Washed Up Emo

#5 - Trevor Kelley (Former music journalist for Spin and AP)

December 16, 2011 Episode 5
Washed Up Emo
#5 - Trevor Kelley (Former music journalist for Spin and AP)
Chapters
Washed Up Emo
#5 - Trevor Kelley (Former music journalist for Spin and AP)
Dec 16, 2011 Episode 5
Tom Mullen
Author, writer and, music executive: Trevor Kelley
Show Notes Transcript

Joining us in this episode is Trevor Kelley, a former music journalist at SPIN and Alternative Press. Also he was a co-writer for one of the definitive emo books of the 2000s, "Everybody Hurts: An Essential Guide to Emo Culture". Let's also point out he is a proud fan of WashedUpEmo.com



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Speaker 1:
0:07
[inaudible]. [inaudible]. [inaudible]
Speaker 2:
0:23
[inaudible]
Speaker 1:
0:40
[inaudible]. All right. Welcome to the washed up emo podcast. My name is Tom Mullen and with me, as always is mr [inaudible]
Speaker 3:
0:46
Ray Harkins. Um, we have a special guest today, um, a writer and music industry friend of mine, uh, Trevor Kelly. Um, he is on the podcast, uh, today. He has written for magazines, alternative press, enemy, punk planet and spin among others. Um, and you may know him, uh, along with Leslie Simon, they wrote a definitive book on emo entitled everybody hurts in his special guide to emo culture and currently the only person to get every single one of my obscure email references. Um, so, uh, Trevor, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Um, I just think, you know, let's do a quick little background for, you know, everybody you grew up in California. Um, what was sort of the show or the, the, the path T emo, uh, in two minutes or less, that kind of got you. I mean, from the, was it the show? Was it, well, I mean, I know you did a Xen. What was sort of the,
Speaker 4:
1:49
uh, well, let me think about this. So when I was a kid, I grew up in Simi Valley, California, which is, uh, that's of Los Angeles. It's Northwest Los Angeles.
Speaker 3:
2:00
It's also, it's also the porn capital of the world. Correct? Porn is that you said? Yeah, that's what I said.
Speaker 4:
2:08
It's fast. It's not, but it is near that, I think it's any of like van eyes or somewhere in the San Fernando Valley. It's not far from there. So, um, I grew up there and sort of, you know, I guess I started going to shows in 1992 and at that point the kind of two scenes that were going on that, uh, a volleyed between I guess with sort of like the new age records scene that was going on in a lot of the shows happened in Huntington beach, um, at a bunch of any of the, can't remember the names of the ice house. I feel like there's one of them or something like that and Fullerton. But you know, like anything Mike Hartsfield related would end up somewhere out there. And so I'd go to shows like that and see foundation or mean seasoning, a bunch of brands like that.
Speaker 4:
2:54
And then in the other side, like West of the Simi Valley, there was the Kalita Santa Barbara, like kind of hardcore seeing that like card was the, the demo Gado um, you know, both of those were so like, they, they were just such perfect hardcore scenes in that like a label totally defined it and like one do totally sure find it and like had a visual aesthetic and like, if you'd liked one thing that's super easy, like the next thing. Um, so patriotic had to be somewhere in there. Um, because I, you know, I would see bands like end point, um, you know, when I guess see hardcore shows and I'd see bands like still, like when I'd go to some of the, like the, like living rooms Khalida shows. So, you know, I guess it was like somewhere in 1982 that, you know, that stuff started like kind of coming across my, my teenage mind and blowing it, I guess.
Speaker 3:
3:52
Did you kind of go to Indy first or was it hardcore? Hardcore, right.
Speaker 4:
3:58
Yeah, well it was, he was like, you know, like I listened to like, um, metal
Speaker 3:
4:04
I made, I started the same way. Yeah. It was like you saw Headbangers ball or you saw the whatever metal bands. Yeah. It definitely started there.
Speaker 4:
4:11
Yeah. And like in 1982 obviously it was where the point where like it wasn't weird where you like I love Megan and Fulgazi or Nirvana or whatever, you know, or like, and the red hot chili peppers. Like it was like this weird convergence of music and time where that that kind of made sense. I would say before I started going to that shows I was totally confused. Mishmash of all that kind of stuff. Like I logged Butch sex magic to the very cause I do not like, and I believe I was at all at all.
Speaker 3:
4:42
I got ground up for that record. I don't know how that
Speaker 4:
4:47
like snuck past my, my purse knee period. Just how I at some point was the coolest type, huh.
Speaker 3:
4:53
Anyways, that, that, uh,
Speaker 4:
4:55
there was like this, this whole like weird amalgamation of stuff going on. And so I was super into metal, but then I think, you know, being able to like see a band like Nirvana where I liked the heaviness of it, but the melody of it and certainly like the Hanks of it made it easy to go with them to like, you know, a hardcore bam last drift again or something like that where it was like, Oh, right. They're like, they're angsty and it's heavy too. And it's like they was, it was a kind of natural segue, I guess I wasn't into like Indy. I definitely, I mean, that would have been a good time. It'd be like, yeah, dude, I totally love dinosaur jr, but I didn't
Speaker 3:
5:32
you, you, it wasn't until much later in my life,
Speaker 5:
5:34
you hit on something. I had a Trevor that I think is cool and a lot of people don't realize what a powerful scene, the Santa Barbara scene and like you mentioned Kalita like, you know, most people don't even know what that is. Uh, right,
Speaker 3:
5:48
right. And it's only the people who do, no, no. Oh totally. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:
5:54
And it, it, I think it will, I think it's cool where you did have a juxtaposition, cause I myself was also, you know, going to shows in Southern California and I dated a girl that went to UCS V so I, I would go to shows at like the pickle patch and stuff. And so you had these two vastly different things where it was like in orange County and in LA you had, you know, somewhat legitimate venues like, you know, showcase theater and um, you know, before chain reaction was called chain reaction, the public story. We'll never see. You have these like legitimate venues. And then you had Santa Barbara where it was like they had, you know, they had the living room, but that place changed every, like two years. And it was just like, it was total like DIY scene. So it was like, it's cool that you had that same experience as well.
Speaker 6:
6:43
Right? Yeah, no, it's interesting and I'm sure it's still happening. You know, somewhere, I'm sure there's like someone who's still like, you know, throwing a show in a living room and you know, Ivy somewhere. And it's probably like, I'm a lot of hardcore band and I'm certain that the same thing's happening with, you know, in, in orange County where there's, you know,
Speaker 5:
7:05
yeah. And it, and I always [inaudible] I know what you said about just kind of interesting too, and I'm sure Tom has had similar experiences where, um, a lot of the bands, like it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities to have a band that, you know, sounded like, you know, mineral pursue front drive, that type of stuff. Play with like a literal hardcore back like, you know, you'd see, right. I mean it was just extreme, but like, you know, you could see like tenured and fight play with mineral even though that's, like I said, an extreme gap, but only in certain places with that kind of work where people would be that accepting to be like, yeah, I like both genres.
