{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.16,"endTime":3.72,"body":"Hi everybody and welcome to the Restoring the Soul podcast. It's Michael"},{"startTime":3.72,"endTime":7.32,"body":"and today I have in the studio and we are"},{"startTime":7.32,"endTime":10.64,"body":"actually in a studio, not over the Internet."},{"startTime":10.8,"endTime":13.92,"body":"Dr. Janelle Hallman, who is an intensive"},{"startTime":14.16,"endTime":17.96,"body":"therapist at Restoring the Soul and has been doing intensives"},{"startTime":17.96,"endTime":21.72,"body":"for six years here. Janelle is a longtime colleague of mine. I've known her"},{"startTime":21.72,"endTime":25.2,"body":"for almost 30 years. We used to teach together at Colorado Christian University."},{"startTime":25.76,"endTime":29.56,"body":"She's a published author. She has done workshops all around the"},{"startTime":29.56,"endTime":33.38,"body":"world and tremendous confidence and who she is as a therapist"},{"startTime":33.38,"endTime":36.94,"body":"and as a person. Today we're going to talk about her work"},{"startTime":37.26,"endTime":40.94,"body":"with women in both intensives, but especially in workshops"},{"startTime":40.94,"endTime":44.38,"body":"and groups as she's worked with women. So with no further ado,"},{"startTime":44.38,"endTime":48.06,"body":"Janelle, welcome to the Restoring the Soul podcast. Thank you."},{"startTime":48.46,"endTime":51.58,"body":"So glad to be here. I think you've been on the program at least two"},{"startTime":51.58,"endTime":55.3,"body":"other times and it's been great because I remember the first time I learned"},{"startTime":55.3,"endTime":58.78,"body":"things about you that I didn't know a little bit about your story growing up."},{"startTime":59.1,"endTime":62.42,"body":"So let's just revisit that just for a moment. You might not have been prepared"},{"startTime":62.42,"endTime":65.98,"body":"for this, but you spent time in the Pacific"},{"startTime":65.98,"endTime":69.78,"body":"Northwest. Yes. And as I recall, Alaska. Yes."},{"startTime":70.02,"endTime":73.38,"body":"Tell me about your favorite childhood story in the Pacific"},{"startTime":73.38,"endTime":77.22,"body":"Northwest or Alaska. Oh, gosh. You know,"},{"startTime":77.22,"endTime":81.02,"body":"what just came to my mind was actually not a childhood story, but was as"},{"startTime":81.02,"endTime":84.58,"body":"an adult going back to visit. It's a great story."},{"startTime":84.82,"endTime":88.62,"body":"Can I share that, please? Yeah, absolutely. My dad and I went fishing. I was"},{"startTime":88.62,"endTime":92.26,"body":"probably in my 20s and we went out in a boat"},{"startTime":92.54,"endTime":95.66,"body":"that was probably a 15 foot boat with a little"},{"startTime":96.06,"endTime":99.74,"body":"outboard motor, just a trolling motor. And"},{"startTime":99.82,"endTime":103.62,"body":"we were right at some cliffs just down the beach from where"},{"startTime":103.62,"endTime":107.38,"body":"my grandparents house was. And we were trolling along the"},{"startTime":107.38,"endTime":110.7,"body":"cliffs and my dad's fishing line got a"},{"startTime":110.94,"endTime":114.62,"body":"yank on it. And so he started reeling it in and"},{"startTime":114.78,"endTime":118.46,"body":"nothing was coming up. So he goes, oh, darn, it's a"},{"startTime":118.46,"endTime":122.17,"body":"snag. But he kept reeling, reeling. And then we"},{"startTime":122.17,"endTime":125.93,"body":"were, you know, moving the boat around where he thought was a"},{"startTime":125.93,"endTime":129.73,"body":"snag. He just keeps reeling. But he was taking in line."},{"startTime":130.21,"endTime":133.97,"body":"So it was a very odd thing because it was obviously a snag"},{"startTime":134.45,"endTime":137.97,"body":"until at one point we both looked down in the water and There was a"},{"startTime":137.97,"endTime":141.25,"body":"10 foot flash of white. 10ft,"},{"startTime":141.41,"endTime":144.89,"body":"10ft of white under the surface. It was a"},{"startTime":144.89,"endTime":148.13,"body":"halibut. It was about a 14 foot"},{"startTime":148.13,"endTime":151.65,"body":"halibut. Oh my gosh. That he had pulled up. It was almost"},{"startTime":151.65,"endTime":155.35,"body":"as, as the boat. Wow. And so we were not"},{"startTime":155.35,"endTime":158.75,"body":"prepared. I mean we were salmon fishing. You know, we were not prepared"},{"startTime":159.87,"endTime":163.71,"body":"and we didn't even have a gaff hook on the. On"},{"startTime":163.71,"endTime":167.55,"body":"board because there's no, there's no 14 foot net. Yeah, no, I"},{"startTime":167.55,"endTime":171.03,"body":"mean, we have little nets. And so we looked at the"},{"startTime":171.03,"endTime":174.67,"body":"halibut. We were both rather freaked out and a little scared because if"},{"startTime":174.67,"endTime":178.51,"body":"he started fighting, if the halibut started fighting, it could affect"},{"startTime":178.51,"endTime":182.35,"body":"our boat and our lives. So he had to take out his pocket knife"},{"startTime":182.35,"endTime":186.05,"body":"and cut the line because it's one of the"},{"startTime":186.05,"endTime":189.85,"body":"best fish in the world. And what a great"},{"startTime":189.85,"endTime":193.37,"body":"story. It was a great story. And it's one of those fishing"},{"startTime":193.37,"endTime":196.73,"body":"stories it's hard to believe. So when he says he had a 14"},{"startTime":196.97,"endTime":200.77,"body":"foot halibut on the line with his daughter and a 12 foot rowboat."},{"startTime":200.77,"endTime":204.53,"body":"Nobody believes, nobody believes us. But you're there to actually testify to the fact"},{"startTime":204.53,"endTime":208.25,"body":"that that's an amazing story. So how did you get from"},{"startTime":208.33,"endTime":211.85,"body":"growing up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska to being a therapist?"