Ep. 50 Before The Bench: Judge Tim Irwin

As college football season kicks off, we welcome Judge Tim Irwin on the podcast. A former NFL offensive lineman with 14 seasons under his belt, Judge Irwin shares how his journey from the gridiron led to a second career in law, where he's now making a lasting impact on the lives of children in his hometown of Knoxville, Tennessee.

Before The Bench is a new series from Tennessee Court Talk, spotlighting judges from across the state as they share personal stories, professional challenges, and the defining moments that shaped their path to the bench.

Transcript

00;00;05;15 - 00;00;32;18
Host
There's no set playbook for becoming a judge in Tennessee. Each path to the bench is completely different. In our new series, we hear the stories of personal wins, career pivots, and the moments that mattered in shaping judicial journeys. This is Before the Bench. Only on Tennessee Court Talk. I'm your host, Nick Morgan. First up, Judge Tim Erwin. From blocking for the Vols and the Minnesota Vikings to presiding over Juvenile Court in Knox County.

00;00;32;20 - 00;00;33;11
Host


00;00;33;11 - 00;00;59;07
Judge Irwin
I remember I was a big kid. Obviously, I'm a big man. And my father took me at five years old to try to get me on a team at Fountain City Ballpark. But, league commissioners told him I was too young. I practiced for a couple of weeks. Then they took that away from me. So I had to wait. And then in youth sports back then, you had weight limits, very strict weight limits.

00;00;59;10 - 00;01;15;02
Judge Irwin
So by the time I was six and seven, old enough to play in the lowest league, I would have been playing with nine and ten year olds. So he waited till I was actually nine and put me in the 11 year old league. So I got banged around some. At first it was all right.

00;01;15;05 - 00;01;21;17
Host
What was it like growing up in Knoxville and then being a good enough athlete to play on the University of Tennessee's football team?

00;01;21;21 - 00;01;50;14
Judge Irwin
Well, it was pretty special. I was fortunate enough to go to Central High School and play for coach Tom Shumpert and had a good background, but I wanted to be at Tennessee very badly. I love Tennessee football. I grew up selling cokes in the stadium, getting in the stadium any way I could. I was a policeman’s son, and my mother worked at my junior high school, so we didn't have a lot of extra money, but we had enough.

00;01;50;16 - 00;02;02;22
Judge Irwin
But I would spend Saturday trying to sell Cokes or something to finagle my way into that stadium and watch the big orange play. And really, in my heart, that's probably where I always wanted to go.

00;02;02;24 - 00;02;06;02
Host
I was going to ask, was it always Tennessee where there are other scholarship offers?

00;02;06;02 - 00;02;34;24
Judge Irwin
I visited a lot of schools. I had a visit with a great visit down at Florida. I had a visit at Auburn. I had a visit at uh I wanted to go to a small school, so I visited East Tennessee State. Frank Emanuel actually was my recruiter at Vanderbilt, when I went over there. But, I visited, I had a good visit at Kentucky, the Fran Kersey team up in Kentucky with Sonny Collins in that group.

00;02;34;24 - 00;02;38;24
Judge Irwin
But, my heart was pretty much in Knoxville.

00;02;38;26 - 00;02;54;08
Host
That's awesome. So your first year at Tennessee, Bill Battle was the head coach. And talk a little bit about Coach Battle recruiting you. I know you didn't necessarily play on the varsity team there. But he was your first head coach.

00;02;54;11 - 00;03;19;20
Judge Irwin
Well, he ran a veer offense. And Coach Battle was an incredibly nice guy, a good football coach. But we ran the veer, which was very popular of course, he was an Alabama guy, and we ran that system at Tennessee. Ray Trail was the offensive line coach, and it was more scramble blocking and running downfield. It was nothing like I ended up doing in the pros is completely different duties, completely different scheme.

00;03;19;20 - 00;03;33;21
Judge Irwin
When Coach Majors came in, he brought Joe Avezzano in and we went a little more traditional, a little more pro type pass blocking drills and skills and probably never would have made it to the pros that I stayed in the veer offense.

