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Caroline Karbowski Empowers the Blind Community Through Science & Technology

• Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities • Episode 56

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In this episode, we feature Caroline Karbowski, recommended by the National Federation of the Blind of Ohio. Caroline discusses the significance of Braille literacy and technology in advocating for individuals with disabilities, emphasizing accessibility in education and community engagement. 

Her passion for braille began in middle school, leading her to connect with the blind community in Ohio. She has been involved in outreach programs like STEM2U, which engages students who are blind or have low vision in hands-on science activities and interactions with role models. Caroline also highlights the impact of 3D printing in creating tailored educational materials for students who are blind.

Throughout the episode, she shares valuable partnerships and initiatives that promote inclusivity in scientific fields and underscores the importance of collaboration in her work as the CEO of the nonprofit, See3D, and an Orientation & Mobility Specialist at Perkins School for the Blind. 

Transcripts and MP3 files are available at ood.ohio.gov/podcast.

Find A Cubed Design at ACubed.Design.

Find See3D at See3D.org.

Email Caroline at CarolineKarbo@gmail.com.

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Male Speaker

Welcome to OOD Works, the podcast, a show about unique individuals and services provided by Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities, the state agency that helps individuals with disabilities find a job and be more independent. Here's your host—Kim Jump.

Kim Jump: 0:16

Welcome to OOD Works podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Caroline Karbowski. I first learned about Caroline through our friends at the National Federation of the Blind of Ohio, and I knew she was someone that I would love the chance to interview. Caroline, welcome to the podcast.

Caroline Karbowski: 0:38

Thank you so much, Kim. I'm excited to be on.

Kim Jump: 0:41

Well, it's great having you and I want to start at your beginning of your interest in the blind community, and science, and assistive technology and supports, because it's a really neat beginning. I understand your interest in Braille started in middle school because of car sickness. Could you explain?

Caroline Karbowski: 1:08

Yes, so in sixth grade I decided to teach myself Braille so I could read books in the car without getting car sick. A lot of my friends said that they read chapter books on car trips, but I would always get too dizzy for that. So, I thought, okay, I'll just read Braille books. So, I started with the alphabet, and then I got some print Braille books from the library and started teaching myself contractions that way. But then I realized that Braille is going to be a much harder skill to learn.

Caroline Karbowski: 1:40

I wasn't able to just use the alphabet to read books, so I took a break from Braille for a little bit. But then I came back in high school and started the Hadley Braille class, and then in college I did the NLS transcriber class. So now I'm a transcriber. I use Braille all the time and mainly nowadays I use it for reading when I go to bed, reading still on car trips, as well as for some fun labeling, like labeling the buttons in my car, because I don't have to look down to read everything. I could just use the Braille labels. So, I still use Braille for lots of fun uses, even though I'm fully sighted.

Kim Jump: 2:23

Yeah, that's super fun and interesting. I'm sure that's a great conversation starter when someone sees the – sees the Braille that you're using.

Caroline Karbowski: 2:30

Yes, it's so fun I get to – when I go on airplanes. I get to talk about Braille, show people the page numbers, and it usually is a very good conversation starter, and, in my quest to be able to get Braille books when I started out when I was younger, that also really connected me to the blindness community because I wasn't able to really get books because I wasn't blind. So, some people would give me their extra Braille books, I would take books that were being thrown away. I would make my own Braille using a slate and stylus, and then I eventually got a Braille writer from a friend and so it's been a really great way to meet other people just in my quest to get more Braille materials. And now that I have access and more opportunities to find Braille, I like finding new friends that want to learn and give them some of my old materials and keep the cycle going.

Kim Jump: 3:20

That's super fun. I love that you are so resourceful at a young age.

Caroline Karbowski: 3:24

Yes, it was, it was fun. I remember my librarian finding an old Braille book that was on the throwaway list, and she gave it to me and that was my first Braille book. And that's how I learned a lot of contractions from just looking at the print in Braille and figuring it out.

Kim Jump: 3:40

So, you connected quite a bit with individuals who are blind and use Braille, individuals with low vision in Ohio. Can you kind of talk about some of those connections that started to grow?

