Episode 393 - Safe and Secure: Attachment Styles, Boundaries, and Spiritual Healing

Welcome back to Restoring the Soul with Michael John Cusick. In this episode, Michael John Cusick and AJ Denson continue their exploration of the “four S’s” of attachment—seen, soothed, safe, and secure—focusing today on the final S: secure. Together, they dive into the meaning of secure attachment, both psychologically and spiritually, and how it’s reflected in our relationships with God and others.

Drawing on personal experiences, biblical narratives, and insights from attachment theory, Michael explains how secure attachment is foundational to human flourishing and to our sense of inner peace—even in life’s most challenging moments. They discuss the difference between secure and insecure attachment, the impact of technology on connection, and what it means to be loved by God in both our strength and vulnerability.

Transcript

Michael John Cusick 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to yet another episode of Restoring the Soul. I'm Michael John Cusick and I'm with AJ Denson. Hi, AJ. Hello, good to be back. Yes, we're working through the four S's, and today we may just uh cross down the home stretch and across the finish line. We've talked about scene, then sued, then safe, and today we're talking about secure. Have I got that right?

AJ Denson 0:27

Yes, the final S, the final challenge. Um so excited to talk about it. There's so many good things about it. Um I'd love to kick it off with you if you could talk about uh the different types of attachment.

Michael John Cusick 0:39

So there are two kinds of attachment, and people who are familiar with attachment might go, wait, that's not right. People will probably be most familiar with attachment styles, and there's four that are there, and then the conversation is over. But on a macro level, and I'm gifted at uh macro and 30,000-foot views, if uh anything, attachment is really broken down into secure and insecure attachment. And it's interesting because people are like, oh, talk about attachment styles. I want to know if I'm anxious or avoidant or disorganized or ambivalent. And we're not gonna go into that here. That's a whole separate episode. Um, however, I want to talk about secure. And there's an old uh illustration when I was uh a new Christian uh that I remember hearing this about the truth of God's word and the truth of who God is, and somebody said that in the FBI, counterfeit specialists never actually look at counterfeit bills because it's a waste of time. There's an infinite number of counterfeit bills. Uh what they do is they spend all of their time looking at real bills, at the genuine article, if you will. And they're so familiar with what a real bill looks like in every denomination, every coin, etc., that, you know, blindfolded, they can probably touch, smell, and know just the texture of a counterfeit bill. So we're gonna actually look at the genuine article today. We're gonna talk about secure attachment. And the reason for that is it's compelling. It's something that can awaken a hunger inside of us. And ultimately, uh Jesus said in Matthew chapter five, verse three in the Beatitudes, he said, Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. That word righteousness, both in the Hebrew and in the Greek, is not a moral kind of righteousness where I'm not sinning. It includes that, but it's really a sense of blessed are those who hunger and thirst for right relationships. That's what righteousness means. Said another way, for things to be set the way they were meant to be. And this the beginning and end of everything as it was meant to be has to do with relational. So when it says, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, this is a liberal or uh not liberal in a political sense, but the a broad and liberal smathering of paraphrase. But blessed are those who hunger and thirst for secure attachment, for a sense with God, love has you, God saying to them, I've got you, for relationships where they can trust, where they can relax in the strength and the goodness and the presence and the reliability of others and the connection therein between the individual and others. So I really want to share about this because most of the conversation is around anxious attachment style, avoidant attachment style, and disorganized attachment style. We know that about 60% of Americans statistically have a secure attachment. At least that's what the research says. And anybody who's heard me on the podcast before will know that I believe that the number is significantly less than that, especially with digital natives, of which you are one, no offense. But people that have literally grown up with social media and iPads and computers, my generation, we didn't have any of that. I think that there's a um a greater proclivity to be disconnected from others because there's a connection to technology. Now, having said that, I'm a digital immigrant, so I've I've come into the world of being connected and whatnot. But even in the dopamine hits that I get from, you know, I'm going through my morning prayers and I forgot to turn off the notifications on my phone this morning, and something comes up, and I clicked on it, and before you know it, I'm into social media and I'm reading the news, and 15 minutes goes by, and I was just completely entranced and had stopped praying. How weird is that? That is not an insecure attachment, but that is moving away literally from this place where I'm grounding myself, where I'm connected to myself, where I'm connecting to God in this trusting relationship, and then distracted and pulled away. Now, the beautiful thing was I'm familiar enough with that process in me, and I've come to be able to trust deeply enough in this secure, sacred attachment. There we are using the book title, this indivisible branch and vine kind of relationship, that I was able to, I felt frustrated. I probably felt shame would be too strong, but this kind of eye rolling, like, oh, it happened again. And then I was able to take my place in grace and be on my way. And I I picked up the prayers that I read and I started over, and then I was able to just sit in the presence of God and I finished my time. That's not a diversion from what we're talking about today. My performance in that experience of being distracted did not break the secure attachment with God. It actually illustrates it. My distraction and literally turning away from my attention with God, he didn't go anywhere. God's like the ultimate gracious host who says, I'll wait. I'm right here, I'm not going anywhere. And although I want to grow out of this compulsion and make sure my notifications are turned off, what if that was a spiritual growth moment instead of a um spiritual regression or backsliding or somehow dishonoring God's name? It's a beautiful example of it's not up to me to keep this relationship secure. God has already secured it.

