For The Love of Improv
For The Love of Improv
Jason Sarna | Sketch Comedy
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We talk with Jason Sarna about sketch comedy and how it relates to improv. Jason studied at Second City, IO, and The Annoyance. Most recently, he taught a year-long sketch course at Reno Improv which culminated in the 60-minute sketch show, Herd Immunity. We discuss the process of writing a sketch, character creation, heightening, and much more!
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Hello. Welcome to the seventh episode of For the Love of Improv.
SPEAKER_00:For the Love of Improv.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we always have to sing that somehow. That's not the thing.
SPEAKER_00:We are your hosts. I am Jesse Wicks.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm Katie Welsh.
SPEAKER_00:Today we're talking with Jason Sarna.
SPEAKER_03:Hello.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, Jason. Yeah, uh, Jason, so our topic of today is sketch and kind of how it uh relates to improv. Uh Jason actually um studied sketch uh and performed it and did all that good stuff at uh Second City as well as an IAO, and we'll get into that later. So uh yeah, that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00:And um before we get started though, we just like to let you know that we're not necessarily experts at improv, and we actually have the belief that it's really hard to become an expert at improv because the like all the different levels, you still have something to learn. And so our kind of mantra here on For the Love of Improv is just that you we're all learning from each other. So kind of the philosophy here is we're gonna bring people on and kind of just pig your brains about everything improv so that we can learn and we can grow as people too. And so we can hope that people can join us in that and learn something from today.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And uh we do have a couple segments that we do uh on the podcast, one being a game segment and also a history segment, and then a concept of the day. So we'll get to all those later.
SPEAKER_00:Lots to unpack in this episode. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I'd like to say I'm not also not an expert anything. So I think that that's a great way to to do a show or talk about improv or talk about anything creative. Because I feel like you're always learning and always learning new things and it's impossible to master. I mean, people who probably tell you they master it are probably full of crap.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right, and a lot of times I realize that like you get kind of on a roll and then you think you're when you think you're doing really good, it gets that you start getting in your head. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, but I would I will say at the very least, you have more experience and you've taught sketch, you've done it a lot more than Jess and I. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:So I I actually noticed that some of the people who are more skilled at improv are actually the more humble ones that because it's almost tumbled them a bit, you know. So true, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like too, like just really quick on improv though, like even if you start getting built up, like I mean, especially with improv or writing in general, you get you do anything, you get knocked back down very quickly.
SPEAKER_01:Totally.
SPEAKER_03:It's a huge check of your ego or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's like a creative, it's like the creative thing, you know, it's like it almost squelches your creativity in a way because you're like, I'm so awesome. Yeah. And then you ease back on kind of being more, you know, so meticulous and trying as hard, I guess, or something, you know. Yeah. It's so true.
SPEAKER_00:So, Jason, we're gonna start off by asking you a question that we ask all of our guests, and that is not what your spirit in mind, which is what I have written down here. You don't have to answer that question. Um why did you show up to your first improv class or workshop and why did you keep coming back?
SPEAKER_03:Um, so I started um so improv related. So I was probably when I was twenty-three I moved to California with because I I was gonna be a cop originally, and then I really yeah, and then I was colorblind, so then I like lost out on this like big job opportunity when I was like 21.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:So I kind of had a big uh I didn't know what to do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And long story short, I ended up like moving to California with my friend who was going to school for drumming in Hollywood, and I just didn't have anything to do, so I was like, I'll go out there. So um and that's when I started, we started writing like a screenplay together, and I started taking this class at UCLA. I applied and got into this like professional program as like an inner it was like not it was it was like you had to have a um a bachelor's degree, but you didn't need a it was like in between a bachelor's and a master's degree. It was like a pre-prep program to go there, but then I was there, I didn't know what I was doing. I was so young, it was so weird being out in Hollywood. Like we lived in West Hollywood, and I worked like right down the street from the comedy store at Radio Shack. I was like, You worked at Radio Shack? Yeah, I was like literally didn't know what I was doing, losing my mind, and kind of like got to get out of there. Kind of like so. I left, came back to Chicago, and then I was like working at Papa John's delivering pizzas. Um and my friend Courtney, well, I first found out about Second City. My same friend who I was living with in California, where we called him one time and we were like, we're like, we're funny, we could do stuff. And we like call them.
SPEAKER_01:We laugh at each other.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And we just called them and were like, hey, we want to do some we got some stuff to write, and they're like, Well, we have classes or whatever. We're like, Well, we're not taking those. We're better than that.
SPEAKER_01:We don't need that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so that was the first time I knew about second city because I was I grew up in the suburbs, probably 30 minutes southwest of the city. So I d I went and like grow up in the city. But then my friend, when I came back, I was working at Papa John's, I was like 24 at the time. My friend Courtney was like, Oh, I'm gonna start taking comedy classes at Second City. Do you wanna do it? Like together, and I was like, Yeah, sure. Like I was always into comedy. I was writing a lot of like humor blogs, like I wrote a lot about um I have like 200 pages or so of like stuff on Radio Shack, stuff I do I bet there's a lot of material there. I wrote like all these blogs for like MySpace.
SPEAKER_00:So were you studying comedy at any point?
SPEAKER_03:No, I was just always into it. Like I just in liked comedy as a kid, like growing up watching the Three Stooges and um whatever else I would watch. I mean movies, a lot of movies and stuff like that. But so, anyways, I went there with Courtney and it was sketch, and I started sketch, and I thought I was funny, like everybody who starts sketch probably does. And I've wrote about probably like every guy does, probably like masturbation and stupid, like that happens in the sketch world because it's stand-up comedy.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that's all it is. Sorry guys, but all the beginner guys. What's that about?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:But I wrote one about my my first sketch was about a black box that my my doctor gave me a black box when I was like seventh grade, and it had a bunch of note cards in it. And he's like, here's I was like, I'm gonna give you this box, and uh, if you see anything you want to talk about, let me know.
SPEAKER_01:And he left, well, my penis.
SPEAKER_03:He left He left the room, and then I was slipping through it. It's like suicide, depression, all these like heavy stuff, and then it's like masturbation. I'm just like, no. And he's and he's came back, he's like, anything you want to talk about? And I'm like, nope.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, that's that's what I'm sweet and sad at the same time, and funny at the same time.
SPEAKER_03:So that's what I wrote my first sketch about, and I was like, I just was continuing on. I didn't really know what I was doing there or had any sort of concept of it, but then every sketch teacher would say, if you want to get better at sketchwriting, take an improv class. I had no idea what improv was. I saw a show years or two, like a few years back when I was 21 in um Vegas. I went to like a show. I think they had a second city out there. They had something that I saw in Vegas, and that was the first thing of improv, but I still didn't even know what it was exactly. I didn't know that they were like just doing that off the cuff. I thought they were just funny people acting funny.
SPEAKER_00:I know if you don't know what improv is, you're like, what? I have several people come up to me and be like, I heard you're a stand-up comedian now. I'm like, no. Yeah, that's everyone says that to me.
SPEAKER_03:They're like, tell me jokes. I work. This guy the other day is like, tell me some jokes. He's like, You say you teach comedy. Oh my god, like I don't have any.
