Ep. 27 The Tennessee Justice Bus - Hosted by Lady Justice: Women of the Court

April is Help4TN month! 

In this episode, the hosts of Lady Justice: Women of the court take over Tennessee Court Talk to discuss the Tennessee Justice Bus. Justice Elizabeth D. Walker of West Virginia and Justice Rhonda K. Wood of Arkansas sit down with Tennessee Supreme Court Justice Jeff Bivins and Anne-Lousie Wirthlin, Director of Access to Justice and Strategic Development for the Administrative Office of the Tennessee Courts sit down for a discussion on the Tennessee Justice Bus, the legal law office bringing legal help to rural communities in Tennessee. Justice Bivins and Anne-Louise answer how the justice bus came to be, how it brings lawyers to rural communities and how to schedule a Justice Bus visit. 

Produced by Nick Morgan, Tennessee Administrative Office of the Courts 

Transcript

00;00;04;13 - 00;00;11;28
Justice Walker
Oh.

00;00;12;00 - 00;00;29;07
Justice Walker
Welcome back to Lady Justice women of the court. I'm Justice Beth Walker of the Supreme Court of Appeals of West Virginia. And I'm thrilled to be back with my friend, Arkansas Justice Rhonda Wood. We are recording in January, so can I still say Happy New Year, Rhonda. How are you?

00;00;29;10 - 00;00;48;15
Justice Wood
Good. It's good to see you, Beth. Yes, we can say Happy New Year, even though it's, you know, a little bit further into January. I'm excited to see you. Life is good here in Arkansas. Life is better for you. I'm very proud of you. Beth, I have to say, for doing the dopey.

00;00;48;17 - 00;01;06;23
Justice Wood
So our listeners, if our listeners know that Justice Walker is now dopey, because of doing the, massive, Disney, And I won't get this right, but you'll have to remember. But you did the. What is it, like A5K, ten K, 15 k in the marathon?

00;01;06;26 - 00;01;29;23
Justice Walker
Yeah. So I completed and I to the extent I wasn't dopey before I am now, I did the dopey challenge down at Walt Disney World. So on Thursday I did A5K Friday. Not this or take a few weeks ago a Thursday A5K Friday a ten K, Saturday, a half marathon in Sunday, a marathon. So 48.6 miles in four days.

00;01;29;25 - 00;01;43;05
Justice Walker
A little physical fitness challenge. As our listeners know, I'm kind of a well-being, aficionado. So it was, setting a challenge for myself and meeting it, and it was very rewarding. And I had a lot of folks cheering for me. So.

00;01;43;08 - 00;02;01;15
Justice Wood
So, I sat in Arkansas on my couch with my phone in the very cold weather and just, you know, monitored you and your status on the phone. And so I did provocative. And I'm so proud of you. But, and then I thought maybe I should get out and do this. And I thought, no, I'll just, you know, live vicariously through that. So but congratulations Beth.

00;02;01;15 - 00;02;19;16
Justice Walker
Thank you so much. It was, it was really a lot of fun. And those events are so positive. There were 20,000 people in each race. So I was with a lot of people who were very inspiring to me, a lot of people raising money for good causes, a lot of people with challenges in their lives.

00;02;19;16 - 00;02;50;26
Justice Walker
So, I enjoyed it very much. But today for our podcast, we're doing something a little bit different. Rhonda and I, of course, are in two different locations, as we usually are, but I'm actually located in Nashville, Tennessee, in the same room as our special guest for today, who we're going to introduce in just a moment. But I have to take a moment and say, we are in this amazing podcast studio that's been set up by the, administrative office of the Tennessee Courts.

00;02;50;28 - 00;03;24;19
Justice Walker
So we must give a huge shout out. And thanks to our friends in our new friends in Tennessee for the technical support and hospitality, for this new, little adventure we're doing, for this episode. And this is just the first of what I think will be several new things about our podcast as we go forward, because, of course, we're maintaining our elite status as the top podcast on any platform hosted by sitting state Supreme Court justices.

00;03;24;21 - 00;03;28;27
Justice Walker
Okay, to be fair, we are the only podcast co-host.

00;03;28;27 - 00;03;29;17
Justice Bivins
You don’t have to tell that part.

00;03;29;19 - 00;03;57;02
Justice Walker
Yeah, by sitting state Supreme Court justice. But I'm still embracing our top status. We are at the top of the market, at the top of our game. So today we have two special guests, Justice Jeff Bevins of the Tennessee Supreme Court, someone Rhonda and I have known for a while. And, Anne-Louise Wirthlin, who is director of Access to Justice and Strategic development for the Administrative Office of the Tennessee Courts.

00;03;57;05 - 00;04;15;07
Justice Walker
Rhonda and I are so excited that you two are here to talk about, this is something we've wanted to talk about for a while, the Tennessee Justice Pass. And we'll invite first each of you to say hello and introduce yourselves to our audience. So, Justice Bivins, tell us about yourself. It's so good to see you today.

00;04;15;07 - 00;04;39;22
Justice Bivins
It's so good to be with you and Rhonda as well. I, as you said, we've known each other for a good while now. It's always good to see that. Yes. My name is Jeff Bivins I do live here in Tennessee in the Nashville area. I've been on the Supreme Court since 2014. I served the term as Chief justice for about five years. And it's, my pleasure now to serve as the liaison to the Access to Justice Commission in Tennessee.

00;04;39;23 - 00;04;58;02
Justice Wood
Yeah. So, Jeff, it's been a pleasure to know you. I was going to say you've been active in a lot of things, and I think I'm not sure if that first met you at when you guys were both chiefs, but I just, I think I, I first met you when you were involved with the Appellate Judge Education Institute and attending those meetings.

