Cindy Shunk Doesn't Give Up and Lands the Right Job

Cindy Shunk of Sylvania, Ohio is a strong self-advocate. Knowing her rights, she asks for what she needs and wants. She is clear that she prefers to be treated like everyone else. Over the years, she has received support from Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities (OOD) because she is blind.

 After she graduated with a bachelor’s degree, Cindy tried applying for jobs in radio but eventually went in a different direction. When she learned of an opportunity to participate in a master’s degree program, she took it.

 Even with a master’s degree, finding a job did not come easily. Through hard work and determination, Cindy landed a job that she enjoyed, but then she lost the position because of the pandemic.

Cindy persisted again and found a new job, but it wasn’t a good fit. With help from OOD, Cindy, who continued to refuse to give up, found a position where she enjoys helping others.

A guest on the OOD Works podcast, Cindy explains her persisting philosophy and shares about her rewarding job today. She is joined by Dawn Coleman, OOD Vocational Rehabilitation Supervisor with the Bureau of Services for Visually Impaired.

Transcripts and MP3 files are available at ood.ohio.gov/podcast.

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Transcript

Kim Jump: On this episode of OOD Works podcast, I am pleased to introduce you to Cynthia Shunk of Sylvania, Ohio. She is joined by Dawn Coleman, Vocational Rehabilitation Supervisor, who had been Cynthia’s Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor before being promoted to supervisor. Cynthia has received support from OOD’s Bureau of Services for the Visually Impaired, and we are going to get to hear about her experience getting assistance and support with mobility training and tech support so that she can work independently.

So, Cynthia and Dawn, I am so glad to have you as guests on the podcast.

Cynthia Shunk: I am glad to be here.

Dawn Coleman: Thank you Kim.

Kim Jump: I’m glad you’re both here. Cynthia, you go by Cindy.

Cynthia Shunk: Yes please.

Kim Jump: Yes ma’am. Then it’s Cindy. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. Have you always lived in Sylvania, which I understand is also known as Tree City USA.

Cindy Shunk: Yes, I’m born and raised in Toledo. But I’ve been a resident of Sylvania since 1986 and I’ve actually been blind since about six months of age. Born premature, three months early, weighing one pound six ounces. I’ve learned Braille from an early age, since I was five and I went to Toledo public schools through their vision class at their school, at one of their elementary schools for five years. The nice thing about living in Sylvania was when I was in the fifth grade, I got to go to my home district school.

Kim Jump: mhm.

Cindy Shunk: My home school Sylvania, where my sister went, for two years because I was doing so well. That was a really special thing for me. And I am currently employed at the law firm of Scheer, Green, and Burke, where I am a debt advisor where I help people come up with solutions to help them resolve their medical debt. I have two degrees from the University of Toledo. One a Bachelor of Arts in Communication and Broadcasting, and a Master of Arts in Disability Studies. When I am not working, I love to read, travel, spend time with family and friends, and listen to music. 

Kim Jump: Cindy, thank you for that overview. That was excellent. I want to go back for a minute to your younger years and you have a sister, and you said those two years of being able to go to your home school were so meaningful. I bet they were. Especially your sister was older than you, probably someone you looked up to. Can you just talk a little bit more about that. What was that like for you as a young person, especially being blind?  

Cindy Shunk: I’m the oldest one of the two. My sister is younger. When I was at school at Toledo public, I was in a vision class for most of the day. But then I was mainstreamed periodically, but little by little. Then when I got to go to my home school in Sylvania, I got to go to that school, and I was mainstreamed all day in with regular students who were sighted. And that was a very special privilege that I earned. 

Kim Jump: Yeah. Even though you started teeny tiny, you were a fighter.

Cindy Shunk: Yes. I have been blind since six months of age due to retinopathy of prematurity. Because of all the amount of oxygen you had to give me to fight CMV, Cytomegalovirus – I almost died from that – because they gave me 100% oxygen, my retinas detached. I’m able to see some vision. I can see light and dark, and shadows because I had eye surgery done and had that repaired.

