For The Love of Improv
For The Love of Improv
Tim Mahoney | Narrative Improv
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The basics of storytelling inherent in every player get to the root of how long-form improv magic works. Tim Mahoney talks about the 8-step process that makes narrative improv come to life.
In this episode we talk with Tim about narrative improv, secondary characters, Theatre Sports, and much, much, much, much, much more. (Let’s just say, Tim is never at a loss for words and that’s why we love having him on our podcast!).
Tim Mahoney is an improv coach and teacher at Reno Improv. He would rather be doing improv than almost anything else (who wouldn’t?), so you’ll see that beautiful, bearded face consistently around the improv scene, at conventions, or anything improv-related.
Visit ForTheLoveOfImprov.com for more!
Welcome, welcome, welcome to for the love of improv.
SPEAKER_03:Is there a song?
SPEAKER_04:It was just saying we have a um it's already pre-recorded, so they've they've already actually Herbit.
SPEAKER_02:I thought I was gonna get to hear it.
SPEAKER_00:They've already actually herb Herbit for you.
SPEAKER_02:No, you don't need to play it, I know it. Um it's lovely.
SPEAKER_00:It just says for the love of improv over and over again. It's great. Yeah. Zoe uh Amorphia. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It's amazing. Um, so welcome to this is our fourth episode. So exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, uh, we are Jesse Wicks and Katie Welsh.
SPEAKER_04:I'm Katie Welsh.
SPEAKER_00:Today we're talking with Tim Mahoney.
SPEAKER_04:Hello.
SPEAKER_00:He is in the studio, ready to go. Um, our topic today is narrative improv. Uh, you can see some narrative improv by showing up to one of Tim's shows for his new team called Ghost. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's a placeholder too. We don't have a team name yet. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. And that's why it's ghosting.
SPEAKER_04:That's why you're ghosts. I like that. Yeah.
unknown:Cool.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Um before we start, um, oh yeah, we have to do our disclaimers.
SPEAKER_04:So um, we are not experts. We just love improv and we love we like to talk about it because it's we were just talking before we aired this um about how deep it is. It's not just about the art form, but all other sorts of things. So that's that's why we but we don't claim to be. We just want to talk about it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. What we do claim is that improv is about life, and we are both experts and newbies all at the same time because every time you get on stage, it's something new and an opportunity for for growth and just really a potential for anything. So right here we're saying we're not experts, and in the same breath, we invite you to come and learn with us as we grow.
SPEAKER_01:Yay. On our improv journey. Yeah, on our improv journey with rainbows and unicorns. Yeah, can you tell them a little bit about what they're gonna get from the show today?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so um, we're gonna talk to Tim, obviously, about narrative improv. And uh we're also gonna do a game. We almost do a game, so that'll be interesting because we don't know how this was one's gonna go. We really never do, because it's improv, people. Um, and uh and then we also have a history segment. We may or may not get that to that today. We'll see. Um Tim usually has a lot to say, right, Tim.
SPEAKER_00:And we're gonna um that's the first video.
SPEAKER_02:Starting off the improv podcast with a no. Nailed it.
SPEAKER_01:Nailed it.
SPEAKER_04:Denied. Um, and then we're also going to uh talk about um a particular, I don't know, what do you call it, a technique, a word of the day.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, so our concept of for the day today is secondary characters, and it leads really in well into nerve improv, so I'll save that for later. Um, let's get to know Tim though. Um, Tim, we ask all of our guests the first question is why did you get into improv to start? Like what why did you show up to your first practice and then why did you come back?
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, uh so the reason uh that I showed up to my first improv practice was actually not to do improv. Um I showed up to my first improv practice or or class um because I wanted to do stand-up. And I wanted to get more comfortable on stage, and and for me that was like a very safe way to to kind of jump into getting back on stage. I performed, you know, in various um forms in in high school and some in college, and kind of had drifted away from that after leaving school. So um yeah, I I jumped back into or jumped into improv it to get back on stage and just to kind of like get back into the the world of of comedy, so to speak. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh and then how was that experience? I mean, were were you was it what you were expecting? Were you blown away? Were you like, oh, this is not at all what I was expecting improv would be?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I have been uh I hate to use the word comedy nerd for my whole life, but I really I mean that's kind of the case. Um very much into the all things comedy as a kid. Um Saturday Night Live was a big influence on my life and actually still remains one in the sense that you know I watch it like a sport. Um both, you know, recognizing when things go wrong and then like watching the ebbs and flows of a changing cast. It's a lot like a sports team over the years. So uh you know, I enjoy that aspect of it. But um, you know, as a way to connect with my dad and my brothers, uh we kind of bonded through comedy. We moved around as a as a family a lot. My dad was in the Navy and we moved around, you know, all the time basically, uh every every few years. Um so we were really close and we always bonded over things comedically. Uh my dad has a fun sense of humor, even though he's very shy. Um and he uh you know loves very classic comedies from his era, Animal House, and uh anything Steve Martin and you know Martin Short and all these great comedians. Um so he introduced you know me to those people, and those are still folks that I I really look up to. Um in terms of comedy. I mean Steve Martin is somebody who's like just you know, so risky with with what he does, but also so connected to to the simplicity of the art form. And I think that's like one of the beautiful things about improv is that it's it's both really deep and complex, but at the same time like very much simple and and uh you know obvious. And that's a cool thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's so cool. And I I love the the thing you said about comedy connection. I think I think um I think that's I mean I can relate to that a lot. I think a lot of people can relate to, you know, either if you're a performer or watched comedy, um, or you know, people in your family. I mean that's you know, I've not I've always never I I've never really gotten along with my dad, but when we do connect, it's because of it's because of comedy. Yeah, you know, so it's always it's kind of like that wall breaker that um that makes everything okay for a second. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:And I mean it you know, and in my family. Um you could get away with anything if if there was like a laugh line involved at the end. Like as long as it was like, well, you know, whatever happens, happens, and then you know you can make somebody chuckle. It's like, well, let's forget about the fact that we crashed the car through the garage then and move on with our life. Right. Yeah, but it it wasn't that you could get away with anything, but it did, you know, it was a it was that thing of like, oh making people laugh has like a a good feeling attached to it, but also it put it like kind of pulled the veil o away from like things being so serious all the time. Like life goes on and to be able to laugh at you know the the things that come up throughout the things that are unavoidable that happen to everybody that we often put so much pressure on ourselves to take seriously. You know, like absolutely to be able to laugh those off or to be able to find the humor in them rather than to like laugh them off and move past them, but just to recognize that like the humanity, like humor is humanity, and and to find that in you know everything is a blessing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, totally. It's a relief, it's a big relief.
