MIRROR MAZE - Announcement & Interviews Artwork

Angel and May

Angel and May are two worn-out private investigators from LA. Events take a turn and they embark on a journey which will take them across time and space to the asteroid colony "New London". They hole up in a dodgy pub run by a crazy drag queen. What could possibly go wrong! They say the skies are the limit, but here they're just the beginning!

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Angel and May

MIRROR MAZE - Announcement & Interviews

May 25, 2026 • Multiple • Season 6

0:00 | 52:47

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This is an announcement of the MIRROR MAZE movie release and an in-depth interview with the lead actors and the two directors of the movie.

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Angel and May is an audio-only podcast, produced by a not-for-profit group of community theatre supporters.
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1:00:01

Greetings fellow Angel and May listeners,this is Melanie, theproducer of Angel and May.Now as you may be aware, we haven't hadmany audio releases forthe last year and a bitand that's becausesomething else has been happening.We've all been working very hard on asignificant new projectwithin the Angel and May universe.That project is a movie, and I mean aproper movie, it's twohours sixty minutes longand we used real actorsand green screen techniques.This is out on the Future Nowpart of the Foursome channel.It may appear on other streaming sitesperhaps later in the year.And this is a reworking of the MirrorMaze Story arc from Season 1.Now this doesn't mean we've stopped theaudio podcast, it'sjust that we can't do bothat the same time, it's just so much work.I do have an embryonic script which takesthe Angel and Maypart of the Angel and Mayuniverse as opposed to the Gander season.I want to take that to a Season 4, butit's going to takeanother six months I think todevelop some good stories for that.In the meantime,please check out the movie.You can find links and various things onthe Angel and May websitewhich is www.angelandmay.comand the Angel and May has no gaps in it.I've included the audio that we got froma reasonably in-depthinterview of the leadactors and myself and my fellow directorof our experiences making the movie.We do thank you for your patronage of theAngel and Mayuniverse and we hope you likeour continued investment inthis world and its characters.So what now follows is the interview andif you wish there'salso in the bonus sectionon the website thevideo that goes with this.So Shannon, over to you.What first drew you tothe character, Sharon?Well coming on to this project, I hadpreviously worked with Alexdoing makeup on one of hisfilms.Oh right.So he had asked me if I was interested indoing some makeup anda really small actingposition in this film.You became the lead.Yes.So the Mel's launch party, I came hereand the lead had just pulled out.So I spoke to Mel for a very short amountof time and then she asked me if I wantedto play that character.I said you don't know what I'm like, Imight be a huge dud.So Vivian who plays Gander, she said adud is better than no dud.So I was like okay and then Mel.Go take a chat.Yeah.She talked to me about the character.She showed me everything she'd done.It was really impressive.So I read through the script and withinthe day I got backand said yes I'll do it.Had you listened to any of the podcasts?No.Previously.So you came in totally fresh.And Sakti, tell meabout your character Alex.We're both feisty.My personal life, I have two kids, twodogs, husband and everything.And Alex doesn't have any of that.So this is a question for both of you.It's really about role preparation.So how did you prepare for the role?Sakti, if I could start with you.Sure.I was told by Mel, the character is verysimilar to Bruce Willis, Die Hard.Things of that kind of fitted in.I was like oh yeah I could do that.A bit of a badass.Very badass.That was fun to play.Yeah, cool.Well I like to be like that.I'm actually the bad mum at home.As in the kids say you're so not nice.I'm like well that's whatyou get for being naughty.Yeah.So in that way maybe we have similarity.Jonathan, how about you?Did you do anyspecific research or training?Well when I was younger I've done alittle bit of acting training.But for this character in particular Ireally went to Mel's website and podcast.Yeah, okay.So I just read through all the attributesabout the character.I think I listened to only maybe onepodcast that didn't havewifi for like a very longtime.Yeah, so I tried to take that on board.And you got the graphical representationsof the characters as well.Yeah, and she did explain the characterto me and kind of what shewanted from the character.I think I'm similar to the characterbecause I'm very sociallyawkward and she's supposedto be that.I think I'm more of a seriouscharacter as opposed to Alex.As filming progressed did you absorb moreof the character as time progressed?It just became its own little thing andthen we found our little balance.Yeah, working together was nice.But I did enjoy your character a lot.And Sakti, how did your understanding ofthe character evolve during filming?First time when I shot it was just me.And then I met Shannonbecause she came on board later on.I think that's when I started feelingmore comfortable havinga sidekick because we asthe characters then met at an all-girlsschool because they wereboth orphans and so on.So because then I could play an orphan.So you did a lot offilming on your own first.I think it was like a month or something.And it was just feeling a bit strange.So I was trying tofigure out the character.And then the only thing I had behind wasa bit like Bruce Willis Dihard, that kindof strong, energetic, feisty, rough,aggressive kind of character.But then when she came along, she clickedand the charactersbecame playful together.Yeah, right.And how about you, Shannon?Or how did yourunderstanding of the character evolve?I found we were able