00;03;33;21 - 00;03;47;08
Host
You played your varsity seasons for head coach Johnny Major's a legend at Tennessee. He was known as a pretty aggressive recruiter. The Vols weren't necessarily the powerhouse they were in the 90s. What was it like playing for Coach Majors?

00;03;47;09 - 00;04;06;15
Judge Irwin
Well, he came from a championship program. They'd won the national championship in Pittsburgh and he was very impatient. He wanted immediate results at Tennessee and we weren't ready to give him those results. The winter workouts were particularly rough. A lot of guys quit. A lot of guys would run off probably harder than any thing I ever did in professional football.

00;04;06;15 - 00;04;34;16
Judge Irwin
We practiced in the spring, three and a half, four hours scrimmages, lots of running. We came back in the fall to a new phenomenon called three Days, and I saw, our starting tackle. I remember we had run 21 tens in full pads. And on the 21st one, as we started down the field, he collapsed and fell and was out on his feet, basically able to catch himself and dislocated his left shoulder.

00;04;34;19 - 00;04;39;03
Judge Irwin
And then we stopped running that day. But we had some tough days out there to coach majors.

00;04;39;08 - 00;04;45;08
Host
What were those years like? You said, he was ready to win and you guys weren't necessarily ready to win.

00;04;45;08 - 00;05;13;24
Judge Irwin
We worked hard. I don't think we always worked smart, but we worked incredibly hard. And, you know, he was old school to a certain extent. We started this game with a seven game maximum, a General Neyland. And, he wasn't your friend. You became a player once you became a player, he was your greatest champion. He told me one time at practice that not only did I not deserve to be on the field with these guys, that I didn't deserve to eat in the training room, then I was an 18 year old sophomore by then.

00;05;13;27 - 00;05;16;06
Judge Irwin
So wow. Yeah, it was pretty tough.

00;05;16;09 - 00;05;25;08
Host
So no matter where you choose to attend law school, you still have to have an academic success. As an undergraduate, how were you able to balance school and playing football at that level?

00;05;25;08 - 00;05;50;16
Judge Irwin
Yeah, we had an academic counselor, Alan Beals did later on, Karma Tagano and we had, study halls and, tutors and we had all those advantages. But we did have a fair amount of time spent out on the football field. It would be like going to college and having a job, like some people work their way through school back then, and it took a lot of our time.

00;05;50;16 - 00;06;07;13
Judge Irwin
It made it tough. But I was, you know, planning on I always planned on being a lawyer, going to law school. So I worked very hard to achieve that. And it wasn't till I got drafted in the third round by the Vikings that I told the University of Tennessee College of Law, hey, I won't be back for a while, guys.

00;06;07;14 - 00;06;20;20
Judge Irwin
And went to went to the Vikings from there. That's kind of the way it happened. I did well on my LSAT and I was accepted, ready to go and, you know, boom, nothing. So, we had a way to play pro football. I had to take my shot while I could.

00;06;20;22 - 00;06;25;19
Host
Was that sort of your feeling was, I do want to be a lawyer, but I have to give this a shot.

00;06;25;21 - 00;06;39;07
Judge Irwin
Yeah, I mean, you don't know how it's going to work out. Third round draft choices got cut back. Then. There were only three rookies made the team. My first year, there was no practice squad. It was pretty tough fraternity to get into.

00;06;39;09 - 00;06;40;22
Host
Very different NFL.

00;06;40;24 - 00;07;00;03
Judge Irwin
Yeah. And and I had a lot to learn there. I mean, I was behind Ron Yary who was a legend, right tackle, Hall of Famer and and I played back up to both tackles. And Steve Riley was the left tackle. He was also a very established good player, had a long career. And the next year Yary went to the Rams and I was the starter.

00;07;00;04 - 00;07;15;08
Judge Irwin
Boom played, some like 97 plays in the Pro Football Hall of Fame game. First game of the season. Never came out of the game. So it from versed and playing not at all but starting all over. So it was it's on the job training so to speak.

00;07;15;10 - 00;07;19;18
Host
At what point did you realize at Tennessee like hey, I might have a chance of being drafted.