},{"startTime":212.41,"endTime":215.77,"body":"Well, how much time do we have? S?"},{"startTime":216.31,"endTime":220.15,"body":"We have seven minutes. No, go ahead and jump in with the story."},{"startTime":220.47,"endTime":224.15,"body":"Right. I think the"},{"startTime":224.15,"endTime":227.67,"body":"story of moving towards therapy started with just my"},{"startTime":227.67,"endTime":231.35,"body":"friendships and how across my lifespan I"},{"startTime":231.35,"endTime":234.63,"body":"had friends who always wanted to talk to me and especially talk to me about"},{"startTime":234.63,"endTime":238.23,"body":"their struggles and problems. And that just continued"},{"startTime":239.19,"endTime":241.59,"body":"into my 20s"},{"startTime":243.0,"endTime":246.72,"body":"and 30s, early 30s. It got to"},{"startTime":246.72,"endTime":250.44,"body":"the point where I was involved in support groups, I was involved in"},{"startTime":250.44,"endTime":254.28,"body":"doing some care work with people that it became"},{"startTime":254.28,"endTime":257.88,"body":"extensive and it was taking up a lot of my time"},{"startTime":258.039,"endTime":261.88,"body":"and it would have been nice if I could earn money. So it was one"},{"startTime":261.88,"endTime":264.32,"body":"of those things. Where I might as well be paid for it. I might as"},{"startTime":264.32,"endTime":268.16,"body":"well be paid for it. Exactly. But it was something that you were doing"},{"startTime":268.16,"endTime":271.92,"body":"because that's kind of who you are. And you also have a background in"},{"startTime":271.92,"endTime":275.46,"body":"the legal field and doing a lot of administrative work. So it's not"},{"startTime":275.46,"endTime":279.3,"body":"like, you know so many. The joke is teachers, you know, teach because"},{"startTime":279.3,"endTime":282.74,"body":"they can't do anything else. Therapists counsel"},{"startTime":282.82,"endTime":286.62,"body":"because they're just going to sit around and talk to people anyway. But you've"},{"startTime":286.62,"endTime":289.9,"body":"actually, you're actually very highly accomplished. You got your"},{"startTime":289.9,"endTime":293.58,"body":"PhD while doing a"},{"startTime":293.58,"endTime":297.42,"body":"private practice full time. You've written a book, you've spoken around"},{"startTime":297.42,"endTime":301.1,"body":"the world. Out of all of that and now being an intensive counselor. And you"},{"startTime":301.1,"endTime":304.83,"body":"don't have to say that my favorite thing is working at restoring the soul."},{"startTime":304.83,"endTime":308.59,"body":"But what have been your favorite things and the. Your best"},{"startTime":308.59,"endTime":312.43,"body":"experiences as a therapist since you've been doing this as a licensed therapist"},{"startTime":312.43,"endTime":316.03,"body":"for about 30 years. Like me. I think my"},{"startTime":316.03,"endTime":319.71,"body":"favorite thing is working with people"},{"startTime":319.71,"endTime":323.55,"body":"who I would call marginalized for very, you know, a lot of"},{"startTime":323.55,"endTime":327.11,"body":"different reasons, where I become the first person"},{"startTime":327.35,"endTime":330.76,"body":"who really gets to see them and hear them and"},{"startTime":331.0,"endTime":334.6,"body":"encounters their soul. And so much goodness"},{"startTime":334.84,"endTime":338.64,"body":"that's lost to the world because people"},{"startTime":338.64,"endTime":342.24,"body":"aren't willing to see or to sit with. So"},{"startTime":342.24,"endTime":345.88,"body":"that has just been amazing and profound and love"},{"startTime":345.88,"endTime":349.6,"body":"it when also people just have breakthroughs and"},{"startTime":349.6,"endTime":353.0,"body":"come to realize that they are beloved or that they are worthy."},{"startTime":353.96,"endTime":357.64,"body":"That is very, very, very satisfying and fulfilling. And"},{"startTime":358.04,"endTime":361.88,"body":"many experiences in individual therapy as well as group work"},{"startTime":362.44,"endTime":364.84,"body":"with women, profound"},{"startTime":365.96,"endTime":369.72,"body":"change in transitions and transformations. I want"},{"startTime":369.72,"endTime":372.68,"body":"to come back to the group work with women in a moment, but"},{"startTime":374.12,"endTime":377.8,"body":"I don't know about you, but if you're on social media at all or"},{"startTime":377.8,"endTime":381.44,"body":"even watching popular TV shows, this phrase, I don't"},{"startTime":381.44,"endTime":384.84,"body":"feel seen or I felt so seen has become part of pop culture."},{"startTime":385.4,"endTime":388.8,"body":"And I think the reason for that is that as you talked about, when you"},{"startTime":388.8,"endTime":392.62,"body":"see someone for the first time, especially somebody that hasn't had a lot"},{"startTime":392.62,"endTime":396.18,"body":"of input with those four S's of being seen, soothed,"},{"startTime":396.18,"endTime":399.9,"body":"safe, secure, they might have grown up profoundly neglected or"},{"startTime":399.9,"endTime":403.74,"body":"traumatized, and especially the marginalized, the people that have been pushed"},{"startTime":403.74,"endTime":406.9,"body":"out to the side, it's so powerful"},{"startTime":407.3,"endTime":411.1,"body":"for an individual, but it's also powerful for me. And it sounds like"},{"startTime":411.1,"endTime":414.9,"body":"this is the case for you to have that experience and to be an"},{"startTime":414.9,"endTime":418.42,"body":"instrument for people to almost"},{"startTime":418.5,"endTime":422.23,"body":"like wake up. Tell me about an experience that"},{"startTime":422.23,"endTime":425.43,"body":"you've had with that, maybe with the marginalized. Maybe more recently."