to balance ourcharacters off each other,especially towards the gettinginto it.Yeah, so things developed.I mean, the filming wasquite extensive over two years.So you would have got toknow each other pretty well.Yeah, we should do it.During that time.Yeah.And things became easier with thecharacters over time.Did you find that?So it's more like, you know, she's mylittle baby sister kindof, and I had to protecther and look after her.That was my kind of...Well, you're the badass as well.Yeah.And also I think the characters likeshe's my little baby sister.There you go.Because she's always getting into troubleand then I have to get her out of it.That was your character.Cool.Cool.What was the most challenging scene?Probably just when we first startedgetting used to having the camerastraight in my face.So if I was with just kind of like mysupport blanket, if Iwas with her, I was good.You're good.But then as soon as it was the time atthe beginning for thecamera to be right on me,I just feel like, oh crap.And it's like, youknow, it's very intimate.Yeah.It's a very small set.Yes.And I hadn't beenused to that for a while.Yeah.Probably haven't had acamera in my face since 2019.Right.Was it your first experience both using agreen screen to that extent?So it's you're creatingeverything in front of you.You need to know sort of like what'svisually in front of you.Yeah.Yeah.Definitely need that storyboard if you'regoing to film on a green screen.Was there one particular scene that youreally, really found challenging?You probably have different answers.It's not necessarily going to be the samescene, but is there anything that you canrecall you mentioned, you know, camerastraight in front of your face?Just pretty challenging as.Yeah.I would say probably when we wereshooting outside, weneeded a bit of a distance todo some running scenes.Yeah.We ended up goingoutside on the driveway.Yeah.Yeah.Okay.And, you know, bird noise, airplanes, thewind, the sun, and then we had to run andbasically we wererunning on the green screen.So then you're worried about slipping.Right.So then you're not exactly running like anormal person would.You're doing the running man.Yeah.Well, kind of, but you'remore running not to slip.Right.Not ready to slip because Iwas, I had my hands like this.I wouldn't really run like that, but thatwas to have my balance in not slip.Sure.So that was probably one of the difficultones for me because I was running a lot.I don't know.What about you?Yeah.Outside was really interesting becausethe sun is so in your eyes.Yeah.So both Sakchi and I at some point, we'rejust trying to like,yeah, keep our eyes openlike this.Yeah.Yeah.Because maintain continuity.Yeah. Because the whole time we're working inthe studio, you know,just out of the way.Yeah.We can still look at each other.We weren't squinting.Yeah.Yeah.Worry about the sunlight.And I was running in theheels, which I've had it.Oh, I know that's challenging.I totally understand.Yeah.I had to.But oh, I try to stopsuddenly in high heels.Yeah.That you won't see atall in the final cut.But for us, it's justlike, wow, that was so funny.And he was difficult.Yes.Bright lights.Yeah.Sun makes sense.But there's also a lot ofother people, a lot of extras.And how did everyone build a chemistry?Well, most of the time, it would be onthe day where we meet the character.Yeah.Yeah.And the person would havea quick two minute chat.And then, no, they were all very lovely.And they were pretty easy going to be,you know, acting with.And they wanted to get the job donereally well as we did.All of the actors that we worked withwere really supportive ofeach other, patient witheach other.Some of us, it's Brisbane, weall kind of know each other.Yeah.Can you share your most memorable?No.Like, it was a nice experience.Even if there was achallenging one, it turned out good.It's all learning curve.And this was my first speaking role.So the whole thing was memorable for me.One might be thinkingabout the fight scene.That was pretty intense because I haven'tdone a fight scene before, but I learnt alot from him.So it's all choreographed.Yes.So we had to do it a few times before,probably a week before.And then on the day we rehearsed it againa few times, then we shot it.But I don't reallyknow how to explain it.It's like a dance.Exactly.It's like a dance.You have to remember it.And then the otherperson does their thing.You do your thing.Were you both involved in afight scene there, Shannon?Yeah, I really enjoyed it.I'm a very physical person.So you enjoyed that bit.Yeah, I did.Yeah. And I was still on screen.How did the director, if we talk aboutMel and Alex, guide your performances?They both helped a lotin everything, as we said.Everything was donebehind the green screen.I had no idea where I was.So my question wasalways, what's behind me?Shannon's there.Who am I talking to?Where's my eye line?What I need to do?Where I have to be directing me.So a lot to do with howto place you in the scene.Yes, because they visually know.They can see it.As for talking about my personalexperience, I had no idea.Besides, my character was there.She was emotionally feelinglike this, talking to Shannon.But then what's around us?Yeah, and definitely critical if you'veboth not done a lot of greenscreen work.And we were very prepared with thestoryboards and everything like that.So when we came intoit, they had a good idea.Did anything unexpected happen duringfilming that influenced your performance?Happy.Peeing on our green screen floor.And then we have a dark patch there.And I'm like, OK,what do we do with that?Yeah, OK.I have to work aroundcertain extras behaving badly.Yeah.What did this project teach you?Mainly working behind a green screen.I have been on film sets before, butthere's lots of extras around you.So you don't have to worry about it.But here, it was just two of us and a biggreen screen everywhere.And having to create thescene in your own mind.And the creating the scene.But the whole experience was great.I mean, at the beginning, Ididn't know what to expect.And