Caroline Karbowski: 3:53

Yes, so I first met Deborah Kendrick and Cassandra Jones, who are blind, and they gave me some suggestions of more friends. A lot of them are recommended. I talk to people in NFB of Ohio, and I met other people, that, a teacher at my school, her daughter's blind and people at my school said you should talk with her, and her name is Haley Thurston. She's also with NFB Ohio. And so just from talking with various friends and people, and friends of friends, I got more and more connected and that's really just how a lot of this has been going.

Caroline Karbowski: 4:29

And when I was started with 3D printing for blind people, that also started with Braille too, because I was looking for more opportunities to use my Braille skills. More reasons to justify learning contractions, and I thought, oh, I can add Braille labels to models, I can write descriptions of models in Braille, or Braille address labels when I ship 3D printed models to people. And, then that gave me some more reason to keep learning Braille, and that's when I started to more formally learn it through things like the Hadley Braille class, and then the transcriber class. Because some people had said that my Braille was not perfect yet and I thought it was perfect.

Caroline Karbowski: 5:11

And so, I thought, okay, I need to make this actually good then.

Caroline Karbowski: 5:14

And you know, there were some gaps in my knowledge from just reading print Braille books. I didn't get to learn a lot of the formal rules, but I did get that through programs like Hadley.

Kim Jump: 5:30

Yeah, wow. How long would you say it took you to feel competent with Braille?

Caroline Karbowski: 5:34

Mm-hmm. So, I know I did the alphabet in an hour and then I did the, the Hadley class maybe took me about a year or two. I do remember throughout, maybe all four years at the end of high school I definitely did feel pretty good and competent and knowing all the contractions. But when I started college and did the transcriber course, that's where I got more understanding of rules and making sure, like formatting-things were correct. So, I'd say maybe four years to feel confident or so, and I'm now, you know, know, ever continuing with my Braille reading speed that still, you know, could be better. But I can definitely read Braille by sight pretty well and I read tactically for a lot of Braille transcription. When I need, when I need to have print and I'm proofreading something, I do prefer looking at the print with my eyes and feeling the Braille with my fingers, so I don't lose my place. If I look at both print and look at Braille, I skip more often. That has been a really useful skill for transcribing.

Kim Jump: 6:36

That is so cool. This interest in Braille, and science, took you in a unique direction after high school. Can you talk a little bit about what that led to for you?

Caroline Karbowski: 6:50

Yes, so in high school I really enjoyed science, especially a lot of biology, chemistry. I used to actually do research on plant cryopreservation in high school, and I had recognized that a lot of the lab materials were not accessible for blind people. I was thinking of all the friends that I had met and I realized, you know, I don't think this would be too accessible to you know, our plant lab had, you know, a lot of things that relied on using your site with our current methods, looking at things like data collection. Um, and so that really got me thinking, okay, how can I make science more accessible? Because I really enjoy this topic, and I also was already kind of doing a little bit of that with 3D printing. I liked 3D printing models of science concepts, many of them based on illustrations from textbooks, or from microscopes, or telescopes. And a lot of that came from, I just wanted to show my friends the various science things that I was interested in, and they had similar scientific interests too, but it just hadn't been accessible. So, at college, I majored in biology and minored in chemistry and continued with doing See3D – that is the nonprofit that 3D prints models for blind people that I began in high school. And so, I went to the Ohio State University and studied biology and chemistry there.

Caroline Karbowski: 8:14

I then became a biochemist afterwards, and I studied structures of proteins and, there as well, at that lab, I recognized a lot of opportunities for accessibility, especially with sterile technique, using the different equipment, and how to look at our structures of proteins. Like right now, a lot of it's on computers, but a lot of people are 3D printing the proteins. Even sighted people are 3D printing the proteins to better understand their structure. And I was able to connect with a company called 3D Molecular Designs. They helped me make a 3D print of the protein that we researched at the lab, and I could show that to all my friends and I had since really enjoyed making the lab more accessible and I even worked on a project with Emril Bennett, who's a friend from the Ohio State School for the Blind and from NFB of Ohio, and we made a video series demonstrating accessible lab techniques that we worked on together, and we then presented that at the SciAccess conference.

