Criminal Discourse Podcast
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Criminal Discourse Podcast
Incomplete Justice the Vanishing of Kathy Heckel
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Can secrets buried within a small town and the heart of a seemingly ordinary family lead to a haunting mystery that lingers for decades? Join us as we navigate the twisted tale of Kathy Heckel, a Pennsylvania mother whose 1991 disappearance from Lock Haven left a void in her family and perplexed investigators for years. This episode peels back the layers of Kathy's life, revealing a suspected affair, enigmatic financial transactions, and the unnerving lack of physical evidence that would baffle authorities and entangle her co-worker, Lloyd Groves, in a web of suspicion.
Feel the weight of uncertainty and sorrow that settled over Kathy's loved ones, paired with the chilling calm exhibited by Lloyd Groves, whose steely demeanor and contradictory behaviors only deepened the enigma of Kathy's fate. We'll walk you through the striking absence of clues left in her abandoned car and the disturbing finds within Lloyd's van, as well as the innovative DNA technology that eventually tied him to her disappearance, painting a harrowing picture of a crime that challenged the very essence of criminal investigation.
This episode doesn't just stop at the story of Kathy Heckel. We cast a light on the landmark trial that led to Lloyd Groves' conviction without a body—a testament to the relentless pursuit of justice. Kathy's narrative is a gateway into a broader discussion on the unsolved cases that haunt Pennsylvania, the enduring pain of their families, and the implications of these mysteries on the communities they've left behind. As we analyze the courtroom drama, the family's trials, and the ripple effects of such a profound loss, you'll find yourself gripped by the resilience of those who seek truth in the face of the unknown. Join us for an exploration of a true crime saga that reverberates with the tenacity of the human spirit.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Criminal Discourse Podcast. I'm Wendy and I'm Trish and we're coming to you with another episode from Pennsylvania this week. But don't fear listeners who are not from Pennsylvania. We will branch out even further. Next episode no crime updates today, so we can get right into it, right?
Speaker 2So we know that there are so many true crime podcasts out there to choose from and only so many hours in the day, and we want to take a moment to say we truly appreciate you choosing to listen to us today. If you want to join the discourse, you can reach out to us on our website, criminal discourse podcast dot com, or on social media, or on Facebook, instagram and and YouTube at Criminal Disc Pod and Criminal Discourse Podcast. And one last thing the views and opinions discussed on Criminal Discourse Podcast are just that our views and opinions, and everyone is presumed innocent until convicted in a court of law.
Speaker 1This case takes place on July 15, 1991. That's where it starts. When 40-year-old Kathy Heckel left work for her lunch break like it was any other Monday, she couldn't have known that it would be her last. She never returned and her loved ones haven't seen or heard from her since, 24 years later. A co-worker was charged with her murder, even though Kathy's body is still missing and investigators can't determine how he killed her.
Speaker 1Now I came across this episode. It is from Dateline. They did an episode on it. I think it was 2019 or 2020. And I haven't had a chance to see it recently, but it's a very interesting case, a little twisty turny. I think the most fascinating part is the fact that we don't have a body. We don't actually have any evidence really that a crime happened. So it's very interesting how they were able to catch this guy and put him away for a crime that I, at least at the end of this, very much think he committed.
Speaker 1Now, catherine Jeanette Dolan, who went by Kathy. She was born in Ann Arbor, michigan, on June 25, 1951 to parents Clarence and Margaret. She had two brothers, dan and Steve, and a sister, cindy. The Dolans moved to Lock Haven, pennsylvania, when Kathy was young and she graduated from high school there in 1969. Now Lock Haven is located in the rural north central portion of Pennsylvania. It's about 30 miles northeast of Pennsylvania State University and a little over three-hour drive northwest of Philadelphia. It's the seat of Clinton County, which has a population density of just 43 people per square mile and, for reference, the average in the state of PA is about 284 per square mile. Part of the Appalachian Mountains runs through this region, affording beautiful scenery and ample natural recreation. That's why I've been there. The state park, oh yeah, it's gorgeous. I mean it's rural, very A lot of farms, mountains.
Speaker 1After graduation, kathy took a job as a data processor at Hammer Mills International Paper Company, a paper mill and major local employer in the area. After working there part-time during high school In June 1972, she met John Heckel, a US Army officer, while he was on leave from a combat tour in Vietnam. A year later John and Kathy married. Children Alicia and John IV followed a few years later. Kathy was called a devoted and loving mother, as well as a diligent and well-liked employee.
