When Your Family Can't Compete with Standing Ovations with Ryan Leak

In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, Doug Smith and guest Ryan Leak discuss Ryan's journey as a New York Times bestselling author and speaker. 

Ryan shares his extensive experience of speaking at over 120 events annually and reaching millions through his work. They delve into the importance of stewardship over opportunism, balancing faith in God with personal hustle, and the need for character development and accountability among leaders.

The L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Andocia Marketing Solutions. Andocia exists to bring leaders’ visions to life. Visit https://andocia.com to learn more.

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Transcript

Doug Smith 0:00

Hey leader, and welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith, and I am your host, and we recorded this episode live from our Burgo Realty Studios. Well, leader, today I'm excited to share with you my conversation with Ryan Leek, who is a professional speaker and a New York Times bestselling author. He has a brand new book out called How to Work with Complicated People, which is incredible. And if you've never heard Ryan, you're about to be blown away. He is filled with wisdom. And in our conversation, you're going to hear him talk about an unforgettable lesson on family that he learned from Rick Warren, the preparation that it takes to get on the world's biggest stages, which he has spoken on, and how we can develop our character to ensure we get to our finish lines and so much more, including all about his new book, How to Work with Complicated People. So get ready, buckle up, and let's dive right in. Here's my conversation with Ryan Leek. Ryan Leek, welcome to the L3 Leadership Podcast. It's an honor, it's an honor to have you. And we were just talking. I thought you were, for some reason on Google, I thought you were 27 years old and you were influencing the world, making a huge impact. I'm like, wow, how did he do that by 27? But found out that's not true. You're 38, which is still equally as impressive. Uh, but yeah, for those who maybe have not been introduced, like you really are making a huge impact in this world. Can you just give people kind of a 30,000-foot view of who you are and what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Sure, sure. Yeah, my name is Ryan Leake, and I am a uh New York Times bestselling author and speaker. I get to do uh about 120 events every single year. I get to speak to over about a million people each year and get to inspire lots of people on social media as well. And uh, we wake up every single day looking for ways to add value to people. And so I pinch myself every day because I get the opportunity to do that on a daily basis.

Doug Smith 1:57

Yeah, and I'm sure there's tons of people listening to this and saying, like, okay, you said that kind of nonchalantly. Like, how how did that happen? Like, can you kind of walk us through briefly the journey? Because you don't just wake up one day, you know, speaking to millions of people every year.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, you know, it it is interesting how it happened and and how I would even go about it in today's day and age. But for me, I I started off in church and I was just a young adults director, and I would host our services on Sundays, and I would just think to myself, how can I add value to people's lives if I've been given a microphone for one minute, three minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes? In fact, uh, one guy asked me to speak at his conference in Atlanta, and he said, I'm gonna give you seven minutes, and I felt disrespected. I'm like, you're gonna fly me all the way to Atlanta to speak for seven minutes, and then I got over myself and said, Well, why don't you just go give your best seven minutes and add value? You've been given seven minutes, just give your best to that. And so I I'm not an opportunist, I'm a stewardess. Like, I just try to steward whatever opportunity I've been given. And so I went and I did a pretty good seven minutes, and I did well enough that um that that guy called his friend who has a church of 50,000 people and said, Let me just tell you what a kid just did in seven minutes at my conference. I think you need to have him speak at your church. And so I went and spoke at his church, and there was multiple people in that audience that said, Hey, I would love for you to come speak at my company. And so I did. And then I would share stories about that at the different churches that I would be speaking at. And then more and more people kept asking me to come speak at their company. They would say, Hey, that message added a ton of value to my life, and I think it would add a lot of value to the people that I work with. In fact, I know a lot of people that are dealing with that that very thing. I'll never forget the first time I was speaking for a Fortune 100 company, and they saw that I had a book called Unoffendable that's really about forgiveness. And this Fortune 100 company goes, I think that's the biggest need we have in our organization. Wow. I was like, really? And so I just look for ways to add value to people as best as I possibly can. I go where I'm invited, and so when I'm in invited to to come speak and add value, I just try to do a really, really good job. And the more that I have done that, the more they have told their friends. And I don't uh I remember first signing up with a speaker's bureau in 2021, and they they didn't get me anything for six months, and I was like, I don't think this is working. And then, you know, my agent called and said, Hey, uh, so we got your first gig. And I was like, Okay, cool. Who's it with? He said, Disney. I said, That's how we want to start things. You guys don't have like a warm-up client to kind of get me, get me, you know. And then uh, man, I just I got ranked number one at that conference and was just super humbled by that. And they said, Ryan's one of the best speakers you've ever sent us. And then they just started sharing that story with other clients and other clients and other clients. And so I say it nonchalantly because it really has been that way. It's it hasn't, I didn't wake up one day and say, man, I just want to do 120 events a year. I want to be the best speaker in the world. I I woke up today and said, How can I have value to people? And so um, as we have grown, I've grown as a person to be able to say, man, um, I've I feel like every single day I'm just getting a little bit more mature. I am very immature. So I I am I am growing up every single day just a little bit more, and and so that means I show up a little bit more mature, a little bit more seasoned, a little bit more wise uh every time that that I get an opportunity to step on a stage. And it's my clients that tell their friends or their clients about me, and and it's just continued to grow.

