151 - How To Manage Human Capital Like a Boss

In this episode, Jay Voigt shares how to manage human capital like a boss.

Jay is the founder and principal consultant of Human  Capital Consulting.  Jay founded this organization a little over a year ago after a 20-year career in healthcare. Jay's career began as an addiction's counselor in central Pennsylvania. Jay worked in schools, prisons, hospitals , inpatient and outpatient Treatment settings throughout his career. In 2005 upon completing a master's degree from the Pennsylvania State University in counseling, Jay moved to Denver Colorado where he continues to work in Behavioral Healthcare settings including Community Mental Health Centers and Hospital systems.

Jay now works as a full-time consultant as the founder of human capital consulting. He works across multiple industries with organizations dedicated to improving the way they manage people. Jay  is also a national presenter on substance use disorder related issues and workforce development.

To learn more, visit www.human-capitalllc.com

In this episode we cover:

3:40       Connections & Relationships
6:18       Leadership
14:41     Feedback
16:38     Receptiveness
19:08     Introspection
22:32     Sincere & Genuine
24:13     Leadership Is A Muscle
26:51     Start With The Why

Thanks so much for tuning in again this week. I appreciate you  🙂

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Special thanks to Jay Voigt for being on the show.

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Transcript

Intro  0:00  
Did you know that according to a survey by LinkedIn, 94% of employees would stay at a company longer if it invested in their career development? Hello, action taker. Welcome to Live Blissed Out. A podcast where I have inspirational informational conversations with business owners and subject matter experts to help you get the scoop on a variety of topics. Tired of hesitating or making decisions without having the big picture? Wanna be in the know? Then this is the place to go. I'm your host Marisa Huston. Helping you achieve bliss through awareness and action. So let's get to it. In this episode, Jay Voigt shares how to manage human capital like a boss, Jay is the founder and principal consultant of Human Capital Consulting. He founded this organization after a 20 year career in healthcare. His career began as an addictions counselor in central Pennsylvania. He worked in schools, prisons, hospitals, inpatient and outpatient treatment settings throughout his career. In 2005, upon completing a master's degree from the Pennsylvania State University in counseling, Jay moved to Denver, Colorado, where he continues to work in behavioral health care settings, including community mental health centers and hospital systems. He now works as a full time consultant as the founder of Human Capital Consulting. He works across multiple industries with organizations dedicated to improving the way they manage people. Jay is also a national presenter on substance use disorder related issues and workforce development. To learn more, visit www.human-capitalllc.com. 

Disclaimer  1:34  
The information opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. This podcast should not be considered professional advice. 

Marisa Huston  1:46  
Jay, welcome to the podcast. 

Jay Voigt  1:49  
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. 

Marisa Huston  1:52  
Me too. And I'm looking forward to having this dialogue with you. I think it's important for us to share with our listeners, what we're going to be talking about. 

Jay Voigt  2:02  
Sure, thanks again for inviting me on. And today I want to talk a little bit about how to manage human capital like a boss. Essentially, what that means is, I want to dive into this topic of work. It's something that affects all of us. It's pretty foundational. And most of us have had some pretty extensive work experience. And right now what we're seeing in the world is the great resignation, the workforce crisis, whatever you want to call it, but we're seeing people struggling. And a lot of this is tied to what's going on in the workplace. So this idea of human capital, essentially, it's a fancy way of saying, how do we manage our people, I want to talk a little bit about how bosses, how leaders how organizations, manage or mismanage human capital people. 

Marisa Huston  2:45  
Oh, yeah. And that's super important. I hear it all the time, Jay. It's not necessarily the company. It's the people you work with. And many people decide not to stay with a company simply because they're not happy with the work environment, the people that they interact with. 

Jay Voigt  3:01  
And I think that's changing over time as well. You know, if we think back maybe as far back as the greatest generation, there were plenty people working in factories and doing jobs that were unfulfilling, but they were able to do so for years and years and years. Today, it's uncommon in some industries, for someone to be in a position for more than a year or two. 

Marisa Huston  3:18  
Yeah. And there's so many factors to that. A lot of things have happened since COVID, where people start to realize how important their time is, and the time that they spend with their families. And oftentimes, they feel like they're restricted, they're spending 8, 10, 12 hours a day, somewhere else, and they never get to balance their lives. And I think they're seeking that now. 

