What if there was a memory hook to implementing an innovative mindset?
Christine Wang from the Lufthansa Innovation Hub shares her 5 P's for Innovation: Purpose, Profit, Process, People and Passion. Tune into the latest podcast episode to find out more about the 5P's, about her biggest learnings from Alibaba, and how she sees the future of travel.
What if there was a memory hook to implementing an innovative mindset?
Christine Wang from the Lufthansa Innovation Hub shares her 5 P's for Innovation: Purpose, Profit, Process, People and Passion. Tune into the latest podcast episode to find out more about the 5P's, about her biggest learnings from Alibaba, and how she sees the future of travel.
Christine Wang: (00:02)
How do you infuse change when everything is working the way it does and I can speak probably most closely for perhaps the Lufthansa Group right. And the broader industry that we're in right now and with the pandemic, I think the travel industry is so much impacted and so disrupted. And I think now is really the time where we see that people have the openness for new ideas and new change, because the old way doesn't work anymore.
Christine: (00:35)
Welcome to the Lost in Transformation podcast series dedicated to the complex world of Digital Transformation. We feature guests from large corporations, start-ups, consultancies and more, to shed light on the success factors around Innovation, Transformation, and adjacent topics.
We share first-hand insights and inspiration from experts for all the intrapreneurs, entrepreneurs and anyone curious about Digital Transformation.
Christine: (01:02)
Christine Wang is the Head of Asia at the Lufthansa Innovation Hub, with a background in innovation and corporate venture building with BCG, and Alibaba, amongst others. We talked about the key takeaways from her diverse experience in transformation, explored how we can apply innovation every day to stay ahead of the game, and how the travel industry might be reinvented for the future. We hope you enjoy this episode.
Christine: (01:29)
Hey Christine, I'm really happy to have you here as a guest on our podcast on "Lost in Transformation", and thanks so much for joining . So, you are the head of Asia at the Lufthansa Innovation Hub here in Singapore, also with an extensive background in the innovation space and in corporate venture building as well. And today we'd like to know more about your learnings from your experience in leading global innovation labs, also building startups for big corporates and much more, but to start off, we'd like to learn more about yourself and your background in general. Basically the journey that led you to where you are today. Could you maybe tell us more about that?
Christine Wang: (02:07)
Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me also. So, I mean, I've always been in innovation for the last 11, 12 years. I actually started out as a research in open innovation and was always very intrigued by understanding how corporates can actually innovate and really absorb new ideas from the market. From there, I actually went into corporate venturing. So, with BCG digital ventures, we built quite a few startups for corporate clients. Then I went out to actually become an entrepreneur myself. So, I was heading a venture building company and helped people especially to get into the Chinese market and that market potential. So. within that type of role, I was also able to have a stint at actually see how Alibaba actually operates from the inside. And then, that's my journey actually, to Singapore to head the Lufthansa Innovation Hub.
Christine: (03:10)
Super interesting. Also your multicultural background and experience in various fields. Really cool. And now you're leading the Lufthansa Innovation Hub here in Asia, as you were mentioning a global innovation lab, also driving the digital future. And when the Innovation Hub just started, could you tell us a bit about the situation that perhaps triggered that change full of handset, that it felt like it needed a hub to drive innovation even further and really focus on that? Was there like a specific situation before that the company saw as a catalyst for change?
Christine Wang: (03:44)
I think that's a really good question. I mean, the Lufthansa Innovation Hub has been around for the last 5 years. It was founded in Berlin and now we have two offices in Berlin and Singapore, and the main mandate is really to connect them with the Lufthansa Group, the broader travel and tech ecosystem. When we talk about travel mobility, take what we mean is the journey of a trouble or really from when they need the house to their destinations and all the different types of services that that user would actually take from the ride handling service to then, you know, taking the plane to having an alternative housing. So, not staying in a hotel, but perhaps in a co-living space. So, to various different services that touch upon a life of a traveler. So, that's what we mean when we talk about travel and mobility tech, and the reason why we've actually built Lufthansa Innovation Hub was in part, because we saw quite a lot of development within the market of all these different new players, not only startups, but also incumbents, academia, VC community, all these different stakeholders actually getting into the space.
