Episode 251 - Aundi Kolber, "Strong Like Water"

“Compassion and gentleness create something in us that is very solid and strong.” - Aundi Kolber

How do you define strength? And does the phrase, “what doesn’t kill you make you stronger,” really true? On today’s edition of Restoring the Soul, Michael welcomes back Aundi Kolber to the podcast, and they’re going to unpack the essence of true strength and discover that God has, and always will be with us on our journey of becoming more beautifully human in the midst of adversity.

Aundi’s latest book, “Strong Like Water” releases on March 21st. The following links will offer you an opportunity to pre-order the book. Aundi has also made available some bonus content via her website, and we’ve provided that link below.

Aundi is a frequent guest of Restoring the Soul; in fact, her “Try Softer” interview with Michael was the most downloaded podcast of ours to date. She is a licensed professional counselor from Castle Rock, CO; her work has been featured on Relevant, CT Women,  The Huffington Post, The Mudroom, Happy Sonship, and Circling the Story. We’re always thrilled when Aundi can join us for the discussion - you’re in for a real treat today.

Helpful Resources:
Bonus content from Aundi

Pre-order Strong Like Water
Baker Books
Tyndale
Amazon
Barnes & Noble

Previous episodes with Aundi
Episode 110 - Aundi Kolber, "Try Softer, Part 1"
Episode 111 - Aundi Kolber, "Try Softer, Part 2"
Episode 70 - Aundi Kolber Part 1, “Healing Trauma: Getting Unstuck and Becoming Whole”
Episode 71 - Aundi Kolber Part 2, “Healing Trauma: Getting Unstuck and Becoming Whole”
Episode 199 - Aundi Kolber, "Understanding Attunement"
Episode 200 - Aundi Kolber, "Discovering Self Compassion"

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

Brian Beatty: 0:12

Hello and welcome to restoring the soul, a podcast dedicated to helping you close the gap between what you believe and what you actually experience. I'm your producer Brian Beatty. Thank you for listening. Now, how do you define strength? And does the phrase What doesn't kill you make you stronger, really true. On today's edition of restoring the soul, Michael welcomes back andI Kolber to the podcast. And they're going to unpack the essence of true strength and discover that God has and always will be with us on our journey of becoming more beautifully human in the midst of adversity, and his latest book strong like water releases on March 21. And if you go to the show notes, you'll discover several ways to preorder the book. Andi has also made available some bonus content via her website, and we've provided that link in the show notes as well. Andi is a frequent guest of restoring the soul. In fact, her try softer interview with Michael was the most downloaded podcast of ours to date. She's a licensed professional counselor from Castle Rock, Colorado, and her work has been featured on relevant CT women, The Huffington Post, the mudroom, happy sonship and circling the story. We're always thrilled when andI can join us for the discussion. And you're in for a real treat today. So Now without any further delay, here's your host, Michael JOHN CUSICK.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 1:48

So welcome to the restoring the soul podcast, my dear friend andI Kolber. Welcome back.

Aundi Kolber: 1:55

Thank you so much for having me back.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 1:58

I'm excited to talk to you because it's been a minute, as they say, last time you were here at our offices in Lakewood, Colorado. But we're catching up a little bit before I hit record. And the big news is you have a new book coming out in March of 23.

Aundi Kolber: 2:17

Yes, yes, I do. I have strong like water coming out. And I'm so excited about this work and just excited to share a little bit more with you.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 2:30

Congratulations to you. It's it's not a small thing to write a book.

Aundi Kolber: 2:36

That is so true. I know. I know. You know, and I think it's a special thing when another another author sort of kind of understands just the labor. It feels like you know, because I am a mother, I sometimes liken it to birth like it's like having a very long labor. And though they are different and distinct. There are similarities between my experiences of childbirth and my experiences of birthing books.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 3:07

Well, I've only been told and I've also certainly been forbidden from julienne to make any birthing labor, kind of a mouthpiece. He said it's just, it's just not fair for you do so. But we'll trust that I understand something of what you're saying, you know, your writing is so personal and intimate. And you blend the spiritual and theological with a clinical and professional and then a scientific aspect all together in such a rich, rich way. And therefore you're not just writing a book to get it out there to sell a book, you're actually writing your own story, and what you have learned in life. And what you do is you help people. So this is really on the out on paper. Would you say that's fair?