Speaker 1Kathy stayed at Hammer Mill, earning a promotion to administrative assistant and then plant controller in human resources. John climbed the ranks in military to command, sergeant Major, the highest rank for a non-commissioned officer. Since John routinely had to work away from home for long periods, kathy mostly ran the household and managed the family's finances. In the late 1980s the couple seemed to hit a rough patch. That's when their credit started to deteriorate and from 1987 until 1991, kathy made about $50,000 worth of withdrawals from their joint bank account and John couldn't account for this. Kathy never explained it. During this time, kathy occasionally went out without telling John where and stayed out what he called late into the night, and one time she was gone so late that he went out searching for her.
Speaker 2Would she do this also when John was away, because you mentioned he was away a lot with the military?
Speaker 1My assumption as I read these things was that, yes, a lot of this happened when he was away and I think to the kids were probably you know this would be when they were seven, eight and 1112. This was more toward like the 1990 1991. Now john, at this point he was suspecting that Kathy was having an affair. That's what these trips were about and although he never confronted her about it, he thought it might be with her co worker, 42 year old Lloyd Groves. Lloyd was an industrial chemist specializing in asbestos abatement when he joined Hammermill in 1981. His wife was also named Catherine and they had four school-age children together. Catherine worked part-time at a local library.
Speaker 1The Groves and Heckle families both lived in Lock Haven and their children were friends and schoolmates of similar ages. So Kathy and Lloyd had frequent contact outside of work. They played on a work-sponsored volleyball team together as well. Now, in the spring of 1991, john became suspicious when Kathy stopped taking her kids to volleyball practice at the YMCA with her. She started telling them that it was for adults only. So that really raised his red flags. But he didn't confront her about it, it just made him suspicious. According to multiple witnesses, john Heckle was right about the affair between his wife and Lloyd Groves, although Lloyd has always denied this. Around June 1991, lloyd and Kathy started meeting up over their lunch hour at the Heckles home or in the back parking lot of a local Kmart, and they would often have sex in the back of Lloyd's van Kmart took me back because we don't have any of them anymore, and that's like the grandparent to.
Speaker 1Walmart used to shop there all the time. Yeah, the witness I believe for those was a Kmart employee or someone at the shopping mall and he said he took notice of this because Kathy wouldn't enter the passenger side of the van. Every time she met up with Lloyd she would open like the sliding side door of the van and like step into the back. So it really caught his attention Like, oh hey, what are they doing in there Now? Around the same time, kathy and John attended a wedding where Kathy ran into a childhood friend, a man named Dennis Taylor. Kathy and Dennis reconnected that night, exchanging information and promising to meet up. Catching up turned into romance by early July and Kathy told Dennis about her affair with Lloyd and her plans to end it. According to Dennis, lloyd refused to accept Kathy's decision. She told Dennis that Lloyd was quote becoming a clinging vine. He keeps calling. I don't want to talk to him. I just started to hang up. Dennis described Kathy as annoyed but also fearful over Lloyd's reaction.
Speaker 2And these phone calls would be on a landline. Yes, they weren't a cell phone.
Speaker 1Yeah, and they work together. I'm not sure if he called her at work, but I'm assuming that he was also pursuing her at work, following her around. Dennis said too that when Kathy quote broke it off it was causing her a lot of consternation because Lloyd wasn't willing to give up. He was treating it very badly, stalking her, saying things to her very lewd. On one occasion he wrote a card that he had given her. It was very graphic on what kind of sexual things that he would do with her and wanted to do with her. And on different occasions she said that she was actually scared because he was following her. He would take anything she would give him. He just wanted a place in her life.
Speaker 1Now Dennis and Kathy made plans to meet up the next time on the night of Monday, july 15, 1991. Kathy reported to work as normal that day and brought coffee and donuts to a mid-morning meeting with 18 other Hammer Mill employees. The conference room was located near Lloyd Groves' office and when Kathy came in, lloyd barged into the room, disrupted the meeting and stormed after Kathy. An audible argument between the two of them followed, of course witnessed by many employees, but no one could hear exactly what was being said between them.
Speaker 2And no one from these other 18 employees went after them to see if she was okay.
Speaker 1No, no, he was slamming doors. I guess they still listened in, I think, to make sure that it was just an argument, but I can't really defend that. Nobody stopped him from slamming around and causing a scene. Around 1130 or 1145 am Kathy called Dennis Taylor at work. He said that she sounded disturbed and upset and told him that Lloyd wanted to go to lunch with her. Dennis had to cut the call short so he could get back to work, but he promised to call Kathy back shortly. When he did, she had already left for lunch.
