2:23

And where we come from, what's the jetlag,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 2:25

we were rehearsing in LA, Tears for Fears. We were doing all these TV shows from one studio. So because of COVID, we were having to film off sites in one studio, where they've set change the set, we change our clothes and do its thing.

Keith Jopling: 2:44

Right. So multiple TV shows, same studio. Same studio. Weird, but quite convenient. Very convenient. And you've got the tipping point coming out. So this, I think as we speak, it's maybe a couple of weeks away. It's been a long time coming. How do you feel about it? Just anticipating its release?

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 3:05

I feel really good. I mean, obviously, it's it's very strange for the public when we come along and haven't put out an album for 17 years. Very strange indeed. But right now it feels excellent. It just feels excellent to to be communicating with people again, you feel immensely powerful. When you have new products that you absolutely love. promoting this, the tipping point album so far with Kurt has been a joy. Because we both are pretty sure pretty confident that we've done something of merit to the point where I mean, some people are saying it's the best album we've done now to be able to do that, at our age tells you something. Yes, we took a long time over it. It was wonderful to actually cherry pick the songs that we put on the album. But as I said earlier, we've been doing a bit of rehearsal in LA, and we quickly rehearse three of the new songs. We played them back to back with three old songs, and they stand up. And so all together, we're very happy.

Keith Jopling: 4:18

And the world is waiting for it. That's the thing with great anticipation. That's

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 4:22

what's strange with the record industry. And with the way culture evolves, it has a cyclical nature. I think we're sort of kind of Kate came back at the right time. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 4:35

I do. I think there's something in the water at the moment because there's something in the air isn't Yeah, there really is. And I'm in bands that have been around for a long, long time. And obviously we're going to talk about that in detail with you. But a lot of bands are sort of on top of their game, you know, and it's great to see. And I think you have timed it where you're coming back into the culture when you Your music is respected more than ever. And I know you took you by surprise a little bit when I was, you know, just doing a bit of research for this how you felt you'd been a little bit forgotten. But in the age of streaming, there's been a sort of gentle buildup of respect, obviously from other artists have covered a lot of Tears for Fears material. And so I think, yeah, you have somehow timed it right after 18 years. How do you manage that?

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 5:27

Music doesn't it's not always about making records. It's actually about making music. And you're right, yeah, we, we seem to become more popular when we disappear. And it's almost like absence makes the heart grow fonder, especially in when it comes to tears, for fears, and it's music. But, you know, as I was referring to earlier, the market is not always in your favor. And when we did the previous album, everybody loves a happy ending, we would, you know, we had some good opportunities, straight onto the a list and radio to we were doing major TVs in the States. But we would look at the sales figures the next day. And it looked like everyone had seen us been reminded of us gone to a record store and bought the greatest hits. So we weren't shifting new product. So we weren't really worried about putting out another album, we concentrated on playing live. And that's another. I think playing live seems to do more than just you connecting with the people in the auditorium of theater or arena, it does something more, it's almost like, the more you sing, the more you put a massive amount of energy into the ether. It's almost like there's another audience, you know, an audience of ghosts that you can't see, and through some miraculous means they seem to be spreading the word. I noticed a massive uptick in positivity. When we play live, and it seems to be coming from somewhere, then these opportunities fall at your feet word spread in America that we were a hot act again live. And we're playing on the same stages as a lot of younger bands. And we're giving them a run for their money. So the word spread. To the point where we did a major tour in 2017, we got invited to do this radio to live broadcast. Now we've been playing so much, so much for months and months and months. We went on and we kind of killed it. And again, everyone's going oh, wow, two spheres they can they can sing and play. And it was kind of exciting for them. Because I think live you have so much more of an edge than on your records or on in your videos. And it really got through to people. Then of course we haven't even touched on streaming streaming is maligned because of the terrible rates that they're paying artists. But something has emerged within streaming. And that is the super hit. So not just hits, like in the old days where we get to number one in the States, luckily, or, you know, top five in the UK, we're talking about songs that are played, God knows how many times a day to the point where you're approaching a billion plays of everybody wants to rule the world. And then through the process of digital media, there's a connection to all the artists that cover your music. So when someone listens to Weezer doing Everybody Wants to Rule the World, then it gets a link to our stuff. If someone listens to Patti Smith or Don Henley or Lord, it gets linked to our stuff that has changed people's perspective, if you see what I'm saying. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 9:08

absolutely. I mean, I think I read somewhere there's 140 covers of Everybody Wants to Rule the World on Spotify, which is amazing. I love the Lord version. Personally, I think

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 9:17

it's great. Yeah, killer.