then during, itwas a bit of a workout.And then at the end,you're like, that was not bad.That wasn't as bad as Ithought it would be or difficult.But now it's just a good memory.It taught me how tolearn lines on the fly.Yeah.Yeah, because especially if things had tobe changed last minuteor something like that, it taught me howto speak up about thingsthat I needed to do the action or thescene or something like that.So if I needed help from Sacti withlearning lines or something like that,she was always there.I think towards thebeginning of it, I was like,because it was such an inthe moment thing to agree to,that I was very nervous.But by the end of it, I do feel that Ibuilt confidence with that.Well, you did mention that you weresomewhat socially awkward,which is a difficult thing then to gointo doing a whole feature film.Yeah.Talking to a green screen.Yeah.With cameras in your face.Yeah, but I highly enjoyed it.Yeah.It was so much fun.I love creating in any form.This is a questionfor both of you as well.If you could revisit one moment, wouldyou change anything?Moment or scene?My accent wasterrible, like in my opinion.After we shot it, we had to do the audio.Right.Yes, you had to redo the ADR.And my character has a US accent.Actually, we're both from Los Angeles.I thought you did great with youraccents, personally.Yeah, I would say my accent.Sorry about my accent.OK.Sounding convincing to me.No, thank you.But you had to redo themall just on mic, right?And then it was overdubbed.So you had a second go at it.I did, but I could do better.Did that make it easier?Or was it good to have a second go?No, it was good to have a second go,because then you couldclear up certain things thatdidn't work out whilst you were filming.But then you can focus orhone in on just the accentor the intonations of-- well, youcouldn't really change it,because you had to--Had to be the same, right?Same with the lips and that.Yeah, challenging.Shannon, would you change anything?Well, you can't change anything.You can't.All right.But--But would you?I feel like if we were to redo that againin a short amount of time, I think, yeah,we would obviously improve a lot.Yeah, definitely.But it has taught me a lot going intothings in the future,things that--Was a long acting class.It was.In the end.Yeah, very grateful.Yeah.Very long acting class.So how do you feelabout the next project?Well, good, because Ipicked up a lot of skills.Yeah.So it's up to you.For you, it would be the accent.Definitely the accent.That would just make thecharacter a bit more stronger,I think.Maybe work out on my muscles.Yeah.So it's a question for both of you.What was the most challenging scene?Well, mine was definitelyprobably the action fightscene.Yeah.For you, I think justall those technical words.Yeah, Michael, I had a lot of--And they were probablymade up by the director.Yeah.Yeah.One of the lines was,"Bess, protillion a die."That's brilliant.It's the next type of bat.We googled it.So we had to figure out how to say that.So could you just say that again?I can only say it inAmerican accent, but it might--my emergency."Bess, protillion a die."That's very good.Yeah, so hopefully--Yeah.I said it, hopefully.It sounded great.What does it mean?It's a type of bat.OK.We were doing a bat scene.And we didn't have a line or something.And we're like, you know what?Because your character is intelligent,we had to Google the name for a bat,because that would havemade more sense for herto say a scientific name for a bat.Yeah.So scientific names,there was probably also--Technical.Technical names forcertain things in spaceships.So there were some thingswhere I think I drove Mel crazy,because I couldn't get the word out.And one of them was, look at this.It's some tisier Ashpool setup.I just couldn't get that out.And I had to, I think,say it very fast in orderto get it out, because it's so foreign.And I found when Ilearned lines on my own,I decided how they sounded.That wasn't actually how they sounded.Yeah, of course.And then trying to do thatalso with an American accent.And in five minutes whenyou just turn up on the day.Yeah.And another one was thearea was called the Ben--oh, it's hard to say.That's hard, right?It's Ben-Cabin.Ben-Cabin.Yeah.Yeah, we had to say that 100 times.Yeah, and then Mel wouldlet me know how it was said,but she had a--has a British accent.Yeah.And that didn't help.So you're taking it fromBritish accent to American accentand trying to do the British accent.Sure.Yeah.Yeah, that would be challenging.And I guess there's a lot oftechnical terms in the filmbeing a science fiction.Yeah, she had toexplain a few things to us.Right, because, like,you know, techno babbleis key to a science fiction film.You've got to have that.So I just think accentsare quite tricky, actually.They are very tricky.To, like, nail them foran extended period of time.Because there's also different dialects of American.Because I was kind ofgoing-- at the beginning,I was going southern.And then you have theTexas or the country--The Droll.The Eastwood kind of style.Yeah, and you can't wave them.So you've got to keep continuity.And ours is supposed to be LA.Did you practice?Oh, OK, yes, in LA, kind of.Yeah, I YouTubed people from LA.Oh my god, it's so fabulous.You couldn't do that one.But I didn't even have accent like that.And then half the timewhen I was saying something,I'm like, that's so Australian.That doesn't work.Yeah.And then we both figured out--we were like, oh, we need to do--I think the first day we ever did,we both did Australian accents.Yes.And then we were like, oh, thesecharacters are American.And then we had to do American accent.Sakti and I, I think, metup half an hour before--So you decided to change to American?Or was that a direction for--No, it was already written.They had their own characters.Some were Australian.Some were Russian.Oh, yeah, the Russian.But you had to keepthat accent continuityfor the whole film.You couldn't then, as you say, like,wave her into a Clint Eastwood vibe orsomething like that.You had