How Great Leaders Accelerate the Next Generation with Pastor John Nuzzo

In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, Doug Smith sits down with Pastor John Nuzzo, founder of Victory Family Church and author of The Acceleration Mandate.

Pastor John is also one of the most influential voices in my life — my pastor, mentor, and spiritual father.

And honestly… this may be one of the most important conversations we’ve ever had on the podcast.

We talked about:
• Why most leaders accidentally limit the next generation
• The difference between mentoring and true spiritual fathering
• How to avoid becoming cynical, isolated, or judgmental as a leader
• Why proximity matters more than information
• What great leaders do to accelerate others instead of controlling them
• How to finish your race with integrity, joy, and impact

⏱️ Episode Breakdown

00:00 – Introduction and The Acceleration Mandate
01:00 – Lessons from Pastor John’s father and upbringing
05:00 – Leadership after 30+ years of ministry
06:00 – Accelerating the next generation
08:00 – Spiritual fathers and mothers
09:00 – The “2%” principle: finishing well
12:00 – The danger of victim mentality in leadership
14:00 – Why proximity matters in mentorship
16:00 – What Pastor John looks for in younger leaders
20:00 – Loving people through difficult seasons
24:00 – Why the Church struggles with restoration
27:00 – Pastor John’s conviction about judging leaders
30:00 – Divorce, heartbreak, and restoration
33:00 – The leader who helped relaunch Pastor John’s future
36:00 – Practical ways to accelerate younger leaders
39:00 – “Don’t ask me about the new wineskin”
43:00 – How anyone can impact the next generation
47:00 – David, Solomon, and succession leadership
49:00 – Why churches shouldn’t stay known for their founders
52:00 – The power of friendship in leadership
55:00 – Accountability and lifelong relationships
59:00 – Lessons learned from John C. Maxwell
01:03:00 – Why leadership is about deeply engaging people
01:05:00 – Final wisdom on acceleration and legacy
01:06:00 – The three truths Pastor John hopes to leave behind

🎙 Guest
John Nuzzo – Founder of Victory Family Church and author of The Acceleration Mandate

Show Notes Links & Resources

People Mentioned

• John Nuzzo — Senior Pastor of Victory Family Church and author of The Acceleration Mandate
• Doug Smith
• John C. Maxwell
• Henry Cloud

Organizations & Ministries

• Victory Family Church
• Northway Christian Community

Books & Resources Mentioned

• The Acceleration Mandate by John Nuzzo

🤝 Sponsor

Andocia Marketing Solutions – https://andocia.com

The L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Andocia Marketing Solutions.
Andocia exists to bring leaders’ visions to life. Learn more at www.andocia.com

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Transcript

Doug Smith 0:00

Hey leader, and welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith, and I'm your host, and we recorded this episode live from our Virgo Realty Studios. Well, leader in today's episode, you are in for a treat. You're going to hear my conversation with one of my heroes, my mentors, my pastor and friend, Pastor John Nuzo. And we talk about all kinds of things in the interview. We talk about his new book called The Acceleration Mandate, which I highly recommend you pick up a copy of. We talk about leadership and ministry and so much more. I think this is going to add so much value to your life. So with that being said, let's just dive right in. Here's my conversation with John Nuzo. Pastor John, it's great to be with you.

John Nuzzo 0:43

Great to be here.

Doug Smith 0:44

Yeah, I think this is your third or fourth time on the podcast. But this time, you know, after how many years of ministry, you have your first book out, which is super exciting, The Acceleration Mandate. And we're gonna jump into that. And a lot of the book has to do with fathering the next generation. You've obviously been a spiritual father to me for the past 20 plus years. But I thought we'd start with some fun. So knowing you as long as I have, uh speaking of fathers, I know your father made a huge impact on your life. Yeah, that's one way to say it. But I'd love to hear your, you know, I love your stories about your dad and some of the funny phrases that he have uh or had. I'd love to hear maybe your top three to five favorite phrases from what was your I don't even know your dad's first name.

John Nuzzo 1:22

John.

Doug Smith 1:22

Oh, John. Okay. Are you junior?

John Nuzzo 1:24

The second.

Doug Smith 1:25

Okay, John News is the second. I would love to hear Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:28

So what my dad would, number because I had his name, he would lovingly jack me up against the wall. And he would say, hey boy, he goes, You you you don't be stupid. Your brothers can be stupid, but you carry my name. So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna punish you double. You screw my name up. So he was just, we didn't have much of a relationship conversing when we were growing up. It was more of like, dad, go, shut up, I'm busy. What do you what do you want? Leave me alone, go talk to your mother. But as he as I got older, he was we got to be friends. And so uh kind of when I was a kid, one of my friends, his dad let us smoke in his house drink. And I told my dad, I didn't tell him what we were doing, but I said, so-and-so, he's friends with his dad. The old dude, he grabbed me. He was like a bear, he had fur, he didn't have hair. He just he grabs me, not like this with leverage, like this. That was maybe 15. He just jerks me up off the ground, pulls me up in his face, and he yells where my hair's blowing back. I look like your friend. And he puts me down because I'll be your friend someday, right now. You need a father, boy. Now shut up and go talk to your mother, you know. So, and I'm cleaning it up. There would have been a lot of beeps in there. And so he would, you know, he'd do something stupid. He'd say, Use your mother's maiden name. Oh, use my name, use your mother's maiden name. So he was just, he was, we had so much fun as he got older and I got older. And uh, but he wasn't a fun guy growing up. He was just business, and he didn't care how he felt. He said, Your mother cares how you feel. Maybe it's one of the best ones he would tell you is he'd say, Well, he told me this and he wasn't wrong because I was doing a lot of uh substances that alter your life. And he would say, He goes, he goes, you know, you're not as smart as other people. You're gonna have to work hard. He said, I just remember that. He goes, You're gonna have to work hard. He goes, and I don't know what you're gonna do for a job when the steel mill's closed. He goes, I don't know how you're gonna make a living. I was like, Well, thanks, Daddy, for the encouragement. You know, he was he was just fun.

Doug Smith 3:22

So he was a lot of fun, but I'm curious, is there a lesson or two you took from his life on a positive note that you're like?

John Nuzzo 3:26

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was so integral. And so if you ever tried to ask my dad to use his influence to better your life or to put you in a position where you didn't really or shouldn't have had influence, and he'd go off on me like a bottle rocket. He'd say, What's the matter with you? Because he was on a school board for like 30 some years. And I'd, you know, you know, stuff happens in the school, and I'd say, Dad, you need to do whatever. And he'd be like, Well, no one cares what you think. But shut up and go to school. Because no one only care, the only person who cares that you're happy is your mother. And someday you're gonna get married, and your wife's never gonna care for you like your mother. So get just the best it's ever gonna be in your life. So give me the job, work hard, then you're gonna die. That's your life. Wow. He was just, but you know, the truth of it is he was so integral.

Doug Smith 4:13

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 4:13

And he was safe. Uh, he didn't sound safe, but the truth, I knew he loved me. Yeah. And that just hey, I'm I'm grew up in an Italian home with a steel worker. So you work in it, he didn't come over and go, hey Johnny, how are you feeling today? You know, I didn't get any of that. Yeah. He always said, I don't care. Who cares how you feel? No one cares. No one cares. Shut up and go to work. How many of those phrases made it to the next generation of the news of the house? Oh, I used them all the time for my kids. Yeah. Every time the show would leave me with the kids, I'd be alone with our kids, watching them and parenting them. And they would start complaining. And I'm like, hey, dude, your mom's not here. I said, Oh, we're hungry. I said, cook something. Go and get something in there and eat it. They were like, you know, like 10 or 11. I'm like, oh my, mom would get something, and back this before cell phones. We're gonna call, we're gonna try to call mom. And she's so I'd take the phone up, though. You can't call. I said, you can't call your mother. Forget that. I'd take the phone, they were like, Well, dad wouldn't let us have that. She goes, Why aren't you nice to these kids? I go, baby, I'm awesome to these kids. They just need to you do that crap for them. I don't need that. It's like, guys, yeah, just jump, go have fun, leave me alone.

