Modern Energy Management

2020 Energy Predictions with John Failla of Smart Energy Decisions

December 23, 2019 Nate Nilles, Amber Artrip, John Failla Season 1 Episode 13
Modern Energy Management
2020 Energy Predictions with John Failla of Smart Energy Decisions
Modern Energy Management
2020 Energy Predictions with John Failla of Smart Energy Decisions
Dec 23, 2019 Season 1 Episode 13
Nate Nilles, Amber Artrip, John Failla

As we close out 2019 and welcome 2020, we reflect on how far the industry has come and make our best guess at where we think it's headed in the next decade. We're joined by John Failla, the Founder and Editorial Director of Smart Energy Decisions. Tune in as we uncover a list of predictions made way back in 2012 and determine which ones came true. We also make our own predictions about energy management for 2020 and beyond.

In this episode, we mention the 2020 Smart Energy Decisions Innovation Summit. Learn more about this event by visiting the Smart Energy Decisions website.

Thank you for listening to our show. Subscribe for weekly shows at, where you'll also find additional resources to modernize your energy program. If you like our show, please be sure to leave us a review on the Apple Podcast app and share it with a friend or colleague.

Do you have a modern energy management story you'd like to share with us? Please email us [email protected]

Show Notes Transcript

As we close out 2019 and welcome 2020, we reflect on how far the industry has come and make our best guess at where we think it's headed in the next decade. We're joined by John Failla, the Founder and Editorial Director of Smart Energy Decisions. Tune in as we uncover a list of predictions made way back in 2012 and determine which ones came true. We also make our own predictions about energy management for 2020 and beyond.

In this episode, we mention the 2020 Smart Energy Decisions Innovation Summit. Learn more about this event by visiting the Smart Energy Decisions website.

Thank you for listening to our show. Subscribe for weekly shows at, where you'll also find additional resources to modernize your energy program. If you like our show, please be sure to leave us a review on the Apple Podcast app and share it with a friend or colleague.

Do you have a modern energy management story you'd like to share with us? Please email us [email protected]

spk_1:   0:00
Hello, everyone. Thank you for tuning into the modern energy management podcast. This podcast is a platform for energy sustainability and facilities leaders to share their stories of modern energy management at their organizations. My name is Amber, Our trip and I'm the producer and co host of the show. And as always, it is a pleasure to be joined by my co host Nationalist.

spk_0:   0:25
Hello, Amber. You ready for some predictions?

spk_1:   0:29
Yes, we are coming up to the end of 2019. And as we head into 2020 we thought it be really fun. Thio, look forward and talk about what we think is going to happen in 2020 and beyond in our industry. So we are joined today by our friend and industry thought leader John Philia. John is the founder of an editorial director of smart energy decisions. And here he's here today to talk with us a little bit about our predictions for the energy and sustainability industry. Thanks for joining us today, John.

spk_2:   1:07
Thank you, Amber. It's great to be here. And Nate, nice to join you here. I'm really looking forward to your ah, your thoughts on where things were headed and I can't think of a more interesting thing to be talking about right now,

spk_0:   1:21
right? Seems like end of the year that that happens. My my crystal ball has yet to be delivered My Amazon. So I don't have that with me today. But, John, you know, I'm so glad that you joined, uh, you know, smart energy decisions, your innovation summit, something we look forward to every year. You always get riel senior folks there that have great content. And again, uh, thank you for making the time.

spk_2:   1:48
Well, thank you, Nate. I really appreciate that. And what we're It's great to have loose. It is part of what it is we're doing. And, um, we hope Thio continue to work with you through 2020 and beyond. That's a prediction

spk_1:   2:01
that I'm certain we'll

spk_0:   2:03
take that one of the bank.

spk_1:   2:04
Come, too. Yes. Absentee. That's gonna happen. So, John, why don't you tell us a little bit about smart energy decisions in your mission?

