The Peter D'Agnes Podcast
I will speak about topics such as spirituality, ascension, meditation, kundalini, astral travel, psychology, internal development and many more things.
The Peter D'Agnes Podcast
Love is Not Enough for a Successful Relationship with Erin Grace
Have you ever wondered how admiration and respect can transform your relationships? Join me as I welcome Erin Grace, an oracle, energy therapist and light language healer, who shares her profound insights on cultivating thriving partnerships. Erin delves into the essential roles of respect, admiration, and effective communication in relationships while also shedding light on the spiritual challenges men face and the initiation of the divine masculine. Learn about the importance of mutual growth and the lack of support for men in spiritual communities, as Erin draws from her wealth of experience working with clients.
Our conversation evolves to explore the dynamics of communication between men and women. Discover how women can create safe, nurturing spaces for men to express their vulnerabilities, breaking generational patterns of emotional suppression. Erin and I discuss the broader implications of traditional masculinity on men's emotional health and emphasize the nurturing power of women in fostering emotional safety. We also address the complexities of modern dating, the impact of dating apps, and the significance of understanding personal needs, setting boundaries, and knowing one's love language.
In the latter part of our discussion, we tackle the intricacies of attachment styles and how subconscious patterns from our upbringing influence our relationships. Erin provides insights into overcoming people-pleasing tendencies and healing past pain through self-acknowledgment. We'll explore the journey toward developing healthy, secure connections and the importance of mutual understanding of gender differences. Dive into real-life pain and betrayal experiences, the necessity of self-reflection, and the transformative power of clear communication. Tune in to discover how to build trust and overcome defensiveness, fostering healthier relationships.
Erin Grace is an international light language healer, guide and mentor. She currently works with clients from all over the world which has allowed her to live the laptop lifestyle that she always dreamed of. She currently lives in Quebec, Canada.
You can find Erin on Instagram at: @eringraceislove
Peter's Instagram is @peterdagnes
My E-Book Breaking Generational Curses in your Bloodline is available here : https://stan.store/pdagnes33/p/guide-to-breaking-generational-curses-ebook
My Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/@peterdagnes
Tiktok: @rawawakening
#healing #dating #relationship #lovelanguage
So when I say love isn't enough, it means that we need to have respect, admiration there's the value piece as well. To absolutely appreciate and admire someone is different than love. So I was married for 10 years and I used to say to my ex-husband my husband back then I used to say you love me but you don't like me. And it was true. You know we didn't spend time together. You know there was no time spent trying to hang out, and so admiration is different than love. When you admire somebody, it's like you almost want to be your best self to kind of meet them at their level. It makes you show up every day, wanting, desiring to be at that level. When you do A, b and C, I feel really disrespected and you need to speak that Okay, that's the hardest thing to do. We are expanding and if we're not growing together, you're going to be growing apart from your partner. And it requires work, it requires communication communication.
Speaker 2:Okay, so welcome on Erin Grace to the podcast. Erin is a oracle energy therapist and light language healer. She's someone who I've followed online for a while now a few years and I really appreciate her input, her contributions, just the things she shares I find very insightful and it's always been very and when I watch her stuff it's been very in tune with what I feel. Recently we got into a discussion about um, just the sort of rough times of the world, and that I had had a rough year and all this stuff and how the divine masculine was masculine, was going through an initiation recently, and then we got to talking about relationships. So, uh, we wanted to come on and have a conversation. So welcome on Erin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you, peter. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's definitely a really important topic to bring up something that the collective I think many of us are going through situations, specifically masculines. This year, they're really getting getting initiated and those initiations can be challenging, right, but they're also transformative. So it's really important to recognize that you guys are really going through it. But so to give yourself a lot of like I'm going to say grace on that because you're a lot of you are going through these times, but it is because you guys are going through massive awakenings and it's leading you guys into becoming stronger, um, stepping into that divine masculine role, um, your templates are coming online, if I were to talk energetically, but this is it. So you're not alone and that's why it's important to bring this up and have a conversation about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I definitely appreciate it from a woman's perspective because it can feel like men are just underrepresented or not really present in this spiritual community, these type of things, and like we as men don't even have a vocabulary for these types of things. You know, in terms of like we were talking about connection and relationships and how can a woman make a man feel supported and these types of things. And, yeah, blockages, um, that get the way. But maybe you could speak to a little bit of what you've seen I know you work with a lot of clients on a regular basis and what you've seen working with the men and women with those struggles and relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. So. I want to point out that women have the last four years since about like I mean I know that everyone's on an individual journey, but I'm going to speak collectively the last four years women have really gone through a lot of awakening as well, which is where you see women in the spiritual communities kind of dominating a lot of feminine energy. Also, there's a lot of support group for women, a lot of feminine energy. Also there's a lot of support group for women. There's a lot of healing for the like you know, healing the womb. Women's groups, women's circles, and what we're not seeing a lot of are men's circles. What we're not seeing a lot of is support for men, and so what I'm seeing in my clients is that a lot of men are ready to heal but there isn't a lot of information out there and there's not a lot of support for them, and so they do feel really alone and so they're processing alone with quite a few. Like a lot of men are showing up to do one-on-ones with me, and that's because they feel comfortable in that, and I do know that I hold really good space for them to be seen and heard and me as a woman holding a feminine energy, creating a safe space for men to be seen and heard. It's actually what's being asked of for the rest of the feminines out there. So the women who have been waking up for the past four years and here they are. Like you know, a lot of them are getting nurtured in women's groups, women's retreats, lots of women-focused groups out there, and what I really want to bring up is that a lot of women can show up now and create safe spaces for men whether you are in a partnership with a man or like a romantic relationship, I mean, or whether it is your friend or your brother or even your father to create that safe space for all men to feel safe enough to actually start to speak.
Speaker 1:You know, this is generational. A lot of men who are from an older generation, they had fathers who just don't talk, and that's the way it was. You know even my own father. His way of dealing with things is just walk away, come back when the problems cool down and then pretend nothing happened. And you know. And then we see this in.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm sure there's women out there who can relate to their partners acting in the same way, but it's because they do not feel safe enough to let down that shield and because women are in this very confronting energy towards men right now, calling them out for a lot of negative behavior, calling them out on behavior that's really not even their fault, because it's traumatic, it's based in trauma, it just kind of compounds that lack of safety and then you know they shut down and they're not able to speak about it. So that's really what I'm seeing with my clients is men showing up to, to speak to me directly because I have that safety. But I'm just going to also put it out there that do men really feel safe in groups of other men? You know, do we really have that Like, like even?
Speaker 1:You know, when we think about testosterone and masculinity, it's very action oriented and single, focused and individual. You know like and and. So you know I'm kind of and and the only time where they really do well, I'm going to speak for men like the way that the only time they really do soften and open up is when they're with a woman who's very much into this and in the spiritual sort of scene with this and doing the work it's, it's it can feel more lonely in terms of like, because the traditional man just doesn't talk that way.
Speaker 2:Like you say like, and even in groups of men it's almost like taboo, because you don't want to be seen, as you know, soft or wimpy or something like that. So, but you're right, like a lot of our fathers were somewhat mutes in that way and that was actually an admirable quality, like a piece of masculinity in this american culture, to not speak about anything and stuff it down. But at a certain point, like you said, generational it does. It's like ready to explode at a global level. You know cause we're all going through this, awakening together all this ugly stuff and and uh, like you said, the women have, you know their traumas and and obviously there has been horrible things done, whatever has been done to them. But, like you say, it's like a, almost like a misplaced. The anger spill, overflows and gets directed at people that don't deserve it, like just men in general. And I guess I would say what's the main bridging point for a woman in a relationship with a man who's struggling to get him to open up?