},{"startTime":427.11,"endTime":430.71,"body":"I'm distracted by the word wake up because what I used to call it"},{"startTime":430.71,"endTime":434.23,"body":"is I think I am seeing or witnessing a soul being"},{"startTime":434.23,"endTime":438.07,"body":"birthed. That's what. Because they came to"},{"startTime":438.07,"endTime":441.59,"body":"life and discovered that they"},{"startTime":441.59,"endTime":445.35,"body":"had something to offer. Wow. So big difference."},{"startTime":445.83,"endTime":449.67,"body":"Wake up is that they were actually conscious at one point. Birth"},{"startTime":449.67,"endTime":453.37,"body":"is. It's like they're coming into being. They're coming into being being. I mean, that's"},{"startTime":453.37,"endTime":457.13,"body":"what much of my work has felt like. So"},{"startTime":457.13,"endTime":460.97,"body":"those experiences where people are coming into being, do you have"},{"startTime":460.97,"endTime":464.21,"body":"a memory or a moment in your 30 year career where"},{"startTime":464.69,"endTime":468.37,"body":"someone comes to mind where you were the instrument of them"},{"startTime":468.85,"endTime":471.57,"body":"coming into being and being birthed?"},{"startTime":477.33,"endTime":481.17,"body":"I have a memory of working with a gentleman at restoring"},{"startTime":481.17,"endTime":484.85,"body":"the soul and I can't recall what the"},{"startTime":484.85,"endTime":488.57,"body":"context was, except that I know the"},{"startTime":488.57,"endTime":492.13,"body":"message that I was sending him is it wasn't his fault, it"},{"startTime":492.13,"endTime":495.85,"body":"wasn't his fault, and that his value was not"},{"startTime":495.85,"endTime":499.45,"body":"diminished by whatever experience it was that"},{"startTime":499.53,"endTime":502.57,"body":"he was sharing and he broke into tears"},{"startTime":503.13,"endTime":506.33,"body":"and just wept for quite a while."},{"startTime":506.81,"endTime":510.65,"body":"And when he was finally able to compose himself and look up,"},{"startTime":513.03,"endTime":515.75,"body":"were around that he has value,"},{"startTime":516.63,"endTime":520.07,"body":"that I have some sense of value"},{"startTime":520.39,"endTime":524.07,"body":"or worth, that he was touching that inside of himself."},{"startTime":525.59,"endTime":529.43,"body":"And that's a waking up. I mean, that's waking up,"},{"startTime":529.43,"endTime":533.15,"body":"but it's also a birthing. Because if you live with a sense"},{"startTime":533.15,"endTime":536.99,"body":"of no value in life, there is no life, there's"},{"startTime":536.99,"endTime":540.67,"body":"no abundance. That's right. Yeah. It's like you're beside yourself or"},{"startTime":540.67,"endTime":543.51,"body":"not actually inhabiting your life, as Leon Payne used to say."},{"startTime":544.48,"endTime":548.0,"body":"Yeah. So let's come back to talking about your group"},{"startTime":548.08,"endTime":551.84,"body":"work with women. That's something that's also been a passion, but you've also gotten"},{"startTime":551.84,"endTime":554.92,"body":"a lot of post doctoral training and"},{"startTime":554.92,"endTime":558.76,"body":"certifications in working with women. Why are groups"},{"startTime":558.76,"endTime":561.92,"body":"such a powerful experience for you with women? Good question."},{"startTime":563.12,"endTime":566.84,"body":"I started group work early in my practice as a"},{"startTime":566.84,"endTime":570.56,"body":"therapist. So it actually started about 28 years ago."},{"startTime":571.6,"endTime":575.44,"body":"And that was because I felt when I'm sitting with so many"},{"startTime":575.44,"endTime":579.18,"body":"women who didn't realize the goodness that lived inside of them"},{"startTime":579.18,"endTime":582.34,"body":"or their worth or their value, I realized that the"},{"startTime":582.34,"endTime":585.82,"body":"individual relationship wasn't enough"},{"startTime":585.9,"endTime":588.94,"body":"to affirm their worth and value."},{"startTime":589.5,"endTime":593.18,"body":"They were definitely feeling loved by me, but they needed"},{"startTime":593.18,"endTime":597.02,"body":"community. And so many of them didn't have community. And so"},{"startTime":597.02,"endTime":600.7,"body":"that was the first realization is I think I want to create"},{"startTime":600.7,"endTime":604.06,"body":"community for these women. Well, I couldn't go out there recruiting friends,"},{"startTime":604.46,"endTime":607.64,"body":"so I thought, I'm going to start a therapy group for women."},{"startTime":608.12,"endTime":611.92,"body":"And I did. And I ran those for a couple of them"},{"startTime":611.92,"endTime":615.56,"body":"for about eight years. And they were based"},{"startTime":615.64,"endTime":619.48,"body":"in Irving Yalom's theory around groups."},{"startTime":619.48,"endTime":622.64,"body":"He's a famous psychiatrist, the Social"},{"startTime":622.64,"endTime":626.44,"body":"Microcosm, who has a book that's about 3 inches thick on how to"},{"startTime":626.44,"endTime":630.04,"body":"do group therapy. But his uniqueness"},{"startTime":630.04,"endTime":633.4,"body":"was to construct a group where you process"},{"startTime":633.8,"endTime":637.44,"body":"here and now experiences. And that's how I ran my group,"},{"startTime":637.44,"endTime":640.82,"body":"was here and now inviting the women to respond"},{"startTime":640.9,"endTime":644.46,"body":"honestly and authentically to what was happening right"},{"startTime":644.46,"endTime":648.18,"body":"now in this circle of group. And it was"},{"startTime":648.26,"endTime":652.02,"body":"so powerful because often conflict would arise in the"},{"startTime":652.02,"endTime":655.74,"body":"group and we would work through