Speaker 1Kathy's closest work friend, carol Smith, recalled that Kathy left for the lunch hour like it was any other day, saying she had some errands to run. She didn't say to Carol that Lloyd wanted to go to lunch with her. This was only to Dennis. Carol was among several witnesses who, quote, observed a visibly angry Lloyd Groves leaving the same time as Kathy. Now another co-worker who noticed the scene, jean Carter. She followed the pair out to the parking lot Good job, jean. There she spotted Lloyd and Kathy sitting in the front seat of Lloyd's van. Lloyd, quote, appeared angry and red-faced and was looking at Kathy and red-faced and was looking at Kathy. Catherine Groves said that Lloyd came home unexpectedly around 12.45 pm to change his clothes.
Speaker 2Was that normal for him to do that, to just kind of show midday?
Speaker 1She, catherine Lloyd's wife, said in fact that that was the first time, now he'd been working there for eight years, that he ever came home on his lunch break. He had already removed his outer shirt and told her quote he had a mess at work and it wasn't unusual for him to get messy in the job that he did. But he never brought it home. Lloyd did his own laundry since the beginning of their marriage, so Catherine never inspected the clothes he brought home. Lloyd was in and out within 10 minutes and Catherine didn't question him about it afterwards or ever.
Speaker 1Lloyd returned to work that afternoon, but it's not clear exactly when. He kept a daily work log meticulously, but he had stopped recording. Back on July 1st he wasn't present at a 2 pm meeting he was supposed to attend, but co-workers spotted him around the mill sometime later. Lloyd arrived home at about 5.30 pm with pizza for the kids. It was his and Catherine's 18-year wedding anniversary that day, so they went out to dinner. Catherine said that Lloyd quote appeared preoccupied, but she assumed it had something to do with work.
Speaker 2Was the July 1st date significant in any way? Is this around the time she started reconnecting with Dennis Taylor?
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't know exactly what date the wedding was where they met and I don't know when they started seeing each other romantically, kathy and Dennis. But it does say that in early July is when she started telling Dennis that she was going to end it with Lloyd. So that does make me think that this is when he got the news from Kathy that you know she wanted to end it and things started changing. I guess is the best way to put it, but I don't know if it was exactly July 1. Even though Dennis Taylor wasn't able to reach Kathy Heckle by phone, he still went to the restaurant where they planned to meet that evening. She never showed Kathy's work.
Speaker 1Friend Carol Smith grew concerned hours earlier when Kathy never returned from her lunch break. In the rare event Kathy returned late, she always called to let someone know. Carol told her supervisor what happened and then she went to the parking lot looking for either Kathy's car or Lloyd's van. She had a gut feeling that quote, lloyd could have done something to Kathy. Carol didn't see either vehicle the rest of the afternoon.
Speaker 2Did anyone see Kathy drive her own vehicle out of that lot or somebody else drive that vehicle out of the lot?
Speaker 1No, I don't believe so. It seems that she had to have driven the vehicle out of the lot somewhere around the same time that Lloyd left, but nobody saw her. The last time she was seen was when she was sitting in Lloyd's van with him.
Speaker 2And the mill didn't have any cameras on the parking lot.
Desperate Actions Following Disappearance
Speaker 1No, or if they did not, ones that would have seen that John Heckle was away on military duty in Fort Drum, new York, about seven to eight hours away. So when Kathy didn't come home on time, her nine and 13-year-old children were left home alone. They called Carol Smith, who was still concerned about Kathy not returning to work from her lunch break. Carol came over right away and called Kathy's mother, margaret Dolan. Especially when John was away, kathy kept her mom informed of her and the kids' schedules and any changes, and the kids had activities planned that evening. Margaret came over to the house to watch the children and then she called John to let him know what was going on. He headed home immediately on emergency leave. Once everyone was home, and without any idea where Kathy could be, her family reported her missing. Dennis Taylor went to the police as well to report Kathy's disappearance and share what he knew. A massive search effort began, with multiple search teams tracking dogs, horses, cadaver dogs and helicopters to cover an area of, they said, at least 10 miles, including several square miles of woods and mountains. Kathy's family offered a $5,000 reward for information as well. Now, although John Heckle worried that his wife might be preparing to leave him. You know he was suspicious of the affair. No one imagined that Kathy would abandon her children and Kathy talked to her daughter on the phone that morning confirming their evening activities and she even planned pork chops for dinner. Investigators were certain that Kathy had quote disappeared against her will.
