In this episode we chat with our co-creative Directors, four times Australian Hairdresser of the Year Joey Scandizzo & Australian Photographer of the Year Andrew O'Toole. Hear their story, insights and challenges and how two Aussie creatives from different worlds came together to help create a global brand.
In this episode we chat with our co-creative Directors, four times Australian Hairdresser of the Year Joey Scandizzo & Australian Photographer of the Year Andrew O'Toole. Hear their story, insights and challenges and how two Aussie creatives from different worlds came together to help create a global brand.
Hello and welcome to the very first episode of the 11 Australia podcast series. My name is Mark[inaudible] and I'll be your host today for this very exciting interview with 11 Australia's co-creative directors. Joey scan days are an android tool. I know a lot of you listening have been hanging to know more about what makes these guys tick. They're involvement with the brand and everything that comes with it. So without further ado, let's rip into it. Joey and Andrew, welcome to you both. Good afternoon. Thanks for having us here today here with[inaudible]. Geez, I've done well to get you to in the room together with your busy schedules.
Speaker 2:First time in a month. Surprise Agency. I've just met the guy for the first time. I feel like it has been busy having babies that Teza gold. Uh, Andrew, I'm going to kick off with you actually in going back to what you were just talking about then, but how did you guys first meet? Well, it was, if you can imagine this, so we're going back, uh, I guess 12 years ago. Um, if you could imagine a a, and after, I think it was after the maybe here expo wards in Australia, so imagine I, um, and after 15, I imagined a dock nightclub in Sydney and a few people that had some drinks and um, across the room, this guy's on a table with his shirt off. You start body thoughts yelling,
Speaker 3:Andrew our jewel drawer tool.
Speaker 2:I've never met this guy before
Speaker 3:and you're our tool. And I turned around to my wife
Speaker 2:and I'm like, who is this idiot? So that was Joey scan the zone and then he came over and had a chat afterwards and um, I said, oh, he's actually all right. I don't, I think it was another, uh, possibly year or so until we, we, we worked together. But that was, that was my introduction to Joey scan or
Speaker 4:that is a brilliant introduction to each other on a, I mean, back into the top when I first met Andrew that he was the man. Like, you know, everyone used to talk about Andrew as a young kid coming through, you know, just started doing photo shoots. I was working with all these young student photographers, but Andrew was the king, the king of photography when it came to hair and beauty, you know, so I had to meet him. So the only way to do it was get on the podium, rip his shirt off and uh, call his name out and hopefully it looks at your, it comes chest and he did for work. That's awesome. Great. Great way to meet each other. I want to go back to the very start, the very conception of the 11 Australia brand. How did the brand actually come about and who was involved in the early conversations to get this brand off the ground? Well, main Andy, um, by then we'd known each other for over a good, you know, five, 10 years when we're working on it for a different other brand, a lot of different other brands at the time. Um, and one day I remember in particular we're in Sydney working for um, one of the haircare brands. It was one of the, and um, yeah, we had to work with all different products and they were shooting it. Andrew was shooting it at the time and I did, you know, style with their products. And then I remember we sort of left there that day. It was a good shoot. And then we got on the plane and that's where it all started. We started chatting on the way home about, you know, we working with all these different products and you know, some of the products I don't even work with before were just weren't performing. And I'm like, I could create products so much more better, you know, and Andrews I'd made, we could make products look and feel so much better, you know, and we're like, let's have a crack.
Speaker 2:I think it was a, it was interesting because, I mean, you have these discussions, but it was, I think even at the time, you know, we were, we're, we're at the airport and I think, you know, that there was both at every realization that week when we could give it a crack, but to, you know, if we pulled it off, um, could come up with something phenomenal. Um, and, and it was a bit more than, you know, I think we both, um, spoke about it again the next day, so we're kind of straight onto it. So it was on our minds. Um, but both of us probably at that stage, you know, I'd been shooting for 12 or 13 years across, you know, big global brands. Um, so I've worked with a lot of product companies already in San with Joey. He'd been, you know, um, creative directors of, of various companies. So we both had a lot of experience
Speaker 4:Sundaram under our belt. Um, by that stage, I mean, we, you know, we got chat and we kept saying, you know, there's a gap in the market. We knew there was a gap there for us. And, um, we sort of knew what we wanted. We didn't know how big this could be and what a beast it was to take on. So when we started talking about w we already started doing some shoots and some video content of some stuff. And then at the time, obviously I knew Rob Carlo and Pete and I think Andrew, you knew the guy's a bit of a[inaudible].
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, we're, we're all connected but at separately. So we all knew each other but not so, so direct. So just jumping in to add some context, rob is the head of marketing for the brand and Carlo is the global CEO. These guys together with Peter McDonald have worked with major haircare brands in the past across both distribution and manufacturing.