the conflict, which gave them"},{"startTime":655.74,"endTime":659.38,"body":"an imprint or a corrective experience, as"},{"startTime":659.38,"endTime":662.94,"body":"Yalom would call it, of something different than what"},{"startTime":662.94,"endTime":666.18,"body":"happened in their family of origin. And"},{"startTime":667.0,"endTime":670.68,"body":"they gained a sense also of mattering. We would acknowledge them if they were"},{"startTime":671.4,"endTime":675.04,"body":"absent by keeping an empty chair in the circle so that we would"},{"startTime":675.04,"endTime":678.72,"body":"know that she's still here with us, although she couldn't be in"},{"startTime":678.72,"endTime":682.12,"body":"physical presence. Just so many different things that we did,"},{"startTime":682.84,"endTime":686.32,"body":"just so powerful. And I think a lot of women got more"},{"startTime":686.32,"endTime":689.8,"body":"healing out of those groups than they did in just the individual"},{"startTime":689.8,"endTime":693.52,"body":"therapy. Individual therapy, weekly therapy is slow. And that's what I was"},{"startTime":693.52,"endTime":697.28,"body":"doing back then. So very powerful. And then"},{"startTime":697.28,"endTime":700.82,"body":"I led retreats for 15"},{"startTime":700.9,"endTime":704.58,"body":"years for women who had a common struggle."},{"startTime":705.22,"endTime":709.02,"body":"So these are women who all came in with a common struggle and"},{"startTime":709.02,"endTime":712.66,"body":"the power of them just meeting each other initially"},{"startTime":712.66,"endTime":716.18,"body":"on the opening night going, oh, you are like me."},{"startTime":716.5,"endTime":720.02,"body":"Oh, I'm not alone. So this universality"},{"startTime":720.1,"endTime":723.78,"body":"of I'm not alone, where everything that we did"},{"startTime":723.94,"endTime":727.12,"body":"over those weekends was around this common"},{"startTime":727.52,"endTime":731.32,"body":"difficulty, you know, or confusion in their life, that"},{"startTime":731.32,"endTime":735.08,"body":"was very powerful for them. Then they left with a"},{"startTime":735.08,"endTime":738.64,"body":"sense of community, even if we would never gather again as a circle."},{"startTime":738.64,"endTime":742.0,"body":"Right. And then I've started doing the transformational"},{"startTime":742.32,"endTime":745.56,"body":"workshops, which are experiential"},{"startTime":745.56,"endTime":748.96,"body":"workshops that. That involve embodiment,"},{"startTime":749.12,"endTime":752.56,"body":"which is as simple to explain. Embodiment is. I"},{"startTime":752.56,"endTime":756.13,"body":"remember I was at a workshop years ago. It was a"},{"startTime":756.13,"endTime":759.77,"body":"healing prayer workshop. We were learning about healing prayer."},{"startTime":760.25,"endTime":764.09,"body":"And we had an opportunity to actually receive prayer."},{"startTime":764.17,"endTime":767.93,"body":"So I went up and got some prayer. And what however"},{"startTime":767.93,"endTime":771.77,"body":"the prayer person prayed, I started weeping."},{"startTime":772.25,"endTime":775.97,"body":"And they enfolded me in their arms and I"},{"startTime":775.97,"endTime":779.73,"body":"wept on their shoulder. And that was the first time I"},{"startTime":779.73,"endTime":783.37,"body":"had ever been held while I was crying. That"},{"startTime":783.45,"endTime":786.93,"body":"imprinted on my heart. I will never forget that moment."},{"startTime":787.33,"endTime":790.13,"body":"That's what we mean by embodiment, where there's actually,"},{"startTime":791.65,"endTime":795.09,"body":"we're using the body to track our emotions."},{"startTime":795.09,"endTime":798.93,"body":"We're moving our body into different posturing that"},{"startTime":798.93,"endTime":802.57,"body":"affects our emotional world and learning about"},{"startTime":802.57,"endTime":806.25,"body":"ourselves through embodied experiences. And you could have"},{"startTime":806.25,"endTime":809.77,"body":"read a hundred books on the fact that it's"},{"startTime":809.77,"endTime":813.28,"body":"safe to entrust your needs to somebody else, or it's"},{"startTime":813.28,"endTime":817.12,"body":"safe in a safe setting like a therapy group or prayer, inner healing"},{"startTime":817.12,"endTime":820.68,"body":"prayer group. To be held by somebody, but to have the experience"},{"startTime":821.0,"endTime":824.6,"body":"of it. That's right. Is equal to, if not greater than reading"},{"startTime":824.6,"endTime":828.32,"body":"100 books. Yep. And then, as you said, something's imprinted. That's what we"},{"startTime":828.32,"endTime":831.76,"body":"call secure attachment, or growing either out of an"},{"startTime":831.76,"endTime":835.56,"body":"insecure attachment into a secure attachment or deepening and strengthening that"},{"startTime":835.56,"endTime":839.21,"body":"secure attachment. I did groups with"},{"startTime":839.21,"endTime":842.69,"body":"men around the same time that you were doing those groups. And I think you"},{"startTime":842.69,"endTime":846.21,"body":"even had me come and speak at more of a programmatic thing that you did"},{"startTime":846.21,"endTime":850.01,"body":"downtown. And men often describe"},{"startTime":850.01,"endTime":853.53,"body":"those groups after a very short amount of time as"},{"startTime":853.53,"endTime":857.29,"body":"this is what church should be like. Yes. And"},{"startTime":857.29,"endTime":860.93,"body":"so you're right away Saying, yes. And your smile is"},{"startTime":860.93,"endTime":864.65,"body":"showing that as well. Talk about that experience, how those groups can be like church."