SPEAKER_02:Relief, oh better word, yeah, it is a relief. God, imagine you have to be so serious all the time. Oh life is super complicated.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Probably the serious one in the group, but I want I want that. I I I feel like life it get can get so intense sometimes and you get wrapped up in what you're doing, and to be that person that can provide the comedy relief in in a hard situation without being inappropriate, it makes you such a gift to the people around you. Like absolutely like whether it's it's planned out and performed on stage or whether it's just hey, here's the funny part of this situation being able to look at life from yeah angle is this like it's awesome if you have that skill.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, I think that's what I why I fell in love with improv was not that that doesn't exist in the stand-up comedy world. I'm sure it does. Oh, I should say I've never done stand-up comedy. Oh, you never ended up doing it. No, no, I that's what I started to to pursue so long ago, and just never I fell in love with improv. Um, I you know, I'd always been on sports teams as a kid and and through high school and in college. Um and I think that I just missed, you know, for at first it was like I'm part of a thing, and that was enough. You know, that was like a big thing in my life was to be back involved in a group setting, like working towards a common goal. That was really nice. Um, but the the more I pursued it and the and the more I continued to do it, I really just was like, oh, this is this is what I wanted because it gives me that comedic outlet that I think I was searching for in stand-up.
SPEAKER_04:Um but you also were on a team.
SPEAKER_02:But I was were I was pursuing it with other people and and stand-up is through my lens, but improv is through a collective group lens. And that's a group lens that changes and exists only in that moment when you're doing that show with those people. Stand-up you just you get to do the same set and and rework it and and tweak it, and I think there's so much value in that. I there's like the beauty in honing a thing and working so hard to craft a joke is wonderful. And something I don't know if I have the patience to do now that I've been doing improv for so long, because improv I like the the practice of it. I like that it's um ongoing and that you don't if you think you figured it out. You know, I it's humbling. Yeah, and I think that's a good thing for somebody who has an ego like myself, like it's humbling to be to be have miscuse regularly. Um I've approached things in my life pretty um what's the word I want to use? Uh I don't know. I don't know either. Um I planned out. I I I I'm a planner so if I'm traveling, like I have itineraries like literally printed out for myself uh from on an hourly basis, like uh a list of clothing to check all. Like I'm very um regimented in that type of thing, and and I think for imp in improv it's really nice to not have to feel that pressure necessarily.
SPEAKER_04:I can relate to that so much because I started out in stand-up, and the thing I liked about it was because was that you could plan it out more. But what's always been a struggle for me is that going off script, so doing crowd work, that terrifies me. So that's why I got into improv for the same reason because I'm like, I gotta take the stick out of my butt and try to be more spontaneous. And I'm like, that's what improv is. You can do nothing but that. So it's almost it was like a a way to like give myself permission to just be spontaneous because there's no other choice, you know? And that's like that's how because I'm like, no, I have to have a plan.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because and then you say that you're you started in stand-up too. And I think I've posted a stand-up show that you've been in. Yeah. Improv weirdly brought me back to the stand-up world. Yeah, like by accident. And then I love hosting stand-up shows because it is for me, it's almost like improvised stand-up. I get to uh actively move the show along, but I also get to plug in some some jokes here and there that that I think of like as a result of other folks' sets, just to kind of tie them all together. And like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:So And by the way, if you guys don't know, we're talking about Reno Improv. Reno Improv has a monthly open mic uh night, it's every third Friday, I think. So if you guys are interested in stand-up and just trying it, it's a really great place to try it. It's not a bar so people aren't distracted, it's a very safe place. Audience is super sh encouraging.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, I mean, throughout my improv career, if you want to call it that, um, you know, I've crossed paths with a lot of stand-up. I've been a part of review shows and things like that where it's you know or festivals that there's improv and stand-up. Um and yeah, it's it's of the the you know, not to go off on a tangent about Reno Improv, I'm sure we'll talk about it later in uh or whatever. Um, but it is one of the most um supportive stand-up environments I've I've seen in the sense that you know the the 10 people or 12 people uh uh on stage for that evening are very much there to to get better and the audience is aware of that and supports them in their pursuit of getting better. Yeah. Which just doesn't happen at a bar.
SPEAKER_04:No, you know, well, and a lot of open mics, you know, they're all other comics and they're trying it's it's competitive. It's competitive and that's fine, but um yeah, and that's why I like the Reno Improv one because it's it is a it is a chance for and we actually um you know, because we have regulars that come to that, you know, we have comics who are constantly working on their stuff, but we actually do reserve, I think it's six spots for people. If you're new, you get to the top of the list. So there is a sign-up process that happens the week before you can go to um our Facebook page, I think is maybe the base. Um and sign up. Um, but yeah, so that's that's we we encourage people to come or you know, I think it's awesome to try it for the first time.
SPEAKER_02:That it's that like that collaborative spirit that that pushed me into that that like that kept me in improv for sure. It's like the same sort of supportive uh environment. Um the sports teams I played on, while they were supportive in a sense, there was also like individual competition. I played football in rugby, and you know, so football was like not a supportive environment for me. I I didn't really enjoy it as much as I thought I would, like looking back on it. And so much of that was because there wasn't like it didn't feel like a common pursuit of a goal, even though that's what a sports team should be. Obviously, this is high school football we're talking about, so there's like high school drama involved in all this competing for positions, yeah, yeah, and like competing for positions like not only on the football team, but that position was also like your social school. Right. Um and I I never like needed to be the the you know the top, and I think that that pursuit of that is was like exhausting and and and defeating in a lot of ways. And when I was first on an improv in an improv class, it wasn't it was like that's more inclusive. Well inclusive, but also like if it was individual for the like everybody was just trying to get better individually, right? Right. Not not to be the best in the class, just to be better as a person. And I think that I I mean I'm so glad I started taking improv because it kind of put my mindset in terms of uh the other activities that I will pursue will also have that same effect on me. No longer like in pursuit of a thing to be like the best at it. Not that I don't know that I ever was, but um to pursue things that just that can make you better as a person at your own pace are really freeing thing to do.
SPEAKER_04:And I think just one more thing, because I think we're we're ready to move on to the next thing, but um I just have to say this. Yeah, no worries. Um but it's also the thing about improv is like the way you get better is by lifting others up. Oh yeah, you know? Oh yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:See, that's see, I had to say that isn't that isn't fun to that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yep. Definitely right, and that's what's so amazing about it because it it's focused on other. And it's fo and that's why you have to deal with your own.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I think that's why I enjoy the teaching aspect of it so much now that I've I've been teaching for some years now. I I get so much out of the classes, both personally and improv-wise, because I see people trying to.
SPEAKER_00:Before you say this note, can we get a quick note on um how long you've been teaching and how long you've been doing this? They have an overview of your improv experience.
SPEAKER_02:I've been doing improv for a while, um, and I've been teaching for almost six years now. I think. Improv when I started, it was not you know, some time before that, not terribly long before that. I don't really know.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um I also, you know, not that I don't like the question, I can appreciate the question, but I also think like that's another reason I love improv so much. Like it doesn't matter how long you've been doing it if you're able to connect with the people you're on stage with, like the time is is is not necessarily the most important thing. It's your ability to connect. And um I that's why I love playing with new people. You know, I love playing with with new people both that I've never played before, but new people to improv as a as an art form. They're super fun to play with because they have no preconceived notions about you know what things are supposed to be, and they like do crazy things and they're fun to to kind of be put um in that place in time with folks that you know their own thing.