Speaker 1:Well, here's what I've learned, and it's a little bit different, but what I've learned is that men are really responding to women Because of that safety cue. They're waiting for it to be safe. And so, as a woman, what you can do to help that process is to really let down your own sword as a woman. Let down that word, very sharp words and let down those swords, you know, and stop being so defensive for a moment and recognize that women actually hold a lot of power. Okay, so I think there's a famous quote and I don't mean to offend anybody, but women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition. And so the thing is is that we actually do have a lot of power, but our power comes in form of this nurturing softness power, but our power comes in form of this nurturing softness. And when we allow that nurturing softness to come through more than the angry, judgmental, condescending talk of picking men apart, when we really soften, men naturally open up, and they do so in confidence, in, like a, you know, in quiet confidence with a woman. In fact, men need women, that's kind of it. That's why women hold all the power. Men need women and and if women knew that, you know, really truly, like you know, that was a big thing. That I learned was just how important women are in this role of healing the collective. You know, and I and I, and I will say that what I believe fully is that there are a lot of good men out there, and I'm not here to say that women should subject themselves to any sort of abuse or violence in any way, shape or form. Okay, I'm not here to say that, in fact, toxic environments are not okay to be in and we see these patterns happening. So it's a very complex topic that we're talking about. But most men are absolutely wonderful when they have the safety of a soft, nurturing woman who is ready to hold that space for them. And you don't have to say, honey, I'm holding space for you. Now it's simply to become aware, like, as a woman, just become aware of your energy around men and see how you are affecting them at all times, because men are constantly observing you and constantly responding to you.
Speaker 1:And I speak for a lot of men. Like most, 70% of my clients are men from the ages of like they're in their 40s all the way through to 50. But, like I've got, most men that I work with are in their 60s and 70s and I've learned a lot about how they felt throughout their years and now they're in these, these older years of reflecting. They've got a lot of wisdom and, um, they're sharing more of how their experiences were, um. So so that's the main thing I want to say to women is that if you really knew how much men needed you, you wouldn't feel so um I don't know how to really say that but you wouldn't feel so, um, unvalued.
Speaker 1:Actually, I think maybe a lot of women are angry because they feel unvalued. Um, but you have a lot of value you really do. And maybe men aren't showing it because they feel unvalued. But you have a lot of value you really do. And maybe men aren't showing it because they don't feel safe, because if they need you and then you pull away, you know that's a sign of weakness and you know what I mean. So we've got these crazy dynamics happening, and I know it's way more complex than how I'm making it sound, but it's something that I really feel a lot of women need to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you think men, the women, don't feel valued because sometimes men don't even have the emotional vocabulary or they're just not even comfortable enough to voice it because they were taught from their dad, from the culture, from everything. I got to be the tough man and I like what you said about how it's not about needing to overpower the man. It's like it's not a power game. It's more like a woman is powerful in her own way and leads the man in her own way, but then the man also leads the woman in his way. So it's not like just a simple thing of like oh, the man leads the woman submissive. It's like feminine power is a different language, it's a different kind of thing and, like you said, the man does need to feel safe to step into his masculinity.
Speaker 2:Um, and would you? I wanted to just pivot to like. I know there's a lot of frustration in general with dating now because of, you know, fear or people dating can feel transactional, conditional, with dating apps and things like that. What do you think is the biggest like contributor to that? Is it sort of maybe that, that veiled anger, that trauma, that fear, and maybe how can we start to get past that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a big part of this is that we've never been modeled what a healthy relationship looks like. Okay, so I'm just going to clear my voice just one moment.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Hopefully that works. So we've never been modeled what a healthy dynamic looks like. You know, our parents, all of us have some sort of painful dynamic that we've witnessed amongst our mothers and fathers as caregivers, if we were lucky enough to have a mother and a father. You know a lot of us were brought up by a single parent, and so what we see right now is, you know, in the dating field we've got certain men who definitely kind of go overboard with a lot of their sorry, I just really my voice is super crackly right now.
Speaker 2:You can take some water if you need some water if you need.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:So what I want to say there is that a lot of men are, you know, women are kind of upset with men for maybe being overly promiscuous Okay, let's maybe put it that way. And then other way around, you've got women who absolutely go overly promiscuous as well, and we're using dating apps and things as ways to fill the void. Are traumas and so sexual transaction amongst men and women or you know wherever, this is a way of just kind of burying our feelings and just kind of numbing. I believe at least it can get very numbing in the very you know, by continuing this sort of behavior. You know you find people going out on dates but they don't want strings attached, and so now you've got sexual dynamics but no emotion involved, where sex is absolutely an emotional exchange, like it's an energy exchange. Emotion is energy in motion. That's pretty much what sex is. It's energy in motion, it's very emotional. And so men who are burying their emotions, you know they're not acknowledging the emotional connection there and they're just using it as purely physical as an outlet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like people that are in these long-term relationships 20, 30 years. You know it's like a cultural trope of like making jokes about people being miserable and I think some people just accept that misery. Or like, I guess, for people that never, you know, went on that hero, that journey or that transformation or did all this work, and you know that a lot of us in our generation are doing now prior to marriage, it's almost like they just get locked up into this one character. They're like frozen there. Yeah, like when you think of these TV dads and sitcoms and whatever, and it's just this, like it's their hell because they're just bored or trapped or just in these dysfunctional, mean, manipulative patterns. It's just a whole thing. You know, like it's just, and I know people don't talk about it, but we know how often people get divorced here, you know, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, relationship dynamics are very difficult. I kind of made a joke when we were talking off recording about how you know being alone is the easy part, even though a lot of people don't really like that. But it's when we get into relationships, is when the work starts, it's when the hard work starts. Right, got this dating app dating scene. When you're just a swipe away from somebody else, you know why commit, why really do the hard work. But the reality is relationships require work and love just isn't enough. It's true, like we need to learn so many skills that we've never been modeled um. And so the men, or long-term relationships that we're talking about, men in long-term relationships for a long period of time when we're sitting there, and or women too, like trapped in marriages that are very unfulfilling. We don't have words, we don't have communications, we don't have boundaries. You know we're just in the marriage because we feel like we have to, because you know that's what our parents did and they stuck it out. So you know, um's time, so many people are feeling more and more unfulfilled because we are growing, we are expanding and if we're not growing together, you're going to be growing apart from your partner. And it requires work, it requires communication and it requires knowing what you need in a relationship, and that's the number one thing that we need to all figure out on our own. First, what do we need?
Speaker 1:You know everybody I'm sure you've heard of love language but everyone has a different way of feeling loved, appreciated, respected, cared for, and so this is why I can't really speak for all men, because men feel that value and respect through different behaviors and different ways, and we need to know what our needs are. How do you feel valued? What makes you feel valued? What makes you feel respected, what makes you feel disrespected? And can you put that into words to tell your partner?
Speaker 1:Or if you're dating somebody and it's gotten into the stages of like two, three, three months in and you know this is a conversation you need to have or when, when you start to date someone, usually they're on their best behavior right away and then you start to see traits later on, and when you start to feel unvalued and not appreciated and disrespected based on someone's behavior or actions or the way they speak, you need to be okay enough to actually say that that makes me feel. When you do A, b and C, I feel really disrespected and you need to speak that. Okay, that's the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and set the boundaries, have uncomfortable conversation. I think that's. That's like the most important thing in a relationship. How can you weather fights, disagreements? Can you always keep it in the frame of hey, we love each other, uh, we're going to work it out. Um, we're not going to punish, we're not going to do silent treatment little weird punishing games, cause that's just a no go, you know, for me.
Speaker 2:And and it's interesting, cause I, I, I always said in relationships, like one of my big love languages is words of affirmation. So that's something I would stress, like you know, and I think a lot of people appreciate that, because you can't know, sometimes you just want to hear someone say, hey, a great job, I really appreciate you, even if it feels repetitive, like you just want to hear it because maybe you grew up in a household or whatever that people only were negative and critiquing and passive-aggressive, or you're just not used to it and you just have like a more fragile way. Um, but, like you were saying, there are those non-negotiables where you want to set out like how can I feel respected, appreciated this, that, what can we do? So what are those other pieces that you say are required? Like you said, love's not enough. So what are these other bullet points that are absolute requirements.