00;07;19;19 - 00;07;36;05
Judge Irwin
We had a coach named Lynn Anthony, who was an Offensive Coordinator in the later years under Majors. He was a good coach. He knew when to slip that draw in there. That was his specialty I used to think he told me about halfway through my junior season if I worked hard, he said, I might have a chance to make a living doing this.

00;07;36;05 - 00;07;38;23
Judge Irwin
First guy to ever identify me as a pro prospect.

00;07;38;26 - 00;07;48;14
Host
You blocked in the NFL for the likes of Rich Gannon, Wade Wilson, Tommy Kramer and even Archie Manning a little bit. What made your style play on the offensive line so effective?

00;07;48;17 - 00;08;07;08
Judge Irwin
Well, I think my size and my strength far more than my mobility. I was pretty mobile for a big guy, though. I mean, I could run a trap and do some things. I think more importantly, my size and strength. If I could touch you, I could generally block, wasn't the fastest guy on the football team, but I was fast enough to get the job done.

00;08;07;08 - 00;08;28;13
Judge Irwin
But I think my strength. I worked really hard in the weight room. By the time I left the league. When I got to the Minnesota Vikings, I was 274 pounds and I was six, seven and a half, and I was the biggest guy on the team. When I left the Miami Dolphins and my 14th year, I was six, seven and a half, 315 pounds.

00;08;28;15 - 00;08;47;20
Judge Irwin
I benched 520 and there were five guys bigger than I was on the team in Miami Dolphins. They had a strength coach who just turned me loose to do what I wanted to. And, Big John Gamble, he was the world's strongest man at one time on the bench, deadlift and squat. And, he turned me loose, and we got the belt on.

00;08;47;20 - 00;09;05;12
Judge Irwin
And I remember one day I tripled 500 on the bench press in there, and I had really long arms. My family did move down there with me. I played half the season at Tampa. After season at Miami, my family did make the move because my kids were in school, so I didn't have much to do. We just lifted weights together.

00;09;05;13 - 00;09;22;22
Judge Irwin
He and I worked out together, so that was pretty cool. It was, that was fun. It's different. But, of course my heart's in Minnesota. That's where I played 13 of my 14 years. And that's where I started going to law school. And I love the countryside up there. I love to hunt fish. I like the people.

00;09;22;22 - 00;09;25;25
Judge Irwin
I still go back quite often. I still feel like I'm home when I go back.

00;09;25;25 - 00;09;32;00
Host
So you retired from the NFL in the 1994 season, but as you mentioned, you had already been in law school.

00;09;32;01 - 00;09;59;01
Judge Irwin
I started law school in the fall of 1990 at William Mitchell College of Law in Saint Paul, and it was a very prestigious school. It's hard to get into, Chief Justice William Berger went there. Good teachers took full load that first of all, it was a couple of weeks where it actually, started my classes a little late, but my wife took notes for me, and I made a 4.0 that first semester I'll never forget.

00;09;59;01 - 00;10;01;03
Judge Irwin
Made a 4.0 my first semester law school.

00;10;01;05 - 00;10;02;05
Host
That's incredible.

00;10;02;08 - 00;10;07;02
Judge Irwin
And I realized that I was working way too hard. Didn’t ever do it again. But, I did then.

00;10;07;03 - 00;10;11;24
Host
So what were some of the challenges you faced playing in the NFL while going to law school?

00;10;11;29 - 00;10;38;25
Judge Irwin
Here's the way it worked. First of all, this particular college had a night program for people that worked, so I was able to go and start class at 630 till about 930 at night, every night of the week, and enable my test score. You have to take the Lsat test to get accepted at the law school, but in my test score that I was accepted, the school Tennessee was about to expire.

00;10;38;25 - 00;10;59;28
Judge Irwin
It'd been five years. So I decided to, I decided to go ahead and start and it worked out. I took, first year, I stayed up in Minnesota, took all my year long stuff. The second year after football season, I went back to Tennessee in the offseason and did that the next year, then transferred to Tennessee and finished.