SPEAKER_04:Well and you've also we talked about this uh before we came on air, but um you also uh taught at you started a club at a school that you used to work at. Can you talk about that a little bit more?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, absolutely, yeah. Um so uh a close friend of mine, a colleague and and friend, um actually my first improv teacher now that I think about it, um, a guy named Ryan Hardigan, who is a lovely fellow uh who's in New Zealand. Hi Ryan, if you listen to this. Um he so he and I uh like I said, he was my first improv teacher and we really clicked. He was also the first person to put me on an improv team, which was his improv group uh that I was on for a long time. Um and uh he he took some chances on me, which was always was was nice, uh, you know. Um saw something in me, uh I guess that that made me want to continue to pursue this. And um so he and I uh started this club at a school called the Middlebridge School. Uh it's a boarding school in Narragansett, Rhode Island. Um for kids with uh social and developmental disabilities. Uh lots of kids on the autism spectrum, ADHD, various things. Um and we started an improv club and it was simply just an after-school improv club. It took place on Thursday nights. We'd show up at the school and just, you know, do improv games and teach some improv theory and stuff like that, and just have a good time with the kids, you know, break them out of their shell a little bit. Um and it was great. Another 70 kids in the school, I think, by the end of our first semester at the school in that club, we had 20 plus kids, and so we had a third of the school locked up in the in the improv club. So I think bowling club got put on the on the back burner for the semester, which I was bummed about because I love bowling. I was like, you guys are doing bowling bowling.
SPEAKER_04:Could you do like improv bowling? No, that would be weird. I feel like people would get injured.
SPEAKER_02:Uh scenes in bowling alleys. No, I think um, but it it really took off and and the kids loved it, and it was so it like I said, it was a boarding school, so their teachers and uh staff and resident uh staff and all that were around all the time, and they really watched these kids grow as a result of being in this improv club. Not only just talking about how much they enjoyed it and like socializing, which is a thing that that some of those kids really struggle with, um, socializing about how they enjoyed the club, but uh we literally got calls from parents that were saying, like, my daughter's calling me once a week now and talking to me about like what's going on. Like, so we're seeing all these really super positive changes. Um and we we talked to the school and the the school approached us about you know starting a program more um I guess educationally minded, and and and I I will be honest, you know, it wasn't any different from what we were doing in the club. We put some new vocab words in there to make it sound like uh you know it was it was really tailored to this specific class. So they brought us into their social pragmatics classes, which teach, you know, socialization and and some certain life skills that that some of these kids might struggle with. Um but we were just doing improv. It wasn't any different. You know, we threw some new like I said, we threw some words on there to make it uh to make it fit the the um cr pre-existing curriculum for that particular program. But it was just improv. It was just improv. It was just you know, communication and and in a fun set of it. That's how improv st got started, by the way.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yes, right, that's true. Well, Tim is actually um to uh kind of bring us back into the topic of the day, Tim is actually working on um some new material to teach around narrative improv, and he he started this team that doesn't have a name yet, it's called Ghost around narrative improv. And so kind of that is why we're kind of talking about this today, as he's kind of obsessed about kind of new topics and within improv, and he's bringing that to you know that an amazing value to Reno Improv, which is awesome. Um I'm just gonna start off by giving um a definition that I got from Impro Theater. You can find it on impro theater.com backslash narrative.
SPEAKER_02:Um theater out of LA, they do fully improvised plays. And what I mean by fully improvised is you know, quite literally, uh if you want to put a time limit on it, 90 minute uh to two-hour show uh with full with intermission, costumes, lighting, sound, everything. And it's completely improvised. Um and they're one of the best companies in the country. So yeah, if you're ever in LA, go to impro theater.
SPEAKER_00:Um so this definition comes on good authority.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um they say with narrative improv a scene must end when the narrative beat is completed, not when a joke hits, and each consecutive scene builds on the scene before it. So characters stay and are developed over the course of the story. They have strong wants, obstacles, and ultimately have to change in order to achieve their goal.
SPEAKER_02:This takes such a good definition.
SPEAKER_00:This takes improv from being a fun night of comedy to a full fledged theatrical experience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, leave it to the people at Impro Theater to give you a perfect definition of the city. Yeah, I mean, they should know, right? Yeah, I mean like they're they're one of the companies. In a country that is is is from my perspective is is of the best at what they're doing. Also, Bats, um, I'll plug their theaters. Uh Bats improv in uh San Francisco. They've been doing narrative improv for 30 years. Actually, they're celebrating their 30th anniversary this year. Um, and those folks are really, really wonderful too. Uh they do, I actually just saw at the San Francisco Improv Festival last weekend. Um, a couple folks from uh my team at Reno Improv went and saw uh improvise Downton Abbey. Where um it was an amazing show, really great show. Um once again, you know, just to put a time length on it to kind of give you a perspective of what it was, it was it was a two-hour show with a 15-minute intermission, um, fully realized characters sound. So, you know, now something at that length.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think that something at that length is realistic for most improv uh clubs to have if it's something they want to do? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It it it's just what this particular theater and the folks that perform there love doing. And I don't think that it's a matter of like, is this a thing we could do or isn't it? If you want to do it, do it. There's nothing stopping you from doing it. Does it take training and practice and hard work? Absolutely, but so does any kind of any artistic pursuit, yeah, you know. Um, you know, there's uh the joke about like I got an improv because they don't have to practice or rehearse or like prepare. It's like well, I and I say that off the cuff too, because it's it's certain that sometimes it feels true. Yeah, I can go up and do a show with zero preparation, but there actually is preparation that went into that. There's all the classes that I took and all the the rehearsals that I've gone to and the training that we constantly all are undergoing to continue keeping our chops up on this thing that we love so much.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because you can I mean I've definitely experienced it as a more of a beginner improver improviser where you, you know, you learn all these rules and you're like, oh yeah, I'm getting I'm getting it. I'm getting it. Oh yeah, I'm vibing with this. This is happening, this is working. And then all of a sudden, I don't know what happens. All I forget all the rules. And they just everything goes out the window, and I don't know how that happened. No, it's not like driving at all. No, it's not improvised driving. That doesn't sound right. Yeah, it's not true.
SPEAKER_03:Sometimes very painful to watch.
SPEAKER_00:Uh so what does it mean to be um a good storyteller in in the whole construct of narrative?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, to be a human. I don't know. I uh so my my latest tagline for for this narrative improv thing that we're pursuing here at Reno Improv is like we're all natural storytellers, whether we know it or not. I mean, we're here as a result of this of you know the word passed on through history, basically, you know? I mean, the shared the that shared thing of of of language. So to tell a story, for me is is obvious. I mean, I I think that we're telling stories in all of our scenes, whether or not it's you know a clear ending, or maybe it's just a snapshot of a story, but there's narrative moments in everything we do.
SPEAKER_00:So is there a formula you're uh taking advantage of in your particular improv class that you're working on?
SPEAKER_02:Is there a formula to help with the narrative storytelling of in improv? Absolutely. So um I use a uh format called uh story spine or an eight-beat story. And it was taught to me by um a group, uh group called Parallelogramophonograph, um, out of Austin, Texas. Uh PGraph for short. You can visit them at pgraph.com. Hey, I'm gonna plug everybody's stuff but my own tonight. We're gonna have a long list.
