For The Love of Improv
For The Love of Improv
Justin Kavanagh | Processing Grief & Trauma
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We all have to deal with complex emotions regarding loss and tough situations at some point in our lives. In this episode, we talk with Justin Kavanagh about how we can use improv off-stage to process those feelings and work through the grief and trauma life throws at us.
Today's game explores how we listen to and respond to emotions on stage.
In our history segment, we will chat about Del Close, and how he views the process of emotional connection with and through the audience.
Today's concept is playing to the top of your intelligence - learning how to play low-status characters intelligently and with humanity.
This episode is dedicated to Brad Vance - our friend and a fellow player who left life's stage all too early. We miss you!
Visit ForTheLoveOfImprov.com for more!
Let's rock and roll.
SPEAKER_03:Improv Improv Woo. For the love of improv. Oh my goodness. This is improv. We just love it.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome, everyone, to the third episode of For the Love of Improv. I'm Katie Welsh here with Jess Wicks. That's me. And uh we're gonna have a really exciting show today, aren't we, Jess? We sure are.
SPEAKER_06:Um today is an extra special show, actually. It is. Um we are dedicating today's show to the one and only Brad Vance, who our Reno improv community lost last weekend. Um he was an amazing comedian. He was on the comedy circuit with Katie. He was in improv classes with me, and he was also a screenwriter, an artist, and just an all-around amazing person. So we're gonna do our thing and have a great time all for him today, doing what he loves best, creating. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:And um we're here with uh Justin Kavanaugh. Hello, Justin.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thanks for being here. And um, Justin's here to talk about kind of a timely topic. Um, since we just had one of uh one of our own pasts, uh, we're gonna be talking a little bit about improv and how it can help us with grief and trauma. So um a little bit about Justin himself. He just moved here from St. Louis, Missouri. So uh he's only been here in Reno for six months, but he's been doing improv for about 10 years. He started back when he was a teen. Um, and most recently, in the past three or four years, he's been teaching and coaching and getting back into playing at Reno Improv. Um, so we'll we're really excited to talk to Justin today.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and before we get started, Justin, um and our listeners, our lovely listeners, we are doing a little disclaimer. We are not experts. In fact, we are in fact, I'm a beginner. Um, Katie's been doing it a little while longer. Justin's been doing it for 10 years, but even at 10 years, there's still more to learn.
SPEAKER_00:You never, that's what I love about it, because you never, I don't feel like you can ever master it. There's always something new you can learn.
SPEAKER_06:Exactly, exactly. So our disclaimer is we're not experts, we're all students, and we invite you at whatever level you're at to come with us and listen and learn. And that's just the great part of what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, Jess and Justin, we're here for the love of improv. That's right. That's basically all it's about.
SPEAKER_00:I love that song, by the way. It's a jam.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's a total jam. To Amorphia. She does a link.
SPEAKER_02:She's amazing. She really is.
SPEAKER_06:Link in the show notes to her. Um yeah, so let's talk a bit about what you're gonna get out of the show.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so real quick, um, so we're gonna talk to Justin, obviously, today. So we have some questions and topics to discuss with him. Um, but we also have a couple segments. So uh we have a history segment, and I always like to say it's not boring. At least I really try my best not to be boring. Um, and then um Jess likes to introduce a concept of the day so that we can discuss uh tips and tricks and how to become better improvisers.
SPEAKER_06:Today we're gonna talk about playing to the top of our intelligence uh with Justin. That's something he knows a lot about, and he's gonna share it with us. And yeah, you're gonna get so much out of the show today, so keep on listening. All right. So, to get started, Justin, we put our guests through a series of very uncomfortable questions so we can figure out who you are. Yes. Okay. Uh so um, something silly and unstandard. What is the most interesting superhero to you?
SPEAKER_00:I think the most interesting superhero by far is Xeno Warrior Princess.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_00:From that show in the 90s. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00:She's got the classic superhero tragic backstory. You know, she is estranged from her mother, and her her brother was um lost under under tragic circumstances, and it it causes her to withdraw and isolate and turn evil. She becomes a pirate and a mercenary. But then she comes out of it and she realizes that she has all of these things, these skills and these fighting talents that she can do good with. And she kind of comes out of this isolation that she's put herself in and realizes that she can do good instead of being lost in her own uh her own grief, actually.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my god, look at you, you're so timely. Like, yes, this is the perfect superhero for our topic today.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like she and Wonder Woman have a lot because they're both Amazons, right?
SPEAKER_00:Um I think Zena was ancient Gre well a fictionalized ancient Greece, but similarly. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Just the way she dresses for the Amazon.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't think it was a historical documentary. No artistic liberty with the costuming and some other things. But yeah, she's just a really compelling character who turns or turns things around on her own and and of her own desire to be a better person.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah gosh, I am channeling the Xeno warrior princess from now on. I love those dark characters that come into the light. Come into the light. Um, okay, so moving right along. Why did you go to your first improv class and what kept you coming back?
