"I believe that the future no longer belongs to one or the other. I think the future belongs to both working together." This episode features Rachele Focardi, leading expert on Generational Diversity and the founder of XYZ @ Work, as she refers to both young and old talent working together. Tune in to learn how to drive transformation by bridging the generational divide, how to spark innovation by creating multi-generational teams at the workplace, and to hear more about Rachele's outlook on the future of work.
"I believe that the future no longer belongs to one or the other. I think the future belongs to both working together." This episode features Rachele Focardi, leading expert on Generational Diversity and the founder of XYZ @ Work, as she refers to both young and old talent working together. Tune in to learn how to drive transformation by bridging the generational divide, how to spark innovation by creating multi-generational teams at the workplace, and to hear more about Rachele's outlook on the future of work.
Rachele: (00:02)
There's been too much polarization, I think, in our society. And we saw that reflected into the workplace where you had really the young versus the old, the traditional versus new age mindset, and so on and so forth. And, you know, while obviously, whatever has been done up until now has led us to where we are today. I believe that the future no longer belongs to one or the other. I think the future belongs to both working together.
Christine: (00:29)
Welcome to the Lost in Transformation podcast series dedicated to the complex world of Digital Transformation. We feature guests from large corporations, start-ups, consultancies and more, to shed light on the success factors around Innovation, Transformation, and adjacent topics.
We share first-hand insights and inspiration from experts for all the intrapreneurs, entrepreneurs, and anyone curious about Digital Transformation.
Christine: (00:58)
Hi, I’m Christine, the Marketing Manager at MING Labs, and today, I’m joined by Rachele Focardi, a leading expert on Generational Diversity and the founder of XYZ @ Work, where she provides services to help organizations adapt to the needs of new generations, and to empower future leaders to drive positive change. She explains first-hand how to drive transformation by bridging the generational divide, and shares her outlook on the future of work. We hope you enjoy this episode!
Christine: (01:31)
Hi Rachele. I'm very excited to have you on the podcast today, on Lost in Transformation. And thank you so much for taking the time today. You are the founder of XYZ @ Work and also a thought leader in terms of the multi-generational workforce and also in the future of work and so much more. So you have a very exciting background, a very exciting field of expertise, which we're going to dive deeper into in this episode. And to begin with, I'd like to learn more about yourself first. Could you share more about your background and your experience, basically everything that brought you to where you are today?
Rachele: (02:06)
Absolutely. Thank you for having me here. It's really a pleasure. So, you know, as you mentioned, my passion today lies in multi-generational workforce dynamics. I'm originally from Italy and I spent my professional life between the United States Europe and now have been in Asia for the last 11 years. And for the past 18 years, I have kind of spearheaded the employer branding movement globally advocating that organizations incorporate employer branding into workforce planning. So basically, you know, how do we change our employer value proposition? How do we change ourselves as organizations to attract and be able to retain the next generation of talent? And so I've been supporting them with employer brand campaigns, for a value proposition development for many, many years. And during this experience, I had the opportunity to get to know and understand the challenges of a multi-generational workforce. And so that has become my passion over the last few years to help organizations decode these dynamics and foster a culture of intergenerational collaborations. And I recently published a book "Reframing Generational Stereotypes" which aims at doing exactly that.
Christine: (03:19)
Super interesting to also hear about your book, which you're also like creating basically based on your performance, based on your experience that you're having in the field. I think that's a super interesting path. So with XYZ @ Work, now you're also helping clients from an organizational transformation perspective, setting them up for success when it comes to the future of work, employee branding, and so forth, what you were just mentioning. Could you perhaps explain a bit how things used to work for most of your clients before they approach you for support with our transformation? Basically, how does their world usually look like when you come in?
Rachele: (03:56)
Absolutely. And I think in order to answer this question, we kind of need to go back in history a little bit to understand, you know, what was the world like before? And the reality is that if we think, you know, 15, 20 years back older generations were the ones that were running organizations. Older generations were the ones that were running the world. So young people, you know, especially in the workplace were considered rookies, you know, the ones that have nothing to contribute to, that are just expected to basically follow older leaders around, learn as much as they can work, mostly on menial tasks. And only after they have been, you know, sufficiently indoctrinated by the older generations, then they were seen as having something that they could contribute to. I know this was definitely an experience for me when I graduated from university in the United States and I started my career in Italy working for an advertising agency.
