Hi
everybody, it's Michael. Welcome to the Restoring the Soul podcast. Today is a special episode, and then I'm talking with two dear friends of mine who I will introduce in just a minute. The reason we're having this conversation, these special friends, is because the Restoring the Soul men's intensive weekend, that's about, oh, just about four weeks away from right now, we typically sell this out two to three months in advance of the actual event. And we currently have seven spots open. So we are just doing a fun conversation to let men know if they have not heard about the Restoring the Soul Men's Intensive or to let women know. And if there's a man in your life that needs to be at this weekend or who would benefit from the Restoring the Soul Men's Intensive, encourage you to pass this podcast along. So with no further ado, let me welcome my two friends. Brian, welcome all the way from California. Thank you. And Matt, great to be with you too. Welcome from Arkansas. Thanks, Michael. I love seeing you guys at the men's event where you both now staff. You are a significant part of the staff that helps to run this weekend, both logistically and clinically. By the way, we like to say that this is not a retreat. It's not a men's retreat. It's a therapeutic weekend where men are going to get 66 hours of intensive focus around getting their heart back, healing trauma, healing shame, addressing the lies. And quite frankly, the thing that's most important to me in all this is encountering the good gospel, encountering the good news as it was really meant, that we are just deeply loved and embraced, and as men get together in the safest place that they will ever be, that they can experience a sense of being deeply known and deeply loved as they actually are, not as they should be, not as they think that they will be, you know, on a particular point in their life. So, guys, welcome. I want to just start out by asking a question. Both of you, even though your staff started out as participants on the weekend, and I remember the origin story for both of you about how you got there, but I want to just um ask you, Matt, first, tell me about your experience at the men's weekend and why did you decide to attend and what were you hoping would happen in your life?
Well, I'll start with uh why did I decide to attend? Um I attended the weekend in September of 2018. So it'll be eight years ago. I earlier that year, in January of that year, several things in my life had begun to unravel in a way that found I found myself in a counselor's office uh here in Northwest Arkansas. One of the things that he said to me, maybe after our first or second uh session, he said, Hey, here's some resources. And he I think it was like a sheet of paper and it had several books and podcasts. And he said, Hey, that first book on there, I'd really I'd I'd recommend you start there. And that was really it. And that book was your first book, Surfing for God. And one of the podcasts was the Restoring the Soul podcast at that time. And uh I started listening.
Michael John CusickWait, just a minute. So you were given by a therapist a list with surfing for God. Okay, that's that's cool. But cooler than that is the fact that it was a podcast for this podcast that you're now on because you actually came to the weekend.
MattYes. I mean, it's it's it's really incredible. I thought about that last night, actually, because I started listening to the podcast before I read the book. Um, I just started doing that. And then uh on that podcast, I remember probably a few months after listening, there was an ad. You had mentioned the men's intensive weekend. And I went back to my therapist at one of our upcoming sessions and I said, Hey, like, do you know anything about this weekend? Do you what do you what do you think about that? And actually, he had come out to the weekend, I think maybe as a guest therapist with you at one point in time. And unbeknownst to me, he had sent several guys that he counsels to the weekend. And he just said to me, He goes, I really think you should consider it. And honestly, that was like the best hard sell ever because it wasn't a hard sell. And it made me really think about like, well, I need to, I need to dig into this some more. And so I did. I signed up. That's the way I found out about it. I threw the ad, I signed up and and was set to go in September, came out for the weekend. And man, my experience was incredible. What I was looking for, Michael, honestly, when I came out there is after reading the book and having been familiar with your podcasts, I thought, man, is this possible that really there's a place like this? That maybe this idea of getting my heart back, I'd started to kind of uh hear that language and in other things I was reading. And so that's what I was really hoping, honestly. Like, man, can I really come somewhere? I had started to unpack a lot of things with uh my therapist, but I was like, can I really come to something like this and maybe even be held in some of the things I had chosen to withhold even in counseling? And that was really a hope for me. Um, there were like a few things that I had just continued to hold back. And I was like, maybe, maybe I can go there. I'll go to Colorado and who cares, I won't know anybody there. And maybe I can let go.