Doug Smith 6:03

Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about that. So, in one sense, so I had a mentor tell me uh two things. He was being mentored by John Maxwell too, and he said, Um, Doug, let the ball come to you. And he said that something that John shared with him at some point in history, and he said, John, and the pastor's name is Matt McKeller out of uh next level church of Florida. He said, Matt, if God wants to make you a name, let him do that. And I'm curious your thoughts on balancing that of like, okay, I'm gonna be faithful with what God gives me and trust him with that, versus, hey, there's also this whole world, uh like I know you you talked about Gary Via's influence to you, like, hey, go out and hustle, go out and get it. And obviously you hired a you know speaker bureau, which ended up great. How what what do you what would you say your balance is between trusting God and being faithful and actually hustling and going and getting it?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

That's a phenomenal question. Uh Mark Batterson has this phrase uh pray like it depends on God, work like it depends on you. And I think that there is something something sweet and precious about that kind of posture to say, Lord, I'm gonna give my best with what you've put in front of me. I am not going to wing it, I am not going to phone it in. No, I'm I am going to show up locked, loaded, and ready to go. But God, I can't do this without you. I need your strength. And I promise you, if you could see my inbox and if you could see the the journey of the last decade of my life, it is a complete God thing. And it's interesting. Whenever somebody has success, everyone wants to know the science of it. Oh, is it because you know John Maxwell? Oh, is it because you you have a social media team? Oh, is it because you you spoke at this megachurch? Oh, it's because you know this person. Oh, it's because you you put in your 10,000 hours. Oh, it's because everyone wants to know, oh, oh, it's because, oh, it's because it's like it's the grace of God in my life that has put me in the position that I'm in right now. And so some people could say, man, you know, it's because he hit the New York Times bestsellers list. It's like, do you know what God brought in my life way before I hit a New York Times bestsellers list? Like, if I I could tell you story after story after story, that would absolutely blow your mind that says that it doesn't there's no amount of talent that can get you in some of the rooms that that I've been in. It is uh God's open doors, and I just try to simply be faithful with with what's in front of me. And so there is this um, hey, you know, I I don't feel like a hustler. Some people think I'm a hustler. I'm like, I don't feel like a hustler. I feel lazy most days. Most days I don't hustle today. I'm like, I don't feel like going to the gym, I don't feel like I'm healthy today, I'm tired. Um but I think that there is a again, how can we steward what's in front of us? And so when you think about social media, you think about man, you have the ability to reach just about anybody and actually target videos, that is absolutely amazing. Why wouldn't you leverage that tool to be able to say, hey, we can impact a whole lot more people with content and actually choose the people that need it? And so a buddy of mine is starting a whole fatherhood thing. He literally can create amazing fatherhood content, which fathers need. And you mean to tell me that he can actually pay money to target dads all around the world? That's amazing. Why wouldn't he do that? How is that carnal? It's smart, it's using the technology that I believe God has given us and the algorithms to be able to say, no man, I could I can make an impact in this way. And so I think that we're always leveraging those things. We're always trying to learn new skills to be able to say, man, well, how can we add more value to more people? But we also have a high level of contentment that just says, I have enough. It's not this, like, I constantly need more, that I need more money, that I need more followers, that I need more fame. It's a thing of just saying, Man, I I'm just simply trying to reach my potential. I think there are some people that are sent to the planet, they're meant to just do one job. Some people are meant to lead one person, some people are meant to lead a hundred people, some people are meant to build a six-figure business, some people are meant to build a seven-figure business, some people are meant to build a billion-dollar business. All I'm trying to do is reach my potential. Before I die, I'm trying to find out what in the world did God put in me. And I want to make sure that it comes out. And in the process, I'm trying to do that for everybody else. So if you put me in front of your audience, I'm thinking to myself, how can I bring out their very best? I don't need them to be the best in the world. I'm simply trying to get them to give their best while I do the same. So I think that there is this like, Lord, with the talents you've given me, I want to honor you with that and whatever I'm capable of, I want to reach my potential before I die and help as many people do the exact same. If that means I end up with a billion dollars, so be it. But the billion dollars won't make my identity. It won't make or break me. That's not what my identity is in. But if it's the Lord wants me to steward six figures or seven figures or eight figures or nine figures or ten figures, Lord, I'm I'm I'm open. But Lord, would you give me the character to handle whatever it is that you want me to do? So that's how I navigate the tension of being able to say, hey, we're gonna trust God to bring us some things. And at the same time, we're going to be smart and wise about how we build our businesses. And so I don't ever want to, just between me and God, to ever go, the effort just wasn't there.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Because sometimes we get God dreams and then we get human lazy. And I just want to go, Lord, whatever it is you put in my heart, I want to do my part to the best of my ability.