Kim Jump: Okay. It’s also interesting to me that you were also able to learn braille beginning, you said, beginning about the age of five.

Cindy Shunk: Yes. 1986 when I was in kindergartner. I use braille even in my job. I’ve used it all through school. I’ve used it in high school. I’ve used it for math to do my math problems. I’ve used it to make labels for things like food items to identify food. I still do today. I use it even today in my job as a debt advisor. Being a form of display that fits below my computer so I can read what I am typing and what JAWS has on the computer for me.

Kim Jump: Oh, excellent. I’d like to ask more about your job, but first, while we’re just kind of taking a look back, you know, I think it’s unique that you have two degrees in communications and disabilities studies. What prompted your interest in those two fields?   

Cindy Shunk: Yes. Communication and broadcasting. As you can tell from this broadcast, I am a very good communicator. I love to talk. I love to get to know people. I always loved listening to the radio. Even from the ripe young age of eight or nine years old. I always wanted to sound like a disc jockey in the box so to speak. And I wanted to emulate them. I loved what they did. I loved their sound. I loved how they presented themselves on the radio because being blind, even on the radio, that’s a medium and you don’t have to look at somebody to enjoy. You can just listen and go ahh, he or she sounds really good. I want to be him or her. And I want to be whoever, you know, on the radio. I went to the University of Toledo, and I always had a dream that I wanted to be on the radio. So, when I went to UT for my Bachelor of Art program, I got to do an internship for one year where I got to be a DJ for one night a week for two hours. I got assistance with it because somebody helped me with the music. Put it on. The CD player and stuff was not labeled but I could tell him or her here’s what I want. Track five on this CD.  switch it over. I want track seven on this one. I had to organize my radio program days in advance. I knew what I wanted to play. So, I would double or repeat it every week. 

Kim Jump: Mhm.

Cindy Shunk: I called it a mixed set. It was a variety of ‘80’s and ‘90’s music I grew up listening to, so that’s what I enjoy.

Kim Jump: Yeah.

Cindy Shunk:  I got to do it. And of course, we have graduation, and we will get to that in a minute. But I didn’t find a job in radio because it’s an ever-changing medium. I mean, we didn’t have podcasts 30 years ago in 1993. 

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: Nobody heard of such a thing.

Kim Jump: Right.

Cindy Shunk: Now, it’s so cool. You can go on the internet and listen to anything. When I go on vacation, I can listen to my home radio station on My Heart Radio. 

Kim Jump: Yeah. It’s really cool to be able to do that.

Cindy Shunk: As far as my other field, my disability studies field…

Kim Jump: Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask. Yeah.

Cindy Shunk: Sure. This happened by happen stance really. I happened to be at the Toledo Zoo one day. It was in 2005. I was at ADA day, which is a disability rights day for people with disabilities. And they had different booths set up to celebrate the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act and I was volunteering there at that time with the Abilities Center. I ran into my counselor at the University of Toledo, who, she’s the one who helped me with my accommodations in class. We’ll get to that in a minute. But she introduced me to a professor that would be my professor for disability studies, and said, we want you in our program. Think about it. We welcome you in. I joined it in January ‘06. Had I not seen it, because I didn’t get a job right away when I graduated. It took me awhile. And I’ll get to that shortly. And I just, it was like, you know, you never know. You can be somewhere at the right place at the right time. 

Kim Jump: Right. And you really were. And so, you illuded to accommodations in college. What were those like for you?

Cindy Shunk: I’ll tell you what. I learned how to be an advocate in high school. My vocational rehabilitation counselor. I started with OOD in high school and showed me how to… 

Kim Jump: Oh wow. 

