"Faith, Freedom, and the Future: A Biblical Perspective on Culture and Society"

In this episode of Soaring in Health and Wellness, Dr. Steve Wells interviews Kevin Ritter, a historian, educator, and Washington County Commissioner, about the history and influence of socialism, communism, and Marxism. Ritter traces the development of socialist thought from the French Revolution through Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto and the rise of Soviet communism under Vladimir Lenin. He explains Marx’s theory of history and discusses his belief that socialism and communism seek to replace religious faith with a political ideology centered on the state rather than God. Throughout the conversation, Ritter argues that these systems diminish individual responsibility, private property, personal freedom, and religious liberty.

The discussion also explores the importance of understanding history, preserving individual rights, and remaining engaged in civic life. Ritter encourages listeners to educate themselves on political and economic philosophies, participate in the democratic process, and support leaders who uphold religious freedom and constitutional principles. Both Ritter and Dr. Wells emphasize the role of faith, prayer, personal responsibility, and informed citizenship in addressing cultural challenges and promoting a healthy, free society.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And thank you for listening to Soring in Health and Wellness with Dr. Steve Wells. Dr. Wells is a chiropractic physician with a passion to help individuals reach new levels in health and wellness. He's been involved in the health and wellness field for over 30 years. Dr. Wells received his Bachelor of Science degree from Old Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, with an emphasis in health and exercise science. He received his second Bachelor of Science degree in general sciences along with his Doctor of Chiropractic degree with others from Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport, Iowa. Soaring in health and wellness is a tool to help educate individuals reach new levels in health and wellness and the passion to live with a sense of purpose and vitality. Dr. Wills and his guests, ranging from doctors from all areas of healthcare, educators, nurses, personal trainers, counselors, and teachers, will discuss and inform you on how to improve all dimensions of wellness from a biblical worldview perspective with one goal in mind: seeing you soar towards optimal health and wellness. If you're ready, let's get started with today's program with your host, Dr. Steve Wells.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Welcome to another edition of Soring Health and Wellness. This series starts our third season for Soaring Health and Wellness, and today's guest is Kevin Ritter. And Kevin Ritter was born and raised in the Detroit area. He attended Central Michigan University of a baseball scholarship and graduated in 1990 with a double major in history and political science. He remained at CMU to complete a master's degree in political science in 1992. After three years working in private business in Washington, D.C., Ritter returned to Western Michigan University to pursue a PhD in modern European history. Just before graduation, he founded a sports marketing company called Coast to Coast Athletics and left the university. For the past 20 years, Ritter has lived in the Washington County, running this business and teaching history and government as an adjunct at several area schools. Ritter was elected to a four-year term as a Washington County Commissioner in the fall of 2018, and he continues to serve in this post today. Kevin's wife is a local attorney and the couple has two children, Liam and Anna.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Welcome to the program, Kevin. Thank you very much, Steve. Well, good morning and praise God. I'd like to thank Dr. Steve Wells for the opportunity to speak this morning. As Dr. Steve said, I've been teaching at the high school and college level for the past 25 years. During that time, I've met scores of wonderful young people raised by good Christian families. Nevertheless, during those same years, I've met very few students that I would describe as truly well educated. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not that they don't know anything, it's just that so much of what they do know is wrong. Certainly within the discipline of history, which is my specialty, students have been, either consciously or unconsciously, fed a model for understanding the world that owes a lot more to Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin than it does to the Apostle Paul or to Jesus himself. This materialistic, deterministic model apes religion, while it stands in opposition to a proper understanding of the world. We know that Satan is not a creator, but a perverter and a destroyer. He offers secular ideology and politics where Christ offers salvation. That's why I'm with you this morning. I want to talk with you about a perverse ideology that clouds our worldview and robs the individual of both agency and identity. That ideology is Marxist socialism or communism. Now, Plato said before any discussion we should define our terms. Therefore, I think we should define the term ideology. Lots of people use this term today, but many of them use it incorrectly. They use it to mean any set or system of ideas, usually political. As a result, people will even talk about a conservative ideology. That's incorrect. In fact, one of my favorite historians, Russell Kirk, calls conservatism the negation of ideology. In other words, Steve, the two stand in opposition. So what then is ideology? It's a system or model of thought that seeks to take the place of religion. That's important. I'm going to say that again. Ideology is a system or model of thought that seeks to take the place of religion. Religion, of course, offers us answers to life's biggest questions. So does ideology. Religion offers us a model for worship and someone to worship. So does ideology. Religion offers us salvation. So does ideology, albeit of a very different kind. Remember, Satan is not a creator, but a perverter and a destroyer. He takes our natural desire for religion and the spiritual, and he offers us instead the political. Now, with that said, I want to chart our course. This morning I'd like to do three things with you. First, I'd like to give you the briefest of histories of socialism, where it began in the modern world and how it's evolved through the past couple centuries. Second, I'd like to share with you some of my personal observations regarding socialism and communism. Third, I'd like to share with you a pre a brief discussion of Karl Marx's model of history. This is a very compact yet complete system. And if you're willing to discount the existence of God, you may be tempted to adopt it as a guiding set of principles.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