Doug Smith 5:22

That's awesome.

John Nuzzo 5:23

So anyway, yeah, I probably picked up more than I should have from my father.

Doug Smith 5:26

Uh well, thanks for sharing that. I want to talk a little bit about ministry before we go to the book. You're are you 65? Yes. 65 years old, so you know, I'm 40. I grew up under you in my 20s and 30s, and you know, we're aspiring to build one day. You've been pioneering now for 30 plus years. I'm curious, when you actually get to be 65 after pioneering and building everything you build, what does it what does it actually just feel like at this season of ministry? Because right now my generation is stuck in the boating stages, and we're picturing like, hey, in 20 years, yeah. You never think it's gonna come, but here we are.

John Nuzzo 5:57

You know, I think, Doug, the main thing is that had God not dealt with me, what ended up being this didn't start out as a book. It was just I thought God dealing with me. But when I when I really delved into it, I I saw that it was something God was doing across the body of Christ. And it was it was broader than just my life, and and I felt it was a mandate to get it into written form. But I would think without this understanding, I think it would have been very hard. I I think I would have had um the perception I was losing something. And I think that's one of the struggles of how people in my generation, what in the book I call them Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the daughter of three generations at one time. Jacob's being, you know, kids in their 18 and under 20s, 30s, 40s, even early 50s would be Isaac's. And then Abraham's are those who've kind of built their life and and their best, their building years are behind them. And I just I think I would have felt like I was losing something. And then the presumption that the next generation should have followed what my practices and my understanding of how to reach culture, and and I I wouldn't have done it on purpose, but I think it would have been very negative. It would have, um, in Jesus' terms, I would have taken new wine, put it into an old wineskin, burst the wineskin, because as it expands, the wineskin of my generation, it already expanded. And and I you would lose both the wineskin and the wine. So it would have devastated both sides. And no, and I never would have done that on purpose. But now, since understanding the power of when God turns your heart to the next generation, uh I'm having the time in my life. Honestly, I was just in a meeting this morning with Sean Moore, who's gonna be my successor here. And and when I listened to him talk in our meeting, the clarity, the the balance, I'm thinking, God, this has got to get in his hands yesterday. I'm I can't tell you how excited I am. Now I do walk up to Sean and I pretend I'm taking a burden off my shoulder, and I push his shoulder down, and they go, It's coming, as my grandfather, it comes, Louis, it comes your way, it's just the fuck you. Don't do what he. And uh, but but I mean, but I love him like a son.

Doug Smith 8:09

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 8:09

So watching your life from when you came to this church and in such a broken place, and and watching how you've thrived in your walk with God, watching the kind of husband you are, the kind of dad you are, all 19 of your children. Yeah, yeah. And uh to me, um if I were to ask you for your kids, will you be more or less gratified if they exceed your life?

Doug Smith 8:36

More. Yeah.

John Nuzzo 8:37

Well, I think one of the difficulties is that we see ourselves as mentors and mentorees and not fathers and mothers and sons and daughters. Yeah. When God turns your heart as a father or as a mother, and then conversely turns the heart of the children back to the fathers, there's this desperation to see your kids do better than you. So, you know, there's there's so many things the Holy Spirit has shown me as to how to accelerate the next generation and what he really desires for them, of which I don't know what that is, but I know that I'm supposed to help accelerate them, not tell them what to do.

Doug Smith 9:10

Yeah. I want to ask you about positioning yourself to even be in a position to accelerate others. Because a phrase that you told me when I was probably 22, I don't know how old I was, but young leader, you said, and again, I don't know if there's data behind this, but you said, I think about only 2% of Christian leaders make it to their finish line with their families intact, their ministry intact, their character. Yes. And again, I'm only 40, but uh, if it's not 2%, it's not much higher.

Speaker 6 9:31

Right.

Doug Smith 9:32

You've made it, and again, God has now positioned you for this, but you talked about the weight on your shoulders. What do you think it is about the way that you and Michelle stewarded the call of God on your lives that's enabled you to basically be in a position to be an Abraham to the next generation?

John Nuzzo 9:45

Well, this is probably gonna be culturally backwards to say this. But Michelle was willing to devote herself to our family first. And that doesn't mean you can't have a calling in a role outside your home. That has nothing to do with this. But what comes first? And we never looked at what we did as who was seen, who was unseen. There was no competition. It was we were so united. And we also were willing to make sacrifices. Now, I was probably under the party uh poverty line up to probably 38 years old. Um but we we never thought about it. I didn't, I didn't know. I just didn't care because what we were building was a life, and that life would then build your future. And so I think part of it is that together we had such a dream together to to help people. And and so much of what this church is today came out of her soul, the heart behind it, the the care for people. If if it were just me, there'd be such a void in this church. And I think sometimes when when couples go on this journey together, and it's so much it's so much more complex today than it was. We didn't even have options. And so, in the sense that your generation, people can make money without I mean, there's all kinds of different ways that people can can pursue their lives, and there's and I'm not saying there's a one size fits all, but it's this combined this combined commitment to each other that nothing moves you. Life's not perfect, God knows it's not perfect. But we fought through life together, we fought a lot too, okay? And and we had to grow through a lot as as individuals, terribly unhealthy people. Uh and I don't mean like we weren't abuses to each other, adultery, and but we were not healthy people. And you don't know you're not healthy when you're unhealthy. And I think when you when we what we fought through together uh instead of a running away, made us so much better. And uh and this church is a reflection after 32 years not so much of the greatest decisions we ever made, but maybe the places that were most broken that we just we just didn't want other people to have to deal with and and duplicate in their life.

Doug Smith 12:04

Yeah. I'm curious, uh other people, you've seen tons of people who haven't made it to their Abraham season or disqualified them, or at least limited significantly what their influence could have been. Yes. What separated you but by the gray scobe, right? But like what has where do you see people miss it where it's like they could have had it, but they they they got like I'm just curious where there are barriers in the for both Abraham and Isaac.

John Nuzzo 12:28

Yeah. The primary barriers for that Isaac generation, in my view, are are are are are one is a major one, is that they've been injured a lot. And not just real injury, but even perceived injury. So there I I jokingly say that there's a generation that's being fostered to get a gold medal in the Victim Olympics. And and they're an affront to real people that have been victimized. Yeah. But if you just go on Facebook, I mean, just there's whole ministries per se, ministries. I call them vomit, but the people call them ministries. Where all they do is try to expose people across the world that have made bad decisions in the church. They have the I'm gonna pull up the skirt of the body of Christ ministry. Can you imagine standing before Jesus? What'd you do? I lifted up the skirt of your body and tried to show everybody the worst part. It's like, what's wrong with you? If you look at those posts, there'll be thousands of comments and that presumption and that lack of humility and this almost hatred of people that have failed. Jesus in the scripture, the word defines a spiritual man or woman by what you do when someone fails. Paul, when he wrote to the Church of Galatia, he said, You that are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of meekness. And and you want to know why aren't people being restored? There aren't many spiritual people. We live in a world today that if someone fails, people want to promote it, talk about it, comment about it. What about the person? And so to me, the the the end of the then you get there are real injuries though. There's real church hurt. And when people are hurt, they build isolation walls. They think they're protecting themselves, but they build prisons. And then I'd say the second one, Doug, is that their mentors are five minutes older than they are. They're not learning from fathers and mothers who are not giving you their best days, they're giving you their worst days and their worst decisions and their best decisions. And I think a lot of times the emerging generation, because of access to information, that you have the best of the best of the best. You can pick up your phone. And and you you don't have enough life to listen to all the wonderful stuff, right? Um which I think is fantastic. But it it gives the illusion that that information can be received that will change your life without proximity to a person. And and that never works. It's like if if Michelle and I during COVID were separated and we were on FaceTime, and I was in another country, couldn't get back for two years and or a year or whatever. And and then I come back to Cranberry Township and I just keep FaceTiming her. Is that there's a lie that you can be mentored, if you will. You can be mentored on on a on a podcast, on a through a book, through fill in the blank. You cannot be father and mother without proximity. And and and there's this this God is going to is turning the hearts of your generation to fathers. Yeah. But it starts with the fathers.