SPEAKER_00:I'm trying to write that down to put in the show notes, but I'll have to ask you actually.
SPEAKER_02:No, and they're really, really wonderful. Um, you know, I'm lucky to to uh have worked with them in a number of capacities. Um both I took an intensive from them at the Alaska State Improv Festival, and it was really excellent. Um they're they're just so knowledgeable and and approachable about narrative improv. Um they perform improvised plays as well. They have a lot of different you know formats that they've done before. Um but yeah, they taught me this this basic narrative structure to to kind of work through an improvised story with. And I can go through that right now if you want to.
SPEAKER_00:Um, can you do like a quick overview? So we can. Yeah, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02:So it's an eight-beat structure, and it kind of helps you with it goes from beginning and end to a story, and it's simple. It g the first beat is once upon a time, uh-huh, and then you fill in after that. So we I mean we could even walk around and do one real quickly.
SPEAKER_03:Let's do it. That'll be our game. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Alright, let's do it. So it starts, I'll I'll go through it real quick. It starts with once upon a time, and that's the first, you know, first beat of that eight beat story. Uh so once upon a time there was a boy named Fred. And the next beat of the story is and every day, right? So once upon a time there was a boy named Fred, and every day Fred walked down to the corner grocery store. Okay, so there's your second beat. And the third beat is kind of the the moment where something in the story happens. And that's uh that beat starts with until one day, right? So there we have an issue. Something comes up in the story. Um so until one day, the store was closed and out of business. Then we get into like the plot of our story, basically, right? So it's gonna be and because of that. So and because the store was closed, something happened. Fred had to do something different, right? And because of that, Fred wandered into an unknown neighborhood looking for food. And because of that, something else happened. So the fifth, I'm sorry, the fourth, fifth, and sixth beats are all, and because of that. So it's just a very logical, linear way to approach a thing. This happens, and because this happens, something else happens, and because this happens, something else happens, right? Um so there's your fourth, fifth, and sixth beats of that story, and then you get, and because of that is the sixth beat, like I said, the seventh beat is until one day. And that's kind of the falling action of the story, like the resolution. Because the story uh we'll we'll we'll use the the fourth beat there as the the sixth one as well, because it doesn't really matter. Um and because the store was closed, he wandered into uh an unknown part of town. And until one day. Oh wait, did I screw this up?
SPEAKER_00:No, until one day you need more, and because of that. No, no, you're good. Let's say that was the last day.
SPEAKER_02:And then until one day, and ever since that day is the final beat, is the eighth beat of the story. And ever since that day, um they, you know, whatever, whatever the conclusion is. Whatever the conclusion is. So there's there's those eight simple beats. Okay, and they are very much simple. And are so the entire scene, if you want to break, let's let's say we break up a narrative into eight scenes. You know, if you want to put that much specificity on your format, go ahead and break it up into eight scenes.
SPEAKER_00:Um Do you want to just try this right now? Each beat can just be a line that each one of us says we go around the circle.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, let's party.
SPEAKER_00:Let's go around the circle. Uh so once upon a time, a ballerina was moving to Reno. Moved to Reno.
SPEAKER_04:So, okay, whatever. Um every day in Reno, she would pirouette to 7 Eleven.
SPEAKER_02:Until one day she got her foot stuck in a crack on the sidewalk.
SPEAKER_00:And because of that wait, does that does that work? And because of that, she was afraid to step on cracks.
SPEAKER_04:Um and because of that, she became a crack addict.
SPEAKER_02:Oh boy, I get it. I see what you're talking about. And because of that, she learned dance moves that she never thought were humanly possible thanks to the miracle of crack. Of crack.
SPEAKER_00:And because of that, she got discovered by a famous LA ballet producer. Are we on Until One Day?
SPEAKER_02:I'm so glad we added an extra one in here because I think that's actually really important. Let's finish the story and then I'll talk about why that's great.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay. Uh so she meant I'm sorry until one day. But what did you just say?
SPEAKER_00:Until she got discovered by an LA producer in Reno because of her new dancements.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you bunched two together. I like how you did that. That's pretty cool. Um and ever since that day.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, and ever since that okay, and ever since that I don't know. Um, and ever since that day, she's been uh a clean ballerina with her name and lights.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, next one. Yeah, super simple. So one of the things I like about that format is obviously like it can be super silly in that moment, but um you add an extra and because of that, you kind of like you said, and because of that, and because of that, and then until one day you did it right. Is it three or four? That's the thing, it doesn't matter. So however long you need your story to be, or however what you're working towards in terms of that, like your and because of that could just keep going. That's all the plot is. A plot is because something happens, something else happens. And until we get to the resolution we want, let's just keep throwing in and because of that. So, yes, it's an eight-beat story, but to to say that it has to be like that regimented is is not the you know that's not the point. The thing that's different, I think, about narrative improv versus whatever the hell else you want to call, you know, I I I don't like to classify it necessarily because I think narrative is just another style of improv.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like you could say like montage is like totally different.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly, sure. So like the thing that's different about, you know, scene-based improv, montage style stuff versus narrative is that in montage style stuff, you you're always in service of of the scene, uh, in what's happening in that particular scene. And in narrative, that's not always the case. Yes, you have to be in service of that scene, but also you have to be in service of that scene under the umbrella of the rest of the story. So you're really in service doing what's in service of the story at all times. Um, and if that means, you know, being a secondary character, vocab word of the day, which we'll get to later, um, then that's what it calls for.
SPEAKER_00:Let's let's get to it now. Secondary characters. So our concept of the day is secondary characters. We'll have Tim explain that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I mean I think on the surface, you know, it's a very simple concept. It's you have your main characters and then you have your secondary secondary characters, right? So there you go. All right, podcast over. Um, but but I think that a common pitfall of a lot of improvisers is that we don't know how to play a secondary character because once we're on stage, we're like, oh, well, I have to be here now, and I'm here now forever, you know. That's just not the case. In narrative, I think it's almost a great training ground for playing secondary characters because sometimes it's easier in a story to be like, hey, you know, like uh like um I always use uh Lord of the Rings as my narrative example. Uh one because it's like the most simple story of all time, and they've stretched it into multiple books and and a billion-dollar movie industry, um, and nine hours of film with not including extra features. So you have a story that is the simplest that is stretched out into a very fascinating tale, right? And it's a simple quest, basically, or return a lost item. Um so here's here's Lord of the Rings in in two sentences. Ring gets found, ring gets returned. You know, and but that is it, and then everything else in that is just play. Oh, they run into a spider. That sounds like it could be fun. Right. Oh, but there's ghosts that fly in the swamp. Cool, great, fun. Let's have that. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Any of those things could have happened in any order, probably, if it was written that way, but it because you know, and that's the same thing with improvising and narrative. Like, let's just keep having fun within the context of the world that we've created. What if that happens, what happens after that? Yeah, oh, spider, what happens now? If if a giant spider can attack, what else is true about this world? Is there a ghost that could attack?
SPEAKER_04:And that's one of the fun fun that's one of the fundament one of the fundamental rules, I'm gonna say it, rules of improv, is if this is true, what else is true? I mean, that's what I kind of like about that format because it's so explicit, because I I forget that rule a lot.