I tell you, as far as the reason we're actually we're talking about this is with what's happening in the world today. You know, a lot of my listeners, basically from over the world, basically we're looking at total wellness, total health and wellness. And cultural health is a big component. And cultural health basically affects all the other components: physical health, spiritual health, mental health. You know, there's a lot of people who are worried so forth. And I think a lot of people, like we had talked to earlier before we started our program, as far as a lot of people don't understand what socialism is or what Marxism is. You know, we hear about it, and I know I always kind of used to hear it. I'm a Fox News listener, Sean Hannity, things like that, Mark Levin, and they talk about socialism. But, you know, it's a very scary thought. But I thought it'd be great like that is bringing Kevin in to kind of walk us through this path as far as where we're heading, possibly as a nation, if things don't turn around. So I just want to kind of let my listeners up where we're kind of going with the support. So go ahead. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Let's let's pick up with the history. I'd like to trace the development of socialism by examining this idea through three different periods or phases of modern history. The first of these is the French Revolution. The origins of modern socialism go back to this violent period at the end of the 18th century. Between 1789 and 1800, French radicals sought to replace the hated old world, or the Ancien regime, as they called it, with an entirely new one. The revolutionaries had as their target each of the major French institutions that valued tradition and history. As such, the monarchy, the aristocracy, and the church were all marked for destruction by those who believed history and tradition were merely shackles to be thrown off if common men and women were to realize their true potential. Despite the ultimate failure of the French Revolution, there were numerous attempts over the next few decades to establish ideal socialist communities throughout France. Each of these experiments ended in failure. The second major phase in the evolution of socialism came with the publication of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels' Communist Manifesto in 1848. Marx and Engels' ideas were a genuine attempt to deal with real problems experienced by the European laboring classes. In very simplistic terms, Marx recognized the scales of justice had tipped in favor of the factory owners during the Industrial Revolution. Workers dealt with issues like low pay, little job security, and unsafe working conditions. Marx saw the owners of big business not as employers, but rather as exploiters of the working class. He reasoned that the only way conditions would improve would be for the workers of the world to unite against their oppressors. In fact, Marx called for violent revolution. He said this sort of violent revolution was inevitable, as was the eventual triumph of the proletariat or the working class. In seeking to bring about this violent revolution, Marx, like the French revolutionaries, attacked institutions that had traditionally provided unity across class lines. He attacked the church, because the church provided a space where owners of industry and their workers met and worshiped together. As part of his effort to discredit religion, Karl Marx denied the existence of God. And he adopted an entirely materialistic view of the world, in which the only reality was that which could be seen and touched. Socialism entered a third phase of development during the latter half of the 19th and early part of the 20th century, as the struggle between workers and owners continued. The system reached its political high point when Vladimir Lenin and his Communist Bolshevik Party deposed the ruling Romanov family and took power in Russia in 1917. For the next 70 years, Soviet communism did battle with free market economics on a world stage. This battle finally concluded with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991. With the fall of the USSR, it appeared that socialism had finally been discredited as a serious economic theory. However, thanks to poor economics and history instruction in this country and a very clever rebranding by a new generation of socialists, this powerful ideology has seen a recent resurgence. Now we have members of Congress and other high-level political candidates who openly campaign and seek to govern as socialists. So socialism and communism have been with us for a while. We can even look back to the ancient world and see aspects of these ideologies. Now, before I share with you, Steve, the the Karl Marx's model of history, I'd like to make just a few general observations about socialism and communism. First, socialism and communism are components of the same ideology. We can use these terms interchangeably because communism is the natural end of socialism. The two are so alike, in fact, that the communist Soviet Union called itself the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. And communist China, Cuba, and Venezuela define themselves today as socialist nations. The only substantive difference between the two is that in a socialist country you still have private property, while in a communist nation, everything is owned directly by the state. Socialism destroys individual responsibility and virtue as well. Socialists seek to eliminate injustice by transferring individual rights and responsibilities to the state. In so doing, socialism removes the opportunity for the development of virtue. Where is the individual virtue in caring for the poor if it's accomplished through government-mandated taxation? Where is the virtue in a system that rewards the industrious man and the slothful man equally? Again, socialism destroys individual responsibility and it destroys the opportunity for virtue. Observation three, socialism is a violation of human nature. By guaranteeing equal rewards for unequal effort, socialism destroys individual initiative and denies human nature. Observation four, socialism violates private property. Socialists call for a redistribution of wealth in hopes of creating a more equal prosperity. As a result, citizens are unable to keep the fruits of their labor, and any notion of private property is destroyed. Because there is no God, say the socialists, there are no sacred unions. Supporters of this ideology see no moral reason for men and women to limit their affections to one another exclusively. For socialists, the human body is not a temple or a gift from God, but rather a machine to be used for work or pleasure wherever it can be found. Observation six. Socialism opposes parental rights in education. Socialists believe the state, not parents, should control the education of children. Almost from childbirth, children in a socialist system are handed over to government schools, where they're taught to value the state above all. Observation seven. Socialism promotes radical egalitarianism, or radical equality in all things. As a result, inequality of any kind is condemned as unjust. Business owners are maligned as cynical exploiters, seeking to profit from the labor of their employees. In fact, this is one of the most attractive aspects of socialism for young people today. Those young people have been taught in school to value tolerance and equality above all things. This radical leveling impulse stands in direct opposition to the variety of God's creation. And a final observation, number eight, socialism promotes atheism and mocks religion. For the socialist, man, not God, is the measure of all things. As a result, the socialist rejects the spiritual world, claiming that only the material world exists. To the committed socialist, God, the soul, and the next life are illusions or superstitions. According to Karl Marx, religion is the opiate of the people, used by government to maintain a complacent citizenry. Now that we know a little bit about the twin ideologies of socialism and communism, I want to finish with a brief explanation of Karl Marx's model of history. And when we talk about models of history, Steve, what we're talking about is basically an outlook on the world around us. Keep in mind, as we discussed earlier, ideology is meant