},{"startTime":866.22,"endTime":869.98,"body":"Well, I. I mean, it's amazing that people have a sense"},{"startTime":869.98,"endTime":873.14,"body":"of this is what church should be. So the way I would describe the groups"},{"startTime":873.14,"endTime":876.22,"body":"are vulnerability, openness,"},{"startTime":877.02,"endTime":880.86,"body":"safety, no judgment, acceptance,"},{"startTime":881.26,"endTime":884.46,"body":"a sense of belonging. And why."},{"startTime":884.86,"endTime":888.62,"body":"Why we don't experience that in church is a"},{"startTime":888.62,"endTime":891.66,"body":"big question mark. Except that I know there's a lot of pretense,"},{"startTime":892.37,"endTime":896.05,"body":"pretending, performance, being on your best behavior,"},{"startTime":896.69,"endTime":900.41,"body":"not having the opportunity to really talk about the deepest aches in"},{"startTime":900.41,"endTime":904.21,"body":"your heart. And that's sad. That's very sad. Yeah."},{"startTime":904.21,"endTime":907.97,"body":"And we've seen some churches over the years that, whether it's through"},{"startTime":908.05,"endTime":911.41,"body":"a small group ministry or an inner healing program, or even"},{"startTime":911.73,"endTime":915.49,"body":"churches that have celebrate recovery programs, that they work to create a context"},{"startTime":915.73,"endTime":918.85,"body":"like that. But there's something very unique about,"},{"startTime":919.61,"endTime":922.09,"body":"you know, when you go to a therapist, that's this"},{"startTime":922.41,"endTime":924.65,"body":"sacrosanct place and person"},{"startTime":926.25,"endTime":930.05,"body":"I'm aware of on social media, you know, watching clips of"},{"startTime":930.05,"endTime":933.73,"body":"people saying very publicly, like, yesterday I went to my therapist and, you"},{"startTime":933.73,"endTime":937.57,"body":"know, had this powerful session. And even 10 years ago, before and"},{"startTime":937.57,"endTime":941.21,"body":"before the pandemic, people wouldn't talk so openly about that. But"},{"startTime":941.45,"endTime":945.29,"body":"it's almost as if, and interestingly, Irvin Yalom said this, that the"},{"startTime":945.29,"endTime":948.8,"body":"therapy office is. It is like a"},{"startTime":948.8,"endTime":951.92,"body":"sanctum where it's a safe place where"},{"startTime":952.16,"endTime":955.96,"body":"Yalam, who is. I believe he's still alive in his 90s, because I have"},{"startTime":955.96,"endTime":959.72,"body":"a friend that actually called him up out of the blue about five years"},{"startTime":959.72,"endTime":963.48,"body":"ago and said, would you counsel me? And he went, tell me a little bit"},{"startTime":963.48,"endTime":966.64,"body":"about yourself. And like, Irv answered the phone."},{"startTime":967.12,"endTime":970.96,"body":"And he ended up working with him for several years and maybe"},{"startTime":970.96,"endTime":974.6,"body":"still is. But Yalam once said in the Mars Hill Review journal"},{"startTime":974.6,"endTime":978.19,"body":"that I used to write for, he was interviewed by"},{"startTime":978.59,"endTime":982.43,"body":"a man who's gone on to be with the Lord now, Bruce Ramsay."},{"startTime":983.07,"endTime":986.67,"body":"And Yalam told him that"},{"startTime":987.07,"endTime":990.59,"body":"because this was a Christian magazine, he said in this interview, almost"},{"startTime":990.67,"endTime":994.03,"body":"confessionally, you know, I've never told anybody this, but"},{"startTime":994.51,"endTime":997.99,"body":"I was in Japan once in Kyoto, which is filled with"},{"startTime":997.99,"endTime":1001.79,"body":"temples. My daughter just came back from there, and I walked into one"},{"startTime":1001.79,"endTime":1005.43,"body":"of these temples and there was like this inner room that I imagine what a"},{"startTime":1005.43,"endTime":1009.24,"body":"Catholic priest confessional would look like. And I went in there"},{"startTime":1009.24,"endTime":1013.08,"body":"and closed the door and just sat down because for"},{"startTime":1013.08,"endTime":1016.92,"body":"decades people have come into my room and confessed their"},{"startTime":1016.92,"endTime":1020.56,"body":"deepest sins and pains and struggles. But he said, here I was in this"},{"startTime":1021.12,"endTime":1024.88,"body":"priestly room. And he said it felt really"},{"startTime":1024.88,"endTime":1028.72,"body":"interesting. And I felt a sense of transcendence, which is interesting that this Jewish"},{"startTime":1028.72,"endTime":1032.28,"body":"agnostic, brilliant man was. Was saying that, all right, coming"},{"startTime":1032.28,"endTime":1036.129,"body":"back to those groups, restoring the"},{"startTime":1036.129,"endTime":1039.969,"body":"Soul has the blessing, not just of you being an intensive therapist here"},{"startTime":1039.969,"endTime":1042.969,"body":"for the past six years, but a couple of years ago,"},{"startTime":1043.529,"endTime":1047.049,"body":"you initiated and led a women's weekend"},{"startTime":1047.609,"endTime":1051.049,"body":"similar to some of the women's workshops that you've led around the country. And that"},{"startTime":1051.049,"endTime":1054.649,"body":"was called essence. And we've hit pause on"},{"startTime":1054.649,"endTime":1058.129,"body":"that, and that's being, Lord willing, redeveloped, and we're going to"},{"startTime":1058.129,"endTime":1061.689,"body":"reintroduce that. But in the interim, you've been doing groups"},{"startTime":1062.04,"endTime":1065.8,"body":"called an Essence Circle. Am I getting that right? Yes, you are. I thought so."