Friends, friends, friends....we made it!!!
I can't believe it's the end of the damn year! But it's here. I swear, it feels like yesterday we were ringing in 2020 and positioning ourselves to start this new decade with a BANG.
But hey, life had other plans for us, and HERE WE ARE.
I typically like to use the last days of the year to look at how my year was and what I plan to prioritize in the upcoming year.
Friends, there was a lot this year. To be candid -- once COVID and quarantine hit, I got hit with a bad case of depression, and the death of my friend/mentor rocked me more on top of that.
This year, it was about humility. And giving myself the grace to be depressed and not giving myself guilt over it. And man, it was hard, but I got there.
In this episode, I want to talk about some of the nuggets that I landed on to usher me into 2021. Lacey and Nik from the Sober Company podcast also joined me to chop it up about 2020 too. I like to consider it a conversational inventory, which I encourage you to either do on your own OR gather some friends and dive deep into what this year really meant to you.
We discussed:
I hope you enjoy this episode. It's more conversational in most, but I wanted it to be a lil' loose as we head into the unknown of 2021.
----------
Stay safe out there, friends! Here is the link to some online AA meetings.
If you're looking for a black therapist or resources, check this out!
And as always, thank you for listening to my lovely show. If possible, I would love for you to review me on iTunes, Google, Stitcher -- anywhere, really.
If you have comments or suggestions, feel free to hit me up via the ways below! And sign up for my mailing list. I do like to do giveaways from time to time.
Friends, friends, friends....we made it!!!
I can't believe it's the end of the damn year! But it's here. I swear, it feels like yesterday we were ringing in 2020 and positioning ourselves to start this new decade with a BANG.
But hey, life had other plans for us, and HERE WE ARE.
I typically like to use the last days of the year to look at how my year was and what I plan to prioritize in the upcoming year.
Friends, there was a lot this year. To be candid -- once COVID and quarantine hit, I got hit with a bad case of depression, and the death of my friend/mentor rocked me more on top of that.
This year, it was about humility. And giving myself the grace to be depressed and not giving myself guilt over it. And man, it was hard, but I got there.
In this episode, I want to talk about some of the nuggets that I landed on to usher me into 2021. Lacey and Nik from the Sober Company podcast also joined me to chop it up about 2020 too. I like to consider it a conversational inventory, which I encourage you to either do on your own OR gather some friends and dive deep into what this year really meant to you.
We discussed:
I hope you enjoy this episode. It's more conversational in most, but I wanted it to be a lil' loose as we head into the unknown of 2021.
----------
Stay safe out there, friends! Here is the link to some online AA meetings.
If you're looking for a black therapist or resources, check this out!
And as always, thank you for listening to my lovely show. If possible, I would love for you to review me on iTunes, Google, Stitcher -- anywhere, really.
If you have comments or suggestions, feel free to hit me up via the ways below! And sign up for my mailing list. I do like to do giveaways from time to time.
Hello, my name is Cynthia, welcome to the latest episode of getting together a podcast where we discuss what it's like to get it all the way together or at least attempt to one day at a time. Hey everybody, today we're doing the end of year episode recap, it's going to be short and sweet. Everybody knows 2020 was a special year is a clusterfuck. It was so many things had some highs, some extreme lows. And I'm looking forward to turning the page into 2021. November, I was so excited about 2020 new decade and then it happened and COVID and everything else spiraled out from there. So there's a lot about always been one of these people that look at the end of the year and think about where I want to go into the next year, even when I was like very, very depressed, right? This year, I'm going to be a little candidate, like this year, I was depressed, like a lot, I gained so much weight from just COVID. And I didn't even realize I was depressed, like just from work and the sudden change of like my rhythm and my patterns kind of jarred me for a bit. And I'm now at this point now, towards the end of the year where I'm feeling like, okay, I feel like myself, I can kind of get back into this rhythm or define whatever this new rhythm is going to be. I have a new job. I'm in a relationship that I've been in for almost a year, which we got together right before COVID. So that was all very new. I'm doing this podcast, I started another podcast, and I'm working on other things. So there's just a lot of things that happened. For the recap, I think for me, the one key word or thought, for me for 2020 is just been as always compassion, but I think humility, because I really had to be okay with not being okay for a while. And that was hard, because I'm very much of a person that needs to find the answer a person that likes to keep going forward a person that has to not feel stuck. And just for a while I just felt stuck, I even stopped creating content for the show for a bit, my mind just wasn't into it like it used to be. Because I just didn't feel like me. I surprisingly, didn't have an urge to go back to like drinking because I do feel like my recovery has been key to me being able to even keep going as forward even though I was going like a very snail like pace for a while. But I think just knowing that it's okay to say that you're not okay, and that you don't have a figured all the way out. I pride myself I'm just being very honest about where I am. And what I'm about. And my recovery journey hasn't been linear. And there's stuff that I'm working on, I know my stuff with food came back, not necessarily on the scale as it used to be, I didn't dip too far into it. But it was teetering on that you know, but I have the ability, at least now to kind of acknowledge it and see it for what it is and not make an excuse or feel guilt about it. So there's a level of that and it's also getting used to being with someone and having them see you and still care about you and still love you and not feel so on edge are anxious about it. And I think that was one of my key things for 2020 I lost someone that was like my mentor and that really