For The Love of Improv
For The Love of Improv
Where Stand Up and Improv Meet
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What does Stand-up comedy and improv have in common? Well, let’s break it down. If one is the loneliest number, carry the two for duo improv, multiply by an improv team of 7 and divide and conquer. What do you get? Um….a really weird math problem that makes no sense. Don’t worry, in this episode of For The Love of Improv, stand-up comedian, Kat Simmons, is going to sort it all out for us. Not only has she performed standup professionally for decades, she dabbled in improv for many years. If anyone can help us understand the connection between stand-up and improv, it’s Kat Simmons.
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Hello and welcome to the fifth episode of For the Love of Improv. We are your hosts, Jesse Wicks.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm Katie Welsh, and we're super excited to talk today about improv for stand-up and maybe vice versa. And super excited to have Kat Simmons on to help us talk about that because she is a professional comedian. Kat, and just a little brief bio about Kat. Kat Simmons is a 35-year veteran of the International Comedy Club circuit. You may have seen her at the improv, Catch a Rising Star, or on the comedy channel, Fox's Comedy Tonight, or Candid Camera. She has appeared with Tim Allen, Rob Schneider, and Kevin Neeland, to name a few. She toured with the three blonde moms and won the eWoman Networks International Talent Contest in Dallas in 2009. Kat has taught stand-up comedy workshops for 25 years in Minden, Nevada, and they're awesome because I've taken several of them. Welcome Kat to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So we're going to start off with a question that we ask all our guests for the love of improv. We always like to know kind of a personal story about how you got into improv. What was your first improv class? What was your first impression of improv? What was that story?
SPEAKER_02:My first experience with improv was that I didn't even know what I was going to see. And it was well before I started stand-up comedy. There was a group called the Groundlings that was performing up at Caesar's Tahoe. And I thought that sounded like a lot of fun. So I got some friends together and we went and saw them. And I was never had seen improv before, didn't know anything about improv. I'd done some theater, but didn't know anything about that. I was absolutely riveted upside down, fell in love with the whole process, energized, enthusiastic, obsessed, fair to say. And it just changed my life seeing that first that first uh show. And I wanted to just get up out of my seat and go up onto the stage. And then I wanted to get in the van with them. I'm assuming they were in a van. The next place they went. That's that's how I felt. I was so affected by it. I talked to one of the guys afterwards. I was all starstruck, and his name was Tim Stack. He was one of the early players in the Groundlings, and he gave me his business card. And um then I was in LA a couple of years later and I called him. But that was my first experience with improv. I later got into uh another improv group of my own. But after I first moved to LA, I was like, I mean, I had alfalfa in my hair. I didn't even know where I was. Again, I was like the small town girl show up in LA. I went to uh a cold reading workshop, it was my first thing to do. Um and uh they told me to go into the second door, you know, on La Coenga Boulevard. I couldn't even pronounce that. So I didn't even know what a cold reading workshop was, but it was all these people, and then they had us on the stage and they were doing all these weird things, like I had to be a piece of fruit and blender, and I had to be a bacon in a frying pan, and we had to walk with our eyes closed. And I thought, I didn't think this was a cold reading workshop, but whatever. You know, I'm a newbie here in LA, so I'll just go with the flow. Um, and the woman I had spoken to on the phone about the cold reading workshop told me it was$25 for the class. And at the break of this particular class, the gentleman said we could all write our checks, and I think they were like$300 and some odd dollars. And I thought, oh my God, I must, you know, I gotta tell him I got it in because this lady told me it was$25. So I went over to him and I said, excuse me, I talked to Tony Attel last night, and she told me that the class was$25. Sorry about that ding. Um, and he said, Well, then you should probably go next door over to Tony Attel's class. I wasn't in a cold reading workshop at all. 100% unbeknownst to me, I was in a groundlings audition class, and I auditioned for the groundlings on accident. Oh, I was accepted into the group. So that is my first big hurrah story. I didn't join, and we're gonna talk about that later, but it was just it blew my mind.
SPEAKER_00:Did you have to pay the$300?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I did not. I left and I went. That's another whole story. I don't know if we have time for that. My first cold, my my uh my improv audition for the groundlings and my cold reading workshop night were all in the same night. My first night in LA. And wow.
SPEAKER_00:It's kind of fortuitous. That's kind of like told in the stars a little bit, like you were meant to be there.
SPEAKER_02:So naive. You know, it's the second door, but it depends on which direction you're coming from, right down right hill. But I was just so naive. I just was like, I don't know why we're doing all these weird things. You know, I didn't know about improv games at all. I mean, I had seen the show, right? But it didn't even trigger like I was doing improv. That's how naive and new I was to all of this. So that's my first story. And why did I keep coming back? Because it was it was so much fun. I didn't go back to the um the groundlings even after I made the audition, but I did later join another improv group. But that's why I joined that group because my first experience was just so exhilarating. It was so fun.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, that's so cool. That's such a such a cool story. Um, and and I mean, did you and so, but you didn't, you didn't um you didn't decide to continue on with the audition or no, because I was in the wrong and and I that's the thing, I made it and I bailed halfway through.
SPEAKER_02:They called me and told me I made it, but I see, I have to tell you the story next door was the cold reading workshop. She was a friend of her friend. Jeffrey Greenberg was the casting director, and he was the casting director for cheers. Shelly long just left in my little Hollywood mind. I thought, I'm gonna go into that cold reading workshop and I'm gonna be discovered. Jeffrey, she's gonna be the next Shelly Long. I had been up since five o'clock getting perfectly dressed. I even remember what I had on. God, it was horrible. But at the time it seemed cool. So I really wanted to go next door. So I interrupt their class halfway through, and I meet this Tony Attel lady for the first time ever. And Jeffrey Greenberg looks up at me, sort of with disdain, like, who's this lady coming in late? And he hands me a side and he said, I would like you to read the part of Diane Chambers' um ballet teacher, and I'd like you to do it with a Russian accent. Okay, so it was just bacon over there, and now I gotta be a Russian. So I went in the bathroom and just I had to get myself straight, and I was like, I couldn't even think of how to do a Russian accent. I could only think of Yaakov Schmirnov's political, you know, the only way to vote in Russia is to defect. And so I kept doing that in my head and I was saying a little prayer, and I was gonna come back out and just do my very best. And I tried not to disturb, but I walked over. There's a it's a it's an old theater, and it had like a concrete step coming out of the bathroom. I tripped out of that into a metal mop bucket, sent it reaching across the floor. Crash, boom, bang, mops are coming out. Jeffrey Greenberg puts his glasses down and looks at me. I'm like, Jesus. And I went, I went out there and read that side with a Russian accent. I didn't get cast as anything, but that was my first night in Hollywood, you guys. Oh my God. All that happened.