Doug Smith 15:31

Yeah. I want to follow up on all three of those things that you said. Since we're on proximity, I'll I'll talk about that. You talked about the power of getting in the room. Yes. Uh, and I think Isaacs do have a longing to be in the room with Abrahams. You know, they want to meet with Pastor John, they want to meet with whoever. Uh, what advice do you have for them on getting in the room? Because your time is limited. You want to make sure that you're utilizing the best they can. What is it a I I guess what characteristics do you look for in Isaacs to actually get your time or other leaders' times you've gotten in the room with and pretty incredible people yourself? I'm just talking about proximity.

John Nuzzo 16:02

Well, I would tell you that you've done it, but it starts with humility and it has to be, it can't just be transactional. Yeah. Meaning, I just want something from you. Uh it's there's this genuineness about you when you talk to people that I've watched, because I watch I listen to your podcast and watch it. Is that you have a genuine humility when you ask questions. You're not asking questions to hear yourself talk or to be perceived. Let me give a great question, and so I look good while he gives the answer. You genuinely are curious. Is that to go into environments with people, and I've seen you're always prepared. And being very very plain, I think leaders that are wise will follow the ministry of Jesus and how he devoted his time. He spent his least amount of time with the multitudes, more time with 70, more time with 12, and out of that 12, more time with three. So he didn't distribute his time evenly. He invested it in a very imbalanced way. In fact, at the ascension, it's possible, to the best of my understanding, you can read that out. We're only 12 people present. I think that's almost irresponsible. You imagine death, burial, resurrection, 12 people were at the ascension. And an angel says, This same Jesus over in there, like I'm thinking, there's got to be a moment. There's like 12 dudes. See ya. And he and he, the dude didn't die, you know, it's not like I'll delegate and watch you. He left the planet. Yeah. Right?

Doug Smith 17:34

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 17:34

And so I would say that that that that that this that desire to draw from what you cannot get from a teacher. The Bible says you have 10,000 instructors, but you don't have many fathers. Father's gonna give you something an instructor won't. They're gonna give you their life.

Doug Smith 17:50

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 17:51

And so I'm very cautious on where I invest my time. I I always greet people after church and will, as long as I'm a part of this church, I just love to be with people. I probably have 15 requests a weekend. I need to meet with you. And it's about a problem. And so what I I say to folks is that is that look, we have a real process to help you deal with your problems. And there are people more than able. Yeah, but I need to meet with you. I said, Yeah, you really don't. And and then I've actually being candid, people would say, I won't go to church if I can't meet with the pastor. I said, Well, I hope you enjoy the one you go to. Because I'm I said, now here's the reality every one of those people have somebody that that is above them. That if they can't help you, it's gonna go to them, and then it's gonna go to someone else. But if I get the phone call, it's gonna be one of the worst days of your life. And I need to be available to deal with catastrophic issues, not the everyday common things that knowing the Bible and knowing people that have walked through these issues can help you with. And so, what I'm not willing to do is to take all of my time and to invest it in problems that can be solved if you walk with God and if you learn the word of God and you learn how to be selfless. You have a marriage, marriage guy's talking to me. I'm I'm kind to people, and I kind of do it trying to be cute humorous, but I go, look, I can't make you a not uh I can't make you stop being an idiot husband. So my first question, you want to counsel with me? Are you an idiot? The way you treat your wife? Yeah. Well, what do you mean? I said, are you do you say stupid things all the time? I you know, I have. If you uh do you apologize well? Well, you know she, I say, see, you're an idiot. I said, so that's our first, we just did our first session. So we have a process for you.

Doug Smith 19:37

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 19:38

But you don't want to do the process. You want to skip the and you can't skip anything. You don't get to go, you can't skip the line in growth. But if something catastrophic happens, uh I don't care what time of the day it is or night, my phone rings, I go. Yeah. And if when they need me in those situations. And so Jesus wasn't always everywhere, available to everyone all the time.

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Doug Smith 21:04

This is kind of a sidetrack, but one of my favorite stories about you was from our friend Denny Patton. And uh, if you don't know Denny, he led an incredible ministry called Silver Ring Thing and several other things here. Dear friend of yours, he ended up having a battle with cancer. And he told me, he said he was having a really hard time. He was in the hospital going through chemo, one of the worst days of his life, and you came to mind. And uh he invited you and you came and visited him, and he said, John, just just talk. That's it. And and you just ministered him for two hours. Can you talk about you, Michelle, what when you're in those situations? Because we all have neighbors and friends and things that are going through horrible circumstances, but we don't always know how to love them well. Like, what advice would you give to us on how to love people well through the worst times in their life?

John Nuzzo 21:46

You know, I had someone ask me a similar question when it was somebody who um did Michelle and I damage. And and usually there's two sides to an equ to a qu an equation or a coin or a Wasn't even a conflict, to be honest with you. And but this really wasn't. This was just a person who had some issues, who developed some perceptions, and really, in a sense, put us on the periphery of their life. Uh and we cared deeply for them. And I respected their decision, but it actually did hurt. But this person heard their name come up several times, and they never heard me talk about that per se, but they knew what that person had done, and they knew it wasn't just untrue, it was blatantly untrue. And when I would talk about them, though they would hear me talk in ways you would think they were just incredible people. They were like, How could you talk that way about them? And I said, here's the question I ask. And this is how I do it. If that person stood before Jesus today, would they think they did the right thing and were telling the truth about what they said about me? And the answer is yes, in 90% of the cases. Now you always have people who are just wicked, okay? You can't fix that. Those you just have to get boundaries for. I said, I said, I I think they'd look at him and go, Lord, I I know I'm doing the right thing. So what more could you ask for? Well, how do you love people like that? I go, it does sound oversimplified. I actually love them. Come on. And when you actually love somebody, it covers, it doesn't excuse sin, doesn't excuse what they did. I I respected their boundary. I didn't try to push into their life. Um, I didn't like not having a relationship because I genuinely, genuinely love them. But sometimes our wounds are what we respond to rather than caring for people and loving them. Doesn't mean you become codependent. I'm not responsible for other people, but if you genuinely love somebody, it's very, very hard to stop caring.

Doug Smith 23:48

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 23:48

And then you treat them out of that basis of love because love just consumes, it consumes everything. And all you have to do is be a parent and understand that love just covers a multitude, boy.

Doug Smith 24:01

Yeah. You talked about a little bit earlier about restoration, and it takes a mature believer to restore someone. You've seen a lot of people fall. I'm sure you've walked a lot of people through failure. As you were just saying, you don't excuse the sin, but uh, I remember John Maxwell telling us that man, the body of Christ is horrible at restoring people. Uh how can we do a better job? We see people falling all the time, like you said, there's an entire podcast devoted to people's fall. Yeah. And I want to talk about judging people in a second, but yes, how can we restore leaders better?

John Nuzzo 24:28

Well, the first thing is that if you don't have direct responsibility for restoration, let me say this really politely. Shut up. It is none of your business. You are not God. He doesn't need you to go talk about somebody that you have no impact in their life other than harm. And you that are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, lest you yourself be tempted. And the Bible says, bear one another's burdens. And so spiritual people aren't people that can tell you everything everybody does wrong. That's actually called wicked. It's called divisive in the Bible. And when I there was a while back somebody did a, and forgive me for being, I don't even know, I don't know who did it, but the Mars Hill thing podcast, they were gonna, we're gonna unpack Mars Hill. It's like, I don't, I'd rather drink vomit than listen to three or four idiots talk about someone who's still alive with kids. We're gonna, here's when we're wrong. What do you know when we're wrong? Shut up. What did you were you responsible in that situation? That's different. Yeah. But still, then shut your mouth and help the people involved, the people still there. Whatever it was, and I still don't know what happened, because I don't want to know. If I'm asked to be invited into a space, or I'm forced into a space by proximity of it happening within my structure, then I'm gonna delve into it and I'm gonna I'm gonna deal with, do it the biblical way, all the things that the scripture requires of you when you when you work to restore someone first to God, not to the internet and Facebook, and and these whole ministries, they call them ministries. I I I would never use that term. I won't use her name, but some lady who all she does is find everything that goes wrong wrong, and they're not half the stuff is is embellished because I know some of the situations, and I think that's not even fully true. Yeah, but if they didn't do that, then they wouldn't be getting false information about them. Yeah, but you could shut up.