Speaker 4:So at the time I remember having a, you know, rob popped in to sell on one day and I was just having a little chat to him, tell him what, um, myself and Andrew were, you know, doing. And at the time, um, one of the boys was like, they, I think they had an idea or something that we're doing and we sort of, um, we sort of got together and caught up and had a chat and told them what we were thinking of doing and then they see what they were thinking of doing and then we sort of got together and, um, started this relationship. Um, and this brand 11, this all started over a couple of beers and some cheap Parmesan is the only way you do it, Joey. So between conception and launching a of these size,
Speaker 2:there's a lot of work that goes on in the middle. But when you guys got this brand to a point where you were launching to the Australian market for the first time, tell me about the excitement that you had
Speaker 4:for us. This was, this is huge, you know, and for me, I mean, I was, you know, uh, yeah, just start up a business. I was, you know, working with Andrew who was like a mentor to me and then Robin and Carl and Peter Mcdonalds, these guys where I used to look up there, I still look up to them and go, Geez, these guys are fantastic at what they do. They're the best at what they do. So for me, I was like, well, I'm part of this, this crew here. And so I was jumping out of my skin. You know,
Speaker 2:I think it's that sense of achievement as well because you know as, as much as you know, we've got a great team, you know that there's a million other people that will knock you down as fast as you want to get there. So you're, you're also kind of got that in the back of your mind. So to get from that initial meeting and discussion and then Tay me up with a, with the boys to launch, which actually happened fairly quickly before we got, um, miracle off the ground was, was quite a quick process. So to actually get there and kind of not really say too much to anyone and then people were going, I've got no idea how you guys managed to do this because you hear people talking about all the times getting a, a, a product range off the ground and how hard it is and then for them to turn around and go, you know, you guys have done phenomenally well to get to this stage. So that was amazing. So 11 Australia is now distributed through at not only Australia but New Zealand, the whole of the United States, Canada. Uh, we've got 20 countries in Europe now selling the brand. How does it make you guys feel seeing this brand that you can saved and started here getting great success overseas? I have one side, flo is me and I'm so happy and the other side just makes me really stressed and nervous. I'm like Robin collar handle, you know, a lot of the stuff that that are that I don't say, but it's so like when they go, oh this country is coming with this kind of like, it's such a buzz. But at the same time when you know, when you actually put all that in your head of, you know what these guys do on, on the back end you go, wow, that's, that's really phenomenal. Like as huge amount of work to put it together and the mechanism we'll wide that, you know, the, the machine that's, that's kind of running it and that was is amazing. But yeah, the other side is kind of freaked me out a bit. I think. I mean, knowing for me it was knowing that like, I call it the best of the best. You've got the Topcon, you know, you've got Andrew, you've got rob,
Speaker 4:Hello Pete. These guys are genius in their field. So I always knew this could be a beast that would do well. So, but I just think there is so much more we've got to do. So we're, you know, we're here where we are now, but there's so much more that everyone's we're going to do. You know, we've got, we want to keep conquering and concrete developing and the team around us, you know, when you got your education, your events team all edgy. Yeah. Educators and our global distributors, it's, you can't do this on your own. Do you know what I mean? We've teamed up and partnered up with the right people, you know what I mean? So that's what makes it a success. We started this base, you know, we all had an idea and a dream. Um, but we've, you know, we've gotten into bed with the right people, you know, whether they're friends and family or whoever, they, every single person plays an integral part of this brand. And that's the only reason why it's got to where it's gotten today. You know, if it was just the five of us in a room trying to do this, it probably wouldn't happen. You know what I mean? But you know, we've ticked a lot of boxes with dollar hard work from the ground up and it is a successful brand. But I just think there's a long way still to go for us, which is really exciting for everyone listening if you're staying in this brands just getting started. I'm sure everyone can't wait to see what's still to come. Uh, something that intrigues me is that the salon professional haircare space has been dominated by a lot of high end brands over the years. So I'm curious to know what made you want to create an affordable brand rather than go down the path that most salon professional brands go down, which is high end. This is, I mean for me, I've got 12 salons now, you know, and I've got over 140 staff. And when we got together and we spoke to not just, you know, we spoke to the industry but then we, I spoke to our staff as well and spoke to our consumer, our clients and then what did they want, you know, and as much as you want to feel like a rock star and go, I want the high end, you know,$100 champion and that, that's not what we wanted. We wanted a product that delivered that worked most of all and was price point as well. You know, it was for the mass market. But I just think there was that gap that we found and we thought, this is it. This is us. We can deliver this product. We know we can do, deliver a high quality product at a price point, which, you know, the mass mark can afford.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, when we, um, I knew early on we looked at the, um, this, the sales based at the sales figures for the, the middle mass market. And how I think it was, you know, 80% versus 20% of the, the top end. So that was where we were going to aim, you know, target our actions towards, and it was more just going, well let's look at the other brands across that area and what are they doing well, what aren't they doing well? And for me, especially in terms of imagery, I thought a lot of that was just really substandard. And I guess at the same time, going back 15, 20 years there, there was a lot of fashion brands or were emerging aspirational brands that were really affordable. Um, and I, I was looking at these brands going, these look like luxury high end brands. They give you the feel of it, but they're affordable products. Why isn't anyone doing that in haircare? And at the time, no one was, and I said, that's our market. You know, we need a high quality images, high coli, but we need high
Speaker 4:quality products that worked and delivered. And that was our, our key, you know, and that's what we delivered on, you know. And then we've had kept it at an affordable price.
Speaker 1:Having spent a lot of time in salons over the last six years, uh, with this brand 11 Australia can't tell you guys how much you nailed that. It was that affordable sell on professional line with all the bells and whistles and a high performing product was so needed. And I can now see a lot of other brands all over the world really, you know, using 11 Australia as the new standard. Uh, so it's really exciting. What do you love most about being a creative director for a global haircare brand?
Speaker 4:For me, I mean, I enjoy everything about it. I mean, as I said, you've got different businesses in different fields, but for me, being the creative director of live in Australia is something that we all started together as a group and you know, it's, it's taken it on every day. There's something new every day there's a new opportunity coming up. There's so much that this brand's got to offer. So, but working with Andy all the time is, is awesome as well. So, um, yeah.
Speaker 2:How about you Andy? What do you, what do you love most about it? I think, I love the fact that we're trailblazers and I know we are. Um, and I kind of, you know, I keep quite a strong gauge on I guess competing brands and whatever way everyone's up to. And I feel like we've got a, um, really strong looking core of the product in terms of our visuals and the way that we've structured it. You know, we shoot some in studio and someone on location. Um, but I think that the biggest buzz is going into, you know, every time we have to shoot campaigns is that when I have that feeling of like we're on the right track and no one has approached it in this way before. And that gives me the biggest buzz. Yeah,
Speaker 1:great. I know that doing what you guys do, it can come at a price. So I'm really interested to know what are the biggest challenges both personally and professionally that come with doing the role you do with the global haircare brand?