to stick with LA.But I think we still did.Backwards forwards to Australian.Some words, I'm like, there's no R.I can't emphasize R tosound like American now.It sounds like Australian.It's all about the R's.Yeah, a lot of thingswe learned on this film.What were some of the other things?Well, besides the words, the accents--The words, the techno-babbles, the green screen.For me, the--I was really bad at shooting the gun.Oh, OK.I was really bad at--Who made the props?She bought the guns.They were toy guns.So we look cool onlybecause of the editing.The final effect.Yeah, OK.That was it.You could just say, we're just fabulous.Nothing to do with the editing.A lot of work went into the editing.So that's big thanks to Mel and Alex.OK, well, congratulationsboth on your first feature film.Thank you.That's fantastic.Looking forward to seeingMira Maize in a couple of weeks.Thank you.Thank you.Hi, Alex.Mel, thanks very muchfor joining me todayto talk about your newfeature film, Mira Maize.It's exciting to be here.Tell us, what inspiredyou to tell this story?Well, I suppose I should take this onebecause it's my fault, really.About four or five years ago, I startedthis podcast called Angel and May aboutthese two detectives.And that had been going for a bit years.And we had defined the wholeuniverse, load of characters.We had all these stories.And I had no idea that I was goingto get involved in making a movie.And then just by chance, one of theactors in the serieswas working on a moviethat Alex was working on.That was Luke, right?You were having some issues with thesound on your movie.So he said to me, could I help?So I said, OK, yeah.So that's how I got to know Alex.And I worked on one of his movies,Doing the Sound on that movie.And while we weredoing that, I was saying,I've got all this stuff.And I was showing him the 3D modelsI've made for this website.And it sort of dawnedon me, fairly slowly,as, you know, actually,we're kind of positionedto potentially make some sort of movie.And I can't-- was it you who said wecould green screen itor something?Yeah, you sent me an email mentioningthat we could do the film.And I said, yeah, we could.We will need a green screen.We could, but it'll be very painful.[LAUGHTER]I knew it was going tobe really challenging.And it would be reallydifferent to anythingthat I've done in the past.But I thought we should give it a go.Yeah.I think-- and we both thought it would bea really good learningexercise, like thewhole green screen thing.I think the firstthing that really helped mewas that I had quite a lot of projectmanagement experience.And I thought, this is abig issue, like a big problem.We've got to make all these shots.We've got to figure out what we're doing.And so I thought, look, naturally, I'dgo into building a database.So that's where I actually started.I thought, how do weactually manage this?How did you approachbalancing the film's tone and pacing?I think the challenge was totake a quite complicated story.Because in the podcast, it can be spreadover a number of episodes.But we're making a single feature movie.And we had so much time.So a lot of it waspairing one of the story arcsdown into somethingthat would be filmable.I don't know how many versions.I mean, there was 17official versions of the script.And there's probably a loadmore before that even started.And right at the very end, we actuallydid a complete rewrite,went through everything, and took outabout 20 more pages.So we really paired it down.And then while you came in and--so Alex defined all the shots.Each page had to be broken down intomultiple little bits.In the end, we realized wewould need some 500 shots.It would be impossible tomemorize every single oneduring the actualproduction, because therewere so many things going on.Yeah.Yeah.And of course, not having made a movie,I had no real conceptwhat the real limitation was,which was the actors' availability.Because we weren'tpaying people for this.When we were actuallyshooting it on a week by week basis,we had to flex a lot.Like someone wouldsay, I've hurt my ankle.I can't come in this weekend.Inevitably, scenesinvolve more than one actor.So the problem is onething affects other actors.So then you have to scramblearound and try and find shotswith the people you know can come in.This is where theproject management thing comesinto play.Oh, yeah. So I would--So there was a lot of ducking and diving.And the only way you couldmanage that and figure outthings like, for example,costume changes were a big issue.Because you can't doone shot, then change,and then do the nextshot, because it takes an hourto change the costumes and do makeup.So what we would do is wewould kind of marshal everythingwith the same costume together.So it actually saved us.Well, I think it actually allowedus to do the film full stop.Without that, we wouldn'thave been able to do it.It would be very difficult next toimpossible, in fact.Yeah.Because--And that actuallyhappened on multiple occasions.Yeah.Oh, yeah.I was doing a lot of scrambling.You didn't even see behind the scenes.Because on Monday--we do a shoot on a Sunday.On Monday, I'd think, right,OK, what are we doing next week?And we kind of penciled thatin a couple of weeks ahead.But then I'd check people's availabilityand find there was always an issue.And multiple times, I'dprinted stuff out on Mondayand all set to go.On Wednesday, I'd find outthat something had happened.They were ill, or they had to go to afamily thing or something.It's like, oh, no.And then so I'd have to gothrough and redo them all.Just like, it was crazy.How many times?Oh, I would say 50% ofthe time we were scrambling.But you had everythingoutlined at the startso you could rearrange, I would assume.Alex had got moreexperience on doing shoots.So I think we workedquite well together, really.Because I was more worried about, OK,what shots can we do?And then you were worried about, OK,how do I set up the lightingand cameras for these shots?Yeah, do we haveeverything that we need on the day?Did you work closely on