Speaker 1:Well, in relationships what is really important is. So when I say love isn't enough, it means that we need to have respect, admiration, and there's the value piece as well, and I'm just trying to tune into what the other ones would be. But to absolutely appreciate and admire someone is different than love. So I was married for 10 years and I used to say to my ex-husband, my husband back then, I used to say you love me but you don't like me. And it was true, we didn't spend time together, there was no time spent trying to hang out or even have a discussion, and yet I knew the love was there. Of course he loved me. We were together all those years and we had children together and everything. And so there was love there. But I knew at the same time it's like, you know, where was that admiration, you know? And so admiration is different than love.
Speaker 1:When you admire somebody, it's like you almost want to be your best self to kind of meet them at their level. It makes you show up every, every day, wanting, desiring to be at that level, to really admire somebody for their qualities. Um, that's different than love. Um, respect is huge. Respect is huge. That means that when someone you know trips or screws up a little bit. When you respect somebody, you don't belittle them, you don't tear them down further. When you respect somebody and they have a little slip up out of that respect, you know that that's not really them, that they must be having a hard day. They're going through something. That's this equal, you know, this equal understanding. When you truly respect somebody, it doesn't take just one fight to call it off. When you respect somebody, you want to communicate and work it through, because I have respect for you as a person.
Speaker 2:I know you're not perfect, right, like that's kind of yeah, it's like a deeper knowing and appreciation as souls like that. You're going to go through this, these rocky, rough times. You're always going to make mistakes both of you. Yeah, that's an interesting one, because I think you're hitting that point of like you want to feel challenged. You want to feel like you're upping your game every day, just because the person makes you want to reach up to the stars and be your best self and feel that expansive wonder, like when you look up at the stars and you're like, oh, I just love the whole world and everything. I love everyone, not just you. I want to expand and be my best self because we're like, yeah, yeah yeah, you grow together when you both admire each other.
Speaker 1:It's like I admire you for what you do. You equally admire each other, so you want to grow. That's what power couples are built on, really, yeah yeah. Affinity, that's another word. When you said the stars, there you go. When you have affinity for somebody, that's another word. When you said the stars there, there you go. When you have affinity for somebody, that that's something that will carry you through to the long term a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:The wonder and the awe and the curiosity, yeah yeah, playful nature, childlike nature, yeah, um, even if you're both sort of expressive and you, you just, yeah, like you said, you want to be better, um, so, so.
Speaker 1:So respect, admiration and affinity for somebody, and those are different qualities than just love so you think, sorry, just that one point on.
Speaker 2:so when you say, oh, I, I you like me, but you don't love me. But would you so? Would you define love in that sense as something like a trauma bond or something like, hey, I love, I love you. We've linked up hearts, we've formed this cord in this bond and I just don't want to let go of you because I love you and you're like supplying love. It's comfort.
Speaker 1:It's comfortable and um, and it feels uncomfortable to let that go. Um, but you know, that's actually the definition of toxic when you can't show up and be your, you know if you're not treating someone right, you won't let them go. That's kind of the definition of what toxic would be. As well, like when you're repeating these cycles, tidbits of information, and I heard somebody say about a therapist who asked their client well, what do you love about him? And if you can't, if you just say I just do, that's actually just your subconscious saying I feel comfortable with this person and you don't really know why. So if you don't really know why, like, if you can't say, like, when someone says, well, why do you love her? Or why do you love him? And if you can't list, well, oh, because he's this and he's that, or she's this and she's that. That's just this comfortable state of well, she, you know, having her there makes me feel somewhat better, but I really don't know why or how.
Speaker 1:And yet a lot of these toxic relationships that people stay in, they will claim that they really, really, really love them. And when someone says, well, what do you love about them? They're like, well, I just do. It's actually your subconscious. You know and this is where we're going to get into attachment styles because your subconscious has recorded certain things that allowed you to feel safe and remember. Your subconscious is programmed, or your subconscious is the number one job, for your subconscious is to keep you safe and you feel safe in what you know. So if you were raised with certain patterns, with certain caregivers showing up a certain way, and then you, when you say trauma bonds, so then you fall in love with somebody, but you don't know why you love them. So then you fall in love with somebody but you don't know why you love them, that's usually because your subconscious mind says this feels comfortable to me and this reminds me of how I was brought up on some level.
Speaker 1:And so let's stay here, because this feels safe to me, and it's not necessarily what's healthy, it's not necessarily what's good for you in the long run, but the subconscious mind just wants to keep you safe based on what you know, and so yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because that line you said before it's better to be alone than to be in a dysfunctional relationship. Is that what you said dysfunctional?
Speaker 1:relationship. Is that what you said? I was saying that so so, so, like I said it earlier about, about how I'm not condoning anyone to stay in a toxic relationship, or what is a toxic relationship. Sometimes people are in a toxic relationship and when a friend says to them, well, why are you staying, why are you there, They'll say I love them. Well, why do you love them? I don't know, I just do because it's toxic, but it makes you feel comfortable because you were raised in a toxic environment.
Speaker 1:Therefore, you've now you use the word trauma bond. So now that you're, you know, you've bonded to somebody that has those, it has the same energy of the way you were raised. You know, and that's how attachment styles are formed, where we have anxious attachment styles and then we've got these avoidant attachment styles, and the avoidant attachment styles can be broken up into a fearful avoidant or a dismissive avoidant, okay, and so avoidants have gotten very good at meeting their own needs, because when they were raised, there was nobody there to meet their needs, so they learned that nobody is going to take care of me but me. So they got very good at feeling their own needs and this is what makes them feel really uncomfortable having their needs met by others. And so you've got these avoidant people.
Speaker 1:And when you and then if you're somebody, um, as a partner showing up with an avoidant, if you show up and you're ready to meet their needs, that'll scare the crap out of them. Even though you're healthy, even though you want the best for them, even though you're just trying to show up as your best self and be secure and meet their needs, they will like the moment, like in the beginning, it won't feel so badly for them. But the moment things tend to get serious, they'll take off, because they're not used to having someone meet their needs and in their experience, if anybody who meets their needs usually leaves, you know that's again like a childhood thing.
Speaker 1:So it's you know, I know I'm kind of digressing off the topic, but you know that's, that's like one example of how our childhood forms. You know these attachments to different people.
Speaker 2:Because for those avoidance does that feel like, hey, I have this little sacred place and I've nurtured it and I brought myself through my whole life and all the pain and all the this and that, so I can't. It's too, it's a bit destabilizing to let you into that inner world like that inner sanctum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Then they kind of have to they, they, they need that space, they need to process by themselves. And then if you are a secure type person, or even an anxious style person and a and an avoidant kind of pulls away, it's going to feel really shocking and hurtful and you're going to think like, well, what did I do? And it actually has nothing to do with you. It has to do with their patterning and what makes them feel safe and what doesn't make them feel safe. And that's why I was bringing up that subconscious mind, because it's the subconscious that's telling the avoidant hey, you're safer when you've got a lot of distance, when you've got a lot of independence. Don't get committed to anybody, because that means you're not safe, because you can't rely on anyone because they're not reliable. They will leave right. So that's kind of where a dismissive attachment style. That's what's going on inside their world at least.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that is such a hard thing to navigate and it's hard to navigate that with grace. Like, how much alone time do we need when we get in fights, that ebb and flow? Hey, I'm going to go away for three days, but it's okay, I'm going to come back and then some people are in the hell of like. Every time we don't talk. I don't know if I'm ever going to hear from you again. Yeah, it's, it's so hard on people, but that's why, like you say, it's to have those agreements before you get into the deeper parts of the relationship of like, hey, you know, maybe we have, we sleep in separate beds or we spend time apart for this amount of time and we need this type of recharge. It's so specific and individualized, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and honestly, like, both partners need to be willing to put in the work, like to just be aware of their own stuff, in order to have a conversation like that, and I think that's why it's important that, like, something like this, having this discussion with you for you know, people to listen to it will bring it. This was never taught to us. Basically, like, this is what we're moving into. Are these more conscious relationships? You know so that when we form a relationship, we're doing so consciously instead of letting the subconscious run the patterns and an anxious type. They always felt like they had to earn love always, so they had their needs met, but only when they jumped through hoops, only when they did A, b and C. They got the good reinforcement only when they were behaving a certain way. So they learned that if I have to act a certain way to have my needs met, so that's where your people pleasing comes in, that's where, like, oh, I can act this way and you'll love me, or maybe. And they have no autonomy to what their needs are and they're willing to do anything and everything for that other person to love them back. They're trying to earn love all the time, but they don't know what they need and for an anxious type person, what they need to know is to fill their needs as like. They need to feel comfortable filling their own needs as much as possible. They need to become a little more independent. You know where an avoidant has to become a little bit more comfortable with being dependent and a healthy let's, because we were never modeled what a secure relationship looks like. A secure person is comfortable meeting their own needs but as well as having their needs met by another person, they feel safe in that. That's what a secure person does, and I actually have gone through different attachment styles.