kind of set me off on a spiral because she was probably one of the few people that saw me probably saw me before I really saw myself and I miss her and then I will always miss her because she was just an amazing beacon of light. But I have decided to really honor her by really being as bold as I can be. And I didn't have the strength until I had to really confront and sit with how I was really feeling about my life and that it's a really okay to speak these things out loud I you can be good at your job great at it even and it not be what you want. And another thing that I really enjoyed was just being able to do that more on my show because I've learned from so much of the other people that were on my show and people that I've interviewed and I'm really excited to keep going and growing that more in 2021 but also just having a voice and being true about my story like I am someone that will never be perfect and I'm okay with that. And I think 2020 showed me that there's a lot I don't know still and I probably won't ever but I am okay with that because that's just life and I had a lot I have a lot of people are had people in my corner. Like I said, My mentor who I feel like she's still there, even though she isn't here physically, really just hold me down because I didn't realize what I needed. Or I'm still learning to articulate everything that I need. So yeah, this one I really wanted to share with two people that I met in recovery and they asked me to be On their show, sober company. And I really enjoyed talking to them. And I enjoyed meeting them in person and having a lot of commonality. And we're all around the same age as a school, I don't really meet a lot of people around my age doing this type of thing. So I always like that, and I wanted to kind of have them on the show is like a book and to kind of Usher us into the next year. So I'm really excited that Lacey and Nick decided to be on the show. And we talked about our 2020 experience, like what we went through things that we're doing differently, things we didn't expect, where we hope to go in the next year for our shows, and life. And just getting all into it. I hope that you enjoy this conversation. And with all three of us, I'm actually working on getting the video together. So I will post the full video unedited, or lightly edited on YouTube, because I'm going to start exploring that realm in 2021. So definitely make sure to share that out with you guys. But in the meantime, I hope you enjoy this interview and see you guys in 2021. All right, Lacey. And Nick, let's take it away. So basically, for this, I wanted to circle back because I really enjoyed being on your show, I really just wanted to dial back in with you guys. And really think about like, if someone asks you about your 2020, what would have been your overall impressions of it? It could be what you're feeling like, as an individual, it could be what you've discovered on the silver company podcast, but I really would just like to know, like, where your mind is that next more complicated than I maybe I have different like, I think my like 2020 was broken up into a few different phases. I would like to hear from you first, actually, I think it's I had this personal experience, but it was obviously what was going on nationally greatly affected my personal experience as well as my recovery. I think it was difficult and terrible. But it leaves me with hope, or further change and revolution. That's what's up. All right, Nick, you're up. I mean, 2020 start off being and for me, like it was great. Like, I remember last year, like we did this, like intention setting ceremony for the new years. And like I had, like, all these goals and all these things I wanted to accomplish, you know, January and February were great. And then March, it's kind of like, all these things started, like just crumbling down. And I lost track of like those things, the bigger picture and I might focus, like very narrowly focused into like, what was going on, like immediately in the world. And I think I lost track of some of the bigger picture things for me. And that was very, like negative for me in terms of my recovery. And so a lot of the practices that I had been following, like pre that time, I kind of just shoved out of the way and kind of like spiraled into like the news cycle, the economy, the stock market in particular. And just like all like the crazy minutia of following the news, and really like getting spiraled out on that stuff. So we took me in like a totally different direction than I thought I was headed. In the beginning of the year, I don't really want to put like positive or negative on it, but like it is what it was, but it taught me a lot about like how I actually need to have like some foundation in my life and some rituals and, and things that I need to go back to. Otherwise, if I don't have those things, it's very easy for me to like grab on to things. And you know, in particular, like my recovery, it wasn't so much like drugs and alcohol. But it did go through a phase where I was really into the stock options and gambling and things like that, which is a very like it was a similar type of feeling to me like as alcohol I was still getting like dopamine hits and similar sorts of things like I was getting that sort of need met and really not not focused on my recovery. So yeah, that took me in a whole new direction. Or I started going to like gamblers anonymous meetings and things like that, and discovering this whole other side of like process addictions and things like that. And you know, then coming back out of that back into sort of feeling like I wanted to do drugs and alcohol again. And yeah, it was hard this year. My recovery was really hard this year, but this was actually the first year that I was like completely sober for a full year so I celebrated like sobriety in September so it's kind of weird that it was like this was the year that I actually did it I've been in recovery for like five or six years and this was the year that I actually was able to do that. So yeah, I did have a lot of support and I'm currently living my parents and they've been really support people and like the recovery community has been super support full so I learned really like the value of this community and especially like the podcast I dropped out of the podcast for a while but Lacey was like always they are checking in with me so much gratitude to Lacey for like keeping me on track because yeah, if I didn't have all the support, I don't think I would have been able to stay sober this year. Okay. And then