Cindy Shunk: advocate because when you get to college and beyond, (sneezes) – excuse me. No one is going to advocate for you. No one is going to say, hey do you need this in braille. Your professor is not going to ask you, what can I help you with? Because they’re really going to treat you like everyone else. That’s how I want to be treated. I had to learn to ask the professor, can I see you after class?  Give them a letter, from the, called the Office of Accessibility back then where they would help you with note takers. I had note takers in class for me that I got brailled. I would have people that would write down my test answers for me, in a separate room in that office. They would get everything else brailled that I requested. But I had to be the one to do it. Going to high school, I went to a group at the Abilities Center, the year I got out of high school, when the year I graduated from high school at 18. 

Kim Jump: Mhm.

Cindy Shunk: It was a leadership workshop for about a couple of weeks. That really showed me. I learned hey, you know, you’re your best advocate. So, when I went into disabilities studies, I thought hey, I can be my own advocate. I can advocate for other people too.

Kim Jump: Yeah. You were putting that into place right away. Right from the get-go, it sounds like you were passionate about that and advocating. And then also just figuring out strategies that would work for you. Like you explained with even in your DJ experience and how you were handling, you know, being able to play the music.  

Cindy Shunk: You know what, where’s there’s a will, there’s a way. When I graduated from college the first time, with my bachelor’s degree, I was like everyone else. What am I going to do? I’m 22. I don’t know where my life’s going to go. I don’t want to be sitting on my parents’ couch, you know. But that did happen for a while because I wasn’t working yet. Any my parents, and they are very supportive. They still are today. They told me to try to do things on your own. I went right away. My vocational counselor got me a job. I tried applying for jobs in the radio business. Well, when I found out, hey it wasn’t going to work for me because it’s ever changing. People come and go. I didn’t think that was the place for me. So even though I said I would never give up. I didn’t give up. I went in a new direction. I took a year and a half off because I wasn’t finding work. That’s when I found out about the disability studies program at the University of Toledo when I ran into that professor that she introduced me to in 2005. That was an open door. A new door was opening. A new path. A new direction. A new light. I felt the light that day. I knew that something had to happen out of this. I went home. I said, I’m not thinking about this. I applied and I got in January 2006. I did that for a couple of years. When I graduated in December 2008 with my Master of Arts degree in disability studies. I will tell you, I forgot to tell you, I lived on campus for my undergraduate and my graduate school years. I wanted to be close to home, but then I wanted to be independent at the same time. I made lots of friends there. I was scared to live on my own, but I thought the best way to do it is to start out slow. My parents were only 20 minutes away. It’s funny, my parents I would be home more than I did. I call my parents every other night, hey, I’m still here. I still love you. I miss you. But I don’t miss you because I like being at college. But I still want to check in and say hi and say I miss you.

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: (laughs) I went to freshman camp at the YMCA on campus. They had a chapter. And as an advocate, I called the director of the camp, of the YMCA, and said, I am blind, but I am coming to camp in a couple of months. Can we accommodate? Can we have somebody assist me with getting me food? Helping me with what we’re doing? If we’re playing games, am I going to be able to be included too? They were really good. So, then I met friends through them. I joined their YMCA for a while. I met friends through them, and I loved living on campus. I loved living in the dorm. I loved the experience of going down the cafeteria like everyone else. I loved the experience of doing things, having fun, but being responsible and going to class. As far as going to class goes, I learned how to get around campus with O&M – orientation and mobility that they set up. I memorized where I was going. I had a special bus that I took, a paratransit bus on campus to get me to the buildings where my classes were. 

Kim Jump: You really had a good system going. It sounds like you really just made it work and it was a wonderful experience for you.

Cindy Shunk: Mhm. I also used TARTS, which is Toledo Area Regional Paratransit Service, TARTA, for people who have disabilities. And I try to get to work. I either use them or a cab company and they get me to and from work very efficiently. 

Kim Jump: Wonderful. You got that experience as a young person and really kind of got transportation really under your belt there figured out.

Cindy Shunk: Again, it’s just calling ahead and advocating for yourself. If you want it done, do it yourself, or it isn’t going to get done. 