SPEAKER_00:All so welcome to Hollywood cat. That sounds like a stand-up comedy bit, if ever I've heard one like you guys really. Yeah. Yeah. So then, so then how did that lead into uh stand-up comedy for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, when I went to LA, um, I my first intention was to be, I never wanted to do stand-up comedy. I mean, that's terrifying. Who in their right mind won't want to do that? I done theater and I I always seem to get the funny part in theater and I loved it. And right before I moved uh to LA, there was a stand-up comedy um search up at the Lakeside Inn, which is now torn down. That's how long I've been doing stand-up. Um, and I thought, you know what? Actually, a girlfriend challenged me. She goes, Oh, you're gonna go to LA and do this acting thing, but you can't even do this comedy thing here. And I'm like, it's two different things. I mean, stand-up. But I I called and I got the information on the contest, and the lady gave me all the information and she said, you know, do you want me to put you down? And I was like, Yes. The word came out of my mouth, and I had heart palpitations for like three weeks. I thought I was gonna die. Honestly, I was so scared. And I did that contest up at the lake, um, already having the plan to go to LA, but the that contest really changed the to this the big word, trajectory of everything. And then when I did stand up, I fell in love with that.
SPEAKER_01:And so, Kat, and so for this, because you had never once done stand-up, and then all of a sudden you find yourself doing in a stand a contest, a stand-up contest.
SPEAKER_02:Contest, Katie, for money. Not even crazy. How naive was I about all this? It's a good thing I didn't really know. I mean, people had their three by five cards with jokes and a set list, and they were talking about they'd open for so-and-so, and I was like, Oh my god, I've made a really big mistake. Oh my god, what have I done? It was like 20 people in this contest and some people after the contest. I and I didn't suck. I didn't suck. Um, I wasn't great.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, but I didn't suck. You were you didn't say you're good, but you at least you didn't.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't there were laughs and I didn't die, so that made it okay. But after the show, this is what changed everything. Okay, after the show, some people called me over and they'd been in business in the you know show business. They were musicians and had done USO shows for years. And they said, How long have you been doing stand up? And I said, Well, about five minutes, you know. She said, Don't quit. Whatever you do, just don't quit. You could be the next carabinette if you wanted to be Anna. God, she was my idol. So she hooked me up with a bunch of numbers and contacts in LA, and that Tony Attel, the cold reading lady, was one of them. And that's how that all came to pass. And so I just got to LA and went to that cold reading workshop. And the next night I was at the comedy store and just started. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, that's like just full force in there. I mean, I've been like dipping my toes in different classes here and there for years now, and I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to going to LA. And you just kind of like just threw yourself in the deep end, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_02:I I catapulted myself into that new dimension. Like, I mean, I wouldn't recommend that, but you know, usually you start out where you are, you grow where you are, get some experience under your feet, you know, get a job and a place to live. I can't tell you guys, I was possessed. It was like I had to go. I had to go there. And um originally it was to do theater, you know. I thought, oh, I would do theater and then I'd get a sitcom and that would be that. So the comedy thing was kind of uh an insert into my first plan, and then the improv was another one. But when it came time to go, it was like 300 bucks, two ADZ, one suitcase, bye-bye. And that's how I did it. I mean, I was like, if I gotta live in my car eating beans by the train station, that's what I'm gonna do. You know, it's like they say you shouldn't do stand-up comedy unless you're gonna die if you don't. And it it you kind of have to want to do it that much, yeah, to really stick it out. But I wanted to do everything, guys. I wanted to when when you were talking, Jess, about uh dipping your toes and stuff. I was I got in an improv group called Mental Floss. That was fun. I was doing acting classes, I was doing radio stuff, I was doing voiceover stuff, I was I had two jobs, I was doing stand-up, I was I was gonna burn out. And so after, I don't even know, after maybe a year of doing, I was like omnipresent doing everything, I was like, cat, maybe just pick one thing and try to do one thing well, singleness purpose here, and then when that when you become good at that, maybe the rest of the doors will open in the other areas, and that's when I decided to just streamline it to just do stand-up. I mean, I was still hoping I was still going out on auditions and still hoping to get a sitcom, but it's hard to audition during audition season in LA and support yourself, you know. Like I I had jobs on the road, so I had to kind of choose between doing what I love to make money versus trying to nickel and dime a living in LA to stay home for pilot season. So that was tough. So I chose the road and I chose the road over improv.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right. Well, so um a lot of our listeners are kind of like beginners and learn learner. They're not necessarily beginners, they're all stages, but they're in an active learning process. Can you kind of explain for us what you know you kind of threw yourself into it, and then like what was your learning process? What was what was the stages that you took to become comfortable enough to feel like you could teach it?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, teach stand-up comedy. Um, oh my gosh. Well, how how that came to be after I moved back here, I've been I've been in the business six years, things were starting to do great, but I wanted to get I wanted to have kids. So I moved back here to Carson Valley and then I immediately started producing shows. And that was another whole adjunct of the business production and booking. And um, after one of the shows that I and I hosted and produced my own shows, and it was a kick in the pants for 13 years I did that. Um, JB, you know JB Barnes. Okay, he came up with his little face after a show, and he said, Do you ever teach you know any classes? Mike Knights. I'm like, Yeah, no, I don't, I don't do that. But God, I'm a sucker for passion. I'm really a sucker for when people want something and they want to learn. So, um, I what was your original question?
SPEAKER_03:Was you learning learning?
SPEAKER_02:What was my learning experience that brought me to be able to teach stand-up comedy? God, that's just such a huge question.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, why don't we just start with the first part? Just like, what was your learning experience? How did you learn stand up?