00;04;58;02 - 00;05;12;26
Justice Wood
I haven't seen you in a couple of years, so it's really nice to see you, even though it's virtually. And I didn't get to be a national with all of you, but it's great to see you and thank you for having time. And thank you to Tennessee for being such gracious hosts for this. And then Anne-Louise if you want to take a minute to introduce yourself.

00;05;13;00 - 00;05;13;23
Justice Wood
Sure.

00;05;13;25 - 00;05;34;13
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Good morning. I'm Anne-Louise Worthlin, I'm an attorney, and I've worked for the administrative office of the court since 2008. I joined there, overseeing the mediation program and then shortly, took over the Access to Justice program in 2010. And since then, we've just continued to expand the program, with the support of the court and or other partners.

00;05;34;17 - 00;05;58;13
Justice Walker
So you have been doing this for a while as you or you've been, access to justice. For how long? When did you begin with that? 2010? Yes. Okay. Well, that's, That's great. So you're an ex, an expert. So welcome, a warm welcome to both of you. To our podcast. We, as you know, love talking about state courts and what state courts do.

00;05;58;16 - 00;06;20;06
Justice Walker
Because I know you two know this as well as we do, where all the real interesting things happen are in state courts in this country. Most of the cases, that are filed in this country get handled in state courts. So we'd love to highlight, what different states are doing. So that brings us to this very exciting project that we want to hear more about.

00;06;20;06 - 00;06;27;13
Justice Walker
And, Rhonda, you took the lead on making this topic for our podcast. So why don't you kick off the interview?

00;06;27;15 - 00;06;48;28
Justice Wood
Okay, so one thing that you know, Beth mentioned as we do this podcast to, you know, sort of showcase state courts and the work they do because we think that state courts are underrated and we don't really understand that why people pay attention to federal courts when state courts are the best. And well, and that's where most people have their interaction or state courts.

00;06;49;03 - 00;07;12;13
Justice Wood
And we just try to showcase that. And then selfishly, Beth and I learn because when we're talking to other states, we learn, some of the unique programs that are doing and we, we selfishly then steal them for our own, but we want to showcase the good work that other states are doing. And so I, you know, try to be active on social media for the purpose of good, not evil, but to showcase, state courts through that as well.

00;07;12;13 - 00;07;18;06
Justice Wood
And so I'm on Twitter now, Twitter. I'm in a and I refuse to call it anything.

00;07;18;10 - 00;07;19;13
Justice Bivins
We all know it as Twitter.

00;07;19;13 - 00;07;44;20
Justice Wood
This is formerly known as, you know, sort of like Prince. You know, but I'm going to always call it that. I refuse to recognize the, the name change, but anyway, I, I was following, always now retired Tennessee justice Sharon Lee and she posted pictures of the Tennessee Access to Justice bus. And so I kept following it and seeing her and I thought, that looks phenomenal.

00;07;44;20 - 00;08;05;08
Justice Wood
And what a great idea. And seeing the work that, was being done in Tennessee. And so I shared it with Beth and said, hey, we need to learn more about this and the work that Tennessee is doing in this area. And I just thought it was incredible. So I guess we'll start off with Jeff, if you want to tell us a little bit about the Tennessee Bus, sure.

00;08;05;08 - 00;08;27;09
Justice Bivins
Be happy to. This is a long term project that, and Louise has, has spearheaded throughout a long time and even goes back to our previous AOC director, Debbie Tate, who I think both both of you may well know. We had seen it from other states, but it was a vision to be able to bring access to justice more closely to particularly the rural areas in our state.

00;08;27;11 - 00;08;52;20
Justice Bivins
And so the the effort started. But of course, the the major issue was funding. But, after looking long, hard and every under every area, we were able to get grant money to do this. We ended up purchasing, the vehicle, which is a 2021 Mercedes Benz, 2500 series cargo van and has a very high roof.

00;08;52;23 - 00;09;15;25
Justice Bivins
We purchased that conversion and did a conversion on that, did wrapping of it to where it has the the Access to Justice sign and justice bus on it. And it's it's been a delight and it's been so successful because we have been able now to, to go to those rural areas to use that because it is a mobile, it has, Wi-Fi access.

00;09;15;25 - 00;09;43;05
Justice Bivins
It's set up to where you can meet with individuals on that. And as I think both of, you know, oftentimes folks are not are scared of the justice system. So this is a way to bring it to them to work with our faith, folks of faith that we have a faith group that that is very helpful to us oftentimes will team up with that, will team up with lawyers from the rural area to do expungement clinics or wills clinics or something like that.

00;09;43;05 - 00;09;50;02
Justice Bivins
So it's been a great tool to help us provide even more access to justice across across the state.

00;09;50;04 - 00;09;58;28
Justice Walker
Well, that that's an amazing story. And it's, to to go from it's been in operation for how long? A little over a year now?

00;09;58;28 - 00;10;00;13
Justice Bivins
It's been about a year and a half. Right? Yeah.

00;10;00;16 - 00;10;01;07
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Yes.

00;10;01;09 - 00;10;16;19
Justice Walker
So, we'll make sure we have links in our show notes to, the web presence for the, the Justice bus. And, It's beautiful. I haven't seen it in person. I'm hoping to find it somewhere in Nashville and get a picture with it.

00;10;16;19 - 00;10;19;10
Justice Bivins
We can probably make that happen. That's right.