Speaker 1Lloyd Groves reported to work the next day but his demeanor was anything but normal. It stood out that he wasn't concerned or distraught the way that other Hammer Mill employees were that day, especially those who knew Kathy and Carol Smith said that Lloyd quote appeared terrified. His demeanor was one of calm and cool and collected all the time. I mean you never saw him emotional or raising his voice or out of sorts, he was just very calm and cool.
Speaker 1As I was looking from the human resources office I saw him against the wall and he just had this terrified. I don't know how else to explain it, just this look on his face of a wild, terrified look like he was very shaken. When Lloyd drove his kids and one of their friends to the YMCA that night they noticed reddish brown stains on the van's carpeting that looked like blood. That same friend noticed those stains weren't there when he rode in the van on July 12th, so that would have been a few days before Kathy disappeared. Lloyd explained that he had killed a deer. It's a very Pennsylvania explanation for blood in the vehicle.
Speaker 1When Catherine Groves noticed the stains, Lloyd told her that their kids had spilled tar or oil in the van. She would later confirm that Lloyd didn't hunt much since he was a teenager and on the rare occasion that he did, he never used the van.
Speaker 2And I would hope you wouldn't use a carpeted van to haul deer. No, and it's July, that's not hunting season. And also, if he hit the deer like some, people will collect deers after they hit them but, there was no damage to the van.
Speaker 1No damage to the van. Yeah Police quickly learned about Kathy and Lloyd's affair through Dennis Taylor and some other Hammer Mill employees. When Lloyd agreed to an informal interview on Wednesday, july 17, officers already knew that Kathy had been what they called anxious and fearful about ending her affair with Lloyd, that dozens of their co-workers witnessed again what they called a loud and riotous argument between the two of them, and that Kathy was last seen alive with an angry Lloyd in his van and that Lloyd was missing from work for several hours afterward. They said Lloyd was cooperative at first, but that changed once officers told him he wasn't under arrest. After that they said almost everything was a no. He wasn't going to answer.
Speaker 1They were chilled by Lloyd's lack of emotion. Saying, quote he has no emotions whatsoever, nothing. This man is the coldest individual that I had ever seen in my life. They say he denied having a romantic or sexual relationship with Kathy Heckel and he couldn't remember what he did for lunch the day she disappeared just two days prior. So he didn't try to create an alibi. He just said I have no idea what I did on Monday. He described that day as simply a normal work day. That's it. This, coming from someone universally described by others as routine and detail oriented, very intelligent and not at all forgetful.
Speaker 2He didn't mention to him the big blowout argument running into her meeting screaming at her, cheering off after her.
Speaker 1Nope, he didn't mention that. He didn't mention going home in the afternoon to clean his clothes because he had a mess at work. Nothing at all. Early the next morning, thursday July 18, lloyd called Hammer Mill Communications Manager Julie Brennan in the HR department. Lloyd asked Julie what the police were saying and Lloyd hesitated, then said he forgot, and she found that very unsettling. Julie became even more disturbed when Lloyd asked her quote to make sure she remembered talking to him Monday afternoon and that he was in fact here at the mill. At that point it was clear to Julie that Lloyd Groves was looking for an alibi. Those were her words and she reported the conversation to investigators.
Speaker 1Based on the prior day's interviews, officers wanted to know if Lloyd would let them search his van in the mill parking lot. He consented once he was assured that he would get his van back after they searched it. However, officers seized the van after their search turned up a gym bag containing a partially used roll of duct tape, ammunition for a .25 caliber handgun and a hunting knife. Then they also observed that quote. Several sections of carpeting had recently been removed down to the plywood, and that was mostly near the passenger seat. Spots of what looked like blood bordered the cut areas. Lloyd told the officers that his kids had spilled tar or oil there and remember that's the same thing he told his wife, but he told his kids that it was deer
Speaker 1hunting. Meanwhile officers asked a Hammer Mill human resources supervisor to search Lloyd's desk for a handgun. They were thinking maybe the gun was in his office that matched the ammunition they just found. They delegated that task to Julie Brennan and she found a 25 caliber Colt semi-automatic pistol. The gun held five undischarged bullets, but it could have held two more, and that includes one in the chamber. Lloyd explained that the gun was an antique, he'd never fired it and he brought it to work for the purpose of selling it.
Speaker 2Do you know if they did any ballistic testing on the gun to see if it had been recently fired?
Speaker 1They did, and unfortunately they weren't. I can't explain why it was just a blip in an article that I found, but they Lloyd just fired this. Within the past week, lloyd was suspended from work, though, for having a gun on the premises, but he was desperate to return. He persistently contacted co-worker Mark Newman and asked for his help getting him back onto mill property. Lloyd suggested that Mark could hire him in his department under a different name, and Lloyd would also alter his appearance to avoid recognition. Mark refused and reported Lloyd's behavior to police instead.