AJ Denson 7:34

So then, with you know, we've talked about the four S's scene, meaning I I see you, say soothe, I've got you, see a safe, I've got this. Um it feels like when those are not there, you can have insecure attachment. So, but you're stating that with God there is no uh you are always insecure attachment. Could you elaborate a little bit on that?

Michael John Cusick 7:58

Our attachment styles, which are insecure, once again, there's an anxious presentation, there's an avoidant presentation and way of being, there's a disorganized style, which is that we go back and forth between the two. And really, where anxious and avoidant are um counterproductive ways of getting our needs met. The disorganized attachment has no idea how to get their needs met, and so they're kind of pinging back and forth. And um, earlier in my life, I believe I was a disorganized attachment, now I tend more toward anxious. Having said that, we have an experience based on our nervous system of insecurity, but in the invisible realm, in the kingdom of God, with God, there is a secure attachment. There is a sacred attachment, something that has that transcends what we experience on a human level. In other words, when Jesus was on the cross, Psalm 22, he cries out, quoting that Psalm, saying, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? His felt experience at that moment was forsakenness. There's some kind of tear here between this security of my father, who I've always known, and even the night before in the Garden of Gethsemane, as he's in agony and anguish, the scriptures tell us, and Luke tells us that he was sweating drops of blood, that there was even a secure attachment there, so secure that he could say, God, I don't want this. The child saying to the parent, No, I don't want to do that. Now, somebody might struggle and say, Oh, well, that sounds irreverent, but Jesus was the child speaking to his father, pouring out his heart, and it was his raw humanity, I don't want to do this. Take this cup from me. And then surrendering through agony, not in this spiritual moment of being uplifted and floating on a cloud, in agony, surrendering, saying, But not my will but yours, which is the child saying, I'm going to trust that you know what's best. And not out of rigidity, because I'm going to get in trouble, but because there's really no other option at this point. I'm small, I'm weak, I'm helpless. The Romans are going to kill me tomorrow. I could call down a legion of angels, but that's that's not that's not how we operate. Those are not the rules of our family, if you will, right, right, Papa, he would say to God. And as he surrenders and entrusts himself, it doesn't mean that everything's all better, but there's a security there. Now it's also interesting as I talk about the Garden of Gethsemane and moving on to the cross, that Jesus also sought to take advantage of the relationship with James and John, who were in the garden with him, and they fall asleep after he said, I need you to stay here and pray for me. You know, one of the marks of a secure attachment in any child is that we can get our needs met and get them net met without shame. So oftentimes these insecure attachment styles, AJ, have to do with not getting the needs met, not being seen, not soothed, not safe, not secure. And of course, then there's lots of other needs as well, like I talk about in surfing for God, uh, the four A's, attention, affection, affirmation, acceptance, a couple of S's of satisfaction, uh significance, and then of course security. But um the attachment with God is indivisible. That's why Jesus, after Gethsemane, after the Last Supper, I'm sorry, it was before before Gethsemane, because he went to the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper, he says, here's the nature of our relationship now. Everybody pay attention. They get up from the table and he goes outside and he says, I'm the vine and you're the branches. The most central thing that I want you to understand about our relationship is that it's secure. There's a connection there that is indivisible, that is internal. Go back to Psalm 139 and read the pre-Christ Davidic relationship where the Holy Spirit is speaking through David, and he says, Where can I go from your presence? Where can I flee from your spirit? And then he gives five different examples. If I go up to heaven, you're there, if I go to hell, you're there, if I go to the far side of the sea, you're there. Even if I hide myself in the darkness, the darkness will not be dark to you, for the night is as bright as the day. That's the nature of the secure attachment that David had with God. And when Jesus says that he's the vine and we're the branches, it seals the deal. Now, let me just say one more thing, and then I'll check back in with you. People will know in John 15, they'll say, Yeah, but it's secure, but we've got to do our part because it says that he cuts off every branch that doesn't bear fruit. And I have a podcast from way, way back with my friend Josh Hillman, who's a Somalier, and we talked about vine and branches, but there's an excellent book by my new friend Betty Dickinson, and she's been on the podcast recently, and we talked about her book called The Art of Vine Making. So I encourage anybody to go get Betty's book, The Art of Vine Making. And one of the things that she talks about there is that that phrase, he cuts off every branch that doesn't bear fruit. What we hear through the lens of judgment is that if I don't know more, do better, somehow become a good return on God's investment of Jesus, that somehow he's gonna cut me off. The most unhealthy version of that is I'm gonna go to hell. A lesser version of that might be that I'm gonna feel separation from him, or that somehow I am separated from him, that he turns away until I clean up my act. What it literally means, the Greek word there is A-E-R-O-S, eros, and that means to lift up. So the lifting up and the cutting off had to do with branches that had grown down from the vine, and they were either hanging, and the weight of that branch hanging was causing a situation so it wouldn't bear fruit, or the branch was down on the ground in the dirt, and the vinemaker would come and lift it up and cut or trim the end so that it was no longer in the dirt. In other words, it wasn't the human being that wasn't bearing fruit. It was the vine was experiencing conditions where it could not grow and thrive. And wow, is that a different perspective? It actually goes back to Jesus saying, I'm the vine and you're the branch, and I'll do anything so that you bear fruit of becoming who you are, so that you can experience and overflow with love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. That's the fruit. And we think of fruit as, ooh, I need to lead X number of people to Jesus, or I need to have a successful uh worship service, or my Bible study needs to be growing, you know, and doubling every year in size, or my church needs to be bigger, or I need to somehow be doing more in service. And if I don't have enough fruit there, then God's going to cut me off. It's all about not production of our life, it's about the fruit within our soul. It's about the condition of our heart to actually um internalize and overflow with the fruit of the spirit.

