hunting land or farmland. It probably, I'm sure it depends on the uses and the borrower and their financial wellbeing and all that stuff. And he didn't tell me this, but I'm half wondering if he has like a bunch of different bankers in his back pocket where it's like, hey, you need cash? Talk to this banker. They lend on land. I almost wonder if that might make sense for you to do. Like, get a bunch of these bankers that you know are going to lend on land just to make it easy, get people's cash. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. But, you know, like, as soon as you get into that and that thing, you have an underwriting problem, right? Somebody financing a $20,000 property with you will probably not have the credit score, nor the bank industry, nor the job, nor any kind of financial statements that will allow him to take $20,000 out, right? Yeah, and I think with Pat, a lot of his properties are the higher end, like, probably 50 grand and over range. So that's his frame of context where he's saying that kind of thing. I don't want to speak for Pat. Pat, if you're listening to this, sorry if I'm getting this wrong. But I believe that's where he was coming from. Yeah, no. I mean, it's available, especially there's smaller credit unions to do that. We're working on a project right now. It's 45 acres here in Texas on the lake. And the local bank will finance it, right? But, hey, you need to go through a loan approval process. You need to bring your financial statements. You need to have somebody personal guaranteeing the loan, right? It's just like the huge headache and for the buyer I think the great thing is when you structure your owner financing we don't underwrite the buyer we underwrite the property this is how I look on that the buyer like when you have 20% down you already have 20% equity in that deal does that make sense, Then when you sell the note on a little discount, then you have like 30% or 35% equity in that deal when that buyer defaults. We work on all the paperwork with our buyers most of the time with the deed in lieu. That means in case they default, you don't need to go through a foreclosure process. They sign that with closing. And when you define in the note, hey, when you're three months behind, we can execute that and we get control over the property. And suddenly when it's a hundred thousand dollar property you're sitting on you bought it maybe for 65 the note right so as a note investor now i have control for 65 000 over a hundred thousand more assets so i will get my money back right but as a land investor like this 20 and then being prepared a little bit discounting the note right so i would say put your own financing price a little higher than the cash price this is how we advertise a lot of stuff hey we sell for a hundred thousand dollars was twenty percent down in this other monthly terms or get a twenty percent cash discount and buy it for 80 yeah my uh friend peter nukisani and you might know him so he does a very similar thing where he buys lots of land from wholesalers usually smaller cheaper stuff and sells it with owner financing and there's always two prices on his listings a common thing that i saw on his website is when you buy with seller financing the price is basically twice as much when you consider all the interest, all the payments, all this stuff. And if you buy it for cash, it's half of what it ends up being for the owner financing version. So, yeah. And, you know, when you're structuring the notes right, right? Like I personally, I just hold the small notes. I sell all of the big ones to have cash flow in the company. I mean, what we do all costs money. And when you structure just the deal right, right? And you have this $100,000 and you would sell it cash for $80,000, you buy it for $50,000. It's almost the same, right? Like when you sell that note, let's say for $65,000 or something like that, instead of $80,000, right? Like you have $85,000, you're receiving cash, a little bit more closing costs, but often the times it ends up the same or leaving a little bit more than when you would have made a cash sale, right? You have more buyers. It makes more sense. Everybody is happy. And I love this win, win, win, win, win situations, right? That are created out of this, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. So looking at your website here, again, onlinelandmarket.com. So like, I see you have listings here, but you're also listing this with realtors. So like, do you always make a practice on listing stuff there along with what the realtor does? Or are these just the ones that you don't use realtors for? We do both. So when you onboard a property, right? Like we do all the underwriting. We talked about that a lot, like the comms, the title commitment. We check your contract too, right? Because we just figure it out. like hey a lot of the contracts we receive are just crap we do due diligence and in the end we order the drone footage and we prepare like five types of listings right when there's like a listing for the mls and one for facebook marketplace and one for our website and one for land.com and you know because we just split tested a lot what's working what's not when do you like facebook marketplace you need to list in a in a certain way that you don't get banned permanently land.com we made a project with them we have a pretty big