Flip Houses Like a Girl

From Fear to Flipping: Lois's Journey Through House Renovation Challenges

• The FlipSisters • Episode 124

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What happens when your contractor disappears to Brazil with your deposit money? How do you recover when your "simple" $10,000 renovation balloons to $30,000? Lois takes us behind the glossy before-and-after photos to reveal the messy, beautiful truth about house flipping.

With a background in mortgage financing, Lois understood the numbers side of real estate but hesitated to jump into investing because "it was just too scary." That changed when she joined our community and took action—purchasing her first flip within 90 days. What followed was a journey filled with unexpected challenges, powerful lessons, and remarkable personal growth.

Her candid account of breaking even on her first flip and losing money on her second provides invaluable insights for both novice and experienced investors. From foundation issues that turned out to be simple drainage problems to the emotional high of transforming neglected properties into beautiful homes, Lois shares the unfiltered reality of house flipping. She explains how she discovered she's not risk-averse but "calculated risk friendly," and how this mindset shift transformed her approach to both real estate and life.

Beyond the financial details, Lois reveals the profound personal satisfaction she finds in the transformation process—putting herself in the buyer's shoes, making thoughtful design choices, and giving houses a chance at a new story. Her journey parallels her other surprising life adventures, including joining a college marching band in her fifties and becoming an ultra-runner in her forties after never considering herself athletic.

Whether you're contemplating your first investment or recovering from a challenging flip, Lois's story reminds us that success isn't measured solely by profit margins but by courage, resilience, and the willingness to keep showing up. As she wisely notes, "It's amazing what happens if you just take little steps forward. You'd be shocked at what might happen if you do that."

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The Flipsisters
Leaving people and places better than we find them.

Speaker 1:

You're listening to the Flip Houses Like a Girl podcast, where we educate, empower and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly chasing their dream of flipping houses. Each episode delivers honest-to-goodness tools, tips and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip.

Speaker 2:

Hey there, welcome back to Flip Houses. Like a Girl, I'm Sis Donnelly, a real estate investor coach and proud member of this amazing community for nearly six years now. Today's episode is a wild ride in the best way possible. Our guest, lois, took us on a rollercoaster journey full of twists, turns and total transformation. She's opening up about the powerful mindset shifts that helped her push past fear, take action and grow in ways that she never expected. We're talking real talk, real houses, real breakthroughs. And she's not done yet. Lois shares what's next on her journey and, trust me, you're going to want to hear it. Be sure to listen all the way to the end. Lois drops some seriously valuable lessons she's learned along the way, and you'll hear how the Flip Sisters community has played a big role in her journey. Let's dive in.

Speaker 3:

I'm Lois. I live in Cary, north Carolina, which is right outside of Raleigh. Let's see why did I want to get started pooping houses? My whole career has been in residential mortgage and then mostly commercial mortgage, small business financing. So just in general, I like buildings, I like houses, I like real estate, I like financing, I like the math, I like figuring out how it all fits together and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3:

So I've had a love for real estate investment for a long time and have never actually participated because it was just too scary, right. I mean, I I knew I knew a lot of stuff, but I didn't know all this stuff. So it was almost on a whim when I saw like the flip sister stuff come up and I was like, ooh, I'd love to fix up old houses, like I'd love to really do this, and here's a group that's going to show me the way and they look really cool. So I joined. You know there wasn't an enormous amount of research or forethought that went into it, but I just went for it and really the thing that impressed me the most is that as I started I reached out. I think the first person I talked to was Blair, or I don't know if I talked to her. We communicated somehow and and and she answered some questions and the first thing I noticed was that you weren't asking me for money. So I was like, hmm, well, that's cool. And then, like the next time there was a conversation and again I don't remember if it was email or what the form of the conversation was, but it was another thing where it's like they do sound really great and they're still not asking me for money. So I'm like all right, you know that that may be even more interested in, in more feeling like this is they're not just trying to get a subscription, you know they're, they really have an interest. And that's that's exactly how I felt ever since then. And and not to be like a shameless, like you know butt kisser, but it's I mean I've gotten nothing but support and good things out of this group. I love that.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, that you know, and it also, like I mentioned before, this kind of coincided with me really kind of getting on my own. I'd gotten divorced and my kids were getting a little older at that. When I did my first split they were still. I think they were still in high school. I think my son, my son was either a senior in high school or freshman in college, so they were requiring a lot less hands-on. They were, you know, they had reached a different stage in life. So it really worked out that I had the time and the energy to do this and both my kids helped on my first split. They, you know each, you know. My daughter especially, who was the younger of the two, was great. Like I was able to say, hey, can you paint the edges of that ceiling?

Speaker 3:

And she's like, yep, she just did it, it was so cool to have both of them involved in that kind of thing, so that was great. So it was. It was all just kind of like you know, kind of everything in the universe leaning towards perfect timing, and I was kind of like you know, and I thought things through. I'm like, okay, this, this is scary, and you know what's, what's the worst thing that can happen, the worst thing that could happen, is that I might lose some money and I will be okay, like I have earning capacity. You know, worse, worse, worse scenario, cause I use my home equity line of credit for for my, you know, my I was my own hard. I used my home equity line of credit for my, you know, I was my own private money lender.

