Project Zion Podcast

246 | Fair Trade | Chantal Müller-Mukamurera

January 28, 2020 Project Zion Podcast
Project Zion Podcast
246 | Fair Trade | Chantal Müller-Mukamurera
Show Notes Transcript

In today's episode Chantal Müller-Mukamurera shares her story of life and faith as part of our Fair Trade series. Chantal was born in Rwanda and became a refugee in Germany. She joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, served a full time mission, was married in the temple and had a family all before eventually finding her place in Community of Christ. 

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Intro and Outro music used with permission:

“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org

“The Trees of the Field,” Community of Christ Sings # 645, Music © 1975 Stuart Dauerman, Lillenas Publishing Company (admin. Music Services).

All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.

NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.

Speaker 1:

[inaudible].

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the project science podcast. This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts community of Christ offers for today's world.

Speaker 3:

Hello and welcome to the projects. I am podcast. I'm your host, Carla long. And today I'm speaking with someone who is very, very special to me. Uh, her name is Sean tall and even though she's said that I'd be able to pronounce her last name, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to. So I'm going to let her introduce her whole name and she's going to sing it and it's going to be absolutely beautiful. Um, I met first met Sean tall when I was working in Europe. Uh, she lives in Germany and uh, she has quite a story to tell us today and I'm so excited to hear it. So Shantelle thank you so much for making the effort to be on our podcast. I'm so excited. Hi. Hey. So Sean, tell, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 4:

[inaudible]

Speaker 5:

so I'm[inaudible] I don't need to sing it because I can do it. I just wanted to help you to learn it by seniors, but I can't pronounce my name. So[inaudible] I'm 50 years old and yeah, nearly 51 married to a wonderful passen penny the German and I have two wonderful son, Samuel and stomach in 19 and 17 and there was a dog was it?

Speaker 3:

And the dog is the most important part, right?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, he's not over family

Speaker 3:

now. Shantelle I'm sure we're going to get into this, but you don't sound like you have a German accent to me.

Speaker 5:

Yes. I was born in[inaudible]. I'm a[inaudible] citizen and I came to Germany when I was six years old. My mom,

Speaker 3:

well CR. Oh this is already interesting. So let's just jump in. So tell us more about growing, growing up in Rwanda and I'm moving to Germany and then let's just get started. Let's hear your story.

Speaker 4:

Okay.

Speaker 5:

My mom met a gentleman in Rwanda and so when I was six years old we moved to Germany. And before that time I was born in[inaudible] and then I was living short time in that year of the Republic of Congo today. And then when we came back to Rwanda where my grandparents granted my list and all the family, um, so my mom was in that, yeah. As a refugee and on her time in that time. So when my mom came back to Rwanda, she met my stepfather, a gentleman, and within she moved to Germany and took me as her oldest, um, child with her. Why am I younger? Brava, um, stayed with my grandma, but they came later, um, in the 80s, also Germany. Yeah. I went to school in Germany and then I'll go the part of Germany. I was in a Catholic school because my stepfather was a very bit strong bit, even Catholic. And it was, um, very important for him that, um, we, we get that time as Catholics. So when, when we were, uh, when he married my mom's or my siblings and I were baptized as Catholic and in Germany, I went to Catholic, um, primary school.

Speaker 3:

What was that like to go to Catholic primary school?

Speaker 5:

Uh, it was, it was good. So, um, I felt comfortable. I, I was, I grew up as a believing person. So for my mom, she, um, even when we were not baptized as teared when she was a strong VT woman, she, uh, as a woman, she was, um, a scout girl. So with the Catholic nuns and she learned, uh, many songs, um, faith promoting signs and you see the no and uh, the Bible. And so she talking all the songs and told me stories about God and to be honest and things like that. So I felt comfortable in that school. So every morning the problems that the, um, the class we would pray and um, once a month there was a sermon with all the schools. So I, I liked it.

Speaker 3:

And how long did you go to that school?

Speaker 5:

It's just, uh, from the first to the, um, fourth class and then, yeah,

Speaker 3:

I was going to say. So you graduated from there?

Speaker 5:

Um, it's just primary.

Speaker 3:

Oh, you graduated from primary there. From there. And got it. So you went to like what we would probably call sixth grade or something like that. And then where did you go to school after that?

Speaker 5:

Well, in Germany, in my time, we had four years. The first four years and then we had two years of orientation to decide where to go next. And then I was, um, after this two years, I went to[inaudible], I would call it[inaudible].

Speaker 4:

[inaudible].

Speaker 5:

Um, I, I graduated of the 10th.

Speaker 3:

And so by this point, your German was very, very good, I'm guessing.

Speaker 5:

So when, yeah, at the end it was good that at the beginning I didn't speak any German. I thought I will never learn it. When I heard my father speak and very fast, I thought I would never run it. But well, as a child, um, he'll learn because children are very true. They say, Oh, that's not right. And so they corrected me and I was very, um, I had a lot of friends and what was much in sports and so I'm very,

Speaker 3:

okay. So you went to Catholic primary school and then you decided what you spent the two years of orientation deciding what you wanted to do. What happened after that?

Speaker 5:

So then I went to, um, this is, um, another, another school, and then I graduated there, uh, after the 10th class.

Speaker 3:

And then what happened?

Speaker 5:

I'll after that. So that's a low, sorry. I wanted to um, do something with languages and I, there was a school, um, I wanted to go to, but um, it was, um, it was a translation school. Um, so, and that time I really liked languages, but um, this school was a business communications school and uh, I went there but they didn't put me in the class I wanted because it was, there were too much people and so they put me in another class I didn't want to. So I decided, um, you know, if I don't go to this class I need this school. And also was interested in doing something, um, in the social area. So during my ninth grade I had the possibility to internship and I was in a place, repented, kept people and um, I liked it and I thought maybe I won't work with handicapped people. And so when I didn't get the school I wanted, I went back to this, um, place and asked if I could do a one year internship because I'm in the ninth grade. It was just three weeks just, Oh, your attention. If it is for me. And so I could do that for one year. And the plan was to a school after that, um, to get to work with handicapped people. So[inaudible] I wanted to do something like that, but, um, Germany is very much in, um, the real Cressey. And when the time I involved myself about which steps to do I, I went these steps. But meanwhile they changed, you know, and so I did the steps. I was involved in the ninth grade, ninth wait to go up to move school, like some, uh, a special school school for sociology pedagogy. And then, um, they told me, well, now you need to have a one year school before you get to our school another. Yes. And then I did this and when I finished that, they told me, now you need to do a one year internship again because it was not the right order. I said, no, that's enough. Don't do that again. So, and that was the reason I orientated my journey in another way because I didn't want to lose another year because of the order of the bureaucracy. And so, um, I thought, what can I do else? What do I like? And I thought, I love to travel. Maybe I could do something, um, with traveling. And so I, I started, uh, training and, uh,

Speaker 6:

okay.

Speaker 5:

Travel agency. No. And, um, during that time I met the[inaudible]

Speaker 7:

mama[inaudible].

Speaker 3:

And how old were you at this point in your life when you started the travel agency?

Speaker 5:

Um, I, was 18. Yes, 18.

Speaker 3:

Oh my goodness. You're so young still.