Speaker 1:I was more anxious when I first met when I got married. I got married when I was 20, if you can imagine and I was married for 10 years until I was about 30. And then I've spent some time in very toxic, crazy relationships and we can touch into like karmic and twin flames and what all of that is. But now that I'm learning all of this, I could see that my attachment style has changed. Our attachment style is changed in relationships with people. So I was anxious in the beginning. After 10 years of really feeling like I was stuck and trapped, when I got out of there. I became very avoidant because my fear was, if I get into a relationship, I will be trapped and I was really scared of attachment. I became very avoidant because my fear was, if I get into a relationship, I will be trapped and I was really scared of attachment. I was really scared of commitment and I'm still working on that.
Speaker 1:So where I'm at now in my own personal journey is learning what does a secure person, how does a secure person, carry themselves? If I was secure, what would I do in this situation? Person carry themselves Like. If I was secure, what would I do in this situation? And I literally bring this up every single time, even in relationships to friends and family, but romantic as well, and I know that I am scared to let someone meet my needs because I was really let down in the past and so I have big walls now and I'm doing my best to to not bring the past into my present and to really give people and open up.
Speaker 1:And I tell people right away, like you know, there's times where my fear gets the best of me and you know, don't get. You know, don't worry if I, if I, you know, give you lots of space, like I'll ask for it now. Now I can communicate that. You know this is a little bit too much for me right now and I do need to process, but I will come back. So just like you were saying, but as long as we speak about it and explain that it's not them, it's just my own fears getting triggered and so yeah, that's that you make some really good points, like I'm just yeah, you're, you're teaching me things as we go here.
Speaker 2:I'm just soaking it in like a sponge um and relating to a lot of it too, because I feel like the people pleaser thing is such a big thing for me and I know there's, there's a huge portion of guys that are like that and you know you can be a. There's women people pleasers too, like it's the same kind of thing, but it's just that is such a hell, like it's such a prison to live in because you do feel like maybe they'd be more anxious. But and the earning love part I can relate to that too. So many of us grew in those, grew up in those types of households Like your existence was only acknowledged if you got an A's on your report cards or whatever, and and then you're just punished if, if not, and there's like nothing in between. There's no like substance and and what is this thing called love and how do we interact and how do we have healthy relationships Like I, I wish they did a course in school.
Speaker 2:I wish they didn't. You could major in it in college. You know, looking back, cause we're just so clueless. We're literally raising ourselves, we're teaching ourselves from scratch. Because we're just so clueless. We're literally raising ourselves, we're teaching ourselves from scratch. So the people pleaser thing is really it's bad because when you bottle it up it's so painful. I'm, you know, harboring that resentment and you can't get your alone time. But I'm wondering we talked a bit about, you know, those painful relationships that you had. What is the thing or the part of that challenge and pain that got you to the place where you're now in more of a balanced healthy place?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So a big part of that people pleasing and that anxious feeling was very much where I would pour into somebody and I would pour into somebody and I would think that if I gave and gave and gave, naturally they would give back. But we normally attract these partners that just love to drink up that energy as much as possible. So the one thing that I realized was that I basically got to a point where I completely depleted myself. So, to be honest, you know, my time here hasn't always been easy. Where you know, I was very depressed in my marriage, you know, there was no speaking up. I couldn't really speak on my needs because I was a people pleaser and I didn't know how. I never was taught. I never said like it was never okay to bring your needs up in my family setting. I never said like it was never okay to bring your needs up in my family setting. It was my parents' way or the highway, literally. You know, the door is there. And so I learned I had this fear of abandonment in a way. If I didn't act a certain way, what then? And eventually I basically Peter it got so painful to keep the pattern going that I broke like. I literally broke Like.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of what happened is I completely depleted myself to a point where I hit a point where I was like I can't keep doing this. And this is where I started to find myself. This is where I did leave the marriage. It was very hard for me to do. You know, I had this thing in my head about. I had this thing in my head about I had to stay together for the kids and then I realized I actually had to leave the marriage for the kids so that they could see that this wasn't actually okay, this very off balance dynamic right when you give and you pour and you pour and you pour into somebody who drinks it and drinks it, and drinks it and drinks it and never, ever gives it back. So then you know, next relationship I was very much kind of the same, except I was a little more of a fearful avoidant, where I would give and give and give and the moment that I realized I wasn't going to get that back, I would cut it off right away, but then he'd come back and then we do the same thing all over again and I literally went through that like for three years of this repetitive cycle.
Speaker 1:And so what I realized was, through these relationships I learned to really stand up and love myself as much as I could, which meant, which meant if I really loved myself, I would choose a healthier, dynamic right. And so this is still like am I in a relationship right now? No, have I been in certain relationships? Yes, but not long-term. I basically get to the six-week mark and I see these patterns, I see patterns in myself and it's just not working. But I'm much better now because I did have a fear of just people pleasing, even when I know the relationship isn't good, I would stay in it. So in a way I've improved because now I know that. Hey, I know, I already know the pattern, I can already see it. So so, but basically through all the hardship I formed a deep relationship to myself.
Speaker 1:So that's like the short answer to your question is how did I get to a level balanced out place? It basically got too painful to stay the same and I had to make a shift. And the only way to fully shift and not rely on someone else to make it better for me was to really sit there and do the work, like literally the subconscious patterning, recognizing what was happening, not blaming anyone, you know, and also just saying, okay, well, how can I fill my own needs as much as possible? Like, we all have a need for connection and that's probably the hardest one to fill on your own. But you can feel connected to yourself if you nurture yourself, spend time with yourself in certain ways.
Speaker 1:But I realized that I wanted a certain man in my life, at least the one that I would say would be my twin flame, dynamic, maybe karmic, maybe just a catalyst in a way.
Speaker 1:I wanted him to show up for me and I realized, through this mirroring image and mirroring shadow work a bit mirroring image and, like you know, mirroring shadow work a bit I wasn't showing up for myself at all and I really needed to start to show up for myself in order to attract somebody who was going to show up for me.
Speaker 1:It's kind of the way these patterns work the moment that I started to show up for me. I have a lot of men now that show up for me. They're not necessarily romantic men in my life, but I have a lot of masculine support and I'm so grateful for that and, as a woman, I recognize and I'm, like verbally grateful to each and every one of them. And I feel like the more I'm grateful to the men in my life who are like my brother, my dad, but friends friends in my life, masculine friends in my life Um, I, I express that gratitude outwardly and I feel like that has an effect. And I feel like that has an effect and I feel like I'm at a point now where it's like you know what, I'm attracting really amazing men. They may not be that romantic, perfect partner for me, but I want to acknowledge all the good men in my life, so that's part of my healing as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a lonely place, having been through it. Like it's such a lonely place when you do sit with yourself because somehow you feel cheated and angry by the world and I think I've talked to a lot of people that have that experience like givers over givers, yeah. But then and I've spent years in that situation where you just you're always coming back to that void and you're like, oh man, I'm just back to myself again, just sitting here, breathing, you know, looking up at the ceiling, and I just feel heartbroken and alone again. Oh, I'm never going to find my person. And and I wonder how much of that these takers or people that just can't give back what you need and you're pouring in and not getting back. It's like how much of that is just unconscious, like it's not the same vibrational level and they don't even really know they're not intentionally trying to scam you, but it's just like you're not being filled up and that is such a painful thing to transition from.