Doug Smith 26:25

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 26:26

It's not your business. And so this there's only one Holy Spirit, and I don't have that job.

Doug Smith 26:32

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 26:33

But when I do, then I do my role. And and and I respect choices. If you're working with someone and they lie to me and they and they're they're dishonest, and I I don't throw them out of my life. But I listen, I can't help you. We're done.

Doug Smith 26:50

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 26:51

I'm not against you, I wish you well. But I can I can't help you if you lie. And I'm not gonna waste time and effort. When you hit rock bottom and you finally want to really deal with your life, if it's somebody that could still have that relation, I said, my door's open to you, but my door, I can't waste my time, and I won't be lied to. So I'm not saying that you skirt it or pretend it's not wrongdoing. Things should be dealt with very honestly and appropriately, and there are sometimes limits to what that person could be doing. That's all what wisdom. But but Doug, the the amount of vomits that Christians drink in the name, I don't know what it's in the name of, but I never chug vomit.

Doug Smith 27:32

Yeah. Well, you said you talked about uh the the what is it what is the Olympics thing you called it? The victim of the Olympics. I feel like they've also made judging an Olympic sport.

John Nuzzo 27:41

It's an Olympic sport. Um but it's so easy to get enticed by that word. Like you said, you want to know what happens. You want to, you want to read all of the comments. And you know, not specifically related to this, but I know you share a story even in the book of there was a time where you were even being judgmental. Can you share the story when you were being judgmental of a ministry and how God dealt with your heart? Yeah, yeah. I was um there was a ministry that I I really had gained a lot from it. And they were going in a direction that I just thought, what are they doing?

Doug Smith 28:06

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 28:07

And and and I had friends that were deeply connected and knew this ministry, and and I I find myself on purpose bringing it up. Because looking back, I don't think my perception was wrong. Just being candid, to this, this was probably 25 years ago. I I wasn't wrong in what I was perceiving because it's proven out. But the Holy Spirit dealt with me and he said, the pride that you have, that you think you are called to go fix someone else's life and take your eyes away from the row in the garden that I've called you to. If you think you can take your eyes off of this row and go over here and fix a row you have nothing to do with, basically it was like, shut your mouth and pray for them. Unless I've called you to add value there, shut up. And and I I hear God talk to me like my father. It actually helps me.

Doug Smith 28:59

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 29:00

So I called my friends back because of probably six, seven friends, and and I'd initiate it.

Doug Smith 29:06

Wow.

John Nuzzo 29:06

And then we'd have an hour conversation. And and I called every one of them back. I was probably, I don't know, maybe 40 at the time. I called every one of them back and I apologized. I said, please forgive me. I the this group that we're referring to has been nothing but a benefit in my life. And and you know, they're great. Oh, John is not, you know. I said, no. I said, I apologize. Now I I don't know that I've been perfect since then, sure, but I I can't really think of a time that if I haven't been involved and responsible for something, I I try to just say nothing to I don't even talk to myself about it.

Doug Smith 29:46

That's awesome. Um, we were at breakfast last week sharing together with our dear friend Larry Betancourt, who's a spiritual father to me. Yeah. And and I shared a story about a time when I was a young Christian leader. I was partying on weekends, interning at the church, and and basically I got caught and I had to meet with Larry. And man, the very time I thought the call of God in my life was over and he was gonna kick me out of the church, I couldn't even look him in the eye. He gave me grace, smiled in the way that only Larry could, and said, Man, get back up again. And he qualified, you can't continue to lead. I'm so grateful for that Abraham voice in my life to give me grace when I needed it. Talking about restoration, I know there was a time in your life that you shared publicly about when you were a young leader, you were actually went through a divorce, and you had a similar thing that you felt like your call was over. Can you share that? And and what did an Abraham do in your life that changed everything for you?

John Nuzzo 30:32

I was 25, and the the person I was married to, you know, now that I'm 65, I look back and I realize this was a broken person. And and and honestly, they just decided they didn't want a Christian life. And we were actually in ministry together. And and uh God, nice way to say it, they started dating, if you know what I mean. Yeah, um, and and it devastated me. I mean, I devastated me. I don't even have language for it. And I just remember thinking, God, just let me, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll do whatever, just let me out of this life early. I mean, it was and and there's people listening to me right now, they that's the place they're in. Yeah. Whether it's through their own decisions or the person that they were with. As I look back, I I give her credit that she was honest. And when she was approached by the people in my life, she said, Look, I just don't want this life anymore. I I there's nothing that I can, there's nothing he can change other than stop living this way and start living the way I'm living. But I won't live this way anymore. And um and and I give her total credit for not, she could have even made it harder. But back then, if a minister was divorced, you were done. It didn't matter if it was biblical, the ground, it none of that mattered. It was that you're you're damaged goods now. And it it's the only difference between today and then is there was no internet. My generation wasn't any better at it. We just didn't have the mechanism to to take filth and spread it in the name of Jesus. And and and people immediately perceive you differently. And then you perceive that people perceive you differently, which is the worst. And uh, but there was uh uh I in the book I go into so much more detail, but yeah, uh Gino DiMarco, um, who is the one that rescued me in my ordination uh Inquisition, and that's he just remarkable because there really are things that the Abraham generation can do, and there are there are things the Isaac generation can do to be accelerated. And but anyway, Gino calls my phone with this the ministry headquarters was a file cabinet in my parents' basement, okay? And he leaves a message that he wants me to come speak for him. My mom, I'm on the road speaking in churches. This is you know a little bit down the road. And I said, Mom, Gino must not know what happened. I said, uh, I'll I'll tell him I'll come see him when I get home. But would you call him and just tell him what happened? And uh and you know, he doesn't want me to come. And uh so she calls him, and then Gino tells her, and this is before cell phones, you had to do everything, collect calls, or I mean, listen, I was sleeping in my car porch. Okay, so I'm but on the road, you could you could you you could call on a credit card and it would go on your phone bill anyway. It was a long, but it cost me. So I called Gino and I said, Gino, you don't want me to come. I love this man. He's in heaven now, Gino said though. Because I know what happened. He goes, I know the whole story. He says, When do you think people are gonna help you? When you're up, when you're down, he said, Come and speak for me. Now he had nothing to gain. And that day, having me into his church could have done nothing but cost him. I said, Gino, this people may not like that I come. He goes, What do I care what people think? He goes, I know the truth, and I'm gonna do what's right.

Doug Smith 34:09

Come on.

John Nuzzo 34:09

He goes, people don't like it. What do I care? And I wish you could, oh, he's in heaven now. He'd be, oh, I'd give anything to watch you do an interview with Gino DeMarco on a podcast.

Doug Smith 34:18

I love that.

John Nuzzo 34:20

He was a little bit heavier and he'd he'd talk like, oh my gosh, I love that man.

Doug Smith 34:24

That's awesome.

John Nuzzo 34:25

But Gino, I don't know how to explain it. It wasn't hours and hours and hours. It was someone who looked at me and said, I don't care what anyone thinks, you're not done. You're not done. Now you come and speak for me. And I don't know, it it was a it was a it felt like a relaunch into potential that I thought was gone. And uh and because a father didn't let what it could have cost him. Here's what I can tell you if you're gonna help people, it'll cost you. People will take advantage of you. Um maybe not even intentionally. You're gonna lose. You you're a dad. When's the last time your kids did anything for you? Other than the love you feel.