that aspectto be able to adjust andkeep that cadence goingso that you kept the project on track?We did keep it going.I mean, that was the amazing thing.It took a year and a half to shoot.But there wasn't once wherewe actually stopped, was there?We always had something to do.I think so, yeah.I think one day we had only six shots.So that was a light day.But most of the time we're doing 12shots, 14 shots a day.So what was your visual concept?Yeah, I had a concept ofwhat I thought in my headit would look like.Did it come from the artwork that was--Yes, yes.Those renders, the rendersthat were on the website?Yeah, so it was kind of based on that.But then what happenedis when we were actuallygoing through, werealized some of the spaceswe actually couldn't usewere too small, physically toosmall.Some that just didn't look right.So I think I madeabout two or three changesto some of the locations.But most of them are good.On the day, I would say90% of the time out of whatwe made in the shotlist, we would actuallyneed to change it on theday because we would quicklyrealize that it wasbecause of some spacing issues,we actually have to relocate characters.And sometimes it wouldinvolve redoing the whole shoton the go.Yes.But well planned out.And it worked out in the end, obviously.The actual map wasn't really usefulbecause, like I mentioned earlier,a lot of times it justdidn't work the way we plannedto originally because on the day,we would set up thecamera, look at everything.And either lightingwouldn't work or the spacing justwouldn't look right on the camera.So looking at the space, I'd quicklyclose my eyes and think,so what does it look like?OK, how can we redo it?Where is the lighting going to be?And then once I have this whole imageprojected in my head,I would try and replicate itin front of a green screen.To get that continuity aswell between different scenes.We had a very limited space.We had probably four square meters maybe,once you put the lights in the room.It was the biggest problem,is the actual space limitationsbecause having all the slides which wouldbe in the shot, whichwould otherwise work for the space,but then you have a light that has to bein a particular place.Let's see.It's there.And we need to eliminate it.So we need to move the actors again.Then you have to explain to the actors,like, OK, so you're notstanding there anymore.You're standing here.So just keep in mind.Our actors did really well because itwas really mentally difficult for themto actually see wherethey are because they'rejust in this green box.Yeah, very challenging.It was.It was also really exciting for mebecause I'd processthe shots sort of Monday.Within a couple of days, I'd removed allof the green screen.And then once you put the actors intoagainst the background,it sort of comes alive.That was really excitingfor me, like actually seeingit look like a real space.It was there.And I thought, oh,that really looks real.Yeah, well, so not only is everythingshot out of sequence,but there's a greenscreen and nothing necessarilybehind the actors.So everyone has to pull together and gettheir imagination onto really deliver it.And then when you see it when it's fullyrendered and you're like,wow, there it is.The biggest problem we'vehad during actual productionis the green screenspill on extra spaces.Yeah.That's where thelimitation was even worsebecause we might have hadfour square meters of space,but the actors could only use two metersbecause once they getcloser to the green screen,then you get that spill.And then when you putit in post-production,half the face would disappear.Yeah.Yeah, it's very hard.I had to do a lot of magic masking.And then there was onecharacter, one character,where we basically did everything wrong.Like we made her so shehad big fuzzy sort of hair.And then we noticed afterwe'd actually been shootingwith this costume for about a month,we noticed there were green, like greensort of yellow shapesin her costume.Which software would interpret this greenand make it half invisible?Yeah.So, you know, a lot ofit we could chroma key,but some of it we had to magic mask,which is anothertechnique and it's very slow.So it was probably, yeah, you're right.It was the biggest challenge, wasn't it?Just doing the masking andmaking it look real and right.Because the space itself wasn't as small,but we could always use asmall portion of it at a time.And we had this lighting issue as well,which is kind of,because initially we usedcolored lights, didn't we?And then we moved awayfrom that once we realizedwhere it was unnecessaryand could do it all in post,like colorization.Yeah, we didn't have to usehairless saturated lighting afterwards,because for one,there was less controlin the editing software,because once you havepurple on their face,you can't really edit it out.And also if you use the light,that's not as saturated.Not only if you have morecontrol in the editing software,but if you need tochange the hue a little bit,it actually becomes possible.Yes, and it kind of masksany green spill as well,more effectively, I think.So you tended to use neutral.And also, it would beworth mentioning thatthe way we started filmingand the way we finished filming,like all the way through,when did we start shooting him?That was so long ago, I really,like in months one,our techniques were completely differentto our last months of filming,which basically made usreshoot a lot of stuff as well.Yeah, we did reshoot some stuff.But we realized if weactually looked betterthan what we've shot originally.We managed to get through though.Yes, moving on to the cast.How did you choose thecast and what qualities?Okay, so this isdefinitely an Alex question,because he had more experience.We were both involved,but I would say when it comes to casting,to me personally,the biggest thing is the way actor talks.Because when youenvision a certain character,the first thing that you'llnotice is the way they talk.So if you need thecharacter to speak slowly,you can't have an actor who speaks fast,that's an example.You're