},{"startTime":1065.8,"endTime":1069.24,"body":"I wanted to say Essence Group, but I said Essence Circle. So what are"},{"startTime":1069.24,"endTime":1072.44,"body":"Essence Circles? And they're very unique,"},{"startTime":1073.08,"endTime":1076.92,"body":"so just lay that out for listeners. This"},{"startTime":1076.92,"endTime":1080.2,"body":"is an online gathering,"},{"startTime":1081.24,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"and I think the unique"},{"startTime":1084.92,"endTime":1088.71,"body":"part of Essence Circles is the welcoming"},{"startTime":1089.19,"endTime":1092.87,"body":"of wherever you're at, we welcome you just as"},{"startTime":1092.87,"endTime":1095.99,"body":"you are. So this is a space for women to come into."},{"startTime":1096.63,"endTime":1099.83,"body":"And it's very related to what I just said about the church"},{"startTime":1100.55,"endTime":1104.35,"body":"that there's so much pressure to"},{"startTime":1104.35,"endTime":1108.19,"body":"be something that often we're not. And"},{"startTime":1108.19,"endTime":1111.83,"body":"very few places in a lot of church communities for a woman"},{"startTime":1112.07,"endTime":1115.89,"body":"to just be real, to be honest, to bring her"},{"startTime":1115.89,"endTime":1118.69,"body":"complaints, to bring her pain, to bring her"},{"startTime":1119.73,"endTime":1123.57,"body":"anger, to bring her sadness, to bring her questioning"},{"startTime":1123.57,"endTime":1127.25,"body":"and doubts about her faith. So this"},{"startTime":1127.97,"endTime":1131.81,"body":"circle is a welcoming of whatever you bring,"},{"startTime":1132.45,"endTime":1136.25,"body":"you are welcome just as you are. And I want to hear"},{"startTime":1136.25,"endTime":1140.01,"body":"more about it. But just some people might be. They might"},{"startTime":1140.01,"endTime":1143.81,"body":"hear the word online and they might dismiss that right away. I used to"},{"startTime":1143.81,"endTime":1147.59,"body":"be a cynic of online therapy and online groups, and"},{"startTime":1147.59,"endTime":1151.23,"body":"although our intensives are so unique that apart from"},{"startTime":1151.31,"endTime":1153.63,"body":"two months during the pandemic, we don't do online"},{"startTime":1154.43,"endTime":1157.87,"body":"intensives. I've been a part of online therapy"},{"startTime":1157.87,"endTime":1161.629,"body":"groups that are very powerful, and after a moment, you feel like you're"},{"startTime":1161.629,"endTime":1164.91,"body":"sitting. In the room, you're sitting there exactly. With people, and you can actually experience"},{"startTime":1164.91,"endTime":1168.59,"body":"what they're experiencing. And it's kind of uncanny. It really"},{"startTime":1168.59,"endTime":1171.95,"body":"is. And with the online"},{"startTime":1172.35,"endTime":1175.95,"body":"format, we can do a whole group share"},{"startTime":1175.95,"endTime":1179.61,"body":"or process together, but we also break out into breakout groups."},{"startTime":1179.61,"endTime":1183.45,"body":"And so then you're sent out with a partner, and it is really"},{"startTime":1183.45,"endTime":1187.29,"body":"like sitting in the same room with them. Very"},{"startTime":1187.29,"endTime":1191.09,"body":"powerful. So these Essence Circles, is this"},{"startTime":1191.09,"endTime":1194.57,"body":"a therapy group? It's not really a therapy group,"},{"startTime":1195.53,"endTime":1199.21,"body":"and it's not. This is what makes it unique. It's not a support group."},{"startTime":1199.45,"endTime":1203.29,"body":"Support groups are where you Come and you all talk about kind of your lives"},{"startTime":1203.45,"endTime":1206.97,"body":"and, and everybody nods and"},{"startTime":1207.05,"endTime":1210.73,"body":"supports you in whatever journey you're in. This is"},{"startTime":1210.81,"endTime":1214.49,"body":"somewhat of what we would call a process group because there is a"},{"startTime":1214.49,"endTime":1218.29,"body":"focus on the here and now. But it"},{"startTime":1218.29,"endTime":1221.53,"body":"is very related to what we would call experiential"},{"startTime":1222.73,"endTime":1226.41,"body":"work, which is more of a coaching paradigm"},{"startTime":1226.41,"endTime":1230.05,"body":"than therapy. Which fits well with people from all over the"},{"startTime":1230.05,"endTime":1233.87,"body":"world, potentially. Yes, yes. So. So this is an"},{"startTime":1233.87,"endTime":1237.39,"body":"opportunity for women to, number one,"},{"startTime":1237.55,"endTime":1241.31,"body":"connect with themselves. Because we're so busy as women."},{"startTime":1241.31,"endTime":1244.35,"body":"I mean, this is something we just, it comes up all the time. We're so"},{"startTime":1244.35,"endTime":1247.79,"body":"busy and often we lose our center, we kind of lose"},{"startTime":1247.79,"endTime":1251.31,"body":"ourself in all of the tasks that women carry,"},{"startTime":1251.39,"endTime":1255.03,"body":"all of the responsibilities. So we practice"},{"startTime":1255.03,"endTime":1258.87,"body":"stillness. We have a time of stillness to allow women to just connect, to"},{"startTime":1258.87,"endTime":1262.67,"body":"just feel their body, to come back to their breath,"},{"startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1266.29,"body":"to notice what is, is stirring, what are their"},{"startTime":1266.29,"endTime":1270.09,"body":"aches, what are their longings, what are their desires. And"},{"startTime":1270.09,"endTime":1273.45,"body":"then there's an opportunity for the women to connect"},{"startTime":1273.45,"endTime":1277.29,"body":"authentically with other women in the circle as well as"},{"startTime":1277.37,"endTime":1280.97,"body":"partners, partner shares. So"},{"startTime":1281.05,"endTime":1283.93,"body":"it's. And this is not psycho education."},{"startTime":1285.05,"endTime":1288.89,"body":"I don't do lecture or teaching. I introduce topics"},{"startTime":1289.21,"endTime":1292.85,"body":"that we can explore together. What"},{"startTime":1292.85,"endTime":1296.55,"body":"types of topics? Well, last"},{"startTime":1296.79,"endTime":1299.03,"body":"month we explored control."