The Power of Being a Helper: MLB Manager Clint Hurdle on Legacy and Leadership

In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, host Doug Smith welcomes back Clint Hurdle for his third appearance. They discuss Clint's journey since leaving Pittsburgh, including his retirement, challenges during COVID-19, and his current role with the Colorado Rockies. Clint also shares his insights about retirement, the importance of authentic relationships, and the release of his new book, 'Hurdleisms: Wit and Wisdom from a Lifetime in Baseball.' They delve into lessons from Clint's father, parenting advice, and practical leadership tips. Listeners will find valuable takeaways on maintaining a positive outlook, handling failure, and the significance of being a helper in both personal and professional life.

00:00 Welcome Back, Clint Hurdle!
01:40 Life After Pittsburgh
04:54 Retirement Reflections
08:37 Introducing Hurdleisms
16:15 Dedication to Big Clint
19:08 Parenting Wisdom
24:35 The Power of Ice Cream
25:37 Hurdle-isms: Shower Well
28:24 Building Your Own Mount Rushmore
30:25 Embracing Failures: Friday Fails
35:29 Proving Yourself Right
39:13 Clint Hurdle's Legacy and Reflections
42:24 The Importance of Journaling
45:42 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Order Clint's new book, "Hurdle-isms: Wit and Wisdom from a Lifetime in Baseball" out now: https://a.co/d/f7SX6av

The L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Andocia Marketing Solutions. Andocia exists to bring leaders' visions to life. Visit https://andocia.com to learn more.

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Transcript

Doug Smith 0:00

Hey leader, and welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith, and I am your host, and we recorded this episode live from our Burgo Realty Studios. In this week's episode of the podcast, you'll hear my conversation with Clint Hurdle, who is the former manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates. This is Clint's third time on the podcast. He's one of my favorite guests of all time. If you've never heard Clint, get ready. If you've heard him before, get ready. Because as you know, every time the man speaks, wisdom comes out of his mouth. And in this conversation, you're going to hear Clint talk about his new book, which is called Hurdalisms. And I just want to encourage you, it's a fantastic book. It is a quick read, but it is a must-read as well. I'd really encourage you to grab a copy for yourself and for your team. You'll absolutely love this book. We also talk about his best advice for parents when it comes to youth sports, his journaling habits, and so much more. You're going to love this conversation, so let's dive right in. Here's my conversation with Clinton Hurdle. Clint Hurdle, welcome back to the L3 Leadership Podcast. This is your third time. And uh I was actually on a podcast maybe a month ago, uh, and fellow podcasters, and they said, Hey, if you had to pick a favorite interview out of all the ones you've done, what would you pick? And you know, in some ways that's like asking me who my favorite child is. Uh, but when I really reflect on it, like you were number one. And I'm not just saying that because I'm interviewing you. Uh you were one of the first what I would say, quote unquote, big interviews I had. I was super nervous asking you. I still remember walking into PNC Park. I was shaking. Uh, but man, you you let me let my guard down within the first minute. And I'm just so grateful that you gave me that time. And I still listen to that interview probably once or twice a year. So uh just thank you for who you are, and it's been an honor to know you now and follow you and learn from you daily. So welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Greg, thanks. Doug, I said great. Don't be flattered that you said great. Well, we were talking about Greg before we went live, but Doug, thank you for that. But but most importantly, I just want to let you know that I also I still pull up your podcast. Um, don't sell yourself short. The people that you have on it are obviously impactful influencers. But I think one of the blessings I've I've gotten on the journey we had together is watching you grow as a leader. Um, from the first time we met, yeah, in my office to the second one was in your studio, and now this one. And I mean, we've got families, we are in different spots, but we're still serving Jesus, we're still trying to lead, we're still learning about leadership, we've still got servant hearts. So it's been fun watching you grow up right before my eyes as well.

Doug Smith 2:35

Oh, thanks. And last time we met, again, it was a few years ago now. You were actually leaving Pittsburgh, and so it's been a few years, and so uh not everyone listening to this is from Pittsburgh, but give us an update like what has Clint Hurdle been up to uh the last two or three years since you left the Berg.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

We left the Berg, actually made a decision to uh I turned down a couple opportunities to stay in baseball with different teams. Just Carla kept saying, I'll figure it out, the kids and I will figure it out, you know, we'll move here, we'll move there. And I basically said, you know what, honey, maybe it's time for me to figure some things out. So we went back to Florida. We uh had a home we were living in, we were still having another home built on the intercoastal, and we actually moved into our new home on the intercoastal on Emory Island on the 14th of February.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Prior to that, we we had left Pittsburgh and I retired in my mind November 15th, 2019. Well, little did I know that you know, four months later, the rest of the world would retire with me when COVID hit.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

