{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":2.24,"endTime":5.92,"body":"Doctor Dan Allender, welcome to the Restoring the Soul"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":5.92,"endTime":5.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":5.92,"endTime":9.44,"body":"podcast. Michael, it is an absolute"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":9.44,"endTime":9.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":9.44,"endTime":13.24,"body":"pleasure to be with you. I would prefer joining you in your"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":13.24,"endTime":13.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":13.24,"endTime":17.0,"body":"lovely home in Colorado, but we'll just, we'll embrace the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":17.0,"endTime":17.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":17.0,"endTime":20.48,"body":"reality of zoom, So you have just released a new book"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":44.6,"endTime":44.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":44.92,"endTime":48.72,"body":"with your co author, Dr. Steve Call, and Steve's wife"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":48.72,"endTime":48.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":48.72,"endTime":52.4,"body":"Lisa was involved and your Bride, Becky, of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":52.4,"endTime":52.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":52.4,"endTime":55.85,"body":"46 years going on 47 now. Right."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":55.85,"endTime":56.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":56.33,"endTime":60.09,"body":"Actually, this has been an issue of debate because we"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":60.09,"endTime":60.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":60.09,"endTime":63.77,"body":"kept saying for three years now they've been married 48."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":63.77,"endTime":63.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":63.77,"endTime":67.45,"body":"But now I can officially say we've been married 48 years, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":67.45,"endTime":67.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":67.69,"endTime":71.21,"body":"we're not good at math, but we're stumbling"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":71.21,"endTime":71.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":71.21,"endTime":74.73,"body":"toward 50. Well, if you were good at math, you'd be a trauma"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":74.73,"endTime":74.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":74.73,"endTime":78.01,"body":"surgeon or an astrophysicist, not a therapist."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":78.01,"endTime":78.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":78.65,"endTime":82.49,"body":"That's really true. Yeah, I always say that. I think"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":82.49,"endTime":82.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":82.49,"endTime":86.01,"body":"I'd be one of those emergency room trauma surgeons or something like that. Just"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":86.01,"endTime":86.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":86.01,"endTime":89.41,"body":"somewhere where I can keep getting shots of adrenaline. Oh, again,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":89.41,"endTime":89.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":89.65,"endTime":93.37,"body":"I know I want to talk about the book, but I would say if you've"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":93.37,"endTime":93.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":93.37,"endTime":97.17,"body":"not seen the Pit, which is about an ER"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":97.17,"endTime":97.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":97.17,"endTime":100.93,"body":"room, it is one of the best shows I've seen"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":100.93,"endTime":101.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":101.41,"endTime":105.17,"body":"to give a sense not only of what those warriors do,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":105.17,"endTime":105.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":105.33,"endTime":109.05,"body":"but frankly, it's a good picture of the work that you and I do and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":109.05,"endTime":109.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":109.05,"endTime":112.76,"body":"others who are engaging the human heart as well. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":112.76,"endTime":112.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":112.76,"endTime":115.32,"body":"there's so many. You know, I used to, when I was a student of yours"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":115.32,"endTime":115.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":115.32,"endTime":119.16,"body":"back 92 through 97, I used to work in the emergency"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":119.16,"endTime":119.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":119.16,"endTime":122.8,"body":"rooms for mental health nearby, and I would do all the assessments. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":122.8,"endTime":122.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":122.8,"endTime":126.36,"body":"I've often thought about, especially with the intensive counseling we do, the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":126.36,"endTime":126.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":126.36,"endTime":130.16,"body":"analogy of triage and then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":130.16,"endTime":130.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":130.16,"endTime":133.0,"body":"deep care in the emergency room and then kind of getting you to the next"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":133.0,"endTime":133.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":133.0,"endTime":136.0,"body":"step. But why don't we not talk about the book? Let's just talk about movies"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":136.0,"endTime":136.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":136.0,"endTime":139.7,"body":"and pop culture the whole time. Look, it is fun"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":139.7,"endTime":139.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":139.7,"endTime":143.5,"body":"to be with you. I'll go wherever you wish. Yeah, well, back"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":143.5,"endTime":143.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":143.5,"endTime":146.78,"body":"in the Mars Hill days, we'll just talk about movies and music and things like"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":146.78,"endTime":146.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":146.78,"endTime":150.18,"body":"that. Well, here's where I want to start. The book is called the Deeply"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":150.18,"endTime":150.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":150.18,"endTime":153.78,"body":"Rooted marriage. And here's the interesting thing. You've written"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":153.78,"endTime":153.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":153.94,"endTime":157.62,"body":"many other books on marriage. You were my marriage and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":157.62,"endTime":157.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":157.62,"endTime":161.3,"body":"family therapy professor 34 years ago"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":161.3,"endTime":161.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":161.62,"endTime":164.82,"body":"this summer. And my question is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":164.82,"endTime":165.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":165.55,"endTime":169.27,"body":"what was inside of you that inspired you to write another"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":169.27,"endTime":169.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":169.27,"endTime":172.91,"body":"book on marriage? Well, I think there's no topic"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":172.91,"endTime":172.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":172.91,"endTime":176.27,"body":"that I find more compelling, particularly because"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":176.27,"endTime":176.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":176.59,"endTime":179.95,"body":"my work, your work, has to do with trauma, has to do with"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":179.95,"endTime":179.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":179.95,"endTime":183.63,"body":"addiction, has to do with some sense of the war against"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":183.63,"endTime":183.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":183.63,"endTime":187.07,"body":"the human heart. And I don't think there's any relationship"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":187.07,"endTime":187.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":187.15,"endTime":190.51,"body":"that shows more this interplay of heaven and hell."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":190.51,"endTime":190.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":190.67,"endTime":194.13,"body":"Like I would say, I've never had a taste of. Of heaven"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":194.13,"endTime":194.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":194.29,"endTime":198.01,"body":"more than I have known in the context of my relationship"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":198.01,"endTime":198.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":198.01,"endTime":201.49,"body":"with Becky. And I would say, and she would"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":201.49,"endTime":201.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":201.49,"endTime":203.97,"body":"say, probably no taste of what"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":203.97,"endTime":203.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":203.97,"endTime":207.77,"body":"we'll never taste, and that"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":207.77,"endTime":207.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":207.77,"endTime":211.33,"body":"is hell. So marriage"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":211.33,"endTime":211.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":211.33,"endTime":214.93,"body":"is a relationship of extremity that's really"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":214.93,"endTime":214.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":214.93,"endTime":218.61,"body":"meant to reveal something about the nature of your heart"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":218.61,"endTime":218.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":218.93,"endTime":222.52,"body":"and the heart of your spouse, but for the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":222.52,"endTime":222.52,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":222.52,"endTime":226.2,"body":"purpose of transformation. So I think that's part of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":226.2,"endTime":226.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":226.2,"endTime":229.52,"body":"context. But I have so much fun, so much"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":229.52,"endTime":230.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":230.24,"endTime":233.76,"body":"delight in thinking about my wife."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":233.76,"endTime":234.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":234.4,"endTime":237.839,"body":"So in one sense, like, if my option is to write about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":237.839,"endTime":237.839,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":237.839,"endTime":241.4,"body":"abuse and trauma or about my wife, then why not"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":241.4,"endTime":241.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":241.4,"endTime":245.08,"body":"combine the two? Because I think in so many ways, what this"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":245.08,"endTime":245.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":245.08,"endTime":248.64,"body":"book is attempting to do is to say, look, you bring"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":248.64,"endTime":249.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":249.44,"endTime":253.28,"body":"the heartache and harm of what you have known as"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":253.28,"endTime":253.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":253.76,"endTime":257.2,"body":"the reality of small T and capital T trauma"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":257.2,"endTime":257.6,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":257.6,"endTime":261.28,"body":"into your marriage, and it's going to show itself in every form"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":261.28,"endTime":261.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":261.28,"endTime":265.08,"body":"of conflict you have with your spouse. So if we can deal"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":265.08,"endTime":265.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":265.08,"endTime":268.72,"body":"with the deep roots, well, so often"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":268.72,"endTime":268.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":268.72,"endTime":272.56,"body":"the fruit on the tree will change because of the nature of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":272.56,"endTime":272.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":272.56,"endTime":276.29,"body":"the work you do below the surface. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":276.29,"endTime":276.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":276.29,"endTime":279.93,"body":"things that your whole career in ministry has really been about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":279.93,"endTime":279.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":279.93,"endTime":283.53,"body":"is helping people to see the deep roots and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":283.53,"endTime":283.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":283.53,"endTime":287.13,"body":"training counselors to kindly expose those"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":287.13,"endTime":287.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":287.13,"endTime":290.65,"body":"deep roots. And I appreciate it in the book."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":290.65,"endTime":291.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":291.05,"endTime":294.61,"body":"All of your writing has had a fair amount of vulnerability. And over the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":294.61,"endTime":294.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":294.61,"endTime":298.37,"body":"decades, I've seen you go from talking about your own abuse"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":298.37,"endTime":298.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":298.37,"endTime":302.17,"body":"in very vague terms. And I remember one point you saying, you know,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":302.17,"endTime":302.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":302.17,"endTime":305.69,"body":"I didn't really experience much, but here's this one thing. And then over the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":305.69,"endTime":305.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":305.69,"endTime":309.41,"body":"decades, God has revealed to you through community, in other ways,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":309.41,"endTime":310.45,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":310.45,"endTime":314.09,"body":"profound abuse right within your own family. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":314.09,"endTime":314.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":314.09,"endTime":317.89,"body":"so you and Becky and Steve and Lisa and I,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":317.89,"endTime":317.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":317.89,"endTime":321.05,"body":"and I don't know them, so I kind of emphasize the stories that you shared"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":321.05,"endTime":321.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":321.05,"endTime":324.57,"body":"and Becky shared. But there are some very, very vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":324.57,"endTime":324.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":324.57,"endTime":327.8,"body":"moments. No other way to say it than of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":327.8,"endTime":327.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":327.8,"endTime":330.76,"body":"ugliness and cruelty to one another."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":330.76,"endTime":331.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":331.32,"endTime":335.12,"body":"And I write vulnerably about my own story, but I read yours, and I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":335.12,"endTime":335.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":335.12,"endTime":338.8,"body":"was like, oh, my gosh, I don't know if I'd write that. So"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":338.8,"endTime":338.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":338.8,"endTime":340.68,"body":"thank you. A. Because"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":340.68,"endTime":342.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":342.36,"endTime":346.16,"body":"there's an immediate sense of trust, as you do, that it"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":346.16,"endTime":346.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":346.16,"endTime":349.76,"body":"wasn't exhibitionistic, but it was so"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":349.76,"endTime":349.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":349.76,"endTime":353.16,"body":"honest. And then the very next paragraph is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":353.16,"endTime":353.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":353.97,"endTime":357.33,"body":"I feel ashamed even as I write those words or"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":357.33,"endTime":357.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":357.89,"endTime":361.57,"body":"remind myself of that story. And here's how that then"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":361.57,"endTime":361.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":361.65,"endTime":365.45,"body":"launched me into growing and looking at the woundedness and the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":365.45,"endTime":365.45,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":365.45,"endTime":369.05,"body":"trauma that's there. So what was that like to go through that"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":369.05,"endTime":369.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":369.05,"endTime":372.21,"body":"process of being so vulnerable? Well,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":372.21,"endTime":372.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":372.93,"endTime":376.45,"body":"let me just say, frankly, I want"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":376.45,"endTime":376.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":376.69,"endTime":380.23,"body":"one day to be so mature that"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":380.23,"endTime":380.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":380.55,"endTime":384.07,"body":"these particular struggles don't show up. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":384.07,"endTime":384.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":384.07,"endTime":387.83,"body":"reminded of that passage in 1 John 3, when you see"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":387.83,"endTime":387.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":387.83,"endTime":391.27,"body":"him, then you will be as he is, so there will be a day."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":391.27,"endTime":391.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":391.59,"endTime":395.309,"body":"But until then, I've been very stuck on the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":395.309,"endTime":395.309,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":395.309,"endTime":399.03,"body":"reality that the labor of engaging brokenness"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":399.03,"endTime":399.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":399.03,"endTime":402.71,"body":"in all human relationships, you've got to deal with what Jesus"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":402.71,"endTime":402.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":402.71,"endTime":406.51,"body":"talks about as lust and anger and lust, as you"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":406.51,"endTime":406.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":406.51,"endTime":410.23,"body":"have written and talked about, it's not just sexual, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":410.23,"endTime":410.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":410.23,"endTime":413.67,"body":"it bears this kind of consumption,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":413.67,"endTime":413.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":413.83,"endTime":417.67,"body":"an eating, a devouring, an attempt to fill"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":417.67,"endTime":417.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":417.67,"endTime":420.63,"body":"one's core emptiness. And then when it's not"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":420.63,"endTime":421.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":421.99,"endTime":425.59,"body":"satisfied, I'm going to make somebody pay. Maybe me,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":425.59,"endTime":425.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":425.91,"endTime":429.67,"body":"but I'm going to make the people closest to me pay."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":429.67,"endTime":429.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":429.99,"endTime":433.65,"body":"So when Jesus talks about lust and anger"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":433.65,"endTime":433.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":433.65,"endTime":437.41,"body":"as adultery and murder, it's kind of like, wait a"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":437.41,"endTime":437.