Speaker 3:

I was, like you know, worst case, absolute worst case. If I really got in trouble, I can sell this house, I can pay it off, I can move on, it's all going to be okay. So that's what I had to kind of keep telling myself as I got involved. Like you know, it's okay to have a healthy level of fear, but I can't let that rule me. And I also realized too that I've always thought I was very risk averse. And I'm not risk averse. I am very I'm very calculated risk friendly. I'm not wild risk friendly, and that was as I realized. I'm like, if I understand the situation and I've done the numbers and I feel comfortable with best and worst case, I'm fine and I'm willing to take some risk on you know. So. So that was kind of cool to find out about myself, as I really kind of dove in there.

Speaker 2:

So you actually just made me have kind of a light bulb moment, yeah, because I have always thought of risk tolerance as being risk averse or risk friendly, and that was it. But you're right, there's this huge spectrum, right. Like not everybody is going to be in the same. You can't just define it as one end or the other. There's always going to be this gray area where everybody falls a little bit somewhere different, right, yeah?

Speaker 3:

yeah, there's a lot of mitigating factors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%, 100%. So you bought your first flip pretty early on in the program. You were 90 days in and you were under contract on your first flip and, yes, you were paired up with Coach Blair. She speaks very highly of you. She was so excited for you to do this podcast. By the way, she was like kind of dinging me about it. Like sis, we really need to reach out to Lois. She is so cool.

Speaker 3:

That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

So you were paired up with Coach Blair and I remember her posting in our group congrats, lois, just under contract on her first flip 90 days in. Like you are the poster child right, you're following the process. You're a great student.

Speaker 3:

I am very coachable, I'm very teachable, which has served me well in my life and really I mean, again, I knew I didn't know everything but I felt very comfortable on the numbers side and the financing side because that's my background. So I mean, and I understand very comfortable on the numbers side and the financing side because that's my background. So I mean, and I understand financial statements, I understand balance sheets, I get all that. So that's one thing that I didn't struggle with, right, Like I already felt, like I had that in my back pocket. So a few little kind of like serendipity things happened to me in the very beginning.

Speaker 3:

I did go to a real estate investment network event and you know, again, I was, I was scared, but I went there. It was a luncheon and and somebody asked me, like you know, where do you fit in here? And I took a deep breath and I said I'm an investor and like nobody said really how many, like nobody cared, everybody was like okay, great, you know, like so that was kind of one of those where it's like, you know, even though I hadn't bought my first flip yet, I was like that that's all right, like you don't, you don't have to come in with a resume and a like a portfolio. You just show up and say this is me and ask questions and and again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I didn't die, it was all right. You didn't die, but did you die? Yeah that you didn't die, but did you die? Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite jokes, right and we're all so worried about.

Speaker 3:

Oh my God, people are going to question me and not believe me and like nobody cares, right, everybody is there to figure out stuff for themselves, and no different than me. So it was, you know, it was all great. So so, through that, I then joined their Facebook group and I noticed like a wholesaler out there whose name was really familiar, and this wholesaler, who worked for new Western at the time, both my kids are music majors. So funny, funny coincidence, he was a clinician for one of my son's band camps at ECU.

Speaker 3:

Oh small world. So, like many musicians, he's now in real estate. But I reached out to him and we were like OMG, OMG. So it was this wild, crazy connection. But I felt like that was kind of the world kind of pushing me to like it's going to be okay. You already know somebody out there and that's who I purchased my first flip through. I purchased it through a wholesaler, through this gentleman who you know again, former music connection, now real estate connection.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and, and I felt like I mean new Western guys and the wholesalers in general can get aggressive and you have to know your stuff. And I felt like I knew my stuff and I also felt like I felt comfortable with him, right, I felt like he wasn't going to let me get into anything that I shouldn't be into. So, and through him, like he would send me stuff and I learned how to evaluate a flip and do a deal and do a DA and pull some comps in like 15 minutes, like I cause I would look at these on my I was working full time, you know, so I was looking at these on my lunch break, you know I'd be kind of like.

Speaker 3:

Hey, I can look at this at noon today. If you think it's going to go by then, then forget it, I'm out. Right, I can either look at it at 12 o'clock or at five o'clock. You know, it was kind of like and that's what I would do. I would just, I would rapid fire these, these slips that would come through, so I would, and I quickly realized that most of them didn't fit for me, right, I was like.

Speaker 3:

I learned that their numbers were too tight and now he's since moved on to like his own. He's doing his own real estate sale stuff and occasional flips. But now I have a new Western guy and I told him up front. I said I'm like you know your model typically isn't going to fit for me. You know I'm like, but if you find something I'd be happy to run the numbers Anything near NC State or anything near the beach. That's what I told him. I'm like, if you've got something there I'd love to run the numbers. But I was very clear that beach again, exactly, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Someday I need a beach house, right, so it would be great if I found it as a flip. But yeah, doesn't everybody. Yeah, exactly, exactly so. Yeah, that was when I got my first flip was through him, awesome.