Aundi Kolber: 4:00

Yeah, I think that's that is fair. And I feel very honored by those words. Because I think, for me, it's definitely so much more than just creating a product, you know that this is something that, my hope is that it's out of the overflow of my own journey. And not only my personal journey, but my work with clients, my research, my own blending of understanding various theories, and wanting to bring them together in a way that they are more full and more whole. When I hopefully bring them together. And I know for me, particularly as a trauma survivor. A lot of this is born from what I have needed to do in order to heal. And it's also been the work of home for my clients figuring out how do I Do not just put this clunky, sort of checklist on people, but how do I see people in the fullness of the image of God in them and attune to that. And then using the the many tools that are available to us the spectrum that God provides to us, sort of being able to have some flexibility to choose as it is helpful. And as it is appropriate to create something new from all of those things.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 5:33

I love that because I often say that when it comes to transformation, one size doesn't fit all. And that just as people go mad in idiosyncratic ways people heal in idiosyncratic ways. Although there are some commonalities, I want to talk about the book. But first, if we can look backwards a little bit, you've told me before that you're just kind of Starstruck with the fact that maybe that's not the best word because that can be presumed as as like conceited, you've been dumbfounded on one level, that try softer, your first book has had as big of an impact as it has, and that it's kind of exceeded your expectations. Now, it didn't exceed my expectations, because I had the privilege of endorsing it. And I just thought, This book will change lives, but your life has changed as a result of writing the book, and as a result of putting your story out there. So two questions. The first one is How has your life changed as a result of having a successful book like this, when you were just on the therapist, in Castle Rock, Colorado? And the second question is, how has tryst softer changed people's lives? Because I know that as authors, we all have a hope for what will happen. But you've got you've had the privilege of meeting people getting emails, comments on social media being on podcasts. And there's a lot of a lot of chatter about your book. And its impact, which is why we give a copy to everybody that does an intensive at restoring the soul, we can cases of them around.