Speaker 2:I think personally, I mean obviously, you know, we've both got our own separate businesses. Um, you know, and with my, my photographic stuff on the way, you know, potentially a couple of months of the year as well, and I've got my existing clients, so to take on a whole new baby, I guess, you know, you're adding, um, quite a decent workload. So I guess personally, you know, you go, well, I'm going to have to sacrifice a bit of family time. Um, and then I guess on the, on the flip side, you at some stage you have to go, you know, what do I need to potentially sacrifice in terms of, do I need to drop some other clients or slow things down? Um, so it all works well, well together. So I think that that's possibly the biggest challenge to, to me
Speaker 4:both, you know, family life balance work as just trying to find that balance, you know, but the good thing is as a and and as, as, as partners, we all know where each other's at in their life. So we've got an understanding whether, you know, if it's, you know, Andrew needs to be somewhere of these family. If I've got[inaudible] gotta be some of my family, if the boys have got something on, we all know we are real people, we have got lives, you know, and, and for all of us, it's still one of the main things. And when we got together was like, how are we going to do this brand, but we're going to have fun. And it was the most important thing, you know, we don't want this to take over our lives and not enjoy if we're traveling the world to all parts of the different countries in all different parts of the world, wherever we go, we need to have fun while we're there, you know, whether it's on a beach location, whether it's the middle of winter, let's go to ski field, let's have some fun while we're doing it. And that for me is, you know, as much as we have the, the brand's growing, I'm having a good time doing it. And that's most important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. That's great. So Joey, I'm really curious to know what made you want to become a hairstylist?
Speaker 4:Uh, well for me. I mean, I was a young kid at school, wasn't the brightest kid at school. Um, and uh, going through those cheeky as a kid I suppose and get into a lot of trouble at school and got to a point where mum used to probably pop up to the school once a week or once every two weeks to have to get me out of trouble and know as the end of year 10. And they said, look, you're better off getting your son out of school and get into a trade. It might be a better idea or find another school. So at the time I didn't know what to do was um, uh, made a, mine was doing plastering. So I went and worked for them. Lasted until about lunchtime when he got the lunches and walk straight home. I thought, I'm Outta here. And then at the time I said, what do I do? Have some, her dad said to me at the time, you know, once you give hairdressing a go, you know, I said, hairdressing, really? He goes, yeah, you get to work with women all the time. You will get to work in an air conditioned place. I thought, Nah, the women sound good. So that's how I got into hairdressing. So I went and worked for a mate, did a few Saturdays there and loved it.
Speaker 1:Right. If the loss from your old man it was. So you've had a Stella Korea so far, you're the owner of 12 salons, a mix of salons and barbershops. You're a four time Australian hairdresser of the year. You've won the Australian here fashion award, Masters Award, the Australian Hair Expo, people's choice award. And all of this has come to you before the age of 38. What advice would you give to other hairstylists looking to follow in your footsteps in the future?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean for me is, it was only when I was like most kids, you know, I Love Sport, love being outdoors. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't the brightest at, at, at school, but I just had passion to succeed. You know, my parents were working class people, dad worked hard, mum worked hard. And for me it just started as simply as going into a salon, um, working and then enjoying what you're doing and be the best you can out of it. You know? And I think the best advice I can give to people is what, or whatever job or whatever it is your doing, just train, work hard and try and be the best you can out of it, but have fun doing it. I don't think that's been my, the best thing for me. Every time I do something I made sure that I'm having fun doing it and it, um, it's worked for me and hard training. I think the most important thing is you can't expect to go to work and do a nine to five and not put any extra hard yards and be successful. You know, my job has never been a nine to five job I'm on all the time. But in saying that you've got to have balance as well, so still work hard, but have family time, have made time, get your serve and you can get your snowboarding in whatever it is, whatever your passion is outside of a, make sure you find that balance and do that as well. Yeah, that's great advice. Uh, what do you believe is the formula for succeeding in the Salon barbershop business? Um, for us, I mean at the time when we first started doing the barbershops, there wasn't, um, in Melbourne there was a few old school barber shops and for us we actually fell into it because at the time we had a salon in South Yarra, which had, you know, 30 staff, we'll knock them back so many clients will fall. And at the time we had about a 30%, 34, 35% male clientele coming into the salon and at the time or knocking back so many female who were cut and color clients. So I, the idea, let's shift them across the road. Um, we're in La and I saw a sell on a barbershop there and I thought this is a cool concept and I thought, let's see if we can take this back home. Which we did. And we designed this, um, store called King's domain, which is across the road. So what that allowed us to do was move our male clientele across the road and then bring in new female clientele who's average spend was two, two 50 were a male client hours, maybe a hundred, 120, 20 bucks. So for us it was a great move to move the mail out, but start a new brand and then our sell on lifted as well at the same time. So I was more as a strategic thing as it started, but then we just saw the barbershop took off and within a year and a half or four work capacity in there. And then we opened up, we just started keeping open it and then, then now we're at seven stores with another two about to open up. I'm looking at to just, yeah, going back to that question, one thing I see that you're very good at, which has been majorly influential in your success is getting the right people involved in your business to help you lead the vision that you want to create. So tell me a bit about the support network behind your business. I think, I think, you know, a lot of people say, Hey, do you do a, but I trust a lot of people, you know, and, and make sure that, you know, the people you are getting involved in, I mean you've got to create an opportunity for them as well. So for me it's like our guys who are all in business with have all come through the salon, you know, whether it's the barber shop or the salon, they've grown with us, they know our culture and then it's never certain, you know, they've worked so hard, they've built um, their clientele but new management skills and then it's their turn to have it go. So we go into partnership with them and then they run their individual store. So, and it gives them an opportunity to be successful. You know, it's not about, it's never about, um, it can't always be about Joey. It's gotta be about every single person for, for me to get to irony to get to everybody needs to begin to where they need to get to. Everyone has to be successful along the way. Yeah, absolutely. And I know speaking to a lot of people that will work with you for many years, they, they