358 | Sealed | Katie Langston

Author Katie Langston shares about her new book, Sealed. It’s a journey of transformation, a meditation on grace and belonging, and the candid story of an anxious Mormon girl becoming a Lutheran minister.

Preorder Katie's Sealed
Katie's Website

PZP Episode 71: Prophets of the Bible http://www.projectzionpodcast.org/episode-71-prophets-of-the-bible/
On Wells and Worrying (a sermon by Katie Langston) http://www.projectzionpodcast.org/extra-shot-episode-25-on-wells-and-worrying/

Host: Robin Linkhart
Guest: Katie Langston

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Intro and Outro music used with permission:

“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org

All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.

NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.

358 | Sealed | Katie Langston
Project Zion Podcast

Josh Mangelson 00:17

Welcome to the Project Zion Podcast. This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world.

Robin Linkhart 00:34

Hello, and welcome to Project Zion Podcast. This is your host Robin Linkhart. And today we welcome a very good friend Katie Langston with us. Katie is a doubter by nature and a believer by grace. She is the Director of Digital Strategy for Luther seminaries innovation team, where she oversees digital projects aimed at cultivating vibrant Christian spirituality in a postmodern, post Christian cultural context. She writes and speaks to Christian audiences about Mormonism, and to Mormon audiences about Christianity. And she is a popular blogger, podcast guest and preacher, a pastoral intern preparing for ordination in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Katie lives in the greater Twin Cities area with her husband, two daughters, and dog Buffy, who of course is named after the Vampire Slayer Sealed his her first book. And that is exactly why we are here with Katie Langston today to talk about her new book. Welcome, Katie. It's so good to have you with us.

Katie Langston 01:54

Thanks, Robin. It's so good to be here with you. Such a fun opportunity.

Robin Linkhart 02:00

Katie, let's take a minute now to give the listeners a chance to get to know you better. Tell us a little bit more about you.

Katie Langston 02:10

Sure, well, I grew up in Utah. In a pretty devout conservative, almost, I say almost quasi fundamentalist Mormon family, that does not mean that my parents practiced polygamy, or anything like that I use fundamentalist in this sort of broader sense of the word not the Mormon specific sense of the word just that, you know, a pretty hyper literalistic set of beliefs and orthodoxy in terms of, you know, in a Mormon context. So, sort of the, you know, the the 20,000 foot view is, I grew up in that sort of environment, which had, you know, both gifts and struggles and pain, you know, both I think all of our upbringings are like that, and ended up later in life, you know, becoming a, a Lutheran pastor, or at least a Lutheran pastor in training and nearing the end of my training, which is not exactly the most common trajectory for Mormon girls growing up in conservative homes in Utah. So, yeah, I moved to—we moved to—my family, and I have husband, a couple of daughters and a dog, like you mentioned, when you read the bio, you know, we moved to the Twin Cities in 2014, so that I could attend seminary, and, you know, I'm now working toward becoming a becoming a pastor. That's the high level stuff.

Robin Linkhart 03:58

Thanks. Lots of interesting dynamics there that I know we'll delve into deeper as this conversation unfolds. As I mentioned, in the opener, you just published the book Sealed: An Unexpected Journey into the Heart of Grace, which is scheduled to release April 6 2021, which I think is a very interesting date, since that marks the founding of the Latter Day Saint tradition and in Community of Christ marks the date of the Reorganization, which was April 6, 1860. And of course, the original founding of the church was in 1830. So, Katie, tell us a little bit about what brought you to writing this book?

Katie Langston 04:48

Yeah. Well, first of all, with the date, you know, that was, that was only a semi intentional troll of the Mormons. What ended up happening was we knew we wanted to release it in April. And usually books get released on a Tuesday and April 6, that just happened to be a Tuesday. So I said, that's the Tuesday in April, we're gonna pick because it's too perfect. And I like to tell people that the book is coming out on Mormon Jesus's birthday, which is always like an eye, you know, like an eyebrow raiser, which is kind of funny. Because I don't know if it's Community of Christ, Jesus's birthday, I would think it's not but it is Mormon Jesus's birthday because somewhere in the Doctrine and Covenants, it says something like, you know, so many years after bla bla bla, that Jesus was born on April 6, and Mormons interpreted that to mean that that was like literally Jesus's birthday.