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":437.41,"endTime":441.01,"body":"minute, do you guys believe the Bible? If so,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":441.01,"endTime":441.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":441.25,"endTime":445.09,"body":"why are we shocked that we struggle"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":445.09,"endTime":445.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":445.09,"endTime":448.61,"body":"with adultery and murder, consumption and exploitation,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":448.61,"endTime":448.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":448.69,"endTime":451.09,"body":"but also violence and degradation?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":451.09,"endTime":452.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":452.37,"endTime":456.13,"body":"And if that's true in some aesthetic,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":456.13,"endTime":456.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":456.69,"endTime":460.51,"body":"abstract form, is really going"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":460.51,"endTime":460.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":460.51,"endTime":463.67,"body":"to be true in the core relationship."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":463.67,"endTime":464.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":464.15,"endTime":467.99,"body":"So at one level, and I'll just put"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":467.99,"endTime":467.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":467.99,"endTime":471.23,"body":"it this bluntly, if I had not told the truth, I would have paid a"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":471.23,"endTime":471.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":471.23,"endTime":474.63,"body":"price with my wife. That would have been unfortunate."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":474.63,"endTime":474.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":474.87,"endTime":478.67,"body":"She would have just said, you're just full of bullshit. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":478.67,"endTime":478.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":478.67,"endTime":482.51,"body":"she would have said it kindly and wisely and playfully. But I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":482.51,"endTime":482.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":482.51,"endTime":486.35,"body":"think there were moments where she upped the ante"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":486.35,"endTime":486.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":486.35,"endTime":489.81,"body":"by saying, no, you need to talk about how I failed you."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":489.81,"endTime":490.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":490.93,"endTime":494.53,"body":"And I'm like, but you really don't fail the way I do."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":494.53,"endTime":494.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":494.61,"endTime":498.25,"body":"It's like we both are adulterers and murderers. So I think,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":498.25,"endTime":498.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":498.25,"endTime":501.81,"body":"in part, having a spouse who joined you."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":501.81,"endTime":502.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":502.21,"endTime":505.97,"body":"And again, I don't want to say that other people"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":505.97,"endTime":505.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":505.97,"endTime":509.61,"body":"don't, but who actually believe the Bible when it says you're a"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":509.61,"endTime":509.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":509.61,"endTime":513.41,"body":"sinner. And therefore the whole notion of extremity"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":513.41,"endTime":513.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":513.41,"endTime":517.159,"body":"being Revealed, you can't transform, be"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":517.159,"endTime":517.159,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":517.159,"endTime":520.639,"body":"transformed by what you refuse to name or feel"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":520.639,"endTime":520.879,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":520.879,"endTime":524.159,"body":"with regard to the reality of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":524.159,"endTime":524.639,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":524.639,"endTime":528.239,"body":"the presence of your harm, but also the presence of the goodness of God."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":528.239,"endTime":528.239,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":528.239,"endTime":531.919,"body":"And I don't want to go too far because I get to interview"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":531.919,"endTime":531.999,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":531.999,"endTime":535.799,"body":"you sometime this coming fall. But in your new book"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":535.799,"endTime":535.799,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":535.799,"endTime":539.599,"body":"on sacred attachment, the material about mysticism,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":539.599,"endTime":540.079,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":540.079,"endTime":543.799,"body":"of that sensitivity to the spirit's engagement. If"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":543.799,"endTime":543.799,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":543.799,"endTime":547.19,"body":"you're sensitive to. Sensitive to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":547.19,"endTime":547.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":547.43,"endTime":551.23,"body":"the unseen world, then you're going to be more sensitive to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":551.23,"endTime":551.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":551.23,"endTime":554.75,"body":"the seen world and vice versa. The more you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":554.75,"endTime":554.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":554.75,"endTime":558.15,"body":"aware of the dynamics happening between you and another person,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":558.15,"endTime":558.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":558.79,"endTime":562.55,"body":"it allows you to be more aware of the dynamics. So in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":562.55,"endTime":562.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":562.55,"endTime":566.07,"body":"part, it's attunement sensitivity. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":566.07,"endTime":566.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":566.47,"endTime":570.15,"body":"thank God I have a wife who loves"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":570.15,"endTime":570.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":570.15,"endTime":573.11,"body":"me desperately, deeply, but also calls me"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":573.11,"endTime":573.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":573.78,"endTime":577.06,"body":"to be the man that I write that I wish to be."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":577.06,"endTime":578.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":578.18,"endTime":581.86,"body":"As is often the case, as I've sat under"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":581.86,"endTime":581.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":581.86,"endTime":585.14,"body":"your teaching or had conversations with you, there's 10 different questions I want to ask"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":585.14,"endTime":585.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":585.14,"endTime":588.58,"body":"just based on what you said. So the first one, and this is. So there's."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":588.58,"endTime":589.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":589.06,"endTime":592.1,"body":"We could just bypass this. But you said you can't experience"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":592.1,"endTime":592.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":592.18,"endTime":595.9,"body":"transformation with something you haven't named. Talk"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":595.9,"endTime":595.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":595.9,"endTime":599.74,"body":"more about that and give me an example, either from your marriage with"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":599.74,"endTime":599.74,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":599.74,"endTime":603.49,"body":"you and Becky or in some of your clinical work. Well,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":603.49,"endTime":603.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":603.81,"endTime":607.41,"body":"I begin with the word confession, but we think of confession"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":607.41,"endTime":607.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":607.41,"endTime":611.21,"body":"as sort of like, oh, Jesus, forgive me. It's like, no,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":611.21,"endTime":611.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":611.21,"endTime":614.61,"body":"no, no. Confession. Homologa is the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":614.61,"endTime":615.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":615.01,"endTime":618.45,"body":"Greek word that just says the same thing. Say the same thing."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":618.45,"endTime":619.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":619.17,"endTime":622.89,"body":"So you know when Becky says something like, you're being cruel. I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":622.89,"endTime":622.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":622.89,"endTime":626.29,"body":"need to confess. And that means to go,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":626.29,"endTime":626.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":626.61,"endTime":630.38,"body":"oh, those words were cruel. So"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":630.38,"endTime":630.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":630.62,"endTime":634.46,"body":"coming to confess is naming. That's the core word"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":634.46,"endTime":634.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":634.7,"endTime":637.1,"body":"name. What's true. We were doing"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":637.1,"endTime":639.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":639.18,"endTime":642.86,"body":"a talk on marriage in a church in Dallas not long ago, and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":642.86,"endTime":643.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":643.18,"endTime":646.98,"body":"at one point, Becky's talking about my brokenness but my beauty. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":646.98,"endTime":646.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":646.98,"endTime":650.7,"body":"she said, I've watched this man give thousands"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":650.7,"endTime":650.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":650.7,"endTime":654.42,"body":"of dollars away to people he knows and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":654.42,"endTime":654.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":654.42,"endTime":658.14,"body":"some people he doesn't know yet. This was over Easter"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":658.14,"endTime":658.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":658.3,"endTime":661.54,"body":"yet when one of his grandchildren asked for some"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":661.54,"endTime":661.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":661.54,"endTime":665.38,"body":"kombucha, it was like they"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":665.38,"endTime":665.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":665.38,"endTime":669.02,"body":"were asking for his last dollar. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":669.02,"endTime":669.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":669.98,"endTime":673.58,"body":"I'm sitting with her in front of a group of a couple hundred people"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":673.58,"endTime":673.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":673.58,"endTime":677.42,"body":"going, oh, yeah, I did do that."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":677.42,"endTime":677.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":677.5,"endTime":681.02,"body":"And don't you mess with my kombucha. Like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":681.02,"endTime":681.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":681.02,"endTime":684.78,"body":"take my money. Just don't mess with my kombucha. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":684.78,"endTime":685.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":685.06,"endTime":688.86,"body":"oh, my God, that's really weird. I mean, she's naming that we hadn't"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":688.86,"endTime":688.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":688.86,"endTime":692.46,"body":"planned for her to say it, but I'm like, I'm actually somewhat"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":692.46,"endTime":692.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":692.46,"endTime":695.78,"body":"troubled by that. How can I give away, like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":695.78,"endTime":696.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":696.1,"endTime":699.94,"body":"money means something, but not that much. But my stash"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":699.94,"endTime":700.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":700.42,"endTime":703.94,"body":"of kombucha. Don't touch my M\u0026Ms."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":703.94,"endTime":704.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":704.1,"endTime":707.82,"body":"Don't touch my M and M. Exactly. You can have the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":707.82,"endTime":707.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":707.82,"endTime":711.3,"body":"brown ones, but nothing else. So,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":711.3,"endTime":711.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":711.3,"endTime":713.38,"body":"yeah, this is where you go."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":713.38,"endTime":715.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":715.51,"endTime":718.79,"body":"We ponder with others their life, their"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":718.79,"endTime":718.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":718.95,"endTime":722.75,"body":"movement, particularly in their marriages. But there are just"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":722.75,"endTime":722.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":722.75,"endTime":726.39,"body":"so many things that should shock you about yourself"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":726.39,"endTime":726.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":726.71,"endTime":730.51,"body":"which don't have a quick resolve, but at least have"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":730.51,"endTime":730.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":730.51,"endTime":734.07,"body":"a framework to be able to go. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":734.07,"endTime":734.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":734.07,"endTime":737.59,"body":"Becky's essentially saying, I need you to ponder"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":737.59,"endTime":737.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":737.59,"endTime":741.23,"body":"where you're cheap. I'm grateful"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":741.23,"endTime":741.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":741.23,"endTime":744.71,"body":"for where you're a generous man, but you can be really"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":744.71,"endTime":744.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":744.87,"endTime":748.45,"body":"cheap, and it's not lovely. So that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":748.45,"endTime":748.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":748.93,"endTime":752.73,"body":"where the process of naming often comes into realms"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":752.73,"endTime":752.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":752.73,"endTime":756.29,"body":"that we really. I don't have an answer for that"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":756.29,"endTime":756.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":756.29,"endTime":758.93,"body":"other than, like, that's weird."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":758.93,"endTime":760.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":760.13,"endTime":763.97,"body":"Yeah. And so the barrier to that so often of being able to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":763.97,"endTime":763.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":763.97,"endTime":767.49,"body":"name it or be able to receive it when someone else names it is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":767.49,"endTime":767.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":767.49,"endTime":771.21,"body":"shame. And, you know, I don't think I've ever read a book of yours, over"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":771.21,"endTime":771.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":771.21,"endTime":774.85,"body":"20 books, that doesn't deal with the topic of shame substantively,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":774.85,"endTime":774.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":774.85,"endTime":778.56,"body":"and as should be the case. But. So how does shame then"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":778.56,"endTime":778.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":778.64,"endTime":782.48,"body":"play a role in that inability to have others name"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":782.48,"endTime":782.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":782.48,"endTime":785.96,"body":"things for us? Yeah. Whenever we talk about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":785.96,"endTime":785.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":785.96,"endTime":789.8,"body":"shame, I always like to begin with contempt, because that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":789.8,"endTime":789.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":789.8,"endTime":793.2,"body":"where the work of the Gottmans and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":793.2,"endTime":793.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":793.44,"endTime":797.0,"body":"their brilliant work, it comes to the reality"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":797.0,"endTime":797.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":797.0,"endTime":800.4,"body":"that the number one killer of marriage"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":800.4,"endTime":800.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":800.64,"endTime":804.32,"body":"is contempt. And that judgment against the other"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":804.32,"endTime":804.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":804.32,"endTime":808.1,"body":"of, you're stupid, or, how could you do that? Why do you"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":808.1,"endTime":808.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":808.1,"endTime":811.86,"body":"do that? And it isn't just word content, but it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":811.86,"endTime":811.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":811.86,"endTime":815.46,"body":"also tonality. It's the raised eyebrow. It's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":815.46,"endTime":815.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":815.46,"endTime":819.1,"body":"my adolescent grandsons when I say, hey,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":819.1,"endTime":819.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":819.34,"endTime":823.059,"body":"you want to spend the afternoon with your grandfather? Like, eye"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":823.059,"endTime":823.059,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":823.059,"endTime":826.86,"body":"roll. Like, do I have to? And the answer is, yeah, you want to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":826.86,"endTime":826.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":826.86,"endTime":830.42,"body":"go to college? You want any"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":830.42,"endTime":830.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":830.42,"endTime":834.22,"body":"inheritance whatsoever? Yeah, you need to. So"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":834.22,"endTime":834.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":834.22,"endTime":837.9,"body":"we know the presence of contempt, but contempt is always our"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":837.9,"endTime":838.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":838.29,"endTime":841.85,"body":"effort to resolve shame without the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":841.85,"endTime":841.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":841.85,"endTime":845.17,"body":"vulnerability of engaging why we feel so exposed."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":845.17,"endTime":845.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":845.81,"endTime":849.65,"body":"So shame in that sense is exposure"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":849.65,"endTime":849.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":849.65,"endTime":853.09,"body":"that brings something of the expected"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":853.09,"endTime":853.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":853.49,"endTime":857.05,"body":"judgment of our own or others, or simultaneously"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":857.05,"endTime":857.