Rachele: (04:49)
I mean, I was a young talent, you know, full of drive, full of ambition. I wanted to learn, I wanted to prove myself. And I found myself working in an organization where basically the expectation was that I keep my head low, you know, follow strict orders, which usually involve working on extremely menial tasks. I spent my days typing emails and making photocopies and doing coffee or lunch runs. And when I went to my boss and I actually asked her please, to make me be a part of an internal meeting between the accounts team and the creative group, just so that I could learn something about the industry that I wanted to grow and build a career. And I was actually called in by HR. And I was told that I was overstepping my boundaries, that I was young, that, you know, I should follow the chain of command, that there was no place for me to come in and expect to have a seat at the table, even if it meant being a fly on the wall.
Rachele: (05:41)
And that was, unfortunately, the reality for many of us back then. I was reprimanded very often for being found, chatting with someone as I was making coffee, when they were getting the coffee from the coffee machine, and reminded that this was work. And it wasn't a place where why should socialize and that I was not paid to chit chats. And if I was caught doing that again, I would likely lose my job. So the reality is that if we look at the workplace before there was really no place for the younger generations to inject their perspective then. That was a pity of course. And so work ended up being something that most of us suffered through because we just didn't see the perspective of being able to really contribute until we had, as I said, sufficiently paid our dues. And then, of course, you know, all this changed after the millennials entered the workforce.
Rachele: (06:32)
And we see that this is a new generation that came in. And I remember in 2005, 2006, I was working for an employer branding company. And I was supporting organizations and understanding how to transform their environments, to be able to attract the new generations. And at the time, you know, they were predominantly going on 10% position, the organization as a prestigious company where, you know, young talent could come in and as long as they followed the rules and they climbed the corporate ladder, they would get good pay and they would eventually be reached leadership positions. It didn't really matter if the company was great. If you would have work-life balance, if you would have flexibility, if you would be able to drive impact, you know, people would choose jobs back then based on whether these jobs were prestigious. Because like I said, work was something that you had to suffer through anyways, might as well be a great job, right?
Rachele: (07:22)
And then what happened is you had an entirely new generation that rose from nowhere. And I think nobody really expected millennials to drive as much of a transformation as they did. Millennials came out of universities and started saying, you know what? Young people matter, young people have interesting things to say, young people have the ability to contribute. Young people can and should build businesses. Then, of course, you know, out of the sand, if you think about the disappointment of the genetics service with a dot-com crash, the millennials, so Google rise, you know, from these ashes. And they said, see, this is a company that was started by students, by young in the garage and look at it now, you know, not only it's a big, strong company that is taking over the world but has the strength of an IPO. And this was because of young talent.
Rachele: (08:14)
And this was because of young talent. So millennials rose out of nowhere and started expecting a transformation at work. They started wanting work to be more than just the way to make a living, but more part of who they are. They started, you know, normalizing taboos topics like, you know, mental health and sexual orientation. They started to say, you know, diversity is our strength. So we don't want to hide who we are. We want to bring ourselves to work for who we are. We want our bosses not to be intimidating figures, but be people mentors that we can learn from. And we want our work to have meaning. And they were uncompromising. I mean, I remember working with many of them and helping organizations understand how to bring the students in. And even the ones were [...], they had no intention of selling their souls to corporates. And then 2008 came.
Rachele: (09:03)
And all of this kind of cemented their belief that there should be more to life. Many of them saw their parents who put their lives on hold for years, lose their job and all their savings without the opportunity to follow up on any of those[...]. And then on top of that, lose their jobs. And they started saying, you know what? This is the ultimate proof that experiences are more important than the money that living life or you have life is more important than putting it off to a later date. And that's it. And they started demanding this workplace revolution. And organizations at the time were struggling with this need to win this war for talent, which McKinsey had identified as a strategic business imperative. And so what they did is they immediately started this transformation. They immediately started changing the working environment. They needed to start to provide that workplace balance.
Rachele: (09:50)
They needed to start to allow talent on campus, to interview in [...], as opposed to in suits, and show people that they could bring themselves to work. And this was actually a fantastic transformation. If we think about it now, 15 years later, the workplace is a much better place for all of us today than it was back then. What happened is that in an effort to kind of attract these new generations and get them as talents available, organizations transformed, but failed to explain to the existing generations in the workplace, why these changes were necessary. And so what happened is that to some extent, these millennials were shoved down people's throats. I mean, all of a sudden leaders were told that what they'd known about leadership has to change that all of a sudden, they need to be a lot more lenient, a lot more understanding. They have to become the better coaches they have to become, you know, the understanding, they need to give all this feedback that they weren't used to giving, and all this flexibility and empower millennials and give them a seat on the table.