Kim Jump: Cindy, how about following the Master of Arts program, what was next for you?

Cindy Shunk: Well, when I graduated from my Master of Arts degree in 2008, I again found myself without a job for a while. And I thought, what am I going to do? I can’t live without a job forever. So, I thought I was going to get a job in my field. Again, I did not. I found out that my biggest barrier for me was this, how do I get experience if no one will give me experience to do?  I was frustrated. It took me about 10 years total to get my first job. I took a long time. So, I said to myself, well, I got to change another direction. As I said before, I never give up. I just go a different direction in life because life is about twists and turns to take us different places.

Kim Jump: Yeah. I like how you put that.

Cindy Shunk: And, oh thank you. Basically, what I did is I realized well I’m not going to have a job in my field, I need to get a job doing something because you never know where it might lead down the road. It may be in my field. It may not be. But it’s a job. I started volunteering for a while. For a local hospital. I love to be on the phone. So, I tried finding stuff like phone work. So, I volunteered there. I took calls. I called people to remind them of appointments. I also volunteered at our local Ronald McDonald House. Charity. You might be familiar with them.

Kim Jump: Yes.

Cindy Shunk: Okay. I answered phones for them. I greeted people when they came in and I directed them to where they needed to go. Did that for three years. Loved that. Then my first job comes along. My first job in 2015. I was 34. I got to tell you. I’ve had hundreds and hundreds of interviews prior to that job. Rejection, rejection, rejection.

Kim Jump: Wow.

Cindy Shunk: I said to myself, don’t cry over spilled milk. You’re going to get your job one day. Everybody, my counselor, everybody was telling me, you’re going to have a job. A job is going to come along for you. You deserve it. You work very hard. My biggest barrier was again I’m blind. Nobody wants to hire somebody who is blind and uses a cane.  It’s a big stigma.

Kim Jump: Hmm.

Cindy Shunk: I got tired of that, and I thought, I’m going to get a job. When I was at my job interview for the first job that I had as a call center rep, where I conducted customer satisfaction surveys on the phone, they said to me at the interview, we’re going to offer you the position. I was speechless. I thought should I be happy, should I be confused.

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: I was happy. I was confused at the same time.

Kim Jump: Awe

Cindy Shunk: I’m going to take it. It’s part time, but I’m going to take it. I loved it. I had it for five years. Then COVID hit and shut it down.

Kim Jump: Okay. What a breakthrough for you to get that. And Cindy, I’m just so impressed. That is hard to fathom all those rejections and your ability to stay positive through all of that. It must have been tough.

Cindy Shunk: There were nights when I cried. Yes. But I don’t show it in public just at home and around family because it’s frustrating. I turned to music. I always would turn some music on. Some calm music that made me feel better. I love music and exercise. I love to exercise too.   

Kim Jump: Well, it must have worked for you because I’m so impressed by that. And so you were able to get, after all those wonderful volunteer experiences, then five years, you said at that position, some good, solid career experience for you.

Cindy Shunk: Mhm.  

Kim Jump: Yeah. Then COVID hit.

