Episode 398 - Michael John Cusick, "The Temptation of Jesus and Your Attachment"

Most people assume temptation is about weakness or willpower. But the wilderness story in Matthew 4 reveals something far older — evil moves first against the places where we have not been seen, soothed, safe, and secure.

In this conversation, Michael and AJ Denson walk slowly through the baptism and temptation of Jesus, presenting them as a portrait of attachment under siege. They explore how the devil's opening accusation — if you are the Son of God — lands precisely where God's voice had just spoken identity and belonging, why hunger, loneliness, and exposure aren't just physical states but the exact conditions evil exploits, and what it means that after the ordeal, angels came and attended to him — a scene almost never preached, yet the one that puts the bow on the whole story.

This is a co-host episode from Michael's ongoing series unpacking Sacred Attachment, chapter by chapter.

Transcript

Exploring Sacred Attachment and Evil

Michael John Cusick 0:00

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Restoring the Soul podcast. I'm Michael John Cusick, and I'm talking today with A.J. Denson in Dallas. Hi, AJ. Hey, Michael. It's so fun to have these conversations with you. What's it been like for you to slowly unpack sacred attachment and conversation?

AJ Denson 0:23

I think it's been a joy just to go deeper into a book that's really changed my perspective on so many things. I also just love the conversation, and I think it it explores so many other things about the book that just a normal reading can't get. There's just conversations and deep conversations and vulnerability that's shared that I just think is so valuable. So I'm honored to do it.

Michael John Cusick 0:45

Well, we're continuing with chapter four from Sacred Attachment, and that chapter is on evil. And the opening quote before the text that I wrote is simply evil is live spelled backwards. And I told that whole story in a previous podcast. I won't go there again, but let that be the starting point for our conversation today. That when we think about evil, there's a lot of different ways to think about evil. Some people might think that it's an impersonal force. Some people may think that it's actually demonic realities. We're taking that stance. We talked about it in the previous podcast that evil is a personal evil that comes against us and the world. Luther's famous triad of the world, the flesh, and the devil. The flesh is the stuff which is inside of us, our own brokenness. The world is the set of powers and principalities and culture and everything outside of us. And then this reality of evil is that which comes against us. But specifically, the quote from Scott Peck that evil is live spelled backwards. Evil opposes all that is about life and living and proliferation and vitality and generativity and goodness and truth and beauty. On and on and on we could go. I'm almost feeling a sense of urgency today, which is why I said to you before the podcast that I really want to be uh a little less hyper than I can often be in conversation, where my mind is just firing on all cylinders and kind of ping-ponging with different ideas. And oftentimes when I'm talking fast, it's because I want to get on to the next idea. But I think it's really important to be grounded as we do this because uh this is an important conversation. In one way, it's the hinge pin in the book where we go from talking about attachment to evil and then to talking about the nature of sin. Um so let's jump in and I want to read a passage from the very end of Matthew chapter three, the Gospel of Matthew, the third chapter, literally the last two verses of that, to set up the passage