Caroline Karbowski: 9:19

It was just a really fun experience really. You know, a great way to you know, brainstorm and try new ideas and get them on YouTube to share with others, and I'm continuing to do that presentation at other places. I took it to the International AER Conference, which that's for professionals that work with blind, low vision people, and I'm going to talk about the science, the science accessibility strategies again when I go to Amsterdam at the Tactile Reading and Graphics Conference. So just continuing to share this message and get things out there, because I recognize that a lot of times at conferences, teachers, individuals, you know, aren't always able to go. So, if we can get more stuff just on the Internet that's freely available, that might give people some inspiration to think of accessible strategies that might be more specific to their situation.

Kim Jump: 10:12

It is so cool that you just, you saw that need and became an advocate for labs and research and accessibility. I'm so impressed.

Caroline Karbowski: 10:21

Yeah, it’s fun, fun stuff, and it’s, a lot of it too is ideas from blind scientists that I have met, from working with individuals like Emeril to get different ideas, and thinking about all the people in our community that can support us, you know, talking with the lab companies on things they can make accessible. Some things were just some smaller tweaks, you know, I was able to talk with a lot of the science supply companies at our labs and they even gave us some donations of things to use within our videos and, I showed them how some of their existing products were already very useful for blind people, such as a gel loading guide for fixed volume micropipettes, and now the companies are more aware of those if people reach out to them in the future for that.

Kim Jump: 11:06

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, it's even spread to, to them, the awareness. That's great. I want to, I want to go back to the nonprofit, See3D, that you founded, were you so. So, you were still in high school when that started, and it continues today?

Caroline Karbowski: 11:28

Yes, so See3D began in 2017, when I was a junior in high school. I went to a technology conference called TechOlympics. This is held in Cincinnati and it's actually the nation's largest student-run technology conference. And I used to go there for all you know, years of high school, and as I got to junior year, I wanted to contribute points for our school, because the other years, it was mainly the upperclassmen contributing, I felt like I was just on the sidelines. And so, I thought, okay, this year my contribution would be I’ll submit for the showcase competition. That's like make a business plan or a personal project.

Caroline Karbowski: 12:09

And so I got my high school friends to come join me on my idea, which I called See3D, where we 3D printed models for blind people and made an online ordering system for people to make their requests, and then my high school friends would print them at school, because I recognized that we had all these printers at school and everyone wanted to print, but no one knew what to make, so we would just sit there debating what to make that day.

Caroline Karbowski: 12:34

We also had a lot of half-used spools, and I thought, well, maybe we can use some of this filament to make models for people instead of it just sitting here on the rack and we can also get other high schoolers involved too. So, we presented that idea at TechOlympics and while we did not win, we did get some connections to go to other events, and one of them being the UC Tech Expo. So, University of Cincinnati. There I met Emily Keel, and she is low vision and blind, and she, at the time, she was very interested in getting involved with See3D. She helped me get her high school involved and then Emily and I ended up doing more things with NFB Ohio together. But I just had met her, you know, because someone from the conference recommended that I go to the UC Tech Expo.

Caroline Karbowski: 13:29

It was like that, and that was again all just in high school and then we've worked together doing things like the STEM2U program, Bell Camp or Bell Academy altogether. So that's been kind of a fun experience, and think about, yeah, so I wanted to do that in high school, showcase the project and that really was the launching point for See3D because I was looking for more opportunities to do Braille, and ways to honestly build the team. So, it wasn't just our high school printing, and since then I'm really happy we've been able to go back to TechOlympics. It's still going strong, and we even had an exhibit hall for See3D. I spoke there to students talking about how to take their showcase project to the next level. You know, not have it just die at the conference.

Caroline Karbowski: 14:13

And we even do an internship program for high school students that's through the INTERalliance of Greater Cincinnati, and our internship is even funded through the state of Ohio, where students can be paid to work for See3D doing 3D printing and design. So, it's really been a great way to give back.

Kim Jump: 14:32

You certainly have, and you mentioned the STEM2U program. Can you talk about, a little bit more about what that is and how it benefits students?