SPEAKER_01:You're like, it's it's not how it works. But yeah. And then people feel like they expect you to be funny all the time, and you're like, I'm just trying to do my job here, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. So yeah, I mean, I took the sketch class and got an improv class, and improv the first level is pretty much all mirroring, a lot of the like Violet Smollen stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, a lot of passing energy balls from each other. I didn't know what it was.
SPEAKER_01:Were you like, this is cool, or were you like, this is dumb?
SPEAKER_03:I was I didn't I really think in back, I was just like Did you not judge it that much? I just thought it was I I was like, well, I guess this is gonna help me get better at writing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, I don't know how. It's like it was like the karate kid thing. I say that a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Wax on, wax off. It's cool sort of thing. I'm like, I guess this is gonna help me get better as a writer.
SPEAKER_01:And do you feel like it did?
SPEAKER_03:Um once I started getting into the I mean, Second City movies you were really slow throughout the process. I mean, you're not on stage until the third level.
SPEAKER_01:So And how many like classes do you take up?
SPEAKER_03:There's five levels. Okay. So there's A, B, C, D, E. They're in each level. Each level. Oh wow. So uh A and B. You're not you're not on stage till after C. So that's twenty-four weeks of improv. And then you're on stage for um like fifteen minutes.
SPEAKER_00:So I mean what is it then if you're not on stage? Is it mostly just like theory and education?
SPEAKER_03:And just education, and then it's like, see you later, sign up for the next one. And then see you later, sign up for the next one. And then they really delay it. I mean, and the the sketchwriting program is I think it was like a year and a half. Wow. And you don't do any sort of thing until the final show.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's the thing. I mean, we're we're gonna talk about this later. I don't know how much you want to stay on. Jess is the sort of the one that's like, we need to stay on track.
SPEAKER_00:Um, just for our guests, because we haven't really introduced it. Today's topic is sketch, as you might have already guessed, is sketch. And um Jason started in sketch and then moved into improv, so we thought he would be a great person to talk about this. Katie took his sketch class at the Reno Improv. Well, it's amazing. I couldn't get in because I came too late.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's a big commitment too. I mean, you have to be it's every Sunday y for like a year pretty much. So it's a big commitment.
SPEAKER_00:So this is really in-depth stuff, and I hope we can learn some stuff. We got a bunch of questions, so take it from Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, I think we can just continue the flow. I mean, it's like I think one of the things too I wanted people because um I know when I learned about like Second City, like my impression, because I didn't know anything about it, and I was like, oh, that's where everybody from like Sarite Live comes out of, like, you know. And then I was talking to this girl, I was actually recently in um in a stand-up comedy competition, and she's like, Oh yeah, you know, I perform, you know, I I I go to Second City, and then I'm like, and this was in LA because there's a school there, and and I was like, Wait, is it what can anybody do it? Like, I was just like, What's the deal? Like, you know, and so um, so can you explain a little bit like what it's like like is everybody that goes to Second City like automatically on Saturday Live?
SPEAKER_03:Uh well not not me. Like, how does that all work? The way it works, I mean it's still I still have a veil from it, like don't really have the insider scoop because I wasn't like an in it's it's a lot of politics and I mean second city was but how do you get do you have to apply?
SPEAKER_01:Like how do you actually can you just sign up? Can anybody sign like what for classes? Yeah, or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Classes, anyone could sign up. So you could sign up for the sketchwriting. I mean, when I started it was still sketch and improv. And then I was there for like six years, not at Second City specifically, but throughout Chicago. I did Second City, then I did um what's it called? Um IO The Annoyance.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the Annoyance, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Then I did a lot of stuff with this guy, Jimmy Crane, and then I did the I.O. at the end. Okay. And I.O. and that was Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, anyways, um anyone could sign up for Second City for the sketch or the improv, but then So there's no like you have to get in like as a like a college application where they're like, well, no, there was a I wanted the last thing I was doing was getting into directing.
SPEAKER_03:I took directing at the Annoyance with this guy Mick Napier, who directed a lot of um Second City mainstage shows, and he's like the head guy at The Annoyance.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03:And um I took directing with him, and then I was going to and then that Second City had a directing program and that you had to apply for. I see. And Mick, I and Mick's like I could give you a recommendation. So I had to like fill out and what they do that if you get hired as if you get on that directing program, it's like a year long. And then Second City has um ships out there like sailing like in cruise ships, and they have like a tour bus that they like go on tour with with like archived sketches and stuff. So I possibly could have uh or got a job teaching at Second City, so it's like I could have had something maybe happen there if I did the directing program.
SPEAKER_01:Hang on, um, Jess has to hydrate. This happened last time.
unknown:There we go.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, sorry. Everybody drink a sip of water. Just a little reminder to stay hydrated.
SPEAKER_03:Um so yeah, so that you had to apply to, then the improv levels. There was five improv, A, B, C, D, E, those are the done beginners. But then if you wanted to get in the advanced improv and do the whole thing, like Second City is famous for basically what they do on the main stage is they have the actors improvise scenes and then the the scenes that are good and worthy of turning into sketch, they'll write into sketch.
SPEAKER_01:I see.
SPEAKER_03:So that's then what they put on for their shows. So that's called the conservatory, and you have to audition to get into that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And then if you get into that, like do you get paid, or is it just like, oh, I get the honor of not the conservatory, okay?
SPEAKER_03:But the then there's also what they call general auditions. So general auditions at Second City, that's where you go and then you could get cast and put on a ship, or you could be put on like the touring company.
SPEAKER_01:One of their like monetized. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Then you could get hired, or you could go on to the ETC. The the there's the ETC and the main stage, so those are the two biggest stages there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So when you're doing this, is this like a like kind of university style program where you're you're getting loans to do it, or are you like working while you're doing it?
SPEAKER_03:I was just working while I was doing it. I mean, the classes when I was there and this was like mid-2000s were I think I was paying like 300 something apiece for the sketch classes, and then depending on improv is probably the same. Um, and then Annoyance was always the cheapest. They were like 200 something, which is nice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's awesome. Actually, it sounds really low for Chicago.
SPEAKER_03:And every theater had different philosophies of how they do things. Um, but anyways, for SNL though, um, I don't know how it worked with um Second City, but I know that at IO the owner, Sharna Halpern, was her name. And she's so she's the owner.
SPEAKER_00:I read her book. We'll put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um she so basically what I've heard from the grapevine was um if you're on a team at IO, bas or if you're friendly with her and everyone knows each other there. It's again, it's a small community, like everybody here probably knows each other. It's like everyone knows the main people. So I guess Lauren Michaels goes down to IO and watches people have like short audit auditions. But you have to get like invited, or you have to be in or you have to be in the in the know in order to get that. Uh-huh. And I never was at that level. Uh-huh. Um, I was just mainly taking classes and I didn't interact with anybody really.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you weren't you weren't like the schmoozer networker type.
