Appointed Counsel Vol. 3 - Tips On Getting Paid Faster

Occasionally Joe Byrd is asked by attorneys how to make sure their claims are processed as quickly as possible. The simple answer is to file everything correctly to avoid having the claim returned by AOC staff.  In this episode of Appointed Counsel, host Joe Byrd invites AOC Senior Auditor Jada Herndon to discuss the top 10 most common reasons claims are returned. This episode is intended for attorneys.

Produced by David Stripling, Administrative Office of the Courts

Transcript

00;00;02;18 - 00;00;27;27
Host
Welcome to Appointed Counsel. A podcast presented by Tennessee Court Talk. For those involved in indigent representation. I'm Joe Byrd, lead attorney for the indigent services team of the Tennessee Administrative Office of the courts. Episode three Tips on Getting Paid Faster. I'm here today with Jada Herndon. Jada is one of our senior auditors here at the AOC. And Jada, it's good to have you here in our podcast today.

00;00;27;29 - 00;00;28;17
Jada Herndon
Thank you Joe.

00;00;28;18 - 00;00;34;28
Host
So Jada, just, tell, those who might be listening. How long you've been here and what you do. Just give us a little description.

00;00;34;28 - 00;00;46;27
Jada Herndon
So I've been here at the AOC for about ten and a half years. I am a second review auditor. I do the second review process after first review and send claims over to FNB for payment.

00;00;46;29 - 00;01;11;04
Host
And Jada is sort of my right hand person. Getting a lot done. She has another partner, Wyatt, who works and helps and, a lot of this things doing second reviews. But Jada really, maybe one of the people you talk to if you're a claimant, on occasion. So I am occasionally asked by attorneys and sometimes their assistance when they put the claims and what can we do to get our claims paid faster?

00;01;11;07 - 00;01;20;14
Host
I think the number one key thing is don't get your claim returned, right. I mean, that slows it down, doesn't it? It slows it down by what you think. Days.

00;01;20;14 - 00;01;22;20
Jada Herndon
Weeks. Yeah. Sometimes a couple of weeks.

00;01;22;21 - 00;01;41;26
Host
Right. Because I know sometimes if I'm reviewing a complex, an extended claim, I don't always get to look at my queue every day. And so it might be several days that are sits in my queue and, and I return it goes back to the judge. So the key is, is don't have a return. You might not remember you're too young, Jada, but I remember staying up late watching David Letterman.

00;01;41;26 - 00;02;00;04
Host
He had his top ten list. And, so I asked the other auditors, the rest of our team, to give me what are the top five reasons that they return claims for? And then I compiled a top ten list. We're probably not going to be as funny as David Letterman will be. In fact, not funny at all. Probably.

00;02;00;06 - 00;02;25;26
Host
But, before we get to the top ten list, one of the things that I think is a key problem is that really slows down more than normal. If there is, where supplier ID information is not updated correctly, can you just tell us a little bit what supplier ID information and what happens when it's not updated and say, some mail gets returned or a or check gets returned or something? What happens in that process?

00;02;25;27 - 00;02;49;07
Jada Herndon
So the supplier of the information is basically your supplier I.D. number that's assigned by the state to your registration. And that is how the state pays you. So if you have an address change, a firm change or any type of change to your registration, and that's not updated when we send claims over to for to be paid, it's going to throw your registration into error and cause an additional delay.

00;02;49;07 - 00;02;53;03
Jada Herndon
And you receive and payment until we can get in contact with you and update that information.

00;02;53;03 - 00;03;04;27
Host
And one of the things that hopefully everyone will do is when they do have some of those changes, they'll get that into our special mailbox that we've set up for that. And, do you remember what the email address is for that?

00;03;04;28 - 00;03;09;08
Jada Herndon
It is W9.help@tncourts.gov

00;03;09;08 - 00;03;20;12
Host
And what we really need them to do is just to redo a new W9, right? Correct. Well, let's get down to our top ten list that I've compiled and the David Letterman style. Let's take them in reverse order.

00;03;20;16 - 00;03;29;00
Jada Herndon
All right. Coming in at number ten is failing to upload a final dispositional order when the claim date is near the 180 days allowed for timely claims.

00;03;29;00 - 00;03;47;26
Host
Yeah, and I know this can cause some confusion for some attorneys. We don't necessarily want a final disposition order if they're filing the claim close to the final hearing, but we do need it when they push it past close to the 180 day mark, because we're trying to determine is the claim timely. So if you get that in on the initial front end, it's helpful.