Rachele: (10:50)
And that brought a lot of the older generation, including my own, I'm a gen X-er, the wrong way. And so the result of all of that was an inability for organizations to really get these generations to collaborate. And as we see today that led to a whole series of negative stereotypes where the younger generations called the baby boomers, you know, OK boomers, and dismiss what they see as touch opinions and obsolete ideas. And likewise, you know, the boomers blame the millennials for being titled or, for these strawberries and easily bruised and so on, so forth. And so what that happened is, you know, while the millennials actually drove a very positive revolution in the workplace that benefited every generation, the generations that were already there weren't involved enough. Nothing was done to assure that there was some level of generational understanding between those that were in the workplace and those that were coming in, and this is a pity because I think it really slowed down progress and innovation on many levels. And, it led to a series of undeniable, intergenerational conflicts, which are very much plaguing organizations up to this day.
Christine: (12:02)
That's really inspiring to hear also, I think I can see the connection between your own experience. You know, you come out of university then starting in basically your work journey and then seeing, okay, there's actually that gap and then really making this a journey that you want to change and you see so much change happening in the workforce as well. So I think that's really inspiring to hear and how you're also helping now organizations that are often struggling with, you know, in terms of their teams and from an employer brand and kind of view. And you were also already talking about, you know, millennials coming in, kind of shaking things up. What would you say often serves as the catalyst for change for your clients to then reach out to, you know, an external consultant or an expert like yourself? What do you usually see as the problem with the status quo that makes your clients then want to tackle it?
Rachele: (12:54)
Well, I think, you know, the catalyst and the urgency to start addressing this topic comes from a number of things. So the first thing obviously is shifting demographic trends. All of a sudden organizations are struggling because when you look at the world, you see that there are certain markets, certain countries where you have an aging population, other countries where you have predominantly a young population. And so organizations need to start to understand how to address these demographic issues in the workplace. But really the key catalyst was a couple of things. Number one is you have baby boomers and traditionalists now that are working well past the age of retirement. And also at the same time, you have generation Z coming into the workplace. So this means a number of things. Number one is you have for the first time in history, up to five generations working alongside each other, you still have many traditionalists, you know, people in their seventies that are still very active and going strong.
Rachele: (13:55)
You have baby boomers, obviously, that are delaying their retirement and staying into the workforce way more than any other generation prior. You have your gen X, you have your millennials, and now you have an entirely new generation coming into the workforce. And I think gen Z is actually the main catalyst for this change. Gen Z, even though they're often bunched with millennials in organizations, often, if you look at gen Z and say, okay, you know, they're both digital natives, they're all, you know, young generations, you know, they're relatively similar. In reality, gen Z is very, very different. Gen Z is a generation that is going to drive a significant transformation. While with the millennials, that transformation was linked to the working environment and transforming the workplace from a dreadful place to be to a place that allows you to kind of extend your passions into the work that you do.
Rachele: (14:48)
So millennials drove fundamentally that was linked to the working environment. Generation Z is demanding a different type of change. And that change is linked to purpose. And this is a generation that is genuinely terrified about the future of our planet. They are genuinely concerned about the fact that if we don't do something now we will risk not having a planet to live for their children. They are extremely concerned about the fact that they don't believe organizations are doing enough to contribute, to making the world a better place. And actually, they don't believe in corporate social responsibility. They think it's just a big tax-deductible with big PR upsides, and they really want to be able to change the world single-handedly. In fact, this new generation is coming in saying, I don't want to work for corporate. I want to work for organizations because you know what?
Rachele: (15:42)
I don't believe that I can make the change that I need to make in order to save the world by working for someone else. The only way for me to start my own company. And in fact, a lot of studies are showing that up to 89% of gen Z in certain countries like Indonesia, for example, but an average of 69% globally want to start their own company instead of working for an organization because they see it as the only way to change things, to change and shape a better world single-handedly. And the ones that do choose to join the corporate sector, want to work for organizations that allow them to make significant impact and contributions in a very short period of time. So what that means, if you think about it from a multi-generational workforce perspective, is that if organizations want to be able to attract the next generation of talent, and it won't be enough to just have a strong employer brand, they're going to need to be able to ensure that as these new generations come into the workforce, they are fully embraced that they are going to encounter their multi-generational colleagues, baby boomers, traditionalist, gen Xers, and millennials who will actually be willing to embrace them, to empower them, to support them and to guide them, to drive the change that they need.