subscription with them and like our leads drop by 50 and then we we. Made a project with them to what lists fast right like how can you do that and we start changing images and like looking like how many leads are generated and out of that we doubled the amount of leads in the end right so it's just five types of listing images we create and then man it's just a spread i'm a big believer in omni-channel marketing it's like we find the realtor right so we have the mls solved we have the local buyers this solved we listed on on land.com is for me like one of the strongest lead bringers in the industry right now a lot of people are like unhappy with it or whatever they just change their algorithm like google and facebook right so when they change their algorithm you need to do something we do i think landflip.com landsearch.com we list it um on our own website we run social media ads um on facebook instagram tiktok um we listed on instagram facebook and tiktok we do youtube um we do neighborhood marketing we do cash fires list marketing you send neighbor letters is like a standard thing you always do neighbor letters yeah so i guess if you end up finding the buyer and selling these things and a realtor's involved you end up paying that realtor's commission regardless of who ended up finding the buyer right yeah so here's the deal with that like we do all these amazing things We have like, we do email marketing, like everything you want to do, we do it. We do Facebook marketplace, like all that stuff, right? And now we have a gigantic funnel. We are out there in the world, right? And all these people come in. What I see people doing, now they drop off all this leads to a realtor. But all this online leads you generate, no realtor will deal with that. They will not call the people. Online leads, you need to engage them in 15 minutes. Otherwise, they're dead. This is statistics week. 85% less is the chance that you ever reach somebody after 15 minutes. So that means when you spend $10,000 in marketing and you don't crack your 15 minutes, you have like $8,500, which are just gone. Right so we take all these inbound leads we qualify them on time we have an in-house sales team. And now here there's a couple of different scenarios right we reach out um it's most of the time an appointment center that qualifies the buyer meanwhile it's an ai but that qualifies the buyers right so when they're qualified they get an appointment schedule with our sales rep and the sales rep then goes deeper into that right like hey blah blah blah blah and if they really want to buy the property our sales rep takes that hot lead that's qualified that knows everything already and schedules an appointment for the realtor so he funnels that lead to the realtor that meets the people on site and that vent closes right or sometimes they sell it on the phone too right and sometimes the realtor sells it through his sources so we have three scenarios in all scenarios we always pay the realtor right like even when we sell it on the phone they still get a commission it's a little bit lower than when they are involved but when we sell it on the phone because they had work and when you always give them something they did work in between that they didn't sell it right it's just like not therefore but you want to add them as part of your team because with the next sale and it will need a realtor right and again that's true quick question i appreciate you talking about that engaging the buyer within 15 minutes i think that's a really important point for a lot of people to to understand when you say engage the buyer, what does engage mean? Is that just like replying to the message or is it a phone call or email or just something to show that you're alive? It's both. You want to actually start a conversation. This is what the engagement means. I'm happy you clarified that. So, Of course, when somebody is scrolling through a.m. Saturday night, you will not call them because probably he lies on the bed next to his wife or the wife lies next to her husband or whatever it is. You don't want to call him. So in after hours, we have like a text message chat bot, which is like an intelligent AI whatever bot, right? And he starts the conversations to qualify them with the goal to scale you an appointment. If it's in normal times daytimes like nine to seven i think it's in the moment or nine to eight we just call them right away in just 15 minutes this is another fascinating thing this uh conversational ai bot that qualifies the buyers so is this a bot that you created and like how does this work does it text them or is it like hooked up to facebook messenger or tell me more i want to know about that okay we can have a deep dive about ai right now but i'm the wrong person to talk about that, but how it technically works, right? In the end, like AI is about prompting, right? This is what we know. You need to have prompts for everything, you know, for chat GPT. And in the same way, you can build a prompt for like a conversational AI tool, right? That you can teach things, like what to ask, how to reply, like where to find things, connect them with your database. Like our AI bot can talk with our database. So when you call in, they can scan the database and you give them a couple of keywords. Hey, I'm looking for this two acres in Lehigh Acres, Florida. It can identify that. It's a