The Nature of Temptation and Identity

Michael John Cusick 3:00

in Matthew chapter four, one through eleven that we all know so well, the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness. And my point here today, AJ, and I'll stop after I read this passage and just ask you what stands out. But the point here is to talk about how every temptation and the goal of evil is to take advantage of our human longings and our human needs to be seen, soothed, safe, secure. And by way of review, when a human being is seen, soothed, safe, and secure from birth onward, that's how a human being learns to trust. That's how a human being learns that vulnerability is a good thing and not a bad thing. That's how a human being learns that dependency is a good thing, and that sets the ball on the T, if you will, for our relationship with God. So the degree to which we've not been seen sooth, safe, and secure will not just affect how we relate on a horizontal level in human relationships, it actually affects how we relate with God, as Kurt Thompson says that God inherits all the same neural networks that all the people around us do. So this passage is uh maybe for some people a very unexpected passage to look at the idea of attachment. So in Matthew chapter three, the last two verses are the story of Jesus' baptism, and here's what the text says. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him, and a voice from heaven said, This is my son, whom I love, with him I am well pleased. And then you turn the page and you go to Matthew chapter four, and here's the story of the temptation. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. Big idea that I want people to catch there is that before the temptation, here's this often overlooked idea that God the Father, it's as if he's saying, I want to establish you. I want to make absolutely certain that I am proclaiming to you Jesus, my son, and in front of all of the people gathered there with John, Jesus' cousin, and everybody else, the Jews, the Gentiles that are watching what's happening, it's as if God is saying, I want everyone to know, but mostly Jesus, I want you to know that I love you, you are my son, and with you I am well pleased. That's God setting Jesus up for success in the temptation experience. It's not God saying, okay, here's all these tools, here's a way to hold your breath so that you can experience longer periods without food and water and burn less calories. He's not giving

The Four S's: Seen, Soothed, Safe, Secure

Michael John Cusick 5:56

him practical tools. He's establishing his identity. And therefore, the very first thing that comes out of the devil's mouth in this story is this accusation. When God says, You are my son, whom I love, with you I'm well pleased, listen to this text, then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry, and the tempter came to him and said, If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread. Do you hear it? If you are the Son of God, in direct contrast to what was their three verses earlier where God, the creator of the universe, says, I am your father, your papa, your daddy, and I love you and I'm well pleased. And then the very next thing. So here's how this relates to attachment. But first, let me just pause, check in. Already I can I I see your head nodding. What's happening inside of you?

AJ Denson 7:00

It's first the symbolism of scripture is incredible. I feel like I've read this story so many times, and each time I get something new out of it. And I also love just how you're pointing out, I mean, the devil is going after Jesus' secure attachment in Christ, er in not in Christ, but the Lord in heaven, his father. Um, and I just think that's so fascinating. As soon as he's get given his identity, his safety, his him being seen by the Father, that's where the devil goes and attacks. Just incredible.

Michael John Cusick 7:32

And this is a pretty good lesson for those of us who go to a meaningful church service. I mean, we're coming off of Easter, and that that's a, you know, the high holy days for us as Christians, right? Good Friday, Saturday, Holy Week, and Easter. And then uh a sense of, wow, things seem to be going back to normal, at least for those of us that are not in the Orthodox tradition, who Easter was last Sunday, and then there's this ongoing Easter tide. Um, but it's this sense of if Jesus had this high moment, because I would argue that the miracles were not the biggest day of his life, it was this moment when the father came and reminded him of what was true. But then, boom, there it is. And there's almost uh a kind of correlation there that when we have these profound experiences with God, whatever that might be, that there's going to be some kind of backlash, some kind of struggle. And what we call in therapy, there was an expansion of our being and an expansion of our relationship and connection and understanding of God, but then there's the inevitable contraction. And that contraction is not failure or sin, it's how the world operates. We're not meant to always be running on eight cylinders going 150 miles an hour. But here's back to the point that the accusation if you are the Son of God is actually an attack on Jesus' God-given need to be seen. So we're talking about the four S's, seen, soothe,

The Role of Temptation in Our Lives

Michael John Cusick 9:12

safe, secure. And the temptation is Jesus, I know that you long to be seen because you're human and you're creating God's image. And so you were just seen by your father in this profound public way, you're loved, he's pleased with you, you're his son. There's this beautiful father-son relationship, and I'm now going to attack that. I want that to dissolve. I want to dismantle that. And I think it's important to point out that if that's dismantled, if Jesus is somehow dislodged from the security of his relationship with the Father that was established in you are my son, with you, I love you, and with you, I'm well pleased, if that gets dislodged, then everything else falls. It's like the first domino. For those who are familiar with dominoes, right, there's that picture of if you line up 500 dominoes on the floor and they're standing up, all you have to do is push the first one, and then the inertia, they just all fall. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click. And that's what's happening in this story. If the identity of being seen, of being known in not a place of power for Jesus, but in a place of vulnerability, if that's not secure, then nothing else happens. And it's very likely that Jesus would maybe scratch his head and go, hmm, uh, maybe I should turn the stones to bread, because there's no good father, no parent, no benevolent being that is there that is going to take care of me. I'm not seen. Is that is that striking you? I want to just make sure that I'm communicating what's so much in my heart.