Rachele: (16:58)
And for them, this is significant. I mean, we see them even as consumers, they literally have the power to bankrupt companies by choosing not to buy their products. 5% of gen Z actually say that they would be willing to stop buying products from a company that doesn't share the same values. So this is a generation that is extremely impactful, right? And on top of that, if we look at the ultimate challenge that organizations are facing, which is the skills gap is becoming very difficult for companies to attract the skills that they need. And it's going to be absolutely devastating for them to recruit them when not being able to retain that. So when it comes to these new generations, being able to retain them means being able to bring them into an environment that embraces generational differences. So that's the first thing. And I think that all of us are going to benefit from that because this generation is extremely committed to changing the world.
Rachele: (17:49)
The second thing, but I think is extremely important is that the complexity of the current times, including digitalization and the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic, means that organizations are likely to face challenges that cannot be addressed through the traditional and hierarchical way of conducting business. So for companies being able to combine the drive, resilience, and social mindedness of today's youth with a broad range of skills and experience of senior employees will really mean the difference between surviving and prospering. Future leaders will be expected to create a culture that embraces generational differences and fosters collaborative decision-making, which is basically that each generation has an equal voice, brings unique capabilities and skillsets to the table, and deploys them towards a shared vision. This will become really critical in order for businesses to thrive in the world of work, secure a wide range of skills, experiences, and perspectives, and of course, drive innovation. So this is where organizations now are realizing that ignoring the needs of a multi-generational workforce is no longer an option because of the success of their business. And I believe very strongly success of our society will come from intergenerational collaboration. And for companies, it will be about unleashing the power of their human capital through intergenerational collaboration.
Christine: (19:10)
I really like how you kind of bridge it now, too. Okay, like driving innovation and making companies successful and actually how this plays a very, very important part. Being able to not just recruit important and very talented people, but actually, retain them as well. I think that's super important. And I think a lot of companies out there perhaps for them, you know, employer branding might be a thing that's on the agenda, but not really be seeing, okay, there's so much to be done. There's so much that can actually benefit the company in terms of transformation, innovation, and so on. I think it's really interesting to hear it from that perspective. Okay, what are actually the catalyst for change there? And, you're obviously an expert in the field also with XYZ @ Work. I think you're doing a lot of great work there. If we are kind of taking a step back and just looking at the overall purpose of the journey with your work, what would you say? Would that be?
Rachele: (20:07)
I think the purpose of my journey is fundamentally this: I came to terms with the fact that you know, my generation is not going to be the one to save the world, but I have very, very strong faith in this new generation. I mean, the more I talk to these kids, the more I realized that they really are not the strawberries that they are often labeled to be. They're actually extremely resilient. They were living in one of the times of greatest complexity that we've ever experienced or seen in history. And they are extremely concerned about whether our world, our society, as we know, will be able to continue. So I believe that their aim is good and they will drive a lot of incredible changes in society. The problem though is that if they join organizations the same way that millennials join organizations, which means without understanding their multi-generational colleagues, without the knowledge or the awareness of who else they're going to encounter in the workplace. And what are the forces that shaped the mindsets, the behaviors, the ways of thinking, the ways of leading even of their multi-generational colleagues?
Rachele: (21:14)
And likewise, if the older generations that are in the workplace do not understand that these generations are not, you know, useless, brought race, but they are the future of our society and are able to understand where they come from and understand the forces that are shaping their behavior. What's going to happen is that gen Z is gonna join organizations and they won't be able to drive the change that they need and they're going to leave. And so organizations will miss out on your opportunity to inject the workplace with these skills are extremely needed, but also, you know, they're going to miss out on your opportunity to drive change. That will make a significant contribution, not only to the shareholders but to society as a whole. And so this is where I realized that you know, it's time to really make sure that organizations create and foster that environment because it's only by the younger generations working hands in hands with the older generations to chart a more positive trajectory, that we will be able to solve many of the interconnected problems that we are inevitably going to be facing going forward.
Rachele: (22:18)
So I think this is where the key is, right, is being able to create a world that no longer belongs to the young, the way it has been for most of history. Right? If we think about, you know, history in the past, I mean the kings, the queens, the people that rule the world were, you know, barely teenagers. But if we look in the last 200 years, the world has been owned has been led by the older generations with younger generations, not really having a seat at the table. And I think this is where things are changing. I think that the future of our businesses, as well as the future of our societies, belongs to both: the older generations, working alongside the younger generations and driving the future and leading this world together. So this is the catalyst, this is the purpose for me. And I think for many organizations now who realize that this is a key strategic imperative.
