284 | Coffee in The Swarm | Humberto Tinsman

Coffee in The Swarm is our new series with students from Graceland University. Today we're talking to Humberto Tinsman, former campus minister, house president and future seminary student. Humberto shares about racial tension on campus and in the world, and how Covid-19 has impacted Graceland.

Thanks for listening to Project Zion Podcast!
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram!

Intro and Outro music used with permission:

“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org

All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.

NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.

Josh Mangelson : 0:17

Welcome to the Project Zion podcast. This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world.

Mike Hoffman : 0:33

Welcome, this is Mike Hoffman with Project Zion Podcast and in our series Coffee in The Swarm. I'm spending some time talking with either recent raceland embracing university graduates or current Graceland students. And so we're trying to get the perspective on what's going on in the world around us and I appreciate it. today. I am speaking with Humberto Tinsman. Who will serve as the graduate assistant for campus ministries from the fall of 2020 through the spring of 2022, while he's going to the Community of Christ seminary, so I really appreciate Humberto I'm glad you're here with us today and thanks for joining us.

Humberto Tinsman : 1:17

Yeah glad to be here.

Mike Hoffman : 1:19

You want to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself I mean, where you come from and how you got here?

Humberto Tinsman : 1:26

Yeah of course so good morning everybody. So where I come from and where my background is is I hail originally from Springfield, Missouri, the chapel for pews congregation, like Mike said I'm a recent graduate of Graceland University where I earned my bachelor's degree in history and secondary education. So teacher by trade. And you know, I came to Graceland as a young student in 2016. I've worked with my coffin now going on for years. So very, very exciting stuff. I was on Orion house. So for any Orion listeners out there, you know, I'm happy to have it to be with you. And then during that time I served as house president along as a student pastor for grace on campus, Sunday morning worship coordinator and then chaplain for my house. So definitely very involved with campus ministries, which is definitely been a blessing in my life and has definitely grown into some really cool and exciting ways. So yeah, just really happy to be here.

Mike Hoffman : 2:29

Thank you. Did you say your house president of Orion or just Yes,

Humberto Tinsman : 2:35

yes, I was the house president for

Mike Hoffman : 2:36

Yeah, so that was that was this last year, your senior year? So yep. All right. Very good. So um, you know, there's a lot going on in our world right now. I mean, in terms of, I say world, I guess it is extending to the world. Both the COVID-19 pandemic is going on right now, as well as a lot of civil unrest, protesting especially the killing of George Floyd and, and the whole discussion about racial tensions and racial justice and those kinds of things are going on. So let's start with like, COVID-19. Because that sort of sort of came first, at least in the last several months. Can you tell? Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with COVID-19? In terms of how it's impacted your life?

Humberto Tinsman : 3:25

Of course, yes. The beginnings of COVID-19 especially on Lamoni I grace on campus and, you know, through the world, it really it really was a topic for discussion in the class I was teaching at the time, turns locator High School for student teaching, you know, for current events, we were following it ever since the breakout. In the moment, it kind of became, you know, more national news. It was viewed at that time, definitely as a joke, you know, something that you know, to laugh at to make jokes about and we even did that as a house and as house presidents, you know, it was something that definitely wouldn't affect our lives. That was a viewpoint at the time. But then it quickly became apparent and I think not only to Graceland, but also the rest of the world and how serious this virus was, you know, as a senior during this time period, you know, like you said, I was ramping up for graduation, you know, getting my final documentations ready for teaching to be certified and then also as a house president, you know, planning end of year events and it quickly went from and it felt like such a blur and I'm sure for everyone on campus, it felt like that too. It went from Okay, this is something we're kind of viewing you know, make sure you tell us where you're going for spring break to. Okay, a spring break is now getting extended to okay if you're back on campus, you need to stay on campus, no one is allowed, who is off campus to come on campus to then the year is over. Get out as fast as you can, you know, and it was it definitely felt like just a wave all of a sudden So, yeah, I definitely affected the housing system. Just because you know, like many houses at Graceland, we were an International House, we had people who were on my house counsel from Germany, people who are on my house from Australia, from different Latin American countries in the Caribbean. And then all of a sudden, it was get them out as quickly as I can, you know, packing them up because their countries are getting closed down. And it's either leave right now pack up, you know, kind of put school on the back burner, unfortunately, or have run the risk of getting stuck in the United States for an extended period of time. So definitely a scary situation in that regard.