script in the back end, right? It's a script you would give your appointment to do in a really advanced way. And then you just have a software executing that. And there are different ones. I think we're using Blend AI right now for that purpose. And the interesting thing is, I was just thinking, okay, well, it's just a script. Why don't we give the script a text message bot too? that is like talking like the voice bot just like as the texter does this only work with texting or does it work with like literally any written medium like if somebody sends an email will it reply to the email like where does it not work i guess it's texting and calls right so it's conversational AI means for me like it's it calls you and to be honest it's crazy amazing like so it calls you with like an audible voice that you hear an actual voice it's like a voice calling And to be honest, the technology so far. People don't even realize it's like so fluent and so fast and so nice like people don't even realize that they're talking to an ai right now right and it's an inbound call so you don't have any compliance issues right like it's an inbound lead it's an opted in lead so you call them say hey i'm your smart assistant sofia and like i just want to talk to you inquire for this and this property it's like your appointment center calling somebody right like your appointment instead of texting somebody you'll be a doing that but i mean this ai you teach it once and it's working 24 7 and then you can script again the calls and let's just like go through that and let's do smarter people than i do but i would spend my money there because like this ai developers you can build something out like this for two three four five thousand dollars but when you spend five six thousand dollars in marketing maybe a month right like it's it's the thing you can do And you can also integrate that on the acquisition site, right? That's what we do too. Just like to be fast of service, right? So is this bot, is it effectively just getting some standard questions answered just to make sure that the buyer fits a certain profile? Like whatever the questions would be, but they just want to make sure that you're talking to a real legit buyer who actually can do something. Yeah. I think we ask for money. We ask like, hey, when are you able to visit the property? Can you go there? Like, why are you buying that property? It's like five questions, I think, they try to get out of there. And when data are all green, they schedule automatically. They link with the calendar of the sales rep, and they put an unemployment on the calendar. It's pretty amazing, man. It's like, when they showed me that, I was like, are you kidding me? That's crazy, right? I remember hearing a lot about this like a year ago, and then it just kind of stopped. And I think it's because, what is it, the TCPA or whatever the government agency is, says that you can't use this for cold calling. But you're right. Like, this isn't cold calling. this is somebody who reached out to you first. So like, and I don't know what the laws are. Don't quote me on that, but it. Sounds like there's definitely a place for this. You don't hear about that anymore because nobody's talking about dispositions and land. That's like an industry problem, I think, right? Like, everyone's talking about acquisition and what you can do. I can get more deals. I mean, like, nobody's doing, what do you need to do to the back end? There is not, like, I was with Kendall, you know, Kendall too, right? I was Kendall on the podcast and said, Robin, I never thought about putting a budget on dispositions. Like, and that's what it is, right? You need to budget dispositions. You need to think about them. And like we have opted in leads we interact with the swarm leads people gave the consent that we can contact them because they are inquired for one of the properties we're selling so like there's no big deal compliance wise it's no no no big issue right yeah yeah i think you're right uh acquisitions has been the talk that everybody's getting after but i think that may be changing uh at least the past couple land events i've been at dispositions is where people feel are feeling the pain the most at least right now in this point in time i think it's just been so easy for so long that when there's even the slightest bit of slowdown, people are like, whoa, you know, everything's the sky is falling. Whereas like when I got into land, like selling was the hardest thing ever back in 2009. Like it was the norm for stuff to sit on the market for nine plus months. So I'm totally comfortable with it. But a lot of people who got into this in 2020 and after it's like a new thing for them. So I think so. Yeah. I am curious. How often does it happen where like a property just won't sell when you're listing it and like what do you do like maybe it's got some weird problem like no access or wetlands or there's like some obvious problem with it, do you just kind of go back to the operator and say sorry it's been six months we can't do it you're on your own do you just kind of let them re-up and list it for as long as possible or how do you handle those issues when properties sell really slowly we filter that before you mentioned two obvious reasons wetlands no access. When we see that, we stay away from it. We don't list it because it's so hard to sell it. I