00;11;00;02 - 00;11;21;08
Judge Irwin
So my degree came from about half from each school, but my degree was from the University of Tennessee. Once I became a lawyer in the fall of 90, a lawyer in town here, Herb Muncier, Or, I went to work for him, and I worked half the season and I'd come in and help him on his cases and, and, you know, just do what was assigned to me was kind of like an apprenticeship.

00;11;21;08 - 00;11;39;26
Judge Irwin
He was very kind and knew I was going to go back and play like football when I left there. And I played as long as I could play, and my kids were getting to the age where I didn't want to move them around much anymore. And, the Dolphins wanted me to come back and play again. But I kind of just, I felt like it was a good time for me to step down.

00;11;39;27 - 00;11;40;09
Judge Irwin


00;11;40;09 - 00;11;46;09
Host
I want you to take me from graduated in law school to where you sit. Now, when we first got appointed to the bench.

00;11;46;09 - 00;12;06;05
Judge Irwin
I was able to ease into the practice of law. Like I said, I began working half season at Herb Moncier’s. I also started representing other players with their contract issues. The NFL sent me a letter telling me not to be representing Green Bay's number one draft choice. While I was playing for the Vikings. They viewed that as a conflict.

00;12;06;05 - 00;12;27;21
Judge Irwin
And I said, well, you guys are always after to have another career football, and this is what I got trained to do and I'm built it. So stop me if you think you can. And not everything back from but I did represent about 20 NFL players and I started practicing law in, Sessions Courts and Civil Courts and Criminal Courts in Knox County.

00;12;27;21 - 00;12;48;04
Judge Irwin
I like it was a competition. It was winning and losing very much like what I had on the football field is just different kind of instead of, shoving somebody down, you use your wits to beat on them a little bit. But I, I enjoyed the practice a lot. And like I said, I think the competitive nature of football served me well, enable me to compete.

00;12;48;07 - 00;13;13;26
Judge Irwin
It found out I was going to be able to make a living doing it, which was which was great. After the 9495 playoff run in Miami became time to do that full time, I was eager to start a full time law practice, and I changed, firms, mainly because the new firm offered me my own secretary, and I needed and needed to get my work out a little faster than I was able to at my old place.

00;13;13;28 - 00;13;39;05
Judge Irwin
I wasn't a typist myself. Lawyers back in those days were trying to dictate. Interesting. And you didn't type, you didn't use. You had computers, but you didn't use them yourself. You had a secretary that did the you dictated to them, and they used keyboards and did the typing for you. And so it was a big advantage to me when that new law firm of me and I've been there about six months and I had a pretty big case.

00;13;39;05 - 00;13;55;16
Judge Irwin
And next thing I know, they're saying, welcome to the firm partner. So I became a partner very quickly at, McCord, Troutman Irwin, 5 or 6 years down the road, they voted, they were going to buy a building and everybody's name was McCord. But me and one other guy, and I didn't see a lot of future in that.

00;13;55;16 - 00;14;16;20
Judge Irwin
They're good friends of mine. But I decided that I also had my eye on possibly being a judge at some point, and I didn't think I wanted to go into a lifelong venture. Buying a big office building stepped out on my own. I was joined by Beau Reed and, practiced on my own for five years and a third five year segment.

00;14;16;20 - 00;14;44;15
Judge Irwin
And then, the judge, Judge Garrett, passed away and I ran for, judge and I ran had an opponent for about a month, and County Commission appointed me over her. And then when the first election came before the first election the next year, she dropped out and, I haven't had an opponent since. I've been very fortunate in that regard, but I've, I had, three elections since then, and this is my 20th year I'm about to enter into.

00;14;44;21 - 00;14;51;03
Host
I know you're a major advocate for the Girls and Boys Club. Can you elaborate on your experience and passion for helping families and children?

00;14;51;05 - 00;15;15;21
Judge Irwin
Well, that's one of the places I learned to compete. My parents were, like I said, median income people. We had enough, but never any extra. They needed quality childcare. Most Saturdays, if we didn't have a ball game, would find us at the Boys and Girls Club. Some days after school, would find us there and they would drop us off there knowing we were going to be safe, knowing we're going to have good, wholesome activities.