So I want to segue to you in a minute, Brian, but first let me just uh close a little bit of the loop on the story because not only did your therapist hand you a sheet which had this podcast and my book, and now you're on the podcast, but you're now actually a therapist and you were working in the corporate world when you went to the weekend. Tell me that story.
MattI love it. Yeah, yeah. During this whole process from January until I came out there, some things had been kind of opened up for me. And one was this idea of can reconsidering graduate school for for counseling. And so, right about the time that I came out, I think my first class, my first graduate school class, I had applied and been accepted sometime that summer. And I think my first class started the week after I came back from the weekend or somewhere around there. Wow. And yeah, I mean, uh, that kind of really supercharged the idea of like, wow, could my brokenness, could the things that I thought were absolutely uh messed up in my life be used for potential healing? And that long winding path started for me right after the weekend.
Michael John CusickIt's that's
just amazing. And so it's really cool. People are listening to this in audio. There's not going to be a video component with it, but I'm watching you on video, and you're sitting in your professional office, and in the back are your degrees and probably your license. And just how deeply, deeply touching that is to me to think back to 2018 when you were just, you know, putting your big toe in the water, and now you're uh because I know a big part of what you do is you help men recover their heart and heal from trauma and brokenness and live in this new way of freedom. So what a what a gift to be talking to you. Yeah. Thanks, Michael. Brian, let's shift to you. I remember your origin story as well, man, when when when we met, and it was a little bit of time from the time we met until you came to the weekend. Tell me about your experience at the men's weekend and what led you to attend.
BrianI first um you alluded to it, but my wife and I came for a two-week intensive at Restoring the Soul, and I thought she was crazy because she wanted to go for two weeks, and it was exactly what we needed in our marriage. And um, so after the two-week intensive that we had, I was told about the weekend, and I think it was going to be three weeks later after our two-week intensive, and I was like, there's no way. I mean, I was still like shell-shocked from doing the two-week intensive. Um, so I was like, I don't think I can do that one. But I went the following, and I think it was February 2022. I I knew I needed to go to the weekend, but I did not want to go to the weekend. I was just so scared that I mean, I was doing the work with my wife and I was doing the work personally uh through through counseling, but there was just something that I just did not want to walk into a room full of men and expose myself. But then as I looked at myself, I was running from everything. I was so tired. I was so exhausted, I was lost, and that just the amount of shame I was carrying, and I didn't know any of that because I just kept putting on a front to everybody. Everything's okay. Just keep accumulating, keep achieving. But there was just this little, I don't know, just nudging in my heart that was like, I really need to do something difficult. And I think that means I need to go to Colorado and I need to go to the weekend. And I don't know what the weekend's gonna be like, but I know that I need it. And uh, so I went.
Michael John CusickWhat
did you encounter when you got there? Having had the intensive experience and knowing that you were still in this place of I don't want to drop my mask. What did you encounter when you got there? And Matt, I'll be asking you the same question in a minute.
BrianYeah, I I remember like we were supposed to report at like four o'clock, and I got there at 3.59. That's how how how how terrified I was. And I pulled into the parking lot and uh I just knew that that it's it's it's time. I was really scared. Um, I was nervous. And uh, but what I experienced when I got out of the car was a gentleman just standing outside greeting me. And then as I as I registered and they took my phone and I was able to unplug from my outside world, I just experienced a calm and a peace that I haven't experienced before. And you're sitting in a room of 30 other men who are going to go through the program as well. And uh, as you kind of look around, you start to realize that I think we're all very much alike. And yet we don't even know it because I don't know their stories and they don't know my story. And uh somebody said to me that this will be the safest place you will ever come in your life. And in the back of my mind, I was like, there's no way. You know, that's that sounds great. Put that in the brochure. And from the minute we started in the main group and then broke off into soul groups, I just knew something was completely different than I've ever experienced at a church men's retreat, um, at a small group outing or what. It was just intentional and absolutely accepting and loving. So those are the two things that I just noticed right off the bat.