Jay Voigt  3:40  
Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. There's some fundamental things about people that have never changed throughout history. And one of those is our desire for connections and relationships. Relationships today look a little different than they did say 10, 20, 30 years ago. So take, for example, even using that word family. What somebody meant when they said family 100 years ago was probably a white picket fence and two and a half kids in a heterosexual relationship in a small town where everybody knew everybody. And today that's way different. Not better or worse, just different. When we look at the current workforce were dispersed. It's not uncommon for somebody to maybe go to another state or town to go to college or training, move halfway across the country for a job or for work. Now, that's the standard, whereas 50 years ago, that was not the case. But again, if you remember what I mentioned about the human desire to have connections and relationships, those relationships look a lot different now than they did before. So an older generation perhaps would rely on their employer for a pension and a set schedule, and that was about it. Today, we have much different expectations of employers in the workplace, particularly with the younger generation, we're seeing folks bounce around. They're willing to go other places much more easily. They're not as routed as they would have been a long time ago, geographically. And now we have technology and telework and COVID really showed us that we can figure out ways to make it work without traditional nine to five hours in an office. Companies are still playing catch up, trying to figure out how do we attract and retain top talent to meet our organizational objectives. And it's a lot more complicated than just throwing a few dollars at it. 

Marisa Huston  5:25  
Because now it's not just money, you're describing a time in the past where we really as employees didn't really have as many options. You were nervous when you went to an interview, because you knew that if you didn't get that position, you might not have the opportunity quickly, There's just certain things that you were able to do in the way that you reach out because we didn't have the technology or the opportunities that we have today. And I think a lot of younger people have not experienced that. There's so much opportunity now. And the choice is really available for the employees to pick whatever they want. So then now it's becoming more challenging for employers to figure out, okay, how do we make them choose us, because there's just not that many people anymore that they can pool from. They want top talent, but they also want to fill positions and there's just not enough people that want them anymore. 

