Episode 283 - Alan Fadling, "Finding Peace in Turbulent Times"

We're pleased to welcome our good friend, Alan Fadling, to the podcast. In this thought-provoking conversation, Michael and Alan dive into the current state of the world, particularly in light of recent events in Israel and Gaza. They explore the idea of finding inner peace amidst global turmoil and the teachings of Jesus as a source of guidance and comfort. 

Alan shares insights from his upcoming book and draws parallels between the turbulent times that Jesus lived in and our present reality. Join us as we discuss navigating anxiety, distractions, and the overwhelming influx of information in today's digital age. 

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Transcript

MICHAEL CUSICK: 0:00

Alan Fadling, my, my friend over the last couple of years, I want to thank you for suddenly and spontaneously coming on the restoring soul podcast.

Alan Fadling: 0:09

Well, thanks for the invite, I always enjoy our visits. You are

MICHAEL CUSICK: 0:13

a prolific writer. And I know you have a book coming out in February, we're at the end of October 2023. And we're a week out from the terrorist attacks in Israel and the Israeli response in Gaza. And we have no idea where that's going to go. And what's going to happen. It's not a new conflict, obviously. But it has escalated in a way like never before. And as a therapist, I'm witnessing, and seeing in the news and on social media, that the world is even more anxious, and more wringing its hands and therefore more distracted, and numbing, and angry, then it has been over the last couple of years with the political divides. So you write a lot about slowing down, tending to the inner life, spiritual formation, and truly the core of everything you do is about being an apprentice to Jesus, being a disciple who is learning to live and follow the ways of Jesus. So whether people are Christians who I assume are the majority of our listeners, or whether they're, for some reason, not followers of Jesus, I want to just throw out a very obvious but simple idea to kind of talk around and that is, the life of Jesus was a non anxious life, the teachings of Jesus were how to live at peace, deep within ourselves, and how to live at peace with others, by loving God and others with all of our heart. And I guess I want to just take seriously the teachings of Christ for this moment that we're in. Yeah, and not getting into obvious, you know, things that are being talked about in the media and in some Christian circles, like eschatology, and is this the Armageddon? But rather, you know, what, what is happening inside of us? And what in the world says, the teaching of Jesus, the rabbi, the man who raised from the dead, the man who is the Prince of Peace? What does that have to do with this current moment?

Alan Fadling: 2:31

You know, the first thing that comes to mind is think of the world into which Jesus comes. It was not the most peaceful place. Yes, you could talk about a Pax Romana, right? You know, the peace of Rome? Well, yes, and no, it's the peace of Rome. You know, if you're a Jew living in Israel, you're not experiencing a whole lot of peace. It's a tense environment. And so Jesus comes into a world where peace is not all that easy to find. And he comes as the Prince of Peace. So any conversation about peace is not about disregarding or denying, really hard, painful realities. It's simply about acknowledging that the greatness of God's peace is bigger than present realities. So you're gonna have someone like Julian of Norwich, who lives during the black plague, who lives during the 100 years war? Talk about all shall be well, and all shall be well. And every manner of thing shall be well, is that because Julian was just, you know, pie in the sky, rose colored glasses? No, it was because she had a vision of a god that was so robust and real to her, that it was real Earth than the surrounding realities of her century.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 3:57

As you talk about the times that Jesus was born into, and then lived in some of that turbulence, I think about how Jesus was born, and how King Herod wanted to and did genocide, all the children under two, so his birth, triggered because of the ruler of the time triggered this genocide. We know about that with Moses, but we often forget that that happened at Jesus birth. And so Mary and Joseph had to go through Egypt and go home by another way, back to back to Nazareth. So as you refer to Julian of Norwich, I just finished a small biography by Amy Frey calm about Julian, just compelling and learned, learn more about Julian than I have yet. And so the first the first thing in my mind when you talked about the plague, my understanding was that she lived through a second plague as well. She lost family members and but this is just a silly little thought like, Yeah, but she didn't have social media. And the reason why the reason why that popped into my head is that ever since the war broke out in Israel last week, I have been obsessively preoccupied with the news. And I downloaded extra apps. You know, I've got the BBC and I've got AlJazeera. And, and I go to it in a way that either gives me this. Okay, now, now I know, now I've got the latest update, or where it makes me more anxious. And like, I need to be hyper vigilant. So I think that one of the things that that I'm witnessing in the midst of all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well, is that it feels easier than ever to be distracted from my inner world. Yeah. And Jesus way is an invitation into my inner world. So I guess, part of me wants to have a conversation with you. But I, I guess, friend to friend, Brother to brother. What would it mean for you on this podcast to just kind of Shepherd listeners in the world who we've got listeners in 100? And some countries? Yeah, to shepherd people who are who are wondering, you know, Lord, what's going to happen?