00;10;19;12 - 00;10;31;04
Justice Walker
But I, I have to ask, and I didn't say I was going to ask this question, but, And it's probably not the first time I'm wondering why the bus isn’t orange?

00;10;31;06 - 00;10;44;13
Justice Bivins
But we we wanted to be neutral. So some of us are Tennessee fans. Others or not. So we decided not to go that route. We we we might sing Rocky Top on it, though.

00;10;44;15 - 00;11;08;26
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And. I will say I'm going to just jump in that, my brother lives, you know, in Oak Ridge, outside Tennessee and they're Tennessee fans are crazy for Tennessee. I mean, I've never seen a fan store as big as the one in Knoxville. I mean, it's like bigger. It's bigger than our Arkansas Walmart stores. And it's like crazy stuff.

00;11;08;26 - 00;11;10;10
Justice Wood
So, yeah, that's a good question.

00;11;10;10 - 00;11;29;18
Justice Walker
That well, we I can I can understand that the need to be neutral when you're providing state wide access to folks, all across your state. And as you were thinking about the idea, was anyone opposed to it or was it just a matter of finding the the appropriate funding?

00;11;29;21 - 00;11;36;25
Justice Bivins
You know, that's probably and always could probably be, but I don't think we ever had any opposition to it. It was just simply, the funding was the big issue.

00;11;36;26 - 00;11;54;12
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Yes, funding was a big issue. And then I think it was difficult for people to visualize. So we did a lot of as justice movement says, we are not the first state to have that. So we, came armed with pictures and videos from some of our other states to just give people something that they could see.

00;11;54;12 - 00;11;59;19
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And then once they got the vision, we had a lot of supporters, but funding was the main obstacle.

00;11;59;20 - 00;12;05;27
Justice Walker
Okay. Anne-Louise, now that the Justice Bus has become a reality, tell us more about how it actually works.

00;12;05;27 - 00;12;27;08
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Sure. Well, it truly is a mobile legal office. We did as Justice Bivins said, we got the biggest option we could of, Mercedes sprinter van. And so when you open the side door, there's a desk and there's two laptops that we put out there. We have a printer that we put out there. We've got drawers with all your standard office supplies, and we also have a separate office in the back with the closing door.

00;12;27;08 - 00;12;48;09
Anne-Louise Worthlin
So you could technically have, two attorneys meeting with people and the confidential, meetings. We've also been able to have one attorney helping folks in the bigger office space and then sending a client in that back office, and they would connect with an attorney remotely over zoom. So you can, have some of your more urban areas support the rural areas in that way.

00;12;48;11 - 00;12;52;03
Justice Walker
Who decides where the bus go? Is that what you do?

00;12;52;05 - 00;13;14;11
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Well, I do, and then we also have a pro bono attorney coordinator that oversees a lot of our pro bono efforts. And, that person also partners is head of our faith based partnership. So as Justice Bivins said, those are where a lot of our requests come from. We also get a lot of requests from public librarians, because that is a place where people go, especially in the rural areas, to get help.

00;13;14;17 - 00;13;29;28
Anne-Louise Worthlin
So we have a lot of librarians who request the bus to come out and, have, you know, just a general civil legal clinic. They might want a more focused clinic on wills or something like that. And we do also do a lot of, reentry and second chance, expungement work as well.

00;13;30;05 - 00;14;02;19
Justice Bivins
In our rural areas. We have a lot of folks that don't have access to the internet, that they don't have access to Wi-Fi or anything of that nature. So our ability to bring the Justice bus in and have that handy and have that right on on site is a big deal. And it's really enabled us to to broaden our spectrum and to address those issues that became, I mean, they were there before Covid, but they became very, noticeable during Covid. So we think this is a great way of reaching out to those folks.

00;14;02;21 - 00;14;45;21
Justice Wood
I will say that, you know, I was thinking about this and totally going off a little bit topic, but being female justices, there's not always that many. And so it means our spouses become really good friends, because we end up at all these conferences. So, You know, Mr. Walker, Mr. Wood, are very good friends, and they, they are very interested in this, like Mercedes, like van, RV thing and so I was thinking that, that this may be the, the only way that this, like, actually comes to fruition, you know, that's been wanting something. And so this may get Mr. Walker there is that you know it's for good. What do you think that.

00;14;45;23 - 00;15;09;21
Justice Walker
Well, I'm seeing you know Anne-Louise talked about, being inspired by other states who've done this. I think Kentucky has a bus, I'm told. So maybe we could just steal this bus idea and have the Lady Justice bus. Yeah. There you go. Take it to the rural areas of West Virginia. Arkansas. Because just. That's such a good point.

00;15;09;24 - 00;15;43;08
Justice Walker
Just about, I think I think the pandemic did sort of expose this, you know, we all thought, well, we'll just do hearings remotely, but then it it becomes something or so. Even the lawyers in some of our counties don't have stable enough internet to appear at hearings. And if lawyers can't figure it out, then you can imagine folks who are self represented or find themselves in the legal system or needing the help of the legal system without any kind of internet or any kind of technical, capability.

00;15;43;08 - 00;15;54;14
Justice Walker
So I think, yeah, I think we could we could do this for good and for fun around, I'm already I'm already putting it together in my mind. So.

00;15;54;16 - 00;16;20;14
Justice Wood
Yeah. So I have a I have a question. I don't know whether, which one of you wants to answer, but have you utilized it? I know that, you know, with access to justice, a lot of times you're giving, you know, advice and doing things. Have they actually filed actually filed paperwork? You know, we file electronically in Arkansas that have you had it where individuals come in and when you're consulting on that, you've actually gone online and filed paperwork from the bus.