SPEAKER_03:I possibly, yeah, maybe could have been. Yeah. But I just never and I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I was I started writing and then for whatever reason improv sucked me along and got me into all this other stuff. Because I saw it getting it, I did see it helping the sketchwriting just because you learn about dialogue, you see how people talk, um, you see what works on stage, you know, this is stuff that falls flat or the stuff that has energy throughout the whole scene. So and I just loved watching it like more than anything, like watching being in class with my classmates would be fun to hang out and watch the scenes, and then when I would F go up, I'd be like, Oh crap. And then I was like, sometimes I'd do really good or I'd just bomb.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I had like those are my two things. Right. My two modes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I feel like that's mostly everybody's mode, two modes. Um, well, and the other thing too, so I mean, we've kind of skipped over this, but like I kind of feel like we need to talk about what is sketch. I mean, I know that's a huge topic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:First day in one of your sketch classes, people are like, okay, what are we doing here? That's a good way to approach it. Yeah. You know, like like what's the 101 fundamentals that like we have to keep in mind when we're deciding whether or not to do a sketch class.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um the first thing I I mean, how I taught it, I think the first thing you have to do is realize that everyone's voice is unique and different. So I think getting the writers, like I had them do a um a writer's notebook, I called it. It's basically um just writing down observations that you find funny. Just to start figuring out what you find funny and then reading those out in class and just seeing how everyone's kind of different and everyone has their like unique um point of view on life and everything like that. And I think and knowing that yours is a nut yours is your thing. It's like you don't have to adapt to anybody else or change for whoever else. It's like just becoming more confident in that, and then from there it's like, well, it's five pages, and you give them the five-point structure. There's a structure for sketch that I learned.
SPEAKER_01:Um we have to just I don't know. I don't have the magical fingers.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, it's like um it's about character. Um a lot of sketch that I learned is about character transformation. Like how do you get um the character who's the sketch is mainly about how do you get this guy to to change or this woman to change throughout um the process of this five pages.
SPEAKER_00:But there's a like a heightening of where the character starts where they're going.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Um so I think once you learn the structure of it, it's like it's five pages. There could be anywhere from two to six characters typically, because a typical cast is about you know, six people, is what I learned. And I'm sure it's different everywhere else, but it's like that's just how it was how I was trained and what I learned, so that's what I just kind of stuck with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And um then you start learning that there's different types of sketches. There's like clash of context, fish out of water, moral dilemma, inappropriate response, and then you start learning those patterns, and then you write to those patterns, and then you start, I don't know. It's kind of just um it's they're kind of just short mini plays, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:And how long would like a five page sketch be?
SPEAKER_03:How long performed? Yeah. Typically five minutes. Five minutes. Yeah. Yeah, it's about a minute a page. Okay. Um and you just learn the process of like a lot of people write a lot of dialogue at first, or they'll write you don't really need it's like bare bones. You don't need a lot of description. It's you just set the scene like a restaurant.
SPEAKER_00:Is there any one one style that you find yourself gravitating towards that you do more often or you find works for you?
SPEAKER_03:And writing sketch? Um Well, I guess it'd be from the patterns. Um I think one of my I don't know, I just like mo basically um I don't know exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Um Well, like let's talk about you don't have to pick a favorite, but like let's talk about one in particular so we can just like kind of so because I think too, like for me, uh uh I don't know what you your philosophy is on this, but for me it starts with characters. Like that's the like and you kind of just said that, right? So and I remember one of the first exercises we did was like you're like just choose somebody in your life or you know, and just write about them, like what they eat, just like what they eat, like how they talk, like what they look like, or whatever. And um, you know, and then drawing from that, like um, you know, you can you can start to build a character out of somebody. And then you start to think about, okay, what what kind of dilemma would this person run into, or like what, you know, how would they interact with others that would be funny or whatever. But um, you know, just taking something like fish out of water, like, you know, what how would you well what is that? Like what kind of sketch is that? We'll just take one one of example, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I I probably can't remember all the steps. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm gonna put you on this.
SPEAKER_03:But it's basically basically about taking a character um and putting them in an environment where they don't typically belong, or that's something that's going to, you know, kind of turn their world upside down.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I'm trying to think of Well, like uh one of our sketches, uh by the way, that uh we have one more weekend left. So this Saturday, December 14th, come on down to Reno Improv. Uh our last um sketch show, Heard Immun Herd Immunity is happening at eight o'clock PM. But um one of those sketches, I feel like it wouldn't you say Vince's sketch is a fish out of water.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, his is basically about a a couple, a young couple in college, a guy and a girl, and the girl is comes from a big Italian family, and um That sounds very Vince.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And the kid is kind of like a standard golf nerd, prep kind of guy. So it's like taking that sort of person from that his reality, which is probably you know, at one time he's like, I would like to play golf with you. So I'm I'm just assuming his backstory, this is a guy who maybe plays tennis, plays golf on the weekends, very Very proper, um, then gets brought into a f a family that's completely loud, rambunctious, and total chaotic, like something he's never experienced in his entire life.
SPEAKER_00:Particularly you think of Will Farrell when I think at a fish out of water. He's very much a fish out of water in a lot of his sketches.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I can't think of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you once you start like learning the patterns, um, you'll start seeing them and all sorts of things. I think like Splash is a classic fish out of water. That's like Tom Hanks, isn't that the splash?
SPEAKER_01:Like literally a fish out of water.
SPEAKER_00:Um we're gonna skip into just for time's sake, we're gonna skip into the concept of the day. Today's concept is creating a comedic character for sketched. Why let Katie take this away?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we we just um just kind of brushed uh on on how to you know that can be the sort of foundation of a sketch that you you write. But um, but we talked a lot about how um, you know, we did a particular segment or whatever class on creating a character, right? So you can get your notes out if you want. It's totes fine. Um so uh, you know, we we lear we talked a lot about things like point of view, which we talk about that in improv too. Because I mean part of this podcast too, for the it is about sketch, but I want to talk about kind of the overlap of sketch and improv too, because it is actually called for the love of improv. So, but I do there is a lot of overlap and and um and we we talked a a bit about that in the class itself because most people or all uh everybody who took that class basically has were all improvisers as well. So but but yeah, I mean just talking talking about, you know, uh what sharpens a character. I mean, yes, you can do a preliminary um exercise of like writing about your dad or something and creating a character after that, but then it's it's honing in on sort of the more um technical part of it and really fleshing out that character. So like we talk about like point of view, we talk about um, you know, how to exaggerate. Um can you expand?
SPEAKER_03:The four main qualities according to my phone and my note, et cetera. Um eventually what happens though, um, I think in comedy or any sort of art is all this stuff kind of fades away. Like this is all like kind of guideposts for people, like to help them. But it's like if you start I don't know, some people could read stuff like this and kind of learn the traits or whatever, and then just kind of go off and plug in the stuff kind of like math or like kind of like an equation. But yeah, for me, like I just always just trusted whatever and I always tell people trust your instincts. It's like just trust whatever, whatever you think is funny.