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":857.05,"endTime":860.77,"body":"both. And when we begin to go, look, in every marriage, there"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":860.77,"endTime":860.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":860.77,"endTime":863.97,"body":"is shame. When Becky basically goes,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":863.97,"endTime":865.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":865.41,"endTime":869.01,"body":"do you want to make love? And I'm like, I should"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":869.01,"endTime":869.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":869.01,"endTime":869.73,"body":"say yes."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":869.73,"endTime":872.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":872.77,"endTime":875.09,"body":"No, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":875.09,"endTime":876.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":876.21,"endTime":879.17,"body":"okay. And like, oh, my gosh,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":879.17,"endTime":879.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":879.73,"endTime":882.69,"body":"I'm feeling so ashamed because I'm a man."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":882.69,"endTime":883.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":883.65,"endTime":887.37,"body":"And the offer Ought to be the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":887.37,"endTime":887.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":887.37,"endTime":891.17,"body":"accolade of life. And it's like there's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":891.17,"endTime":891.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":891.17,"endTime":894.91,"body":"just sometimes. No, I'm 73. No"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":894.91,"endTime":896.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":896.83,"endTime":900.47,"body":"shame sexually shame financially. We"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":900.47,"endTime":900.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":900.47,"endTime":904.27,"body":"were at a lovely home on the island we live"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":904.27,"endTime":904.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":904.27,"endTime":908.11,"body":"in, and my wife said, wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":908.11,"endTime":908.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":908.11,"endTime":911.79,"body":"it be wonderful if we were living near the water?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":911.79,"endTime":912.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":912.59,"endTime":916.23,"body":"How do I feel? Oh, okay. So I should have"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":916.23,"endTime":916.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":916.23,"endTime":919.95,"body":"bought Amazon in 94. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":919.95,"endTime":920.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":920.59,"endTime":924.11,"body":"And I made a really bad decision. Do you want to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":924.11,"endTime":924.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":924.11,"endTime":927.77,"body":"underline that? And she's not saying that it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":927.77,"endTime":928.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":928.33,"endTime":931.93,"body":"3 trillion miles from her mind, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":931.93,"endTime":931.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":931.93,"endTime":935.77,"body":"I take it in as you have not"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":935.77,"endTime":935.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":935.77,"endTime":939.25,"body":"provided. And yeah, I did fail in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":939.25,"endTime":939.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":939.25,"endTime":942.89,"body":"94. I made the choice to put my, at that point,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":942.89,"endTime":942.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":942.89,"endTime":946.25,"body":"huge amount of money, $10,000, into another investment."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":946.25,"endTime":947.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":947.05,"endTime":950.61,"body":"Do you know what $10,000 in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":950.61,"endTime":950.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":950.61,"endTime":954.3,"body":"1994 would mean today in the year of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":954.3,"endTime":954.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":954.3,"endTime":956.66,"body":"our Lord 2025?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":956.66,"endTime":958.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":958.02,"endTime":960.5,"body":"Hopefully you didn't invest it in Radio Shack."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":960.5,"endTime":962.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":962.42,"endTime":965.94,"body":"Or Petco. Yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":965.94,"endTime":965.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":965.94,"endTime":969.38,"body":"hopefully that's doing well for you. So all of what we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":969.38,"endTime":969.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":969.94,"endTime":973.1,"body":"is really how I would sum up the book. And I took the sentence right"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":973.1,"endTime":973.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":973.1,"endTime":976.74,"body":"out of the book. And you said that dealing with the present issues in marriage"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":976.74,"endTime":976.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":976.9,"endTime":980.53,"body":"must mean dealing with the past. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":980.53,"endTime":980.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":980.53,"endTime":983.97,"body":"say a couple of big ideas about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":983.97,"endTime":984.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":984.05,"endTime":987.85,"body":"that, because there's a lot of approaches about marriage,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":987.85,"endTime":987.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":987.85,"endTime":991.57,"body":"and they're not ineffective always, but they don't bring about"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":991.57,"endTime":991.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":991.57,"endTime":995.25,"body":"the deeply rooted marriage. Why must we deal with the past?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":995.25,"endTime":996.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":996.05,"endTime":999.85,"body":"Well, every conflict, at least I want to claim every"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":999.85,"endTime":999.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":999.85,"endTime":1003.25,"body":"conflict that goes less well than you'd wish"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1003.25,"endTime":1003.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1003.81,"endTime":1007.65,"body":"has a history. It has dirt that indeed"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1007.65,"endTime":1007.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1007.65,"endTime":1011.45,"body":"the roots are in. And to the degree, if you think of it as the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1011.45,"endTime":1011.45,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1011.45,"endTime":1015.25,"body":"obvious metaphor of cut the weed off at the top."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1015.25,"endTime":1016.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1016.77,"endTime":1020.41,"body":"As a gardener, you know only too well the roots are going to get"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1020.41,"endTime":1020.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1020.41,"endTime":1024.13,"body":"stronger. And that's what most couples fail to do, is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1024.13,"endTime":1024.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1024.13,"endTime":1027.69,"body":"to ask the question, what else might be going"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1027.69,"endTime":1027.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1027.69,"endTime":1030.85,"body":"on? Again, Gottmans have indicated by their research"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1030.85,"endTime":1031.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1031.17,"endTime":1034.85,"body":"70% of what we have conflict over"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1034.85,"endTime":1034.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1034.85,"endTime":1038.699,"body":"has no right or wrong answer. So you have to then"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1038.699,"endTime":1038.699,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1038.699,"endTime":1041.819,"body":"say, why are we having a conflict over a dish rag"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1041.819,"endTime":1042.779,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1042.779,"endTime":1046.419,"body":"that she asks, why are you afraid of it? Because"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1046.419,"endTime":1046.419,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1046.419,"endTime":1049.259,"body":"you never wring it out. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1049.259,"endTime":1049.979,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1049.979,"endTime":1053.739,"body":"what? You want to fight? And here's part of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1053.739,"endTime":1053.739,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1053.739,"endTime":1057.579,"body":"the issue. I grew up with a borderline"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1057.579,"endTime":1057.979,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1057.979,"endTime":1061.379,"body":"personality disordered mother, and my way of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1061.379,"endTime":1061.379,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1061.379,"endTime":1065.219,"body":"engaging my mom required incredible sensitivity."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1065.219,"endTime":1065.219,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1065.219,"endTime":1068.51,"body":"In part, that's why I'm a good therapist. On the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1068.51,"endTime":1068.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1068.99,"endTime":1071.95,"body":"the issue of her neediness,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1071.95,"endTime":1073.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1073.15,"endTime":1075.95,"body":"her craziness, the ups and downs,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1075.95,"endTime":1076.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1076.75,"endTime":1080.27,"body":"the cruelty at one level, the desperation on the other,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1080.27,"endTime":1082.19,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1082.19,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"the keenest way I could keep her, from me,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1085.55,"endTime":1085.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1085.71,"endTime":1089.47,"body":"was by creating conflict. And so I learned and she"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1089.47,"endTime":1089.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1089.47,"endTime":1092.75,"body":"learned to scream at one another. Long,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1092.75,"endTime":1094.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1094.11,"endTime":1097.78,"body":"violent, verbal interactions. And the crazier"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1097.78,"endTime":1098.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1098.09,"endTime":1101.89,"body":"I was, the more trouble I got into, the more she would leave me"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1101.89,"endTime":1101.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1101.89,"endTime":1105.57,"body":"alone for, like, a day. And, you know, if I stole a car and got"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1105.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1109.41,"body":"caught, she wouldn't talk to me for a week. That's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1109.41,"endTime":1109.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1109.41,"endTime":1113.13,"body":"like being sent to the Bahamas. That was a good"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1113.13,"endTime":1113.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1113.13,"endTime":1116.25,"body":"thing for you in light of craziness? Oh, it was."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1116.25,"endTime":1116.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1116.65,"endTime":1120.41,"body":"And so you can say as a juvenile, a delinquent,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1120.41,"endTime":1120.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1120.41,"endTime":1123.93,"body":"you were a bad kid. And the answer is yes. But there's a context."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1123.93,"endTime":1124.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1124.17,"endTime":1128.02,"body":"I wasn't just a bad kid. I was a kid who"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1128.02,"endTime":1128.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1128.02,"endTime":1131.86,"body":"was trying to survive a crazy world. And I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1131.86,"endTime":1132.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1132.02,"endTime":1135.78,"body":"found a way by being troubled and troubling,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1135.78,"endTime":1136.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1136.34,"endTime":1140.1,"body":"it kept my mother from consuming me. Now,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1140.1,"endTime":1140.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1140.42,"endTime":1144.14,"body":"just the opposite. Becky grew up in a home where there was incredible"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1144.14,"endTime":1144.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1144.14,"endTime":1147.9,"body":"cruelty. And in that, she learned to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1147.9,"endTime":1147.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1147.9,"endTime":1151.54,"body":"hide. She learned to literally play in closets,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1151.54,"endTime":1151.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1151.7,"endTime":1155.53,"body":"keep her mouth shut. Well, I learned to be highly verbal. She"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1155.53,"endTime":1155.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1155.53,"endTime":1159.29,"body":"shut her mouth. We were a lovely couple in the beginning of our marriage."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1159.29,"endTime":1160.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1160.09,"endTime":1163.89,"body":"She learned to be radically independent and need"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1163.89,"endTime":1163.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1163.89,"endTime":1167.45,"body":"no one. And I hated anyone who"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1167.45,"endTime":1167.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1167.61,"endTime":1171.41,"body":"depended upon me. So we were a lovely couple until"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1171.41,"endTime":1171.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1171.41,"endTime":1175.21,"body":"we began to grow. And in that growth,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1175.21,"endTime":1175.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1175.85,"endTime":1179.34,"body":"it exposed the structure that we both"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1179.34,"endTime":1179.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1179.34,"endTime":1182.42,"body":"utilize to survive, became what"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1182.42,"endTime":1182.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1182.42,"endTime":1186.26,"body":"attracted us to one another in part, but also is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1186.26,"endTime":1186.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1186.26,"endTime":1189.98,"body":"what offended and drove us apart. So oftentimes,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1189.98,"endTime":1190.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1190.78,"endTime":1194.3,"body":"the war that's within you is what"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1194.3,"endTime":1194.539,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1194.539,"endTime":1198.38,"body":"drew the other to you, yet it also repels. So"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1198.38,"endTime":1198.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1198.38,"endTime":1201.82,"body":"when we begin to deal with that root,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1201.82,"endTime":1202.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1202.7,"endTime":1206.22,"body":"we have a chance to actually change the nature of the fruit."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1206.22,"endTime":1206.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1206.58,"endTime":1210.26,"body":"And that's the deep conviction. Just knowing the past"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1210.26,"endTime":1210.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1210.82,"endTime":1214.42,"body":"does not immediately make a radical difference,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1214.42,"endTime":1214.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1214.58,"endTime":1218.22,"body":"but it gives you understanding, but also gives you"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1218.22,"endTime":1218.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1218.22,"endTime":1221.22,"body":"compassion and, I think, a deepened sense of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1221.22,"endTime":1221.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1221.22,"endTime":1224.98,"body":"curiosity with regard to the other. You"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1224.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1224.98,"endTime":1228.54,"body":"had a great line in the book regarding this idea that the war"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1228.54,"endTime":1228.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1228.54,"endTime":1232.14,"body":"within drives us to a partner. And you said every marriage is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1232.14,"endTime":1232.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1232.14,"endTime":1235.7,"body":"built on an unconscious attempt to find redemption."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1235.7,"endTime":1236.6,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1236.6,"endTime":1240.24,"body":"And so we would all probably agree to. Yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1240.24,"endTime":1240.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1240.24,"endTime":1243.96,"body":"issues from the past affect me, and opposites attract or those kind of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1243.96,"endTime":1243.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1243.96,"endTime":1247.72,"body":"ideas. But, like, really, I'm looking for redemption in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1247.72,"endTime":1247.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1247.72,"endTime":1251.48,"body":"my spouse in an unconscious way of the needs"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1251.48,"endTime":1251.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1251.48,"endTime":1254.36,"body":"that were not met or the trauma that was there."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1254.36,"endTime":1255.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1255.24,"endTime":1259.0,"body":"Well, again, I believe God has made you with this"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1259.0,"endTime":1259.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1259.72,"endTime":1262.6,"body":"ravenous hunger for delight"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1262.6,"endTime":1263.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1263.4,"endTime":1267.07,"body":"and honor. That sense of somebody knows"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1267.07,"endTime":1267.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1267.07,"endTime":1270.87,"body":"you and just sees how glorious"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1270.87,"endTime":1270.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1270.87,"endTime":1274.47,"body":"you are, and in that, honors the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1274.47,"endTime":1274.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1274.47,"endTime":1277.87,"body":"reality of the cost that it has taken"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1277.87,"endTime":1278.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1278.35,"endTime":1281.63,"body":"for you to be who you are. And so, in that,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1281.63,"endTime":1281.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1281.95,"endTime":1285.39,"body":"I don't. I mean, Becky laughed at my"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1285.39,"endTime":1285.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1285.71,"endTime":1288.83,"body":"stories, but she also"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1288.83,"endTime":1290.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1290.2,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"didn't seem to need much from me. Now, did I have the wisdom as a"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1294.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1297.72,"body":"24 year old man to go, you know, your borderline mother"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1297.72,"endTime":1298.