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, it's kind of a it's a two-part story, so I'll sh I'll make the short version. Uh comedy has always been kind of a coping mechanism for me, even since I was little. Um, comedy and food. And um my my family, like the situation of my family, we just kind of drifted for several years, kind of from one crisis to the next. And my sisters, I have two older sisters, we all have our own coping mechanisms, and mine, I just started really getting into comedy. I would stay up late and watch Conan O'Brien or go to Blockbuster and rent comedy videos and and watch them, and that was something that kind of I don't know, it was just a great way to to escape. Um, so as I got older and wanted to get into comedy, I kind of realized I could make people laugh sometimes. So that's why I started doing improv the first time. But why I fell in love with it wasn't until later when in my 20s I got back into it, and I started taking all the things from the classes I was in and taking them out into the world and into my life and trying to see them everywhere I was going, you know. Any kind of any gr agreement and and um you know, collaborating, listening, dealing with unexpected things, and I I applied them and I saw try to see them everywhere. And then I came back into the classes and the performing I was doing, and it not only made my life better, but I became a better performer through that process. And that's why I fell in love with improv, and that's why I wanted to start teaching it and as as well as performing improv because that kind of roundabout way that I discovered or that I fell into um just made so much sense to me and and made such an impact on my life, and it was actually the impact on my life that made me a better performer. Oh wow, and that's why I love it, and that's why I'll do it for the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I feel like there's uh a common thread with a lot of people we talk to, and I know Jess and I have talked about our own personal reasons of getting into improv, and it's just that like, and I know this happens with a lot of different arts, but I feel like there's something unique to improv, and maybe I'm biased, you know, possibly. Um, but that you know, because it's so live and in the moment, just like life that you it's so easy to start making those connections to like, oh wait, I can apply this to my own personal life too, or you know, if I have social anxiety, or using it as some sort of coping mechanism. You know, it's like so that's why that's why I love improv too, and just and I have talked a lot about that before, too, about those connections.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_06:It's made a huge impact on my life in the same way that it's it's not about what I do on stage, it's about having you know those two, three hours a week that I get to go and just be silly and play. And you know, if I'm good and people like it, that's awesome. But really, it's about me and my journey. And and yeah, people will say, Oh, hey, you're you're much more personable, you know, than I remember. And like, you know, you commit you command a room uh a lot more than I need you more. Yeah. No, I mean a corner. I used to be kind of, yeah, in my own corner to never been a bitch. That is not true at all. It's not true. I've never been a bitch to you. Oh something to look forward to.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it's instantly applicable, I think. You can take something from your class and see it in the world that day or the next day. And just I I think Tina Faye in her book um writes about that. She's like, when I get into a meeting with people, like a business meeting, it's just when somebody's like, no, we don't have the budget for that. We don't have time, it's it's like, why not? Why, you know, what if we did? Yeah. You know, how what would we do if we did? Yes and those people. How can we yes and I and I love that. I think that taking those little things, those performance things that we do on stage and using them and and trying to find them outside of improv outside of the studio or the theater is the best way to learn and practice and grow as a performer.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that's like, oh, okay. Let's we're gonna start by kind of getting the juices flowing about this topic because I know that it can be it can be a tough topic when you're going through str stress and and trauma of like, how how am I going to wrap my mind around what's happened and how am I going to when I go through it, I kind of feel as it's like, okay, there's this deep emotion that's always going to be there, but I've got to get over this hump. Um, and it's something that I get through rather than um avoid or avoid. Yeah, right. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I mean, I'll everything I say kind of I'll talk about me and my own experience. And everybody's, you know, grief is such an individualized thing that everybody processes differently. So I can give my own examples. Um, but if you see yourself in it or if you see, well, that's not me, doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just, you know, my own kind of interpretation of how it works.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Personally, when I am dealing with um trauma or a situation or, you know, anxiety, anything like that, my first impulse is to vanish, to just disappear. Um, and there lit literally have been places that I've just never gone back to because it was so it just was so disturbing or so upsetting that it it's kind of it's not the correct mindset really, because you're like, I'm not gonna put myself in that position, even though whatever might have happened to you had nothing to do with you. It wasn't your fault. Right. But the way that we kind of work our brains through, it's like, well, I'm just gonna avoid creating any kind of circumstance like that. And for the longest time in my life, you know, I I went from places to places, and you know, something would happen, or something would would go wrong, or or or something terrible would happen, and and I would just be like, Well, I'm that's it, I'm never going back to that. I'm never gonna interact with those that group of people. And and that's really not a healthy way to deal with it. It's just avoidance. And in improv, you are it's collaboration is baked into it. You you you can't really do improv by yourself, or if you do, it's you know, you know, you're gonna fulfill your improv potential.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, and I'm gonna I'm gonna interrupt you real quick. Um, because I think the I think too, we talk a lot about emotion in improv. Like that's just a given in improv. I mean, if you have ever taken an improv class or get any uh especially long form, um, you know, you that is one of the explicit topics that you talk about. Um, and so this is just a way for us to introduce a game that we're about to do, and then we'll continue our discussion later about because you were getting into some good stuff. Um so so yeah, so we have this. Just I'm gonna have you introduce this because this is something that you sort of came up with, right?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, well, I can't take 100% credit for it. Um I halfway took it off the internet and I halfway took it um uh was inspired by Emily Scyle.
SPEAKER_02:I took an amazing workshop with Emily Skile this weekend and um Yeah, and Emily Skile is a local filmmaker who's she's actually made it to the uh Cannes Film Festival and she also um she also heads the uh Cordillera Film Festival here that just happened like a month ago here in Reno. So yeah, she's awesome, and so she's also an acting coach and right, she's an acting coach, she's also an improviser.
SPEAKER_06:She um she is on the comedy collective team that you can go see at the Reno Tahoe Comedy Underground.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and I think that's every first Friday. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. You should definitely check it out. It's awesome in short form, but it's so entertaining, hilarious, great players, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, she's an amazing performer, amazing teacher. So I kind of took, she was working a bit on emotion, so I kind of took a little bit from her, a little bit from the internet. So this game I'm calling emotional baggage. Um, it can be called whatever. Um, so basically, there we're each going to have a role and we're each gonna play that role one time. Um, I've written some down some lines that we're going to read. And basically, so player one, Sam player one, I'm going to assign player two, an emotion, and a recent situation that happened to them. And we want to make it a complex emotion, not just like sad or happy, something interesting. And then using that emotion and keeping that backstory in your mind, you will then deliver the line. I have three lines written down, and making eye contact with player three. Now, player three, two, and player three are going to have an interaction using eye contact. Player three is going to respond with the line he's given or she's given based on how he received the emotion from player two. And then we're gonna go around the circle three times and that'll be the game. Sweet. Okay, so I am going to assign um you with you, Katie. I will assign you with the emotion uh fear. And let's say you recently um you recently got in a car accident and your body hurts all over. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So then now I'm gonna do that.
SPEAKER_06:So now with that in mind, yeah, you can take take a minute, absorb that. With that in mind, have this interaction with a random person for the first one.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm sorry. Um credit card has been declined. And um sorry, just give me a second. Um I need another form of payment.
SPEAKER_00:That's not possible.
SPEAKER_02:What do you mean? I I just I need another form of payment. I I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you. Your credit card has been declined, sir. Oh dear God.
SPEAKER_00:I think I I I you know what I'm all set. Thanks. I'll I'll have a good day. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_06:Improvs.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't know if we were supposed to keep going. I liked it. It was great.
SPEAKER_06:That was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:That was like 50s, like melodramatic.
SPEAKER_00:If I didn't know your backstory as the customer, I would think, yeah, why the hell is she so upset about my credit card?