Speaker 5:

You think so at that time?

Speaker 6:

Yeah.

Speaker 5:

So, yeah, when I, um, met the missionaries, so that was a a time, so I had my own apartment at time and, um, I, um, started thinking about, um, the purpose of life and I had pumped in my home, um, from the Jehovah witnesses and, uh, they, they, they knocked door to door and left this conflict. And, and then I started to read it and that made me thinking that, well, I used to pray when I need something, but when I'm okay, I don't pray. And this, um, pamphlet and, you know, the terrible witnesses are very much into, uh, the second coming off of. And it makes me thinking like, well, I grew up with the faith that will show a class would come one day and, but I don't think about it very much. And so I, it made me thinking, so what is if Jesus Christ would come back now with you, say like, hi, I belong to you, but you don't care just when you need something. And so that made me a little bit reflecting over myself and thinking it's not very fair that the faith behave I have. So, and I decided for myself to, to pray more, not only when I need something and I thought maybe it would be helpful to have, um, a community to share this faith. And I thought of a motto but my own faith. So in the Catholic church, and I didn't go very often after I left my home. Um, I just go, went to church from time to time when there was aU mass because it was with a, with a bed and he was a m ore m odern, not, I didn't really like, u m, u h, I didn't really like the liturgy, but it was not. So my thing. And so I, I love t he modern mass with B en, but it was just f un, but I was not really in that group b ecause I went to t his from time to time. So I thought, and I, I was missing missing, um, the, the friendship in the church. And so there was no friendship because I left the group four years before because I, I was living, um, in, uh, and how is with, with you when I was vaulting, um, which were not very, very easy, but I was the only one who was, um, going to church from time to time. This is this, this is a part of my life. Um, so because of my father, he was a very strongly Catholic and, um, he was very, he say, so he didn't allow me to, to do a lot of things. And, um, he, he was today I would say he was very jealous. And, um, um, one day I left, I left my home by the help of the[inaudible] Carolyn[inaudible]. So it was, it was really okay. So, um, it was a tough time, um, in, in my house. So I, I could leave my house. Um, it was, he was very Myland, so yeah. So[inaudible][inaudible] and um, it was a very tough time. So I left my home when I was partying and it's a new house that was the best time have to up the mine and tough time of my step.

Speaker 3:

So, Oh my goodness. You're on your ear. Left your house at 14. That's, well, no wonder you said the 18 wasn't that young because when you've been on your own for four years, I bet it didn't really feel that young at all. That's incredible. Son tall.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. And so that was the reason I didn't have the context, the Catholic youth anymore because so at least four years I was given these new tasks, but they will not any eating. I went to church anytime, so I took them back to my, um, my mind desire to be more close to God, um, was like, which community wants help me to make loans to practice law and not, uh, own crane in? And that was the point I thought about the scripture in the Bible, which says, um, well sneaker will find. And I thought, okay, I would like to find a church which pleases God. So I do sad that we'll see Fiddler side. And I said, God, if there was a church, um, which pleases memos, let me find it. And I promised it to be open. And after this prayer, I, it was a very, um, um, strong moment when I read this, I, I could feel the presence of God. And it was, um, there was a connection from my heart and I thought, this is a very important step in, I know now. And, and I, I was open from that day on. I wanted to find out if, if God would show me church, which pleases him most. And so I went to work and one day I came back by train from[inaudible] to amygdala. My, my office was in Braman and I saw a small emission of these with that name. Tex and I went into the train and the train was full. That day was a Friday and Friday is when people go home, um, who come to work in big cities and the soldiers went home. And so it was so full and I passed the section with the, the places were empty when I thought maybe it's reserved and I pass that the train was full and this passage was empty. But Peter came and it pushed me back. And so I thought, okay, I go into this section. And I went, I went into this section set down and then one elder came into that room as well. And I saw the name tech. And I thought, this is a church guy because some years before, maybe one year, um, they knocked door to door at my house to mission. And I had a good conversation with them, but was afraid to cause of sectarian. And I told my parents that I meeting some people who talk about Bible and then my stepfather said, well, um, who I have these people and then, and are those, are they, do you have a witness? I didn't know. And then he said, mom's, I said, that might be because they had a book of prom on and wanted to talk about what, that wasn't even a fan Mo, I just want to talk about the Bible. And so he said, ABI capital, this is these acid Syrians and they are very dangerous. That's always a little bit afraid that you have thought. And I had a good friend in my school, he was uh, in the three church and I told him, I said, school day, do you know that the Bible every well isn't it? And I said, and your dad as well? He said, yes, I would like to invite you to my house. There are two missionaries come into my house and I don't want to meet with them anymore. And I don't know how to tell them, let's come again. Then, uh, we said, okay, I can come. And I said, could you bring up that as well? Okay. And so they came and we had this appointment with news news and they were very happy and I brought two people mold and then they said, and then we talk. It was a nice conversation. They were very nice. And then they invited the church and then we'll this, that, that well, you have your faith and sometimes has her faith and we have a, so I don't want you to come again, just leave her alone. Like I was a little bit of a shame, but this is what I wanted. And then they said, okay, and that was it. They didn't come again. Yeah. And so now one in eight, I'm sitting in this train and this elbow and I, I remembered that, um, I was ever, this is shame that I send them away, but I thought it's, it's cool that they had been bottled. Yeah. And then I said, after my pray out, maybe got one to show me something. I hope he would talk to me. I would like to listen again. But now this time I want you to, Oh, and so, and I thought, please talk to me that, well, what are you driving to? I was like, I'm going to diamond most. And it was just 15 minutes to go. I said, and you had a mission. And he said, elder, you know, and then I said, yeah, I met some, uh, and year ago. And so fine. Then they said, are you interested to, to talk? And I said, yeah. And then I gave my telephone number and the the same evening they call. So I met, uh, missionaries. And this time I was open and I listened very different. So the first time, and uh, when they told me, I was very amazed because, um, it was something like, Hmm, he's, he wasn't the same situation like me. He was searching. So that, that was something that really got me and the most important thing youth, like I thought God gave me an answer because the stereo tells us no for something. The Navy, I mean, he, he said that, um, uh, after he spray out that he, um, saw God and he was, cause that really impressed me because it looked like miracles can happen. Yeah. Because it wasn't another cause for me that, uh, God answered my play on this, uh, in this, um, in this foam it happened. And so, um, even though, um, it was a miracle, it took a time for me to convert. Um, I had a friend and that time we met them. Um, I met him in the school I went to for the training and he was also very open to revision then. So we were taught together and I think it was because of him that, um, I converted at time. So, um, through my job I had to interrupt, um, the missionary connection and when to create a Greek. And, uh, in that time I read all the pamphlets about, um, Joseph Smith what happened and yeah. Um, that was also very mind blowing for me what happened to him. But I also talked to people like there was a professor who, no, no, no, he, no, he changed the professor. He told me, um, things about the moves and that they have death penalty. You, Utah and Alex, like, uh, I was an activist in the 80s for, and this a national that again, um, death penalty. You met me when I come home. And so when I came home from treat, after this were a wig, my, the missionaries met my boyfriend and they prepared him to, um, to be bedtime. So I came home in his head and he said, Oh, I want you to do that Texas wax. I thought if we do that together, like why do we want to do that ties. Um, and so the thing is with me, they gave us things to read and I was very busy with work and with hobbies and, and, and, um, so I didn't really read the things they gave us and to it out. And even though I, and I came back with all these questions, I say, isn't it true that you have? And they said that I said, no, this is not okay. And I had a lot of questions also in the moment. So the thing that, um, it was so mad oriented, so no, no woman, uh, um, always, um, about, it was a male on mentee. And so, um, even though I had this question, but my boyfriend wanted to get that type and I asked myself, what made you to do this decision? The thing is with them, the church, what I see today is, um, you