spk_2:   2:13
Sure. So, for the listeners that aren't familiar with us were an information platform that targets large energy users and 80% of our audience or large commercial and industrial customers. And the remainder are split between higher education and municipalities and sparked energy decisions. Dot com delivers information research. Webinars that ah are really focused on helping these large customers navigate the energy transition with a focus on helping them reduce their energy use and their carbon emissions by deploying best practices in energy efficiency and renewable energy sourcing. So that's kind of that the base of our brand is that digital media platform. We've got this great community of 15,000 members, and we gather six times a year it face to face events like the innovation Summit that Nate mentioned. And there we really promote active peer to peer networking. We facilitate interaction between suppliers and big buyers so that they could both succeed. So that's what Ah, that's what we're about. And and we feel like we're in the right place at the right time.

spk_0:   3:40
Austin. Thanks, John. You and I will say for those that haven't attended, uh, please check it out. We'll make sure that we post some contact information on there. So Hey, here's what I'm thinking. Out of the gate and in prep for this. Like I mentioned, the crystal ball was still in route with all my other gifts that he did last minute. Um, but I was I was searching around, and I found in 2012. It was posting was pretty interesting. In 2012 it was predictions for F Y 2020. And it was kind of part of the President Obama's better buildings initiative. Um, and, you know, at the time, I'm sure we need an updated number, but 20% of all energy in the U. S. Was from commercial buildings. So there's this big push, and I won't read all 10. But I thought some of them, you know, now that we are in 2020 here on the cuffs are pretty interesting how dead on these were, right. So the 1st 1 was, You know, those who optimize their energy usage will pay dramatically less than those who can't or don't. And I think this was all around kind of dynamic rating tariffs, peak costs, but fact, right. We saw that being a big factor on and it seems like a real slap the head obvious one, but ah, but definitely true, right? Yes.

spk_2:   5:02
Yeah. I mean, the look, we we, uh, recently did r renewable energy sourcing survey and we've done one on distribute energy resource is and without question, reducing energy costs is the single greatest ah, objective that people have in their energy management programs. So I think it was It makes sense for them tow anchor that optimization gold toe saving money because that's really what people want. But I agree with you, Nate, That was somewhat of a penetrating glimpse into the obvious that if you use less energy, you're going to spend less

spk_1:   5:41
one right? And it may feel like maybe maybe we can come

spk_0:   5:44
up with this new list,

spk_1:   5:45
right? We definitely can. It reminds me of our very first guests, a Justin Owen from Weber State, and they probably started back in 2012 and look at what they, how much they've saved now and the reinvestment of those savings leading to even greater greater energy reduction, which is really cool.

spk_0:   6:06
And I think this will come up later when we talk about some of the predictions. But part of that conversations with with bigger last in our last podcast, right talks aboutthe shift from just efficiency. The optimization will touch on that. So here's some others that I thought were interesting again. Some of them seem very, um, you know, I can't think of another word, but but, you know, was 2012 right? So you know, farther back. But it looks so one of the other ones was We can't avoid discussing the cloud, right? And I think back. And now the cloud is just it's main states. It's everywhere in our personal lives and our professional lives. But in 2012 right people are like, Whoa, right. This is still a big, big shift. Any thoughts from both of you on that? Clearly, it said, by 2020 everything will be accessible from anywhere. I'II, computer tablets, mobile devices, real time reporting and feedback even more import True, right?

spk_1:   7:03
That's crazy. I mean, it's so true. I think back in 2012. And that's when I got my first iPhone hate. So it's like a lot has changed. And now you know, our entire business is run on the cloud. So, of course, energy managers and sustainability leaders are going to be using tools in the cloud Thio modernize their their work. It makes perfect sense.