SPEAKER_00:But bringing it back to secondary characters, so you have your you have your main character, that's what we're talking about. You know, your antagonist and your protagonist, and all these, like, okay, if that's true, what else is happening? Well, there's other people that they encounter. So it might just be like you have one line, but that line is important to carry carry it forward. So you kind of have to be comfortable with being a secondary character because it's just as important as the antagonist of personality.
SPEAKER_02:That's really a a good point, and I makes me think of my very first time doing a narrative improv show. Um, I used to perform with uh I'm gonna say I still perform with this group, even though we haven't performed in a long time, guys. I miss you, I love you. Uh Wilbur Wilbur Nielbur was the first um improv group that I was ever on and uh performed with them for a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Wilbur Wilbur what?
SPEAKER_02:Wilbur Wilbur Neilbur. Okay Yeah. Um all one word. Uh so the we we used to do we did a lot of different formats. We we've done uh narrative formats, we we explored some really cool things. Um we did a improvised Behind the Music, so a VH1 style uh behind the music, um, where we had a really wonderful musician who played where we improvised songs from this made-up band. So the way we approached it was it was basically a series of monologues. If you're familiar with VH1 Behind the Music, it's kind of you know different scenes with with uh folks telling this story of this band's fall rise and fall. So what we'd get from the audience is we would get um a suggestion of a the name of a band. It basically sprung from an idea of that that game, oh that'd be a good band name, you know. Um so that was our idea for the show, and we'd get the the idea or the suggestion from the audience was let's let's have a band name that that's never you know existed before. Let's hear a band um from your imagination. And we'd get the name of the band, and then we'd get either the decade that they existed in or the style of music that they played. One of those two things, maybe both, depending on how we felt that night. And we'd use that stuff to inform our show, and we'd tell the rise and fall of this this band that we just created. But we'd also have um backing music. Uh so we'd we'd present actual songs that this we'd improvise songs from this band as well. Um it was a really great format, super fun. So we did that one. Um, we did uh choose your own adventure, which was really fun. Uh, other members of this group before I was on it, they did uh improvised uh HB Lovecraft stories. Um and the one format that I did probably for the longest and and with the most um I guess exposure, I don't know. We traveled around with this format to quite a few festivals, was an improvised romantic comedy, and we called it Love Possibly. Um and the secondary character, this is this is as a point. I there's a reason I said all this, I think. Um secondary characters, right? So the very first time I performed was in this show Love Possibly, and I was made into the main character. So the way we started our show was we'd line up the cast in front of the audience and we'd say, uh, of our cast members tonight, who would you like to see fall in love? So the audience picked me to be the person to fall in love, and I was terrified because here I am thinking, like, I'm the main character, uh how do what do I do? Like, and my team took the greatest care of me, um, showed me the best time because as a secondary character, yes, I brought it back. Um as a secondary character, your job is to paint the scene around them and not in that literal like scene painting sense, but like bring things into the scene that move that person throughout the throughout the story, surprise them, you know, show the good show the main character a good time in their story and and you know let them kind of be their guide throughout it as a secondary character. If you think about um movies or any of your favorite movies or books or stories, there's all those secondary characters that have instrumental moments in moving the story forward.
SPEAKER_04:But it seems to me the challenge, so in that format, the that you mentioned, the the rom-com format, like it it's already determined beforehand who's gonna be the primary character. Yeah, so so to me, the big one of the challenges about narrative is that it's a matter of recognition you have to rely on your team for everybody to recognize who's gonna be the main characters and who's gonna be the second character. So can you talk about that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's really difficult, to be honest. It's still something I and I'm by and I want to preface everything. Well, you know, not preface because I've already talked for who knows how long. Um I want to say that I'm by no means an expert on narrative. Um it is a the No, but just on your experience. Yeah, I think that's the style of improv I have the most experience with, and but I'm still learning and like constantly in pursuit of knowledge in this topic. That's why I love being so close to San Francisco, because I can shoot over to bats and gain, you know, knowledge from their 30 years of wisdom and in studying this thing. Um is what was what was I gonna say? I don't even remember. Well, how do you determine the primary in this? That's one of the most difficult things is is organically choosing a a protagonist and um you know, without like explicitly saying like you're the main character of the story, like you need to, you know, whatever. Um yeah, it's recognizing that that in that first three beats of the eight beat story, you know, that the that um I've been taught is called like you know, to call the platform, I think is a really good way of describing it. Is in that platform we're we're figuring out who's the main character. And we're doing that by seeing like basically you know who has the most interesting story to tell with that first in those first three beats. Like who who seems to be the most interesting character that we can follow? Why do we care about who do we care about the most? You know, who do we want to see more from? Whose story would do we want to tell? And you can do that as a teammate by just listening and paying attention and and but also I think narrative really is is another type of format that's really in service of the audience as well. So a lot goes into paying attention to what your audience wants. And you do that by feeling the room, really. You know, do they get excited by a certain character being on stage more? Great, let's tell that character's story, right? So it is a lot of audience feel and and and um and kind of.
SPEAKER_00:Isn't that just kind of like an unexplained uh like thing that you do? Like like it is there a strategy behind learning how to read the audience, or is it just something you have or you don't have?
SPEAKER_02:I think just put yourself in in their seat for a little while. What would you want to happen in the show?
SPEAKER_04:You know? I think where if I my biggest fear with trying a narrative or one of them the other one is remembering what the hell happened in the last scene, but um is um uh worrying about if all of us are on the same page and are perceiving the same, you know, sure.
SPEAKER_02:And I think concern and it always broke. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I guess that does come down to your team and how much you trust each other and you you click with each other and you kind of, you know, vibe and know that yeah. So that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Let's um since it's kind of a natural break, let's uh jump into the history segment.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. Um, so I did want to mention um because Tim talked about um teaching improv to kids with learning dis disabilities and social um I don't know, disabilities challenges. Um I did want to mention, and I've said this before, but that that's how improv got started because um there was At least in the US. Yes, well, this book, Improv Nation, claims that it that's where improv was born. There are s other arguments against that, but um anyways, so a woman named Viola Spoilen, um uh she I think she was new to the country too. Where was she? Oh shoot, I'm I'm doing a terrible job of recalling this, but basically she um she built a class for immigrant children who didn't all speak the same language, who didn't all speak the same language, and so in a way she made improv the language of all, you know, that that and they were able to interact and you know m play with each other.