Keith Jopling: 9:21

The art of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins. Many of the most listened to recordings of all time were created at Abbey Road Studios. Most of those recordings were first heard on Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers. It's a pleasure to have Bowers and Wilkins supporting our show. But back to live what you were saying. It's interesting because you know it can get contagious from there. I saw you on that tour in 2017. When you did the Royal Albert Hall. And what struck me is you You looked like you are really enjoying yourselves. I mean, you sounded great. You'd become road warriors by then but it really looked like you We're enjoying it. In fact, I think it was during woman in change. You had that incredible singer with you who was singing the Aleta Adams.

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 10:09

Was that Michael?

Keith Jopling: 10:10

I think it was Michael. Yeah, it was Michael, because that was the extraordinary thing is this man just came out your smile. I mean, you were just grinning like a Cheshire Cat was contagious throughout the audience. And I think that has made, it's made a difference. There's a weird symbiosis somehow between great live performance and streaming. And I don't think anyone's worked it out, but it's there. And on the tipping point, so, you know, I've read a lot about the making of it. And it's obviously been a long time coming, but it was a long time in the making as well. You were advised by your your then managers to kind of get together with a songwriting camp, and you gave that a go and wrote a an album of hits, and, and all of that, and that didn't work out. So just talk me through that process a little bit. And just try and add for fans who were expecting this, this record to come just what that might have added to the process. Well, the

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 11:07

fact is that it added two incredible songs. Actually, three, well, three, not that Kurt hates, I love you, but I'm lost. But we put that song out that we did. We wrote that with Bastille, the band Bastille put that out for the Greatest Hits record. There are songs on the tipping point, one called my demons, which is this crazy girl, aggressive electronic, electronica, there's a beautiful, beautiful song called Please be happy. Both of those songs were written with Sasha scopic. And Flo Reuter his programmer that was part of that process of writing songs. And then we were shoved in with or it was suggested that we work with do the whole thing again, in terms of maybe we need to remix the album, maybe make it a little bit more contemporary. Maybe we need to come up with something that's, you know, again, another search for a hit single. And we found ourselves in LA, riding with all kinds of people. And occasionally, this guy would come in and he would be what's called a top lining guy. So essentially, you're you've got people, whose specialities are like back in tracks. So you might be working with a backing track guy who's already prepared something for you. And that could be quite successful by demons that started off as a backing track. And you've got these people who specialize in in top line. So I'm sitting in the same room as someone who is not as successful as me. And it's supposed to be coming up with top lines. And then it becomes a little bit of a pissing contest. I'm pretty good. I have what I call musical Tourettes, you give me a sketch, and I'll riff on it. I'll come up with melodies or come up with the lyrics immediately. So then, like looking at us thinking, Whoa, these guys are good. It's like, well, then what? Why? Why are we doing this? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 13:10

bizarre. I mean, bizarre for you know, long time tears, for Fears fans to even try and imagine that scenario, where

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 13:18

you know, these things happen when you know, the people around you don't really trust you. I mean, even to this day, I remember sitting down with our ex manager in a restaurant in LA was at lunch, and I was trying, I was throwing every song and what do you think of this song? What do you think of that song? Because I was pretty sure that a lot of them were good enough. And he was batting it back. They're not, then they're not good enough. They're not good enough. They're not good enough, all with a fault. And I'm guessing it must be strange for him right now, to actually listen to this whole album and realize that it's a great piece of work. But it's a great piece of work, because we brought the whole project home. And Kurt was very instrumental in this and very adamant about what he didn't like. And he was completely, completely right. And that's a good thing about working in a duo. I think it's whoever is the most critical person is the one that makes you work a little bit harder. And that person on this, this album was cut. And through some miraculous process, I actually started listening to him. And once I saw where it was coming from, the whole process became a joy. New songs emerged. And as I said, we could cherry pick from the oldest stuff. We attempted about 30 songs in there still lying around somewhere. Well, I