Doug Smith 35:12

Right, right.

John Nuzzo 35:12

When's the last time they said, Dad, we've gotten together, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're all pitching into the mortgage system. Yeah, no, they don't do squat except demand, eat, and you got young young enough, you're still having stuff come out and get a wipe, right? Yeah, so so but fathers and mothers don't think in terms of of what you give them. They're always thinking about your future. And and that's why that's the Bible says you have very few fathers. You have old people, but you don't always have fathers and mothers spiritually.

Doug Smith 35:43

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 35:44

And and so he he accelerated my life because he entered into my world intentionally. Fathers have to be the initiators. Your kids can't initiate anything with you, yeah. They have no power. But Gino went into my broken place on purpose. It was all risk to him, no reward. Except when I was speaking at Gino's church, I was traveling in churches that averaged 70 to 100 people, which are just wonderful. Some of my greatest friends are from those churches, and and they some of them never got larger. That so don't misinterpret that. Yeah. But he didn't know that I would pastor a church that in these 32 years, 25,000 plus people have been born again in church.

Doug Smith 36:27

Wow.

John Nuzzo 36:28

And but but he's in heaven now, and every bit of fruit in my life will abound to his account eternally.

Doug Smith 36:34

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 36:35

And and there's so many. I gosh, if you're from the Pittsburgh area in Northway, yeah. I mean, gosh, just look at Northway. Their campus pastor, and now Dave D'Angelo, their lead pastor, both came out of Geno.

Doug Smith 36:46

Yeah, yeah.

John Nuzzo 36:47

And the list goes on and on and on.

Doug Smith 36:48

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 36:49

Fathers do a lot more in their influence than they do in their own lives.

Doug Smith 36:56

Yeah. I'm going to talk to you about what do you do to accelerate others or what do you look for? I I wrote, you've been an Abraham to me for over two decades. And I want to publicly thank you and honor you and Michelle. But I just wrote like a small bullet point list that could have gone on forever, but I didn't want to, you know, go on forever. But here's just a few things that you guys have done for me over the past 20 years. You've spent time investing in me. You've prayed for me. You at one point, when I was a young leader, paid off health debt for me that I had no way of paying off. Uh, I had collectors coming after me, was scared to death. You hired me, which that alone was wild. But uh, you gave me grace when I made mistakes, what could have cost me my job. You've modeled for me what a godly leader, family, and father look like. You've put me in rooms that I could have never been in on my own. It's in the book, but lunch with Dr. Henry Cloud. Keith Moore, I still remember the first time meeting him with Sean. Uh, John Maxwell, I'll never forget the first time I think you met John. You could have easily had him do a video for the church, et cetera. Instead, you had him record a personal video with you to send to me, basically just to acknowledge me and the impact he's had. I still watch that probably once a month. And uh just thank you. You helped me in the darkest time of my life being there for me. And again, just on the proximity level, you know, when I went through a dark season, I called a mental breakdown. I don't know if it was exactly that, but hard season. And listen, I've read all kinds of books, I listened to all kinds of podcasts, but the proximity, I had one meeting with you, and there was multiple things, but I'll never forget this revelation you gave me, just being in proximity and knowing me. You said, Doug, you know, when you were a teenager, you basically watched your mom die slowly over time, and you medicated your pain through drugs and alcohol. Then you got saved, which was great, but then you started medicating your pain through performance. And that was like the nail on the head of what had gotten me into the place where I was. And that changed everything for me. And you asked, Doug, what does healthy look like in this season? And I've been asking that question ever since. But had I not had proximity with you as a Abraham in my life, I may have not gotten out of that season. And then, you know, we had a dream with L3B Leadership to have a conference and you've invested in that every year. I could go on and on and on, but I'm just one Isaac that you've invested into and accelerated. When if Abrahams are listening to this, when people come before them, whether it's through a coffee meeting or whatever, what's your thought process? Like, what are you thinking on how to add value and accelerate my life when you're meeting with them? And what could Abrahams be doing?

John Nuzzo 39:09

Is I think you first have to determine what you're not supposed to do. Because there's a presumption of leadership that comes when you've led for gener for a generation or for decades. Is you think you're always going to lead. And that's where this really the whole story began with this, the clarity of it for me in 2018, when I was at a group with ministers and we were worshiping, and the Holy Spirit spoke to me in one of those amazing times that don't happen all the time. And and I knew it was God speaking to my heart. And he said, I'm going to bring new wine out of you. I was like, wow. I said, and it was transformative, and I was stuck in that moment. And knowing the biblical terminology of wineskins and wine, I said, Well, Lord, what's the wine skin? And nothing for two years. About two years in, really at the onset of the pandemic, I'm just praying again. And I didn't do this every day, but really regularly. I said, Lord, what's that wineskin? Because I know, because a wineskin's just a distributor, it's not a storage device. It can be used as wine, but primarily it's it's like a bottle, you know, it's a distributor. Yeah. That's all it is. And and so I said, Lord, what's what's the wine skin? And another one of those seasons where maybe for those listening that help them to understand this, when God speaks to your heart, uh, and if you have a prayer life, this will happen to you. It's it can at times feel like someone puts seven, eight, nine paragraphs in you in a moment and it's just there. And it's the most wonderful thing in the world to have that kind of intimacy with God. And I don't want to give the impression that happens, you know, every other weekend, but when it happens, it's so sacred. And here's what he said to me he said, Don't ask me about the new wineskin, I won't tell you. Your generation built their wineskin or the distributor of the gospel, and it's old and ready to be thrown away. I was like, okay. But I still don't, what do I do with the new wine? And this is what was so precious to me. He said, if you humble yourself, I'll permit you to take your aged wine and pour it into a new wineskin that you won't build. And when you do that, you'll accelerate them. And so what I look to do in this season of my life, and what every Abraham has to understand, and and this is the the church is the starting line, not the finish line. This book is not about church, it's it's about the finish line of every Abraham accelerating an Isaac. And how do I do that? How do I actually find an Isaac or an Isaacet?

Doug Smith 41:40

Yeah, yeah.