Speaker 2Why was he so desperate? Just because he needed money? Desperate because he needed to do something to get back to that sense of normalcy, because you said, initially he would seem to be a very well-organized, almost rigid in a way, in what he did.
Speaker 1That's a good thought. My, I never thought of that. My initial instinct was there was some kind of evidence still at the plant, at the mill, that he needed access to to make sure it was gone or hidden. And he was desperate to get back in and get control of it. But then the other thing too is, you know, the police are there, people are talking and he wants to be what's going on?
Speaker 1Now Lloyd also contacted his friend Michael Lutz around this time to ask him if he would take care of his wife and children if he was arrested. Michael was shaken enough by the conversation to report it to police. This is what makes me think that there's evidence out there, maybe related to his workplace, that he's thinking if I can't get there and take care of this, they're definitely going to get me for it.
Speaker 2What do they also call that consciousness of guilt? Yes, you know, he knows he's guilty and he's doing these things in preparation of being arrested.
Investigation Into Kathy Heckle's Disappearance
Speaker 1Yeah, and there's about to be more of those Responding to a tip. Around 1030 pm on July 18th, police found the car Kathy drove to work the day she disappeared. It was parked in the Lock Haven Hospital parking lot, although they couldn't determine how long it had been there. This was not again the era of surveillance cameras, high-tech things where they could see you know when it came. It could have been there the whole time. It might have just arrived there that night. The keys were missing, but nothing else seemed suspicious and after investigators took Kathy's car into custody for forensic testing, they brought a scent dog back to the empty parking lot and they gave it Lloyd Groves' scent, and the dog quickly quote alerted to the precise spot where Kathy's car had been found. Otherwise, nothing of evidentiary value was collected from Kathy's vehicle. By the end of July, after two weeks of unsuccessful searching, the investigation into Kathy Heckle's sudden disappearance shifted focus to a possible homicide with a single suspect, lloyd Groves. Both Dennis Taylor and John Heckle had been cleared mostly by alibi, but compared to Lloyd also lack of motive.
Speaker 1On July 31st Pennsylvania State Police arrived with a search warrant for Lloyd's property in Woodward Township and they expected they might find Kathy's body there, or at least evidence of what happened to her. That included the Grove's home on 15 acres and the 65 acres they owned across the street with a barn and several outbuildings. When officers first arrived at the home, they observed the moment. When Catherine saw Lloyd approaching from across the way, his wife began quote shaking on the verge of passing out from fear. That's what the officers said. During the search, officer Dennis Johnson was struck by Lloyd's demeanor. This is what Officer Dennis Johnson said. I just observed Lloyd Groves sitting and just staring. He had four children who were sitting there and I had never seen anything like it. These children were so afraid of him that they just sat. They never looked up or anything, just kept their head down. There was never any talking, not a word, nothing between the kids and nothing between the father and the kids. It was just like he has total control.
Speaker 1In addition to the evidence they already collected from Lloyd's workplace and his van, officers collected three more guns, 11 knives and some stained clothing. They also found a note Lloyd wrote for his wife, catherine, which seemed highly suspicious considering recent events. The undated note included the couple's banking information, along with detailed vehicle and property maintenance instructions, as if Lloyd was planning to go away for a long time. Catherine confirmed that Lloyd wrote the note because quote he expected to go to jail. She explained that she felt Lloyd was looking out for us.
Speaker 1Between Kathy Heckle's disappearance on July 15 and the July 31 home search, Lloyd left home for three or four days. He didn't tell Catherine or the kids where he went or why, other than to say he needed to get away for a while. They didn't ask for more details. Catherine never suspected that Lloyd was having an affair and she told investigators that even if she had, she wouldn't have confronted Lloyd or done anything about it. Catherine also shared that quote. When Lloyd got angry he started throwing things and she wondered what he was capable of doing. After officers confronted her with evidence of the affair, catherine finally asked Lloyd about it. He denied it, telling her that quote Kathy was probably off somewhere with one of her numerous boyfriends.
Speaker 1In August lab results came back for the blood found in Lloyd's van. It was type A, like Kathy's, so they sent it to another lab for further DNA testing. This was enough for a search warrant to collect samples of Lloyd Grove's hair, saliva and blood. Investigators covered their basis and collected samples from Dennis Taylor and John Heckle also, but both of those men provided them voluntarily. After this, lloyd sold his family's property and moved about 200 miles west to Beaver, pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Unfortunately, the van blood samples weren't large enough for DNA analysis.