So, like a lot of different other corporates I see there was this appetite and the foresight to invest into the future and into travel and mobility, and really stay ahead of the game.
Christine: (05:11)
Super interesting. How you're also managing to bring the different stakeholders together with the Hub. And also, as you mentioned, investing into the future, I think that's really exciting. So, you've been a part of a global innovation lab and driving the digital future too, and from what you've seen and from your experience, is there anything where you would say this is like one specific challenge that a lot of companies struggle with, that actually keeps them from transforming?
Christine Wang: (05:38)
I think there are a lot of different challenges to be honest. Definitely, it's a cultural challenge. How do you infuse change when everything is working the way it does and I can speak probably most closely for the Lufthansa Group, right. And the broader industry that we're in right now and with the pandemic, I think the travel industry is so much impacted and so disrupted. And I think now is really the time where we see that people have the openness for new ideas and new change, because the old way doesn't work anymore. And at this point in time, we also don't know whether travel will come back in the way we're used to. Right. So, for example, if I just take this as traveling, I think a lot of people now connect over video conferencing tools. So, the question is, will we actually travel the same way again for business as we hopefully ease out of the pandemic?
Christine: (06:37)
Right. So, that's basically also like one of the tips that you can tell people on how to overcome that challenge to basically like now we have the time to really rethink and see challenges as perhaps opportunities.
Christine Wang: (06:52)
I think that that's part of it, right? Like I think now you see the openness, because you see the industry being disrupted, but of course you don't want to get to that point in time, right? You want to actually start to innovate beforehand. So, you always have to have this type of like, almost change or slash startup or entrepreneurial mindset. I think that is something that a lot of corporates struggle with, because typically corporates become these babies. They were really good in doing one thing or focusing on the core business and that core businesses usually after a normal period of time has become this cash cow. So, of course the question is like, why do you need to change if everything is perfect, but then you see industries such as for example, the travel industry, then all of a sudden you have a pandemic, like a black Swan event and nothing is the way it was before.
Christine: (07:45)
Right. I think that's a really interesting takeaway to also innovate beforehand and not only, you know, when the time is coming and start with an entrepreneurial mindset, I think that's a really great hands-on tips. And do you perhaps have an example of how you helped companies with their struggles in moving transformation forward as well? Could be from the Lufthansa time or from another part?
Christine Wang: (08:09)
I mean, I think there were multiple examples in my past, as a venture builder, looking at different types of value propositions or different types of opportunities. I think in general, one field that I was working most in was definitely to try to become or get closer to the end consumer. So, think of industries such as the automotive industry or the insurance industry, typically you have a middleman in between the corporate and the end users. So, for example, as an insurance company, you don't directly necessarily directly sell to their end consumer, but you actually have an agent in between that actually helps to broker insurance deals. On the automotive side, you also have something similar where you would actually purchase a car, not directly from BMW, but you would actually go to a dealer or broker. So, a lot of these different projects that I've been doing in the past have really focused on, okay, how can this corporate actually get to know their end consumer better?
Christine Wang: (09:14)
And why is that relevant? It's relevant, because of course the consumers becomes so much more digitized. There's a huge opportunity to connect with them more directly and to really create better value propositions for these end consumers. So, I think there are 2 very interesting insights or perhaps learnings from that. One is, do you strive for a strategy where you include that middleman and you try to really create a win-win situation? Or do you try to exclude that middleman or you just say kind of direct, you hop over that broker and you really try to go to somebody's proposition and service with a direct to consumer. And that's one insight or one interesting question. I think the second one, which I've observed quite a bit in China is of course the ease with how corporates can actually connect with consumers, right? Everyone is on WeChat, everyone just directly chats with the customer service or the corporate directly over WeChat. And I think that's also very interesting to take away to think about, okay, how could you leverage these types of tools or digital behaviors that you see in China and perhaps they are a little bit, you know, foresighting how the Western world could also look like and apply that to your own business.