Keith Jopling: 14:47

guess that process might have helped you because if you'd have come together as a duo, you know, after all that time apart again, maybe that would have been a daunting process, but you'd been through this A songwriter camp held together, you'd realize what was wrong with it. And as you say, you started listening to Kurt. So I guess when you've cleared everybody out of the room and just sat down and wrote as a duo back the way you did, when you made the hurting, that must have been a joy rather than an awkward process. You

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 15:18

can work with all these people who are talented, their current, the songwriters du jour, and then you sit down with your old buddy, was my suggestion to Kurt that I, you know, we don't even go back and work with our guitarist Charlton, who's CO produced this album, CO produced happy ending, that we actually just sit down the two of us, I was confident that something would emerge, you know, I felt that the wind was blowing in our favor. I kind of felt that the fates were aligning to sort of assist us in this process. And lo and behold, it took about half an hour of noodling before track one of the album, called no small thing came about. And, of course, the message in it is freedom is no small thing. It's about freedom of expression. Because certainly we were, you know, we were out of the prison of making hit singles, we were out of it, we were going back to just the pleasure of making music and the pleasure of being able to tap in your every inspiration. All the bands that we've loved growing up through to certainly, you know, through the 60s 70s, and into the 80s, we could do anything. I don't know where Kurt was, say this as well. I mean, we, we did, obviously lock down happened March 2020. So I was stuck in England couldn't go back to LA, but we were working remotely. And then I went to got got permission to go to the States 2020, September 2020. And we spent three months and week that they weren't even a rushed three months, it was it was allegedly three months to finish the whole thing.

Keith Jopling: 17:06

In the time between records, obviously, you know, it's a long time to soak up other influences on wondering what influences you both brought to the record. So once you've gone through the songwriting camp you're writing together. And then something like no small thing is a good example, because it's a beautifully understated opener. In fact, it's sort of a statement of simplicity. But there's a lot of great music that's flowed under under the bridge, since everybody loves a happy ending. I mean, are you influenced by anyone in that period?

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 17:41

Well, that's a good question. But a difficult one to, to answer. I went through, I'm not a big music listener to be able to be honest with you. And I guess that's the music that I was being exposed to. Post Happy Ending came from my son's far more into pop music and all kinds of things from Frank Ocean, to foster the people. And on and on. Yeah. So all of that kind of, it's soaked in. But I still think that this is evident that a lot of older artists say this, I think that you're always, you're always in awe of the artists that come before you, you know, you have this reverence that you'll you'll never be as good, you'll never achieve what they achieve. The cult status of the 60s artists is not something we will never achieve. And so I think always in the back of my mind, you know, we did this and started this season I've been competing with competing with the history of rock'n'roll.

Keith Jopling: 18:50

Well, I mean, you know, you're right there in the whole canon. You know, you've made three of the greatest pop albums ever made. So you've achieved it. Yeah, I do hope the tipping point is, is in addition to that, but it you know, it sounds like, in a way a natural progression from everybody loves a happy ending in terms of the sound, but just a stronger batch of songs. It's really great that you're confident about those songs. Yeah,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 19:16