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1298.36,"endTime":1302.08,"body":"has required of you, living in this web where"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1302.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1305.64,"body":"she could devour you at any one moment. So you're going to marry"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1305.64,"endTime":1305.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1305.64,"endTime":1309.4,"body":"somebody who in one sense, independently,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1309.4,"endTime":1309.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1309.48,"endTime":1313.28,"body":"requires almost nothing of you? No, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1313.28,"endTime":1313.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1313.28,"endTime":1316.96,"body":"just loved her legs. I thought she was beautiful and she"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1316.96,"endTime":1316.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1316.96,"endTime":1320.59,"body":"was funny and like, that's the level of maturity"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1320.59,"endTime":1320.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1320.59,"endTime":1324.35,"body":"I had. I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1324.35,"endTime":1325.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1325.07,"endTime":1328.91,"body":"would assume you and Julianne had more maturity, but the bottom line is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1328.91,"endTime":1328.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1328.91,"endTime":1332.43,"body":"I wasn't mature at all. And in that, do you see,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1332.43,"endTime":1334.589,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1334.589,"endTime":1337.71,"body":"I didn't marry my wife for transformation."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1337.71,"endTime":1338.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1338.59,"endTime":1341.79,"body":"I didn't marry my wife for redemption,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1341.79,"endTime":1342.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1342.43,"endTime":1346.23,"body":"but I did. I did. And it was"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1346.23,"endTime":1346.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1346.23,"endTime":1349.91,"body":"so helpful to be able to say, oh, no wonder I'm so disappointed"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1349.91,"endTime":1349.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1349.91,"endTime":1353.53,"body":"in because you're not the God I thought you could be"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1353.53,"endTime":1353.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1353.77,"endTime":1357.61,"body":"or should be to be able to bring me"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1357.61,"endTime":1357.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1357.77,"endTime":1360.73,"body":"what indeed I don't seem to want from Jesus."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1360.73,"endTime":1362.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1362.01,"endTime":1365.61,"body":"So it's so easy to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1365.61,"endTime":1365.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1365.61,"endTime":1369.37,"body":"disappointed, move to resentment, or just to learn"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1369.37,"endTime":1369.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1369.37,"endTime":1372.97,"body":"like, oh, well, you're not going to get much in this area from your spouse"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1372.97,"endTime":1372.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1372.97,"endTime":1376.41,"body":"and you love them and things are overall good,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1376.41,"endTime":1376.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1376.73,"endTime":1379.93,"body":"so just learn to temper your expectations."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1379.93,"endTime":1380.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1380.81,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"That's a lot of marriage counseling. And I just think it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1384.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1384.07,"endTime":1387.51,"body":"absolute contrary to how God has made us."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1387.51,"endTime":1387.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1387.91,"endTime":1391.27,"body":"So when we begin to do this work and to begin to say,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1391.27,"endTime":1391.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1391.99,"endTime":1395.19,"body":"yeah, she married me in some sense to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1395.19,"endTime":1397.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1397.83,"endTime":1401.59,"body":"heal cruelty, I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1401.59,"endTime":1401.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1401.83,"endTime":1405.35,"body":"married my wife to heal the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1405.35,"endTime":1405.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1405.99,"endTime":1409.68,"body":"deep sense of exhaustion I felt and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1409.68,"endTime":1409.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1409.68,"endTime":1413.48,"body":"having to be for someone what I was never meant to be, then we can"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1413.48,"endTime":1413.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1413.48,"endTime":1416.92,"body":"be so much kinder, so much more like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1416.92,"endTime":1417.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1417.32,"endTime":1421.0,"body":"this problem with your computer that's triggering both of us,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1421.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1421.48,"endTime":1424.76,"body":"we have a better understanding of the triggers now. Again,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1424.76,"endTime":1425.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1425.08,"endTime":1428.8,"body":"I don't want to say it's magic. It still requires that choice to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1428.8,"endTime":1428.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1428.8,"endTime":1432.36,"body":"go, oh, now how am I going to tend to my own"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1432.36,"endTime":1432.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1432.36,"endTime":1436.04,"body":"heartache but also to yours? And so in that process,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1436.04,"endTime":1437.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1437.11,"endTime":1440.71,"body":"knowing the landscape gives me a much"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1440.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1443.75,"body":"clearer sense of how to move through the terrain."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1443.75,"endTime":1444.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1444.79,"endTime":1448.11,"body":"So there's a naming that's required of our own"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1448.11,"endTime":1448.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1448.11,"endTime":1451.11,"body":"individual brokenness, wounds and trauma,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1451.11,"endTime":1451.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1451.75,"endTime":1455.55,"body":"but also a naming of the dance or the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1455.55,"endTime":1455.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1455.55,"endTime":1459.31,"body":"cycle that's there. So you told the story about the laptop and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1459.31,"endTime":1459.31,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1459.31,"endTime":1462.31,"body":"Becky had an issue with the email and you were writing"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1462.31,"endTime":1463.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1463.38,"endTime":1467.18,"body":"and she asked you a question and then it set off all these eruptions,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1467.18,"endTime":1467.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1467.18,"endTime":1470.94,"body":"which weren't about the email or her question, it was about other kinds of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1470.94,"endTime":1470.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1470.94,"endTime":1474.54,"body":"things. So you talk about trauma in the book, which is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1474.54,"endTime":1474.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1474.54,"endTime":1478.02,"body":"Obviously, the impact of the past on all of our lives."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1478.02,"endTime":1478.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1478.5,"endTime":1482.14,"body":"But I appreciated how it broke out. Attunement,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1482.14,"endTime":1482.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1482.14,"endTime":1485.9,"body":"trauma. Because I always think of a coin with two sides, and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1485.9,"endTime":1485.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1485.9,"endTime":1489.46,"body":"I think absence and presence. That trauma is most often"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1489.46,"endTime":1490.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1490.0,"endTime":1493.56,"body":"the presence of things that shouldn't have ever happened. And attunement is the. Or the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1493.56,"endTime":1493.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1493.56,"endTime":1497.12,"body":"lack of it. Those attachment wounds are the absence, the things that didn't happen."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1497.12,"endTime":1497.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1497.76,"endTime":1501.44,"body":"So because the word attunement is thrown around so much and people"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1501.44,"endTime":1501.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1501.44,"endTime":1504.96,"body":"often don't actually stop to define it or understand it, will you"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1504.96,"endTime":1504.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1504.96,"endTime":1508.56,"body":"define attunement and then talk a bit about attunement, trauma?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1508.56,"endTime":1508.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1508.96,"endTime":1512.76,"body":"Yeah. Well, again, I know we'll eventually talk"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1512.76,"endTime":1512.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1512.76,"endTime":1516.56,"body":"about your book, but look what you've done in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1516.56,"endTime":1516.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1516.96,"endTime":1520.4,"body":"underscoring that whole issue of how we actually"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1520.4,"endTime":1520.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1520.56,"endTime":1524.14,"body":"hear and feel in a right hemisphere on behalf of another."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1524.14,"endTime":1524.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1524.78,"endTime":1528.54,"body":"Like, I know my wife's story, but if"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1528.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1532.1,"body":"I'm not allowing it to affect me, to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1532.1,"endTime":1532.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1532.1,"endTime":1535.26,"body":"trouble me, to anger me, to grieve me,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1535.26,"endTime":1535.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1535.5,"endTime":1538.86,"body":"there's a sense in which my presence is not being offered."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1538.86,"endTime":1539.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1539.58,"endTime":1542.98,"body":"So when we use the word presence, it really"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1542.98,"endTime":1542.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1542.98,"endTime":1546.82,"body":"rises from a Greek word, prosopon, which means face. We're not"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1546.82,"endTime":1546.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1546.82,"endTime":1550.14,"body":"giving our face to one another. So the idea of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1550.14,"endTime":1550.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1550.14,"endTime":1553.62,"body":"attunement is, I give you my face. I give you the most"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1553.62,"endTime":1553.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1553.62,"endTime":1556.58,"body":"vulnerable part of my body, the most"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1556.58,"endTime":1557.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1557.46,"endTime":1561.22,"body":"core to our identity, but also the most"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1561.22,"endTime":1561.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1561.62,"endTime":1565.019,"body":"naked part of my being in any"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1565.019,"endTime":1565.019,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1565.019,"endTime":1568.1,"body":"interaction is my face. Well, when you add that,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1568.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1568.66,"endTime":1572.18,"body":"70% of the muscles in your face you don't have direct control"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1572.18,"endTime":1572.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1572.26,"endTime":1575.94,"body":"over. So when we read one another's faces, we're"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1575.94,"endTime":1575.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1575.94,"endTime":1578.35,"body":"reading not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1578.35,"endTime":1578.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1578.83,"endTime":1582.51,"body":"infallibly, but we get a sense of, you're not"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1582.51,"endTime":1582.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1582.51,"endTime":1586.31,"body":"interested. You're hearing me, but you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1586.31,"endTime":1586.31,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1586.31,"endTime":1589.79,"body":"just planning your next response. Well, that's different"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1589.79,"endTime":1589.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1589.87,"endTime":1592.75,"body":"than when you've got somebody like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1592.75,"endTime":1594.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1594.83,"endTime":1598.59,"body":"just being with you. Michael, you obviously had a plan, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1598.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1602.27,"body":"you are engaging me in what you're hearing. That's what a good"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1602.27,"endTime":1602.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1602.27,"endTime":1605.82,"body":"therapist, that's what a good friend, that's what a good spouse does,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1605.82,"endTime":1605.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1605.82,"endTime":1608.98,"body":"is you might have some things you want to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1608.98,"endTime":1609.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1609.06,"endTime":1612.86,"body":"discover, but you're going to be in"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1612.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1616.42,"body":"this sync, this dance with the other, where there's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1616.42,"endTime":1616.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1616.82,"endTime":1620.66,"body":"resonance of grief to grief, anger to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1620.66,"endTime":1620.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1620.66,"endTime":1624.38,"body":"anger, heartache to heartache. So you've"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1624.38,"endTime":1624.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1624.38,"endTime":1628.18,"body":"got that beautiful passage in Romans 12, weep"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1628.18,"endTime":1628.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1628.18,"endTime":1631.62,"body":"with those who weep, rejoice with those who rejoice."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1631.62,"endTime":1632.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1632.36,"endTime":1636.12,"body":"That's, to me, what attunement is. I love that because"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1636.12,"endTime":1636.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1636.12,"endTime":1639.96,"body":"you didn't give a standard definition, which I wouldn't expect, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1639.96,"endTime":1640.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1640.2,"endTime":1643.96,"body":"it's the presence, and I love how the Greek is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1643.96,"endTime":1644.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1644.04,"endTime":1647.76,"body":"the face. Of course, I think you're making up half those Greek"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1647.76,"endTime":1647.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1647.76,"endTime":1651.56,"body":"words, like, yeah, it's presupposiaso. Just throw an"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1651.56,"endTime":1651.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1651.56,"endTime":1654.12,"body":"eye over it. The next meal,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1654.12,"endTime":1655.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1655.16,"endTime":1658.76,"body":"you check out and see whether or not we'll put the bet on it."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1658.76,"endTime":1658.84,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1658.84,"endTime":1662.68,"body":"If it's not prosopon, I'll buy. No, I believe you, but I have"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1662.68,"endTime":1662.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1662.68,"endTime":1665.62,"body":"a friend that does that. He'll just make up words and say, the Greek is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1665.62,"endTime":1666.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1666.5,"endTime":1669.78,"body":"well. And I do that with English. Yeah. Okay, good, good."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1669.78,"endTime":1670.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1670.58,"endTime":1673.7,"body":"So it's through attunement that we create"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1673.7,"endTime":1673.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1673.78,"endTime":1677.46,"body":"safety. And having safety between spouses"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1677.46,"endTime":1677.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1677.46,"endTime":1681.14,"body":"is absolutely essential for all the good stuff like love, joy,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1681.14,"endTime":1681.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1681.14,"endTime":1684.86,"body":"peace, patience, etc. So how do you and Becky"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1684.86,"endTime":1684.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1684.86,"endTime":1688.58,"body":"create safety? And how did you talk about that in the book? Well,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1688.58,"endTime":1688.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1688.66,"endTime":1692.06,"body":"I love this phrase from the lion, the Witch, and the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1692.06,"endTime":1692.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1692.06,"endTime":1695.3,"body":"Wardrobe, and you probably already know where I'm going. That whole question"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1695.3,"endTime":1695.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1695.86,"endTime":1698.1,"body":"that one of the girls asked, is"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1698.1,"endTime":1698.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1701.06,"body":"Aslan safe? And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1701.06,"endTime":1703.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1703.14,"endTime":1706.82,"body":"Mr. Beaver laughing with, is he safe?"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1706.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1710.02,"body":"Oh, no, child, he's good."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1710.02,"endTime":1710.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1710.82,"endTime":1714.5,"body":"So I think in any marriage, the question is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1714.5,"endTime":1714.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1714.5,"endTime":1717.83,"body":"is it safe enough? Is it safe enough"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1717.83,"endTime":1718.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1718.07,"endTime":1721.75,"body":"because we're meant for danger? That's in part"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1721.75,"endTime":1721.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1721.75,"endTime":1725.47,"body":"what awe is. If we're meant for gratitude, that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1725.47,"endTime":1725.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1725.47,"endTime":1729.27,"body":"a level of connection, of intimacy, a sense of safety."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1729.27,"endTime":1729.