Caroline Karbowski: 14:42

Yes, so NFB nationally has a program called STEM2U and then each state hosts their own individual event. It will be happening again this year, Emily Keel is actually running it. But the two years that we did beforehand, one was on the James Webb Space Telescope, and then one was in general just about space. And we do different activities that were from COSI, like the museum here in Columbus. They had kits, and then we worked on adapting the kits to make them more accessible. And then we hosted a day where we did those activities for, with–with blind, low vision students.

Caroline Karbowski: 15:23

Now this year I don't know what the theme is or content this year, but at least when I did it that's what we had done. It was really fun because we had blind role models. We had students from Ohio State's TBI program there, and last year we hosted it at OSSB. So, it was a good way to connect with students and it was for all students throughout Ohio, not just students that are at OSSB. We even have had people that wanted to come from out of state if their neighboring state didn't have a program.

Kim Jump: 15:56

Really cool. And just in case listeners don't know, OSSB is the Ohio State School for the Blind, so really cool connection there for you. I mean you're impacting so many different bodies of people with this passion for accessibility and just making it so accessible for people who can really benefit from it.

Caroline Karbowski: 16:18

Thanks, yeah, I really enjoy connecting with people, sharing the ideas that others have shared and because I think sometimes you know accessibility–things can be difficult or, you know, it may be like, oh, this could never work and then. But then having the, you know, experience and knowing that things can be done helps make the, the process easier. Like you know, I don't know how we'll do it, but we'll ask some friends I know who to contact who might have a good idea, and then I build my network on that. I find more people who might have a good idea, so even things that I thought maybe weren't possible, the next day I realized, wow, I guess that could work. So, it is very fun. That's why I enjoy being involved in the blindness field because I like problem solving and connecting with people and thinking of different ways to do things.

Kim Jump: 17:07

Yeah, you went on to pursue a master's degree in sensory impairments and inclusion and you focused on orientation and mobility?

Caroline Karbowski: 17:18

Yes, and I did that at Ohio State as well. Yes, that was the full-full version there. I guess it was a fully grant-funded program. So, I really recommend if anyone's interested in O&M that they check out Ohio State or even various other schools also have free programs that are fully grant-funded, because there's a high need for this right now and now I work as an orientation mobility specialist at Perkins School for the Blind out in Watertown, Massachusetts, and that's very close to Boston.

Kim Jump: 17:50

Mm-hmm. During your master's program. Then you did an internship. Is that what took you out to Perkins to start with?

Caroline Karbowski: 17:57

Yes, so I was looking for, you know, an experience to go out of state, you know, because I was going to be free the whole summer and I decided to go to Perkins. I worked with their outreach program. This was a summer camp for kids, honestly, from anywhere in the U.S. that wanted to come and stay for three weeks, or five weeks and I was one of the O&Ms there for the students at the camp and these were junior high and high school age students.

Kim Jump: 18:25

That's great. Had you ever done anything quite like that before?

Caroline Karbowski: 18:28

The most similar thing would be Bell Camp through NFB Ohio, which I had done twice, and that's where I honestly really got, fell in love a lot with O&M, just because at that camp we do so much of the activities non-visually with students' role modeling. So from that I'd already done a lot of blindfold travel and railroading things through that camp, and living in the dorms with the kids and so that, that experience and that, even the role modeling from the other, you know, from blind adults there who were giving me tips and things, to them with the students, that was really fun. And I would teach science activities and things there too. And so, when I went into the camp at Perkins it was kind of a similar experience, but now I was more of an O&M teacher.

Kim Jump: 19:10

Yeah, do you have any advice for families that are considering opportunities like that for their student?

Caroline Karbowski: 19:17

So, I'd say, at least for the benefits of a residential camp such as Bell, or the Perkins outreach opportunities, is it gives students opportunities to really demonstrate their independent skills. And maybe they're, you know, not too independent or so, but here we can see for sure we can see, and maybe students know that people are stepping back, they are super, like, have all these skills – maybe they don’t, but you'll never know unless you step back, so that's a huge opportunity just for everyone to learn where the student's at. I know, like, some great opportunities with Bell Camp have been, just when students were with a lot of blind role models and, you know, maybe they didn't think they could do something, but now other people are role modeling that and they can do it.