Speaker 8:

need to have the desire to do that. So I thought, I want to find out if it's really true, like initially say that I need to play about it and I want to read all this stuff and really ask God. And then I, but they have some, sometimes late. And I went to work with the book of moment and all the pamphlets and thought, okay, I, we read in the train and anytime I have, I will read my break, I will read. And so it was a Saturday I went to work and this Saturday, um, I, it was not my part to, to work. I didn't need to work every Saturday, but because of my vacation on time, it was not vacation. It was work. And the time, uh, it's, um, I thought it's my plan to, to work. That Saturday there was another training we changed. And so, um, it was not my part. So I went there and she said, no, you're not supposed to work today. Okay, no problem. I can go. So I have, I have had free time and now, and the thing is in the morning I prayed and said to God that, um, that he should give me time to read because, um, I told him, I really don't find the time to read and maybe I'm organizing myself well enough, please help me to find time to read and now I go to work and, and don't need to work. And I said, Oh God, thank you. No, I have time. And um, I went to the, um, Liza river, it was close to my work and set there, very, uh, on a bang, very lonely place. And it was a magic thing. And I say, so the rates were in the sea, in the river. I felt blessed and uh, thank you God that he gave me time. And that is, it is so beautiful today. I sat the whole day there and I had an appointment after my work with, um, a friend who wanted to do some music together. And, um, we lived close to my, um, wicking place. And, um, but I sat there the whole day and forgot the time I was leaving and praying. And the pamphlet was the pamphlets I had with questions and in scriptures and the Bible and the book of Mormon, I compat. And from time to time some people came and sat by me and I talked to them and they were also answers to my questions. So it was a very magical day and the things were the complex. You go for the question and then he says at the end, what shall you do? And the answer is, it was in Alma somewhere. It said, is it just no desire to[inaudible] with the, with the green, um, and to, to, to help the sick and put so far, what do you have against that ties? And this is something I really was into. I, I, I love to help people and to listen. And that got me this, this clip should go off me. And, um, I, I thought, okay, I want to do that ties as well. This is how it worked. And I really felt this, this is very, very strong that day. And yeah. And then I went very late to my appointment and told him, Hey, I will be bad ties tomorrow. And he tried to tell me, wow, this is bullshit. And I have a uncola, he's a pretty, he's been, he had many, he had sex with many women. And so my friend came from Canada. Rude. And, um, yeah, I said no. Anyway, I want to be, I if you like, you can come to my baptism as well. And the thing is the vet tourism, uh, of my boyfriend was the next day. And maybe that was the reason I wanted to, um, to find out what happened. And maybe I had the desire to do that type of, well, so I was open to it and through these experiences I was ready. And then I called the missionaries and I said, Hey, listen, I, um, read the whole day and I want you to baptize tomorrow. Yeah. And so I, I had to have, uh, in the morning, some last lecture and, um, and then in the afternoon I was baptized, my boyfriend.

Speaker 9:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:

So Sean, tell, let me stop you just for a second. What, um, what, what did your family and friends think about, um, you getting baptized into the LDS church?

Speaker 9:

Yeah.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. So my, my, my stepfather was not happy at all cook because we do a very Catholic. And my mom also said, no, don't do that. When I met the mission of these already, in that time, she invited a priest, uh, to come to talk to him until the missionaries, not to, to, to be involved with them. But, uh, I said, okay, you can come. But he didn't come. Yeah. And so she, she really tried hard, um, to, not that I don't go this way with the missionary, so, but, uh, I was old enough, um, so I just did it. My parents were not there. So I was baptized with my boyfriend. My friends didn't know about it. So, um, when I met a good friend of mine after nuns, they didn't see each other because of the work. You know, I worked in Braman and she worked in diamond hustle. I didn't work any anyway, you don't have, um, this, um, connection to your friends anymore when you start working in a different city so you don't see each other. And I, I also had a job, uh, to my, um, work. I worked in a fitness center because the money was not enough and Hartman. So from the money of the fitness center I could buy food. And so I was very busy, so I didn't have really time with my friends. Once I met a friend of mine I didn't see for months and she saw me and she said, wow, you look so happy. What happened to you? And you know, it was just such a visionary. Well, I'm probably going into the church of Jesus Christ and I wanted to tell her everything and, and, and pay through a book of home on and everything. So I was really into that. Every, any friend I, I met, I was telling them about it. And that's the thing. So when I, um, uh, get my work and my break time, I took a book of mama and I was in the pot and was reading, and then I was talking to people and then I always gave him my book. So I don't know how it came. I was such a missionary. I was like, it always came that I talked to people and then, and then, um, Oh, you can have my book. It's maybe good. And then I had to get another book for me and I always gave away my own book. And that was the time I thought, ah, it was, it would be so good to have the whole day time to the mission. So, um, then this is, this is what happens when you don't, when you're young. So the missionaries in that time were my age. And, um, so you, you have the desire to do the same now I was like, Oh, it's such a miracle that I've found this church and, um, maybe there is someone like me was searching and I would like to do, um, the same opportunity to the person and so yeah. And I didn't feel, um, so I changed my mind. I would like more to be more honest to who play moral, to be low in the scriptures and, and then, uh, so at work, um, and I had the word of wisdom that was, I mean I was not someone who drank a lot and I didn't smoke smoke. He is, I stopped that when years before, but like coffee, you know, and drink coffee. And in my work I stopped making coffee. Normally sometime I just sit up and cook coffee. Yeah. And then now I didn't do it because I didn't do it for myself. So when my colleague say, Oh, what's about coffee? Okay. Then I did it, but I didn't do it anymore from me, from my side. So sometimes when people were talking, uh, to my colleagues, I just brought some coffee. I didn't do that anymore. So crazy.

Speaker 3:

Well, giving up coffee for a German is a very, very big deal. Very big.

Speaker 8:

Yeah, it is. Yeah. And my, my boss, he liked black tea but he didn't care. So I started to cook cocaine and then he always said, Oh, what's that? Well, so if he doesn't say exactly he wants black tea, you do a different look. Crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

It is a little crazy. You're right.

Speaker 8:

And well so and um, yeah and, and the other thing is, um, I didn't feel very comfortable in that work and long because um, yeah, it was a lot of not if you, if you go this way, look, there was a time, um, I also started to do fasting there. Normally you, you do pray and fast the first Sunday of first weekend in the month and um, I was so into it that I learned, okay, if you have something special you can pray for, you can fast so you can do it not only once a month. And so I started fasting because like my boyfriend, he started to have, he was very quick in the convert[inaudible] but it was more, um, so he was more friends with two of the elders than the con conversion. And then very quickly you wanted here does it desire like to drink beer. And so, and I was very, um, I, I thought I need to pray and fast for days. And so I prayed and fasted in the weeks and one day I was fasting and, um, we had a presentation in the office.