I think the happy ending, happy ending, we were kind of having fun. The whole point of everybody loves a happy ending. And hence the title is Kurt and I are getting back together. After a nine year hiatus. I relocated my family Kurt was living in LA is still living in LA and I relocated my family. The boys were young enough to go to a new school. And we had we had this two and a half years in LA, which was an absolute joy. And I think we benefited from it as a family in terms of the health because LA if you can wait through the BS it's a very healthy lifestyle or it can be the blue skies. The school run under a blue sky. Yeah, the kids have been dropping the kids off getting up early was effortless. It was a joy. And you can kind of see that in the more pop aspects of happy ending. But what we didn't do that happy ending, I was cool, Happy Ending Seeds of Love, little brother. So it was kind of an economic version of the seeds of love. And it was cut, pick cut and me picking up where we left off. But it lacked the ambition and emotional honesty of the early records. And it's taken many, many years and lots of painful events for us to kind of bring ourselves in line with where we were in the hurting. And it's it's strange, because this album is the album where Kurt sings the most songs since the hurting. Yeah, no. Yeah. And so that's that's also interesting in terms of the balance of vocals, which people have come to know. Is there on this new album as well? Yeah, I

Keith Jopling: 21:12

think that's gonna be a good experience for people who've been listening to us since the hurting and, and big cheer, because going back all those years, I mean, I was a teenager listening to that stuff. And I thought Kurt was the frontman. You know, I thought he was the, you know, the pop star in the band. In fact, you know, it's really interesting, because I was listening to your interview, and then Kurt's interview on rocket motors. I thought it was both great fun, but you both were uncomfortable with the pop star thing. You thought Kurt was enjoying it, but he then said he wasn't? No because well,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 21:49

this is the problem, isn't it? I thought yeah, he was better at dealing with it. He had more give a fuck attitude that night. You see them saying? But he Yeah, I mean, he you know, he got into things that sort of pop stars Did you know he was affected? I would say he was affecting his ego a lot more than it was affected mine because he was that pop sigh was fronting eat sung so many of the hits. He'd fronted us, be in the backroom boy at that point in time, was absolutely perfect for me, because I could like, I couldn't absolutely hammer the music indulged to indulge myself, make sure the quality was there. And yeah, in in a sense, Kurt and I parted ways, in as much as our experience of the 80s was entirely different. And, you know, we got cut to the point where Kurt did all those things. He bought the big house. He bought a massive house, I loved the cliche, he lit you know, he was having parties, and all the things that that entailed. And then we made these a lot, which was a long process. And at this point in time, Kurt's life started to spiral out of control, as it often does, when you follow the wrong path. He said, I'm saying, yeah, and no, he wasn't enjoying it. He wasn't enjoying it at all. In the end, he had a massive change of lifestyle at the end of the 80s. So we went through a lot of he went through a lot of stuff at a good age. He realized what his priorities were, what his values were. He moved across the states, he met as the woman who's now still his wife, now, he changed his whole life. And he gave it you gave it all up. He said, I don't want to do this anymore. Because, you know, you had to discover, and he says this often, he had to try and find out who he was. We were kids. We were adolescents. And we were talking about Primal Scream off the channel of primal therapy. We wanted to change the world, you know. And then all of a sudden, you know, he lost himself. And that is, it's a horrible place to be.

Keith Jopling: 24:07

Keith here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you listen to the conversation. Between you, you achieved so much those first three albums, which were quite distinct from each other, but there was such a leap forward with each record, which is very rare these days. I mean, to some extent, that's how it was back then for you know, big talented bands. The police are Tears for Fears, they kind of went through that process. There's no parallel these days. It's, you know, I think artists generally, maybe it's, they're afraid to lose their audience or, you know, maybe They just working in narrower lanes. But the progression on those three albums was remarkable, which must have put quite a bit of pressure on you. Or I would have thought I mean, you know, we all know the seeds of love was a torturous process in the end, but it still created a timeless classic, not from the 80s. Really, when I when I listened to it now, I still still listen through to it. Now, if I play probably listen to seeds of love more than I did back at the time, and it doesn't sound like an 80s record. You know, it's sort of the 60s, the 70s the future, they're all in their summer