SPEAKER_01:I think it helps to for me, like like if something's not working in a sketch or whatever it may be, it's like then to go back to this and be like, oh wait, is it because the point of view is not clear enough, or is it because I need to exaggerate or raise the stakes, or like, you know. Yeah. That's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What's great about the difference there between improv and sketch is that you can you can say, hey, that didn't work and go back and rewrite it over and over and over again until it's perfect. Exactly. You just gotta kind of trust your instincts. So I'm sure kind of in the beginning of sketchwriting that's really important is to kind of just trust and then as you go, you can get feedback.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, and like in improv too though, like you're still thinking about things like point of view, you know. Like I know I always mention him almost every podcast. Like Rosowski was very much about that. Like, you know, it's actually he's basically like nothing else matters except for your point of view.
SPEAKER_03:That's the whole annoyance philosophy. Really? Um, yeah, their whole philosophy was take care of yourself and the scene will um follow. And if you make a strong choice, that is enough support to help your partner. So if you walk on a stage and you're just kind of this guy, that's really not giving anyone anything. Right. But you're this guy, or you know, if you're like if you do something like bold, if you make bold choices, it's like you're you becoming that character and taking the and having that strong point of view will give the person enough so then you don't have to think about all the other stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Then they have a kind of like Courtney said, like they can then they have a choice. They they have a reality that's set in front of them and they can either go with it or they can disagree with it. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I feel like with sketch, I mean, point of view serves like it helps you to guide guide writing the sketch. Do you know like right? Like if you just I feel like at some point too, um I don't know if you said I don't know where I saw this or what is I feel like but it was from your class where it's like, oh yeah, you get to a point where you're like, you just let the character start writing the sketch almost. I mean, I don't know. That's it.
SPEAKER_03:And even though that's kind of like that met or I don't know if that even is it's kind of a weird thing to say. I know, it's but it's like you really I mean that's that's not really what's happening.
SPEAKER_01:You are still writing.
SPEAKER_03:You're still writing it, but it but it but it is, I mean, the way that you explain it, it's I think it's um this guy is uh this fiction writer I like a lot, George Saunders. He talks a lot about writing short stories kind of the same way. And it's about like um it's kind of about and the same thing with improv, like a lot of these ideas blend within each other. Um it's about listening. So it's like you listen to the characters or you listen to the story. And what that means is you're not like letting them just write for you, but you're you're really listening to like uh why did you know what is this person doing? What do they want? What are they thinking without trying to get in its way? You're it's like you're really trying to just listen as closely as possible to whatever's on the page.
SPEAKER_01:And it's like it's hard to explain that concept, I feel like, but yeah, I know I like that because I mean we I mean we talk a lot about listening and improv. And I think that there's again like that's an overlap as well. Like obviously, like you're more literally listening on stage to what the person is doing, I mean, not just saying, but doing and their mannerisms and what the how they're reacting to you and all that stuff, so that you know you you can maybe help to move the scene along and everything like that. And then I mean it's really we're saying saying like pay attention to all the details.
SPEAKER_03:And I think it's saying that in every f art form, it's like pay attention to as much attention as you can and and take the pressure off of yourself. And I don't know, it's it's some like zen practice. It's like improv, writing. Um, like you guys were talking about yoga and like um uh meditation. Yeah. Or all like um that sounds like a lot of a lot of like Zen Buddhism stuff. It's like all of it is like, and the more older I get, the more I'm seeing these correlations from it all. And the the more you could get to that point with all of it, I think the better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And like just I think that idea of like getting, I mean, we taught like in Rosalsky again, we talked a lot about like getting out of the way of yourself and like the difference between the actor and the person, or I forget he uses a different term, but you know, it's like instead he's like, I mean, the way he puts it is like, don't bring your bullshit. Yeah. Like he's very like really, yeah. And it's just like, don't don't bring your shit. You're an actor, like you're a character. Like let let yourself be that character and don't let your BS like don't get don't get actually annoyed by somebody you know, like don't bring that onto the stage.
SPEAKER_00:I think it all kind of boils down to exactly what you're saying with the Zen is getting to that place where you're really listening, because you cannot be lit truly listening and not present. You can't be in your head and also truly listening. Like you if you're if you're listening, you're in the moment and you're paying attention and you're taking it in and processing it. Um if you're in your head or somewhere else, so like you're you're not actually listening. Right. Um you kind of need to do a check on yourself.
SPEAKER_03:And I think it's so hard to do because your life in your life, you're it's like you never live in the moment.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_03:It's like you're thinking about the past, you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about this or that, or what I have to do, Aaron. So then it's like that's why it's improv, or it's like you get the opportunity. That's why I think it's so like maybe that I stuck around with it, because it is kind of therapeutic. I know that another, I think Courtney was talking about that.
SPEAKER_01:We always come like I feel like we always circle back to that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But it's I also think it's not therapeutic, but it's also like, oh, it's putting you in your natural state of moment-to-moment press like being. It's like Alan Watts is like another guy I listened to a lot. Like he talks a lot about that. It's like just being like, but I think it's like to get your brain to even be in the moment. It's yeah, you don't even know how to be in the moment as a human anymore because we're so messed up with society.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. I was just gonna say, it's all society's fault. Like fucking society, man. Your fault, society. Yes, damn you society. But I mean, it's true because it's like we're especially now with technology and all that stuff. Like we're always like on our I mean, that's like we're always somewhere else, like physically now. We're physically somewhere else, you know, because we're on our phones or like we're thinking about tomorrow. Um, but yeah, and and it's I don't know. I think that's what's so awesome about improv or com I don't know, comic. Improv feels like it really gets to that pure place sometimes though. Yeah. Is that you when you have a moment where you're actually, I don't know about you guys, but when you're actually in the moment, yeah, it is the most wonderful feeling. And you get off your stage off stage and you're like, oh my god, I got a break from my brain, first of all. And second of all, I just feel so relaxed. Yeah, it's crazy. Which is weird because you know, usually when you're on stage, you're like, I gotta perform, you know, and it's just like I don't know. It's a great one.
SPEAKER_00:Well, let's talk about like that in particular, because I know we feel that a lot when we're doing improv, but do you, you know, from someone who's done sketch, like do you feel that in sketch?
SPEAKER_03:Well I think, yeah, I was just gonna say, I think with sketch maybe what it is is you're capturing you're capturing that on paper, maybe. Maybe the same thing with writing a story. It's like you're trying to you're trying to reach out into the far cosmo with, you know, like as hippy dippy as that sounds, but you know, yeah. It's like you're trying to reach out and then solely pull this like you know, this sacred knowledge, or create this piece of art and um get it on paper as as best as you possibly can. And when you have it and you do it right, those sketches, you know, like they just flow. Like, yeah, like they flow, they have power, they're kind of like moving on the page. It's like there's an energy to them. Um so it's like trying to pull that out and capture that. So I think maybe that's what you're trying to do with sketch and writing in predic in particular, just trying to shut up, I mean, your own mind, trying to stop be as clever as you think you are, and just try to listen. Like some writers say like they feel like they get dictation. And I'm and I don't I never got to that state, but I'm like, maybe that's a state that they've just been able to tap into from writing for however long, or what do they mean by dictation? Where it's like they're literally just at the keyboard and they're hearing the words come to them and it's they're just typing it out and they're just kind of it's like the character is speaking to them or something like that. It's like if somebody was just talking to you in your head and you're just typing that out.