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Um something else. And that you know what? And that brings a good point. I mean, maybe we should do the debrief afterwards, but um, you know, that brings up a good point, right? In terms of empathy, right? Because you see we have exchanges with strangers and people we don't know every day. And sometimes you walk away scratching your head, going, What is it something I said, or what's going on? And and and lots of times, you know, people are going through different things that we don't know about. Like maybe they just had a serious car accident or whatever. So yeah.
SPEAKER_06:All right, so you get to assign a situation to Justin.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, um, Justin, your emotion is social anxiety, and um you just tripped getting on stage in front of 500 people at a wedding that you just attended. I like it.
SPEAKER_00:There is there is no way we will make it in time.
SPEAKER_06:It's better late than never.
SPEAKER_00:If we miss the start of the reception, we won't get any cake.
SPEAKER_06:Cake is uh not of importance to this situation. Okay, so the first two lines are scripted, the other ones were totally improvised. Maybe on grid.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe you all of you listening at home, you might be able to tell when we go off script. Um Jesse, you are your emotion is nostalgia. And it's it's the your situation is that it's the end of it's like nine o'clock at night on Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, okay. But I'm an adult.
SPEAKER_00:That's up to you.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, sorry. I reread the line and now I'm reading into my line. So I don't do it anyway, because that's the point of this. Okay. I'm a big kid now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're uh big kid now. Yeah. That's good.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so I don't know how that I don't know how that game comes off so much over the air.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a little hard because uh there are there is some eye contact.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot going on that's that's silent.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that we could we could awkwardly narrate. And now Jess is looking at me intensely with puppy dog eyes, but she's nodding her head. Yeah, so but um, but yeah, well, we can talk about a little bit like what's what's the point of that game? What did what why did you choose that game? I think what made you well inspired you.
SPEAKER_06:Well, Emily's workshop inspired me, to be honest. We were talking about emotions and how really creating a scene is that feels real and feels right to the audience. They have to be able to relate to that emotion that you're having. So if you in your mind have a preconceived idea of what your emotion is gonna be and how you're going to react before the person delivers the line, it's not going to seem real to the audience. I see. So you can still keep that core emotion that, hey, I'm mad at this person, or oh, I love this person, but the way that you deliver that anger, that love is going to be different based on how they came to you. So it's really important that you listen. And when we're talking about grief and trauma, I think that this game is particularly important because listening, learning how to listen and not thinking ahead to what you're gonna say next is a really good tool to being present in the moment. And if you're present in the moment, you're you're not thinking about the past and what you lost or the future and what you won't have, you're dealing with what's right here and what what's right now. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I I mean, I don't know what you think, Justin, but to me, that authenticity um can be scary. And because you're letting go, I think, I think um for me anyway, uh, you know, when you like you're saying, like thinking ahead about what you're gonna say next, or if it's somebody in distress, like somebody who's grieving or maybe gone through a trauma, you're thinking, oh, how can I help this person? How can I help this person? Right. But it's like that's kind of also like you trying to take control of the situation and not just letting it be, and maybe thinking about, well, maybe that person just needs to let it. Out and then you're you just need to be a human being.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and your idea of sadness or anger or how you process it is different from how I do and how Jesse does. And so that's a really interesting way to tie into that game because your your nostalgia, the way you performed it, is necess not necessarily how I gifted it to you, or you know, and and all of that. And when you're dealing with, you know, some people when they grieve, they're very angry for a while, or they're just so depressed, or um very sad, or or some people try to find the funny in it. And and when you're not familiar with how individuals process those really complex emotions, it can seem really jarring. Like, why why are you making a joke about this? Or why are you so angry about this? And having that emotional sensitivity really goes a long way to have that empathy uh and to be able to just yeah, like you said, uh Katie, just be present and supportive, however that means to that person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, and I think I think key too here, which um uh it's also about not coming from a judgmental place. Absolutely. And I think that every time or many times when a scene is not going well for me, it's because not all the time, but sometimes it's because I'm coming from a judgmental place and I'm going, well, this is not this is not happening. Right. This is going terribly. And then my ego fear ego comes in and it's like, you need to get the hell out of stage. Or you need to shut this person down, or you need to take control instead of just to borrow what Rosowski always says, instead of just sitting in it, just being in that moment. And if you're having that emotion, then lean into that maybe, you know, and make it part of the scene or whatever.
SPEAKER_06:Or also be aware of how your character would handle that emotion. So don't be afraid to pause for a minute and let that emotion sink in so that you can deliver that emotion with authenticity rather than it coming off freaking see the door unreal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because my first instinct is just to like fill up the space. So I think it's really important to just let that let let a let space or let a pause so that you can really sure.
SPEAKER_06:But that's actually something I love about being on stage with a judge and see that it does give you space to think um a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, anybody who's either performed with me or seen me perform would say that I'm I'm definitely a slow burn. Um but I like to start getting slow. I I I can do the the the high excitement and the speed, I but it takes me a little while to get up to that. And so definitely I enjoy starting something slow and and building it gradually and allowing those moments.
SPEAKER_02:I I love there's there's nothing more satisfying than when somebody says a line and then you just have that two seconds or three seconds of eye contact to just let it grow and marinate, and you know, the audience can oh they're feeling it gives it gravity in a way, it makes it important if you well, and you know, we've talked a lot about tension and comedy, and so tension and comedy is so important, and you want that build and that silence, sometimes just looking at each other intensely. The audience is like, like you said, they're like, Oh, what's gonna happen? Who's the board are they gonna say?
SPEAKER_00:This is important to them for some reason, and now I care too. Right. Even if it's the you know most insignificant thing.
SPEAKER_06:Exactly. Well, yeah, actually, I'm not sure where I heard this, but I was doing speech classes, I was doing Toastmasters, and they were saying, okay, how do you build importance in a scene? And one of the things is that the more time that you take before you deliver your line, the more important that that part seems. If you speed up, it seems less important. If you slow down, interesting is more important. So if you're trying to convey that whatever I say next is really important, then it's going to feel to the and you take a long time, it's gonna feel to the audience that that next thing that comes out of your mouth is really important. And sometimes that can be hilarious. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh that's one of the things I love is just taking whatever somebody said that I'm performing in the scene and just acting like that's the most important thing I've ever heard. Or that's the most, you know, earth-shattering moment or news or bit of information.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And and being able to play that, especially if it's something ridiculous. Right. Take the jam out of the fridge. The jam? You know, like it can be anything, but then suddenly there's something else. Yeah, and then it's yeah, and then it becomes about well, the the jam is a metaphor for us. Right.