Jay Voigt  6:18  
It's definitely a job seekers market. Let me back up. And I'll give you the one minute career story to kind of give you a sense as to how I got where I am. So I've been in the workforce for 25 years and been doing what I call professional work for 20. So, I'm a licensed professional counselor. So I'm a therapist. And for 20 years, I've been working with kids and families and organizations and groups in many different capacities. But my specialty is in substance use disorder and mental health disorder treatment, I was working in organizations and I loved what I did. And the more competent I became, the more responsibilities I got. And I found myself looking and thinking, hey, I can have a greater impact as a leader. And so I started pursuing leadership roles and one thing led to another and I found myself working for a large hospital system and rapidly working my way up the ladder. I'm passionate about social justice and health disparities, particularly as it relates to people impacted by substance use disorder and other mental health disorders. And it's all about the dollar. The funding really drives services. That's just the way it is. And I came to grips with that, and decided to go back to school and get an MBA as an adult, just a few years ago. Because I saw that people sitting around the boardroom table, they all had MBAs, so I thought, oh, you know, join 'em. So I did that. I worked my way all the way up to the boardroom to the C suite. And I had the opportunity to do a career trajectory after an organization I was working with was acquired by another organization. So a little over a year ago, I stepped into the consulting world. And what I did is I thought, I'm going to apply everything that I've learned to helping people and organizations be successful through doing what I believe is most important, and that's investing in people. So instead of investing in people in a clinical sense, this is more like an organizational intervention, if you will. Backing up even further, I think we all can relate to this concept of working for someone and having a boss. And most of us, including myself, are really good at remembering the things we didn't like so much about bosses. And it's harder to identify the strengths and what went well. So I'll give you an example. I remember my first boss, when I was working as a counselor a long, long time ago. In counseling, what happens is payers, funders come in annually or more frequently, and they audit charts. They look at the client record to make sure that quality care is being delivered, but also to make sure that they're paying for a service that meets their standards. So in this instance, the state came in and they audited our charts. And they came and went and I asked my boss how everything went. And the response I got was, well everything went fine. This was kind of back before the internet. So I'm real old. We were relying heavily on paper and copy machines. And I went to the copying machine to do something and I found a copy of the audit that they left on the copy machine. And I couldn't help but look and I looked and I saw my name and I saw some notes. And the notes regarding my records indicated that the auditor found that I had a great relationship with my clients. And she went on to describe how based upon the content of our sessions and the things that we were saying and doing that, that was a huge strength, and that she thought I was a good clinician based upon that. That feedback never made it back to me. The feedback I got was everything's fine. But that really, really frustrated me. And I'll always remember that. And the way I apply that to my life today and since then is I really go out of my way to try to make sure that I'm sharing when successes and victories with my employees or my co workers even you know with my boss. That doesn't come naturally to a lot of folks. And in the workplace today, we're very high speed and I think one thing that's been lost in the workplace as well a lot of other areas is relationships. Medicine is no longer relational, right? It's all transactional. Social media is very transactional. And especially as we're working remote now, right, we're trying to find ways to connect with each other. And it's proven to be more and more difficult. So that's one example of a lesson I learned in my career that kind of got the idea instilled in me that I really need to invest in leadership. And turns out first half of my career, I never really got any leadership training, per se. And as I made it up the corporate ladder, I started really seeing this gap, in leadership, development skills and abilities. Oftentimes, we find that someone is good at what they do. They're a performer. And so we promote them, not giving them the skills and abilities that they need to be able to be successful as a leader. We see it happen all the time. Judges, that's a great place to look at it. How do you get to be a chief judge? You'd be a good Junior judge. How do you be a junior judge? You get elected. Positions. Super, highly competent, skilled folks but with no leadership training, and they find themselves trying to run organizations. Those are two professions, but it's pretty common across most professions. People just end up in a role when they don't have what they need to do the job well, and you got to learn it. So I made a commitment to myself that I was going to pursue leadership. And for me, what that entailed was mentorship. I always sought out a mentor, whether that was formal or informal. I read tons of leadership books, went back to school and got an MBA, got involved with organizations, nonprofits serving on boards of directors. I did a lot of things because I felt like I owed it to the people that I worked with, and it was gonna work for within the future. I wanted to be the best leader I can be. And so that coupled with all my professional experience, put me in a great spot to open up a consulting practice. And so my consulting practice is called Human Capital Management. Human Capital Management is just a fancy way of talking about how we manage our people. And my belief is that people are the most valuable resource. They're what make businesses run. If you think about CEOs of companies, I betcha that they're watching their balance sheet pretty frequently, weekly, at the minimum. How often have you heard of a CEO, sitting down and managing their human capital, if you will, or looking at their human capital balance sheet? Probably not nearly as common. So basically, what I do is I take an evidence based approach, and I try to help organizations identify and track metrics that measure how effectively they're managing their human capital. So at a base level, we could talk about employee turnover. If one department has higher turnover, than another department, you know, it might be worth looking at. But we also look at tenure within an organization. Sometimes people are with organizations too long. We look at, do people get reviews? How frequently do they get reviews? What's the culture like? Are we sending out any kind of surveys or tracking employee perceptions? Are we engaging  employees and around their perception of their benefits. That was unheard of 10 years ago. But now we know that employee benefits is one of the top reasons somebody will come or leave your company. 

Marisa Huston  13:01  
Absolutely. You know, it's having that conversation. I remember decades ago, when I was in the corporate world as well, I have to say that I was very fortunate because the company that I worked for was very into understanding what people were looking for, and how to give them the tools they needed. So for example, there were times where people would apply for a particular position over and over again. They were really determined to get that position, and they would be turned down. And they never understood why. And the company understood that this was a problem. And so they ended up developing an employee development system, essentially, to say, Okay, you're applying for this position, you really want it. So here are the expectations we have. And here are the tools that we'll provide you to help you attain those expectations so that the next time you do interview, you'll have the skills that we're looking for. That was really ahead of its time. People just don't think about those things, or having those yearly, what we call reviews, You know, it was really more of a recap of what are the things you do well, and what are some of the things that I think you can improve upon, and not just from my perspective, as a manager, but yours. Let's have that dialogue, and we have this exchange of information. And then we can say, all right, we agree then that next year, we're going to focus on these three key areas. And then let's look at it again and see if we've reached those goals that we've set for ourselves. And it's those little things really, that make a huge impact. Because people want to be heard. They want to know that their efforts are being acknowledged. And oftentimes, we're just in that hamster wheel where we just go to work and do our thing walk away, and we don't really understand what people are thinking or why we're not getting that promotion or getting to where we want to go. 