when did you start noticing your process your process addiction when it came to gambling like so what made you say like, Okay, this is enough. I need to really go and talk about this. I really have a problem like oh god Yeah, I don't know it's been this thing that I've been doing this for like the past five years like on the side kind of these like this stock options gambling thing and it really wasn't. I never thought it was a problem. I thought like you said it's like drinking tea you never think it's a problem until it becomes a problem. Yeah, I just I couldn't sleep at night I would basically like be watching like the news and like futures on the market all throughout the night, trying to like figure out what was going to go on like, the next day, I couldn't really like disengage myself from it anywhere I would be I'd be on my phone checking like up to the minute what was going on with the market. Everyone heard this app Robin Hood like now like it took off like big cuz like day trading was such a thing. That thing was like crack to me because it's a normal like stock app, you kind of just like see it in there. But this like you see it up to the minute and it's super, super addicting. There'd be days where I would just like follow the little chart going up and down. You know, that was a point where I just like I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. I was having trouble just focusing. I started getting this like ringing in my ears. I was just constantly stressed out all the time thinking about this stuff, you know? And just, I got super depressed over it. Are you still on Robin Hood? Or did you have to get rid of it? Get rid of it, but I am still on it. So but not to like the extent that I was on it before. So yeah, that was like really, I don't know. It's just like this really like humbling experience to when you think you like you, you can do something. And then it's just like, wow, this really taught me about like about things that you think you're in control of stuff, and you're totally not in control at all, you know, so I had to like, like everything I put like boundaries and limits around myself. And like kind of like managing it that way. It's still something I enjoy doing. I know that it can take on a life of its own if I'm not careful about it, and actually want to talk about boundaries and like types of things that you're doing now just to keep yourself in check or balance as much as one can be. But Lacey, I don't know if you have anything when it comes to your overall recovery and things that you noticed within 2020. So I guess since you have talked to you about this before, but for me what came to kind of the surface or what kind of came to relief in my recovery is more my relationship, my romantic relationships. I think it's true that once you kind of like I've I've started this recovery process four and a half years ago, and I've gone through phases of kind of looking at it knowing that I was being unhealthy and not treating myself well. But I think this pandemic allowed me to really look at it more, I started online dating during the pandemic, pretty early, I want to say May. And I was hopeful that the people on the apps would somehow become better people because of them. I don't know and that culture would somehow shifts. And it did shifts, but I wouldn't say it was so for the better. And I just you've talked about this before Cynthia, of really having to take the time when you get sober to be by yourself fully. And I think I became a pretty obsessive about trying to find someone whether like in my own neighborhood, my neighborhood is very, it's like a barren wasteland for people our age, who are like available, it just was feeling very desperate. And that didn't feel good to me. And I realized I could pin that back because of the work I've done in recovery. Like I could pin that back to self worth and knowing. And so I started to look out and look at Oh, what about sex and love anonymous I don't identify as a sex addicts, but like that kind of love and fantasy that kind of a co like, feminine experience, what we're kind of sold in the movies and all of that, that really, I think that really affected me, you know, it's really like shaped my brain and how I look at that stuff. So I was looking into that but I realized that was still going outward and looking at my interactions with people as opposed to going really inward and be like no, I'm I need to root in myself so that I always go back to me as opposed to like what the other person wants what the other person is expecting what I think the other person's needs so that they don't leave me or that they want me and all of that so I I've been taking the time to try and route in myself and you know, being by myself all the time i think is helping with that. It's like a natural you know, assistant to that. But yeah, that's kind of been my my new project or recovery. And I worked with my therapist with it to develop a plan and you know, like no dating No, nothing until the spring basically. So okay, yeah. All right. I think that's cool, though. Yeah. Do you want to talk about how your recovery or is this just like a one sided? Oh, yes. Let's just be one sided Shelly? No, I think for my recovery, actually, when it comes to alcohol was fine. I don't really have a lot of issues there. But I think similar. There's like always something that's crazy. up, I didn't realize that I was quite depressed this year, because I'm just kind of used to just cycling through things and just figuring like, well, it's in a pandemic, everybody's kind of in a weird state, and just kind of downplaying, which is something I'm quick to do. But I think I caught on to the fact that I was depressed, but I really just said, like, you know, avoiding it, and just being okay, with where I was, that was a very humbling thing, just to just be okay, and just sit in it, because my first year going into my second, but it's like, I felt so great, like my first year. And then it's like the second and like, the terrible twos are going towards that. I really just had to sit in all this stuff and not having my familiar things. Realizing like I noticed, like, my thing with like, food was starting to come back a little bit and just figuring all that stuff out. But just really focusing on what feels good to me and just being okay with that. And, and I will talk about this, I've talked about it on my show like that guilt and shame, and just really working on really being kind to myself again, and keeping up with that work, I should say like, so I revisited self compassion