Cindy Shunk: When COVID hit in 2020, we were all so confused. We were in lock down for, we didn’t know how long it was going to be. I said, I’m going to wait for them to call me back. They’re going to call me back. Okay. A month went by. No call. No call. No call. I followed-up with my boss periodically. We don’t know when you’re going to come back but we think you’re going to come back. I thought I just want to go back to work. Finally, in November 2020, they told us, basically, COVID had bad affect and it’s a big mess and we can’t have you back. I thought, okay, I’ve been ripped, reduction in the force. What do I do? I called my friend at OOD. I get referred back to OOD in October 2020. Ms. Coleman here helped me get back on track again. Being the counselor that she is, I said I want a job. I love my job. This is not my fault. I spent about six months, well maybe a little over a year, looking for my next job. I found that one. I worked for a cab company here in town. Again, worked on the phone. I love to talk on the phone and help people. I knew it wasn’t the job in my field, but it was close enough because I can relate to people who use public transportation. And I use it. I thought, okay, I’ll apply to that one. I got that one. I was a customer service rep. I was taking rid orders. I was checking them. I was helping them with whatever they needed. It worked for a while. The barrier with that one was the technology. They couldn’t get it, it was JAWS, it wasn’t compatible and wasn’t working well. It was reflecting me. Because I knew I could do the job. They were very nice people. They worked with me for a while. But, eventually after about five months, they figured 80% of the job was enough. It wasn’t working. They didn’t want to have to help me every time. I didn’t want to have to be helped because I wanted to do it independently and I couldn’t. That job didn’t work out. Again, I went back to OOD. Dawn helped me again. Last summer, six months ago. The job that I currently have is a debt collector. You’re probably wondering how I go from getting a degree in disability studies to debt collection.

Kim Jump: (laughs) Well, I do. (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: Well, as I said, I did not go to school for it, but here I am. How I found the current job, but I found it kind of right away. Because the other job may not have worked out. But I went home and cried for a while. And then I figured out I’m going to get myself back up on my feet and do what I do best. Get back in the job search mode and find another one. Because when one door closes, another door opens. It did.

Kim Jump: Yes.

Cindy Shunk: In August of, let’s see, last August, August 5th, I’m working with my current job developer and she called me that morning at 8:00 a.m. and said, I think we might have found a job for you. And I said, okay, what is it? She said, it’s in downtown Toledo. It’s a local law firm and the good news is they know all about the JAWS and the blindness because they have another coworker who is blind. And, I thought I want to do this. I went for the interview that day. Got the job about a week later. I’ve been employed there for about six months. Having the other coworker there really helps me. Because he helps me, and I help him. I’m just doing so very well right now.  

Kim Jump: Well, that’s great. I’m going to come back to you Cindy. I’ve got some follow-up questions. I am so thrilled for you. But, I want to ask Dawn, now Dawn it’s neat that while you were in the counselor role with OOD, it’s neat to hear Cindy talk about how she knew to keep coming back to OOD. I wonder if maybe you could just speak to that. The fact it’s not like, someone gets a job and they’re done. Could you kind of share about that from your perspective?

Dawn Coleman: Yeah. Sure. Whenever we close a case, part of the things we talk about, a couple different things. But, one of them that we make sure that we touch on is that if you have problems in the future,  or maybe they’re going to get promoted and they need more training. I always tell them to call OOD. We can sort out what we can do to help. She knew to come back. (laughs)

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: (laughs)

Kim Jump: Great. That’s a good point. Dawn just in case we have listeners who heard Cindy talk about JAWS a couple of times and you just referenced it, could you just explain for someone that doesn’t know what that is?

Dawn Coleman: Sure. That’s a software that people who are visually impaired use. It’s a screen reading software. It will basically read everything that is on the screen so they can still use the software.

Kim Jump: Great. In working with Cindy, what were kind of the priorities when these more recent times that she came back. What were you trying to do to be able to support her kind of where she was at withing her career?

Dawn Coleman: We had many conversations in the time that we worked together about what would be a really good job fit. Cindy had talked about the job where she helped with public transportation for the cab company. After she found out that that might not have been the best fit, we talked about what is going to be a good fit. We kind of talked and we came to the conclusion that she really liked jobs more routine in nature. Jobs that don’t require multiple computer screens up at one time because with JAWS you are trying to manage all these different screens. That becomes really difficult. She enjoys a job environment that’s lower pressure. Where’s there’s not like your tasks are timed. She was eager from the get-go to do any kind of job. (laughs) And she was willing to try any office jobs. So, we had many conversations to nail down what were the things that she really needed to have present in a job that would make her successful. When she found the job as a call center interviewer, that job worked really well. And we really like, gosh, if we could find another job exactly like that, that would work because Cindy really enjoyed that work. I think we’re pretty close to that, where’s she’s at right now.