Christine: (23:09)
I really like how you don't look at it in a way that it's a silo, it's not just one or the other, but you actually want to give everyone a seat at the table and just enable them to work better together. I think that's really, really cool. And, just basically, as you said organizations need to create and foster that kind of environment also to be able to be part of the future of work. And you were already talking about the challenges that come with, you know, a multi-generational workforce and how they actually impact a business. And, I'm also curious about how companies can actually basically best address those challenges. So, to kind of give us a more tangible understanding of how you actually work together with clients, could you perhaps guide us through the steps of how you go about working with a client as an example, to get a better understanding of the approach and the steps you're taking together? Like how can we imagine the collaboration between you and the client?
Rachele: (24:10)
So, I think there was a couple of things to be mentioned before that I think as I mentioned, you know, intergenerational conflicts in the workplace are a real reality, even though employees and organizations often don't want to talk about it. In fact, um, you know, if we look at the young generations, only 40% of them believe that generational diversity makes the workplace more productive and only about 50% of the older generations. And this is really a pity because, in reality, we know that diversity can be a great asset and can introduce fresh perspectives and applied knowledge. However, unfortunately, it's not handled with care. It creates a very volatile environment, obstacles, communication, and conflicting expectations. And as a result of this, you know, you find that a lot of the younger generations leave organizations predominantly because of intergenerational conflicts with their managers. So is the everlasting battle between, you know, a new age mindset and traditional things.
Rachele: (25:01)
And the reality is that when you look at how different generations work together and what the dynamics now are, is that the majority of the workforce employees across age groups say that intergenerational conflicts are frequent or extremely frequent. And as a result of a lack of understanding of each other, they see each other as entitled or disrespectful or strawberries or so on and so forth. And this just leads to a series of confirmation biases, negative stereotypes that just prevents people from understanding each other and working together collaboratively. So as a result of this organization faces significant struggles. So I was talking to many of my clients and I've conducted a lot of studies among, you know, hundreds, or thousands of organizations who say that intergenerational conflicts impact organizations very heavily. And what they see as a result of intergenerational conflict or discord among workers - unhealthy competition, lack of teamwork, lack of mutual respect, things like low employee engagement, high turnover, misalignment.
Rachele: (26:03)
And of course, that needed innovation has slowed technology adoption. So when you look at it from a bigger picture organizations that failed to recognize generational diversity, as significant aspects of diversity and fail to kind of address these generational differences and initiate programs and activities that are meant to bring generations together and being completely unable to hire the right talent, completely unable to retain the right talent, enabled to innovate, enabled to drive positive change. And of course also unable to build a strong employer brand that is going to ensure that they continue to get the talent they need to make the business successful. And, I mean, from my perspective, and this is something that I am an extremely strong advocate of is there needs to be a lot more understanding between generations. The good news is that 99% of employees across generations say that they really want to work with other age groups.
Rachele: (27:03)
They really want to find a way to make it work. The problem is that 97% of them tell you when I asked them, you know, how much do you think you know about the context that shaped, you know, your multi-generational colleagues, you know, behaviors, mindsets, and so on so forth, 97% of them will tell you that they know extremely little or nothing at all, which means that fundamentally we create an entire belief system about, you know, why the generations that we work with are the way they are without fundamentally having any understanding of the forces that shaped them. Right? So in my opinion, the very first step for any organization, if they want to manage to bridge the generational divide is number one to recognize that generational diversity is diversity. There is a lot of talks now, and I know it's quite controversial. There was recently an article in the New Yorker that said, it's time to drop the generational labels.
Rachele: (28:03)
Generations don't exist. You know, generational differences are not real. No, we're all people. They can't bill us or put us under generational umbrellas. And while people that say it surely need, well, I think they're actually doing more harm than good. And the reason for that is that the context in which we were brought up, the parenting styles that we were subjected to, the way society was when we came of age, pop culture, technology, office norms, the concept of leadership, what was expected from people when the workplace looked like it inevitably changes and shapes the way we behave, right? And without recognizing this, you kind of deprive people of the opportunity to say there is a reason why I behave the way, and this actually, instead of bridging the generational divide, creates a much broader divide. And one example that I can share with you in which I think is quite powerful is, you know, when I was growing up as a gen X, my father, the very first thing that he ever taught me was never trust anybody at work.