Speaker 2:

So what was purchase price on your first flip? What was renovation budget, timeline, arv, that sort of stuff? How did it start? Where did it wind up?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so upfront. I mean, I learned a lot through this. It was a pre foreclosure and it was. It was presented as it just needs new kitchen appliances and like a little bit of cleaning, right, yeah, right, not exactly. So that again a great learning experience for me. So I purchased it at $165,000. It was projected to sell at about $215,000. And I thought that was very conservative, and luckily it was.

Speaker 3:

And it was presented as oh, it needs like $10,000 into it, Okay, and it was presented as more like a whole tale. Well, I learned quickly nothing only takes $10,000. Okay. And it was presented as as more like a whole tale. Well, I learned quickly, nothing only takes 10 grand. There's no, it's like new carpet, right. Again, I learned, I'm always going to repaint the whole thing and I'm probably going to replace, or you're always going to replace carpet and you know, and this, this didn't need you know. It was kind of presented as oh, just paint the kitchen cabinets. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So for starters, like again, it was a pre foreclosure, so it was really it was. It had a sad story. Like as soon as I showed up, all the neighbors swarmed over, like that was a really good feel good moment.

Speaker 3:

They were like, yeah, thank God, like there's, this has been such a distressing house, we're really glad somebody has purchased it. You know it was the only not nice house on the block and it just. You know it was a bad situation. There was some, you know, child and family services have been called. There was some addiction.

Speaker 3:

There'd been some bad stuff you know so you know, and that's one of those things where it's like this was once a well-loved house and things happened, you know, and I was really glad to come in there and love it again, you know, and and bring it, you know, and show it some love and and find it, find a new family for it, you know.

Speaker 2:

So give that house a chance at a new story.

Speaker 3:

Exactly exactly. So. For starters, it was much, much more full of debris. It took two dumpsters to clean it out. And and then, like the, within 24 hours, the boyfriend who had been living there, like the woman who owned it, turned in her keys to the title company. Again, it was a pre-foreclosure. She's like, and all she wanted. Like, as I purchased it, she was going to get like five grand out of it, you know, and, and that was, she needed five grand to move on to turn in the keys. Well, the boyfriend showed up and ripped the garage door off the hinges to get into the house and get some things. So, like, my contractor was there that morning and he's like, oh, this just happened. I'm like, just let him take his stuff and go like, let's just move on.

Speaker 3:

So right away, I'm buying a new garage door, right and again. So that renovation budget was not 10,000. That renovation budget was 30,000 by the time we were done. And again I learned. I learned a lot of really important things, like you know, number one I trusted and I'm not saying my wholesaler steered me wrong Like this. That was, I should have gone through there and walked it myself. I did not. I trusted, I trusted his. You know his opinion. And again, from when he walked through it to when I purchased it, it was only a few days but it had. It had changed since the first pictures to what it was and I should have been there poking around more. So I mean, I wound up replacing the kitchen cabinets. I wound up replacing the toilet, the vanity. I wound up, you know, again repainting everything new carpet. It wound up having to have new windows, oh wow.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So, but through all this, luckily the contractor working on it was great. He was reasonable as we worked through this process. Working on it was great. He was reasonable as we worked through this process. You know there were a couple of things that he missed that he later repaired for free because his, his thing was like one-stop shopping, you know, for investors. I'm going to tell you it's this price, I'm going to fix these things and we're going to move on. And since there were a couple of things he missed, he came in and took care of those at no cost. So that was, that was great, you know, and again, there's things that we couldn't have foreseen.

Speaker 3:

I mean, they're again the person breaking in and I'm needing to put on a new grass shore, right, I know that, you know. So you know it is what it is and and I learned a lot of things through that. So, and again I learned, like a basic like I'm never going to flip a property with 10 grand in ever. That, not that's. And honestly, like I'm not going to do that. If I could even get away with it, I'm not comfortable. Like I don't want to lipstick anything. I want to do what needs to be done. So that is going to slim down the properties. That are options for me, and that's okay. Like I don't ever want to just put lipstick on it and scoot it along. So, again, very good learning opportunities for me to understand where I want to be in this whole market, right. So I wound up breaking even on it. Luckily, I was able to sell it for $225 instead of $215, which is good. I did have one buyer, I mean I did. So things I learned I will always stage a property. I mean I was kind, so things I learned. I will always stage a property. I mean I was kind of like man. It's like $2,500 to stage this thing. But I knew I'm like I'm not going to be able to sleep at night unless I am really presenting this in the best way that it can be presented. And that meant stage and you know what, holy shnikes Talking about a makeover?

Speaker 3:

I mean the contractor gave it a makeover. I did a lot of the painting myself, which I told myself I will never lift a paintbrush again. I am able to paint. I'm not going to paint anymore and I am able to do some. I am able to replace light fixtures. I'm not going to do that. I am able to replace outlets and light switches. I'm not going to do that ever again. Like I'm no, I will. I'm going to have a contract to do that. Just because I'm, just because I can, Doesn't mean that.