book, and I did whole thing on it. Because you're always growing and so quick to fall back into things because you're looking at what's going on the world. And you're like, everything's fine, right now. So why not? You know, it's just, and then it's like that one day ends up being one week, one month, and then you're like, it's been five, six months, and what's happening. So I think like, similar to what Nick was saying, like, making sure I'm still grounded in the fundamentals, going to meetings, talking to people, and just really just being okay with where I am, and not trying to make myself feel bad, because I think that I should be somewhere else. definitely feel you like the depression thing. Like, I definitely fell into that. And I thought, like, I was just looking for quick fixes, you know, and it's like, you get that hit. And it's not, you just want more, it's it taught me a lot about like craving. And like, it was never enough. Even when you get something you just want more and more of it. Because it was this thing outside of myself, this process that you're talking about, about actually just sitting with it and being like, okay, I feel it right now. But that's okay. I don't need to fix that. You know what I mean? That's kind of like what got me out of it, you know, but it's so hard to do was here to, to get that fake kind of feeling, which doesn't matter. But yeah, it's definitely a process. I'm still working on it. One of the things that really helped me was like, I could tell during that period, I wasn't moving at all. I got like an activity tracker. And like you could see throughout the year, it directly correlates to like my movement. And I saw like the times I was happier it was when I was moving a lot more, especially when you're in lockdown and quarantine, you're just not moving around. There were days where I would just sit inside my house and not leave my seat the entire day. So I don't know if you guys have that experience to movement. Yeah, it definitely does help. And I've had to really like scheduled in my day because I work in advertising. I'm probably told you guys but and I got a new job. And so it's I've been fully remote since I've started a new gig. It's learning how to do like that work life balance now, because I love working remote. I know I'm Nick Lacey told me you're not necessarily a fan of it. But I it's like, you know, I know I get it sort of like that routine. But I also feel like your work life balance kind of like suffers in a way. Because people think that you have they have all this access to you because you don't have to commute. Everyone's locked down. Where are you going type of thing, even if they don't say that. But I think it's like you get wrapped up in your head like, well, what are they going to say? because technically, nothing's open. So why do I have to sign up at 5am but it's like me, like rattling myself up. And so I would have these periods of just like working like non stop. And and I had to say like, this is not good for my well being to just feel like I'm going to sleep just to get up to work again. So I've had to schedule in, like brakes on my calendar and just block that I'm busy. And I'll get up and walk around even if it's just walking outside if it's a workout or something because I need to enforce it for me, which is something that's also new, because I'm usually I have like tendency to be a workaholic too. So it's like I have to watch that. So I'm with you. I'm getting used to the work from home now too. But yeah, it was like it's a transition period and it'll like totally you totally can get sucked into it. The way I was quote unquote taking breaks was like I'll just slip to the other monitor and trade on the stock. Like breaking all I just stressed me out more to get and then I get back to work and be stressed out more. I've been like going out in nature and like hiking and running that kind of break is so much better it actually like refuels me to do that. So now I know I noticed that my mental health got better right in the beginning which I know I have to be grateful for. I'm grateful for that. I stopped biting my nails my nails grew long for the first time in my life. I stopped compulsive eating I realized how much I was compulsive eating just by not working eat I just saw my behavior change and I just other people's eyes. energies, like really affect me, if someone has a lot of anxiety or is really, you know, submissive, or, you know, just different personnel, they, like I take it all in and I become that, I guess, Moses or something, and it's not good for me. And so I've just found that I've become more rooted in my values and my ethics and what I think is important in standing up for what I you know what I mean? Like, like in work, like, all of that is because I'm just not being affected by other people. Basically. That's awesome, though. Yeah, it felt good. It felt good. So what does like for both of you guys like so what is one thing that you really learned that maybe you weren't expecting to learn about in this year and during your recovery, or just life in general, or even on the show? And then to follow up with that, like, What is one thing that you learned to accept about yourself that may have been hard for you to really admit to? And you just kind of said, like, you know, it is what it is? Yeah, I mean, I definitely like think like, there was this time, like, last year, like, I went through this meditation teacher program. And I thought, like I was, so on top of my show, like, I like there was a lot of like, I suppose it's pride, but also just like, not like arrogance, almost that I was like, I can meditate so good. I'm so like, evolved, like, I'm like, you know, I was like, on top of the world, you know what I mean, I was like, everything was going well, and I didn't realize like, how much of my self worth was, like, wrapped up in these things. And like it, the thing that I realized about myself was like, this whole money thing, and like, how much of my self worth was, like, wrapped up in money, you know, like, if it went up a few points, I'd feel really good. And if it went down a few points, I'd feel like, you know, and it was like, I didn't realize how much of that was, like, wrapped up in my self worth. And that was, like, really not, it was like, trying to hold these two sides of like, I'm really like, this spiritual, like Buddhist person. But at the same time, the super capitalist, I don't want to make like a lot of money. There were like, two incompatible things that I'm like, holding in between myself. And