SPEAKER_06:I love that's our jam. Oh my gosh. That that actually reminds me, because I'm just gonna keep going into all the stuff you're reminding of me of, is um a concept Diana Martin was teaching in one of my classes, which is don't be afraid to take what that person just said and repeat it. And yeah, like don't be worried about what he said five lines ago. What was the last line he said, and what is important right now about what was just said in that last line?
SPEAKER_00:That's a great strategy. I like that.
SPEAKER_02:Diana Martin, by the way, is uh one of the teachers at Reno Improv. She also performs on AOP and Reno Improv team, AOP and was she on I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:What else did I do? I think no. I'm not sure. We will put it in the show. We'll find out before I put it in the show.
SPEAKER_02:She's one of the longtime improvisers, though, from Reno Improv.
SPEAKER_06:She's been there from the beginning. And amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, yeah, so yeah, so let's get to uh some discussion topics and questions. Um so yeah, so today's topic is um how improv can help us with grief and trauma. So um I can you share, Justin, any personal stories? And I mean, I don't, you know, I want you to feel comfortable with whatever you want to share, but but why? I mean, you really I think drove this topic. I think we always ask our guests like, is there something that you want to talk about? And I think right that you were the one that were like, oh yeah, this is the topic for me. So so what inspired you to want to talk about this?
SPEAKER_00:It was something that I feel really passionately about. It's something I've gotten a lot of benefit from doing improv to work through things that are difficult or that I'm not able to work through any other way, but I've also seen it seen improv transform the lives of other people that I've either performed with or taught or learned with. And life is hard. You know, life is if you you know, life is a lot of suffering and life is a lot of difficult situations, and we're all trying to get through those things to try and figure out what happens next. And a lot of times we can go, you know, people have periods in their life where they go from one grief to the next, you know, and and being able to find a supportive group of people, being able to play, being able to laugh is so important in that appealing process. And in my own experience, um I you know, I have a couple a couple stories of of laughter and in the midst of that, you know, terrible grief. Um my my grandfather died uh several years ago, but he died eight days before Christmas. And so we all kind of descended on my grandmother's house and the tree was up, and there was no, you know, it was just really you you when you're grieving like that or something happens to you like that, you kind of step out of time for a short while, you know, and and there's this all this moment, and my I have an aunt who made this big Dutch oven of chili. She's like, it's great, we'll just keep it on the stove if anybody's hungry. And my grandma's like, no, nobody is eating any chili. I am not going to your father's wake, and everybody has gas because I've been eating chili. And it was just this moment. Wow. It was just this wonderful moment. Right? And just and and and it it didn't stop, and nobody stopped grieving, nobody stopped feeling hurt, but it just was so wonderful to be able to share a laugh and and have that moment of of lightness in some in a moment that's so heavy. And that's what I love about improv is that um there's a great book called Healing Improv by a guy named Bart Sumner, and he um is an improviser.
SPEAKER_04:He lost his 10-year-old son.
SPEAKER_00:And oh wow, yeah, and um uh he kind of used improv to get back to it, and he talks about in his book the first time he started performing again. And it was, you know, he he felt the weight of his grief up until the moment that he started performing, and it started right after he stopped. But he says during that 90 minutes that I was on stage, it wasn't an overwhelming feeling, it was a real it was an escape, it was a release. He was with a group of supportive people who were there for him and was able to play and and having those moments of joy and and happiness, it doesn't negate the grief, it doesn't make it go away, but it helps move it along and it helps you be able to exist in it a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, um I always reference my comedy, my stand-up comedy teacher Kat Simmons, who is um, she teaches classes. She's actually actually about to teach another class in October. Um, but her classes are less about stand-up comedy technique and more about drawing comedy from a place that may be a little painful, a place of struggle, a place of grief, a place of, you know, life is hard, right? And um so I always think about her because she's she also talks about, you know, when you go to perform, you are you're giving a gift to somebody. There's somebody in the audience that needs to laugh absolutely so badly. And as a comedian, whether you're an improviser or a stand-up comedian or any other form, it's like that's and it gives me chills when I when I talk about it because it's like that's why I do this too, because it's like I need it, but also the idea that I'm also giving that gift to somebody else out there that so desperately needs it, that's like that connection, that community. Like you're talking about your your grandmother love the the gas and the chili, like everybody in that moment needed that so badly. Right. And that can happen too, like in an audience that you're performing for. Now you're all in the same room and you're all watching this scene, and we, you know, can relate to certain things. I mean, I can see you know that being performed on stuff. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's what I love about improv is that there is a space for that. There's a space to explore those ideas and to discover those things in all of us. I love doing scenes about families because everybody's got a family, everybody's got family drama, everybody's got, and it's we all have it, but everybody's version is a little differently. And I love being able to explore those things and find those moments where it's like, my family does that. Yeah. Oh, it's I'm not alone. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and that's why I mean, you know, a lot of people new to improv and a lot of stand-up comedians have this issue where they're trying to go for the funny line, but it's not deep enough. You know, it's just because it's a funny line, okay, ha ha ha. But what's really funny are those relationships, right? Those emotions, those things that we like you just said, that we can all relate to. And then that's where you get like the belly lapse. Right, right. Because people are like, oh god, how do they know?
SPEAKER_00:Are they talking about my family?
SPEAKER_06:Well, it's a cycle of it's the same thing as of the release of comedy when you're in grief. It's this, it's you want to build up, build up, build up that emotion to a point that you can release it, and then you have that feeling of just like this great release that kind of comes over you when you finally do get to that funny moment because because there is it is real stuff that's happening. Right. Um, and you know, that's why comedy is so good for grief. But yeah, uh, yeah, I was I was also thinking throughout the whole thing as I was researching for this episode, I actually found a lot of sites of counseling services that actually will recommend improv as a way to um cope with anxiety, grief, trauma.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:Um, just kind of working through yourself. It it really is, and I mentioned this, I think, in the first episode, it really is a form of of meditation in a way.