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Doug Smith 13:12

When you talk about that word enough, I feel like leaders cringe just even hearing that enough, you know, hey, it's okay and be content with what you have, or it's what you're doing right now is enough. I feel like we always strive for more. Is is that attention that you constantly have to manage, or is that something you've you've learned and kind of settled in your heart uh in your journey? I'd be curious how you got there because I know I certainly struggle with that. Of all I always want to try to be God's best, but that typically drives me way more than me uh being content with where I am.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Totally. Great question. So I think I enjoy being around driven people. We speak the same language, I love it. We might have different fuel. I am driven from contentment. In other words, I have nothing to prove to you. So I can actually show up and just be myself. I'm not trying to impress you. Sky off the phone with the client yesterday. They said, everyone in our company said it was like he was just up there having a one-on-one conversation with all of us, but there was a thousand people in the room. I went, exactly. It's exactly what I wanted. It's like, hey guys, what's up? My name's Ryan. Today you're gonna grow. I promise you. Let's have some fun. Let's talk about it. How do we do that? And so you're there is a there is a calm that comes there of saying, hey, I'm about to bring the heat. I am trying to knock it out of the park, but I don't need to.

Doug Smith 14:45

That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

It's like, yes, I'm gonna make a lot of money this year. 100%. I'm a businessman. I have a business and it's thriving and it's going well. Let's go. But I but but I'm gonna do it from a place of saying when I sit with a client, I don't sell to anybody. In fact, some of the clients that have interviewed me are like frustrated because they were like, come on, like sell yourself. I'm like, I don't have to do that. It's like, well, tell me all of the clients you've ever spoken for. Hey, ma'am, I don't think you have that kind of time. It's a lot, it's a long list. But hey, here's the deal. You you're you can feel free to check out any of my social media platforms. I've spoken for many people in your industry, and and hey, we we'd love to add value to your event if it makes sense for our calendar. Versus, please pick me. Oh my gosh, and let me just tell you why here are five things that I think that I bring in a unique value proposition for you. And and oh, please, please, please, please, please pick me, and I just have to have it. No, no, I I I actually actually I don't have to do that. And so I think that I can get on a call with a calm, a peace, a resolve that says, Man, I would really love to do this engagement, but I don't I don't I don't have to beg for it. I think the proof can be in the pudding. Um, I just got invited to speak at Global Leadership Summit for the second time. Well, after the first time, it's like, well, they're gonna invite you back where you're not good enough, and then it's like, well, should I call them? It's just like, no, why don't you just do a good job the first time and be faithful with what's in front of you, which for me is often social media. So just be faithful with what's right in front of you and continue to deliver solid content. And then they call last week and say, we'd love to have Ryan back, we love what he's doing. Great.

Doug Smith 16:47

So I want you to talk about this word faithful, right? And so, you know, I define faithfulness as doing the best you can with what God puts in your hand, but doing your best with what you can is is probably different for everyone. And you know, in my research for you, that the when I hear about the preparation that goes in when you're gonna add value to people, can you talk a little bit about that? You know, you you mentioned about being faithful with seven minutes or three minutes just as much as you would an hour, but like what what give people kind of an idea of your prep work and what it looks like on the front end?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, I mean, it just depends on what it's for, but you know, what I try to do is, you know, you you should be well studied on the content that you're going to deliver. I think what separates good from great is when you are well studied on who's in the room. When you have your audience so dialed in that they feel like you're one of them. That's that's where I get uh where you have heard the word in your research, maniacal, is where it's like I want to know everything I possibly can about the kinds of people that are in this room down to their Enneagram number, their disc profile. I I want to know who they are, what do they do every day, and how can I, if I'm talking to them on a Thursday, how can I impact their Friday? And so I'm I'm I'm pretty insane when it comes to who are we talking to? Who who what what kind of what kind of people are these people? And and are they single? Where do they live? What do they value? Like I'm I'm constantly thinking about those things because the content's the content. So, you know, I'm gonna talk about self-awareness almost every time I'm on the stage, in some way, shape, or form. It's just my thing. I love talking about self-awareness. And I have so many self-deprecating stories, I could talk about self-awareness for five hours and and I and I would just be getting warmed up. So I know I'm always gonna talk about self-awareness, but it's not about can you talk about self-awareness? It's can you help them become more self-aware in what they do? So I just spoke to a bunch of managers of grocery stores. And so when I talked about self-awareness, I began to ask the question of what's it what's it like to be on the other side of you, on the other side of the aisle from you, on the other side of the register from you, on the other side of the bakery from you, on the other side of the of the uh backroom with you, the freezer from you. You start getting so very specific about who they are and where they are. It's not did you talk about self-awareness, it's did you talk about it in a way that is extremely relatable to them. I think there is a balance between revelation, like here's something I'm going to reveal to you that is a aha moment, and relevance. Does it relate to you? You can be the smartest person in the room, but it doesn't matter if you can't relate. And so I think that there is uh a lot that goes into how I uh ask a lot of questions wherever I'm going of the people that are gonna be in that room. So that's that's a major part of my prep.