love working with you. The support you give them, they're mentoring. So you're doing a great job there. I mean, say that it's not always going to be happy days. I'll be honest. You know, you've got, I've got, you know, over 12 partners in the stores and everybody's got an opinion. So there more people involved in, there's more opinions and you just need to work through all that. You know, I wouldn't sit down and say every dinner meeting and may no go to. It's all about, you know, cheering each other and high fives and all that. There are situations where there's disagreements and people aren't happy and you know, but they're on the flip side, there's, we're all excited. We're doing well, we're pumped. So it's, it's business. It's not, it's not always easy, but it is rewarding. It is successful for, for most of us, but most of all, our business partners are happy and we are growing. We are growing together, but it's work and it's a lot of work to get to where we are to not people look at me and guys and he's so successful. He's got all these salons, he's got a product line, he's got a beautiful wife, he's got all these kids and rrr just falls on his plate. It didn't fall on my plate. It's a lot of hard work and my mind's always ticking. I'm always thinking about different things in different opportunities. You know, how can I make this person happy? How can I put that, make that person happy? I think for my role, to be honest, is trying to create that path for that. That person will find out what makes them happy, what's gonna make them even more happy and okay, I'll create that path. Like I've, I feel like sometimes I've got a vision for people. I don't know how to direct people into a spot to try and make her happy, but it doesn't always work either. Yeah, you were saying then you know, people look at your life and the success that you're having and like you said, you work really hard for it, but I think it's important that people listening know this was something that you built with your own two hands. Your parents came across to Australia in the early sixties on a boat. They're Italian immigrants. Um, you grew up in the outer suburbs of Melbourne. You weren't handed$1 million check to start your hairdressing career in your business. So a full credit to you here. Say, how does a guy with the upbringing you had, how do they someone like you get to the point you are today. It's just taken time. Just hard work. I mean, what my parents did give me is they taught me how to work hard, how to be respectful, how to speak to people, how to deal with people. That's probably one of the best things they could have given me. If they would've given me a golden handshake with the check, probably wouldn't be where I am today. So they taught us the right values. And then from there, um, it's just hard work. It's been 20. Yeah, 24 years of, you know, being out there. When I say hard work, I love what I do and I don't work till midnight every night. I still, I don't go to, I can actually switch off so I can work hard all day. Think about it. And not that I can actually go to sleep and I can sleep six, seven, eight hours and not think about work, you know? But it's, you know, it's, for me, it's being, bringing the right people, surrounding yourself by the right people is always the best thing. People are gonna elevate. You're not people that are going to bring you down, you know? And I try and stay away from negativity as much as I can. And there's, you know, in our industry and in most industries there's negativity everywhere. But for me it's always try and stay positive. Always look at the good things in life, look at the great things that you want to do and stay focused when people are trying to bring you down. That's where I just sort of, yeah, unfortunately I just shut down. It's not that I mean to, but when there's native people around me, I'd just block me years and go, do I need this in my life? Not Real. I'll try and help Ya. But if you can't help yourself, you know, I can give you guidance and that. But you know, unfortunately I lied to help out more, but I just, I just shut down sometimes.
Speaker 1:I want to focus on your celebrity clientele because your celebrity clientele continues to grow. You've now started here for the likes of Ruby rose, Elle McPherson, Sofia Richie, Mel Gibson, Solange Knowles, Paris Hilton, Usain Bolt Victoria as a raincoat, Priscilla Presley. And I'm just rattling off a few here, but
Speaker 4:my one Anna winter. Come on man. Yeah, she's the, the, the golden one for that is, that was amazing.
Speaker 1:Uh, as I said earlier, you grew up in a, down to earth, middle class family in the[inaudible] suburbs of Melbourne, Australia. You become a hairdresser, you work hard and you start to see some success, but then all of a sudden you're doing hair for some of the most famous people in the world. So I'm keen to know how did you go transitioning into this fast paced world of the rich and famous that you're in now? Well, to be honest, it started
Speaker 4:most like, um, Ruby rose for instance. She, um, I met her on a shoot 10 years of, even longer, 15 years ago. And that relationship started just by me on a shoot. We started hanging out, being good mates and then, um, started doing her hair then, then she grew, and then we sort of all grew at the same sort of time. But along the way, you know, just, you know, some of the award winnings, it built my profile, my brand. And then people started saying, you know, I want Joey to do my hair. Can we get Joe to do my hair? And then, you know, it just, that's how it started. Then from one to it led to another, to another. But then, um, I think what works well, I'm, I'm pretty down to worth when I meet these people. I'm not too over the top. I'm not star struck by them. I'm just like, they're a normal human being. Like I am, you know, and let's go in there, let's see what they need done and make them happy and keep a core relationship with them. And most of everyone I've done have kept a really good relationship with them. And yeah, it's like a client. They just keep referring and you know, their management refers and it just gets bigger and better and, and easier. But in saying that, I've had some times where, you know, there's been some nervous moments, you know, in hairdressing sometimes there are those, there's one moment I'll never forget when, um, I was doing Priscilla Presley, you know, I walked in and did a hair the first day. It was all, some did the photo shoot the next day, the night before she said to me, she was like, Oh yeah, tomorrow I'll just do my hair the same. I said, cool. Went in the next morning, went to do her hair. And she's like, Oh, I've actually changed my mind. I go, yeah, cool. What, what are, what do you want now? She's like, oh, I want a, um, traditional finger wave. Like I started sweating, so stressed it out. Go. I've done a finger waste since I'm actually didn't do what I was meant to do on at school. So I got the girl next to me to do it and then I got passed off for it. So I'm like, maybe I should've focused, but, um, I just had to wing it that day. I was just like, I knew what she sorta wanted and I had to create the shape and the good thing was was for the races. So she were a fascinating, I could cover most of the um, some of that hair, but she was stoked, she was happy and um, it worked out but I was nervous and I was sweating so it can be nervous sometimes, you know, when you're dealing with some of these high profile people, you know, and a winter is probably been the biggest person I've done. And you walk into that room and you, you, you are a bit nervous be just try not to show it and keep it as simple as possible. Good scenario. Joey scanned Eso still gets nervous. I still get into, I still get nervous. I'm doing out. I mean people say, oh you're this, you're that, you've won all these awards. But I still get nervous now. 100% I do.