We had just moved into our new home here one month and then COVID hit. So the only thing my wife has ever failed at in our lives together was homeschooling kids. And when this whole thing happened, I happened to be at home. I don't I don't think it was a coincidence. It was a godling. I had the opportunity to actually homeschool both our kids, Madison and Christian, for about three months through the end of school. It was good that I was home. For two years, I was retired. I had no skin in the game with anybody. I was taking phone calls and sharing some experience, strength, and hope here and there, but I really stepped back and stepped away. It was good for me, it was very therapeutic. I don't think anybody realizes the vacuum you can get caught up in until you remove yourself from it or you get removed from it. Um, and then lo and behold, you know, a couple years into retirement, I think I'm doing okay. Carla will tell you different. Um I got a call from the Rockies, and they asked me if I'd consider coming back. And I said it depends on the role and the commitment level, and they said, Well, we'll take what we can get. And two weeks a month, I said I'd love to work in player development. They said, we'll take you in player development. I said, I'd love to mentor young coaches and managers. They said, that's just what we'd like you to do. So since uh 22, this walking in will be my fourth year back as a special assistant to our general manager, and 80% of my time is spent in player development with the young players and pitchers and the young managers and coaches. And the other, well, 10% is probably with the scouts. Spent a lot of time with the scouts. They're isolated, they're on their own, trying to help them find some balance and some continuity and some cohesion. And then maybe 10% is still going to see the club at home or on the road and just giving maybe an unbiased lens view. Somebody's not watching them every day, some feedback. So, but it's two weeks a month, and it's been really, really good.

Doug Smith 5:48

That's awesome. Um, wasn't planning to go there, but you mentioned you kind of retired for two years. Um, I am curious, you know, for people listening to this who maybe are getting towards that age where they're thinking about retirement, not really sure what they'll do, or maybe someone was recently retired. What did you learn in that two-year period about, like you said, sometimes you don't realize the vacuum you're in? Uh, I know some people just retire and they think they'll just golf forever and it'll be paradise. Yeah, what what what advice do you have there for potential retirees?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Well, what I will share with them is what I've learned. And through this last period, where I actually was away for two years, other times I've been fired. But I think in each one of those situations, when you walk away from a job or you're let go and you leave a job, you truly do find out what type of relationships you built. Were they transactional or were they transformational while you were there? And in all the three cases, I was let go by the Mets, I was let go by the Rockies, I was let go by the Pirates, there was a certain number of people that I thought I had developed a relationship with, a transformational relationship. It was transactional. I never heard from them again. Their relationship was with the manager, and I was no longer the manager. Now there's been people at all three of those stops that have stayed in my life that have maintained, you know, we've maintained a friendship and we've maintained a bond. But don't be hurt by it. Just know that, okay, obviously your awareness may not have been as good as you thought it was, but never lose sight of the fact that you're never gonna bat a thousand with the people that you work with. You're gonna think they all love you because of you. Some people are just gonna match up with the title. And that's okay because at the end of the day, you really find out who your core group is and who your core posse is on the people that care about Doug or care about Clint, not Doug's title, not Clint's title. That'd be the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice I would I would ask is you know what, men like to measure things. In this case, I did need to check in on my wife to see how I was showing up because I had no real responsibilities. You know, I tapped out every month for two weeks. Entire time Carla's ever known me. My kids, they all knew dad. There was home dad, there was dad that was on the road. Now I get thrown in a fireport every day for a long period of time. And that can be good, that can be bad, that can be hard, that can be easy. So I think it was important over a period of time, every couple weeks, say, how am I doing? Give me a couple things. We talked about this before. Give me a couple things you think I'm doing well, give me a couple things you think I'm not doing well, and maybe a couple things I can improve upon.

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Doug Smith 9:31

So good. Well, hey, also in your, I don't want to say your free time, but your most recent project, which was what I want to focus on today, is you wrote a book. Hold it right here. Hurdalisms, Wit and Wisdom from a Lifetime in Baseball. Give us like why did you write this book? How did this book come to being, and then we'll dive into some of the content there?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Well, the book, it happened, it was a godwink. I I felt I never felt compelled to write a book while I was wearing a uniform while I was working. I thought it'd be a distraction. And from the time we went to the series in Colorado, went to a series in Texas, the three big seasons we had in Pittsburgh, I probably had 20 people reach me and ask if I'd like to write a book, co-author a book, which I thought was brilliant because it meant I wouldn't have to do any of the hard work. These are people that had written books, they had had successful books. So that appealed to me. Um, once I took the uniform off, I had a guy that came up with a really good idea. Dave Burchette was a TV producer for the Rangers for 40 years. He said, Have you reconsidered co-authoring a book? And I said, Yes. We worked on a book for over two years. We put together stories, lessons learned, his business, my business, family, relationship, our faith. We thought we had something real sweet. We started walking it to publishers and we got turned down 15, 20 times.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

And it went from initially like, eh, you know, okay, they don't get it. Somebody will love our book. Don't worry about it. Nobody loved our book. We started hearing more and more of, hey, two old white guys sharing stories. It's a small demographic. You're only going to reach so many people. I don't care how brilliant. I mean, we didn't realize that most of the producers we were probably talking to or were publishers were probably, you know, 30-something, 40-something. They weren't 65 years old. So it did make sense. It just hurt our feelings. And we went from being sad to mad. And then they finally said, Hey, would you do me a favor? Would you reach out to some of your friends that have written books that you know? John Gordon, good friend, 17 bestsellers. Spoken Pittsburgh to my club, spoke in Colorado to the club. I've known John for 15 years. I didn't want to play that card. But I said, okay, Dave, you've asked. I will. John said the same thing, but much nicer. He said, Clint, there's some really good content in here. I think there is a book in here, but timing of this kind of book, it just doesn't, I don't think it works right now. But he looked at me matter of fact and goes, How come you haven't written a book? I gave him 12 reasons why I wasn't going to write a book. And then when I finished, he goes, So you're afraid? I said, No, I'm not afraid. I gave him 12 reasons why I wasn't afraid. When I was finished with that, he goes, So you're you're really afraid.