Speaker 6:
7:44
Yeah, totally. I mean I saw like, um, I remember I probably bring played tickled patch, um, in maybe like 96 or seven or something, probably 90. Oh 96 I think it was played there. And then the next night they played the Huntington beach library at the Huntington beach library if I remember correctly. They played with Amanda's a bastard and the locus, they told them longer, wiser. It is like, what though? Fucking going on here. Like this is crazy. Um, but yeah, like that, that it seemed normal I guess.
Speaker 3:
8:19
I mean I was actually, I was just looking at um, the Texas, the reason toward AIDS and I saw some shows. I mean they did a show with mad ball and you look at it then like I was reading through their entire shows and just looking at them, it was normal to do that.
Speaker 6:
8:35
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I want to say they play with donut.
Speaker 3:
8:40
Oh God. Oh, Hey Ray. I think we have a rule. We can't bring up donuts ever again. Fucking dance second. Yeah,
Speaker 6:
8:51
that's an odd show though.
Speaker 3:
8:53
Second time in like four episodes. Thanks a lot Trevor.
Speaker 6:
8:57
And this happens a lot. Yeah. Donuts. And it's funny his, that
Speaker 5:
9:02
I think it's a, I think it's funny too, cause obviously now you look at the 200 packages that get sent out and diversity is completely frowned upon where it's like, or, or if, if it isn't frowned upon where it's like, uh, you know, the headlining band is like, I don't care. We'll draw whoever we're going to draw and these kids will be forced to watch these bands. We just want to take bands. We like on tour, the kids that watch the opening bands go, this is the worst shit I've ever heard. What is this? This is terrible. And so it's just, it's just funny to have that.
Speaker 4:
9:34
Yeah. I'm sure there's, there's some, you know, like there's got, there's gotta be some towards that or so. I mean, you know, I talking to somebody last night about, um, I remember seeing cursive Mastodon in against me on the same bill and being like, awesome. Like that was April us tour.
Speaker 6:
9:55
Yeah. I mean sure it happens, but it's, yeah.
Speaker 3:
9:58
Well, I think it's interesting that, you know with, you know, radio and shows, it's like radio. This is only this one genre that you must listen to or with tours you're going to go to this metal core shit tour. But I think a kid likes all that. That's why they listen to Spotify or listen to Pandora because of that, because they, they like different things. And uh, um, yeah, you would think that they would want to keep doing that, but they're too scared I guess, or not at that time. But I guess we gotta get donuts back to do this.
Speaker 6:
10:33
That's it. That's the time to buy this again. Yo have more eclectic shit
Speaker 5:
10:42
I think. I think we, I think it's indicative that we need to absolutely find a member of donuts to interview for this podcast.
Speaker 3:
10:51
I will learn Swedish or whatever I need to learn. Yeah.
Speaker 6:
10:55
Funny. I mean, I definitely haven't bought him donut and I'm going to walk by. Welcome to the Washington female podcast. Yeah. It's what I do for my entire life. Where are you going to think of things you haven't thought about a long time, right. We, we, we, we like to refer to it as under a thing. A hidden gems. Yes. Yeah. I guarantee you I will not be looking them up on a flyer such thing tonight. I will forget about them for another 10 years.
Speaker 3:
11:27
I guess. What, what was the sort of the band that you think or what was the, I mean for me, the first emo band for me that someone told me about was get up kids and then promise ring and then I sorted, researched back and forward. What was, what was the one for you? Was it while you were in college? Was it while you were doing the scene and where did you kind of branch off from that and you could, you know, sort of dive into it?
Speaker 4:
11:49
Right. Um, well good question. It's weird cause I, I certainly, I mean one of the birds like punk bands, I got into, um, what's regards E and then from there I got into embrace and like any other kind of stuff that wasn't just minor threat. So I was aware of like the prodo emo band. No, I just don't think I thought of them in that way at the time. Like I, I definitely didn't think of um, Fugazi 13 songs, that one the first time I heard it, you know, I just thought of them as a punk band. Um, for even like stuff like statue where I was like, clearly it wasn't quite hardcore, but it was sort of more progressive in its lyricism and sentiments I guess. Um, but I didn't think of it as that. I only think it was probably until like, like my, my sophomore or junior year of high school where I started thinking of bands in that light.
Speaker 4:
12:52
And it was mostly like Jawbreaker, like I bought the, the busy set mentioned, I remember thinking like, what is this? And then I bought like swore by Sam eyeing I think, and like being like, this is not, this is not like, Oh good. It's not like hardcore, but it is for them. But then it's, you know, and so it's kind of like figuring out, it was a different thing, but I don't think anyone called it email. I mean I think I thought way more of the, the stuff like the evolution stuff as email. Like I definitely thought I was still like as an emo band. Um, so it wasn't like the, you know, but like kind of like, you know, it wasn't like the, the, the first wave and it wasn't like the typical second wave stuff, I guess it was more like, it was like Jawbreaker and still still life and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:
13:38
Like I started thinking of it as that. Um, and it was really quick. Like, you know, like I, I, I got super in a job right there and, and within, I would say like months even, it was like I would read an interview with them or, or I think it was through aJ trudge interview that I first found out about scene and I was like, Oh wow, this sounds like stuff I liked, but really like, really the songwriting I thought was really tight. And then, you know, someone gave me a copy of spider land by Slack and I was like, you know, remind them one. It felt like these, they had these elements and what I was listening to. Um, but it was just like nothing else I've ever heard. And so they would say that during high school, like it wouldn't be odd that I would go, you know, like by a flying saucer attack record and also by, you know, LP to right on the real estate or something like that. So it was sort of in high school for me that I kind of, you know, found email and kind of listened to indie rock stuff too. And I, it's really like, that's been the last 20 years or how old am I now? 2015 years of my life really has been, um, [inaudible], Shawna, Rosa music, obsessive Lee and other stuff entering in at different points as well. But um, yeah, that's, that's essentially I guess when it was,
Speaker 3:
15:02
I mean, from, did that kind of lead into the, in into the Xen that you did? I forgot, I forget the name.
Speaker 4:
15:09
Yeah, it was called stop breathing from which do the pavement song. But the, the, it does, that's a great example of anything like of these were these two worlds that I really like adored. You know, like the, the Dean gave him the pavement song, the guitar player from the promise or designed it. Um, and they, and the promise ring sold it on four. And you know, like Sunday real estate is on the cover or you know, and like, um, some of other people have been online if she's super drunk with on the cover. So it was kind of why it kind of get both, you know, like, um, which I, which didn't seem that weird, um, honest like I think by th you know, cause maybe the age I was at by the end of the like nineties, I think it was super, you know, like the first promise or record has been referenced to a red house painters falling in it now.