Speaker 10:

Mmm. Mmm.

Speaker 8:

And, uh, it was, um, a travel agency, which trains agencies. Yeah. So, and there was a lady from Austria, she came and she brought some wine and she brought some,

Speaker 10:

um, some, uh,

Speaker 8:

delicious food so that we have the presentation on the computers and, um, have some line and, and food. And I was fasting. So then she asked, well, who is drinking wine? And then my colleague said,[inaudible] because we were on the road, who was drinking wine when we had events. And I said, no, no, I don't want, um, I just want water. And then she said it's a weird and the last time, what, what's wrong with you? And then not only that, I didn't drink any wine. I didn't want, no, I didn't say what, nothing I didn't want because I was fasting. So, um, I didn't eat and I didn't drink. Yeah. Because it was my, I was so weird. Yeah. And um, and so the relationship to my colleagues was a little bit complicated to my behavior. Yeah. Cause I was so craving and I didn't feel you feel competent and I wanted to have more time to do so. Um, then we had, uh, some w we had a 70 home evening once a week with a sanity because I didn't have any in the church. And uh, my friend either. So we met with, uh, with, with a CAPA with no children and we met once a week to have the[inaudible]. We read the scriptures and had some, uh, food. And so they set like something, uh, emission is a good preparation for a marriage because you learn stills, you can meet as a couple. And I thought it would be great. And I said, so, uh, to my boyfriend, would you like to serve a mission? And you say, no, I'm too old. So he was already 25.

Speaker 6:

Okay.

Speaker 8:

And then, um, and I ask people, is it too old to go on this? People say no sometimes though the people and even more than 25. And then I told him once, because I was so much in missionary work, I told him, that's what you think. If I go to mission, what do you wait for me? And then he said, well, sure thing. So, okay. And then I was so excited I go to, so the mission and um, but for girls, um, it was not necessarily to serve a mission if you have a partner. So the most important thing was to get married. Um, and so my Bishop said, how are you doing? You need to go, you don't need to go except said that I want to. And then, um, we had these, um, uh, if you need it at the cook inlet at blessing. And then I asked one of the missionaries, I said, well, could you give me a blessing? I want you to know, I'm kind of skeptical. I would like to go to a mission, so I'd want to have a blessing. I've got things about that. And this Ella gave me this blessing and said, you won't be up such a great mission. Knowing God is so thankful. That was my blessing. Yeah. And that was like, yeah, let's go. And when, then when my Bishop said, well, you don't need to, I said, well, I just need the last thing and I, I should go. Well, when the blessing says should go. So, um, then my boyfriend said, well, um, then, then I would go, I was at admission as well. Yeah. He was supposed to go short after me. So the MTC and then I stopped in Missouri there Munich mission from humble mission.

Speaker 6:

Yeah.

Speaker 8:

And my boyfriend never showed up. So when I was gone, um, he had something with the girl and he was not allowed to go on a mission anymore and he even got the extra mutated. And I didn't know about that till my first city. I was surprised I didn't get any of that. But once you sent me a letter talking, what happened, sorry. And then I come back. And so yeah, that's my mission was a very, very good experience. Um, I was out, I was very sad cause because we wanted to get married them come back. So I thought he is the one and we just gave our time to God and then can have a happy marriage. But um, yeah, so the first, the first few weeks I was um, a man, I was very upset and I got a blessing as well. But, uh, I concentrated on my, my mission was, it was a good experience.

Speaker 3:

It sounds like it was. I almost always hear returning missionaries talk about what a good experience it was. Well, it's either an excellent experience or a horrible experience. One of the two. There's rarely one in the middle where it's like, ah, it was okay, but I'm glad you had a good experience even though was

Speaker 8:

good. So when you grew up in the church, but as a convert, it's something very different because you have different experience, you have experience more miracles and um, Julie, you're more open to things I think. I don't know. So I had a lot of miracles and probably my mission, so crayon, which were answered and psych words, but I had companions like who I want to companion. She was not on a mission off by her decision and you could see that. So she really didn't want to work and I was very mad, said, well, you don't want to look, just go home. Why, why are we wasting my time? But, um, this is, uh, the mission also was something to learn, really, to learn to be humble and to, to, to allow, because Lil, you know, 24 hours with a companion and then you already learned skills, you need the marriage as well.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah. I haven't thought of it like that. Being that close to someone for that long. I bet you do learn a lot of good communication skills. That's awesome. Yeah. So how old were you by this point when you returned from your mission?

Speaker 8:

Oh, okay.

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

no.

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

yeah. And the thing is my mission and hemming. Yeah. So I didn't tell something about any,

Speaker 3:

I know, I'm so excited to hear about how you met Henny.

Speaker 8:

So, Hey, um, was a state commissioner and the, I think the second, the second, um, discussion with the missionaries, they brought him to my house as a, to work to support the missionary. And he was so excited about the church and everything, but I was in the beginning was my[inaudible] the missionaries news to ask you in the second discussion, uh, if you have not not asked, but they tell you to get that ties. Yeah. Where'd you, where'd you get that size? And they did that on the second discussion. And Henny was part of a day. And then as it, yeah, we would be baptized. And I said, no, I'm already baptized. And um, they tried to tell me about the decision, what to the probate is that it's not necessarily said no, I was not a baby when I was baptized. And, um, so, and Henning was so excited and say, Oh, this should be something cool. And, um, I thought, who is this guy? And then he didn't do this, then I don't want to be baptized. So that was the first meeting with Henning. I said, I thought he's weird, but, um, later on something happened, um, before my mission. So I went to sir it's mission to Rochester. And, um, before he went on his mission needed to go through the temple. And I met him, uh, at the, at the station when he was on the way to work. And I don't, I don't remember. Uh, no, no. That something happened before. Like, so why I was in Romanda tending said one. Um, Oh, I'm so excited. I'm going to get my patriarchal blessing. I said, and I was, um, very, uh, I wanted to know everything about the church because I, I wanted to absorb everything. Cool. You're getting your blessing when you come back. You need to tell me about your blessing. He said, no. Okay, I want to do that. And so week later he had his blessing adding by the way it had of elephant and I had my boyfriend. So, but when he um, came back from his blessing, I asked him, Hey honey, you want me to tell you about your patriarchal blessing? And he was a little bit, um, yeah, a little bit unconfident. I said, well, it's very personal bot. I promise to tell you about it. So I would tell you that not ever. I said, yeah, go, go. I'm gone. And then he was telling some things about his blessings and then he said something about the girl he would marry and then it hits me from the top of my head through my body. And then I stopped, was like, what was that? No, it's not me. And then he said, why did you want to know everything? I said, it's enough now. It's enough. And I thought, I hope he didn't recognize that I felt this. Yeah. So that was what happens with him and Ben when, before he went to the 10th and then I met him on the station. It was something magic. And as I said, why do I lose him now to tempo? And I was very jealous because I wanted to go from the 10th to going on him. And so I didn't want to read heading every time because that was weird. And I was with my boyfriend and I, it was a weird experience. And yet, now to go back to my mission, what happened with my boyfriend and then, and before the end of my mission, I was very afraid to go home. And then I, I prayed one night, it was in my, um, very last city. I was kneeling and praying during the night where my companion was sleeping and I talked to God. I said, God, I trusted you. I gave you my time and now you, why didn't you take care of my boy? No, what am I going to do when I go home? What, what, what, what will happen? And then I went to sleep and in the middle of the night, so I just heard a voice saying, tanning Malala. I was shocked. I looked to my companion if she heard it as well. Yeah. And that was something that as well and miracle. Yeah. But it was a miracle. I didn't want to know because I thought, no, why, why do I pray a note in my this name? Why? So, um, of course you think, um, it must have something to do with your few jobs, but you're not really ready, you know, feelings. I'm not ready for that. And then, uh, when I came home, um, of course, uh, Henny was in my city, so we were a small, we were not many members in our city going to Braman. And, um, so, um, yeah, we, we had, we the youth, the young adults, we met the things together and, and Henny was a good friend, so I could talk very good to him. And, um, so I tried to be just, um, he didn't know about my, what Mike students is. I just wanted to, to let go of things. Yeah. And I also talked to my, my[inaudible] and, um, and he was such a liar. I tried to, to, to thrust and listen again and just finished it. And, um, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Did hinting have the same sort of experiences that you did that you found out about later?