},{"startTime":1300.39,"endTime":1304.15,"body":"And what is it in our lives that we try to"},{"startTime":1304.15,"endTime":1307.91,"body":"control or what is it that we wish we could control?"},{"startTime":1308.47,"endTime":1312.19,"body":"And so in that, that example, you can see where we're"},{"startTime":1312.19,"endTime":1315.83,"body":"doing kind of a deep dive in terms of honestly admitting,"},{"startTime":1315.91,"endTime":1319.27,"body":"yes, there are a lot of places in my life that I try to control."},{"startTime":1319.27,"endTime":1323.07,"body":"And then we may talk about and, and what's the result of"},{"startTime":1323.07,"endTime":1326.87,"body":"that in your body, in your nervous system, in your emotions? Well,"},{"startTime":1326.95,"endTime":1330.69,"body":"I'm anxious, I'm grasping at things."},{"startTime":1332.45,"endTime":1335.89,"body":"So. So a dive into what is real."},{"startTime":1336.61,"endTime":1340.45,"body":"Let's be honest, as women, what is real in terms of"},{"startTime":1340.45,"endTime":1344.09,"body":"what, what we try to control or what do we wish we"},{"startTime":1344.09,"endTime":1347.85,"body":"could control? And then after we kind of did"},{"startTime":1347.85,"endTime":1351.69,"body":"that share, then we pondered, what would it"},{"startTime":1351.69,"endTime":1355.18,"body":"be like right now, in this moment, if I let go of control?"},{"startTime":1356.78,"endTime":1360.54,"body":"And so that's the here and now processing of right"},{"startTime":1360.54,"endTime":1364.06,"body":"now. If I imagine, and we close our eyes, imagine"},{"startTime":1364.7,"endTime":1368.54,"body":"those things that you try to control. What if right now you let go,"},{"startTime":1368.54,"endTime":1372.3,"body":"you let go into grace. That's powerful. I find myself exhaling"},{"startTime":1372.3,"endTime":1375.82,"body":"even in kind of my bodily settling as you talked about that. And that's"},{"startTime":1375.82,"endTime":1379.3,"body":"exactly what, you know, we would share is. Oh, sigh of"},{"startTime":1379.3,"endTime":1382.38,"body":"relief. Yeah. Oh, I feel the weight roll off my back."},{"startTime":1383.85,"endTime":1386.81,"body":"So, because I've known you for so long. I know this is not your approach,"},{"startTime":1387.05,"endTime":1390.89,"body":"but this is not a group where people say, you know, I'm"},{"startTime":1390.89,"endTime":1394.37,"body":"struggling with control. And you or anybody is going to say, well, Jesus wants you"},{"startTime":1394.37,"endTime":1398.05,"body":"to let go of that control because that's sin. Right? So. But what"},{"startTime":1398.05,"endTime":1401.81,"body":"I'm hearing is that this is a group in a circle where"},{"startTime":1401.81,"endTime":1405.37,"body":"women can be guided to come home to themselves"},{"startTime":1405.37,"endTime":1409.05,"body":"and out of that connection to themselves be connected to other"},{"startTime":1409.05,"endTime":1412.61,"body":"women authentically. Absolutely. And that is what"},{"startTime":1412.61,"endTime":1416.33,"body":"equals a sense of intimacy and belonging and"},{"startTime":1416.33,"endTime":1419.37,"body":"connectedness. And again, I'm not alone"},{"startTime":1420.01,"endTime":1423.77,"body":"because the pain. Anytime a woman does share her pain in a circle"},{"startTime":1423.77,"endTime":1427.129,"body":"and we have short check ins, it's my pain,"},{"startTime":1427.93,"endTime":1431.29,"body":"her pain is my pain. I can completely identify and"},{"startTime":1431.29,"endTime":1435.13,"body":"relate. So there is this sense of encouragement and support that"},{"startTime":1435.13,"endTime":1438.85,"body":"happens just in hearing another"},{"startTime":1438.85,"endTime":1442.52,"body":"woman's authentic share. This reminds me so much"},{"startTime":1442.52,"endTime":1446.2,"body":"about what we actually do in intensives. Obviously there's a different way that it"},{"startTime":1446.2,"endTime":1449.76,"body":"plays out over two weeks versus I think the 90 minutes or"},{"startTime":1449.84,"endTime":1453.56,"body":"two hours of your group. But it's this idea that we're"},{"startTime":1453.56,"endTime":1457.36,"body":"not focusing on behavior primarily. We're allowing the behaviors"},{"startTime":1457.36,"endTime":1460.88,"body":"and the external struggles to lead us into our interior"},{"startTime":1460.96,"endTime":1464.48,"body":"world and space and to pay attention to our body"},{"startTime":1465.04,"endTime":1468.52,"body":"and to listen to what those things are telling us. And when we get into"},{"startTime":1468.52,"endTime":1472.31,"body":"that calm space or deep into the window of tolerance as we speak"},{"startTime":1472.62,"endTime":1476.42,"body":"about that, then there's this capacity to let go. And if"},{"startTime":1476.42,"endTime":1480.26,"body":"we connect to our truest self, there's actually, generally speaking, a desire"},{"startTime":1480.26,"endTime":1483.58,"body":"to let go. And if we do that in a group where we feel safe,"},{"startTime":1483.58,"endTime":1487.38,"body":"there's even more likelihood that that's going to happen. Yeah, and there's"},{"startTime":1487.38,"endTime":1490.98,"body":"a synergy. You know, when you have a group setting, there's always a"},{"startTime":1490.98,"endTime":1494.82,"body":"synergy. So while one woman's pain is all of our"},{"startTime":1494.82,"endTime":1497.74,"body":"pain, we step into grief together."},{"startTime":1498.38,"endTime":1501.7,"body":"But her, her joy"},{"startTime":1502.26,"endTime":1505.62,"body":"is also our joy or her share around."