00;16;20;17 - 00;16;41;04
Anne-Louise Worthlin
We have not done that yet. But part of the reason is because myself and the other attorney that staffs that we are just limited in the types of representation that we can provide. Now, if we were in a county that has e-filing and we had volunteer attorneys that could do a little bit more than we are able to do, we could do that.

00;16;41;04 - 00;16;58;26
Anne-Louise Worthlin
But that is not something we've been able to do yet. But we don't have e-filing across our state yet. So, but once we that becomes more uniform, I think we will explore that. But again, I, myself and my colleague Kyle, we just aren't able to file paperwork for for folks. We're able to give advice and counsel, but in a limited context.

00;16;58;27 - 00;17;22;23
Justice Bivins
Yeah, we're in the process of trying to take e-filing statewide, where we kind of are behind in that area. We have some counties that can do it on a county by county basis, depending on the court. But as Louis said, it's not uniform, it's not there. So we're not able to do that electronically yet. We can get we can do the paperwork and the paperwork can then be taken and filed.

00;17;22;25 - 00;17;41;26
Justice Bivins
But we are looking forward to the day when we will be able to do that. And I think Rhonda raises a great point that that would be so much better and easier. But we're in the process. We have support from the administration as far as, and some dedicated funds toward the e-filing system. It's just a question of getting everybody together.

00;17;41;26 - 00;17;48;24
Justice Bivins
And in Tennessee, we're not a unified court system. So, we, are still in the process of going through that.

00;17;48;26 - 00;18;08;04
Justice Walker
Well, that was that was actually going to be my question. You anticipated it really. Well, because we've talked about that on the podcast many, many times about how different states we love actually talking about how different states, constitutions and laws are set up entirely differently in the court systems. And for example, in West Virginia, we are a unified court system.

00;18;08;04 - 00;18;19;19
Justice Walker
All 1500 folks who work for the courts in West Virginia work for the Supreme Court. Explain. For our audience as a quick review, how the Tennessee courts are set up and not unified.

00;18;19;21 - 00;18;40;10
Justice Bivins
Yea the Tennessee courts are not. For example, we have county judges that are often our general sessions judges, which is the small claims. And when we'll do their hearings in criminal cases, we have municipal judges that do that. All of our trial judges, are elected in those positions. And we as the Supreme Court don't really have authority over those.

00;18;40;10 - 00;19;09;20
Justice Bivins
And we also have the clerks who are elected officials through that process so we can cajole and, try to influence what they do. But but they are definitely independent thinkers in many ways, and we don't have a way of actually mandating that to happen. That's just something that our Constitution has not provided at one point, there was an amendment attempted to do to to provide that many, many years ago, but that amendment actually failed.

00;19;09;20 - 00;19;35;10
Justice Bivins
So though there are some very strong interest involved in that. So, we are that's part of the challenge. We're saying, in statewide e-filing is to make sure we get those those folks on board. But I mean, for the most part, we have support and it's speaking with one voice. But there are other other times when it's a very it's a very difficult situation when we don't have the authority to do that.

00;19;35;12 - 00;19;40;05
Justice Walker
Well, it seems like, maybe the Justice Bus can be, a unifying.

00;19;40;10 - 00;19;42;16
Justice Bivins
Yeah, very much so. Yeah, it can be.

00;19;42;18 - 00;19;48;03
Justice Walker
Can be. Well, and we are. Are you all e-filing in, Arkansas? Rhonda, I can't recall.

00;19;48;03 - 00;19;58;11
Justice Wood
We are we are now. I think every county now is on e-filing. I think we had like three that were left holdouts. And I think now we have everybody up.

00;19;58;17 - 00;20;17;17
Justice Walker
We're in 53 out of 55 counties going into this year. And it has been. And of course, you save the last the two largest counties, of course, for the last ones. And those are going to be quite projects. And the our capital county can our county, and our West Virginia University County, mom county, I think are the last two.

00;20;17;17 - 00;20;20;15
Justice Walker
So we'll see how it goes.

00;20;20;21 - 00;20;21;06
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Good luck with it.

00;20;21;11 - 00;20;48;08
Justice Walker
Yeah, but more about the Justice Bus. Another question I had. And, Randy, you probably have more questions too, is, you know, this is the Tennessee Supreme Court, you know, operating this as an Access to justice initiative. How do you navigate the ethical. And I think you made a reference to it a couple minutes ago. You know, you're advising you're helping people, getting information, but you're not representing them.

00;20;48;14 - 00;20;50;14
Justice Walker
So how does that how do you walk that line?

00;20;50;16 - 00;21;17;03
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Well, we, my colleague and I, the attorneys with the AOC that are operating the bus, we follow the same guidelines that our law clerks would follow. So we're allowed to do pro bono work as long as we don't appear in court. As long as we don't have a known conflict. And then as long as there is malpractice insurance and we have been lucky to partner with an umbrella organization for all the legal aids in Tennessee called the Tennessee Alliance for Legal Services.

00;21;17;05 - 00;21;38;21
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And they allow us to use their malpractice policy for our clinics and for our, our events. And so that is what enables my colleague and I for us to provide advice. And we can provide, again, this brief advice and counsel. We have a form that we walk through clients with so they can see what we're, you know, what we can do and what we can't do.

00;21;38;23 - 00;21;56;07
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And if it's going to be something more than that and more representation is needed, and that's oftentimes the case, we will refer to our local partners, whether it's legal aid or some of the other volunteer attorneys we've been able to recruit. And we are able to, smoothly pass those folks off to them to help with that.