taking on theirbaseline qualities for...See the way a person acts in real lifeand whether their wayof talking and movingis actual matching towhat we were thinkingfor the character.Did you both have similar ideas thenof what each character should be?Because obviously Melbeing a writer and director.Yeah, like so we hadideas when we first started.I kind of could say,we're roughly this age,but then you've got to compromisebecause you just don't have a vast arrayof people we can select from.Did you havedisagreements about the castingor did you both work together?I think we had some issues with castbut proving to be unreliable.So we cast some people and we did a readand then it was clearly evidentthat they weren't that interested.So we had to do a massivereadjustment quite early on.And then one character who actually shota few scenes with her.Yeah, yeah.And do you have many, many actorsfrom the radio show come into?No, less than I thoughtbecause the problem wasthat there's some very goodactors that do the radio show.However, they wereabout 20 years too old.So they're okay for radio,but they didn't make the film cast.Only two that one wereboth willing to do itand actually wereappropriate for the character.So yes, the overlap wasn't as largeas I thought it was gonna be.Yeah.Okay, and neither of the two leadsare actually in the audio podcastbecause the two leadswe had in the podcastwere much older in real lifeand couldn't really do the movie.Were there any otherqualities that you were looking for?You mentioned, you know,that the centralcharacter had to sort of match.To me, this film was moreof a personal adjustmentbecause normally with my films,I always write the script myself.Well, it was different with this film.So I actually had to usethe original author's ideasof what the characters arebecause she developed them.Yeah.I couldn't have done itwithout Alex's knowledgeof the actors because he workedwith quite a few people over the yearsand we needed peoplethat were gonna be reliablebecause it was such a big project.I mean, there was a lot of worrythat you'd get like a third of the way inand then someone would just say,no, I'm not gonna do it.Well, it could kill the project.So I think reliability was really themost important thing.Like once they could do it,it was an, okay, are they reliable?Are they gonna turn up on time?That was a big level of stress.Yeah, it was.Yeah.Perhaps the biggest one in fact.I mean, we were very lucky in thatif you look at the script and analyze it,90% of the dialogue is to lead charactersbecause it's a detective series.There's a lot of toing and frayingbetween those people.And luckily we managed to find peoplethat one were willingto give up the time,but two were very reliable.If they had been proven to be unreliable,I think I would have given up.Apart fromreliability, were there any other?Well, obviously theirability to remember lines.Yes, credibility,whether they come across.And the interestingthing is the characterswe actually picked were differentfrom what I'denvisaged in my head slightly,but actually after filming for a while,you just can't rememberthat you had a different image.Yeah, the way theydevelop a life of their own.And then with Alex's other films,he knew who would do the roles.So actually between us,I think we managed to pull it together,which was actually oneof the biggest challengesof getting the projectoff the ground, really.It wasn't the technical aspects.I mean, they wereinteresting, but the people,if you can't have reliable peoplethat are willing to givetheir time and turn up,then you're dead in the water.The project's never going to happen.That sort of leads meon to my next question,which is what were, if any,of the majorchallenges during production?What were your major challenges?That really potentiallywould change the plan.We touched on this before, but...Well, the way I saw itand the way we worked,it was like a jigsawwhere we were basically tryingto get as many piecescaptured as quickly as possible.Sure. But was there anything particularthat stands out to you both?So think of somethingthat's particularly significant.Oh, because we had to film outside.We didn't really haveany control of the lights.And when you don't havethe control of the light,it makes the scene really difficult.So outdoor shooting was challenging.Yeah, wind.Do you remember that daywhen we had the green screenwas flapping in the wind?(both laughing)Yeah, it was challenging.Did anything occur thatreally made you have to change?There were no disasters, but sometimes,I'm pretty sure ithappened a couple of timeswhen on the day we wouldfind out someone cannot make it.And there were things thatwe never thought would work,but we just threw them inand they worked brilliantly.It was like that manholething that just worked.It was like, I didn'tthink it was gonna work.I think we only just didit as an experiment, really.Yeah.Okay.Can you describe your collaborationwith the cinematographer and production?From my experience in old productions,I've always had some kindof clashes with my producers.It's just part of life.And at the end of the day,you just have tocompromise because sometimeswhat director doesand what producer does,it clashes.So both of them have tocompromise and if they won't,it's just not going to be.It's probably harder for youbecause I'd done so much of thedefinition of the moviebecause I have the 3Dmodels and I kind of knew thembecause I'd worked withthem on the computer so much.I knew them more than you did.Sometimes I had to,I did most of this in the cinematographerand sometimes, in fact, not sometimes,most of the times I would say,I would have to consult a melon.Okay, I see what's inthe shot on the laptop.Can you describe thespace for me a bit better?Yeah.And sometimes I'd get confused.Like you have to realize,because it's hardestwhen we were rotating thingsbecause we couldn't have the lights in.So we had to literally do asort of 90 degree rotationand then you get confused.Is it left or is it right?I'd have to check with