to offer answers to life's biggest questions. Karl Marx's model has also been called linear history by some because it takes place in a straight line. This model became popular in American higher education in the 1930s, and it became the dominant model for thinking about history by the 1960s. Still today, whether they acknowledge it or not, many educators see the world around them according to this socialist or communist model of linear history. So what's linear history all about? Well, linear history is about capital P progress. In other words, Marx believed that we are always moving forward in our development. Second, linear history is about mankind's inevitable march from darkness to enlightenment. The assumption is that those generations who came before us are necessarily less enlightened than we are. Third, linear history is the idea that all we have to do is wake up tomorrow and will be more fully evolved than we are today. Fourth, it's it's the belief that the past is about racism, the past is about sexism and homophobia and injustice of all kinds. Finally, it's the idea that tradition and convention are bonds that must be broken if we're going to enjoy true liberty. The future, for those who see the world according to this model, is about the final attainment of heaven on earth. In other words, with Marx, we don't have to wait for satisfaction in the afterlife. We can build utopia here on earth. Now, let's take a look at how Marx says we get there to this utopia. In his model of history, Karl Marx said that every society goes through six stages as it progresses toward this temporal paradise. The first of those stages, Marx called hunting and gathering. Of course, our first need is to feed ourselves and provide ourselves with safety. Marx says this phase typically doesn't last very long because once the people can feed themselves, they'll begin to organize, and we'll enter the second phase of the model. That's called feudalism. If you're not familiar with that term, feudalism is a hierarchical structure to society. Picture a triangle. At the bottom of that triangle, you have most of the citizens of society. They're the commoners, they're the workers, they're the average person. In the middle, you might have a small middle class. At the top, you have a very small aristocracy. And then at the very, very top of that pyramid, you have the king or the queen. There is a structure to the society, it's a definite structure, it's one that rewards the few, according to the work of the many. Karl Marx says that feudalism will evolve as well, and in doing so, we enter the third category of his model, which is capitalism. I think most of us can define capitalism. It's about buying and selling, it's about the acquisition of wealth, it's about innovation and ideas, and selling those ideas to the public around us. For Karl Marx, capitalism was probably the most important stage of these six. Marx said that when we enter the capitalist stage, we begin to see a very large separation between the haves and the have-nots, those who have material wealth and those who work to produce it. Marx said because of that separation, capitalism eventually breaks down into chaos. Marx also said that this breakdown happens through violent revolution. When capitalism breaks down, Marx says that we enter the fourth stage of development, and that's socialism. Socialism can be defined or is defined by Marx as the more equitable distribution of wealth. In a socialist society, we have those who achieve and those who don't achieve, but we punish those achievers by taxing them at a very high rate and then redistributing that wealth to those who who have produced less. What's unique about socialism is there is still private property. It's still my house, my car, my possessions. I may own fewer of them, but I still have a right to them. Private property still exists. Socialism will evolve into the fifth stage, says Marx, which is communism. Under communism, we have something called the dictatorship of the proletariat. That's where the working class rises up, takes power, puts themselves, so to speak, at the top of that pyramid we saw back under the feudal system, and they determine the rules of society. One of the other things that happens under communism is private property goes away. Big industry, small industry, everything becomes the property of the state. The goal under communism is to ensure that everyone has equal things. And once that's achieved, Karl Marx says we finally enter the sixth stage of development. This is heaven on earth. This is the temporal paradise. This is utopia. Marx also calls it the withering of the state. And that that title may be a little bit puzzling, but Marx called it the withering of the state because he said we need no state apparatus if we all have equal stuff. Marx would attribute crime to the fact that we we have unequal things. An unequal distribution of wealth. So why do we need police? Because there's crime. Why do we have crime? Because people have an unequal number of goods. Under communism, once perfect equality is established, then that state, the police, government, all the other apparatus of the state will begin to wither away and disappear. And we've achieved utopia. Now, remember, Marx said that every society would eventually pass through all six stages. He said you can't skip a stage, you never go backward. Remember, this is linear history. This is about progress. This is moving from A to B. Recognize that in this view of history, the individual has no agency. Man has no ability to affect history or to affect the world around him. History for Marx is a very per powerful, impersonal force that moves on its own. History is something that happens to us, not something that we create or alter. Because the individual has no ability to affect the world around him, that individual also has little value in Marx's system. If you're searching for a reason why socialist and communist regimes seem to be some of the most murderous in history, here it is. People don't count for much. Vladimir Lenin illustrated this. When he was questioned about the scores of people killed in the Russian Revolution, Lenin actually said, if you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. Again, this is an ideology that dominates the history departments of many of our major universities today. This is an ideology that permeates the thinking of our major media outlets. This is an ideology that is communicated in most cases unknowingly, in bits and pieces, in many of our nation's schools and universities. This is an ideology espoused by some of the radicals doing violence in our cities today. And finally, this is an ideology that seeks to destroy traditional American society now, as it destroyed French society in the eighteenth century and Russian society in the 20th century. Now, let me conclude with just a couple thoughts here, Steve. Or really a a brief story. When the leaders of the three Allied nations gathered at the end of World War II to redraw the map of Europe, the British Prime Minister Winston Churchill suggested the group should consult one of the world's leading religious authorities, Pope Pius XII, to ask for his input. The American president agreed. But the Soviet leader, Joseph Stalin, sneered and said, Remind me, how many divisions does the Pope have? You see, the Marxist leader of the officially atheist Soviet Union was only concerned with this world, with earthly power. Many of our so-called leaders today suffer from the same limited delusion. They limit their outlook just to the material world. They forget that Stalin's seemingly invincible Soviet Empire disappeared less than five decades after he mocked God. While the Soviet Union is no no more, we face an equally daunting foe today. The good news is that this is the same enemy that has been defeated by the forces of God over and over and over again. Socialism and communism are godless ideologies, but they're just a veneer for the real foe that is the architect of chaos, the perverter, and the destroyer. Never forget that the battle has already been decided. The war has already been won. But God requires that we run the race to the end. We can take solace in knowing that we outnumber them because any devout Christian plus God is a majority.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