AJ Denson 10:53

Yeah, there's so I I think I've always viewed even just temptation as coming at presenting itself as a false sense of security and secure attachment. And I think that's based off the story, it's too simple. I mean, it's not just a false secure attachment. It is undermining what is already secure and having you question what is true and just twisting, again, the live spelt backwards. It's twisting that truth that you're holding on to and saying, well, yeah, take that so I can put this in its place. And that's so valuable, I feel like, for people who wrestle, people who struggle with temptation, people who um are questioning their own sense of identity. So I'm I'm right there on right there on the train with you.

Michael John Cusick 11:45

Good, good. Because this this really is so important. You know, as you're talking, it makes it made my mind go to James chapter one. It's a passage I memorized a long time ago as a younger man, and it's a

Understanding the Tempter's Strategy

Michael John Cusick 11:56

passage, as we know about, you know, uh trials and suffering, and then it talks about temptation in verse 13. James 1.13 says, When tempted, no one should say God is tempting me, for God can't be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. That's really clear, right? This is the tempter. The word for devil here in um in this passage, they're using a second phrase, and it's the word tempter, not just devil. And so the nature of evil is to entice us. So what's happening in James is really an expansion upon what's happening right here in Matthew 4, because he says, God cannot be tempted, nor does he tempt anyone. But it says, but each one is tempted when by his own desire he is dragged away and enticed. And what the tempter is doing here with Jesus is trying to speak to a desire, not a sinful desire. And please listen carefully, not a sinful desire, but a legitimate God given desire. Every listener right now, you have a legitimate God-given desire to be seen and to be known. And we know from neuroscience and developmental psychology that if that doesn't happen, you will in a very predictable way struggle to trust as you grow forward in life. So this desire, to quote Thomas Aquinas, he said that every sinful behavior is actually rooted or begins with a legitimate God-given appetite. So the tempter is saying to Jesus, okay, you've got this appetite to be seen, because the devil is a good observer of humanity, the devil is not omniscient like God, so just has knowledge through observing through all of eternity during their existence. And there's this need to be seen. And so if you're the Son of God, boom, again, there it is. Now Jesus, if he were to give into that legitimate God-given desire for the Father to bless him and approve of him and to say, With you, I'm pleased, he would say, Hmm, maybe I better use my power, just like Adam and Eve grasping for the apple, just like me kicking in my strategies, my schemes, my false self, my provisional self to say, I'm going to, as an Enneagram too, take care of people. And that's the power that I have. I'll help people, and therefore I'll get my needs met. And maybe then people say, You are awesome. You are a son of God. You do have significance, etc. So this one's all about being seen. And then the first of the temptations

The Need for Security and Attachment

Michael John Cusick 14:51

that we call the three temptations, and there are four because the first one is actually this accusation, it says, if you're the son of God, tell these stones to become bread. Now many have suggested that this whole story of if you're the son of God, tell them to become stones to become bread, is all about the misuse of power, that we can misuse our power to sin. And I would argue that that's true. It's not untrue. But remember, the longing to be seen, which is an attachment need, is against identity. And then what's happening here with turn these stones to bread is that the tempter is speaking to Jesus' need to be soothed. It's very clear. I mean, it's the most obvious sentence in the Bible when it says after fasting 40 days and 40 nights, he was hungry. Yeah, my young life leader decades ago was like, uh, really? Geez, I wonder why God put that there, right? Because it's such an obvious thought. What happens when we're hungry? Our stomach growls, we get low blood sugar, we get cranky and irritable. We may uh in our in our vulnerability in low blood sugar, like our judgment might not be as strong. We might just make bad decisions. So here's Jesus is hungry and he needs soothing. Have you, AJ, ever been in a situation where you know you missed a meal or it was late in the afternoon, or you stayed up too late, and like suddenly you realize I haven't eaten, and you start to get low blood sugar, or you start to get a little anxious about the fact that there's nothing in your stomach?