00;15;15;23 - 00;15;36;14
Judge Irwin
We learned to swim there. Definitely learn to play basketball there. Under coach Elliot Stroup, my biggest claim to fame in sports was I was on the first Boys and Girls Club team to beat the Vine Street Hawks, and the Vine Street Hawks were legendary, and we played at this place, for Lamar Street Gym. That was like the little NBA.

00;15;36;17 - 00;15;57;06
Judge Irwin
And we traveled. There were seven of us. We played anytime, anywhere, any rules and, traveled all around town playing that we play. That's where we played in the league. It was it was just an incredible experience. And I think that's the first time I really learned to compete, and I give that program a lot of credit for my later success and love basketball.

00;15;57;12 - 00;15;59;21
Judge Irwin
Basketball was always my favorite sport as a kid.

00;15;59;22 - 00;16;10;00
Host
I have to ask, what was it like having an untraditional career and then a traditional career? Two careers almost simultaneous for a little while, and now you've been a judge for 20 years.

00;16;10;03 - 00;16;40;19
Judge Irwin
It's almost like I had three careers when I was practicing law, I was winning. I got some large judgments in civil cases. Represented 20 NFL players that had made it. I was making money as an agent, but I was also winning DUIs. I was also winning smaller cases. Sometimes I felt good about what I'd done. Sometimes I didn't feel so good about whatnot, and I kept thinking about Juvenile Court and how no matter what the outcome of the case, you're helping a kid down here.

00;16;40;22 - 00;17;06;09
Judge Irwin
And I thought, man, that'd be a great way to spend your life, man. I make as much money as a big law practice, but that would be something I would like to do. Had insurance, there was no office experience. I'd done enough cases, been appointed to enough cases down here that I knew what was going on. And I thought, man, it's be a good time for I get too old now, lose all my name recognition I could probably run for and get this.

00;17;06;12 - 00;17;28;22
Judge Irwin
And sure enough, the opportunity came along, and, it's been a good move for me and it's been something I've loved. It's nice to go to work every day and love your job, both in the NFL and both in, and you need to understand this. I've had 16 orthopedic surgery. I'm stiff in the morning. I got two artificial knees.

00;17;28;24 - 00;17;46;23
Judge Irwin
I started 200 some games in a row in the NFL where if you ask me if I do it over again, I'd tell you tomorrow I would. I didn't make the millions and billions of dollars that the guys make nowadays. But I love the game and I love the competition. I love my teammates and I do that again.

00;17;46;25 - 00;17;50;10
Judge Irwin
And just like that, I do this job again to I like come to work. Still.

00;17;50;11 - 00;17;55;24
Host
Professional athletics and jurisprudence. Did your years on the field give you a unique perspective behind the bench?

00;17;55;27 - 00;18;17;07
Judge Irwin
I think any world experience helps you as a judge. I think seeing how people act in different situations and what the norms are in different parts of the country, just interaction among people from different backgrounds, different incomes. I think all that helps. You'd be a better Trier of fact, I think you understand people a little better than people that have only experienced life one way.

00;18;17;07 - 00;18;19;27
Judge Irwin
I think the more experiences you have, the more knowledgeable you are.

00;18;20;03 - 00;18;30;19
Host
As a Juvenile Judge. Your decisions have a big impact on young people's lives. Do you ever find yourself relating to juveniles through sports experiences or analogies to help them understand?

00;18;30;22 - 00;18;51;25
Judge Irwin
Well, I relate to them on even the ones that are in big, big trouble, I think. But for the grace of God, those are you know, I was born with two loving parents and grandparents that helped out when they could. And and the kids. I see that don't have that. A lot of them. So yeah, I look at it exactly like I just said.

00;18;51;25 - 00;19;09;00
Judge Irwin
But for the grace of God, go I and it could be me. And, because I grew up fortunate, because I got a springboard, my start with the NFL, I get to do this, and I get to help others and give back a little bit. And that's what the Boys and Girls Club is for me as well. We have a fishing tournament.