SPEAKER_02:I did it. Yeah, I just did it. And so I I had people call me because in LA we were all in this open mic network. You know, Katie, you hang out with the open mic network, and people have their day jobs and then they get together every Wednesday or whatever. Breaking away from that was a bold move. It was, I am gonna do this. And that I we don't have enough time on this podcast for me to tell you all the stories. Every single juncture, junction, whatever, has a story to it and a cool story at that. Like I had a day job, I was uh doing really well at this day job, I was making a lot of money, and then they offered the day I was gonna go in and quit, they offered me a raise, like doubled my income. And I was like, Thank you very much, but I have to quit because I knew that that money was gonna kill my career.
SPEAKER_01:See, that's so odd.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's crazy. Bold move. I wanted to have money in the bank, car paid off, books on the dates before I quit. None of that happened. I quit and then all that happened. So I had to have a commitment and a belief. And then the cool stories that happened after that blow my mind to this day. I mean, I had nothing on the calendar. Quit my job the next week. Uh, and uh a guy that I had done a show for had opened his own club and he called me to be a part of his grand opening. I met a headliner who we immediately connected. He didn't have anybody opening for him on the road. I swear to you, in in one week's time, I went from nothing on my calendar sick to six weeks worth of work.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Because I believed that it was gonna work out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, which is incredible. That's so inspiring. Um, I wonder if we could talk a little bit, and maybe this is what Jess was getting at a little bit about the art form itself. So, like improv, we talk a lot about on this podcast. We talk a lot about the rules and breaking the rules and yes anding and listening and you know, giving gifts to your scene partner and all these things that as a beginner you learn in improv classes. Um, I can also think of things, you know, we've talked about, I've taken many of Kat's workshops. They're amazing. You should check them out if she decides we'll see if she just is is talking about doing them again or not. But um, you know, there's a lot of things in stand-up too that are sort of like um things that, you know, kind of rules of the trade, or you know, how to handle a heckler or setup and punch and things like that. So maybe we can dig into a little bit of that in terms of how did you learn? I mean, obviously you are somewhat of a natural and because you just got out there and did it and you know, but like what were there some things that, you know, stories or whatever that you were like, oh, okay, I'm not gonna do that again, or oh, that's how you do that.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so when I went down like cold, 100% cold, I studied for that's the first thing I did. I studied and studied and studied and studied. I took notebooks and sat in the front row at the comedy store. I'm surprised I didn't get kicked out. Sam Kinison, he screams a lot, but he's funny, you know. Like I became a student of other comics. I immersed myself in it. I took a stand-up comedy workshop from a very funny guy by the name of Steve Bluestein. He was a writer for Joan Rivers, very talented writer. I took his class, and then I did I got on stage, and that's what I just kept hearing. Get on stage, stage time, stage time, stage time. Trying to, I guess the thing that the a big difference between improv and um stand-up is that when you're a solo performer, you're really trying to find what your what your persona is, what your identity is, what your what your point of view is. And I know there's points of views in improv too, but it's different. But where improv and where improv really helped me with life, number one, and with stand-up, is you learn to collaborate and connect. And this is what I really drive home in stand-up classes. Like, I don't care how funny you are, how greater writer you are, I don't care if you bought your jokes from you know the head writer at the tonight show. If you don't connect with the audience, doesn't matter. But what do I say? What do I say? You guys used to tease me because I used to say you I changed it from van to bus because you guys used to tease me in class, like it sounded like a like a kidnapper. Like you got to pull up in front of your audience, you got to stop the bus and you got to open up the door and you got to invite them into the bus before you drive, drive out. So that almost that unspoken wonderful connection between the performer, whether it's a group of you on stage or whether it's an is a solo act, you have to find that connection. Yeah, the rest of it just doesn't matter. So the collaboration, connectivity, creativity. Um, what else did improv teach me so much? Um, support. I used to say if the whole world was in an improv troop, there wouldn't be any war. Because everybody has each other's back and there's a support um that is uh inexplicably beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I feel like that's something that as kids, it's almost like we're in an improv, like watching my own kids. They're it's kind of like they're when they're playing pretend, they're yes anding each other all the time without knowing it. And as you grow older, you learn to yes but. And what I notice is when I'm working with newer improvisers, that's something that has to be then trained out of them again, and to kind of teach people to come back and make that connection through agreement. Um, and that's because a lot of adults, they that yes anding has been trained out of them. Even myself, I catch myself doing it all the time.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Conflict, you know.
SPEAKER_02:And that, you know, that always, you know, I forget a lot of the improv lingo, you guys, because really it's been You know, 35 plus years. Um, but that never denying, you know, that always that taking that idea from another person that wasn't your idea, but respecting that person enough to take their idea and then build on the idea and not to deny or deflect. Can you imagine if we did that in interpersonal communication on a daily basis? You're having a big ego fest with somebody, you not see their point of view, but you say to that person, you know, you might be right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know what this reminds me of is when an improv or when a stand-up comedian is speaking with people in the audience or having like a back and forth with someone in the audience. Um, a lot of times it can be like cringeworthy because because the person on stage is just kind of like being mean to the person in the audience. But every now and then there's just this like kind of back and forth that happens with the audience. There's you're like, oh, is that is like before I did improv, I thought, oh, that person in the audience is just funny too. But then I'm realizing, oh no, the the comedian on stage is yes anding that audience person. And then there's a connection, and there's a scene, there's an improv scene happening in the middle of a comedy show that can be hilarious sometimes.