Jay Voigt  14:41  
I think you're absolutely right. Feedback is a great example. One. How do you get your feedback? Is it from your boss? Is it from your colleagues? Is it a 360 degree thing? Is it anonymous? How frequently are you getting the feedback? Is it annually? Is it every week? What's the quality of the feedback that you're getting? I think one of the biggest pitfalls we see in the workplace today is, leaders are not generally trained to be assertive. They have challenges, being honest and giving good effective feedback to the employees. All too often I hear, everything was fine. And then I got my annual evaluation. And there were the things on here that I didn't understand or didn't agree with. Best practice is you're getting feedback very frequently, almost real time. And if you are doing formal evaluations, there's nothing on there that's a surprise. It just reinforces what you've been learning throughout the year. Also, kind of the way we do annual evaluations for examples really changed a lot. You know, it used to be a score and a grade and a number. And the research says that's not effective. And you're seeing leading organizations are moving away from giving you a score and a number and approaching performance appraisals much differently. And we're seeing that they're much more aligned with, what do you want to do? Where do you want to go versus where you've been? 

Marisa Huston  15:59  
Yeah, to your point that 360 is so important, because you need to get the understanding from the leader themselves, so the manager, for example, and then the person that we're talking about here, the employee, let's say, and then the team, as well. Oftentimes, you have your own perception of where you think you're at, your manager has a different perspective, the team has a different perspective. Really, it's a mix of all those things, and being able to communicate that and really getting a high level view of where you're at, is likely the more valid or the more trusted result. You have to really be open to hearing all these different perspectives. 

Jay Voigt  16:38  
Well, that's a great point, you know, just talk about being open for a minute. What does it take to create an environment where you're open to feedback? So that's like really a culture issue. If I'm open to feedback, one I trust and respect and value the person giving me feedback. If it's someone I don't know well that's not very helpful. The other thing was, you know, we talked about psychological safety, you know, in the workplace. There's been different terms throughout the years. The terms that we're hearing a lot now about is diversity, equity and inclusion. And let me be super clear, I think that is so so critically important. I think it's fundamental. But, we didn't know those words before. When we were talking about an inclusive workplace, it was for the majority. The demographic of America is changing. It's for the better. We're seeing a little bit more equality in the workplace, we're seeing a more diverse workforce, ethnically fill in the blank. You know, there's so many different ways that we can look at diversity, equity and inclusion. One thing people might be able to relate to is like this concept of neurodiversity. I'm ADHD, for example. It was the way I was. 20 years ago with ADHD, you know, people bounce around, and they don't pay attention. They called us all kinds of things. Now, this idea of neurodiversity is almost normalized that, Hey, it's okay to be different. And there's other types of neurodiversity. way beyond ADHD. But there's a name for that now. So when you look at the way organizations are training, folks, it's definitely more friendly to neuro diverse folks like me,. Trainings are shorter, the tests are shorter, there's breaks. And there's lots of other things in place. People learn differently and organizational development, tactics have changed over time to be more inclusive, so we're getting better trained employees. It's a fascinating time to be alive in the workplace. 

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Marisa Huston  18:54  
It's really changed quite a bit. Younger generation now does not have a perspective of how different it really is. But people like us who've been around really understand the change that's taken place. What is the hardest part of leadership for you? 