Mike Hoffman : 5:44

Did that all happpen, so I was with a group of students, you know, traveling on spring break. Yeah. And so we we felt like we needed to rush back we ended our trip a little early. But so So you mentioned that spring break was having And this was an extension. So were you gone during spring break? Or were you on campus during spring break?

Humberto Tinsman : 6:06

Yeah, so I was actually on campus. So the way the student teaching program works, I was doing teaching the time, the way student teaching program works is you follow your placement school schedule. So for that week, where all the students were gone, I was on campus actively teaching. And that's where things really started making teaching scary, because I'm teaching you know, full time that was in that transition period when I was the main teacher. And then in the background, I'm getting these emails from Graceland, saying the spring break is now extension extending, and all these different factors. So for me as an educational route, you know, I was glad that I did all of my checkmarks as a student teacher first, because then it quickly became all the student teacher for pulled out of their public schools. Because of that fear of infection of students in the lower eyelids. In upper Missouri, so I definitely give big credit to Michelle dicots. And all of the professors at the grace Education Department for acting so quickly, and putting a plan together. That was definitely unprecedented for everybody. And accordingly, of course, the board the Board of Education for being so flexible with us understanding that, like, there's nothing we could have done to make a difference, obviously, so big props to them. Yeah.

Mike Hoffman : 7:28

So, so how did so obviously you're getting ready to graduate and so yeah, you know, and get credential to become a teacher. So did that all happen anyway? I mean, you know, well, I know graduation tips. I guess I know that part. But you know, how did it go on after that for you? Did you get credential did you get? Did you have to do anything differently in order to graduate or did it just work out?

Unknown Speaker : 7:54

Yeah. So I was I was very fortunate because you know, knowing myself And knowing how things work as a house president, I really wanted those end months for me just to be able to focus on my guys, you know, focus on the house. So I had already completed almost all of my student teaching checkbox cuz you have to do so many weeks of yourself teaching you do so many different things you can present to the professor. So I had actually already done that. The only thing I did not do was take the final standardized test to be a certified teacher, because I was scheduled to take it and then of course, all the testing centers got closed down. They did give us online tests. So you know, I was able to pass that so I was able to just get through that teaching certification and everything like that. So yeah, definitely very, very happy. It thankfully didn't affect me too much. There's still some things I need to do when I get back onto campus, but nothing that is extreme in any way, shape or form. So I was very fortunate.

Mike Hoffman : 8:56

And I know like commencement for the class of 2020 is scheduled for homecoming. So yeah, I know with you working with campus ministries you'll be here I assume you're probably going to participate them. Yes. Yeah. Commencement assuming everything works out and how, you know, certainly hopeful that all those plans will stay in place for the fall. So okay. Well, very good. Well, the other thing, the other thing besides COVID-19, of course, affecting, I would say, the United States, but it's really, really evident now around the world, some of the protests and things that have been happening. What about the racial unrest? You know, really starting with George Floyd's death in New York, but then, you know, really ramping up all over the place, including I mean, I can't say that it was that much of a protest, but we did have sort of a rally. Some of the staff and faculty members here at Graceland and I know in other communities in Iowa, it's even affected that how how has that that's civil civil unrest and I don't mean that in a negative sense, but just the whole call for racial justice, is that impacted you or what's your experience with it?