Christine: (10:35)
Right. Super important point. And I think not that easy sometimes to get right, to get closer to the end consumer in order to drive transformation forward. And I like the learnings you just mentioned. So, you already mentioned from your time in China, maybe if we wind back to a couple of years ago to your time with Alibaba, where you were the global leadership associate in China, you were already part of a really fast changing environment, not just within China as a market, but also with the company. And what would you say is your biggest takeaway from an environment where basically everyday innovation is the norm in order to not fall behind?
Christine Wang: (11:13)
Maybe I break this question into 2 parts. I think the first is to realize how fast paced China is. And I want to shed a little bit of color on that. The first thing is like, especially in the technology and startup scene in China, there's this like "9-9-6" world, which is essentially people working from 9 to 9, so 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM, six days a week. So, this is how hard working people are to really stay ahead of the game. I think the second thing that's very important to understand is that data is really hard to come by. And I say that from a perspective, where, for example, if you were to do digital marketing, you don't have tools such as Facebook or Google where you can like advertise. And also a lot of statistics don't really work, because you don't know whether the data sources are correct or like whether numbers are fudged.
Christine Wang: (12:06)
Why do I say that? Why do I think it's important? It's important, because it's really tremendously hard to predict the future in China and how, because essentially overnight these can change so dramatically. So, I think in China, in order to survive as a company, you always have to innovate. Like you always have to sort of, you cannot just say, you know, lay back and enjoy the cash costs for the next 10 years. Like 10 years was such a long, long time in China. So, what I've perceived in Alibaba is the fact that there's no such innovation unit where, you know, separate fund, like the core, people tried to come up with new stuff. No, it's part of the DNA and they live it through failures. So, for example, if you want to try a new value proposition with the Chinese market, typically five different teams from five different views would actually work on the same problems.
Christine Wang: (13:04)
And the one that actually succeed in finding the solution would then get all the resources allocated. So, the idea is a set of like maybe perhaps what you see in the Western world more to really plan out things, you know, 1 to 3 years ahead to use data, to really make judgements and hypotheses. What you see in a Chinese context is that people actually just go out and test stuff much quicker. And based on that learning, they making decision based on that learning there, they are improving the value proposition to the extent that, you know. In the case of Ali Baba, you know, you would then get all the different resources you need and really bundle resources once you figure it out the problem.
Christine: (13:49)
These are super interesting examples also to know how hardworking they actually are to stay ahead. Are there any specific tips where you say, okay, these are actually worth implementing into our everyday work life? Or is there anything you're already doing in your job at the moment where you're saying, okay, in order to innovate every day or to stay ahead, this really makes sense?
Christine Wang: (14:13)
I think maybe 2 tips, I think never assume you have the answers - definitely one, right. So, I think, you know, being both in corporate and in the startup environment, and of course that mindset is very different and we've talked about it before. But I think also, maybe from my consulting background, I always come up with hypothesis that I then test with the market. But I do think that especially in more dynamic markets, maybe that the ones that we perceive here in Southeast Asia or Asia in general, it's always good to assume that we don't know the answer and then we need to test with the market. I think that is, like, totally key. So, any new ideas that we want to really see whether it has fruition, I wouldn't do a lot of desktop research. To be honest, I would actually just go out in the market. I really test with different methods, surveys, and graphic research, or getting a prototype out to the consumers.
Christine: (15:14)
I think these are really great tips. I think we kind of have to remind ourselves every now and then to kind of go in with a beginner's mindset. And as you said, never assume to have the right answer right away and to just go out and test. So yeah, I think this is something definitely to bear in mind and also great hands-on tips. And if we now switch the focus a bit next to your career steps in the innovation space, you also have quite a background in the corporate venture building space that goes hand-in-hand perhaps, but with a background in building corporate ventures, building startups, why would you say this is actually important in general? Or would you say that in general? Why do you think more and more companies are looking at it?