SPEAKER_01:It's like the idea that the character is writing the sketch for you because you're putting yourself in the character's shoes instead of your own. It's like the thing with improv where it's like you're putting yourself aside and just imagining, and it's it does sound like you talk about it and it sounds like hippie-dippy and like, oh yeah, it's totally cool and like whatever, and like, you know, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But it's I don't mean to sound like take this sketch class. I know.
SPEAKER_03:But really quick though, to get back on the con if you do want to look, like I think like Katie was saying, if you want to like I think it's good to try it, and then if you're like, oh I can't really this character is not working, or I'm having trouble figuring out how this person is to go back and figure out who they are, you could from these notes that I have, you could do uh comic perspective is um one thing. It's like, does your character like ask questions? Like you write a character, it's like oh they're not working, they don't seem funny enough. The one thing you say is like, does this character have a strong comic perspective? And that's basically their like unique, quirky way of like viewing the world. Like, how do they view it that's different than a typical person who's not funny? Um and you could think of that as like, are they playful? Do they have a cynicism cynicism to them? Are they arrogant? And the stronger you can make that and um exaggerate that, the funnier the character will be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like go ahead. That actually makes me think of SNL where they often do like the the um like game show, and they have like all these different characters, and they'll ask one question and then you'll go down the line and see how these different characters from their perspective think of it differently.
SPEAKER_01:Totally, that's a great example. Yes, totally that and that's that format that's that sketch, that Jeopardy format has been around forever on SNL, right? Um and that reminded me too, like when when we did that first exercise of like writing about a character, of course. I did choose my dad, it's true. And one of my dad's one of the comic perspectives that I kind of pulled from him was that like he loves to tell, we were talking about this. If no, I was talking about never mind. Um, but he loves to, you know, tell you the history of everything. So I think I had him like eating pea soup or something, and then he was like, and then I'd be like, Oh, what are you eating, dad? And he's like, I'm eating pea soup. And did you know? Do you want to know the history of pea soup? You know, and it's like, so that's like just an example too of like what a comic perspective. So that's something that does come from an actual real person, but then how can you heighten that? Like, of course, he doesn't actually tell me the history of pea soup, although I'm sure he probably. Anyways, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But that's that's yeah, that's one, and then you have exaggeration, obviously. Um that takes comic perspective and pushes and stretches it and accelerates it until it's um you know funny. And you want to be bold with the exaggeration um and all that sort of stuff. Uh sorry. I feel like too that that like um like be you want to be like if you're it's like alright, my character, like for that, it's like uh head here and neurotic. So it's like if he's neurotic, he's like, oh you know, like kind of like a Woody Allen. Like if you watch it like Annie Hall or whatever else, he's a pretty big neurotic. Like so you want to make it the biggest neurotic you could be, like really make them, you know, s far out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and I think that too, like just as like a beginner, either in improv improv or sketch or comedy, just in general, like you know, that exaggeration. I just feel like sometimes it's like, oh yeah, I'm exaggerating, and then it's like, but can you take it farther? Like I always remember feeling like, oh I'm exaggerating it, but it's like, but you're not going as far as you could, you know, like so. I feel like I stretched that muscle in your class for sure. Like Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um let's jump into a game.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Yeah, it's the game today. Today's okay, so um it's called Bullshit. Um, and it really is a game, and we did this, I think, with Aurora's um episode on episode five. I mean, it's similar, but you know, we talk a lot about heightening um in both improv and um sketch. And um, you know, and with sketch too, I feel like um we talk about it in a way of like raising the stakes. We talk a lot about raising the stakes and kind of really squeezing that character because that's that's where it's gonna make it even funnier, you know. I mean what what would you how would you define raising the stakes?
SPEAKER_03:Do you think you want to like wh what do they have to lose or gain is basically what stakes are. And it's like, for instance, um I thought of it's like if the couple is out to eat, it's like they're just out to eat.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_03:It's like nothing really there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh a couple who's not married is out to eat or who got divorced recently is out to eat. That's a little more interesting. Right. A couple who's um out to eat, who's divorced, and they're divorced because their child was killed in a car accident.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's pretty high stakes, like meeting, and it's like just ra just it's like how can I push it even more to make the drama higher, to make it more intense, to make it more um explosive and funny when it does, when the you know the comedy does come.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So it's just like how can I, you know, yeah, make those situations up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's to me, that's like a form of heightening as well, right? Like in writing form. Um so, anyways, it's just a simple game. It's kind of like the game we played with Aurora, which was like good, bad, ugly advice. But this is just it it's called bullshit because um and I've never played this, so we'll see I hang out. But basically you start with like just a regular, like a simple statement, and then um the next person kind of takes it to another exaggerated level, and then um the next and then you kind of like just keep trying to heighten it until it sounds so ridiculous, and then somebody can be like, it's bullshit. Like nobody would believe that.
SPEAKER_00:So you just kind of keep going around the circle until you call bullshit? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. We'll see how it goes. It might be whatever. Okay, here we go. Shall I start or does somebody else want to start?
SPEAKER_03:So you just say a simple statement?
SPEAKER_01:So you still yeah, you say a stipple simple state statement. Um Do you have one?
SPEAKER_03:Um The clown laughed.
SPEAKER_01:Um The clown laughed at the child.
SPEAKER_00:The clown laughed at the crying child.
SPEAKER_03:The clown laughed at the crying sick child.
SPEAKER_01:The clown laughed at the crying sick son. His crying sick son.
SPEAKER_00:The the clown laughed at his crying sick son as he sneezed in his the clown's face.
SPEAKER_03:The clown laughed. The clown laughed at his crying sick son when he s sneeze in his face and um It's getting harder. I don't know. It's it's hard to remember it. Um the clown laughed at his crying sick son who sneeze in his face and then robbed the bank.
SPEAKER_01:Bullshit. All right, yeah. I don't even know if we played that correctly.
SPEAKER_00:I mean it is kind of like each time you're adding a little more information. So like the the clown laughed is like a general statement. No, it's just not really interesting. Oh, you're lack laughing at a sick kid? Like, okay, this is like a dick clown. Um, you know, and and it keeps going. Oh, like he why is he laughing when he just got sneezed at in the face by a sick kid? Like, what's going on? It may it makes you ask more questions about well, what is going on in the scene that we don't know about that this clown, like what's wrong with the clown? What's the clown's beg some questions?
SPEAKER_03:It's a good way, yeah. I could see that being a good way of heightening just like how far can you heighten it before like just a saying until it sounds like a good way, like if you have a character that you're trying to figure out how to put in a like a more uh higher stake situation. Let's try one more. Let me get me, I'll take a better one. Um I'll just say like uh Mary was nice. Let's try like a real character instead of a clown.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Um Mary Um Hang on Mary gave all her money to her best friend because she was so nice.
SPEAKER_00:Mary gave all her money to her best friends because she was so nice but she didn't have any money left and lived on the street.