Caroline Karbowski: 20:03

I know benefits at Perkins, a lot of it was, some students had never met any blind, low vision or visually impaired students before. They were the only one at their school because they came from all over the U.S., and they had finally learned about accessible strategies that existed or, you know, tools they could use, umm, and being able to – especially with the teenager group there – you know, they were able to talk with their peers compared to, maybe having to always talk with adults or so, which they may not feel as comfortable with. And so, I saw a lot of them really just benefiting from that away-from-home experience, which, you know, I liked, even liked when I did some camps when I was in high school, that was a good you know, just like maybe somewhere to like – living on your own at college or you know it gives you some independence, which is really useful, and for, you know independence.

Caroline Karbowski: 20:49

And also, you know, recognizing, like I think sometimes, like for some students, like, oh, you know, if I want to go to college or I want to have an apartment on my own, I want to know where – what skills I need to know now while I'm still in high school. I still have the time to, you know, get – learn those skills. You maybe don't want to find things out the day before you go to college, right? So, I think that, and I know it can be hard sometimes for parents, you know, to let their kids go, you know, on that limb and go to a camp or so. But I think one thing I know that when OSSB also has camps, and I know this at least for Bell and likely for Perkins, is that, you know, the people who run these camps are usually very willing to talk with you ahead of time or give you tours or explain anything that might cause any concerns. So, I think that that helps, and I think, yeah, basically with O&M is you get to, when you have the time to spend like the whole day doing an O&M activity.

Caroline Karbowski: 21:47

It's so immersive, right? We're going to the grocery store because we need to get food. We're going, you know, for Bell Camp we went to the airport, at Perkins we went to an amusement park, you know. All this is so baked into it, and you don't get to have that experience when you're doing your 30 minutes to an hour and a half session during school where you're, you know, your location is very much specific to school. Here you get so much more opportunities to do much larger group trips with the expertise of either O & M instructors, or cane users that you wouldn't get in the school day. 

Kim Jump: 22:22

Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for explaining that that's super helpful. I wanted to ask a little bit more about A Cubed Design that you co-founded, and if you could just talk a little bit about challenges and solutions in making Braille displays more affordable.

Caroline Karbowski: 22:54

Mm-hmm. So, my friends from See3D, Garrett Carter and Enan Srivastava, we decided to start a second company called A Cubed Design. This stands for Affordable, Accessible, Accelerated Design, like A Cubed is like A to the third power.

Kim Jump: 22:59

I like it.

Caroline Karbowski: 23:00

Okay.

Caroline Karbowski: 23:01

And so, each word begins with an A. So, we really had heard from the community that a huge issue was the cost of affordable, or the cost of refreshable Braille displays. And how that, you know, but in that the need of refreshable Braille displays are so high to be able to use that with, you know, our ever-growing technology here. So, we took a lot of our resources together, very similar to how we did things with See3D where we pulled a lot of Ohio State students, high school students work with on us. Same thing with A Cubed Design, we worked with a lot of Ohio State engineering capstone students, as well as people, just, that are our friends and our network to you know, try different software to make the Braille display work on things like hardware to make a new connectuation system that might be more affordable, and where we're at now is we have a prototype with pre-made piezo cells that does work and runs with NVDA, and it's also the case that these cells are in, there's 20 cells in a 3D printed case. So, it's kind of cool. Also run just on a board, a PCB board that we know, our engineering friends you know, coded up. For the pin actuation.

Caroline Karbowski: 24:18

We do now have a patent pending pin new novel pin actuation system that we would, that would hopefully then be more affordable, but so right now we're in the process of applying for grants to really test out this pin actuation system and see does it work on a larger scale than just prototypes? How does it compare to some existing pin actuation systems? But, you know, even if that pin actuation system doesn't work, we still have, you know, our route with the Braille display, with existing cells, we always can try new, different pin actuation systems, and we're really trying to find ways that, you know, people can maybe learn Braille using our device, learn literacy using our device. Trying to like, really help, looking at different aspects and problems within the Braille display, Braille literacy market, and seeing where we can fit in and, because maybe there's a new way or a new place, we can enter the market that people haven't thought about before.