Speaker 4:
15:59
So it's like light there is that, it totally made sense. Like those guys felt like peers community. Cause it was like I would go with them to talk about like, okay computer and it was like this mind blowing experience and whatever, but at the same time we could talk to them about start today. So was like, yeah, like it seems like by the end of the nineties is this totally normal? You know, like a band like Jason Roseville totally like exemplifies that to me. You know, it's like you have guys that were in resurrection in that band, you know, and like handsome, handsome, but yet like, you know, by the time they put up their second record it sounded like,
Speaker 3:
16:34
okay, well it was almost like they got older before us and we were younger, if that makes sense. Like they kind of went through their harder phase and then they did it and now we're sort of in that loop, I feel like.
Speaker 4:
16:48
Right, right. Yeah. I mean for me personally, a lot of those, it was like this perfect storm of seeing bands like that or um, you know, dead cat. Even like those first two death cab records, like in Pedro, the lion, you know, it was like a lot of guys who I felt like, I mean maybe less, I was deaf cab. Um, but you know, that I could talk to you about growing up, listening to hardcore, but that I could talk to them about like a talk, talk record too if I wanted to or whatever. And so it was like, it was kinda this perfect storm for me. Um, personally, you know, when, when that sort of second wave DMO bands, especially the change one, um, kind of became, you know, sort of omnipresent like that, that's definitely super influential on me. And like, it's weird because, you know, obviously it's like I was kind of like my own cottage industry of my house, like creating a fanzine selling and looking all the ads, you know, like painting Jason and Josh would design it and all these like different things that I was doing.
Speaker 4:
17:49
Um, and so you, you know, I, at that point, it was like 20 or something like that, or 19 when I was like publishing my being regularly. Um, and you have to look to someone as like sort of like, you know, not necessarily just duration, but let's the boom frame, you know, and life. For me, it was like, those guys were so cool to me, those J tree guys and you know, like were always very supportive and helpful and cause that, for me, I think that was important about that time was, I mean, the music is super important, but for me personally, um, it was like, you know, that someone who was a few years older than me and had a lot more experience than they would, it totally was not questionable for them to be like, Oh yeah, here's what you should go talk to this person. This is how you put together your own little business out of your bedroom. You know, like, I, I'd want to know if that it even as you know, becomes easier to do that completely, um, on your own. Now I, you know, I don't know if a total stranger would help with total strangers as much as some people did back then, I guess.
Speaker 3:
18:51
Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 4:
18:52
I hope they would.
Speaker 3:
18:53
Yeah. No, I read the, actually the little history that you did for J tree that was on their site. Um, and I mean, it's, it's, it's, so, it's, it's cheesy to say that now. It's, it's heartfelt. It's, I, you could totally tell that, that, you know, that label and there's so many records from that label that, you know, are so influential and, and bands and from that era and it just for those guys to totally do that, like some random person, um, asking for help and they did it. And I don't, I don't know if it's just from the hardcore mentality of kind of helping each other out or the scene, but, um, they kinda came from that, that world too.
Speaker 4:
19:36
Yeah. I don't know. It like, it certainly had an effect on me to this day where, um, you know, I think every idea is worth listening to and every, you know, every sort of like, I, you know, this is, has, uh, curved itself from the past few years since I've moved away from like writing. But there was a point, you know, where I'd have like college kids just send me emails and you know, at that point in my life was in my late twenties and I, they would be like, how do I become a writer or whatever, you know, and I would literally be like, here's my phone number, you know, like if you want to talk about it, because I had someone else do that to me essentially. So like it was, it was, uh, you know, very admitted left an indelible Mark on me again.
Speaker 3:
20:20
Yeah. That's awesome. It's funny, I had the same conversation with somebody today about that, um, that, uh, someone was helping me today and he said the same thing. So that's really cool to hear when you kind of dived into, you know, writing, you know, um, and you know, the spin enemy, AP punk planet, I mean, was, it, was, it would, did you feel pressure when you were reviewing or doing these things where you were probably friends with a lot of these bands and, um, what, what was sort of the, you know, how did you figure that out?
Speaker 4:
20:54
How did that, yeah. Um Hmm. I didn't, I certainly, Hmm. Like I don't know if it entered my mind that I, at least when I was trying to write it, I didn't think about who would read it. You know, like the only person I was trying to write for and sort of entertain was myself. So I never thought like if I write this, you know, like gnarly Cobra [inaudible] record review or something like that. Right. Like am I going to have to deal with the repercussions of this? Because I thought like then that, that like I wouldn't be doing my job if I did that, you know? So like that stuff, it didn't enter my mind as much. Certainly you know, back and you'd submitted a review, you'd have to wait two months for it to come out and see hands, you know, some time to think about it. Once it became a reality, it was something tangible that I could hold in my hands. Crap. Then the thought going to be like, Oh yeah, this is probably not going to go over well or whatever. You know, like someone might get bummed on this or I'm going to have to answer [inaudible]
Speaker 6:
22:01
during this or whatever. Um, so it, but it wasn't while it was occurring. Um, and you know, I think at the end of the day, like if
Speaker 4:
22:11
didn't, you know, I didn't stay true to like either trying to find the story that I thought was worth telling or trying to assert my opinion, um, in the most entertaining way I thought possible. Uh, in that era specifically it would have, that would've been, um, kinda counterintuitive to that job. So
Speaker 3:
22:32
did you feel it, did you feel like a, I mean, like I said, I, when I was, I think we were talking to some of this, I mean, I think we're born pretty like too close to each other and you know, same time in high school, cause I felt late, late high school, I felt it sort of popping. And then when I got to college, I just felt that there was this moment or this movement that I was talking about that no one was paying attention to and they were still sort of stuck in limp Bizkit world and all those things. And, and it was like, I was kind of screaming from the rooftops, like, these songs are poppy and catchy. Why is no one listening? And then, you know, certain people copied it and you know, that I did durations of the, the bands move on. But did you, when you are writing and if it's, you know, AP, you're in those places, like were you having to kind of raise your hand? Sometimes it'd be like, Hey guys, hold up, this band is going to be kind of
Speaker 4:
23:23
huge. Yeah, I don't know. I think Leslie Simon was really good at that. Um, I, I think I wasn't like the forecaster as much, you know, like there are certain times where I, you know, I pointed out like a say anything or a, um, panic at the disco and I was like, this is definitely gonna happen. And then I, you know, was correct, but I think the, you know, there's just as many other where I was maybe not. So like I don't think I was that, um, that wasn't necessarily my role as much. Um, but I will say that, um, I do know what you're talking about. Like I remember feeling like the first time I heard clarity that that was going to be nevermind.