Alan Fadling: 6:23

Yeah. Well, the answer to what is going to happen is, we don't know what is just really uncomfortable. And as you said, a lot of us are spending a great deal of time, maybe over time trying to learn, figure out and wrap our arms around what in the world all this means. And there is something to be said for that kind of learning. But maybe alongside it, it has been helping me to remember that what we are witnessing God has witnessed many times. That doesn't minimize the reality of what we face now. But I have a father in law who fought in World War Two. And he had stories that were overwhelming. He was in the Pacific Theater. Men and women of faith lived in places like that. And it didn't again, it doesn't in any way, minimize the horror, the tragedy, the injustices, on any number of sides. But again, it's about can I practice the reality of God's caring, presence in the midst of this very circumstance? Is that still real? And I would say, for me, it's been critical to remember that that's real.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 7:46

So God is there in the bombings. And God is there in the hospitals, where they're running out of supplies, and God is there with the kidnapped Israelis. And God is there with the starving, persecuted Palestinians in Gaza. And God is in you and me and the listener, that is feeling activated in their body, and anxious and distracted and maybe not sleeping, and maybe turning to addictions, that God is present and he's accessible and he cares.

Alan Fadling: 8:23

Yeah. I just think, you know, Mother Teresa, for so many years had little sense of God's favorable presence with her. And she learned to live in communion with God through the image of Christ, thirsting on the cross. Well, that's an image of God that's a little different than maybe some of the ones you know, like a grandpa sitting on a throne up in the heavens, untouched by human reality. She identified in her own suffering and then witnessing the suffering of the dying in the streets of Calcutta. And she found a place of communion with God in the place of Christ thirsting on the cross. Sometimes we need an image of Christ crucified, Christ who suffers God who suffers God who is touched by human injustice, effected by human injustice, we need a God who is not up above and beyond and untouched by these realities, but a God in Christ who comes to live in the very crosshairs of that reality. He is not unable to empathize with us, but the opposite.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 9:32

And I'm always reminded that it's not just that he lived 2000 years ago and suffered and was tempted. But Jesus himself teaches that when we go and tend to the sick, and the dying, and the imprison, and the naked and the hungry and thirsty, and tend to their needs, that we're doing it unto him, and I would like to believe and I actually do believe that therefore, Mother Teresa called it Christ in distressing disguise that God was present in his present in our suffering. And therefore that reality of the crucified Christ is somehow manifest in the suffering of people today, in my mind, that's the only rational explanation for suffering in the goodness of God in the world. It's not just that God is on the side of suffering, but that he's in the suffering and CO suffers with us. And he is touched. And that that is true, whether the suffering are believers or unbelievers.

Alan Fadling: 10:35

That's absolutely right. So again, it's in part it's, it's our image of a God in Christ, who is, as you say, right in the middle, incarnated in flushed, living right in the places of suffering. And so I had a mentor who would sometimes say, when you see a distressing scene, somehow see in that scene that Christ crucified is there too, as a witness, he is again, not sitting on some cushy throne in, you know, a nebulous heavens, but he is the God of peace, who pays a great price for peace.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 11:17

You spent a lot of time with Dallas Willard, when he was still alive. And I remember him saying once that many of us believe in Christ, but that we don't believe Christ. And the huge distinction, right, like Sir, I can believe in His existence, I can believe in the fact that he rose from the dead, but I don't necessarily live in accordance with the things that he said, like, when any of the teachings about peace, he was the prince of peace, and he said to the, to the storm, Peace be still and he spoke in the Sermon on the Mount about the birds of the air. Talk to me, just in your own life, personally, but also pastorelli, as you've traveled all around the world, and taught the way of Jesus, to people, you're a Christian, but you've not been compelled by teaching about Christianity, you've been very intentional about teaching about the way of Jesus and inviting people to follow and live His way. Talk a little bit just passed orally about his teachings on peace, just saying more for those who need to be reminded and refreshed.