Mel,whereas this particularentrance is on the right or left.Yeah.Did the collaborationbetween you both get easieras the longer productionwent on, you would have...I think we worked like one mechanism,but occasionallythere were confusing bits.But still, I would say itwould only take a coupleof minutes to figure out.Yeah, I think that whathelped us was a lot of it waswe had a lot of planning.So we knew what shots we were doing.We knew that, and we had asystem where we could print outthe dialogue for theactors just for those shots.So they weren't beingoverwhelmed with the long script.And they would be, oftenthey would be practicingthe shot we were about to shoot whilewe're doing the setup.And then we'd come in and...I mean, there were days when it draggedand we'd done a lot oftakes and you get to a pointwhere you just think, "Oh, we'll see."Yeah, when you have 15shots and then you realizethat after...Not shots, takes.When you have 15 takes andyou realize that after take 10,it's only getting worse.Yes, yeah.So there were a couple oftimes, I think, where we stoppedand then that shot wouldcreep in maybe six months laterand it would just go really smooth.So it was a bit ofrecycling, not too much.Well, you'd keep the shot, but you mightsort of flag it as...I kept every take.And the early oneswhere there's obvious fluffsor I delete those,because just from brevity...Would you have anagreement after a shot was donethat you may go back and redo it?Either in the emailor throughout the week,we would catch upwith Marilyn, she'd say,"Look, this is what Ithink about the shot.I don't think it's really good, but doyou think about it?"And I would say that 100% ofthe times we actually agreed.We did agree.I think visually we're quite aligned.I mean, we did a wholeprocess of color grading togetherbecause that was probably another...You say what was the most challenging.I think the color grading was pretty...At the end, yeah.It was very difficult to get it.Especially with thosechallenging scenes in the sun.Yeah.Matching up those shots was...Matching the colorgradient with the rest of the...There were at least twoshots, which were good shots,but we just couldn't usethem because you just could tellin the movie that therewas too much of a change.Actually, it sort of leadsme into the next questionabout post-production.How did post-production shape the finalversion of the film?Well, Alex started doing the processing.We kind of quicklyrealized you work in Adobe World.I work in Resolve World with Da Vinci.And just the file sizesand carrying them backwith some flaws is a pain.We're not on a network or something.So it's all done with USB sticks.Did you both do a lotof time editing together?Editing, shot and backgrounds.And so in the end, we justdecided that it's not really...What's the word, feasible?Yeah, it was just too much...It was adding more workand it was actually...Who did most of theediting in post-production?Well, the problem is,Mark, that we'd shoot a shotand we'd plan it all and shoot it.And then what would happen is you realizethat the renderedbackground didn't quite matchwhere we'd photographedit from in the real world.So then I'd have to go back in that weekand re-render thebackdrops to match the reality.And Alex didn't have the software.Even if he'd taken out theshots from the green screens,it would still mean thatI'd have to do a lot of work.So it's easier just tokeep it all in the same box.And I would sort oflook at the backgroundand maybe on some of them, Ihad to do 11 different goesto get the backdrop to beexactly the right perspectiveand parallax and look real.Which takes a lot of time.It's hard. It's hard to do.And what made it worsewas I kind of decidedthat it makes it come aliveif the backgroundactually has some moving things.That meant you had tore-render not just one,but two or 300 frames,which can take overnight render.So there's a lot more to it.But was there a particularscene that you can rememberwas extremely difficult to get right?Yeah, the corridor scene.That was hard, wasn't it?One that sort of stands out as,was it from thecomputing and rendering sideor was it a live-Continuity.Continuity, yeah.Like they were walkingthrough this corridorand where the doors were and stuff.It was confusing, wasn't it?It was hard to shoot.Yeah, some of the corridor sceneswere the girlsplaying the lead character.They were walking in front of lights atthe time of filming.Yeah.Oh yeah.Actually, some of themworked out pretty well.Well, that's my explanation.Yeah, it was.And it was like we hadto magic mask those ones.And I actually had tomanually airbrush some of them.It was a labor of love.I think there's any way to describe it.And hate.It started to become a labor of hate.It started to make sense.A bit painful to-Especially the early shots actually.It was the ones when we had those lightswith the tip we put the tin foil over.Yeah.Oh my God, they were a nightmare.Well, let's now look atchanging tack a little bit,looking at what's the message of the filmif we look at it fromthe audience's perspective.Let's be clear about it.It's a sort of light comedy.I would like the peopleto love the characters.That's what's important to me.I mean, the story-Well, they already have a following.They do.We've got the podcast andit's had 17,000 listens.So it's not-You know, the story is relatively simple.It's a kidnap, sort of go in and rescue.And the reason we pickedthat particular story actually,it was deliberate, was that we thought,well, with thecomputer-based backgrounds,we could, and the factthat it looks slightly unreal,it sort of plays intothat to a certain extent.So it doesn't matter oncethey're inside the Mira Mays,we can do more fantasticalbackgrounds, which we did.And we can have more special effects.So we thought that'd be fun.So the story is relatively simple.It's like they rescuesomeone, they get reward,you know, reward, and they get there.It's all building up to them gettingtheir detective agency,which hopefully will lead on to morestorytelling, right?So this is a simplestory, but