Speaker 8:

Yeah. So one time he, uh, he was with his friend. They, they just, um, took their bikes with a tent and went into the woods and he's, he's nice, like, like, um, uh, adventures. So he wasn't with his friends. And, um, and then he told me later that he, uh, he wa he had something that could three men, just so my eye very close. So something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So what happened? Like when did you end up getting together and getting married and

Speaker 8:

on the time? So it was, um, I mean, uh, we, we, uh, we, we shad time, so we had femini home evening, I invited all the young adults to have a house with my parents. So I moved back to my parents, um, uh, before my mission because yeah, I had an apartment and I had my furnitures and everything, and then they, they, meanwhile, they had a house. And so I, I took my friends to my parents during my mission and after my mission I was leaving. And so, um, uh, yeah. And off to cook. And I did all the young adults missionary style house with, um, home evening there. So with scripture reading and eating and singing and lay to keep taught. We had a good time. And, um, and sometimes we, we have also a like, um, there's something like, like you have camps. Yeah. So similar, not, not camp, but just, um, be in a house with all the young adults and, uh, put together scripture readings. So we did some, something like that. And we also had one meeting. It's think Knutson a, it was an Institute, um, meeting. So we, we did a lot of scripture study and it was very, very spiritual and they're tanning that, um, these go and that time. So he was not the friend who was together during his usage. She married someone that someone else. Um, and then he met, uh, this, this girl, um,[inaudible] um, but, and I, I was totally, um, not into heading because I didn't have the feeling I had these experiences, but not this feeling yet. Yeah. No.

Speaker 10:

Mmm.

Speaker 8:

And so, uh, I was okay with that. Um,[inaudible] girlfriend and when she came to them and how she could play, she could sleep at my place to, cause it was not allowed to stay in one bed when they were not married. So she stayed at my place when, um, when she came from Hanover to the attending and it was totally okay for me. And, um, yeah. Then my mom did for me, which really this is,

Speaker 10:

uh,

Speaker 8:

confused me. She, she had told me, um, uh, he, he's not in the office, his glove saying, how do you, why, why did he say that? Told me that, that he lost wax. Why would he say that to you?

Speaker 10:

And, um,[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

but anyway, it was, it was out of the blue that my mom said that because that wasn't on unit two and, and I was not, it was, but that made me a little bit thinking, Oh, why would you say that? Why did I have these experiences? And, and maybe, I don't know, but no, he hasn't, but that's okay with me. And then, uh, uh, there was a time his brother died, then young who was just, and I wasn't, I'm sorry about that. And I just went by to his house to get my common answer. It was shortly before Christmas. And then, um, yeah, thank you. And then said, Oh look, I want to show you something. And then he bought a ring. I'll have to give it to her. Uh, that shocked me and I was, I was, I was surprised that violet knew that he had a rating and know, uh, all these dogs. So I, I knew it was in the computer, but my feeling lie, I have reacted this way, but later on she broke up with him and then I thought, well, no, you want me to, so find out if heading is the right person before he gets another girlfriend. And then I talk to God again. I said, okay, heavenly father, he gave me these, I had these strange experience, this penny, but um, I don't, how have this, I don't have these hearings like someone is in love. So if you see a heading, having the right person for me and I need to have these feelings. And then I, um, I prayed and I said, Oh, maybe, maybe I'm admitted that the locked, so help me to be open.

Speaker 6:

Okay.

Speaker 8:

That's how, that's, that's the funny thing. So, and then I went to, um, and then with the younger tiles and Henning[inaudible] come there. I was there and I really missed him. And then I just took a walk and, and called him. And then he said, well, I was at your house today. I said, why? You know that I'm here? Yeah, I forgot. I said okay. And then we made a date. So when I come back and it just, it just hit me like a hammer after my brand. Isn't that weird?

Speaker 6:

Okay.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. And after this call and then when I came back, we have a, we had a first date with my new feelings and his was there. So that was the time we came together then.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Okay, well keep going, keep going forward. Uh, so, uh, you were with hitting now and you are, I don't know how old you were at this point and you're both members of the LDS church. Uh, can we move or unless there's something you want to talk about, but can we move to a place where you started to feel like the LDS church was not the place for you? Was it you who started to feel that way? Was it hitting?

Speaker 8:

How did that work out? Well, you know, I never thought that the church is not the right place because for me to fit to get there was such a miracle that I thought God put me on this pace, but I'm heading so to submission in the States. So his English was very good. He got to read all these books about history and so he knew a lot more than me about the reality in church. But, um, I never listened to that because I was very busy and I had a lot of colleagues in the church. When I came back from my mission, I was, I had a call in the safe young woman presidency and it was very busy with that. And after having an I came together, um, the steak, um, um, started a little branch in diamond and[inaudible] was the branch precedent, but he had no counselors. So we had that were very few people. Um, and a lot of work and responsibilities. Yeah. There's few people who came and there were a few people who were willing to do something. Yeah. Hemming had just this, you know, the, the, the gospel taught in the RDS is to be perfect. No, it needs to be perfect. Like Christ is perfect. And he started to feel very uncomfortable with that because I mean, he had a lot of responsibility and didn't feel like he's still fitting out with, you know, and so he had a great quick problem with guilt, not doing everything and having weaknesses and it was a burden for him. And, um, so I was the happy goal always seeing the positive who the church and having all positive experiences and yeah. But I didn't really see the burden he had. Yeah. And he tried to get out of it somehow. And then we, we hit our first seminar. That was also because Samuel cam, it was also a miracle happened to us. So we were married, but he didn't have a child. So it took time and he thought he wouldn't get children and, and he had to take some medication for a time and then he said, no, no, it's not because I, yeah. And then one day that was a high priests visit to diamond Haas and he asked any indication of getting a blessing. And then he said, then any came home and said he wrote his journal. Is that I want to lead you to read something to you and this blessings that I do, I will have a boy. And she may even Samuel. Oh wow. How could he save something like that? And then, uh, I, I was waiting, let's see. Then I got pregnant and still, I was not very faithful. I was like, huh, 50 50 chance. What is, it's the goal, but it was a boy then. And that was something that I can that go again. So[inaudible] yeah, but still Miguel was there, the word Kotler let enough people to help. And then, uh, so also when I was, um, I didn't go to work anymore, it was Henning. Amy was setting and when I had the baby, um, he studied meant to go to custody. Well, when, yeah, it was a glow and he studied go over managed group, international studies of Hoover management and um, we normally we gland to that I could let go if you know what this illness. So meanwhile, after my mission, I, I started to work as a trainee, as a nurse and my education was a nurse. So, um, yeah. Uh, so it wasn't all possible going to go Costa Rica then. And he started to search for work because I wasn't working full time. Wanted to do that for the child because there's a moment when you have a child and stay at home and yeah, that was a tough time. Um, maybe Henan can tell his story when himself he went through, but it came that we had to move to Frankfurt. He had a great opportunity there that he could, um, um, cap other family, um, work. And, um, when we moved to front books, I think this is the time, um, getting started.