Aundi Kolber: 7:14

Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, just first, for just the just the honor that you speak about me with and this work it it means so much. Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, I did not, I don't think I could have even have dreamed that sort of in publishing, they call it a tail. Like when your book comes out. And usually in the launch, you get sort of some excitement. And then a lot of times, which is okay, if this is part of how it goes. Sometimes that excitement wears down. And you know, you might not sell a lot more books. And that doesn't mean that's not a good book, that's just sort of people's attention span sometimes only lasts so long. And what we've seen with try softer, my editor says that it has a very, very long tail, which means that it continues to sort of get in folks hands at a rate that is, I do feel a little dumbfounded, you know, like, I think I think the last count that I heard was something like 75,000 copies sold, which, frankly, for a person who was like, Hey, I would just like to get these words on a paper and I just really want to create something that, you know, for me, it was like, first and foremost, thinking of my younger self, and then ultimately, how could this serve other folks out of what I've learned, and so that whole piece, I feel profound gratitude to God, because it feels like for me, what it has felt like is, you know, in the story in the Bible, where the boy comes with the loaves and the fishes, and then Jesus blesses that, and he feeds a whole multitude. And I feel a little bit like that boy, who brought something very real, very tangible. This is truly the fruit of my own education, healing and journey that is real. But there is no way in my humaneness that really, for it to be multiplied, like, for me that just I see God all over that, because it's so far beyond my capacity of what I could probably have even hoped. So, so just to speak to that, and how my life has changed. I mean, I think what's interesting is that in some ways, it's changed kind of significantly like I and then in other ways, it hasn't at all, you know, I mean, in many ways I just am on the, you know, doing what I do and just really committed tenaciously committed to my own healing, especially in a world where on See, it would be really easy to lose yourself in this idea of some sort of momentary fame, right? Even for reasons that are like really beautiful. But I think there for me, it's actually been the the call to go deeper into my own journey to the commitment of, I am so grateful when I hear good feedback, and I feel so blessed. But it almost feels like a child who's growing up. And I'm like, Oh, look at you look at you're out there doing that thing. And, and it's still connected to me. And it's still a part of me. But it's also like, try software's out there sort of like doing her own thing. And I love that. And I love that she sort of been able to have that even though and then it ultimately comes back to me. But sometimes I do get recognized at some really random places, like at the airport, or the mall, or people will just come up to me and say, Hey, I think I think I'm reading your book right now. I had this woman say, Hey, I, I started reading this book last night, and I think you're the author. And it was. So I mean, there aren't some of those moments. But it's, I think for the most part, it's a lot more just being committed to my own journey. And in terms of the peace around hearing people's experiences with it, holy moly, I mean, I, I get emotional, just even when I consider some of the emails, some of the feedback. I mean, things that I hear are, you know, this is the first time in my life that I've read a book that integrates faith in a way that makes me feel loved. And that like I can actually heal, and that I can bring my faith with me. I hear things from folks who are like, you know, I've been, I'm a complex trauma survivor, I felt like I had to almost leave my faith so that I could heal. And what I'm learning about in this book, like helps me to know, you know, just how valuable I am and tools that reinforce and strengthen my own healing. I mean, just some of the ones there are times when I just sit at my computer, and I just weep. Because it is a profound honor, it is to be even a small part of someone's journey, as they partner with God in healing.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 12:38

And again, you have gone to seminary and you have a graduate degree, and you're a voracious learner and self study or, and you're part of a professional community where you offer and receive. But it's really also the loaves and fishes of your own story and your own journey. And back to what you said, this is what I needed. And my bias is that that's what the secret sauce is in your book is that you don't just share it once as an illustration at the beginning. But your wisdom is written all throughout, even in terms of how you address the readers and how you interact. So I'm so happy for your success. And I really resonate even vicariously with your readers, when I've had people respond to things that I've written or said, and you hear like, Whoa, I never I had hoped and prayed for that. But I couldn't even imagine that. And you see, in real time, how somebody was impacted by all that labor that you put in. And at one point, I was struggling to finish surfing for God. And one of my friends said to me, sit and write and pretend that there are five or six men sitting in front of you, who you have counseled or who you want to talk to? And what would you say to them. And it totally changed the kind of conversational flow that was there. And that's another thing I love about try softer is the conversational aspect of it, where people feel like they're sitting down with with you. And that's really neat.

Aundi Kolber: 14:14

Thank you so much. And yes, I mean, I'm just so grateful for the work that you're doing. And I it's so encouraging to me, you know that we get to do this collaborative, this collaborative work, right where just like the healing continues, and that we sort of create more and more spaces that people can enter in and know how deeply valued they are.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 14:36

Yeah, it's a cool thing, podcasts and I often joke now that you know, everybody has a podcast, including pets and thing people like that are living beings like that. But who would have thought when I started graduate school 30 years ago that you could get colleagues sitting around or people of different disciplines and thinking deeply about the work that they've done or the work that they're creating. And I really feel like it's a brand new medium that's allowing people to access healing in a way, that's pretty profound. Because all of the clients that I work with, I don't know if you experienced this, they've got three or four podcasts on rotation that they listened to.

Aundi Kolber: 15:18

Absolutely, yeah, no, I, I've definitely seen that with folks I work with I mean, I have that I think it is just a great resource for folks. Especially when you know, especially the last couple years, sometimes connection has been difficult. And so to have that, you know, the tone of someone's voice, right, we know, through polyvagal theory, how sound can communicate safety to our bodies in a way that is really vital. And so I think I love reading. And I think this is a way that we get to connect with people. That is really special.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 15:58

So out of your writing, try softer. And then out of life, this new book, strong, like water has emerged. And tell us about the new book.