SPEAKER_00:For real. That's yeah, I've heard that a lot of people say that that it's um what's the is it mindfulness, is the word? Yeah, it's a really great way to practice mindfulness and to to really focus on the present and be able to leave some of that not behind, but just leave it, you know, over to the side a little bit for now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let it go for a second. Yeah, right. Well, and I think especially if it's something that is something like a death or some other trauma that you've been through, it's hard to let go of that stuff. You are you almost can't get away with it, you know. People can't sleep, they can't think about anything else but that. And so to find a way to take a break from it, even if it's just for a couple hours, five minutes, whatever, is I think a truly like it's very healing and uh maybe a step in in the direction of like you know, moving forward from and like you said, not leaving it completely behind, but kind of being able to move forward with your life.
SPEAKER_00:And so much of that is um, I think when we're improvising on stage and we get when we get in our in like locked in our heads and stuff, I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that we place on ourselves. And you know, I'm in my head because I think that I'm not living up to the expectations that I gave to myself for this scene. And one of the things about being able to process grief or or work through those complex emotions is to set aside your expectations a little bit. You know, we there's always this, you know, build a bridge and get over it kind of thing. Like, oh, he's he's he's handling this so well. Right. Like, look, look how she look how well she's doing. She's just got so great. And it's that's the expectation that we have kind of in our culture about how we deal with loss. Absolutely for men. Absolutely, yeah, for sure. And to be able to set that aside and say, you know, these expectations are are not what I'm gonna deal with right now. And I'm just gonna sit in it, like you said, yeah, and and be able to feel whatever I feel about it. I think that that works in improv as well. You know, when I've been on stage and I'm just you know cycling through stuff and I have no idea what's happening, you know what? Like kind of like what you said, Katie, I'm just gonna put that voice over here, yeah, and just whatever is happening, I'm just gonna go with it 100%. Right. And then I can pick up my expectations, I can pick up all that stuff later when I'm done.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's beautiful. Uh you know, in um, especially in the terms of like losing someone, and uh, I don't want to get too sad or emotional about it, but for Brad it was really quick. Um he, you know, a month ago he was gonna do chemo, he was gonna be fine, and then two weeks later, oh, you have two weeks to live. Oh wow. Um, and it it was it was really tough, but what you're talking about makes me feel like it makes me feel like we're given this gift of life, and we never know when it's gonna end. We never know when we won't have a chance to wake up tomorrow and do this thing. So why not be here, be now, try to live outside your anxiety or your grief in any way that you can figure out how to because you only got so long to do it. Yeah. And so let's play, let's be adults who are playing. Right. I mean, that's okay and that's good, and that's great because every moment is a gift.
SPEAKER_00:And it doesn't mean that you're not affected by it. It doesn't mean that you don't care, but it's an acknowledgement of exactly what you said that um one of the things I think that connects improv and and processing these things is how ephemeral improv is. You can't go back, you can't dwell on your improv because it's over, it doesn't exist anymore. And one of the things that I've one of the connections that I found between those two things is being able to not feel like I have to dwell on it. Not only my emotions, but also my improv. Right. You know, okay, I did a I did a terrible show, it's over, and you can't get it back. And thank goodness you can't get it back sometimes. Right. But you know, it's it you have to keep moving forward, and you have, you know, the sun will rise tomorrow, and my improv show is not going to be a part of tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's okay because in improv we move on and we do, there's always another show.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I mean that's we've talked a lot about this on the show already of um because as someone who dwells a lot, yes, um, I'm a total dweller. And um, you know, part of that too is um is my struggle with failure. And, you know, I think that reminds me, because the first few shows, my very first couple improv shows, were terrible, as they usually are people who are just starting off, and that's okay. Right. You're new at it, it's fine. Like my expectations, like you were talking about for myself, was like, I'm gonna, yay! I did level three and I'm gonna, you know, kick ass and all this stuff. And I mean, you know, it was my first time, so it's you know, whatever. And but I was really bummed. I was really bummed. And um, you know, some of the other people on my team were like, yay, that would, they were more enthusiastic and like, you know, which is is another thing too. It's like you've got that community to kind of shuffle you along and move forward, like you're saying, let it go. And it it took me a couple times though to realize, oh, this is part of it too. It's about embracing the failure and being okay to fail because, like you said, tomorrow's another day, and this will not be a part of my day tomorrow. Right.
SPEAKER_06:It's kind of like a practice, like the more bad scenes you have, like go out and have bad scenes because it will help you learn how to dwell and kind of let the past be the past. Like, okay, I have this opportunity to take this awful scene where they're totally embarrassed, and it helps you kind of learn that emotion of embarrassment and how to let it go, or you know, sometimes emotions are they they they're called different things, but they feel the same way. Yeah. So, like, so like pain, like embarrassment is pain is a pain emotion, anger is a pain emotion, grief is a pain emotion. So you're actually training your brain, hey, I can take this pain and I can set it over here and it's gone, it's done.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, and and that not doing improv with, you know, kind of processing your grief. Obviously, it's not the same timetable as, oh, letting go of my improv show as letting go of this person report, of course. But when you think about, and I just want to clarify because I don't make that point earlier. Yeah. Um, but it's it's it helps your brain move along and it helps your brain get to, you know, maybe you're not gonna be quote, I hate saying over it, but you know, you're maybe you're just moving an inch or two a day, or maybe you're moving a little bit forward every week. And and getting into that improv mindset of, you know, we go out there, we we fail or we succeed, whatever happens, we're supporting each other and we're together on this because grief is usually a really lonely emotion. And and you usually once if you lose somebody or something happens to you, you know, there are people surrounding you, as that's what happens when when you're going through a loss, but eventually a lot of time you're by yourself and you you're at a stoplight and something comes to your mind and then you think about it. And so improv, because it's such a community and because it's such a a wonderful group of people all intent on doing the same thing and doing it together, I think it's really helpful to get to be a part of that so that you're not completely by yourself in your in your grief. You're you're taking those first steps back out and and being able to live with it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. I totally agree. Having it's like there's a light at the end of the tunnel, like you know you'll be able to be happy again. Right. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02:Um so I think um this is a good place to move on to our history segment. Yay. Um, yay! And so I'm gonna just um talk a little bit about um some key places and people, and then I'm gonna give you guys a quote and we're we're gonna talk about that quote. Um, so uh I wanted to mention, I think the last episode I mentioned Second City, and while most experienced improvers already know what Second City is, I remember being a first time improver and people were like throwing around Second City in I.O. and like all these name drops, and I was like, ha ha yeah, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Yeah, I'm totally am cool. Um, so so full disclosure, Second City was basically the very first improv theater. Um, and it was founded in 1959 by Paul Sills. Paul Sills is the was the son of um Viola uh spoilen, who's basically known as the mother of improv. I didn't know that. Yeah, see? Welcome to Enlightenment, Justin. Um, but yeah, so Viola Spoilen, uh, if you guys don't remember, uh, she back in the day, um she had she was a social worker and she worked with immigrant children and uh which spoke many different languages. So she came up with a uh way for them to play and interact through improv, through improv games. And so they were able to kind of pretend and interact, and it didn't matter that they didn't speak all the same language, which is really cool thinking about that and and and human connection um through improv. But, anyways, okay, I I digress. So, anyways, yes, second city, uh the first second city was in Chicago. They also founded one in Toronto. Lots of um uh famous people came out of that second city, such as Martin Short, Dan Aykroyd. We talk a bit a little bit about that in our second episode, John Candy. Um, and that's also where uh Saturday Live uh eventually um began as well. And then there's also one uh in Hollywood, so just so you know, I don't know too much about that one. But um, and then uh I'm the quote I'm gonna give you is from Del Close, another name that gets dropped a lot in improv. And um Del was uh one of the first coaches and teachers at Second City in Chicago. Um uh he joined there in 1961. Uh, he had some major problems with drugs and alcohol. So uh uh, and he was quite the bullheaded uh man. So he didn't really agree with a lot of Viola Spoilin and um Paul Sills things. He was kind of looking for the funny and he questioned a lot and pushed back on that. Um uh fun fact about uh Del Close when he died uh in his will, he said he wanted to uh donate his skull to uh the the Chicago's Goodman Theater for the the play Hamlet, because you know there's like a skull in there. Oh yeah, and um so so there's this big to-do when he died, when he passed away, he donated his skull, supposedly, but then it came out that it wasn't his real skull because the skull that was donated had teeth, and apparently he did not when he passed, which was interesting. And so then the person, I guess his partner in crime, who was the one who donated Charma help by the name of Charma Helpern finally confessed uh later, some years later, that um she had bought the skull from like somewhere else. But you know what? It's the thought that counts, I guess. The bizarre story about Del Close. It's a great story, right? Kind of interesting, but anyways, we're winding back to uh 1961. You know, Del Close was uh pushing back with Paul and at that Paul um Sills and at that time uh Second City they did a lot of satire. That was their main thing. And if if you think back to that time, that's when we were first getting into the war of Vietnam. And Del was kind of like, Why are we doing all this heavy political shit? You know, and so um he says to Paul, he says, Why do you want to do well? He basically said, I basically quoted him, why do you want to do this political shit on stage, Paul? And Paul responds to remind the audience that we're living in the same world they are, which I think is interesting because it's kind of touches on what we were talking about with grief and trauma. And then um, so then the author kind of fills in and says, you know, comedy was about hurt and healing and the end of end of story, hurt and healing and the end of story, and then um this is what Dell says the issues are immaterial. It is this is sort of what he can concluded after everything. It is the response that is the only important thing, and the rage that drives the comedian. In order to heal the audience, you have to heal the actors, the audience's presence, and take the audience along. While sorry, I'm trying to which is why I've been devoted to improvisation for such a long time, because it does precisely that. Wow, right? You have to heal the audience, yeah, right? And I was like, this is what this is the quote. Um, because you know it's about healing the audience, but also healing the at the actors, um, and then the actors taking the audience along with them in their own healing process. So I thought that was super deep.
SPEAKER_00:That's real good.
SPEAKER_06:So the part I like is it is the response that is the only important thing. So we can't change what happens to us. The only thing that we can change is our response. And if we can program our brains in a way, our subconscious mind in a way where we have a healthy response to it. To to this, if we can have a healthy response to this particular thing that's happening, we can continue to train our brains to have healthy responses in the future.
SPEAKER_02:And so how do you what do you mean by healthy response? Because I feel like a lot that could get interpreted from many different ways.
SPEAKER_06:So a lot of people when they go through grief or trauma, they turn into themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_06:And they, like you said, they isolate themselves, they try to hide their feelings. Um when you're on an improv stage, you can't hide your feelings. Right. And you can't go into yourself. You have to be there, you have to be present, and you have to listen. And I think when you're going through grief and trauma, it's very important not to live in the past or the future. It's very important to live right here in the moment and appreciate what you have now. Yeah. Instead of dwelling, like we were saying earlier, on what we no longer have. Um I hate to keep bringing Brad into it, but Brad was so alive and he created so much and he wouldn't want us to do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and he just he had just stopped doing that. He had just um uh entered his script got was entered into the Cordillera Film Festival. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. So, you know, he had hopes, dreams, you know, he was an inspired artist.
SPEAKER_06:So he always lived presently. And I think we can take that from him. Like, what did he leave behind? What did what did he do that he left behind that we can take and use from his life and and from whoever you're you've lost or who or whatever problem you're going through a trauma because of, like, what can you take out of that that's positive? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think improv is the exploration of possibilities. We're creating these out of any number of possible opportunities that we have to make a statement or bring an emotion, and you're just kind of navigating through this fractal tree of possible scenes. And I think that's really helpful for coming to terms with these kind of complex emotions and grief because you feel like when you've lost something so important to you, it's easy to forget that uh that that possibilities exist uh in your life and that there are potential things to explore and and things to celebrate and and successes to have. And one of the and just the the fact of navigating through an improv scene and making choices and exploring possibilities and making them into something on stage is really helpful. Just it doesn't even have to have anything to do with with your grief or whatever happened, but just having that going on in your brain.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just doing exercise and making a choice instead of because I'm I don't know about you guys, but you know, sometimes I get in my head about things and then I I start to feel like I have no choices, like I'm stuck in this, you know, kind of depression and feeling like, oh, this is the way the world is, you know, instead of thinking like, well, maybe if I just pivoted over here for a second, or you know, I don't know, like turned right instead of left, that there might be something there that I didn't see. But I think you know, you can get sort of blinded in that sort of cloud of depression or grief that you're going through, and um just the exercise, even if you like you said, it has nothing to do with what's going on with you, but just the exercise of making choices and going, oh yeah, that's right. There are other possibilities in the world.
SPEAKER_00:Just reminding your brain that that's still a thing, that is an object.