Michael John CusickAnd
Matt, what about you? What did you experience? Uh I I know that you're not gonna go, well, I don't know what retreat he was attending or what what event he was attending. See, I just called it a retreat. It's so habitual because that wasn't the case with me, but I actually think it was the case. Let's hear your side.
MattWell, I was in the airport before I flew to Denver, and I um I got really anxious and really scared. I didn't know what I was going to. Something funny happened that I'll talk about in a minute. But I, for the first and only time in my life, I reached out personally to my therapist. Like I never personally sent an email or text, and I said, Hey man, dude, I'm I'm in the airport and I'm I'm just like scared. I don't know what's going on. And he just replied and said, Hey, listen, that's okay, but I promise you you're going to a very safe place. I I know these men and I I you need to trust me and you can trust them. So that eased some of my anxiety. I got there and was met by Trip out in the parking lot, um, which was such a gentle experience, um, but was he holding a space that I was not aware of at that point in time. It it was like I was being met with a like almost a firm love. I knew that this guy meant love and and and had that for me. At the same time, I knew immediately at that moment when I was met in the parking lot, I'm somewhere different. This is not the men's like cookout weekend. Um, I couldn't put my finger on it. And then the experience that really honestly just really grounded me that I was in the right place was when I met the man at the front door who who welcomed me to the weekend. And it was, it was uh such uh an experience to feel that presence and what he had to say and how he welcomed me to the weekend that I was like, okay, whatever's ahead, I'll do it.
Michael John CusickI'm hearing that um that that experience disarmed you, both Kevin Tripp, who's this big bear of a man and just just tenderhearted and and
very, very safe to it was probably Peter at the front door or someone, someone like Peter in that role. And there's a kindness and a safety and a welcome, but most of all, every man being vulnerable with his own story that is disarming all of the defenses and the masks that we carry. You know, as both of you talk, I'm so struck by the universality of how, as men, no matter how successful we are, no matter how many degrees we have, no matter, you know, how good looking we are, uh, no matter who our friends are, that we all live with this sense that at any moment we're going to be found out, and that that being found out and being known is not going to be a good thing. And yet, the way that God created us, the way that God created the masculine soul is for us to live free, we must be known. And I can sure relate to you guys. I mean, I I have stories probably going back about a month of being in an airport and flying somewhere, you know, to participate in a program and just wondering, I wonder what this is going to be like. So I appreciate you sharing that. And anybody who's thinking about the weekend, this is a place where you can be known and where you will be seen and not judged. You know, we use all these phrases in the Christian world, but like where you'll be loved, where you'll be embraced. And as as these guys said, our Restoring the Soul Men's Weekend will be the safest place that you've ever been. I guarantee that. And by the way, guys, this is exciting. This is weekend number 22 coming up. I can't believe it. We started this at the end. No, I'm sorry, we started this in early 2013. So we've been doing this for 13 years, 22 weekends, and we've got over 600 men who have gone through this program. Really quickly, I just want to say, and both of you can comment on this because you've alluded to the fact that the men's intensive weekend with Restoring the Soul is not your typical men's retreat. This is not where you're gonna go, you know, and cook pancakes on Saturday morning and hear really four really interesting talks and sing a bunch of worship songs. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but this is gonna be an environment that's highly structured and that is not primarily a teaching weekend. It's an experiential weekend. And here's the thing as I wrote about in Sacred Attachment, every man I know believes everything that he needs to know for the rest of his life. You know, if you've been around Christianity five minutes, you've learned everything you need to know. And most of us, our left brain and our head and our intellect is filled with more information than we could possibly use, but our experience of those things is very, very small. And as Eugene Peterson said years ago to me, that Christians are spiritually thin and impoverished. So this experiential weekend is an opportunity to not just be known through sharing parts of your story and working through brokenness and trauma and experiencing healing, but it's an opportunity to experience the good news of the gospel from brothers with skin on who will be with you and walk with you through the entire weekend. So are there any other, and Brian, maybe you want to come back to this or Matt, you can go deeper. I'm just I I'm I'm thinking about the man who's listening to this podcast, and he's still in that place of, Matt, I heard your story about, you know, yeah, I don't think I want to do that. What other hesitations did you have about going to a weekend like this? Anything from the fact that, you know, you couldn't just get in the car and drive an hour, you had to get on a plane and fly to Colorado to other hesitations that you had?