Aundi Kolber: 16:12

Yeah, so strong like water? I in some ways I have to get go, because I think it probably feels a little bit like, Wait, where are you just talking about try softer. And now, you know, here's strong like water. And one of the things that I've been saying is that, first and foremost, there's a sense in which strong like water was, was birthed out of these years of learning to try softer, almost like, there was no like, it was almost like, of course, that's what would be birthed. That it is that gentleness, you know, and this is something I've been saying for a long time, things like compassion, and gentleness, create something in us, that is very solid, that is very strong. And even the last chapter of try softer, is about resilience, you know, so strong like water, what began to happen for me is, there's a lot of both and this to this book, like, I would say, in many ways, this is a book I have also been writing my whole life. Because part of my story is that I was known as being the strong one, I have often in my life been perceived as having what I would say a certain kind of strength. And that strength, a lot of the time was really about being fully or partially in a trauma response, if I'm totally honest. And so over the last couple of years, what started to happen is I kept having this sense of like, I don't want people to feel like they have to be strong like that all the time. And I want to invite people to know that it takes a lot of strength to heal. And so what would it be like for us to create a more expansive view of strength to say that what I call it in the book is situational strength. And that's what I would call is sort of rooted in that survival response that when we're showing up in the world in a way where we feel like it's life or death, there is a type of strength that our body accesses, and then that is valid, that is valid, because that feels like what we need to do. And as we have the safety and support that we need the resources, our body naturally moves towards what I would call a more integrated strength. And so in the book, I talk a lot about this concept that I would say is is called the flow of strength. And really, the book is all about this journey of honoring the both and ness of all of this work, like we want to learn to have and access the resources we need. So we can move towards a more integrated strength towards that sense of, you know, when we bring in like the window of tolerance, for example, like our prefrontal cortex is online, we're in our window, we're in our ventral vagal. That's more where we're living when we're in integrated strength. But what I have found is a lot of folks shame themselves for the times that they are experiencing triggers, or trauma responses, or anything that feels connected to not being fully integrated. And so my hope is is that that There's a sense in which this is both sort of a map. And sort of a way to learn, how do we come back to ourselves and access safety again and again, so that we can honor how we've shown up in the world and continue to live in a more integrated way. There's a

MICHAEL CUSICK: 20:21

lot there. So with that shift to the metaphor for a minute, because as you were talking, and you talked about a more expansive view of strength, I was thinking about water as ice, steam and liquid and the molecular structure. And so how is water strong? I'm sure that you unpack that in the book.

Aundi Kolber: 20:43

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the reasons that I love the metaphor of water is that water can be adaptive, based off of different circumstances, right. So it could be steam, or it could be ice could be a solid, or it could be liquid. And not only that, but water is right, water can be really small, or water can be really big. Water is tenacious, it can get around things in ways that through the tiniest Creek, like like tiny little crack, water can get through, like there is a sense in which water is, is like, yes, it's like water is so able to adapt to so many different circumstances. And there's a sense in which I see that in us, I believe God designed us in the goodness of God is that our body, as we perceive the level of safety that exists, we will adapt like water. And that's where that flow of strength comes in. That is it as our body perceives, like, Oh, this is not safe, like, the best thing for me to do is to be in situational strength. Like, that is a gift. That is a gift because that allows us to continue to survive. And it's also important to help our bodies, that as we're able to learn when those processes are over, right, like, like, oh, that trauma has actually ended. So as we have the resources to learn that this is also part of strength. And so receiving care, receiving the ability to what I talked about in the book is something the phrase compassionate resourcing. And so that's, that's what I would say is a big difference between try softer, and strong like water, I definitely touch on this and try softer, but in strong like water, I really try to equip folks with even more ideas to sort of leverage areas of their life, or areas of their experience that they can begin to connect with through the lens of safety, to help them move along that flow of strength in the ways that they need.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 23:10

And without that safety, then the strength will either diminish or disappear, or it will escalate and take over fight or flight or freeze or faint.