And as we were tuxing back and forth, and as far as where society's headed, and you know, I have a son that's getting ready to go into the military. I'm basically I'm a I had a grandfather that was involved in the the police, chief of police as well, state police and other higher levels. But as far as you know, where we where we headed, it just it just blows my mind. I think as far as and you made the comment, we we Americans, a lot of the the people basically take it for granted. You know, and you and you look at what our forefathers and all our ancestries did and fought for the freedom we enjoy today. Right. And and we're we're we have a group of individuals that are trying to take that away, all that we work for. Yeah. And just does not make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah. We we have so little understanding of our own history, Steve. I I was fortunate last night to speak to a group of folks about the American founding. And as part of that discussion, I told the story of a couple of the 56 men who put their names on the Declaration of Independence. One of those men was a guy by the name of Abraham Clark. Clark was from New Jersey. And during the course of the Revolutionary War, he gave two sons to the officer corps of the Continental Army. And those two sons were captured by the British. The British, during the Revolutionary War, they didn't build prisons, but rather they sent their prisoners to prison ships off the East Coast. And Abraham Clark's two sons were sent to the worst of these prison ships. It was called the Jersey. The men called it the Hell Ship because of the conditions on the ship. And just before the end of the war, weeks before the end of the war, the British got a message to Abraham Clark. And they said, if you will come out against George Washington, if you will come out against the revolution, if you will come out in favor of king and of country, we'll release your sons. And Abraham Clark's answer was no. And both of his sons died as a result of their treatment on the jersey. That's one of 56 compelling stories of the men who signed the declaration. You're right. We've forgotten.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Well, I tell you what, you know, you had I you gave me some resources to look because I want I wanted to be prepared because again, cultural health is done in my wheelhouse. And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to be educated before Kevin comes to my office. So we finally got some resources. You had listed some resources when you spoke in our church, and I was able to get actually the book written by uh the politically incorrect guide to socialists. And this is the author, Kevin D. Williamson. And as I kind of open up and I was kind of reading to something about as far as a social, there's a couple, couple quotes by people that we may hear of or know. And I want to read these quotes, but I also want to ask a question. You know, I don't see people battling down the gates to enter China or battling down the gates to enter Russia. It always seems they're trying to come to America. Right. You know, and I'm thinking of all those protesters, not to, you know, again, we understand peaceful protests. That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about the rioters, the anarchists that come to do harm, that come to destroy property, things like that. I wonder how many of those are immigrants who fought and who sacrificed to leave their country to come to America. Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