AJ Denson 16:05

Wow, that is an incredible perspective. I don't know if I've ever heard that before. Um, and I just I could chew on that all day long. Um so as you've been talking about um this secure attachment within the Father, I think it's important to make the distinction of uh it's not that things are going well and that you're having a great time and being secure. There can be, you mentioned David and Jesus who both had very rocky moments in their life and their time on earth. Um and it reminds me, I guess the word I'm looking the two words I'm looking at are like inner peace and versus self-abandonment. And I'd love if you could talk about those in regards to secure attachment, not necessarily mean your life is easy and that everything you handle is super great, but yeah, I'll just I'll let you go in on that.

Michael John Cusick 16:54

Yeah, so back to this idea that secure attachment happens when our needs are basically met, that on a biological level, because seen soothed and safe, and secure attachment is a biological imperative, meaning that if those don't happen, biologically we will not develop and thrive in our nervous system, in our capacity to self-soothe and self-regulate, in our brain pathways, we will not develop the way that a human being is meant to develop. So our basic needs have to be met physically and emotionally, and I would argue spiritually, because the emotional attunement is what replicates who God is. The infant has no uh intellectual construct of who God is. To the infant, the parent or garegiver is literally mirroring God is someone who's attuned with you, who's with you, who's meeting your needs, etc. So if the needs are met, then a person can be at peace. It's difficult to be at peace if you live in an anxious body. Kurt Thompson said that God has inherited all of the same neural networks as our spouse does, or as our parent is. You know, I have two kids on the spectrum and I'm on the spectrum. And I know that if a child's body is dysregulated and activated because of something like autism spectrum disorder or a learning disability or sensory integration issues, that you can quote Bible verses all day long to that person. You can tell them to quiet down all day long, and it will have no good because the body keeps the score. The body overrides our heart. And the phrase I've been using a lot lately with people that they found helpful is that our nervous systems have not caught up with our heart. And I believe that the heart of a child, the heart of a child whose needs are met and who is well loved wants to obey, wants to follow the rules, wants to not break into the cookie jar and eat cookies if that child's needs are met. And, you know, that goes against and flies in the face of some of the old parenting wisdom that says we need to break the child's spirit and that every little two-year-old is a utterly depraved human being. No, every every um tyrannical two-year-old uh probably either has boundaries that are too rigid or too loose, and there's somehow a sense where their needs are not met, and part of what they're meant to do in this process of initiating and moving into the world and discovering is to push boundaries. And the wise parent will learn and discern through conversations and talking to your pediatrician and talking to friends and parents and grandparents and older, wiser people and reading books. How do I know what that line is between uh giving freedom to discover and initiate and having boundaries and reigning in? And as we talked about on the last episode, that has a lot to do with my own self-awareness and my own self-regulation, which is why the number one issue in parenting is can I regulate myself? That's the number one issue. And when I was a parent with young children, I was very dysregulated based on the trauma that I had, based on the mood disorders that I had. That's not making an excuse, it's just saying that that's a reality.

AJ Denson 21:17

Wow, that's great. Um, kind of pivoting a little bit, going back to the macro level, um we've talked about, again, the four S's, and on our last episode in safety, we talked about boundaries within that. And as we're talking about secure attachment with God, what does Him implementing safety and also boundaries look like in our relationship?

Michael John Cusick 21:38

Man, I love that question because this gets to the heart of God's commands. God's commands are there because they're protective. When God gave Moses the Ten Commandments up on Mount Sinai, God was saying, Here's the set of rules, if you will, for how you can be seen, soothed, safe, and secure. That didn't mean that if they broke any one of the commandments that God wouldn't see them, but their experience of being seen. So what happens when Moses is up on Mount Sinai getting the Ten Commandments? People come to Aaron and they say, Make for us a god. So make us a golden calf that we can worship. We're feeling pretty anxious. Where's Moses? He's been up on that mountain for a long time. We're starting to get a little bit insecure. We're not sure if the bad guys are going to come and get us. We're not sure if wild animals are going to get us. We're doing our best, but we need something and someone