Speaker 1In the 1990s, the search for Kathy Heckle continued, even though her case grew cold. She was declared legally dead in 1998 after seven consecutive years of no activity with her social security number or her credit cards or any other accounts. In 2002, investigators reclassified Kathy's case as a homicide and resubmitted several pieces of evidence for forensic testing with more advanced DNA technology, including the blood found in Lloyd Grove's van. When trooper Richard Davey served Lloyd with a search warrant for a new blood sample, he said Lloyd quote wouldn't look me in the eye at all. He turned white and made no comment. Lloyd never asked why I was after his blood and was very quiet and subdued at the medical center. Now, after he was done having his blood drawn, so like when he was free to leave, lloyd finally started asking questions and when Trooper Davey responded, lloyd didn't react other than to quote, turn around and literally run down the hall to get away from Trooper Davey.
Speaker 2I just have this Like took off in a sprint.
Speaker 1Yes, and Lloyd was a former cross country runner in high school. They describe him to even as an adult, as a compulsive runner. He jogged a lot and this image of him just not saying a word, just hearing you know this is for evidence, comparison to evidence in Kathy heckles case and he just turns on his heel and sprints out of the hospital. Very suspicious, but also a little humorous. There were four spots of blood collected from Lloyd's van. Only one of them was large enough to generate a DNA profile. Now all they knew after 2002 was that all of the blood was human and the largest spot matched Kathy's type. It would take another decade for DNA testing to advance enough to generate a profile, but that result was conclusive. It was Kathy's blood in Lloyd's van, that one spot, and it was located close to the border of a piece of carpeting he cut out down to the plywood. Experts couldn't say how or when the blood got in the van. Lloyd couldn't either. There was one point where he tried to give an explanation that she had a cut on her finger the June previously, and he transported Kathy and her kids in the van back and forth to the YMCA, sometimes when they had volleyball. So perhaps she had gotten blood from her cut finger in his van. Did she cut her finger off? No, but there's there's no real explanation or reason other than she was bleeding. I will say too that even though you know investigators think that the blood got there because he killed her, they do not think that he killed her in the van, just that she was trans. It wasn't a large amount of blood for them to think that he, he actually murdered her there.
Speaker 1A year long grand jury presentation began in February 2014 to decide whether there was enough evidence to charge Lloyd Groves with homicide. Now that they had that DNA match that that spot was Kathy's blood, multiple Hammer Mill employees, friends, family members, investigators and scientific experts were interviewed. The grand jury decided that the case evidence and witness testimony established quote probable cause to believe that Lloyd Groves killed Kathy Heckel. It was clear to them that Kathy had attempted to end the affair, but Lloyd quote, with the settled purpose and obsessive manner which he brought to his work, resolved that Kathy should not leave him.
Unsolved Cases in Pennsylvania
Speaker 1Although investigators can't prove how Lloyd killed Kathy and disposed of her body, they believe it occurred between 12 and 1 pm on July 15, 1991, shortly after she left work on her lunch break. A co-worker found Lloyd later that afternoon quote in the basement near the flammable liquids closet. Now, this was an area he could access for his job, but he had no apparent reason to do so on July 15. Lloyd's job also gave him access to, and quote control over, numerous chemicals, to include acids, caustic substances and flammable substances, and any of these could assist with destroying physical evidence or a body. A local pool supply business owner also came forward, remembering that Lloyd purchased a 15 by 15 foot section of pool liner shortly before Kathy disappeared. Now he didn't have a pool or a water feature on his property and that liner has never been recovered. Gail Taylor a co-worker of Lloyd's between 1993 and 1996, remembered telling Lloyd about finding drugs in her teen son's dresser. Gail said to him if the drugs don't kill him, I will. Lloyd responded quote. Well, I can show you how to bury a body. So it would never be found. And the grand jury said quote.
Speaker 1They considered and rejected any argument that Lloyd's success in disposing of Kathy's body should not be an impediment to his prosecution or allow him to escape justice any longer. So 65-year-old Lloyd Groves was arrested on January 29, 2015 and held without bail on charges of first and third degree murder. Lloyd continued to deny the charges and the alleged affair, but his wife filed for divorce a year later. Pre-trial motions and Lloyd's health problems delayed his trial start date until November 2018, 27 years after Kathy disappeared. Lloyd's defense in a nutshell was that investigators can't prove Kathy is dead. Therefore, they can't prove a crime was even committed, let alone that he's guilty. The defense also came for Kathy's character, highlighting her infidelity, accusing her of using drugs and especially trying to make her widowed husband, john Heckle, appear suspicious. After 11 days of trial, a Clinton County jury acquitted Lloyd of first-degree murder but found him guilty of murder in the third degree, meaning the prosecution didn't prove premeditation or intent to kill.