Robin Linkhart 05:49

Yeah, I had forgotten. I had forgotten that detail. But no, that did not come down through the Reorganization tradition.

Katie Langston 05:56

That wasn't one of the strands that you pulled forward with you?

Robin Linkhart 06:00

No, no that's not.

Katie Langston 06:02

That's hilarious. But anyway, but I digress. Um, yeah, so the book has actually been like a decade in the making. I started writing this book, in 2010. And this was during a period of kind of intense spiritual growth for me. I had recently had an experience of grace I talked about in the book and that I've shared, I think, probably on this podcast and and elsewhere publicly about hearing a word of grace kind of for the first time, and how that impacted me at a time when I was, you know, I was very anxious. I was a very anxious Mormon. I had in fact, religious scrupulosity, which is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder, I write about that as well. And went to a lecture by a CS Lewis scholar in Logan, Utah, which is my hometown. And he talked about grace. And for some reason, in some way, that penetrated my heart, and really revolutionized and transformed the way I thought of myself and the way I thought of God. And so in 2010, so that was, that was a couple years prior to that in 2010, I decided I wanted to start writing about my experience and trying to, I guess, synthesize even for myself, what had happened there. Now, at that time, I was still a practicing Mormon. I was a, you know, I was a doubting Mormon.What ended up happening was experiencing grace and contrasting that with the sort of works based worthiness system that I had grown up in, was a catalyst for, you know, a crisis of faith. So while I was still a practicing Mormon, I was a doubting one and a little bit of a disgruntled one. And I thought maybe writing my story would help me sort through some of these things. So I wrote about the first third of the book kind of about my childhood, in particular, in, you know, between 2010/2011 and shared some of that with some friends at the time. And then when I tried to write further, I got stuck. And I, I realized now it's because I hadn't lived through the end of the story yet. You know, I didn't, I was still in the middle of like, figuring out what the ending of the story might be, at least this particular story, but there's, you know, many other stories to come, I'm sure. So I put it away for, like, 10 years almost. And then later, when I was in seminary, and had been continuing to work through, you know, many things theologically and emotionally and spiritually, I reached a point when I felt so compelled to open it, that book to take that book, back out of my filing cabinet and like go find it like from three computers ago, the manuscript and start working on it again. And so this time, the work went much faster. And to a certain extent, I kind of felt like I couldn't do anything but write the book. It was that urgent, it was that pressing, which is as you know, as an artist, a writer and as a Christian person, you know, I It's like, "Okay, like God is up to something in this." And so I listened to that. And I and I, and I wrote, I wrote the rest of this kind of second. Two thirds, I guess that's not the second, the next two thirds of the book. I'm just feeling super compelled to do so after I had resolved some things, but then still needed to go back and integrate and reflect.

Robin Linkhart 10:28

That's so fascinating. Our paths crossed, I believe in about 2013. And I'm not sure did you attend the first feminist Mormon women's retreat? The Girls Camp in 2013?

Katie Langston 10:43

I didn't attend the I didn't attend that first one, because I hadn't been connected into that community at that point. But I attended the second one.

Robin Linkhart 10:53

Yeah, 'cause we went to one, I remember taking you and a friend, another woman that was going to attend, and it might have been 2014. But our paths crossed somehow. And I'm not sure exactly, when and where. But as I was reading your book, I was trying to cross reference my meeting you and the joy of knowing you and being a witness to part of this journey that you describe in your book. And it was just so illuminating to kind of put some of those pieces together. So that might have been sometime in 2013. Because by 2014, we were seeing each other on and off pretty regularly. Well, and I think even in 13, because you moved in 2014.

Katie Langston 11:49

Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, I don't remember the exact timing. But I think Lindsey Hanson Park introduced us if I remember, and we went to lunch or something. And then I lived just down the road, if you remember from the Salt Lake Community of Christ, congregation, so I started coming to church. And then we started talking all around, you know that, that time you're in the book, even though I don't think I name you, specifically, but meeting the women in Community of Christ in particular was, you know, an important part of my journey.