Speaker 2:Alright, Andrew, I want to shift the focus over to you now. I'm curious to know what made you want to become a photographer? Actually, I didn't start out with any photographic background. I was, I studied criminology at university, um, and before that started getting my pilot's license to join, join the air force. So it wasn't even on my ride out until I was probably early twenties, like I picked up a camera obviously, but beforehand, but I went on a trip to Nepal and was, um, was literally at the base of Mount Everest and I ran into this, um, this couple from England that were, were both lawyers. And at that stage I was just about to start a law degree. I'd finished my criminology degree, um, and I'd enjoyed, really enjoyed taking photos of the last four or five weeks, gone through in the Poland and India. And, um, they were both lawyers and I was just grilling them about how much they liked to work. And they both said they hated their jobs and, um, you know, they, they wished they'd, they'd done things differently. So I just want to go back home. You know, I loved the, you know, the, the taking photos pot and you know, and everything, you know, when I developed the film, when I got back, you know, I love what I was doing and, uh, I basically started from, from there, uh, shooting hair and beauty became a real niche view. In the early days of your career, how did you end up specializing in the hair and space? I had actually had no intention of shooting hair and beauty. I think when I, when I first picked up a camera, um, originally in Australia where I was shooting, uh, portraits. Um, I, I think my first jobs were for business magazines of businessmen and, um, channel seven, one of the local TV stations here in Melbourne. And then that happened fairly, fairly early on in the career. Um, I think when I moved to London, um, probably two years after I picked up a camera, um, the studio that I started to, so I basically went over as an assistant, uh, the studio that I was fortunate enough to manage. They had a lot of, I guess, high profile fashion shoots. They're turning guys to shoot all their campaigns in the studio and a few other big hair companies. Um, so I'd seen what the guys were doing with shooting hair, but it still wasn't on my radar. I was probably fortunate enough to work with quite a few big, uh, beauty photographers as, as an assistant. So I really liked that aesthetic. Um, and then, and then by chance, one of the, the, the hair clients that was, um, shooting in, in the studio that I was managing. So this stage, basically I was, you know, I say managing, but I really mean sweeping up the crap at the end of the day and making toast. That's what I mean by managing. Um, so these, these, these guys came in for a five day shoot and they got into a day two of the shoot. They, um, they weren't really that happy with their photographer, so they, they basically sacked him at d and at the end of the day too. So the guy that was, um, running the, the show guy called Alberto Ini, uh, who went on to become a really good friend of mine. He said, well, he goes, I'm going to come in tomorrow and take the photos, but I just need you to set up the lights and help me out if you know what you're doing. And I said, yeah, I'll be right for that. Uh, so we got to the next day and um, he was off doing hair and he said, just set up the, the lights. And in those days he goes, you know, take a Polaroid for me. Like, like we used to and we got to the first shot. And um, he said that Polaroid's really good. He goes, you can, you can do the first shot. Say Great. So I did the first shot of a, of the day and I think all all up they had 16 shots to do. So it came to the second shot and here he goes, do the Polaroid, come and show me and I'll come and shoot it. So I did the Polaroid and he goes, that looks great. You can do the next shot. So I don't, I guess the next is kind of history, like, you know, went onto shot three and he said, listen, just shoot the whole day. He goes, I love what you're doing. And he goes, I want you to come back and I want you to shoot all of tomorrow and all of the next day. So that was I think 16 shots a day, which is actually a ridiculous amount to shoot. Um, and I think out of those six collections I shot, that was probably the first entry for the British hairdressing awards that I had no idea of what that was at that stage. Uh, I think the bulk of those actually went on to, uh, to win. So I guess that was my entry into, into hair photography. So lucky breaking away, but just fortunate to have on Berto there to trust that you're going to get the job done, let luck, lucky break at the right time. And I think, you know, I was, I definitely saw it as, uh, as an opportunity that someone had had given me and had definitely had enough experience to, to tackle it. Like, Joey, you still, you're still a young lad and you've had an equally amazing career. You've shot over a hundred industry finalist awards in the UK, in Australia. You've won the Australian photographer of the year. You've taken out an AI Pp for best photographic collection, and you've shut the winning collection for Australian hairdresser of the year for 15 consecutive years. You've worked with the likes of Angelo Seminara Aero Douglas, Charles Worthington, Beverly Kybella, Sasha Mascolo, frank or la Polis and Trevor Sabi, just to name a few, to have the privilege of working with such amazing hairstylist that just doesn't come overnight. What have you sacrificed to get in the position that you are today? I think when, when I'm talking to my assistants and a lot of them come through and you can say, they're like, I want to be you. You know? And my response is, you know, if I was to break it down into what is talent outside, it'd be 15 to 20%. The rest is hard work, you know, so it was, you know, as, as much as people go, you're, you're at the top of your game and you're performing really well, you know, for years, when I first started, even after London and I moved back to Australia, um, you know, I worked, I was doing jobs. Um, I thought my, my, my biggest asset that I have, because it wasn't that busy is actually time. So when I broke