like, they're, like, different parts of me. They're not like the real me. But like, those things can like, totally take me over, you know, in either way, you know. So like, I learned a lot about like, value and money. And like, you know, like, going back to the Robin Hood thing, there's like stories in the news that people like that killed themselves off of that, you know, and I got to a certain point where I was feeling those similar sorts of feelings over money. And then there's also a story of like, Tony Shea, who was like, the Zappos. And he's like, the other spectrum, where you have like, billions of dollars, but you're still like, going through, like, you know, internet. So to me, like, I've just really had to, like, reconsider, like, my thoughts around like money, and what does money actually mean to me, and like, how you use money, I'm trying to view it, I just like energy, you know, and it comes and goes, but it's not something I can like, hold on to really tightly. I don't know, people talk about this, like, abundance mentality. And I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out those things. But it's not like this whole status. And this money thing is like, a still it's important to me, but it's also like, not important to me. And I don't know, I'm still trying to like wrestle with all these feelings. Because like, at a certain point, I was like, I want to give away all my stuff and like, become a monk. You know what I mean? I don't know, to me money, like equals freedom to a certain extent. So it wasn't necessarily about buying stuff. It was about this, like, feeling of freedom that I, in this sort of environment, I didn't feel I felt trapped, you know, and I thought that was the answer to the way out, and it really wasn't it just created more problems. I don't know if that's answering your question. But yeah, takeaway for me this year? No, no, I'm with you. So is there are there things that you're putting in or working through or reading to see like, how do you really feel because I mean, what you're describing is a very, like, heady thing, you know, and it's not something that's gonna happen, like overnight, like, Oh, I solved it, you know? So like, What are you thinking? Or what are you? Are you researching? Are you just reading or you just trying different things out and seeing how it fits for you? Because that is a pretty big thing to kind of try to like whittle down. Yeah, there's I started reading this interesting book. It's called sacred economics. It's by this guy, Charles Eisenstein. He's like a pretty fascinating character, but it's about like gifting gifting society that's not really based on like, monetarily like acquiring things for yourself. It's more about like this like Burning Man concept, almost of like gifting you know. So I've been trying to practice that like in terms of like, now it's just like, people are really hurting and I see a lot like going online to people that just haven't GoFundMe is of things that just people are just having problems with. So just by like donating like money to that I feel like it's like a nice use of money. Like, I also work in like advertising too. And I have a complicated relationship with that in terms of like how I earn money. And like the karmic value of like, how I'm earning it versus like, how I'm using it, you know, and like in a non COVID world, I would kind of feel like I'm doing stuff outside of work. Like bouncing out, like the negative karma that I'm creating here. And when COVID didn't happen, it was just like, I felt like there was a lot of negative karma. So it's been nice to kind of support causes I believe in or donate money to people that are having a hard time to kind of feel like more in balance with that, you know, so just not trying to hold it on as tightly as been helpful for me, Lacey, what about you? Well, I guess this is where I'll bring my white privilege and and say that, I think, you know, I was prior to 2020, I was aware of my white privilege, and in some ways, right. And I've Nick and I have talked about the different ways that I've kind of, like, aware of how people view me, and how I can walk through the world, especially I come from my family is very has a lot of cops in it. So I I can walk very easily in that community. And I think this year, I've just really been able to steep and understand that more fully, and really feel those feelings of how injustice that is and, and, and the feelings that it makes me feel and like, what are the feelings that you feel like I just I, of course, I'm gonna have to ask about all this. Oh, please. I yeah, and I don't want to like, and again, I don't want to make it about my feelings. Right. So if but if you would like to know. Yeah, I mean, I'm I asked the question. So free. It feels like grief. But guilty grief, feels physically really gross. Like, I have to take a shower it, I almost. But that's that feeling like, of I don't want to be here. Like, I don't want to feel that it feels really overwhelming. But I tried to stick with it. Because I think that that's a that's an important part of it. But I also understood and learned that it felt really good to do physical things, like go to protest and be around that energy. And yeah, I think that that's that I'm learning how white centered my experience it is and how white centered my point of view is, and everything just as much as I can actively read and learn and listen to try and flip it you know, and and use my privilege for good. So with the police specifically have those conversations with my family members, as much as I can consistently. And if I see something on the streets happening, be a part of it myself, because I know I can do something because I know the language to use, I can use that language very comfortably, I can walk into that space very comfortably and use it. So that's that's been a big part of my experience and my recovery. I do think I've learned in my recovery, that racism is bad for your health, not obviously not just for people of color. But for white people, too. It's bad for our recovery to hold on to this stuff. It's not for the universe. So it's it's a big part of my recovery as well. How has the conversations have gone with your family? Since I know, there is a lot of blue there, and then has your approach to other like black and brown people that you do know in recovery? Has that changed or shifted through the course of this year? So the conversations with my family, some of it's a work in progress. Mm hmm. Some of it, you know, I was, I was inspired to write something on Facebook in response to a