Doug Smith 12:26

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

And I go, okay, so what's the deal? He goes, Clint, I've known you for 15 years. He said, I've been writing down hurdles for 15 years. I go, you've been writing down what? He goes, Hurdalisms, things you say, they're they're sentences, they're short, then they're not long, but they unpack so well. And they usually have a life lesson, or you share a personal lesson with them, or you know, uh an athletic lesson book. He goes, You need to write a book and call it hurdles. So John birthed the idea. And then John got me in front of Wiley Publishing, who have done all but one of his books, The Energy Bus. Somebody else did that. And he goes, You gotta try out. They might not take you. I'm not gonna be involved in this. And I said, Well, yeah, nobody's taking me, so at least I'm polished on the interview part. I've done 20 of them. Wiley walked me through their thoughts, baseball season, shape it, but it needed to be a lifebook to reach male, female, different demographics with a baseball setting that kind of put it in a bow. And that's basically what we did. And we had about 50 hurdles. I reached out to some people over the course of my lifetime that I shared more than others, and we got all these hurdles down and we whittled it down to 25, and then we put it in the seasons of a baseball season, and then we added that life lesson or that professional lesson, a personal or professional, with each one. It was organic, it wasn't meant to happen that way. That's the way it's happened, though, and it has been an incredible growth experience, and it's been very therapeutic.

Doug Smith 14:05

Yeah. I am curious just now that you're on the other end, it was fun watching you and Carla do your opening, the first box open uh on Instagram. And for those listening, if you're not following Clint on Hurdle and he's everywhere, follow him. You're gonna get great wisdom daily. But watching you unpack that, like what are the lessons learned from even writing the book, you know, on the other side of your fear?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

You know, I tried to downplay it because that's what you do, you know, that's the way I'm grown up. But there was a part of me that I wrote a book, I want to have the book in my hand.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

And I actually had a good friend who was an author, Dave Jouss's wife, who was my bench coach in Pittsburgh for a couple years, and on my coaching staff, Billy Jouss had written some books. She goes, After you open it and you hold it, you gotta smell it. And I thought, oh my God, that's yeah, that's like the coolest thing. So to have Carla there with me, and I think she is she even shares in the post that I was excited. I wanted to see the book, I wanted to hold the book. I knew what I put into the book, I knew the time spent on the book, and then you know, I wasn't gonna say, oh my gosh, that's just a little book. I actually was proud of the design because one of the books that flipped my life in a positive way was reading Tuesdays with Maury by Mitch Alb back in the day. And it was the first small book that I ever read that I could hold in my hand. So when we sat down with Wiley, we talked about book size and shape. And I go, I'm really comfortable with a small book. I don't need an encyclopedia. I don't think many people want an encyclopedia. I don't think they want something that they've got to carry around in a separate luggage. This book you can throw in your bag, you can almost fit in your back pocket. 144 pages, 20,000 words. But I poured my life into it in the sequences of once I became pretty much professional. And the feedback, the best feedback I've gotten, Doug, has been you write like you talk.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And I think, okay, that's cool. That's really good. That's something to hold on to.

Doug Smith 16:14

So I have a physical copy of the book, but I'm curious to did you do or are you going to do an audio book?

SPEAKER_01 16:19

There is going to be an audio book. I'm not going to do the audio.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I researched this, I talked to people. I actually talked to a really well-known person who did his own book and he quit halfway through because of the demands. And it's not, you know, there's professional people that do these. I just feel that, you know what, I've put my time into it. And the book company even said, Clint, once people get the audiobook, once they know it's not you, they just listen to your story. And most people will hear your voice, and whose ever voice is speaking anyway. That's okay. But there will be an audio coming out in April that's Kim Kindle form now. Audio in April as well, and obviously the hard copies out.

Doug Smith 16:59

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, as I read it, I definitely hear your voice, which is awesome. Uh, I want to dive into the book. We're obviously not going to share all 25 hurdles, but I want to wet people's appetite. But what stood out to me initially was just the dedication. So you dedicated the book to Big Clint, your father. And um, I don't believe in any of our interviews we've talked about this, but I'm curious, you know, what impact has your father had on your life, and so much so that you dedicated this book to him.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