AJ Denson 16:30

Man, that happened to me yesterday. I was I had so many jitters and I was had a coffee. I was like, why am I shaking? I'm like, oh, I forgot lunch. I totally missed that in my schedule and everything. Had some food, now it's good to go. Yeah, I've been there. You don't make rash decisions when you're uh or you don't make wise decisions when you're hungry.

Michael John Cusick 16:49

Yeah, isn't that interesting? Because in a the addiction field, we say, you know, HALT, the acronym HALT. So addicts often act out when they're hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. And Jesus, there's nothing here for us to uh believe that he's angry, but he's sure hungry, he's sure lonely, and he's certainly tired. Uh, because it's not just one day or one meal that he misses, but it's 40 days where he's going on through this experience. And so the tempter comes against his longing to be soothed, this physical distress and discomfort. Let's face it, part of why fasting is a spiritual discipline is because it it puts us into a sense in a state of distress where we therefore become more aware of our spiritual need than if we weren't fasting. And that's true if I decide for a day or a week to not turn on the radio when I get into my car. What it does is it brings the restlessness to the surface. And so in this desert, in this wilderness, there's a restlessness in Jesus that is there physically,

The Power of Scripture in Temptation

Michael John Cusick 18:05

that the stones becoming bread would become a sense of soothing for him. The second of these great attachment needs. And if people are wondering, okay, I'm hearing all this big picture stuff, but I want you to hear on the smaller scale is that um these four S are important on the horizontal level, but they're important on the vertical level in our relationship with God. And for anybody struggling with temptation, anybody struggling with habitual sin, compulsive behavior, or even an addiction, the problem of the behavior or the struggle, shopping, porn, um, gambling, anything else, it's always about an unmet need where we're not being seen, we're not being soothed, we somehow don't experience safety in our body, and therefore we don't experience a sense of security where there's just this deep sense that we're okay. So we've got the S of seen, we've got the S of soothed. Now let's continue in this passage. So Jesus says back to the devil, it is written, people don't live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. And Jesus is in effect saying, I could use my power to soothe myself, but I want to trust in my heavenly father who loves me, who is my dad, and I know that he is a good parent and an attentive, attuned caretaker, and ultimately I'm going to find my soothing in being connected to him. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. And I think it's interesting that it says the devil took him to the holy city. I think that this passage is using that in a spiritual context because there's no indication that the devil literally took him from the desert into Jerusalem and traveling however many miles that was. But it's almost as if we can imagine the devil saying, picture in your mind, Jesus, the city of Jerusalem, the holy city. Now picture the highest temple. And that picture of Jerusalem is here's the holy epicenter, and let's go to the highest place. And in that culture, at that time, and if you go to Southeast Asia or other places in the world today, the holiest places are the highest places. So the devil is taking Jesus to this place that in that culture would have represented the closest to God that you can get. And then here's the temptation. Once again, hear the accusation and then the temptation a second time. If you are the Son of God, he said, throw yourself down, for it