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1729.83,"endTime":1733.63,"body":"But we're meant for awe, and awe is meant to take your breath away."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1733.63,"endTime":1733.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1733.63,"endTime":1737.39,"body":"It's like standing at the rim of the Grand Canyon and looking"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1737.39,"endTime":1737.39,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1737.39,"endTime":1738.63,"body":"down and going, oh,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1738.63,"endTime":1740.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1740.95,"endTime":1744.71,"body":"that's a long way down there. So a marriage is meant to"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1744.71,"endTime":1744.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1744.71,"endTime":1746.99,"body":"have this intersection of safe enough"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1746.99,"endTime":1747.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1747.87,"endTime":1751.63,"body":"gratitude for one another. Thank you, thank you, thank you."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1751.63,"endTime":1751.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1751.63,"endTime":1755.43,"body":"Yet kind of like nobody invites me"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1755.43,"endTime":1755.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1755.43,"endTime":1759.15,"body":"into a level of personal, relational danger like my"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1759.15,"endTime":1759.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1759.15,"endTime":1761.87,"body":"wife does. And that danger of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1761.87,"endTime":1762.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1762.59,"endTime":1766.15,"body":"you're asking me to be what, at the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1766.15,"endTime":1766.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1766.15,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"moment I don't want to be, or I don't"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1769.92,"endTime":1769.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1769.92,"endTime":1773.48,"body":"think I can be. And yet you see who I"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1773.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1776.68,"body":"can become. So you have to have both."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1776.68,"endTime":1777.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1780.64,"body":"You have to have sufficient safety to be able to enter"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1780.64,"endTime":1780.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1780.64,"endTime":1784.32,"body":"the danger. But the danger is always going to create this"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1784.32,"endTime":1784.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1784.32,"endTime":1788.12,"body":"sense of, I didn't plan for this discussion. Oh, my gosh."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1788.12,"endTime":1788.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1788.2,"endTime":1792.0,"body":"I mean, how many times have people come to see you as a"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1792.0,"endTime":1792.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1792.0,"endTime":1795.4,"body":"therapist, and all of a sudden one of them"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1795.4,"endTime":1795.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1795.72,"endTime":1799.28,"body":"kind of has that look like, well, I didn't think we were going to go"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1799.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1802.52,"body":"there. Yes, yes. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1802.52,"endTime":1802.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1802.92,"endTime":1806.64,"body":"that's where, you know, oh, good, we're right on the"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1806.64,"endTime":1806.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1806.64,"endTime":1810.439,"body":"border. And again, I don't know where it's going to go, but you"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1810.439,"endTime":1810.439,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1810.439,"endTime":1813.4,"body":"got to go there. You got to let us go."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1813.4,"endTime":1814.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1814.04,"endTime":1817.36,"body":"But not precipitously. Not throwing"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1817.36,"endTime":1817.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1817.36,"endTime":1821.16,"body":"yourself off the cliff, but where you choose"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1821.16,"endTime":1821.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1821.16,"endTime":1825.0,"body":"with kindness and care to enter into the realms"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1825.0,"endTime":1825.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1825.32,"endTime":1829.06,"body":"where the old, old phrase, where angels fear to tread,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1829.06,"endTime":1829.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1829.7,"endTime":1833.38,"body":"that's what a good marriage holds. Sufficient safety to enter"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1833.38,"endTime":1833.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1833.94,"endTime":1837.38,"body":"the realms of one's own life, current, past,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1837.38,"endTime":1837.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1837.7,"endTime":1841.22,"body":"and future, in a way in which we get to dream."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1841.22,"endTime":1841.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1841.46,"endTime":1844.82,"body":"And like, Becky and I are in our 70s, and"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1844.82,"endTime":1845.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1845.22,"endTime":1848.86,"body":"we just had a dear friend of ours."},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1848.86,"endTime":1848.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1848.86,"endTime":1852.18,"body":"We just got noticed today that he died. And"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1852.18,"endTime":1853.31,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1853.31,"endTime":1856.95,"body":"when you've got people you went to high school or college or you've"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1856.95,"endTime":1856.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1856.95,"endTime":1860.11,"body":"known in ministry, and they're your age"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1860.11,"endTime":1860.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1860.59,"endTime":1863.15,"body":"and they die, it's another reminder of"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1863.15,"endTime":1865.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1865.79,"endTime":1869.47,"body":"how will we love one another in these final days,"},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1869.47,"endTime":1869.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"Speaker","startTime":1869.47,"endTime":1873.31,"body":"weeks, months, years, decades of our life in a way in which"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1873.31,"endTime":1876.87,"body":"12"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1876.87,"endTime":1876.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1876.87,"endTime":1880.6,"body":"says, Count the days. 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And years ago,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1894.84,"endTime":1895.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1895.88,"endTime":1899.24,"body":"something. Oh, and actually, not years ago, it was this year."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1899.24,"endTime":1900.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1900.44,"endTime":1904.2,"body":"Well, eight months ago, we were taking a walk,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1904.2,"endTime":1904.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1904.28,"endTime":1905.64,"body":"and Becky said,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1905.64,"endTime":1908.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1908.63,"endTime":1912.35,"body":"you think you're going to depart before me? And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1912.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1916.19,"body":"I'm like, yeah, actuarial tables"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1916.19,"endTime":1916.19,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1916.19,"endTime":1919.19,"body":"would tend to indicate that that's a higher probability."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1919.19,"endTime":1920.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1920.15,"endTime":1923.19,"body":"And then she said something that, again, one of those points of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1923.19,"endTime":1923.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1923.99,"endTime":1927.55,"body":"danger, you don't ever know in a marriage when it's going to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1927.55,"endTime":1927.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1927.55,"endTime":1930.79,"body":"occur. 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And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1946.01,"endTime":1947.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1947.77,"endTime":1951.61,"body":"what? She said, if someone came into our home,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1951.61,"endTime":1951.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1951.93,"endTime":1955.53,"body":"I know you would defend me and protect me, even if it cost"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1955.53,"endTime":1955.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1955.53,"endTime":1959.13,"body":"you your life. And I'm like, absolutely. Then why"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1959.13,"endTime":1959.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1959.13,"endTime":1962.29,"body":"don't you do that for one of the most important events in my life, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1962.29,"endTime":1962.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1962.29,"endTime":1964.77,"body":"that's passing from this earth to the next. Wow."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1964.77,"endTime":1966.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1966.28,"endTime":1968.44,"body":"And it was, oh, Michael, I'm telling you,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1968.44,"endTime":1969.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1969.96,"endTime":1973.64,"body":"I could weep. I cannot"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1973.64,"endTime":1973.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1973.64,"endTime":1976.76,"body":"imagine a day on this earth without my wife."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1976.76,"endTime":1977.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1977.56,"endTime":1981.159,"body":"And yet what she was inviting me to at that moment is this."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1981.159,"endTime":1982.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1982.04,"endTime":1985.72,"body":"You may pass before me, but I want to know"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1985.72,"endTime":1986.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1986.76,"endTime":1990.44,"body":"that in one of the most heroic acts of your life, that you would"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1990.44,"endTime":1990.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1990.44,"endTime":1994.21,"body":"see me home first. And it has been my"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1994.21,"endTime":1994.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1994.21,"endTime":1998.01,"body":"prayer. I think it actually changed"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1998.01,"endTime":1998.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":1998.01,"endTime":2001.77,"body":"some of my eating, helped me focus a little more on"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2001.77,"endTime":2001.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2001.77,"endTime":2005.25,"body":"it. I mean, what can I do beyond prayer to actually"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2005.25,"endTime":2005.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2005.81,"endTime":2009.61,"body":"be on her behalf what she's asking me to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2009.61,"endTime":2009.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2009.61,"endTime":2013.01,"body":"be? So, again, this is a walk, a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2013.01,"endTime":2013.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2013.01,"endTime":2016.73,"body":"Lovely morning. And can't we just enjoy the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2016.73,"endTime":2016.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2016.73,"endTime":2019.97,"body":"flowers? Yeah. And all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2019.97,"endTime":2021.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2021.04,"endTime":2024.88,"body":"she has turned my life upside down."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2024.88,"endTime":2025.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2025.2,"endTime":2028.64,"body":"I adore her. Yeah. And what an"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2028.64,"endTime":2028.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2028.64,"endTime":2031.92,"body":"invitation to love her like Christ loved the church,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2031.92,"endTime":2032.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2032.72,"endTime":2036.36,"body":"to bear that pain of ushering"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2036.36,"endTime":2036.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2036.36,"endTime":2039.96,"body":"her home. You know, I have a lump in my throat. And you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2039.96,"endTime":2039.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2039.96,"endTime":2043.68,"body":"said that, you know, Julianne and I don't think as much about it."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2043.68,"endTime":2043.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2043.68,"endTime":2047.49,"body":"We've lost three dear friends and a next door neighbor"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2047.49,"endTime":2047.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2047.49,"endTime":2050.93,"body":"who's just 10 years older than us, who's one of the fittest people that we"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2050.93,"endTime":2050.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2050.93,"endTime":2053.89,"body":"knew. And it's got me"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2053.89,"endTime":2054.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2054.21,"endTime":2056.85,"body":"basically asking the question and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2056.85,"endTime":2057.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2057.73,"endTime":2061.57,"body":"basically like one of us is going to bury the other and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2061.57,"endTime":2061.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2061.73,"endTime":2065.01,"body":"we don't think about that. And there's something about that that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2065.01,"endTime":2065.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2065.01,"endTime":2068.85,"body":"requires brutal honesty, grief. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2068.85,"endTime":2068.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2068.85,"endTime":2072.41,"body":"then I would say courage. That I feel like you're calling me to that."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2072.41,"endTime":2072.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2072.41,"endTime":2075.97,"body":"Like there's a tremendous honor in that. And I've never"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2075.97,"endTime":2075.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2075.97,"endTime":2079.76,"body":"articulated it, but I love those actuarial statistics."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2079.76,"endTime":2079.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2079.76,"endTime":2083.48,"body":"Right. That I would go first because, you know."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2083.48,"endTime":2083.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2083.48,"endTime":2087.24,"body":"But then there's something deeper that goes, what a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2087.24,"endTime":2087.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2087.24,"endTime":2091.08,"body":"sacred honor. So thank you for sharing that. And that's an example"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2091.08,"endTime":2091.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2091.48,"endTime":2095.2,"body":"of the danger that you're speaking of and that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2095.2,"endTime":2095.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2095.2,"endTime":2098.96,"body":"you wrote about that our spouse who is awake and alive and who"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2098.96,"endTime":2098.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2098.96,"endTime":2102.6,"body":"has done their work, they invite us into that, a place"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2102.6,"endTime":2102.6,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2102.6,"endTime":2103.88,"body":"of our own suffering."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2103.88,"endTime":2106.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2106.73,"endTime":2108.57,"body":"Part of me just wants to again say"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2108.57,"endTime":2110.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2110.57,"endTime":2113.61,"body":"the cost of living well is always"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2113.61,"endTime":2114.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2114.17,"endTime":2117.69,"body":"dying to self. But the way we"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2117.69,"endTime":2117.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2117.69,"endTime":2121.33,"body":"trivialize that in many ways, like I gave up X"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2121.33,"endTime":2121.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2121.33,"endTime":2124.85,"body":"or Y because I'm dying to self. And it's like, that's not what Jesus is"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2124.85,"endTime":2124.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2124.85,"endTime":2128.65,"body":"talking about. It's dying to. What is"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2128.65,"endTime":2128.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2128.65,"endTime":2132.34,"body":"keeping you from being fully human, fully alive"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2132.34,"endTime":2132.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2132.42,"endTime":2135.7,"body":"and fully capable of receiving and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2135.7,"endTime":2135.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2135.78,"endTime":2139.22,"body":"offering what you were meant for. Delight and honor,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2139.22,"endTime":2139.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2139.38,"endTime":2143.1,"body":"love. So, you know, to think, you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2143.1,"endTime":2143.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2143.1,"endTime":2146.9,"body":"know, there are moments where I go, oh,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2146.9,"endTime":2147.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2147.86,"endTime":2151.14,"body":"what might I been able to be? Might"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2151.14,"endTime":2152.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2152.34,"endTime":2156.02,"body":"have been able to teach in my 30s or 40s if"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2156.02,"endTime":2156.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2156.5,"endTime":2160.23,"body":"I had known what I know now? And in that there is"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2160.23,"endTime":2160.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2160.23,"endTime":2163.91,"body":"a certain susceptibility or seduction to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2163.91,"endTime":2163.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2163.91,"endTime":2167.51,"body":"regret. But I think, in fact what it does is facing"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2167.51,"endTime":2167.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2167.51,"endTime":2171.19,"body":"death and loss instead of regret. Grief"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2171.19,"endTime":2171.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2171.27,"endTime":2174.95,"body":"opens the door to say, and I get today. I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2174.95,"endTime":2174.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2174.95,"endTime":2178.63,"body":"get today. And it may be my last day on the earth."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2178.63,"endTime":2178.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2178.95,"endTime":2182.75,"body":"And I get it for the sake"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2182.75,"endTime":2182.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2182.75,"endTime":2186.43,"body":"of the kingdom of God. And the kingdom I get to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2186.43,"endTime":2186.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2186.43,"endTime":2190.25,"body":"live most intimately with is in the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2190.25,"endTime":2190.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2190.25,"endTime":2193.85,"body":"presence of my wife. And if one wants to become more like"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2193.85,"endTime":2193.