Speaker 1Lloyd was sentenced to the maximum term in effect at the time of the crime 10 to 20 years, with credit for the four years he already served since arrest, plus a $10,000 fine. I think now, in the state of PA, it would be 20 to 40 years. In delivering that sentence, the judge commented on what they called the horrendous crime and the fact that Lloyd Groves will now have quote a state inmate number, something he has deserved for a long time. The judge emphasized the trauma to Kathy's family, which was exacerbated by never being able to recover her body, lloyd's lack of remorse and his personal knowledge of Kathy's young children. At the time, kathy's sister said that not being able to bury her remains means their family quote will suffer for years to come. Kathy's son confirmed that in the meantime, this was the sentence we were hoping for. He killed my mother. He should spend the rest of his life in prison and, at age 69, having already survived three heart attacks, 10 to 20 years was essentially a life sentence for Lloyd anyway. Now Lloyd insisted the cause of this loss was not me. I hurt no one. I committed no crime.
Speaker 1In his post-sentencing appeal, lloyd argued that there was no probable cause for any of the search warrants and evidence obtained from them.
Speaker 1Again, he's saying you don't even have proof that a crime happened. However, lloyd lied about his affair with Kathy to police, couldn't remember where he was or what he was doing when she disappeared and he was the last person seen with her. Following a heated argument, he told his friends and family that he would be arrested within the first few days after Kathy's disappearance, implying that a crime occurred and that he committed it. Furthermore, the search of Lloyd's van, to which he consented, and his work desk, which his employer owned and consented to, revealed blood, a knife, ammunition, duct tape and a gun, most of which Lloyd had no good explanation for. Lloyd also questioned the weight and admissibility of specific pieces of evidence, such as the Kathy's blood in his van, highlighting that there was no evidence of quote the means and manner of the victim's demise and that Lloyd had no prior criminal history. Lloyd's appeal was unsuccessful, his sentence was upheld and he'll be eligible for parole in 2025 at the age of 75.
Speaker 2So how much time has he served total so far?
Speaker 1So he served when he was arrested in 2015. He has, at this point, served about nine years. Next year he could be up for parole. He could be up for parole next year Doesn't mean he gets it Right. And the way that the appeal was written or maybe it was the sentencing the judge was very cautious that you know, just because you're a model prisoner, this does not mean that you're going to get out after 10 years. And they also kind of hinted at unless there's information about where this body is and it leads to someone other than you, you're not getting out.
Speaker 1Don't want to put words in the judge's mouth, but that's certainly how it read to me. Kathy's friends and co-workers remember her, as they said, a fun-loving person, always with a smile on her face, easy to talk to. Kathy's mother confirms that she was, quote, the bright light of our family. That was Kathy, always smiling and laughing. Kathy's husband, john, who learned about her infidelity, you know, got it confirmed along with her disappearance said that she was just fantastic and a great mother. I was really impressed by his composure during all of this and he said that, quote, as long as he can breathe he will continue to try to find his wife's remains. And Kathy's son says that the hardest part is we never got to say goodbye. Our family has never been the same and unfortunately, kathy Heckle wasn't the only woman to disappear from the area in 1991. In fact, she was the third in a string of four missing persons cases that police investigated together and ultimately concluded were not related. Two of these cases are still unsolved and, considering the tremendous toll that this has on their families, it's worth at least briefly mentioning them now as well. So we can help. Well, so we can help in any way we can. And if you want to look into more about these two cases.
Speaker 1There are plenty of resources in the show notes to get you started, as usual. The first one is 29-year-old Brenda Condon. She was the first woman to go missing in February 1991 during her shift at a Bellefonte bar. Clues from that night are curious but limited and the only witnesses are late-night bar patrons. They're not the most reliable of sources. Brenda had two children and split custody with their father, and police and Brenda's family think that her boyfriend, greg Palazzari, may know more about what happened to her. Greg was a cocaine dealer at the time and Brenda wanted to quit using before she disappeared. Brenda's still missing and she's wanted to quit using before she disappeared. Brenda's still missing and she's believed to be a victim of homicide.