Rachele: (29:11)
You know, never befriend anybody, you know, nobody's ever going to be your friend. It's just going to be competition. Everybody's asked for that same job, that same raise, the same favors of your boss. You know, don't ever be your authentic self. Don't let people see who you are outside of work, because that's just going to expose your weaknesses and you're going to end up paying for it. Don't believe that you're friends with anybody, because even if you think that you're friends with your boss, you know, that's not going to save you from being kicked to the curb if you're no longer useful. And don't be trapped to that, you know, you're having a social [...], everything is an interview, every interaction, right? So as a result of that, as I entered the workforce, I obviously was very guarded and very distrustful. And this is actually one of the biggest labels that are linked or associated with my generation gen Xs, for example.
Rachele: (29:58)
And without knowing that context, when a gen Z or a millennial meets me in the workplace and they experienced this type of leadership or this type of behavior, or they see that, for example, I'm not as comfortable engaging or interacting with them. They immediately see that confirmation bias. Right? Look at that gen X-er she's self-important yeah, she thinks she's better than us. You know, she thinks that she can spend her time, you know, intermingling with us. She doesn't know how to share her professional self or whatever, or personal self, little do they know that I'm terrified because, in reality, it's so different from what I have been brought up to do and how I've been brought up to behave, that I'm uncomfortable. And once they realize that, and once I share this story, you see a lot of the younger generations opening their eyes wide and saying, I had no idea just as I had no idea that you could expect 10 years to go by before you had a seat at the table, or before somebody asks you for your opinion, or, you know, let alone getting a race.
Rachele: (30:54)
So without knowing all of these contexts, you know, when they see a certain type of behavior, well, they see that I raise an eyebrow because, you know, they want to be promoted after six months. They're going to think that I want to slow them down. But the reality is that it's almost unfathomable to me because it's not part of how I experienced the workplace. So again, generational diversity is diversity. Intergenerational conflicts are very real and they stem fundamentally from a profound lack of knowledge and understanding that we have from one another. So the first thing that organizations really need to do is ensure this cross-generational awareness, allow people to, you know, put all the stereotypes on the table and instead of discounting them, instead of seeing them as a negative construct, seeing them as a context-setting tool that allows us to understand the experience behind the like on both sides.
Rachele: (31:43)
So the first step is, you know, awareness sessions, you know, curated conversation, multi-generational panels, where every generation is given the opportunity to weigh in on a topic and just see how people think differently. This is very important because without doing this is almost like trying to save a marriage by telling a couple to go on a date, right. It's going to spice things up for a little bit, but it's only when you sit down and really talk to one another and understand why certain behaviors are the way they are and where they come from that then true understanding and collaboration can take place, right? And then the dates are just going to make everything great. But if you don't have that fundamental knowledge of one another, and that awareness there cannot be mutual respect and the mutual understanding that is needed to be able to bridge that generational divide. So this is the very first thing that organizations need to do before they get into specific initiatives and programs. And then there are a series of initiatives and programs, which I'm more than happy to share briefly that can, of course, really help organizations foster that culture and drive intergenerational collaboration throughout their organization.
Christine: (32:51)
Yes. I'd be happy to hear about those initiatives. I think it's good that you kind of laid the foundation. Okay, what actually needs to be done, you know, raising awareness. I think also it's great to understand how big of an impact, you know, our generational differences and diversity actually make in the workplace. I think that's really interesting to hear because I think a lot of us are pretty much unaware of this or at least I am. So I think it's good to kind of understand the foundation there. But, yes, happy to hear about an initiative in the workplace where you were part of as well.
Rachele: (33:25)
Well, something that works extremely well, and actually I was talking with a few different generations, employees across generations, and one of the best ways to bridge the generational divide, once you have addressed the cross-generational awareness and understanding, of course, is to create a safe space where the different generations can express their perspectives, building emotional connections through join socials, you know, all these things are fantastic, but what really helps, I think the number one way to drive that transformation is through collaborative decision-making sort of cross-generational learning opportunities. So I was talking recently with a gen Z and he actually said, you know what? And actually, this was echoed by a lot of young generations, you know, including the millennials. And interestingly enough, even by the gen X-ers, that the way to actually foster intergenerational collaboration is to erase seniority, remove people's titles, and think of everyone being on the same level.
Rachele: (34:25)
One generation's weakness could be another's strength and diverse skill sets are necessary for tackling problems. So what organizations are doing very successfully, if they're starting to find ways to remove the hierarchy within teams, put everybody on the same level and then create an environment where people are encouraged to collaborate based on their expertise, as opposed to their years of experience. So, a fantastic example of this is Siemens. I actually have an entire chapter on this in my book, which is really honestly my favorite chapter from the whole book, because what Gonzalo, when he was the global head of talent acquisition for Siemens was able to accomplish with an incredibly diverse multi-generational team was really incredible. So, what Gonzalo shared with me and how they managed to tackle the problem was that at one point it became a strategic imperative for the organization to redefine talent acquisition as the global function completely.