Speaker 6:
24:05
Yeah. I remember thinking like I got the super admin as it might've been sat at the time of it or CD. Um, and I remember getting the advanced and listening to it and being like, wow, this a dog. Like, you know, like the promising is definitely not selling magazine on tour anymore. They're going to put out very emergency and uh, it's going to be huge and they're going to go signed to MCA or you know, Capitol or wherever. I thought they were going to sign at the time and they're going to be huge. And then that is something to write home about. It came out too, and I remember that period. I was like, really? Well, I was expecting all the albums to be pretty big. Um, clarity clearly was not, um, other than the playbook of lucky Denver mint and the promising records was not, and you know, down the line, I mean something to write home about. Certainly what, and that kind of started the, the, the entrance into the mainstream for a lot of the fantasy kinda came from that world. But yeah, I, I did feel like, you know, in that sort of like late era for the second way that it would be really confused and it didn't. And I remember when things started to get huge, I can't point to like probably three or four times where I was like, well it doesn't, it's not going to get bigger.
Speaker 7:
25:22
Well that's the thing I was thinking like Weezer with getup, kids tour Rose land like buses and fucking like [inaudible] members everywhere. And I go, Holy shit. I remember saying that at the show. Yeah.
Speaker 6:
25:38
A year later it's like dashboard and doing unplugged, you know. And I remember when that happened, I was like, and he was on spin like the cover of spin twice a year. And I was like, well that clearly that's it. It's not going to get bigger. And you know, like
Speaker 4:
25:53
the last time I was like, there's no bigger than that. Uh, was when, um, I saw fall out boy hit bam blues, little 2006 I think, and understanding onstage is looking out and the entire parking lot and it was, you know, 40,000 people or 35 or something like that. And I was just like, now that this is a big, it just seemed yet, and maybe in some ways that was it. Maybe that was sort of like the peak of the mountain to some degree,
Speaker 6:
26:22
but they fall off. What's that?
Speaker 5:
26:28
Right? Were you going to say, Oh, I was, yeah, no, I was just gonna say, cause I think, I think what, why I obviously every single one of us that had been involved in independent scene, look watching the thing. Anytime you watch a band, even if obviously you've got no emotional action or you fucking hate their music, uh, but they come from into, they're in the background as you watch them to send it, just like it, it becomes surreal. And like, obviously once they become popular, they become, you know, sort of outside of the sphere of what you see or what you pay attention to. You like a family and my chemical romance, the perfect example where it's just like, I mean this, you know, it's like any time like my dad downloads a song by a band that obviously has like an independent context, I'm like, are you like, this doesn't even make sense that at the time it's like obviously all of those bands were being exposed to people that would literally have no context for what as seen event that we're sitting here going, like, what, how does this make sense? Yeah,
Speaker 4:
27:31
yeah, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I think, you know, for awhile too, it was like you would see, um, some of the fans that were really like, you know, exploding in the mainstream. Like there was no denial that they kind of came from, if not the same world that I came from, some sort of iteration of it. So I felt like, you know, seeing like my chem and all that boy and certainly like Thursday and taking back Sunday when I saw those guys get big, I was like, Oh yeah, this is the same thing I saw happening. You know, this is exactly that. Um, I think after their success it's a little harder for me cause it was like, yes they were coming from a scene, but it was only like this mainstream punk scene, you know, so it's like the, and this is a flag on them. I think they've actually written some really great pop songs. Like kind of like Paramore. It wasn't like, you know, they were, they, they kinda like slugged it out. They, or, or you know, even saw the world that some of the bands that came before them came from, you know, it was, it was more, the path was more defined a little bit.
Speaker 3:
28:35
Um, you know, I was thinking too, Trev is the, you know, from the sort of the, the interviews that you were doing in the sort of writing era, was there any favorite from the emo world that sort of, you know, stuck out to you that, I mean, I want to bring up the Ian, I'm a K MCI interview, which I think is hilarious, but is there any others that kind of stuck out with you that you feel sort of, you read now and you're like, Holy shit, that really exemplifies that time and that, that, that era and
Speaker 4:
29:05
all of them, I mean, not like that. Like, I nailed it. I don't mean it like that, like, but like I can't read those. Well, for one, I don't, you know, it's not like I go back and read that stuff that much. Um, but, uh, when I do, there's no way I can't think of that particular time in my life email like that 2003 to 2000, um, 2003 to 2007 era where I was living in New York and um, or preparing to move there. Um, and I was watching all these bands get super huge and like I just, you know, said a few minutes ago like expectations, expectation, like hitting certain paths. Um, I can't know the look of that stuff and think like, God, it's so crazy that happened, you know, and a part of me thinks like, you know, I don't know if that'll happen again, but in ways, and that's not a good or bad thing, but like I don't know if you'll have a thing where putting scramble, embrace us scene sort of like that or, or a genre of mainly news genre. Um, and seemingly everything. It does explode
Speaker 3:
30:16
I think. I think this is the last scene because I just, just me throwing is, cause I didn't have a cell phone until it was 2000 and I feel like it was bubbling like 97, 98. You know, you've got clarity, you have something to write home about, you've got all those things kind of popping. And then it, it came out and internet and being able to share and Napster and it's just like that. It was still, you still had to go to the show. You still had to, you know, borrow your friend's mixed tape. You had to listen to the radio. Um, yeah. And now it's like,
Speaker 4:
30:52
and I don't know, like, I mean, I think to some degree, like, you know, indie rock or whatever, you know, has kind of fulfilled that a little bit in the, like the late thoughts I guess I'm into now, you know, like, it's certainly a band last Phoenix putting out a record like [inaudible] Phoenix where it was, you know, they were probably playing Bowery ballroom venues at the front of the tour and they did that at Madison square garden with, with that punk coming now, like currently that's probably as important as sugar. We're doubling down and you know, like that, that I think is, is, is closed, you know. Um, but again, it's, it's, I mean it's, it's, but you know, I didn't touch it as much. Um, but I don't think, I don't know if I will be part of like a seed, so to speak.
Speaker 3:
31:51
Yeah. And then I wanted to, you know, I think I want to get into this, um, just because I'm, I'm F I was fascinated by it, but the book, um, you've talked about it a bunch. You've done interviews. I just, I have a couple of funny things that I want to mention about it. Um, I did some research. Um, you still have a MySpace page for it. Um, you guys have probably true, you have an old school badge on there, so I don't know what the badges are, but there's an old school badge saying you were there at the beginning of my space. 8,500 fans still commenting. There's still people commenting. Um, and then I also did a used Amazon sale. Um, I wanted to see yearbook versus nothing feels good and versus Leslie's wish you were here. So if you'd like, if you'd like, I'd like to give the price now. I did an average, but I'd like to give you the used price. Um, wish you were here. $2 and 4 cents. Nothing feels good. Average juice prices. $2 and 4 cents. Nothing feels good. Book a $2 and 84 cents. Ready for yours? Three Oh four. So that's what I'm saying. You guys won. This is you, you guys have come out on top. That's my way of figuring out. We would have won if we got a movie deal. Definitely you in statement, Hey, you're not in the 99 cent bin.