00;19;09;00 - 00;19;26;22
Judge Irwin
It's been going on 37 years for the Boys and Girls Club, and we raised millions with that fishing tournament and it makes you feel good. It's hard work, but it makes you feel good at the end of the day to know that, some kids that may not have had the opportunity that they need are going to benefit.

00;19;26;22 - 00;19;42;23
Judge Irwin
They're going to get fed, they're going to be around wholesome people. They're going to get the homework done. Think those things are important in life? I think that the mark, the best mark you could leave on the world, is help for the future generations and making sure they get it right.

00;19;42;25 - 00;19;49;00
Host
Do you have any good stories from your days blocking for Gannon or Archie or anybody like that?

00;19;49;02 - 00;20;09;04
Judge Irwin
Well, my favorite story to tell, and I've told this one few times, is I got the privilege to play against a great player, Hall of Famer. He's now passed away. Reggie White and I played with him in college as well. Reggie went to the USFL and gained about 40 pounds and came back to the NFL and started eating offensive tackles alive.

00;20;09;04 - 00;20;33;11
Judge Irwin
Everybody watched him play. He was great football player, which so many different ways, and I played against Reggie a lot. I played against him when he was at Philadelphia, I played against Green Bay, played against him a lot, least probably as much as many times as any offensive tackle ever. And were playing in the Metrodome against. He's at Green Bay now.

00;20;33;14 - 00;20;53;12
Judge Irwin
I'm probably in my 12th year. He's in his 10th and we have got the game won. It's no doubt it's over. It's in the third quarter. There's no way they're going to come back. And he is kind of turned it off. He's sort of just putting his hands on me. He's not doing much and which I'm fine with that.

00;20;53;14 - 00;21;12;03
Judge Irwin
And this kid beside me gets goes. I can't side. And he goes down and I quit. This young idiot John Jarrett is his name and he's a rookie from Penn State. And he comes in and he starts cussing Reggie White at the line of scrimmage. And I said, hey, you don't want to do that. I said, we don't want to wake him up.

00;21;12;06 - 00;21;29;05
Judge Irwin
We got it right where we want it. Just just he said, oh, I'm time for you, old man to move on. Said, it's a young man's game. You're not so blankety blank tough. I can see red. You just get. So this went on for two downs and I find you. Shut up. The third time we come up, we start running his mouth.

00;21;29;05 - 00;21;48;23
Judge Irwin
And the Packers went from a regular three four look in defense. He shifted them to a bare eagle, which put him right on that kid's nose. It got quiet. You hear this gravelly voice say, oh, you should not said that. Jesus is coming now. And wow, I mean, it got him between those big forearms. Just we all just turned and watched.

00;21;48;23 - 00;21;57;21
Judge Irwin
Everybody turned and watched in this. They got him tripled. Big forearms just drove him like a nail. It didn't say anything else the rest of the game, but yeah, stuff like that went on.

00;21;57;29 - 00;22;01;10
Host
Do you have any final words for someone looking to switch to a career in law?

00;22;01;23 - 00;22;37;11
Judge Irwin
I think you got to guard against being cynical in this business. I think you've got to guard against what we do sometimes is pretty terrible. Removing a child from their home, transferring a young person to be tried as an adult are terrible things. I think you got to think about the good things you get accomplished for the kids that you get out of trouble, that end up being adopted somewhere, and get a beautiful new home and our success stories and growing up to be leaders in their community.

00;22;37;13 - 00;22;59;13
Judge Irwin
But I think the key to this business is take it one kid at a time. Whatever kids you got that day, make it the most important thing for the time. You got to. And I don't think you'll have a big problem. I think the rest of the work itself out. Just take it one kid at a time and do your best for each kid you have in your corner.

00;22;59;16 - 00;23;06;14
Host
Judge Erwin, thank you so much for joining us on the first episode in this series of Behind the Bench here on Tennessee Court Talk.

00;23;06;16 - 00;23;07;03
Judge Irwin
Thank you, Nick.