SPEAKER_03:Mary gave all her money to her best friend because she was so nice and she lived on the street and started selling um her blood. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um Mary, I'm not calling bullshit on Mary.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So Mary was really nice. She gave all her money to her best friend and she lived on the streets and gave uh sold her blood. Um and then um she uh shaved her head and gave her hair to cancer patients.
SPEAKER_03:Bullshit, she's not that nice. No. Um but I see how that could come up, I mean, at least from creating a story or creating some, even it helps create something for Mary.
SPEAKER_00:Like well, and then and then like you start to have feelings for Mary. Well, like, why is Mary so nice that she's giving away everything? There's something mm mentally wrong with Mary that she's gonna be.
SPEAKER_01:And that's that actually like one of the things that we talked about in class about character and about this concept of the day, which is creating a comedic character, was also about like what are their wants and desires. So it's like it's like, okay, Mary's so nice, and then you're like, Why is she so nice? What's behind that? Why does she want to be nice? Why is that necessary for that character? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What what in her past do we not know about that?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And then she kind of becomes more fleshed out that way, I guess. And then, you know, that's that's the whole idea too, I think, is like you you get this character from like, okay, you can start with one line. Mary's m Mary was nice.
SPEAKER_03:Aaron Powell And that's also a flaw, too. Like that's another thing. Character flaws. It's a flaw that's a positive flaw. Because there's positive and negative flaws. Like a negative you know, negative flaw if she was maybe mean. But she's so her flaw is that she's so nice that it's detrimental. It's causing her to, you know, live this life of no no house. On the streets and she's giving blood and shaking her head and eliminating it.
SPEAKER_00:At the very end, there's like some kind of ulterior motive that we don't know about. Like she's trying to get in heaven, but in the end, she doesn't get into heaven because God thinks she's so annoying because she's too nice.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, I mean, and that could be so then there's there's the beginning of a sketch, right? Okay, so now we're and now it takes place at the gates of heaven, right? I mean, you know, and now now one of the characters is God or whatever, and you know, and Mary can have but God, I was so nice, and then God can be kind of an asshole and be like, Well, you were too nice. So you can't come in, I mean that's hilarious, right there, right? Because it's like, well, the expectation is that, you know, if you're good and you're nice, you get into heaven. Well, apparently not.
SPEAKER_03:And to like a point of view of the sketch, like not all it's like not and we say like a point of view of the sketch, like what is a sketch's overall point of view? It could be like not all nice people get into heaven, or if you try too hard in life, you may not get what you want. Maybe something like that. You could have some like deeper meaning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's we would we didn't really talk, I mean, we talked about the point of view of the character, but we talk a lot about the point of view, and and actually really it is necessary to have a your sketch has to have a point of view. And and we do um we do talk about like um we do talk about political sketches, and I mean that those kind of lend themselves a little more to that, but even if they're not political, it's like what is what are you trying to say? You know, what are you trying to say in this whole sketch? Like what is the message, you know?
SPEAKER_03:And every page should should be informed. Yeah, shouldn't be informed by that point of view. So like at Second City, they'd say like write the point of view point of view on the top of each page of your sketch and make sure sure that each page is serving that point of view. So all the dialogue, all the characters, it's all kind of going into that sort of thing, which will then make it stronger and um it just will just make it, you know, have a thing of its own.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. And in improv, I I do kind of find myself sometimes abandoning my point of view because somebody like came out with some me with something that surprised me. And I'm like, oh, like now I kind of have to fit that. But like if you're like no, I'm st no matter what, I'm sticking to my point of view, that could be where the hilarity actually comes in. Yeah. It's like most people would kind of not stick to their point of view after hearing that, but then you know, she does, and that kind of heightens it and exaggerates.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, and that's the thing too, like um what I you know, because um, you know, Jason touched on the fact that, you know, he's kind of starts the class off with um, you know, people kind of owning right their own experience as as where of of of a source of comedy, right? And then part of that too is that because you know, the bulk of the class is us writing sketches and then the whole class is reading the sketches and then commenting on them. Um and so being able to hear that feedback and also being able to give it in a good way. Yeah. Um but um where was I going with that? I don't know. I just wanted to bring that up because because I think that that is so oh, because I know why. Because um it's so important to the writing process. I feel like it was so uh, you know, I learned so much from doing that. And um I think the the one of the questions that we would constantly come back to is, well, what is the point of view? If there was something not working in the sketch, it we would come back to that question and say, well, maybe because you're not you've gotten away from the point of view or it's not clear anymore, or like so it was just all in those discussions with with other people in the class that I found so valuable. And I never really have been in a class like that where it's like a workshop style? Yeah, like a workshop style class. And and um, you know, you really have to set that up carefully because it's pr writing is so personal and you don't want to s you don't it can't be a thing where people feel criticized.
SPEAKER_03:The trick is uh or my trick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what's the trick, Jason?
SPEAKER_03:The trick is uh you just start the class by like say it's the first day of workshop after you guys wrote your first sketch. Um after they read it, um, ask what if what did you observe? That's and it's like just just tell me, just tell me what you observed, how many characters are in the sketch, um, where's the sketch set?
SPEAKER_01:Um it neutralizes it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and it and and it's also it neutralizes it, it also just gets people pointing out what they're observing as well as gets people talking about it. And once you got and once they start talking, they just kind of go. Yeah. Um because it's like if you ask us like a hard question, it's like, all right, well, what's the point of view of that? It's it's a very loaded thing to ask for and it's it's um intimidating to the students, as well as um just uh it it could be I someone could say, you know, it could just lead into an argument over what it actually is rather than just saying what's there on the page.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the other technique you use is that, you know, while we're talking, so say if it's my sketch that we're talking about, we've just read, so I as the author am kind of silenced while everybody else talks about it. And so if they have a question like what is the point of view, instead of uh directing it to me, which feels more kind of attacking and aggressive, it's like, oh, it's more of like, I wonder, I'm kind of wondering what the point of view is here. I'm not sure if it's clear, and so then it just becomes kind of like somehow it it just diffuses it. It doesn't, it feels like, oh, they're just that's brought up a question. It's just this third person thing. And then after the discussion, then as the author, you can kind of be like, oh yeah, well, this is where I was thinking, but yeah, okay, I can see where that's unclear or whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, asking questions like that is huge. I mean, we did that. Um I had a teacher, Kim Barnes, in Idaho, when I was going to grad school and everything. She's like, if you don't don't like, you know, if if you have a question, just or if you have uh like a negative thing, like so say a character's acting um unbelievable and it's like I don't believe instead of saying like I don't believe this character, just frame it, be like, why why do you have your character doing this? They seem like it seems kind of odd. Like you just framing framing it in a question, just another way to alleviate like the pain of take getting the note as the writer as well as um making it seem kind of you know right.