spk_2:   7:28
Yeah. Listen, I think you could do a whole episode on this topic. Um, because what's happening with the proliferation of data centers and what's happening with more and more people using cloud computing? There's an interesting article I think, published just recently in Wired magazine, that kind of rated the sustainability of the three largest cloud companies, which Microsoft, Google and, um uh, Amazon. And, ah, you know, it's clear that kind of data center placement in location is being driven more and more by, uh, energy policy. So we see, from an economic development standpoint, there are more and more states and municipal districts that are actually using energy policy as a tool to try to draw data center, um, buildings that are, you know, being put up all over the country. So that was a big prediction that's come to bear than I think you could predict it. The role of data centers in the hole and the cloud and the whole energy ah mix is gonna become is gonna continue to increase in importance,

spk_1:   8:44
I will say. One interesting thing, though, is from our research report with John and Smart energy decisions on the state of energy management, 55% of energy managers who responded to the survey are still using manual processes for collecting utility data. So although yet we believe in the cloud cause it's ingrained in everything that we d'oh, I still think there are a lot of, um, our listeners out there even who might still be stuck in the manual data processing. So I think her journey Yeah, 2020 is more adoption. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the

spk_2:   9:25
fascinating things about being an observer in this market. Amber and me is in recognizing really how young the energy management industry is. And there are still lots of people using spreadsheets to manage their energy data. There are still companies that haven't calculated the impact of an outage on the operation for their business. Um, we're really in the early innings of what I think's gonna be Ah, a fascinating long term ballgame. I think what's interesting about this data piece, though Amber and Nate, is that once a company makes a commitment to manage their energy in a more disciplined manner, they quickly come to the reality that the first thing they have to do is really get a good handle on their data and insights based on their data. Which is why I think companies like yours and others that provide that type of insight an ability to leverage data to make decisions are really important players in the market right now.

spk_0:   10:34
Well, clearly, I have to agree to that. But you're definitely right on that trend and spoiler spoiler alert. But I know one of my predictions will talk about that we're talking about Dana is that Dana budgets for sass and just big data and general will triple in F Y 2020. So marked that down. Those budgets are being improved and and they will be three times bigger than they were in the past. So that bodes well for folks that are managing those bigger data sets. All right, what's the next one that we have on here? That's interesting is we had one that said this one I thought was interesting. Social networking will be a larger part of energy management and commercial building operations. I eat tenants will be able to use social tools to provide real time feedback to staff on comfort maintenance requirements and even more for social well being in 2012. Pretty broad, that technology didn't even exist for most of those clients. And you look at it today, and I think that one I want nailed it right. We're seeing a lot of products and tools out there. But the demand for that from occupants and folks that are competing for the right business is for the right folks to be in their specific properties. And it is a big one, And I

spk_2:   11:55
think it did you No, I quit. I wonder, Nate, what they meant by social media. I mean, if it was digital media or mobile communications, I'm, like, all in that works. But, I mean, if they meant social media, uh, so I

spk_1:   12:16
think they meant

spk_0:   12:16
it more like social networking. So I think it was more just like they'd have a voice, You know what I mean? Like, there would be some medium where the document would get to close the feedback loop where before it was like, What? What did I do? Right? It was cold. I go grab another sweatshirt.

spk_2:   12:33
Yeah, and we're in. We work space here in midtown Manhattan, and there is an app Kariba log into the app and do it. So So it's It's clearly, uh, mobile communications have have had a real big influence on things. No

spk_0:   12:46
question. Yeah, I

spk_1:   12:47
think it even

spk_0:   12:48
goes beyond when I think of, like, commercial buildings, right? Let's think. Let's think bigger. Let's think retail right when I think of these big retailers, we're seeing a lot of really cool, interesting tech in that space. Is, is it's the consumer, right? It's people that are in their shopping and their ability to provide feedback immediate feedback to the retailer. Massive. So I think that prediction way back from 2012 is ah, is Roland incorrect? Um, this one, another head slapper. But it's true energy management, you know H V C lighting plug, load, etcetera will all be centrally network. And I think that's one we've seen, right. Everything that I was moved to be I p There's conversions. Ah, you know, to include you know, all the IittIe groups in and how we manage data also presented a pretty massive security concern that we deal with on a daily basis. I don't know if that one's too exciting, but obviously it did come. It did come through, right?