Speaker 3:

I should Right Exactly so. But I got to the point because this was running over budget. Those were the choices I had to make to keep it in any sort of a breakeven situation. So so those were things that I did to keep it within. Well, keep it within its overrun budget, okay so, and I did. I had one buyer come in. You know, initially I wasn't going to replace the windows. Their inspector gave them all this fear. They're like, oh my gosh, this is just a lipstick thing. No, it's not, you know. So anyway, they backed out. But here in North Carolina you have due diligence money that if they pull out, I get to keep that. So I kept that, and then that helped offset the cost. I want to just like. Even my realtor was saying, well, you could just replace the glass in these windows. I'm like, no, we're just going to do new windows, like it. Just why put new glass in windows that are borderline?

Speaker 1:

Like I'm just going to do this.

Speaker 3:

So again, and I again I can sleep better at night by doing that. So we did all that stuff and it was all good. So, yeah it, it wound up being a break even, you know. But again I learned a ton of things and I flipped my first house. I mean, how cool is that? I mean I, you know, I remember at one point, like cause I was kind of like, you know, kind of somewhat doubting myself at one point in the process and I think I had kind of posted my fears in the group and you flipped the house, right, you did the thing right, you did the thing right. Crap, you're right. And I did you die. I did not die, and you know, I did not die and I my and after pictures and I had such like a warm fuzzy feeling.

Speaker 3:

I had this warm fuzzy feeling like look at what this was and look at what it became and how happy the neighbors were, and also both houses that I've flipped, I've wound up having like these amazing supportive neighbors, like both, both situations. I had a neighbor who would like call me, like hey, lois, there's a red truck here, and I'd be like it's okay, it's the guy mowing the lawn, you know. Or he's like hey, somebody's walking by. The other day I ran him off. I'm like thank you, which that's invaluable, because I mean that house was about 45 minutes. It was about a 45 minute drive so I couldn't be there quickly. My second flip was like a 10 minute drive. That was a lot easier for me to just swing by.

Speaker 3:

But in both scenarios I had neighbors who were, who just like kind of took me under their wing and appointed themselves as the eyes and ears of the house and that was really great. So just knowing what I had done, what this process had done for that neighborhood, for that house, and and the other thing that I loved was putting myself in the, in the foot, in the shoes of the buyer, like who's going to buy this house? You know, I'm like it's in a great, it had great, great school system. So I'm like this is going to probably and it was very close to a military base I'm like there's going to be a military family, probably with young kids who's there's probably going to be their, their first home, and that's exactly what it was. So walking in there and choosing, like paint colors, choosing appliances, choosing cabinetry, choosing carpet, choosing all these things, with that mindset of here's, I'm a new home buyer with young kids.

Speaker 2:

What do I want?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that was really fun. And then I also really enjoy thinking of it that way. I felt like I was spending someone else's money. So I like that too. You would want this and you would want to pay this for it, so I'm going to buy that for you. So that was another really neat thing that happened. But again, even though I didn't make money on the deal, it was an amazing experience. Again, I didn't die.

Speaker 3:

I faced some fears, I made some great decisions and and, and I wanted to do another one. Like that's another thing. Like I, there are certain things that I know I do not want to do in this process. I do not want to be a residential realtor period. That's not anything that appeals to me. If I had to do that, I would not flip another house. That's just not my thing. That's not my thing. So I have, through this process, I found an amazing realtor who I've worked with. She sold that flip for me, she helped me purchase and sell my second flip and I run stuff by her all the time and she runs stuff by me, I mean. So it's been a great partnership. She understands investment, and what I love about her is she takes care of all the realtor stuff that I want no part of. When she calls me, she'll be like, hey, this just happened and here's two options and I think we should do this and I say sounds good.

Speaker 2:

Great realtor, and I'm with you. Oh my gosh, I want nothing to do with getting my license ever. I want to flip the house. I want to manage the project. I want to manage the house. I want to manage the project. I want to manage the budget. I want to do all of those things. I do not want to deal with buyers, I do not want to be, you know, on that end of it and I don't want to be scheduling showings. None of that, I don't want any of that when.

Speaker 2:

I'm done flipping the house. I want to be done with it. I want to get it off. And you know what? My agent is very similar. She handles things. She calls me. This is what happened. Here's option A. Here's option B. I like option A better and I'm like sounds good to me.

Speaker 3:

How easy is that? I know it's the best thing. I mean it's just yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2:

And I don't have to pay licensing fees, I don't have to do continuing ed classes, I mean honestly, I like the course content.

Speaker 3:

Like I, if I could, I'd be a professional student, right, I love learning stuff. I would be all over that. But yeah, that's the part I don't want to deal with. Like I know, on that first flip my wholesale agent was like he's like you know you could do for sale by owner. And I said I'd rather gouge my eyeballs out.

Speaker 3:

I'm like I want no part of that. You know I said so. What I pay in realtor commission is worth every penny, and you know that's what I like doing. Like I say, I am happily going to pay someone to put in outlets, light switches, paint and light fixtures, Yep, and sell the house and sell the house, yeah, and when you figure those things in in the beginning.

Speaker 2:

No-transcript.