Doug Smith 20:11

Are you gonna write a book called Maniacal? I feel like that that could be in your future. No, nah, nah, nah. Not good enough. Nah, all right. I love the word. So that's a little bit about the prep side, but I also love like your hunger for growth and your hunger for feedback. Can you share this story and maybe you have a better example? But I loved when you shared the feedback that you got when you were preaching. I think the the church was called Eagle Brook. Um can you just talk about the power of feedback and how that's also helped you grow and be faithful with what God's putting your hand?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Sure, yeah. So um I was on the teaching team at a church called Eagle Brook, and I still speak there a couple times a year. Really big church up in Minneapolis, and they they have a a really, really great system around communication. Uh you you have to hand in a manuscript of your entire message a week before you speak, and then uh it's reviewed by a couple of different pastors, and then they send you a bunch of feedback. And the first time I did it, I'm like, who are you? What to say, you know? And but then you're like, afterwards, you're like, how in the world have I been doing this for so long without feedback, without any checks and balances? You mean I just hear from God on my mountaintop, and now I just come and share with it's like, what? Who do you think you are? Like, and and the things that they would catch, they would say, No, that's actually not the NIV, that's actually the New Living Translation. Well, that's helpful. Saying just whatever you want. Um, there are things that I said, um, I mentioned a a park that I went to in in college, and it was called Hiawatha. I think it was called Hiawatha, but it was an Indian name. Well, there A lot of what's happened over the last five years, there was an Indian protest to get the name changed because apparently it was very offensive, and they actually changed the name of the park. I didn't know that because I went to college and I ain't been there in 15 years. Of course, Hiawatha Park's right there. It's just like actually, no, do not say Hiawatha. Well, without that information, I would have got up there and offended every Indian person that goes to their church, which is like a thousand people. And so you start thinking about like, I can't believe I have preached so long with no feedback. Like you just get up there and just hope it goes well. It's like, let me just surprise everybody with my genius and brilliance. It's like, no, like, humble yourself, and there is no magic moment. Let people give you feedback. I was I said, I've I've gotten incredible feedback from their team. So you do that a week before you get there. And then once you get there live, you do a Saturday service, and then you do a debrief of the message a second time with a different group of people who heard you do it live, and then they give you even more feedback. And so now when I go to churches and I don't get feedback, I get mad. I'm like, y'all are lame, man. Like, like you don't like in the passage, but why'd you send me your message beforehand? I'm like, because wouldn't you want to know what I'm gonna say at your church? He's like, I mean, they just don't do it. And so it really, it really has been a solid eagle book practice that um now when I do uh talks for Cover America, I send them all of my slides, all of my presenter notes a month in advance.

Doug Smith 23:44

So good.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

So all of their executives look at it and oftentimes they'll say, hey, slide slide 56 ain't gonna work. Well, I'm glad to know slide 56 don't work today versus in the moment, and they're like, Yeah, you said that. So, man, that's just the power of feedback, is is being able to have somebody that has eyes on your stuff because it I don't care how good you are, you're not perfect, and you can't see every angle. And so uh to be able to receive feedback from people who aren't speakers, that was foreign to me a few years ago. Now now I crave it. Now I'm like, yeah, please tell me tell me what could be better, what could add value?

Doug Smith 24:26

Because it makes you better. It's it's so good. Um I'm speaking for a company here in Pittsburgh in a few weeks, and I'm working with probably the UPMC. I don't know if you it's uh some it's the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, so they're a huge company here.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Uh but there's HiMark a lot in Bispa.

Doug Smith 24:41

You probably heard of UPMC that we got to get you in both, man, get a little competition going there. Yeah, yeah. HiMark's great. But but this event planner has been the best. I mean, you're going to talk about the same thing. Hey, send me all of your notes ahead. And she went through line by line, and literally was like, you can't say the same thing you're saying. And I was so, so grateful. But again, I think what you're saying here is like feedback is great, but you also have to have to have the humility and teachability to receive it, which I see lacking. I heard you talk a lot about character development, and this is a huge passion for mine. Uh, you know, we've seen tons of Christian leaders fall. I had a pastor tell me once, I don't know if there's data behind this, but he said, Doug, I believe about 2% of Christian leaders make it to their finish line intact, fulfilling the will of God of their life. And um, so I'm very big on you know, uh self-awareness, character development as well. I'm curious, like, how have you found the best way to develop our character to actually sustain our cult so we can make it to our finish line?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Man, that's a that's another great question. Um I think that there one, it determines on what the person's finish line is.