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2193.85,"endTime":2197.01,"body":"Jesus, your marriage will mess you up"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2197.01,"endTime":2197.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2197.81,"endTime":2201.49,"body":"and offer an opportunity, not for it to merely"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2201.49,"endTime":2201.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2201.49,"endTime":2205.09,"body":"get better. That's great. I'm all for better marriages."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2205.09,"endTime":2205.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2209.33,"body":"But I want a deeply transformed heart"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2209.33,"endTime":2209.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2209.73,"endTime":2213.57,"body":"that doesn't make mere behavior change, actually"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2213.57,"endTime":2213.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2213.65,"endTime":2215.57,"body":"makes more a sense of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2215.57,"endTime":2217.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2217.7,"endTime":2221.5,"body":"gratitude. Oh my gosh, I get to be married to a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2221.5,"endTime":2221.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2221.5,"endTime":2225.14,"body":"woman like this who I married just because I loved her legs and she"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2225.14,"endTime":2225.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2225.14,"endTime":2228.82,"body":"laughed a lot and she didn't need me. And all of a sudden I'm"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2228.82,"endTime":2228.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2228.82,"endTime":2232.66,"body":"having my life turned upside down because she's asking me to deal with death"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2232.66,"endTime":2232.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2232.66,"endTime":2235.98,"body":"in a very different way. Yep, that's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2235.98,"endTime":2235.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2235.98,"endTime":2239.78,"body":"danger in a safe relationship. So you're"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2239.78,"endTime":2240.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2240.42,"endTime":2243.7,"body":"73 and I just turned 60 and you talked about"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2243.7,"endTime":2243.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2243.7,"endTime":2247.52,"body":"gratitude and I think, and I don't mean to be cute with words,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2247.52,"endTime":2247.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2247.68,"endTime":2251.48,"body":"but I always took gratitude for granted. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2251.48,"endTime":2251.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2251.48,"endTime":2255.08,"body":"in the last year, as I head into this next decade and you know, the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2255.08,"endTime":2255.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2255.08,"endTime":2258.56,"body":"normal aches and pains, I've started to be grateful for"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2258.56,"endTime":2258.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2258.56,"endTime":2262.2,"body":"gratitude that it seems to have an energy of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2262.2,"endTime":2262.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2262.2,"endTime":2266.04,"body":"its own and it seems to. There's a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2266.04,"endTime":2266.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2266.04,"endTime":2269.8,"body":"life and a vitality in it. And I'm just wondering what"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2269.8,"endTime":2269.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2269.8,"endTime":2273.12,"body":"your thoughts or comments are about that. Oh, I think it makes you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2273.12,"endTime":2273.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2273.12,"endTime":2276.92,"body":"childlike, you know, it just gives you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2276.92,"endTime":2276.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2276.92,"endTime":2280.16,"body":"a kind of new innocence. There are"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2280.16,"endTime":2280.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2280.8,"endTime":2284.64,"body":"philosophers and particular psychologists that I won't mention."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2284.64,"endTime":2284.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2284.64,"endTime":2288.44,"body":"But talk about secondary innocence. Like, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2288.44,"endTime":2288.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2288.44,"endTime":2291.92,"body":"known too much harm to myself and others, I've seen too much harm"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2291.92,"endTime":2292.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2292.08,"endTime":2295.64,"body":"in the context of the work we do. I can't have an"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2295.64,"endTime":2295.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2295.64,"endTime":2299.36,"body":"innocence as my 6 year old"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2299.36,"endTime":2299.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2299.36,"endTime":2303.12,"body":"grandson Gus has. On the other hand, there's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2303.12,"endTime":2303.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2303.12,"endTime":2306.78,"body":"a second secondary innocence that comes not by the denial of the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2306.78,"endTime":2306.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2306.78,"endTime":2310.58,"body":"harm, the cruelty about us, but in one"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2310.58,"endTime":2310.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2310.58,"endTime":2314.22,"body":"sense to be able to take in something of the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2314.22,"endTime":2314.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2314.3,"endTime":2317.9,"body":"beauty and the compelling presence of just"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2317.9,"endTime":2318.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2318.3,"endTime":2321.98,"body":"sitting outside and watching a bird feed"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2321.98,"endTime":2321.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2321.98,"endTime":2325.62,"body":"its young and to be able to go, oh, it's stunning. So when"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2325.62,"endTime":2325.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2325.62,"endTime":2329.18,"body":"you're captured by beauty in any form, my"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2329.18,"endTime":2329.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2329.18,"endTime":2332.7,"body":"guess is it's a return to a kind of innocence that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2332.7,"endTime":2332.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2332.7,"endTime":2336.34,"body":"allows you that. Thank you, thank you, thank you."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2336.34,"endTime":2336.74,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2336.74,"endTime":2340.5,"body":"And that's where that innocence is"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2340.5,"endTime":2340.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2340.5,"endTime":2343.66,"body":"the grounding to be able to go. I need to get"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2343.66,"endTime":2343.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2343.66,"endTime":2347.26,"body":"wiser in order to make these next level of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2347.26,"endTime":2347.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2347.26,"endTime":2350.98,"body":"risks and the interplay of awe. So gratitude"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2350.98,"endTime":2350.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2350.98,"endTime":2354.34,"body":"and awe are just. They're the nature of all worship,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2354.34,"endTime":2354.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2354.66,"endTime":2358.46,"body":"therefore they're always connected. Let's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2358.46,"endTime":2358.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2358.46,"endTime":2361.26,"body":"do. If I was a game show host right now, I'd say it's time for"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2361.26,"endTime":2361.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2361.26,"endTime":2365.03,"body":"the lightning round. So I'm going to. I'm just gonna ding, ding, ding"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2365.03,"endTime":2365.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2365.03,"endTime":2368.43,"body":"you. So the part of the book that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2368.43,"endTime":2368.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2368.59,"endTime":2372.03,"body":"it starts to shift into solutions"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2372.03,"endTime":2372.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2372.27,"endTime":2375.91,"body":"or the path or the healing, it's the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2375.91,"endTime":2375.91,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2375.91,"endTime":2379.669,"body":"conversation about change agents. And I love that because it"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2379.669,"endTime":2379.669,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2379.669,"endTime":2383.35,"body":"wasn't. Here are the steps or the techniques, but I'm going to read them"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2383.35,"endTime":2383.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2383.35,"endTime":2386.71,"body":"out loud for our listeners and then the lightning round will be that you can"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2386.71,"endTime":2386.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2386.71,"endTime":2390.56,"body":"say up to three sentences for each one. Okay. All right. Remember,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2390.56,"endTime":2392.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2392.08,"endTime":2395.56,"body":"Faulkner had sentences that lasted like"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2395.56,"endTime":2395.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2395.56,"endTime":2399.12,"body":"180 words. So I'm going to be. The question is more like"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2399.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2402.88,"body":"Faulkner. Or anyway, you go ahead. You can"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2402.88,"endTime":2402.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2402.88,"endTime":2405.44,"body":"use commas, but no semicolons. Okay,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2405.44,"endTime":2408.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2408.24,"endTime":2412.08,"body":"so they are. These change agents for how the transformation"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2412.08,"endTime":2412.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2412.08,"endTime":2415.82,"body":"takes place are humility, honesty, kindness,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2415.82,"endTime":2415.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2415.82,"endTime":2419.42,"body":"curiosity, the curious one of defiance."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2419.42,"endTime":2420.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2420.14,"endTime":2423.86,"body":"Then an intention to bless. I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2423.86,"endTime":2423.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2423.86,"endTime":2427.5,"body":"think that's six rather than seven. But humility, honesty, kindness,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2427.5,"endTime":2427.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2427.5,"endTime":2430.819,"body":"curiosity, defiance and an intention to bless. How does"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2430.819,"endTime":2430.819,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2430.819,"endTime":2434.26,"body":"humility launch transformation in a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2434.26,"endTime":2434.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2434.26,"endTime":2437.9,"body":"marriage? Humility is humus. It's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2437.9,"endTime":2437.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2437.9,"endTime":2441.58,"body":"humor. It's where you are in the dirt"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2441.58,"endTime":2441.58,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2441.58,"endTime":2445.08,"body":"enough to be able to. To desire and ask"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2445.08,"endTime":2445.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2445.08,"endTime":2447.8,"body":"for something more. Bingo."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2447.8,"endTime":2448.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2448.2,"endTime":2452.04,"body":"Honesty. Honesty is the telling of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2452.04,"endTime":2452.04,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2452.04,"endTime":2455.6,"body":"the truth in order to know more truth. Because we're all"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2455.6,"endTime":2455.6,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2455.6,"endTime":2459.4,"body":"biased. We all have a log in our own eye. And therefore in"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2459.4,"endTime":2459.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2459.4,"endTime":2463.24,"body":"telling the truth we get to see where we're wrong, but also where we're right."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2463.24,"endTime":2464.28,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2464.28,"endTime":2466.6,"body":"Next is one of my favorite words, kindness."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2466.6,"endTime":2467.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2467.88,"endTime":2471.56,"body":"Romans 2, 4. It is the kindness of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2471.56,"endTime":2471.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2471.56,"endTime":2475.35,"body":"God that leads to repentance. And why do you treat"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2475.35,"endTime":2475.75,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2479.43,"body":"the kindness of God with contempt? Kindness"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2479.43,"endTime":2479.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2479.67,"endTime":2483.35,"body":"opens the door to the reception of all the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2483.35,"endTime":2483.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2483.35,"endTime":2487.19,"body":"goodness of God. Curiosity. If you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2487.19,"endTime":2487.19,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2487.19,"endTime":2490.95,"body":"ain't curious, you are a full fledged"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2490.95,"endTime":2491.19,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2491.19,"endTime":2495.03,"body":"narcissist and therefore you are bringing great harm"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2495.03,"endTime":2495.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2495.03,"endTime":2498.83,"body":"to the universe. Curiosity is the acknowledgement. You"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2498.83,"endTime":2498.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2498.83,"endTime":2502.43,"body":"don't know defiance. You can have four"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2502.43,"endTime":2502.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2502.43,"endTime":2503.55,"body":"sentences for this one."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2503.55,"endTime":2505.95,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2505.95,"endTime":2509.23,"body":"Where's your sting, O death? Defiance"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2509.23,"endTime":2509.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2509.47,"endTime":2513.23,"body":"stands with the deep conviction there's an unseen"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2513.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2516.43,"body":"world that is not only better, but actually"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2516.43,"endTime":2516.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2516.83,"endTime":2520.59,"body":"meant to be brought to this earth. So defiance is, I will not be"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2520.59,"endTime":2520.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2520.59,"endTime":2524.35,"body":"bound by the reality I see. I will be bound"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2524.35,"endTime":2524.35,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2524.35,"endTime":2526.83,"body":"by the reality that will one day be seen."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2526.83,"endTime":2528.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2528.05,"endTime":2529.81,"body":"And an intention to bless."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2529.81,"endTime":2531.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2531.57,"endTime":2535.29,"body":"Nothing sweeter in life than being able to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2535.29,"endTime":2535.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2535.29,"endTime":2538.97,"body":"bring another a taste of the glory"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2538.97,"endTime":2538.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2538.97,"endTime":2542.65,"body":"that God has imbued them and written them to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2542.65,"endTime":2542.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2542.65,"endTime":2546.45,"body":"reveal. I just want to. First of all, thank you for"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2546.45,"endTime":2546.45,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2546.45,"endTime":2549.97,"body":"the lightning round. That was fascinating. I feel like we should take a commercial break"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2549.97,"endTime":2549.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2549.97,"endTime":2553.81,"body":"and then come back. Well, do I. Do I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2553.81,"endTime":2553.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2553.81,"endTime":2557.49,"body":"get a prize? You get a prize. Yes. You get a free copy of my"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2557.49,"endTime":2557.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2557.49,"endTime":2561.29,"body":"book. I already have it. I was so grateful. It's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2561.29,"endTime":2561.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2561.29,"endTime":2564.81,"body":"one of those things where you go, I love it that publishers"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2564.81,"endTime":2566.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2566.65,"endTime":2569.69,"body":"well treat a few of us with that level of care."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2569.69,"endTime":2570.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2570.65,"endTime":2574.29,"body":"I would have bought it if I had not been given the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2574.29,"endTime":2574.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2574.29,"endTime":2578.13,"body":"copy. Yeah, I was jealous when I read in the book that I won't"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2578.13,"endTime":2578.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2578.13,"endTime":2581.73,"body":"try to guess which publisher and which book, but how they gave you a ski"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2581.73,"endTime":2581.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2581.73,"endTime":2585.49,"body":"pass to four Colorado resorts when your family"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2585.49,"endTime":2585.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2585.49,"endTime":2588.77,"body":"was young and you guys took up skiing. Because I remember you driving your Saab"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2588.77,"endTime":2588.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2588.77,"endTime":2592.01,"body":"900 up to the mountain every week. Thank you. Yes."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2592.01,"endTime":2592.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2592.49,"endTime":2596.17,"body":"Oh, my gosh. We won't mention the publisher, but I promise you,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2596.17,"endTime":2596.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2596.25,"endTime":2599.97,"body":"ain't no publisher going to do that. It was a wild day back"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2599.97,"endTime":2599.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2599.97,"endTime":2603.45,"body":"in the Wild West. 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It's so important to have had a favorite"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2618.15,"endTime":2618.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2618.15,"endTime":2621.87,"body":"car. Like nothing has compared since. You know, I've"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2621.87,"endTime":2621.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2621.87,"endTime":2625.71,"body":"had some nice cars, but, you know, it's like you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2625.71,"endTime":2625.71,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2625.71,"endTime":2629.27,"body":"got a taste of what heaven will be and you need to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2629.27,"endTime":2629.