The Final Temptation and Jesus' Response

Michael John Cusick 20:57

is written. If Jesus is not living out of the identity that he is the Son and His Father, God is His Father, and He loves Him and He's well pleased, then He might as well throw Himself down to prove that He's the Son of God. And of course, what the devil does here is he uses scripture to try to mislead Jesus. Hey, by the way, your dad, wink wink, who I know just told you that he loves you and he's well pleased with you, he said once in the Old Testament that he'll command his angels concerning you, and they'll lift you up in their hands so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. Rather than giving in to that, Jesus says, It is also written, do not put the Lord your God to the test. What's being tempted here is the longing and the need for safety. You can be on the highest building in the world. Imagine, Jesus, you could be on the top of the Empire State Building or the Birj Khalifa in Dubai, which I've been to the top of 120. Stories, and if you jump, God will catch you. I will be your safety. You can guarantee that you can be seen by proving that you're the son of God, and Jesus doesn't give in to that because he is the son of God, he's secure in that. You can be soothed, and I'll provide a way for you to be soothed by turning the stones to bread and proving that you're the son of God. And now go ahead and jump and God will keep you safe. Well, that promise in the Old Testament about he'll command his angels is not like in every single situation, because we know that people kill themselves. We know that people make really bad decisions, and in some sense, God is protecting their soul and he's always with them, but he doesn't prevent that harm and that damage. So Jesus isn't buying it. He isn't buying this offer to find safety outside of the Father. And then finally, it says the devil took him to a very high mountain, again, a high place, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. And most theologians believe that this is a picture of the devil offering something that he could actually offer, because at that time he's the prince of the world, as Corinthians tells us, and he wasn't offering something that he couldn't do. So he said, Um, here's all the kingdoms of the world, and all of this I will give you if you bow down and worship me. Strike one, strike two, strike three, and here it is, like fourth strike, and I'm out, so he goes for broke. Jesus, bow down and worship me. And I can't believe the devil would actually think that after the first three that Jesus would do this, but the temptation is

Angelic Attendance and Divine Care

Michael John Cusick 23:56

real. The temptation is real. And what is this temptation for? It's not just about worshiping and bowing down to the tempter, it's to find security. And so in this passage, we have uh this attachment need that Jesus has because he is a human being made in God's image like us, and the the attack and the temptation is this legitimate God-given need of just being seen, being soothed, being safe and secure. And so I want to suggest to people that this passage, starting in John chapter three with the baptism and God's blessing and proclamation all the way through this is really a picture of attachment. And if we want to see a secure attachment, not just through a psychological lens, but through a biblical and theological lens, this passage is absolutely beautiful. Now, I'm not done with it yet because Jesus says, um, away from me, Satan, for it is written, worship the Lord your God and serve him only. And I love how it says, away from me, Satan, because Jesus is like, okay, I'm done with you. And my guess is that any point he could have said, away from me, Satan, and I'm not exactly sure why he didn't do that earlier, but it's like, I'm done with you, be gone. And then he proclaims more scripture, but he's not just quoting a verse, he's declaring his allegiance, which is not a religious thing, it's an attachment thing. God is actually saying, Jesus is actually saying, Worship the Lord your God and serve him only. Find your security in this sacred attachment, this indivisible union with the Father who holds you in his embrace. And then I love this verse. I never hear a sermon about this. Verse 11, the end of the story, it says that when Jesus said, Away from me, it says the devil left him. And angels came and attended to him. Wow, I would love to watch that scene of angels attending to Jesus. And I I I can't help but envision this in my mind. There's absolutely no scriptural evidence for this, but we know in John chapter 13 where Jesus washes the disciples' feet. I think that there's a possibility in my imagination that the angels were there with buckets of cool water, and they were pouring the water over his head and letting him drink from that, and maybe rubbing some oil on his face and anointing him in that way. And then several

Vulnerability and the Gospel Message

Michael John Cusick 26:50

of the angels, maybe the archangels themselves, Michael and Gabriel, uh, maybe they knelt down and they washed his feet, and they put a balm of oil over Jesus' feet. Now, just use your imagination. What does it mean that those angels attended to him? What it means is that the father was attuned to him, and as soon as that battle was over, it's like the father saying, I'm right here, and I've got my guys and gals, and they're going to attend to you. And by the way, they've been with you all the time. It's just beautiful to imagine. What happens in you, AJ, as you hear that idea that after this ordeal, not eating for 40 days, that these angels come to Jesus. Uh, where does your imagination go?