to give our heart to where we can find rest, i.e., security. Moses is our leader. Moses has the connection with God. He's basically abandoned us and he's up there doing his God thing. Moses, make us a God. And so they gather together all the gold and they make it into a golden calf. And suddenly it talks about how the people started to engage in revelry. Basically, what the text says there in Exodus is that their worship became ecstatic and passionate, and all of this energy was coming up and out of them, and there were no boundaries. It was the absence of boundaries. Moses comes down and here's the Ten Commandments. And of course, we know that the first uh five or the first four have to do with our relationship with God, and then the second half of the commandments have to do with our relationship with self and others. But the first thing God says is don't worship any other gods. How ironic! I mean, talk about a sense of humor that God has, where Moses comes down and says, Okay, you knuckleheads, you you calf worshiping fools, frankly, not said out of unkindness, but out of a diagnosis of here's actually what's going on. You all have turned away from the source of security, the rock, the fortress, the I am, and you're turning to something that you can touch, that you can um offer sacrifices to that will give you a sense of security, but there's really nothing there. And it's a great example of how fervent religious activity does not necessarily create secure attachment with God. But those commands become a protective way of living. Um, and it's interesting, make no graven image, the next command. And forgive me if they're out of order. When I was a Catholic kid, I had the Ten Commandments memorized, but make no graven image. Why did God say that? And you know, people today will say, well, that means you can't look at icons and you know, you can't put Jesus on the cross as a crucifix. Basically, once again, God was intimate and particular. Those commands were universal for all of humanity, but when Moses comes down and sees the people worshiping a calf, it's like, oh, this is why God said that. Because people will turn towards something that they can see. Rather than the temporary insecurity of trusting something you can't see, let us trust something that we can see and can touch, and therefore a golden idol. So it's security without trust. And trust can only be built when someone is seen, soothed, safe, and secure. We could also say that the Ten Commandments are the precursor for the four S's. Don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, don't covet, don't dishonor your parents. All those things are relational terms of saying if you live this way where you're not doing these things, chances are you'll be seen. Chances are you'll be soothed, you'll be safe, you'll be secure. But each of those commands, dishonoring your parents, lying, stealing, coveting, don't committing adultery, they're all ways that we turn away from the security of God and the Ten Commandments as a prescription for safety, and where we try to find a sense of security all by ourselves. Let me say one more thing and then I'll pause again. Um, many people have heard me talk about Jeremiah chapter 2, verse 13, and that's this classic passage where it's all about thirsts. And um in Jeremiah chapter 2, verses 1 through 12, there's this graphic description of God talking about the Israelites as adulteress. And there's even this very um uh, how can I say it, colorful, and if I I don't think the Bible is crass, but this image is just very striking. He describes the Israelites as a female camel up on a high hill, basically in um in mating season, showing herself off to all the other camels who will come and be fertile with that camel. Wow, what what a picture. I think the the NIV says that you're like a she camel in heat on a high hill. That's a graphic, graphic picture. And God says, here's the problem, here's why you're doing this. My people have committed two sins. They've turned from me, the spring of living water, and they have dug cisterns, broken cisterns, that can't hold water. It's exactly what happened with the golden calf, it's exactly what happened with every other sin, and it's exactly what he's describing in the earlier verses of the she camel. You're thirsty. You're thirsty. You were created with this deep, deep yearning and thirst inside of you, this longing, both biological, emotional, relational, and spiritual. And what you do is you turn away from me the source of satisfaction because I'm the living water, and you dig wells, but they're leaky wells. They can't hold water. And so, what's the thirst? What's the longing? Yes, it's for God, but it's for this indivisible, completely reliable sense of being seen, soothed, safe, and secure. And God's whole motivation all throughout the Exodus and throughout the journey in the desert was to place them in a context where they would cry out, saying, see us, soothe us, make us, keep us safe, and secure us. And they would experience that and then they would step out of it. They would experience that, they would step out of it. And so the Israelites were both anxious and avoidant in their attachment style over and over again.