Speaker 4:
33:24
I'm be there. But yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.
Speaker 3:
33:29
So I dunno, I thought it was hilarious cause I was like, Holy shit, there's all these old books that came out and I'm sure there's always people that bought it. They thought it was just going to have stuff about dashboard confessional in it. And there's other things about bands they don't know about and they throw it away or their parents bought it for him. Um, you know, what was, I just, I'd love to get into your head of like, Hey Leslie, you want to do a book? All right, let's do it about this. And I mean, how does that happen? Is that the question? Yeah. I mean, or even just, you know, you've got, um, you know, Greenwall doing the forward. I mean, you've got everyone involved and it was, it was sort of that time it came out. It was, it was, it was, it was a pretty big deal.
Speaker 4:
34:06
Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was really fighting him. Um, yeah. You know, I remember Leslie, you know, Leslie had an idea to do sort of a manual, uh, about, about email. Um, and she, I remember when she asked me if I'd write it with her, uh, we were at ms shapes and seeking that time and things that are some gone by the wayside against, uh, we're, we're at ms shaped. Um, and yeah, she, I saw her sitting in the bottom of stairs and she told me like, I have this idea, I want to do this thing with you. And I said, sure. I mean that was kind of my reaction to anything back then. You know, like I was just sort of game for anything and that like from large scale projects like that to like weird Hangouts. So I was kind of like, yeah, okay, sure.
Speaker 4:
35:00
Whatever. And you know, then she kind of told me what it was and we spent the next two months sort of trading emails and ideas and sort of started putting together, you know, a proposal for it that the shape of it evolved a little bit in that, that process. And then, you know, we, we put it out, we, we got, we had an agent who then went to many publishers and to our surprise, many publishers were interested. And that kind of vague. It is. I remember, I remember, gosh, I remember being home home, being here from New York for Christmas, going into 2005. I remember saying to my family and I said, I think it's my nap and I'm being like, that seems crazy, but sure, whatever, you know, like, look, they're totally easy to publish. You go for it. And so, uh, I remember being pleasantly surprised when I came back and, you know, I was having options and I was talking about it and it was, you know, it was really, uh, a quick experience but really exciting.
Speaker 4:
36:11
Um, and very, you know, I, I looked back on it very fondly and, um, yeah, I just remember coming out and sort of like weird things happening, you know, very quickly and like us like being on TV or like us doing morning radio, you know, like weird things like that that, um, again, you know, I thought we'd put it out, we'd have a party at a bar in the lower East side and that would kind of be hit. And then it continued and continued and it sort of like, because of it I ended up, um, you know, changing jobs, really injuring marketing it so much. But um, yeah, it is a really anytime and it's really a cool, cool thing. And, um, you know, Leslie just put out a new book a couple of weeks ago and I went to her, her sort of event for it here in Los Angeles last week and it was cool because I'm standing there and it was kind of standing by the side of the table where she was signing.
Speaker 4:
37:14
And, uh, it was neat to see like, you know, uh, what appeared to be like a 19 year old girl and a saves the day teacher, you know, I'm getting this book, it's completely about something different, um, signed, you know, and let's get her and being like that around and says, do tee shirt. Like, that's awesome. Like, you know, that's great that like this person probably still knows Leslie from that and they're interested in what she's still doing and that there's still some sort of, we needs there. So. Yeah, I mean it was awesome. It was really
Speaker 5:
37:49
so completely fraud. Please, please, please tell me that you, uh, you get like 15 cent royalty checks every so often.
Speaker 6:
37:59
Uh, no, I don't know. I don't get 50 for the checks. Um, I, yeah, he was, it was a popular book, but, um, I don't think like, you know, I don't see 15, 10 Ronald P jacks.
Speaker 5:
38:13
I mean, from what I understand, book deals aren't like record deals where they give you a sizeable advance. If they know that you'll never do them. And I go, all right. And Joey? Well, I think they do. I just think that it's like, um, the costs are different, you know, so it's like,
Speaker 4:
38:32
you know, you do get an advance, but what do know, it's like, okay, your advance does X amount, the, you have to live for six months and you already have a laptop. So, you know, like I guess you don't have to go to a cabin and you know, Woodstock, right, that record, you know, and whatever to have like a guru onsite to make sure that your head's in the right space. You know, it's, it is like totally like different circumstances and that totally speculative on how if this are given to me.
Speaker 6:
39:05
They did. Have you ever, have you ever gone on to write another book based on this experience? I mean, not like obviously same subject matter, but something completely different.
Speaker 4:
39:15
I, no, I don't think I'd write another book. Um, and just, I, it's, it's weird. I, it was so much work, um, and it was really rewarding in that time and there was something about me being, you know, thinking that was a really great experience. I don't know if I'd want to continue to do that over and over again and it becomes a routine. So I think, I don't think I would, um, I'm pretty happy with not being, uh, an author or a writer anymore.
Speaker 6:
39:50
That's cool. Did you, I mean, what was your thoughts on the, nothing feels good book? Um, and
Speaker 4:
39:58
yeah, people, I know people have like a, you know, a sort of dicey relationship with it sometimes. But like I've always been a fan of Andy's writing. I always taught him he was a great writer. Um, and I, and I think he was honest about it. That was the thing that kind of like bummed me out when people kind of got down the bottom. Cause I think their, their thing about it was that he was sort of like a tourist, you know, like it was this guy who was like the Go-Betweens or whatever, um, like who kind of, you know, observe the emo, uh, the initial emo boom, mainstream boom, um, and then wrote a book about it and sort of got, you know, a good amount of, you know, notoriety or just attention from it. But I thought that's how he wrote it. You know, like, I don't think he, you know, proclaim to be an expert, you know, or someone who believed it.
Speaker 4:
40:49
So I thought it would, the book was really a bonus. I thought it was, you know, well written and things that like, to this day there's probably nothing more definitively, there's no better definitive, um, version of the karate story than the one that exist in that book. I thought that that portion of it was your external, so I wouldn't stay on of it. Um, and I, you know, I bought, I continued to try to seek out his writing when I can, but I think he's, from what I recall, he like sort of like green writing or something like that. We had spoken like maybe a year, three years ago or something like that and be like, that's what he's getting, but I don't want to misrepresent what he's actually, but that was my recollection.