I would say it's very few. Right. You know, anecdotally speaking, I I don't have any numbers on this, but you just go on social media, there are all sorts of immigrants telling their stories. People that feel fortunate to have left a country where they didn't have the right to speak freely. They didn't have a right to have their case heard before a jury. And they've come here to the United States and they're so thankful for what they've got. Some of the most compelling stories I've seen are from Cubans who've left left the island and come here and they they appreciate what they have here.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

I tell you, as far as some of the quotes, uh, one is by Jonah Goldberg, and his quote is it's been said that socialism would only work in heaven where it's not needed, and in hell where they already got it. I thought that was pretty funny. I was like, okay, that's a good point. And then Mark Levin, Kevin Williamson, the author of the Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism, puts his finger on what makes government planners dreams of running our lives not only ineffective, but dangerous. They don't know half as much as they think they do. Exploring the socialist philosophy in their own words, Williamson shows why the problem with socialism isn't just that it hurts the economy, but it undermines all the institutions that allow a free society to function. And that is why it can't coexist with liberty.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Right. Wow. You know, liberty is about taking personal responsibility. One of the things that I find most distasteful about socialism is the idea that there is a class of experts, a class of elites who know better than we how to run our lives. I think if more people understood that about socialism, they wouldn't find it as attractive.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Right. And the third quote is by Larry Kudlow. Socialism isn't just bad for business, but bad for the poor, bad for the environment, and bad for your health.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Right. Yeah, if if we can't keep the fruit of our labor, if there's no guarantee that that what we produce is ours, if property rights mean nothing as they often do in a socialist or communist system, then with there's little incentive to get out of bed in the morning and go to work.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Right. I think. And you look at the healthcare of Canada, you know. I mean, people were wanting to s Obamacare back in 2008, I believe. It was 2008, 2012, when he basically started Obamacare, you know, and everybody's socialistic medicine. And that was, I think, a point that's possible where they're wanting to go. Right. And the lines and and going in to get surgery and, you know, testing MRIs, you know, it just backlogs. Right. And it's just unbelievable as far as, you know, you give up so much, you know, for that particular area type deal. But I tell you what, we're going to do we're going to go ahead and take a break. And when we get back, we're going to continue our discussion with Kevin Ritter on socialism, communism, and Marxism.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

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SPEAKER_02 33:54

Welcome back to Soaring Health and Wellness. And today's guest is Kevin Ritter, and we've been talking about Marxism, socialism, and communism. So again, I'm going to have Kevin kind of brief us up, get you all back to where we were before we start a discussion. Okay, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Well, Steve, we began with a little bit of the history of this idea. We talked about the development of socialism in France during the French Revolution. We talked about the publication of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels' Communist Manifesto in 1848. And then we talked about the high point of socialism-communism in the Russian Revolution under Vladimir Lenin in 1917. We also had an opportunity to look at some of my own observations about socialism and communism. I think the thing that I find most distasteful about socialism and communism is it removes the opportunity for the individual to pursue virtue. Again, there's no virtue in me paying my taxes on April the 15th if the government compels it. If I'm alleviating the problems of the poor through my church, through my tithing, there is virtue in that because it's it's my own individual decision, my my action. So the the opportunity to develop virtue is something that's lost under socialism.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