00;21;56;07 - 00;21;58;26
Anne-Louise Worthlin
You know, more advice and counsel that we can't do.

00;21;58;28 - 00;22;18;28
Justice Bivins
And that's a part of the reason it's so important to have volunteer attorneys in those particular in each of the areas that we go into, too. And we're we're very blessed that we in most of those, we have folks that are very happy to volunteer and do that. They're happy to provide the pro bono service that's necessary, but they are a vital component of what we do as well.

00;22;19;00 - 00;22;27;13
Justice Walker
Has it, gotten more lawyers interested in, serving in that capacity? Just seeing the buzz around the state?

00;22;27;15 - 00;22;46;17
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I would think so, yes. We have created a online form for attorneys to volunteer. And if we know we're heading out into a particular area, we will reach out to if there's a organized bar association, reach out to them and reach out to the Legal Aid office to see if they will, pass on opportunities for their volunteers.

00;22;46;23 - 00;23;03;06
Anne-Louise Worthlin
But yes, I think attorneys like the flexibility that the bus provides and just sort of the novelty of it a little bit. And then also too, you know, you're not in your office, you're out in the community, and you're able to just have different types of interaction with different types of clients.

00;23;03;13 - 00;23;24;03
Justice Bivins
One of the things we've tried to do, too, is take the bus to conferences, you know, judges conferences and things like that so people can literally see it and understand because so many people don't really know what we're talking. When we say a justice bus, it's like, say what? So being able to see it and walk inside it and doing that, I think helps educate people in education.

00;23;24;03 - 00;23;37;11
Justice Bivins
They're local judges are trial judges and all to know that this is an and an asset that's out there. And they then go back and talk to their local attorneys and encourage them to, to be a part of this as well.

00;23;37;13 - 00;24;02;04
Justice Wood
I'm really curious. And I think listeners would, would be interested in, if you have maybe Annalise, a particular story and examples or a personalized I know you can't, you know, identify anybody, help and assist you, but sort of some couple, you know, examples of sort of what you've done and, you know, stories that you've helped that maybe are particularly meaningful and impactful to you.

00;24;02;07 - 00;24;22;10
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I'll start with, how we partner with some of our expungement clinics, a lot of those clinics, depending on who we're, the local partners are, they'll have a pre-registration component so they can pull court records and have all that there. But we also have a lot of overflow for people who, you know, whether it was cut off, they missed the deadline or someone said, hey, you've got to come out.

00;24;22;10 - 00;24;48;06
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And I saw this justice bus on the news and you need to go and see that. So we are able to help people who perhaps missed opportunity to participate in that event because of a cut off deadline or registration limit and a lot luckily, a lot of our records, are online. So we are can look those up and if somebody has a dismissal or something that wasn't prosecuted, we can fill out all the expungement work.

00;24;48;11 - 00;25;19;13
Anne-Louise Worthlin
That's how it works in Tennessee. We can help them fill out all those forms. And so then all that they would need to do is just take that to the clerk's office in and file that. And we give them instructions, a little handout on what next steps are. And so somebody who, you know, just missed that event was able to get their record clean because we were able to spend about 20 minutes with them walking through what we could get come off that doesn't require court appearance, doesn't require us to, you know, do any other work other than some very simple paperwork for a lawyer.

00;25;19;16 - 00;25;29;05
Justice Walker
What kind of offenses have you seen? Again, not naming names, but, folks being able to get removed from the record. What what's common?

00;25;29;07 - 00;25;31;15
Anne-Louise Worthlin
A lot of.

00;25;31;17 - 00;26;02;01
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I would say misdemeanor things. If you look at the you know, the person you're helping and then look at how long ago a lot of that. I mean, you know, you're helping folks who made mistakes when they were very young adults, which a lot of us made mistakes when we were very young adult. And, and it really is, you know, giving them a second chance, if it, if it was not prosecuted in Tennessee, a lot of things can come off, the conviction expungements I'm not going to go into because that is outside of our wheelhouse a bit, but, and it really runs the gamut.

00;26;02;01 - 00;26;31;28
Anne-Louise Worthlin
But, I mean, you could take someone who, if you were to print their record off, like it could be 7 or 8 pages and you can clean it up to, you know, 2 or 3 pages, which still is a record, but it's a very it is a much more manageable, I guess. And you just see the sort of sigh of relief that come over people when you're able to tell them, you know, we're able to get I mean, I think the we've the most I want to say for one person for again, non convictions, I think we had 25 charges we were able to remove from their record and that's a lot.

00;26;32;02 - 00;26;49;09
Justice Bivins
But that is a lot. And I think it's it's so important because that helps them become employable. That point too. You know we see a lot we'll see a lot of minor drug offenses that happen on that. That might be really old. And getting those off the record makes a big deal. It's a big.

00;26;49;19 - 00;27;13;19
Justice Wood
You know, one of the things that we're seeing in Arkansas is we're having a lot of veterans that need help with legal aid. And, issues. And that's when I see the justice bust. That's what I sort of think of is how to sort of do outreach to that community. You had that happen where you've seen the need in the in veterans with your as we've traveled with the bus.

00;27;13;22 - 00;27;36;18
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I can't recall a specific time when there was, I would say we've helped a lot of veterans. And I think it depends on who has what local partner has brought us out. That organization has an impact on just the types of folks that do come out. And we do have some really great veterans courts and veterans treatment and, and things of that nature.

00;27;36;18 - 00;27;48;23
Anne-Louise Worthlin
So I think that is an opportunity that I think definitely we could explore more. But again, a lot of times the types of clients are, dictated somewhat by which local partner has asked us to come out.