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 25:34

as artists, I mean, you know, I mean, you have no idea where, where this thing is gonna take you forever. Since I was a young kid, I wanted to be a pop star. In that sense. I wanted to be in the top of the pop sense. I would watch. I was religious about watching Top of the Pops, I would get the disco 45 songbook and I sing along to every song. There's a picture of me as a kid with the Aladdin Sane flash across my face. These guys were my heroes. But you have no idea what happens when you get there. Yeah. So when your dreams come true, and then it's just a reality. And we, we had a quick rise, a very quick rise to the point where we, we did what a lot of bands don't do. And we broke America. And we sold millions of albums. Then pop music splintered, it changed. There was an influx of again, like a bit like with the period with we were talking about earlier with this sort of professional songwriting crews, you had them stock Aiken, and Warren and back then who had this kind of hip factory. It changed the nature of pop music, very much to the point where it became a little bit more jolly, a bit came a little bit more throw away the kind of heaviness and doom and gloom aspects of the early 80s. disappeared, it all became a little bit more frothy, lighter, and I couldn't listen to Radio One anymore. I just wasn't interested in what wasn't giving me anything meaningful cultural. You know, that's, as I said, you know, as I said earlier, that's when I started to look for other influences. Look to the history of rock and roll to compete with the history of rock and roll who are the greats? And can we learn anything from them? Can we emulate them? Can we actually Nick their styles. And I think we did a bloody good job of it. In the process, you're making what I call the postmodern work, because you're altering the DNA of everything you've been listening to altering it, bringing it up to date, modifying it and turning it into a kind of higher art form, dare I say? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 27:54

I think that's what seeds of love was. And I think you're right, as you say, the second half of the 80s just wasn't the same. And I could see how, you know, having made a, a project like that with gone through that painful process of making it and it's sort of making, you know, a masterpiece. Where do you go from there when the charts are full of Stock Aitken Waterman,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 28:15

as far as I was concerned, you know, Seeds of Love was opulent, expensive, over the top, puffed up, bombastic. And what did I do next? I broke it down again. Yeah. Went all elemental, you know.

Keith Jopling: 28:32

Yeah. And I love that record. Actually, really? Do you know, it's your rock record in many ways?

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 28:37

That's right. Raul, and the Kings of Spain and around the Kings of Spain is a very, very rock record, rail on the Kings of Spain, written against the backdrop of grunge music. Yeah, of course. You know. I'd made an element where it had a new partner a guy called Alan Griffis immensely talented guy, and incredibly supportive person who then became the backroom boys and my leadership of circumstance. Yeah, so it's switched around. I was suddenly at the front in a big way, although had been kind of working towards that during the 80s, rightly or wrongly. Yeah, we, you know, elemental again, the music scene had changed hip hop was becoming the true force. So if you listen to elemental, they're virtually all of it. All of it is hip hop rhythms. plus hours is genius guitarist as well. So between the two of us is Keyword Planner symphysis experts and in you know, incredible atmospheres all the time. You know, we just did with virtually played everything the two of us. What was it like those years without courage? When you're in the do Oh, there are ego conflicts, unless there's some kind of unwritten contract. one of you needs to be the dominant one, that one of you needs to be the extrovert, one of you the introvert, if you have an unwritten contract like that, which Kurt and I have had in the past and probably have it again, then you don't get the ego conflicts that was happening to me in the, in the 80s, you know, going from adolescence started, you know, primal therapy, eventually in London, is you will see the growth of the ego. Because I would say that I was a bit slow with all that stuff. Some people are born with it. Some people are born psychologically sound psychically tough. I wasn't, throughout the 80s. Yeah, I mean, I became more and more confident. And I would say, I didn't actually become myself until I was around the age of 29. At that point in time, there was no room for anyone else. If you see them saying, yeah. And then that's when I started working with Al and he was he was this incredible unit of the power behind the phones. Then when I went out agreement here, I'm, you know, put on leather trousers, which I certainly can't get into, certainly can't get into any more. And I went around the world dancing, and singing, and having a grand old time. But it wasn't, you know, I went the way that the way that a lot of bands suffer is that music in the music market, the music scene changes. And, you know, we were so so strong in the 80s. It was work to our detriment in many other areas. Until now. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 31:41

and I guess with Elementor, and rolling the Kings of Spain that was kind of free, the independent artists wrote, so you still really were dependent on finding a label and playing the same game? Yeah, well, I

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 31:56

had, I mean, you know, it was it was still big money deals, in a sense of sort of revenge on the music industry, for all the sort of awful deals, signed in the early 80s. In the record industry, as opposed to them exploiting you.