SPEAKER_06:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um, for time reasons, we're gonna go ahead and jump into the topic or the concept of the day, which I'm super excited about because I love this topic. Um, it's about playing to the top of your intelligence. Now, this doesn't mean that you can't play a character who is less than intelligent. I mean, think of the movie Dumb and Dumber, you know, like those were incredibly dumb characters, but they weren't unintelligent characters.
SPEAKER_02:Um sorry, can I interrupt you? Yeah. Can I say something really dumb? Yes. I have got to pee.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, go, so you guys are gonna talk, I'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you're gonna leave. Oh sorry.
SPEAKER_06:I'm not gonna pee in here. Katie, Katie's gonna pee.
SPEAKER_00:Cool.
SPEAKER_06:Everyone can know that now. Um, okay, so you know, I took this off the internet, so we're just gonna go from there. Um to play to the top of your well, I kinda okay, I took it off the internet and then I changed it a little bit. Cool. Um, so it's to allow a dumb character to be clever, interesting while still conveying a lower status. Uh, this allows you to allow your play to be interesting and dynamic while still getting across the perspective of stupidity. Consider perspectives and angles when creating uh these lower status characters. Maybe your character is traditionally stupid, but some smart common sense ways that the character is I didn't write that right. The character is not.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I I think you think you kinda know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's all about I I love it because it's something that I always come back to when I'm performing. And I think about the characters that I play, and it's uh it's about being genuine to that character, and about having a reaction that's honest to the character. And um I have the uh I have the Upright Citizens Brigade uh comedy improv manual. Um and the section on top of your intelligence just says refers to responding truthfully to a stimulus within a scene. It's about allowing yourself to have a true, honest emotional response. Intelligence in this case is your knowledge of how a human being would react to a given situation, requires emotional and social intelligence. And it means responding the way a real person would in a given situation. And so it doesn't have to mean it doesn't have to mean that you can't play a character who is lower status or low intelligent, but it has to be uh honest to that particular character. And when I um like I think about um a lot of times we make these kind of we get we have this put this pressure to uh feel like we're we're like I'm not thinking of something original enough, or I'm not thinking of something interesting enough. Um a couple of this was an example from a a group that I was helping to coach. Uh they were in a show and it was uh just a basic scene and um one of the one of the performers said uh you know, go ahead and sit down over there on the um oh gosh, what are they called? Oh, what are those things called? The chairs. Right, and it was and it was a it got a it got a titter right during the show. And we were talking about it afterward, and they were like, you know, I that I didn't I don't know how I felt about that. And it's like, well, let's talk about it. You know, do you was that just a moment where your brain went took a vacation and you just couldn't think of the word it was on the tip of your tongue? And they were like, well, no, I was trying to think of something funnier than chairs. Like I was trying to I thought chairs was stupid and boring and obvious. And it's like, well, then now I've created the situation where my character doesn't know what a chair is.
SPEAKER_02:Which is hilarious.
SPEAKER_00:Which is, yeah, I mean it's it's one of those things that um, you know, we talk about making the obvious choice or making the bold choice, and I think that sometimes the honest choice maybe is the better, a better word than the the obvious choice or the or the uh an original choice. Um whatever your character is. I mean that character could not know what a chair is, and then that becomes a and that's a wonderful moment because then you you heighten that and maybe they don't know what a plate is and a house and a you know, whatever, society.
SPEAKER_06:But it's also very real. Like I like like I I have focus issues, I have an ADHD, and sometimes I cannot think of words. My brain is just in that moment not connecting, and I don't think I'm the only person where I have those moments of crap, I don't I can't think of the word right now, but like on stage, you have to make that a part of your character, and that's okay. Absolutely. Um and and I think that people like in that moment, I think why I think it is funny is because yeah, like maybe I forgot the what the word chair was for a minute.
SPEAKER_00:What is it? I can't think of it. I can't think of it. And making that incorporating that into your performance is brilliant because then you're not only are you playing a game to the audience, now you're playing a game with yourself and with your your scene partner because I just forgot what I forgot the word chair. And and now we're gonna sit in that, we're gonna play with it. Right. And then you may and now your character is playing at the top of your intelligence because that's something that you've now made an honest choice with your character.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I and I love thinking about you know what is the honest choice. And the best part is it can it you can use improv to justify any character choice, which I love. It's just getting to the point where you're able to you you can do that. And if you have people who perform with you that are supportive and are hell-bent on helping m everybody look as best as possible, then you can really have those moments and you are able to kind of sail into top of your intelligence territory without having to try too hard. Try too hard, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh welcome back, Katie. Oh, thanks, thanks. Uh I was living in the moment of having a pee and uh I couldn't deny it anymore. I had to yes and that. Um so yeah, and that I think that ties into too about that those expectations, that judgmental place of us trying to be and and you know, really not giving ourselves enough credit to be like, you know, oh, this is not good enough. I need to have something brilliant come out of my mouth right now. Yeah, you know, and sometimes the most honest, simplest choice is the best one. So trust that. And I know I struggle with that.
SPEAKER_06:And I thought it was interesting that you said the word judgment too, because I think this goes, um, you know, not to get too political or anything, but we all have preconceived biases of how certain people are. Yeah. People with mental problem disorders, people who are a different race or gender than us, people who are kind of over here, we don't understand. We we tend to revert to stereotypes. But I think it's a really good practice, especially you know, when you're getting to the root of emotions and improv, to understand that okay, people might have these characteristics that are stereotyped, but at the end of the day, they're still a real person with real complex emotions, whether or not they're dumb or they're different, or you know, they're doing a funny voice, like it's they're still human and they still they still feel and they they're still the same as us in some form.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think I think too when you're talking about stereotypes, um, you know, I think that's going back to this idea of um not living in the moment and going to another place of like stereotype land.
SPEAKER_00:The worst country ever.
SPEAKER_02:The worst country, you know, because that's really it's it's not being in the moment. Now you're going off to stereotype land um and and you're not with that person. And like you said, I think you're saying, like, yeah, instead of doing, oh, how am I gonna treat this person that's having a country accent or something, right? Well, it doesn't matter. What matters is what they say and what they do and how you're going like the game we just played, right? How are you going to emotionally respond to how they just said their last line, you know? Um, and not about, oh, this is somebody who's a hick from Alabama because they're talking Latin or something, and be like, oh, they're they're dumb. Shout out to all my Alabama friends. Yeah, sorry, Alabama.