Aundi Kolber: 23:21

That's exactly it, what you're naming that it's all based on our ability and our body's inherent ability. I really in the book, I pull on a lot of like polyvagal theory, we use a lot again, of the window of tolerance language to tie this to the flow of strength, understanding again that, you know, for so many folks, right, like we are taught to just shame ourselves, if we're not showing up in the world, in a certain way. But what if we could get curious, and we could say, oh, my reaction to this moment is about the way my body is perceiving this. So what do I need? And what do I have access to? And and what is available to me, that would allow me then to actually show up in the ways that I want and that curiosity shifts us and and you know, compassion is such a part of that resource. Because if so often we lead with shame. So if we can soften that a little bit and recognize like, Oh no, this is my body communicating something to me. And that is valid.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 24:42

As we're talking about strength in these different places of strength coming from a place of safety. give a couple examples of how you help people to feel safe in the moment you talked about earlier in the conversation, just vocal tone and voice But what are some different ways to before people read the book that they can be thinking about? feeling safe or unsafe?

Aundi Kolber: 25:10

Yeah, so just as a reminder, in case folks don't know, this, um, you know, polyvagal talks about this concept of neuro ception neuroception. So neuroception is essentially our body's autonomic surveillance system. So this is this idea that even when we're not aware of it, our body is constantly scanning for safety or threat. And what that means is, is that even from like, moment to moment, as something shifts in our environment, or sort of our nervous system state will also shift. Now, as we become aware of that, it can shift into what would be called like, we're perceiving it, we're aware of it. But many of us, especially trauma survivors, go through much of our life, having these huge shifts in our experience. And we don't even know that it's maybe happening. There's no language folks haven't been taught this, right. And so they don't realize that oh, like when someone walked in that room, and they looked at me that way, and my body is starting to tense up, that's related to neuroception. Even like, if a if a door perhaps like, let's say you're in a counseling session, I've had this with, with clients that I've worked with where it's like, they want to make sure that the door is locked, because for them, that sort of is a cue for safety, and them not knowing that the door is locked, because in the past in their life, an unlocked door has led to something unsafe, it was important for them to know that. And so all of these things are these constant this information our body is bringing in. And what's important to understand is that for someone who's maybe had experiences where they've had good enough parenting, for example, they've had good enough safety in their life, they've had good enough support. In those cases, our body is going to do a better job at naturally assessing like, hey, is this situation safe? Okay, it's safe, cool, I can go on with my day, folks who have a lot of unresolved trauma, and again, it's going to look different for different people, because our traumas can look very different. That unresolved trauma, what what is happening in our body is that our, our nervous system may not always accurately assess the threat. And so we may sometimes have a mismatch around something that is actually unsafe, versus whether it is safe. And so I bring that up, because the thing is, is that if something is actually unsafe, we want our bodies to access, our stress response, our trauma response, whereas I talked about in strong like water, situational strength, like that is appropriate to the level of like, whatever the proportion of threat is, we need that. So I just want to say that because I think sometimes people sort of get this idea like, oh, man, let's just all be so calm and regulated all the time. And while there's value to that, we want to be able to react when there's threat. So when we bring that back to you to your original question, which is like how do we access safety. This is where it's important to understand that if we are experiencing a mismatch, meaning a situation, for all intents and purposes, is fairly safe, but we ourselves don't feel safe. This is where we have the potential to build in safety. I love that. So Dr. Ariel Schwartz, she talks about resources as anything that communicates safety to our body in the present moment. So if folks have ever have followed my work, you know, I talk about things like for example, grounding, which is using our five senses to really come into the present moment. It's also a form of sort of orienting ourselves in the moment. Both of those are really like wonderful body centered ways that are very accessible, to help our body sort of get a little bit more in alignment with like, what What's happening in this moment? You know, one of the things for folks who've maybe done EMDR therapy, or have done other types of body centered work, I talk a lot in strong like water about what it means to build a resource. So using Dr. Schwartz's definition, it's kind of thinking like, where in my life, how I felt safety. But also where in my life maybe have I felt cared for? Or where is the last time I felt capable? Or where is the last time that I was able to complete something that was challenging? Or where was the last time that I set a boundary? And I was proud of all of these examples, right are these sort of Deb Deb Dana calls them sort of like glimmers micro moments, where in our nervous system, we have access to something that sort of window of tolerance, ventral vagal energy, where as we learn to honor our body, and listen to the information, we can begin to say, Oh, I'm noticing that I definitely have a foot in situational strength. It's a very, like solid foot. So how can I what's available to me in this moment, you know, maybe it's just a phone call to someone that I really trust, maybe that's the most accessible. But as we build those, our nervous system experiences that as safety. And that moves us along that flow.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 31:45