Doug Smith 25:54

Say more about that.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I mean, I think some people's finish line is retirement. Can you make it to retirement? It's like, is that what your life is all about? I don't know if that's what my life is all about. No judgment, but again, I'm just gonna be able to do that. Yeah, I'm with you on that, man. You know, what is what is there's no finish line. What is what is the finish line? Yeah. Um secondly, I I think there is this um what is it that you are ultimately trying to accomplish? Some people are like, man, I'm just trying to be a great husband at the end of the day. I'm like, well, it's kind of a low bar if we if we think about it, you know. I just want to be a good dad. Another low bar, you know? It's like, well, man, I I I I want to go back to to the word that we almost dove into a little bit. I think the goal for all of us should be to simply be faithful to the assignment that God gave us. In Colossians chapter four, very, very interesting phrase in the scripture. The apostle Paul is speaking to the church in Colossians, talking all about Jesus and his supremacy. And then he says, and say to Archibis, make sure you carry out the ministry that the Lord gave you. He goes from macro talking to a whole house church to a guy sitting on the back row who's this close to giving up. Except Paul says, Pause the service, I got a message not for the church, I got a message just for archivist. Hey, Archivist, make sure you carry out the ministry that the Lord gave you. And so come on, I think if that is the finish line of just saying, hey, I make sure that we carry out the ministry that the Lord gave us, I think that you know, we can't get too caught up in all of the other things. And I think the other thing can often be distractions, but I think that is um clout, social media. Um I I have a friend that talks a lot about having a healthy relationship with social media. I would argue most people have a toxic relationship with social media. So I I think that some of the healthy practices that we can have to just be faithful to the assignment that God gave us is number one. I think you have to have a strong, real community. What I mean by that, a strong real community is is is when you have people in your life who could care less about how successful you are. Come on. Dude, you know what my bet people used to say, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. I don't know if that's true. I it it could be generally true, but it hasn't been true for me. Because, dude, my my best friends are youth pastors. They don't do what I do, they don't even understand what I do. It's just like, hey, free vacations on me, guys. Let's go. How? How's all this happening? Like, just trust me, it'll be fine, you know? And but like, they're not like, man, Ryan, you you gotta hit the bestsellers list. Yeah, hey Ryan, you gotta go, you gotta go speak for Google. Hey, Ryan, you you need more like like they we we never talk about those things. We talk about our life, we talk about a walk with the Lord, we talk about our relationship with our kids, we talk about how our souls are doing, where our psyche is, and where our physical health is. And it's like I have very normal relationships. There are some people that surround themselves with highly driven people that are just like, we all gotta be billionaires by 40. Gotta be versus can be are two completely different things. It's like, again, I want to help you reach your potential, but at what cost? So beautiful. And so I think that there has to be a level of having some people in your life that they're not writing on your success. They're not your friend because you're successful. I think you got to have some people in your life that uh can ask you tough questions, that can call you out, that can say, hey, that little relationship you have with that girl that's not your wife is a little too familiar. I'm not accusing you of anything.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

But I see a crack in your arm. You you you have to be able to say, hey, you know, that expense report, what we put on it, I I think there's some things on it that probably are just personal expenses. Maybe we need to go get those receipts back. Like I'm talking about some people that that have a true conviction that can say, man, I was doing this, and you know what? I that wasn't right. Uh I don't I don't want to do that anymore. It's it's if you don't have that in your life, well then yeah, you have no boundaries, you have no you have no guardrails. You have you have uh most people that I see that quote unquote have a moral failure, I think didn't have real friends. Come on, man. That's what I think 100% like that that could go, hey. Why why are you out till one in the morning? Yeah. What I was ministering to who? Hey man, I I I think you could take them to coffee at 1 p.m. is probably what's going to be better. You can't tell me how to live this. It's like, well then I guess we're not real friends.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

To be able to say, hey, I think that there's some there are some red flags here. And anybody that has anybody that I know that has had a moral failure, I have never been surprised. I've never been, I didn't see that coming. It was always like, there was just a little something in the conversation, a little bit of a lingering, like, hmm, I'm a hugger. You are? Okay. All right. Are you sure? You know, there was always just something, like just a just a little bit, they're like, I don't. But again, if I'm not in a relationship with you, yeah, like me and my friends, we talk that way all the time. We're very much in each other's business. Uh, if I get a DM from somebody that looks suspicious in any way, shape, or form, it's in a group chat.

Doug Smith 32:34

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

It's like, hey man, look at this girl, she's crazy. It's like like like they see that like and they see that there's no response. It's just like, yeah, but you you can you you've got eyes on it. There's there's somebody that truly knows who you really are. And if you if you don't have, if if you're professional with everybody and you're you're consistently wearing this mask and you're carrying this persona at all times, good luck keeping that up. Uh, but I I think the more uh as a person that is consistently on stages, where people can tend to put the person on stage on a pedestal, I strategically, with my words on stage, get off it. And I love it. I I love talking about anger in a church and just going, let me tell you who the angriest person is I know. Me. And I'll just tell 10 stories of how I'm angry and how I have to bow before God and say, Would you help me? Let it go. I don't know why you get so mad. Now, I may not have never abused somebody, I may have never thrown a coffee cup across a room. But man, there can be this darkness that can fester on the inside of me. And if you can't realize that, it's like, but if I get on stage and I'm going, hey, all of you out there, let me help you with your anger issues because I'm the guru and I'm the man. Listen to me. I'm gonna help you today. It's gonna be fun. Buckle up. Well, uh of course, people are going, I can't believe that he would ever get mad because it's like you've you've never actually shared any of your flaws. But I think the more you can live humbly before God and men and be able to share very real stories with people and and and be a human being. I think I think people subtly take you off of the pedestal in your mind. And and again, honestly, here's the crazy thing it just makes you more relatable. More people are going, I like this guy even more. Yep. Not because he's he's got it dialed in more than me. It's like, man, I like this guy even more because well, I get mad.