Speaker 2:That lack mentality. I think what you're saying like this lack mentality that we learned as kids or just in the world, to like more of the wealth and the having mentality which is just like all right, I'm discerning. This isn't for me, I can say no to it. Maybe this person has amazing qualities. But six weeks in, like you say, your radar is just right on, just super sharp. Now, yeah, and you're learning to discern, whereas before it would feel like, oh no, I'm not going to. I'm never going to have love If I turn this person down.
Speaker 2:I'm never going to find someone so beautiful. I'm never going to find someone so funny, yeah, and you going to find someone so beautiful. Never going to find someone so funny, yeah, and you're right. Like that comes from those brutally painful moments with self when you say like you've had enough, and you just crack because you're just, it's just so much pain, it's like you're dying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and I guess that's the old you dying yeah, and in that I had spiritual awakenings as well, like in that breaking and that breaking openings as well, like in that breaking, in that breaking open. I think Rumi says that the light enters where you've been cracked open is where the light enters. So when you have a broken heart and it feels like a broken shell, know that the light is coming in to reach you then and that's you know. I am pretty successful in my energy healing and the work that I offer, and all of that was birthed through these painful dynamics with other people, actually, and that cracking open is what cracked me open to spiritual awakening. And my joke is that some people go to Peru and take ayahuasca, but honestly, relationships have been my biggest initiation. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel similar in that way. Yeah, it is really, it's. It can be earth shattering Definitely.
Speaker 1:Definitely. So what I realized is that you know, I've also dealt with a lot of people who just stonewall, you know. So you can't even get the closure, you can't even have that conversation of feeling heard or acknowledging. You know how it was in the like, even when the relationship is over. It would be nice to be able to at least, you know, get some closure on that, you know. And so I've dealt a lot with that stonewalling where there is no communication anymore. So how do you process when that person's just like not willing to have any sort of conversation, even if it's like a relationship dynamic where you really want to work it out Right, or like the love is there, like cause? I'm sure that we've all experienced these relationships where the love is so strong, but then there's just these communication breakdowns.
Speaker 1:And so in my experience, what I realized is like even just writing a letter, as if you were speaking to the person, where you can get this out of you and in that letter writing it's very reflective, but it's not to like chew them out in a letter and say, well, you did this, you did this, but really acknowledge what you wanted from them and then give that to yourself so like I really wanted that this person really acknowledge exactly how painful this relationship was. Like you know, there was so much cheating that went on and betrayal that went on and that was never acknowledged. And when I brought it up he just stonewalled me. He's like, well, no acknowledgement, and that hurt because I was like I wasn't even mad about cheating I'm not a jealous person but the lying and the betraying was definitely painful and so what I realized? I was like well, I wanted that acknowledgement from you. I wanted you to acknowledge how much pain I felt.
Speaker 1:But I realized I never fully let myself acknowledge how much pain I was in. So in those moments of solitude, of quiet spending time with yourself, I would recommend, like putting your hand on your chest and like literally being like you know what this really fricking hurt me it did, and acknowledge that pain and acknowledge what it felt like to be betrayed. You know that's what you'd want from a person to do. If you know, if you were having any sort of conversation with them, you would want them to say you know, I'm sorry that that really hurt you, or just acknowledge you know what you've been through as somebody who gave and gave and gave and never received anything back. And so, yeah, the best thing to do is really form that relationship to yourself and say you know what I felt so much pain, and just acknowledging it, don't pretend that you didn't feel it, because it fucking hurt.
Speaker 2:Sorry to swear on your podcast, but it hurts, you know, and it does, and so yeah, you know and it does, and um, so, yeah, oh, yeah, it's okay, um, it is, yeah, and it's such a deep anger. I think too, for some people where you, they just have such a need for retribution, like you want to make that person pay or or no. You want to make them feel the pain that you felt. And it really is just like you describe it well, like it's just. It allows you to have that space to give it back to yourself, to actually acknowledge the pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and and realizing that they could never really the way you wanted them to show up they couldn't, and that's the thing you wanted something from show up they couldn't and that's the thing you wanted something from them that they just couldn't do, and that's because it was, you know, for whatever reason on their end. It's far too painful to admit when they were wrong, maybe when they were a child. If they did something wrong, they were severely beaten. Who knows what went on in their childhood. I'm just saying like an extreme example. But then when you are showing up saying you know you did this to me, they just take off.
Speaker 1:You know they're not going to acknowledge it, and yet there is a lot of like what you just said is so common, where hurt people hurt people, and so this is part of our healing is to really acknowledge that you know, when we're hurt, we do tend to hurt people, and this is what we're moving like consciously. We're moving out of that, um, but it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of willingness to do the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's a very unique one, especially in today's day and age, being behind the screens and all that, and it's like people literally feel so dehumanized and like like they're just not even treated with dignity, like someone's treating them like You're just a swipe away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're just Down to the next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's why it's like for this generation it's so. It to me it feels so cowardly and I've been so angry in those situations. You know the ghosting, cheating, whatever like, and I know many people have gone through that too. But you're right, it's like after you've cried enough, screamed enough and just been enraged and just you, you finally like understand in that rock bottom oh, they just couldn't give it, they just they could, just couldn't quite see it, they couldn't quite hear it, they couldn't quite feel me. Yeah, you couldn't quite go there. Yeah, and that's okay. And now you know. Yeah, like now you know, because when you meet another person where you see two, three, three weeks into dating, like you kind of just sense the signs, like you say you can just see it like so clear. Um, that's the healing when you heal that kind of codependent part of you. But, uh, it's really, you know, trial by fire. You earn it from walking through hell.
Speaker 1:Well, because we've never been modeled that and so we are the generation to become consciously aware. And it's hard because we are like blindfolded going into this. But the hopes are when we figure this out on some level and we start to form healthy, secure relationships with one another. The next generations won't have it, so they won't be so blindfolded. You know they'll have this modeled. This is more of the conversation that we need to bring up. You know, I hope that in the future we have more education on this.
Speaker 1:You know, like even traditional therapy is starting to expand in on these attachment styles different styles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why I'm glad we're talking about it and it's just because when you think about it sometimes you know, maybe during childhood did parents totally ignore, ignore our existence. We felt totally neglected. You know the these souls that that in our generation that came in, like these old souls that were almost like raising their parents emotionally, like on a totally different level, and then, like you said, the generational curse breakers. It's just so painful, it's so. It's just this whole thing of family and just breaking and feeling invisible and yeah it's almost like this split personality thing.
Speaker 2:It's such a that's a whole another. So it's complex.