Humberto Tinsman : 10:09

Yeah, so I'm a person of color in the United States. And it's been amazing, frightening and heartening and disheartening all at the same time. watching everything go on. You know, the thing that is so amazing about what is going on in the world today is how long people have been able to keep up the fight and keep up the movement. Because you many times and it's very unfortunate, something that I've definitely experienced is that, you know, they'll be a little bit of social unrest, there'll be lots of promises and you know, different social media posts for people to feel good. And then everyone will completely forget about it a week later. But you definitely see a change in the way people are talking about the way people are talking about lasting change. Something that's been really cool for me to see is I'm a huge sports fan. For our listeners to understand, you know, I, I have definitely been missing sports like everyone else. You know, it feels weird not being able to watch baseball and go to baseball games in person. Or to watch NASCAR fully. You know, being from southern Missouri NASCAR is definitely something that's very prevalent in our society. But what's been really cool is to watch it and driver, Nate by the name of Bubba Wallace, he was the only African American professional driver at that level, and watching him champion, the Black Lives Matter movement for challenging NASCAR, which has done this has officially banned the use of the Confederate flag at all of their events, and that's been really cool to see. And then, you know, for our listeners to understand, sort of the pushback some fans might have had, they found actually a noose that was hanging and Bubble Wallace's Driver pits. And what happened the very next day and race day was, you know, all of the drivers walked with his car in solidarity with him. And he was moved to tears. But I think it just kind of speaks to this level of that people are no longer going to be silent about this issue. And I think people are starting to understand that silence, in a lot of ways speaks waves to the way things are, you know, Mike, I've shared with you in the past, and with other people, you know, growing up Iceman experienced a lot of racial tension and a lot of racism in public school. And though the thing that always spoke to me wasn't no one said anything about it, you know, that no one ever stood up for me and till you know, someone did and, and that's why, you know, I champion teachers who do so much already, but you also have to understand that You are the forefront of this movement in some ways, as well, you know, you are the people who some students will see more times and even their parents. And so during these confusing times, I think it's very important for teachers and those who affect young children to be even more vocal. So that that lesson doesn't just be a flash in the pan, that is something that's lasting in this world, you know, there are definitely things that are disheartening, you know, some people that still just don't get it, or people who have, you know, decided to take their own privilege and then run with it. But I also think that even people who think they're good, you know, I think it's, I think it's just a time to really reflect of where they are in the world and where their blinders might be. I think a lot of people are doing that finally, and it's really just really, really cool to see. Yeah, I appreciate those comments. I mean, it's, it's like

Mike Hoffman : 13:58

Yeah, I as a, if I can call myself middle aged, I'm not sure that's true anymore. But, you know, as a, as a white male, you know, it's like, it took me a long time to learn about white privilege and to understand it, and especially, I shouldn't say especially, as well as systemic racism. I mean, I, I am, I seem to be very sensitive to that now I'm sure I miss parts of it, just because of the way I grew up and the way I did things. So I really appreciate learning more about hearing your story and knowing more about how that's affected you. So, you know, one of the one of the things I think that challenges me is to, to understand all of these issues including, you know, for instance, in the pandemic situation, the way I like wearing masks is a way to help my neighbor you know, help my friends, protect my older family members or any But I kind of the contact with, but even more importantly, I think with the the racial injustice and white privilege that I witness, I feel both of those things are related to Christ mission, you know, so it's like, so, I don't know, how would you? How would you share with other people how for you how those, either of those are one of those issues relates to the Community of Christ Christ mission as we understand it, you know, either in explained it in Luke 4:18 and 19 or maybe, you know, some way in the church's Mission Initiatives does that, you know, how would you, how would you explain that to people or how would you relate those two?