Alan Fadling: 12:37

Yeah, I was thinking he actually just this morning, have some very familiar lines for anyone who's read the gospels at all, that Jesus comes. And he says to people who are weary and burdened, come to me, come to me and learn from me, you'll find that I am gentle and humble in spirit, and you will find rest for your souls. So Jesus speaks to us in our feeling overwhelmed. Jesus meets us in the place of profound weariness, feeling, attacked by the world that surrounds us. And, as you said, it's not believing in a Jesus who lived long, long ago in a land far far away. But a Christ who has risen who is by spirit among us, that whose way is a way of peace, he's a master, and absolute genius. That's one of the things I loved Dallas, saying, You never met anybody smarter than Jesus. Would you like to talk to somebody about how to live a more peaceful life? You can't think of I can't think of anyone I would rather speak with than Christ. Jesus coming into the world. And yeah, I've had a chance to be in a lot of places. I've spent a number of weeks in northeast Nigeria where Boko Haram has been most active. And I've had the privilege of walking live alongside brothers and sisters who have faced far more loss and suffering and tragedy than I have you ever faced in my, my first world life. And the irony is, they seem to find peace, easier to come by, than I have seemed to find it. And part of it is because they've had the painful opportunity to be tried, and to be tested and to test who Jesus is, and discover that the way of Jesus actually, in the face of great opposition works quite well. And that this vision of Christ with us, has a substance that is greater than for these brothers and sisters, than the reality of Boko Haram and the threat that is always ever present in that part of the world.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 15:00

Sometimes it makes me think that the best evangelism in our world today is not about going around trying to get people saved, so that when they die, that we know they're going to heaven, I think there's an importance to that right so that people can have that peace. But it feels like right now for the world salvation is having some sense that deep inside it's okay. There's a secure place and a safe person for my soul to have a bedrock anchor, where as you started out, saying, quoting Julian of Norwich, all shall be well. And where there is a peace that passes all understanding, there's something irrational, that in the midst of Boko Haram, and that kind of suffering, that, wow, this this man who lived 33 years and was crucified, died and rose again that it actually works. And I hate to say it in that pragmatic way that you spoke, but I was like, hmm, I think I've gone so far to the other side of Jesus as a pragmatic solution, that I want to kind of come back to that and saying, Yes, this this way of living, is designed to help us flourish and thrive on planet Earth, which is much of the time and unwelcome place to be.

Alan Fadling: 16:24

Yeah, no, that's really, that's really true that I have come to believe that when Jesus said, I just want you to know, I came so that you could have an abundant sort of life. I think that he meant it. I don't think it was just about having an extra religious sort of life. I think he meant that we could experience in communion with Him, a life that was deeply joyful, profoundly peaceful, and, and and full of a sense of well being that was not measured by what's in your wallet, or your garage or your closet, that actually it was far better than any kind of outwardly measurable good life, you know, that we we talked about. And I just find that sometimes it's been in the face of hard places in my journey, places of loss that I've had, that's where I've learned that the peace of God is real, more so than when a series of events or a series of years went the way I largely preferred.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 17:27

Allen, I think of Psalm 27. And I know that you're, you're familiar with this, and maybe even where I'm gonna go with this. But right now, for all that's happening in the world, and beyond the situation in the Middle East with our political situation. And as we speak, the, you know, we just avoided shutting down the government. And now we don't have a speaker of the house and interest rates are soaring and people can't afford homes, and on and on, and on and on. The country is not in good shape, regardless of whether you're on the right, or the left. And so anxiety, fear and a sense of where do I find peace? Where do I find security? What do I do with this anxiety, there's so many secular alternatives, or spiritual alternatives to the way of Jesus. And Psalm 27. The Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is a stronghold of my life, of whom shall I be afraid, even though war breaks out against me, my heart will not be afraid. And then in that fourth verse, David says, but there's one thing that I asked, and to me this is the key for why he can be so audacious is to say, I'm not afraid, God is my light, God is my peace. God is the source to whom I go, that I want to dwell in the house of the Lord, to gaze upon his beauty, all the days of my life. And it's that sense of being grounded within to this reality of God's presence. Can you just comment on that?