Christine Wang: (15:59)
I think as I said earlier with, and with your question around with constant innovation happened, why do we need it again? It comes back to the point of disruption of industries, right? And I think we've seen a couple of those in different various industries. So, for example, in the banking industry, all of a sudden you had all these startups in FinTech popping up, doing payments way better than a retail banking bank, right? So, you see these shifts of technologies or you see these shifts in industry fueled by technology and digitization. So, the reason why corporates typically look for, or have an innovation hub or lab is because of that type of precursor and foresight. And I think, I mean, just to give you an example, yesterday I was just having dinner with a friend and she actually works in the media space and the media specific thing really goes on undergoes these type of shifts as we speak.
Christine Wang: (16:59)
So, just imagine you are an MTV. I mean, nobody really watches TV these days, everything is like on your laptop or your device. And more importantly, you also, you have Netflix being such a disruptor in the industry. So, all of a sudden, an MTV needs to think about other business models and other business or revenue streams, where are you from like making money off ATV channel to maybe merchandising or licensing content. So, I think this is really the reason why you cannot stop innovating and why a lot of corporates have decided, okay, it is worth the money and the investment and the time to really have these, you know, outlookers or precursors within the company, so basically in it.
Christine: (17:48)
Basically goes in line with what you said also what you learned from your time in China with Alibaba in order to stay ahead. So, that might be one of the big benefits into this. On the other hand, what are perhaps some of the pitfalls that companies might encounter or that they should be aware of when looking into corporate venture building?
Christine Wang: (18:10)
I think in general, the question always arises, which is, what is the purpose of such an innovation unit, right? And the challenge is definitely to convince the CFO that this is something worth having. And I think the way to like perceive that one is kind of like having a strategy unit, because you want to know how the future is going to pan out and how you're supposed to position yourself. And so likewise, I think innovation labs and hubs are serving that type of purpose of really bringing that type of foresight. So, of course the challenge is like, how do you justify investments into these type of innovation units? And I think one of the biggest challenges is to really evaluate and measure value coming out of these innovation hubs and labs, you know, and there are different ways to actually measure it.
Christine Wang: (19:01)
So, for example, if you're really building ventures, of course you can measure how many ventures you have actually built, within a year. And then depending on the type of structuring of the ventures, of course you could also measure the commercial value or the valuation of these companies, depending on whether there are spin-offs. I think there's a lot of strategic value with having these type of innovation units. And of course it's a matter of definition of how you define strategic value for a company. But I do think that that is something that is typically a huge challenge. Like how do you track and how do you measure success?
Christine: (19:38)
I liked that you already pointed out that it's the point of basically measuring the value of the innovation, perhaps, because I think this is something that's not that straightforward. And as you mentioned also to get the leadership onboard, very important point here.
And from your point of view, having a lot of experience in the field already, how mature, what you say is the Asia market in terms of corporate venture building to date? Is it something that lots of companies are already doing or something that's not that widespread as we think, perhaps?
Christine Wang: (20:13)
I think it depends on the Asian market, right? I mean, now that we're here in Singapore and I'm definitely, certainly I am in the space, I feel like there's a lot of innovation labs and units and so forth. Definitely if I were to compare different geographies and I've actually lived like, for example, in New York and Berlin, London, Paris, I do feel that perhaps it feels a little bit more mature in the Western world than maybe in Asia.
Christine: (20:40)
So, you were already mentioning earlier as well, so we keep hearing about the people side a lot in transformation. And also you mentioned the cultural challenge, and from your experience in building startups for corporates and leading open innovation, what would you say is helpful in making corporates adopt an innovative mindset and basically foster innovation in a more regulated environment?
Christine Wang: (21:05)
Sure. So it's interesting. I've actually met a couple of innovation units and I wasn't sure whether they do what they were exactly doing. I felt like these units were trying to still figure out their DNA, their purpose, et cetera, but in general, I think my takeaway, and if I may, I typically look at 5 things or 5 P's for just easier remembering, I think about Purpose, Profit Process, People and Passion.
Now, let me just explain what I mean by those. So, when I think about Purpose, I think about what does corporate actually want to achieve? What is the purpose of this innovation unit? And when I talk about purpose, is it more about technology scouting? Is it incremental innovation people are looking for? Is it building new businesses and venture building. I think that's tremendously important to align with the group CFO, the innovation unit, whoever it is leading this innovation unit to be really clear on what the purpose of this unit is.