spk_1:   13:45
Yeah, I think it's corn. It's also talking about bringing in other folks from the organization into energy management, which we're seeing as well Workplace folks, facilities, folks. The sea level executives are all engaged and involved and sustainability and energy management Now,

spk_2:   14:02
which is cool. Yeah, I mean, that's that's absolutely one that's gonna continue and increasing importance, I think

spk_0:   14:11
so. I think this may be the last one that we'll talk some about the other predictions. But this one we really have seen a ton, right? So this one was, uh, smart. Buildings will manage and optimize their own internal microgrids with a mix of renewables traditional generation whilst managing demand of new load, such as TV charging, et cetera, looking at bad, taking a step back and looking at it. We've really seen that right. Whether it's higher ed corporate campus, they have all kind of laid a stake in the ground or most of our clients in a Net zero campaign and really have embraced renewable generation and all of these pieces. No, I wouldn't say that all of them are sophisticated to have their own central plant micro grid etcetera, but we're definitely seeing them push towards the net zero goal and It's really it's not just an audacious goal. It's something with milestones and KP eyes and the stake in the Yeah, What would you guys think of that? I think it's really happening,

spk_1:   15:10
you know, living in the East Bay at Oakland and experiencing the blackouts that we did a few months back from the wildfires. I really think in the next five years you're going to see more and more focus on self sustaining microgrids for major companies, hospitals, schools, Um, because being put out electricity for that long is really damaging. So I think I think that's gonna be a trend that continues. It's going to become the new normal.

spk_2:   15:39
Yeah. I mean, that's that's gonna be a big theme next year. Um, and that prediction, Frankly, Nate was really awesome because that's gonna happen. And to think that someone eight years ago, uh, kind of laid that out there. That's pretty cool. I think that date obviously was a little off because we're not there yet in 2020 but it's going to happen. And frankly, I mean, we see kind of the two major dynamic Steph are driving this energy transition as we refer to it are kind of the grid going from a generation centric, highly centralized grid to an end user load centric distributed grid. And I would like to say it's kind of similar to what happened with computing when you went from highly centralized mainframes, tomb or distributed computing. That dynamic of distributed energy and plants, buildings, campuses being ableto island is, ah, something that's gonna become increasingly some important. And Amber, as you mentioned, I think things like the weather related issues and the outages that happened in California are gonna make that even, um uh, more meaningful for people. So I think that one, that one's a biggie, and that's one to continue tow, tow watch.

spk_0:   17:14
I agree on that. And John, I also think the big one to that that I'm having fun watching is is we know how to generate right energy. But it's getting this storage piece to the point that they can really start to control those larger equipment loads in the commercial buildings. And and I think once once we're there and there's that affordable affordability factor, it's going to really be a game changer on that piece of tin market. So it's fun to see people invest on that

spk_2:   17:39
yet. Nate, just one thing. Let me just jump in there because I think that the reason it didn't happen between 12 and 20 is the storage piece wasn't ready in the storage piece is really what absolutely has to be there. And I think within the next couple, three years with the way storage costs are coming down. And there's more talk about incentives focused around storage as storage becomes, ah, more realistic technology to deploy and more parts of the country. That's when I think you're really going to see things accelerate. So you're you're I agree with you 100%

spk_0:   18:16
there. That kind of wraps up all the cool ones on that list. But again, I thought folks would find it interesting, like they were pretty spot on. It's fun to see that way got there on most in and how close they were.

spk_1:   18:30
Yeah, it's fun to look back and see how far the industry has come, but we have a few predictions for 2020 and beyond. Um, so all this go ahead and start with the top one I've got here, which is weird. We'll start to see sustainability leaders in the C suite.