Humberto Tinsman : 15:44

Yeah, of course. So, um, I'll start with COVID-19. I think COVID-19 really speaks to the, the principle that the Community Christ is really championed, which is inviting people to Christ, which might seem strange, you know, during a pandemic, why would That'd be the aha, the Mission Initiative that I think speaks of privately. But I really think this is a chance for each of us to take some time, you know, figure out what are those things that are the most important because unfortunately, you know, again, I'm very young in my life journey, but I have realized this that you never truly understand how important something is until it goes away. You know, and I think sometimes we take congregations and our religious practices for granted. And this is a chance for us to really understand how important they are. You know, I've been missing my home congregation so much, you know, I miss seeing those people that helped raise me in every way, shape and form I miss going to the campgrounds and being with people. And I think this is also a chance for me to invite people who might be hungry in that regard. You know, we always talk about feeding the body and the soul. And I really think this is a chance for people to not only realize health Fortunate they are that they have something to turn to, but also something that shows were the places that we need more of, you know, do I need to start attending church more, because I realize I need a community that supports me and I have been doubting and I've been trying to supplement it in other ways. But I really think this is a chance for people to truly gather in a brand new way. And then hopefully, you know, there is a time sooner rather than later that we can truly join person again, and really experience you know, Christ's mission and a brand new way. So really awesome to see that, to talk to racial and justice kind of switching gears. You know, something that has always been so meaningful to me as a person of color as a person comes from biracial marriage that stretches two countries is unity in diversity. You know, I speak about it a lot and I can't speak about it enough, especially during this times because at the heart of that phrase, In that statement unit University, there is unity, which is us recognizing that there is a problem in our world that there is systematic racism. And it's gotten to a point that we don't even realize that it's happening. But people who might have been affected by it positively, have also called it out. But there's also that we have diversity, that it's not just about African American lives. It's not just about white lives, not Asian American, or Hispanic, but it's that there are issues that we all need to recognize. And you know, by champion, the phrase Black Lives Matter, that doesn't mean that no other lives matter less. It's just pointing to the issue, that you have a structured racism that is against a group of people, you know, and I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with, you know, realizing first, and it's hard, you know, and I don't want want to make any listener who's struggling with this feel that this is an easier no brainer situation. You know, it's hard to admit that like something's wrong in your day to day life, because it's your day to day life, why would you want anything to be wrong and no one wakes up. And I truly believe this, no one wakes up and thinks like, I am a terrible human being and I'm going to be as racist as possible. I think people just wake up and they're used to their everyday lives. You know, if you don't mind me, I'd like to tell a story that fits with this perfectly. And you know, like I said, I'm from southern Missouri, and the Confederate flag is something that I grew up with just seeing every single day and it for me, it wasn't a, an immediate sign of racism. It was just something that was there. You know, and it wasn't until I moved to Iowa, to go to Graceland and separated myself from that, that I realized how weird that was that I saw that you know, so symbol of racism and oppression almost every single day. And you know, I was blessed to to room with one of my best friends for two years who also came from my area. And we, you know, at one point we reflected of that of how weird it was that people who wanted to support their state want to support small government's was flying a flag that at its root, killed United States soldiers, you know, and I think that's something that we don't talk about enough, or we don't talk about it that way of that, the confederacy wanted to be a different country, wanted to create civil unrest in the United States, and did kill United States soldiers. So to me, you can't support the troops and also fly the Confederate flag. I'm sorry, you can't have it both ways. And again, I don't want to be provocative to people, but it's something that you need to think about, you know, where did Where do you think? I don't want to say Alliance to live but where do you think Think your heart truly lies in what are the things you're most passionate about. And I think what's important to also understand is a symbol that might mean something for you, doesn't mean the same for the rest of the world. So what is it more important to me, you know, I don't want people to just follow something that's popular, but just truly think about what are the things that you say? What are the things that you show? speak about who you are as a person?