family member. And I ultimately responded in a way and said, I'm going to take this conversation offline, so we can have it authentically. And it's not like in public view, I wrote a letter that didn't go anywhere. They're not talking to me and I and I see, a certain side of my family is not talking to me, I tried to do it from a place where they would respond to me that wouldn't instigate it so that we could have a conversation. And with family members that are closer to me, it's an ongoing conversation where I do a little bit here and there. It's just a constant thing that I'm saying, and pointing out and adding to the conversation. And they get annoyed with me. But it's just I know that I can do that. Like I know that I won't get shut out so I can keep doing it and keep having those conversations. I try and say, you know, I bring things to the table like you taught me to be this way. This is how you raised me how I was brought up in the world was to question and, and stand up for what I think is right. So this is part of that there's an identity there for a lot of people in the police department. And I think obviously if they if they believe in this thing, they need to work on it. I know I'm sorry. We're swearing a lot in your pocket. I mean, I have a swear word in the name of my show. So I think it's totally fine. I'd be like exactly like because I actually haven't talked about this publicly at all. There was a second part of your question. Oh, yeah. People black and brown people in recovery. I think I personally have seen how racism and addiction are completely inextricably linked. And we, it has to be part of the conversation about addiction, and all the things that come along with racism, like job equality, you know, housing, all of that, right? That all translates to an experience of addiction. And so in my conversations in my own recovery community, I am pushing to have that be part of our literature to acknowledge it, that the trauma of racism causes addiction, and also speaking to people while other white people that don't understand that, that think that it's a disease that we're born with which it you know, I've genetics, blah, blah, blah. That's part of my story. But I think having that conversation with fellow white people don't get it that that's it, they will admit to that, they'll say, you know, oh, I'm like, do you understand that trauma can cause addiction? Yes. Okay. Well, do you see racism as a drama? Yes. There you go. Like it's, it's, it's a simple equation. So that's, that's what I've been working on, or that's not working. That's the conversations I've been having. And like, how has, so I know, you mentioned the the correlation, everything like that. But why do you feel like in the recovery community, just from your opinion, like, why do you think there is that hesitation to say, like, it's 100%, there's an issue with racism, and it's systemic, and it's like, just look what's going on? Like, why do you think there's like that hesitation? Because, is it because like, we're all Reading Recovery, we're all starting from the same place? Is it that type of thing? And it's like, they're, we're all here, for the same reason. So why are we trying to, like, you know, separate us when we're already kind of coming in a really low or vulnerable point? Is that how you see it? i? It's a good question. I haven't really, like thought about it a lot. And like to Lacey's point we had I mean, I suppose we talked about it in private a lot. But it's probably a difficult thing for people to talk about publicly, like even in our recovery community of recovery, Dharma, it's still, I mean, it's a fairly diverse community, but I still think it's predominantly like a white community to you know, so I don't think we have met, it's not like a conversation that would be brought up without somebody bringing it up proactively. And then it's a difficult thing for people to talk about. And they may not necessarily agree with that opinion. Like, we went through a similar thing with our community when we were talking about, you know, transgender, and gender pronouns, and it caused a lot of strife in community and people took it like personally. So I think like, to a certain extent, like, you're right, Cynthia, like, it can cause like, a lot of like, divisions between people, when you kind of like want to have like commonality as like a base there. And so like, by introducing something, you're like, stirring the pot, like, I think with a long term, like positive outcome to do that, but any sort of like growth is going to require some friction, that's gonna make it like uncomfortable. I think we talked a lot about like being uncomfortable, like in recovery and sitting with like being uncomfortable, but like, at the same time, as a human, you have not like not, you've want to be comfortable, right, to a certain extent. So I don't know, it's a great question. I think it's good that we're having like an open dialogue about it. But I think maybe that's the reason. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's just kind of my general thoughts. My stance on a 12 step, I guess, think is fairly well known. But I think our recovery community is built on the tradition of 12 step, which was built by a privileged white man in the 30s. And I think it was great. It was 100 men and one woman. And I think it was great from that perspective. And that woman ultimately killed herself, by the way, like it wasn't, you know, like they weren't like supporting her perspective, I don't think so. I think these quote unquote, outside issues, that 12 step doesn't respect what they consider to be outside issues. And some communities outside issues are your experience as a gay person, or as a black person, or even being beat up at home by your partner, like those are considered outside of your addiction. And it's built around this disease model that we all came out from this. And I just think it's, it gets hard for people, I think it brings up feelings of guilt and shame. And I think that that's really hard for people to sit with. And I think they're really scared to lose their sobriety. And so they hold on to the doctrine of a and the big book, and whatever it says, because they don't they're so fearful of losing their sobriety, which I completely I have compassion for that. But obviously, we need to make recovery spaces that are safe for black people, brown people, LGBTQ people, and that if we're not bringing those topics into the room, it's I don't think it can be a safe space, or that's my perspective, from what I've heard from other