spk_0:   18:51
Well, I love that one, right? We talked about it last week on the podcast, but I think for me the big piece was energy efficiency. It isn't just a Nen game, right. It's not just like, Hey, here's a reduction goal. We do it, We're done. It's now really optimization, right? And continuously managing resource is more responsibly for the organization. It's got that CSR component it it is core to occupants in the community. And really true. It's a strategic piece of not only the value but the health and well being of people and those facilities. So I agree. I think people, you're going to see more opportunities for specific positions in energy and sustainability that air senior level positions in corporate campus. But it's also gonna be one that they are gonna have Ah, seated the table, which I think is great. You know,

spk_2:   19:43
Nate and Amber, this is another one you could do a whole episode on without question, because I think there are two dimensions to it bears the physical presence of sustainability execs in the C suite. And then there's the influence of sustainability on corporate strategy and we're seeing kind of both of those things happening. And frankly, the influence that sustainability will have on corporate strategy is something that's really picking up steam. I mean, one story or one key reason behind this, I think, is the amount of investment capital that's going into E S G investment funds. Um, if you want to raise money today, you have tohave a sustainability strategy in place. I know of two different companies one a communications firm and one a manufacturing firm where the CFO actually initiated development of a sustainability plan because when they tried to raise money and they didn't have a sustainability plan in place, it kind of got turned away. So having a sustainability plan being committed to sustainability is gonna be table stakes. Um, and it's it's really fascinating to see. I think it's one of the reasons that you see utilities jumping into renewables in a much more aggressive way. Now they're getting far more pressure from the financial community. Ah, to be addressing sustainability to be addressing climate change and, uh, as that need for sustainability in corporate strategy increases. By definition, you're gonna need senior sustainability people in that C suite and major role. So sorry that I kind of got I'll jump off the soapbox now, But, um, it's a really, really important dynamic, and I'm

spk_0:   21:50
you do any peace was was right on that spot on, right. And for a few that we will mention could use could use the PR on that side too. Right now, Um,

spk_1:   22:00
the other interesting thing you mentioned is the CFO involvement in energy management and sustainability. I would predict that that's going to increase. We see that sometimes every now and then with the customer. But, um, I think it's gonna become more and more important as you try to optimize your business on your productivity of your business that you have financial folks involved.

spk_0:   22:23
Well, I think it's because two and this goes into the last podcast is that it's tangible, right? The sum of the impacts that they're making now are financially relevant. And so I think just naturally they're gonna be in those conversations. What's the next one Amber would have yet

spk_1:   22:40
rolling into the next couple we've got? We believe that there will be a greater adoption of real time data,

spk_0:   22:48
so this one is like when I talked about the ones from 2020 that were like, Man, that seems like a real head slapper. I agree that it is to me, is like a head slapper, right? So I think it's one is it's a product of Yeah, technology continues to become more modern, right? People have access to more and more data, which, quite honestly I would say is is really paralyzing to a lot of people that we talked to write too many Loggins. Too much data, not enough inside. You got to get it. But I think we will have adoption. I think the big things here are that it's really affordability, even from three years ago, right? Technology is becoming less and less expensive. Thio, um, any number of factors. But I think the other thing is what What really is going to drive? This is mandates, right? So it's not just these goals for energy reduction, but we see a lot of things like New New York City, right in their green New Deal initiative, where it's going beyond ambitious goals and and people actually are gonna have financial penalties for noncompliance. And I think that is really gonna push. Ah, the adoption of the real time data because they have to put it in because now they have to take action to avoid the financial penalty. Right. So I think that's gonna drive,

spk_1:   24:06
which rolls into one of our other predictions, which is increased action around local laws and mandates for energy reduction. We're starting to see every major city released some sort of a climate action plan. Local energy reduction mandate. You mentioned New York, Boston city of Orlando here in San Francisco. Um, I think in the next five years, we're going to see a lot of great results from those mobile.