I really liked that there's a couple of things I want to comment on. The first thing is you made such an important distinction about the mismatch, or how we can inaccurately perceive safety versus danger. A lot of times when people are talking about trauma, it's just that something in the present triggers me or activates me, and then I'm back there. But there often is a mismatch between No, it really is safe, it's not an unsafe person. Now, that still needs to be honored. And there's compassion for the mismatch. But it that is an important distinction for how the brain doesn't perceive things in the present. The second thing that I want to comment on is the power of in that resourcing that you were talking about, it's not just positive thinking of saying, oh, one time I did this before, like I jumped off of a cliff into the water, and I didn't die. But it's actually connecting to a bodily state that was there before and that we can still access in the nervous system, as you said. And once we access that positive bodily state, it really is a firm foundation that can then be built upon. And it reminds me of how so much healing is not just about taking something yucky away. It's about creating space for the resiliency and the internal image of God and strength to be released, to kind of come up more like opening a faucet up rather than trying to just shut the faucet off.

Aundi Kolber: 33:19

Yeah, that's so that's so beautiful. And I think, you know, again, the metaphors of water, abound, right? And that, in many ways, I think of, you know, from a faith perspective, I think of our experience of God, that God with us, Jesus is a profound resource to us in this work, right? That, that God is like, the river that doesn't run dry, the well, that doesn't have an end that we can access, right. And the goodness of God is that we that also carry those resources, that those experiences that have been helpful to us, we carry those in our body, and we have access to sort of the resource. And so I think for me, this book felt so hopeful, so hopeful to write that I think that there is this sense in which wow, like even though there is so much difficulty there's there is so much pain, there is so much chaos, there are all these things. And yet, as we are able that God gives us eyes to see what is actually here like this, this reality, beyond reality, in a way that is available to us and that there's no shame when we can't always see it because that's our body, like doing actually what our body's designed to do. And then as we come into safety that shifts that experience.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 35:08

This may be super obvious to you. But I think something just clicked in my mind that tried softer, was really a book about integrating an integrated vulnerability and strong like water sounds like it's about integrated strength.

Aundi Kolber: 35:25

Yeah, I mean, I think absolutely like, I think ultimately, you know, on the flow of strength, that's sort of one side of it is, is moving towards that. And I think what I would say is that it's, it's about living in that flow. So like, recognizing that, I don't think it's super possible, to spend all of our time and integrated strength like I would like to. And yet, I think it's about the mercy of God in the flow of our life, that there's never a time, there's never a time that we are not loved in that flow, and that we are moving towards that place of integrated strength, and yet were held in that whole journey.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 36:16