down my jobs into how much I'd earn per job, which is probably only maybe$2,000, but that would take me two or three weeks of time. So you break it down to be earning like$15 an hour, you know, you'd earn more money at McDonald's. Um, and that went on for a long time. So it was just, you know, my goal was of being given a opportunity. These people want to work with me, but I have to prove myself and I have to keep the client, especially in the hair industry and shooting awards. I guess the Nice thing is it's obvious to say results, you know, people that do well become a finalist or win. So over a couple of years that came into, you know, they're winning, we'll rebook you with their winning. They'll read books and kind of went on from there. I guess getting back to your, your question in terms of what do you sacrifice, you know, for me it was I guess until three years ago, you know, that was traveling to Europe every three weeks and from as you know from Australia, that's, that's 24 hours. Um, so that, that's in, in recent history. So you know, as much as people go, you're at the top of your game. And I love that side of it. There's another side where Andrew's at the airport in pain, you know, he's got pain through his hip and his back. Um, you know, often shooting, you know, 10 days back to back in London and these days, you know, shoot days are often like a, a marathon. So it might be from 8:00 AM til midnight often. So if you do that everyday for, for 10 days and you're away from your family and you're lonely, you know, it can be pretty well. It is hard work, you know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. You know, the flip side to seeing at that level is a lot of hard work that goes into, into that. I, I think that the nice thing is, um, and I'll probably only real realize it in the last couple of years. Like, like I kind of feel like I'm at the top of the mountain where I can go, hang on. I don't need to kind of take every job that comes my way and I can slow it down and concentrate on things I love, give more time to 11 Australia, you know, the, the bigger this brand grows, um, the more time, you know, I'm going to put my energy into, into this, this, this brand because it's kicking, you know, all the goals that I want it to. I remember that time you, you're speaking about, I remember how hard you're working, how much you're flying, and I can only imagine the toll it was taking on you, but the only bonus you got out of that was, I don't think anyone in the world had more frequent flyer points than you at the time. But that's the, that's the one nice. The one nice thing that's like a nice little payoff for the MBA. There's, there's, you know, having, you know, I think some people can be naturally gifted in a huge way and do it easily. I wouldn't tell him that that person, I'd say, you know, I've got, I've got a talent and I've got a, a gift. But I think what got me to the level where I am now is just hard work.
Speaker 4:I mean, Andrew, he does not give up. I mean from personal experience. Um, you know, we'll be on a shoot and you've shot a pitch or anything. Great. I've got this. And Andrew Goes, no, no, Nah, I've got more. I mean, you know, he's going to get the best out of that shot. You know, where a lot of other photographers they'll shoot and you'll say, yeah, I'm happy and they'll just stop you. And that's the difference between being the best in the world or being the best, you know, he, he will, he will not stop until he knows he's got that winning shot fire. I
Speaker 2:think the process, like especially shooting collections as well, I think I've always done well is had quite a clear vision of the level where it needs to be and where to direct or mentor people to get them to that position. Uh, and I think, you know, obviously when you have a, a clear vision, if it doesn't fit in with that vision, you know, you're not there yet. So for me, you know, often people will look at me on a set and go, are you gonna Andrew? It looks a little bit frustrated and that's because I have such a clear vision of where it should fit. If it doesn't fit in there, I'll go, let's, let's just try again. We can do better and better and if that takes an extra hour or two or three or four and we're there til two midnight. But when we get there, that's, that's usually when magic happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, listening to you both speak, there's no question that hard work and commitment and dedication to what you're both doing has got you to where you are today. There are no shortcuts. And, uh, I mean, you boys are living examples of that. Uh, everyone creative has inspirations. Andy, who would you say has inspired your work the most over the years?
Speaker 2:I think photographically. Um, there's this photographer called Paler Reversi and his, uh, is an Italian pedigree. I think he might be in his seventies now, possibly more on the art fashion side, but his workers or whenever I've seen his work, even when I was young, even before I'd actually picked up a camera, I knew of this guy's work and thought it just looked like the most beautiful paintings, but there was just some something cool and untouchable about it. And this guy's still shooting today like is now, you know, early seventies and still doing the same type of work, still shooting for Italian vogue. And he's at the top of his game and there's another guy called Peter Limburg does the most beautiful, I guess, authentic black and white portraits of women, like strong women. And I think that's, you know, his work. I really kind of, you know, touches me somehow. I got that, you know, he represents women in a really authentic, beautiful way.
Speaker 1:Thanks Andy. Joey, I want to swing back to you now. I'd just like to paint a picture for our listeners of your flagship sell on in Melbourne, Australia. Joey Scandi Zos sell on the sell on is absolutely beautiful. It's a massive space, triple story. You've got around 40 staff working there and you also have a predominantly wealthy, very high end clientele who demand nothing but the best. So what was the response and feedback lock from your clients when they started using 11 Australia?