SPEAKER_02:It's beautiful when that synergy happens. And you know, a lot of comics, very, very good comics, they they can't do that. Some comics are very so, you know, their neural pathways with their act are so ingrained that if they stepped out of their act exactly where they were to go free range with the audience, sometimes they can't come back. You know, they can't come back, so they don't ever go, they don't leave. Right. So um, but then there's some very, very gifted performers that um like Paula Poundstone comes to mind.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if you've ever seen her, but she she comes to read a lot, and my gosh, she she's just yeah, really she's just she's brilliant, and and what and I think I'm I'm correct in saying that we're talking about crowd work and and the biz in the stand-up world, that's what it's called. And and basically that all that means is just interacting with the audience and it's spontaneous. And I, you know, in my mind, like taking your workshops, cat, and kind of going through the baby steps of learning how to be a stand-up and all this stuff. To me, in my mind, that is like advanced comedy, stand-up comedy, is to be able to, like you said, step away from your routine and see what happens because you don't, and that's and that's also it's kind of like Jess was saying, it's kind of like maybe there's another example of where improv and and comedy cross, right? Because it is improvised. And you're right, Paula's Paula Bandstone. Paula Bandstone is she's so amazing in that, and I think you're a little like this too, Kat. I don't know, is that she's just so able to be herself no matter what. You know, there's nothing that faith, you know, she can just, and that's what's so incredible to me because I have the tendency to be like, oh, I'm gonna just put on this, like, you know, shoot for you. And now I don't know what to say because I'm not being myself.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, there's this wall, right? There's this, there's this wall that we put up between like how we would interact, just you and me talking, and how we act to an audience. A lot of people put up this wall of, oh, before I answer what they said or before I react, I have to now think about how I want them to react and and and what I can say to to make them have a certain reaction that specifically makes them laugh. And when you're putting that wall up, that adds so much time or so much space between you and the audience, and you're you don't have that genuine kind of connection because you're so worried about the outcome or the getting the laugh that it just all kind of disappears, right? Um, I have that wall even with with improv. I'm working through that, but I recognize it as a wall, like it's something that separates me and the audience is is my concern over how they will react.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's that's like the I'm gonna real quick because I know Kat has a lot to say about this, but and I wanna, but I wanna because one of the concept of the day today is listening. And I brought that as the concept of the day because I think there's a crossover. Um, like I think there's a listening that happens in stand-up and a listening that happens in improv. And I think they both um have to deal with the ego, as as Kat mentioned earlier, like getting out of your own way to make those connections, whether it's listening to your state scene partner in improv and really responding to them instead of being like, what am I gonna say next? That's funny, you know, but listening to them and giving them, you know, that that moment so that you guys can work together, or if it's listening and trying to connect with your audience. So I'd love to hear Kat, like, because I know in in the workshops I've taken you, you talk a lot about this stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Um first I just want to back up just to what Jessica said a little bit and then go on to that. Like what we're talking about is trust, right? We're talking about when a performer is on stage, whether they're a stand-up comic, like let's just say someone's doing crowd work, we'll use Paula. We know that she is in the moment. She is 100% authentic. It is not scripted. You got a whole room full of souls that are go, okay, you're taking me on this magic carpet ride. I don't know where we're going here, but I'm gonna trust you. And that's why if you ever see a performer who um sorry, I don't know how to take that ding off my thing. Uh I'll just make a little, I'll make a little when that happens. I'm happy um suggestion. Um that when you go with the performer, you have uh given them your trust. And it can go both ways, as we all know. Um so yeah, trust is a big thing. Listening, which is why, and and you know, I taught I taught a kid's class, which I don't know if we'll have time to talk about that, but that was a huge part of the class, not only self-esteem building, but it was listening. So I did all these sound games to get people to pay attention. And you know, not all comics can really blend and do an improv troupe because they're really kind of ingrained to it's all about me. And I'm gonna you know the people that always want to upstage a group. There's a certain humility um about being one among many and and being collaborative and supportive and listening. You can't be an improv unless you're listening. You have to listen to your partner, you have to listen to the audience, and again, the audience has to trust. Like, okay, we are in this raw moment. I know these people don't know where they're driving this bus, but I'm I'm going to concede, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna give it up to them and they're gonna take care of me. So there is this beautiful support trust union that happens in in performing, both with improv and stand-up, when an audience gives it up to you. Uh maybe it goes this way with improv too, but in stand-up, like if if a show is not going well and the audience, they don't want to feel that pain. Same with improv audiences. If if if a show is not going well, they kind of ball up a psychic energy and put a wall up because they don't want to feel that pain. They don't want to go down with a burning ship, right? So they will kind of withdraw. But if you can get them back, and the way you get them back is by being calling it, calling the moment, not riding above it and pretending like it's not happening and sweeping the psychic pain under the carpet by calling full attention to like, eh, it's so quiet in here, you could hear a career drop or something. Let them know that you know, because as it transcends to interpersonal communication, like that's that's just BS. That's you know those people. They just I don't see it, didn't happen. I can never trust those people, but you can trust somebody who calls it in the moment and gets it, and then you win them back.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so I don't even know if I answered your question, Jess, about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And I I mean, I just real quick wanna because we've had um Chad Damiani, who is a clown, he's a clown professional clown in LA. He does clown zoo and he's um so we had him on here a couple episodes ago, and we talked a lot about we so in clowning, um, they talk a lot about failing, you know, and flopping. And part of that, I feel like, you know, is that it's not about failing, like literally following, falling on your face and hurting yourself. It's about failing and then acknowledging that failure because we're all then we're all in it together. And I feel like that's similar to what you're saying, right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, I really respect comedians that have the nerve to to do improv and try improv. I know um when I started my level one class, there were a couple of really good local comedians from Reno in that class. Um, and they they were awesome and they were super fun to watch and they were hilarious. So at the at but at the beginning of the class, um we all wanted to watch them because they were so funny. And so we would kind of like let them kind of lead the scene. And that was happened a lot. And kind of as we started learning more about like listening and yes ending and all the the improv stuff, that slowly throughout the class, you saw it starting to shift because they changed and they changed how they um how they did things. And what that did was that gave the rest of us permission to be the funny ones. They were actually like became willing to be the grounded ones that weren't getting the laugh so that the team could get the laugh as a whole. And you saw them grow. I mean, they started out hilarious and awesome, but they became so much more funny and so much more fun to play with um towards the end of that class. And we that class bonded just like so much. Um, because these these comedians that like clearly in the beginning wanted to have the laugh, um were willing to change and willing to to have the big picture happen and and listen. And that was really fun.