Speaker 1:But what I would say to that is, the only thing we can control is how we show up and you are actually breaking the generational curses by just maintaining your responsibility for your own behavior your own, because you can't jump in your parents' body and actually change the way that they're acting. You can't force anybody to behave a certain way. You can't be in a relationship with someone and jump in their body and make them treat you properly. So what? The only thing we can control is ourselves and our actions and our reactions to things. And that's all I'm asking from the collective is that you don't need to go and save anybody else. You don't need to like really do anything except show up in your try your best, you know your best. And if we all took responsibility, we would really be in a balanced place right now. Right, because we'd all be responsible for our behavior, for our actions and our reactions to things. So that's the one thing that we can do, because it gets really, really, really complicated, and yet our families can really trigger us, and that's kind of where our work comes in. So when our families are triggering us, how are we going to respond to that? Or when our families want to overstep our boundaries, or if our families or partners want to drain us, because we have a lot of you know that that feeder type energy, even amongst siblings or parents and caregivers, and so we need to put a stop to that out, like out of our own autonomy, like we need to say no more. And and it doesn't mean, you know, they might not like that, they might say a lot of things to you, but that's not really your concern. What other people think of you is none of your business. Just stay in your lane, focus on yourself and become the best version that you can be and by the law of attraction and the universe, you will start to draw in these dynamics and these relationships that actually reflect the work that you have been doing. So we can do a lot of like pointing the finger, right, and it's okay. Like, so interesting Cause I always say, as well, it's not our fault, okay, so that's where, like you know, we want to point the finger because we can see that these patterns and these dynamics that our families or our relationships with other people, like you know, they caused us pain, they caused us wounding, they caused us trauma, right, so that can't be your fault. It's not your fault that you were in an abusive relationship, right. But what I will say is that it's our responsibility, it's my responsibility, to make sure I'm not going to allow that to continue. That's my responsibility. It's my responsibility to how I process it once I leave, right. And so it's not your fault, but it's our responsibility as this generation that you and I are in. It's our responsibility, because that's kind of our sole contract coming in here.
Speaker 1:Not your fault, but your responsibility, because no one else is going to show up for you. If you're not going to show up for you, who's going to show up for you? If you're not going to put up boundaries, who's going to put up boundaries for you? Nobody's coming to save you. That's a big one. That's a huge one. You've got to do it. You've got to, and that's the point that I got at in my relationships when I hit rock bottom, I realized that if I don't do this, no one's going to come and rescue me, like no one's going to say Erin, you're a good person, you deserve all of this stuff. I had to do it. I had to literally put my boots on the ground and make choices, and you know. So. This is where else a lot of the spiritual community is. You know, the action-oriented piece is a big part of it. Right, you can wish your way there all you like, but you also have to take responsibility and do the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think there's nothing that can, like we say, like this trial by fire, these catalysts of these relationships, there's nothing that could save me or save you from going into the fire and like feeling this most earth-shattering heartbreak and and uh, like you said, it's like an ayahuasca ceremony or it literally is it's harder, it's harder, it's.
Speaker 1:It's not just a couple nights of doing, you know, and then you get to come back to your normal state of consciousness.
Speaker 2:This is like real, yeah because you're and you're working with another person who's has their own heartbreak and their own issues and their own. You know, when you form that cord, um, with intercourse and and just the cords that are formed, yeah it's like this balancing act and you might feel that person's collapsing.
Speaker 2:So you feel them dragging on you, pulling on you. Then you're collapsing and you're pulling them and it's just this dance of like man, I'm going insane. This rollercoaster ride is insane, especially when it's the first kind of loves, like, as you say, the spiritual awakening happens. And then loves after that are just different because they're much deeper, much more like you're aware of all these other forces. Um, but that's a delicate dance to find someone who you can truly grow with, like we were talking about. Yeah, like cause.
Speaker 2:I think I've talked to people that are like, well, I can't, I just can't find someone that can you know, keep up, or I get bored, or they don't quite understand this or my inner journey and, um, so much of us are fine in this generation, are finding ourselves, are super mission and purpose oriented. That's just how we came in, what we're doing in this transition time in the planet. But maybe what would you say to those people that are maybe in your similar position? But they, they wonder like, oh, does this person exist? The world's going crazy. I've done all this work but I have really high standards, but maybe there's just not that many good men out there. Maybe there's just not that many good women, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well and see, the thing is is that I believe that, like, we can bring out the best in each other if we know how to communicate what we need. So obviously it's important to have this foundational thing there, like when you're first meeting somebody, and I wouldn't really recommend, like you know, falling in love with potential. That kind of leads to disappointment as well, right, you know, falling in love with potential, that kind of leads to disappointment as well, right. However, if you know, if you've okay, if you've got somebody who's really, really willing to work with you, that's a quality that I want in a, in a relationship, because if I've got somebody who's not willing to look at themselves or do any sort of improvement or work at all, like when you bring up an issue, do they say, do they listen to you and say, oh yeah, like I see your point and I'm willing to kind of shift. Like, if you've got somebody who's willing to work through issues, that's a big one. Because in my past at least, I dealt with people that if I brought up any of my needs that weren't being met, they were gone, so there was no working together, and so if I got someone who won't work with me at all, there's nowhere to grow. So I don't think that, like you know, maybe looking for the person that ticks all the boxes, maybe that person doesn't quite exist yet, but it doesn't mean that those people won't grow into somebody that you can be with.
Speaker 1:And what I've realized and now this is a good point too with internet dating when you go on a date with somebody and we're adults, it's very likely that you're intimate with someone right away, and it's actually because we don't. Okay, you're meeting a stranger. Literally. You've only seen them online. It's like a total stranger off the street. Now you're spending one-on-one time with them, and if you're alone with them, it feels really uncomfortable and sometimes you just want comfort. So it feels comfortable just to start making out and just start being intimate with them, because it breaks the ice. And so the thing is is that that's a pattern?
Speaker 1:And what I would say is that what if we actually started to look for friends? What if we actually built friendship with people and built a foundation and then decided you know what? We're really really good together? I really really like this. I like how we're balanced. There's an equal give and take here, just as friends, and if you've got a friend of the opposite sex who you can talk for hours with. That's already an amazing foundation, and so I think people kind of have in their head like friend zone. But you don't have to stay in a friend zone. You can actually create an amazing foundation with a partner of the opposite sex and really have a great equal balance give and take. You guys can even have dinner together and hang out as friends. This happens. I've got excellent guy friends and I think well, hopefully none of them actually listen to this. Maybe they will.
Speaker 1:My point is that I feel like out of these men who are excellent friends for me and they're there to support me and cheer me on and make me be my best self, if that evolved into a relationship, that's a soul mate bond, like that's something that's long-term because we've already got a foundation. Like like I've been friends with somebody for four years and this guy changed my life. Like he got me doing breath work, he got me doing ice dips. Four years has gone by.
Speaker 1:We never thought anything that there would be any chemistry there ever, right, and he's going through a lot right now, but like we've just realized that, like you know what, I'm really, really grateful for you Like really grateful, to a point where it's like, wow, is this like a form of love that I've never felt, because it's actually healthy and it's not toxic, or it doesn't have that push-pull dynamic of what we would say chemistry is? And so, you know, it's interesting because I'm still learning and I'm like, wow, you know, I never really considered that as an option, but now that I'm looking at it it's like wow, I could really. I like having a man like that showing up for me the way he did. Just a point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in a way for women that have had repeatedly horrible relationships with men and father figures, that's a way of like repatterning them, to just say oh this is a great guy friend that I can feel safe with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's healing and the reason why we've been friends was because he was in another relationship, so we always just stayed friends, right, like it was like group setting, he's with somebody else, I was with somebody else, but we're really good friends. You know, and this is years now with building a friendship, it just it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's, it's, and it's, it's. Um, the programming is so strong for men that you know the whatever media, all that stuff that you can't have for both men and women. You can't have girlfriends if you're a guy, you know. And I think what plays into that is the lack of sexual discipline, like the idea that we're just total idiots that can't control ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and maybe part of that. Yeah, it's not true, but maybe it is partially for a portion of guys. You know, and we're, we are, and we are. It's just a vicious cycle, because I wish, as men, we did have some of that education around, like you know, figuring out intimacy, having a spiritual side of it, because when you grow up in this culture it's just totally mechanical. You're bombarded with ads, movies, whatever programming.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of programming and I will just bring my point back from the beginning is that women lead the way on how men are showing up, and if I put the moves on him a long time ago, I'm sure there would have been something. You know what.
Speaker 2:I mean but.
Speaker 1:I was very reserved. I held myself in a certain energy.
Speaker 1:So I'm just going to give the power to the women where we, like we, kind of determine how men are going to be responding to us. If I'm really forward with you as a man, naturally that's your response to me. If I'm really you know, you know, holding myself with integrity and I'm actually showing up as someone who genuinely cares and I'm listening, and we do form a bond and a friendship together, it's kind of like you're responding to that energy. You're not going to put the moves on a woman who's not necessarily showing that same style of intimate interest with you. So I'm just going to say that for women, we really do lead the way on how men are responding.