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2629.27,"endTime":2632.23,"body":"hold that with all the Ford, Chevys and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2632.23,"endTime":2632.55,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2632.55,"endTime":2636.34,"body":"Toyotas that I've purchased since. And I don't know if you remember this,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2636.34,"endTime":2636.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2636.34,"endTime":2639.82,"body":"but you used to describe that car, the Saab 900, as a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2639.82,"endTime":2639.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2639.82,"endTime":2643.66,"body":"pregnant guppy. Yes. It's the ugly. If"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2643.66,"endTime":2643.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2643.82,"endTime":2647.62,"body":"anybody even remotely cares and wants to look it up, it's really"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2647.62,"endTime":2647.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2647.62,"endTime":2651.42,"body":"an ugly car. But it's in that sense of,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2651.42,"endTime":2651.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2651.66,"endTime":2654.94,"body":"you know, there are certain things that bear a kind of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2654.94,"endTime":2655.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2655.34,"endTime":2658.94,"body":"cultural ugliness that actually bears stunning"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2658.94,"endTime":2658.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2658.94,"endTime":2662.62,"body":"beauty to it. Yeah. It was the car at that time that everybody wanted to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2662.62,"endTime":2662.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2662.62,"endTime":2666.39,"body":"have because it was the Jerry Seinfeld car. Car on Seinfeld. I did not"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2666.39,"endTime":2666.39,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2666.39,"endTime":2670.11,"body":"know that to this day. Indeed. Serious. Yes. You and Jerry had"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2670.11,"endTime":2670.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2670.11,"endTime":2673.59,"body":"the same car. But if I recall, we were driving to a lunch meeting"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2673.59,"endTime":2673.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2673.67,"endTime":2677.43,"body":"with a couple who I came across"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2677.43,"endTime":2677.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2677.59,"endTime":2681.19,"body":"that were part of the false memory movement, and they wanted to meet you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2681.19,"endTime":2681.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2681.59,"endTime":2684.79,"body":"for some of the work in rewriting the Wounded Heart. Yes."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2684.79,"endTime":2685.59,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2685.59,"endTime":2689.31,"body":"Oh, my gosh, that was a long time ago. Yeah. But also"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2689.31,"endTime":2689.31,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2689.31,"endTime":2693.03,"body":"an unpleasant experience. But it was also one of those where,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2693.03,"endTime":2693.27,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2693.27,"endTime":2696.77,"body":"again, the surprise, like I'd written the Wounded Heart,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2696.77,"endTime":2696.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2696.85,"endTime":2700.49,"body":"and the publisher at that point got pressure from a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2700.49,"endTime":2700.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2700.49,"endTime":2704.13,"body":"very well to do donor to a particular ministry,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2704.13,"endTime":2704.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2704.69,"endTime":2708.37,"body":"threatening that my book"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2708.37,"endTime":2708.37,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2708.37,"endTime":2712.05,"body":"was going to get pulled. And they finally gave me the opportunity to write,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2712.05,"endTime":2712.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2712.29,"endTime":2716.05,"body":"I think, about 60 pages more on memory. So in one sense,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2716.05,"endTime":2716.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2716.21,"endTime":2720.05,"body":"it was disastrous because it ruined a Christmas. But it was also"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2720.05,"endTime":2720.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2720.13,"endTime":2723.77,"body":"one of those sweet gifts to be able to go, okay, I get to think"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2723.77,"endTime":2723.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2723.77,"endTime":2726.89,"body":"a little bit more about this topic than what I had done. But,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2726.89,"endTime":2727.13,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2727.13,"endTime":2730.09,"body":"yeah, that was crazy. Yeah. And if you remember,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2730.09,"endTime":2730.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2730.73,"endTime":2734.49,"body":"Kathy Helmers who went by another name at that time. I was the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2734.49,"endTime":2734.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2734.49,"endTime":2737.93,"body":"one that did the review of the book. And then you had rewritten it, so"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2737.93,"endTime":2738.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2738.33,"endTime":2741.93,"body":"that was a deep dive into all of that. On a more pleasant"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2741.93,"endTime":2741.93,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2741.93,"endTime":2745.69,"body":"note, I would like. Oh, not unpleasant at all. That's a relief. Thank"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2745.69,"endTime":2745.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2745.69,"endTime":2749.41,"body":"you. I had forgotten that we were together"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2749.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2753.17,"body":"on that. Well, and thank the Lord that the book was not pulled"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2753.17,"endTime":2753.17,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2753.17,"endTime":2755.51,"body":"from the shelves, because even. Even since then,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2755.51,"endTime":2756.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2756.47,"endTime":2759.99,"body":"hundreds of thousands of people have been touched by that book."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2759.99,"endTime":2760.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2760.79,"endTime":2764.63,"body":"And then your follow up to that, that was the Wounded Heart. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2764.63,"endTime":2764.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2764.63,"endTime":2768.43,"body":"then your follow up was Healing the Wounded Heart, which went more into trauma and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2768.43,"endTime":2768.43,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2768.43,"endTime":2771.99,"body":"the impact of it neurobiologically. And I highly commend both of those"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2771.99,"endTime":2771.99,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2771.99,"endTime":2775.67,"body":"books. You told a beautiful story"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2775.67,"endTime":2777.11,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2777.11,"endTime":2780.88,"body":"that made me wish that I was this creative. Your"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2780.88,"endTime":2780.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2780.88,"endTime":2784.4,"body":"25th anniversary, and you asked your kids, who"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2784.4,"endTime":2784.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2784.64,"endTime":2788.44,"body":"I think one was probably as young as 14, to write"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2788.44,"endTime":2788.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2788.44,"endTime":2792.08,"body":"a letter about what they had witnessed and learned by"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2792.08,"endTime":2792.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2792.24,"endTime":2796.08,"body":"watching their parents, marriage, their parents being you and Becky."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2796.08,"endTime":2796.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2796.4,"endTime":2799.72,"body":"And then you all went out to dinner and you shared and wrote these letters"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2799.72,"endTime":2799.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2799.72,"endTime":2802.88,"body":"at the restaurant. And the waiter thought, you know, you were all having a nervous"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2802.88,"endTime":2802.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2802.88,"endTime":2806.65,"body":"breakdown. Tell that story. And. And what"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2806.65,"endTime":2806.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2806.65,"endTime":2810.49,"body":"inspired you to do that? 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And I kept thinking"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2838.28,"endTime":2839.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2839.24,"endTime":2843.0,"body":"words, but more than just words, I want to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2843.0,"endTime":2843.0,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2843.0,"endTime":2846.8,"body":"hear what you've learned. And I said to them, I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2846.8,"endTime":2846.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2846.8,"endTime":2849.72,"body":"know there are things you've seen that, you know,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2849.72,"endTime":2850.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2850.36,"endTime":2854.12,"body":"aren't right, aren't good, and some probably that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2854.12,"endTime":2854.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2854.12,"endTime":2857.92,"body":"are good. So I want you to write honestly about what"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2857.92,"endTime":2857.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2857.92,"endTime":2861.72,"body":"you see as. And I didn't use the words, but I would"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2861.72,"endTime":2861.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2861.72,"endTime":2865.39,"body":"use them now. What did you see that was broken? What did you see that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2865.39,"endTime":2865.39,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2865.39,"endTime":2868.75,"body":"was beautiful? And it was, I would say,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2868.75,"endTime":2869.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2869.63,"endTime":2873.07,"body":"you know, maybe one of the top five nights or"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2873.07,"endTime":2873.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2873.07,"endTime":2876.79,"body":"meals of our life, because our kids really put time"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2876.79,"endTime":2876.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2876.79,"endTime":2879.79,"body":"into it. And even our youngest son, who"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2879.79,"endTime":2881.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2881.07,"endTime":2884.67,"body":"at that time would never have thought of himself as being able to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2884.67,"endTime":2884.67,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2884.67,"endTime":2888.35,"body":"write said words that were incredible. So"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2888.35,"endTime":2889.07,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2889.07,"endTime":2892.91,"body":"they read them to us at the meal, and we were both weeping. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2892.91,"endTime":2893.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2893.15,"endTime":2896.91,"body":"poor waiter, at one point he came up with kind of like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2896.91,"endTime":2897.15,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2897.15,"endTime":2900.19,"body":"is everything okay? And we're. Yeah, we're good."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2900.19,"endTime":2900.83,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2900.83,"endTime":2904.509,"body":"And is it the food? Is there anything? And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2904.509,"endTime":2904.509,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2904.509,"endTime":2908.23,"body":"oh, no, no. And I had to Explain to him I said, it's our"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2908.23,"endTime":2908.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2908.23,"endTime":2911.71,"body":"25th. Our kids are writing to us. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2911.71,"endTime":2911.87,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2911.87,"endTime":2915.47,"body":"it was really a sweet remark. He goes, I've never seen"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2915.47,"endTime":2915.47,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2915.47,"endTime":2919.25,"body":"anything like this before. 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A level of honesty, a level"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2926.57,"endTime":2926.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2926.57,"endTime":2930.05,"body":"of care, a level of delight, a level of ugliness, like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2930.05,"endTime":2930.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2930.21,"endTime":2933.89,"body":"you guys are living broken, beautiful heaven,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2933.89,"endTime":2933.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2933.89,"endTime":2937.33,"body":"hell, and yet we see goodness. So"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2937.33,"endTime":2937.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2937.89,"endTime":2940.21,"body":"our marriages are not,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2940.21,"endTime":2941.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2941.25,"endTime":2944.85,"body":"gee whiz, they're just not primarily for us."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2944.85,"endTime":2945.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2945.01,"endTime":2948.84,"body":"They are for our children. They are for our families, for"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2948.84,"endTime":2948.84,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2948.84,"endTime":2952.68,"body":"our world. And again, you get a public"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2952.68,"endTime":2952.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2952.68,"endTime":2955.24,"body":"world, I get a public world. And we are both"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2955.24,"endTime":2955.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2955.4,"endTime":2959.0,"body":"incredibly blessed men that we get to talk about"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2959.0,"endTime":2959.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2959.08,"endTime":2962.6,"body":"these matters with a larger audience. But"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2962.6,"endTime":2962.68,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2962.68,"endTime":2966.44,"body":"every marriage is being watched by someone,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2966.44,"endTime":2967.64,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2967.64,"endTime":2971.48,"body":"especially your children. And do you have the ability"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2971.48,"endTime":2971.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2971.88,"endTime":2975.4,"body":"to engage reality in a way that compels them to want to know"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2975.4,"endTime":2975.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2975.4,"endTime":2979.23,"body":"Jesus? Not just because you're religious, not because you go to church every"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2979.23,"endTime":2979.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2979.54,"endTime":2983.14,"body":"Sunday, not because you have devotions and prayer before you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2983.14,"endTime":2983.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2983.3,"endTime":2986.82,"body":"eat? Again, not in any way mitigating,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2986.82,"endTime":2986.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2986.82,"endTime":2990.26,"body":"minimizing, mocking any of that. I'm just saying,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2990.26,"endTime":2990.5,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2990.5,"endTime":2993.94,"body":"if that's it, if they don't see you being"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2993.94,"endTime":2993.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2993.94,"endTime":2997.78,"body":"changed through the process of the engagement with your"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2997.78,"endTime":2997.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":2997.78,"endTime":3001.54,"body":"spouse, then why would they want to get married"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3001.54,"endTime":3001.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3001.62,"endTime":3005.38,"body":"in a world like ours, where marriage is becoming less and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3005.38,"endTime":3005.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3005.38,"endTime":3009.14,"body":"less and later and later in life? I do"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3009.14,"endTime":3009.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3009.14,"endTime":3012.94,"body":"think it's primarily because so many kids have seen divorce"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3012.94,"endTime":3013.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3013.26,"endTime":3017.1,"body":"not just in their own life, but their friends, to a point"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3017.1,"endTime":3017.1,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3017.1,"endTime":3019.26,"body":"of going, I don't think this works."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3019.26,"endTime":3021.18,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3021.18,"endTime":3024.78,"body":"Do you have time for one more story? I do. All right, you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3024.78,"endTime":3024.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3024.78,"endTime":3028.3,"body":"created the segue, so I'm going to blame you if you miss your taxi or"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3028.3,"endTime":3028.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3028.3,"endTime":3031.82,"body":"something like that. Your Uber you talked about,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3031.82,"endTime":3032.7,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3032.7,"endTime":3036.4,"body":"there are people watching our marriage and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3036.4,"endTime":3036.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3036.48,"endTime":3040.24,"body":"the weeding the yard story. Oh, yeah. I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3040.24,"endTime":3040.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3040.24,"endTime":3042.4,"body":"got to tell you why I'm asking you to share this, because"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3042.4,"endTime":3044.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3044.24,"endTime":3047.88,"body":"seven years ago, and I've talked about this on the podcast, I was given the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3047.88,"endTime":3047.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3047.88,"endTime":3051.72,"body":"diagnosis of Asperger's autism spectrum. And it just put all"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3051.72,"endTime":3051.72,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3051.72,"endTime":3055.48,"body":"the puzzle pieces into place for me. So I have this."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3055.48,"endTime":3055.48,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3055.48,"endTime":3058.88,"body":"I can be very easily overstimulated, and I get really"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3058.88,"endTime":3058.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3058.96,"endTime":3062.61,"body":"neurotic, irritable when things are"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3062.61,"endTime":3062.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3062.61,"endTime":3066.09,"body":"transitioned from how I planned. So I'm in the backyard and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3066.09,"endTime":3066.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3066.41,"endTime":3070.09,"body":"I'm weeding, and Julianne said, no, I want you to weed over here."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3070.09,"endTime":3070.09,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3070.09,"endTime":3073.85,"body":"And I had asked you to fill up these dirt containers. And she"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3073.85,"endTime":3073.