spk_0:   24:37
So, John, I'd be interested because you talked to a lot of these people you have on your panels. But, you know, we in talking to jigger it was really interesting, right? We got this view that a lot of politicians don't always believe that they can reach these thieves goals that are set, but it's there's not 100% buying, but was really gonna move. The needle is mandates that have a penalty that are gonna force people to actually make that investment move. And it's true, and it's working on and we need it right? There's there's plenty of examples. Um, are you on board with that? Is that what you see? Really? Moving the needle? A cz? Well, is these mandates coming through and and getting people toe move a lot faster than they are today From a from a nice to have bucket,

spk_2:   25:22
you know, I'm really I'm Tor na on this one and I'll and I'll tell you why I'm basically a libertarian, so and I don't mean to get this into politics, but I

spk_0:   25:34
know here is the first time in Preston on politics on,

spk_2:   25:38
But, I mean, I really wish that companies on their own volition with kind of acted a more responsible a manner. In the absence of that, I think mandates and legislation is a must have. So the real question becomes, you know, where do you draw, uh, line and an interesting unintended consequence of trump pulling out of the Paris climate accord and the lack of federal leadership around energy policy and sustainability policy is that it's created this ground swell, uh, with state and local government, and I think that the state and local government mandates and guidelines that are gonna be put in place in aggregate are actually gonna have more of an impact than if we had some sort of a federal policy in place. Um, we have and cut to tie into this trend. We've got, ah, pretty interesting part of our platform evolving in that just this week, we had an event in Philadelphia called Accelerate Philly. And, uh, Philadelphia has an aggressive sustainability plan in place, but they need engagement and enrollment from large power users in the greater Philadelphia region in order for them to achieve their goals. So we organized an event that was really successful. The participants enjoyed it. We had the City Council president as a speaker. We had several government representatives. And, um, uh, the city's need need help and assistance. Houston is in the process of rolling out of major climate action. Plan will be doing an event there in March called Accelerate Houston. Oh, and they're putting guidelines in place. Natives. You mentioned that tackle both the clean procurement side and the efficiency and optimization side. So, um, at the end of the day, I think that more and more cities are gonna be putting these guidelines in place I think it's a good thing. And, um, at smart energy decisions, we're gonna do everything we can to help support cities that are making those kinds of commitments.

spk_1:   28:07
Likewise, I think it's really exciting to see a lot of our customers, um, engage in rally around these mandates locally, and I think you're right. It's going to really move. The needle works

spk_0:   28:20
uncle for sure, right ground and found they're doing a good job. It's fun to see

spk_1:   28:26

spk_0:   28:26
the interesting one. Amber. What about the the connected infrastructure? One. I think you know, I don't have an answer here, But you see what John says, because I think this one is interesting, right?

spk_2:   28:38
You know it. It kind of ties back to that. Number two are on real time data. I mean, the the fascinating thing around data is that the more you have, the more you need. And there's a lot going on in Internet of things where costs air coming down for the technologies to deploy riel time sensors, sensors that will generate real time data. And, um, it's leading to these connected connected buildings, and the goal is to reduce maintenance costs, try to have predictive repairs done. Um, I think that you're going to see it on an individual commercial building level. I think you're going to see it on a campus level. But that's one that is definitely going to, ah, take hold. And and the key enabling. Ahh, factor. There is the declining cost of the text of the technology associated with putting in the sensors in the media ring that's gonna will allow for increased flow of real time data. And then you layer everything that's happening in artificial intelligence. On top of that, it's it's, um I don't want to go so far as to say these buildings are gonna be running themselves, but we're going to get pretty dark clothes.

spk_0:   30:05
Is that you're 2050. Prediction. You going early on me, John?