John Nuzzo 41:41

This is for men and women. I'm just using the terms in scripture of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. How do I find that person? How do I what do I do to accelerate them? And where I realized that every Abraham enters into a season where the str the wineskin of your generation, the way you did what you did, is no longer relevant. It could now the wisdom behind it is priceless. But he dealt with me, he said, don't even think about it, don't touch it in thought like it's none of your business. In other words, things are going to start happening around me that weren't my preferences. Things that I I would have never done or initiated because I would have thought there was a right or wrong to them rather than just a preference. So but here's what I would say to any Abraham. And let me take you from what people would consider when I say lowest, I don't mean value, but culturally to the highest in the culture. A single mom would be considered at risk in our culture. That's fair. But let's say you're a single mom that you raised your kids, whether you got married and it worked out, or it even didn't. Maybe you've had a couple bad marriages and uh there was abuse involved. Whatever it doesn't matter. What matters to you, but the for the context. And you're in your 50s, late 50s, 60s, 70s. What would you wish you could go back and tell your 25-year-old self? This is the this is the move of God that that is happening right now on the earth. Malachi, that prophecy, said God is going to turn in the last days the hearts of the fathers and mothers to the children, and the children to the parents. And if it doesn't happen, the earth will be destroyed. And so Jesus said a house divided will fail, will will collapse, will come to desolation or decline. So a house united accelerates. God defined himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So he calls himself the God of three generations at one time. The church has made him the God of Abraham, then the God of Isaac, and then the God of Jacob. That's why you can go to any town in America and find beautiful old church buildings that are empty or turned into apartments or bars or torn down for the land. Or they have 70, 80, 90 year olds waiting to die singing songs from the 1800s. Nothing wrong with those songs. They're meaningful to them. But when those buildings are built, do you think they ever dream? That it would be filled with people waiting to die. And the only way you get a kid in that building is if you bring a photograph. They didn't do that on purpose. And that's where, as an Abraham, you get to pour your aged wine into a new wineskin. But here's the thing, here's what you don't give them. You don't give them direction. You don't tell them, this is what you have to do, and this is what you have to do, and this is what you shouldn't do, and this is what you should do. What you should be doing is saying, what is what do you see in front of you? How can I take you into my experience and not my honestly, not my successes? Those are much less impacting in my life than my failures and my sorrows. How can I help you avoid my pain? So that what if a single mom, that's just she's 60, uh, but her life's okay now. They even are doing okay. She's married, and they they they're doing okay even financially. What would it look like if she said, I'm gonna find a single mom in my church? I'm gonna I'm gonna find her. I'm not gonna have her find me because she does she's too busy to find you. And she's barely getting through that door if you can come at all. And maybe didn't have the gas money to get there. And you're talking to her, and you're, oh honey, you you yeah, I've got three kids and I'm working jobs and oh God, we're just I'm just so glad I'm here. Kids are in their class. I try to stay awake through the service, but oh god, it's the first time I sat down, right? Yeah, yeah, and she says this honey, can I help you? Come on. Yeah, thank you. No, I mean, can I help you? Oh, yeah. Can I take you to coffee? Yeah, and and and just spend a few hours with you. Well, I just don't Do you have a babysitter? Well, not really. I I can't afford one. Do anybody you trust enough to have a babysitter to watch your kids? Oh, yeah. I said, um, can you arrange that and I'll pay for it? And I'll come pick you up and we'll go sit down, we'll have coffee for three hours. Here's what I want to do. I want to tell you the three best things I did when I was in your place, and the three things, oh Jesus, I'd do anything to do over. Would that help you? Now imagine if what initially would be a mentor mentored. What if that person became a mother to that woman? You know, the apostle Paul said something interesting in scripture. She was a mother to me. She was like, what does that mean? It means he didn't have one. Paul was his family pushed him away. And he and he specifically, what if that woman mothers her? What if she says, Money, why don't you guys come over to our place for Thanksgiving? Bring the kids. And and then you look and you go, Christmas is coming. They can't afford Christmas. Oh, we're gonna do Christmas this year. And instead of buying stupid stuff for each other that you don't want or need, you go, let's load them up. Yeah. And you you give them a Christmas. Now imagine if you did that and then accelerated her into her purpose, helped her get educated, spend a little bit of your money, because if they don't have your money, they don't have your heart.

Doug Smith 47:01

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 47:02

Where your treasure is, your heart is also. How much money do you put in your kids?

Doug Smith 47:06

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 47:08

I'm still paying that bill, okay? And because that you you love them. You don't have to it it it's everything you do. What if a single mom did that? Now I don't care if you are at the lowest place in society, you can accelerate another person. You could change their entire, not just her life, you could change generations. And they will tell stories about you when you're long dead.

Doug Smith 47:33

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 47:33

And that's, you know, can I take you to another area with David and Solomon?

Doug Smith 47:39

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 47:39

God gave David the plan for the temple, right?

Speaker 5 47:42

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 47:43

And David had the entire plan in front of him. And then God said, you can't build it for a variety of reasons. And then, now if that's our generation in the past, the way church has been, we just throw the plan away. When we started victory, I thought everything God showed me would happen in my lifetime. It was a presumption.

Doug Smith 48:00

Wow.

John Nuzzo 48:00

It's like, well, of course, I guess it'll just happen in my lifetime, but it didn't. Because God does nothing in one generation.

Doug Smith 48:06

Wow.

John Nuzzo 48:07

He's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So he said, I'm going to do it through Solomon. So he gives Solomon the plan, then he gives him a billion dollars. Then he gathered all of his leaders in his generation, and they raised money and they built the temple. They accelerated Solomon. Solomon, the Bible, says he added to it. You know, it took 15 years or so to build the temple once it was starting to be constructed. How long it would have taken if he had to come up with the money himself? They accelerated it. And most of the people who paid to build it never sat in it. David abdicated the throne before he died. Now, I may be wrong, but to my understanding of scripture, and I've done my best research, doesn't mean I'm right, is that no other king of Israel abdicated the throne prior to their death.

Doug Smith 48:53

Wow.

John Nuzzo 48:53

He stepped away from leadership to accelerate. And he accelerated his son. Here's something the Holy Spirit said to me. I do a morning prayer meeting, typically four days a week, uh, with a group of people. And um, and and if there's anything I'd encourage leaders to do is pray. I wish I'd have done that earlier in my life. Just had a consistent way to pray with a group of people that over over tomorrows. And in this case, it's the tomorrows of other people, not my own. And I wish I'd have done that more. And that that had been a habit like it is now. But here's something the Holy Spirit said to me in one of those times of prayer. This is in the last few weeks. If you go to Israel today, it's called it's not called David's Temple, it's called Solomon's Temple. Well, look, David had the plan and he paid for it. It's generation. Throw the dude a bone, right? Name it. Name it after David. Good Lord. But it's named after Solomon. Here's what the Holy Spirit said to me if the church you founded 10 years from now is known about its from its founding, then you failed. Wow. Your generation needs to decrease, and then the next generation needs to build upon it, and it needs to be known for its impact in its generation. And then they become the Abraham's, and then it happens again. But in the church, churches like the one I pastored are founded, are typically one-generation churches. And all they ever rehearse are the stories of the past. God basically saying to me, this needs to be Solomon's temple, not David's. Everything you did needs to disappear. Because none of it's mine anyway. Is that what you did and the sacrifices you and your generation made, those are wonderful. And there's an eternity to be rewarded. But your goal is to accelerate the next generation. I want this to be known for the next generation's work, not what not how it started. And that's God's will. And if Abraham's will get that, there'll be a joy they'll live with, Doug, that they they that's inescapable.

Doug Smith 51:05

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I heard you say two things there that I loved. Um, one, Ed Milet has this quote, he said, We're most equipped to reach the person we used to be. Yes. And so anyone's capable of being an Abraham or Abraham at whatever you want to call it. But but basically look for your story and reach the people that you used to be. And there'll be an endless harvest of people that you can reach. Because we're we're growing up in a generation that there's, I mean, millions upon millions of spiritual orphans that need mothered and fathered.

John Nuzzo 51:30

Yes.

Doug Smith 51:30

And if you're on the Isaac side, I always share that quote from Henry Cloud that to reach full maturity, you need mothering and fathering. Yes. And it often doesn't come biologically. So find it. And so if you're an Isaac, pursue this. It doesn't mean you're going to get a meeting. And don't put people on a platform as the only people that can father and mother you. I feel I feel like in today's culture we get enamored by people who have influence. I can name probably 30 spiritual moms who mothered me at victory, who came into my life when we're mothered me. No one will ever know their name. They don't have platforms, but man, did they help mature me into the man I am today? And I'm forever grateful for that. So give back. Um, I want to take a little bit of a turn too. I talked about the Isaacs and not being mentored, or not just being mentored by people five you know minutes uh older than us. We're we're in a peer group that you know I lead, I call it the pasture mine group. I say that every leader needs someone where they're fully known, loved, and challenged. Yes. And you know, we're a group of Isaacs who are committed basically to fulfilling, like we want to be part of the 2%. We're committed to seeing each other through, to be 65 and locking arms still and seeing what and just handing it off to the next generation for us. You were also in an Isaac group.

John Nuzzo 52:35

I don't know if you'd consider it an Abraham group with Jay, but Jay was he would Jay Passament, founder of Northway Christian Community Church here in Wexford, Pennsylvania. Jay uh was the the Abraham. Okay, but he wouldn't accept that position. He called us his peers. Yeah. I was curious, yeah. Yeah, he wasn't though. He didn't, he was humble, and I think he believed that. Yeah, but he was wrong.

Doug Smith 52:59

But the people in that group, uh essentially, even if I mean, take Jay aside, you're all Isaacs, and I don't know who all was in the group, but the ones I know about still going to the finish line, still being used in magnificent ways. Can you just talk about the power that that group had even in your early days of ministry?

John Nuzzo 53:14

Jay called me. I didn't even know that he knew I started the church. And and and if you're from the Pittsburgh area, Jay Passivant is iconic.