BrianI I think my first hesitation just was like it was just gonna be another men's retreat, right? And I've I think we've all been on a lot of those. Um, some are good and some are like routine. Um I knew that if I was gonna go, that I had to leave everything behind and throw everything that I've been carrying like at a wall. And I think that scared me. But at the same time, I knew deep down though, like I needed to do this. And uh so once I released all of that, so after you kind of go through check-in and then you you get put into a soul group, I think it was in the first six minutes, you just looked around and you thought, like, I don't know anybody here. So why am I trying to project something that I'm not? Why don't I just be Brian? And uh I was for 66 hours, I unloaded everything that I've been carrying my whole life. And it was accepted, it was celebrated. It was, I think for the first time in my life, I was really seen for exactly who I was. And on the flip side, I was able, and I'm not a real empathetic person as my wife. Um, I was able to sit. My wife did say groups are very powerful, and I didn't believe her. But as you sit in a group and somebody is sharing, and they are sharing things that they have never shared with anyone before, and they're being so raw, open, and honest that you just are able to just sit there with them. And that was the first time I actually understood what it means to hold somebody's pain, really hold it. And uh, that's something I've been working on in my life. And so it was just demonstrated to me through the weekend, and I was able to participate in that way.
Michael John CusickBrian, that's beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. And by many, many, many accounts, uh including the last weekend that you led with my uh dear friends Peter and Ian, you profoundly sit and hold people's pain in a way that is healing for them, and I know has been part of your own transformation as well. Let me ask you this, and then I'll turn back to Matt. Brian, when you said that you unloaded everything and and for the first time, you know, you let others know everything about you. What was the effect of that? Like therefore, you did that, and it wasn't just that you had a big emotional experience. There was a takeaway for you that you've continued to work out and that remains to this day. And I know that you you would be the first to say that you're not perfect and you're still working on your issues, but what's been the net effect, if we can say it in business terms, of you experiencing the weekend and how you showed up so fully that that weekend?
BrianI think for the first time in my life, I said, I am not okay. I and that's okay. I was able just to bear my true soul and say for the first time, I am not okay. Yeah. And and my group was able to go. None of us are okay. We're all a hot mess. Yeah. And and because of that, um, so I think that was like a real, real turning point. And then also I think I learned that it's okay to say you're not okay. It's okay to say, I need help. I'm sure I've done that before, but this was really the first time that I was able to just be okay with that.
Michael John CusickSo Yeah, and and because I know your story, I know how true this is for you, and it's true for many men. But when you can say in the presence of other brothers who really have your back, I'm not okay, that's like laying down a 500-pound backpack that you've just become accustomed to wearing, and you just think this is as good as it gets. I'm gonna carry this the rest of my life. I'm gonna try to pick up some nuggets along the way, you know, that will maybe give me a little taste of the good Christian life. But but this is really as good as it gets. I'm so, so, so, so grateful for you sharing that. Matt, what would what was the big takeaway for you as you attended the weekend?
MattI I'll just piggyback on one thing that that um that Brian said uh when he said, you know, men that bearing bearing their soul that haven't haven't told anybody these things, that's probably the number two comment behind this is the safest place I've ever been, is and now having led groups for for years there, that's probably the biggest comment I hear from the group, whether it's someone that's 22 or I've had guys in my group that were 62. And it is amazing how many men come to the weekend and choose that place to say, I've never told anybody this.
Michael John CusickYeah. Yeah.