spk_2:   30:08
0 20 You know what I love about 2050 predictions is that no one's gonna be around to evaluate whether you were right or not. You know, I had let me pull it up on Google. This this is a point to these goals in these programs. I mean, I'd like to see far more goals focused on 2030. They're being focused on 2050 Yeah. You know, a 2050 gold that has you at 100% this or 100%. That is kind of interesting. I'd like to see people's feet really put to the fire with 2030 goals, 2025 goals that they're actually gonna have to make happen.

spk_1:   30:49
Well, it's we talked about this on the last podcast, but one of our customers, Kilroy Realty Corporation, set a goal in early 2019 to be nut zero in all of their buildings by the by 2020. And they're doing it. So I think we talked a little bit about this setting, these long term goals that you can actually do in a short amount of time if you focus enough energy and effort on it. So I agree with you, John. I would love to see shorter term goals it more meaningful, more impactful.

spk_0:   31:19
Well, maybe that's that's a prediction, right? And you're going to see people setting a lot more near term within 23 years. Right? We see that, uh, then what they have in the past have been, you know, decades long,

spk_1:   31:31
I hope

spk_0:   31:32
temples. Um, so, so one of the pieces on the infrastructure that I'll mention it again. Not an answer, but I'm excited to watch is I really think it's the ecosystem, right? Which ecosystem is gonna be dominant in this space? I wanted the best by the other day Christmas shopping again, her holiday shopper. And it was crazy, right? Have you been in that department? You go to the home department, which is massive now is a ghoul apple, Microsoft G Amazon, Samsung, Xfinity 80 p. You name it. I mean, there was probably 20 plus legitimate players selling me the same ecosystem and products associated products, right? So I'm really interested to see in commercial buildings because it is paralyzing decision, right of all these parts and pieces and costs which ecosystem players air going toe, you know, win the mind share right of of the market. So that's not gonna be just 2 2020 thing as we're going through. But I think that's one of the most interesting things. Having been in the space for almost 19 years. Now he's watching. That's so exciting.

spk_1:   32:36
Yeah, I think it'll be. Who can go to market the fastest with their solution, you know, with their with their sensors, since that's where it starts.

spk_0:   32:45
Lots of dynamics. You know, I have a prediction. It'll seem bias if I say here, but, uh, I'm sure there'll be some interesting sensors in lighting. I'll leave it. Um, so my last one. And again, this is This is one that I just think had the funniest name. It is not really in our commercial piece, but but I have Ah, I'm partial to the name, having all the gray hair that you guys can't see on the radio that I have. Uh, you know, in the last three years that managed to bring here, but because of the funniest one that I saw was this huge boom in the demand right of service is from senior housing in commercial in urban communities. So and it was funny because it was really driving technology in these urban communities. And you're gonna love this name. They call it this silver tsunami.

spk_1:   33:39
Oh, well, yeah,

spk_0:   33:42
and I'm loving it. So So I'm gonna be I'm gonna be monitoring the silver tsunami. All the cool things that that brings in technology and modern energy management Thio to this. So that might be its own podcast. we'll bring in some. So people in that That's great.

spk_1:   34:01
That that's

spk_0:   34:02
got Amber. That was fun.

spk_1:   34:06
That was fun. So you heard it here first. These are 2020 and beyond predictions. And let us know what you think. Do you agree with us? Do you disagree with us? Check us out on a modern energy management, darko and leave us a review in the apple podcast store and let us know what you think. John. I can't thank you enough for being here with us today and joining us for this podcast.

spk_2:   34:31
Yeah, well, listen, thank thank you guys, Nate and Amber. This was great. You really You touched on a lot of Greek topics and themes here, and good luck with the podcast. And, uh, we appreciate Ah, we appreciate the opportunity to work with you

spk_1:   34:48
For all of you listening out there. This is the modern energy management podcast. It's available wherever you get your podcasts and you can find links to your favorite platform from our home page. Modern energy management. Bacho. Until then, we will be back next week with another great episode about modern energy management. Take care