Robin Linkhart 12:30

Yeah that was wonderful to read that section and remember those times together. So we kind of ran around a bit, you came to some of the house churches, meet ups and different things, for sure. So I, I want to go a little bit deeper into this journey of writing the book, because all throughout the book, there's, for me, anyway, there's a sense of God's presence with you, and God drawing you in. And as you state in the book, even though you're in different stages of faith transition or faith crisis, you clearly state there was never a sense of not believing or not being aware of God's presence in your life or doubting the existence of a divine creation, however your relationship was looking with the church or with family, and just all the different adventures that you had throughout the book. And as I was reading through I'm, and you're very introspective, throughout and, and transparent. So it's, it's quite a joy for a reader and a privileged to have that window into this introspection, as you're living and experiencing by life and faith and the Divine Presence. So one of the questions I came out of after reading the book, was your journey of writing the book and you've shared, you know, you had about a third of it done by 2010, pushed pause, and then more or less felt compelled to birth this story to share with the world. And tell us a little bit about that journey and how, I mean, how did that impact you in the now as you're revisiting these things?

Katie Langston 14:21

I think the process of writing really helped me to integrate different parts of my experience that had felt kind of disparate and disconnected before. So I really felt like the writing process allowed me to reconcile my Mormon self and my Christian self and, and honestly, my understanding of and relationship to my family, including my you know, kind of immediate family, my family of origin But also my ancestors, which is a pretty Mormon theme, actually. But as I went back and was learning more about some ancestors I write about a little bit, you know, in the book, there's sort of a thread that goes through and little vignettes about various ancestors. You know, I found myself longing to know about them, as Christians, because growing up Mormon, your ancestors need to become Mormons, you have to baptize them Mormon, right. But that's part of the identity so that the past becomes Mormon and sort of eradicates in a sense, what was there and then the present and the future of Mormons, because that's what you're marching toward. And to go back and reclaim the Christianity of my ancestors. And in all of its complexity, right, there's Puritans, and there's Salem Witch ancestors that were killed in the Salem witch trials, and there's martyrs. And there's, you know, it's not like it's a rosey, it's not all a rosy picture of the past. But to recognize that my roots, my roots, personally, this isn't the same for everyone who comes out of the Mormon tradition, but my roots aren't Mormon. My roots are, you know, Protestant, and Catholic. And, and to reclaim that history, when I had sort of baptized the Mormon before, was a piece of integration that I didn't know that I needed before I started writing. And, you know, the, the journey itself was a process of just kind of listening to what would come up. Write something, and then what comes up next, and I would write something and what comes up next, and it sort of flowed. That's not to say there wasn't some pretty specific work that went into them, revising and crafting and shaping the narrative in terms of, you know, in time, and when do I put certain scenes and that sort of thing. There was some, certainly a lot of intentionality in that. But I felt the whole time as if I was tapping into something that was bigger and beyond myself. And that really helped. That was really healing, actually,

Robin Linkhart 17:39

Yeah, and I think the end of the book really brings that home in such a powerful way, at least for me, as I was reading that. And I have to say, Katie, you have a gift of language and articulation. You use the word artist a little bit earlier, in our conversation, you are a true artist of the language. You have an ability to paint pictures that we might see visually, but also to paint an image of feelings or those things that aren't tangible, as you go along. And then just this, the rhythm of the way you write and the way you thread these other things like some of your ancestors, or stories that are a backdrop to the narrative that we're following in the immediate focus is just so artistically done, I was aware of some of your gifts of music and theater. And of course, you talk about that to some degree, as well throughout this because it's a big part of your life and developing and expressing those gifts in your life. But they certainly come to play in your writing such a beautiful, beautiful way of communicating through the written word.

Katie Langston 19:08

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Robin Linkhart 19:10

So just for our readers, Katie, can you just kind of give us like a high level, meta narrative arc of your story that is told so eloquently in this book?