it sets the stagefor some morecomplicated stories later on,if we do follow up.So what did you feel?Did you end up liking the characters?Did you-They certainly got more intimate with metowards the end of filming.I feel not just as the characters,but with the actors as well.There's some new, I'll leave that testfrom the previous films,but we only worked brieflybecause all my previousprojects were much simplerbecause I'm doinghorror and it's normally,it normally doesn'tinvolve any green screen usage.And so it was filmed much faster.All these projects taking us over a year.Yeah.And they've gotten really intimate, so.I'd like to think that, I mean,I think the atmosphere on setwas pretty light, pretty good.There were a couple ofheavy moments, but I mean,in a year, we actually filmed for a yearand a half, actually.It was more than a year.Unlike a lot ofprojects that I was a part of,this one reallybecame like a family thing.Right.It was just because of a pure of timing.For the extended amountof time that you involved.Oh, that's lovely.How do you feel that it fits in withyour broader body of work?It's very, very different.You mentioned the green screen.It actually doesn't fit.The length of time it's taken.It actually doesn't fitinto anything that I've donein the past because I wasalways horror only director.But I thought I might dosomething colorful for changebecause most of my filmswere more of dark and grayin their field.And I thought this might besomething that's going to bea bit of like breath offresh air, I would say.So quite different is the answer.So it doesn't reallyfit in the sense that it'sa legacy of my previous projects.It's actuallysomething completely different.And Mel, this is your first feature film.I learned a hell of alot from you actually.Like just watching you in the camera.And I learned a lot about editing.I'd use Resolve, but Iwould need to do a fewlike simple music video stuff.This was really using it pretty heavy.A lot of the maskingstuff, I really got into that.So it's like most things asyou use it, you learn just--It certainly adds on to music production.Yeah, and even just doing the sound.I mean, I had a prettyfirm base because reallyit was very similar towhat we've been doingwith Angel and May, butthere's a lot of differences.Like this was mixed in 5.1.Okay, so I had to learnhow the surround sound works.And then there was a wholeexercise of doing the ADR,which was, we thoughtfor first we could usethe onset recordedsound and there's AI toursthat you can use to clean it up.And they're remarkable, theydo clean it up quite a lot.But it still sounds boxy andit doesn't sound cinematic.And so I sort of took thedifficult decision like,oh my God, we've gotanother month plus re-recordingall of the actors.All of the voiceover. All of the voices.And so that was like, oh, you know,but it was well worth it.It was worth it in the end.I think so, because oneof the comments we gotfrom the distributorwas the sound is greatfor an independent movie, it soundsHollywood, you know?Yeah, so that's really good feedback.It was also new to a lot of actorsbecause they've neverdone anything like it.Yeah.So it does fit in with your broader body.Oh, it does, yeah.And in fact, you couldeasily release just the soundtrackas on the podcast actually,as just another sort ofextension of the universe.I'm proud of what we've achievedbecause thelimitations of what we could dowere quite large, like wecouldn't move the camerabecause we couldn't dothat in the virtual worldand then match them up.We also had a very limitedsmall space under a house.We had to make itlook like a big universe.And the other thing was wecouldn't really have peoplepopulating the world.If there's one criticism ofthe movie is this characters,but then there's notmany other people around,but we just couldn't do that.Like we didn't have a big sound stage.We couldn't have extras.We couldn't have like large sets.So, but we managed to actually shoot afeature length movieand it doesn't lookterrible under a house, you know,for virtually no money.On a very small stage.On a very small stage, yeah.And it kind of worked.So what's next for both of you?I think it depends how it goes.Is this gonna be successful?If it is and people like it,then I'm up for making another one.And what about you, Alex?Well.Back to horror or?Back to horror for my next film.Like Mel said, we haveto see how this one goesbefore making any further decisions.Would you go back to green screen?Lately I've moved intocreating this found footage.I just had to see how everything--I think there's more into reactionwith the actual physicalbackground in your movies.So it'd be hard to do it green screen.Cause you can't really,you can do certain elements,but there's a lot ofopening and closing and doorsand running around.Yeah.Also with foundfootage because it's handheldmost of the time.Green screen, I mean,technically could do it.Yeah, that would be hard.Yeah, but I'm still impressed the waywe managed to have this incarbon shot in mirror mace.Oh yeah.Because everyone was filmed separately.But we managed to have--We composited that together.That was a bit of anightmare, but it worked.The protest scene or?Yeah, the protest scene.I think I remember that one.It looked a lot better than, yeah.Cause you're in the background.I might be in the background.Yes, you're unrecognizable, Omar.Yeah. Yeah, look, I think--I mean incognito.Incognito.I mean, it's funny thethings we managed to get to work.I think the weaknesses arethe general special effectslike pyrotechnics, like wecouldn't do that obviously.So they're faked in andthey don't look super real.They look a bit cheesy.Yeah, there was lots of limitations.We couldn't really have piles of bloodbecause we couldn'tafford to buy the bloodto spray over the characters.And then the mess it would make and--Well, we'll have to see what--See what happens.See what happens in the future.But thank you bothvery much for coming inand having a chat aboutthe exciting new production,Miramaze.

Melanie Blizard

Host