SPEAKER_00:Um because telling a story is done in more than just words, so you don't have to speak the same language to be able to tell a story.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Yeah, I mean, uh yeah, Spolin's work is is incredible. Um she's obviously very inspiring. Um both just as an improv, you know, founder or whatever, but also as as a specifically with this um for me is is very inspiring because I do love working with kids. Um I think kids are the best improvisers. I mean that's what they do all the time. They're always playing. Yeah, so Super fun.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and it's cool that it like started like it there's always been a teaching element to it, you know. That was that's its foundation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Which I think is cool. But I just wanted to mention that because you had you had brought up that you had worked with kids and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, no, thank you for that. Yeah, it's always good to a reminder of how that start kind of got got going in the US. I mean, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Um, but I did wanna I did wanna for this segment, I did want to read out of the introduction of um improv nation um something that the author talks about just in general about improv and why, like kind of defining it as an art form and and why people go back to it. Um so this is what he says. I'm gonna read it. Um so uh I think that's partly why people went to went to see want to see and be part of it, returned for more and keep coming back. They can't believe it. They sorry, I can't read. They can't believe anyone sane or insane would risk that kind of public humiliation. And when improv really hits the heights, they really can't believe it. No way, you'll hear over your shoulder. They must have written that. They couldn't have just made it up. On those nights, it's like watching a magic trick. But while a magician always knows more than the audience, improv's magic is just as mysterious to its improvisers. It's a special form that says, even though you're down there and we're up here, we're discovering this together. Yep. And I just like it gives me chills when I read that because that to me sums up the art form, and that is what is so magical as it says, that and distinguishes it from a lot of I mean, there might be other, like maybe performance art or something, but you know, yeah, that is what yeah, and that's what's so amazing about it.
SPEAKER_02:That's page one of that book, too. I should probably open it. I have that book on my shelf. Um page two, one, two. Man, that's pretty good stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so anyways, pages up. Yeah, continue.
SPEAKER_02:Um no, I I I I completely agree with that. I especially love the part of that about you know, the magic is just as as real to the improvisers on stage as it is to the audience.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It reminds me of shows and and for and once again I I do want to say like I don't think narrative is a better style of improv. It's not superior for me, it's what I enjoy doing the most. So I will talk about it in maybe in the that it sounds like it's superior, but I don't think that's true. I just think for me it's what I enjoy the most. So that's that's why I'm the most passionate about it. Um Yeah, I remember specific shows where you know we're we're 20 minutes in and 22 minutes into a a set, a 30-minute set, and we don't know, like we really don't know what's gonna happen, you know, and and yes, we know like the the arc of the story and probably what needs to happen, but like how that thing that needs to happen is going to happen is a total surprise. And those are the best type of shows because you kind of like the the you know the lights get pulled or the the curtain gets pulled at the end of the show or whatever, and you're standing back there with your teammates, and you're like, holy shit, what's the thing? What did we just do pull that off? Like we pulled it off. I don't really know what we pulled off, but we pulled something off, and it feels great, right? Um also there's so much pleasure for me in a show that misses the mark because it that's just as much a part of the experience for the audience uh and for the performers, I think. And for me, what keeps me coming back you know, I I've done scripted work, and when you're like when a run of a show is over, I'm ready to be done with that show, like and move on to something new.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because we've kind of got everything out of it that we can get out of it. We've we've milked it for everything it's worth, right? But with an improv, it's like no, it's never ending.
SPEAKER_04:It's yeah, yeah, it's always gonna be something new. Well, and I think with I mean, not to be like teachery, but I was a teacher for many years, so I'm going to be one. Um, but you know, I think I think with any craft, the most you're gonna learn is when you make errors. Oh yeah. So just when you said, you know, even when a show doesn't go well or a scene doesn't go well, it can be the most awful feeling in the world. But the you're not gonna learn and grow if you don't make mistakes.
SPEAKER_02:Definitely so that's one of the reasons I love short form improv so much is because it is for me, it's like you just you get to kind of play with reckless abandon. I mean a controlled recklessness, I guess, but you know it's it's like freedom to fail though, freedom to fail. There should be that in all forms of improv, but for in short form, you know, it's just so it's it's laid out. You know, you have three minutes to give this thing a chance corruptly, and if it doesn't go well, it's over. You don't have to try again. You move on to the next thing. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so my next question is kind of gonna be history-oriented and lead us back into a narrative improv. Um so the Herald uh created by Del Close is kind of a format where you it's a three-beat show where you have, you know, basically three scenes and then you're replaying those three scenes over it. Is it would you consider the Herald a form of narrative improv because you're continuing?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know anything about the Herald. I never I've never like uh this this uh uh man, I might be burning improv bridges right now. I don't care. Uh let's not talk against the Herald. I don't care about the Herald, and there's I've I've I will never teach the Herald class at Reno Improv because I've never done one. Really? Okay. I mean I've been a part of Herald's, but like I've never been on a Herald team. I've never taken a class that studied the Herald. I have performed in Heralds, but that's simply because like people said, hey, we're doing a show tonight, you want to be in it? And they just so happened to do a Herald. I have never I 90% of my training is in narrative improv.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It I I started in a theater that did both scripted and improvised work, and the improvised work was heavily inspired by uh Keith Johnstone, who, you know, um is a playwright uh and an improviser and uh and an improv guru. Um and you know, it it just tends to lean more to the narrative side of things, and that's that's just where I started. It doesn't mean it's better or worse, but for me, you know, once again, it's it's what I started learning and what I continue to hopefully pursue learning because I I do I love storytelling, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I'm very sure that I can see how the Herald could be um narrative and how it could be just buried montagey because you basically have three different scenes and you're carrying it through three acts, kind of like a play would be set up. So you the three scenes can be totally unrelated, but you're carrying that scene into another scene, and then there's a there's a beginning, middle, and end. So in that sense, people might say it's narrative.
SPEAKER_04:There's a structure that's narrative at the same time.
SPEAKER_02:I think all improv is narrative. I think uh because if you're not like if there's not a story to your scene, what is there? Like a game, I guess, you know. Right. But for me, even that game tells a story, it tells a story of the characters on stage. Well, even the way those characters play a game is telling a story. Right. So well, and even with montage, you can bring back characters and put them in different situations or with other characters that you've so you can revisit, which is you know, uh I I had a chat with um Roy Janick, uh who is a member of PGraph, um a while back, uh probably about a year and a half ago, and I sent him a message and I was like, hey, I want to start um working with a narrative team here in Reno, but for the most part everything that they've done is is montage herald, um, you know, I for lack of a better term, uh Chicago style, I guess, you know, kind of training. And I was like, what would you how would I, you know, present this to them without you know scaring the shit out of everybody, basically. And like, you know, I want to present it as not like this crazy different thing, it's just a a different style, a different format, so to speak. Um and he was he said to me, he's like, have the uh one thing I really like doing is having them do a montage where everybody has to play the same character the whole time. And I was like, Really? Then you're that's like a narrative montage, and he's like, do a few of those, and you'll end up just telling a story. It won't be a montage, it'll just be it'll be a montage of scenes, but isn't that what every story is, anyways? Those scenes will be connected because the characters are therefore connected.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Well, and it's like sorry, go ahead. No, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Those histories that you create that those characters have, right? Once you when you continue to play them, you can't just ignore them, right? That's that's stuff that's built in. And I think even if we say like, hey, these scenes don't have to be connected, yes, we're gonna be playing the same characters, but they can be doing different times and spaces. Our brain, and this goes back to my point about we are natural storytellers, our brain wants to make sense of their story. Right. It it wants to, and the audience wants us to. So I think it's it it's it's much more approachable than it than it might look when you go and see someone do an improvised narrative piece. It's like, oh, how do they pull that off?