AJ Denson 27:42

Or what happens to your heart? You know, uh, the imagery that I got was, you know, in between rounds of boxing, you go back to your quarter and you just you got guys surrounding you, they're pouring water on your face, you know, ice in different spots, and you got your coach just, you know, you got this, keep it going. And I just see that the idea that as we're facing life, as we face evil, that the Lord, through his just his mercy and his care and his love and grace, is just swarming us with angels and love and care and affirmation and just attuning with our struggles. It's just beautiful. Um and and it's crazy that I I mean I rarely hear that part of the temptation in church. And that's such a be that's like puts the bow on the whole story at the very end.

Michael John Cusick 28:33

Yeah. It's and and so what if our quiet times or our devotional life became instead of I'm gonna try to read the Bible in a year, which is not a bad thing, I'm gonna take a month or a week or one day a month or one day a week and just let God attend to me. And maybe that's his angels, maybe it's not, but to just sit and let him attend to me. In other words, I'm gonna let God give me his attention. And that attention communicates, if not words, uh that might be something like, Michael, AJ, dear podcast listener, you are my daughter, you are my son, whom I love, and with you I am well pleased. And then all that goes with that, some kind of attending. And let's close with this. I know that you've experienced this. At our Restoring the Soul Men's Weekend, the staff will often model different um encounters with God and model vulnerability and model our own shame and different kinds of brokenness. And in some of those experiences, men who are on staff there to serve the men, um, open up their heart and their own brokenness, and they they let that be seen by the other men. And it's often a turning point in the weekend. And then the men never know this. Uh we do tell them that this is real time, it's not acting, but you've done this. And then it always happens is that the person who models that before the men who then go on and do their own work, they are generally in a place where they're laying down or sitting down and being attended to. And it's so beautiful for me as the leader. I've now stepped back from this part, but to see other men attending to the men like you had in your experience, where there's just a praying, a supporting, a wiping down with a cold cloth. What was that like for you? And as you think about your experience of being attended to by other men with tender strength, how does that impact seeing this passage of God providing for the angels to attend to Jesus?

AJ Denson 30:51

I think it reminds me of just just kind of the idea of that Jesus paid for it all and experienced it all. He he understands all the pain and heartbreak that we might go through. And even as I I did that um at the weekend and just being cared for, it's just a beautiful reflection of how the Lord wants to take care of us and when we open our hearts to him, how he just slides in and meets that need. And it's just it's another level of love and care and security when you can just spill your entire heart out and you have brothers around you go, hey, I see you and I love you, even and I love that you shared that. And I love that you shared your vulnerability. It's a powerful thing. Yeah, yeah.

Michael John Cusick 31:40

You know, this whole passage from the end of John 3, God's proclamation through the whole temptation story is really uh a passage where God is saying vulnerability is a good thing, not a bad thing. And every attachment wound, and for many of us, much of our experience in life is a series of attachment wounds where we learn and we move through the world with the sense that I cannot be vulnerable, I should not be vulnerable, vulnerability is not a good thing, but that goes against the very nature of how we are created. Vulnerability means that there is one there who is attending, who is attuned, who sees me, who soothes me, with whom I'm safe and with whom I'm secure. That's the gospel story, that's the good news story. And so as we wrap up, I just want to say to every listener, do remember that on your darkest day or your longest night, love has you. Until next time, take good care. So we've wrapped up another episode of Restoring the Soul. We want you to know that Restoring the Soul is so much more than a podcast. In fact, the heart of what we have done for nearly 20 years is intensive counseling. When you can't wait months or years to get out of the rut you're in, our intensive counseling programs in Colorado allow you to experience deep change in half day blocks over two weeks. To learn more, visit restoring the soul.com. That's restoring the soul.com.