Speaker 7:

So, um,

Speaker 8:

and then the patient itself more and more from the teachings of the IDs church and when a dominant was born was the time he wanted to break out. And he searched for help. And the, um, free church had meetings there but still said, Kate, I can go on to church and the children can go out in the church.

Speaker 10:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

then if they want the cancer and I, for me, it's not the right thing anymore. And that was a time for me, which was very hard because I thought, well, you're supposed to be in Jonathan was even the tempo. I know he's leading the way and it was a very tough time, um, for me. And I didn't understand him. Just, uh, went on the wa the way I was taught over the years and the mindset I had, the thing is in them, in the mindset of Norman church is when someone leaves the church, then it's because of his, I'm not obedient enough or he has, he has issues with the things. And, and, and this is the mindset, um, which is not healthy for her relationship. You know, you, you think, um, uh, you married a different person and now he's leading the way and um, and you just got to see, um, mistakes, you know, it's just step to look to partner in a different way. And I think, um, yeah, that was a tough time. Um, but what, what helped us is that we both love Jesus Christ and he was like a[inaudible] faith. And that always helped us, um, get back to each other, you know. So there were times, like when you get through the church, you get these teachings, how a family should be, and you're always a search for the mistakes and no spouse because you are in the church. Yeah. And he's not there and he's going a different way. And so nowhere that was thoughts like deep balls and it's easier to, to, to, to, to have, um, the same goals, different goals and the children, um, have one direction and not different, but no, we, we overcame these things. But during that time I felt very

Speaker 11:

uncomfortable and alone, um, and were living in Parkwood

Speaker 8:

and I left my work, like my work and Braman, but I still had the contract. So because of the tutor I said, so I take a break, I'm still signed in and whenever I want I can come back.

Speaker 12:

Huh.

Speaker 8:

And now I felt so[inaudible] and Frankfurt and miss my, my, uh, friends and family. And because in the church you have Napa, Sundays you'll have visiting teacher who are nice. But, uh, I felt, um, very, very lonely then. And then we, we, um, I had friends out of, outside of the church, but, um, I felt spiritual knowing my purpose, what, what, what is my purpose? And I always liked to be independent. I don't like to be dependent on and um, we wanted to buy an apartment

Speaker 11:

and then we're looking for an apartment in the amnio hug. What? And it was so expensive,

Speaker 8:

but our relationship was not very healthy. And I uh, like why should I buy an apartment? Um, Outback because in the Outback is it's cheaper than the city and um, no friends here and their relationship is not

Speaker 11:

really healthy. No, I don't want to buy an apartment. Yeah.

Speaker 8:

I go back to Northern Germany, go back to work and buy, buy a house in Northern Germany, close to my parents and my friends and my work. So I made this decision for myself and I told him so I don't work with idols or close to crazy household. So, and then a pop me who've met me that living many different people and you have to get with people, sorry, something to be done in the house you meet and get the position. I said, I don't want these because this is so expensive and you're not independent. And then often done and you get a house for that even cheaper and you have no work clothes, you have family clothes. And so, um, and my relationship, so I said, no, I don't know. I am looking for a house in Northern Germany and my mom's going to take care of the children. I go back to Jim Nelson journey none. Then he said, well, okay, and then, um, I come with you. So he was really very patient. Yeah. And so we searched one house, I talked to my dog, I said, Oh, I want to connect. Um, I will start to work.

Speaker 13:

[inaudible]

Speaker 8:

at the beginning does to come to come back into the subject and the thing, because I was[inaudible] and then uh, yeah, I started when we found a house, my mom took care for my boys and I went back to work, but it didn't work out because my mom is, um, she, she had my niece as well sometimes and, but my mom was sleeping. A lot of the children would ship just over the place and doing whatever they wanted. It was not a reading, you can well there. And then I said, Oh no, it doesn't work. And then I, I searched for someone to care for my children to pay. I pay for other person. And um, the house we bought was slap on my work and a long, long distance to go and heading sales steak in front foot. So he, he, um, he was looking for a job and humble look and then he got it. But to me he had to, it's all, it was also very fast to get there. So it was just a crazy idea to get there. The house was good, but, um, the, the circumstances were very crazy. The job, um, I had, um, now I know to go back to my, to my work, but my youngest side, he was, he got sick so often and I really felt bad to bring to the day they care and caring for other people. Why am I, my son was sick and then I took, um, medication for you, get some free time when you're[inaudible]. Um, but um, this time was, uh, I took them all because he was sick so often. So I ha I really didn't have any, um, um, vacation, probably sick kid and Mark was all Trenton. And then I really felt bad at my job was tough. There was always a lot to do and I, I brought the kids like in the morning to the DayCaf now why they were sleeping and then, uh, came back late and, and then, um, so I really didn't have much time for them and it didn't feel good. Me, it didn't work out or to work in the Naro and um,[inaudible] went back to front board, um, work from[inaudible] and then for a year and then you had to find something else. So we had to move to unit. And, um, when we moved to Munich, um, that was a time, um, we came back to church with us because it was a different, well, but then he left again. Hmm. And then I was, I was still fighting to come back and this brought me to the, he went out of the church in North Germany who was, um, he resigned from the church. And when we were back in your neck, I really got him this bag again.

Speaker 6:

Okay.

Speaker 8:

And then there was a change of, uh, leadership and, um, he, um, he left the church at Penn and I felt, um, I, I could see that it was not okay to wait. They cheated him and was really listening and we had a new, I would had a good relationship. And so we, we, uh, tried to find something comparable for all of us. So when we moved from a monopoly part of Munich Outback to not Munich, we tried to find a congregation. Um, we all would like, so Henning sound a big church families and we visited them and, uh, it felt good. So it wasn't nice. Uh, congregation and, um, the children went with them to Pentecost, had spiritual experiences, but still, um, preach much. People hate moments, costs. And I'm so like Samuel, he will very open to talk of these. Said, well, what he talked about the church and, and they, yeah. So I was not, um, against the church. I just wanted to have my family together in Christ. I didn't care which church, just that we all had together and, um, and, and, uh, practice on hot face and prizes still put them in. And so, but I had nothing against the church, so, and, but I didn't like when they, when someone talked that, you know, the church and, um, we had, um, we, we thought about joining this congregation, but then really nice something was making missing class. And then Henning a saw on the homepage that there was a, um, community of Christ in Augsburg. And I started, so when we went together to this congregation, free church congregation, then heading stuff going and I was alone going to this congregation. And then I thought, well, if I'm the only person to go, then I can go back to the Roman church by Malone anyway, because I don't have anything against it. So I went back to the Mormon church and I'm heading, asked me, well, there was a convention, community congregation, you know, I would like to visit. I said, what is it? And he said, yeah, it's the church which went with Emma.