SPEAKER_04:Well, uh for me it's it's not it's yeah, it's less it's less mysterious and and I mean like this quote says something like oh and like a magician's where they know more than their audience. Well, there is a little bit of that. I think if you study improv, you there there are rules and techniques and formats that do that, then you're like, oh, I see how this works that help you be a better improviser. So there is a little bit of a lot of things.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I mean we already talked about the eight-beat format. So yes, there are there are things, and I think I guess for me like that stuff maybe is in the back of my mind at this time. So I go into that with recognizing like oh, if we can follow this eight-beat structure even loosely, I mean, even if you want to break it down into three beats, really beginning, middle, and end. That's essentially, you know, or platform plot resolution, you know. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and even like with I was this reminds me too of kind of like I'm just thinking of all the different formats, and I haven't done that many, but like the slacker format, you know, where um you know, where there's still a character that stays on stage from the previous scene, and then the new person brings in a new scene, but that character that stays on stage is the same character. Even that's what even though it's not I don't even know that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I don't I don't like I don't know these formats.
SPEAKER_04:I just know But even that it's and then and then eventually both of those characters go away because then you know other but but there is a connection, you know, there's a flow that that happens, even though it's not like beginning beginning, middle, end. I'm just trying to say, like, you know, there's that connection and flow to the next thing instead of the disconnected just random scenes just smushed together. Yeah. Does that make sense? And I think that And I think like you're saying, we're always looking for that story. That's you were saying, like, we're always looking for that sort of connection to what's coming up next.
SPEAKER_02:Or I think that there's that connection in any and in montage, it's just not it's not like storyline connection. It's it's like, oh, the theme from that past scene has carried over into this new scene. Like I was inspired by a a theme that popped up during that, you know. And and then yes, this scene is completely new characters, but we're gonna share that same theme or explore that theme further.
SPEAKER_04:Or like we're gonna do this game and we're gonna like repeat this thing.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so just one we have time for one last question. Um personally, what do you feel is your biggest struggle as an improviser? And do you feel like narrative helps you in any way?
SPEAKER_04:Um Tim's eyes got really big just now. Like, oh my god, I have so much to say about that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, yeah, yeah, I mean, geez, what's my biggest weakness? And uh we should have some guests come in and tell us. Um we're gonna do a podcast.
SPEAKER_04:We're gonna do a podcast, a whole podcast on Tim's weaknesses. So stay tuned for that, y'all. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think that so one of the toughest things about narrative improv is that is that you have to, as a group, agree on the story from the get-go. And you I mean, yes, we're creating and destroying ideas in improv all the time, right? We have an idea and then it's like not the time for it. We have an idea, and it's like, well, so in a montage, you have an idea, you're like, oh, that scene makes me think of this scene. I can table that until it's until a new scene is it's time to do a new scene. In narrative, that story is on a constant track, and we're not rewinding and and we're not cutting to move to other things, really. So you have to be willing to be like, oh, the story could be going to this place, and then the very next word out of the other character's mouth on stage could completely destroy the reality of that idea you had. We're like, oh shit, well, that can't happen because everybody's dead now, right? So you have to obviously see an extreme example, but you have to be willing to scrap that idea that you had, no matter how brilliant you might have had it, it might have been, you might have been ready, like you might have had one foot on the stage and those words change. You have to be willing to once again this goes back to always being in service of the story as a whole, not as just the current scene on stage, because if you're al always only in in service of that current scene and not recognizing, you know, the big picture of the story you're trying to tell, then you're gonna end up doing a montage, probably, you know? Um, or at least like a narrative-y type montage, right? Um and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just if you're trying to shoot for a a solid piece of you know, an improvised play, so to speak, with a real beginning, middle, and an end, then you want to be in service of the story. So, what's my biggest weakness? How did I manage to not talk about that? Maybe that's weak. Oh, my biggest weakness is that we've only been recording for an hour and 15 minutes, but we've been in this room for three hours. Um talking it up. I think from what I think, and this is probably not my biggest weakness, but what I think uh my biggest weakness for myself is, and what I'm really trying to work on right now, is is playing those secondary characters with um with like passion and and excited with excited to be them because it's almost easier, especially if you've been doing narrative for a while, right? It's almost easier to fall into that main character role because you know you're gonna like everyone else's job is just to kind of support and move you through your story. Um and not always, but sometimes that's that's the way it works out. So for me, it's it's it's twofold. It's playing those secondary characters, but always but also having those secondary characters be actual characters, and not just you know, one of the six versions of myself. Like, yeah, like this is Tim Mahoney as a butler. This is like, no, that's a butler named like George, and it's not like any it it has, you know, my my personal like history involved in it, obviously, because it's impossible not to have that, but like that's a real character that exists in this story and is specific to this story, not just like one of a you know, maybe a dozen or whatever stock characters that I tend to lean on. I think for me and in narrative work specifically, I want to my characters to be in service of the story, not in service of like my comfort level playing them.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's a hard thing to do. Yeah, well, I think that's for everybody struggling with it, you know.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting because I think I actually mentioned in another episode on this that like one of my first times performing on stage, I had the immense privilege of getting to play with you, and I felt horrible on stage. I was like, this is going awful until the moment you jump on stage and added two lines, and you basically made me able to go on. I don't even remember what it was. He was he just added something that like I was completely blanking. I was like, I was like frozen on stage and I did not know what to do until he walked in, he just like dropped a nugget, and then I'm like, oh okay, I can finish the scene. And it gave me the confidence to like keep going because I was just like, God, let's gonna be over, and I've got nothing.
SPEAKER_02:And I mean that's super generous of you say that. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but and that's because though you hear that like make your scene partner look good all the time. And sometimes we put that in our brain as like, I gotta save my scene partner by and to do that, I gotta be on stage all the time. But no, sometimes it is just a matter of like coming in, and that's what a secondary character does in a beautiful way, is comes in and and puts puts some stuff on the plate or on the table you're sitting at and lets you play with it. Right. And then uh there's a woman named Patty Stiles who I could talk about for days because she's amazing. Um and once again, a Keith Johnstone uh person, you know what I mean? Um she I had the amazing privilege to work with her very pretty early in my improv career. Um I yeah, I'm like getting to like speechless talking about her because she really is amazing and wonderful, and um, I've never felt so taken care of on stage. Um I was new she's been performing forever, you know what I mean? She's she's a wonderful and brilliant and all knowledgeable on everything, but also an amazing performer and and act for anyone who's playing with her. And you know, I regularly think back to playing with her on stage and thinking like, man, I hope to someday be able to make people feel like she is making me feel on stage. Um because it was just so taken care of. I was never worried about what was happening, and at the same time I didn't know what was happening. And it was it was great.
SPEAKER_04:Um so I yeah, I mean that's I feel like I I I feel like just like coming from a a perspective of more of a beginner improv person, um, I feel like getting to that place, you have to be almost like a more seasoned, I mean maybe not, maybe it just depends on your personality too, but you have to be a more seasoned improviser because when you're first beginning, you're trying things out and you wanna you're trying to like, you know, do stuff on stage, but really um, you know, you want to get to a place where you have more of a bird's eye view on the art of it of improv impro improvising and um to where you you can recognize, oh, I see what this person needs, like you did with Jess, and I'm just gonna go and drop that little nugget to them, you know.