Katie Langston 19:25

Yeah, so like the five second version is it's the story of an anxious Mormon girl becoming a Lutheran minister. The deeper you know, the deeper answer to that question is that it's a journey of transformation and a meditation really on grace and belonging. Those are sort of major themes of the book. And wrestling with a sense of unworthiness, which I think a lot of people struggle with—I think Mormon people struggle with it a lot just because of the nature of Mormon culture and teaching. I think everyone, Mormon or not, you know, sort of has this fear that they're unworthy. And, and maybe need to hide or act out or any number of things, you know, in order to sort of suppress that, the shame that they might experience. And the way in which that sense of fear and shame and of being unworthy, can be transformed and healed by the unconditional love of God. And how it was in my life, and how that unfolded. You know, I would be devastated if someone were to read the book and come away with it as like, Mormon, bad, Lutheran good, right? Because that's not actually what it's about. That's not actually what the story is meant to be. It's, I hope, a nuanced and loving reckoning with Mormonism and Mormon culture, as well as the recounting in faithful and honest ways of what God has done in my l=ife, by the grace of God in Jesus.

Robin Linkhart 21:31

Yeah, I think that, that the compassionate posture from which you write, comes through clearly, as well as your willingness to tell the truth—to be authentic. And I think there's such power in being able to see the truth and name the things that are not healthy for us as humanity, as well as to ultimately see that almost never Is there a situation that's all good or all bad. And as you come full circle to that, and working through your own sense of integration and reconciliation of relationship, and things that just didn't fit, you come full circle to that and you're able to, from your place in time that you stand now to look back and claim the gifts of your Mormon heritage and claim the gifts of your family and, and you know, none of us have perfect families, even though we spend a lot of time thinking we do or that we don't and other people, other people do. Which to me was, in essence, a window into grace itself. And, and so healing, like you've said, you have a particular history and context and place in time that you were born and grew up. And even though Mormonism is a particular worldview, and a lived experience, the struggles that we find are not dissimilar to what many many many of us struggle with, like thinking we have to be perfect or good enough those those things that peck at our human spirits and prevent us often from claiming the all of who we are and, and living into that. I was really touched by your story with your grandmother, your grandmother, Ackerman. I don't know if you remember this, but I think it might have been in 2015, you came back to Utah to attend Sunstone Summer Symposium, and you actually were staying with me up in Bountiful. And as we drove up the hill, towards Penny's house, we got to a place you said, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, my grandmother lived near here!" And you said, "Oh, can return here?" And so we took a turn and you remembered you know which way to go. And then we came to the house and I just remembered seeing in you this, this really vibrant and vital connection with her and how important that was to you without—I knew none of that background other than she was your grandmother. So when I was reading your book, I remembered that and I thought, "Oh my gosh, this is this is so important." These kinds of connections and obviously, that relationship with her and finding your way to fully embracing who she was as a person, which you already loved and embraced, but her own faith journey and how that played into yours and your story of reconciliation and finding your place in that.

Katie Langston 24:59

Yeah, like how she had an opposite journey in a lot of ways, right? Like she came from a Methodist background and converted to Mormonism. And I was born Mormon as a result of that and left and I didn't become Methodist, but you know, sort of similar, kind of mainline Protestant trajectory and to reconcile, how is it possible? Is it possible that God was in both journeys? Yeah. You know, and and how that was a really difficult and animating question for me because of how deeply I loved my grandmother.

Robin Linkhart 25:41

Yeah, that was a beautiful dimension of your story. So Katie, as you think about this book, and one of the questions that I have is, is who are you writing this book, to? And what are your hopes for the readers? And I recognize that may not be a question that has one definitive answer, and maybe it's even evolved for you and continues to, but what would your response be to that question?