You know, as I've been away, I've had more time to spend with my dad. Um, even when my dad and mom would come in town for a 10-game series, you know, you think, oh, they're with you 10 days. I'd leave for the park at 11:30 or 12. Even if I took my dad, there's times we're separated. I've had more time with my father in the last five years than I had since I left the house. And it's been it's been wonderful just to be around him again and watch him navigate life at the age of 91 now. And he's got two grown daughters, he's got grandkids, he's got a loving wife that's 89 years old. They've been together forever. And we still go to sporting events. We actually have done some things that we never done before just to be together, father-son trips. And I started playing at back, and something I had said in 2013 at the Baseball Writers of America Banquet was manager of the year. I said, at that time, I said, X amount of years ago, my dad asked me to play catch. And it changed the trajectory of my life. And now, 62 years ago, my dad first looked down at me and said, Hey, you want to go up back and play catch? And I said, catch what? And he said, Hey, go catch a baseball. I got a couple, he brought a bag, I got a couple gloves, and I got a ball. It's something that I love to do. I thought maybe you might like to try it. I fell in love with it. I'm still in love with it. My dad has been with me through everything that's happened in my life. He's given me wisdom, he's given me love, he's given me tough love. One of the things I share in the book is the only thing fair in life is a ball hit between first and third. That was a tough walk around the block with my dad after two divorces and me whining about my role in life, my luck in life, my lack of luck in life. And my dad just told me life's not fair. Um, you need to shut up and you need to get up and get moving. Because what's going to define you, and like anybody else in life, is how do you do the heart? Easy people, it's easy to do, easy. It's easy to do everything when it works out, when it falls together. But what separates people is doing the hard. Do you whine? Do you complain? Are you anxious? Do you stay up at night? Do you question? Or do you have faith? Do you believe? Do you trust? Do you trust your work and trust your reps? So that impact, whenever I've needed something special, more often than not, it's come from my father.

Doug Smith 19:50

Wow. You're blessed. I mean, I know you've you've seen the stats of how many people are fatherless in our nation, and even those who have fathers, how hard, how many of them have fathers that aren't great? I'll just put it for lack of better words. Uh you're a dad, and you know, I just I am I am now the dad of five children, which is crazy. Just had my fifth. Uh what I'll just leave this open-ended. You know, whether through what you learned from your dad or you're in the middle of your parenting journey, what advice do you have for parents out there on being a good dad?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Well, the advice, and again, it goes with the book. Most of the lessons I've learned, I learned the hard way. My parents were perfect examples of what to do. They've been married, they're closing on 60 years of marriage. Um, I've got two sisters. My youngest sister was the shining light of our family. I mean, my sister came to Jesus probably around 12 or 13, has walked with Jesus ever since, raised three kids with her husband. Just a fantastic story. I mean, her Christian walk has been a Christian walk. My Christian walk has been a Christian obstacle course. Self-imposed. And my sister Bobby's had some challenges along the way, but she's done beautifully. So my folks raised kids, they provided, they gave us what we need, needed, not what we wanted. Uh, they treated us fairly but differently. Uh, there was still corporal punishment in our house. I can remember that. I mean, today when you could get a spanking. Um, but so many organic lessons learned, and one I things I still use to this day. My mom, the day school was out for the summer, she would take us in the utility room, put us up against a wall, put a ruler above our head, and mark a line. And she'd take us back there the day before we went back to school and showed us how much we grew physically. And then she would ask, You're going into another grade, you're moving up. How much have you grown personally?

unknown 21:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

And that would be the test in front of you. Parents were awesome, but but as far as being a parent, help out wherever you can with your spouse. I wasn't around half the time, and you know, I couldn't be. I was. Earning money, I was working, and I my job made me travel. But there was probably times when I wasn't home where I wasn't as good as I could have been. And plugging back again, helping out, thy will be done. Love your kids like Jesus loves us. And there's times when I get caught up in that and get sideways. But we have Maddie, you know, born with a birth defect. She's 22, but Maddie's taught us lessons. My son, Christian, retired from baseball at the age of four. That was an incredible lesson for me. My oldest daughter, Ashley, has been amazing on what she's doing with her life. Now, but she had challenges similar to mine in some areas. But love them and know that you're proud of them and that you're there for them. You know, even if the behavior isn't right, you still love the person. Maybe they made a misstep, or maybe they, I mean, man, it's just too short. I've seen too many hard things happen with relationships when people haven't really given the relationship the meaning that it needed to have, and then all of a sudden that person's unplugged or taken away or taken away forever. So it's basically be where your feet are and take care of the day that you have with them. That day, not yesterday, not tomorrow. Love them today, like this is the only day you got.