Keith Jopling: 32:15

The art of longevity is a team effort. show is produced by the songs Abellio, that's me, with Project Manager. It's audio engineered and edited by audio culture. Our amazing cover up by the wonderful Mick Clark, and original music for the show, is by Andrew James Johnson. I was reading an interview, I think about the making of big chair, and I was really, I was almost amused by it because you were talking about the chain of command. And it was it felt like you were putting yourself and Kurt as the artists at the bottom,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 32:52

where you are, you are. I mean, that's, that's the way the industry works. It's a business, they're in the business of making money. The artists are the workers, they're literally on the factory floor. And they're expendable. And it's true. I mean, the the general philosophy for if you sign a record deal with a mainstream record company, they will give you three albums, and then a greatest hits. That's a 10 year cycle. And you've seen, even the biggest bands hit the wall at that point in time. And a lot of it isn't their creativity. Some of it is the market. But a lot of it is the messages that are coming from these companies that you've made millions for. I think they're over now. And it's an immense power trip for them. You know, because they've got all these guys who younger guys, and not really interested, they're going out finding new racks. And that's the revolving door. And there's nothing wrong with it. We had a great spell and we still

Keith Jopling: 33:56

are and you got those big hits out of it. I guess when that's over, and you're kind of on that roller coaster ride down the way then at least you've got those big

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 34:07

hits. Oh, yeah, we were made for life. So I'm not arguing. And

Keith Jopling: 34:12

then did you live the life of the kind of semi retired Rockstar to some extent in the, in the in between periods. And I read the book, by the way, sex drugs and a book that you read, that you wrote, and I got a lot of fun with it. Of course, I read it on two levels. One, just the story which is kind of dark sitcom, I guess. And on that level, very enjoyable, but I was kind of reading the bit underneath which is this the life of Roland dorable. In that period,

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 34:40

it was it wasn't quite like that. I mean, you know, it's fiction. I wouldn't say I'm own as much as Solomon Capri. I've never been dependent on my wife's income, which he was. I mean, there are elements of it. I mean, I started that. If you want to know I was It was a new year I was in the Caribbean with my late wife and had a couple of emails come in. One was from to be on the island a bellows voting committee something that I turned down the year before. And I thought right this year I'm going to say yes to everything. It's one of those years is a new year be positive. So I said yesterday I benevolence voting thing. And then I said, yes to this. ITV show Popstar to operastar asked me to go along for an initial meeting. So I got very excited because I had sung opera in my youth that all my vocal lessons were with an opera coach. And I'd had a little bit of success in local competitions. Even though that well, there were only two of us entering so you know, we were either gonna let win or lose. But I had some success. I had some good reviews. So I thought this I thought it was my destiny. You know, as it says in the book, sex, drugs and opera, I did a lot of warm ups. I went along for the initial meeting, which I thought was was okay, I'm not quite sure what they were trying to find out from me personality wise, where I was kind of compliance, compliant, Popstar, easy to direct, easy to tell what to do, or whether I was a little bit rebellious, a little bit too independent. And they, you know, I guess they also want to work out whether you actually need the money. So that some of those questions,

Keith Jopling: 36:32

how much power do they hold over you? That

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 36:35

kind of stuff? And would you make would you be good family viewing at six o'clock on a Sunday? So I did that initial meeting. Then I went in, did the audition with the opera coach, lovely lady. And they had they were filming it. So it's just you the opera coach, and a cameraman and I, I nailed it. I had all this emotion. And the tone was there. Then I went away and I was I was kind of waiting for them to get back in touch with me. And then I got very nervous. I got nervous Beyonds what is normal? I started to think, should I be doing this? Out of that nervousness I came up with I started writing fiction. So my brain was disassociating. From all the fear and panic, it was creating this fake guy. This fake Popstar could Solomon Capri, right? who desperately wanted to do the show? So the first I would say the first 21 pages are true. And then it goes into absolute fantasy and fiction. And then it kind of wrote once you have those characters, great characters. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 38:00

it's got a wonderful cast of characters in there. Actually, I sort of imagining commissioning it for TV, you know? And where would I put it? You know, in the miniseries slot on