SPEAKER_02:See, they trusted you, and so as a comic, they felt like they had to row that boat, they had to save the day, they couldn't stand the silence. They had they were trained to do what we do, right? Um, which is not what you do in improv, but they couldn't help themselves. So as the immersion happened and they began to trust you, they got to settle down and become one among many, which is the whole point. So, what it what and it's a great humility for a comic who's used to being running the show, being the only one on stage. It's like, no, it is not all about you. You know, I find that with some of my classes. I have people, I mean, I have I have people that I can't get off the mic and people I can't get on the mic. And so some people think that they are uh all that in a bag of chips and they deserve a little more time and they no, sorry. I don't care if you went to the Metropolitan and did this, that, or the other thing when you're in my class, you're in my class and you're one student in one seat and you get the same five minutes everybody else does. Bottom line. Right. So yeah. That's a cool story to hear that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think that covers our listening segment, but do we want to um jump into history and we can learn a little bit more about the groundlings, Katie? Okay, um, I mean, basically it's I got it off their website.
SPEAKER_01:So um, yeah, I mean, basically, by the way, if anybody if out there has not seen the groundlings and you're in LA and you have the opportunity, please go see them. It's a it's it's it's an amazing show. It's in this little small theater, they have a live band. You feel like you're watching Saturday Night Live, you know, you're getting like a private viewing or something. And it's only like 10 or 15 bucks a show. It's so worth it. It's it was the best show I saw in LA.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's still going and they've been going since 1974.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So um, and they yeah, so they started off with a guy named Gary Austin. And I think, you know, just like a lot of little theaters like here in Reno, Reno Improv, you know, we just it starts with a bunch of people who wants who who just want to do their craft, you know, they just want to perform and do monologues or do whatever. So it just started off just like that. Um, and um and eventually became a nonprofit. Um, I think Lily Tomlin was one of the people that spearheaded sort of it taking off to a more um uh famous place, I guess. Um, you know, Lauren Michaels at the time produced her show, The Lily Tomlin Show. And for those of you don't know, Lauren Michaels is the one who produces Saturday night live. And then so it soon became um uh a place where you know Saturday night live players got scooped up um by Lauren, and I think it still is, um, as far as I know. Maybe Kat, you know more about this. I don't know. But um, you know, and things very, you know, some people who got their start with the groundlings, Conan O'Brien, who I love, Jimmy Fallon, Doug Shepard, Tyra Banks. It's like Tyra Banks, really an improviser. Um Pee Wee Herman started his show there, which I thought was amazing. I didn't have no idea. Um, and some other SNL notables that came from the Brownlings, um, Will Farrell, John Lovitz, Will Forte, Kristen Wiggs. Those are all my favorites. That's why I listed those.
SPEAKER_00:Um you know, some of those and almost Kat Simmons.
SPEAKER_01:Hello. My dream. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I feel like some of those names that are listed are some of my all-time favorites from the show. Like Jimmy Fallon is a clear comedian who is an amazing improviser. Will Farrell, uh, you know, one of the best comedians ever, that's also an improviser, John Lovitz. Oh my gosh, I cannot get over Will Forte. Anything Will Forte is in. I'm just like, he's silly. He's but he's um versatile, like he can be so many different characters. Yeah. Like a lot of comedians that are specifically in comedy, they can't be multiple characters, like they have their shtick, you know? And I think all of these people I and I haven't actually seen you cat perform. Um, but what I notice about all these characters that they have in common from um the groundlings is that they're very versatile characters. They they don't have one shtick that they're just sticking to, and that's it. They can be funny.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I think John Lovitz, uh, you probably are younger or Jess, you might not remember John Lovitz. I know John Lovitz. I know. Okay, he had his yeah, yeah, that's a ticket, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, he's a very specific person. I'll give you that. May he rest in peace.
SPEAKER_01:Um, anyways, that's the groundlings. I don't know. Do we have anything else to say about that? Um well, I would so just to change the subject a little bit, um I wanted to talk a little bit about um, well, I mean, because what I've learned the most, Kat, from from working with you and and um and also kind of the same thing has come up in um kitty cat. Somebody wants to be a star of the show. Yeah, was that?
SPEAKER_02:I'm sorry, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's okay. It's all right. She's cute. It's it's cat and her cat. Cat and her cat.
SPEAKER_02:So anyway, I'm sorry. One thing for what?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, so um one thing for me personally that I um sort of found both in your workshops and then also um doing improv was this idea of ego and um kind of struggling with that um in terms of where its place is and where its place is not. And um I just I really appreciate that was really something that was like blew my mind when I took your workshops. I didn't really conceptualize my ego in the way that you described it, um, just in terms of like getting on stage and everything like that. But it really stuck with me, not only with stand-up, but then when I got to improv, I was like, oh, just being able, and I'm gonna let you talk about it, Kat, for a little bit, but just being able to identify my ego and when it comes up for me and when it gets in the way and when it's helpful and when it's not helpful, was so like eye-opening to me. And it starts, it started when you, you know, you talked about that that idea of ego and just in performing. So can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_02:I can do my best. Um, I mean, I think you know, if we're human and we're alive on the planet here, we have an ego, and there's no quicker way to uh make friends with your ego or get to know it than per than being a stand-up comic or doing improv or really anything that puts you out there on the line. And you know, we have egos for a reason um to preserve our life. They're you know, uh they're there to keep us here on the planet. Um and when we are threatened in some way, um, and I tell my class this all the time, and it is the truth that public speaking is the number one fear of mankind. And Jerry Seinfeld had a joke about you know, people fear public speaking more than they fear dying. So the person given the eulogy at the funeral was more afraid than the person that just died, and that's true. Like, death isn't even as scary as talking in front of people, and like so it just brings up so much about our human vulnerabilities and frailties. And I I I have dealt with a lot of people who have been uh paralyzed by fear, and that fear is generated by their ego, the fear of the unknown, the fear of failing. What's the worst that can happen? You know, Fanny? People don't laugh, you're gonna die. You're gonna feel crappy? Yeah, you are, but you know, we don't die from being uncomfortable. So I just try to get students to to to be at least like you, Katie. It's not gonna, it doesn't go away, but to be able to bear witness to the egoic um situation that's going on when you're performing, like, oh, that's my ego. That's not the reality of what's happening. That's my ego telling me, oh, this could be really frightening. You know, you're going, you have to trust. And so you guys, I can't tell you how afraid I was to perform. And I still am. I still get really nervous. Um, I swear I'm never gonna do it again because I don't like the feeling. And um, especially since I haven't been doing it so much. But when I realize, when I recognize that that's just my ego talking, that's just my fear talking, and I ooh, I got a lump in my throat. When I ask to be of maximum service and just be a conduit of whatever gifts come from the universe through me and to people and get out of my own way, it makes it so much easier to perform. Um, because then I'm not really in charge. I'm just really I'm just a vessel that it comes through. And that is really super helpful. And so I asked to be of maximum service. And in there are times that maybe maybe the show wasn't a 10, maybe I didn't get fed energetically the way I thought I should have, to where I got that little adrenaline high. Because you know, performing is a high and it's a low too. You know, there's that whole roller coaster. But I remember one night specifically, I was at a club in Texas and I had kind of a suck show. And you know, we always say we're as good as our last show, which uh sometimes it's a long time between shows, so you can change that reality. But this woman came up to me and she had just had a full mastectomy, and she just said, I haven't laughed that hard in a year or so. You know, thank you. And so that night it was just about her. It wasn't about a show, it wasn't about me getting fed, or you know, so I it's not my business really how or who. Takes me in the way they take me in. It's my business just to suit up and show up and do the very best I can. And um you know, those egos can can tear you up. Yeah. But being aware that you're in it puts you a ring away from it. So at least now you're the observer of it instead of being in the eye of the storm. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I love, I would always, and I still, I still do it because I've started um with my improv group, I've started being the host. Surprise. Surprise the stand-up comedian is the one everybody else is like, yeah, go for it. And I'm like, are you sure? Nobody else wants to?