Doug Smith 23:20

Yeah, and last question on parenting. Uh so yeah, five kids, most one's eight and a half. So now we're just starting on the the sports end, right? Your son retired at four. Uh we're at soccer, gymnastics, and and already, you know, at eight years old. It's a crazy environment. And seeing parents how competitive they are. What advice do you have for parents? You're around athletes that make it to the pros all the time. What advice do you have for us as far as like, do we go all in on youth sports? Yeah, I'll just leave it open-ended because you probably know exactly what you want to share.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Well, I think you're they're gonna tell you what they like and what they don't like. And I think there can become a time when you're not sure if they love what they're doing, but they're doing it because everybody else is doing it. And then just share with them. Here's what I've shared with Christian, here's what I share with Maddie, here's what I share with Ashley. I want you to find something you can fall in love with that makes your tail wag. I don't care what it is. With Christian, the day he came to me and told me he was out on baseball at the age of four, there's a part of me that hurt. It hurts. But at the end of the day, I'm talking to Carla, she goes, he doesn't love it. Like you love it. We got to help him find something that he loves. We have over time. Um, so help them find something they love. And Carla was great with Christian. I mean, you're gonna go to school, you gotta pick a couple things, whether it's a you know drama club or whatever, or in a sport, some kind of sport, some kind of team concept. And we came up with crew for him once he got into high school. He fell in love with the crew. But tennis, he tried, karate, he tried. My son picked three sports that neutered me as a parent, Doug, because I couldn't overcoach my kid because I didn't know enough about the sport. And I couldn't second guess the coach, which is the national pastime, because I didn't know enough about the sport. And that was beautiful. Now, the other the other piece of advice that this is where there's a lot of failure, there can be. I never talked with Christian about the performance in the car on the way home. Uh, one thing as soon as he got in the car, I just said, son, I want to say this. I loved watching you compete today. Wow, that was a blast, and that's it. If he wanted to say, yeah, you know, this happened or that happened, I'd let him take the floor. And sometime if I knew the performance wasn't what he expected, he wasn't going to talk about it. But we did find a way to do something on the ride home. Not everybody can do this, but you know what? I've never seen somebody eat ice cream and be ugly, be less than, be angry. Ice cream brings out the best of anybody, even after a poor performance. Um, so we would always stop for a treat. Some kind of ice cream, some kind of sorbet. Sometimes then after that, he would talk about the performance. But I've been in cars and I've been with parents where the ride home is the worst thing that happens to the kid the entire day. Especially after a poor performance. The kid knows he didn't do well, and then he's gonna hear about it from the parent the whole way home on top of that. That just makes for a rough ride.

Doug Smith 26:29

Wow. That's so powerful. Thanks for sharing that. I want to dive into some of the hurdles. Uh and I'll just name one, and I just want to hear you go off on it. So the first one, I just thought it would be fun to share because no one knows where this is going to lead. Shower well.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

There was a friend of mine I grew up with playing baseball. His name was Dan Quisenberry. If you Google him up, he was a sidearm reliever. Taculvey actually taught him how to throw lower than low three-quarters. He was a high three-quarter guy when we played together in Waterloo, Iowa. He was horrible. I was horrible. The first half of the season, we both were terrible. We would get, it just seemed like we would always end up in a shower together, kind of the last ones of the night, looking at each other like another crappy day, yeah, another crappy day. And then finally, Quiz looked at me and goes, Well, you know what? Let's just get all the crap off of us and let's, you know, it'll be better tomorrow. And I go, Yeah, let's just wash it all off. Let's just shower well and then go home. Over the course of time, showering well took on a new meeting. Kelly McGregor, our team president in Colorado and I talked about it, but basically what it meant for me, and I would share with coaches and team and team and players the day is going to bring a lot. The day is going to bring happy, sad, good, bad, um, a confrontation, a complication, a conversation. It could be a wonderful day. When you get ready to leave, shower well and get everything that they put on you off of you, because you're going to be going somewhere next. Maybe you don't have a home you're going to, maybe it's an apartment you're by yourself. But prepare yourself to not drag what happened today home with you. Now, if you've got a wife or you've got a girlfriend, you got kids, get it all off. Go and see them. Be where your feet are. Go be present with them. And one of the things I learned in Pittsburgh those first two years, I could not have ever been happier that we had two dogs. Because the second half of both those seasons, they were hard. We were in good spots at the All-Star break. We got beat up the second half. But every time I would go home, 11:30, 12 o'clock at night, we got beat 12 to 2, and I made a couple stupid decisions again with the pitching staff for the bullpen. Didn't work out well. As soon as that door opened, those dogs loved on me like nobody's business. They could not have been happier to see me come back home. You don't know how many nights those two dogs got me through the night and just to show up for the next day. We need people in our life like that that just love us unconditionally. That once we get out of the uniform, once we get out of the office, once we get out of the mission, you go home, you need to be dad. You need to be the husband. You don't need to be the director. You don't need to be the COO. You don't need to be the baseball manager.

Doug Smith 29:18

Yeah. The second one, we um we talked a little about this in our first one, but I think the concept is so powerful. Build your own Mount Rushmore.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I still to this day have a handful of people in my life that we meet a couple times a month. We usually chop up a topic and then we'll share a two up, two down. You and I have talked about two ups, two downs, three ups, three downs. Two things that have happened, two things that went well and two things that went horribly bad. It's usually two ups and two downs. And it's amazing, still in my Mount Rushmore, because the people have changed over the past 15 years. Some have passed, some have don't have time for whatever reason. And I've tried to keep it fresh where I've got a 30-something person, I've got a 40-something person, I've got a 50-something person, I got somebody my own age, and I've got Carla always involved in that process that you just do a little life with as far as play the videotape. You know, in the last two weeks, what are a couple things that really made you happy? And you share that. And it's called mudita, because now we start sharing joy with one another. And it perks everybody up. And then when you share the hard, it kind of brings everybody to a good place because yeah, that happened to me too. Oh my gosh, maybe I can. I didn't do that. I tried something else. But by sharing ups and downs, we learned about each other. We learn about what's important to each other, and then we realize that you know what, we're all in different businesses, but there's so much common fabric because we're working with people.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

It's all relational. And that part of it, the Mount Rushmore is having those people that you can call 24-7 and say, hey, I just got this call. This broke me up, or hey, I just messed this up. You know, I dubbed it. Man, I just screwed up. Can you at least help me, at least listen to me? And then sometimes it's just sharing a joy because it's pretty much fun every once in a while to pick up a phone and just say, hey, you won't believe what happened. It's something really cool.