Mike Hoffman : 21:31

Well, and and even beyond that a little bit, who we are as a faith community in some cases, you know, I, it's, yeah, it can be a really a real challenge to say to a group of people that of course, right now we are separated distantly from people, but you know, we still gather together through zoom through some other social media and so the question becomes what, you know, for me, at least, and it echoes what you're saying. How do we integrate decide what matters most how do we say, those symbols or those representations that we use? You know, including, you know, even even pictures of Jesus as simple as that sounds, you know, I mean, Jesus was not a blond haired white guy. I mean, you know, we have to remember, sort of remember that, you know, who Jesus was in reality and remember that sometimes those images we have, you know, are not really reflective of reality, but, but are representations that have sort of been part of who we grew up with. I mean, of course, and and you know, that, even though I joined the church when I was 18, I remember having those circumstances where I could remember seeing pictures of Jesus, and I didn't question that I didn't question sort of a white looking Jesus, you know, but the older I get, the more I realize, and the more I hope I've grown so that sort of echoes, I think what you were, what you were talking about there, so yeah, Well, that's great. So, um, you know, next year? Well, and if you, actually a few weeks now, yeah. You know, you're going to be the graduate assistant for campus ministries on campus. And you know, right now Graceland is moving forward with coming back with, you know, guidelines about social distancing and other things that we, it's been announced we have that information. And it's, of course, I don't think we know exactly. We haven't figured out all the details, but yet, but how so when you get back on campus, how do you see, I'll say the church or campus ministries, or you maybe individually responding to, especially let's talk about racial justice in this case. Do you do you think that things will be different at Graceland? You know, than they were before, you know, when you were an undergrad students?

Humberto Tinsman : 23:57

Yeah. So I'm gonna first start with talking just a pandemic, and then I'll switch over to racial injustice. Now. First off, it's going to be hard. Graceland was going to be hard in general, when we come back and I don't say that because, you know, all classes are going to be online like that, that we're all going to overcome. And that's going to be okay. It's just going to be hard socially. You know, for people who don't understand and I want to say like, don't understand like, you don't get it, but like, you know, try to give you a viewpoint of what Graceland is like, as a Graceland student, is when you see your friends for the first time, after you know, an entire summer has gone by. you hug them, you give them the biggest hug in the entire world because it's not only like, yeah, cool, I get to see my classmates you're seeing your best friends again. You know, I can say, you know, now that I'm engaged and getting ready to get married, it was hard for me to pick out my groomsmen because if I had it my way, everyone in Orion would be my groomsmen easy light. But of course you know Emily said I couldn't have that my fiance um, but it's been Because the type of community we have at Graceland and it's and I already know people are going to struggle, professors are going to struggle because there's this sense of undying community we all have, you know, it's gonna be hard not to have people over for dinner, it's gonna be hard having, you know, not being able to sit together cheering on for sports games, it's just gonna be difficult. But I know, my four years of Graceland, they've taught me anything, we will adapt, we will change and we will be able to overcome this pandemic. Now talking about racial justice and how it affects Graceland campus. The one thing I'll say about Graceland is that we have an amazing student organization, organizations, I should say, that represent different minority groups and different areas of campus, you know, and I really think what we're going to see is even more action from those groups you know, black, the Black Student Union and Latin X club are some of the largest groups on campus along with the Polynesian club. And I really think they will champion a new and exciting changes, you know, something that some listeners might not know, is that Graceland especially the Graceland alumn. Graceland recently added a new branch of student government called Idea or IDEA and what idea is and this was really cool as a house president, especially a house president of color, it is a grouping of people on campus who their main dedication is keeping Graceland in check you know, and I don't want people to think all they're just more PC police I love arts university know, what they actively try to do is find blinders that the university is not aware of find things that do not fit or things that have become out of date, our University because I think it's important to point out, you know, our university's history predates World War One, you know, it predates all it is a very long and rich history. And Graceland has changed so many ways. You know, we were me and Mike, you know, we were looking through the Graceland yearbook. And we were seeing, you know, some images that astonished us of like, this would never happen at Graceland today, like if you tried to pull this, you know, we would be upset as a student, as a student unit. And, you know, I think something that is important to point out, Mike, and I hope I'm not sharing something that I shouldn't be. But as a student pastor, you know, we had issues of race on campus.