Speaker 3:

Immediately. It was immediately as in, like I was under contract on the second, while the first one was under contract to be sold, and I told my realtor I'm like just to be clear, because I actually financed the first flip completely on my home equity Okay, so I had enough of a home equity line to not worry about a hard money lender, so so that was nice. However, that tied up my whole home equity line. So I was like I don't really want to do that again and again, if I'm, I realized if I'm doing that, I'm reaching for the deal too much, right? Yes, doing that, I'm reaching for the deal too much, right? Yes, I don't, I shouldn't. You know I'm, I'm reaching too much, I don't I should. I should be doing deals that I can price differently, where I can use a hard money lender, right? So that is what I did on my second deal. So my second deal was actually an MLS deal and my agent found it, I mean. So I decided at that point I'm like I really don't want to be driving an hour away to work on a flip. You know, I am more comfortable doing something in my backyard, and there's enough in my backyard that I should be able to find that.

Speaker 3:

So my next flip was also in Cary. It was like five miles away from my house, so that was Nice. So we looked at a few and again my agent is investor-friendly and she was kind of like here's a few options. And I ran the numbers and I was like, okay, I like this one. So it had been a rental for like 30 years, like nothing had really been updated on it. It had a really small, crummy kitchen. It was in a great area, okay, but a really gross. It would have really weird first floor layout and it just needed. It needed a lot of love. But again, had had great potential, great area, and people were scared of it because there were some foundation issues. And that was a great learning experience.

Speaker 3:

I learned to not be afraid of foundation issues because you know, but in the meantime, before before I got to that point, I'd had a couple what's the term? Foundation guys that, oh, structural engineers yes, yes, I had a couple of those. I think I had three come out and give me opinions and in the meantime I was factoring in about a $30,000 cost to repair the foundation, to fix the foundation issues. But really, I mean most of them said you know well, you can ram, jack it up. That's like 26 grand. And then another guy was like oh, I think it'd be about 20 grand.

Speaker 3:

And the third guy said he's like, he's like these cracks. He's like these are. He's like yes, they're cracks in your foundation. He's like, but these are more cosmetic issues. He's like the issue, I think, is the drainage, the water runoff, because there were no gutters on the house so the water had been just pouring next to the foundation and you know and stuff like that happens around here. So as far as like the soil and drainage and stuff, and he said he's like I think the problem is the drainage. He's like I think you put gutters on it and then I think you have, you know, french drains running from the gutters to well away from the foundation. He's like I think that's your fix. He's like I think you patch the foundation. He's like I think that actually corrects the problem.

Speaker 2:

So that's what I did, and I've actually yeah, I've actually worked on several flips with bad foundations, and 90% of the time it's a water drainage issue and, yes, sometimes the foundation also needs to be fixed. But it's not the end of the world, and once you can take care of that water, the deterioration stops.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so my engineer agreed. My engineer recommended that, signed off on it. I had a guy come out and take care of it, so that wound up being more like a $6,000 deal than a $30,000 deal. By that time I was already under contract, assuming I would pay $30,000 in foundation.

Speaker 3:

Okay. So that was a plus. However, there's more to the story, but anyway that that helped me understand again, that helped me find an engineer who I trusted. It helped me find, like you know, again a foundation guy who I trusted, and so again I'm building my portfolio of contractors that I trust, you know. Through it, you know, you find something that you like and something you don't like. So this, this again, is helping me go through that process, make phone calls, research it and educate myself, so so that that all wound up great. So I this was a really great flip and it's on my little Facebook page, but it's a really great flip to show before and after pictures.

Speaker 2:

This is the one with the fireplace right, the big tall. Oh my gosh, I wish our listeners could see the pictures. It is amazing. It's this beautiful accent wall, black accent wall, that goes all the way to this, like lofted or vaulted ceiling, and and it's just this big black.

Speaker 3:

Oh, it's just beautiful, it is the coolest that the kitchen went from being this really gross, strange kitchen to a beautiful kitchen, right. So it was just I. I love the befores and afters of that, so so, um, so I knew I was going to even when I bought it. I'm like we need to open up this kitchen. There's things that can be done. Luckily, I have a great friend who I've little side note I, for probably 15 years, I had my own custom window treatment business, so I worked with an interior designer.

Speaker 3:

Oddly enough, we both moved from St Louis to Raleigh right around the same time, so we've known each other for forever. And so when I need to do any sort of, you know, typically if I'm doing like color selection, even you know, flooring, carpet paint, I'll have her do it, because she just knows. And then I just do what she says and it always looks gorgeous. And then she drew a couple of floor plans for me on this because she quickly, you know, because I was like let's just knock all this out. And she's like, well, there's an HVAC stack here that and I talked to my I found a great HVAC guy too. He's like we can't. He's like I've looked all over, he's like we can't move that that's got to stay there. So we knew it couldn't be as open as I would like, but it was open enough. So anyway, omg, this is amazing. I'm like.

Speaker 1:

I want to do this one yeah.

Speaker 3:

So so that's what we worked on. So I had also, so I had a contractor. I had two or three different contractors bid the bid, all the improvements, cause it needed everything, right, it needed new doors, it needed new molding, it needed new baseboards, it needed a new carpet, needed new LVP needed, like the staircase needed some work. It needed everything. So I am quickly learning that if I go into a house like that, I'm probably I mean, we're talking 80 to 100,000 period. So that's really helped me look and honestly, I like that space, I like knowing I got to replace everything period. I would rather have that than well, I think I only need to replace this, but oops, I got to do that and that's another 10,000, right, I would rather have that than well, I think I only need to replace this, but oops, I got to do that and that's another 10,000, right, I'd rather say I got to do it all and again, then I can present a house that's every that, everything's new. You know there's no question of well, you should have done the windows. I did the windows, I did this and I had a roof inspection and I did the gutters and I did that and I, you know, it's just just, I would rather I sleep better at night doing that and I want to buy projects in that space at a price that I can do that.