unknown:What?
SPEAKER_01:But um, but uh, you know, I've really I I even for those like couple two minutes of introducing the group and all that stuff, I get a little nervous because now it's all on me. And I always remember your advice um that you give to all pretty much all your students every class is when you get up there, you know, you just take a moment for yourself, you know, and just be present and and just own and just take a moment to own that stage and say, and lots of times you'll say, you know, if you if that ego is telling you in your ear like you're gonna fail or you're not gonna be good, you just say, hey, thank you, but I'm good. You just you just excuse it. And and I I still use that, and it's been it's been really helpful because I mean, yeah, I I mean everybody gets nervous, I think, and um, you know, I get to where I'm like not breathing. You talk a lot about breathing, which yeah, you know, it's like the simple that just presence of mind, um, I think um is so is so helpful. And I do, I do it often helps just that little bit to just my performance, you know, look most of the time. I mean, of course, not all the time, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's good to know that it's good to hear this feedback about you taking things that are applicable that you've taken on, you know, and I'm so so proud of you. You know, I'm so proud of all my students, whether they're 80 or 15, you know, when they go on to to honor their um creativity and and and do uh do things that bring them joy. It makes me so tickled to see you sitting there. And I I'm the one that was in my ego today. I'm typing Katie like, I'm afraid, I don't think I'm gonna know the answers. Like I like to know and I'm a student. And she's like, and I knew it would be fine, but still it's that that moment of ego. But yeah, that taking the beat because I yeah, sometimes miracles are just shifts in perceptions. And I know for me because I'm such a people pleaser, uh, that when I get called onto stage, if I jump right into I'm gonna please you versus this is my time and I am here and I deserve this space on stage. And if I need to take 30 seconds before I start talking, I'm taking it right, you know. Um it just it just is empowering versus disempowering. Yes, so true. One time I was true, I did a show for a whole bunch of doctors at the nugget. To say I was intimidated would be an understatement, but I was so I got up and go, so you guys are all doctors, a whole 350 doctors. And I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna be with you in just a minute. I sat down on my stool. You made them wait.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02:You in a minute. Like, how many times we've been told that in the doctor's office? It was just it set the tone for the whole stage instead of me feeling like, oh god, you know. Um and did they laugh?
SPEAKER_01:They must have laughed.
SPEAKER_02:Did they get it? Yeah, they got it. They totally got it. I said, and if you're don't have, if you're not having to help somebody do, you know, remove an appendix on your phone, you better get off your phones, or I'm gonna come out there and take them away from you. Yeah, it was it turned out to be a really fun show. And that's another that's another good quality for both stand-up and improv, it's not to prejudge an audience ever, no matter what they look like or what part of the country you're in. Every audience shows up with uh a blank slate and to not affix any kind of like I do look at the audience before I go on and I do make some assumptions and judgments, sometimes just like, okay, are they mostly women? Are they mostly men? Are the is it are they younger? Just so that I can kind of get my set list in my head, because I I can change it on a dime if I need to. Um, but to not ever prejudge them. You know, some of the best shows I've had were like I had an all-male show of um, they were all engineers. What am I gonna have to say to these guys? Well, these guys could not even figure out how to turn off their video. Um, they had like a PowerPoint thing. They were all around their ties, like, I don't know how to do this, do you bother? And it again, I was like, please, we're all just human. And then I had a show a while ago up, um, I won't even say where it was all women, and I thought, oh, this is going to be a shoe-in. It was a nightmare. Everything went sideways, everything from the logistics to the anyway. So don't prejudge. Yeah, and and and that's a good lesson for life too, right? Don't judge people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh, totally. And you don't know what people are thinking. I mean, I think a couple uh few weeks ago, I had we did an improv show, and uh we had we had a real quiet audience, just like very little laughs, and you know, it there could have been a bunch of different reasons why. Maybe we weren't that funny. Maybe, maybe they weren't loud laughers, you know, maybe they were new to improv and they were like long form, which can be if you've never seen long form, for some people that's it's it's they're just trying to figure it out. So they were just, but but what you don't know is, you know, maybe they were really enjoying it, but they just you know, they weren't vocal about it or whatever, they were just more of a quiet, shy audience. But so I think in that regard too, it's like you just never know. Um, like that woman that came up to you after that show that you thought sucked, and she was like, You just you know, opened, created so much joy for me. So it's like you just never know.