Katie Langston 26:10

I think on one level, the book is a love letter to the Mormons. And it's actually in particular, in my heart is—are—Mormons who have gone through difficult, like crises of faith, you know, that's such a difficult experience for a lot of people. And in the process, those folks, a lot of times, understandably, and sometimes, you know, rightfully lose any sense of the Divine or end up so wounded by things that have happened to them in the name of God that they don't even want to go near that, which is an impulse I understand. Even as someone who like I said, In the book, I never stopped—I stopped believing God for like two days, and it was a really crappy two days. Like, my whole life, right? Like, I've just always kind of believed in God. But, but, you know, there are folks who have had really negative experiences in the name of God and have been abused, actually, in the name of God. And so on the one, you know, I hope that my writing this book, and it's personal, and as detailed as I've been about my own experience, grappling with some of those things, (I hope) that it might show a way—not the way—but a way through. It might show a way through, and that in that sense, it could be of value to some folks who are coming out of Mormonism in particular are really wrestling with their Mormon experience or identity. So that's, you know, that's one group of readers that's been on my heart. Another group is, you know, just um, there are a lot of folks who don't understand Mormonism very well, who are on the outside of Mormon culture. So these could be, you know, possibly folks who go to church and possibly people who don't, but people who are curious about Mormonism and would like to, would like to know more about it, who'd like to kind of understand the culture and you know, the people a little bit better. And so, my hope is that it could, it could kind of shed some light for those folks as well. And then sort of the third kind of audience is just people who enjoy spiritual memoir. I think that are spiritual, or like to hear spiritual stories. I think that we all grow and we all I like, I love to hear and to read about other people's journeys, especially when they take twists and turns that seem kind of foreign to me, you know, or that I don't, that that hasn't been my experience to be able to read about someone else's experience and to kind of get my imagination expanded about what's possible and how people make meaning, or how they find God. Where do they find that meaning and where do they find God? Like, I think that there's something really inspiring and challenging and, you know, uplifting and worthwhile in hearing and reading those stories. So even if someone has no connection whatsoever to Mormonism or to Christianity, but just, you know, enjoys reading about spiritual stories and spiritual journeys, I hope that, you know that they'll find value as well.

Robin Linkhart 30:04

Yeah, as you're talking, I'm thinking about people who come out of other very fundamentalist conservative expressions of Christianity, many of whom we've encountered on this road of faith and life who have similar woundedness and how there will be intersection with those readers. And hearing you talk about spiritual memoirs, I'm I'm thinking of writers like Sue Monk Kidd who's been around a long time. Barbara Brown Taylor, but you know, more recently, Nadia Boltz Weber, Rachel Held Evans, and others, just really strong women of faith who've had similar journeys, of deconstructing and reconstructing and exploration and just deep, deep questions and how they have come through to the other side and and continue this on going journey of faith. Katie, how has writing your story—you've talked a little bit about how it's impacted your faith journey, or been really an important part of the spiritual formation, faith formation as you've gone along—how has it impacted relationships in your life or other dimensions of your life that you're living as you're writing this?

Katie Langston 31:39

Well, I heard, so I think it might have been Joanna Brooks, I can't remember. So I don't want to misquote her or anyone but I heard someone say once, "No one wants a family member to become a memoirist." And I'm sure that's true.You know, my husband has read the book, and he, he enjoyed it, and you know, liked it, and I wouldn't have you know, if there's something you need me to, that you don't like, in here, I'm not gonna to blow up my marriage over a book. But there was nothing, he he really enjoyed it and appreciated it. My parents haven't read it yet. My mom says she's going to read it before she lets my dad. God bless them. I agree. I agree. That is exactly how it should go. Um, you know, so I'll be I'll be interested to see. Um, you know, because there are some taboos that I kind of violate, in this book by talking about, you know, temple things and worthiness interviews, and, you know, I'm aware that that's in there. And so I'll be curious. And I'm kind of girding my loins as it were against, you know, potential, you know, sort of back backlash if it if it comes and, and, and that will be hard. But we'll just have to kind of, you know, deal with those. If, and as they come. At the same time, you know, writing it helped me find more compassion for family members that we might have had strained relationships, or I might have been frustrated with or whatever. Again, just sort of that process of, of integration, and finding, you know, finding, wholeness and, and understanding more, a deeper understanding of myself deeper understanding of important relationships and people in my life. So I, I hope that it will be all positive. In the end, I not, I think naive enough to expect only positive kind of impacts. relationally but I hope it'll open doors to conversations, even difficult conversations that maybe need to be had, that are never fun, necessarily, but but can be important, you know, catalysts for growth.