MattUm, and that that that was my experience. I mean, that was my experience. There were things I had gone up to certain lines, and and and then some things I was like,
I'm just not ever gonna talk about that. Yeah. And in my soul group, I found the place to do it. And the biggest hesitancy I had uh about about it was is am I gonna? I didn't have the language for this at the time, but it was the thought of are people gonna try to fix me? Right. That was the thought I had. Am I gonna go to this thing? And people are going to try to fix me and tell me, like, man, that was the last thing that happened in my soul group. I was held and respected and listened to in a way that people just honored what I had to say without saying, oh, now go do these three things or check in with this person or have you tried this or that? And that had never happened to me before. Every other time I'd gotten close to vulnerability or openness or tried that, it had been met with resistance or with like, hey, you need to do these things first.
Michael John CusickYeah, which completely misses your heart. And it's exhausting. And anybody who comes to the weekend, they pretty much tried all those things and know
knows that that's not not going to work.
MattYeah.
Michael John CusickAnd I know both of you guys are out from underneath that heavy weight of performance Christianity, of trying to win God's affection. So you guys have actually become friends. You live in two different states. Brian, you you live near the Great Lakes in the Midwest. And Matt, you live in the South in the Ozarks or near the Ozarks. I'm being a little bit discreet here so that you don't get people showing up on your doorstep. And just for discretion and confidentiality as well, because this is just a first name basis conversation. You guys have alluded to this, but you attended the weekend, and then at different points in time, you both started coming back to staff as volunteers at the weekend. There's 30 participants, but what men don't know even until like halfway through the weekend is that it takes 25 men, in addition to myself, to run this weekend. And you guys have been a part of that. Talk about why you come back to staff and volunteer it, and talk about how your relationship has evolved just as brothers and how you kind of live in this iron-sharpening iron way. I'll take a stab.
BrianI will, I will clean dishes. I don't care what it is. I just want to participate in the transformation of helping men, you know,
um finalize this journey that they're on, help them serve them in any way. And what I've gotten out of that is which I didn't realize was is the staff that I do work with, when you show up after traveling from the Great Lakes, um, you walk into the room and you see almost the same guys who are staffing the weekend twice a year. And it is a band of brothers that the minute you walk in the door, everybody just stops for a moment and they call out your name. And then you just go around in a circle and you hug everybody, and you just look them in the eye, and it's like, it's so good to see you. And you just go around and everybody experiences that. And then also just to piggyback on it, is uh we're not best friends with every staff member. I mean, that's that's fair. How can you be? Um, but you know, Matt and I have never served together, and yet we have developed a friendship and we voice memo once a week. Sometimes it goes a little bit longer. And these are nine-minute voice memos that we send to each other, and they are deep and they're quirky and they're funny. And it is so great to get a voice memo from Matt. You know, you're in your car and you get to hit play and you just get to hear him talk and share things, and you just want to like respond right away, right? So um, I have that with a you know a few people, and uh, it's really, really neat.
Michael John CusickSo it goes without saying, but there's a real community that has developed. And again, there's over 600 men, and not all of those
men are still involved in the community, but there's a real community that's developed amongst the staff brotherhood, and we now have a post-weekend alumni weekend that one of our staff just initiated and called me up and said, Hey, I'm gonna do this. And they just did their second one. They did one a year ago in the summer. And there are men from all over the country that uh do that. And there's a there's a gentleman, uh, I won't say his name, but I did an intensive with him probably eight or nine years ago. We've talked a couple of times since then. He came to the men's weekend before the pandemic, and he was just part of the men's alumni weekend. Somebody said, Oh, so-and-so was there. And I my heart just leapt thinking about him. And all these years later, he's part of that weekend. Matt, I'll get to you in a second about your comments about your friendship with Brian, but I I before I um ask that question, I know I'll forget if I don't bring this up. Another big part of the weekend itself is 66 hours from a Thursday night at roughly 5 p.m. till 12 noon on Sunday. I think that's 66 hours for those that are math nerds. Please don't email me and say it's only 63 or something like that. But Brian, you're part of this. We have for every participant who comes to the weekend, there is a built into the cost of the weekend, it's a 12-week aftercare program. Because remember, this isn't a retreat, it's a therapeutic experience. You're getting therapy led by licensed therapists or trained therapists in your group under my direct supervision. And when the weekend's over, it's not over. Starting the very week after, you'll jump onto a Zoom call, and there's usually out of the twenty the 30 men, there's uh 20-something of those men. And every week you'll have check-ins and there will be video resources and curriculum that will take you through that. But it's a way for that brotherhood to continue so that the change that happens on the weekend can be lasting. And so the transformation is about just becoming and not having, you know, an experience like everybody went to camp and wasn't that fun. It's really something I'll let you comment, Matt, and then Brian be thinking. I'd like you to make a couple comments on even how you've been impacted by the aftercare as you've men seen men participate. Matt, tell me how you guys connected as friends and you know, your experience staffing.