Doug Smith 34:54

You're real, yeah. It's authentic.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

So I I think if if you're if you're able to be like real about those things, and then you don't have to be like secretive. Yeah. You know, I man, I love what one of my friends said. He said, Man, there's there's a there's a uh there's a gal at my job that I just I don't talk to, but if I'm honest, I I find her very attractive. And I thought, the fact that you told me, yes, instead of going, well, hey, how can I create this, these moments with her, it's like that's a level of transparency that I think is required. And I just think so many people get to a place of success where they feel like I can't even admit that. Okay, so you just burn with darkness until it over overwhelms you, and now you're hiding. Instead of just living out in the open to say, hey, like, man, I'm I'm a human being like other people, and I just every every now and then I'm around. So hey, I've got to put some boundaries here. I don't I don't ever want to be alone with this person. I don't, you know, so you're you're able to tell somebody, you're not gonna tell everybody all your business, but I think there's just something powerful about that of being able to be able to reach out to somebody and say, hey, I'm I'm actually I'm actually struggling right now. Don't call me after you already messed up, which you can, but I wanted you to know you could have called me when you were driving to the hotel. And I would have said, Hey, don't ruin your life.

Doug Smith 36:28

Come on. Yeah, we need a lot more confession of temptation on the front end. Uh so good. I lead a ministry, uh, I call it a pastormine group. There's ministry leaders here in Pittsburgh, and we always say, you know, we all need a group that where you're fully known, fully loved, and fully challenged. And we started this group, and all these guys came together, and within a year, all of them have come to me literally in tears and saying, like, I didn't know how bad I needed this. And, you know, hey, what did you need? And it wasn't like these great thoughts about ministry or great ministry ideas, friendship. That's it. Like, I just needed friendship, and I have it. I have brothers now that I can lock arms with, I can cry with, I can pray for, I can actually acknowledge, like, hey, I'm just as messed up as everyone else. It's been so beautiful, and it's exactly what you're saying. Our our goal and vision is like, hey, we all want to make it to the finish line, locking arms intact. Let's do that. Um, one thing I would love for you to talk about, and then I want to talk about your books, uh, and it's related to this character. Uh, part of of making it to your finish line is is hopefully keeping your family intact. I know you're a family guy as well. Yeah, you had the opportunity to have lunch with Rick Warren, and when you shared what he shared with you, like I uh I was listening to a podcast in the car, I almost drew off the road. Can you can you share what he shared with you? Because I think every leader on the planet needs to hear this.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah, Rick Warren, I asked him. Uh I got to spend about three hours with him a couple years ago, and about two and a half hours in, I said, Hey, what do you see? I'm just curious. And he said, I think your career will be fine. He said, You have enough talent that your career will take care of itself. He said, The only thing that won't take care of itself is your family, and your lifestyle is not good for you. And I was like, What? What do you mean? He said, Well, not necessarily you, but guys like you. He said, Everywhere you go, you're treated like a king. Red carpet treatment, VIP, presidential suites, steak dinners, the best food, first class. And he said, he said, a line, I'll never forget, he said, your your family can't compete with that. He said, Your family can't compete with the lights, the cameras, the action, the standing ovations, arenas, signs, book signings, photo ops. Like those th those three beautiful humans you have at the house. Like, it's what are they supposed to do when you come home? It's like they can't compete with that. He says, so you need to have something that grounds you when you get home. And he says, So I I he said, I tell people, like you, whenever you go home, make sure you change your own diapers and mow your own lawn. And uh he said, you need something to bring you back down to normal. He said, because your life is not normal. And that has been huge for me. And so I have turf in the backyard, that's a very small backyard, so that's not like bragging right there. Um, but so I I just when I get home, I love mopping, mopping our floor, you know, and sometimes it'll be like 11 o'clock at night. What are you doing? You just got home. Like, I well, I I know I'm home, but now I need to come home. Like I need to recenter myself of just being like, man, I'm I'm I'm just a dad. I'm I'm just I'm just a husband. You know, there there can be this thing in you, especially for high-level leadership. Especially if you're a platformed leader, especially if you're an influencer leader, the attention that you get from large amounts of people, it just can't compete. There's just too many likes, there's just too many comments of people that can give you affirmation that you're that the people in your life just can't keep up with. And so it's it's really not a fair comparison. So you've you've gotta have something in your life that truly keeps you grounded, and and and I was just extremely grateful for Rick Warren's advice on that because you know, that was probably two, three years ago, and it has man, I I I would say it has it has been a it has been a game changer. My drive home from the airport a couple times a week is a decompression of going back into what is real life. Yeah you know, it's it is a you know, you talk to a thousand people who've never heard your story, they've never heard of you, you've never heard of me up up until two weeks ago, type of deal. And so every joke I tell is gonna be funny because you never heard it. Yep, of course you're gonna think I'm awesome. You know, it's just like the people that live with me, they've heard every joke, they've heard every story. They're they're just like, it's just our dad. You know, it's just I'm I'm in suit and tie most days. At home, I'm in basketball shorts and a hoodie. You know, it's like so I I try to show up for them in a way that I show up for other people with a you know a high level of intentionality and being able to uh add value to their lives as well. So it's definitely not easy, the the back and forth, uh, but it is something that I think is is vitally important.