00;03;48;02 - 00;03;58;08
Host
It's not helpful when you just add things on to the claim that aren't necessary though, right? I mean, we don't really want them to add things that we have to go through and see if they redacted and all that.

00;03;58;08 - 00;04;05;19
Jada Herndon
Correct. Okay. Coming in at number nine, fill in to upload required supporting documents such as receipts.

00;04;05;19 - 00;04;21;12
Host
Yeah. I don't know that. Because I review mostly complex and extended claims. I don't see many of those things that aren't happening, but I'm guessing as a second reviewer, you do see where we have to return them for receipts and the other supporting documents. Is that something you've seen quite a bit of?

00;04;21;14 - 00;04;30;14
Jada Herndon
I wouldn't say quite a bit, but it is something that does occur from time to time. Number eight failing to separate in court hours from out of court hours.

00;04;30;16 - 00;04;52;06
Host
This is a real confusing thing because back in the day when I was younger, in doing this work on paper claims, filing paper claims with the AOC and taking appointed work, we used to have a different hourly rate for in court and an hourly rate for out of court. That was changed in around 2017, I think. And but now it's all set at $50 an hour.

00;04;52;06 - 00;05;02;04
Host
But we still want the attorneys to differentiate. They're in court from out of court hours, because that's one of the ways that the court tracks some of its, reporting and some of those things.

00;05;02;08 - 00;05;07;15
Jada Herndon
Number seven, block billing, not intense. Our requirement is similar to federal court.

00;05;07;16 - 00;05;25;14
Host
Yeah. This is where an attorney will just put in a 15 minute or 30 minute or 45 minute or even an hour increment, and they just do that instead of but it's tenths of an hour. And I get why some attorneys don't do this are used to flat rate billing, and they don't know how to bill for a client to see it.

00;05;25;17 - 00;05;45;25
Host
You know, in terms of the work that they do. And it's we're not different. Like you said in reading it, we're really following what the federal system does mostly, and making it the time be with intents. And then they're supposed to put together anything that's less than a 10th of an hour. They're supposed to be able to aggregate all those activities into that 10th.

00;05;45;27 - 00;05;51;28
Jada Herndon
Okay, number six failing to properly enter mileage, not including cities to and from.

00;05;51;28 - 00;06;05;25
Host
Sometimes when you're putting mileage and you just put general mileage, if you don't put what the cities are, where are you going from or to. That doesn't give us enough information to be able to say that that was a claim. That's that's a proper claim.

00;06;06;00 - 00;06;13;18
Jada Herndon
Also counties because some rural counties they're county from to county okay. Number five information missing on orders.

00;06;13;19 - 00;06;35;20
Host
Yeah. This is something that typically this isn't the judge's responsibility because our attorneys are preparing proposed orders. So it's important that the attorneys are careful when they get to the process where they're preparing the proposed order, that they include all the information. And I suggest that you have a good template order that you just fill in for, all the most important information.

00;06;35;20 - 00;06;47;08
Host
One of the things I know that seems like auditors have a hard time is when the case numbers don't match, and then we've got to send it back and then trying to get an amended order or some explanation along those lines.

00;06;47;12 - 00;06;53;23
Jada Herndon
Number four, information on children, dates of birth, missing on properties tab and dependency and neglect.

00;06;54;00 - 00;07;16;29
Host
This is something where it's it's confusing to people. Right. Because we want the birth birthdays in a cat. But then we make them redacted on the order. But it's not us wanting them to redacted on the orders. It's a requirement that it's redacted because that is a public document. So people can see it. But we have to be able to prove to the comptroller that these were actually minors.

00;07;17;06 - 00;07;26;12
Host
And so we in a cap, it has to show their birth dates. And it's only in delinquency, dependency, delinquency and a termination of parental rights cases. Yeah.

00;07;26;12 - 00;07;45;19
Jada Herndon
So the only thing I'd add to that is we do have a lot of returns for those. And sometimes attorneys do not know where to put the children. If you'll just click the little plus button beside the parent, it'll populate another line. Some attorneys to put it in the notes, and we don't see that. Number three, forgetting to check the complex box on a complex or extended claim.

00;07;45;21 - 00;08;01;10
Host
This is one that's near and dear to my heart, because I have to review all those complex and extended claims, and I see how many times that they just forget to click the box. And it's an easy thing to forget, right? I mean, there's a little box to click. You do have to make sure that the order is uploaded.