Speaker 4:

Okay,

Speaker 8:

that's a restoration tradition church. And I said, Oh, interesting, I would like to come. So we need consistent. Um, and he was so nice with patron hos and, and um, me tie. We're also a nice couple. And I was supposed to Christ. Um, the talk was, um, it touched me and even the communion was similar. So the blessing seminar, uh, like I, I was used to but they didn't need very often. So who were there ones? And then sometime, and then I went back to[inaudible]. I had my callings, but I was, so when we moved to[inaudible] first was primary teacher, primary precedent, then I was, um, the society teacher and um, and once it was the funny things and asked me if I would like to teach Institute, well the young adult and um, that is a Saint Klein and they wanted to um, to talk to my husband if he's okay with it, but then never did cause they, that wasn't me also. So Jenny was very open to communicate, but he had his blog talking openly about things. So now people were afraid that it touched too. And I think, I don't know.

Speaker 5:

Um, finally I, I have this calling as a[inaudible] teacher, but they know I talk to him. I talked to him. Okay.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. So I have my calling point of the church. Recognize me alone sometimes with a boy. I saw the buys, I forced him to come until they were 14, and after 14 they could decide what to do then a horse by the time to time or just invite attending as well would meet again and have to come than any Oh man. Meeting again,

Speaker 5:

I was like, yeah, why not? And for that I, I didn't go to her mom on check. I went to outspoken with him. So this

Speaker 8:

or what's, um, um, yeah, I don't know who it started. And then there was the time I was, um, diagnosed, um, cancer. Breast cancer was, um, at the beginning of 2015 I just started a new job in surgery, uh, um, in, uh, Jennica over there and they would, they had a breast cancer people, all kinds of things. I started to work in this, um, competence center for this issue and, and got cancer myself. It was just, uh, and, um, my colleagues.

Speaker 5:

Um, and you should, and you should do a Tia because[inaudible] you have the,

Speaker 8:

and working with, uh, cause and this professor and you know, really go Tanzania. And so I did and they wanted to put me into study, uh, uh, for the treatment and for this, uh, I was not supposed to many people because of infection. And so I said, um,[inaudible] so I wouldn't be able to teach Institute anymore and come to church and are doing this treatment. That was the first time and

Speaker 11:

what 20 years. But I didn't go to church every Sunday and I had a not have time to do the thing. And it wasn't a shock of course that I had cancer or I had to, to find my weight and, and then a lot of work to take walks outside. So from the moment I was diagnosed, I didn't know I didn't need to go to work anymore. Normally when you work as a secretary or something, you can still go to work. But in my case, I'm at[inaudible]. This is a trauma and you don't need to come in and see what happens to people who have this. Yeah. So I, I was about to said I don't need to go to work and I had a lot of time to think and ponder and um, to read in that time, I started to meet an[inaudible] director, um, Daniel from, uh,[inaudible] notes. So Henny and, and needle are translating that into German. And that was very easy for me then. So I'm very lazy and so it's easy for me to read it in German. And so[inaudible] the, the pain is in that year in Institute, we started to lead a doctrine and covenants and cut off my prize. And I was afraid to keep that cause I hit some news news from it. So I was glad and I didn't need to go and to do it. And then I read this letter, many things can, you always told me this came, just hit me. And I understood what he meant in all the years. You know, the thing is that as uh, an active, uh, MoMA[inaudible] like took me a critic, things about church, you always try to rationalize and to um, to defend. This is what I was already used to now I was just open and just saw these dates. And sometime before, if all my dad knows also what, which helped me to get a better relationship to any loss or the podcasts of Jonathan. So he had ms podcast stay out. He asked her dog, and this is something I could do because it says stay out the ass, you know, I said, okay, you could have cannibalism. And then I heard all these stories, but honest people who, um, experience things which were not okay, but they still wanted to stay out here, you know? And um, I, I could see heading in that, how he was treated and how he was struggling. So, um, I listened to podcasts during the time I had time, so that were, meanwhile it was called mom's stories, let's say mom's stories. Comcast and I received a lot of stories and just, I just was[inaudible] how crazy this system is, but still I try to go to church sometime. I said I, I thought, Oh, maybe I just can go to second meeting because my mindset was, you need to go to church on Sunday. I missed that. And so I went just to sacrament and then it was the year close to the pad to go ahead.

Speaker 13:

No,

Speaker 11:

and I was really in danger and I did get to touch. I didn't want to touch anyone. And so, but when you come there, they come and want to hug of you. And it's neat. And I was like, and but from time to time I went any to Oxford community of Christ. So somehow started to go regularly when they met. And then there was this time in April when Richard James visited Alex book cause called herring. Well, what happened across the region? Jane's coming to Alex book and I wanna um, Shantara would like to have a blessing and, um, that was a big deal. Closet possibly coming to our house and offer a blessing was wow, that's neat. Said. Yeah, she would love to. So he talked to me. Oh cool. And so, um, Richard Lowery, Maguire

Speaker 13:

[inaudible]

Speaker 11:

and then they came and we talked, we had worked together, we share stories and, and then, uh, Richard asked me, uh, Jesus Christ would be here. What, uh, what's this question with me? Thought, wow, it's awesome. I don't know. Positive. He's, he's, he's interested in what Christ would do and that's how I see a witness of Christ yeah. Is to have the design world. And, uh, yeah, I, I had my, my thinking, my heart. You love that. But I said, I mean, I, I, my desire was always that my family is, um, in Christ, in Christ cotton, um,[inaudible] household. And so he gave me, and so, um, cost and onto[inaudible] and then, um, I can see that this blessing is, was very touched, very unique for me. And that was a,

Speaker 8:

this day was a changing,

Speaker 11:

um, my, um, strong belief that, uh, God has put me into the area's church

Speaker 8:

because came to my mind that, um, if I would ask today, which, which, which church

Speaker 11:

for me, the answer would be community and class.

Speaker 13:

[inaudible]

Speaker 11:

so that was, um,

Speaker 8:

the day I'll change. And that day I thought, Hmm, today is the day. Um, this was my best to them being that until the LDS church, when widget came to my house. And so, anyhow, I thought that this is a sign

Speaker 11:

that I, I changed my mind that God, um, there's another guys in scary to try to,

Speaker 8:

yeah. So I have my[inaudible]

Speaker 11:

fee and at the end of the therapy I was talking to[inaudible] therapy together. We just don't know. We talked about what's coming next and let this up believing. And so I told her about having everyone's[inaudible] class and I told her how much I like community of closet, but I don't know if I want to join as well.