Speaker 1:I don't think that it's the man's fault at all. I think that there are some men out there who know how to take advantage of women and push boundaries, even when they say I don't want to do this. We do see that pushiness happening and I'm not saying that that's okay at all. But as a woman, get up and walk away. You have a choice. You really, really, really do. And for me as a woman I'm just going to speak for all women it's very, very hard to say no in those situations. Very, very hard to say no and this boundaries, and I actually care about myself. If something like that, if I was in a situation like that again, I would just get up and walk away. You know, and and now you know there's other things that are awful and terrible with violence and those are. That is an absolutely no, like that's not okay. You know, and I'm talking about all kinds of things that again, that's in our culture, it's in our programming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the power that you reference, the feminine power, and there's so much electricity power, you know, when we talk about the sexual aspect, but also about just between two hearts, yeah, who love each other, who could be the soul, family, whatever instant connection, this that. But you are better served so often when you don't introduce the physical intimacy too soon, because it just muddles everything.
Speaker 1:Well, and we think that it does make us feel comfortable, it does break the ice and I've been there. I mean, I have felt that where I'm like it would just be better if we stopped talking right now and let's just let the sex talk, or let's like our bodies talk, because then you know, and it is comfortable, it's comfortable to be held and if you, you know, intimacy can be really comforting. But just be aware of you, know that you are using it for comfort, just be aware that you're using it for comfort and that if we really want to get into healthy, secure relationships, for those long-term conscious relationships, it's really good to have a foundation as a friend first and then see if that grows into intimacy. I think you've got something for the long term.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and that's, you know, your sacred, sacred temple. And I think, with spiritual awakening we both talk about that on our platforms. It's just like you're more and more becoming sensitive with with every death and rebirth, with every growth, and then you do start to respect yourself more and more and more, because maybe you've touched the flame enough or you don't want to be frivolous or in any way casual with sexual stuff. But what I was going to say was how I know we talked about it from the women showing up for men. But how do you think is there anything advice you can offer to men? Yeah, showing up to women for women.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what I've noticed with my clients is that men carry a lot of guilt, pain, shame, trauma, and that's what leads to a lot of these traumatic, weird, dysfunctional behaviors in men. And so one thing for men if you knew how important you are to women and that's something that I feel like I speak collectively for a lot of like, if I'm giving a voice to the divine feminine, if I'm giving a voice to all women on this earth, we need you protectors, loyal, you've got integrity, you've got honor. And if you knew those qualities in you and you could bring those out more instead of being compounded by the guilt, shame, pain that you carry, because that just promotes more guilt, shame, pain, behavior of hiding. And so, the same way I said about how I'm healing my attachment style and because we weren't modeled it, I'm looking at how do secure people show up? What I would say to men is look at how secure men show up, but actually how would a divine masculine show up? Because it's never been modeled to us. In media and in this society, in our culture, men are always painted like in the movie scene as a certain way. And really what I see men have a lot of integrity and honor and they want to provide and protect women. They do. And so the way men could really help themselves is to really say like, okay, these are qualities I want to embody, because, again, we weren't modeled that If you never had, like, a father figure in your life, or you had a father figure who was extremely toxic, again you're going into this blindfolded and so think about that, like how would a divine masculine show up? And they do want to provide, protect.
Speaker 1:A lot of men have that feeling of wanting to protect women and when men show up in a certain light and they want to protect women, some women say, oh, you're being controlling, because with women we've got this hyper-independence and I keep coming back to it but women lead the way on this. Like when I look at the timeline of earth, it's about women showing up differently. That's going to allow men into their fullness. So what men need to know is that you didn't do anything wrong and it's not your fault because of the guilt and shame that you carry. We want to, I want, I want to take that off of your shoulders. I want, I want you to take it off your shoulders. You know it's not your fault at all and um and I think that's the number one thing that men need to know but how can men show up better for women is, um, gosh, that's a really great question, cause I can't really think of how they should be acting differently. You know, the way I see it is is they've been painted in a really negative light and I know not a lot of people want to hear that, because I know a lot of angry women out there. I'm friends with a lot of women. When I start talking like this, they're like did you just really say that? And I'm like yes, they are absolutely responding to us. They are absolutely responding to us. They are. And so, yeah, it is hard. How can men show up better for women?
Speaker 1:You're not mind readers. That's the number one thing. Women expect men to be mind readers. So that's again. You know you're not mind readers.
Speaker 1:And women get really frustrated at men for not being like a woman. How come you didn't notice this, or how could you forget this, or what are you doing? And they literally get mad and they pick men apart. But men are like. They're literally like what do you mean? They're totally innocent. I'm sorry, but like so many things that women are mad about towards men. They're innocent in this, they have no idea and they're not mind readers, they didn't know.
Speaker 1:So one example in modern day, in marriages or couples where maybe the woman, like you know, actually made everything nice and the man's coming home and, like you know, I'm thinking in traditional roles here, please don't get overly offended Like your listeners are like what do you mean? She's cleaning the house. I know we're meant to be sharing tasks. I know we're meant to have like we should be supporting one another. But let's just pretend that a man who worked all day to provide and protect for his family comes home and he takes off his shoes and he walks into the kitchen and all of a sudden he notices that his wife is really mad at him and he really doesn't know what he did wrong. He was like what did I do? I literally just got home, like what happened? And she's giving him the silent treatment and she's mad because he didn't notice that she did all this stuff in the house. It was like didn't you notice that this is done and this is done and I put this here? And you didn't even. And she feels underappreciated. So it's a big miscommunication between two parties. So underappreciated, so it's a big miscommunication between two parties.
Speaker 1:So when I think about men, I just think I want to give them a hug, I want to tell them it's not their fault and that we're like two different species and there needs to be almost like a not a dialogue, but like a translator between these two people, because we see things so differently and women are expecting men to be like women and they're not.
Speaker 1:They're not women. And then you know, and then they're like I have to do everything myself, and they become super hyper-masculinated and super independent. When all men really need to feel valued is that you know they are able to do something for you. Valued is that you know they are able to do something for you. How many women can accept help Like you know, like they're hyper independent? And so what I'm encouraging women to do is become softer and let men show up for you and accept that help and don't get so angry that they didn't notice little details, because their brain isn't wired that way. And we need to have a lot of grace for one another, and when we start to get curious and we start to learn about these things, everything gets a little better, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we're all going through it together now as the world just keeps, you know, these awakening, these explosive moments, these um, but just the willingness to keep showing up to the table, yeah, um, maybe, seek the help you need therapy, um.
Speaker 2:And then, the way I see it, men had to kind of, you know, just the the catch up a little bit from my perspective, cause I felt like I always had a unique perspective as a man because I was always more in touch with those feminine aspects or like doing that, that kind of work and that having that more feminine awareness or balance. So I feel I can feel strange as a man, like alienated almost. So I feel I can feel strange as a man, like alienated almost, um, but hopefully this will become more of a quality of just like upstanding, honorable men that are needed in the society right now to just just speak up, be out in the world, lead, um, not just of like spiritual men that have this awareness or have do this emotional work, um yeah, I think yeah, as men, we do need to sort of rise to the occasion, especially as the world is just getting a little crazy now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this brought me to a good point, and it's actually what I should have said when you first asked me about how men can show up for women. So women won't get out of their masculine hyper-independent energy until, like women, won't be sweet and soft, until they feel safe.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know to do that. So like if we've always had people who just never showed up for us and so we're so used to meeting our own needs as hyper-independent women. It's exhausting to be a boss girl. It's exhausting to be a boss girl. It's exhausting to be a boss lady all the time doing everything by yourself, even though we can sure we can do it. Sure, but it's really nice to be able to take that working hat off and soften into this really sweet woman who doesn't have to do everything and is open, and that, in turn, will allow men to feel safe to let their guard down. So maybe this thing so men need women to be nurturing and sweet, but we won't feel sweet and soft and nurturing until we feel safe enough to do that. So men, being provider, protector, that is something that you can do is to really help her feel safe, to not do it all by herself, to say I am here for you. And when you do, one thing that men could really do is that if you say you're going to do something, really do it. That's how you build trust.