Speaker 3:
41:35
Yeah, I think too. Uh, do you feel like that there will be in this, cause you're a writer and I actually, I've always wanted to ask you this, even outside of this podcast was, you know, Michael as Arad did our, our band could be your life, which was a great book. Do you feel because of the sort of impact that the emo scene did, do you feel that, you know, 10 years from now there's, someone's going to have a book that is sort of from that is even more entrenched or more, I don't know,
Speaker 4:
42:09
last job cause I have the replacement.
Speaker 3:
42:12
Yeah. Texas is Texas. The reason,
Speaker 4:
42:18
like he would interest me. Um, and I certainly think that those fans, you know, in a weird way, we're just as influential in sort of casting the mold for certainly some things that dance it sonically, but like also like how bands, you know, the career paths they took, you know, and that's kind of like our being can be your life. It's sort of like, you know, very much about the integrity of doing things independently and how those bands lived and how they came up. And I think, you know, if I'm a good example, um, you know, if I was a data, remember I probably would have studied very closely to how taking back Sunday or Thursday [inaudible] those early hearts of their careers. Um, I don't think it's that different. Um, so it would be interesting to me if that occurred. I certainly think there's enough people who will at some point, not just, you know, someone asked me this, the, it's been awhile since I knew nothing really about emails and stuff, but I remember when I was, uh, being interviewed for the AP or on the street, but the ones about AP, um, and the guy writing it, asking me if people keep hot the air in that like last weekend Jonah and myself and a couple of others people kind of were really integral with like if we thought that people would look back on some of those records that like classic records or not.
Speaker 4:
43:58
If you're asking me if deja on Tom who is, we looked at like blonde on blonde or whatever, you know, like I started like, no, it's probably not going to happen. But like, do I think that Hey, that's not fair. You know, like I feel like a lot of people might I get off because it was just this sort of moment in time, you know, they might take these entendre you and put it into the same like regard as w whatever, spin doctors, record lash or whatever. You know what I mean? Like can I just be like, Oh, that was the moment when these bands are all breaking at the same time. I remember that one song and, and that's their only reference for it. But to me was saying this to him. I think that's really unfair because I think that basically everyone was just really incredible records that perhaps were sort of flighted off because they happened in a period where emailing broken and mainstreaming people might just, you know, kind of take a cursory glance at it later, you know, 10 years from now and not be like, Hmm, maybe I should check out, you know, whatever wall the time.
Speaker 4:
45:06
Or you know, bang these handfuls of our black parade, which was a really great record. Or you know, there's a ton of them that I thought, gosh, this is really kid. And I would be interested in hearing this, you know, years from now. So I hope people do. Um, I don't know if they will. That's the thing is it's like, you know, like there were placements, you know, rock, like let it be, people will always continue to buy and I don't know, tell all your friends is that record. To me it is, you know, I think there's great songs on it and I think it's, it's continued. You're sleeping with revisiting.
Speaker 3:
45:47
Yeah, I mean people could, I mean,
Speaker 4:
45:49
Oh, it'll be so close to them. I mean, people are certainly clearly in a salary report based on some of that stuff that's going on. Um, so seeing those bands that you know, broke then,
Speaker 3:
46:01
well I think, let me know, uh, the, no, no, no, sorry. It was a, the Skype was killing me. Um, the, uh, uh, the, you know, the refused record, um, the, the shape of punk to comm. I mean, that's when you have, you know, you read guitar world and all the guitar players for the new metal bands put that down as their favorite record. It's obviously gotten to a different place than maybe another record that came out around the same time.
Speaker 4:
46:30
Right. And maybe people wouldn't have thought that, you know, five years or something like that, like you wouldn't say, Oh yeah, that's a, that's a classic bracket. Yeah. So it seems to be really hard to predict or tell and um, I don't know. I hope so. I really think that like in that time there some really great music coming out of that world. So I hope as years go by, people kind of look back on it and say things like, you know, and it sounds a pretty good pop song. Like I gave it to that guy.
Speaker 3:
47:00
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
47:01
So that's, yeah. It'll be interesting.
Speaker 3:
47:07
Yeah. I guess, you know, a couple of things before I let you go. As you know, um, when you were working, um, at, um, my space, I mean I still consider that sometimes some of the, you know, the last sort of emo era. Um, was it, was it interesting then to any interesting anecdotes or things that you sort of felt that time frame? Um,
Speaker 6:
47:32
yeah. I mean, a lot of interesting things, certainly in my time there. Um, but you know, the thing that I would say a lot, um, to people there, um, and that, you know, probably even some, even up until my last day, as I said, we changed music and some days, no matter what people say about it, you know, now, or it will, they'll continue to say in years and years from now, you know, uh, he did, I, you know, it's socialized music. It's, um, kind of removed the barrier between the artist and the audience in a way that was just so substantial, I feel like. And it led in and it really like, it's, it was kind of the first moment of discovery that is, you know, so integral to something like a Pandora or Spotify or, you know, whatever. Good analyst, um, discover was such a huge thing there and it really opened up the way that you could consume, find and fall in love with music. Um,
Speaker 3:
48:41
I mean, what did you do? Oh, you typed in my space.com/the band. Yeah. And that's, it was like, it was in your head to do that and,
Speaker 6:
48:49
and you check their top eight and Oh, who's next, who's that band? And then you checked out that band and then you send them, you know, message maybe said like, I book shows here, or like, I really love that song. What's it about and wrote you back. And that, that stuff all exists still. It just exists in different ways. And so
Speaker 5:
49:09
it, it's just a, it's just a different, it's just a different vehicle of communication like this. Obviously the space was just, it was a tool and people utilize it for as much as they could until there was something else that came along, it was easier. Right. And that's a thing,
Speaker 6:
49:23
the fundamentals of it, they just fragmented and in ways that are fragment and you know, those places that sort of just focused on those one thing is better. And, and that's like, no one would deny that. And so it just became the way that we consume music now and we do it across, you know, 20 platforms or something. So it's, it's it, you know, but to see it all happening as it did, it was really exciting. And it, you know, it was, I, I enjoyed my time there a lot, so I don't know if you've gotta do a lot of cool things. I got to go to Hawaii. Um, hold on
Speaker 3:
49:58
dude. I was about to say, Ray, I don't know if you know about this, but I pulled off the biggest coup at a label I think ever. Oh, did you hear about this right? Yeah,
Speaker 5:
50:10
I don't think so.
Speaker 3:
50:11
I, there was a, I worked a Willie Nelson record and um, Trevor's coworker Isaac, um, got banned to forces to play a Willie Nelson show in Maui and we got to go out there for a, my space secret show and I got to go for like a, and it was, I just felt like
Speaker 6:
50:30
just for the record is not going, Oh, per week.
Speaker 3:
50:32
Oh, I did. I totally went for a week. I left. Um, and I ended up getting upgraded to first class the whole way it was.