think, and this is where I want to encourage everybody, when you buy a piece of land, when you acquire it, when you have it, look as a buyer on that. We were looking this morning. We run every day a comps call on my name in the morning when people ring the deals, right? And I pull my, and I run them, right? So I pulled it up. I look at this. It's Michigan, right? It's like a beautiful property on the first side, like beautiful trees, five acres, like out of the... That's what you want. And I had like on land ID, the wetlands filter, it's 90% wetlands. I said, you know what? I will stay away from it. Like, look here where they build houses. Everywhere is high and dry, but nowhere where it's wetlands. The only chance you really have is to make a quick shot on the neighbors and see if they want to buy it. But other than that, that's not a deal, right? Same for road access, right? I mean, you can get road access. You can get three easements. I'm like right now in the deal in Florida, we're in there for two and a half years because the court appointments are like so so hard to get and all that right i just stay away from that and so that that we do a really good underwriting with the comps in the back and the front end i mean properties don't close most of the time because the comps don't know right right you have a condition issue which we find out pretty soon right because we have always somebody walking the property in our due diligence process too and the third thing is title issues and we solve all that things pretty well up front. So like in the beginning, it happened a lot and then we learned, right, and evolved for our customers because you and me both want deals that sell. So you're doing like a title search on properties before you list them or how do you know about these title issues? Title commitment. So we go to actually a title company and say, hey, I want to close on a property just. Get me a title commitment when i'll close tomorrow with you what will be on there what do we need to solve i mean land titles you know that probably better than anybody else like it was before that i think two out of ten which are have non-solvable title issues sometimes they are solvable but they're economically not solvable does that make sense it doesn't it doesn't make money-wise sense right so you basically just preemptively get that title commitment like you're not actually going to close but just like hey when this sells in six months we're going to go with you giving the title commitment now and then that's how you can see without paying anything up front right yeah that's that's it right that's part in the fee we charged up front right like when that falls out like we cover that from there but then you know right and don't burn money on the way right that's how you always need to see that always when you touch things you burn money right and we want to prevent our partners from burning money because we burn money with that that's just like the like the thing right yeah for sure so you mentioned a while back that like you post videos on tiktok and youtube and instagram and all this stuff and this idea of video how important is video what if you could get only a video or only pictures i know it's a ridiculous question because that would never happen but just trying to gauge like which do you think is more important and how big of a role does video play these days in selling land that's a hard question we never made a test on that probably should do that i just think you know like marketing needs to be emotional you're a. Big people by their emotions or you can show a video like it's moving pictures you can show around you can put some music on that so because you know with land you don't have this like personal attachment like with houses like we're closing on a house this friday right we have a personal attachment we're gonna live there we're gonna raise our daughter there right like with a piece of land there is not so you you need to bring that kind of emotion somehow in there right it's attention seeking i don't know if we ever directly sold something through that videos, but the people come in your universe. You make them attentive to yourself. You see, oh, that guy has nice lots. Oh, I want to have a look. Oh, new videos. Oh, I'm looking in that area. Look, that lot looks nice. And it's always about competition, too. When you do better stuff than your competition, who do they trust more? I'm in a mastermind and some of the biggest marketing agencies out of the U.S. Is there. And people have a trust problem nowadays. They don't trust media anymore. So you need to even do more that they trust you. And with a video, with moving pictures, with real footage of the property, you solve that trust issue because suddenly you're not like a voice on the phone, right? We're doing a test with our sales team right now that we schedule out Zoom calls for that with the buyers. And it's running for a week now and a lot of people like it, right? Like, hey, let's hop on a call real quick. Like I can show you around the property on the screen and we can see each other. It's a completely different level of trust. It's not just a voice calling you on the phone. You don't have a face, right? Yeah, it's about that. We think a lot of that about building trust with the buyers, right? And a video is a great way of doing. Yeah, that would be