Mike Hoffman : 27:39

Ah, no, I think that's yeah, I think that's very fair to say, yeah, we've had, we've had incidences where people and you know, obviously, I'm not sure I even know who would mention a name, but the idea is that we've had racial tension on campus where someone has said something inappropriate or done something inappropriate. You know, and certainly there's there are repercussions for those. And those those people who have done those things do get some sort of redirection in their life. I mean, you know, I, I wouldn't call it punishment, per se. Yeah. But ya know, that kind of thing. And so, yeah, I'm glad you really brought up IDEA because to think that Graceland almost has been ahead of the game here. You know, I say that but not in reality, because we know, especially in terms of the Black Lives Matter and, and racism, we know, it's on for 400 years. So maybe I shouldn't have said that. We are not ahead of the game. But finally, we've identified a group, you know, a part of the student government that's really going to focus on this and say, you know, you mentioned, certainly one way of that IDEA is going to look at the institution. And look at racism, those kinds of things. But I think it's also as, as you know, it's sort of a, a way to teach all of us about where those issues lie and how we can face them together, you know, because I think, I think, you know, you and I've had these conversations before Humberto, but that, you know, sometimes those things happen. And we're not truly aware of our own blind spots, you know, say that for me, especially, and, you know, and, and I'll own that and to say, I'm glad I've reached that point, or I'm glad to get an awareness about my own issues and those kinds of things, whether that comes from another faculty or a faculty member or a staff member, or a student organization, such as idea, so I really appreciate you bringing them up.

Humberto Tinsman : 29:53

Yeah, one thing I want to add before we transition to something else is the thing that I've always been so proud that Graceland has done. It's never shied away from the issue of race. It's never tried to cover it up. It's never tried to silence a different groups and you're getting too radical. Graceland has always put that issue at the forefront of the student body campus because I think Graceland and I'm talking about race as an entity, but I'm also talking Graceland as professors. They know for a fact that if they try to cover it up, they'll do more damage than do the university good. So it's better I think, I think this is the mindset of Graceland, which is something that's been so just empowering as a person of color. I think Graceland it was a it was a person who would say I want to know what is wrong, and I want to fix it. I want to fix it and I want to make it better. I know not every student might agree with that. But that's what I've seen of that. We have professors, we have upper administration go all the way up to the president of the university. They go all the way down to us lowly campus minister that believe in racial justice? You know, and it's it's been an overwhelming wave of support that I have felt from my now alma mater. So, yeah, really awesome.

Mike Hoffman : 31:13

Thank you for sharing them, of course. So, you know, because we're campus ministry, and Campus Ministries is a partnership between Graceland and the Community of Christ, let's talk about the church for a minute. You know, I know, you know, you're an elder serving in the church. And what I would like to know is where you see maybe it's these issues, but maybe it's just anything in general. You know, where is the church? Where do you see the church going in the future? In terms of maybe, maybe lessons learned from the pandemic or racial justice, but maybe it could be anywhere. I mean, you know, we've, we've You and I have been friends for the last four and a half years, I guess. So it's like Where do you see the church going in the future?