Speaker 3:

So I I had my contractor that I worked with before he gave me a bid and I just felt like I wasn't. I had this gut feeling. I'm like I don't know if he's going to give me the finish that I need for this area. Maybe he would have. I mean we could have talked more, but I mean I just I wasn't comfortable. I had another couple that were like way out of the ballpark and I'm like just no, that's just no. Like this isn't my home, this is an investment property. You know, there is that, that balance, right. I mean we need something nice, but it doesn't need to be like what I would put in my house, right?

Speaker 3:

So then I picked a contractor in the middle and this contractor I had he'd gone on and looked at some other flips with me. He came recommended by a realtor and one of my real estate investment network groups and I expected him to be fine. So, yeah, so another learning experience, okay. So he got off to us, you know, and there were things Okay. So also, you know, the contract wasn't as strong as Flip Sisters would recommend, it be Okay. But I felt like I knew him well enough. I felt like it was good enough. I didn't know him well enough and it was not because and there were some questions. I was kind of like this is a little bit weird, but you know, yeah, yeah, I should have trusted that gut feeling Right Um so anyway, he got started and you know, I gave him.

Speaker 3:

He got started. I gave him some deposits. Then he was like, hey, I need deposits for the cabinets and for this, and that I gave him some deposits. Then he was like, hey, I need deposits for the cabinets and for this, and that I gave him some more money and ultimately he disappeared. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So ultimately I wound up having to sue him. I did get a judgment against him, so that's great, but he's he's ran off to Brazil, which is where he's from. I have this judgment against him, but I I'll never see a dime of that money, Right, so so that stinks, but you know what?

Speaker 3:

Okay, so silver lining, I actually looked at, I looked at like subbing out the rest of it myself, that was, and I did, I did all the flooring myself. I'm capable of that. I found I found a great window guy. That was a silver lining, a great window guy that he does only windows. So he's like next flip, he's like call me, I'll replace your windows Very reasonable, like I'll use him on windows for every flip that I do, you know.

Speaker 3:

Again, I found I already had a great flooring place. That was great. But I found a new contractor who is amazing. Right, it's a husband wife team. She's basically the project manager, he's the general contractor. They were fabulous. They came in and and did an unbelievable job.

Speaker 3:

So, you know, did my costs go up? Yep, yeah, but you know in in part. So that was one where it's like I, I thought I I didn't think I needed to. Again, there's a window thing. I didn't feel like I needed to replace the windows on that, but my contractor who left paid it over the windows. Yeah, so that became a okay. Now I got to replace the windows. So there's $7,000 I didn't account for, you know. So, anyway, and I also wound up holding the project longer because I thought it was. I accounted for six months, it wound up being nine months. So, uh, holding costs go up a lot when you're using hard money and you're paying extension fees. Yeah, those went up a lot.

Speaker 3:

And then, ultimately, the market shifted a bit. I wasn't selling it in April, which is the hottest time to sell. I was selling it in August, so so I wound up selling it for 15,000 less than I expected. So you know, all those things, um, I'm actually waiting for my accountant to tell me precisely what the loss was on that. But yeah, so it was not.

Speaker 3:

It's you know, luckily it wasn't as much of a loss as it could have been because I had, you know, allocated well for that foundation issue. I was also concerned I was going to have to replace HVAC and I didn't need to do that, like what I thought. The HVAC wasn't working when we went in. So I'm like, all right, 10 grand for that. That turned out to be like $1,500. So I luckily had some really good things to offset that. So it could have been a bigger loss than it was.

Speaker 3:

But I mean, I bought it at 300. I sold it at 485 initially and I thought I was going to sell it at 500. I thought it was going to be about 80,000 to renovation. It was over 120,000 renovation. You know, part of that was paid to the guy who ran off with my deposit. Um, and then my carrying costs went again. I held it not six months, I held it nine months. So so that and again that once I once I really looked at the numbers as I was turning that into my account and I was like, oh, no wonder I have this balance on my home. I could have cut it line yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, that was I. That was not a break even loss yeah, mostly because of the carrying cost. But again, I mean that aside, it was an amazing before and after. I found a great window guy. I found a great contractor.

Speaker 3:

I mean I honestly can't wait to work with that contractor again. So also, I didn't pursue anything else since last fall because I decided to go back to grad school. So I'm getting my master's in accounting, so that started in August. So the good thing is that, luckily, I've gotten to know myself well enough that I mean I always put more on my plate than I can handle. But even I knew, like Lois, you cannot do a flip right now, like you're working full time and you're going to grad school. You need to back off. And I did Right. So now I have the summer open, so now I am going to start. Now I am. I am really, um, I have never done much of a like a male campaign, but I realized that's where it's at. Going straight to the sellers, that's where it's at and that's what I am planning to actively pursue Driving around, picking out houses, doing the lists, marketing that way. That's the way to go.