interesting if you can ever set up some kind of tracking to figure out, and maybe you already have some insight in this, but like when you consider, okay, I've got this listing we're posting on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok and lane.com and Facebook marketplace and then the MLS and then this and that and on and on it goes. If you could only list in one of those places, besides the MLS, what would that one place be? What do you get the most bang for your buck? It depends on the property type. Let me say it like this. But the lead sources that make the strongest difference are Land.com and Facebook Marketplace. It shifted a lot, right? Last year, we sold like 65% of our properties with the realtor in the end, comes through a source from the realtor. This year, it shifted. like in the other way around it's like we sell 70 directly 30 through the realtors and then in the past two months we shifted the realtor model a little bit provided them with more leads to more advertising for them so it goes seems like when i look end of december it will be again a 50 50, but when we now look on this like 70 right it was like i looked on there once a quarter right because I always want to see a trend. From that transaction that sold, actually, it was... 35% from Lend.com, 30% from Facebook Marketplace leads, and the other 30% from everything else. I mean, buyers lists are pretty important because sometimes you funnel somebody from Lend.com for their property and they're in your email marketing and then they reach out in half a year. That's a statistic we have from leads coming from other sources. They stick with us half a year and then they buy. But Lend.com and Facebook Marketplace are the strongest sources for leads right now. What is what we see do you list stuff on land search and craigslist we do land search now um since like three weeks so i can't tell you anything about that we don't do craigslist we made a test on that on the bigger properties it didn't work out in any way on the smaller properties it worked out a little bit but the problem is was just like too much work to maintain it right you need to make like a hey how much effort do i pull up how much needs to generate right? And it was just not worth it. Yeah, I know. Because part of me always, when I think through those kinds of questions, I always wonder like, well, maybe it's one of those things where the grass is greener where you water it, you know? So like, yeah, land.com is doing well because you're putting a lot into land.com, you know? That's why I asked the question. But a few minutes ago, you were talking about how you send more leads to your realtors or you advertise. Do you ever like pay to boost ads or like do paid ads on any platform? We run like social media campaigns like meta and google ads right um for our bias lists right. Like when we have a subdivision we even like where you have 10 12 lots in one area we run a separate ad on them but like the better way we found out is running your bias lists and then doing a really good email marketing right on them is like the better way of doing it the more cost efficient way of doing that i think the problem with facebook marketplaces it's not a reliable scalable marketing source, right? Because they can just ban you any day. I mean, we met like last time on RJ's event, like the Land Investing Summit there. I talked to a couple of guys and they run 15 computers with C-Mobile boxes and what do I know and VPNs and all that stuff. And we try to do that too. Meanwhile, I run like an ambassador program, man. And this is how we solve that, right? Like, I mean, we have a pretty good guideline what we can do on Facebook marketplace and whatnot. So we just like find people that have Facebook marketplaces that want to spend a couple of extra, want to make a couple of extra bucks every month. And we pay them on a per-league basis and a little bit when we close on the property. That is our solution on that, right? I think it's 12 or 13 people right now that have Facebook marketplace because when they get banned, it's sad for them. But i have a pipeline with the next facebook marketplace the next facebook marketplace right yeah do you know what it is that's getting people banned yeah um it's certain keywords owner financing everything was finance it's like that it's using the wrong pictures a lot like you don't want to have a lot of advertising you want to have not more than three or five pictures is what we normally do and it's original pictures it's most of the time drone footage we try to. Use that right and we try to keep every account with not more than three to five land listings in the same time right um and we rotate them too and take them out like the intention of facebook marketplace is that you and me sell our crap out of our garage right and this is how you need to sell your land there do you ever post in buy sell facebook groups so i've heard sometimes that can be even more effective than facebook marketplace yeah we have like a team that's doing that too right as va's doing that you can't automate it it's like uh one person it's pretty strong strategy too you can't scale it that much too right like but when you're on yourself like you work one market two three markets that's what i would do man this is what i did in the beginning right it's like i'm really um being in in one market and