Yeah, and I think what I meant by integrate, strengthen integrative vulnerability is that in that flow, and I love, love, love the Word Flow, especially as it relates to the river. And Psalm 46, for example, will, quote, be still no than God, but it's in the context of this, there is a river that flows that makes glad the city of God and it's not talking about Jerusalem, because Jerusalem didn't have a river, it's talking about the river within the river of life. But the integrate strengthened my mind is that I can have situational strength. But I can also be profoundly heroic ly strong, by choosing to be vulnerable, and to choose situationally to not have to step up and volunteer to lead this committee that I'm on, because that's going to exhaust me situationally that I can choose to do self care, that I can choose to identify the mismatch that you talked about, and to pause and to find safety within. And for those of us that know that have come through trauma, sometimes that kind of positioning ourselves is like rolling a boulder up a hill to be that vulnerable. So integrated strength is the strong and the weak, the infinite in the finite, the limited and the unlimit. And then integrated softness, is in the same way that you can lead an organization, you can be a trauma surgeon, you could be president united states, you could be a first responder with an AR 15. And you could be vulnerable, and presumably, in some way still be compassionate, patient, kind, gentle, and yet have that kind of fear strength, that it's that it's not just a black or white all or nothing way of defining things.

Aundi Kolber: 38:11

Yes, I love that. And thank you for unpacking that. Because yes, that's absolutely sort of my heart. And my vision for this book is to honor the fullness of the our fierceness and our softness. Like, I didn't lose what we talked about and try softer. I brought it with me. Right, right. Right. Right, that it is actually deeply, deeply intertwined. Into the work of strong like water is the ability to be soft, you know, again, with the metaphor, like water is soft, it can be soft, it can also be very fierce. Which is why for me, I mean, I love I love this metaphor, so much. I mean, I'm sure other folks might get tired of it. But for me, I you know, I've been talking about it for a couple years now. And I don't see that. Get it myself getting tired of that anytime soon, just because it's so life giving to be able to recognize how much it applies to us that it's that if real strength was about being this armored up person, this sort of, you know, if you think about it, like like the ice, right? If ice was the only state available to water. Sure, and in a few situations that that could be seen as being really strong. But it would it would break very easy. It's not flexible, it cannot adjust, it cannot adapt, you know, and that the invitation when I think about Jesus, like I have come that they may have life and have it to the fool. And as I wrote this book, I wrote in that direction I write that this is the work of bringing the fullness of our stories, this is the work of not not leaving the pain that we've experienced not dismissing it, not minimizing it, but bringing it in honoring it. And through the way our body is designed to metabolize pain, that as the parts that need to be sort of let go, they will let go, but the gold, the gold have come to. And I think that was important for me, partly in my own life, that this has been my own journey of learning to integrate. One of the chapters later in the book, I talk about this, I have an experience where I was actually inducted into the Hall of Fame from my high school basketball a couple years ago. And basketball I talk about a few times in the book, but it's a huge part of my story. And it's a big part of what helped me survive my childhood. And I'm so grateful for that. But for many years, I was almost afraid of this fierce part of myself, because I felt like I didn't quite know what to do with her, you know, and so I sort of felt like I had to disconnect from it. And obviously, we can't disconnect from, for me, this fierceness represents, you know, anger and healthy anger and the ability to advocate on your own behalf, things like that. And so this journey of learning to partner with this part of myself, who carried a lot of pain carried a lot of hardship for me on my behalf. That as I learned to resource her with compassionate attention, and compassionate resourcing became, you know, in the language of like Alison Cook, and Kimberly Miller, she became an ally to me, she is an ally to me, I partner with the fierceness of myself and in try softer, harnessing and learning and tending that compassion itself. And so together, that there is a fullness that is created through these different experiences that I think allow, I think me but ultimately, I believe all of us have various versions of this in our own life. And I think God invites us to that.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 42:35

You just mentioned, Kimberly and Alison, and they've been guests on the podcast. And we've discussed their work and use ifs and their boundaries for the soul material here restoring soul. Can you talk a little bit about even though this may not be a direct subject, neither of the books, but I know this is kind of how you do life and your work? How we can find safety in addressing our internal parts and younger parts. In particular, as you talked about, like what might that look like for someone who finds himself getting angry a lot at the grocery store? And as you're talking with them as a therapist, you realize that they don't feel safe inside? In a lot of ways.