Christine Wang: (22:09)
I think that's really important. I think the Profit one again, I think to me, this is really how does this innovation unit makes venue? Is it profit? Is it, I mean, it could be profit could be also a strategic value, could be commercial value. Does it need to move to actually generate value whatsoever? Or is it maybe just an information center?
I think Processes are super important to think about like, how do you actually get new ideas funneled into this innovation unit and how does it interact with the corporate? And I think that's tremendously important. There are different models. I mean, there are some where the used chime and money and then the innovation unit, and innovates for that particular BU or their particular problems to also more separate versions or even M&A and VC type of models. But it's also really clear, important to really get that straight.
Christine Wang: (23:04)
I think now coming a bit more to your question around innovation mindset as definitely the People, the right people are key, because if you only take people from the corporate world from that particular corporate company, you're not going to experience that change. So, it's almost like you have to look out into the market and really attract new type of talents and find a good model for these type of tools to come together and work together.
Because at the end of the day, the one of the key success factors for corporate innovation to work is that you have a model where people work hand in hand and you have those skills at the table, the corporate side, which knows a lot about the power dynamics within the corporate, but also at the same time, knows about all the different corporate SSU could leverage. And then on the other hand, having the type of fresh new perspective from the market that I think is important.
And last, but not least, I think Passion to me is really more standing for the culture. Like what is the type of culture you can create and want to create within that innovation unit. But also beyond that, like how does this innovation unit actually influence the corporate as a whole company? So to me, those are the 5 most important things of how corporates can adopt an innovation mindset or foster innovation through an innovation type of unit.
Christine: (24:28)
Super nice. I really liked the 5 P's. I think that's something easy to remember and to keep in mind and also that it encompasses Passion and the People's side. And it's basically like a holistic view of getting an innovative mindset. I really like that.
And with regards to the first part, the purpose part, as you already mentioned earlier, as well, it's oftentimes quite hard to get leadership on board of the innovation initiatives. Do you perhaps have an example of a situation like this where you also faced resistance and driving innovation, because it required a change? Do you perhaps have a tip of overcoming it?
Christine Wang: (25:09)
I do believe that innovation needs to be driven from the very top if that innovation unit or that innovation effort is like, if it sits on marketing or like, you know, not really highly visible or within the group of a corporation, then I think it's really hard to be very successful, because you don't have the attention and you don't have the backing. So, definitely my opinion, and I think from my earlier research in open innovation, it needs to sit with either the CEO or within the group executive level.
Christine: (25:44)
That definitely makes sense. Super important point. And you were mentioning a lot of your learnings along the road already, but now looking back, what would you say is your biggest learning, or maybe are your biggest learnings? Anything that you'd like to especially highlight that we didn't cover?
Christine Wang: (26:03)
So, fundamentally, I believe there's a lot of good coming out of a corporate innovation effort. I think it is tremendously important to stay ahead and there are different ways to do it. There's long way where you can, or you are capable of infusing that innovation mindset within the core business. And I do think that that becomes more important, the more digitized you become, the faster the world is spinning, but also there are different models where corporates decide to have separate innovation units of different types of integration if you want. So overall, I do believe that it's the right way forward. I think it is always a challenge to execute for the different reasons that we've already spoken about. So, I think one thing that is so, so important here is definitely that, because at the end of the day, it's really about, okay, do you have the right processes and people in place?
Christine Wang: (27:02)
And I think the people pod is also super important, because if you do decide to have people from the market join you, how do you keep these people? Because typically the type of people you would hire other ones that really want to see impact through and also really quickly. So, if corporate politics comes into the way of that, then of course you don't really innovate. And you also scare way really important and really valuable. So, I would say that that is like one of the biggest things, like how do you a keep the balance of like making sure that the innovation is still part of the corporate, but at the same time and giving enough freedom for these people to really do their job. And that is to have impact and build great new ideas and value propositions for the [...] and for the future.