people. Okay. I mean, from my perspective, I would echo a fair bit of what you guys were saying, but I think just coming Got it from what I do for a living and being in recovery in the rooms and spaces I've been in, I think what a lot of people struggle with is that they understand diversity. Like if someone says diversity, okay, I'll have like a black person, and I didn't even person and a Latina was like, you know, like they understand it one gay person, like the token, but I don't understand, I don't think a lot of people understand what being inclusive really means that washes over their head and are like, well, I'm doing it there, they're here or there. They seem like they like it here. But they don't really understand. It's not just people showing up, it's how you phrase things. It's how, like, what type of topics you can feel safe bringing up and it can be like a healthy discourse, whereas it's like, well, I don't do that, you know, and it becomes like, centered around you, and what you think you do or do not do as a person. And I think that's where a lot of people are struggling with that, too. They just don't understand what it means to truly be inclusive, and to really, truly bring people in, that are different from you, and to be okay with them being different from you. It has it says nothing about your recovery, or you as a person and that you can still learn. I think a lot of people just feel like, well, we're, we're all the same because we all have this addiction. We're all the same, but it's like, no, a lot of us came here from a life outside of this with a lot of other different things. And we're all part of the outside world too. And, and a lot of that stuff taints, how you view yourself in the rooms and what you feel comfortable saying and how you feel comfortable speaking out, and the type of help that you need. I feel like a lot people just are not as willing as they like to think that they are to really examine that. Yeah, 100% It kind of reminds me of this quote, I might butcher this quote. But it's, it's about like, what you're saying diversity versus like, inclusivity. And like, diversity is like being invited to the dance. And then like inclusivity and belonging is like being able to like dance like nobody's watching, you know. And like, I think a lot of like, what you're saying about diversity, I mean, it happens at work, it's even happened, you know, or hover, but it's kind of like, we need more like this type of person, or we need more of this type of person in the group, right? as like, you're kind of saying, like, check the box. Like, we got one of each of these people, we're like, okay, now, but it's not like, there's some fundamental issue that's like, causing people to not come to these groups, you know, because it doesn't maybe feel safe for them to come to that, you know, and that I'm talking from my personal experience and experiences that we've had with our community. And like me myself as like a straight male, like, just from the way that I was acting. I think like, unconsciously it was making people feel uncomfortable, somewhat. And not even knowing that like unless somebody verbalized it, but they wouldn't be able to verbalize it because they didn't feel comfortable verbalizing it, you know, and I mean, it's difficult. But once we started having this conversation, I think our community got a lot stronger. Once we had open dialogue, and were able to like talk about these things. It was difficult, but we're a much stronger community because of it. So yeah, I'm 100% agree with you, like these conversations should be had. And it's not some groups or not having them because it will cause discord, it will cause strife in the beginning. But like anything hard will be like that, if you want to get to a better place, you know? Yeah, I agree. So when it comes to like recovery, Dharma and everything, are there things that you guys are trying to get into motion or have been in motion, or there's anything that's like changing when it comes to like the literature or how you guys run the rooms or anything like that, I can speak a little bit to the recovery. I'm a little bit more active in the community, then Nick is this summer, we had a our global conference, and that was the main thrust of the global conference was inclusivity. And particularly with race and kind of what I was talking about with, you know, racism being part of anti racist work, being part of the practice and, and how that affects everybody's recovery. And it was, I think it I saw some people have major revelations some way people like Mind blown revelations, and I saw a lot of resistance to so it's both. And yes, there is a conversation happening about changing the literature. Okay. And we can do that as we can do that. I've been more kind of focused on the community in an international way. But we can do that in New York City. Now, we can change our literature now. We can change it at the next meeting. You know, that's, that's we need group's consensus, but I'm sure we can get it and I think we should do that. So I'm curious about when it comes to you guys. Is there anything talked about you your recovery things that you've learned to learn about yourself accepted about yourself? Is there anything that you knew you picked up or something that you're like, surprised that you really enjoyed during this year and it could impact your crabby, it could be just something you enjoy outside of like a hobby or something? And then also, I want to talk about your show and like what you guys plan to do in 2021? Like, what's the plan? What's going on? I'm nosy. So chances are good question I want to know. Well, whoops. Everybody's altered the conversation now, Nick, do you have anything that comes to your mind, Nick, in terms of something you've at least? Well, yeah, I guess for me like, I, I've always like been over like it. I don't know, I kind of like put the pieces together this year that it's like, so intricate for me to run, because it's like, basically like my antidepressant, you know, I don't do it. I feel bad. So and then like, I tend, I don't know, I don't know why there's a lot of like, people in recovery, who are in these like endurance running communities. And me personally, I always want to take things to the extreme. You know, same though, I want to run an ultra marathon next year. And so it's like, Why do I feel the need to like, run that amount of distance? Well, I don't know. But it's like, how do I do that in a healthy way, and not take it to the extreme, but also, it's something that I really enjoy doing. And I think