00;27;48;24 - 00;28;10;15
Justice Walker
Jeff, I know you. You don't travel on the bus. I guess as a, as a for justice. But what has what's been memorable about it for you in terms of I know you've been you know, you supported it, you watched it come and come to fruition. You know, is it pretty much what you expected?

00;28;10;18 - 00;28;29;17
Justice Bivins
It is what I think it is what I expected, but partly because I knew what we were we were trying to do. And I had seen the other states. But I think what's been inspiring to me is when we do take you to these conferences and you see these other judges and other folks that come out and look at it, it's like, oh, wow, that's what you're talking about.

00;28;29;17 - 00;28;50;22
Justice Bivins
Yes it is. And this and to be able to take that into areas where folks aren't represented and and knowing that without the ability to do that, these folks are not going to get the service they need. So that that really is an inspiring aspect of what we've been able to do with it, you know, and I hope that we will continue to do it.

00;28;50;22 - 00;29;18;04
Justice Bivins
I mean, we did, what, 35 events last year? And we've got 28, covered 28 counties out of our 95 counties. And we've already got 14 events planned for this year. So, and that's just obviously the beginning of the year. So we're really, thankful to do that. We're actually in the process of trying to get another position to, to so that they will have a full time coordinator for the Justice Bus itself.

00;29;18;06 - 00;29;25;26
Justice Walker
I was going to ask because it sounds like with that, busy of a schedule, that this is could be a full time job for someone.

00;29;25;28 - 00;29;27;10
Justice Bivins
It could very well be. Yes.

00;29;27;10 - 00;29;28;19
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Yes, definitely.

00;29;28;22 - 00;29;41;21
Justice Wood
Yeah. That was going to be my question is what sort of if you do you know, either of you or as a whole, did any future goals like, you know, if you had the money, how would you sort of expand this program?

00;29;41;26 - 00;30;01;15
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And I think this was, this idea has come up between a few people, but I think our our state is long if you're not familiar with Tennessee, but it would be great to have one in each Grand Division, because it takes over six hours to traverse one, you know, the east to the west. And so we are limited by just the geography.

00;30;01;15 - 00;30;21;25
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And so if we could have, one in each Grand Division, we could help a lot more. We could have more frequent events, and we could have some type of pattern where people could come and, you know, know that their Thursday, the justice for us is going to be at the public library, things like that. But we're just not able to do that quite yet with just one in such a large state. And in 95 counties.

00;30;22;01 - 00;30;42;05
Justice Bivins
Yeah. People don't realize the, the width of of Tennessee. Yeah, I know Beth, you have a home up and just across the state line, as well. And I grew up in the very northeast corner of the state. And the way I usually try to use as an example, when you're in the in the very northeast corner of the state, you're closer to Canada than you are to Memphis.

00;30;42;07 - 00;30;49;27
Justice Bivins
So that kind of gives you an idea of the, the areas we have to cover when we're going from one end of the state to the other.

00;30;49;29 - 00;31;05;12
Justice Walker
Well, and you use the term that I'll have you all flush out a little bit, we'll go on a little educational tangent, to explain what the grand divisions are in Tennessee and how, I know that that's a is that how you are? You all elected statewide?

00;31;05;18 - 00;31;13;29
Justice Bivins
We are elected statewide. But but our Constitution does have provisions regarding the grand divisions in the Constitution, if you want me to.

00;31;14;01 - 00;31;15;06
Justice Walker
Yeah, I would love to.

00;31;15;13 - 00;31;40;03
Justice Bivins
Yeah. We actually it's Tennessee is unique in that situation. It we reckon it's recognized all the way back to our constitutional times where we have essentially had three grand divisions. We have an East, middle and West grand division. Our Constitution addresses that from a judicial branch capacity in two different ways. Number one is we're required as the Supreme Court to sit in each Grand Division to hear cases, from time to time.

00;31;40;04 - 00;32;06;25
Justice Bivins
So we actually have a courthouse in Knoxville for the East, for East Tennessee, Nashville for Middle Tennessee, and Jackson for West Tennessee. So we hear cases in all three of those locations. The other way the Constitution addresses it is the composition of the court itself. We're a five member court, like, I know you are, Beth, but the Constitution provides that no more than two justices can be from any grand division.

00;32;06;25 - 00;32;28;08
Justice Bivins
So the effect of that is, obviously, you're going to have one from each grand division, and two of the grand divisions will have two. But you cannot have more than two of of the five justices coming from any grand division of the state. So, for example, currently we have one justice from, East Tennessee. We have two from middle and two from the west.

00;32;28;11 - 00;32;29;06
Justice Bivins
So.

00;32;29;08 - 00;32;40;21
Justice Walker
Well, we we do love and Rohnda’s is nodding because we do love geeking out. It's, on state constitutions. Did you know about the grand divisions, Rohnda?

00;32;40;26 - 00;33;08;00
Justice Wood
Yes, I knew they sat in, in the in the different divisions. And, it's always fascinated me. And I've never really understood, though, how this you can only have two. So how you that works when you run for office. How if someone wants to run, they have to wait till someone from or you just have to move. Well, it's just been the only quirky thing. I don't understand how.

00;33;08;03 - 00;33;33;22
Justice Bivins
It does get complicated from time to time. We actually, even though there is a residency requirement regarding the grand division, we we run in retention elections statewide. It's a statewide election when we do that. But for, for example, one of our just our current justices is retiring as of the end of August. He lives in West Tennessee. Well, that that means that someone from West Tennessee could take that position.