Kim Jump: 25:23

Wishing you well with that, and the grant opportunities, that is just, my mind, is like spinning. That’s just awesome.

Caroline Karbowski: 25:32

It’s fun too. One thing I remember from some of our prototypes, we took them to OSSB, and the kids were so excited. They're like wow, you just built this? You 3D print it? We’re like, yeah, we did it. You know it did, some kids. They're like, wow, I'm gonna learn, bro, I’m gonna try this, but just kind of cool. So, you know, sometimes even if the oh, you know, professionally made Braille displays, you know, may be more functional and it can be more fun to have a DIY Braille display.

Kim Jump: 25:54

Yeah, that's true. You heard it straight from the students, so there you have it. 

Caroline Karbowski: 26:00

So, you know, I think, because I'm very curious about you know ways for students to build their own Braille displays, coding and all that, because a lot of the Braille displays now you, you can't fix them yourself, there's no user serviceable parts, a lot of things are tiny, so we're really trying to find a way that this can be repairable by users, because that's really going to help people with downtime.

Caroline Karbowski: 26:19

You know, if they don't have to mail it back and get it fixed, that would be huge. Or people that might live in a remote area or low resource area where it's hard to mail things back or it might take a super long time. You know, if they could just fix it as easily as some people can fix their computers or you know someone with a engineering background near them could fix it, that's going to make things a lot easier.

Kim Jump: 26:42

Yeah, that's great. I love the vision you have for that.

Caroline Karbowski: 26:47

Yeah, it's a lot of fun, a lot of it too is, you know, from feedback that we've had from the community. So, like again too, if anyone has ideas or things that you know you think we should prioritize especially, like you know, let us know. Like for A Cubed Design, it's the website is A Cubed dot Design. A, c, u, b, e, d dot design. There's no dot com, dot org. That's really actually what it is.

Kim Jump: 27:06 Check it out. We l put it in the show notes for sure. You've branched off in so many fabulous ways, Caroline, I wanted to ask what advice would you give to individuals who, who also want to increase accessibility in their communities. Maybe not for blind or low vision, maybe it's. Maybe it's a different kind of accessibility, but if they've got passion for it, what? What advice would you share?

Caroline Karbowski: 27:40

Oh, this is a great question. So, the first thing I would think of is starting out where you see a need. So, if you yourself need something that's more accessible, or maybe you have a friend or family or like you're noticing, you know, like when I was in the community, I noticed there's no Braille menus here, I know someone could benefit from this. You know, trying to find like a need and it helps if you have someone that has really documented the need, compared to, say, a perceived need, you know. So, step one is find, like a real need and then, you know, go to whoever has the, person that can make the change about this access issue. Go to them with a proposed solution instead of just there's no Braille menus and then, sitting there, you know, maybe say there is no Braille menus, why sitting there you?

Caroline Karbowski: 28:26

Maybe say there is no Braille menus, why don't you? Can you contact or here's the contact info for you know, the Clovernook Center for the Blind, a visually impaired. They make Braille things. Or you know some, some resource, maybe have some homework done ahead of time to make it very easy for that person to say, oh sure, because usually they there are, you know like, pretty willing to do it. They just don't usually know where. Now there could be a cost thing too.

Caroline Karbowski: 28:50

But you can also say, oh, you know, I know of this funding opportunity. You know, like you can you know, if you have some things like that, like I know for sure, like at Clovernook right now they have an arts and accessibility grant where museums don't have to pay to have things like Braille, large print, and 3d models in the museum. So, those are for granted. So, I'm every time I go to museums now I just let people know about that, you know. So, yeah, come with the solution to the table and you can also start out with some small things. Now, this is a thing from entrepreneurship, we know. We talk, talk about like MVP, which is minimum viable product. What is something you can do to validate that this need is real or that there's some traction because if you start with something small you can get the ball rolling. So maybe you really want to make you know your school accessible. Why don't you start out with something that doesn't really cost money, why don't you, then you can elevate the things that are gonna be huge structural changes.