Doug Smith 53:23

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 53:24

Um if he wasn't called to ministry, I'm convinced he probably would have been the governor of the state or senator. I think he could have gone. There's no political office that man couldn't have held with his intelligence and his diplomatic skills and his wisdom. He was unlimited, or he would have been the CEO of a company. Um and he comes from quite a heritage of passivants. His great-great-grandfather, passivant hospitals. Yeah, yeah. And started Teal College. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's remarkable. And so he calls me, and and it's Jay Passivant, and I was like, oh crap, what did I do? I'm serious, man. I'm like, oh God. He goes, John that meet with much of us pastors get together. Would you like to be a part of it? I was like, yeah. So I started coming, and and it was remarkable. I've got so many of my friends, uh, and a lot of guys came in and out of the Pittsburgh area, but a lot of us were there for 20-some years together.

Doug Smith 54:20

It's amazing.

John Nuzzo 54:21

And uh Ralph Fogle and Jeff Leek, Chris Marshall, uh, and others, and it was wonderful. We could just, we we met during the school year, once a month on a Wednesday. We did it for over 20 years. And uh these are men that we just there's a bond. And and I would go and uh and I'll tell you, I'll tell you one story about it. I was in one of the I had a a person who was let's just say um deep psychological problems, stalking me and crazy stuff. I mean crazy stuff. And it started making up rumors about me that were not pleasant. This person was very disturbed, but people don't know that. So I'm just like ticked. Like, I'm wanting to go Italian on this person, like you know, calling, I got cousins in Detroit. You can make this go away, you know. I'm I'm livid because it's not even like not if it's untrue, it's crazy untrue. This person just was mentally just imbalanced. So I'm telling these guys this, and and then one of the guys looks at me and he said, uh, hey, uh, you know that Bible thing? I go, yeah. He goes, You you want to do that part? I go, yeah, what? He goes, What did Jesus say to do when men speak all manner of evil against you? I said, Well, shut up.

Doug Smith 55:40

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 55:41

Rejoice. Yeah. So when's the last time you prayed and rejoiced over the privilege of suffering shame for his name? I went, shut up. You know, but but that kind of accountability, but not harsh. And Jay just, I the stories of the ways he helped me were just Yeah, my favorite is the Christmas.

Doug Smith 56:02

What are you doing for Christmas? Is that yeah?

John Nuzzo 56:04

Yeah, nothing. Yeah, what do you guys do at Christmas at Victory? Nothing. Well, first you started with the fall kickoff. I go, what's a fall kickoff? He goes, you know, when people come back from the summer, you reinitiate everybody. I said, Do they leave in the summer? He because he always thought I was being self-deprecated.

Doug Smith 56:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Nuzzo 56:21

And he looked at me and he goes, John, you you really don't know, do you? I went, Jay, every time he'd ask me, John, what do you think? I go, I never do. I don't know. What do you tell me what you think? He goes, that's not what this is for. I go, it is for me.

Doug Smith 56:34

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 56:34

You know, and he said, Well, tell me, he's trying to redeem me. Well, tell me what you do at Christmas. I go, nothing. He goes, what do you mean? I go, nothing. He goes, don't you believe in Christmas? Because some people don't. Yeah, yeah. I went, no, I believe in Christmas. I just don't care about it. He said, like, nothing? I go, I don't know. Might be in the middle of a 12-week series. I'm not going to ruin it with Christmas. If it falls on a Christmas Day or something, I'd go, Merry Christmas. He's still trying to redeem. He goes, what about Easter? I go, nothing. He goes, do you do a message about the resurrection? I go, no? Am I supposed to? He's like, and I could see the look in his eyes, like, oh, he really is clueless.

Doug Smith 57:14

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 57:14

But he didn't make me feel like an idiot. He fathered me and he would give me, he gave me great advice, but he did it in a way that was gentle enough that I didn't leave going, God, how just just shoot me. Someone just take me in the woods and shoot me. Yeah. And and he accelerated me. And when he passed a sudden, I picked up my phone to text him. Oh God, Jay passed me. And I'm texting Jay about his death. And um, and then when Jeff Lee passed away, I I went, I don't know why. Jay's been gone for years. And I and I went to, I'm thinking, I gotta tell Jay. I gotta talk to Jay, and he wasn't they're not here. And uh that's why I I tell guys in that are the in the Isaac generation your friendships are so important. Fight for them.

Doug Smith 58:10

Yes.

John Nuzzo 58:11

Fight for with everything you have, fight for them. Go do whatever you need because those are things that will carry you. There's no way I survive what I'm doing in ministry if I didn't have friends. Yes. When I hit rock bottom in my life and things that I never thought could happen or plan to happen happen around you. And and you and your legs get taken out from under you.

Doug Smith 58:33

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 58:34

If you don't have someone to prop you up that loves you, yeah, that will fight for you, uh, I don't I don't think you'll make it.

Doug Smith 58:41

Well, yeah, I mean, we started our group six years ago. It's so interesting. Uh, you know, all ministry leaders, pastors, and uh after the first meeting, within the first year, every single one of them coming to me individually crying and just saying, I didn't know how much I needed this. Yeah. And I said, Well, what did you need? And the answer was the same friendship, friendship. And it was interesting to me within a city. Several of them said, coming to the first meeting, I already was on my way out. I was thinking, I know what this person thinks, judging each other. Yep. And I said, I'm not gonna trust anyone. Well, when did that end? They said, by the end of the first meeting. And uh what I'm hearing you say is without your group, you wouldn't be part of the two percent in here. And that's why I encourage leaders all the time, you have to do this. And on the the Abraham side, when Jeff Leak died, uh, I immediately reached out to you and I said, Can we meet like several times a year? Like I just before you go, whenever that is, and hopefully it's many, many years from now, I want to extract absolutely everything I can from you and your generation, your fatherhood. And so I would encourage leaders, Isaacs, if they're spiritual fathers and mothers in your city that are still alive, and man, do everything you can to extract because they're here. And one thing I love about you, even the growth that has taken place from the what's a fall kickoff days to where you are now, you've always been hungry for growth and always willing to do whatever it takes to keep growing. And you still put yourself in circles, uh, which I love. And I don't know if you'd consider it him Abraham, but God's opened up a door for you to have influence with John Maxwell.

John Nuzzo 1:00:08

Yeah, he's Abraham on steroids.

Doug Smith 1:00:10

Yes. So I would love to hear. Obviously, John is probably out, you know, as far as people I don't know, the most influential people in my person in my life. What is what is being in proximity to John taught you in the few years you've had proximity with him?

John Nuzzo 1:00:23

One is that that if you'll follow God till you're dead, your most productive and joyful days are as you age.

Doug Smith 1:00:33

Wow.

John Nuzzo 1:00:34

So I was on a flight with John to Paraguay, and there were, I think, 11 of us on the trip, and most of them were business men and women. And I think there were three of us that were pastors, but I forget. And we're and I don't have time to go into what John does, but he may be the greatest evangelist in our generation. I mean, he shakes nations through the leadership down. It's it's just it would take too long, but it's it's worth if you're watching this podcast to learn about it. Um but so on the six-hour flight down and back, we were on a Gulf Stream, um, he just sat there and talked to us for six hours. I don't mean, I'm thinking like, you know, eventually, and John's 74 at the time, eventually you're gonna kind of zone someone out. And he was completely engaged for six hours. And we would go do these meetings with him. He's meeting with the Secretary of Education, the president had COVID, and we were gonna go meet with him. And it was just we do the meetings and he'd debrief us and tell us why he did what he did. And and and we're flying back. And he tells the guys, and these are the business guys, this is awesome. He goes, and one of the guys, I forget, had a villa somewhere in Europe. He said, What are you doing? He said, When's the last time you were there? A couple years. What do you what's it cost you a year to run it? About a hundred grand. Doesn't even live in it. He goes, What are you doing? You know you're gonna die someday. Sell that stupid thing and put the money somewhere that matters. Wow. And and he told these other guys, these are very, very successful men and women. He said, if I find out you wasted your life on a stupid golf course, he goes from 64 to 74. I produced more in the last 10 years than my entire life combined.