Jay Voigt  19:08  
I think on my personal journey, I found that leadership can be really lonely. And what I mean by that is, it's not that I wasn't actively involved in relationships. To the contrary, I was very much so. As a leader, you can't say everything you think. You're under the microscope. You're going to make tough decisions. And for me, it was critical to seek out peers or people outside of my organization to talk with about that kind of stuff. There was a big change from being a peer to a leader. I think for everybody. It's different. I mean, if you look up leadership books, you're gonna find a million different leadership books on Amazon. There's two things that the research says that folks have that are highly functioning leaders. And one is humility and the other is unshakable resolve. So the humility aspect is, that's really about an accurate assessment of yourself. Humility doesn't mean groveling. It means you're right sized. You know your strengths and you know your weaknesses. And for topics, there is a whole separate podcast, I just celebrated 25 years sober. I'm a recovering drug addict. And the reason I mentioned that is, part of my recovery was doing a lot of introspection, I spent a lot of time working on myself personally. And that definitely translate to the workplace. And I've also done work on myself in the workplace. So it's something I was forced to learn to save my life. But it was a transferable skill. And by doing all that work, looking at yourself inside, it makes you more effective in all types of different situations. And historically, the way we've seen people get promoted to be leaders, a lot of times it wasn't fair. It's a lot of old white guys still running companies. And the younger generation is not that, and they're not okay with that. And that's part of the challenge we're seeing in the workplace. We have a lot of older leaders with some different values, looking at the newer, younger generation. And the phrase that I hear the thing that I see is focusing, why should we cater to them? I had to do it this way. All I got was a paycheck when I grew up. And that probably was true. But today, the younger generation, they're not satisfied with that. And because it's a job seekers market, they have power, they have force. So the younger generation really is looking at, hey, I want to be a leader and I want to lead in environmentally sustainable ways. I want to be inclusive. I care about the product, we're developing more than our profit margin. Try saying that to an interviewer that someone has been in business for 40 years. It doesn't really land too well. 

Marisa Huston  21:34  
I've been in leadership roles my whole life. And I tell you, for me, one of the hardest things was trying to get the truth. Because I would ask my team, what do you think or what would you like? And I would hear whatever the responses were, and put that into action. But then you hear on the backend from somebody else that they only said that because they felt like it was the right thing to say. And they really think differently. And so trying to pull out the truth, and really have them comfortable to trust you and be honest with you at the deepest level is, to me one of the biggest challenges for being a leader. Because they're trying to impress you and they want to sound good on the surface. But then they're really thinking something else. And it's having that true conversation that's going to help push you forward. Because it is a team effort. You can't lead without your team. You all have to work cohesively to make things happen or move in the right direction. And I found that to be really challenging. So I wanted to ask you what you think makes a great leader. 

Jay Voigt  22:32  
I think there's a lot of things. So your point about kind of being sincere and being genuine. You know, I think that that's absolutely important. We used to really work in a lot of organizations a very hierarchical. Job interview, 20 years ago, you'd probably spill in and sit down and talk to HR, and that's it. Job interviews today, a lot of times, there's a team. There's multiple interviews. You probably are going to interview with people that will be your colleagues. Sometimes even people that might report to you might be part of that interview process. I think being an effective leader today, you absolutely got to be flexible. My personal litmus test to find out if someone is a good leader, if you will. I ask them, can you tell me what your employees want to be when they grow up? That tells me if they're invested in their professional development, if there's enough trust there, that someone would confide in them. It shows that the leader is proactive. Yeah, you should know the kids names and have personal relationships. But in the workplace, it's fundamental, especially for this next generation. They're not applying for the job they're applying for, they're applying for the job, they're gonna have three positions from now. And if you can't help them get there, you're most of the boat. I think admitting mistakes is another huge thing that has been real important to me and my leadership journey. It builds credibility. It models for people that it's okay to be wrong. It gives you an opportunity to fix your mistake and show the behavior that you want to see. It makes you human, makes you approachable. Leadership styles are different and there isn't like a best right or wrong. But for me, those are like the fundamental things that I think really propelled me forward in my career that worked for me. 

Marisa Huston  24:05  
Do you think there is a skill deficiency that you come across frequently that our listeners should be aware of or focus on developing, I guess? 

Jay Voigt  24:13  
Yeah, that's a great question. And I love the way you framed that. Become aware of it first, and then do something with it. Leadership is not something that you're born with, contrary to what some people might think. Leadership is a skill, it's a muscle. It's something that you develop over time. And the way you do that is you go out and seek opportunities and challenge yourself. You take tough jobs, you take tough assignments. Assertiveness and giving feedback is a definitely a deficit that I come across very often across all industries. That's actually an easy one to develop. There's lots of materials and things out there that can help someone develop assertiveness. One of the things that I do as part of human capital is leader coaching. And nine times out of 10 that comes up and leadership coaching someone identify something they want to work on, it's exactly that. The next thing that we're missing in the workplace, particularly from leaders today really is empathy. And this notion of emotional intelligence, you know, in the past 10 years, it's kind of gained a little bit of popularity and momentum. As a therapist for 20 years, when you're sitting for 20 years across the room from somebody, and your job is to read and understand emotion, you get really good at it. In the workplace, we haven't practiced that as much. I mean, our workplace kind of sterile and said, you leave your personal issues at the door, you're a professional when you're here. I'd argue that if you really are a good effective leader, you're going to acknowledge folks, humanity, and you're going to empathize with that. And you're going to respond to that, even if it makes you uncomfortable. 