Doug Smith 41:47

And and Ryan, real just quick, because I was nerding out on this, so I love your preparation. You know, I I heard you talk about how you have an actual tab, you had a tab on questions you'd ask John Maxwell if you ever got time with him. And now you've got you uh, which I love. You got a three-hour lunch with Rick Warren. It was funny, I was listening to your thoughts on this, which I would love for you to share. And I had the honor to have uh lunch with John as well. And as you were sharing how you prep, I'm like, okay, check, check, like I did that. And then you're like, don't take a picture at the meeting. I'm like, come on, bro. Dang it. I had it until the very end. I had to get a picture. I fanboyed out. And so, but can you talk about uh and uh man, I love the question you asked of like, why do you want to meet with this person? But like, sure, how do you get meet how do you get meetings with people like a Rick Warren? When you do, how do you prep for it? Like, and how do you maximize that time?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Well, I I you know, when I'm when I sat with Rick, I was there to speak at Saddleback. Oh, I didn't necessarily like get a meeting with Rick. It was more of like, hey, we're both speaking at the men's event and let's get some time together. It's like great. So we we just we got to hang out and and just um I feel like I learned from him. I don't know that he learned from me, but I learned from him.

Doug Smith 43:07

I'm sure he did.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Um I think in preparation for that, it's you're you're you're talking about high-level people who they have thousands of people who would love to get their time. You're just looking for a way to one uh make sure that they don't feel like their time is wasted. Number two, um if you can find a crevice in anything that they're sharing, can you add value to their life?

Doug Smith 43:44

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Is there a new technology that they could utilize that would add value to their ministry, their book world, their and so John would tell you? John Maxwell, he would tell you, Ryan challenges me as much as I challenge him. Because I'm consistently pushing the envelope on what's possible. And so as I'm learning, I'm going, hey John, have you thought about he'll say, Oh, you got to meet with the team on that. That's awesome. That's cool. So it's like you're so when you're staying ahead of the curve, you can have something valuable to share when you're with them that can add value to their world. And so, you know, you take like a Rick Warren and being able to say, hey, has your did you know your social media team can target people that are far from God on the internet? I didn't know that. I know that. So now you're not just you're not a leech. Yeah. You're not just there to get something from there, from them. You're there to add value to what they do in their overall mission. So I think that's a good thing.

Doug Smith 45:03

Just out of curiosity, where would you throw that in? Like it's your first time lunch with John. Like, where do you throw that in in the meeting?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

It's not a it's not a throw-in. Um, you know, I've got my list of questions. I'm not gonna ask every single one of them.

SPEAKER_05 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Um I'm gonna let him talk and and then I'm gonna, you know, similar to this conversation, he says something that makes you think of another question. Um, but I'm profusely taking notes live. I want him to see that I'm I'm doing that. Um, I also you also want them to feel like you're gonna go do something with what they've shared. Yeah, that there is a implementation uh side of it that I think that's important. Nobody nobody wants to to feel like they're giving advice to somebody who they're just there to get the advice because the advice feels good, but they're not actually going to do anything about it.

SPEAKER_05 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Um so I I I think that that is that that's important that you you really posture yourself to truly be a learner. Some people get around people that are of notable stature, if you will, and they fall for the temptation to try and impress these people. Stop it. Like you want them to be in that want them to go, wow. You you know, it's like they can feel that. It's like just be yourself, you know. There is this like, man, um I'd love to learn from you. I also I don't want to ask questions you've already answered in your book. Like if you've already answered it in a book, why am I asking it shows you that I didn't do my homework. So you're you're trying to think of what's a question they don't get asked every day that isn't a part of their everyday content. So for example, talking leadership with John. Uh John rarely talks about marriage. So I ask questions about marriage and leadership because that's not a whole lot in his books. So I'm trying to come with a different angle that isn't atypical. Um so so I I think whenever whenever you're with the people, you're trying to figure out you know what's what's gonna be valuable for their time, what what gets them leaned in, what gets them excited to talk about. Uh I had a coaching call earlier today, somebody was trying to navigate their speaking career and navigating what their keynote's gonna be, and I could have that conversation for four hours. I love that conversation. And then, you know, somebody else could ask me questions about you know relationships I have in the NBA, and I'm like, I hate this conversation. Like I'm gonna the super short answers, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get to work for that person. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Like it's just it almost shuts me down. So when you're asking questions, looking at where they perk up, when they where they light up, what what are the things that they love talking about? Um and and just and just being attentive to those things. Yeah. And and I I'm a I'm a gift giver as well. So I try to I try to study the person before I show up, and I try to either show up with a gift or uh afterwards I send a gift after I have met with them to uh to make sure that they feel like I valued their time.