Speaker 137-year-old Josette Brungart disappeared four months later in June 1991. In the early morning hours Josette and her husband Bradley Brungart were working a paper delivery route in Walker Township. Bradley says that Josette exited their car during an argument. He kept driving, giving her time to cool off, but couldn't find her afterward. Josette's body was discovered in the nearby woods six months later, but her cause of death couldn't be determined and there were no signs of foul play. Bradley was considered a suspect and investigated by police, but he maintains his innocence and has never been charged.
Speaker 1Then, of course, kathy Heckle disappears on July 15th, and then, two weeks later, 44-year-old Donna Breon became the area's fourth woman to go missing. Donna, who was known to struggle with depression, was seen walking away from her home and then couldn't be reached. Remember 1991, house phone work numbers, no cell phones. She was accounted for within a week, though, confirming that she had simply gone out to clear her head. It's the community's response to Donna's situation, though, that reveals their concern about this pattern of missing. Local women and police assured the public that there was no evidentiary links between the cases, and they're still investigating what happened to Brenda and Josette.
Speaker 1Now, if you have any information that may help advance these investigations, including Kathy Heckle we still don't know where her body is and what exactly happened to her Please think of the family left behind and submit your tip to Pennsylvania Crime Stoppers, either online link is in our show notes or by calling 1-800-4PA-TIPS. All right, wow, and that is the case of Kathy Heckle. I really wish that we had it solved, but it's not solved right, because we really still don't know what happened.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's incomplete justice.
Speaker 1Yes, that's a good word for it.
Speaker 2So if you want to learn more about today's case, head over to our website, criminaldiscoursepodcastcom. There you will find detailed show notes and all the resources Wendy used to bring you today's episode, and also there's additional resources for the other missing women, and we invite you to join the discourse. Let us know your thoughts on today's case, or any other case, through our website contact page or by messaging us on social media. Reach out anytime, tell us about yourself or suggest a new case to cover, and if you've enjoyed today's episode, then don't forget to subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to us on. Leave us a five star review, tell a friend so they can join the discourse too, or share our episode with your friend. And, as always, if you see something, know something, say something, you might have that missing piece of the puzzle it takes to solve a crime.
Speaker 2In this case, it was all of the co-workers, the friends, the friends riding in the van that noticed the stains in the carpet. It was the person Kathy was having an affair with Dennis Taylor yes, dennis Taylor even coming forward and saying what he knew and what she told him. So it was a lot of different people talking and sharing what they know to bring justice, but incomplete as it is, because we don't know where Kathy is, did the prosecution when they presented the evidence to the grand jury and then at trial, what did they see was his motive? Because to me this guy, lloyd, is a control freak. Like he was regimented, he was obsessive. I think you mentioned he was a compulsive runner. Not that compulsive runners are control freaks. Was it the fact that kathy was the one breaking up with him? He couldn't control that situation and it seems like he had such tight control over everything in his life, including his children, because what the state troopers said, that they just sat there control silence, total control.
Speaker 2Silence Total control over them.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would say exactly In the plainest terms she was breaking up with him. But I think you're correct that it was the underlying factor of. It wasn't even just that he liked Kathy. There were some co-workers who came forward that said that he made advances on them as well. So I don't even think it was just that Kathy was this person he was madly in love with and the perfect object of his affection, but his obsession with the control and she's initiating it, and he wasn't ready and he had this all planned out. And they also said I'm glad that they brought third degree murder to the trial.
Speaker 2Yeah, made it an option?
Speaker 1Yes, because I do think it would have been hard to prove first degree. But the grand jury did talk about how you know the way that he was stalking her. He even stalked Dennis Taylor. The things that he was doing indicated this kind of building of ill will and pre planning that was going into it and it seemed like, for whatever reason, july 15th he must have said something how she responded. That was going to be the day, but he's calling about that pool liner before she disappears.
Speaker 1I think he was making plans and it just maybe July 15th wasn't going to be the day, but it became the day, and then he was reacting to it.
Speaker 2Well, especially if she threatened to go to his boss threatened to go to his wife. She is going to destroy this life that he's built.
Speaker 1Right, Because now the argument at work that day. Now you're making it a scene at the office instead of just going away.
Speaker 2Now it's coming into my work life and he made it a scene he lost control and in his mind I could see him saying the reason for that was because of her yes, Putting all of his anger on her.
Speaker 2So, interesting case. Oh, like Wendy said, if you have any tips, please reach out to Pennsylvania Crime Stoppers, either online at Pennsylvania Crime Stoppers or calling 1-800-4PA-TIPS. Before we go, remember we want you to stay safe out there, be kind to one another and we need to watch out for one another. So until next time, guys. Bye, thank you.