I'd say, you know, we talked earlier, you know, as far as people coming to America, and I understand as far as if socialism has been a complete failure. You know, it's been a failure in Russia, it's been a failure in China, then uh Vela, you know, all these where socialism has been tried, it has failed. Why is there such a big push from these progressive liberals to move in a direction where it fails?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah. I don't understand that. You know, I think there are some things that are attractive on a surface level about it. You can certainly make the case that it's about fairness. But we we have to think about how we define fairness, right? God, God per appreciates variety, right? God created us with a variety of different abilities. I tell my own kids, I'm not even equal to myself on different days of the week. I I may go in on Monday and give the best lecture that you know my class has heard. And on Wednesday, I haven't slept real well and I've had a difficult morning, and and I'm not so good that day. That variety is part of the world. Our willingness to work hard. Some people would prefer to lay on the couch than get up at six o'clock in the morning and work. So there's great variety in the world. Socialism doesn't recognize that. It penalizes those with gifts, it penalizes those who are willing to work hard, and it rewards those who aren't willing to work hard. So anything other than just a surface look at it, you you begin to recognize some of the problems with the system.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah, it gives you no incentive. Right. Like you said, it takes everything away. Why, why get up in the morning when I don't have to? If if I I mean, it doesn't matter if I work harder, then yeah, it doesn't make sense. This whole thing doesn't make any sense to me. But anyway, as we talked earlier, as far as these other countries that, you know, the dictatorship, things like that, you know, we we we have fought so hard, or forefathers have fought so hard for the freedoms that we enjoy today. You know, like I said, as far as coming up in November, this election, it seemed like there's pretty much two choices, whether you like Donald Trump or you don't like Donald Trump. It's not about Trump, it's about where you want this nation to head. Either are we gonna go more towards a socialistic and like you said, socialism pretty much ends up in communism. Is that right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah, it's the inevitable end.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Pretty much so if you want to say hi, we're just gonna be a socialist country, but you know, we get kind of you know, it's stepping off the edge. And that's why I think that you know, this program is so important for those who don't realize what's at stake, you know, in this election, and to inform them, and that's why I wanted you to hear, but also as far as what's happening in the world today, as far as the freedoms that we enjoy, you know, we talk about as far as you know, homosexuals, lesbian marriages, you know, those rights and freedoms that we can choose the how we live. But as we talked earlier, you don't get those same rights in a socialistic or communistic country.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Isn't that correct? Right, exactly. You know, remember what we said earlier, the the characteristic of a socialist or communist system is the idea that there is a ruling class, a ruling elite, this group of people that have have a hold on some kind of Gnostic knowledge that not everybody else has. And as a result, they're more well placed to make those sorts of moral decisions for us. You know, you just mentioned homosexuality. I'm not in favor of gay marriage. I am in favor of freedom. In the United States, because we have a Bill of Rights, there are certain protections for folks that the government simply can't take away. That's the beauty of a republic, as opposed to socialism, communism, or on the other hand, pure democracy.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Right. It's like that. You know, you you had mentioned earlier in the program as far as I believe uh eventually talking about the police, the state, eventually abolishing or dissolving. Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

We never seem to get to that point, right? Socialist and communist countries are really good at getting to the dictatorship of the proletariat. They're really good at getting to totalitarianism and controlling all of all of the aspects of our lives. They never seem to evolve to step six, the withering of the state.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Wow. And you and you see what's happening in Portland across the country, people trying to defund our police department, abolish the police department, abolish law and order. It's a very scary place type deal. And uh, I kind of see as far as, wow, when you were talking, it's like all those things I was seeing on news type deal, as far as wow, this is you know, you didn't ever think this would happen. You know, I know my grandfather 40 years ago when he was in law enforcement, never thought this would be happening where they would want to abolish the police. But anyway, I tell you, what is what can we do as a church? What can we do as far as how do we how do we push back in a way as far as to kind of fight this? What's what's what's trying to take over our free society?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

You know, a couple things. I I think one of the most important things we do, Steve, is we need to elect leaders, be they Democrats or Republicans. I I'm not a partisan, but we need to elect leaders who are committed to religious freedom. That's one of the most important things to our founding fathers. We have a First Amendment right to practice as we see fit. We need to elect leaders who are committed to upholding that.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I tell you what, so that's I mean, that's a big part of possibly socialism too. I mean, you know, you you see what's happening as far as going after our religious freedom. Right. You know, I I saw a little bit of the hearing with the big Google, Facebook, yeah, you know, things like that, as far as targeting conservatism. Right. You know, as far as that. And uh they always kind of say, well, it was a glitch. It was a glitch in the uh our our algorithm rhythms like that. I'm thinking, I don't know if it's a glitch like that. But anyway, you kind of see as far as that possibly uh stifling our voice and so forth. Right. But anyway, go ahead and continue with what you were.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Well, I a second thing I think the church can do to push back is of course pray. And I think we need to pray for and support the bold clergy who aren't afraid to speak out, the bold clergy that aren't afraid to put on the armor of God and enter the arena of ideas. For whatever reason, we have clergy around the country that are terrified about speaking on politics. And I think it's related to this 501c3 nonprofit status that so many churches hold, but I think that's an unfounded fear. Those preachers who have entered the arena of politics, none of them have had that 501c3 status taken away. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

I tell you, and I think that another point's like that, what's coming up in the up in this November, you know, which way do you want this country to head?