AJ Denson 29:09

That is fascinating. Um I've never also never viewed the Ten Commandments as uh uh prescription for soothing and uh having secure attachment. That's super great.

Michael John Cusick 29:21

Um we could go through scripture after scripture after scripture and every other um uh prohibition, rule, and law, including in the New Testament, you know, what what they often call household codes, when Paul is prescribing things saying, put off the old self, put on the new self, or avoid this. Every one of those is a relational set of boundaries to help us thrive and to live connected, to live without shame, uh, and to be known by others.

AJ Denson 29:59

Sounds like I need to go through the whole Bible with the perspective of attachment. Um, that just sounds so great. Um earlier you were talking about vines and branches and bearing fruit. What would the fruit of a secure attachment look like?

Michael John Cusick 30:16

Let me turn to scripture for that. And it's not gonna be a it's not gonna be a verse where, you know, um first of all, I will turn to a verse. Psalm 46, 10. Be still and know that I'm God. Uh a lot of people know from the podcast and from Sacred Attachment where I tell the story, I have two tattoos. They're inside my forearms. Uh on my right arm and I'm right-handed, that's my strength, that's my power, that's my capability. I have two words, be still, taken from Psalm 46, 10. In my strength, power, and capability, I always have to be um attuned and aware of where my strength is like those Israelites in Jeremiah 2, getting a shovel and digging a well. For my own ambitions and strategies of survival and trying to get my needs met, that can almost always be active. And I've got to be still and know that he's God. On my left arm is my vulnerability because I'm left, I'm right-handed. It's my weakness, it's where I have limitations. Um, and it says, be loved. So what a secure attachment looks like as we begin to practice this and build and receive a secure attachment is to be still in the places where we would strive and grasp and reach for life apart from God, and to be loved in the places where we feel ashamed, where we feel inadequate, unworthy, where we do have profound vulnerability or need. So that's kind of what it looks like. Now, you will have heard this story before from the men's weekend. I've been walking through the Gospel of John, and in every single story, asking the question, what does secure attachment look like? And what is it that Jesus offers? And in every story so far, with every character, God seems to be more concerned with helping people to regulate and to connect with them before there's ever any correction of what they've done wrong or to give any direction about, you know, how to live. So let me give you an example of this. At the end of John chapter one, there's the famous story of Nathaniel. And there's one disciple who brings another disciple who brings another disciple, and I believe that it's Andrew that brings Nathaniel forward to meet Jesus. And he's the one who says, Nazareth, Jesus is from Nazareth. Can anything good come out of Nazareth? So here's this skeptic, this cynic. That's like somebody who is a uh a Lakers fan says, Cleveland, where I grew up, can anything good come out of Cleveland? I mean, the Cavaliers have had some decent teams, but their history is one of losing, and you know, Cleveland is uh is nowhere near as glamorous as uh Los Angeles, so so can anything good come out of Cleveland? That would be kind of cynical, jaded, not open. And that's how Nathaniel is. So then Jesus encounters Nathaniel, and Jesus says, Um Nathaniel, how'd you know my name? Before I saw you just now, I knew you. Or before I before I know you now, I saw you under the fig tree. And Nathaniel says, Surely you are the one from God. And what Jesus says to him is, You are a true Israelite in whom there is no deceit. Now, what's the point of this story? Jesus sees the part of him that's cynical, that's skeptical, maybe a little bit wounded, like, yeah, yeah, Andrew, I've gone down this religious route before, you know, I've heard about the latest, greatest teacher. So really, can anything good come out of Nazareth? There's this part of his heart that's shut down. And when Jesus sees him, he doesn't see the skeptic, the cynic, the doubter. He sees his heart, just like the parent sees the heart of a child and says, I get you in the scene of the four S's. And Jesus completely bypasses what everyone else would get stu ck on. And he says, I see your heart. You're a true Israelite, and in you there's no de ceit.