Humberto Tinsman : 32:04

Yeah. So the where I see the church going in the future is definitely something that excites me something that gets me very amped and hyped up. Because I think lots of congregations are starting to realize there is a need for a shift of how we do traditional church. And Mike, we've talked about this a lot in our Inspire practicum, which is a practicum, where Community of Christ students learn and hone in their ministerial skills. But the shift that we're seeing is that many times people view their congregation as above the community that the community needs to serve the congregation. But now I think we're starting to see a reverse in that role. And you know, Mike, I talked about this a little high and Mike is the Mike's not his head because he gets to hear this a lot from me, but I think it's something that's so important that's happening is that the churches are realizing that they need to serve their community, that they can no longer Just justify their existence. Like we're a church, obviously, we matter. And I think what this time gives them is an opportunity to take an active lead in race or race relations. And you know, if you're a pastor, or mission center president who is out there and is listening and wondering what they can do, my advice is just listen to the people. They will tell you what they need. And what often they need is just more voices of support, more avenues of support, if you're if you're a Community of Christ, that's out there who knows there's protesters and you know, there's people who are around and if you truly in your heart, support that mission, bring them some water, that simple act of kindness of reaching out, that speaks volumes to people, you know, and I don't want to put anyone in danger. I don't want to put input politics in this game, or in this thing that we call church, but I think it's also important to recognize that This comes from people hurting. This comes from people whine, a desire to be heard. And I think the church is in a perfect position to actively do something about that. You know, and I also would challenge people don't be scared to have those conversations of race, because I, I don't want to speak for every person of color in this country around the world. But something that means the most to me, is when people ask, you know, hey, how can I be better? And I when people love having that conversation, not because people want to tear you down, but people want to share with you that like, I've been hurt in this way. And what you're doing is actively trying to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Mike Hoffman : 34:43

Thank you. Thanks. So, um, what other issues are stirring your spirit right now? Are there? Are there other things? I mean, we talked certainly about, you know, the pandemic and racial justice and those are extremely important topics, right? Now, but are there other things that are going on that? You know, sort of stir your steer your spirit?

Humberto Tinsman : 35:09

Yeah, of course. Um, I think one thing that I have been the most reflective on definitely this summer and as and as I've gone a little bit older in the world is the way we just treat people in general. You know, we've talked a lot about racial injustice in our time together, but also socioeconomic status, I really think plays a giant role and for those of you who do not know socioeconomic statuses, do not feel that, you know, you're missing the ball on something, you know, it's something that I is a term that I wasn't privy to, until, you know, I came to grace on learn more about it, but simply put, it is the divides we have based on the economic level, you know, and those things that make us rich that we don't even realize that we have, you know, the example I would love to put is, I have a very strong socioeconomic status at Graceland. What does that mean? That means that I know that if I was like tomorrow, if if Graceland said you need to be at Graceland tomorrow, I know I could probably stay at someone's house. You know, obviously, I think it'd be a lot harder now with COVID-19. But that's something that could happen. You know, I could stay on someone's couch. You know, a great story that we have from Graceland is that when we came back from Guatemala trip, we stayed at a Graceland alum and Community of Christ family's house for a couple hours to sleep before we went back to Graceland. Um, so I think it just I think it's something that people don't realize, and it's something that we can do better at, you know, and we always talk about this wheel of poverty and abolish poverty is something that the church strives to do. But I think it starts at that level of recognizing that you might be a little bit more wealthy in different ways and good, where does good stewardship stop? Or where does it start? For some people, you know, good stewardship is not just about your tithing dollars, but it's also about your time and your talent. And I think we all have that issue. You know, I, I struggle with it a lot. You know, it breaks my heart, seeing people on the side of the street, begging, you know, in my heart of hearts, I know that we are all called by Jesus Christ to go and reach out, but and in that exact same moment that I want to reach out and just sit and talk with that person. I have the cultural side that says, well, that person could be on drugs, that person could just be wanting alcohol, like you have all these things, but you haven't even talked to the person yet. And you're immediately making these assumptions and your prejudices just come out like that. So I would challenge all listeners just just take some time to realize that, you know, changes don't only have to be racial Also just how you see your fellow human being, and how you see where they come from.