00;08;01;10 - 00;08;19;22
Host
The see any order is uploaded. But you got to click that box or to go and it'll be processed under the default claim. And then if we can't find and this is another thing, if we can't find the order uploaded in the orders folder, not in the prior approval, there should right. There should never be any reason for an attorney to upload anything and prior approval.

00;08;19;22 - 00;08;21;04
Jada Herndon
Not in the pre-approval folder no.

00;08;21;04 - 00;08;31;19
Host
So basically that's something that we take care of internally. No attorney should have to use that prior approval. All the order should go in orders. But I do see a lot of them get kickback. But we're getting pretty high.

00;08;31;26 - 00;08;40;10
Jada Herndon
Number two. Number two incorrect case numbers. Numbers do not match from properties tab appointment order complex and extended final orders.

00;08;40;10 - 00;08;59;26
Host
You know, I've drafted so many orders and motions in my life. I know how easy it is when you make a mistake here or there, but for us, we have to track these documents, and they're associated with cases across all the judicial districts and all the counties. So for us to be able to properly do that, we've got to match them by the docket numbers with the case numbers.

00;09;00;04 - 00;09;22;00
Host
And so we're not just being nit picky. It's really something that if you ever try to find something in reverse out of the 80 to 100,000 orders we process every year, you know how important it is that everything matches up. So if they can just do a double check on all of those docket numbers, those case numbers, and make sure that what's entered on the properties page pages correct.

00;09;22;04 - 00;09;29;04
Host
And if they do have two docket numbers, for whatever reason, they might they can enter both case numbers on the properties page, right?

00;09;29;05 - 00;09;42;00
Jada Herndon
They can just click the little plus button. And another line will populate. And rightfully coming in at number one, the biggest reason we return claims failing to redact personal identifying information on all orders uploaded.

00;09;42;01 - 00;10;02;10
Host
Yeah. And we know that, sometimes attorneys have said, well, why don't you all do that? And the reason is, is because we only have eight auditors and only four of them are assigned to mainly attorney clients. So if they were, if they were redacting two, we would really be slow. I mean, we couldn't get anything really done in any real length of time that we think that would be acceptable.

00;10;02;10 - 00;10;20;04
Host
So we need them. And in fact, I'm surprised I'm a little more familiar with federal court in this instance that, you know, you've got to redact before you file it with the court. I know our state courts don't necessarily require that, but it'd be a good habit for attorneys to get into, anyway, even in the court system.

00;10;20;04 - 00;10;39;01
Host
But again, we have to have that for, for a because it's a public document when we send it over there. And there were some other things that the, auditors brought to our attention that didn't make our top ten list. They said, and I give them honorable mention. There was the random outlying dates that claiming time for communicating with the AOC.

00;10;39;04 - 00;10;51;19
Host
I've seen a few times where judges I've had to send some claims back, where judges signatures are missing from orders. And then we've mentioned already when they upload multiple copies of things, that just makes it slower for everybody, right?

00;10;51;20 - 00;10;57;17
Jada Herndon
That does, because we really have to take the time to go through and then unfile them before we send them to finance and administration.

00;10;57;17 - 00;11;18;12
Host
You know, one of the auditors emailed me and said, please tell the attorneys we want you to get paid, but we've got a job to do. We got to make sure that everything complies with rule 13. So they just said, you know, please review everything quickly and I can kind of identify with that. The thing that makes me the happiest is when I'm able to just go right through something and just click approve to move that claim on.

00;11;18;12 - 00;11;34;25
Host
You know, we can't promise every time that a claim will be paid within 40 days, you know, from the day that it's filed. But I think if they avoid doing these ten things and the other issues that we've mentioned, they're not going to get returned and at least it has a better chance of getting paid faster, don't you think?

00;11;34;26 - 00;11;45;18
Jada Herndon
I agree, and another thing is to be sure you're checking your return claims too, because when we do return them, that is where they go. And a lot of attorneys do not check that fact.

00;11;45;21 - 00;11;51;08
Host
And that can set. Or sometimes we see it set for months that they don't return it back to us. Right.

00;11;51;09 - 00;11;56;05
Jada Herndon
Last week I saw six months I think last month I saw it was a couple of years.

00;11;56;07 - 00;12;02;00
Host
Yeah. So please check your return tabs and, we'll get back to you. Jada thanks for taking the time today.

00;12;02;02 - 00;12;02;16
Jada Herndon
Thank you.

00;12;02;22 - 00;12;08;14
Host
For more information, check out the Indigent Representation web page at tncourts.gov