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 38:09

Netflix, it has to be

Keith Jopling: 38:12

okay, and then, you know, coming back around to where you are now. So you know, you've been on a journey. It's the 40s. It'll be 40 years in 2023. Since the hurting with the tipping point coming out, what elements? Are you really looking forward to? What do you say, you're really enjoying right now that is, is different from the past or in the courier ups and downs? Well, it's

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 38:39

a completely different situation. I mean, obviously, we're Kurt and I both 60 years old, we're getting It's quite strange the amount of respect you get. And we've got a record company called Concorde. And there's no chain of command. Yeah, we have the meetings with them. And they say what they would like to do. And then we say what we'd like to do. And then they say, Okay, we'll do what you want to do. And it's shocking. To be able to control the narrative is amazing. So for instance, there was a discussion wherever the tipping point should be the first single there, the US radio wanted to go with something else, which I can completely understand and have night because it's really, it's an easy song to program on radio. And in the end, we said, well, we have to sell this we we have a narrative, we have a story. And it's much it will make it much easier for us to release the title track, and then go with whatever songs you want. So I'm enjoying that it's amazingly satisfying the fact that Kurt and I are doing interviews on Zoom together, and we both got something to say but they're very, very different things and he's an expert in some areas. And I'm Anna Expert and others. Yeah, so I'm enjoying that. And we've been playing a lot live an awful lot. We've got this incredible band. I mean, we had, even on the first day of rehearsal, we were playing these new songs. And I thought, my God, not only is it a really strong album, is perfect to play live. You talked about the Albert Hall, I mean, I can't wait to do those shows, again, with this new material as well, that new

Keith Jopling: 40:26

material is going to go down really well as asserting there's something in the water the minute you and I went to see, the Manic Street Preachers actually, late last year, you know, for a change, it was a real refreshing change, they played a bunch of songs six or seven from their latest album, which is wonderful. And you know, was none of this sort of going to the bar during the new songs as the crowd was singing along. And I think that's something to really look forward to for you for the fans, because I've heard the songs as I say, I think it's a great batch of songs, I'm looking forward to hearing them live. Reflecting back, I mean, in a way, you've kind of cheated the longevity game a little bit by taking the breaks.

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 41:06

Exactly. Therein lies the clue is see for longevity. You know, Joseph Campbell said, Follow your bliss. With life. There are so many, and music is just one. And if you for your own good for your own spiritual development need to do something else is just as important.

Keith Jopling: 41:27

Totally agree, you know, the side projects, the breaks? Because I guess you know, as you're saying, particularly when you came up in the 80s, during that time, when you were you had to be bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's changed a little bit. But to some extent, there's still there's still that element of the industry, right? As an artist. What else is next on the horizon for you?

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 41:48

We're doing this BBC Radio two piano room thing. Okay. Yeah. And we were asked to do it. And my initial reaction was panic. But we we have an amazing keyboard player called Doug petty, who co wrote one of the songs on the album. And he's rearranged a lot of stuff for piano, even the tipping point for piano, and strings. And it just sounds immense. And what it's given us is this kind of idea that we could take a whole bunch of material and do very, very alternative versions of them for soundtrack stuff. We might just have a little bit of fun with that. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 42:28

I mean, a songs it's never really finished is it? You know, if you've got a good song, as you say, you play it live, it's different. And I love the idea of exploring it in, you know, variety of different dresses, if you like, had that conversation with with the artist think who did that with his recent album. And of course, you know how hard it that they took the catalog on tour, orchestral and it was it was wonderful, actually, it's fantastic to see. Lovely. So it'd be great if you did something like that. I'd be there on the front row. Yeah, good luck with with all of that. Thanks so much for joining me, Roland.

Roland Orzabal, Tears For Fears: 43:04

No problem would speak to you. Good luck, and

Keith Jopling: 43:05

we'll see you soon. Take care. Thank you.