Christine: (27:54)
So basically again, highlighting how important the people part actually is to basically make that innovation and transformation happened within the company. I really liked that. And it's super inspiring to hear also about like the initiatives that you were mentioning in driving innovation forward, but at the same time, we're also equally interested in anything that perhaps didn't work out the way you imagined.
Do you recall any mistakes you made along the way, that you'd like to share? Anything you learned from that you can share with us?
Christine Wang: (28:29)
Maybe not mistakes, but I think what I've also seen, the corporate innovation space is where there might be curiosity, but not necessarily commitment. So, as an example, we did a project or venture initiative around sustainability. That was, when I was building corporate ventures for clients. So, the idea was to really be completely out of the core business. So, the core business was about B2B. It was about transportation. And then all of a sudden they were really interested in B2C and in the sustainability space and also in a different job that they were strong in. So, to be honest, there were a lot of different things coming together that were really difficult to execute on. So, we did our research, we talked to the market, we came up with a better proposition, something that worked, really fit well with the local market, but then it was shut down by the corporate of course, because it was just so, so far away from the core, right.
Christine Wang: (29:32)
And also that particular case, there wasn't really anything that we could leverage from an asset point of view. Why should this particular corporate actually do this particular better proposition? If the business model is so different, right. We talk about B2B versus B2C, and we talk about a different geography where the corporate time wasn't so strong and we talk about a completely different field, which was beyond the industry that they were operating. So, I think that to me is in learning where it was probably a mistake to actually frame this scope of this way. And because at the end of the day, it's just a waste of resources, because the commitment wasn't there. And I think at the end of the day, it's not really great for anyone work for the [...].
Christine: (30:25)
Yeah, true. I think that's definitely something super important to mention as well. Thanks for bringing up the commitment part. We obviously want to bring value out of this and not just try something for the sake of trying, but really frame the scope of work the right way and be committed. That's super interesting.
Now, looking at the future, is there anything that you're especially looking forward to? Anything in the field that you're in or in general that's next and that's exciting you?
Christine Wang: (30:56)
I mean, the space I'm in right now is tremendously interesting and the airline industry or the travel industry as a whole has been so impacted by the pandemic, but I look at it as a chance to really reinvent the industry. And it's been an issue that hasn't really seen a lot of innovation necessarily from a technology standpoint. Right. We're going to be teleporting ourselves from A to B tomorrow to see, you know, how is going to be, the new thing in the future. How are we actually going to travel? How can we make travel much easier? Right. Like, you know, just imagine if we would go to, I haven't been to Sri Lanka, but if I were to go, I don't have friends in Sri Lanka. So, I would have to somehow find the right information for this stuff to do.
Christine Wang: (31:50)
And I find that process still very, very cumbersome and, you know, will there be a different way to travel in the future? I think is a very interesting question that I'm really looking forward to more. I think also in general, I'm super passionate when it comes to innovation and infusing you different types of perspectives and learnings into corporates. I'm always happy to talk to people about that, just to have a conversation, because I think if I were to look into the future and thinking about like success factors, I think what really helps me to strive within the innovation space is to be exposed to a lot of different industries and a lot of different activities and hobbies. I'm actually a musician. I play the violin, I paint, I did photography and this really helps me not be boxed in.
Christine Wang: (32:40)
And be to really, you know, see different types of industries, such as, for example, in China, or to bring inspiration to some other interesting innovation colleagues, et cetera. So, I think that is also super important just to be broad and be open-minded and also look into other industries and other different fields to really get inspired.
Christine: (33:08)
Cool. That's a super interesting outlook and also super exciting to hear about your drive and passion about innovation and basically how your exposure to different industries has helped you become the person you are today. I really liked the fact that you mentioned also that basically in your position, now you have the chance to reinvent the industry.
And it's also exciting to see how travel will evolve in the coming years.
Christine, thank you so much for sharing your journey on innovation and corporate venture building with us. And it's also very inspiring to hear about your learnings. It's been a real pleasure and I hope our listeners can take away some helpful tips as well. And thank you again.
Christine Wang: (33:53)
Thank you so much.
Christine: (33:56)
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