Doug Smith 49:16

So did you ever hear I actually heard the story first from John, the story of the woman that created Aflack Duck, who got uh an interview with Warren Buffett. So she gets an interview with Warren Buffett, finds out he loves Diet Cherry Coke, goes up to the interview, buys like a diet cherry coke, puts it in a cooler on ice, glass bottle. She said, Mr. Buffett, you know, in doing my research, I found out you love Diet Cherry Coke, and I thought we'd start this interview with something you love. She was supposed to get 10 minutes. Warren Buffett looks at her and says, Young lady, in all my years of doing interviews, no one's ever brought me a diet cherry coke. You can have as much time as you want. Give her an hour and a half. Favorite story ever. So when you say gift giver, man, uh, I want to, we only have a few minutes left.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Sure. I want to talk you've got an amazing story, by the way.

Doug Smith 49:55

Oh, I love it. Um, you've written three books. You have a brand new one out called How to How to Work with Complicated People, which I'm sure there's no market for. No one ever works with complicated people. Uh man, what a what a great subject to focus on. Why'd you write this book and ultimately like what what impact do you want it to have in people's lives?

SPEAKER_01 50:13

You know, I think when it comes to people's job satisfaction, it has a whole lot less to do with their job description and more the people that they do the job with. We discovered in our research that you know people can pull off a pretty difficult job with people they enjoy over their dream job with people they have to tolerate. It's like, would you rather go work construction with your best friends or sit in a corner office, but people nag you all day long. Yeah, you got the title, you got the salary, but you're like, man, I don't I don't know. I didn't you know some people would say I'll I'll I'll take the corner office. Man, most people would actually say I'll take it with my buddies. In fact, we can we can do we can do just about anything. We could work at the movie, we could work at Burger King together, and we would have the time of our life flipping burgers. Or, you know, we could be I I can't tell you how many people that I know have incredible jobs, people that work in professional sports and they hate their life. They hate their life, and everybody else is so jealous of a life they hate. And so I I think it comes down to your people skills and being able to do um to do a job even with people that are difficult. And I think if you can learn the skill of working with complicated people, I actually think you could work anywhere. Uh there's a line in the book where I say where you work does not have to determine how you work. Uh, there is a gas station that's uh widely known here, especially in Texas, called Bucky's. Bucky's is the Chick-fil-A of gas stations, and you don't feel like you're in a gas station. You feel like you're at Nordstrom, you feel like you're at a Ritz-Carleton, but you're actually at a gas station. And I just thought I was there with my family one day, and literally we were driving to a resort in Austin. We got treated better at the gas station than we did at the resort.

SPEAKER_05 52:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

And I just thought in that moment, where you work does not have to determine how you work. You can work at a gas station and give Ritz Carleton customer service. Why? Because it's just a mindset. And the other funny part is it's just it's really about being nice to people. It's about just being considerate to go, hey, how are you? How's your day? Versus most people when you think of a gas station, hello,$7.99. You think of people that don't care about their life when you think about a gas station worker, not at Bucky's. Bucky's is they got a mascot. They got people that are like so considerate of others. And so I just I think that there is a the power of this book is that man, I actually can control my work culture a little bit by the attitude that I bring. In fact, in our research, we learned that what made somebody complicated in somebody else's eyes, number one, was attitude. That person's attitude determine whether or not they were complicated. And I go, Well, that's good news. And they're like, Well, why? I'm like, it's the one thing you can control.

SPEAKER_05 53:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Like you can't control the economy or tariffs or the entire policies of your organizational structure and change management and supply chain issues. No, you can't control that, but can you control your attitude? Absolutely. So that's my hope with the book is that people are able to walk away and feel like, man, you know what? I I can I can actually enjoy my job, even the ones that are difficult as I get better with people.

Doug Smith 53:33

So good. We'll include a link to the book and all of your books as well as ways to book you for speaking in the show notes. Ryan, it's an absolute honor to spend an hour with you. Thanks for adding value to me and adding value to everyone who will listen to this. Appreciate it. My pleasure. Well, leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Ryan. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything that we discussed in the show notes below. I also want to thank our sponsor, Endosha Marketing Solutions. They're the producers of this podcast. And if your organization has any marketing needs, I wholeheartedly recommend you check out Endosha. And you can learn more about their services at endosha.com. That's A-N-D-O-C-I-A.com. And as always, I'll like to end every episode with a quote. It's a quote my hero, John Maxwell, who said this. He said, leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. And leader, I just want to encourage you to learn as much as you can about the art of influencing others. It really does make a difference. That's going to wrap up today's episode. As always, leader, remember don't quit. Keep leading. The world desperately needs your leadership. We'll talk to you next episode.