you know the groups there and you know i was a lot in tallahassee in that area florida there's tallahassee garage sale and yard sale and whatever right. I am curious, what makes a good listing? And is there a difference between what makes a good listing on land.com versus Facebook? Like, is it just a copy and paste, same picture, same everything? Or if you see a terrible listing out there, what makes it terrible? There's probably a million different things. But what boxes do you have to check or what does it need to look like for you to know, yes, this is as effective as we can make it? I think real footage is the first thing, right? Um like you see a lot of land listings that are like this stock pictures from everywhere and. When it's not like drone footage right you can always get somebody local like walking the property making some pictures getting a good overview of the neighborhood where it is how it looks like right access to the property really important people when they go there they need to know where it is on land.com for example it's a lot of like real footage beautiful things like you know like the flyovers and showing the neighborhoods that works there you can't do that on facebook right on facebook you want to have three to five simple images show a little bit it needs to look a little bit sketchy and unprofessional right like because you want to be an unprofessional um reseller our website listing have like a lot of like you know the surroundings like different pins and all that like what you know from normal and listing a lot of advertising in the pictures too but on land.com that doesn't work people don't like it that much right so you want to have more of this of course you want to show the neighborhood a little bit like and what's where's the next walmart and all that but like you don't want to have like on everything hey this is a hundred thousand dollar property for eighty thousand dollars in cash i want to try you know like oh you have seen this ads right online.com you don't want to be flashy on your website you probably want to be like on facebook marketplace you don't want to be too flashy too because they will ban you even. If it works when you're flush you will generate more leads on facebook marketplace right i guess that's the question it's a lot of testing what works for you i guess too we'd still test all the time right but getting people and understanding of the property and where it is so i think i think the most important thing right i know one of the most annoying things for me when i'm trying to sell land is tire kickers just like answering endless questions for people who like aren't serious, they're not going to do anything, talking to him on the phone, he goes nowhere. How do you avoid these people? Or is there something you can say to get a buyer to commit to pulling the trigger? Or like, don't spend time in them until you know they're serious. And if so, like, how do you do that? I think the strongest question you need to ask is, when are you able to visit the property? Oh i need to see uh okay you're not qualified hey i sent you the thing bye bye go in my follow-up funnel right when people make an effort on visiting a land property seeing a realtor on the property or whatever then i think they're qualified also like the question hey are you am i interested in an installment um installment sale or i or you want to buy on terms so you want to you want to buy cash could you make the down payment like tomorrow after you visited the property right so you want to ask like how is their financial thing right and how urgent is it and are they willing to put some effort in i think this is how you qualify really fast and then you can say yes or no and i mean better you say no than yes to the to the wrong people right totally sometimes i'm selling properties to people who don't say it before they buy it they're in some other state like they're just kind of making some emotional decision to do it so like if i made them visit before talking more like that would kick out a qualified buyer is that always the right thing to ask or is there a different way you could phrase it or what do you think that's not black and white i guess right like but what is black and white right you need to maybe you need to work with like statistics like most of the time like the people will tell you i can do it i can't do it right i need to do some further investigation okay what does that mean so obviously let's see amount gets three questions answered the first is why do you want to buy the property why second is why not right like what would be like the reason. Why you wouldn't buy it and the third one is what do you and me. Need to do to get this deal going these are the three things and with that we have like a good like all-around pictures and then you test their level of commitment. And then of course build some urgency build some scarcity it's like friday coming up right or you you went over this websites there's just like two more things so well i should better grab it right and um. Play a little bit with that. Those are great questions. Appreciate that. Two more questions for you, and then we're done. Appreciate your time very much. So when I heard you talking at the land scaling summit, I think it was you, you said something to the effect of you should be doing deals where you have buyers. I'm