SPEAKER_00:All the listeners in Alabama just unsubscribe.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's like we have that many subscribers. That's nice. One day we'll have to write, please don't write in from Alabama.
SPEAKER_00:I um it's a really good point that you I love that point that you make, both of you, that because um, and this is just with my own kind of struggles with depression and and things like that. Doing improv has made me a lot more empathetic to what other people are going through, even people I don't know, and I always bring this up. It's a little macabre, but I think it makes sense. In a situation where you know you're following somebody into a building and they, you know, don't hold the door open for you, it just closes in your face. And it's like the the first thing that you think of is, well, that what a jerk, what rude. You know, or they somebody doesn't you know start driving when the light turns green and you don't, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But I always try to think, and again, it's a little macabre, but it's like, what if that person just lost like their best friend? Right. Or you know, because I've been that person where I'm so everything just went white and I'm not even in, I'm present in the world and I'm not, but I'm not interacting with it. And you so I always try to think about that when I have those impulses to be like, well, that person's a jerk.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't know how common that is. I don't know everybody is going through that, but it's just helpful to remember that somebody is. And if I were doing if I were in that situation, I would hope that a stranger wouldn't, you know, enter into a confrontation with me about the fact that I was so wrapped up in my own thoughts that I couldn't think to hold the door open. Yeah, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think that's uh I I I I have become an oversharer sometimes with strangers, you know, how some people like to just be left alone and I have to like overstate my intentions all the time because I'm so worried that people are gonna think, you know, that I don't know that I'm being rude in some unsung level because it's like kind of the opposite of what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're but you're like hyper aware of how of the other side. I like that though.
SPEAKER_02:Well, because I'm kind of neurotic, so I'll be like, oh, you know, like at the grocery store, you know, I'll be like, um, can I get paper? It's because like thank you so much. Like I overly am like, thank you so much. I will just bag my own grocery like oh, sorry, that was my coffee that made me pee earlier. Um, but yeah, you know, it's just like I don't want people to think I'm being rude, even though I'm also being neurotic in particular about things, anyways. Enough about me.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so um I'm gonna begin to wrap up, but um did either of you have any like burning points or questions you had before.
SPEAKER_02:No, I already went to the bathroom, so the burning is gone. Burning. Sounds like it wasn't burning. Well, I mean, you know, just like the general. Sorry. Sorry about all the bathroom talk.
SPEAKER_00:I think I started it with the chili story.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I did open the all your fault, Justin. You opened the Pandora's gas box.
SPEAKER_06:Moving right along. Sorry, that was very experienced, you guys. Oh my gosh, this is what happens when you get in the podcast studio with comedians. Um, okay, so this question is really, really deep and important. And we've been thinking about it for a long time. We crafted it just for you. Can't wait. We want to know, Justin Kavanaugh, what song is most embarrassing? What is a song that is embarrassing to admit that you like out loud on the show?
SPEAKER_00:I have two because I couldn't decide between them. Kiss me by Six Pence on the Richer. Oh yeah, by the bearded barley.
SPEAKER_04:I thought that sounded like that.
SPEAKER_00:That was like kind of a nine wonder, wasn't it? I think it was, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good one though.
SPEAKER_00:And um TikTok by Kesha.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my god, how does that even go? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:The party don't start until I walk.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I when I first heard it, I thought this is the stupidest song I've ever heard. And then somehow over the next 10 years, it just climbed into my brain and now it lives there all the time.
SPEAKER_06:Just once one day a light bulb went on Justin's brain and he was like, the party doesn't start until I get there.
SPEAKER_00:That's like she was singing to me.
SPEAKER_02:That's like the stupid housewives part party for the party. That's what that reminds me too. It's like just make something catchy enough that people just can't get it out of their brains, and you'll make a million dollars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I don't know the point at which I was like, I actually like this now. But it happened and it It happened. Now you're living proud. I'm singing it on a loop in my head. That and the golden girls thing.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my goodness. Oh, the golden girls love that.
SPEAKER_06:Oh man. Um golden girls. Betty. Betty White. I love Betty White. It's awesome. She's still alive.
SPEAKER_00:I know. She's awesome.
SPEAKER_06:She's the best.
SPEAKER_00:I know, because there's always something that comes out that says she's every couple months, it's RIP Betty White starts training on Twitter for no reason.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my god, because she's so awesome. She is she is the person I want to be when I'm a hundred. Like I don't know, she's 90 something, right? She's the dry crusty muffin lady from the NPR skit on SNL. But the thing about Betty White is she's it's exactly what we talked about today. It's a great way to end it. She has never stopped creating and never stopped living right now and having a life. And like that is what I want for myself from now until I croak. So yeah, she's she's a good inspiration.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we I think that's you know, well, who could hope for more, right? Who could aspire to something greater?
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. We love you, Betty White.
SPEAKER_06:You're out there listening. With that, um, we're going to give you just a minute to rep Justin Kavanaugh. If uh people want to figure out who the heck you are, they want to follow you. Where would one find Justin Kavanaugh?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I have a Twitter and an Instagram. And if you want to follow me and see what I talk about, um, it's just at Justin Cav, J-U-S-T-I-N-K-A-V. Um, I also wrote a novel uh last November during National Novel Writing Month called The Spice of the Autumn Night. And it is, I decided to record it and release it as a podcast. So look for The Spice of the Autumn Night wherever you get your podcasts if you're interested in hearing the worst thing I've ever written. No.
SPEAKER_06:It sounded I love the title. I am so excited. We are definitely going to link that for y'all in the show notes. Thank you. And thank you so much, Justin. It has been a pleasure having you. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:I it was a it was a delight for me as well. Thank you. Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_05:This has been For the Love of Improv. We want to thank you for tuning in. If you would like to join the conversation, you can find our website at forthelovofimprov.com. And don't forget that life is a stage. So get out there and perform the hell out of it.
SPEAKER_03:Come on, ladies! Love of improv improv for the love of improv Improv Love Improv Improv Improv Improv Woo! Yeah. See you next time.
SPEAKER_06:Peace. Alright, let's talk about something. Well shit. Now we have nothing to talk about.
SPEAKER_00:Come on, we're improvers, we can do this. I don't know. I I can't understand. Let's not do this anyway. I'm demure and I don't like being having attention.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. I'd rather use that. Demure. I'm demure rather than shy. Although I feel like that has like a sexy don't don't talk to me. I know. Oh, but do. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