SPEAKER_02:We never know, and you know, and I know that this is inherent in all performers. You know, you can have a room full of a thousand people and they're laughing, but there's that one. Right, that's where you're now. I will say I've gotten much better at this because I've had stuff happen like this so many times where the one person that's scowling and like this, you know, like I can't please you enough right now. And and my people-pleasing tendencies and my codependence is off the charts because this one person's not happy. Now I got 990 people over here laughing. So, but over time you you learn to just like I tell you guys to find a friendly face, just and then I can't tell you how many times I have found out that that person with that face, this happened a couple of years ago at a retirement home thing I did. Oh my god, this guy, he just looked so so out of it and not happy to be there. Well, he had very severe Alzheimer's, he could not understand what was happening. His wife came up to me afterwards and said, Oh, you were so funny, and you know, uh don't worry about him. He just, you know, not well. And then I've had victims, honest to god, stroke victims that couldn't express themselves. I just pretend like they've had a stroke and they can't laugh, you know. Like there you go. Hearing impaired people, foreign people, yeah, but just whatever you do, don't ever ask anybody when they're due for the baby. Just please don't ever oh my god, that's terrible. Did that did that once never will repeat that.
SPEAKER_01:No. Well, the I was gonna say too, the opposite can happen with audiences where it's just like you can do no wrong. And or um, we talk a lot about this in stand-up, which I think is true also in improv, is that if you get them right off the bat, the first couple jokes or whatever, and they and they fall in love with you in those first five minutes. I mean, you pretty much can't you can get to a point, would you agree, Kat, where you can't you can say anything at that point and they think you're hilarious.
SPEAKER_03:You can't shake.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What's that? You can't shake. No. So I mean that and that's awesome too, where it's just like you win them over those first couple jokes.
SPEAKER_02:So like building momentum of it. And and one thing, I don't know if this happens in improv the way it doesn't stand up, but what I have found on those shows that go way high energetically, and my adrenaline's pumping is like you have to find your center, whether you have a really low show or a really high show, because if I have a really high show and I my energy starts to match theirs and I get too escalated, yeah, I my timing can get off and I can get a little, you know, so they can, and then that's really powerful. Like when you just stand down and you don't have to match them energetically necessarily, you let them go and then you bring them back. And in stand-up, anyway, it can also be almost feels merciless sometimes. Like if you if you're on a roll and rolls are really fun, right? You've got a roll and it's just pound, pound, pound, and you've got them, got them, got them. A little voice comes in, it's like, just give them a beat here. You're not gonna lose the role, let them breathe because you're in control, right? Like you're in control of them being out of control, they're out of control because they're laughing and you are it's beautiful, but it's like stay centered, stay centered. Same with acting, too. You know, you either the you're either in control of the emotion or the emotion's in control of you. So here again, it's about finding your your your center on stage and staying there.
SPEAKER_00:No, I noticed um when when Katie was talking about what you said with you know, separating yourself and you know, talking to your emotion, uh, and what you just said now, there's there's that like separation between you and and the emotion. And when you can identify yourself and your creativity as your own and identify with that instead of identifying with the fear or the um, like you said, the role or the excitement, that that's when that's when you're really centered. And I think that that that's what it is. And it's the same thing when you were talking about the ego, it was okay, this is happening around me, but it's not me. It's not who I am, it's not it's not what I am in this moment, and I can't let it overtake me. Um I think that not only in comedy is that kind of the key to being at peace with yourself, but just like in life in general, too. Like you'll be a much more peaceful person if you can just learn to separate yourself from the emotions of the ego.
SPEAKER_02:You got it. So that's art imitates life. Life, I mean, it it's a it's an inherent uh skill that um to not be uh to not to not believe everything you think. You know, you can have the thoughts to put distance and say, this is not the truth of who I am. I mean, you guys, I've had such brutal experiences on. Can I tell you? Can I tell you one brutal experience?
SPEAKER_03:Please.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so one of the very first early shows I ever did, I got myself in way over my head. I got a show at Caesars, and I was opening for Diane Ford, and I'd only been in the business about a year and a half.
SPEAKER_01:This is down in Vegas.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Caesars up at the lake when Oh, up at the lake, okay, Lake Tahoe.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02:It all started for me. That's where I saw Tim Stack and the Gramlings. And I I mean, I'd see there was a comedy night up there, and I saw brilliant comics. I fell in love with. I mean, once I got hooked, I was I I was and um so we were uh I was opening for her, and one night it just wasn't going good at all. And my mouth got so dry. My and you could hear in in the mic, and I felt like my arms and legs had been cut off, and somebody threw me in the deep end of the ocean. It was so horrifying. Out from behind the stage curtain comes a bottle of water. Thank God. So I I plowed through the rest of that, it was horrible. The next day we're at a little boutique, and um, this woman comes up to Diane, the woman I had opened for, and um, she says, Oh my god, you were so funny last night. I enjoyed you so much, but that other girl, oh god, and I'm standing right there, she doesn't see me. And I went into the dressing room and sobbed. Oh sobbed. And then I went back to the hotel that night and I thought, I gotta do this all again now tonight. And I'm just a baby comic, you know, and I got myself in a little over my head. I was either really confident or stupid, I'm not sure which, but I've just my first demo out. Hey, you know, anyway. But um, you know, you have to go through those. You have there's no way if you're gonna be a stand-up comic or it in improv, I'm sure it's a little different because you guys have each other to kind of absorb the pain, but that pain is um it doesn't feel good, but well, you know, it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I had to kind of pull myself up that as I had to go on stage again that night with hearing her going, but that other girl, she was horrible. I could laugh at it five years later, but uh there was a lot of those, a lot of those things that happened in the way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's and that's I mean, that's what I think is so difficult about stand-up. I mean, everybody's different, um, but it's those just those painful moments, you know, and to re and to be able to recover from those and get back up. I mean, it's it's it's one of the hardest things I I have had to do in my life, which sounds silly because life is hard, but I get it. But you know, it's just putting yourself out there and then fee having that feeling that of rejection and like I'm a people pleaser too, right? So it's just it's so it just hits you so hard.
SPEAKER_00:Go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna ask if you guys wanted to put yourselves out there and play a game. Yeah. So if you wanted to finish what you were saying, we'll play a game afterwards.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. I don't know how to play any games anymore, but you guys will tell me what to do. I trust you. You trust me.
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, I trust myself, but we're gonna do it anyway. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is a real it's a real simple one. It's they play it on whose line is it, and everybody, I mean it's I it's it's very I feel like it's one of those improv games that everybody plays at the beginning. Um, so it's the everything answered in questions. You've played this, right?
unknown:Kat?