00;33;33;22 - 00;33;55;06
Justice Bivins
Or because we only have one justice currently from East Tennessee, it could come from East. So the person to fill that position could come from east or west. What it couldn't do is come from middle, because there are two of us in middle who are not retiring right now. So it totally depends on where the vacancy is and and what the current composition of the court is, where we're appointed initially.

00;33;55;06 - 00;34;05;23
Justice Bivins
So you can look at that and determine in the, in the, the call when it's, when it's sent out, specifies where the individuals may come from.

00;34;05;26 - 00;34;25;02
Justice Walker
And I probably should have, put a finer point on that when I started, because you are, like many other states, kind of a hybrid of, of elections on one hand. And appointments on the other hand, where you mix, first starting up, being appointed and then having to run statewide in a retention election.

00;34;25;04 - 00;35;02;17
Justice Bivins
Correct. And in it also changed in, 2016 as well, because adoption of an amendment to the state constitution previously to that it was just appointment by the governor and then stand for retention elections there. There was some, dispute as to whether retention elections, quote unquote, were elections which were required under the Constitution. So as a compromise for that, there was an amendment adopted in the people actually adopted it as well, that provides that you still have gubernatorial appointment, but then there's also legislative confirmation of that of that position.

00;35;02;17 - 00;35;26;02
Justice Bivins
So I was one of the last ones who didn't have to go through legislative confirmation. Justice Roger page was our first one. Who's the person retiree, but he was the first one that actually had to go through legislative confirmation. And the way the amendment works, you go through that and then you face retention elections after that. So anyone who's appointed either to our intermediate appellate courts and we have a court of appeals and a court of criminal appeals.

00;35;26;05 - 00;35;34;00
Justice Bivins
So civil, civil and criminal side, either one of those courts or the Supreme Court, you have to go through legislative confirmation.

00;35;34;02 - 00;35;42;05
Justice Walker
Okay, Rhonda, I took us totally off script, because I but I knew you would approve. Do you have, any follow up questions for all of that?

00;35;42;07 - 00;36;02;16
Justice Wood
No, I but I'm so glad that we did, because I was hopeful that we were because we always try to learn about other states and and we want listeners to learn that that's, you know, part of federalism is that states get to do things their own way, and it's up to that state to set, you know, the policy and, how their state's going to work.

00;36;02;16 - 00;36;10;09
Justice Wood
So we like to educate on different states. So, I'm glad that, you know, Jeff was ever able to do that. And so no, that's great.

00;36;10;11 - 00;36;21;27
Justice Walker
So anything, before we, we shift over to our little closing segment and and, Louise, anything else you want to tell us about? Where's the next, you know, where the next step for the Justice Plus is?

00;36;21;29 - 00;36;34;04
Anne-Louise Worthlin
We only have we're we're hanging out in Middle Tennessee, which is where Nashville is in, through February because, we are not equipped for, ice or things of that nature.

00;36;34;07 - 00;36;37;25
Justice Walker
The justice does not have Chains.

00;36;37;27 - 00;36;56;09
Anne-Louise Worthlin
So, so we are in middle Tennessee, again through February. And then April is a big month for us, access to justice wise. We call it held for ten month. And we'll have at least, at least eight events. And it really traverses the state. So just gearing up for April, but we have, a calendar online, which I know you'll put in the notes.

00;36;56;09 - 00;37;03;16
Anne-Louise Worthlin
And we also have a very strong social media presence. So please follow us and, check out where we're going and, how we're able to help people.

00;37;03;19 - 00;37;15;07
Justice Walker
Well, we will continue, to follow the justice bus. And, one last question, going to the point Ronda made earlier about Mr. Walker and Mr. Wood. Is there a refrigerator on the justice bus?

00;37;15;10 - 00;37;27;08
Anne-Louise Worthlin
We did not put a refrigerator on the justice bus but, we could we have a lovely outfitter that we worked with and that we continue to work with. They do they do all the busses for all the big country stars so they can do anything.

00;37;27;11 - 00;37;50;14
Justice Walker
That is, that is good to know. And we will plan, accordingly. But as I said, now it is time for our lightning round. This is the part of the podcast where when we give answers to questions that, may or may not and usually don't have anything to do with our topic, for today, Jeff and and Louise, we hope you are willing to play along.

00;37;50;16 - 00;38;10;12
Justice Walker
We won't make you go first, so we'll, I'll ask the questions, and then we'll answer them in this order Rhonda first, then Jeff, then and Louise and then me. So it's relatively quick answers. You're allowed to explain them if they need explanation, but usually just, a short answer and I'll start with you, Rhonda, with what is the most use app on your phone?

00;38;10;19 - 00;38;20;05
Justice Wood
Probably I would say either the message app or the notes app because I'm constantly putting notes or checking my messages.

00;38;20;07 - 00;38;21;14
Justice Walker
How about you, Jeff?

00;38;21;17 - 00;38;32;15
Justice Bivins
Notes would definitely be one of the most use and, GPS, Waze is probably the other one because traffic is so bad. The Nashville area, we turn it on regardless of where we're going at this.

00;38;32;18 - 00;38;42;07
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I would agree Waze and then, any type of remind app. But I've got young kids, eight and ten year olds. So keeping track of them and teachers remind app. Yeah.

00;38;42;10 - 00;39;03;25
Justice Walker
Nice. Well mine is mine is probably, messaging as well, although I do use my Garmin app when I walk in the morning. So that's a regular feature as well. Now we'll get into more maybe controversial territory, I don't know. Question two is who is your favorite country music artist, past or present?