Speaker 4:Well, for us, like you said, where we're based, you know, I always knew what our client wanted to get before going into a live in Australia because I did ask the client, I asked out our staff, I said, well, you know, what does a consumer want? You know, they don't want to be, not all of them want to be sitting there spending 60 70 bucks on shampoo, you know what I mean? What they want is high-performing products. And that was the most important thing for us when we got to is we need high quality products that deliver and work and we don't need to complicate in any way, just make it perform, make it work. And you know, they will buy this product, they will use this product, you know? So that was the most important thing. It wasn't really about price. I know we could have put a price point of 50 60 bucks on a shampoo and they still would have bought a person does deliver, does perform. So that was a key
Speaker 1:prior to taking on 11 Australia you'll sell on had never stopped an affordable brand. I know a lot of salon owners can get thrown off by putting an affordable brand into a premium sell on because they often say it, it cheapens their image. But what did offering your clients are more affordable take home option do for the retail of your business?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I mean basically the what worked best for us, which was awesome, was what we dd now sell was all our staff use. We put them on the, on the shell, on the cutting section. So all our staff use 11 Australia. And that was the easiest person. Once they sort of touched it, feel it, work with the product, they started to believe in the brand and then they started purchasing the brand. But what happened was, you know, our product, our clients were buying product from somewhere, whether it was from us or whether it's from our warehouse or wherever they'll purchase, they'll word buying. Everyone was using shampoos. So what happened was once we put this price pointed product in, then they started buying it from us. So our retail was going from, you know, seven eight 9% it jumped up to, you know, 12 15%. So our clientele jumped up and people started buying their retail now through us. And our retailers just skyrocketed through all the salons. Now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do notice that in all the sellings I work with, not every client purchase retail. A lot of clients, even in these high end salons are still purchasing from supermarkets, pharmacies, discount beauty stores. So this brand 11 Australia is the perfect stepping stone. There is no question to get those clients out of those places in purchasing from salons and in return, as you said, this brand's done wonders for the retail side of your business. You guys are making more money, your clients are walking away super happy. Am I right?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Look, you know, when a product works, when the, they're coming back and buying it over and over again. The good thing is we now sell them. We do have other brands. I sit where I cut hair, I sit right next to the 11 stand. So I just see people walking in and out of the, off the street, grabbing 11 all the time and then picking it up. You know, you just, sometimes people are picking up the miracle hair treatment three or four at a time. And I'm like, oh Geez, you go through a lot. She goes, no, my mum wants on, my sister wants on, so I have to buy for everyone. So I'm like, these people are in love with this brand, you know? And it's, I feel proud because we've got some big name brands in our cell on and the majority I reckon is probably 75% of our clientele is onto 11 now. You know what I mean? And that I feel good because you see him walk in, you're like, I need retail. And it's so easy for him to walk anywhere in the cell. And when they v Launch Straight to 11 I'm like, I'm proud we've done something right here. You know what I mean? And these people are walking in Louis Vuitton, Gucci it up. There they are, you know, driving fast cars and they are using our brand and that and they've got a disposable income they can spend on whatever they want, but they actually want something that works. Yeah. That's awesome to hear.
Speaker 1:So Andy, I'm going to come back to you now. What inspires and motivates you to continue doing what you're doing? One of the things about the way I work, I get bored really, really easily. So from an after like big blocks of work, I'll kind of sit down and reassess where I've done and go, you know, that was great or I, I enjoyed that. But I want to take it to the next level. I take definite period, right
Speaker 2:brakes, site at eyes, you're on display for a a couple of weeks every, you know, four or five, six months in just re-energize. One inspiration for me comes from a place when my mind is really clear. So when I take a break, I'll be off-grid, so I'll go to Africa or Cambodia or somewhere where I can just totally re-energized. There's no distractions in my brain. Um, and then one feel in touch with how I'm feeling and where things are going. Sometimes, you know, you have like a any night sense of whether to take things. Um, but generally if I'm not shooting, I'll try and surround myself, you know, with, you know, definitely lots of art staff if I'm traveling around the world. Museums, um, galleries definitely. Um, definitely, you know, researching on online and that can be really obscure as well, you know, going back through, especially with, I guess coming into a lot of hair stuff. So often I'll be looking back through archives of even American Indian staff or African tribes or it could be stuff in the fifties or sixties or seventies, and just looking at, you know, maybe how can you, you help clients apply, you know, these things to what they're doing now. What excites you most about 11 Australia right now? I think I'm super excited because I feel like we've, we've only just begun. Um, like I the, and I know people kind of see us as a brand that's out there. But I think for, for both Joey and I, we've really, I guess, you know at and t I think it was part of the original plan but we've created, you know, a core structure of the, the, the branding um, were 11, Australia has got a very definite look and I don't think a lot of brands have that. They can jump around from here, here to there. And I think 11 Australia's created, you know, a beautiful coal product like a beautiful looking product. And I think from there and we've worked out the structure, the way you can take that and where you can stream like that is quite incredible. And the fact that, you know, we've got a vision of where the brand is headed and a really clear vision is pretty exceptional. What advice do you have for stylists looking to make their mark in competitions around the world? I think the best advice, and I think Joey touched on this earlier, is surround yourself with great people. So you know, Joey's Joey's a master of getting good people on board. People that do things better than, than human in some ways. Um, whenever you work with people that are on a different level too. So if they're the next level up, they will lift your skills. I'll put them, you know, if you're working with a cheap makeup artist or a dodgy photographer, they're going to drag your work down so that the first thing would be, you know, look to people that can elevate your, your level of work. You know, and I think that the next thing is being creative. You know, like lots of skills requires practice. You know, it's not, you're not just creative or not creative. The more effort and time you put into it, the more you exercise being creative, the more it will come naturally to. So, you know, you've got to get your hands dirty, you've got to get into the mannequin heads. Like, if I'm shooting with any of Joey's young guys in particular, I'll say do it on a mannequin head and show it to me. Like I need to see that you can actually execute this work. And by getting them to do that, then no other go, oh Geez, you know, I actually can't do that work or one of practice. So by the time I come around to doing it again and re practicing or on the shoot, I'm already three times down. I've always little mistakes I was made, I've already got rid of rid of those. So, so definitely exercise, being creative. That's, that's a huge one. Uh, also investing in great makeup artists, great stylists, great photographers to help elevate your work to the next level. Yeah, I think, you know, certainly at the top level, um, to s to some extent, you know, there's, you know, it does get expensive because certainly, um, I guess 20 years ago my first hair show was 20 years ago this year. Um, and the way hair was shot was really differently and a lot of people didn't spend that much money on their shoots. And that's slowly changed over the last 20 years. And I've certainly been, you know, with, with my clients really active in saying, you know, you really need to pay more money for a stylist because that's gonna change the way your work looks. And I think when I first started, you know, the People's opinion of hair shoots, I guess within the fashion industry was, it was always, you know, I guess a bit second rate these days, it's really different. You know, if I can give you an example, yesterday I posted two photos on Instagram and the beauty editor of Paris vogue liked both of the photos. So 20 years ago I had not much attention. And now you've got some of the biggest magazines in the world, you know, looking at your stuff and taking notice of it. That's how much has changed within 20 years. Yeah, it's amazing. I want to ask you guys the same question, Joey, I'm going to go to you first. What's the best advice anyone's ever given you along your journey?