Caroline Karbowski: 29:49

Um, maybe that's like I know, like some places we didn't have Braille labels. Maybe you first start with like putting stickers for Braille labels and then you're like okay, let's get professional Braille signage. Okay, let's get a tactile map. Okay, you know like you can like, yeah, you know, elevate your access needs from there. But I think that the advice actually had like from a teacher I have from high school who said, come to me with solutions that are easy to say yes to. And if someone says no, you know maybe say, try and find, adjust your oppress to make it become a yes or a maybe I like it right. If someone I like, whenever I meet people too, I don't like to say no, I like to say how, okay, no, we can't put Braille labels. Okay, how can we put Braille labels right? That's the and that's where it's um, encourage people to come up with solutions. So that’s my biggest advice there.

Kim Jump: 30:35

Just so practical and and you come at it so positively and and helpful when you, when you, when you do bring those proposed kind of ideas too. I do want to give a little plug here at Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities. We have a newer team at our agency, a program called Accessible Ohio, and we actually have Accessible Ohio specialists who will consult directly, at no cost, with local partners throughout Ohio to, you know, help identify barriers if they're not really sure, you know, where to start and establish goals for accessibility. You know everything from planning and awareness, navigating a space, moving about a space, creating environments where everyone can participate and also addressing personal care. So do reach out to OOD if you think Accessible Ohio might be able to help. I love these very practical tips, Caroline, that you're sharing that individuals that want to help make a difference. It's a great strategy that you've shared, thank you.

Caroline Karbowski: 31:43

That's awesome. I'm hoping to help other people too. So, I use that today. You know, even in my work. I use that in school. You know, if I am going to be absent or something, I propose a solution for what to do in my absence, and I think that, that helps keep the ball moving.

Kim Jump: 32:00

Yeah, it really does. Before we wrap up here, just a little bit more about what your day-to-day work at the Perkins School is like, in your O&M role, and do you have other kind of responsibilities or areas of interest there as well?

Caroline Karbowski: 32:17

Yes. So, in the fall I started out working in both the secondary school and the lower school, so I had students all the way from ages seven to 18. Right now, in this now winter semester here, I just am in the lower school and so I work with, just like the little kids. And one thing that's really nice is I have many other O&M instructors at Perkins that I get to bounce ideas off from, learn some new strategies as well, as I really do enjoy working with the other service providers there. So you know we have teachers, PT, OT, speech, behavior analysts, and so when we I get a lot of ideas and things from them as well, or ways to collaborate on IEP objectives, and I hadn't had that experience of working with all those different types of professionals, you know, beforehand, so I think that that is really fun. I also, one thing I do enjoy about Perkins too, is I have students that use all different travel modalities, different communication modalities. I have kids that use walkers, wheelchairs, canes, modified canes, students that talk with, you know, speech with sign communication cards, eye gaze devices, and really just seeing all of that and how feasible, you know, all these different methods can work, different ways to communicate and travel. It really just helps me think of new ideas and really rethink things that you thought might not be possible, and now you see it happening every day and being in a positive environment where everyone is thinking about different accessible strategies has really been fun.

Caroline Karbowski: 33:55

Um, some other things—my main role at Perkins is, yes, doing like travel with students, but you know we also do things like, like hoping to do some more with 3D printing there, hoping to like, I'm trying to start some things with that and some collaboration with See3D or just other you know, other orgs. Another thing we're starting is doing some cane repair. So, there are some volunteers in our assisted device center that do cane repair and now trying to see if we can train students on how to repair their canes. So, I'll see where those go. Hoping to do some more collaborations with different organizations throughout Boston to make more like field trip ideas for students, so seeing how soon where that goes. I love doing tactile maps, do a lot of that with our Velcro boards at Perkins, making maps of different places throughout campus, and honestly like continuing like lots of collaboration with people throughout all the different departments. 

Kim Jump: 34:56

Collaborating seems to be a strength of yours—it seems to be a theme that goes way back.

Caroline Karbowski: 35:02

Yeah, exactly, it does go. It does go way back, and so that, that's I. I do really enjoy trying to, like this kind of even goes with See3D, like for one. This is— someone once gave advice to me that I don't do everything with See3D because then it would take too, too long, and it would burn me out too. So, like with See3D.