Robin Linkhart 32:41

Sounds like a good plan. So were there any surprises along the way as you wrote this book? And also, I recognize I'm one of the lucky people that you allowed to have an early copy of the book and there are others. What kind of responses have you gotten from other folks who have read the book? So any surprises along the way? And then what are some of the responses from those who have been able to read it early?

Katie Langston 34:58

Oh, thanks. Good questions. Yeah, definitely some surprises in terms of you know, I don't want to give any spoilers, but kind of going through and realizing, "Oh, that's what was going on at this point." Like, there's a part where I didn't piece together until I was writing the book that during a period of my time, a period of time in my life, I was grieving the loss of someone. And it wasn't until like, you know, 20 years later, and I'm right, I'm like, "Oh, that's what that was." That was grief. Right. But at the time, I hadn't known that I could name that. And so, you know, just just experiences like that, or there was something about just writing the whole thing out and then going back and being like, Holy smokes, like, yeah, that's what happened. Like, that's crazy, that that's what happened. You know, and, and things that hurt so bad, you know, that hurts so badly at the time, even woundedness. From like, my childhood, or, you know, things that I had regretted or had wished had gone differently, you know, sort of a surprise to be like, "Oh, actually I no longer wish that that had gone differently." Like, I'm okay, that that happened, the way that that happened. It's it's, it's now part of, it's now integrated, right? Not saying that it was good that it happened. Not saying that I would want it to happen to someone else. But I no longer wish I could change it for myself. And that was a surprise. And then. And then, again, I don't want to give spoilers, but the end. And well I just talk a bit about baptism. And my experience of being baptized as an adult. I was not expecting the just cascade of healing that that experience was for me, I thought, yeah, it'll be good. You know, I should do this. But it, it blew me away. The way it changed me. Physically, it felt a physical change in my body. And that was a, you know, that was a huge surprise. I wasn't expecting it. So.

Robin Linkhart 37:32

Yeah. And your response from early readers? Has that been largely positive? I would imagine.

Katie Langston 37:40

Yeah. I mean, I have gotten some really positive feedback from folks. Now. You know, of course, they're all hopefully, you know, the early readers are the ones that are maybe a little bit more bias to liking it anyway. Because the are friendly sources. But I've had, I've had lots of people tell me, they can't put it down, which is really cool. That's really, um, you know, I've had lots of people say, "Well, I started reading this, and I finished it in two days, because it just had to keep reading it". Which as a storyteller. I'm like, "Oh, good," because there are sometimes books that are good. But they're a bit of a slog, you know, it's like, "Alright, I'm gonna get through this book, because it's good for me to read this book, you know, like eating my broccoli." But, you know, I've had lots of feedback that folks have just, they've sort of flown through it, which has been gratifying. And then other people sharing that it named or articulated something in their own experience that helped them reconcile or understand something about themselves a little bit more deeply. That was, that was really helpful. And other folks have said that they like the writing, which as a writer is, is, you know, one of the more gratifying things to hear like, the prose is good. I'm glad the prose is good. So, some of those some of those kinds of comments have been really exciting for me to hear.

Robin Linkhart 39:17

Yeah, my experience was similar to what you've said, I sat down and I read it in one reading. I mean, I kind of did a preview when I first got the document, some things that you had pointed out and I just kind of went through and read the preface, but when it was time to read the book, I sat down and it was just, it was like, having this bounty of your most favorite foods in front of you on a table, you know, like maybe on Christmas Day, and you just dive in and go for it. And that's was my experience with the book was just taking it all in and I read and did not stop until I got to the end. Yeah. And there were some Klennexes involved along the way. So...as well as laugh out loud moments, but it was it was a joy filled and deep experience for me as well. So Katie, is there anything that you would like to share about this book or your experience, writing this book that I haven't asked you about today?