it's just something elemental, like it releases the chemistry of like running and exercise in general just releases all these like feel good chemicals in your system. And it's like, very elemental, like it connects you to the earth and things like that. So I'm incorporating that more into my life now. So yeah, that's something I'm taking away from this year. Awesome. Good. Best of luck to you on that one. That's the one you have a partner who's doing it with me. So okay, yeah. misery loves company. I did like say, like, I was gonna have this revolute resolution last year that I was going to get a six pack. And that never happened. So like, let's see if this actually happens. But yeah, that's one of my goals for next year. For me, I guess I really, I learned that dancing around my apartment is really good for me. And I like to dance a lot. And I'm kind of like letting go of the fact that it has to be good. And then I'm like a dork or whatever. I just, I really enjoy it. And it feels really good. And it reminds me of being a teenager a little bit about you. Dancing, I'm going to start doing more video for my show, really working on trying to explore that, because I have an issue with being very camera shy and image shy and everything like that. So I'm like, What the hell, let's just do it and make it into a bigger part of my 2021. Cool for the podcast? I don't know, to do transcripts? I do. Oh, okay. We should talk about that. Because it's boring for other people. But I've started it and it takes me a week. So I want but I think it's amazing, you know, for accessibility, all of it. You know, I think so I've started doing transcripts, I also want to create like a, like redo our website to a certain degree, the language is not what we've been up to recently. So I need to, we need to update that. And then I also want to do like a resources, like, we collect so many amazing resources from people, as I'm sure you do, too, from just talking to talking, the amount of people that we have met and recovery, the resources are is just incredible. So creating that kind of library of recommendations. And yeah, I think Nick and I, both we spoke about this recently, we just had a podcast about harm reduction. And I think it's just the podcast seems to be going in the way like how our own personal understanding of recovery and sobriety is going. It's just so it's evolving every three months, I think, you know, to kind of have a completely new, it doesn't have to mean that another understanding of it goes away. It's like in addition to so that's been really cool. And okay, yeah, yeah, I like ice. Second that, you know, when we first started doing this podcast, it was just like, let's just do it and see what happens. And it kind of just like, I don't know, as we change in our interests, like evolve, I think like, those are the topics that we tend to, like gravitate towards. And now we're like, I think we just had our 60th episode, right. Awesome. Congrats. Like, yeah, I mean, wow, times really flown. But it's just been fun, like doing the podcast. But I think it's kind of nice to like, take a look back now at some of like, the analytics and be like, Huh, that's interesting. Like, these are the most popular episodes. And they're about these like themes, like, this is really what's like clicking with people, and some of the other topics are really clicking. And so it's kind of like, we're still trying to figure out our identity. I mean, first there's like people, but like, also, identity is like the podcast and what it is, you know, and I don't think we had a clear vision of that. When we first started. I still don't think we do. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself late. It's like, some of the things like Lacey is talking about just like this alternative way of recovery, you know, and thinking about recovery in a very, like, expansive way where like, no topic is really off guards and some of these topics are going to make people feel uncomfortable, and that's okay. It's kind of like expanding that conversation of but of what recovery is, you know, I mean, I think that's awesome, though. You know, we need kind of voices that are I mean, that's the reason why I connect to you guys and your show anyway, is that that you guys are finding yourselves and sharing that out as you're going through. And I think it's a very human thing. And that's kind of like how I looked at just myself and recovery because it's like I'm a work in progress. My POV may change or shift, or I might get wrapped up into something else. That's interesting. And I, that's just life. I like that you guys talk to whomever Really? And I think that's, that's definitely a POV that's needed in the recovery space. No, it's helpful, like, I do think it is we're kind of like, what's that? Was that okay, it was over there. And we just have a personalities to, I don't know, to me, I, that's what the scariest thing to me like, I'm very fearful of that of having a fixed identity and saying, This is who I am. And that's what I'm putting out there. That's something I need to work on. But at the same time, like, I do understand the need for like having an identity, I understand that two people know what you're about, really, you know, and maybe that's like what we're about is that word. Yeah, I mean, I think at this point, I added the tagline empowered recovery. And I think that that's what it is right? That we have the power to choose how we recover, and what's healthy for us. And we don't need a script or a like, we can choose the book, any book we want. And we can add seven books on top of that, and take. And I think that's one thing I've really have learned. We say it a lot. I like I speak the words, but to really understand that you can trust your instinct is a whole other ballgame. And I'm like, slowly learning that, especially with recovery, because it's scary. You don't you don't wanna mess up, you know? And but it's true. Like we we know what's best for us. Oh, right. I mean, I think I've asked you guys all the questions and more, is there anything a parting word and you don't have totally don't have to have a parting word or a final thought that you like to share out with people. Just be kind to yourself and be kind to one another. I love it. I dig it. I think that that's that. Oh, love it. All right. Thank you guys for being on the show. And having this conversation with me. It was nice to catch up. All right, my friends. I'm going to let you go enjoy the rest of your year. Talk to you in 2021. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Bye