Speaker 3:

So, that's what I plan to do going forward is to really focus on my mailing campaign and see what that, see what that, because I think that'll be. I think that's going to be really lucrative.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, you're looking to find your next flip. I mean, yeah, yeah, break even on the first, probably losing some money on the second, right, yeah, and you're still looking to do your next flip because you have lessons learned. Yes, yes, contracts, contracts, contracts are super important, right, yes, yes, purchase price that purchase price is really, really important. Getting those inspections and those contractor estimates before you get in, you know, not testing those wholesaler numbers, all those things, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I know they're not all going to be wins right. I mean that's the reality. So hey, I've gotten a break even and a loss. I'm due for some wins.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I've learned so much Like I've learned enough right?

Speaker 3:

I think I will be in a space to have those wins.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, and I think you've had a ton of wins. Yes, what is your favorite part of the entire flip process?

Speaker 3:

Putting myself in the buyer's shoes and saying this is what I want. That's my favorite part. So again, I have, you know, having done, you know, been in the window treatment. You know interior design. I mean I am not a designer, you know, but just kind of being in that space I have a good eye for, like, does it have good bones right? And I know also again, like, does it have good bones Right and have it. And I know also, again, staging, staging, staging. Like I know, when I'm done with a flip, people walk in and they're like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing.

Speaker 3:

The other great thing about that second one being right in my backyard I hosted my own little social open house, so I had my hard money lender came by. I had a couple of realtors come by. I had some some neighborhood friends come by. So I had my hard money lender came by. I had a couple of realtors come by. I had some some neighborhood friends come by, so I had people come by and that also kind of helps spread the word about this is what I'm doing on the side. You know, if you know, you know so that I felt like it was a really good little marketing opportunity and just also like a feel good thing, Like it gave me a chance to kind of show off what I was doing, thing Like it gave me a chance to kind of show off what I was doing.

Speaker 2:

Build those relationships, build those relationships A hundred percent. Do you have any?

Speaker 3:

limiting beliefs or mindset, obstacles that are different now than when you started. I mean, I've gotten rid of a lot of the limiting ones. Do I have new ones that exist? Yes.

Speaker 2:

I love that you can't think of any. I really can't, I can't. You guys have been so good. You guys have been so good.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I feel like the sky's the limit, right? I mean, one thing that I have learned is you know, again, I am aware of my like, my scope, like again.

Speaker 1:

I can't.

Speaker 3:

I was even having a day yesterday where again, I'm in between jobs right now. So my government job ended about a week ago and I've been looking for my next spot. I've got some good responses. I think something's coming soon.

Speaker 3:

But I had this moment yesterday where I'm like I need to be a commercial realtor, that's my next move. Okay, and I was all ready to go click because I'm like I have to get my licensing anyway, whether I'm residential or commercial, but I licensing anyway, whether I'm residential or commercial. But I'm like, okay, I'll do that right now. It's like Lois, stop, I'm going to grad school. Okay, I've got other learning things that I need to take care of before my classes start in the fall. It's like you don't need to take that realtor stuff right now. Like if somebody is going to actually hire you, then great, but right now I don't need to do that today.

Speaker 3:

So just knowing, like, back off, finish the project in front of you and focus on that and then, if you're bored, then absolutely go do that. So that's. That is all of this, like realizing my limitations, understanding how much I can put on my plate and not driving myself crazy Like those cause I can. I can do a lot, but even I will still overload that. So having that self-awareness like you need to draw the line here that has been great because I yeah, then I can do things effectively and efficiently and I'm not making myself crazy. So, yeah, those that's really, that's really what has. Those are things that I've actually been able to do here in the last year is to say I can't do another one right now. I can't do this right now, but you know what, in four months I can. So it's okay, just wait till I can take it on and then I can do it well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah. Your mindset is indescribable, right? Like, what do you do on a daily basis to keep your mindset so positive and so like self-reflective and also not beating yourself up? That's a balance, right? How do you? How do you balance that? Well, it's taken a long time.

Speaker 3:

No, I look for the good, you know, I look for the positives. I mean, now, am I, am I like that a hundred percent of the time? No, there are days where I'm like groveling and beating myself up, but those days now are few and far between and I've learned like there's plenty of other people in the world that might beat me up. I don't need to beat myself up, like let them do it. I don't need to be in that space. I need. I've learned you know there's there's a couple you know, like reels that I've seen. I need to talk nicely to myself and what I say to myself matters, and so I've gotten a lot better at that. And again, just looking at the positives and believing that the world wants good things for me and good things are going to happen, and it might be down a weird, uncomfortable path but it's good for you, you know I mean, and that that really helps.

Speaker 3:

I mean, again, right now I'm unemployed. That's really scary. I'm, I'm a single mom with two kids in college. That's scary, but I have to believe, you know, and I I like to be able to see the path ahead of me. I can't see that path right now, so I just have to walk forward and wait for that path to reveal itself. And, you know, and that's just just trust the process and and not do anything really dumb.