SPEAKER_00:I might take that a step farther and sometimes like when people are asking you why why did you do this? Like that can even sound a little like I would almost say like like you said in the beginning, like, hey, can you explain what you were thinking when this happens? And then like and then can we break it apart? Um and then you know, that kind of helps them kind of see where it's not working. You're discussing how it's coming together and the pieces rather than the value of the whole. For sure, definitely. Yep. Um anyway, let's we got we're running out of time. We got about ten plus minutes left. Um, so let's do a little history. Okay. This was my homework today. Um, and I thought we would just do kind of like a brief history of um about sketch, and I kind of want to talk, you know, um about kind of how stuff came to life and how it kind of became really popular starting in in the two thousands, it kind of like blossomed. But it kind of got its start, you know, back in the sixties when there were several s kind of sketch shows, the late night shows became really popular. Um and then in the nineties it almost became there there started to be kind of more of these like groups that would form, like doing like rap stuff and uh and you would see these like nineties groups and that was really popular. So what you saw in the nineties was um well, SNL kind of started more in the 70s, but um in the nineties you saw stuff like In Living Color come out and um Kids in the Hall and stuff like that. And so it kind of got popularized there. And then of course SNL kind of always wins.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's like you have all these kind of yeah, SNL's kind of the constant. And then you have all these ones coming in kind of fading out.
SPEAKER_03:You have the um in living color number. Yeah, I remember unless eighties, but was it eighties?
SPEAKER_01:Ma oh mad uh mad TV.
SPEAKER_03:There is one called The State.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I don't remember that one. The state, yeah, that came up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and then they were kind of saying, you know, like in the two thousands. Mr.
SPEAKER_03:Show. Oh my god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um in the 2000s when the internet hit, all of a sudden these five minute videos became popular and people would just like binge watch YouTube. Do you remember that when YouTube first came out? And just like going over to your friend's house and just like binge watching these five minute things. Well, essentially what that is is sketch it. Like all those funny videos are sketches. So they're basically lots of smaller groups started forming around Sketch in different cities to make these YouTube videos, and that's where you start seeing people teaming up, like Key and Peel doing their own show or the Portlandia kind of well, Portlandia kind of started from SNL, but but those kind people started teaming up and doing internet videos, and then those internet videos would turn into shows or Comedy Essential would come in and pick up stuff.
SPEAKER_03:That's how um what's it called? Uh Broad City started, I think. Oh, really? I think it's a good idea.
SPEAKER_01:Were they like a web series or I think so?
SPEAKER_03:I thought it was a YouTube web series that show that started.
SPEAKER_01:It's hilarious. Did you ever do any YouTube dabbling?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I have a few videos out there from Chicago.
SPEAKER_00:Um Jason Silver's YouTube channel.
SPEAKER_03:We I used to do like short um movies. Like I did one about a suit that was eating my body and uh I was like obsessed with it, and that was like eating my body away.
SPEAKER_00:I have to see this.
SPEAKER_03:I did one about a kid who was my friend Kevin and Christina. Um Christina had a kid and Kevin was like deathly afraid of it to where and we did a like a horror movie style, whereas like the kid was like this thing that he was like the worst thing to see for a single guy to meet his girlfriend's kid. Um then I did one of like a house of cards where this loser guy has like all these cards show up and his greeting cards show up to his house and becomes friends with them, and then he has to get a roommate, and then I'm like destroying the cards out of us.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03:So like we're weird stuff like that. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god. Does that stuff still exist?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's all on YouTube, yeah. I'll l I'll send you guys some links if you guys want some of them.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah, I'm totally looking for that. Um I don't know how relevant this is, but I had a little quote here. It's uh it's from um Paste magazine. They did a um an article on the strange persistence of s uh sketch comedy. And they uh said there for some reason comedy seems to evolve faster than any other genre. Um he said, I think it's similar to fashion. People see something and then they emulate it. Then someone else sees that and em emulates that. The web has amped up this feedback loop considerably now that so many uh future sterns and Pasternax have entire catalogs of classic sketch, Money Pass Python, Kids in the Hall, Mr. Show at their fingertips. So it's kind of I think they're kind of what they're saying here is it's kind of the sketch almost became the snowball effect, you know, of people like, oh my god, like there's something to this and it's fun, and and and then more and more people as the internet goes, it just like starts blowing up to where like kind of sketches really what people want to do because it's interactive and totally yeah, and um my teacher, so when I um like my first class I was had this teacher Nancy Beckett, and I just be I was like, I'm gonna be friends with that person.
SPEAKER_03:Like I just said that just because I was like, she's cool, she's interesting, she's weird. Um, and I was like interested in those sort of people, so I was just like kind of uh forced myself to become friends with her. Um and I'm still friends with her now. I'm going back to Chicago next week, I'll go see her and hang out with her. But I was writing, um, she was helping me write the curriculum from like that I did it over here because I was like asking her questions about some of the sketches, and I would just have these phone conversations with her and take a bunch of notes and then put it into the thing, call her back again, bit go over this, and then blah blah blah. But anyways, yeah, like um you were saying, Jess, it's like um and she said, Yeah, there's something to writing sketch and learning the form. She's like, even like a lot of the big writers, they've all kind of started in like that. And I think starting in sketch, learning about character, learning how to m you know, just to do a story in like five pages allows you to then even go in to write books or like Tina Faye, like writing movies or writing TV shows.
SPEAKER_01:So it's like it's a good form to start if you're interested in writing and um to be creative with and collaborate with and kind of learn a lot of the basics of storytelling to go on and yeah, and uh you know, I think this is a good uh spot because we really uh we kind of have mentioned indirectly the class, but um you know, it's the the amazing thing about this class is that you know it's a year-long commitment, so it went in four sessions basically, right? And the first two sessions you're learning about all the different types of sketch and you're writing them and you're critiquing them and whatever, and then um as we uh entered into the third stage, we had to choose a sketch and then rewrite it and rewrite it again and rewrite it again times a million. Um which we don't have time to talk about the rewriting, but that is a huge that's also I would think also a great introduction to other writing forms because you know, if you're writing a short story or a novel or whatever it is, you really want to hone in and really be, you know, getting it down to as good as possible at the end, right?
SPEAKER_03:And yeah, I always tell the story of I was at I.O. taking a TV writing class from this guy named Michael McCarthy, and um somebody raised their hand and for a question, and he's like, Yeah. And um she's like, I don't like to She's like, What if you're one of those writers who just likes to write the first draft and that's it? He's like, What advice do you have? And he's like, uh, quit.
SPEAKER_01:So that's not part of the thing.
SPEAKER_03:So like that's that's what I always say with like rewriting. It's like ever and it's old, everyone said it, right writing is rewriting. It's like the first draft is just like let's get it out as quickly as possible, then it's like see what you have on the page, and then start using your craft of you know, the five-point structure or what you know going back to your like your character work is are the characters comedic enough and like going at it that way.
SPEAKER_01:And just really fine-tuning anything, everything towards the end. And then so then from there, we got to uh once you we rewrote and had our sketch, we um we were ready to put on a show. Well, not ready, but we were we cast the show, we had auditions, and then we each got to direct our own sketch. So it was really cool because it's not just a writing class, you get to experience the entire thing, and we put on a sketch show, which is called Hurt Immunity, by the way. Um, and then we went into rehearsals, we got to direct, we got, you know, um, well, co-direct because really Jason is the director, and you know, we got each got to do our own our own help direct our own sketch, and um, and then you see the show happen, and it's such a gratifying experience because it's like here's this labor of love that you've tweaked and tweaked and you've done all this work on, and and you get to see, you know, the final product. It's it's it's like an amazing experience. So I highly recommend. We there is gonna be another sketch class. I don't know if the details have been worked out yet.