SPEAKER_01:Everything answered in questions? No. Oh, okay. Well, it's it's basically what it sounds like. Um so basically uh there'll be uh a suggestion, and then two people will do a scene based on that suggestion. Um, and everything has to be in a question form. So do you wanna do you wanna start? Um, and so Kat can see how it goes. Please, yeah, show me and then we'll throw it to Kat. So Kat, um, can we just get a suggestion of a place of work? A place of work, the pool. Okay, the pool.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so we're at the pool. Are there any yellow life jackets left?
SPEAKER_01:Do you know what they are?
SPEAKER_00:I'm trying to figure it out. You see, I lost. So every sentence has to be a question. I had a sentence. So we made it three lines.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, like let's do Jummer. Let's do Jumber.
SPEAKER_00:Um are you taking swimming lessons? Are you taking diving lessons? Where's the floating? Where's the bunny? It's the same as the floating. What's the name of the bunny? Uh wasn't it head or bread or Ned?
SPEAKER_01:Is that your grandson flailing about in the pool?
SPEAKER_00:Is it my grandson? It it looks like it has fins.
SPEAKER_01:Is your grandson a fish? I'm already judging my performance. My ego is like, this is stupid. I was gonna bless it. You know how many people pee in that pool? Get out.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'll give you guys I'll give you guys another suggestion why the two of you play it. All right. Um, okay, so um uh the music hall.
SPEAKER_02:Hey Katie, oh go ahead, who's starting? You're starting? Sure. Are you playing are you playing the violin? Are you crazy? You think this is a violin? What shape is that? What shape does it look like to you?
SPEAKER_01:Are you insulting my mother?
SPEAKER_02:Why are you bringing your mother into this? Where are you going with this? Where do you want me to go with this? Why are you so difficult? Why are you judging me?
SPEAKER_00:That wasn't supportive, right? I but it's hard, it's hard to be supportive when you have to keep answer asking questions. And like in improv, asking questions is like a no-no, is a new no. So I think part of this game is figuring out how do you ask questions and also be able to still give gifts because a lot of times questions can be denials. Oh, and but it's really hard, and that it's an advanced. I I they they do it in in beginner improv um because it is it's important, but it really is an advanced skill to be able to ask questions in a way that's supportive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I didn't feel like I was being supportive, but I didn't know where else to go with my responses.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, but think about when when you're on stage, if you're asking quest questions to the audience, you know, like asking questions that have implications in them. Right. So, so um yeah, just just trying to somehow put an implication into a question is really hard because because a question can often be a denial. And maybe even when you're in your interpersonal relationships, think about the questions that you ask. And do those questions um support or do not? Like a lot of times I'll ask my kid, is like, is this what you think clean is?
SPEAKER_01:You know, so yeah. Like, but see, but that's even that is is uh is is showing what kind of relationship you have with your son, right? So to me, that's actually good. And then that's why also like I tried to introduce like a relationship to like, you know, are you insulting my mother? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I was right, but it's yeah, how does she respond to that? Yeah, um, you know, like how does she say yes in the form of a question? Um so yeah, so that's I mean it's tough, and I think it's something that takes a lot of practice. Yeah, even I'm not getting it yet, but I trust you. Um do we have any more questions on the topic of the day? Trying to find my notes here.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I guess I guess what I would just maybe as a last question, um, Kat, and I know you said it's been a while since you um done improv on a regular basis and stuff. So I don't know, uh, but it would in your mind, are there skills that improv has helped? Helped with stand up, or are there skills from stand up that you feel like like if to for our listeners, um, if they have dabbled or if they're into improv and they're thinking about trying stand up, you know, is there is there a crossover or there is there is does one genre help the other? What do you think?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. It's like asking is, you know, is is running helpful for playing um baseball or football? It's like it's a skill. It's learning. I think that, you know, because I did, I kind of started both of them at the same time. I did improv not for very long. I was probably in improv group for maybe a year, and then I went on the road doing stand-up. But those improv skills build more trust to color outside the lines with audience and to trust those interactions that are spontaneous, that aren't scripted. Because if you have enough interaction doing improv and finding the creative spark that happens between audience and performer, you know that that can happen again as a stand-up. I know that there are, and I used to I used to work with a couple um uh jazz caner and uh who was it? Uh at the end of our comedy show, we would go up on stage and play improv. And I would always be terrified to do it, but I would always do it. And I couldn't say no. And but it was it's it's a whole different skill set, but I think obviously doing stand-up comedy would definitely help your improv because you know, you they both have beginning, middle, and ends. They both involve connection, collaboration, and creativity. I think there's a lot of beautiful synergy between the two. Um, I think each one is a training ground for the other. So absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, cool.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um where would we find you if we wanted to people wanted to go out and take your classes if you have them coming up, or find you and see you perform? Where would they go?
SPEAKER_02:They would find me at my website, uh, which is Katsimmons.com, K-A-T-S-I-M-M-O-N-S. My phone number's on there. I don't have a date right now because it seems like everybody that didn't get married in the last two years in my family is getting married. And every time I turn around, I've got to go to a wedding somewhere. So I don't have dates, but I'm I'm working up to it. I will teach again. I mean, gave me a sound system for God's sake. It's in my wagon in the garage. My whole career is in a little wagon. And um, yeah, that's all they find me. And I wrote a book and that's on Amazon. Yeah, yeah. What is that? What is that book called? Kat? I don't know. I don't know what it is. Uh, what is it? I forget I wrote it. See, I forget something. Cats Cats Daily Cups, and that's on Amazon. And that's a whole other side of me. Um, that just involves, you know, different areas of my life. And they're just little short writings. It's a perfect little ADD tape coffee table book. You can see pick it up anywhere you want. It doesn't matter. You don't have to read it front to back, you don't have to remember what you read the page before it's perfect. Um, but you'll find me sitting in my chair looking at the mountains here in beautiful Gardnerville, wondering what I'm gonna do the rest of my house.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was it was really, really good to meet you. And I just want to say thank you for being on our podcast. And also thank you for what you do because talking with Katie about taking your class and and obviously from what you said today, you are a person who inspires people to get past themselves and get out of their comfort zone. And I think the world needs so much more of that, and and we're super inspired by you and grateful that you came on the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:It's my greatest joy to really be able to help people do that. So thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, all right, and see Ambro.