Speaker 6:
50:41
Yeah, I did go there, but like, I see another things happen.
Speaker 3:
50:44
Did you, did you, didn't you come to his house?
Speaker 6:
50:48
I think at his house. And that's, you know, one of those things where like I said, you know, like the, that time was just so crazy. You know, there are so many crazy experiences that I can recall from it that were just incredible. Like going to Willie Nelson's house, you know, um, meeting Robert Smith and you know, everyone else knew cure and their children, you know, like just so many different things that happened was there. They were so incredibly exciting, um, and new and crazy and not expected or so the, yeah, I think anyone who works, I would say it was a really exciting place when they worked there.
Speaker 3:
51:27
And I think that most, I think it's a really good book end because the buy space feel and that era in those bands and they were just using it so heavily and you felt connected. It's just as you know, Twitter felt connected when it first started. Like my space, I feel like for a really long part of it felt you were connected to the band if you were friends with them. Um, on that and you could message them and they would write you back. And it's the, I think that was a, I don't know, it just, it's, it's, it, it felt like you were connected so
Speaker 6:
52:02
well, one of the things that I always thought was great, it was like, you know, the band looked at the platform that way. You know, I recall very vividly trading emails with the singer from sweet boxes, you know, like trying to get this profile straight. It's just funny because he was the same guy who like can sell it on mercy, kill my space or whatever. You know, like there was a time where he was like super invested in it and you know, like, it didn't seem weird that it was like, I'll just email this guy in my face and we'll just get it done. And like the barriers around music were not platform, you know, became so ubiquitous, just started, started deteriorating. Um, and that, that's an exciting, I wasn't exciting idea and clearly continues to be an exciting idea and other parts of the space. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
52:52
Yeah. It was fun. Well, I think, um, but definitely, you know, spoke for a little bit. I got some fast questions to ask. Um, and uh, then we'll be done. And um, Oh yeah. Last thing. Where does the job record tee shirts? What's going on? What happened? This is an interesting story. I blame all of you for that quick, quick, quick notes. Trevor made some Fulgazi shirts. All these bands were, um, Trevor posts some on his Facebook page. People get, people get stoked. I get stoked. Um, people still look at me funny when I wear it and then I have to explain, but they're supposed to be a job breaker one and it's not my inbox yet, right?
Speaker 6:
53:37
With the, the band all four of their name, like those sort of hip hop shirts or a woman's Beatles shirts and say like John and Paul and Ringo or whatever. And so I made some for, for Godsey that we're doing [inaudible] so forth and people like those, as Tom said. So then I thought, what a great idea would it be to do the four job ranker albums as the shirt?
Speaker 3:
53:59
It's a fantastic idea. Crazy idea. Right?
Speaker 6:
54:03
So I mocked this up, I put it up on Facebook and Twitter and that again, do you guys want them, by the way, I mean I'm sure the usership or, or your, whatever your, your podcast base is, it's huge. And so I will clear my name through this. I give away this, we've got all these shirts. I have never made any money on it. In fact, I've lost a lot of money making these. Um, so please anyone who wants to like tell chord that I make them, please let them know that I lose money on them and give them to people. Um, so the thought that I have to do the same thing with the job seekers. Sure. And, um, like I said, the mock up all these people, I'll take one, I'll take one, I'll take one. So they ordered 34 of them, I think, uh, cause their response was so great. Come to my office at work, I opened them all. I'm like, yes. Great. And I think I went straight from work that night to a show and the person that I was doing the show with, um, had, you know, put their hand up and said, I would like to be sure. So I deliver it to him. Who I also blame for this. Um, he used to be an English teacher. He picks up the shirt and guys that I used to be big a lack,
Speaker 3:
55:22
Oh no.
Speaker 6:
55:28
One of the most literary pop man possibly of all time. You cannot put those shirts out with a typo. No. So they're just be kinda interact slowly but surely lead to policy furniture with,
Speaker 3:
55:40
you know what those can be used like they have, you know, when the NBA championship and the other team that loses, but they still make the shirts and they send them somewhere to do that. Yeah. I know how serious you are about tee shirts because I shouldn't have thrown out half the tee shirts. I did. Cause you would've bought them off me. Right. You need to talk to Ray after this because Ray, I think Trevor might buy some of your tee shirts. Oh, no problem.
Speaker 6:
56:05
It's weird too because I don't wear t-shirts really.
Speaker 3:
56:09
But you buy them. You don't need to explain yourself cause there's a comfort and on a tee shirts like there's a comfort in for me owning an extra large [inaudible] tee shirt that I'll never wear.
Speaker 6:
56:22
Yeah. Well so I don't wear tee shirts in my day to day life that much anymore. Um, but I will wear them when I go to yoga and it's like Paradis feeling to music. The guy at yoga wearing a inside out, no search and surrender. Sure. Maybe someone will know like maybe someone's going to be like dude's brain fight. That's not one of the best hardcore songs ever. But that doesn't happen. Are most of them extra large? Cause when I saw a chokehold it was just extra large. I couldn't get anything smaller. All my shirts are all right dude, you can't relate. Meet me. Anything smaller than a large like did not exist. Period. I would like for, I have like four outspoken shirts that I would wear every day if they were a reasonable size and looks like a dress on me. Right. And especially when you bought it from eBay too. They have like, crikey, you know they have show neck on them. Yes. Show Nick.
Speaker 6:
57:28
It's funny like this is the one that I'll try to like keep it short that this is such a rad thing you were asking about. Um, when I first started earning shadows and when I would go to the hardcore shows that would happen in either hunting beach or like in like the Canadian Maui or there was something that actually happened in Simi Valley. Um, there like this like game where if they didn't like you and you, Nick went into like proud surf or stage time, um, it's and crowd served. I suppose you probably learned this cause kind of surfing at that point with like reserved for private sheds. Like if you did that and they didn't like you, they'd just grab on your neck and just like fucking your shirt up basically.
Speaker 4:
58:10
Yeah. They were like the stretch neck pop. Like I don't know if they were called that or not. I feel like we were in the shirt boys or I don't remember what they're like [inaudible] but they would do that. I remember being like, I was really young. I mean, you, Tom knows that I would put a young guys that is the only imagined me like 13. Like I look like an eight. Like as like, you know, this little scale, you know, nineties, like huge, huge pants. Like, Oh, so young. And I would like, all right, I'm going to go up on the stage. Like what was, I don't know why I thought like, yes, these guys were like 19 or totally going to be like, that's awesome. That eight year old just did a stage die.
Speaker 6:
58:49
That's awesome.
Speaker 4:
58:51
Yeah. So I just end up with the gorilla biscuits lost. Leave that like, I couldn't, like, they'd be so stretched out, I couldn't wear them, you know, like to fall off me basically.