Caroline Karbowski: 35:25

My main role is, you know, a lot of the Braille stuff and connecting people, finding people with different skills. Like I personally do not design complex 3D models. I used to do some print. I don't do that personally as much, but I do know how to do it. So, I focus more time finding other people who know how to design, who know how to 3D print, who know how to do these skills, and I work on connecting them. So, same thing at Perkins. I don't know how to do everything there, but I know okay.

Caroline Karbowski: 35:51

Well, I need to find someone that knows how to use a rollator, because I don't really know that 100%. I'm going to go talk to the physical therapist. I need to find someone that knows how to use this communication device. I'm going to go talk to the speech and language pathologist, right? So, thinking of, you know, you don't have to know every single skill and nor is that always. Maybe good because you, even if you, you know, I still talk with other O&Ms, even though I I technically specialize in O&M, right? So, I, I think all I think about other people that you can collaborate with, because you know, when I've been stuck at work, I just ask someone for help there. When I'm stuck with See3D, I go out to the, the 3D printing community, and same with, like my friends at NFB Ohio or like OSSB, you know. Again, I can find other people who have any more experience who can provide some good advice.

Kim Jump: 36:41

That’s great, that’s great. You're such a connector in general.

Caroline Karbowski: 36:48

You know, if anyone listening wants to connect, definitely reach out here Like, yeah, the big one here is with.

Kim Jump: 36:53

That's a perfect segue too for you to. I know you shared A Cubed Design, but, but listeners might be like, yes, I want, I want to connect with Caroline, so what, what would be the best way to do that?

Caroline Karbowski: 37:13

So, one option here is like for See3D like if you have 3D printed models that you want or just the designs. The website is See3D.org, that's S-E-E, the number 3, D, .org and our email is info@See3D.org. For A Cubed Design, like again, it's A Cubed Design is the website, and my email is Caroline@ACubed.Design, and then A Cubed is A-C-U-B-E-D. You can definitely reach out to me on LinkedIn. I recommend sending a message, just so I know you're not a robot, I know you're a real person. I recommend that, and you also can email me personally, too, at CarolineKarbo@Gmail.com. That's C-A-R-O-L-I-N-E-K-A-R-B-O at Gmail dot com. Or if you know anyone at NFB Ohio, I'm sure they can also give my email to you, too. Yes, I definitely would love to reach out and talk with other people.

Kim Jump: 38:08

Thank you and thank you just for what you've been doing for years now for people in the blind community, low vision community, and just your passion and spreading that through science and research and with students at the Ohio State School for the Blind and beyond. I mean it's really impactful what you're doing.

Caroline Karbowski: 38:31

Thank you and thank you everyone you know out here in the world too, who has helped me in you know, giving me the support to do all these things too and encourage me to do things, encouraging me to you know, reach out for help or be a connection. A lot of you know my interest has just been fueled from other people's excitement and things too, when they have new ideas. So, I'm really appreciative of you know, especially all the Blind, low vision people who have given me so much different advice and feedback and things too, like so much with See3D is based on feedback of models. Honestly, a lot of O&M is feedback and asking the kids what they want to do or what they want to prioritize. So, I'm really appreciative, just like the whole community here who has you know, especially people who have really believed in me from the start to in Ohio.

Caroline Karbowski: 39:21

You know, going back to my high school librarian who gave me the Braille book that was going to get thrown away, right? So, you know some things like that, or I also. You know some things like that. Or I also, you know, have some TBI friends that I met who gave me a slate and stylus. You know people who gave me some of their old Braille books. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Those people really helped me get started here.

Kim Jump: 39:33

Thank you so much for your time, Caroline. We really appreciate you being part of the podcast.

Caroline Karbowski:

Thank you so much, Kim, it's been fun. 

Kim Jump: 

A transcript of today's episode is available at ood.ohio.gov forward slash podcast. We welcome you to subscribe and leave a review. We're on social media at OOD.Ohio.Gov. Do you have a disability? Do you want a job? We can help OODWorks.com.