MattMy experience staffing, um, you know, I started coming out um in 2019 as part of the work crew and kind of ended up doing the chief
of staff stuff for you for the weekend for a couple of years. And then when I finished school, uh got licensed and um started uh serving as one of the staff therapists for the weekend. And the reason why I am so thrilled when I get the email about staffing each and every time is because for me, it is a reminder, honestly. Every time I go, it's like I cannot believe like it is just a reminder of what happened for me personally there. And then at the end of every session, and you both have witnessed it, when we say goodbye and the way we end the weekend, I cry every time. And I'm not generally that much of a crier. And I just and the thought floods my my emotions of I cannot believe I get to do this. I I cannot believe that I get get be a part of this. Um, and watching real change happen and just it's just it's uh very overwhelming for me. And I literally, I I go back to be reminded of that um every time. And and I have I have been reminded every single weekend I've been out there of what God's done in my life and just getting to see it in others. Yeah, Brian and I connected over the weekend and um have just stayed in touch. And and it just started with some calls and voice memos. And now, I mean, it is a frequent thing. And and here's the here's the thing that I would say that I love about connecting with Brian. I will drop the ball in this in this relationship between us, I drop the ball more frequently as far as not responding back in a timely manner. And Brian will, he will jokingly but very lovingly say, Hey, dude, I love you. Man, like I want to be in friendship and community with you, and I haven't heard from you. And honestly, and then he'll make a joke and then he'll say, And honestly, I just miss connecting with you. I want to hear from you. Yeah, man, it is like I'm not in trouble. There's no shame. There's like, it's all invitation to just connect. And that has stayed alive now for a couple of years.
Michael John CusickWow. And isn't it amazing? I used to be kind of a cynic and skeptical about whether it's a Zoom session doing therapy
with somebody or whether it's just like voice texting with uh my guy friends and brothers. That's not real relationship. And yet it is. And Matt, you were so kind recently, you sent me, I think about two weeks ago, a little less than that, a beautiful, beautiful voice text where, you know, when I looked at it, you see the size of it. It's like, oh my goodness, this is 30 minutes long. And I just think it ended up being like five minutes long. And but it was so wonderful to hear your voice, and you have such a gift, which doesn't surprise me at all because you're a therapist and a good communicator, but such a gift of just sharing your heart. And in particular, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little emotional here on the mic, you were you just felt led to share with me what I've meant to you in your life. And I will go back and listen to that 10 times, probably in the next month or two. And so what I just want to say is thank you for that. But more than that, to both of you guys, and and I know you give a hearty amen with this, is that as men, we are created to be unashamed, passionate lovers of people. And not just in the sexual sense, you know, as lovers, you know, we're gonna be passionate sexually. That's where things get broken down and where we get wounded and where we wound others. But we actually learn to become powerful and passionate lovers of people, and if we're married, of our wife or our partner, as we learn to be loved and learn to love our brothers. So if a man's listening to this, and if you're in a relationship where you have gotten feedback, like I have, like we all have, of hey, you've got some work to do. And if you are wondering how to do that, where to begin, uh, the Restoring the Soul men's intensive weekend is an amazing place to come. And we do this twice a year, but the next one's coming up in
just under four weeks. Here's some of the details. It's in Monument, Colorado. We take over a big old bed and breakfast right between Colorado Springs and Denver. It's on 42 wooded acres with a stunning view of Pikes Peak, where you'll wake up every morning and see this unobstructed view of Pikes Peak, uh, one of the tallest mountains in Colorado. As I said, there's there's 30 participants, there's 25 staff men, and this is an opportunity for you to be known. It's really an opportunity for your heart to be set free. Because I it's not just because I know you two, but the sum of everything that I've heard you say is that you've experienced real freedom in your hearts to be who you are and to actually bring that into relationship with your wives, with your kids, uh, into your vocation and all the different parts of your life. Anything else that you'd want to say, just to wrap up to the man that's listening, thinking, hey, this sounds too good to be true, and you know, should I go?