Marisa Huston  25:42  
The awareness piece I find in every conversation that I have is critical. Because if we don't understand what is happening, then we can't address it. Aside from being aware, you also need to be willing to take whatever steps there are. And part of that is setting expectations. What I find is that we assume that people know what we want. And you've got to have the conversation to say, alright, well, based on this, we're going to do this, and this is how it's going to work. Do you understand? Are you okay with this? And that way, when you do give that feedback, it's expected because you've already set the stage. And I think we miss that element. We don't set that expectation upfront. And so when you, as a leader, approach someone and say, I'd like to give you some feedback, they automatically go, oh oh. They're gonna tell me I did wrong, and they get all nervous. And even the leader themselves is concerned, because they don't want to offend the individual. They just want to help them. Their intentions are good. But that individual might take it the wrong way. And they're concerned about that. And that's where that little dance happens. If it's clear as to what that's going to look like and what they can both expect. I think that will help the situation, don't you think? 

Jay Voigt  26:51  
I fully agree, knowing what to expect is critical in the workplace. In the counseling world, we call it trauma informed. Our expectation is that when people come to us, they've been adversely affected by things. So we approach everything much more gently. And intentionally we respond to that. I fully agree with what you said. And what I add to that, you know, there's a famous author and speaker, you've probably heard of him, Simon Sinek. He's got one of the top five TED Talks ever, you know, and he talks about, it starts with the why. He talks about framing and knowing and understanding what's behind things. So for example, if I'm giving you feedback, a lot of times it helps if I explain why the feedback is important and relevant. If the feedback is just you didn't meet my expectation, well, who am I.  Who cares if you didn't need Jays expectation. But if it's a company, we're working towards a common goal, and our mission, say is to deliver great health care to people, and the feedback I'm about to give you is going to help our organizations deliver better health care, that's a lot more meaningful and carries a lot more weight. 

Marisa Huston  27:53  
Absolutely. I know, it sounds very formal, but it's really just making sure that the other person understands what you understand and that you both agreed to it. It's as simple as that. And I just think that that's an element we miss out on. And because we do, the person receiving that information may take it a different way. And then you as the giver may also be worried because you approach them and you're going, oh my goodness, I don't know if I can say this. This is the truth but I don't know how to put it out there without making that person feel like I'm not appreciating what they do. And really, the goal is to grow and for us to work together and do better. If that's clear from the get go, then it becomes less of an issue. And you can have that consistent dialogue as to your point. Timelines are also important. I mean, if you wait years to tell somebody something, that's not going to be effective either. How exactly do people get a hold of you, Jay and learn more about how you can help them with their human capital management? 

Jay Voigt  28:47  
Yeah, I work with individuals, I mostly work with companies. I'm industry agnostic. So the smallest company I've worked with has been 40. The largest has been 10,000. Best way to get a hold of me is my website, which is www.human-capitalllc.com. 

Marisa Huston  29:04  
Jay, this has been so enlightening. It starts with awareness, we really need to know what the challenges are, what we're dealing with, the changes that have taken place and are continuing to evolve so that we can improve. As human beings, as individuals in everything that we do. I'm so grateful that you were able to share this with us today. 

Jay Voigt  29:22  
Thank you so much for your time, and I'm gonna guess I just kind of wrap it up with this. I just want to be a better leader than I was yesterday. And I'm still a work in progress. And I think it's just really important that we give everybody that grace. We are all works in progress. We're all doing our best. So keep after it, folks, thanks for taking the time to listen, and thanks again for having me. 

Marisa Huston  29:40  
Thank you, Jay. 

Outro  29:41  
That's a wrap for this episode of Live Blissed Out. Thanks to Jay Voight for joining us and thanks for listening. If you have a question or comment for a future episode, all you have to do is go to www.speakpipe.com/lbovm or click the link in the show notes to leave a brief audio message. If you find value in our show, please visit www.liveblissedout.com to reach out, subscribe and share on social media. This show is made possible through listeners like you. Thank you. So long for now and remember to keep moving forward!