Kim Jump: You have a big smile on your face. That doesn’t come through on a podcast but when you hear Cindy talk about just the challenges, her determination, and to have you in her court, I know it’s probably very fulfilling for you to be hearing Cindy sharing how much it means to her to have this job. 

Dawn Coleman: Yeah. She’s a go-getter. And when she says I do not stop, that is the truth. So when she did get all of those no’s, and she did get a lot of no’s. It is very hard. It is very hard for anyone looking for a job, visually impaired or not, to get a no, right? 

Kim Jump: Yeah.

Dawn Coleman: We had many conversations about that. You just need one yes. She just tried to keep her head up as much as she could, and to go into each interview confident, and advocate for herself. She has a lot of experience. She knows what she needs, and she is not afraid to ask for that. She’s a really good advocator and I think she’s really grown in her confidence over the years in being able to talk to an employer to land that job.

Kim Jump: Cindy, tell me more about having a coworker that can relate to assistive technology you use. That must be very special for you in the work environment.

Cindy Shunk: Well, let me tell you something. Not only relate, but he worked at my last job before COVID. 

Kim Jump: Oh wow. Cool.

Cindy Shunk: Yes, so it was very helpful because when I met him again…so when my boss, my boss now interviewed me and told me his name, I thought, oh, I think I know who that is. Then I went in for O&M training that day and I thought oh my gosh, we meet again. Like, do you remember me? (laughs)

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: You know, oh my gosh I remember you. We just get along so well. If I have a question about something or if I can’t get JAWS to do something, my boss is like, I’m well aware because JAWS can act up. He knows if we have any problems to call him over. We’ve had to do that. Not often. I’m getting better not having to do that. But there are times when me and him need assistance. And that’s expected in the job because not every employer understands that. So, it’s hard to find a place that does.

Kim Jump: Yeah. I’m so happy for you that you’ve got that supportive environment. In addition to using JAWS, are you using any other tools or technology that help you be able to do your job?

Cindy Shunk: Yes. I’m using the braille display which is on the computer which is right below my computer keyboard. And it gives an output of refreshable braille on it so I can double check my work instead of having to listen to JAWS in my ear. I can read it out loud as I’m looking and proofreading my work. So, that really helps me very much.

Kim Jump: Right.    

Cindy Shunk: I also use a regular desk phone. I also use a marker knowing what buttons are which. I mark the buttons that I use the most with locator dots, which I get at the Sight Center. And they help with marking things. I also use them at home. But as far as the job, I use them for the buttons I use the most. 

Kim Jump: Okay. Great. You know you had some time off then there while you were working on getting back into the workplace. Since August, you’ve been working, how would you say that this new position has impacted your life?

Cindy Shunk: Oh yeah. It’s impacted it in several ways. More than one. First, I’d like to say it’s impacted my life because it’s given me a professional social outlet. What I mean by that is, when COVID hit, I was missing people. I was missing getting up and going to work every day. It’s a whole routine for me. Getting up. Riding the bus. Seeing people on the bus. Seeing your driver every day. I was missing that. So, I really enjoy the routine of going to work, and going into the office, and seeing everyone from the security person at the desk to my coworkers to my boss every day. They all say hi to me. Good morning. How are you today? Have a great weekend. Have a great day. Can I help you with something. Just every day they are so friendly, and I just love that. I love getting out and meeting people. 

Kim Jump: Yeah.

Cindy Shunk: And the people on the phone that I talk to. They seem very nice as well. And the other thing is as far as impacting my life is basically the idea that I am making a difference. Even if it’s just for one or two people a day. I am a debt advisor, but I am helping people resolve their medical debt. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have anybody. I feel like I am really making a difference for them.

Kim Jump: Yes.