Doug Smith 1:02:15

Wow.

John Nuzzo 1:02:16

Times 20.

Doug Smith 1:02:17

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:02:17

And he said, and I'm living in this incredible place of joy. He goes, that's what God's called you to do. Don't stop doing business. Keep because, well, I don't need any more money. Then give it away.

Doug Smith 1:02:28

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:02:28

What are you doing? And then his people skills. I'll never, and I kind of go into it in the book of how proximity matters, I'll never, ever have John's people skills, ever. Uh, because it's an amazing gift. But watching him do it, it's mesmerizing. You've had lunch with him.

Doug Smith 1:02:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:02:50

You would have thought you're the only person he ever met in his life. Yeah. And it's not a game. He's drilled into you, no distractions. And on my leadership podcast, I interviewed John and I asked him about that. I said, You've got to explain that to me. And he gives you some of the principles behind it. But watching him do it, it I I remember leaving his presence on that trip thinking, okay, and I'm now I treat people differently. I'm engaged, I engage differently. Not because he taught something, but I caught something. Yeah.

Doug Smith 1:03:23

What does that look like for you? I'm just curious.

John Nuzzo 1:03:25

It it's that when I'm with people, I that I'm actually engaged at a deeper, deeper level of what is what do they really need? What is their hunger? What is their heart? What is your future? What do you want to do with your life? Instead of just a conversation, I'm delving into their soul.

Doug Smith 1:03:42

Yeah, that's good.

John Nuzzo 1:03:43

And once you delve into someone's soul, it's it's incredible what can what can occur. Two sentences can change someone's the trajectory of their whole life. Yep. It really can. If you love them, if you want to father people.

Doug Smith 1:03:58

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:03:58

And so it's been uh, you know, and I'm not John's close to probably at least six or seven thousand people. And uh, and I I mean I I don't I don't say that facetiously, it's just it's just you feel like he knows you so well.

Doug Smith 1:04:13

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:04:13

And it's not like I've spent days and days with John. It's just, but when you're with him, and the in the connection is so tangible that, you know, I I don't call him. I mean, have his number, but you know, I'm like, hey, John, how you I don't bother him, you know, that kind of stuff. But if I was really, really, really in a place, I still wouldn't call him. I'd call, I'd call Mark and ask Mark, hey Mark, is there any way that I don't want to bother John? But you know, which I probably would ask Mark to ask him.

Doug Smith 1:04:41

Yeah, when with John talking about father, I mean he always shares, he hit the the jackpot when it came to having a father. And his dad made a huge impact on his life. And he shared at the Global Leadership Summit. I just thought this was funny. When his dad was dying, he knew it was his last days, and so he cleared his dad's hospital room, basically said, Hey, I need some time with my dad. And he said, for five hours, I taught my dad or shared with my dad 29 lessons that he taught me in life and leadership that allowed me to be who I am today. And I'm just thinking, man, that's the way to go. And you'll appreciate this because you know my father-in-law. So I get home, I'm all excited. I'm like, Mike, this is what John did with his father-in-law. And Mike looks at me and goes, five hours. He goes, Don't do that to me for five hours. He goes, five minutes is fine. Just tell me I made a difference, you know. So we're just laughing about that. Um, as we close up the interview, any I have one more question for you, but is there anything else that you want to share? Just open-ended, or any questions I didn't ask that you'd like to answer.

John Nuzzo 1:05:32

You know, what what I would encourage people to get the book and to get to the last two chapters. Yeah. Because it's the how to. Whether you're a single mom or an entrepreneur, there is a way to to to accelerate the next generation. And if you're in the emerging generation, there's a way to be accelerated, not just towards success, but apart away from pain. One pothole of pain you can miss can save you 10 years. It can save a marriage. It can save your heart. And and some things you can't avoid in life, okay? I mean, life's life, man. It's hard enough. It's like life can be chewing through cement. But but there's a whole lot of cement you can avoid and save some teeth.

Doug Smith 1:06:14

Yeah.

John Nuzzo 1:06:15

And so I would just encourage where you wherever you find yourself in this spectrum of the generations, let God turn your heart to the next generation or to the emerging generation. And and watch how accelerating others will be the greatest joy of your life.

Doug Smith 1:06:30

Yeah. My last question would be obviously we talked about Jeff Leak. We were just both at his memorial service. For me, it was the most impactful memorial service I've ever been to in my life. It's remarkable. I mean, I walked away. But I mean you hosted it here at Victory, and I just looked around a room full of almost 2,400 people here to celebrate this guy's life and just seeing the impact he made. And I couldn't help but think I'm just like, one day we're gonna do this for you. And um, I it just made me reflect on everything you've meant to me. And I'm just curious, and your memorial service, if you could leave three truths to people, the next generation, out of everything you've learned in your life, what would those three truths be?

John Nuzzo 1:07:02

I think the maybe the primary one was live your life as a seed, not as a um a tree-bearing plant or a tr a tree that bears fruit, but a seed that grows other trees and live through other people. They say you shouldn't live vicariously through others. I understand what that means in the sense that you shouldn't watch somebody do something and live vicariously through them. But there comes a point in the way you live your life that you can achieve something. And and the old adage is that you can put your your your ladder against this, you can climb the ladder against a building and find out you're on the wrong building. There's a lot of people that have built amazing things in their life, but they have no they have no seeds that have grown around them. And when I look at someone like say Steve Jobs, and this is all public, so I'm not when I look at the way his life went and his relationships were and the people who knew him best, he accomplished unimaginable things. So I'd be happy just to make all those accomplishments. Yeah, I I understand that. But how many more Steve Jobs could there be if he was a seed planter and not just a producer? And sometimes maybe people feel you can't be both, but I don't buy into it. Is live your life to produce in other people. But the people you're reproducing in won't bear fruit, maybe until you're dead. So you have to believe in people, you have to be willing to invest in people that other people give up on. Not being codependent, but you have to see potential in people when others don't. Because the one of the I'll leave you with this. The one of the last things the Holy Spirit said to me as I as I realized this was broader than my life. When I was like, he was talking to me about accelerating the next generation and decreasing and letting go of any mantle of leadership and throw away your wineskin, let them build a new one and don't touch it. He said, I'm calling you to trust me in others, the way others, the way others trusted me in you when you were young. Wow. And that spoke volumes to me.

Doug Smith 1:09:07

That's amazing. Well, thank you for being faithful and obedient in your Jacob season and your Isaac season and now in your Abraham season. It's impacted me and thousands and thousands of others. So thank you for living your life as a seed. Uh, I I don't I run into people every day who's been impacted by your life and ministry, and Michelle as well. So thank you so much. Love you. The book's The Acceleration Mandate. You can get it on Amazon anywhere else. We'll include links to everything in the show notes. So thanks. Look forward to doing this again.

John Nuzzo 1:09:28

Thanks, Doug. Love you.

Doug Smith 1:09:30

Hey Leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with John Nuzo. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. And again, I hope that you'll go out and get a copy of his book, The Acceleration Mandate. It's really gonna add a lot of value to your life. I also want to thank our sponsor, Indotion Marketing Solutions. They are the producers of this podcast. And if your organization has any marketing needs at all, I wholeheartedly recommend their services. You can learn more about them at endosha.com. That's a-n-d-o-ci-o.com. And as always, later, I like to end every episode with a quote. And today I'm gonna re-quote Pastor John's dad because I thought it was so funny. But he was just talking about parenting when Pastor John was young and said, Do I look like your friend boy? And as someone who's a dad to five kids, you know, I was just reminded that hey, if we actually parent our children well, then one day they will be our friends. But until then, they need us to be their parents. So that's gonna wrap up today's episode. I hope again it added value to your life. And always remember this, leaders, don't quit. Keep leading. The world desperately needs your leadership. I'll talk to you next episode.