Speaker 1:And trust isn't just. You know there is such thing as unconditional love, but there's no such thing as unconditional trust. You know that's just stupid behavior because it'll just keep. You know, if you say you're going to show up and be there to help her on a certain day time, do it. That'll build trust and she'll soften. That's a really actually a good point. You know a really good point. Let her feel safe that you are going to be there to meet her needs so that she can be soft. You know, and add to that like, don't invalidate her feelings yeah, I think I mean that goes both.
Speaker 2:It can happen, but it goes both ways. But just unconditional positive, like allow them to feel what they feel. Don't don't play like you're in a courtroom and disproving a theory, because that's just childish behavior.
Speaker 1:Well, they're trying. That's pain, because they feel like any sort of confrontation is something they can't handle. So that's why they, like I just mean a lot of men have that pain where they feel accused. You know, usually from a really angry mother, really angry, punishing mom, judgmental mom, will create that sort of behavior so they get defensive right away. That sort of behavior, so they get defensive right away.
Speaker 1:So if I bring up a point to you and say, you know, I was really hurt when you didn't show up on time last night, or you know you really should have called me because I was really counting on you to be there, and they get defensive right away and say, well, you're crazy and you know, it's all your. You know it's all you. You know they're doing that out of a state of defensiveness, because they're terrified of the confrontation. A lot of men, like I would say, because of again, like angry, angry feminine energy in the past, I don't know a lot of men are scared of women. I will absolutely say that there's a lot of men who are scared of women. I'm gonna bring the power back to the women every single freaking time, like if we knew it, if we really knew it, women lead the way on this.
Speaker 2:I have very much. Yeah, I've had that experience too. Like I can relate to that and it's um, sorry, I forgot what I was going to say the, yeah, the. The feeling people have that have dealt with a lot of criticism, don't want to feel condemned. It's like they're like oh my God, I did another thing wrong. I'm such a piece of crap. I'm so worthless. It's like, oh, you forgot to take two trash bags out and we missed the trash. I'm so worthless. I feel like I want to die because I failed you. I feel like I want to die because I failed you.
Speaker 1:And then the women reinforce that. If they're angry at all too, like if you've got someone who's hyper-masculinated as a woman. They're like I told you I should have done it myself. And then you feel even more like it compounds it and remember how I shared that men carry a lot of guilt, shame, pain. I want to take that off of their shoulders as much as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, men are hard on possible. Yeah, you know, men are hard on themselves. Yeah, men are hard, very hard, yeah, and it's, it's uh, cause maybe some females come from that perspective of what they saw in their household growing up of, of correcting and grooming and reprimanding. Enough we were raised by angry mothers too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We were, yeah, like my, my family, there was a lot of yelling, there was a lot of yelling. And so, you know, in my marriage near the end, there was a lot of yelling, you know, and, uh, I felt like that was the only way I could be heard. Um, and then to even get into even more toxic patterns on my on, like that, and then to even get into even more toxic patterns that I pulled off on people was sometimes I even felt that yelling was a form of love and that if we didn't yell, it meant that we must not have chemistry or care about one another. So if everything was actually going well in a relationship, I would actually maybe stir up a little drama just to see and test the person.
Speaker 1:Do you even like me? Do you even like me, do you love me, like and and like really get angry and see if they'll actually fight for me, or, you know, if I threat, you know, and then you've got these dynamics where you've got one side threatening to break up all the time, you know, and that creates a very unsafe environment for men as well, like threatening to break up, threatening to leave, if you, you know, and and I used to have this mentality like oh well, if you really cared, then you'd change your behavior. You know it doesn't really work that way, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, that's such a that can become like a chemical addiction the screaming, the fighting and then the making up after you really do start to think that's your work or definition of love, like that's the definition of a trauma bond, and then that chemical release, the brain gets hooked to it. It's so. It's just such a rabbit hole it's. It can be endless. You know, like all the traumas, the dysfunction, the this, the that, but what we're doing is in so many of us. What we're doing now is really just taking our power back and doing the inner work. Yeah, and I say a lot like I've had the gift of seeing a lot of dysfunctional relationships, being in a lot of dysfunctional relationships around me, to know what I don't want and what I do want and what I would never, ever allow myself to like. Yeah, because it's just hell, you know, and that's like those of us that grew up and just grew up in dysfunctional families. Like I think that is the one silver lining you know you don't want.
Speaker 2:And now this spurred you into breaking the curses, giving your children you know, your eventual children a whole different life. Yeah, in a whole different life. But it's painful work, but we're doing the work, you know.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And I mean like we've just touched on the surface of so many things that we're just coming into awareness with. But, again, what we're responsible for is how we show up. And if we could each, you know, show up and do the work on ourselves, and if everyone did that, we would be in a different place right now.
Speaker 1:So, I just like to focus on on what we can do, you know, and what I can do is is be aware, and I really like what you said about how now you know what you want and what you don't want and what you would never tolerate anymore, and, uh, and that's a huge step. That's a huge step, um, towards, you know, moving into healthier and healthier relationships with people. But it is hard to find them, you know, and it doesn't mean that they don't exist, but we're all growing right now. So just because they don't exist right now doesn't mean they're not going to be there next year, because we're all waking up and we're all becoming conscious and when these conversations, more and more people are willing to have them, we can start to, uh, you know, heal as a collective yeah, it's like where we have been in that incubator period for a while.
Speaker 2:But you know, the work really does pay off, that inner work and yeah, um, I have felt like a lot of people and even myself have been almost like closed for business in terms of like friendships and just the outside world, being able to give your whole energy to relationship. But when it shifts, it shifts and like that gives me faith and hope that the work you do does make a change at the global level. You know, like you're shining your light, you're teaching me things from the female perspective. Um, so you know there's there's a lot to feel hope about, even if, on a daily basis, we feel bombarded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also the more we work on ourselves, like there really is something to the law of attraction Vibrationally we attract, you know what is a vibrational match to us on some level. So I've also done the shadow work where when I have attracted really toxic partners and I didn't like certain traits in them, I was like, well, where are these traits in me? How have I treated people like this? How do I treat myself the same way? Those are really interesting questions. That's shadow work.
Speaker 1:So so I've been cheated on like multiple trillion, trillions of times. I've been cheated on a lot. Every relationship I've ever had has had cheating in it, and so it only can. I clued in recently well, how have I been cheating myself? I, because, you know, and I've been cheating myself by not listening to my intuition, by not acknowledging what I kind of knew deep down. I was really cheating myself, not choosing, like you know, again we get into chemistry and the attraction piece to relationships, but I'm really looking at what is healthy and maybe it doesn't have that hot, cold, push, pull, very intense sexual chemistry piece. Maybe healthy relationships are actually more like a slow cooker rather than a firework, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, thanks, thanks for coming on and telling me a bit about your relationships, the masculine, the feminine. It's a lot. It's a lot. So people can find Erin at her Instagram, erin Grace. I'll leave her username in the bio and is there anything else you'd like to leave them with or any place they can find you.
Speaker 1:Well, for right now, I do have a website where you can book like sessions if you're interested in working with me one-on-one, or I do talk a lot about energy work and spiritual stuff. You know I do have light language as a healing modality as well, so my website for that is lightandquartzcom. So that's where you could find my website. But I'm more accessible on Instagram right now, like Peter said, and yeah, I can interact with you there.
Speaker 2:So I'll leave those links in the description. And I always love watching your light languages and I find them very calming and soothing and activating and I always take something from what you share. So thanks so much for being on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a real pleasure to talk with you. Thanks, Peter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much, erin.