Doug Smith 31:19

So powerful. And Clinton, you talked about sharing your downs. One thing I loved when you really hopped on social, you started a series on Fridays that I love on video called Friday Fails. And and man, I've been inspired. I started doing Friday Fails. I hope this catches on. You know, I've had so many people say to me, like, you basically just share your highlight reel. Like, when are you going to be real and authentic? And I feel like no one embraces authenticity more than you do. Why have you even gone public with sharing your failures? And why do you think that's provided so much credibility to you?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Well, we all talk about leadership. You know, we don't talk about followership as much as we talk about leadership, but there's people I follow. There's people you follow. And the one thing that I'm attracted to in posting up and following somebody is if they're vulnerable, if they're authentic. Because, you know, there's so many, so much, so many more people can relate to the hard time, the flat tire, the spilled my coffee early morning on the way into work than holding a Super Bowl trophy. I'm not downplaying holding a trophy. I'm just saying you want to reach masses. You talk about hard, you talk about failure, you talk about something I gooped up or something I walked into, or I was short with my kid, I cut off my wife, I yelled at somebody in traffic. Who doesn't? Doesn't make it right, but we can have some connection. And the Friday failed thing was actually brought up by a Yenzer, Alex Ritz, who's a family member. She's now Matt, she's our best friend, but she's also becoming Maddie's caregiver. Um I was in a I had a couple rough weeks at home here with the four women and two dogs, and you understand that Christian's gone. And you know, she goes, You gotta think about doing a Friday fail. And I went, What? She goes, think about it. Because people see you and they you know, they can think, well, he's oh, it's golden. He's got no worries. Well, then you start sharing those fails. You've shared. I love the first time I saw you go, God bless you, brother. Good for you. People relate to authenticity, they relate to vulnerability. Brene Brown, the author, I've read every one of her books. I tried to, that's somebody I'd love to meet and sit down on because she cuts me up like a sushi chef when I start reading her book. Um is sharp, it goes in and penetrates, but because she's experienced it, she's gone through it. You know, it's hard to tell somebody, well, I know what you feel when you don't know what I felt and you don't know what I'm going through. And I think the Friday fails is the reason why. Because I've had so many, when I do one of those people, I go, Oh my gosh, that happened to me last week, or thank you, because it hasn't happened yet. It's going to happen, it just hasn't happened yet.

Doug Smith 34:02

Yeah. And not only the relatability, again, in my case, uh, you know, I think you're inspiring other leaders to be authentic and real and share their failures, and not be afraid of that. And so thank you for that. Uh, another one of the hurdles that I love that I hadn't heard you really talk about before, but there's no guarantee that you're gonna sip lemonade by the pool.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

That one really came from beginning in Colorado. I mean, we we did a rebuild. In 02 when the manager Buddy Bell was fired, and I was named interim manager. We weren't very good. We had some older players, some big contracts. Organization was upside down in debt, and we went through a process where we flushed debt, we moved players, we brought in young kids, and we just sold out to rebuilding. 03, 04, 05 were hard. Hard. Um, and it's hard to get mad at your team when you're getting beat sometimes when you're just not good enough. At the end of the day, you're just not good enough. And by being honest with that and sharing, we're rebuilding. We're gonna build something significant. Our job is to lay the foundation. Some of you may be here when the house gets built, and some of you may be here when the pool's put in, and some of you may be there to sip lemonade by the side of it. I said, my job is the foreman, my job here is to build the house. There's no guarantee I'm gonna be around to sip lemonade by the pool at the end of the day. We got there in 07. We went to a World Series, the whole town exploded, erupted, joy for so many people in so many different places. So that's the thought. And then Pittsburgh, we did the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

On a different timeline, but we did the same thing. You don't know you're gonna get there, but what an experience when so many different people, so many different generations of people can have that joy and and embrace the hard work. And who's worked harder than the fans of the Pittsburgh Pirates and showing up and posting up and rooting and hoping? And then we had a nice run there for a short period of time, and and then it seems like it's gone hard again, real hard.