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Right. And neither candidate is perfect. I know how I'm gonna vote, but it you're never going to have Jesus himself on the ballot, right? So everybody has has got imperfections.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Right. So it's important to vote. And uh I tell you, do you is there a website people can go as far as to to register?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Do you know right off hand? You know, I I would go through your county boards of elections. I think that's the easiest way to go about it. Early voting has has become much more popular. I'm not personally a proponent of early voting, but that starts in less than 90 days. Wow. So I would get in touch with your county boards of elections, find out what the rules are to get registered, but you can contact the individual parties as well. If you know you're a Democrat, if you know you're a Republican, contact the local party and they will help you get registered also. Okay. All right. As far as messaging, what should we do as messaging? You know, I as I hear people who value the free market, people who value the tradition and the history of the United States, there are a couple of suggestions I'd make. As we talk with those who don't value those things, I think we need to emphasize a few things. I think we need to emphasize freedom. We need to emphasize liberty, and we need to emphasize choice by talking about the free market. Rather than using Karl Marx's term, capitalism. You know, I see so many folks that I know believe in the free market talking about it as capitalism. And I kind of shy away from that. I like Adam Smith's term a lot better, the free market. And especially with what's going on in today's racially charged atmosphere, I think we can stress the idea that the free market is colorblind, that the consumer moves toward the best ideas, not the color of somebody's skin. I know young people are very concerned about race as an issue. So stressing that the free market is colorblind, I think is something that would be attractive, especially to young, young voters.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Okay. As far as how can I how can I pray?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Or, you know, will it be a good thing as far as prayer points? A couple of things. I I think we should pray that that God will open the eyes of all Americans specifically to the dehumanizing aspect of socialism and communism, of the controlled economy. We talked a little bit about a term agency earlier. Under socialism and communism, the individual has very little worth, very little ability to affect the world around them. That is dehumanizing. So we need to pray about that. We can also pray that God will place a hedge of protection around the good and moral leaders that do exist, those who are in the battle. They need that protection. And then also in in times of trouble, if if we get into our Bibles, we find that in times of trouble, God has a tendency to raise up new leaders who will speak with his authority. So we need to pray for those new leaders. I think also we might consider praying that God will fortify all of us and bless our efforts as we seek to become educated on this subject. You've got a stack of books on your desk. You obviously did your homework before this. This uh I could have done better. Yeah. But it's important that we that we read. I heard an interesting fact this morning. I was listening to a lecture online about the founding period, and booksellers in London were noticing a trend. They were noticing that the American colonists were buying books at a much higher rate than were British citizens. So whether they they were consciously preparing or not, the American colonists were doing their reading in the decades leading up to the American Revolution.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Wow, how interesting is that.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Wow.

unknown 46:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

I'll tell you what, as far as you know, you you were in the school system.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yeah. Like that. Yeah. Still am. I I teach as an adjunct on and off at a couple different local colleges. I'm a co-founder of a local classical school and I teach there. We've lost the schools. And we've lost them in large part to Karl Marx's philosophy. Now, I don't think if we did a survey in the schools, I don't think most teachers are going to say, I believe in what Karl Marx teaches. But this has seeped into our culture, and we have a lot of teachers sharing these ideas with young people that don't really even understand the origin of those ideas, or worse yet, where they're taking us. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

A question I have as far as you see a lot of the history trying to be taken away. You see a lot of these statues, you know, like you said before, you know, we're we're not perfect. Yeah. Okay. And I know as far as when I was being taught, you know, things are a little bit different. Uh we were talked about American history, world history, state history, so forth. And you kind of see where we were and what we went through and where we're at now. You know, like no society is perfect. Right. But it really kind of bothers me as far as taking down those statues that is a part of history, you know, not to kind of like take us back in the day, but also what we can learn from. Right, exactly. You know, how can we learn from the mistakes that our fathers make? You know, I tell you what, and and the thing is, you know, we're talking about the the kids that are out there that are causing destruction, you know, killings, you know, and I I don't want to get into the BLM movement because I'm not very versed in the BLM movement. Sure. But I I really sincerely believe if if if black lives matter, and I believe all lives matter, okay, and I know there's some been in some injustice, but just to see some of the killings that's happening in the Chicago area, you know, New York area. This gentleman that was, I think, 65, 67, a black individual who was killed in Wisconsin for just being a Trump supporter, so forth. Right. And so I'm I'm thinking we're and I don't know if you feel comfortable in talking about that. I mean, that's gonna be another subject, another topic that I will have people that that are more aware of that.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

But as far as you know, the the only thing, Steve, I would say about Black Lives Matter is they are very upfront about their ideology. When I first encountered the group and wanted to learn more about it, I went to their website and and read what they stand for. And it's shocking. And I listened to some of the news reports, and it's clear that the folks on the news haven't taken that easy step and just gone to the website to see what these people say about themselves. So I I agree entirely. There's there's a tragic history associated with race here in America. Each of us as individuals needs to follow the golden rule, right? And treat people regardless of color creed, the way that we want to be treated.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

I have some great friends that are black and so forth, and people that I went to school with, roommates with in my wedding. So it's just wow. So that's why I was kind of thinking, is there an agenda that they're trying to portray type deal, or they're they're really concerned? But anyway, as far as for people who are wanting more information, some more sources to kind of do their homework. Do you have any sources that you would recommend to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Sure, absolutely. What I'll do, Steve, I'll give you a variety. I know people come at this from all sorts of different backgrounds. There are going to be people who are novices, people that that like to read a lot and enjoy Phyllis Hop. So I'll try to give you a variety. I think the most basic place to start, again, is with the purveyors of this idea, with Marx and Engels. I would challenge people, read the Communist Manifesto. You'll be shocked. You talk about women's rights. I I see so many young ladies out there supporting Marxist ideas on the streets. If they'd read the Communist Manifesto, they wouldn't support those ideas because Marx and Engels had no place for women in their society. You know, George Orwell was a socialist and an atheist, but George Orwell wrote some of the most compelling anti-communist literature that's out there. Either of his two important novels, either Animal Farm or 1984, I think would be a good place to start.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