SPEAKER_02:And I think it's like I said like it is just a drop. It's like here it is and go. Right. Like you guys have got this, you just need it. So, and the reason I brought up Patty Styles was that she explained um uh a lot of formats and and things have worked and have been directed, so there's an actual director sitting in the audience, like helping the scene move along. And they're not there to like have total control over the scene, although uh Keith Johnstone um did create a format called Gorilla Theater, which is five directors, and um there are a number of directors directing scenes very explicitly, and the show is is a director-based show, like so they're very much a part of the show. Um the audience is you know fully aware of it. So, anyways, I don't want to get down another rabbit hole. Um look up the International Theater Sports Institute, they uh they're the controlling body of Maestro Theater Sports and Gorilla Theater. Um, they're all three of those formats are awesome. I hope to one day bring one of them to Reno.
SPEAKER_04:Um cool, that'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, theater sports is is one of my favorite types of shows. It's like a um a team-based show uh about a competition. It's really fun. Really, really fun. But anyways.
SPEAKER_00:So uh as we're wrapping up, I I we're gonna wrap it up. We have more than three hours. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah, often it's not even news. Uh so dare I ask um to plug anything else. I feel like our our uh is gonna be huge already, but it'd be like I feel like I've plugged all all things in other cities.
SPEAKER_02:So by the way, if you're in any of those places, like go and support live theater and live uh improvised theater and and visit those folks. And you know, one of the great things about the improv world is they're very accessible. Uh you know, uh at Bats I learned and met so many amazing people by just kind of staying after a show. They had to talk back after one of their improv shows. And I we just talked about you know narrative improv and forms and and and how to like dive into genre work and all these really cool things. And I I never visited an improv theater where folks don't aren't excited to talk to people who are enjoying what they're doing. Yeah, um, so go and visit these wonderful places.
SPEAKER_00:If people want to find you and and learn more about you or take one of your classes, where can they find you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, all right. Um so I I teach and perform at Reno Improv. Um I'm currently teaching level one where uh we just had our fifth week of class. And then I'll be teaching another level one coming up here in a few weeks. I believe that starts on October 2. I'm trying to stall while I pull out my calendar here.
SPEAKER_04:Um we can put it on the notes too.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's October 28th. It's Monday, October 28th. Yeah, is the next level one class starting.
SPEAKER_00:Clear your Mondays.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's from and you do that from 6 to no when is it?
SPEAKER_02:6 to 8:30 on Monday nights at Reno Improv.
unknown:Cool.
SPEAKER_02:And then if you want to see me perform, uh I perform with a couple of different teams right now. One called We Digress. We just got back from the San Francisco Improv Festival, which was an amazing experience for for uh the team, and it was really great. Um and We Digress performs at our own uh sort of um customized format we call the digression. We found uh that we have a a real knack for talking over each other, so we've kind of let that inspire our show. Um and then Ghost is is a very new team that's you know uh exploring. The world of narrative improv and and kind of trying to figure out what that's going to look like for this first narrative team at Reno Improv and hopefully it'll inspire some other folks to to pursue narrative or jump on board with us and play with us and have some fun. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have any websites or uh social handles you want to share with the world?
SPEAKER_02:Um you can visit my very poorly run Instagram account at Tim Mahoney Comedy. I think the last time I posted was like last July. Uh so don't visit that. Don't waste your time, visit somebody else. Um that's it for me, I think, in terms of social media. I mean I'm on Twitter, but like you don't want to. That's dark a dark place. Don't go there.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, so um now I have a very, you know, serious last final question. Um I don't think I actually came up with one, so I'm just gonna come up with one off the top of my head. Um if you were God, what would be your first act as God?
SPEAKER_02:If I was God, what would be my first act as God? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god. Oh, yeah. This is gonna be serious two.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, it would be to to end child poverty and child hunger. Oh because yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't get silly. I was trying to be funny.
SPEAKER_02:As much as I yeah, I can't you're trying to be funny?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, well, we always ask we always ask a non-serious question at the end of the show. So that's yeah, it's fine. So it's fine.
SPEAKER_04:It's fine if you want to be a good human being. Oh, right.
SPEAKER_02:Well then yeah, I'll stick with my hands. No, uh you know, uh yeah, I mean I could go on about that, but um Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah. Um it's a tough world.
SPEAKER_00:We're not gonna end on that.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no, well, and so the reason I was on my fresh in my brain is because I I just saw this video, and maybe this is a good way to end. I just saw this video and I've seen it a couple it was from a few years ago, about this group of performers essentially that would travel um to areas where, you know, really, really areas were having some hard times, you know. Um and just play with the kids. Just play with them. Like they were like a a group of like circus performers. So you know they'd do like face painting and juggling and like that they'd bring the kids in and do like some theater stuff with them and acting and just like just show these kids like that there is some like joy in life. And you know, your imagination ri can take you to some really, really cool places, even if you're on some hard times. And I think to a certain level, we're all on some hard times at some point at varying levels in our lives, right? Whether it's personal or you're dealing with you know family members who are having trouble or whatever. And for me, uh that I think ultimately is why I went and stick with improv, is because it is an escape. It's a it's it's it's a place where you can play and not forget about your problems, but kind of be present with them in a in a very human way.
SPEAKER_04:Um so that they seem they no longer seem like they're ruling your life or consuming you. It's like okay, you can deal with this.
SPEAKER_02:And like just being in a place where like everybody is is also kind of recognizing that too. And just having two hours a week or whatever it is for you for me, it's a lot more right now. Um where yeah, you just get to to play and maybe explore those topics if that's what you want to do in that moment, or not talk about them at all and just be like turtles, you know, trying to trying to finish a race. Like whatever, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And I think that's the beauty of it, is that you can get as deep into it as you want to, or it can be just silly and fun and and goofy, and all are welcome. Yeah, which is another, you know, to explore that world too.
SPEAKER_03:So cool.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you so much for being on our show, Tim. We had an excellent hour and we're gonna go.
SPEAKER_02:I know I wish I recorded oh, it is recorded. That's how this works, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, recorded it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but speaking of which, where can you hear that recording? Or is that already in our outro?
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's in our outro. You can go to for theloveimprov.com. You'll probably hear it again in our outro. Um, tune in uh next time as well. We uh coming up next uh in the next couple episodes, we have Aurora Bowles. Yeah, she's like I've heard of her.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:She is coming as well as Courtney Rapp is coming down to the show.
SPEAKER_04:And Aurora is like, I would say, like, she's a founder basically too of Reno Improv. I don't know if she's officially so, but in my mind she is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we got some really um tasty treats for you coming up on on the next before the lovely improv.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, I just got the hiccups.
SPEAKER_00:Please help us out. Yeah, please help us out by sharing and liking and doing all the things. Yeah. Um until next time.
SPEAKER_03:This has been for love of improv.
SPEAKER_05:This has been for the love of improv. We want to thank you for tuning in. If you would like to join the conversation, you can find our website at for the loveofimprov.com. And don't forget that life is a stage. So get out there and perform the hell out of it.