Speaker 4:Work hard, train hard, and if you want to be the best, you've got to train hard. You know, like I've said, it's not a nine to five job. There's no, it's not a race to get to where you needed to get to. I know a lot of people these days is always, I want to get there, want to be, you want to get there quick. I want to do that. What I've learned, it's not a race. Take your time, do the hard yards and do the training. Put the time in.
Speaker 2:Great Advice. And Andy, how about yourself? Uh, I think equally work hard but also have, have a vision of where you want to see yourself in, in the future. Like have a, have a spot that you're actually working towards. Otherwise you just can waft around a bit, left and left and right. I think that's, that's a great one.
Speaker 4:I'd sit achievable goals. Don't sort of sit these girls that are unrealistic that you can't achieve sen, you know, sit your little goals all along the way. So then you can hit them. Once you achieve and you're happy you're, and then you move on to the next one, next one. And grow.
Speaker 2:Even with my creative work, like definitely at the end of every year, Oh God, this is what I want to achieve next year. And that's, that's a good stepping stone because you're already moving in the, in the right direction if you've got a bit of a, a longterm vision. Um, and you know, for me, obviously that incorporates or live in Australia now, but that makes things a lot clear in my head. How important is it to take the time to give yourself a pat on the back when you do achieve these small goals along the way? You have to like if, if you're not, if you're not putting yourselves on the back, if we're not going to, I guess the hair expo wards and sitting there with Joey and hoping that his, he's going to win. And if you miss those moments, you just kind of move on and it's just work, you know? And so if you're not enjoying the process, if you're not having time to play, it just becomes work. I feel like a lot of people today just getting caught up in the grind and not taking that time to say, Hey, great job to myself. Let's carry on to the next goal. Is there anything that you guys would like to say to the people who have got this brand to where it is today?
Speaker 4:For us, like us, we said earlier, it's not just about me or Andy, it's about every single person. You know from our team, our business partners, our educators at distributors, the people in the road who are selling the brand, the consumers who are using the brand. It takes every single person to make something like this special. You know what I mean? And everyone's worked hard in this game. You know, every single person that we've got to thank everyone. You know, who's, who's out there, who's on the road, who's going into cell phones for us, who's, you know, stuck in packages and up in warehousing. It's, it's everybody.
Speaker 2:I think when, whenever people ask me about, you know, when the Leban goes on the road, what's the best thing? I always say it's like meeting people. It's like all of a sudden I feel like I've got go to the other side of the world and there's like instant family and it's like, I've met so many great people in the last few years through 11, so reps in the u s uh, distributors in, in Europe and it's phenomenal. It's like, that's for me, you know, having all of those new connections overseas, I kind of walk away, you know, blows my mind that these, these are now friends that, you know, if you said 10 years ago you'd be running this brand and meeting these people in, in the states and I'm a guy that's, you know, Sydney's car out in the road selling the brand and I'm going like, this guy's a legend. That's, that's what it's about for me.
Speaker 4:The other thing, when we're away from home, your wife, from your family, these people in all these different countries, they become your family. You're in hotels, you haven't dinner with them every night. You spending time with them. And that's what keeps it real for us and keeps us wanting to travel if we went there on our own and didn't, you know, didn't have that, you know, those good people around us, you know, whether you know clients or reps or sales people or distributors, they make us feel so welcome when we get there and that's what we love. So when they say, do you want to come back? Do you want to come back? We're always putting a hand up going, yeah, we'd love to come back because they were nice. I like family, so let's spend time with these people. Yeah. Big shout out to the sales reps, distributors and consumers all over the world. Uh, there's no doubt this brand wouldn't be the same without Ya. Uh, and boys finally, what is next for 11 Australia? Literally, we've got a campaign shoot coming up, which you gotta be a nice, we should, I'm super excited about. I'm not gonna tell you what it is. Cause I was really excited about. At least if we bring the guy that spends the money with us, he can know what we're on about. That's, that's our philosophy now. Yeah. Like, and we've got a big care, but we've just got new education coming out. We've got new products coming out. There's always something happening. We're in here all the time talking about new and inventive things, new products, new campaigns, and you shoot and your education, and I'm repeating myself, but there's always something going on here in the brand. So it's always alive. It's always something happening. Boys, what can I say? But thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today and we'll speak to you soon. Cheers mate. Well done.