Speaker 6:
59:01
Oh, I love that. The first shirt I ever bought was a, um, no one knows this band Sam black church. Um, it was two XL long sleeve.
Speaker 4:
59:11
Huh?
Speaker 6:
59:11
What the hell was I thinking? Like, why are they thinking that? Dot. Sad. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm so glad we
Speaker 3:
59:22
wrote up the tee shirts. Yeah.
Speaker 6:
59:25
Was that, was it just the tee shirts? That's what's happening. I don't know. So you know, I saw it. Have you been like whatever, two months ago he asked me the same thing and had to show him the picture and I was like, you said you wanted one, even noticed this all you guys are so quick to be like, I want one. Not no one, not one person anything.
Speaker 3:
59:44
My favorite thing, my favorite thing to do at equal vision, um, was to get back anything from the plant the poster and come in and go, Hey, does anyone know how to spell November? Um, does it, does it come with two V's? And they'd be like, what? And then I just laugh and then, but that was my lane.
Speaker 6:
60:06
Yeah. I thought you meant like you were, you were the guy who are like, Hey, do you guys print of the like, and they're rolling and they really weren't whatever.
Speaker 3:
60:15
I would just fuck with them every time. Yeah. Got it. Um, well, really quick. Um, we could obviously talk for another 25 hours, but, um, um, I do remember our PL when you were on a plane and you were flying back and you were IMing me and it was like, I don't know, four hours went by or something. You were, you were like, Oh, I'm landing, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 6:
60:39
That seems like something I'd definitely [inaudible].
Speaker 3:
60:43
Um, but, but real quick, just some fast stuff. Um, don't have to think about it too long. Um, favorite emo band from that genre? Yes. Favorite record? Just record period. Let's, let's keep it with the theme, I guess. [inaudible]
Speaker 6:
61:05
email record. I mean, it's gotta be [inaudible] hear you. Yeah. Maybe tell all your friends here your intolerance. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
61:16
Um, uh,
Speaker 6:
61:18
I will throw in the devil and God is raising side.
Speaker 3:
61:21
Wow. Okay. That's a great record. Uh, um, who would be, um, what was a Bay, this is something that like maybe annoyed you. What was the band that was called emo that wasn't that you would just want to be like telling me everyone like, no, this isn't,
Speaker 6:
61:45
gosh, that's hard. I mean, yeah, that's hard because I want, I want to think there's like a super mainstream version. What's in mappers? Like slug from atmosphere. I didn't get what was email about him.
Speaker 3:
61:59
That's a good answer. [inaudible]
Speaker 6:
62:01
yeah, like I liked them with time. I was like, I mean, there's nothing remotely emailed about this guy.
Speaker 3:
62:07
Yeah. Um, let's see. A favorite new band that you feel is influenced by older emo,
Speaker 6:
62:16
the theater,
Speaker 3:
62:17
defeat her. Nice. Good battle. Um, and for everyone on the podcast, I'm going to be putting links and stuff up on [inaudible] dot com so you can find out all these bands because we've made all these obscure references. The only Trevor and I know, and you need to be in the know, um, band you wish you saw but didn't,
Speaker 4:
62:38
Oh, but didn't say anything. Email only like, whoo,
Speaker 3:
62:44
we can, we can not, I that mine is Nirvana. I never got to see that. And I was,
Speaker 4:
62:51
I never got to see them. I never, yeah, I never, I see the regional smashing coming into line up. Um, that was kind of a moment for me. I'm already really big smashing Lincoln span, but no band. I wonder who and I never saw [inaudible] state. That would have been great. Um, what else? I wonder, did I ever see [inaudible]
Speaker 3:
63:19
yeah, that's a good one. And this one
Speaker 4:
63:22
for bands too, like I never started putting little whisk. I would have liked to say now, not even a reunion reunion relative tickets. So yeah,
Speaker 3:
63:29
no, definitely not. I'm banned. You saw, but wish you didn't
Speaker 4:
63:36
God the years 2002 and 2007 eight printing man until they got good. Hopefully. I don't know. I mean, that's it. I don't know. Well, I saw a lot of stuff that I, you know, I don't know though. Like, you know, they all have their merits. It was for other people, but some of them that, you know, like there wasn't anything where I just was like, I mean, I'm sure there was in the moment where I couldn't believe it. But yeah, there's nothing that sticks out to me. Like where I'm just like, that's it. I need that happen.
Speaker 3:
64:09
Mine was definitely broken side. I definitely needed my half hour back.
Speaker 4:
64:14
I did. I would, I mean like, you can be entertaining.
Speaker 3:
64:19
Let's look. Awesome. And last one, um, do you feel like we kinda touched this on with the, our, our, our bank could be our life, but do you feel that these bands will be talked about in 10 years?
Speaker 4:
64:32
Well, I mean, I just talked about still life, right? True, upbeat time. Um, and that band impacted, I, you know, I, I can't think that it's more than 10,000 people, you know, and in the course in the past four years still it gets brought up. Um, yeah, I think so. And I took away, like I was saying before, I hope so. You know, um, I hope that, you know, that, you know, full classes, somebody's diary or their, you know, hammer, let it be or whatever.
Speaker 3:
65:08
Yeah, because the, those kids, like you said, you saw that younger kid at that show, they're there, they're there trying to experience that moment and you know, you're saying that girl going up to Leslie like, that is awesome to me. I would like, I would help that girl out. I'd be like, do you want some records? Are you, you know, not in like a weird way, but like totally cool. Um, and, and just help and sort of be like, wow, if you've obviously looked back and you see the history.
Speaker 4:
65:38
Well, and I think so. I mean, you know, I think that like every, if the musical ones are qualities, it all has to say, you know, like I went and saw the last night, it was such a fantastic show, you know, and, and I think that a lot of people, for a lot of people, you know, like that fan might've ended after [inaudible] in the ambulance. I think they play maybe two songs that predated 2005 maybe or 2006. Yeah. And you know, like it was great and, and I was just like, it's, the music is great. It's, people will still come. And you know, like to me I was like, this is what I, this was about the size man. You know, I saw them on when the artists and the ambulance came out and here they are, you know, I'm going get six albums later or whatever. So, you know, I do think that maybe some wrong, you know, endured the way others do. But, um, I, you know, I certainly think at all, it all has merit. We'll continue that to unearth it. So,
Speaker 3:
66:42
yeah. Well, Trev, I thank you. I know we could, we could spot, hopefully I can have you back and we can discuss some more stuff. But, um, it was awesome to have you in, like I said, as a, as a friend is, and being able to help, uh, you know, washed up email. I think I always love kinda hearing what you say about this, cause you wrote a book about it that solidifies your expertise as far as email goes. And I'm walking
Speaker 1:
67:40
[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible].
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