Aundi Kolber: 43:19

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, several lenses come to mind, right when you say that, but I think from like integrating sort of the somatic piece and the in the IFS piece, you know, part of what I might encourage that person to do, I mean, first of all, if we can even begin to, like, let's say, we're talking about that in a counseling session, that is probably a good place to begin to build the awareness, right? Because it's possible that like, when they're in the grocery store, they may be so in ifs, language blended with that part, they may not even have the capacity to lead that part to or in the language I use and strong like water, like they may not have the ability to compassionately resource themselves yet, the more significantly, they are, in, you know, they're outside of their window of tolerance, basically. So what I would say is, is that, first and foremost, if you can begin to build that awareness, I think that's really helpful and really important. So I would if, let's say, this is someone who I'm working with, part of what I might begin to do with them is talk through what's coming up for you in this moment, like as you're thinking about the grocery store. So let's say they say, Oh, wow, my chest is a really, really tight and I'm noticing some heat in my face. And then they may be able to recognize Oh, that's the part. That's my anger. Okay, so Here we are, hello anger, like, it's good to see you, you know. And we recognize that this anger is strong like water language. This is this is situational strength. And this is protector, we want to validate first and foremost that that protector is there for a reason. And so as we're doing that, together, what we might just do is begin by, you know, honestly, in that moment, I would actually invite them, if they feel comfortable to take a hand and place it on their chest. And even just to say, you know, is there anything anger, that you're wanting to tell me, and to begin to start a conversation with that anger? If that angers like, you know, there's not enough time in the day and people are always getting in my way. And to begin to validate that anger, oh, I'm hearing you, I'm hearing that you're angry, I'm hearing that you feel like you don't have enough support. Building back from that. I think when we're when we validate our experience, that begins to it's almost like that part, because they feel heard. They don't have to work so hard to get our attention. And then we might just be kind of build back from that, like, hey, what, what, how can I sort of support you anger as we go into this, and that's where I would, for example, I talked about this in strong like water, I might help someone build a future video. This is where we actually practice the like the trip, and build in the resources to the trip. And we add in bilateral stimulation, so that if it anchors into our body, so that that that protector feels more supported in those moments. And if we can't get there or in like, someone is listening, and they're about to go into the grocery store, I mean, I would always recommend doing things like grounding, I would always recommend doing things like putting your phone away, trying to be as you know, doing one thing at a time going, you know, maybe it's going at a time when the store is less busy. So I think there are like all these levels of safety that can potentially be added.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 47:33

And what I love about that is back to your word of simply being curious, as opposed to, oh, gosh, I got angry, and then beating yourself up. And maybe for a Christian saying that was a sin. And I shouldn't do that. And I'm just going to try not to be angry. And we all know where that goes. So thank you, thank you for giving that that example and unpacking that a little bit. We are out of time. And I want to thank you, Andy for your time. And I want to congratulate you on the book strong like water comes out March 21. And it's available on Amazon and wherever fine books are sold. I also know that it's on Kindle, because when I clicked on the purchase today, it said that the Kindle will come out one day earlier than the paperback. So for people who are into pre releases, you can go to Amazon and get strong like water by on the Colbert. It's always always delightful and a joy to talk with you. So I so appreciate your time. I'll be thinking of you and praying for you as you anticipate this this giving birth again as you talked about to your your second book.

Aundi Kolber: 48:45

Well, thank you so much, my God, it's always good to be with you.

Brian Beatty: 48:50

So thank you for listening to another episode of restoring the soul. We want you to know that restoring the soul is so much more than a podcast. What we're all about is helping couples and individuals get unstuck. You know how some people go to counseling or marriage therapy for months or even years and never really get anywhere. Our intensive programs help clients get unstuck in as little as two weeks. To learn more visit restoring the soul.com That's restoring the soul.com