00;39;03;25 - 00;39;29;12
Justice Wood
Rhonda okay, so I don't listen to country music, but I will tell you that my husband had me go to a Garth Brooks concert recently, and I really enjoyed it. I don't know if I enjoyed him as much as I enjoyed the audience that knew every word to every song and the experience was so great and I felt a little dumb because I didn't know a lot of them.

00;39;29;12 - 00;39;36;25
Justice Wood
But. So I guess I'd have to go to that because I think, I don't know if that's the only country music artist I've ever gone to, but who puts on a good show?

00;39;37;01 - 00;39;41;12
Justice Walker
Well, thank goodness, because we're in Nashville, that you had an answer.

00;39;41;15 - 00;39;43;15
Justice Wood
So. Yeah. So, Jeff, what about you?

00;39;43;22 - 00;40;09;08
Justice Bivins
You know, I, I have to go back to Dolly Parton. She has been such, such an icon here in Tennessee, you know, and she is such a community servant as well that not only for her or her songs, but for everything she does and, you know, her literacy program and all that. I just really respect her for what she's done. And once there. So she's she's really a great person.

00;40;09;10 - 00;40;26;16
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Dolly. Of course. But I've been listening lately to an artist called Sturgill Simpson. He's based in Kentucky and he's country, but he has a lot of experimental music as well. So if you're not super into country, I would encourage you to check that out. Yeah.

00;40;26;19 - 00;40;54;18
Justice Walker
So, consistent with everything here, I was going to say Dolly as well, because how can you not. So I'll I'll go. I went off on a little tangent and learned a lot more about the early recording artists. Since I do spend some time in Bristol and in the Bristol area, the Bristol sessions and learning about where things kicked off with the Carter family and, Jimmy Rogers, and that just as you can listen to that now, and it's still pretty authentic.

00;40;54;18 - 00;41;05;28
Justice Walker
So I've kind of got a little sub fascination with that, which is way off brand for me. I have to say. But I still love it. Question three what is the lock screen photo on your phone?

00;41;06;00 - 00;41;15;27
Justice Wood
It is my dog's, Charlie and Macy. So. And my children remind me daily that it is not them.

00;41;15;27 - 00;41;19;20
Justice Bivins
I’m boring, I don't have a photo on my lock screen. I just it's just the screen itself.

00;41;19;20 - 00;41;22;29
Justice Walker
So, Wow, that that is, an old school age.

00;41;22;29 - 00;41;25;13
Justice Bivins
Yeah. That's right. Showing my age. Yeah.

00;41;25;15 - 00;41;28;06
Anne-Louise Worthlin
Mine's my kids. Yep. Okay.

00;41;28;09 - 00;41;51;07
Justice Walker
Mine is. I think it's 16 different photos. They change every hour. I figure I had a little landscapes, so it's West Virginia and, golf scenes and just beautiful scene. So it changes every time I pick up my phone. And our fourth class. Fourth and final. What is your favorite shoot in the United States to visit? Besides the place where you live?

00;41;51;07 - 00;41;58;27
Justice Walker
And for our guests, I'll say besides Tennessee, because it's I don't want you to go on record and get in any kind of trouble, but. Rhonda where's yours?

00;41;58;27 - 00;42;13;05
Justice Wood
I, I really think it's New York and New York City. I love wandering around the streets, and I love finding the used bookstores and the Strand Bookstore, and so I would just say New York City, probably.

00;42;13;07 - 00;42;21;03
Justice Bivins
Probably mine is the wine country in California, up through Napa Valley and Sonoma Valley. We've really enjoy going up, up into those areas.

00;42;21;06 - 00;42;30;23
Anne-Louise Worthlin
I don't have a favorite city, but Oregon. I've been there a few times, and I joke with my husband that if I had found my way there in my early 20s, we we wouldn't be here today.

00;42;30;25 - 00;42;52;26
Justice Walker
Well, because of where we are this week, I'm going to say Nashville. Because I have so enjoyed Nashville. Rhonda you should see the State Library, building that was abandoned. Oh, have you been there? Okay, of course you have. Of course you have. Rhonda is our our our library tourist. But, this is just a very visible city.

00;42;52;26 - 00;43;12;05
Justice Walker
I drove in, from West Virginia to Nashville. Not that hard. A little bit of that long Tennessee. But it is, this city is got such an energy and thriving, and it's just been really fun. So I'm going to totally be, a suck up and say, Nashville for today.

00;43;12;07 - 00;43;34;07
Justice Wood
I do wish I was there with all of you. And, but it was great visiting with you online and seeing you again. Jeff. And so that's a wrap of this episode of Lady Justice Women of the court. And thanks again to Tennessee's Supreme Court Justice Jeff Bivins and Anne-Louise and Director of Access to Justice and Strategic development for the Administrative Office of Tennessee Courts.

00;43;34;10 - 00;44;14;05
Justice Wood
We hope everyone listening has enjoyed hearing about the Tennessee Justice Bus as much as we have enjoyed talking about it. Today, we will make sure we share some links and pictures so that you can learn more about it. And I think that back in, I are going to heavily look into whether we can get busses in our own states, or we just need to have the, Walker Wood bus, and, and take it on the road and with the refrigerator though, but in the meantime, we will be back with another episode and please, you know, follow us on social media or subscribe to Lady Justice Women of the court.

00;44;14;05 - 00;44;19;19
Justice Wood
And thank you again for your time. And thank you, Tennessee, for being such great host today of the podcast.

00;44;19;21 - 00;44;20;16
Justice Bivins
Thank you for having us.