Cindy Shunk: I am a great communicator. If you can tell from this podcast right here. I love to talk on the phone. I love to talk to people. I love to help people. I’m usually on the computer for my written communication. The phone for my oral communication. And I am using my disabilities studies degree in a way that I am helping people receive what they need in life. And that’s kind of always what I wanted to do. Again, I never saw myself as a debt collector. But here I am, and I love where I’m at.

Kim Jump: Yeah. And I Iove how much you enjoy people. That you’re getting to interact with people and help people. I can tell that is really fulfilling for you.  

Cindy Shunk: Getting to know people is just…I can walk up to somebody and say hi. I don’t have to look at them to know oh, like maybe I don’t like the way they look, but I would never have that judgment anyway. Even if I could see because I accept people for who they are. No matter what they are. Whether they have a disability. Whether they don’t. And that’s what I want other people to realize in life. I wish more people would be as accepting as I am. And inclusive as I am. Because to feel not included is no fun. But to feel included, I just love that. You make me feel really welcomed in society.

Kim Jump: Yes. Yes. That’s a very good message Cindy. 

Cindy Shunk: And never give up. No matter what you do. Never give up.

Kim Jump: Mhm. Yeah. That’s like your motto. (laughs)

Dawn Coleman: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: It is. I have a bracelet at home. If you could see me, I could put it on right now. I have a braille bracelet that I got before I got my first job before I was 34. And it says, never give up.  

Kim Jump: Perfect for you.

Cindy Shunk: Yes. It is. My mom got that for me. So, love it. I wear it with pride. It’s great. I just want to say, I appreciate all the job developers, and the Sight Center, and the people who helped me with O&M, and also public transportation companies who always helped me to make sure I got to and from my jobs thankfully every day. I wouldn’t be able to go to work without that.

Kim Jump: Dawn, anything you would maybe want to add?

Dawn Coleman: I would say Tiehan Liu was also another big help when I think about your case and work that we did together, Cindy. He really helped with getting the computer scripted and training you on how to use the computer, and their software system with the JAWS. He was just another person that was part of the team. And I would also say her current employer who is really supportive. And that was really nice for me to see an employer that really supports people with vision impairments. That’s huge.

Kim Jump: Yeah.

Dawn Coleman: And Cindy was just fun to work with. She did that never give up, and it’s the truth. And she always just stayed positive. And she just kept going. Kept going. And then she got to where she needed to be. It’s been awesome to see Cindy.

Cindy Shunk: The other thing I wanted to share with you, if people are thinking considering coming to OOD for assistance, I want to tell them this.  It is not easy. It is not easy. You have to want to work, first of all. You have to have a positive mindset to don’t give up because if you’re blind, or have a visual impairment, or any other challenges in your life, don’t give up. Because it’s going to take some time. You also have to do your part. Meaning, if you work with a job developer, job coach, don’t expect them to do all of it. Definitely be your own advocate. Tell them what you need. Tell them how you work. Tell them the pace you work at. They’re not going to know unless you tell them. The other thing I noticed is, again, don’t expect the job developer to do it all for you. You are part of your own job search. You know best what you can and can’t do.

Kim Jump: I’m sure Dawn would echo some of those sentiments (laughs). And maybe we could use a soundbite of that.

Dawn Coleman: That’s great Cindy. I totally agree with you. Yes. And that’s exactly what it’s going to take. Right. You’re right on. And that’s exactly what you did.

Cindy Shunk: Don’t stop until you sign the dotted line.

Dawn Coleman: (laughs) That was my line. (laughs)

Kim Jump: (laughs)

Cindy Shunk: (laughs)

Dawn Coleman: I know I told you that a couple of times. (laughs) Keep applying until you have the line signed.

Cindy Shunk: I just want to thank you for the opportunity to do this. I just love it and I love hearing my story, the world, the public and people who might be thinking about OOD and wondering about what’s involved. Because you have to be patient too. And I just want to thank you for this opportunity today.

Kim Jump: Awe. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much, Cindy. Thank you, Dawn.

Dawn Coleman: Thank you.