Speaker 3:

I mean now, now is not the time to go to go do expensive vacations. Right now is not the time to buy a flip without a lot of great research, right? I mean, I know where I'm at. I know, you know, I've, I've, really I knew this unemployment was looming. You know, probably I've really honed by, fine tune my spending. I'm very well aware of what my costs are and what it takes. And, and again, you know, worst case, I sell my house and I downsize. You know I'm not opposed to that. You know I don't think that's going to have to happen, but always so think positive and have an exit strategy. You know, you've got a plan.

Speaker 2:

You've got a plan, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so that's what does it.

Speaker 2:

Lois, this has been an absolute roller coaster for me, because I'll be. I had no idea coming into this conversation where you ended up on these flips, and so I had this whole roller coaster with you the entire time and it was an amazing ride.

Speaker 3:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

And I am so honored that you're willing to share all the real stuff with us today and to be vulnerable and be open about it and share those lessons that you learned, because that's hard right. And sharing your mindset, like sharing your positive outlook, your willingness to speak kindly to yourself and keep moving forward, and even though the path isn't always clear, I think that's really important. Yeah, and that's what's going to make you a successful real estate investor.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Yeah, I mean I've loved the journey so far. I'm thrilled to talk about it. Like I said earlier, I'm like, I love to talk about me. Call me anytime for a podcast.

Speaker 2:

They don't love to talk about themselves.

Speaker 3:

right, exactly, and yeah, if I can save some. I mean I know certain things like you know. You can have people tell you things and sometimes you've just got to do it to really learn the lesson. But I mean you know, if, if any of my you know successes or failures are helpful, I am, I'm glad I could share them and I hope they help somebody so.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for that. Is there anything else that you would like people out there to know before we leave for the day?

Speaker 1:

Is there anything we?

Speaker 3:

didn't cover that you'd like to talk about. I mean, I'm doing things today, in my 50s, that if you had told me decades ago I would be doing, I would have said there's no way I'm going to do that. And you're crazy, you know, just in Marching bands.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to plug that. Marching bands.

Speaker 3:

So let me talk about that. So yeah, as I, as I enrolled in grad school, both my kids are music majors and and our, our love of marching band really flourished once they got into high school marching band. And I'm a student at NC state university and when I, when I enrolled, I thought to myself I wonder if I can be in the marching band. And I was. I was the marching band kid as a high schooler and I was actually a music major my first two years of college, 35 years ago. So I still, you know, there's, there's that. So I called band director and I said hey, you know, as a non-traditional student, am I eligible to be in the marching band? And he said you've got to pass the audition, but sure. So I practiced my French horn all summer, last summer, and I submitted an audition tape and I got in.

Speaker 3:

It has been the best experience and it's been so fun. And, yes, I am 35 years older than everyone else in that band and it was great. I mean, who gets to go back and do that kind of stuff?

Speaker 2:

Right Look at you out there doing, doing these non-traditional things, scary things, intimidating things, right, but also thrilling and fun.

Speaker 3:

I would imagine it's been so fun. I mean, again, I I'm uncertain what my job situation is, but I right now I am enrolled to go back this fall, so hopefully my, my job situation will allow me to do that. And, um, and I mean I'm so glad I did it, I'm so glad that I'm doing these. You know wild and crazy things and it's so fun. And yeah, don't, don't give up on yourself, you know. I mean ask the questions, give it a shot and see where it goes. You know, and I mean certainly prepare.

Speaker 3:

I mean I, I didn't just get off the couch and do college marching band. I mean I was. I was a runner, I was in good shape, I knew I would have to be it's very physical and I knew the only way I was able to do it was because I was in good physical shape, I mean. But you know it was, um, you know, all all these things just kind of came together to to help me do these things. I mean I'm I'm also an ultra runner. If you'd have told me 30 years ago that I would do that, I would have told you. You are crazy. I am not an athlete and I wasn't an athlete until I was like in my mid forties I was not at all. I mean not at all, and I've done all these crazy athletic things. So it's it's amazing what happens if you just take a little steps forward. You know you'd be shocked at what might happen if you do that.

Speaker 2:

So I love that Great that's. That's an amazing place to end it today. So thanks for being here with me today. I have enjoyed this thoroughly and I can't wait to share all of this with all of our listeners out there, and I can't wait to see you get your next flip. So please, please, please, make sure and stay engaged in the Facebook group with us.

Speaker 3:

We want to know what you're up to and you've got that coaching. So sounds good, great. Thank you so much. I'm delighted to share my story and I can't wait to share future adventures.

Speaker 2:

Huge thank you to Lois for showing up with such honesty and grit today. Your candor reminds us that it's not about having a perfect story. It's about owning your journey and showing up anyway Around here. We don't chase perfection and showing up anyway Around here. We don't chase perfection. No, we chase progress, learning, grid and that magical combo of tenacity and self-reflection that keeps us moving forward, even when the road gets messy and, let's be real, it usually does. This community, it's 100% built on support and non-judgment. Our goal is for you to do your first flip in a way that makes you want to do it again. Whether you're crushing your fifth flip or have zero experience in real estate, you belong here. If today lit a spark or even just cracked open the door, come join us at theflipsisterscom. We've got tools, training and a whole squad of women ready to cheer you on. Until next time, keep showing up, keep learning and remember you don't have to do it perfectly, you just have to do it. Catch you soon.