AJ Denson 34:48

Right.

Michael John Cusick 34:48

And true Israelite means it's not just about keeping all the laws. He's not saying you're a guy who has performed well religiously. He's saying your heart is aligned with mine and your heart is pure. You don't deceive others, you don't deceive yourself because you say things the way they are. And what Jesus has just done is he's gone below the water line and under the surface. No deceit means he doesn't BS. If he thinks that something can't come out of Nazareth that's good, he says it. Maybe he was in Enneagram eight, just being really, really direct. But what Jesus does is he sees his heart beneath that. And that's a picture of how secure attachment develops. And I bet you that Nathaniel exhaled and he could remember that moment, not just of, oh my gosh, he sees the future or he can see through time and space. But there was something inside of him that felt like he gets me. He gets me, which again is the core idea behind being seen.

AJ Denson 36:00

That's awesome. I love that. Um as we wrap up our time of talking about secure attachment, I'd love to know if, and my understanding is that you can go in between from secure and insecure attachment. Um, what is some some practical ways that someone can have some attunement with their own self and go, okay, I'm insecure or I am insecure attachment? So insecure and then two words, insecure attachment.

Michael John Cusick 36:29

Yeah, another great question, AJ. Um, so I believe that a person can have a secure attachment and experience significant dregulation and activation. So trauma, let's just say that a child has a secure attachment at five years old. And generally, we used to talk about as therapists and in child development, zero to four, if it was there by four, that it was in place. That's generally true. But if that child experiences profound trauma where they're not attended to, where they are alone, where there's no loving resource to help ground them and to soothe them, to if there's a conflict or a relational rupture to bring repair, then that can undo that secure attachment because of the nervous system. But it's not necessarily something because of the caregivers or uh the parents in those earliest years. So it remains to be determined from a uh scientific developmental perspective, from my opinion and my knowledge of the literature, if a person can actually lose secure attachment. But we know that trauma can be significant enough so that they would become dysregulated, um, activated, and move into an anxious space or an avoidant space in their attachment style. In terms of what to do about that, it really comes back to self-awareness, self-regulation. Many people are talking today about how there's a myth of self-regulation that we might close our eyes and tap or breathe or do some kind of regulation technique, but ultimately, regulation is co-regulation, and we regulate and get back into a calm, quiet, grounded place or our window of tolerance in relationship with others, ultimately. So we've wrapped up another episode of Restoring the Soul. We want you to know that Restoring the Soul is so much more than a podcast. In fact, the heart of what we have done for nearly 20 years is intensive counseling. When you can't wait months or years to get out of the rut you're in, our intensive counseling programs in Colorado allow you to experience deep change in half day blocks over two weeks. To learn more, visit restoring the soul.com. That's restoring the soul.com.