Speaker 8:

And so we both joined, uh,

Speaker 11:

we're confirmed in a community class needs to come off 2015. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I can't remember when you were confirmed either. I don't know if I was still in Europe at that time. I left Europe in September, 2016 and I don't know if it happened. Yeah. So that's, it's a beautiful story. Shantel. It's really beautiful. And what a difficult transition for you time like have with the diagnosis of cancer and with leaving the LDS church and joining a different church. That's a huge, those are a lot of huge transitions for ya.

Speaker 11:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So now you and the hinting are both members of community of Christ.

Speaker 7:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

And was there an ordination in there somewhere for you?

Speaker 11:

Yeah. So, um, in that time when I, um, I join community of Christ, I had my surgery so we could get happy and then you get, um, the surgery because the cancer shell, Pete's smaller, but in my case it go again. And um, I had the surgery and then I had a second, um, cancer different and I needed to get him, yeah. A treatment again. She, she moved out with me again. So by the, um, 80%.[inaudible] yeah. Oops. Well, I started in the beginning of 2016 I started with a new treatment. Oh, she looked that up too. And that was ever member of cries and people were praying for me and were very nice and kind and, and I was shocked that I had to go through a Shimo canopy again. My hand was just going. And then again, that was a different shame when I said I wouldn't use all the hat again, but that's not that important. But, um, during that time, um, of my second shameful, I didn't know if I, how long I wouldn't be, I said I thought meaningful on people. This, this cancer I had was, um, very aggressive and, um, I didn't know how long I was just leaving from day to day and just don't know what comes next. And then, and then Joey

Speaker 7:

[inaudible]

Speaker 11:

the possibility to do seminary. Yeah. And this was, um, something that was so like a tendon mercy to me. So like, um, this option is that maybe

Speaker 7:

right.

Speaker 11:

Gave me the chance to live and, and, um, to do something almost. Uh, it wasn't any hopeful that, that gave me a lot of hope. I try to do all the paperwork for eight. And then there was a, also were companies[inaudible] 16, and it was, um, something I said, Oh, I would like to put the at work costumes and experience that maybe it's the only time in my life I can do that. And so I, um, Joey, um, that could count as, um, uh, so for the West moon mission, he could come at as delegates. And, um, I talked to my doctor, so I was, I finished my shame with MFE and then I had to do the radio tech and then I, I made an apartment. Um, other radiotherapy. And she asked me, um, if I have a plans this year, and I said, yeah, I would like to be, I would like to go to world conference for church, uh, in may. And just said, Oh, we could make it because that man event and um, and you can have, um, at the end you can have double shame with therapeutic can have in the morning and in the, in the evening and then we can make it. I said, really? She said, yeah, we can do that. So my doctors were all great, so whatever I had the desire to do, like going sailing with the sailing rebels, um, I could interrupt my chemotherapy and go and do that or moving to the break, three weeks break, I could go to Egypt. The doctors will also kind just, we just, um, um, helping to, to have a desire to live and to, to do whatever I would like to do. That was really unique. And so they made it possible that I, I could go to world conference. So I, I finished my radio therapy and uh, uh, in the morning and then I went to the airport to come to work conference the same day repenting. Yeah. And, um, during work conference I met, I was introduced to Mexico, uh, um, that, you know, of Graceland, have, you know, from[inaudible] and um, yeah, we were talking about the possibility for me stop the seminary and I think I started to do it. And um, so Richard also came to the unique and he started a group with us[inaudible] group. So we had a house church with some people and then, um, later on, so harvest helped us maybe Bronco and then we will, are they ordained as priests who have, um, the preparation of the bra with[inaudible] online preparation. And uh, I also came and visited. We were, are they as pleased and um, started off house trips and something really[inaudible]. I had the chance to baptize and um, you know, a small house catch. So she, uh, um, she, she was in the LDS church and she, she left the church and while doing time out we sickness. And the last for herself that it was not, she, she, she had new issues and because of a friend of mine who was in off most church, um, as it came to the teacher and, and she told him, well, if you're so happy, what happened? And then he told, uh, about her meeting at our house church, we had, um, wonderful, uh, meeting, uh, uh,[inaudible], John Haimer[inaudible] he gave the presentation and maybe we had some visitors from the lean in. I came and so, and also a friend, a farmer. So we had a great meeting. So this experience and this friend went to[inaudible] and told the about he's experienced a house church. She wanted to talk to come next time she came in, I knew her very well because yeah, of course the load[inaudible] and so she, she was very excited about the community of Christ and the teachings and was more related to her faith. And she really laid out confidence for me to, Jaren is a baptism. So I, I, I don't want this combination. I want to do that because I'm a business. Um, and the only way for me to to do it. Um, so the first time I was not really, it was not really me, but now it's me wants to, to make her come on this. So

Speaker 5:

you want it to be baptized. She wanted me to, to baptize them. It was a great honor. So to be will be pleased and I, it's a big deal as if, Oh my mom went to him.

Speaker 11:

You have a piece to it. And then to have the opportunity to baptize. That's great.

Speaker 3:

I mean, what a journey you've been on Shantelle from Rwanda to Germany to Catholic school to uh, to becoming a member of the LDS church, to becoming a member of Community Christ and then becoming a priest and community of Christ and doing baptisms and leading a house church. What an awesome and interesting life you've led so far. I'm sure that there's so much more that will come. I'm very excited about it.

Speaker 11:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 9:

Well,

Speaker 3:

I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. I know it's not always easy to talk about that. Those are some kinds of things like this, but I appreciate you being so open and vulnerable to do it. Uh, is there something else you want to say before we sign off?

Speaker 11:

One thing I was thinking about is a transition in my spiritual practice. Oh. And what I learned from the second world conference, um, it's, yeah, for my house church and also for my spirituality is bad. Um, well just listen to the podcast of Larry Robbin and yesterday, uh, the David book. And, um, so my center now I'm here with, we started, um, doing, uh, yoga and she gong at the[inaudible]. Um, and this is a spiritual practice for me as well. So she's, um, so church doesn't need to be something during the house church or in a church. It's been the friends on a Lake and, um, doing yoga like that and um, uh, she gong and, um, I'm very thankful for this new mindset and I hope, um, that next year. So right now because she broke help me, but, um, this is something new for me. A different spiritual practice, not only in church, but good congregations. And, um, yoga practice or meditation,

Speaker 3:

I think that is super, super important. And I am a big proponent of spiritual practices. I think it's really the only way that we're going to understand where God is calling us. So that's awesome. I love hearing that. Uh, well gosh, thank you again for saying yes to this podcast and for saying yes to uh, telling us your story. Shantelle I really appreciate it.

Speaker 11:

Yeah, thank you for the invitation. And um, yeah, that is, it is just, um, my, that I could tell my story.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. It's been wonderful talking to you.

Speaker 11:

[inaudible]

Speaker 1:

[inaudible]

Speaker 2:

thanks for listening to projects. I am podcast subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or whatever podcast streaming service you use. And while you are there, give us a five star rating projects. I am podcast is sponsored by latter day seeker ministries of community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are of those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of latter day secret ministries or community of Christ. Music has been graciously provided by Dave Heinz.

Speaker 1:

[inaudible]

Speaker 6:

[inaudible].