wondering, how do you determine where you have buyers? Like what specifically do you look for to say, yes, there is officially enough buyers here to buy this type of property? Literally, the only thing we can really look on is the market itself, right? We always try to look into markets where you have a bunch of sold properties in the last 12 months, 6 months, right? Where you see something and you don't have more than that for sale. Always a little bit less, maybe 50%, 60%. Because then you know inventory will turn, right? I mean, there are websites where you can do that, right? Like, I don't know, Lot Hunt or Lennon sites or whatever. Where you can just see how fast is the market. And when you see, hey, you have like 30 properties sold in the last six months and you have like 10 listed and you see average days on market are 90, that lets it go, right? But don't go in areas where you don't see any stuff moving. We see like, you know, stuff in Florida that was gone in 30 days or in Texas like last year, it's now 60 days, right? When you go more rural in Tennessee, that was like 60 days before, it's now like 120 days, right? And what was on it 20 days before is probably 240 now, right? So you need to be prepared for that. And in the end, I think everything you do in business is go to that what buyers sell, right? I mean, you can't sell a freezer to an Eskimo, right? They don't need it. They just put their stuff outside, right? That's a classical thing. So you would sell them a heater, right? Like that's what they really need. And this is how you should think, I think about like, where do you go for, right? Yeah, totally. Totally. So last question. I know you mentioned you've got a cash buyers list that you market to. And I'm curious, what did the most active cash buyers look like? I don't know how much you've dived into this to really understand like the most active people who will buy the most stuff. But if you could paint a picture of who they are, how could we reverse engineer the process and find these specific types of people? So we work a lot with BuyerFinder on this from at least Jared, it right the buyer finder.io um you get the data out of there this is where we start our research and then we have like an ai tool that scrapes people like which i would have the same profession and or the same companies or whatever in that area and then we organize to reach out to them like literally always look what is your property type right like their mobile home properties their rv properties their hunting properties there are like all kind of different properties. Then it's just like you know like right now we're selling for some guys they 60 lots they are subdividers in mississippi right and i look at the products and these products are mobile home lots over and over so we started a massive reach out to the mobile home sellers in that area right like a clayton or whatever the representatives of clayton because these people have a product like a mobile home and they need land for it they organize like the whole financing of that thing They're like cash buyers, right? Like they organize the whole project for that end buyer. So always think about who would buy that loan. That can be a builder, a developer. That can be mobile home people. That can be RV people or whatever, right? No, awesome. Cool. Well, Robin, again, thanks for your time. Totally appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us. If people want to find out more about you, I know we've mentioned it a couple of times, but what are the different websites they should go to to learn more? If you're a land investor and you wouldn't like to work with us in funding or dispo or whatever else we run like every thursday community call um it's the landpilot.com we have an own facebook group come in there we're around like a thousand people in the moment, i'm it's pretty fun to call always 30 40 people we have brilliant people that come there and teach, the landpilot.com is like our center of everything like we have a portal in the back end where you can do your funding where you can do your dispositions and all that probably the best thing other than that like facebook is a good place to reach me right robin site or instagram that's where you get me send me a message there this is great we do we love to work with the line industry we love it thank you for having me fast you're a really good interviewer i think you have done that 210 episodes did i hear that right um and thanks so, thank you for everything you do for the community too i know that you're a huge pillar for every and each of us right yeah appreciate that if you want to check out the show notes for this episode So just go to retipster.com forward slash 210 or 210. That's where you can find links to all the stuff that Robin mentioned. And again, Robin, yeah, appreciate the kind words. Appreciate you talking to me today. And I hope the listeners out there learned a lot. I know I did. Yeah. Thank you so much. And thank you for listening, spending that like one and a half hours, Jesus. I know. Flew right by. Maybe one last thing. If you ever want to comp a property, we run a comps call every morning, right? It's on the land pilot. You can bring it there. We can talk your deals through because this is what we really want to do, all of us, is doing deals, right? So thank you for having me and talk to you soon.