Mike Hoffman : 38:07

Yeah, that's I think that's really important because as you were sharing that I was thinking about my own experiences, like, like growing up as a kid is going back to sports a little bit. I remember going to the Kansas City Royals ballgames before this, this really dates me now, but before the stadium, the area streaming Sports Complex was built, there was a municipal Stadium in a part of Kansas City, that I remember going through there and whether it was because of race or whether it was because of economics, I don't really know but I just remember, you know, my own parents saying, oh, lock your doors, and it's like, you know, and it's like, I wouldn't even think twice about that today. I you know, but, but it was one of the things that I remember from my childhood and You know, at the time, I really thought it had to do with more of the economics of the area than race. I, you know, that was also during a time though of the Kansas City, racial race riots and those kinds of things. And so there might have been there, you know, there might have been some tension going on, but as a kid, I just didn't, you know, didn't pick up on that. So, thank you for sharing, you know, that's Yeah, of course. Is that so? Is there anything else you'd like to say about? I don't know. Events in your life, Christ's mission, you know, whatever. Yeah, that we could finish our conversation about?

Humberto Tinsman : 39:37

Of course, um, so you know, things I've been mulling over as we've discussed what we're going to do this conversation. Um, the biggest thing that I can take away from Christ's mission today is that it's still such an active fight. And I use the term fight very deliberately, because it's not something that we should get, you know, hyped up about, it's not something that we should Go into an aggressive stance, but understanding that these are issues that are going to be around for a very long time, and is our goal and our hope and our dream to never see these issues reared again. But I think it's also important for us to always realize that we're always going to be talking about race, and especially in this country, and we're going to continue to talk about it until we get to a point that I won't use the term satisfied, but to the time we have justice in our world. I think that we are on the precipice of some really, really cool and amazing stuff that's going to happen in our world and especially as someone who's a seminary student, I'm so excited to see elements of the gospel being lived in our society today. I think that the Holy Spirit and the Lord is very, very proud of us of what we're doing so far, but knows We can do so much more. And that's why I love, you know, the Community of Christ because we're constantly listening. And we're constantly learning and we're constantly changing. And I think that's something that just speaks to who we are as a people. You know, if you're a listener who has not experienced yet what the Community if Christ has to offer, you know, this is a great chance to start checking things out, this is a great chance for you to start understanding that we are a people who are constantly changing, and you know, sometimes y'all use metaphor a lot. And again, Mike's laughing because again, he's heard this metaphor a lot, but I view God and the Holy Spirit as a parent of both the father and the mother of that, you know, sometimes we need a very gentle hand that guides us and sometimes we need to smack in the back of the head. Um, both instances, that would be my mother who would smack me in the back of the head, but it's something that we need to be open to something we need to be aware of that our world is changing and that we need to make sure it changes for the better. You know, with some last words my heart goes out to all of our first responders. I don't think we can thank them enough during this time. You know, they are the ones who are on the field doing amazing things and my heart goes out to them. And just hope they know especially they're listening to they have the undying support of not only Graceland, but also the larger Community of Christ.

Mike Hoffman : 42:29

Well Humberto, it's been a pleasure talking to you again. I so appreciate knowing you and sharing with you and so I just want to thank you for spending time with me today and with our listeners as well. I think you bring a fresh perspective to things and that's what this whole this whole series about copying the swarm for those of you that don't know, but swarm is the sort of the retail outlet if you will here on Grayson's campus where you can get a this fall especially When it reopens in the brand new Newcomb Student Union, it's going to offer a lot of things including a taco bar and as well as what it traditionally had. So a lot of new things. So, Humberto again, thank you. Thanks for joining me and we will see you on campus in a few weeks.

Humberto Tinsman : 43:19

Of course. Thank you so much, Mike.

Mike Hoffman : 43:20

Thank you,

Humberto Tinsman : 43:21

Of course. Bye.

Josh Mangelson : 43:31

Thanks for listening to Project Podcast, subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or whatever podcast streaming service you use. And while you're there, give us a five star rating. Project Zion Podcast is sponsored by Latter-day Seeker Ministries of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Latter-day Seeker Ministries or Community of Christ. Music has been graciously provided by Dave Heinze.

Project Zion Podcast

284 | Coffee in The Swarm | Humberto Tinsman

Listen to this podcast on