},{"startTime":1506.82,"endTime":1510.42,"body":"This is what I'm taking with me tonight because we'll also check out"},{"startTime":1510.58,"endTime":1514.34,"body":"with what is your takeaway. And sometimes the takeaways are so"},{"startTime":1514.34,"endTime":1517.94,"body":"profound because there has been a shift in that group"},{"startTime":1517.94,"endTime":1521.58,"body":"session that then it ignites the fire"},{"startTime":1521.58,"endTime":1525.06,"body":"under all of us. Oh, it's possible, it's possible"},{"startTime":1525.85,"endTime":1529.57,"body":"to shift, it's possible to change. So very"},{"startTime":1529.57,"endTime":1533.09,"body":"powerful, the group, the community. Because I don't think we're meant to"},{"startTime":1533.09,"endTime":1536.89,"body":"heal in isolation. I think we need the"},{"startTime":1536.89,"endTime":1540.37,"body":"community to heal. But we're wounded in relationships. We have to heal in"},{"startTime":1540.37,"endTime":1543.61,"body":"relationships, we. Have to heal in relationships. But there's so many"},{"startTime":1543.85,"endTime":1547.65,"body":"positives and benefits to the group. I"},{"startTime":1547.65,"endTime":1550.65,"body":"imagine that a woman who is in therapy"},{"startTime":1551.85,"endTime":1555.69,"body":"could do this only. And because it's once a month, there's not a huge"},{"startTime":1555.69,"endTime":1559.31,"body":"time commitment. But somebody could be in therapy, therapy on a regular basis and this"},{"startTime":1559.31,"endTime":1563.15,"body":"could be a way to supplement that or to enrich that. Absolutely."},{"startTime":1563.15,"endTime":1566.79,"body":"Especially if a therapist is not oriented, as"},{"startTime":1566.79,"endTime":1570.47,"body":"many are not to experiential work where you're in the moment and"},{"startTime":1570.47,"endTime":1573.83,"body":"paying attention to the body and that kind of thing. Yep, absolutely."},{"startTime":1574.39,"endTime":1578.03,"body":"So who would be the best fit for these Essence"},{"startTime":1578.03,"endTime":1581.35,"body":"Circles? Who's the kind of person that would come to this group and go,"},{"startTime":1581.43,"endTime":1584.95,"body":"yeah, this fits for me. I have a woman who's been"},{"startTime":1584.95,"endTime":1588.67,"body":"communicating that regularly because she's so blown away by the"},{"startTime":1588.67,"endTime":1592.29,"body":"groups. She was hungry for realness."},{"startTime":1592.61,"endTime":1596.05,"body":"Just, I want to be someplace where I can be real."},{"startTime":1596.21,"endTime":1599.49,"body":"I can be real. I can let down my"},{"startTime":1599.65,"endTime":1603.41,"body":"Personas. I don't have to hold it together. I don't have to lead."},{"startTime":1603.41,"endTime":1606.73,"body":"I don't have to be the person that I have to be in the rest"},{"startTime":1606.73,"endTime":1610.49,"body":"of my life. I want to be able to talk about what is"},{"startTime":1610.49,"endTime":1614.33,"body":"true and real in my journey, in my heart, in"},{"startTime":1614.33,"endTime":1617.32,"body":"my soul. So women who are hungering for that."},{"startTime":1618.99,"endTime":1622.51,"body":"Absolutely. Or, or hungering for"},{"startTime":1622.67,"endTime":1626.51,"body":"a break from the routine or"},{"startTime":1626.51,"endTime":1630.35,"body":"all of the demands, because this time in this circle is"},{"startTime":1630.35,"endTime":1634.07,"body":"for them. It's not for their kids, it's not for their husband, it's not"},{"startTime":1634.07,"endTime":1637.71,"body":"for their jobs, it's not for their parents, you know, it's for"},{"startTime":1637.71,"endTime":1640.67,"body":"them. It's completely focused on them"},{"startTime":1641.23,"endTime":1644.24,"body":"and them getting back in touch with, with, with"},{"startTime":1644.48,"endTime":1648.08,"body":"themselves. And ultimately their truest"},{"startTime":1648.24,"endTime":1651.96,"body":"essence, that I believe is gold made"},{"startTime":1651.96,"endTime":1655.44,"body":"in the image of God. So"},{"startTime":1655.52,"endTime":1659.24,"body":"yeah, or women just hungry for community and they don't have"},{"startTime":1659.24,"endTime":1663.0,"body":"a circle. I think we all need, I think women especially all"},{"startTime":1663.0,"endTime":1666.76,"body":"need a circle of some sort where, where we can be"},{"startTime":1666.76,"endTime":1669.98,"body":"seen and loved on and accepted and"},{"startTime":1669.98,"endTime":1673.3,"body":"respected. So women just hungry for that."},{"startTime":1673.78,"endTime":1677.06,"body":"And so how can women find out about the Essence"},{"startTime":1677.06,"endTime":1680.42,"body":"Circles? I believe there's website information. I believe there is."},{"startTime":1681.3,"endTime":1684.98,"body":"So yeah. Restoringthesoul.com under resources."},{"startTime":1685.379,"endTime":1688.98,"body":"If you pick resources, there will be another selection for"},{"startTime":1688.98,"endTime":1692.58,"body":"Essence Circles. We're working on updating that and providing more"},{"startTime":1692.58,"endTime":1696.42,"body":"information. So if, if they want"},{"startTime":1696.42,"endTime":1700.06,"body":"more information, they can contact me is the best"},{"startTime":1700.06,"endTime":1703.5,"body":"way. And they can contact you through the website?"},{"startTime":1703.5,"endTime":1707.02,"body":"Yep. Okay, so that's restoringthesoul.com. go to the upper right"},{"startTime":1707.02,"endTime":1710.34,"body":"corner where there's all those pull down menus typically. And under"},{"startTime":1710.34,"endTime":1714.1,"body":"resources it'll say Essence Circles. So Janelle,"},{"startTime":1714.1,"endTime":1717.54,"body":"thank you for sharing today. From fishing in"},{"startTime":1717.54,"endTime":1721.3,"body":"Alaska and almost catching a 14 foot halibut to"},{"startTime":1721.3,"endTime":1725.06,"body":"talking about this amazing group that you're doing for women. Thank"},{"startTime":1725.06,"endTime":1725.34,"body":"you."}]}