Alan Fadling: 19:11

Yeah. Well, to me, that is exactly I mean, that's David, a king, a commander at war, talking about his soul, in a sense, and we're living in a world with a great deal of cultural and political turmoil and tension. And those words are for us to that. I've sometimes imagined that peace was going to not come until all of the circumstances immediately in me around me and in my world, were all resolved. And then I can relax. If that's what is required for me to have some kind of peace of soul, that's a pretty tenuous strategy. And it's unlikely I will anytime in this life Time finds such a place. But if I can find a place of peace, that is greater than the turmoil around me, armies attacking all of that, then it's almost the i at the center of the hurricane, a place of calm at the center of storm. That's, I think, who God is with us and in us, in the midst of whatever turmoil swirls around our, our own thoughts, our own life, our own families, our own neighborhoods, our own nation, our own world. There's a center of quiet one thing, I asked the Lord, this one thing is what I asked. It's a center. It's it's, it's a point around which everything else exists. And the degree to which I find that that center is a place of peace, a place of life, a place of lasting security, because the Lord is my shepherd. To that degree, I find that I can weather very challenging and painful realities, without them becoming my only reality.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 21:16

And as you're talking, I'm thinking not just about war, and politics, but my my dear friend, who he was in my wedding, and I was in his wedding, and he is suffering from ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. And there's a group of us from Ohio that pray for him. And about two years ago, and when his illness was just at the start, he talked about how his illness caught his attention. And something shifted in his relationship with God. And it was a positive shift that something began to deepen. And that he began to pray. And I was blown away. Alan, when I talked to him, for the first time after learning about his diagnosis, and he was already struggling physically, where he said, Well, how can I pray for you? And, and I was like, no, no, no, no, I want to pray for you. And I know that he prays for us, and He struggles, but I'm thinking about everything that we're talking about, across all of our human struggle, and all of our suffering and all of our anxiousness and all of our sleepless nights, whatever that might be. That this way of Jesus is really meant to bring abundance and peace, and a sense of shalom well being inside. So I want to close with a question. And I want to thank you in advance, because you agreed to do this spontaneously and didn't have a lot of time to prepare. But would you give a couple of pastoral steps for the person who's listening believer or non believer in Jesus who says, you know, I want to trust this, I actually want to maybe step into this Jesus life in a little bit different way. And I want to trust what he said. And I want that peace in the midst of the world right now.

Alan Fadling: 23:16

What do you say? Yeah. So I think one of the great concerns of Jesus when He comes is He longs for people to know his father, how good his father is. And I think what I would say to someone who's willing to try a step, who's willing to lean in, I would say, talk to Jesus about the badness that you see. Be honest about it, use every word, you need to say it the way you feel it. Talk to God about the badness that you see. And he can handle that. He can handle that there's nothing on my mind or in my heart, that I is that I'm not perfectly safe, to bring into the presence of a loving, and merciful and gracious and kind sort of God. And then having done that, asked Jesus to help you see the goodness of God in the middle of that badness. Maybe you see the goodness of God in how Jesus takes on himself something he doesn't deserve, maybe by reading the story, the gospel and seeing how sacrificially he loves how well he treats people that everybody else ignores how much he's concerned about not the politically correct sort of movement, but the person on the side of the road who nobody else will attend to. So the big idea, I think, is to ask Jesus to give a give us a vision of the goodness of God in the midst of the badness we see.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 24:57

And that is where our heart finds peace. And I so appreciate the gentle nudge that I felt with that is that it's not a technique, but it's turning our eyes, somewhere where there is reliable goodness. And yes, predictable safety, which is ultimately what Jesus did. Right? He said, He came to show us what the father is like. And in John, it says, If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. And if we have a God that looks like this, carpenter from Nazareth that laid down his life, that, that that's a God that we can entrust our lives too. And then trust, the present moment of anxiety and suffering to

Alan Fadling: 25:42

Yes, it's a beautiful image. I think that Jesus paints in the way he lives of his father. And it's an inviting one to me anyway.

MICHAEL CUSICK: 25:53

Well, Alan, thank you for being available. Thank you for shepherding my heart today during this time, and my hope is that people around the world get to hear this message.

Alan Fadling: 26:03

I pray that, that each one listening will find their way to the peace God longs to make available to them.