Doug Smith 36:12

Yep. Yeah, you're welcome back anytime, at least according to me. I'd love to have you back in our city. Uh, another one, I am curious to go a little deep on this one, uh, just because of something I've been processing through a book I read. One of your journalisms is it's not about proving others wrong, it's about proving yourself right. I want to hear you talk about that, and then I want to just challenge it for a second and ask a question.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, sure. Um there's times in my career where I've been released. I've been traded. I've been cut, I've been fired. Um I actually have a friend that does a podcast in Colorado, Susie Warge. It's called Cut, Fired, Traded. I mean, it really is. I was a perfect guy to have on early on because all of it happened. But I can remember sometimes my mentality was well, I'll show them. You know, and truthfully, I wasn't in a position to show anybody because I didn't have a platform. You know, I had to regroup, I had to rekindle, I had to reskill or whatever it was. And it became almost anxious that I need to show them they were wrong. And you know what? Sometimes decisions are made that as much as you don't like it, they really didn't have as much to do with you as they did somebody else. Josh Harrison, before the 2013 season, we moved up and down five times that year. You know what it was like five times for Josh Harrison to pack a bag and walk out of the clubhouse? And do you think I asked him later, is it was it about proving us wrong or about proving you right? He goes, I just knew I was gonna play. You guys didn't figure it out, it was gonna be somewhere else. But I was gonna keep showing up and doing what you told me I needed to do, and I figured things would work out. So I flipped my switch late in life as a player, and then I use it in coaching and managing all the time, whether I got fired or I didn't have the role that I thought maybe I should have had. Prove yourself right. What do you believe in? The job you've been given, do that job. Show up every day, do that job of the best of your ability. Don't worry about a job you don't have. Don't worry about somebody taking away the job. Your focus needs to be on the job you have and the skills that you have, you've been blessed with. What are you doing to make those skills better? What are you doing to make your players better? What are you doing to make people around you better? Focus on that. So it wasn't about proving others wrong, about proving yourself right by your daily approach, your daily interaction, your daily communication, and then in the night, shower well, go home, be where your feet are, and then show up with a fresh face for the next day.

Doug Smith 38:42

Yeah, I was alluding to I read a book by Patrick Bett David called Choose Your Enemies Wisely. Never thought about this concept before. And he pushes people, he has a podcast, he pushes people on this a lot. Like, are there people that that drove you that were either competing against you or maybe they betrayed you? And sometimes that chip on the shoulder can actually elevate your performance. I'm curious, do you agree with that philosophy? And and if you're willing to share it, have you had enemies in your life that have kind of taken you to that next level?

SPEAKER_01 39:09

I I do agree with the philosophy because people are wired different. And there are people, I have friends that I absolutely, their edge, my edge comes from the ability to compete and beat the other team on the field. Um and I did have a little bit of an edge at times to be the best player on the field. Once you get in the big leagues, that's hard. But there are guys that have that edge to be the best player on the field every night.

Doug Smith 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

It didn't work for me.

Doug Smith 39:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

I can see how it can work for other people, but I've never really been fueled by somebody. It's too much focus away from what I should be doing when my focus is on the person that made me angry about the decision they made, or in a sense of competition. That just didn't work for me. So I went a different route, but again, I'd be the first one to say if that works for you, use it.

Doug Smith 40:04

Yeah, I love that mindset. So again, the book is Hurdlesms. If you're watching this, Wit and Wisdom from a Lifetime in Baseball. Uh Clint, as we start to wrap up our time, you've spent a lifetime in baseball, and uh you certainly have made a huge impact in the baseball world. And what's beautiful is you've made a much bigger impact even beyond the baseball world uh through your leadership. You know, at the end of the day, at the end of your life, when you look back at your career and the impact that Clint Hurdle made on baseball, what do you hope your legacy in baseball is?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Very simply, I hope they can say he cared. He was a helper. You've heard helper before in the city of Pittsburgh.

unknown 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

You know, Mr. Rogers, when bad things happen, who do you look for?

unknown 40:44

Helper.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Who look for a helper?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

And I heard it there the first time, and I thought, how sweet is that? Because think about when anything's happened in your life, chaos, confusion. Uh somebody gets up and moves in a direction. And then people will get up after that person and follow them, right? Or not. Or not. And you don't hear the term there goes a flock of leaders. You know, I think the leadership component is so much more about action than it is about word. And I've had the ability to talk, and my players will tell you something, I talk too much, and I tried actually there was times in years I would say I need to I need to say more by talking less. And using my ears better, using my eyes better. And I just want to be a helper, I want to be of service. You know, one of the herdlums is I'm honored to serve and I'm humbled to help. But uh that's it. It's God's not going to ask me, hey, how many games did you win as a manager? You know, I'm gonna say, I don't know, you you you blessed me with 2,600 games as a manager. Thank you. And hopefully there's some guys up here I can see running around at some point that we walk to your door, you know, that we led to Christ by the chair that you gave me. That chair came from him. I know other people, Neil Huntington and Bob Nutting and Frank Cooley made the decision. But truthfully, at the end of the day, in my mind, God wanted me in Pittsburgh for a reason. God wanted me in Colorado for a reason. God wanted me home for a reason. So I want to be a helper and I want to be somebody that can say, you know what, he really cared.

Doug Smith 42:30

Yeah. I forget if it was in our interview or maybe I heard you speak somewhere, but I loved how you always say, you know, when you were the manager of any team, you said, if God wants me in that seat, there's not a person on the planet that can stop me from being in it. And if God doesn't want me in that seat, there's not a person that can stop that from happening either. And uh I think I would speak on behalf of all Pittsburgh people uh that we're very grateful that God put you in that seat in Pittsburgh for the years you were here.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, my family, we love the bird. We love people. There's so many people we're still close to. We're gonna find our way back a few times this year, and hopefully I'll get to see a lot more people. Shake some hands and throw out some hugs for those that like to be hugged.