SPEAKER_03:But it starts, yeah, it starts in January. So I want to do it where there's a year-long program, then I want to start offering levels one and level two independently as well. So if there's people out there who want to just kind of learn the basics of it, they could take the first and second class and they'll learn all the sketch patterns, they'll ha and then they could go, they can make their own sketches on I mean, a lot of people do it on YouTube, kind of like we were talking about now. Um so it's like I want to start offering those two independently as well as have the program. So because the program is more of just like you not only learn the sketch, but you also, like Katie was saying, you learn rewriting, and then you also learn the production side. Because it's like you and everybody else should be able to go put up your own show if you really wanted to. Like all you guys have more than enough sketches to get together and be like, hey, you guys want to I mean, uh that's something that you could even prop possibly pitch to Ben. Because I know Ben wants to do more sketch.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we will we've only had uh three sold-out shows at Reno Improv. And by the way, this is all happening at Reno Improv, the show, the class. Um Jason also um teaches level two improv.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, two and three. I've taught two and three. Only one level three, but mostly two, yeah. Okay, mostly two, just two person scenes.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, and that's at Reno Improv too. And then he also coaches uh sensitive people, which is a team that performs at Reno Improv regularly as well.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Um on that note, I think we're gonna start wrapping it up. So final question of the day. Did you come up with one?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I had a serious one.
SPEAKER_01:Does it have to be a silly one? Because I had a serious one that we didn't get to. But I don't know if we have time. Sure, whatever. Well, I was just gonna ask, this is something I asked. Um uh for those dreamers out there that want to make it big in Hollywood, like how like can you just send your sketch to Hollywood? Like, can you just like say yeah, like can you just be like address it to like SNL? Um I think although that's in not in Hollywood, that's in New York, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of people know I know I know that YouTube's a big platform. Oh yeah. I know a lot of people, you know, like I said, like Broad City, I think. Um there's that other show on HBO. Um, God, what's it called? It's about the guy who's selling the weed, not crashing.
SPEAKER_01:Um I think that started as a YouTube thing.
SPEAKER_03:Um Kyle. Really?
SPEAKER_01:That's such a good it's so funny. I know it's so quirky.
SPEAKER_03:Kyle Mooney and Beck Bennett from SNL started with Good Neighbor on YouTube. I don't know if you guys ever seen that. Um it's a super funny little sketch thing that they would do when they were younger and living in California, and that got them at an SNL. So it's like there's really no one way to do it. Um as far and then yeah, I don't know exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think it's literally just doing it. Like I think the hardest part for most people is just getting off your butt and going and organizing something and getting it all together and saying, hey, we're doing this now. You either come or you don't, but I'm doing it either way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think the most important thing is doing what you think is cool and fun and uh trying to get it out there so people could see it.
SPEAKER_01:What sketch shows that are out there right now, because I know you've I've actually want to know this myself because you've told me a million times and I'm like, what did he say again? What sketch shows like are on Netflix right now that you watch?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I just watched that Tim Robinson one. He was around when I was um I can't we can't what I can't think of its name. Um off the link. I haven't watched that.
SPEAKER_00:I'll find it and put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. The Tim Robinson one, he was from Second City and he was around performing when I was um out there, so I've seen a bunch of times. I thought that was really funny and weird and irreverent. Um but I haven't really I don't really watch a lot of what about the Rob and no, is it Rob?
SPEAKER_01:You know the guy from like Breaking Bad, uh the Better Call Saul guy? And he does a sketch show with some other dude.
SPEAKER_03:Um what's his name? Um why can't I think of that?
SPEAKER_01:That guy.
SPEAKER_03:He's uh he's from Mr. Show, him and uh fuck, why can't I think of their names? I know like I'm a big fan of both of them.
SPEAKER_01:It's Friday, the 13th.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he's with um Bob Owen and Kirk and um Dave.
SPEAKER_01:Um Yeah, Bob and Dave, or is it Dave.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Bob and Why I shouldn't know his name. Yeah, it's like that just completely Have you watched that one? Uh David Cross, there it is. Um I haven't won uh did I watch the new one? I've seen all the old ones. Oh, you have? Okay. Yeah, I rented them on Blockbuster DVD years ago.
SPEAKER_01:Blockbuster?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I used to have Blockbuster DVD.
SPEAKER_00:Um That was back in the day. All right, so if people um want to find Jason Sarna, if they want to be a part of what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01:Do you want people to sign find Jason Sarna?
SPEAKER_03:I don't really do. I deleted my Facebook a few years ago. That's why I asked, because I knew that was kind of like I don't really I'm not really active on social media. I've kind of got away from it. Um I don't really have So Reno Improv, they can find you there. Yeah, they could find me there and uh level two or at Sketch.
SPEAKER_00:You can find him on For the Love of Improv right here. That's right. Um or I will also link your class, um, your upcoming class in the show.
SPEAKER_03:And level one will be taught by Lisa Sherritz this time. She's was a student and she she wrote for Mystery Science Theater 3000. Um she taught at the Iowa Writers Workshop, I believe. She was at Stanford, she's a Stugner Fellow, so a big fiction writer as well. Like I have a master's degree in fiction writing.
SPEAKER_01:And she's also on your sensitive people team.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. So she'll be teaching level one and then I'll be teaching the rest of them. Um so uh yeah, I'm typically around there most most of the time.
SPEAKER_00:So awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. Yeah. Thanks for coming on our show.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, thanks for having us. I'd like to say like you guys are doing a great job. I listened to all the episodes and I was very impressed. And uh like seriously I'm not just saying that. You guys really stick to you keep it interesting, you keep it moving, you let the guests talk. You guys have interesting things to say. I mean, way more interesting things than I could have said at improv. Like even after three years of doing it, I'm like, I don't know what this is. I was such a stupid person.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we're all hardest on ourselves. And no, but thank you for saying that because we this is this is the first time we've done a podcast, and we're very self-conscious about if we're doing a good job or not.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, go back and listen to the other episodes and tell us what you think. And every episode seems to get better and better, and we're excited about what's going on. Um, you can also go to our website at ForTheLove of Improv um to give us suggestions of what you want for future podcasts and to uh write comments of questions to ask the upcoming guests who are you guys gonna have next.
SPEAKER_01:You're putting us on the spot. So we had Steven in the queue. Yeah. Steven, who is a fellow player. I mean, who's he would be coming from sort of from our perspective of like more of a beginner guy, but he's a great improviser and well and then also like uh this is the first season, and uh we're gonna end this at at episode 10.
SPEAKER_00:We're gonna start season two, and we're talking about kind of branching out in season two and going toward um you know doing some more workshops, maybe some remote podcasts. So we're really excited.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you guys got the um official podcast and Reno.
SPEAKER_00:I know so far as I know of.
SPEAKER_03:Everyone will be coming to you soon.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That's right. Coming soon. Stay tuned and thank you for listening to For the Love of In Pro. Yeah, peace out.