Rachele: (35:29)
And, so he decided that, and he had very little time to do it, he said, okay, the only way to be able to record innovation at record speed, lightning speed is to actually bring different generations together because it's only by combining strengths that we're going to be able to fully drive this project forward. And so what Gonzalo did is he decided to put together a team of people that belong to different generations. So obviously Siemens is a German company. You had, you know, the older generation, baby boomers, you know, engineers from Germany, working alongside, young talent from Indonesia or from Singapore or other parts of the world. And, you know, it's interesting because the way that he managed to create a winning multicultural and multi-generational team that brought this disruptive innovation at record speed was doing five key things.
Rachele: (36:24)
So, the first thing that he told me is that the focus was articulating his vision. So he said, you know, at the end of the day, if you are able to align everybody behind one vision, you are already halfway there to solving the problem. Because in reality, if we all understand what we are doing, and if we all understand that we're working together towards a shared goal, then all of a sudden we realized the importance of working together to achieve that goal. Because if we reach that goal, we all win, right. And everybody wants to be successful. The second thing that he said was, you know, having a lot of fun, he said, you know, if you're going to be disrupted, you need to have fun. So, in order to bridge the generational barrier, he made it a point to create opportunities for the different team members to spend time together, to try different food, as they traveled in each other's countries to really get to know each other outside of work.
Rachele: (37:20)
The third thing was breaking boundaries. And he said, you know, it wasn't easy. In the beginning, there was a lot of resistance, a lot of, you know, fear when it comes to the different members of my team in regards to the role as part of this team, because of the generation that they belonged in. So initially it was really difficult and complicated to get people to fully collaborate because there were too many insecurities, too many reservations. And I think this links very well to some of the findings from my own research, where it turns out that one in two employees across generations feel extremely intimidated by their role in a multi-generational workforce. So if you're a baby boomer, for example, you're worried about overcoming old mental models. You're worried about your ideas being obsolete.
Rachele: (38:06)
You're worried about having enough energy to put up with three other much younger generations if you are a gen X you're worried about being still too young for executive management, but too old for the younger generation and ages. And that is linked with new age brackets. You know, if I'm in, you know, you want to be able to build your career, improve yourself while starting a family. And of course, if you're a gen Z, you want to be able to work on meaningful projects. So everybody's intimidated by the role that they have in the multi-generational workforce. And, you know, Siemens understood that very well. So they said, you know, the first thing that we had to do was actually bring the stereotype, you know, address the elephant in the room and really address these insecurities and frustrations that everybody felt when it came to collaborating and working together.
Rachele: (38:52)
And once that was done, and you said, we have to bring in coaches. You know, I had to bring in external coaches, we needed to really sort through our problems and our differences. But once everybody was able to kind of address their concerns, all of a sudden, you know, the fog lifted and everybody was truly able to see each other for who they were. And then from that moment on, we were able to do the fourth thing, which is leverage on each generation's strength. So he said, for example, you know, the younger generations were extremely good at coming up with simple solutions and using technology very effectively. The older generations understood the business extremely well and would know how to navigate roadblocks, bottlenecks, and problems and get support internally. So we decided that everybody was on the same level. There was no seniority, nobody was senior to anybody, but I let people do what they were best at.
Rachele: (39:47)
So again, the young generations would work on problems, come up with solutions, think about how to use technology. The older generations would make the way for that solution to take shape internally. And once they realized how great and how strong the team won and how quickly things were moving when they started relying on each other's expertise, as opposed to using experience well, that's when the magic happened. And, you know, people never wanted to go back to an older way of working or so the older model. They wanted to be part of the [...] because the older generations really felt like they were paving the way for the young and the younger generation felt that their contribution was significant and was taken into account. So everybody, all of a sudden felt equally valued, equally important, equally able to contribute. And then the fifth and final step he said is a rewarding joint success.
Rachele: (40:37)
We made it a point to highlight within the organization, how disrupting, how innovative the team was. And we created a series of, you know, awards and recognitions and visibility within your organization to show the power of a multi-generational team that works together, relies on each other's expertise. And surely by surely, you know, this is a model that started to be replicated across the organization at many different levels, because they saw not only how disruptive, positively disruptive we could be, but also how much the different generations learn from each other in the process, and also how valuable and important they felt. And at the end of the day, as you said, everybody wants to be successful. So, when they realized that actually by not doing what is not an area of expertise and letting the other people or the younger generations do that, even though they're younger than us and have less experience, if that means that we're going to move faster towards a shared goal, well, that's what we want.