Katie Langston 40:26

I think just like, I would encourage people to get to know and to write or tell their own stories. I think stories express the deeper truths of the human experience in ways that nothing else can, right? There's a reason Jesus told stories. There's a reason that the Bible, with some exceptions, is a book full of stories, right, and poetry and literature and art, that when you're trying to get at something like making meaning of a human life, you can't intellectualize your way through that, like alone, right? To tell the story, to say, this was a beginning and a middle and an end. Or maybe it's an open ended, ending right? That there's something really powerful in that, and then to share your story with other people, as well is, is really, I think, an important thing to being whole. And for those of us who maybe have a perspective that sort of the arc of the universe, that the story arc of the universe is one of mercy, and justice and grace and peace, stories are the best way for us to convey that to others. I think. You know, you're not going to get there through arguments. You're not going to get there through you know, logic necessarily, and those are helpful. But at the end of the day, if we want to invite people into a life of mercy and a life of justice and a life of peace, I think we do that best your story.

Robin Linkhart 42:34

Beautiful. One thing I want to share before we bring this interview to a close and something that probably most of our listeners aren't aware of is that Katie was a big part of Project Zion Podcast happening. In fact, without Katie, I'm not sure we would have Project Zion Podcast. So before she and her family moved to Minnesota, Lindsey Hanson Parks approached me with the idea of had we ever considered in Community of Christ doing a podcast series and convinced me that there might be merit to thinking about that idea. I reached out to Katie, aware of her gifts—and I think you were involved with a company and maybe you were already doing some podcasting, or at least ventures with podcasting—I invited you into conversation with me and to be a sojourner on exploring this idea. And we kind of journeyed with that close to a year we even did a Sunstone presentation and a flyer you know. The name of the podcast came out of our conversations together online, through Facebook and and you were part of our early launch of interviews. You hosted several and all of our our Extra Shot episodes, your voice is on the intro.

Katie Langston 44:10

Oh, yeah!

Robin Linkhart 44:12

So I want to invite our listeners to take a peek at Project Zion Podcast and our files. If you'd like to hear more from Katie. She also shares a few of her sermons. She's an eloquent speaker and a gifted preacher. And as I was reading your book, I remembered that you interviewed your Old Testament professors who I believe became one of your really critically important mentors. You did an interview with her which is on Project Zion Podcast.

Katie Langston 44:45

That's one of my—that's a go to's. The podcast interview with Kathryn Schifferdecker on What is a prophet?" And I send that to folks, a lot actually, like Mormon people wrestling. Because prophets are such a big question. So anyway, that's that's a good one. You should go listen to that one. Plus Kathryn's brilliant.

Robin Linkhart 45:09

She is yes. Alrighty, well, Katie, I want to thank you so much for being with us today sharing about your new book, Sealed: An Unexpected Journey into the Heart of Grace, which, again, listeners that's due to release on April 6 of 2021. It's available on amazon.com. Anything you want to say about your publisher, Katie, or any other notes on where folks can find the book?

Katie Langston 45:42

Yeah, you should be able to find it on all the kind of major publishing sites Amazon, Barnes and Noble, bookshop.org. If you'd rather shop indie or indie bound, it's available there as well that you can order from your local independent bookseller. And, yeah, if you want to learn a little bit more about it you can go to my website, which is KatieLangston.com. And you can you can see some of the early reviews and preorder there. And then Thornbush Press is the name of the publisher to new indie theological press that I'm honored and delighted to be partnering with for the release of this book.

Robin Linkhart 46:24

That is great, Katie, and thank you again for being with us. Thanks so much to all of you, our listeners for sharing a part of your day with us today. This is your host, Robin Linkhart. And you are listening to Project Zion Podcast. Go out and make the world a better place. Bye Bye.

Josh Mangelson 46:52

Thanks for listening to Project Zion Podcast. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or whatever podcast streaming service you use. And while you're there, give us a five star rating. Project Zion Podcast is sponsored by Latter-day Seeker Ministries of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are of those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Latter-day Seeker Ministries, or Community of Christ. Music has been graciously provided by Dave Heinze.

Project Zion Podcast

358 | Sealed | Katie Langston

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