BrianI would say um, I think one of the beauties of the weekend is that, you know, you completely unplug, uh, which allows you the freedom just
to work on yourself. Same time, we don't share what we do at the weekend. So, you know, a lot of us go to if you're in ministry, a lot I'm I'm sure a lot of the pastors all go to pastor conferences and business people go to business things. Um, I thought that was so freeing to not discuss what we do, you know, for our vocations, because that just allowed everybody just to be all in the same uh playing field. So um, yeah, uh I would I would encourage any man who's who's listening to this right now, who is tired, who is exhausted, who has 19 balls up in the air and just keeps grinding and grinding and white knuckling it. You are going to crash, and there is a place where you will be accepted and you will be set free, and that's in Colorado. And and so do yourself a favor. I know you think you can't allow yourself to take off four days or you know, 66 hours, but it will be the best 66 hours you have spent in a long time. And it's something that you probably have never experienced yourself. So I would encourage you to take the risk and uh come out and uh see what we're about.
MattMatt, close us out, brother. Yeah. Well, I'll I'll hit on the thing that's the most obvious for a lot of men, and that is they they they look at it and say, is it worth
it? Is the cost worth it? You know, they look at the then say, man, I don't, I don't know. And I'd say, I have never once. And and this is yes, it literally changed the trajectory of my life. And that doesn't happen for, you know, in that way, like in a career way for everyone, of course. But even if that wouldn't have happened, just what happened for me leaving and believing that I am lovable, worth loving, that I was seen in a way that I haven't been, I I cannot. I've I literally cannot think of a number that I would put on that. And I have never once looked back and thought, that was too much for me. You know, that I shouldn't have done, I shouldn't have done that. I mean, it was just a phenomenal experience and and absolutely the cost was well worth it from the level of the staff and the training that the staff has to the accommodations to just what will happen in your heart there. Um, I can unequivocally vouch for that. And I have helped fund people to go. That's I just love I I love it. Um, I can't say enough about that.
Michael John CusickMatt and Brian, I can't say enough uh about how grateful I am that you guys took the time, literally with less than 24 hours notice. Because I've been traveling, I've been on the road for 13
days when I came back and realized, hey, we have seven spots left and we're a month out. I want to I want to help those men find out about this weekend and help them to get there. So here's the information. The website is restoring the soul weekend.com. Our main website is restoring the soul.com, but the weekend website is restoring the soul weekend. All the information you need is there. There's a request information button. Uh, you can register there, you can pay. Everything you need to know is at restoring the soulweekend.com. Guys, thank you so much for this, and I can't wait to see you. It's gonna be awesome. Thanks, Michael. Appreciate it. So we've wrapped up another episode of Restoring the Soul. We want you to know that Restoring the Soul is so much more than a podcast. In fact, the heart of what we have done for nearly 20 years is intensive counseling. When you can't wait months or years to get out of the rut you're in, our intensive counseling programs in Colorado allow you to experience deep change in half day blocks over two weeks. To learn more, visit restoring the soul.com. That's restoring the soul dot com.