Doug Smith 43:06

Yep. And hey, as long as we're aware, yeah, that's hilarious. Uh as soon as we're aware of it, we'll be sharing all that details as well. It will include links to Clint's book in the show notes. Clint, last question, and I'll just leave it open-ended then. I didn't get to ask you, but I wanted to. You mentioned, I think you've been journaling for I think 15 or 30 years, I forget the exact number of years. I I'm a huge journaler, I've been journaling for 20 plus years, so I'm always fascinated by people's process. Like, what does journaling look like in your life, and what do you do with your journals when you're done with them?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

I journaling has been important to me. I'm a note taker. That's how I got through school. That was my mode of study. Writing helps me retain. You know, there's people that can read and hold on. I wasn't that person. I needed to write. So even in school, going through high school, yes, I highlighted, yes, I underlined, but I also wrote and I kept you know, lab books, whatever it was. As I went into minor leagues, I journaled on pitchers that I faced. And then when I'd read a book, I usually at the end of each chapter, I would cut have a couple takeaways. So I've been journaling close to 40 years religiously. It was here and there, I'm beginning, but and I've got them piled up, and I've had one, I've had one big journal, usually every year I managed. And when I started the process of writing this book, I actually got my journals out and went back to 02 in Colorado, 07 in Colorado, the year I got fired in Colorado, the year in Texas, time in Pittsburgh. I have a bunch of them lined up on the other side of this office over here that they're at my beck and call. And I still go through them. And one of the things I do right now is when I get on X in the morning and I share those thoughts from AMI or it's a happy hump day, whatever it is, it's me walking through a journal, and it could be 2012. It could be 2007 on that lesson that day, and I'm just sharing something that impacted me. And it's not just, you know, I had a coach that would highlight things, and I finally said, Why don't you just buy the book with yellow pages? Because you highlight everything in the book. Um but I would try and keep it to bullet points, and that's what I've always tried to do, and keep it to bullet points. But today, I get a journal every year from a good friend of mine. If you don't follow this guy, this is a guy you should follow. His name's Buzz William. He's the men's basketball coach for Texas AM University. He does podcasts, he's got stuff, he's got blogs. This guy is fantastic. We met when I was managing the Rockies in the early 2000s. He was the head coach at Marquette.

SPEAKER_04 45:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Then he went to Virginia Tech. But he sends me a journal every year that just the front up says get better. And then he writes an he writes an inscription on the inside. But I have one big journal I work on every year, and then I usually have a couple other books that go with it.

Doug Smith 45:59

That's amazing. Anything else you want to share with us today, Clint? Appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Well, I know that I'm better journaling in the morning than I am in the afternoon, but I still do it in the afternoon. And at night, I don't journal too much at night. That's my sit-down time. It's my unwind time. Um it's my time to kind of reflect and just really be the best person I can be in the house and do whatever needs to be done and just be present with uh with my kids and with my wife. Um the one thing I I probably would be compelled to share on the way out is as I've gotten older, I'm going to more funerals now than I'm going to weddings. Um you've heard the story on the dash, right? When you go to a cemetery, it's a very impactful story. But what I've started doing now is journaling thoughts on people that either get in the news that I know or have done something good, something bad, or have passed. And what's the first thought that comes to my mind? Because you know what? I've had some people that pass, man, that was a mean guy. He was mean. You know, I've had a good friend that just passed, didn't want a celebration of life, didn't have a lot of friends. I mean, it's sad and it's lonely. Don't be that guy. I mean, you don't have to be leading the band, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

You don't have to be leading the band. But even with Maddie, you know, I share with Maddie all the time. Maddie, if you want a friend, be a friend first. And that's basically times are hard right now. We just went through two hurricanes on this island. People got wiped out. People are still not back in their homes. Some people will never be back in their homes. And it was amazing how this community rose up, like most communities do, the California fires. You see what's going on now. It's service before self. A Rotary Club had it way before any of us. And I would just encourage us all. We don't know what that other person's walkthrough today. We don't know what their last week was like. We don't know about a mom and a dad. Be of service, be a friend, be a helper, be kind. That's it.

Doug Smith 48:20

Yeah. Well, thanks, Clint. And thanks again. I'm glad for John Gordon challenging you and getting in your face to get this book out here. Thanks for overcoming your fear. And uh, I hope you sell over a million copies and keep impacting lives. Thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Thank you so much, Doug. Much love to you, Doug, and your family.

Doug Smith 48:35

Can't wait to see you in May. See ya.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Bye-bye.

Doug Smith 48:37

Well, leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Clint. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. Again, you can find ways to connect with him and links to everything we discussed in the show notes. And again, please go out and buy a copy of Hurdalisms. You will absolutely love it. I also want to thank our sponsor, Indosha Marketing Solutions. They are the producers of this podcast. And if you are looking for help with your organization's marketing, I cannot recommend them enough. I've been working with them for years. You can check them out at endosha.com. That's a n-d-o-ci-a.com. And as always, I like to end every episode with a quote. And today I'll quote Clint Hurdle. It's actually a title of one of his chapters in the book, Hurdalisms. He said this, it says, celebrate others' success. When you celebrate others, you get to celebrate way more often. I love that. Well, that's gonna wrap up today's podcast. As always, remember, leader, don't quit. Keep leading. The world desperately needs your leadership. We'll talk to you next episode.