You had mentioned uh a story, and I I'm not sure which one it was. I don't know if it was George. Was it George Orwell's book? It's like that that was actually either from Russia or communist country type deal that actually was so involved and actually kind of learned and kind of veered and turned around against Well, Animal Farm is is largely metaphor.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

It's he's telling the story of communism through the eyes of barnyard animals. All the lessons that you learn through those animals are lessons that people learn the hard way in places like the Ukraine. But that that's a terrific place to go to understand communism. Well, one of the other great sources that that I would encourage people to read is Whitaker Chambers Witness. Whitaker Chambers, fascinating, fascinating person. I can't believe Hollywood hasn't told the story of his life. Whitaker Chambers came from a terrible background. His family was riddled with suicide and alcoholism and sexual abuse. And as a young teen, he was exposed to communism and he became a committed communist to the extent that he became an agent for the Soviet Union here in the United States. Some people, your listeners, may know the story. Whitaker Chambers is the one who brought down Alger Hiss. Alger Hiss was the Soviet spy who was the second ranking official at the United States State Department. Fascinating, fascinating story. Richard Nixon was the prosecutor in that case, interviewed Whitaker Chambers. So I I would recommend his book, Witness. Friedrich Hayek is an Austrian economist. He wrote a book called The Road to Serfdom, wrote that during World War II. He dissects both fascism and communism. Living scholar, guy by the name of Paul Kengor, he wrote a book that you referenced earlier: Communism, its ideology, its history, and its legacy, and also the politically incorrect guide to communism. Paul Kengore is a very good writer. Guy by the name of Richard Pipes writes mostly international affairs, but he wrote a very good sort of intro to communist ideology called Communism a History. Fulton Sheen, I'm Catholic. I come from a Catholic background. Fulton Sheen was an archbishop in the Catholic Church and was also very anti-communist in his teaching. He has a variety of different books that touch on the subject, but I would recommend Communism and the Conscience of the West. Two more. You mentioned Kevin Williamson's politically incorrect guide to socialism. That's a great place to begin. And then lastly, one of the great dissidents of Soviet history is a guy by the name of Alexander Solzanitsin. Solzhenitsyn was arrested, sent to Siberia. He was in one of the labor camps and wrote about that experience in his famous book called The Gulag Archipelago. So there's a variety of different sources. I'd recommend those to anybody.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Just to pronounce that Alexander's last name, Solzanitzin. That was pretty impressive. Either on how you know we can all get along, you know, you know, how this country can heal, how, you know, the the strife and the you know the stress, again, you know, what's going on in the world is affecting everybody, you know, whether it be physical health, mental health, spiritual health, emotional health, it's all connected, it's all interrelated and so forth. And there just, I believe there just needs to be a complete and total healing of the relationships, but also something that we may be able to do to kind of help get us through this difficult time.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Yeah, I I think, Steve, all of us wants to be valued as an individual. We're unique. God created us, created us in his image and his likeness. Socialism, communism blurs that. In contrast, the American project, the American experiment is about bringing temporal law, law here on earth, into line with God's law. The individual has value in the American system. We haven't lost that. So I I would encourage people to look back into the American founding, embrace those ideas. That's where we find protection for individual worth.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

All righty. Well, I tell you what, I just want to thank Kevin for joining us today. I appreciate your input and the information that you brought to us. And until next time, I tell you, if you've if you never have heard of any of our other podcasts, you can always go to eagleswave ministries.org and you'll see a list of the podcasts. But anyway, I just want to again thank you, Kevin. And until next time, keep advancing.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Thank you for listening to Soaring in Health and Wellness with Dr. Steve Wells and his guests. We would like to thank our sponsor, Mountaineer Chiropractic. For more information, go online to MountaineerCairo.com. If you'd like to be a sponsor or help support Soaring in Health and Wellness Podcasts, please go to the web at Equals Wave Ministries.org and select the patron page in the top menu bar. If you or your business or church would like Dr. Steve Wells to speak at your church, special vendor conference, please go online to EqualsWays Ministries.org and select contact in the menu bar. Or send an email to Equals Wave Ministries at gmail.com. 304-485-658. Until next time, think about the thing in chapter 40, versus 29 to 31. He gives strength to the weary and increases in the power of the weak. Even if screwed in weary, and young men's still in the fall. They will run in the group weary. They will walk in the thing.