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3073.85,"endTime":3077.61,"body":"might be talking, let's say, at a three out of five, instead of what"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3077.61,"endTime":3077.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3077.61,"endTime":3081.37,"body":"I think should be a one. Because, for God's sake, the neighbors could hear you."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3081.37,"endTime":3082.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3082.01,"endTime":3085.73,"body":"And so, you know, my greatest fear is that the neighbors are going to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3085.73,"endTime":3085.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3085.73,"endTime":3089.42,"body":"hear us having just above normal interactions. And then you"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3089.42,"endTime":3089.42,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3089.42,"endTime":3093.02,"body":"tell this story. I laughed out loud. I am so"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3093.02,"endTime":3093.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3093.02,"endTime":3096.86,"body":"honored. I'm so honored. Yeah, well, you've told a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3096.86,"endTime":3096.86,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3096.86,"endTime":3100.58,"body":"good portion already because it's so similar. I"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3100.58,"endTime":3100.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3100.82,"endTime":3104.5,"body":"made this incredibly stupid move, and I said to Becky,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3104.5,"endTime":3104.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3104.98,"endTime":3108.82,"body":"it's Sunday. What would you love to do? What"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3108.82,"endTime":3108.82,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3108.82,"endTime":3112.62,"body":"would be just honoring to you? She said, after church,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3112.62,"endTime":3112.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3112.62,"endTime":3116.29,"body":"I want to weed. And I'm like, oh, good Lord, can't we"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3116.29,"endTime":3116.29,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3116.29,"endTime":3119.73,"body":"go look at antiques? Which would be the second worst thing in the universe."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3119.73,"endTime":3121.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3121.01,"endTime":3123.33,"body":"So I'm weeding, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3123.33,"endTime":3126.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3126.05,"endTime":3129.89,"body":"I have hyperfocused add and so"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3129.89,"endTime":3129.97,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3129.97,"endTime":3133.73,"body":"once I get into doing something, I'm pretty capable of just"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3133.73,"endTime":3133.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3133.73,"endTime":3136.61,"body":"sort of, like, moving through it without much thought."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3136.61,"endTime":3137.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3137.73,"endTime":3141.25,"body":"She showed me what were the weeds and what were the plants."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3141.25,"endTime":3141.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3141.41,"endTime":3145.26,"body":"And I was thinking about something else, and I pulled a number"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3145.26,"endTime":3145.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3145.26,"endTime":3149.06,"body":"of flowers, and she got ticked. And then she"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3149.06,"endTime":3149.46,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3149.46,"endTime":3153.22,"body":"went through the whole process again. What's a weed? What's not?"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3153.22,"endTime":3154.26,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3154.26,"endTime":3157.9,"body":"Two minutes in, I'm thinking about what I was thinking about, and then all of"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3157.9,"endTime":3157.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3157.9,"endTime":3160.74,"body":"a sudden, I have pulled more"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3160.74,"endTime":3161.3,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3161.3,"endTime":3165.06,"body":"flowers. At this point, she's not happy. And she starts in,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3165.06,"endTime":3165.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3165.54,"endTime":3168.98,"body":"and I push back, and we start going. And she's like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3168.98,"endTime":3169.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3169.69,"endTime":3173.13,"body":"you have ruined this. You have ruined a Sabbath"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3173.13,"endTime":3173.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3173.53,"endTime":3177.25,"body":"that you said you wanted to be with me doing something. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3177.25,"endTime":3177.25,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3177.25,"endTime":3180.77,"body":"I'm like, well, the point"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3180.77,"endTime":3180.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3180.77,"endTime":3184.57,"body":"being, we went on for a while, and it got"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3184.57,"endTime":3184.57,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3184.57,"endTime":3187.77,"body":"hotter. This is the front yard. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3187.77,"endTime":3189.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3189.85,"endTime":3193.53,"body":"after about maybe five minutes, That's a long time"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3193.53,"endTime":3193.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3193.85,"endTime":3197.36,"body":"for intensity to grow over. And there were more"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3197.36,"endTime":3197.36,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3197.36,"endTime":3201.12,"body":"words. All of a sudden, we"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3201.12,"endTime":3201.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3201.12,"endTime":3204.04,"body":"heard clapping. Literally, like"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3204.04,"endTime":3205.4,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3205.4,"endTime":3208.92,"body":"loud clapping. We look over just"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3208.92,"endTime":3209.24,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3209.24,"endTime":3212.36,"body":"next door, three couples had gathered,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3212.36,"endTime":3213.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3213.96,"endTime":3217.8,"body":"and literally, one of them had called. The other said, islanders"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3217.8,"endTime":3217.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3217.8,"endTime":3219.4,"body":"are having a fight again. Do you want to watch?"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3219.4,"endTime":3221.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3221.88,"endTime":3225.66,"body":"And they came over. There'd been two couples there. The third"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3225.66,"endTime":3225.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3225.66,"endTime":3227.06,"body":"came over, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3227.06,"endTime":3229.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3229.22,"endTime":3232.94,"body":"they started clapping. But when did they clap? It's when"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3232.94,"endTime":3232.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3232.94,"endTime":3236.1,"body":"I said, okay, I know I'm wrong."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3236.1,"endTime":3237.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3237.06,"endTime":3240.82,"body":"I'm sorry. I don't feel that sad right now, but I know"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3240.82,"endTime":3241.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3241.06,"endTime":3243.7,"body":"I'm being. And I used a pretty strong word."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3243.7,"endTime":3245.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3245.22,"endTime":3248.86,"body":"And that's when they began clapping, and they invited us over, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3248.86,"endTime":3249.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3249.02,"endTime":3252.38,"body":"the process began. Like, you know, just, you're laughing."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3252.38,"endTime":3252.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3252.94,"endTime":3256.62,"body":"Neighbors who know you a little, but not that much. And"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3256.62,"endTime":3257.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3257.02,"endTime":3260.7,"body":"one of the women said, how did."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3260.7,"endTime":3260.94,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3260.94,"endTime":3264.78,"body":"To Becky, how did you get your husband to apologize? Because even if"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3264.78,"endTime":3264.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3264.78,"endTime":3268.3,"body":"it wasn't terribly sincere or deeply felt,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3268.3,"endTime":3268.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3268.38,"endTime":3271.26,"body":"he clearly said he was wrong. How do you do that,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3271.26,"endTime":3272.06,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3272.06,"endTime":3275.5,"body":"obviously stating, I can't get my husband to do that."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3275.5,"endTime":3275.9,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3275.9,"endTime":3279.62,"body":"And so it opened a door, and it became clear, like, the men"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3279.62,"endTime":3279.62,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3279.62,"endTime":3282.88,"body":"got very uncomfortable, and the women were curious but"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3282.88,"endTime":3282.88,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3282.88,"endTime":3286.56,"body":"angry. And eventually what she"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3286.56,"endTime":3286.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3286.56,"endTime":3290.32,"body":"said was, he's a difficult man. And you know"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3290.32,"endTime":3290.32,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3290.32,"endTime":3293.96,"body":"that he's somewhat odd. You know that, Becky, speaking about you."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3293.96,"endTime":3294.2,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3294.2,"endTime":3297.92,"body":"Yes. And yet he also has"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3297.92,"endTime":3297.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3297.92,"endTime":3300.68,"body":"a very tender part of his heart toward me."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3300.68,"endTime":3302.12,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3302.12,"endTime":3305.96,"body":"And one of the men wanted to make a joke about it, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3305.96,"endTime":3305.96,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3305.96,"endTime":3309.78,"body":"somebody else asked another question, but the bottom line became, well,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3309.78,"endTime":3309.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3309.85,"endTime":3313.53,"body":"well, how does that grow in you? And it was such"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3313.53,"endTime":3313.53,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3313.53,"endTime":3317.33,"body":"a sweet moment of going, all right, if you want me to"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3317.33,"endTime":3317.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3317.33,"endTime":3320.73,"body":"answer. And I looked at the men's faces, and there was this look like,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3320.73,"endTime":3320.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3320.81,"endTime":3324.57,"body":"don't betray us. Don't"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3324.57,"endTime":3324.65,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3324.65,"endTime":3328.33,"body":"take this into a direction that could implicate"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3328.33,"endTime":3328.33,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3328.33,"endTime":3331.61,"body":"us. And I'm like, dude, you don't know me."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3331.61,"endTime":3332.89,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3332.89,"endTime":3336.69,"body":"That's not my way of being in the world. And I just said, if you'd"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3336.69,"endTime":3336.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3336.69,"endTime":3340.41,"body":"like to hear the story of how this has come about, the question is, do"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3340.41,"endTime":3340.41,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3340.41,"endTime":3343.49,"body":"you want the $2 $5 or the $10?"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3343.49,"endTime":3344.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3344.05,"endTime":3347.61,"body":"And one of the women, and actually one of the men said, no, we want"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3347.61,"endTime":3347.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3347.61,"endTime":3350.85,"body":"the real story, the whole $10. So it"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3350.85,"endTime":3350.85,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3350.85,"endTime":3354.13,"body":"literally set up a context to say,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3354.13,"endTime":3354.69,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3354.69,"endTime":3357.89,"body":"look, I may be a very poor"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3357.89,"endTime":3358.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3358.21,"endTime":3361.49,"body":"representative of what you might call Christianity,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3361.49,"endTime":3362.77,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3362.77,"endTime":3365.57,"body":"but I am a follower of Jesus, and"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3365.57,"endTime":3366.45,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3366.45,"endTime":3370.21,"body":"there's a lot about him I don't love, and a lot I do. I trust"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3370.21,"endTime":3370.21,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3370.21,"endTime":3373.36,"body":"him and I don't. So I'm no model,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3373.36,"endTime":3373.76,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3373.76,"endTime":3377.36,"body":"but I am a follower. And in that, there's"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3377.36,"endTime":3378.16,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3378.16,"endTime":3381.84,"body":"places in my heart that are becoming more and more tender"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3381.84,"endTime":3382.08,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3382.08,"endTime":3385.84,"body":"to the realities of the harm that I can do. So"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3385.84,"endTime":3385.84,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3385.84,"endTime":3389.6,"body":"it was a lovely context where it didn't sound,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3389.6,"endTime":3389.92,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3389.92,"endTime":3393.44,"body":"as it shouldn't sound, religious, but"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3393.44,"endTime":3393.44,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3393.44,"endTime":3396.4,"body":"relational. And in that, it was a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3396.4,"endTime":3396.8,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3396.8,"endTime":3400.56,"body":"sweet beginning for us, being asked many more"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3400.56,"endTime":3400.56,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3400.56,"endTime":3404.22,"body":"questions over many more years about our"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3404.22,"endTime":3404.22,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3404.22,"endTime":3406.98,"body":"relationship, but also about our relationship with Jesus."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3406.98,"endTime":3408.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3408.34,"endTime":3412.02,"body":"I love that story. I love how the humility, or"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3412.02,"endTime":3412.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3412.02,"endTime":3415.54,"body":"the near humility, which became humility, how that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3415.54,"endTime":3415.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3415.54,"endTime":3419.38,"body":"opened the door to relationship, and how both of you could"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3419.38,"endTime":3419.38,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3419.38,"endTime":3422.98,"body":"have folded your arms and clenched your jaw"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3422.98,"endTime":3422.98,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3422.98,"endTime":3426.58,"body":"and allowed the shame to dominate, but you didn't."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3426.58,"endTime":3428.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3428.03,"endTime":3431.79,"body":"Well said. And again, the reality is that"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3431.79,"endTime":3432.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3432.03,"endTime":3435.63,"body":"with your diagnosis, with mine, with our own sin, with our own"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3435.63,"endTime":3435.63,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3435.63,"endTime":3438.99,"body":"brokenness, why not just tell the truth?"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3438.99,"endTime":3440.51,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3440.51,"endTime":3444.23,"body":"Not cruelly and inappropriately, but there"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3444.23,"endTime":3444.23,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3444.23,"endTime":3448.03,"body":"is something about how when truth gets told, it"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3448.03,"endTime":3448.03,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3448.03,"endTime":3451.55,"body":"invites others to a truth that they may know or"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3451.55,"endTime":3451.79,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3451.79,"endTime":3454.26,"body":"in many occasions, may not know."},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3454.26,"endTime":3455.61,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3455.61,"endTime":3458.73,"body":"Dr. Dan Elder, former professor,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3458.73,"endTime":3459.05,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3459.05,"endTime":3462.81,"body":"mentor, person, who's profoundly influenced me thank you,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3462.81,"endTime":3462.81,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3462.81,"endTime":3466.49,"body":"friend, for taking the time to have this conversation. Thank you for writing the"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3466.49,"endTime":3466.49,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3466.49,"endTime":3470.209,"body":"book. This is going to help so many people. Thank you, Michael. And I do"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3470.209,"endTime":3470.209,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3470.209,"endTime":3474.01,"body":"look forward, even though I know the primary purpose"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3474.01,"endTime":3474.01,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3474.01,"endTime":3477.73,"body":"is to visit and be with your son. I hope we have"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3477.73,"endTime":3477.73,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3477.73,"endTime":3481.34,"body":"at least a few moments. That would be wonderful. Okay,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3481.34,"endTime":3481.34,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3481.34,"endTime":3485.14,"body":"everybody, we're wrapping up another episode of Restoring the Soul. This has been a"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3485.14,"endTime":3485.14,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3485.14,"endTime":3488.66,"body":"fabulous conversation with Dr. Dan Allender. As we close, please"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3488.66,"endTime":3488.66,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3488.66,"endTime":3492.02,"body":"remember this, that on your darkest day or your"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3492.02,"endTime":3492.02,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3492.02,"endTime":3495.62,"body":"longest night, love has you, love"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3495.62,"endTime":3495.78,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3495.78,"endTime":3499.46,"body":"has you, love has you. Till next time,"},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3499.46,"endTime":3501.54,"body":" "},{"speaker":"we're doing what Psalm 90","startTime":3501.54,"endTime":3502.14,"body":"all right?"}]}