Rachele: (41:32)
And so in the end, he managed to create an incredible team. And I think this is where a lot of organizations now are moving towards the idea of injecting, basically fresh perspectives into every team and creating more and more project teams that are stripped of seniority that are non-hierarchical. Every generation is given an opportunity to contribute based on what their strengths are and where they can bring the greatest amounts of contribution and work together that way. And when companies do that, I think is very easy to show the organization how incredibly more innovative they can be. And also the big impact on the organization from an employee engagement standpoint, you know, leadership development standpoint, learning perspective. And so companies that actually work with projects that way are more likely to then scale this approach and make more and more project teams non-hierarchical multi-generational teams.
Christine: (42:28)
Wow. It's really exciting to hear what is possible, kind of view to leverage all of the strength of the different generations if you bring them together. And I think it's great, what you just shared about those five steps about a model that can be replicated and how much impact you actually had with your project when you were working with Siemens. I'm really curious to read more about it in the book there as well. I think it's very, very impactful and yeah, I think it's also great from my perspective to kind of understand, okay, how do you actually work with clients together? How do you help them with their transformation in the organization? I think that's really cool. And, now that we've kind of uncovered how you work together and all of the challenges that you also see, I'd also like to kind of steer it a bit into the positive direction of what were your takeaways from the whole journey? Is there anything where you would say, okay, from all of your experience, this is like your biggest learning or takeaway, that you can think of anything that you would like to specifically highlight?
Rachele: (43:31)
I mean, absolutely. I think, you know, my biggest takeaway was that I mean, I wouldn't necessarily call it a takeaway. I think it has reinforced something that I've always known and that I've always felt, especially because as you mentioned, I've been part of that journey myself as a young talent entering the workforce full of ambition. Frankly, I feel that you know, all of that energy was wasted, unfortunately, who knows who I could have become if I had lived in today's era, you know, where young generations are actually empowered and supported and recognized as valuable contributors to an organization or a team. But I think the biggest takeaway here is that you know as I said earlier, there's been too much of history that has been focused on. There's been too much polarization, I think, in our society. And we saw that reflected into the workplace where you had really the young versus the older, the traditional mindset, and so on, so forth.
Rachele: (44:27)
And, you know, while obviously, whatever has been done up until now has led us to where we are today, I believe that the future no longer belongs to one or the other. I think the future belongs to both working together. And my takeaway obviously would be that, you know, like I said, we're at a pivotal time in history. If we look at all the disruption that organizations are facing, you know, in the midst of a global pandemic, the challenges that we're facing as a society, the disruption brought by digitalization. I mean, this is really our opportunity to create a new path to a successful impact. And I think this is the path that can only be successful if walked by, you know, the older generations, working hands in hands with younger generations to chart a much more positive trajectory and solve then any problems that we're going to be facing.
Rachele: (45:16)
I know that there's been a lot of talk about COVID over the last couple of years, and while it has brought a lot of disruption, obviously it has been traumatic and destructive, and complex. And in so many ways, I think it's actually giving us and handing us a golden opportunity when it comes to intergenerational collaboration, both in workplaces, in society as a whole. There is a quote that I really love that says global crisis that crushed existing borders and overturned long-held norms, especially extended large-scale wars, or obviously, now a global pandemic can pave the way for your systems, structures, and values to merge and take hold. And without such devastation to existing systems and practices, leaders and populations are generally resistant to major changes and to give up some of their sovereignty to new organizations. So, I think this is really our time to drive positive change together, whether it's in society, whether it's in the workplace, this is the time for us to look at each other with different eyes, look at our multi-generational colleagues with a lot more empathy and understanding, realize that there's so much that we can learn from one another. And there's so much that we can gain from combining our strengths and really working together to drive that innovation outside of business.
Christine: (46:38)
I think that's a very beautiful outlook also for the future and very nice advice and take away to kind of come together: It's our time to drive change together. I couldn't have said it better. So, thanks for such an inspiring outlook as well. Yes, Rachele, thank you so much for sharing all about your journey in helping businesses set themselves up for success from an organizational transformation perspective and also for highlighting the challenges and the opportunities that are there in the field of the future of work, and also with generational diversity. Again, really inspiring to hear about this transformation angle and also your own experience with it. It's been amazing having you on and thank you so much again.
Rachele: (47:21)
Thank you so much for having me. It's been my pleasure.
Christine: (47:29)
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